Latest / Coaches Rising / 262 - Sam Isaacson: From Disruption to Dialogue: AI & the Coaching Industry

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262 - Sam Isaacson: From Disruption to Dialogue: AI & the Coaching Industry · Coaches Rising

0:00
[UNKNOWN]: Thank you for watching!
0:19
[SPEAKER_00]: welcome back to the Coaches Rising podcast.
0:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Today I am joined again on the podcast by Sam Isaacson and Sam is a leading thinker at the intersection of coaching and technology.
0:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Today, we're going to explore a few different things.
0:33
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to look back at some of the predictions that Sam made last time he was on the podcast to see how they played out, did they come true in the timelines he thought they would do?
0:44
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to look at what is Sam's current perception and thinking around AI and how it will impact our industry.
0:53
[SPEAKER_00]: He'll make some more predictions.
0:55
[SPEAKER_00]: about what's coming down the pipeline and we'll kind of muse generally around this whole topic of AI, the emergence of AI and the impact it's going to have in our field.
1:04
[SPEAKER_00]: So Sam is the creator of a coach platform called AICoach.chat.
1:11
[SPEAKER_00]: He created the coach tech collective.
1:13
[SPEAKER_00]: He has a popular LinkedIn newsletter.
1:16
[SPEAKER_00]: and several books to his name, including the AI and digital coaches handbook.
1:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's dive in.
1:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's the podcast with San Isaacson.
1:24
[SPEAKER_00]: San, so I am really happy to be with you.
1:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, how are you doing first of all?
1:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm happy to be with you, too.
1:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've been looking forward to this all day and my day.
1:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So I've always been a bit bouncing from one thing to the other.
1:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is a high point in it.
1:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm very much looking forward to this conversation.
1:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Lovely to be back.
1:42
[SPEAKER_00]: hope we can deliver or I can deliver on this being being the high point of your day.
1:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's make it that.
1:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And what's interesting is we, you know, as we were checking in, we were, you know, just...
1:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Remembering that it was about three years ago that you first came on the podcast, and we talked about AI and coaching, and so it's kind of interesting to have you back, and tune back into the state of play, so to speak.
2:09
[SPEAKER_00]: There was a number of things that we were kind of discussing in that last conversation.
2:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, it does feel like the Rubber meets the road really in the last three years in terms of,
2:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, AI has become a thing now, isn't it?
2:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it was back then, but now it's like, more of a thing, isn't it?
2:25
[SPEAKER_00]: So, what's your sense of where we are?
2:30
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to go more deeply into how AI is impacting coaching, but what's your sense of, you know, in general, where we're at with AI?
2:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Where are you like, oh, yeah, these, it's kind of, it's, it's like seeded my expectations and where are you like, oh, it didn't quite deliver.
2:48
[SPEAKER_00]: on this yet.
2:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
2:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's interesting, isn't it?
2:54
[SPEAKER_01]: There's this idea when we start playing with a new piece of technology, it appears to be magic.
2:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And then after we've played with it for a while, it becomes boring and annoying.
3:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So you remember probably the launch of the first iPhone.
3:11
[SPEAKER_01]: where you were able to just touch the buttons with your finger.
3:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was the iPod Touch first, where you could just touch it with your finger didn't need a stylus and then you just swipe to the screen change.
3:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Then it felt like we are living in the future but when you look back at that first generation, it didn't have a camera.
3:28
[SPEAKER_01]: It didn't have anything.
3:30
[SPEAKER_01]: It's absolutely useless.
3:31
[SPEAKER_01]: It barely did anything.
3:32
[SPEAKER_01]: It could make phone calls but it just happens to be that the screen was a touch screen.
3:36
[SPEAKER_01]: and I think that's how it would feel like to sort of go back in time even just a couple of years and play with the AI that we had access to then such as EBT would have been 3.5 at the point that we were recording that and it's a 5.5 now which is significantly better.
3:54
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't feel like it's landed, though.
3:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's probably where it's easy for our heads to go.
4:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And probably mine was in that first conversation was we're in like state A.
4:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And A is here and is going to take us into state B.
4:09
[SPEAKER_01]: So when we get to state B, what's that going to be like?
4:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And how quickly is it going to be before we get to state B?
4:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that it's a lot more fluid than that.
4:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And so in the last few years, things have moved on.
4:19
[SPEAKER_01]: There are some things that have happened
4:23
[SPEAKER_01]: they're not getting better as quickly as I'd like them to.
4:27
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's some sort of movement, and so we're in a journey of evolution and change, and I think that's basically what the message is.
4:37
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not going to land anywhere, and so we need to sort of act to be flexible with what's changing around us.
4:44
[SPEAKER_01]: is not particularly answering your question, is it?
4:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there are some bits about AI that are working very well.
4:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, it is doing things in the way that it's meant to do.
4:53
[SPEAKER_01]: You can have an app in your phone where you have a quick chat with something that feels authoritative and listens to you and provides some opinions.
5:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's very helpful.
5:05
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if you've got some stuff in the fridge and you want it to make a quick recipe based on those ingredients, it will do it and it actually is fine as much quicker
5:13
[SPEAKER_01]: through SEO, optimized articles on the internet.
5:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there's other things that it is extremely disappointing at.
5:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And there are stories of organizations that have made their entire customer service team redundant, replaced it with a chapel and then rehired the team back because it just isn't doing what it's actually meant to do.
5:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you've ever, well, you will have used AI to try to generate an article
5:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Share on social media or something, and it just all feels the same.
5:42
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's nothing exciting about it.
5:44
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not as impressive as it first felt.
5:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's changing some things, and it's now present in our lives, and also it's not as exciting as it may be first appeared in some corners of it.
5:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't mean it's not influential and disruptive, and it absolutely is those things.
6:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Interesting to be observing it.
6:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Where are you most excited in your use of AI?
6:09
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to talk about AI in coaching in a moment, but maybe that is in coaching, but where are you most excited about your use of AI?
6:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there an area where you felt it's just not delivered so far?
6:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, it is extremely interesting in the world of coaching and that's where my, a lot of my thinking sort of happens in that space, but in my real life, I use it a lot in, I describe it as creating virtual colleagues.
6:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Now basically create automated work flows that incorporate generative AI into them so that I can do things through these virtual characters that I have created that compensate for my personal weaknesses, you know, work for myself and I'm not organized enough to keep a little spreadsheet of things that I'm meant to do.
7:01
[SPEAKER_01]: but machines are and so so long as I sort of spin up a little virtual colleague and make it do that stuff so I can just say I need to reply to Joel about that podcast.
7:15
[SPEAKER_01]: That will actually get done instead of just sitting in my brain somewhere in a dusty corner until I happen to open up my podcast app and see your face and think probably should drop them and he may know that's
7:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and I think that there's a lot of AI that I am seeing in generation of content on social media that just feels a bit disappointing that the volume of AI generated images that are being used in advertising or just a generate content.
7:55
[SPEAKER_01]: is a public speaking coach and his entire library of photos of himself doing really good public speeches and it's got an AI-generated photo of himself as his lead Facebook ad.
8:10
[SPEAKER_01]: not just think what you're doing, it's a really bad use, but I know just because you can do it doesn't mean you should.
8:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, it's not.
8:18
[SPEAKER_01]: We haven't landed anywhere yet and I'm not, it doesn't feel like we are heading anywhere to land with just a lot of experimenting going on.
8:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's certainly a, you know, that deluge or the beginning of the deluge of AI generated content, which, you know, ranges in quality and, you know, we kind of used last time, I think, whether, you know, what would it do to human culture, you know, if more and more of the art that we, you know, we're engaging with it's created by AI or just the content online, would it break the internet even have heard people say that,
8:58
[SPEAKER_00]: if we just explore it in terms of coaching now.
9:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, one thing.
9:05
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, you said, like, I've got these AI colleagues, you know, I think you kind of.
9:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And do you, is the danger in that that suddenly we're going to have to be managing all AI kind of colleagues, you know, instead of, so that, you know, we've created new problems for ourselves.
9:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And that, you know, we're, we're, we're now kind of our times or consumed with making sure they're doing what they're meant to be doing, tweaking them, etc.
9:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's absolutely true.
9:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And technology definitely introduces problems
9:42
[SPEAKER_01]: is that the problem with it, I think, is that when you discover, to for example, I've created this little work for where I send myself, it's not myself, I send this bot a text message to say.
9:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you know, I think I'm going to be able to sell a workshop to this person and it understands all of the context of that and knows what's important to me and so fills in a spreadsheet with some estimates of how much it would be worth and what the timeline's going to be looking like and what a good next step would be.
10:10
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really, really helpful and it's going to send me a note in a couple of weeks to say, did you follow up with?
10:15
[SPEAKER_01]: whatever it was that I was speaking to.
10:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's really helpful.
10:19
[SPEAKER_01]: However, the amount of effort that it takes to set one of those things up isn't zero.
10:23
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a huge amount, but it isn't zero and the technology is moving forward quite rapidly.
10:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's going to be a point in time.
10:31
[SPEAKER_01]: For example, this will be a significant leap.
10:33
[SPEAKER_01]: But probably within our lifetimes, or my certainly, within our lifetimes, where it would be reasonable to expect that if you wanted, then you could buy a humanoid robot to work in your home and you ask it to make your cup of tea and it goes and make sure a cup of tea or tidy zepor changes that baby's nappy or something like this.
10:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And some of those things that completely harm us and some of them you think that's...
10:56
[SPEAKER_01]: bigger questions and need answering about that.
10:58
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's a significant shift from me sitting at my laptop tapping away to try to figure out what process the data needs to go through to make something work for me.
11:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And so there's always a sense that we end up investing out time looking in the wrong area and suddenly something catches off of God.
11:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So there are other technologies around the outside.
11:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody talked about AI, particularly, until ChatGPT came along and then suddenly everybody did.
11:28
[SPEAKER_01]: But there was this little pocket of nerds that was talking about this thing called GPT3 that was really quite good.
11:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And I wrote about it because I'm a nerd.
11:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'd say that there's this thing.
11:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And then ChatGPT came along and suddenly everybody knew about this.
11:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And there are pockets around the world that are working on,
11:47
[SPEAKER_01]: smart glasses, that's going to be reasonably, reasonably soon, blockchain when we're seeing cryptocurrencies already being quite disruptive quantum computing.
11:58
[SPEAKER_01]: We're for some quite big stuff happening now and coming right down the pipe.
12:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're in computer interfaces, computers that are created through organic matter rather than, you know, silicon, and that sort of is quite a lot of technologies that are not connected directly together yet, but if you imagine a humanoid robot run on quantum computing that can communicate through a decentralized network instead of settlement there's a lot when these things connect that will really really change the way that we imagine that technology could interact with us.
12:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And at some of them, they know a really disruptive way, so I was just saying before we came on, this year was the launch of the first ever world humanoid robot games, like the Olympic games before robots.
12:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you want to watch robots doing 100 meters sprint, that now it happened in Beijing this summer.
12:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And they weren't super quick, but they did run the race.
12:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And in 2020, I wrote this book, How To Thrive As A Coaching A Digital World, and I said, as a piece of research that suggests that all of our jobs will be replaced by the year 2050 by technology, which seemed ludicrous and the silly example that I gave, which I can't really imagine this, but this is what they're saying, is that professional sports will be replaced by machines.
13:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And then 2025, it turns out, is the point at which
13:26
[SPEAKER_01]: they are now carrying out professional sports.
13:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Given the speed of technology change, do I think that professional sports could that a robot could run 100 meters faster than a human by the year 2050 or in a more entertaining way?
13:42
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a long time, isn't it?
13:44
[SPEAKER_01]: The lot that can happen
13:50
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we're living in science fiction and the science fiction is actually quite a mundane reality that just happens to have some YouTube videos and it's, you know, it's, it's, it's interesting, yeah.
14:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, um, it's, it's been like chess isn't it where, um, you know, is it Magnus Carlton was saying, I think he's the, you know, that's, I think I'm got his neck right, you know, you said, I just don't play play these chess bars because they'll just like the floor with me and.
14:17
[SPEAKER_00]: you know it's interesting because they've been around for a few years now and um well hey you know what disruption has that had to the globe I mean I think chess is absolutely booming right now if I'm not mistaken you know it's more popular than ever so does mean you wonder how what you know how yeah how will it impact our for example orientation to sport and
14:43
[SPEAKER_00]: How are you feeling about coaches and you know the I mean you know is the question that's not the right question, but I think everybody's fascinated with how will AI disrupt the field of coaching you know on the one end you've got replace coaching
15:02
[SPEAKER_00]: maybe on the other end you've got, you know, it's going to actually increase the part of potential coaches because more democratizes the field of coaching and, you know, people like Joe Hudson, who are so opposed to LinkedIn, who coaches some helpman or has coach some helpman and is close to the open AI team and as kind of said,
15:27
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doubling down on training his community of coaches or developing his own coaching skills around emotional intelligence, presence in a sense like the novelty of being in a kind of unique human-to-human connection and everything that comes with mastering that interaction.
15:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so yeah, how are you out with this relationship and the disruption of AI and the field of culture?
15:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, well, this is very interesting because I'm just a generally interesting, you know, I love coaching.
16:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm interested in AI and they're now they're meeting.
16:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, it's interesting.
16:06
[SPEAKER_01]: You point out chess because chess is something, it was in the 90s, I think, that Gary Kasperov was beaten by the computer.
16:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, but a long time ago, really, too long ago, feel too old, but yeah, I remember it happening when I was young.
16:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And that hasn't stopped people playing chess.
16:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And right, you say, actually, today, more people are playing chess than ever.
16:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's technology that has allowed more people to do it.
16:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And the way that people are playing chess, more than anything, is in and up on their firm.
16:36
[SPEAKER_01]: So this thing that
16:39
[SPEAKER_01]: stops there being any point in playing chess.
16:41
[SPEAKER_01]: What is the point when a computer can genuinely beat every single human ever?
16:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Because chess is so predictable, you know, just sits within those confines and you just guarantees is always going to beat you.
16:51
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no point in competing anymore, but it involves more people somehow.
16:55
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a fun little paradox of being human, isn't it?
16:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And it democratizes it, right?
17:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And now, like, I comes along and we've been talking about democratizing coaching for a long time.
17:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, 10 years or so, that phrase has been around substantially in the world of coaching.
17:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And what it looked like up until
17:16
[SPEAKER_01]: three chat GPT was, well, you know, we're a platform that democratizes coaching, which means that it's not just the C-suite or people who are lined up for the C-suite who get access to coaching, we go down a level maybe two.
17:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So your job title might be senior manager and you're going to get access to an executive coach just like the CEO does.
17:36
[SPEAKER_01]: But in reality, you know, if you're the cleaner, you're never going to get coach.
17:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not democratizing it really, it's just making it
17:46
[SPEAKER_01]: making it marginally cheaper, which is not the same thing, but AI does mean that if you're a cleaner, you can have access to a really good quality.
17:56
[SPEAKER_01]: hoaching like experience, you could argue what definition of coaching is and if the definition of coaching includes a relationship with a human, then AI doesn't do it, but if coaching is defined as a, what's the, I see, definition of coaching is pretty loose, you know,
18:17
[SPEAKER_01]: created conversation or something like this, that is not that's nothing like it at all, but it's you know, it's something about developing and increasing awareness.
18:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, hey, I can absolutely do that when it's prompted.
18:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and so if you're created tool that allows people to get access to that, so everybody's got access to it.
18:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So what's the point in working with any sort of human at all?
18:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, the truth happens to be with coaching and has been the case for ever.
18:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody has gone out to the market to look for a coach because they're wanting to spend as little money as possible.
18:48
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, coaches, it's a choice of an investment that is often quite substantial because you believe it's worth the investment.
18:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't see the immediate threat of all suddenly every human coach is going to lose their job because the AI's cheaper and it is cheaper a lot cheaper.
19:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But it is absolutely present.
19:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, maybe it introduces more people to the world of good quality coaching that allows you to say, oh, there's a pocket of people who would really benefit a lot from human coaching that we never particularly thought of.
19:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's worth expanding our coaching reach to reach those as well.
19:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe it changes the shape of what coaching really all to look like.
19:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So a question that I'm asking myself, a fair amount is, what is it that I'm doing differently?
19:38
[SPEAKER_01]: the genuinely makes me worth this much more than an AI, because it isn't just asking the good next question in the grow model.
19:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's not dissing the grow model.
19:49
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just in our statements.
19:50
[SPEAKER_01]: A fact, if you want taking through the grow model really strictly and to never give any advice and everything, then just tell AI to do it.
19:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And it will always do it.
19:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell me to do it.
19:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just can't help myself from thinking, I've got a piece of information that might
20:03
[SPEAKER_01]: not sure that grow is particularly helpful in this place, and so let's just play around something slightly different.
20:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think there's something about as leaning into that that makes as different, which I think is really important for us, so that we know why we're so expansive in relation to that and so limited in our scale.
20:21
[SPEAKER_01]: When obviously I are, the scale is virtually infinite.
20:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, answer her, sure.
20:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, um,
20:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel, if I share my personal relationship to this, you know, first I was like, okay, wow, this is coming in fast, you know, there's going to be an exponential uptick in terms of its quality.
20:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, you know, I was kind of concerned and worried.
20:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know, generally if I look out in the world with what some father, you know, I feel we live in extraordinary times, but also I'm concerned, you know, there's lots of things to be concerned about.
21:10
[SPEAKER_00]: But I notice with AI,
21:12
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels a bit like I've gone down the hype curve a little bit down the other side and now that maybe my naivety and you know, like everybody always says it's, you know, it's only going to improve exponentially effort like Moors law, you know, is going to be broken now and kind of go on some kind of exponential.
21:36
[SPEAKER_00]: up tick.
21:39
[SPEAKER_00]: But so far it's like, I think it's revealing to me what I felt which is that there's something about the kind of idiosyncratic novelty of human beings coming together and that we're actually not AI that we're not codified in sequences and that there's a kind of, you know,
22:05
[SPEAKER_00]: We're in perfect and we're embodied and we're emotional and I think the other thing that I'm sat with is I feel the accountability piece.
22:19
[SPEAKER_00]: uh, it's just something in that as huge.
22:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, so there's something about the, you know, the kind of mirror neuron effect of being together in presence and tapping into someone's deepest desires of what they want to create and be in the world, which, um, so far, I think AI can point to that with good questions, but there's something about a shared experience of
22:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And I forgot I'm where I was going with this a little bit, I can't remember it now, that's okay, is that beautiful to be human and to lose a thread, you know, I had a great point I was going to go with but I think my my question is, um, really like.
23:05
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, where for you is it?
23:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Does it feel like it is really beneficial to be in relationship with an AI?
23:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, that's what I was saying.
23:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I was sharing about my my relationship with AI and how I feel about it.
23:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it.
23:20
[SPEAKER_00]: It, um, an accountability.
23:23
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a great mirror to me.
23:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I love, I love like,
23:27
[SPEAKER_00]: refining my thinking with AI.
23:30
[SPEAKER_00]: There's dangers to that, you know, so, you know, and being overfed and then, you know, studies are already coming out where our thinking is becoming at atrophied through the use of AI, but I find it an amazing mirror in general, but there's something about two humans being together, and this accountability piece where,
23:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not an accountability coach, but whenever I talk with AI, I can't imagine doing like a six-month trajectory with AI coach and when I talk to it, it feels like I don't want to talk to AI for very long.
24:05
[SPEAKER_00]: You think it's been a time easy to see, easy to go to leave.
24:09
[SPEAKER_00]: So I guess wondering if there's something about being humans, the social knitting together of coming into a certain relationship with another coach that feels still a differentiating factor?
24:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
24:28
[SPEAKER_01]: It's
24:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Depending on who you listen to, you end up with this different view of sort of what AI is and what it represents.
24:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So, my social media algorithm sort of feed it to me continuously that the Godfather is a AI who saw all of this coming and now they're able to comment on it because they've been working on it for 40 years when no people didn't even realise it was an option to think in this way when it was related to technology.
24:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And what they are saying is, well, this is the best possible map that we have for the way that humans think, you know, the end is naïe with the next level of AI that we're going to experience is going to, you know, remove all of the jobs out the workforce and replace them all of this sort of thing.
25:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, if the lens that you see it through is the capability of generative AI, then that's, it's a bit of a different lens to think through rather than
25:21
[SPEAKER_01]: the person who turns it to work and gets on well with their colleagues and works hard and gets stuff done and gets the paycheck and that's it.
25:29
[SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of all it is, chat GPT or whatever is sort of there present in the mix somewhere, but it's not the same.
25:38
[SPEAKER_01]: The lockdowns happened in 2020 and people moved from in-person to video calls.
25:44
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got the people who are creating the video calls going.
25:47
[SPEAKER_01]: We have replicated fully replicated the experience of meeting with each other.
25:51
[SPEAKER_01]: You can see the micro details on each other's faces.
25:54
[SPEAKER_01]: You can see them better than you can in-person.
25:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can chat and share files so it's better than being in-person.
26:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And anyone who has met anyone else in-person goes,
26:02
[SPEAKER_01]: isn't?
26:04
[SPEAKER_01]: It's no, it's good.
26:05
[SPEAKER_01]: It's way better that I love to shake somebody's hand just sit next to him and be allowed to both look at a picture on the wall and not feel like that's rude.
26:13
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's just, it's just better.
26:16
[SPEAKER_01]: The other things that you can do in a video call, but it's not, it's definitely not the same and it's definitely not better.
26:22
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just it's just a different thing.
26:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think when you talk about accountability,
26:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, I'm a coach and I meet with a bunch of different coaching clients and for some of them, then the fact, the very facts that they can see that they're meeting me that day means that they suddenly go and do the stuff in the morning that they said they were going to do the last time that we met.
26:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Not for all of them, but for some, the fact that they know they're going to have to sit in front of me and apologize basically, well, I said I was going to do this and now I actually haven't done it.
26:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Even you know, I know it's my good.
26:57
[SPEAKER_01]: That, the fact that it's a human makes them do it.
27:02
[SPEAKER_01]: That feels, that feels like that's a really helpful thing about being a human.
27:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I reckon that for some of the people what they really want is just somebody in the gym and actually an app to do that is a more effective way of doing that for them based on their personality, so maybe it's just a question of people of different preferences, but it's definitely different.
27:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So that you say that you can have a quick interaction with AI and you want to be able to close it and that's just the end of it.
27:28
[SPEAKER_01]: The AI.
27:30
[SPEAKER_01]: use the word presence, the AI is not present, even though it pays attention to every single word that I say, even though it is able to take into account everything it ever remembers for we never forgets and all of this sort of thing.
27:43
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, it's not the same.
27:45
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't care.
27:47
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't even know I exist.
27:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I send it to a message and it just processes the message.
27:54
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't know that I am an actual human being.
27:58
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it can say that it knows it because that's the response that it is predicting is most likely to be generated.
28:04
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not conscious.
28:05
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not making decisions, but it appears like it is.
28:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's just, it's fundamentally different.
28:12
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't miss me when I'm not around.
28:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure that I really miss an end-goating
28:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, tell that to the people who are in relationships with AI.
28:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, and that's, well, as opposed to what this highlights is that the coaching experiences are a lot in the attitude of the coaching client.
28:36
[SPEAKER_01]: So, there are some of the best coaches in the world if you sit with somebody and they just are not in the mood to be coached.
28:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, I've had it.
28:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not glad to be one of the best in the world at all, but you know, I've had people turn up to a coaching session to say, I'm just got so much on my plate.
28:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm just handing their notice.
28:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got, I just can't do this session today.
28:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And I can say, well, should we, should we do it?
29:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, it's in the diary.
29:02
[SPEAKER_01]: You said it was important with scheduled it for a reason.
29:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And then like, no, I'm not here.
29:08
[SPEAKER_01]: But like, what can I do as a co-even as a human coach?
29:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't really do anything there, but somebody who's super, super hungry for it.
29:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe with an AI, then they actually get the values that they want to from it.
29:20
[SPEAKER_01]: In some cases, not all of the cases, but maybe for enough, then that's sort of enough to it, it gives the value.
29:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm concerned, I suppose, ethically, well, this is an interesting journey that I've been on.
29:32
[SPEAKER_01]: We started the company AI coach.chat, or we'd build a product in the summer of that year that we did the last podcast episode.
29:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So we talked in March or something like that, and in May June, and we started creating AI coach.chat.
29:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And we had a chat, my co-founder bars, and we had a conversation, what is it that we want to create?
29:52
[SPEAKER_01]: What do we not want to create?
29:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And we were very clear.
29:55
[SPEAKER_01]: We under no circumstances, do we want to encourage human beings to build relationships with a machine?
30:02
[SPEAKER_01]: So we were very clear.
30:04
[SPEAKER_01]: It does not have a name.
30:06
[SPEAKER_01]: The coach you're interacting with is AI coach dot chat.
30:09
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not personal.
30:11
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't have a face.
30:12
[SPEAKER_01]: You interact with an avatar that is represented by a computer chip.
30:17
[SPEAKER_01]: and people didn't enjoy it, and so they didn't use it.
30:21
[SPEAKER_01]: We also tried to replicate the human experience where in a coaching session you might spend, but wouldn't be an hour, but you definitely spend 20 minutes in a reflective conversation where you talk about stuff and you set some actions and then they ask you questions in that session.
30:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And people don't like that.
30:38
[SPEAKER_01]: They want it quick, and they want it a bit fun.
30:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And something that makes it fun is that you've given it a name.
30:46
[SPEAKER_01]: So we've sort of, we've learned some lessons and we've sort of turned it around a little bit.
30:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And so there's a bit of an encouragement for you to create a character that you'd like to interact with and the character that you've created with a fictional backstory and it tells you how this character that you've created would typically dress.
31:04
[SPEAKER_01]: then you will get a personalised email from them every so often saying that has been a couple of days since our last session but when we last spoke it was about this and this maybe at that time another session.
31:15
[SPEAKER_01]: It turns out that's just fun and so people get more value out a bit.
31:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm a little softer on it than I was before.
31:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not, um,
31:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not at all convinced that it actually does have feelings or builds a relationship, because it genuinely doesn't care.
31:33
[SPEAKER_01]: If I just switch off the server, it doesn't even exist anymore, as if it never did.
31:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's so many questions that I have to ask.
31:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I can, you know, but fun is not a bad thing, you know, maybe I'm guilty, you know, part of the coaching community is guilty of getting a bit too serious, you know, around this whole thing sometimes, you know, that being said, I feel, you know, I feel this is a vocation for me being a coach, as a deep sense of calling inside of it, and, you know, so it's both and, you know, you know,
32:14
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's so many questions I want to ask you.
32:16
[SPEAKER_00]: What, let me go here first.
32:17
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and I want to weave in what you've learned around, your AI coach.chat, what are you learning about, what it's doing well.
32:26
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, the question around,
32:31
[SPEAKER_00]: these large language models kind of making stuff up, you know, and like Jill Neffey was on the podcast and she's she's really adamant, you know, she takes a strong stance against that you
32:51
[SPEAKER_00]: that you would have to be, you know, a kind of domain expert in a particular topic, and even then, you know, you might struggle to recognize where it's bullshitting still around, you know, things that it says it knows, you know?
33:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've,
33:10
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I took it up on myself to use chatGPT regularly because I was like, okay, I need to get in, you know, I want to, and like I said, I've been, I've just stuff about it.
33:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I've really, really appreciate it, but this thing about, you know, it using my own language back to me, the pleasing thing which I know, you know, version five is, is doing less of, but it.
33:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, where are you at with that?
33:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And how that could impact, you know, a coaching conversation, yeah.
33:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello, a coaching conversation specifically, I think there's a bit of a philosophical question about what makes it's coaching, and the position that we have taken.
33:56
[SPEAKER_01]: This is something that we've not moved on right since the beginning is that the sort of coaching we want to deliver is non-directive.
34:03
[SPEAKER_01]: So the purpose of the AI coach is because it's prompted well and there's a lot of different layers that sort of go into creating an output that you like.
34:11
[SPEAKER_01]: But what it ought to do is that I say, I've got my first performance review that I'm ever delivering on Monday.
34:18
[SPEAKER_01]: How should I approach that?
34:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Our AI coach ought to respond by going,
34:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I can feel that there's something going on for you in relation to preparing for your performance review.
34:29
[SPEAKER_01]: What's important to you about getting it right this time?
34:32
[SPEAKER_01]: What's something along those lines?
34:33
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a nice question that sort of takes you into a reflective space.
34:36
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a bit of work for you.
34:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It is not going to say, start by asking them how they think they're year-end.
34:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Make sure you've prepared your points of feedback.
34:45
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to get like that.
34:47
[SPEAKER_01]: You can get that stuff off of rubbish blog article or chat GPT.
34:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And it wouldn't be bad, but it wouldn't be what we're trying to create in our coaching.
34:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And so the risk of this hallucination experience is effectively not there in non-direct, because all that's going to do is ask you a question.
35:04
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not going to generate some piece of advice for you.
35:06
[SPEAKER_01]: There is made up and this misdirectionally is not accurate.
35:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think, any time there is any new piece of technology,
35:18
[SPEAKER_01]: There are downsides that are associated with it and it's extremely difficult to predict what those downsides are until it hits the real world and they start to appear.
35:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So the example I
35:28
[SPEAKER_01]: at have always given for this is 3D printing came out as this fun way for you to make you customize chest set at home or I play miniature war games you can make your own little minis and you can put your own face on a mini and then that your mini is part of you know it's you on the battlefield sort of thing and so that's fun and so then 3D printers came out and somebody created their own done working done who
35:54
[SPEAKER_01]: The people who created the 3D printer were a little nerds who thought chess sets were called rather than somebody who thinks that they might actually be able to make a weapon which actually in hindsight is pretty obvious.
36:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Just like social media, give the like button.
36:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's, it was meant to be to make people feel good and now it doesn't seem to do that.
36:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It makes things worse at systemic level.
36:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So, in hindsight, maybe it's obvious.
36:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And the same with generative AI, it's intended to generate a response where as old school chatbot, very common for you to say, I don't know, we know what's the weather like in E-ling today?
36:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I live in E-ling, and it go, I don't understand.
36:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it's in the mood to get another sort of question.
36:38
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what you know, it's annoyingly common.
36:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's a...
36:43
[SPEAKER_01]: it's it's a downside that sort of comes with it is that somebody could use a chatGBT or some thing like that to give them a piece of information that they end up being misled by which of course in hindsight yeah it's going to do that isn't it because if it doesn't know it doesn't say I don't know it just says something that sounds plausible enough
37:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm sure there are loads of articles that have been generated by AI and being published, probably tens of thousands of times today, that are quoting specific percentages that come out of specific named reports that don't exist.
37:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And so people will end up making decisions based on data that looks so credible and there's an entire, you know, reference set, but it just isn't real.
37:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that we do need to, as a human species, that's a society by society level, we need to become much more skeptical and sort of question things in a way where it isn't, it is no longer good enough for you just to go citation needed because it's provided a citation, but the citation isn't real.
37:59
[SPEAKER_01]: But it looks weird, everything about it looks weird, it might even be an active link, you know, it's just, it's not, it's a new evolution in a level of skepticism that we've never needed, you know, the previously, it has been the case that if you're the person that says citation needed, it's because you're the swat and you probably didn't need a citation, but because you're obsessed with your.
38:21
[SPEAKER_01]: agree that you desperately need it to have one.
38:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, now it ought to be, there ought to be a level of skepticism in us that just stops us from taking anything at face value, anything at all, even photographic evidence that is presented to us, even video evidence.
38:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It's everything needs to sort of be misbelieved at first, which is a
38:46
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not particularly helpful to have this sort of cynical mindset.
38:51
[SPEAKER_01]: But just to question and be able to go right where is this actually coming from?
38:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And given everything else that's happening in the world, it feels that's a difficult thing for us to do.
39:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I guess that will be where, you know, curated trusted sources or become even more important, you know, for us to verify information.
39:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I imagine also there'll be a phase where it may be through regulation.
39:20
[SPEAKER_00]: We might get that one sorted out, but there might be a period where it's just the wild west of flood.
39:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's just like with every technology, it's the same.
39:31
[SPEAKER_01]: You can see it.
39:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I learned for a long time in the world, I sort of cyber security.
39:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was constantly, you are trying to anticipate which direction the hackers are going to go next.
39:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And some of the time that's OK. And sometimes, something awful happens.
39:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you have to radically respond to everything to stop this specific thing from happening.
39:58
[SPEAKER_01]: urgent Android update because hackers got into one particular place, you know, somebody smartphone in Slovenia got hacked in one place, so everyone now needs the update because as soon as you as a hacker if you found out that works, everybody's found it's broken.
40:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And so there's this constant, yeah, you're trying to anticipate, you're trying to respond and regulation is slower appropriately, needs to go through, you know, levels of approval and consultation
40:26
[SPEAKER_01]: but you can't ever fully guess and so things are going to go wrong and it's not good enough, I don't think, to just point at the developers and go, just stop innovating, you know, it's too risky, things are going wrong, you're being harmful and you're not thinking through the consequences because it's the world that we live in, we are humans.
40:49
[SPEAKER_01]: not being creative and acting out like creativity.
40:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And there is a level of curiosity, which as coaches were meant to have as all part of our attributes.
40:59
[SPEAKER_01]: That when you are a developer who is right at the cutting edge of January to the I or any sort of technology, that you would go, and I wonder what happens if I do this?
41:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And some of those things that is going to do are going to be unhelpful.
41:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of them are going to not work.
41:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And some of them are going to be super helpful.
41:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of them that are most helpful are going to be the most disruptive in opposite ways.
41:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that a nice example, I think about as if you're a carpenter in the Middle Ages.
41:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And you were transported forward in time 500 years taken to IKEA.
41:36
[SPEAKER_01]: At first you'd go, this is incredible.
41:39
[SPEAKER_01]: The quality of the furniture in the store is really good.
41:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Now you look at it closer and you go,
41:46
[SPEAKER_01]: something and you can pack it flat and it costs like 5% of what it would cost me to make the same thing but you can make thousands of them in the same period of time.
41:56
[SPEAKER_01]: As a carpenter, there are a couple of things that happen to that, one of it is
42:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, well there's a bunch of people that I currently sell to that don't want it now because all they want is just a functional chair, might as well get that for cheaper, but it actually turns me into this Craftman expert where if you get a custom built chair from a carpenter or that's going to have been expensive, isn't it?
42:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and I think as coaches, you know, that's a nice analogy, I think, for us that AI is coming long, doing some things, you know, some of it's good, some of it's bad, if it suddenly empowers everybody in the entire world to do something that they couldn't before, and we become this even more, to, you know, trusted rare, exotic resource, you know, maybe that's just a side effect of it.
42:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a nice kind of analogy or, you know, example of where maybe analogous on where but where it could take us, you know, that maybe there's a lot less carpenters around than there used to be, but the ones that are there, you know, I'm making bespoke furniture or there and getting paid well for it.
43:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, that scene very well, but
43:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I don't know the scene very well, but it's the sort of thing.
43:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, I'm never really, I've never even looked in the data, and so I don't know what it looks like, but I do know that there are still people working as carpenters.
43:20
[SPEAKER_01]: There's loads of friend of mine's carpenter.
43:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So there are still carpenters.
43:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe there are more.
43:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I do know that there's, you know, custom built stuff, you know, the society as a whole has become richer.
43:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And so if you're opening a museum and you'd like a nice custom piece to go in your entrance, boy, eh?
43:38
[SPEAKER_01]: That's just something that didn't exist before the industrial revolution in the same way.
43:44
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, maybe there's just extra things that emerge out of the, you know, there's the systemic change.
43:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, maybe that's a good place to kind of pivot and in the last part of our conversation talk about, I want to mix in two things, you know, in a sense of like, where do you think, you know, in the future this is going, if we look five, 10 years ahead from now.
44:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And in a sense, like, what are the opportunities for coaches to work, collaborate with AI?
44:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think that's something we haven't talked about
44:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, I've always felt like the kind of meeting once every two weeks with a week ecosystem, you know, it's like you can build in resources around that, you know, like maybe you've got a little portal your client comes into with pieces you've written, but
44:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like with AI, there's an opportunity to kind of create a more in touch for spoke experience.
44:46
[SPEAKER_00]: So where are you excited about the opportunities for collaborating with AI with coaching?
44:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And where could it go with 10 years from now if you just imagine?
45:03
[SPEAKER_01]: practical application of AI in my own practice.
45:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And I try and coaches in how to do this, like it's the important little bit of what I do, is using automation platforms alongside AI to create these virtual colleagues, one of those virtual colleagues is an AI coach, the sort of things a bit like Sanders.
45:25
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not, it's not getting coached by Sam, but if you send an email with a particular subject in the, in the subject, particular term in the subject, then it will, it will process that email and it will send your personalised response, there's pretty good.
45:43
[SPEAKER_01]: It's also pretty same, so after you've used it a couple of times, it's not going to catch you by surprise with the way that it's shaped because it's shaped in the same way every time, but it is highly personalized and it will ask you some very good questions that you're thinking in between coaching sessions.
45:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And it takes, I mean, I train people in this and by the time that we get there after a couple of weeks, it'll take 20 minutes for me to walk it through on-screen
46:13
[SPEAKER_01]: for you to go from, I have not started this to, I have fully implemented an AI coach in my coaching practice, which is not very long.
46:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And once you have understood how the bits put together, then you think, I could make that really smart.
46:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you spend half a day, then you're gonna have something which is so highly bespoke in your environment and maybe personally bespoke for a client and maybe you could charge them a premium for the fact that they've got access to this unique tool.
46:36
[SPEAKER_01]: It took you half a day.
46:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So the opportunities I think are really there that if you are curious enough and you want to experiment, you could do something like that.
46:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Be told with your own ideas and what you are access to the technology, then you can do some really good stuff.
46:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think it's worth saying that when we did the last episode, so let's say it was three years ago, which is a little bit less than that, which is interesting.
47:03
[SPEAKER_01]: At the time, I think you said, oh, you know, make a prediction when to receive the first AI coach deployed in an organization.
47:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And at that point, I think the type, yes, water three, 20, 20, 23, I think.
47:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know that there was one done then, but I do know that one started in quarter four,
47:23
[SPEAKER_01]: and they'll have been a few cents then.
47:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And some of there are some AI coaches or things that are calling themselves our coaches that are getting quite a lot of traction.
47:32
[SPEAKER_01]: There's lots of funding now around in AI coaches.
47:36
[SPEAKER_01]: But here we are, three years later, and if I look at what is my actual life and working day look like as a result of AI being present in it?
47:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm somebody who's quite stuck into this world.
47:47
[SPEAKER_01]: It looks virtually identical.
47:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I use some different products from time to time, but I still talk with people, I still do coaching, I still do everything else that I used to do, the markets, shifting, as it always has done, and so there's, you know, there's good seasons and worse seasons, but it's not.
48:06
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, I'm not sitting here with this sort of looming tidal wave of AI coming and completely,
48:12
[SPEAKER_01]: that's in the world around, it just feels like it's sort of broadly speaking, the same as it always has been, just longer, open-minded enough to play with it.
48:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's interesting, I use that word play a lot actually, which is something that comes up in my coaching sessions.
48:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I take it seriously, in part of the seriousness of it is just to have a play, you know, an experiment, see if something works, thing like this, it's been important.
48:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, what would be a, just on the back of that, I, I, I, I, I want to ask you what would be another prediction you would make, but I read an article about open AI and, um, it was interesting.
48:51
[SPEAKER_00]: There was this little bit of the bottom when I was like, that's a fascinating.
48:54
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a quote from Sam Alman, it's in the Guardian.
48:57
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm trusting it's true.
49:07
[SPEAKER_00]: They have rich person might not notice that much with this incoming tide of AI, where there could be huge advances in medical breakthroughs.
49:24
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like that's an interesting quote from some there, because that's not in line with what I've heard them say previously, which is, you know, hey,
49:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, watch out, hold on tight.
49:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Basically, this is going to be, you know, this is massive and it's going to maybe freak a bunch of people out.
49:42
[SPEAKER_00]: So, that, I just kind of, I remember I saved the quote.
49:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And, um, so anyway, well, I think that's, back to what I said before, you know, when everything that you see
49:56
[SPEAKER_01]: It is through the lens of this is what generates a BI is capable of doing.
49:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Then it looks like it's capable of, for example, fully reproducing what happens in a customer service conversation.
50:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Because at a functional level, it does all of the same things.
50:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I've listened to you and I understood the request.
50:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I direct you in the right direction.
50:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I process your refund.
50:19
[SPEAKER_01]: All of those things, you know, it's fully automated
50:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So, well, let's make everybody redundant in that theory.
50:25
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't actually work.
50:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though it functionally is able to do the same things, there's a lot that's happening, which we just don't state.
50:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Hoaching is a brilliant example of this.
50:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Look at the coaching competencies that any of the professional bodies come out with.
50:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, a spend quarter of an hour thinking about it and you'll think of something that's happening that they've not stated, and you don't really need to state it, but is happening.
50:48
[SPEAKER_01]: that is really happening.
50:49
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you talk about mirror neurons.
50:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know any coaching competency framework that talks about mirror neurons.
50:55
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't need to say it, but it's happening and it makes difference.
51:00
[SPEAKER_01]: probably, I can't define it, I can't define it, some researchers, and I'm not able to.
51:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's trying to pick that thing out.
51:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I expect that two or three years ago when he saw chatGBT as suddenly shot off the scale.
51:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, imagine what's possible, of course, everything's going to change.
51:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And then here we are, three years later, and it's...
51:20
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not really changed that much, it's now sort of present, but there are some massive breakthroughs that's happening, it's having, particularly in the world of research, you know, the story, the headline I see every so often is, researchers have been trying to solve this maths problem for the last 250 years and chat GBT did it in 10 minutes.
51:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And yes, because they've learned all of the way have so-called how to position it.
51:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you really switch on generative AI with something where you're able to get the parameters working right and you just process it through the machine, then it can do some really, really smart stuff.
51:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And health is a great example of where
52:01
[SPEAKER_01]: that, you know, the world completely changes once you take smallpox out for the average person and just completely changes.
52:09
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a real difference that it can make.
52:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And it comes with the whole bunch of questions that go alongside it.
52:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're still wrestling with the I suppose, but get watching.
52:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, what would be a prediction you'd make for another, you know, two and a half, three years from now?
52:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I know you're making them in a way, you're saying, like, look, you know, we might not actually
52:28
[SPEAKER_00]: see on our day-to-day life that much change, but, you know, what prediction might you make for
52:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the experience of having access to an AI coach in the workplace, and I use that term extremely loosely.
52:42
[SPEAKER_01]: There are some things that are calling themselves AI coaches where they themselves, when they introduce it, explain is not actually a coach.
52:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So very broadly speaking, I think it would be absolutely expected that a lot of people in a few years' time would be expected to have access to something that they might call an AI coach or think of one with as good or bad as sort beside the point.
53:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that they will.
53:04
[SPEAKER_01]: have access to something like that.
53:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think that the next technology I might have said this last time, so I've been saying it forever, the smart glasses.
53:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I now have a smart glasses, and I didn't until this year, even though I knew they existed.
53:18
[SPEAKER_01]: But I've got a pair of smart glasses, I wear glasses normally, and so the ability to have a pair of glasses that also acts as Bluetooth
53:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I had to pay an extra £20 to get the prescription, but you know, if you don't mind wearing glasses, I've got a pair of glasses that connects to the internet, has got AI built in an camera, acts like Bluetooth headphones.
53:42
[SPEAKER_01]: If I can see people without needing to even get my phone at my pocket and have a conversation with them, that seems pretty cool.
53:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that that's going to happen in the next few years.
53:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's see.
53:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, Paul.
53:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, nice.
53:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, can you tell us more about some just people listening where you train coaches in collaboration with AI, and you have AI, doc, AI coach, doc chat, sorry.
54:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you say more about where we can find out more?
54:12
[SPEAKER_01]: about your work.
54:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
54:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm on LinkedIn.
54:16
[SPEAKER_01]: That's probably where I am most often, so yeah, finally I'm LinkedIn.
54:20
[SPEAKER_01]: There's only a couple of some Isaacs and the only one of me is a coach and so and if you find me then that is me.
54:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm running a training program that I call the Coach Tech Academy and so that's training and how to make these virtual colleagues that I've mentioned and I run a community called the Coach Tech Collective where we meet every month
54:42
[SPEAKER_01]: technology.
54:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I'm particularly excited about at the moment is just pulling the plans together for it.
54:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I ran quite a big conference earlier in the year, the digital and AI coaches conference.
54:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And we have that running again, this coming February 12th and 13th and February 20th, 26th.
54:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And Joel, you're going to be there.
54:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I'm going to be a conversation on that conference.
55:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it'll be great to have as many people there as possible.
55:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, amazing.
55:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey Sam, thank you so much, yeah.
55:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, thank you.
55:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Wonderful to be with you, thank you.
55:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Here we are, we're at the end of the podcast.
55:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Just have a heads up again.
55:16
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're not on our mailing list and you want to stay in the loop about other things we create, then head to coachesrising.com.
55:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Put your name in the sign-up box there.
55:25
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll also find some of our other offerings online trainings for coaches there.
55:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And just want to end by wishing you well, and I'll see you again next time.