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The Hard Money Lender Built to Say Yes · Brick by Brick - Wealth Building Conversations

• Loren Wernette: So some would say moving from cannabis dispensary to private money lending is a bit of a left turn, right? they're bipolar opposites on the what you would think of as the conservat, you know, the conservative versus liberal political spectrum. So what caused what was the reason for that move over to private money lending? and and did it have something to do with the inability to get financing in the cannabis industry? Ryan Hermansky: Nice, nice tie in, Lauren. It it very much did. So we we also own and operate pure edibles. so edibles are something we manufacture in Phoenix. So we had a the need for a building, you know, being that our retail location was in Flagstaff, we kind of vastly outgrew that space and the edible business was doing exceptionally well as well. So we needed we needed basically an operation in Phoenix, which led us to purchasing a building. Loren Wernette: Welcome to another episode of Brick by Brick. Today I have with us Ryan Hermansky. Ryan is a fund manager out of the great state of Arizona. He has a very interesting background having managed cannabis companies, worked for or been the I think the lead of the dispensary organization in Arizona, and now has a debt fund that is raising capital for loans and some other things in that market over there. So, Ryan. Thanks for joining us today. Ryan Hermansky: Absolutely. Thanks so much for having me, Lauren. Appreciate it. Loren Wernette: Yep. So before we get too far into this, I wanna just run through a real quick disclosure here that I also have a debt fund, you have a debt fund. we are in different states, probably some different products as well. and the stuff that we're talking about is not investment advice. It is not something, you know, this is education slash entertainment purposes. And if you're interested at all in anything that Ryan says, you should reach out to him or talk to your advisor yourself. So Got that out of the way, we can kind of move on. So Ryan again, thank you for being on the show. Ryan is the president of Private Money Funding. and he also has three partners which help him run that business. Ryan, can you give us a just a brief overview of what private money funding.com is? Ryan Hermansky: Sure. Absolutely. thanks again for having me on today and looking forward to conversation. but to kind of break this down a a little bit, there's really two sides of our of our business. private money funding is primarily we lend out money in commercial real estate. So we're, you know, to give an example, you have a five million dollar shopping center down the street that's for sale. you don't qualify for traditional financing through a bank, which is most people, regardless of credit and background, it's it is a far different story than. than actually, you know, buying a home, which you you probably easily qualify for. but banks generally don't like to lend, especially on the smaller side of commercial real estate. and more importantly, they're exceptionally slow. so what what happens is there there kind of creates a a a big gap in the market for what banks are comfortable lending on, want to lend on, and can get done in a reasonable time frame. And we kind of live in that gap. So that g that gap where B of A and Chase and your your large banks just don't really give you the time of day. like that five million dollar shopping center, for example, we kind of fill that gap by closing on properties like that quickly. we can generally fund as fast as an appraiser can get an appraisal done. And we lend the gap on, you know, from the cash you need to what that property costs. So we generally like to see, you know, 40 to 50% down coming from the borrower and then we chip in the rest. and then that's ultimately how, you know, we're protecting and growing the company is through, you know, first lien position you know, commercial real estate. So that's traditionally what we are is we're a lender and we're, you know, kind of fall into that hard money lending term. so we we lend money when when banks say no, you know, we look for ways to try to get a deal done and and say yes. so that's the big grasp of what we do. and then we also manage a fund like you alluded to on the on the intro. so to help really our our whole company operate, you know, we bring investors on. and then we we Pay investors nine percent on their money. They can come and go as they please. So it's a liquid fund. we do work with incredited investors, and then we just send a payment to your account each month, or you can let it compound and grow, depending on, you know, what your needs are at that particular time. That's kind of the the overview. There's obviously a lot more details on both sides, but that's, you know, at a high level what private money funding does and and you know, what I spend my days doing. Loren Wernette: Got it. So so set the stage for me. I think your bio said that you've had, you know, several decades of residential and commercial financing experience. Can you give me an idea of kind of where you were working and and what you were doing during that time? Ryan Hermansky: Sure. yeah, it's it's been several different several different ventures, you know. But my my first job out of undergrad, I was a a a business major at Arizona State at a a folks in marketing and and finance. so with that I was looking and and pretty open to what I would do out of college. You know, that that business degree kind of prepares you for, you know, just to just gets you a a little bit of education on going any different direction. and I was attracted by a bank called Waterfield Financial. So I I had some people I knew there. it went through the whole interview process at a bunch of different companies, and this bank kept looking the most attractive. so worked there for a while and then the the mortgage boom really took off. So this is 2002 time frame, and that's when Arizona still is, but it was it it kind of flipped the switch and was just growing like crazy. everybody you knew was a real estate agent or doing mortgages, it turned out, a a few years later. but I I really learned the ins and outs of residential finance. so I actually spent about five years working for Waterfuel Financial, which at the time was the largest privately held bank in the country. they got bought out. So I gotta go see what that process looks like on, you know, being bought out by a larger company and and transitioning, you know, through companies and all the challenges that come with that. but that was that was my introduction to to the finance world. that was kind of my my early twenties. and then kind of had some different gaps. I actually went into medical device sales. I worked for Striker Spine for about seven, eight years. so I was in the operating room each day. It was an exceptionally different job. I'd stand next to orthopedic or neurosurgeons and just answer questions about implant sizes and instrumentation that's actually used in in either spine or brain surgery. so that was a a fascinating time in my life. and then, you know, that was kind of working for corporate America still. And you know, through that process, it it was an incredible job. You know, watching spine and brain surgeries is obviously amazing. So you know, seeing what these guys can do in the in the patients, you know, and how they impact lives, all that was incredible. But it w you know, from a corporate America standpoint, it made me realize that you know, I wanted to do something for myself. ultimately went back to school, got an MBA, and then have been self-employed ever since. So the past fourteen years or so, twelve twelve to fourteen years been been self employed at a few different companies. but that's that was, you know, kind of the stepping stones to to get me to where we are today. Loren Wernette: So bank, operating room, cannabis. Tell me about that that jump. Ryan Hermansky: Yep. So I mentioned the interest in being self-employed. So when I was in grad school, so this is now two thousand ten, there was a voter past initiative in Arizona to allow medical marijuana. Arizona, if you rewind, it it's cannabis is very widespread now. It's it's generally in most states in some form. If you rewind to two thousand ten, It's it seems like forever ago. It feels like multiple decades ago. but the landscape of marijuana has changed drastically. So, you know, Arizona's always kind of been the wild, wild west on stuff as a state. We don't like to be told what to do. so you know, it it it does have a libertarian kind of mindset for on a lot of voter initiatives. so it it did end up passing. I had nothing to do with it at the time, wasn't paying attention to it. was actually with my my current partners now, two of them, my brother Brandon and and Doug Daly. And we saw, you know, we're kind of paying attention to the ticker and and it showed that it barely passed. But it it's it was a voter pass initiative. So it just needs, you know, fifty point zero one percent to pass. And it got a little bit better than that, but not much. and then, you know, the state was very unhappy with that. We had Sheriff Joe Arpayo, which is one of the few sheriffs that I think people would recognize throughout the country. He he did all kinds of crazy stuff out here. you know, we had Tent City. We we you know, made all his inmates wear like pink boxers. So he just it was just kind of always some sort of show that he was putting on. but was quite quite concerning on what that would look like to operate a marijuana business under, you know, Sheriff Joe for Maricopa County, which is where Phoenix, Gottsdale, PV, all you know, all the the cities you've heard of are are in. we also had county attorney Montgomery, who is exceptionally conservative person. So it was just very interesting on what was gonna happen because it was just completely unknown. you know, so we we paid attention to it, ultimately decided that we'd like to look into this and this could be a really good business to own. and we ended up going for it. So my my brother Brandon, my partner Doug Daly, who's an he was a practicing attorney at the time, and I'm still in grad school and working at Stryker at this point. we decided to apply for a license. the license was a lottery system. we actually raised money to pay for the licensed applications. Each application was about five grand a piece. And then you had to have a business plan. You had to have a you know, building you could use, which was one of the hardest parts. So if you didn't own a building, which we did not, you had to approach a landlord and and say, you know, hey, we'd like to use your building for a dispensary. not sure if you heard of, you know, the the law that just passed, but there's gonna be a lottery. And for me to enter the lottery, I'd like to use your building. And then if we pass, we'd love to open a dispensary. And you know, the the looks you would get from people was just insane, right? Like people had no idea what we were talking about. Nobody was prepared to allow a dispensary to really operate in their building. and then you know the C C and R's and HOAs and just all the stuff you're dealing with, like nobody's prepared for this. It was just brand new. so it was it was a really uphill battle. we ended up getting one in Flagstaff, Arizona, which is hence the the pine trees in my in my background. so Flagstaff's about two hours north of Phoenix. It's a college town, 25 degree weather difference from from Phoenix. So if it's a hundred in Phoenix, you know, you're love and life engulfing at 75 up in Ibn Flag, and it's it's just you know, special place. So that's where we ended up getting our license and opening. And we opened in 2013. So it's Noble Herb dispensary. it's in Flagstaff. It does very well. we had it so long, we've able, you know, kind of so I I I we do still own it and and operate it, but it's been been there so long and such a stable place with an amazing team in place. It allows me to kind of step out and do something else, which is you know what I focus on mostly is the is the bank now. So private money funding is was Basically one step at a time got us here, but the dispensary was a big a big part of that. It kinda allowed us to have the financial ability and and time to start a whole nother company. and that's where where private money funding really started. Loren Wernette: So some would say moving from cannabis dispensary to private money lending is a bit of a left turn, right? they're bipolar opposites on the what you would think of as the conservat, you know, the conservative versus liberal political spectrum. So what caused what was the reason for that move over to private money lending? and and did it have something to do with the inability to get financing in the cannabis industry? Ryan Hermansky: Nice, nice tie in, Lauren. It it very much did. So we we also own and operate pure edibles. so edibles are something we manufacture in Phoenix. So we had a the need for a building, you know, being that our retail location was in Flagstaff, we kind of vastly outgrew that space and the edible business was doing exceptionally well as well. So we needed we needed basically an operation in Phoenix, which led us to purchasing a building. So we were looking for looking for a large building that we could manufacture and then distribute edibles throughout the state of Arizona. On only Arizona, and that's that's based off state law. So we started searching for a building. At that point, banking was even more difficult than it is now. Like I I have normal checking, I have since 2016. you know, so we we operate very much like a normal business, except I can't take credit cards. And commercial financing is tricky. You know, circle back to my my intro. you know, commercial financing with the banks exceptionally difficult. You know, you put anything involving marijuana on there, you're like an immediate no. And that's that's still pretty prevalent. That's still pretty much how most most banks operate, especially all the all the big ones you would you would name. so we found ourselves in need of basically a hard money loan. and that's where Tim Ernst, our our current CEO, came in. So I was introduced to Tim. And we we were in need of capital. he met me and in toured our building and the building's amazing. so he you know very easily and quickly decided he this is be something he would lend on. so the b the building we bought was it was three point eight million. We put down eight hundred thousand and he lent us the other three million. We've been making him and his partner just kind of interest only payments. But you know, we we we owned and operated a farm as well. So we borrowed some money from Tim to really bring our farm to another level to reinvest in our farm. And then we came back to him to buy this building. So it's like two separate transactions over about a year and a half, two years. and ultimately what happened is I'm sitting there, I'm writing big checks to Tim every single month. You know, they're $40,000 checks between, you know, the the two loans we had with him. And at some point I just kind of realized I feel like I'm on the wrong side of the table and I'd rather rather be receiving these checks than writing these monster checks every single month. so as The marijuana business, Noble Herb, really kind of came to its own and just the team, you know, we put in place was just doing an exceptional job. It allowed us to kind of venture out and start looking at some other opportunities. And, you know, there certainly some risk in the marijuana business. you know, the federal uncertainty and and you know, that stuff is is real and certainly on our mind. it made it very easy to go the complete opposite way and do something more on the conservative side. So that made me approach Tim Ernst about five years ago. kind of explain what I just just told him or just told you guys. And and that led to, you know, the start of private money funding. So Tim Tim has owned and operated in the companies in the lending space and has done everything in commercial real estate you can think of from you know rezoning and and commercial development and owning properties, flipping properties, managing properties. He's he's done it all. you know he's in his seventies or so. He was kind of looking to slow down a little bit. And you know, bringing us on, he's basically teaching us the business and has over the last several years. and is just, you know, at some point we'll kind of phase out and remain an owner of the company. But right now he's involved as ever, doing an amazing job, teaching us the ins and outs of it. And all we really do is we're we're we implemented a model that he came up with, or I shouldn't even say he came up with. He's been doing for about 40 years. so he's had tremendous success, you know, with the model that we that we use. and it's very simple. You know, it's just and that's how we operate on the lending side and then on the investment side. so there's obviously a ton of people, including yourself, out there in this space operating businesses very similar to this. we we definitely err on the on the conservative side and are far more conservative than than most of the our your counterparts out here in in Arizona. and that's just kind of where we feel comfortable and and have you know the other businesses to to lean on as well. So it allows us to be very com very conservative in this in this space. Loren Wernette: So are you going back to your roots and lending in the cannabis space or are you strictly in non cannabis commercial properties and and do you do any residential? Ryan Hermansky: Well, so we're we're open to everything. So we we look at it each and every deal individually. so we you know, we don't have a very rigid format that you have to fit as far as, you know, term and length and all that. Like we've done deals, you know, literally for for six weeks was our was our shortest one ever. and then we have many deals on our books that are are a five year term. So like we're we're happy to look at each individual opportunity and decide, you know, our comfort level on it. you know, our investors safe with this and with this lending on on this property. you know, and is this ultimately if if something went wrong, is this a property that we'd be fine being part of our portfolio if we had to you know, foreclose and and take that property back, which fortunately we never have to do that. you know, and and it things have been operating very smoothly and we've never had never had to foreclose, never had a late payment, which is great. So it's allowed us to you know, to continue just run that same program over and over again. as far as the marijuana space, like we we have lent on one building that it was a ground up build for a retail location. so we we don't target the marijuana world, but we're not certainly not opposed to it. There's not a ton of like I feel like that ship sailed slightly where most of people have farms and they've reinvested their farms and you know have retail locations. If right before we got into this, that was we my phone we could have primarily just focused on that space and and done great. that it just like the sh it's kind of moved on a little bit and and everybody's already put a bunch of money into it. so you don't really see too many people buying new buildings or developing their farm, et cetera. there's just not a ton of need in that space. So we're we're open to it, not opposed to it, but there our phones aren't ringing really for it very much at all. Loren Wernette: Got it. Makes a lot of sense. so you you mentioned Tim, he's your CEO, he kind of came in, and then you're you yourself for president, and then your brother's involved, and then you have one other person. Can you kind of give me an idea on what each of you does, kind of what the roles are of of the four of you? And then, you know, was it was Tim the first one to put money in into the fund for this business? Ryan Hermansky: So we we all contributed money at first and then until until we had a line of credit, you know, we basically used Tim Ernst, our our acting CEO as a line of credit. So he would put money in to help us fund loans. We bring investors on and we'd pay him off. we we all ended up replacing him with a line of credit. So Tim's a a big he's by far our largest investor, so he's got millions in in with us. as an investor. So he's on both sides of the business there. but you know, we operate off a line of credit now as well. So we will we can close a a loan or close a deal with our line of credit. Then we bring on new investors, we pay off the line of credit and we just kind of rinse, wash, repeat that that same model. So it allows us to always be putting investor funds towards towards the line of credit versus you know sitting on their funds and trying to find a deal and then paying them interest or the opposite where you're funding a deal and then Scrambling to try to find investors. So the the line of credit gives us flexibility, which is great. Doug with his legal background, he does an amazing job at all the stuff I'm I'm just terrible at. So as far as all the documents we need, on the borrower side and on the investor side, he does an incredible job just keeping keeping that stuff straight, keeping us compliant. So he's kind of head of compliance for us. Like we are registered with the state of Arizona, and the SEC. So, you know, staying in in you know. Bait make making sure we're doing everything properly and legally in the correct way and all that. He keeps an eye on all that stuff. we have audits we have to go through every year with the state of Arizona. we just started that back up. They they take so long, it feels like you finish it and almost start it again. but there there's a lot to be compliant about and a lot of legal stuff. So Doug, with his background, is just perfect fit for that. So he he definitely concentrates and runs that side of the business. my brother Brandon he concentrates on on bringing on new investors. So he's kind of, you know, he's a he's an owner, but kind of more on the sales side. so he's he's kind of out there spreading the word about private money funding and and trying to bring on you know just new investors on really a weekly basis. and then myself is more like operations. So Tim's kind of our big picture guy. He's got, you know, decades of experience when we have a loan opportunity, we run it by him. We'll go visit the property and talk through the pros and cons of that that property. he's a wealth of knowledge and you know, a Roll of Dex that's exceptionally impressive with you know, current investors, future investors, you know, real estate agents, appraisers, you know, just anything you could think of, zoning attorneys, just all all the good stuff you need on, you know, kind of a weekly or monthly basis. he kind of helps out on on just anything there. and then I handle the day to day. So it's, you know, the operations, you know, investor relations, you know, I I brought on a lot of the investors, so I kind of manage them as well. overseeing our borrowers. So just the the kind of the face of the company, the interaction with, you know, the borrowers and investors. and then just kind of overseeing the the current pipeline and you know, and portfolio is where I spend my time. Loren Wernette: Got it. Got it. Ryan Hermansky: So that's just the four of us. So that you know the dispensary world, we got up to we had a hundred and thirty employees kind of at our peak. and then Loren Wernette: Mm-hmm. Ryan Hermansky: this side this business, we have zero employees. it's just the four equal owners. everybody kind of, you know, pulls their own weight. So it it works out really nice. Loren Wernette: And you said the business has been going for five years. Is that how old the fund in is as well? Ryan Hermansky: Yes. So the the current fund we're on now is is newer. We closed our first fund out, started a a new fund. The only difference was it allowed us to advertise. so you know the the the how you qualify with the SEC and and how you're registered and everything is determines whether you can advertise or not. so we we also can only work with accredited investors now. So that's like a net worth of over a million or annual, you know, being able to make a contribution of two hundred thousand. So we did make our our minimum investment two hundred thousand on the investor side, which is is it's it's a much smoother experience first trying to prove somebody's accredited and getting their CPA or attorney involved. And that's not only a slow process, it's pretty annoying for most investors. So we can skip over that entire thing by, you know, the minimum investment being two hundred thousand. and that allows me to come on, you know, podcasts like this and talk about what we're doing instead of the the previous regulations and stuff we had to do. So this the the new fund is those are the two main differences and what we're currently in. And that new fund's about eighteen months old or so right now. Loren Wernette: Got it. Yeah. And for anybody listening, if you ever hear somebody talk about a five six B or a five six C, you know, B is what you had before where you wanna you would take in credit investors, but you couldn't advertise at all. And Ryan Hermansky: Right. Loren Wernette: then we chose a C as well for the ability to advertise. You have the caveat of you have to have it credit investors and verify them. but when we looked at the B and this is an aside when we looked at the Ryan Hermansky: Yeah, we can't. Loren Wernette: B. There were so many disclosures that you had to give to your accredited investors if you brought any unaccredited investors in that it pretty much negated the benefit of having that that B status and it took away the option of of advertising. and so that that's that's the same route that we went was with that five six C. So Ryan Hermansky: We we decided to do it twice. So we sin since we did it the f white way, lawyers got a lot more money and had to do it over again, basically. They w they went again. Loren Wernette: Lawyers always make sure they get their money, they're they're cut. That's right. So, so walk me through the asset side. So I know we said commercial real estate. Are you guys strictly doing commercial real estate? And like what states are you in? What's your like minimum, maximum loan size, terms, that type of thing for these loans? Ryan Hermansky: So our our portfolio is is pretty broad. So we we'll take a look at any deal and and just determine whether it's something that you know we'd be comfortable lending on. And I I told you before we use an exceptionally pessimistic viewpoint on the real estate, as in, you know, the guy's never gonna make a payment. He's gonna miss his first payment, it's gonna be a nightmare and we have to foreclose. Like what do we do with the property? Can we sell it? Do we keep it? so that we look at everything like that. You know, it's like we'll we'll see deals where You know, the loan to value is exceptionally low. You know, the person has money. seems like a safe investment, but the property is is just something you would never want. Like I I a recent one we turned down was it was basically a a rundown school. So, you know, the the property was allegedly worth, you know, about six million. They only needed a million. it was paid off. They wanted to pull some money out to redevelop part of it. And you know, so I when you're looking at that, the the loan to value is is really good. So that's one of the first boxes we we check and it looks great. But ultimately, you know, when you're looking at this, it was really hard to determine what else you would do with the property. being that was an old run down school, it looked like it needed to be an a newer updated school. And we have no interest in dealing with any of that. It wasn't something that we could sell easily or or refurbish or wanted to own. So that was ultimately a deal we we passed on, even though you know the financial parameters looked pretty solid. so big big picture. we we look at properties and try to figure out a way to make it work if we really like the property. we have done land like raw land. we have one one, there's only one borough we work with currently. We're certainly open to others, but he's brought us a lot of raw land and he's one of the most successful people I've ever met. he's exceptional at identifying great potential land, buying it and then rezoning it, or bringing utilities to it, which you know, all those things skyrocket the value. So It's a slow process. It's it's tedious. You know, you're you're dealing with zoning attorneys and and whether you're rezoning it or bringing utilities, you know, the engineering work, all that. You know, there's a lot of money that gets spent to bring a property up to the new code or or you know, pro get in a position where you can sell it easily, more easily. certainly increase the value. so we we will look at land where your traditional banks, they won't touch raw land like that. so there there's a big hole in the market for that and you know something we'll pay attention to. We we don't want our fund to be just land, but there's there's certainly land we'll we'll look at. we have several, you know, corporate like big warehouses, Deer Valley area. It's a a great area, suburb of Phoenix. And it's you know, there's a lot of big industrial areas right there with these just beautiful, amazing, very well-built warehouses that could be anything. That's a building that regardless of the current tenant, you're always going to be able to get a new tenant in there. so we find those very, very attractive. we we do dabble in residential a little bit if it's for commercial purposes. what I mean by that is like if it's you know, a duplex or fourplex or a rental property, we we can lend on that. Our our license through the state of Arizona has some residential rules that we're we are limited by. I can't do like a cash out refinance on somebody's primary residence. So like that's that's just not, you know, not something we can do, nor really is it advantageous for a borrower. You know, you'd be far better off going to your local bank and and getting a home equity line of credit than coming to us anyway. you know, but we also know there's, you know, there there's qualification challenges, especially with self employed people where, you know, they're in they're in a bind and can't do what I just said. but they're they're Loren Wernette: Sure. Ryan Hermansky: far better off doing that if if they can. so we avoid the the home equity line of credit situation. Like that's not what we do. We're not fixing flips. there's plenty of lenders out there that are, you know, lending money for people to flip fix and flip residential properties. that's not us. We're we're much more in the commercial space. you know, we want that warehouse, that shopping center. our our average deal is, you know, probably about three million, three and a half million. we'll lend as low as like half a million and as high as five million. that's kind of our where we're our our comfort zone and and where we can bring on investors fast enough to pay off the line of credit. Loren Wernette: Got it. It makes a lot of sense. you know, I I think I get a lot of requests for through our funnel of loans for people's houses and stuff. And it Ryan Hermansky: Yeah. Loren Wernette: never ceases to amaze me why you would go to a hard money lender when you could go to a bank to get a to get a loan. Ryan Hermansky: I mean yeah. Home ediquity alliance, you're you're probably in the sixes. You know, interest rate is probably prime plus a point or two. you know, we're we're generally lending it at about twelve percent. So yeah, you're you're far better off at your at your B of A and Chase, et cetera, if you can. Loren Wernette: Yeah. I I think you also made another good point of looking at what the exit strategy is or worst case scenario. Ryan Hermansky: Yeah. Loren Wernette: borrowers don't always want to think about like, well, if I don't pay my loan, what's gonna happen to this property, right? But as a lender, you have to think about that. You have to assume that they're gonna they're gonna foreclose and then you're gonna have to deal do with it. And you know, for that reason, like there's only two real asset classes that we don't lend on, and that is churches, because I never want to have to foreclose on a church. And and gas stations, because there's just a lot of EPA things that could go wrong if you had to foreclose on a gas station. Plus, I don't want to have to manage a gas station operations in order to get it to a sale, right? but Ryan Hermansky: Good points. Loren Wernette: a hundred percent get your point about we'll look at anything, you know. and and I think that's how most hard money lenders are, unless their box is so tight that we're just fix and flip lenders, right? Ryan Hermansky: Which which there are and I I know a lot of those guys they get their money back in three to six months and they're just constantly moving it and living off points and doing great. That's just not our not our ballgame. Loren Wernette: Yeah, d different business model, entirely different Ryan Hermansky: Yep, very much. Loren Wernette: business model, right? So, all great. So, so let's talk a little bit about the fund. I know you have the 506C fund we're talking about here. You know, I perused your website a little bit. one of the things that you mentioned there is no fees. and so can you talk to me about that? When you say no fees, I assume you're meaning no fees on the investor side, not no fees on the borrower side. Ryan Hermansky: Yep. So so private moneyfunding.com, it only talks about the investor side of our business. So we we have the two the two parts of our business. We have the fund, which we've kind of briefly touched on, and that's where we bring investors on. you know, we pay them nine percent annually on their investment and it compounds monthly. So they have a choice of either getting a interest distribution directly deposited into their account at the beginning of the month, every month. Or they can let it compound and grow. so at nine percent, if you had that money just it's just just under eight years, that money over doubles in an eight year time period if you just leave it alone and let it compound and grow. so it it it it's really fun watching those investments. And you know, we you get a monthly statement and people get to see that investment grow. so that side of it's great. And that's the side where we have no fees. It's a liquid fund. You can come and go as you please. So when you're comparing our nine percent, you know, it'd be comparing it to your your current wealth manager, if he's got a point or two of of fees, you know, it's more like trying to make ten ten and a half or eleven is what we're generally competing against. So we're we're nine percent with no fees at all. You can come and go as you please. and that's it's just truly your choice of do you want to receive a a payment each month or let it compound and grow. So that's that's the fun side. and that that's Just the simplest part of our business and what we're ultimately looking to protect everybody from and why we're so conservative is we want to make sure that we can always make our payments to our investors, keep their money safe. You know, that's it's mostly our friends and family. So like I know everybody in our fund personally. you know, these are are are either friends, close friends, close family, or close friends of their. so like that, you know, we we take every deal we do very seriously because we know we're protecting not only our own money, but our friends and family money. and then when we changed the fund, that allowed us to to start getting out there, start advertising a little bit, to start coming on some podcasts and and chatting with people. you know, we we have found that there's you know, ev everybody wants to invest and own real estate. and you know, I as an investor myself and a and an owner of multiple types of real estate, I I I think it's great, but there's a lot that goes to it. So you know, you're if you're a building owner, you know, you know what the problems are of of AC units and you know, tenants and managing tenants and managing leases, et cetera. And then on the residential side, you know, whether you're you're leasing out a residential home, you're still dealing with the AC and the water heater and those phone calls. so there's there's all those challenges once you are the building owner. what we like to do is is kind of market ourselves in a way where we let you have that commercial real estate part of your portfolio where you, you know, it's a very conservative part of your portfolio, but we kind of take all the BS away. You know, you're not managing anything. You're not l worrying about a lease or a parking lot or an AC unit or a water heater, you're just giving that distribution in your account every single month. So it it it's it's a nice conservative part of your portfolio is is how we like to talk to people about it and checks that real estate box without you know necessarily needing to be a landlord. Loren Wernette: Got it. So talk to me about so that's how the LP, the limited partners, make money. So you have nine percent, no fees. How is the GP, where's the GP making their money on this fund? Ryan Hermansky: So we are, you know, we're paying our investors that nine percent I just chatted about. And then we're we're generally lending at twelve percent or higher. Most of our deals in our portfolio are at twelve percent. We don't have anything below twelve percent. So we have that three percent margin and we kind of see that on the the monthly payments that come in, you know, everybody paying their paying their borrowing amount, their, their bill on the first of the month. you know, we're we're getting that three percent margin there. and then we we do charge fees to our borrowers. So there's no fees to the investors, but our borrowers when they take out a new loan, we're j we're generally gonna charge like two points or so depending on the deal. Every deal's a little bit different, but our kind of our average deal would be twelve percent interest and two points. So those those points are the fees that come to the bank for doing the transaction. Loren Wernette: Got it. Makes makes total sense. so one other piece I was looking through when and I think we mentioned it here is the no lockup, right? You can the investors can pull their their funds out, which know is really appealing to a lot of investors. from a fund manager standpoint, though, like I I see a lot of risk associated with that. So can you talk me through how you guys think about that? Like no lockups, because you know. Things are going great and then all of a sudden three or four investors, which I mean I think you only have a coup you know, a number of investors, see thirty percent of your money decides it wants to be redeemed all of a sudden. How do you handle that risk? Especially when you when you have a basically a a liquid fund with tied to an illiquid asset. Ryan Hermansky: Sure. So what that's one of the big things that separates us from other hard money lenders that bring on investment capital. generally what you'll see the the more traditional model is a hard money lender will attach you to a property. So if you invest with him, they say, All right, you're part of property A. As long as property A makes their payments for the next two to three years, whatever that term is, you get your payment every single month. now if They stopped making their payment, you're now part of a foreclosure and you're and you know, dealing with lawyers and all that extra nonsense and headache that you know you're hoping you never have to deal with. so that that's that's kind of the what the model that separates us from from others. you know, we're we allow you to be liquid by having the line of credit and then our own personal assets if if needed. So and in we've been we started a company about five years ago. We brought our first investment capital on about four years ago on a Average year, we probably have four investors. So it's maybe one a quarter, pull money out. our average investor is about two hundred thousand. so you know, if if somebody needs two hundred thousand up to you know three million, they're gonna have their money the next day. We'd we'd use our line of credit to to pay them back and then we'd go out and search for new investment capital. the largest investor we've had pull out was 1.6 million. He had his money within a a a couple days. normally it's the same day or next day. so when we say advertise liquid and the liquidity option, it's because we we have a line of credit to to lean on. Our our goal is to basically have the line of credit at zero at the beginning of every month. So we we we do close a deal or two a month, you know that that balance goes up. Say we've we've lent out two or three million off the line, then we bring on two or three million in in new investor capital pay the line off. So that line allows flexibility. and then as a backup, we we have our own, you know, personal money. If if necessary, we would we would invest and buy out an investor if needed. That's never been needed, but that's kind of like plan B basically. is we have, you know, our that's how just another backup option we have. but plan A, which is all we've needed, is we we use the line of credit. The line of credit's actually going currently from five million to ten million. and that just gives us more more liquidity access and you know allows for an investor that's in for three or four million to go out at any time. our our lending parameters won't change with the new line of credit, but it gives us even more more peace of mind that we could get a large investor out at any at any time. Loren Wernette: Got it. That makes a lot of sense. And so does that replace or in addition to a reserve amount to cover anything like that? and and what do you keep your reserve capital at approximately? Ryan Hermansky: So when when the line when the line hits ten, we'll have we'll keep five million as like a reserve. and then we we would be able to lend up to five million and then we would pay that off. So like that that's just the the parameters we'll be we'll be working off of. and you know they there's like Tim Ernst, our pri our our CEO, he's our l by far our largest investor, but below that, there's only probably three or four investors that are seven figures. So it would take all of them leaving at the same time, you know, to even add up to five million. so it, you know, the average investor of the two, five hundred, seven hundred and fifty K, they're getting their money back the next day. We're we're always gonna have that five million dollars of liquidity to to to send money back. And we could really, with the the low loan to values of our of the properties we do lend on, we're certainly on the conservative side and we can weather some major storms. So for you know, the sky to be falling and, you know, real estate market to crash and all their investors want their money out at the same time. Like we we can handle a a pretty major wave and and be just fine. Loren Wernette: Got it. Yeah, I would I would think you'd want to make sure you've got plenty of capital to handle that wave if it ever comes because it's not like you're selling houses, right? That you can get off your books in sixty days. A commercial property just in general is gonna take longer unless you're f really fire sailing it at the forty percent LTV. Yeah, yeah. Ryan Hermansky: You you gotta figure like six months. Yeah. Like six months is is like a pretty normal transaction. Fire sales probably four months still though. Loren Wernette: Right. Yeah, make makes a lot of sense. So, and I guess same question about I I know you said that you haven't had any loans go south or, you know, even missed payments, which has been pretty credible for the amount of time five years. but have you had loans that you've had any issues with and how have you managed that? Have there been workouts or workarounds to deal with that? And what if something does go sideways, you know, whose capital gets impacted first? Ryan Hermansky: So we haven't had any any late payments or anybody foreclosed on. So Tim has been doing this for decades. the low loan to value that we operate off of. So at at worst case scenario, there's 40% equity in every property. so I I kind of alluded to this a second ago, but you know, we could have a major backup in the economy, a major change, you know, something really negative happen and properties across the board, across the country or across where we've lent on drop twenty, thirty percent. Like we're we're still have our head above water. We're still in good shape. That borrower still has equity in that property. So there's no incentive for that guy to walk away. he's got 10, 20, 30 plus percent equity still in there, even though the market took a a major downturn. and so that that that really protects the investors and protects the portfolio. that's ultimately what what allows us to to really weather a storm if it happens. that being said, you know, even Tim has been doing this for decades, never actually Foreclosed. He he said he's started the process a couple of times. Like he's got attorneys involved, but there was always so much equity the person could figure it out. So even if they went dark or had had trouble with the business they were operating out of that building, I mean, that's your most likely scenario is they're operating a business out of that building. The business is really struggling. and then they need to sell the building to, you know, pay off Tim in the in the in the past or us now. fortunately, in in the years we've been doing this as private money funding. That just hasn't happened yet. you know, it's it it's it's just part of the equation. Like we expect it to happen at some point. it doesn't mean you did a bad deal or you lent on a bad property. it's you know, life happens, things get in the way, people get sick or move or businesses fail. Like all all that's gonna happen at some point to to some borrow we've lent on. and that's where we lean on the equity and and how much equity we have in the property. And like quite frankly, that's why we're a conservative lender and that's why we operate that way is you know, we're trying to protect our own money, our investor capital. our friends and family, et cetera. but that that's what allows us to, you know, just kind of be comfortable with with the market and know we can handle a a downturn. Loren Wernette: Yeah, I I I think that is very, very prudent considering like one of the really nice things about commercial real estate is that the amount of NOI really dictates what the valuation of the property is, right? But the negative side of that is if there is some large global event and all of a sudden business go out of sale, let's say there's three units in there and all those businesses go out, all of a sudden that NOI plummets and then the valuation plummets as well. And so It's not like a house that even if it if it's in good shape, it's gonna retain its value, even if the homeowner can't pay their bills anymore, right? If your NOA drops, your valuation drops because the cap rate is gonna stay about the same for the general area. Ryan Hermansky: Hundred percent. It's a it's a very good point. It definitely makes evaluating properties, you know, challenging. and that's we we ultimately what we what the the position we've seen a a good amount of is, you know, that guy buys the shopping center, it's underperforming. he gets rid of the bad tenants, you know, gets a good deal on the property because the parking lot's rough, it needs paint, he's got a a couple of bad tenants in there. He fixes a parking lot, he gets it painted, gets it cleaned up, replaces it with better tenants now that the building's more attractive. And then they refinance us off. So, you know, the the big big box banks, they're they're gonna turn that first deal down because of every all those negatives. But then you fast forward two, three years from now, the tenants are great, the rents are up, the the buildings looks clean and great and beautiful now. Now that's something more attractive to the banks where they can refinance us off, get a better interest rate, you know, cut three, four points of of interest off per month, then it's kind of a win for everybody. so that that's a a perfect example of deal we do quite commonly. And and that's a a really good example of why, you know, the big banks will say no and and will say yes and then you can hopefully a few months later or a few years later, get them to take another look at it and and and ultimately refinance those off. Loren Wernette: It's a perfect example of why hard money exists, right? It's a you know, ri Ryan Hermansky: Yep, yep. It's needed, no question. Loren Wernette: r ri Yeah, it it's a banks want no risk and they want to give you a low interest rate. Ryan Hermansky: Yeah. Loren Wernette: We're willing to take more risk and we want a higher interest rate. That that's that's the short version, right? Ryan Hermansky: I mean that that's the entrepreneurial spirit of of you know anybody entering the commercial space and buying a building, you know, they look at that shopping center I just described as they see what it could be and a bank looks at it and they're like, I don't want nothing to do with that. That's terrible. We don't we don't want the risk. and you know, even if they do, it's gonna take six months to close. Where the entrepreneur is like, Man, I could have had this whole thing fixed up, all the tenants replaced by then, new parking lot, new paint in six months, and be looking to refinance. and you guys are, you know, can't even close the loan in that time. So fort fortunately, the banks operating like this, you know, historically and now creates a a space for you and I to operate in. There's no question there's a need for it. Like we turn down A plus deals on a weekly basis. You know, if we had unlimited money, we we would be closing a deal every single week. you know, they're the loans we're turning down sometimes they're they're just as good as loans we do. It's just a timing, you know, like you have to have the the investor capital you know, to do the deals and and obviously it's You look at it like an average investor is probably in the five to seven hundred and fifty thousand range, but an average deal is three million. So you're bringing on, you know, four, five, six investors for every deal you close. So the the investor side's the most fun. You know, I I enjoyed the the conversation with the investors. And it's you know, people always just like, it's how do you just how do you pay nine percent every month? How how does that work? And they get so excited about it because it's just so much better than the bonds at four percent in the high interest savings account and they're just able to move the kind of conservative stuff of their portfolio to to us. You know, we've had 401ks, IRAs, even pensions get moved to us. There's a process you have to go through through an intermediary that handles like the governmental paperwork type stuff on that. But that's been exciting, you know, watching that side of the of the business really grow. And you know what with shocking is people, you have your 401k and your IRA, you you leave your company, it's just it still operates or you move it to Fidelity. And it sits there and you look, if if you most people just don't look and then when they finally do look, they're getting like four or four and a half percent. and you know, it's like we can turn that into nine. So it's it's pretty exciting for people. Loren Wernette: Yeah, it's a great transition to exactly where I wanted to go next because I knew Ryan Hermansky: Nice. Loren Wernette: you had a bunch of retirement dollars in your fund. you know, I guess having dealt with that a lot, give me an idea of what some of the things are often thought of wrong when people are either considering moving their money into your fund from an IRA account or Ryan Hermansky: Mm-hmm. Loren Wernette: what they do wrong when they try to do that. Ryan Hermansky: So the without question, the the biggest thing is people just don't know you can. I'm I mean I'm I'm a little embarrassed. I I I think pre five years ago, I don't know that I knew you could do this. I I or at least didn't put any brain power and think about it. But you know, it's an individual retirement accounts. You're it's an IRA. You you are ultimately in control of it. So whether you just turn that over to Vantage or or or I'm sorry, turn it over to Fidelity or or Schwab or somebody, you know, that's kind of your choice. or I mean that ultimately is your choice. You're you're choosing who to manage it. but generally those they're they're managed, they're not managed. They're just stuck in part some big mutual fund and they just kind of sit there and they're very safe and conservative because it's it's retirement. and you're you're just getting that four or four and a half, you know, if you're lucky, five percent. So what using a third party, like an intermediary, like a company like Vantage, for example, they happen to be local in the valley. so we we use them. I'm sure there's dozens of companies nationwide that. That can help you with this. but for a shockingly cheap amount, I mean it's it's like the hundreds of dollar range a year. you can basically take it all or a big portion of your IRA or 401k or pension, like we have done pensions as well, and direct it to wherever you want to direct it. So you know there's there's things like you you could do inside your portfolio, like actually with with properties, buying properties, selling properties. an easier way to do it would be to direct it to somebody like Lauren or myself. so what we can do with it is you know, you you're you come in, you're just a normal investor. So it's you're you have an investment account, you can't pull money from it. So it's not liquid because it's your retirement money. So you have the same retirement parameters that you would with your IRA. Like it's still an IRA, it's just under us. It's being managed by us and you're getting the nine percent every single month. advantage with a company like that, what they do is they handle the the paperwork. So if you're with Fidelity, for example, they're gonna handle the withdraw from Fidelity. It's going to go to Vantage. And then Vantage is going to ultimately wire it to us. And then there's there's paperwork on both sides that they deal with all the stuff. So you know, I I don't have anything to do with it. We just end up receiving the final wire and then we communicate with you on a monthly basis of your your balance and send you a statement. so you do need an intermediary and to kind of help that transition. But once you transition, it's it's done. There's there's some sort of you know couple hundred dollar fee a year to to keep working with the intermediary and and have them actually, you know, just prop basically process the paperwork properly, give you your your necessary paperwork for your CPA, et cetera. but yeah, you do you do need some help in there. It's not a hard process. It's just kind of slow. It definitely is gonna take three weeks or so. Loren Wernette: it I think that really depends on the custodian. so we use several different custod we don't use our investors use several different custodian, they've about five different ones. And some you're some you're right. It's like Ryan Hermansky: great. Yeah. Loren Wernette: two or three weeks and like pulling teeth. And Ryan Hermansky: Yeah. Loren Wernette: then there's a couple and if everybody wants to message me directly, I'll tell you which ones those are. Ryan Hermansky: Yeah. Loren Wernette: that I mean, they're quick. Like the one that I use personally, I can get money moved in like two days. so Ryan Hermansky: So it's it's the Schwab and Fidelity that seems slow. So it's not it's not the company in the middle. It's but you request your money and I've seen take like three weeks for people to for Schwab to wire the money to, you know, to the intermediary. So that's what I find shockingly slow. Loren Wernette: It's exactly happened. We had an investor move in like two hundred and sixty thousand dollars to us a couple of weeks ago. And the he had to move money from Schwab into his Inspire account and then Inspire to us. And it took, yeah, two and a half weeks. Actually, the money got lost in their account system Ryan Hermansky: no. Loren Wernette: somewhere. Like the wire went out, they couldn't find it. It was a whole mess. Ryan Hermansky: yeah. Loren Wernette: and then but everything worked out, right? But it took time. And so When I start working with an investor and they say we're gonna use a retirement account, I just p figure that into how long it's gonna take to get things close. It's not a Ryan Hermansky: Absolutely. Loren Wernette: big deal. My goal is to make it as easy as possible for the investor. And so I try to handle everything I can, but some of those things are just totally out of your control. Ryan Hermansky: Yeah, that's that's a perfect example of one that's we have no control over. Loren Wernette: So who should not be in your fund? Ryan Hermansky: well you know it it it's an investment, right? But I that's the same answer for anybody investing in anything. Like this is a this is an investment. I I would describe us as an exceptionally conservative investment. we're not a bank account, so that you know, that's probably a good answer for your question. So it is a liquid fund. You know, if you invest, you you bring 200k to us and invest 200k with us, the the FCC has a it, you know. perfect gray area on like this is not like a black and white answer. But when you say you're a a credit investor and you invest o over two hundred thousand and you and you come to us and you know that's that's a a very easy process. If they saw you pull fifty grand out month one and now you only have 150,000 in there, like that's gonna raise red flags. Now why I why I said it's gray is if you bring two hundred thousand to us and you fast forward A few more arbitrary months on there, and let's say it's five or six months and you pull 50 grand out. you know, the the that's probably gonna be fine. That's not a problem at all. And what why why I use those kind of arbitrary time frames is is to be accredited that you know, you put in the 200k investment, that checks all the boxes and it just makes things very easy. What they don't want you to do is try to get around that, meaning you borrow. You had a hundred and fifty, you borrowed fifty from your mom and you told your mom you'd pay her back in a month. So that that's the kind of stuff where it's like, look, that's that's not the type of investment we're doing. We're a liquid fund. If you need your money back, you could have the entire two hundred K back. And that's ultimately what we'd have to do. So if you come to me and you're and you're in for two hundred grand, and then six weeks later you're like, I need to pull out fifty, we'd have to return the whole two hundred thousand. and that's just for we we don't want what it what I just explained to have the SEC look like it's it's happening. So in that scenario, we would just return your entire investment plus interest. once you get to that five or six mark, you know, I think it's it's it's reasonable to say that, you know, you could pull any amount out you want and keep your account open. so that that'd be an example to somebody where, you know, you could still come and you can still join the fund. But if that weird scenario happened and you had to pull some money out, you're probably gonna get your entire investment returned, which is fine. You know, come back later and come back when you can and and you know, that's that's how we're built. But we're not a checking account where You know, you're you're gonna pull fifty bucks out or or five grand out here and there. It's it's not really designed for that. you know, that being said, it's it's liquid. If you need chunks out, you need money out, go for it. But it's just don't treat it like a debit card. It's probably a a good way, good rule of thumb there. but you know, it anybody that is looking for a place to park money conservatively, I think it makes sense for them. you you do have to be incredited. So I think that'd be another thing. you know, you it it's just just making sure this is an investment you can handle. but that two hundred K threshold pretty much does that as well. Like generally anybody that can come up with a two hundred K investment, it's it's not the last two hundred K they have, it's part of their portfolio and that's ideal. Loren Wernette: Yeah, I think those of you paying attention out there, the two hundred thousand rule actually is relatively new. I think it went on the books like last year or so. so if you were saying, Well, I thought you just had to have an accredited letter, yes, you do, but that they changed the rule and put this new loophole in to make it a little bit easier to get money into accredited funds. So Ryan Hermansky: Yeah. You don't have to go bug an attorney or your CPA to try to get that letter now and which you know would generally cost you money or time. It's it's no CPA's favorite thing to do is is write letters. So we we found that previously just as as a slow process and this just really sped things up and allowed us to just deal with the investor and get things done run way, way, quick. Loren Wernette: Sure, makes sense. so a lot of my listeners, they're operators, right? They they spend their day like you and I doing operations, making sure their business is running. Give them your pitch on why they should consider moving some of their operating time frame or t money into actually passive investing. What are the benefits? Ryan Hermansky: Sure. Well, so one of the biggest things we see is you know, people are are putting money away for taxes every single month. it's just sitting there and and, you know, they call them high yield savings accounts or or you know, you're getting a a couple percent, whatever you're getting. you know, though that's money that can be parked with us and then pulled out at tax time. We have a we have actually a lot of people do that. Like our biggest withdrawal month is is April. So people pull money out you know, to pay taxes. We see it every year. So that's it's it's a great operational strategy. you know, the just basically parking excess cash and when you need it, you know, let us know and we can wire you that money the next day. it kind of touches back to the the previous comments. It's not necessarily a checking account, but it's a great place to store money. If you need a a few withdrawals a year, it's like it's just not a problem at all. and we we can definitely operate that way really nicely. So it's it's nice getting some getting some cash for your getting some interest basically off your backup cash, the cash you're stashing or sitting on or or need to pay taxes or whatever. we we do see people do that with success and I think it works great. Loren Wernette: Hmm. Got it. All right. so forget you have a fund for a second. If you were sitting down with someone and giving them pointers or advice on how to select a fund to put their hard earned money into, what are some of the things that they should look for when making those investment decisions? Remember everybody, this is not investment advice. This is just entertainment educational purposes. Ryan Hermansky: Sure. I mean the you're gonna wanna ask the same questions to to pretty much everybody. you know, what what's the return? I think that's where I'm gonna start my question with. is it is it compounding annually versus compounding monthly? you know, does it fluctuate? what what I what I see a lot is there's a range where they'll quote you a range of six to nine percent or you know, eight to eleven percent. You know, they're not giving you a a number and that number's bait gonna fluctuate based off the profability of the company, which means you have no control over that and you can't forecast that. You don't know what to expect. I'd I'd also like to know, you know, am I getting a payment monthly? Am I getting it quarterly, annually? you'll see all all the above. I would definitely want to know if if I'm talking about a fund that's in the commercial side, you know, am I part of the entire portfolio? Am I protected by the entire portfolio, which is how we do it, or am I linked to one individual property? You know, if you're linked to a specific property, then you're gonna you're gonna go up and down with that property. As long as they're paying on time, you get paid on time. if they stop paying, you're now part of a foreclosure. the way we do it is you're part of a the being part of the fund, you're backed by the entire portfolio's value. So we've lent out forty two million dollars in in commercial real estate that's been that's backed by 130 plus million in value. So we have appraisals proving value of 130 plus million on the 42 million we've lent out. So our whole fund sits at a loan to value at about 35%. so I'd I'd want to know how leveraged they are. you know, you you will see a lot of lenders, they'll they'll lend it 90%. So you people only put in 10% down. you know, there's not a lot of room in there when you have realtor commissions and title fees and rehab costs to to try to flip a property. It doesn't take much of a downturn. you know, to eat up that 10%. and it's generally eaten up by by interest and you know, the amount you're paying to that bank on a monthly basis. It can go, it can go quick. So if they're on the more, you know, less con less conservative side and and a little bit more risky, you'd want to understand the kind of deal parameters that they lend on. Who are you lending on? What kind of properties are you lending on? and just make sure it's it's not just one type of thing. I I'd I'd want to see some diversification, just like your your portfolio. You want to see diversification in that. You know, I think when you're talking to a lender, you want to see diversification in what they're lending on as well. you know, the just because commercial buildings are down doesn't mean land values are down and and vice versa. So, you know, those are two different markets that there there's obviously some similarities there, but there's you know, they they operate it independently for the most part. I think those are all great, great things to chat about and and talk through. And you know, liquidity, that'd be the last one. Like what's my lockup period? What's my fees? you know, so li liquidity, fees, and you know, actually interest rate, I think are the three things most people should be chatting about and leading leading the conversation with and then filtering the other stuff that's more kind of the the background and and and parameters of the company and what they lend on or what that fund's all about. Loren Wernette: Great advice. Great advice. So all right, Ryan. I we've had a really good conversation. I wanna give you a little bit of time here. If there's anything we haven't touched on that you want to touch on. and also if anybody wants to reach out and get a hold of you and talk about your fund or talk about you or I don't know, cannabis or what it was like being an operating Ryan Hermansky: Yeah. Loren Wernette: room. how can they get a hold of Ryan Hermansky: Sure. Yeah. I'm just giving you a a personal cell phone, personal email. you can reach out to me. So any any investor questions or borrower questions, you know, I'm I'm your contact. You would just deal with me personally. So my cell phone is 602-284-488. And then email is Ryan at PMFAZ.com. So that's Ryan, and then it's PMF like private money funding, AZ like the state.com. And then, you know, just I think I mentioned the website, private moneyfunding.com. Perfect place to start. You know, it's we designed it. It's not for the borrowers, it's for the investors. So it goes on, it just you get to see who we all are, what we do. We there's some examples of of where we've lent, some of the states we've lent in, and some of the buildings we have in our portfolio. and so that answers probably 99% of your questions. and then I'm here to answer and chat through anything else as well. Loren Wernette: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for your time, Ryan. It's been a pleasure talking to you. I hope the listeners all got a lot out of the conversation. and I hope if they have any questions that they reach out to you. and for all the listeners, if you got value out of this, please make sure you share it with someone else who might get value out of it. That's how we can grow the podcast. They're sharing it with like minded people. Rising Tide lifts all ships. So thank you again, Ryan, and to everybody else. We'll see you again next week. Ryan Hermansky: Thank you, Lauren. Enjoyed it.