Latest / The Permission Slip / S2 | E6 Wendy Perkins Shoef, ADHD Microdosing and Neuro-Pleasure Coach and More
Transcript
- S2 E6 - Wendy Perkins Schoef === Matt Kosterman: Hi, welcome back to the permission slip. This is Matt and I'm here today with Wendy Perkins. She's coming to us from mildly sunny la warmer than Chicago, where we're headed for minus 11 and this lovely January day. And, uh, Wendy is an ADHD microdosing and neuro pleasure coach. I get all that Wendy: Yeah, he did. Matt Kosterman: great. And she, her specialty and area of concentration is working with solo entrepreneurs. Matt Kosterman: So thanks for being here today, Wendy. Super excited to chat. Wendy: Thank you for having me. I'm excited for the conversation. Matt Kosterman: Yeah, so, um, so microdosing has been a hot thing, uh, these days. So we'll get into that. And for those who are. May not be aware. It's mi microdosing is generally refers to psychedelic medicines like LSD and psilocybin, which is in mushrooms. And I think also some people are working with mescaline. Is this true? Matt Kosterman: I know I microdosed to mescaline for a little while. Those are sort of the three biggies Wendy: Yes. There's, there's a few more that are working their way in now, but Matt Kosterman: there are. Okay. Because I, yeah, I know MDMA, it doesn't really work that way, Wendy: no. Matt Kosterman: is my understanding. Um, so how did you get into, tell us a little bit about your origin story. Your, uh, Californian almost by birth. Wendy: Yeah. Um, origin story is, when was I Matt Kosterman: Like, like, I mean, yeah, like how do you get, how do you become a, you know, a neuro pleasure coach? Like what was your, what was your back, what was your upbringing? You said a little bit Catholic. Wendy: yeah, so I, as, as we said, we had a little conversation off, uh, Mike, was raised Catholic and um, lost religion a while ago, but, uh. My family was Catholic. Wendy: I went to a Lutheran school because my mom couldn't afford, and also the time to get to The Catholic school so she could work. I went to a Lutheran school. Wendy: So I had religious studies Monday through Friday, Catholic school on Saturday because I had to make sure that the religion, you know, studies that I got at the Lutheran school were actually, I can learn what's actually the right way, quote Matt Kosterman: right way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so you're single mother. Wendy: yeah, single mom. So, um, which that in itself, in being Catholic was issue because in her, she even struggled with it 'cause they were divorced, But she never remarried because in her eyes she still had to be married to my, my father. Um, and so it was her choice to be separated. So like that, not to say that. It wasn't Matt Kosterman: But they were, Wendy: but it was still a very big issue with her religiously. Like it was a, she struggled with that part. Matt Kosterman: Told death to us apart and all. Wendy: yeah, the whole, uh, yeah, all. Wendy: of that, Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Right. Wendy: part. Um, my dad not really a part of my life, so I, we moved to California when I was about 18 months old, because that's actually when my mom separated from my father and my grandparents lived here. And so my mom wanted to be closer to her mom to be able to help out and all the things that a single mom, especially in the seventies, um, needed. Matt Kosterman: Right, right. Wendy: Um, so, uh, my, my father was mentally insane and, schizophrenic, bipolar, although he had many different diagnoses because as they. Kept shifting everything. So who, who actually knows what the issues were. Wendy: But there was definitely some mania, of Matt Kosterman: Okay. Wendy: in there. So, um, whether that's schizophrenic or bipolar, I'm not sure. Uh, but Matt Kosterman: no real, no relationship with him? He wasn't, he wasn't. Wendy: he was, it was just kind of in and out of my Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Wendy: For a few years. So I graduated high school when I was 17, went to college, been on my own since then. Um, so, you know, moved around different places. So when I graduated high school, I, I grew up in la so we moved here to LA when my mom left, my dad, and then, um, one aunt and uncle in a northern area. And then of, of here north of la, not north, northern California. And then over to Maryland, which is where I graduated high school from, went to college, jumped around 'cause I have a DHD and couldn't make the decision on what I wanna do. Little funny story about the A DHD part, not making decision. It took a, a class in college called Choosing a Major. They had a, choosing a major class, the end of it, the instructor was like, I, I don't know what to say for you. Like, you've taken every test, you're all over the place. There's like, there's literally like, I don't know, he is like, Matt Kosterman: I dunno. Wendy: he is like, Matt Kosterman: Take one, throw it. Dark, dark board. Wendy: but I don't know what to tell you because Matt Kosterman: my God. Wendy: I was very, I, I was accommodating and did all the tests and did all the things, but we could not come up with a solution. but you know, it's all good. And then, uh, moved out here, a life. Matt Kosterman: Did you end up, what did you end up majoring? Did you get a degree? I. Wendy: I dropped outta school 'cause I kind of wanted to go into science, like I really wanted to go into research. But back in that time they didn't really separate And being a medical doctor, it kind of all went together. I'm sure some schools had it separated, but the majority of schools didn't. Wendy: And it kind of was a, a path that you had to take to get into research. And so had a problems puncturing skin, so I dropped out after my anatomy and physiology class where, um, just didn't work out very well when I had to work Matt Kosterman: Like, like putting a sur, putting a syringe or cutting into a cadaver. Wendy: So I was Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Wasn't here. Wendy: open, but it was just, couldn't do anything with the skin. Matt Kosterman: Interesting. Wendy: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: I could see that. Yeah. That would be a little Wendy: so, Matt Kosterman: weird. Wendy: you know, that kind of put a damper on my thing. So I dropped outta school for a while and then, um. I did end up going back to school and so I, I have a double major in marketing and finance. So that's, Matt Kosterman: Oh, Wendy: that's Matt Kosterman: on the other end of the spectrum, Wendy: because I figured I was gonna own a business someday, and I'm, I, I Matt Kosterman: I. Wendy: you could hire human resources, Like that's, that's a pretty good thing. Accountants are very regulated, so, you know, as long as they're accredited, you know, you're gonna be fine in your accounting department, sales, the numbers are there, either you're there or you're not. Wendy: And Matt Kosterman: Right, right. Wendy: of a thing. And when I was looking at it, I was like, well, financing and marketing, like if those are not, if you don't know those, you're really gonna struggle in business. So that's why I chose those. Matt Kosterman: Oh, interesting. And then did you, what did, did you go to work for a a, a company or did you go on your own right away? Wendy: I jumped around because I could decide what I wanted, what even company, but I had like different things. So I worked for, for a while, I worked for a real estate company and I was like, there, I had every position in the company. Helped them open up a loan company, an escrow company. And basically by the time I left there, we just called my title Special projects manager because I basically would take on the big projects and, you know, figure out how the roles worked, write all the, the descriptions and the manuals and Matt Kosterman: Standard operating, standard operating procedures and all that. Wendy: I would write all the Matt Kosterman: All the S Yeah. Wendy: um, and then I got hired for a couple other real estate companies to do the same thing basically for them. And then I ended up working for a biometric company I was, when I left there, I was the sales manager for us and dis uh, for distribution for US and Canada. So. Matt Kosterman: Okay. Wendy: He jumped around like, you know, this Matt Kosterman: Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, it's, I think it's interesting how the, I mean, I. Probably arguably suffer from a touch, A DHD. And it's interesting that interested in all the things you can write, the SOPs, but when it comes to following, I'm like the hell with that. Like that's for the other guy. I don't, I can't, can't be bothered to focus that long. Wendy: Exactly, yeah. Very much so. Um, and then along the way I was building websites. Um, so I started building, it was actually in a finance, no, a marketing science. No. the science cla It was a business science class. I can't remember what the name of it is right now. The word is leaving my mind management science. Wendy: It was a management science class, and I, for an extra credit thing, I built a. Access database with custom code. since I was at the time working at the real estate office, so that's kind of why I ended up there. 'cause it was a good job while I was in college. Um, 'cause the hours, they're open seven days a week. Matt Kosterman: yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Wendy: lots of, lots of flexibility there. And so, um, I, it was a group project and we did it and instead of just using fake data, I was like, can I just build this for the real estate company that I work for and make my job easier? Because I, I, I saw some things that would make my life easier with it. And so, and then I kept going with it. And so I kind of just always been really tech on the other side. And I've been building websites. I did that with my kids. So I eventually got married. Have, I have two boys, a a 16-year-old and a 13-year-old. Although my thirteen's about to be 14 next month. Um. So building websites was a great way to have kids because I didn't really have to deal with like too much. Wendy: I just had to Matt Kosterman: Right. Wendy: do things on the backend, you know? Matt Kosterman: email emailing back and forth, a couple meetings here and there, and then just go build stuff. Wendy: Exactly. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Yeah. Wendy: it was, so I just did that for years and then, um, separated with my, from my ex in 2017, decided this is a long, you said origin story, like, sorry, A DHD brain Matt Kosterman: Uh, that's all right. That's it. I mean, I think it's in, you know, people, I think people's lives are interesting. It's not, it's never linear. I think, Wendy: no. Matt Kosterman: you know, I, I once thought it was supposed to be, and then come to realize that it's not. Wendy: When I separated from my ex, I wanted my own, uh, sexual journey discover things. 'cause I realized I wasn't getting younger, and so I had fantasies about being in a threesome. So I figured out how to get myself a threesome and then up in the whole sex party world of stuff. And Matt Kosterman: Oh, tantric world and, Wendy: not necessarily tantra, but like sex Matt Kosterman: okay. Wendy: um, which they're different, right? Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Yeah. Wendy: and along the way, when I was discovering thi like discovering things about my body, I would. Ask people about, you know, do you know this? And also at the time, part of that exploration was I wanted to learn more about BDSM. And I met up with this guy that I had met through one of the online modalities, and he'd been in BDSM world for years and years and years and we're still friends. Wendy: So just as a side note, we're still friends. Anyways, we had a scene together, that's what it's called. And Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Wendy: in the scene, I kind of thought to myself. I, I think if something went wrong, this could be dangerous. Right? And afterwards, after the scene was over, I asked him about it and he's like, yeah, I completely forgot to go over something with you. I realized that in that moment, it doesn't matter how long someone's been doing something, it doesn't mean they actually are an expert. Like, if you've been doing something wrong your whole life, it doesn't mean you're doing it right just because you've been doing it for 17 years. Wrong, right? So I decided to get a job at a dungeon so I can learn from people who Matt Kosterman: there's jobs. Okay. Wendy: Um, Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Wendy: I, I did that while I started building a coaching career. And so I had access to tons of people to talk about all kinds of things related to sex, bsm, all of the things. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Wendy: um. So I actually started out as an orgasm coach, hence the neuro Matt Kosterman: Okay. Wendy: And then Matt Kosterman: Uh. Wendy: I'll start and end in the nervous system. And also when I said my 13-year-old who's gonna be 14, he was born with a brain injury. So I've learned more than I ever wanted to about the brain and nervous system and be developmental biology and behavior and all of, Matt Kosterman: Okay. Okay. Wendy: that I thought I was gonna research actually, um, Matt Kosterman: Uh, Wendy: I now got forced to do it. As an adult. Matt Kosterman: you got to do it without having, without having to cut into anybody. Wendy: Yeah, exactly. Um, and then, uh, COVID hit realized it was hard to support people through these like relational issues when my kids are in the other room screaming. So I decided to kind of pivot more and focus on the business again because I ha I still had all of it, but I still, it's just, I am always bringing it back to nervous system regulation and focusing on pleasure, even in business. Wendy: Like, you know, we'll talk business stuff, but then it back because it's, yeah. Matt Kosterman: it back. Bring it right. Wendy: You know? Um, so that's kind of, kind of my origin story, you know, there's so. Matt Kosterman: That's really cool. I love it. Yeah, no, that's, that's super cool. Um, one of my, uh, pre two, a couple days ago, I interviewed a guy just was at a Q Doka retreat. I don't know if you're familiar with the Deer Tribe, sacred Sexuality Path out of Arizona. And, um, interviewed, uh, a guy out of Boulder, uh, Christopher, uh, and uh, yeah, we had a great, we had a great experience in the container in this immersive container and not BDSM directly, but I, you know, just this whole I, and I was reflecting on it the other day about how between sexuality, you know, sex and drugs and rock and roll, right, we can heal from. Matt Kosterman: Music, we can heal from sex and we can heal from medicines. And those seem to be the things that the patriarchy least wants us to have access to. I mean, like the whole, I mean, you're old enough to remember the eighties and Tipper Gore and the whole, you know, the rock lyrics and the explicit thing. And we were still dealing with the fallout from just say No and all that bullshit. Matt Kosterman: And, um, and God forbid the, you know, that you, that you have sex. So it's, you know, oh, and there's, there's so much healing power to be had through. I mean, I haven't done, I haven't dipped in much into the BDSM world. Did go to a sex party, and I've done a couple of ISTA retreats. Um, but it's ama, you know, it's, and I've heard, I've looked at some shamanic kink, uh, uh, kind of, uh, immersions. Matt Kosterman: Um, but it's amazing the healing that can come through, allowing the sexual energy to flow in your body Wendy: Absolutely. Matt Kosterman: different ways. Um, and so this is what you bring into your, um, work with, you're working these days mostly with solo entrepreneurs that are wanting to, I assume, grow their business and, and expand and running it, running up against their own limitations. Wendy: Yep. Yeah, that's the, um, you know, as a solo entrepreneur, you're doing everything yourself, right? So you don't Matt Kosterman: Yep. Wendy: have a team. Hopefully you build to the point where you have a team, but until you get there, you're, you're by yourself and you know, you live in, you're not a business person in isolation. And in particular with solo entrepreneurs, especially the ones that, so pretty much everyone I work with has not gotten, I, I actually like working with people who are struggling I know it's not necessarily the most lucrative audience because they're struggling and they don't have a lot of money. But it's my passion to be able to, to help them they're the ones who kind of need the most help and assistance. And, um, it is, you know, it, it's not just the business part. 'cause people are very smart. I've, I really have never met anyone who's lazy or Everyone has their own intelligence in their own ways. And lazy is just a word that people use to, to explain some things that they don't like. And it doesn't necessarily, it. Like, I've never known anyone who lacks motivation. Everyone has motivation. They may not have, have energy to take action motivation, but they're highly motivated. They're not lazy people when they have energy, they get their shit done. oops. I can say shit, right? Um, Matt Kosterman: You can say shit. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Wendy: Uh, Matt Kosterman: yeah. Wendy: okay. Just making sure Matt Kosterman: You can say all. You can say all the words. It's, yeah. Wendy: all the worlds. Alright. Matt Kosterman: Uhhuh. Yeah. Yeah. Wendy: you know, those people, are very capable. It's a matter of having the resources and skills to be able to do all the things. And most of it actually comes, stems from a lot of nervous system regulation dysregulation. Wendy: And so, um, you know, I look at people like their whole, whole, their whole existence, right? If you're fighting with your. Your, spouse or your, you haven't had sex in six months because you've just lost that. You're missing a whole creative energy that, like, that is creating stagnation in your building, in your building, in your business, and building your business, um, Matt Kosterman: your body, I mean, stagnation in your body, which, yeah. Right, right. Wendy: of it, it's all connected. We're we're whole people, and especially as I said, solo entrepreneurs, like we're whole people building a business. So you, Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Wendy: of yourself kind of need to be, uh, evaluated and looked at and, you Matt Kosterman: Yeah, I mean, I just, I had that exact, you know, that exact experience coming outta this retreat. I, I, I work as a photographer is my main, my main job. And I, I, um, with some of the, looking at the polarities, the masculine and the feminine and the way that we were looking at 'em, and some of the imprint removal and things that we did, I came back and I had, I booked three sessions with people just to be creative. Matt Kosterman: I photograph a lot of business people. That's my main thing is corporate. I do big corporate events and I do headshots and executive portraits, and I just brought some people in that I enjoyed and I wanted to have their pictures taken. And on the, on the heels of the retreat and created some images that I like, I really like, which is saying something 'cause we're our own worst critics. Matt Kosterman: Um, but it was the, it, I feel like it was the unlocking, I mean, the sexual energy is ultimately creative energy. I mean, it's what we use to create humans and if you can create a human with it, what else can you create with it? Wendy: Exactly unlimited. Matt Kosterman: unlimited. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you get into, I mean, you get in, we could, you know, go down the rabbit hole of sex magic and all of that, you know? I mean, there's all kind of, I mean, it's all, it's what it all goes, but it's the ultimate void. It's the ultimate from nothing comes the little seed and the little egg and boom. Wendy: Yeah. The spark. Matt Kosterman: You got a mouth, you got a mouth to feed Wendy: Two of them in my case. Matt Kosterman: two of 'em. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so how do, what is it, what does it look, how do you engage with people? So you're, you're, you find that. So you're, you're, you're targeting people who are, feel like they've had a diagnosis of A DHD or they just know something's off or they've heard about you. Like what's the, Wendy: Um, yeah, you don't have to have like a, an official diagnosis of diagnosis of A DHD. So part of like, one of the reasons why I focus so much on the neuro pleasure or maybe not necessarily focus so much because I really do help people, like on the business side of stuff, I really do help people the systems in. Things in place that help them have a regulated nervous system so they can create and so they can Matt Kosterman: the functional system, just the stuff that needs to happen in terms of a p and l and a cost of goods and a Wendy: Yeah. Wendy: All the Matt Kosterman: for marketing and the website and all those kind of things. Wendy: it's, Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Wendy: honestly, most of it is about, okay, of these 12 projects that you're trying to build at the same time, let's see if we can narrow it down to three Matt Kosterman: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Wendy: then we go from there. Matt Kosterman: So, Wendy: So Matt Kosterman: so you, now you, Wendy: the issue, Matt Kosterman: yeah. So you, so you now have, you have new appreciation for your, your business major professor trying to get you to, to narrow it down to a major. Wendy: It is not mo Matt Kosterman: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wendy: Um, and Matt Kosterman: and then, and then, yeah. Wendy: That's why I, I think that's why I like doing it so much because it's, I really understand, like I'm in it. Matt Kosterman: Right. You wanna do all the, you wanna do all the things. Wendy: Um, so as far, so like with a DHD, with everything with the body, for the most part, this is my, not, it's not even a philosophy, but it's what I know to be Matt Kosterman: Approach. Wendy: Um, but Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Wendy: call it a philosophy if you, if you want to, is that your body's doing exactly what it's supposed to do with the circumstances at hand. So if you have a DHD symptoms, like that diagnose, if whether or not you have a diagnosis is, Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Wendy: if your hormones are out of balance. Like whatever, the thing is that your body is doing, it's doing it exactly as it's supposed to do and Matt Kosterman: the circumstances, Wendy: the circumstances. And so once you Matt Kosterman: yeah. Wendy: really wrapping your, like once you see it, you can't unsee it, right? Wendy: So then you start Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Wendy: I have to. There's nothing wrong with me. There's nothing wrong with anybody. We're bodies are doing exactly what they're supposed to do with the circumstances, so how do we adjust the circumstances so that way it's not the symptoms we don't like so much. Matt Kosterman: Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I remember Mo, I, I moved into the place that I'm currently in four and a half years ago. And I had been in a place for I think, five years prior. And it was a very nice place, but it had, I, I was coming out of a lot of trauma, divorce, foreclosure, bankruptcy, all kinds of things. Matt Kosterman: And, and, and then it was in this place and started to have conflicts with the property manager, and the place was flooding sewage up from the, you know, whenever it would rain hard. 'cause it was a garden unit. It was gnarly. I mean, five or six times it, it, it, it flooded. And, and I remember moving to this place and it was newer and it was clean. Matt Kosterman: I remember waking up the first morning and just being like, oh, like, everything just was like, oh, it's clean, it's dry. It's not that same person that I'm having to deal with. And there was a level of relaxation that occurred there that that then allowed me to Flo Flourish ever since. So anyway, I can relate strongly to what you're, to what you're saying, Wendy: Yep. Yeah. And sometimes the circumstances are very difficult to change. They are what they are, and Matt Kosterman: right? Wendy: it's a matter of creating, like how do we work within it? So one of the examples I'll use is my son with the, the brain injury. So, um, that's not going away, but that's there there are things that are more difficult because of it, and I have to make adjustments around it. Wendy: I can't just. Fix his brain. I wish I could, Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Yeah. Right. Wendy: I could. Um, so instead I have to change some of the, the circumstances around that it, it, it used to be a lot more stressful. It's less, it's less stressful for many reasons, but, Matt Kosterman: Okay. Wendy: a lot of my Matt Kosterman: So when you're, Wendy: yeah, Matt Kosterman: yeah, and so when you're working with somebody, so you're looking at, okay, what do you want to, what are the, what do you wanna focus on? We got, you have these dozen projects, let's narrow it down to two or three or maybe four. Wendy: yeah, Matt Kosterman: And then, and then you look at what circumstances can, can be change. Matt Kosterman: What, what, what can we change? Like, I mean, the whole thing about the 12 steps, right? What accept, what, what, what you change, what you can change, accept what you can't basically. Wendy: yeah. Matt Kosterman: And then how does, how do, go ahead. Wendy: Oh no. Matt Kosterman: I was gonna say, so how do, how does microdosing and, uh, neuro pleasure, how do those aspects come in? Wendy: So that's part of, so I'm very much a goal set setting intention. If you're around me on the microdosing side, you, will probably have heard that from me. I have a holistic Matt Kosterman: so. Repeat again? Yeah. So it's goal set. Wendy: set setting intention, so that always needs to be looked at first before you even figure out you're gonna do. Whether that be microdosing taking action in your business, trying to fix your relationship, be a better parent. Like, you kind of have to have to look at the, all of those parts of it, because not the same in every circumstance. So I'll, I'll take my son because it's just a. A pretty neutral but understandable topic. Wendy: Right. So I think everyone can understand, like, as a mom, I want my, I want things to be good for my son, both sons. So I take, I have both sons, so like my older one gets, gets ignored in conversations with people, but not ignored in real life, just so, just so you know. Matt Kosterman: He does, he does not have a brain injury. Yeah. Wendy: have a brain injury, so it's less about that. Wendy: But I, I apply a lot of the same, it's the same concept, whether or not it's, whichever son it is. for example, so my younger son, his name is Max. Um, so right now he's 13, but he is more developmentally like a 4-year-old. So he is basically a big, like a toddler with 13 years of experience. So ways he is a little bit older, in some ways he is still younger and he struggles with So part of the brain that controls speech was damaged. So that's, you know, another little thing on top of it, right? Um, you know, toddlers in general get very frustrated easily. They get even more frustrated when they can't communicate, and when you have a toddler going through puberty, it's a very interesting thing, right? So my goals for him are, as I say, I wanna be a better, better parent. My goals are very different between. Max and my older son. Right. you have to look at that first right. Before you can even think about anything else. And then the, when I talk about set, that's about, in the psychedelic space they usually say mindset. Wendy: That's a piece of it. So I, I look at physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, social, like those five kind of aspects of yourself. And that's your set. Like, that's where everything's gonna Matt Kosterman: Okay. Wendy: That's the set, you know, if, if you're an Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Wendy: right. You know, Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Wendy: that's the, and then, you know, the setting goes, goes in with that. Wendy: So like, the setting is different because that's like that person, the set, the whole, maybe it's more like a a what's the tinker toy set? Like Matt Kosterman: Okay. Okay. Yeah. Wendy: toys and how they're gonna fit together. Right. And then you have the, the setting in which the Tinker toy, the tinker toy set is gonna be Right. Um. they change. So I'm going to have a different approach to things when I'm dealing with my older son versus when I'm dealing with my younger son. 'cause that's the setting, you know, it's different people around, Matt Kosterman: Different set. Yep. Wendy: thing. Me, um, with my younger son, am I talking about trying to be angry like, not angry, but like frustrated in the morning when, 'cause he is not potty trained right now, which is a whole nother issue too. Um, and there's biological reasons for that. So don't know if it will ever happen. Uh, low improvements, we'll see. Um, but sometimes as the, you've ever had a kid, if anyone's had a kid, when they're moving through the, the stages, like sizes, sometimes the diapers start leaking. so. A 13-year-old holds a lot of pee, right? Matt Kosterman: compared to a 4-year-old. Yeah, Wendy: And so, um, have been multiple times in the middle of, and so he has to sleep in my bed too, because he's missing some of the reflexes. So if he happens to catch a fever in the middle of the night, he'll throw up. And so he doesn't always sit up when that happens. And so that's not a good thing. Wendy: And because many, everyone knows that that happens sometimes, like, sometimes when you start feeling sick is in the middle of the night and you're fine during the day, but you're not at night. So he just sleeps with me also. He'll wake up screaming, calling for me, and that's very dysregulating for me. Matt Kosterman: sure. Sure. Wendy: um, it's much easier if he just goes, mama, and I'm right there and I don't have to, you know, hop Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Fly out bed and Wendy: like, what's going on? know? so it's just easier. He sleeps in, in my bed. And so sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night because he peed and like, I'm wet and it's, Matt Kosterman: Mm mm Wendy: I'm not exactly super happy in that moment. Right. Matt Kosterman: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Wendy: Um, and it's not his fault, like, you know, like later on during the day when I'm like, you know, I can be, I can logically go, like, it's not his fault. He has the thi you know, like all the things, right? It's not so easy to like. Matt Kosterman: AM Wendy: At Peace and grounded and remember how to breathe in the moment and, right. Wendy: So Matt Kosterman: right? Wendy: goal is very Matt Kosterman: Equanimity. Wendy: you get what I mean? Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Wendy: what I'm trying to say. So like, I just use that one Matt Kosterman: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Wendy: clear example of how, like, that's a very different goal than, okay, what do I do when my older son is rolling his eyes at me when I ask him a question? Right? Like, they're, they're very different, so you can't even look at it. Wendy: And so the set is different, right? Like, I'm a, I'm cranky, like the things that I can do when I'm standing there, having a conversation with my son and I'm awake and not waking up and pee, you know, is very different, right? So you have to look at all of those, those things before you can even start to take action. Wendy: And it's no different with microdosing. And so that's why I look at that and like, what's the intention? So like first with, with, uh, max would be like, okay, your intention is to. Just not say anything. Like just notice what you're feeling and just not say anything. Right. Like, and that was it. Like that's all I worked on. And then once I got that, then we kind of did the next kind of thing because I didn't want him to feel bad. 'cause it, you know, I'm sure you, no one likes to be yelled at. or not he understands, I don't know. We can't have that conversation with him. But, you know, he doesn't like to be yelled at. No one likes to be yelled Matt Kosterman: The ener, the energy of it is no fun for anybody. Wendy: Exactly. So, you know, that was, you know, what you kind of work with. And so as I said, bring it back to microdosing. It's the same kind of thing. So like, are you trying to, are you sitting in front of your desk trying to get work done when you wanna microdose you don't wanna focus on all of the things that are going wrong in your, or are you trying to process your emotions so you can practice having emotional regulation? Wendy: Those are two totally different. Two totally different goals. setting is different when you're at work having to be, know, focused versus like, oh, on Sunday when I've got a, a moment. Right? Those are all the things that you kind of, you just have to look at all that stuff, know, first, and I don't remember what the original question was, 'cause I know I talked about a lot. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. No, I was just, no, that's, that's, that's super interesting. I was, I just was asking about how you bring, you know, the consultative approach to people around, like what to microdose, when to microdose, how to mi, you know, when you know, when, what substance. 'cause the, the substances again, are what, what, LSD, psilocybin a little bit masculine. Matt Kosterman: What's coming? What's coming in now? Are things like two CB or anything? Wendy: yeah, I mean there, there's a, there's a bunch of 'em on there. Iboga is one. So Matt Kosterman: Variety I've seen show up. Mm-hmm. Wendy: you can find like, so sometimes people will, will microdose, ayahuasca. Sometimes they just microdose the vine. Matt Kosterman: I was gonna say, are they doing the, the b, the the vine or the Wendy: the Matt Kosterman: 'cause? The DM T's gonna get Yeah, the B happy. 'cause the DM T's gonna get digested. Wendy: a brew as well. Matt Kosterman: Oh, whole brew. Okay. Wendy: So I mean, everyone's just kind of trying to figure out like what works. Wendy: And then there's a conna as well. But I don't know that that's actually microdose, Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Wendy: dose. Like there's some Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Wendy: microdose versus low dose and it just, it kind of, you have to look at all the other stuff to figure out, okay, what does this substance do? What's, what kind of effect is it gonna have on my set? that Matt Kosterman: Yeah, Wendy: my setting? Is that gonna help me get my goal? And then if those kind of align, all right, like, know, is it also gonna work with my intention? Right. You know, Matt Kosterman: yeah, yeah. And then, yeah. Wendy: that's gonna make you really talkative and you have to be quiet. That's not gonna be a good thing, you know? Matt Kosterman: Well, and I, and I know from the conversations I've seen you be a part of on, on, on the group online and then from your, your SUBSTACK newsletter, like you also coming at it from the brain chemistry side of things and what's going on and what receptors are being triggered and what other medicines may be messing with those receptors, you know? Matt Kosterman: Um, so you're coming at it with a very, um, deep holistic view, which I think is, is refreshing and, and, and really powerful. Um, I'm, I'm wondering if the people who are microdosing the Ayahuasca brew, if they have to drink it out of a two liter Coke bottle, 'cause that that's how it's all is when you do it in the jungle. Matt Kosterman: That's what it's always seems to be in, which I thought was like, no, no, not that Coke bottle honey, don't drink, drink outta that one. Um, and, and then so. So ultimately to put a bow on it, but so we have, we got, um, goal set setting intention, um, but ultimately it's really about bringing the nervous system into coherence and, and getting it to settle down. Matt Kosterman: And where does the neuro pleasure part of that come in? Are you coaching people on like masturbatory practices, sexual practices? Go hire a Tantrika. Um, Wendy: that is, it's just a very personal thing so that, because I have the, the years of orgasm coaching, I have a lot of tools in my toolbox, right, that I can refer, Matt Kosterman: right. Wendy: refer people to. So for. You know, say almost hands down, like, I don't know a single person that I can think of off the top of my head, or I didn't ask or didn't recommend this, but would for women starting with a yoni diaring practice. Um, for men, it's a lingam massage, but I don't know enough to know if it, like, I'll be honest, like I, I, you know, I understand the biology and I understand, Matt Kosterman: Yeah, Wendy: don't have enough and history a, around that to know if that's that and usually what the males that where there's a sex, like a part of their sexuality that needs to be worked on. Almost everyone that I've worked with, it's been either completely low, like no low libido or excessive. Um. like Matt Kosterman: overti like too much. Wendy: usually like a porn addiction or, or some, something along that, along that lines, it's, very rarely, you know, somewhere in between there. Matt Kosterman: In, in, in the middle. Yeah, Wendy: it's just, Matt Kosterman: yeah, yeah. Wendy: just not normally there. Wendy: And usually there's a lot of re it depends, like if it's a relational thing, it just kind of, you have to kind of just depend on where people are starting from, you know, Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Wendy: it still goes with that, the goal set, setting tension. Are they in a relationship and trying to build connection with their partner? Wendy: Are they in a solo practice? You know? I Matt Kosterman: Are we trying to manifest a re trying to manifest a relationship, right. Wendy: like all of that is, it's all, all a piece of the puzzle, you know? And, there isn't just one tool that works for everybody, Matt Kosterman: Yeah, no, which I didn't expect. I was just the de armoring. Yeah. Yeah. I'm actually, uh, in mid-April, I'm going back to Scottsdale for a two week shamonic de armoring practice Wendy: cool. Matt Kosterman: with the Q Tribe. So a very deep dive into basically shattering the armor that we put on. Uh, getting to a frequency to blow away the armor that's been instilled as children. Matt Kosterman: We, we, we armor, armor up. Wendy: Yeah. with Yoni Ging. So if for people who don't know what that is, that's when Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Wendy: it's Matt Kosterman: So the. Wendy: self, self massage on the inside. But um, not just with fingers. Like you kind of to do it well. Well, right. Like to get all the parts you need another, um, device, like a cervical, uh, cervical wand is usually my, my recommendation for that. Um, but it brings up like, just everyone who knows this, I think probably listening to your podcast and if you don't like when you get a massage, you sometimes can cry 'cause it brings up emotions, a memory and all that stuff when you start massaging out the inside. Like actually working through it. There's a ton Matt Kosterman: There's some deep, deep shit buried in there. Wendy: Um, as I said, I know there's lingham massage, but the, prostate and the cervix are, are more closely connected. Matt Kosterman: Yeah, Wendy: know from working, you know, working with people and talking to them about it, that when they start, when males start in with, you know, prostate massage and prostate things, like, there's a lot of stuff there, but it's a lot of, it's a society thing and it's, there's just different programming around it, you know, so it's Matt Kosterman: Yes, Wendy: same, Matt Kosterman: percent Wendy: it's not the same thing. Wendy: Guys usually can talk about being a sexual person without being judged. Um, Matt Kosterman: right. But guys have a hard time talking about putting something in their butt. Wendy: that they do that is for sure. Matt Kosterman: I mean, I mean, it's sort of the, it's the corollary of women, you know, women can't be too, when women start talking about sex, then their, their slots or their hooker. I mean, there's, there's this programming around that. And when men talk about putting things in their butt, but I can tell you from experience, there's a, there's a lot of armoring in there. Matt Kosterman: There's a lot of things buried. Wendy: That's Matt Kosterman: Yeah. It's, Wendy: I, recommend it few for people. That's why I'm Matt Kosterman: yeah. Wendy: I'm like, Matt Kosterman: Yeah, yeah. Wendy: like exploring animal play safely, you know, by yourself first and getting Matt Kosterman: Right. Wendy: it, and like learning and then bringing in a partner or having a partner that helps guide you. Although I'm a big fan of self practices you kind of ha like, I don't, I don't think it's a good idea to outsource your pleasure to people. I've never seen that be Matt Kosterman: I mean. Wendy: long term solution to anything. Yeah, Matt Kosterman: Ultimately, like the, all the sages say, you know, the answer is within. Wendy: yeah, exactly. Matt Kosterman: Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, and, and I mean, I'm, I'm glad you brought this stuff up. I mean, that's why I have the podcast so that we can talk about things like this and start to break the stigma and the shame around these topics. Like we talked about in our, in our sort of, our pre-call was, you know, or maybe it was in the, I dunno, sex and drugs and rock and roll, right? Matt Kosterman: Like, Wendy: Yep. Matt Kosterman: I mean, you can heal through, you can heal parts of your body through music. You can heal parts of your body through access, through medicines, and you can heal parts of your body through sex Wendy: Yep. Matt Kosterman: and sexual energy. Wendy: It's part of you. so I, I am always reminded of this one time I was at, at a journey, where I was a participant, so I don't serve medicine, Matt Kosterman: Yep. Wendy: they, the, the medicine that was served was like a heart opener. And so sometimes people get like a, jaw attention. And so they, they mentioned something about the jaw, I was like, just as a reminder, if you're, and I just like kind of spoke up, like, does it remind everybody if your tense, that means your pelvic floor is tense? Wendy: And everyone got, like, not everyone, but a bunch of people got uncomfortable. And I was like, it's a body part. Like, oh, my elbow. Like, why do we have a problem? we Matt Kosterman: Right. Wendy: our elbow or our wrists or our eyes, or, you know, like Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Yeah. But our pelvic floor, oh my God. Wendy: I know. Matt Kosterman: But yeah. Wendy: Like it. Matt Kosterman: No, I found that out. Yeah. The jaw is, is absolutely directly tied to the, to the, to the pubic pelvic region. Wendy: Yeah, exactly. And so without a healthy pelvic floor, you like, your health is not good. Matt Kosterman: Right, Wendy: I think most people who are alive are looking to have be healthier. So wanna have like a healthy, Matt Kosterman: right. Wendy: you know. Matt Kosterman: Su supple and strong. I mean, I was, that's been my journey. I mean, that's why I'm here today is because it was, my journey was through pelvic floor disorder, through, uh, uh, everything was locked up tighter than drum. I mean, I couldn't, it was twisted. It was lifted, it was tight. There was no mobility tissue all the way to the outside, all the way front, front to back was, you know, I used to sit, I remember I was dating and when we went to a concert, it was Leo Koki, who's a guitar player, who I've loved since I was about 10 years old. Matt Kosterman: And I was sitting there, I felt, and I was playing a ton of tennis at the time, excuse me. And I felt like I was sitting on a golf ball. Like my, my glute was so just a rock. It was crazy. Um, and, and it, it, it ended up being very debilitating for many years. Um, and as I have done the work and opened things up, it's, uh, it's remarkable. Matt Kosterman: The flow. 'cause it's the, it's the root. I mean, I was, it's the root chakra. It's the ground, it's the connection to. This physical earth Wendy: Yep. Matt Kosterman: energetically. Um, and, and I mean, I think, if I'm not mistaken, all of the chakras have connections to the throat. Right. Everything loops up through the throat. But especially the, especially the, the root chakra, um, Wendy: Yeah, it's, uh, so everything's connected through the breath, which goes through the throat, right? Everything's connected to your mind, like, like all of it is connected. So you've got the pelvic floor that's literally the bottom of your diaphragm that goes up, like the energy moves up through and goes out through your, your voice. Wendy: Right? You have your mind, it comes out through your Matt Kosterman: Then whatever's the, the information that's coming in is projected, Wendy: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: is projected out. Yeah. Wendy: everything goes, through your throat. Everything, Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Wendy: yeah. Matt Kosterman: Um, and, and, yeah, I just, I was, one of the interviews earlier this week was with, um, Pascal, who's a Pilates instructor. And so we were talking all about the pelvic floor and the, you know, the strengthening of that through Pilates. Um, 'cause at the time I thought that I had, had, had Pilates suggested to me a couple times. Matt Kosterman: I thought, oh my, I just thought of it as core work and I thought, my god, my core is so tight. The last thing I want to do is, you know, sort of more crunches, which was what, in my mind what Pilates was, where it was gonna be all this kind. And it's, it was, couldn't have been further from the truth. It's been life changing. Matt Kosterman: Um, so with the, um, back to the, back to the Microdosing Forin and there are these different, um, substances and you don't, you don't supply or serve these, how, what, what's your recommendation for people to, to find these things? I know I've seen, in fact, a friend of mine just sent me a link to a, A A A A. A church online that you can join and, and, and get products that might get mushroom products. Matt Kosterman: What you just tell people to, Wendy: Well, Matt Kosterman: know? Wendy: people who who come to me for microdosing support are usually And if you're curious, you probably have found some, it, you're Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Wendy: got influenced somewhere along the way with someone in person. It's rare for someone just to not wanna talk to another human that's done the thing just do it Matt Kosterman: Right, right, right. Wendy: the whole War on Drugs thing where people are very concerned about what it's gonna do. Matt Kosterman: Yeah, it's Wendy: as like where to go, wish it was legal. I mean, just make Matt Kosterman: ridiculous. Wendy: a a lot easier. It's just crazy that we regulate nature. But, um, like talk to people like Matt Kosterman: I mean, basically it's, it's, it's out there. Wendy: it's out there, it's very out there. Wendy: And Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Wendy: where you live, like if you're in a big city, depending on the big city, like there's probably stores that sell it. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Wendy: my 16-year-old knows where to get it. we had a Matt Kosterman: Right. Wendy: about it and I was saying something like, so you know, what kind of have you, I wanted, this was a while ago, I wanted to know if, if he had been using anything yet, or I hate saying using, sometimes Matt Kosterman: Tried if he'd tested out anything. Tried anything. Yeah, Wendy: Um, and he is like, well, you know, you can just get it where you get weed Most of the time I. And it's true. So, um, and people are not, but those aren't always good though either because like the whole diamond shrooms thing and sometimes it's not even what they say. Matt Kosterman: because that was the chocolates, right. With the four a CO in them. Wendy: Yeah, it wa it wasn't, Matt Kosterman: Right. Wendy: even that I, I looked at the, the, everything that was in it. So they blamed am for a lot of it. Right. And Matt Kosterman: Okay. Right. Wendy: wasn't even, um, Amina Musca wasn't even in some of the, some, it wasn't even in some of them, so it wasn't, it couldn't have been that it wasn't in there. Um, Matt Kosterman: That chemical, right? Wendy: a off-label pharmaceutical that's used for, I can't remember which one it is. Wendy: I'll have to maybe, I'll, I'll Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Wendy: I, I wrote it. When I hear it, I know it, but you know, just to recall isn't so easy. But it was a pharmaceutical that can actually like lower your heart rate. Matt Kosterman: Mm, I remember that. Yeah. Wendy: and then they included a whole bunch of other stuff it as well. It was just like a mishmash of a whole bunch of stuff. And you like, it just sucks that it's all regulated because you end up with situations like that versus, Matt Kosterman: It's not regulat. I mean, it's, it's dysregulated. It's, it's, it's prohibited is the problem. And so then, Wendy: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: yeah. Yeah, it's, I mean, not that I would, not that I would advocate for the regulation, but really just decriminalization and then let the things sorted out. But I, yeah, I mean, my advice to people around, and I'm curious years around harm reduction is, you know, dan dance safe.org, you can get test strips for fentanyl. Matt Kosterman: You can get, uh, I think you can also get the kits too. Can't you get the reagents, the marquee and the Wendy: Yeah, you can, and then also, like if you're in a city that a lot of the cities have where you can get your, your drugs tested. Um. Matt Kosterman: if you're, yeah. If you're in Chicago, like I support the, um. Oh no. Oh gosh. I remember they have a van that drives around the city and it's in a different place each day. Wendy: Yeah. But Matt Kosterman: And you can drop off. Wendy: but that's mostly just to make sure, like you're not gonna, it's usually mostly for fentanyl. That's right. In checking for Matt Kosterman: Well, our, Wendy: and making sure that, Matt Kosterman: yeah. Wendy: else is in there. Um, but know, especially with psilocybin, like psilocybin mushrooms, you can find people like they're, they're around. They are Matt Kosterman: Yeah. And they're, and they're, if, if you're getting the whole fruit, it's generally if clean Wendy: yeah. I Matt Kosterman: if's. Wendy: it's, grown in nature or, I mean, could be grown in a bin, but you know what I mean? it's, Matt Kosterman: Sure. Wendy: it's not necessarily, it's not a chemical that's like just put together, not that there's anything, don't have any judgment on any of the steps. To me, it's, it's. Neither good nor bad. It's just goals at setting intention right Matt Kosterman: Right. And, and safety. Wendy: like. If your goal is to have a lot of fun and your set is like relaxed and you know, drinking water all day and your setting is a festival and your intention is to connect with your friends, that's gonna be a different choice. Wendy: Selection than, know, trying to stay focused out at work in a setting where you can't have any emotions. Matt Kosterman: Right. Probably different substances and different amounts. Wendy: All this stuff, right? Um, none of it, it's, it all has all serves a place. You know, in my opinion, it all Matt Kosterman: Sure. Wendy: It's, it's the same with pharmaceuticals. We don't, we just don't think about it. Like there's a lot of different pharmaceuticals for a lot of different things that do a lot of different things and you go to the doctor and you're like, Hey, this is my goal, AKA, this is what's wrong, right? Wendy: Like, Matt Kosterman: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Wendy: They look Matt Kosterman: Right. Wendy: your set. much do you weigh? What's your height like? Right. They look Matt Kosterman: Blood pressure and. Wendy: Yeah. And they don't really look at setting. Right. Um, but Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Wendy: you know, and they don't really look at your intention, but they at least do those first two parts before they on what the Matt Kosterman: Right? Like what, Wendy: be. Matt Kosterman: the goal? Get rid of the pain. Wendy: Yeah, Matt Kosterman: Right. What, oh, interesting. Yeah. That's an interesting way to look at it, Wendy: Yeah. They're just missing those next steps. Matt Kosterman: right? Right. Of what, yeah. Of the, of the setting and the intention. And maybe it's not a good idea to take this medicine if you're setting is, again, someplace where you can't show emotion or you need to show emotion or whatever it might be. Wendy: Exactly. Matt Kosterman: Um. Wendy: looking at microdosing, you know, for the most part, the. It depends on what their, once again, what's their goal like. So if, if it's someone who has a lot of emotional dysregulation, and that's kind of what's driving, their maybe not taking action in their business, like worthiness, um, feeling like an imposter, you know, like a lot of those things that we kind of, kind of know that we do, there's usually an emotional reason behind that. So that means you probably would want something like psilocybin when you have time work on the reasons why you, you're doing that. Because if you don't keep working, if you don't get underneath there, it's, there's still gonna be there. Like you can medicate, you can't medicate your way out of your issues forever. You know, you can't Matt Kosterman: Right, right. Wendy: out of dehydration. Like, that's basically what you're, it's the, the equivalent, right? Like you. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. It's not a, it's not a bandaid. It's not a, Wendy: Yeah, so you Matt Kosterman: I mean, it's, yeah. Wendy: right? Like you can hide the symptoms, right? But unless you get underneath there and, and work on what's causing circumstances, causing the symptoms, right? Then, um, you know, then, then it's still gonna be there and you're, they're still, you're still gonna have the reasons why. So, like, psilocybin brings up emotions. So if you're going to I love my, you know, microdosing, psilocybin is beautiful for what it's beautiful for. is beautiful. For what is beautiful for, it's a not LSD is a non-specific amplifier. So whatever has got your attention, it's gonna like go with that. If what actually has your attention is that you are about like, what are people gonna think? Or like, maybe you're not posting on social Matt Kosterman: I am I good enough? Wendy: whatever the reasons are That's actually what has your attention. And then you take LSD, your brain is gonna be like, I don't wanna focus on that, so I'm just gonna find the new, the other thing that's not gonna bring up all these emotions and then I'm just gonna go there because it's easier. And so LSD, when people find the right dose for them in the right circumstances, it's really great, but in it is not necessarily a focus thing. It will just take your attention wherever it Matt Kosterman: Yeah, Wendy: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: and amplify it. Wendy: yeah. And so that might be color coding your file cabinet instead of working on your business proposal. Wendy: You know? Matt Kosterman: So to be really organized, Wendy: Um, or it could be like organizing your kitchen cabinet when you go in for a snack that you, because you were subconsciously, you know, um, yourself from the emotions that were arising. So you go to the kitchen without even realizing it, go to grab a snack, realize, oh, this is a mess. And two hours later you're cabinet's clean, but you haven't gone back into your office to do anything yet. You know, that's a, Matt Kosterman: uh uh. Wendy: like, that's how LSD can, can work for people. But if there's really clear boundaries around it and the motivations there and there's not the emotional dysregulation and the other stuff that's, know, under the surface, then it could be a Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Wendy: substance. Right. Um, and in general you will feel better. Wendy: Like that's one of the things all of them do in general, once, like Matt Kosterman: In general, I mean, it's a, it's, it's a, it's a little bit of a lift. There's a bit of a little wind under your, in your sails, if you will. Wendy: Yeah. Wendy: I call Matt Kosterman: Was my experience like a nudge? Wendy: So specifically what's happening metabolically, it's a metabolic nudge, so it's gonna make things a little bit easier. But if the intention's not there, like if the goal isn't clear, the intention's not there, which Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Wendy: nudging you? Like your intention helps set your direction for the nudge. And if you don't, you might be going aiming in the right direction when you take it. And so then it's gonna be a good nudge. But if you're facing the other way and it nudges Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Wendy: it's, Matt Kosterman: you nudge that way, Wendy: exactly. Matt Kosterman: yeah. Wendy: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: And, so a couple things. So did, and we never really defined, for those that don't know, like a, a, a microdose, how, what's your definition? Wendy: Um, Matt Kosterman: of varies. How do you, how do you characterize that? Wendy: so it is not something that you like, feel in the sense of like, you're not tripping. Matt Kosterman: Yeah, yeah. Wendy: so the, I like the description of threshold to understand. So say a psychedelic experience. I think we all have, whether or not you've had it, you have a, an idea. 'cause you probably have seen cartoons or something, you know, like to, to know that there's gonna be a different, uh, perception of re of, of your circumstances, right? Wendy: So like, that's Matt Kosterman: And, and if, Wendy: right? Matt Kosterman: yeah, and fear. Fear and loathing in Las Vegas, if you haven't had one, that's probably as close as you can get on the movie. Wendy: There you go. So of that as being in one door, like in one room, right? And there's a doorway. So that's called, you know, like there's a threshold of the doorway. Microdosing is way on the side of it. As you start a press approaching that threshold, you like, say the doorway's, just like it's open. Wendy: There's not a closed door there. So as you Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Wendy: the threshold, you can kind of see in, so you're starting Matt Kosterman: Okay. Wendy: notice stuff, right? Matt Kosterman: Mm. Wendy: microdosing is somewhere. Between like, you're not on the threshold, right? Like, you're Matt Kosterman: Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're not, not poking your head through. Wendy: You're feeling something, like you're noticing Matt Kosterman: Yeah, Wendy: you're seeing, like, it may not be like full over there, but Matt Kosterman: sure. Wendy: you're, there like, Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Something's, something's not the same. Wendy: Why is the Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Wendy: look like it's talking or Matt Kosterman: Why is it waving at me? Wendy: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Wendy: like for me, that trees will breathe, like the earth will breathe and I'm like, I got too much because it's starting Matt Kosterman: I had too much. Wendy: Um, Matt Kosterman: Right? Wendy: so that's too much. That's not a microdose. So, uh, microdose is before that, somewhere between nothing and oh, things are starting to breathe, you know, Matt Kosterman: Yeah. But probably closer to nothing. Then closer to things are starting to breathe. Yeah. Yeah. Wendy: your normal day. And so what that amount is, is, you know, there's the average, but that. That's the average. And if people have a DHD, they're already not average. Matt Kosterman: Mm. Mm-hmm. Wendy: they're this, the amount they need is almost not ever average amount. It's either gonna be on one side or the other, lower or Matt Kosterman: Excuse me. Like just a very, like a, just a very little bit to get 'em somewhere or, or you need to kind of push through something. Wendy: Yeah. It just depends. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Wendy: once again, goal set, setting intention because, so Matt Kosterman: And, and. Wendy: part is important. That's the what's going on with the body, you know? Matt Kosterman: Yeah. And so what does that engagement look like with you? So you're meeting, you're having like an initial consultation with somebody. You're going kind of through history and kind of feeling into with your own intuition of what might be the, with your own intuition and your knowledge of how these substances work chemically and what their goal set and setting and intention are. Matt Kosterman: And so you're Val, and so you're doing an initial valuation Wendy: it depends. Matt Kosterman: and Wendy: actually. Actually in February I have a cohort that's coming up, um, where I go through protocol development and then I'm gonna take, will be a course after that make it. 'cause Matt Kosterman: Okay. Wendy: one, but it was a little too in, too in depth. You know, sometimes when things are too much, people don't read all the things. So especially my A DH, right? They're like, I'll do Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Wendy: it and they get overwhelmed with all, all the stuff and they're like, that's too much. I'll just do it later. I'll do it later. I'll Matt Kosterman: I'll do it later. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Wendy: Um, so I need to, so I, I now have a much, much simpler thing. I always start, we always start with goal set, setting intention. So the biggest issue, people know their goals. They're pretty good at that. They can also figure out their settings. Like that's pretty obvious. And intentions, people struggle with it. A lot of times people still want to focus on goals. 'cause the goal is like the outcome. Matt Kosterman: Okay. Wendy: be. Right? So Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Wendy: about like doing and be like, what are you, how are you being like, Matt Kosterman: How you're showing up in the world. Wendy: exactly. That's Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Wendy: and they're different. Right. You know? So the goal is not Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Wendy: get mad and yell. The intention is like, okay, I actually want to have a, have a space between, you know, a thought Matt Kosterman: Action and re the thought and the reaction. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wendy: more Matt Kosterman: the goal might. Wendy: Yeah, Matt Kosterman: The goal might be to grow revenues by 25% in the next year Wendy: So, yeah, exactly. So like for business it would, yeah, there's, there's Matt Kosterman: in business world. Yeah, Wendy: is like, oh, when I have a to do list, I don't just get overwhelmed with it and start doom scrolling. Right? Like Matt Kosterman: yeah, yeah, Wendy: that's, more intention Matt Kosterman: the intention. Wendy: Right. and so the set part is the part where people, it's a little bit harder to, you know. Figure it all out. But this is when you look at the, the, I kind of have seven S's that I run people through. like look at the sun, look at your sleep, look at your sustenance, look at your supplements, look at your social interactions, look at your self partnership. Is that six? What's seven? Matt Kosterman: Sex, sex, sex is, sex is an us. Wendy: Um, I don't put it as sex because you either have social Right, which could be Matt Kosterman: Okay. Wendy: right if you're in a partner Matt Kosterman: right. Wendy: or your self partnership, because self partnership, it doesn't just mean sexuality because sex, sex is just kind of a thing. It's like breathing Matt Kosterman: Yeah, Wendy: Like, Matt Kosterman: yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? Wendy: that's, it's a component. Wendy: It's not the thing. Um, but it's, I mean, it's a fun part of life. Uh, so anyways, the, so you kind of look through the seven, I'll, I'll remember the seventh one Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Wendy: You know, when Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Wendy: when Matt Kosterman: When you're not trying Wendy: Yeah, exactly. and so by kind of doing that, people get honest about it, right? And then, then you kind of, then you pair it with, uh, with everything, right? then you kind of gotta learn the sub, sub substances a little bit under, that's the part that I like to share with people is, okay, here's what LSD is, like, this is what it's good for. You know, kind of Matt Kosterman: Mm. Mm-hmm. Wendy: what it's good for, here's psilocybin, what it's good for, here's mescaline, what it's good for. And then I also like amanita in there, blue Lotus, like a lot of times most people are starting with like Amanita and Blue Lotus or Red Lotus. I really like Red Lotus. Um, and those kind of starting there and then maybe figuring out if they even need a, a substance after that, it's it, but it's just, you can't. You can't make blanket statements about anything because we're all Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Yeah. It's no one size. Wendy: circumstances. Yeah. Matt Kosterman: And, and even, even from day to day, it changes. I mean, the, you know, macro mushroom trips that I've had have been very different from one another. Wendy: Yep. Matt Kosterman: De de depending on what's going on. Wendy: and that, and then once you pick the substance, then it's like, okay, what's the amount, what, how often, and in general, I'll just say this across the board, hands down for people with a DHD, I'm a big fan of picking which days of the week you take it. Not like a schedule, but based on the, because the goal set setting intention, right? Wendy: So like, if you're a solo entrepreneur and you have one day where you have a whole bunch of clients that you're supporting emotionally and you're having to be grounded, you're not gonna wanna take psilocybin that day 'cause it's gonna be bringing up your own emotions. And like, that's not the right circumstance. Matt Kosterman: Yep. Wendy: But maybe taking it the night before with some journaling practices so you can process your emotions so you can show up more grounded. That might make more sense. Right. So it, it really is a, that's why I'm always like, goal sets intention Matt Kosterman: Yeah, yeah. No, I love that. That's beautiful. Yeah. Wendy: you know, you can learn what the substances do and then decide like, okay, how does that actually fit in my goal, with my set, with my setting, with my intention? Wendy: Right. Matt Kosterman: And then you're, and then you're check, and when you're working with somebody, you're checking in with them. You guys are having meetings on a calls, on a regular basis kind of a thing to see, review what happened in the, in the prior week or two or three or whatever. Wendy: Yeah. So I have kind of two options. So I have my, my business coaching clients. So microdosing support is just built in, you know, it's, it's there, Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Wendy: twice a week. Um, so Tuesdays is very business. Focused. So like, you know, 'cause that's why we're there. Like, we need to make money. You know, like that's Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Wendy: that's the reality of this world. Wendy: You know? Like that's, that's what we're, we're there for. But then Thursday's really about like, okay, what do we need to do for your nervous system? And that can look like anything. So that's anything's on the table and people just kind of come with whatever it is. It could be a microdosing question, it could be a relationship question. Wendy: It could be a, it could still be a systems question. 'cause if they're like, I am so stressed, I cannot figure this out. You know, what's the, what's the thing, whatever it is that they need to figure out how to get back into regulation. That's, that's what Thursdays are for. And so that's usually where the microdosing kind of shows up there. And then if I Matt Kosterman: Got it. Cool. Wendy: then it's just, figure that out together. Matt Kosterman: So Tuesday. So Tuesday. So Tuesdays and Thursdays. So this is group, these are cohorts. It's a group. Group stuff. Tuesdays and Thursdays. Wendy: Yeah. For the business then. Matt Kosterman: for the business. Wendy: the protocol development. just for microdosing protocol development. I have a cohort in February, that's Wednesdays at 11. Um, and it just runs for four weeks. And then, I don't know when, I haven't scheduled the next one after that. Maybe Matt Kosterman: Okay. Wendy: whenever I feel Matt Kosterman: yeah, yeah. Wendy: I, Matt Kosterman: Sure. Wendy: I was like, Matt Kosterman: Beautiful. Wendy: nervous system dictates. Matt Kosterman: Yeah, whatever, right? Which is, you know, I think ultimately because we're so, because of the nature of our consumerist society and our corporate driven society, we forget that. Like we get forced into, you gotta do it now because you gotta do it now. And maybe the system doesn't wanna do it now, and maybe that's okay. Wendy: Yep. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Oh, I know. Chicago Recovery Alliance. So for anybody in the Chicago area, it's, uh, Chicago Recovery Alliance. They actually have a mass spectrometer and they will analyze any drugs and they, they love to get samples because their funding is based on how many, how, how much stuff they process. So it's not a, don't think of it as a, um, imposition. Matt Kosterman: They want to, they want to do this work, and they'll test it for fentanyl, and they'll test it for contaminants. They'll test it for purity. You drop it off in an envelope, you give 'em your phone number. Uh, the truck is usually, it's up at, it's at Humboldt Park. Um, one day of a week. It's on the north side, another day, a week. Matt Kosterman: It's on the south side, another day, a week. Um, and so most big cities have something like that, that allow you to, they do needle exchanges for people that are, you know. I using drugs with needles. But you just, you walk up, they don't need to know who you are. You give 'em the thing, you give 'em the phone number, and usually within a week they'll, they'll give you the results. Matt Kosterman: So that's a, that's a very safe way to, uh, experience drugs. Wendy: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Harm, harm reduction. Wendy: Yep. It's all about the harm reduction. Life's already crazy Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. And I mean, the reality is people are gonna try, people wanna try this stuff. They're gonna do this stuff. And so how can we do it with, with the, the, the best possible outcomes, the least harm. Wendy: I agree. Matt Kosterman: Um, well, Wendy, thanks so much for, you know what, Wendy: seventh Matt Kosterman: what's that? Wendy: my seventh s was spirituality, Matt Kosterman: Oh, spirituality. There we go. Wendy: I Matt Kosterman: Yeah, Wendy: what am I forgetting? Matt Kosterman: yeah. There it is. Matt Kosterman: There it is. Wendy: Yeah, Matt Kosterman: Um, so we will have, so tell what's the website? You can, we can say it verbally and then it'll be in the. Wendy: the success doula com. Matt Kosterman: A success doula, DOUL a.com, the success doula.com. Wendy: I got that name from a client and was like, you're basically like helping me birth my business. Matt Kosterman: I love that. Wendy: I was like, Matt Kosterman: Yeah. 'cause at first Wendy: yeah. Matt Kosterman: yeah, when I, when I saw it at first I was kinda like, oh, well, yeah. I mean, you want to have a, you know, if you're gonna get a birth doula, you want it to be successful, but it's really about birthing the business. Wendy: Yeah, exactly. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Wendy: creating like the life that you wanna live. Matt Kosterman: You wanna live. Amazing. Wendy: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Well, thanks so much for being here, Wendy: Thanks for Matt Kosterman: spending the time. Wendy: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. I love it. And, uh, we'll put all of the information down below in the little text place, so feel free to reach out to Wendy and, and get in touch. I don't know where we were the end of January, so I don't know if we'll make it out for your February, but possibly. Matt Kosterman: Um, but otherwise it'll be there. There will be more. Wendy: exactly. I'm not going anywhere I Matt Kosterman: All right, Wendy, thanks for sharing You Right. That you know of. Yeah. Thanks so much for sharing and uh, thanks everybody for listening and be well.