Latest / Karl and Crew / Why Blue-Collar Work Matters to God with Dave Hataj & How God Uses Our Senses to Draw Us Closer with Dr. Winfred Neely

Transcript

Why Blue-Collar Work Matters to God with Dave Hataj & How God Uses Our Senses to Draw Us Closer with Dr. Winfred Neely · Karl and Crew

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  S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. Its cast
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  S1: and crew come as you are, an experienced guide, overcome
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  S1: what seems impossible and live as you never imagined delivering
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  S1: the truth daily.
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  S2: If it were possible to have every worldly gain available
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  S2: and you're forfeiting your soul, there's no amount of gain
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  S2: that would make it worth it.
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  S3: Our own way never ever works. Because it's apart from
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  S3: the life source, which is God.
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  S4: For me, growing up, love was always conditional and can
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  S4: be taken from you. Christ's love can't. And he went
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  S4: to the cross with my mind and my heart that night.
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  S1: Now from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl
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  S1: and Crew quick poll.
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  S2: All right. You know, I like to take these quick
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  S2: pop up polls. It's just kind of one of the
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  S2: things that I like to do. Are you a hugger
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  S2: or not so much. Because there's definitely a range in
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  S2: terms of the level of comfort that most people feel
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  S2: there is.
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  S4: Yes. And depending on the situation.
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  S2: Absolutely. We're we're talking healthy physical touch here. Are you
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  S2: somebody do you go in for the hug? Do you
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  S2: go in for the handshake? Maybe you do the side
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  S2: arm hug kind of splitting the difference. That's kind of
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  S2: my family's thing, where a side hugger more than like
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  S2: a full on embrace. Would love to hear from you.
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  S2: (800) 555-7898 text messages only in just in a word or two.
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  S2: Are you a hugger or not so much. (800) 555-7898 super di.
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  S4: I'm a full hugger. Yes I am. I absolutely am.
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  S2: Super dog gives the best hugs.
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  S4: I love hugs.
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  S2: Truly, there's there's nothing like that. The feeling of being
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  S2: really embraced by somebody who says, I see you, you matter.
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  S2: I know.
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  S4: But I do respect the recipient. Absolutely. Sometimes it's a
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  S4: side hug, I get it, the side hug, I get
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  S4: it a.
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  S2: Little fist bump.
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  S4: A little bit sometimes. But, you know.
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  S2: You know, I a couple of years ago, I launched
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  S2: a website where I did some feature writing. It was
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  S2: a passion of mine for a little bit. And I actually,
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  S2: one of my favorite stories that I got to tell
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  S2: was about a woman who was affectionately known as the
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  S2: Hug Doctor. I remember she just oh boy, she's one
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  S2: of a kind. And so she's an usher at my church.
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  S2: And I had seen her for years. And you, you
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  S2: don't have to know her for very long before the
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  S2: hugs become the thing that you most remember about her.
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  S2: Because she pulls you in and she and she does
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  S2: this for everybody, and she gives you this great big embrace.
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  S2: And there's just something different about her hugs. And so
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  S2: I thought, you know what? I would love to like
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  S2: find out like the story behind it. And so I
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  S2: spent a couple hours with her. She's got the hug
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  S2: doctor written on like her, the side of her car
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  S2: and her license plate.
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  S4: I know that.
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  S2: She has developed a whole ministry around the Ministry of
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  S2: Healthy Physical Touch. So as I started to get to
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  S2: know her a little bit more, I found out that
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  S2: there was way more to her story than I ever
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  S2: could have imagined. And she had come from a background
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  S2: of of she was raised in an awesome Christian family.
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  S2: And she says when she first started, hugs were kind
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  S2: of a way of communicating the care that she had
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  S2: for people because she was really shy and introverted and
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  S2: didn't really know what to say.
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  S4: So she hugged.
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  S2: She was kind of thrust into ministry at an early age. And,
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  S2: and so she just would go and hug people because
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  S2: she wanted to let them know that, hey, I see
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  S2: you and I care about you, but I don't really
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  S2: know what to say because she felt a little shy
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  S2: and introverted.
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  S4: So she went in for the hug.
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  S2: So she went in for the hug and, you know,
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  S2: and then she says, you know, as the years went on,
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  S2: she experienced some real pain and some real trauma in
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  S2: her life. And so now she says a hug. It's
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  S2: not that she doesn't know what to say. It's that
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  S2: sometimes the pain that people are going through. There really
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  S2: are no words. And so what she does is she
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  S2: has a ministry of, of hugs. And so I just,
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  S2: I was so drawn to her story and I would
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  S2: consider myself somewhere in between. I'm, I'm good with a hug, but,
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  S2: you know, I'm sometimes it takes me some time to
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  S2: warm up to it.
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  S4: Yeah, yeah.
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  S2: Side hug. But I would love for you to read
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  S2: her story if you're interested. If you want to hear
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  S2: more about the hug doctor, I've linked it up for you.
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  S2: Just text hug to 800 555, 7898 and you'll get
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  S2: to read all about Rachel the Hug Doctor Who. If
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  S2: you go to Chicago Tabernacle, you know exactly who I'm
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  S2: talking about. Just text hug to 805 557898. I think
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  S2: from a text messages, either everybody listening is a hugger
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  S2: or huggers are also the texters.
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  S4: Yes. Come on.
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  S2: Because we're at probably a 90/10 as far as hugger. Yes.
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  S2: Hugs for sure.
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  S4: You get T-shirts made.
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  S2: Warning hugger. Love language? Yes. Hug full on hugger for 20s.
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  S2: Lots of emojis here. I got one. Not so much. Hey,
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  S2: we're good with that too. I want you to read
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  S2: this story. Text hug to 800 555 7898. The power
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  S2: of healthy physical touch. It's well documented. It can help
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  S2: release those good, those feel good hormones. It can help
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  S2: promote healing. You know, newborns, when they put that baby
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  S2: on your on your chest, when you first give birth,
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  S2: it helps you bond.
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  S4: And a lot of times too, when you do hug
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  S4: and you go in for that true, safe, you know,
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  S4: loving hug, you can also feel when somebody is going
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  S4: through something like if you just talk to them and
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  S4: they say, how are you doing? Oh, I'm fine. You
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  S4: go in for that hug. You can actually, God, you
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  S4: feel the difference. You can feel that somebody is going
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  S4: through something and they need to let go of that.
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  S2: It's a beautiful thing.
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  S4: When we.
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  S2: When physical touch is used in a healthy and positive way.
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  S2: If you want this story, just text hug to 805 557898.
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  S1: Applying the word to life. God loves your wives so much. Men.
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  S1: If you're not living with your wife in an understanding way,
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  S1: your prayers are bouncing off the ceiling. You're listening to
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  S1: Carl and crew.
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  S2: Have you ever experienced the touch of God through the healthy,
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  S2: physical touch of another person? Was the hand that was
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  S2: squeezed that said, hey, I'm here with you. A hand
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  S2: on the shoulder, maybe with a prayer or a word
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  S2: of affirmation. Someone put a hand on the shoulder, looked
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  S2: you in the eye and told you who you are,
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  S2: what what you meant to them. Maybe that hug. There
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  S2: wasn't even words spoken, but you just needed to know
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  S2: that someone cared. Yeah. If you experienced that, tell me
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  S2: about a time when God touched your heart through the healthy,
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  S2: physical touch of another person. 800 555, 78, 98 super die.
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  S2: I know you've got a story.
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  S4: I do, I do. It's about two and a half
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  S4: years ago, I was kind of in the midst of
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  S4: between churches. Some things had gone down at a prior church,
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  S4: and it was just really a hurting time and a
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  S4: praying time and following time. So I was visiting a
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  S4: church and had gone just a few times. It was
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  S4: one of those where you sneak in the back and
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  S4: you sneak out at the end. So it really kind
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  S4: of stayed under the radar. I was just really processing
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  S4: things and praying about things. And so it's probably about
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  S4: my third or fourth visit and I'm sitting there and
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  S4: all of a sudden from behind, I feel this hug,
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  S4: bear hug, and I turn around and it's a young woman.
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  S4: And I actually have known her since high school. A
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  S4: very early church in a different place than I lived.
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  S4: I remember her and her family at that time. Hadn't
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  S4: seen them in a long time. She saw me, recognized me.
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  S4: I didn't even see her or her family or whatever,
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  S4: but she was walking through and came behind me and
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  S4: gave me this huge hug. And she goes, I'm so
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  S4: glad you're here. Oh, wow. And then after church, like
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  S4: her mom, they all came and talked to me, but
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  S4: just boom, that bear hug. And like, it startled me
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  S4: a little bit. But at first I was like, thank you, God,
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  S4: because I was seen. Oh, and so going to that
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  S4: church still.
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  S2: Makes you emotional.
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  S4: Very emotional. But I was seen and she has no idea.
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  S4: Well she does, I told her, you have no idea
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  S4: what that hug did for me today.
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  S2: Yeah.
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  S4: Oh, but yeah, it was, it was, it was everything
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  S4: that morning. It was everything that morning.
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  S2: It's such a powerful way of communicating care.
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  S4: Oh, absolutely.
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  S2: And we talked about, you know, we looked at how Jesus,
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  S2: he touched lepers. He, you know, there's the where he
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  S2: puts the mud and the Sometimes the touch is associated with.
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  S2: Like what we would think we would be almost grossed out.
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  S2: The touch. Touching a leper, going and touching somebody who has,
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  S2: who's clearly sick, who has fever, who has a fever,
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  S2: who has, who's in some other way afflicted. For most people,
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  S2: there's sort of some distance that you want to put.
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  S2: You don't want to get. You certainly don't want to
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  S2: get what they have. You know, I mean, just being
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  S2: coming from a place of somebody who's in my in
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  S2: my natural state, I'm a bit of a germaphobe. So
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  S2: the thought of going in, oh, it looks like you
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  S2: have a skin skin disease. Let me come.
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  S4: In. Many of us are in post Covid. I don't
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  S4: want to go near that.
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  S2: Exactly.
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  S4: You know.
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  S2: But it wasn't just healing. I want to I want
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  S2: you to look at some other places in Scripture where
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  S2: we see Jesus use touch in a very intentional way.
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  S2: I mentioned one of them. Jesus's touch represented blessing. We
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  S2: see when he this is in Mark ten where he
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  S2: brings the children. At first the disciples say, no, no, no, no.
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  S4: But get them.
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  S2: Get them out of here. But he brings them and
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  S2: he says, no, no. Let them come to me. And
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  S2: he embraces them and he blesses them. So Jesus's touch
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  S2: represented blessing. It also represented service. I want you to
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  S2: think about the physical touch that was incorporated in the
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  S2: washing of the feet, the actual taking.
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  S4: Of.
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  S2: Dirty feet into his hands, washing a little bit of
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  S2: water in a basin. And it obviously there was a
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  S2: representation that if I don't wash you, you have no
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  S2: part in me. So there was often this this spiritual
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  S2: parallel along with the the healthy physical touch. One more
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  S2: that I saw, and I'm sure there are many others.
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  S2: These are just four that stood out to me. Jesus's
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  S2: touch represented assurance. Remember when he after the resurrection and
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  S2: he goes back to the disciples.
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  S4: And.
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  S2: They can't believe that it's him at first.
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  S4: And he's like, look here. And then.
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  S2: He, he allows them to touch him so that they
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  S2: could feel assured that, yeah, it's me.
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  S4: It's me.
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  S2: And then even Thomas gets a step further because Thomas
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  S2: is the one who doubted and wasn't there for the first.
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  S4: He gets a little extra there.
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  S2: He's like, no, put your fingers here. You can know
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  S2: that it's me. You can have that assurance.
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  S1: He was sharing the gospel on the radio and then
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  S1: he got saved. Young thunders in the crew. It's Colin
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  S1: Crew on Moody radio.
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  S2: When you think about from the moment you wake up
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  S2: in the morning, you start to experience the world around
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  S2: you in some pretty specific and magnificent ways. Think about you,
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  S2: open your eyes, and if you have the blessing of
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  S2: the ability to see you, immediately see the sunshine. You
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  S2: see what's going on. You see maybe other people, if
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  S2: you are in the room with somebody else, you're able
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  S2: to see a clock or a phone and you hear
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  S2: you're able to hear birds chirping. Maybe someone has started
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  S2: a coffee. So you hear a coffee dripping the water
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  S2: from a shower that's running in the other room. And
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  S2: then you start to smell the aroma of coffee. If
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  S2: somebody woke up early and made you breakfast, you might
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  S2: smell some pancakes or some bacon. And then as you
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  S2: reach into your closet, you can feel with your fingers,
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  S2: you can determine, do I want to wear this cashmere
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  S2: sweater today? If you own a cashmere sweater, would I
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  S2: rather feel fleece? Do I want to feel denim? The
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  S2: five basic senses. Because scientists and researchers will tell you
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  S2: that there are many more senses. But the five basic
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  S2: ones we're going to be talking about a lot this
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  S2: week as we look at Scripture. Doctor Winifred Neely is
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  S2: going to be kicking us off. Retired vice president and
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  S2: dean of Moody Theological Seminary. I started with maybe a
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  S2: more dramatized description than most people actually process as they
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  S2: wake up in the morning. But the fact that God
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  S2: gave us the ability to experience the world and all
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  S2: that he's made in all of these different ways is
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  S2: maybe more of a miracle than we've given credit to.
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  S2: What do you say?
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  S5: I think it's a wonderful expression of the love of
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  S5: God and His common grace. We are created in his image.
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  S5: We have the capacity to hear.
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  S2: Yeah.
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  S5: So there is something in God that's comparable to hearing.
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  S5: We have the capacity to see. He gave us physical eyes.
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  S5: And there is something comparable to seeing in God. And
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  S5: so that in our our sensory experience of the world,
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  S5: we are actually embodiments and representations of God Himself. Hence
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  S5: the express the biblical expression that we are created in
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  S5: the image of God. This is why our heart goes
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  S5: out to those. On a side note, for those who
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  S5: have disabilities, for example, who are not able to see
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  S5: or cannot hear, who are not able to talk. And
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  S5: these are also expressions of a fallen world. But even
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  S5: in the grace of God, there, there are mechanisms that
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  S5: God has given to us, even so that those who
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  S5: may have have a disability of sight or disability, of
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  S5: hearing are able to hear, communicate through sign language, to
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  S5: read through Braille and all of these aspects of who
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  S5: we are as people point to the fact that God
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  S5: Himself wants to communicate with us, and he will use
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  S5: our senses as pathways to bring us to a deeper
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  S5: and richer understanding of himself, and consequently, of who we
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  S5: are as Christians who are identified in Christ.
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  S2: And, you know, the beautiful thing is, once you start
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  S2: to look for it, you see these sensory things pop
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  S2: up all over Scripture. I mean, the one that comes
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  S2: to mind first, maybe for most people is Psalm 348.
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  S2: Taste and see. Two of them combined into one verse.
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  S2: Taste and see that the Lord is good. What else
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  S2: do you see as throughout Scripture? As you look at
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  S2: the way these different senses are described, and we're invited
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  S2: to utilize them in how we connect with God.
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  S5: Well, taste is a big one. As you noted, taste
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  S5: and see that the Lord is good. I have often
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  S5: told the story of how there was a brand of
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  S5: donuts that I loved and liked. I'm not going to
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  S5: mention the brand on the air, but it was a
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  S5: brand of donuts that I really loved, and a friend
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  S5: of mine invited me to try another brand of donut.
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  S5: I thought to myself, there's no way in the world
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  S5: that this donut that he's offering me is going to
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  S5: be better than that donut that I grew up digesting
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  S5: all of my life in the city of Chicago. Well,
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  S5: I take a taste of this donut that he offered me.
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  S5: It was such a delightful experience. I can still remember.
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  S5: It seems as if my brain was firing with delight.
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  S5: And you know what happened? I stopped eating the donuts
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  S5: that I used to eat and started eating these new
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  S5: doughnuts because they tasted better. And when I trusted Christ
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  S5: as my personal Lord and Savior, I put down the
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  S5: old donuts of my sinful living because Jesus tasted so
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  S5: much better, you know? So that's the taste metaphor.
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  S2: Yeah. And, you know, with a lot of these, it's
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  S2: metaphorical because obviously when we think about our experience, our
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  S2: relationship with with Jesus, we don't taste in the same
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  S2: way that we would taste food. We don't hear an
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  S2: audible voice. We hear the teaching and the preaching of
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  S2: the word. Um, we're not able to touch him. Although
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  S2: several people in Scripture were. So how do we apply
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  S2: these metaphors to our daily walk with him?
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  S5: Let's take, for example, the metaphor of sight. The Bible
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  S5: says a lot about that. The psalmist says, open my
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  S5: eyes that I may see wondrous things in your law.
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  S5: In some sense, Allie, the sight there is divine illumination.
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  S5: It's the Spirit of God supernaturally opening our mind to
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  S5: understand Scripture in ways that we could not understand under
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  S5: our own cognitive strength. For example, I have had the
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  S5: privilege to preach God's Word for 50 years. I am
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  S5: still preaching texts that I have preached before and have
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  S5: studied and have copies of them in my files of sermons.
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  S5: I'm revisiting these old messages, and guess what? They're fresh.
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  S5: They are new. I see things in these old messages
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  S5: that I did not see before, even though I have
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  S5: preached them. Even though God has used them. This is
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  S5: because the. The site that God grants us is supernatural
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  S5: and the scriptures are eternal and inexhaustible. Meaning there will
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  S5: always be some aspect of these texts. No matter how
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  S5: deeply we have studied that we have not seen through
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  S5: the power and ministry of the Spirit of God.
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  S4: Mhm.
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  S5: So that's just one aspect of sight. You know, Moses
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  S5: says to God, show me your glory.
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  S4: Yeah.
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  S5: Now he's asking God to grant him the capacity to
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  S5: see God as he actually is God. And his grace
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  S5: tells Moses, no one can see me and live. And
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  S5: what God is trying to say to Moses is that
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  S5: I am so wonderful, I'm so glorious, that if you
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  S5: saw me with your physical eyes. Yeah. As I am,
• 19:19
  S5: the joy of seeing me would kill you. You would
• 19:22
  S5: not survive the experience. But they are accommodated ways that
• 19:28
  S5: we are able to see God. We see him in
• 19:30
  S5: the incarnation of the Lord Jesus and we see him
• 19:34
  S5: through the scriptures and the power of the Spirit of God,
• 19:38
  S5: as the Spirit of God Himself opens our eyes to
• 19:41
  S5: understand Scripture in a supernatural manner. This is why you
• 19:46
  S5: can tell it's happened. Have you ever gone to a
• 19:48
  S5: church service alley? And let's be honest, church service starts.
• 19:53
  S5: People are kind of a little grumpy. Maybe. Maybe a
• 19:56
  S5: little withdrawn.
• 19:57
  S2: Yeah.
• 19:57
  S5: But by the time the service is over, everyone's face
• 20:03
  S5: is all aglow with the glory of God. People are smiling.
• 20:07
  S5: People are talking. People are hugging. Well. What happened? They
• 20:11
  S5: saw God.
• 20:12
  S4: Yeah.
• 20:13
  S5: In the service, through the preaching of the Word of God,
• 20:16
  S5: through the ministry of his word and song. And so, yes,
• 20:19
  S5: God will use this. This idea of sensory perception to
• 20:24
  S5: point us to something actually deeper in our relationship with God,
• 20:29
  S5: that we can see him by faith. In some sense,
• 20:33
  S5: Experiences touch not a physical touch, but certainly a touch
• 20:38
  S5: from the Spirit of God. And it would seem to
• 20:41
  S5: me that if anyone has walked with God for any
• 20:43
  S5: length of time, that he or she has experienced these supernatural,
• 20:50
  S5: spirit empowered nudges from God. The sense of touch that
• 20:55
  S5: brings perhaps healing to the mind or. Or an easing
• 21:00
  S5: of the pain after the pain goes away. But we
• 21:03
  S5: somehow experience joy and sorrow and all of this because
• 21:08
  S5: we have been touched by the Lord himself.
• 21:11
  S2: Yeah. I've heard people describe the feeling of like, I
• 21:15
  S2: remember someone sharing a testimony at church, and she said
• 21:19
  S2: it felt she felt a sensation of like a hug,
• 21:22
  S2: like the love of the Lord was like a warm embrace. And,
• 21:26
  S2: you know, Diana even shares her testimony. And she talks
• 21:29
  S2: about the feeling of like a weight, a backpack of
• 21:33
  S2: cement being dropped off of her shoulders. She didn't have
• 21:37
  S2: an actual backpack, but these sensory sort of feelings that
• 21:40
  S2: there was no backpack. There was no actual hug. But
• 21:43
  S2: that warmth and the love, the love of God, the
• 21:47
  S2: supernatural love of God that we don't even often have
• 21:50
  S2: words to describe. Right?
• 21:52
  S5: That's right. And I'm reminded of The Pilgrim's Progress. John
• 21:59
  S5: Bunyan and I ate for a younger generation of Christians
• 22:03
  S5: who have not read Pilgrim's Progress, I would encourage them
• 22:08
  S5: to read it. I believe firmly that every generation of
• 22:12
  S5: Christ followers should read John Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress. There is
• 22:17
  S5: an image, and as he narrates where he comes to
• 22:22
  S5: a cross and he's. He has a burden on his back.
• 22:27
  S5: He's not aware that he has the burden, but he
• 22:31
  S5: becomes aware of it when he's before the cross and
• 22:35
  S5: the burden falls off. And he has that a sense
• 22:39
  S5: of liberty that he didn't have before.
• 22:42
  S2: Yeah.
• 22:42
  S5: Now, when I received Christ as my personal Lord and Savior,
• 22:46
  S5: as you know, at the young age of 19, when
• 22:50
  S5: I trusted Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior, I
• 22:55
  S5: sensed that a burden was lifted off of me. I
• 23:01
  S5: did not realize that I had been carrying the burden
• 23:06
  S5: of guilt, the burden of my sins, the entirety of
• 23:11
  S5: my life. And that burden was lifted when I came
• 23:15
  S5: to know Christ as my personal Lord and Savior. This
• 23:18
  S5: is why Jesus says, come to me, all you who
• 23:21
  S5: are weary and heavy laden, and I will do what
• 23:25
  S5: I will give you rest. So this is something that
• 23:29
  S5: we are able to experience God is to be enjoyed
• 23:35
  S5: in real experience through the power of the Spirit of God.
• 23:41
  S5: It seems to me that the church may have missed
• 23:44
  S5: this because our orientation, especially among conservatives, Christians, our orientation
• 23:52
  S5: is so cognitive.
• 23:54
  S2: Yeah.
• 23:54
  S5: That we miss the fact that God wants us to
• 23:59
  S5: experience him in the power of the Holy Spirit and
• 24:05
  S5: our senses become mirrors, vehicles, clarifying pathways to help us
• 24:15
  S5: understand how we can. Are able to walk with God
• 24:21
  S5: and experience him in the power of the spirit.
• 24:24
  S2: Doctor Winfred Neily, our guest this morning, retired Vice President,
• 24:28
  S2: Dean of Moody Theological Seminary. He has some great resources.
• 24:32
  S2: I want to point you to one of the ones
• 24:34
  S2: that we have featured quite often. Here is how to
• 24:37
  S2: overcome worry. So just text worry to 800 555 7898.
• 24:43
  S2: He also has a new book, out A Love to
• 24:45
  S2: Live By Rediscovering Agape Love in Scripture. You'll find that
• 24:48
  S2: as well. Just text worry to 805 557898.
• 24:53
  S1: You're listening to Carl and Crew on Moody Radio.
• 24:57
  S2: Well, I'm going to take a guess that my guest
• 24:59
  S2: coming up has heard this verse, Ecclesiastes 910. Whatever your
• 25:04
  S2: hands find to do or whatever your hand finds to do,
• 25:07
  S2: do it with all your might. And then it goes on.
• 25:10
  S2: But I'm going to stop there. The work that we
• 25:12
  S2: do with our hands matters to God. Dave Hartog, our
• 25:16
  S2: guest this morning, he's the second generation president and owner
• 25:19
  S2: of Edgerton Gear, a Wisconsin based custom gear manufacturer. He's
• 25:24
  S2: also the author of the book Good Work How Blue
• 25:26
  S2: Collar Business Can change lives, communities and the world. Have
• 25:30
  S2: you heard this verse? Is this one that helps guide
• 25:33
  S2: how you approach work? Or maybe there's something else entirely?
• 25:37
  S6: No, I've heard it once or twice. Yeah, that's actually
• 25:39
  S6: definitely one of my life verses.
• 25:41
  S2: Is it? So tell us a little bit about your story.
• 25:44
  S2: Did you envision that you would one day take over
• 25:47
  S2: the family gear shop and devote your life to that?
• 25:51
  S6: Oh my goodness. No. I grew up in the shop. Um,
• 25:55
  S6: I think I was cheap child labor. Um, my dad
• 25:58
  S6: had me in the shop when I was five years old,
• 26:00
  S6: and I became a journeyman by the time I was 22.
• 26:02
  S6: And I'm like, I'm done. I'm out of here. I've
• 26:05
  S6: had 17 years in the shop. Lord, take me away
• 26:07
  S6: from this. And the funny thing is, you know, I
• 26:09
  S6: had kind of one of those road to Damascus experiences
• 26:11
  S6: where the Lord really got a hold of me, and
• 26:13
  S6: everybody said, oh, you're meant to be a pastor then.
• 26:16
  S6: So I actually did that track, went out to California,
• 26:18
  S6: worked in a megachurch for a bit, and realized, I
• 26:21
  S6: don't want to work in a church. I'm a blue
• 26:22
  S6: collar guy. And the irony is I ended up going
• 26:26
  S6: to Regent College and got a theology degree. And while
• 26:29
  S6: I was there, God said, you need to come back
• 26:31
  S6: to Edgerton gear. And be a blue collar guy in
• 26:34
  S6: a machine shop and see if the gospel and the
• 26:36
  S6: kingdom is relevant, even in a dirty, dark, dangerous, blue
• 26:40
  S6: collar environment. And that was 34 years ago, and I'm
• 26:44
  S6: still here.
• 26:45
  S2: So talk about the what did you discover when you
• 26:49
  S2: were obedient and came back and were looking for. How
• 26:53
  S2: does the gospel. How do. How does my. Maybe my
• 26:55
  S2: pastoral heart. How do I apply that in this context?
• 26:59
  S2: What did you discover?
• 27:00
  S6: I think the big misconception I had is that God
• 27:02
  S6: doesn't care about blue collar work. He doesn't care about gears.
• 27:05
  S6: He doesn't care about our physical environment. And being back
• 27:09
  S6: here with a pastor's heart with for my employees, I
• 27:13
  S6: had that theological perspective like, yeah, I need to help
• 27:16
  S6: lead people in relationship with Christ, right? But does God
• 27:19
  S6: really care about our work? Does he care about plumbers
• 27:21
  S6: and electricians and how we build stuff and do stuff?
• 27:24
  S6: And I realized over the years that our gears literally
• 27:27
  S6: help run the world. I mean, literally, they're shipped all
• 27:31
  S6: over the world. Modern civilization would not exist without gear makers,
• 27:35
  S6: without plumbers, electricians, without carpenters. And I think the funniest
• 27:39
  S6: illustration I could come up with is that during Covid,
• 27:42
  S6: there's the toilet paper shortage and everybody is freaking out
• 27:44
  S6: about toilet paper.
• 27:45
  S2: Yes.
• 27:45
  S6: Right. Well, I often tell people when I speak, you know,
• 27:49
  S6: our gears have probably touched you in a very intimate
• 27:52
  S6: way this morning because our gears help make the machines
• 27:56
  S6: that make toilet paper, right? So even in that little way,
• 28:00
  S6: our gears touch the world in very, very practical and
• 28:04
  S6: relevant ways.
• 28:05
  S2: So what makes work good? The title of your book,
• 28:09
  S2: Good Work. A lot of times we can have, you know,
• 28:12
  S2: the job is the thing that we have to do
• 28:15
  S2: to pay the bills. A lot of people kind of
• 28:16
  S2: have that approach to it. You know, maybe if you
• 28:19
  S2: work in ministry, you can have some sort of a
• 28:22
  S2: higher calling where you view your work in light of,
• 28:26
  S2: you know, building the kingdom. But many people view this
• 28:28
  S2: is the 9 to 5. This is the thing that
• 28:30
  S2: I do so that I can pay bills and then
• 28:33
  S2: I'm on to other things. Why is that the wrong
• 28:35
  S2: way to view work?
• 28:37
  S6: Well, I think simply God's ultimate virtue is goodness. God
• 28:43
  S6: is good. And I think it's so simple. We overlook
• 28:46
  S6: the relevancy of that because you doing your job today,
• 28:50
  S6: if you didn't show up on time, if you weren't
• 28:53
  S6: disciplined in what you do, if you didn't do it
• 28:55
  S6: with a level of integrity and excellence, you wouldn't have
• 28:58
  S6: a job. And not only that, if I make bad gears,
• 29:01
  S6: if I don't make them right the first time, get
• 29:04
  S6: them to the customer when they need them and make
• 29:07
  S6: them so they fit the gears fall apart, the machine
• 29:09
  S6: doesn't work. And so the sense of goodness has to
• 29:12
  S6: permeate literally everything that we do. And there is a
• 29:16
  S6: moral order to the universe that is so practical that we,
• 29:20
  S6: we don't wake up in the morning and go, gee,
• 29:21
  S6: I hope I have a bad day. We want to
• 29:23
  S6: have a good date. We want our kids to go
• 29:24
  S6: to good schools. We want this goodness to permeate every
• 29:28
  S6: part of our society. And so that comes down to
• 29:31
  S6: the very, very practical level in every decision that we
• 29:34
  S6: make throughout the day, how we treat people, how we
• 29:36
  S6: do our job. I often say at the Kingdom of
• 29:39
  S6: God comes through two things. It comes through the quality
• 29:42
  S6: of our work and the quality of our relationships. And
• 29:45
  S6: so when we can do that every day in our jobs,
• 29:48
  S6: that is very, very powerful. We are living out the
• 29:51
  S6: kingdom of God when we do that.
• 29:52
  S2: You know, when you think about blue collar work, I
• 29:55
  S2: think we're at a time specifically now, maybe more so
• 29:58
  S2: than before, where when people talk about what they want
• 30:01
  S2: to be when they grow up, many people point to
• 30:05
  S2: different types of work, more creative work, um, wanting to
• 30:10
  S2: aspire to many different types of things. What have you
• 30:13
  S2: discovered in blue collar work that maybe gets overlooked?
• 30:18
  S6: Well, I think it connects our hearts with our hands.
• 30:21
  S6: And I think being in any of the trades in manufacturing,
• 30:25
  S6: we bring a level of creativity and responsibility and joy
• 30:29
  S6: to our work that engages the entire person. And I
• 30:32
  S6: think that's what's often overlooked. I can look at the
• 30:35
  S6: end of the day at what we create and go, wow,
• 30:37
  S6: that's good. And didn't God say that when he created
• 30:41
  S6: the universe in chapter one? Right. It is good. And
• 30:44
  S6: so at the end of every day, we can look
• 30:45
  S6: back and go, look what we accomplished. Look how my
• 30:48
  S6: creativity godness in me poured out and help me create
• 30:52
  S6: and join God. And and really, we're called to be co-creators.
• 30:55
  S6: And that's how it's lived out. And we work with
• 30:57
  S6: our hands.
• 30:58
  S2: How do you encourage people who think of themselves maybe
• 31:02
  S2: as lesser than or that their job, you know, in
• 31:05
  S2: the hierarchy of how people view the importance of jobs
• 31:08
  S2: or the success, you know, being a doctor or a lawyer,
• 31:13
  S2: you know, not to just broad brush, but how would
• 31:16
  S2: you encourage people who feel like my job kind of
• 31:19
  S2: puts me on a, on a lower in a lower
• 31:21
  S2: place in the view of society than maybe others.
• 31:25
  S6: Well, I think we have to go back, first of all,
• 31:27
  S6: and say what Jesus could have come as anybody. And
• 31:30
  S6: what did he come as a tradesman, a craftsman? And
• 31:33
  S6: so this ridiculous notion that some jobs are more important
• 31:37
  S6: than others is just flat out wrong. And I teach
• 31:41
  S6: a lot of kids through our craftsmen with character course,
• 31:44
  S6: introducing young people to the world of trades and manufacturing.
• 31:47
  S6: And I tell them, you are some of the smartest
• 31:48
  S6: people on the planet. You may not be book smart,
• 31:51
  S6: you may not do well in school, but a lot
• 31:53
  S6: of these kids can take apart a diesel engine, put
• 31:55
  S6: it back together. They can do incredibly creative, practical things.
• 31:59
  S6: And so this hierarchy of jobs, you know, and isn't
• 32:02
  S6: it interesting, we kind of have that same perspective in church,
• 32:04
  S6: don't we?
• 32:04
  S2: Yes.
• 32:05
  S6: That's a good point. Pastors, missionaries, right. They are more
• 32:08
  S6: spiritual than those of us who aren't pastors and missionaries
• 32:11
  S6: and teaching Sunday school. The reality is we're all important
• 32:14
  S6: in God's eyes. We're all important.
• 32:16
  S2: Tell me a little bit more about the course that
• 32:18
  S2: you're teaching. I'm curious, do you have a story that
• 32:21
  S2: you can share? You mentioned working with young people, kind
• 32:24
  S2: of introducing them to the trades.
• 32:26
  S6: Yeah. So Ronnie and Edgerton gear for the last 30
• 32:29
  S6: some years, we're in the same boat as a lot
• 32:31
  S6: of manufacturers and people in the trades where there's just
• 32:33
  S6: a hiring crisis. Our society has done such a horrible
• 32:36
  S6: job of affirming, you know, blue collar work, and we're
• 32:40
  S6: telling everybody that they need to go get a four
• 32:41
  S6: year university, which is right for some people. But the
• 32:44
  S6: reality is we've lost an entire generation of students who
• 32:47
  S6: often should have gone into the trades. But a lot
• 32:49
  S6: of high schools across the country eliminated or greatly reduced
• 32:53
  S6: their tech ed departments. So back in the 90s, we
• 32:56
  S6: started realizing this is turning into a crisis. So in
• 32:58
  S6: my own company, we're trying to figure out how do
• 33:01
  S6: we get young people coming in to replace a demographic
• 33:04
  S6: that's aging out the boomer generation? We're aging out of
• 33:07
  S6: our businesses. So I had a wild idea. One of
• 33:10
  S6: my mentors said, hey, I want you to come back
• 33:12
  S6: to school to get a doctorate, which that's funny in
• 33:14
  S6: itself because I'm not an academic, but I was trying
• 33:17
  S6: to solve this issue. Why don't we have young people
• 33:19
  S6: coming in, and how do we mentor them in really
• 33:22
  S6: relevant ways? And dozen years ago, I came up with
• 33:26
  S6: this course called craftsman with Character. And basically it's four
• 33:30
  S6: days a week where the kids get to job shadow
• 33:32
  S6: in our different local businesses. And one day a week
• 33:34
  S6: we do character development. We deconstruct their worldview and give
• 33:37
  S6: them a worldview, and we build it off of this
• 33:40
  S6: thing called the craftsman code, which is, number one. I'm
• 33:43
  S6: not the center of the universe. Number two, I don't
• 33:45
  S6: know everything or nearly as much as I think I do.
• 33:48
  S6: And it goes down this list. And number four is
• 33:51
  S6: the world needs me. And that's a message that a
• 33:53
  S6: lot of these young people have not heard. And so
• 33:56
  S6: we ran it in our shop 12 years ago. Ten students,
• 34:00
  S6: five of them are still with me. And since then,
• 34:03
  S6: the US Navy got Ahold of our program and they
• 34:06
  S6: asked us and they gave us a three year grant
• 34:07
  S6: to expand it. So now we're in seven states. We're
• 34:10
  S6: in numerous communities. And just last week, ironically, I announced
• 34:15
  S6: that I'm making all that content free online. And so
• 34:18
  S6: if people want to know how they can implement it
• 34:20
  S6: in their community or in their business, sign in. Because
• 34:23
  S6: the transformation we've seen in young people who are often
• 34:26
  S6: lost and looking for opportunity, and they've been misguided in saying, well,
• 34:31
  S6: I'm not an academic person, but I love working with
• 34:33
  S6: my hands. Is there a future for me? And in
• 34:35
  S6: a way, it's the gospel in blue collar terms, that
• 34:38
  S6: that's not exactly what.
• 34:40
  S2: I was thinking.
• 34:41
  S6: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's amazing to see these kids
• 34:44
  S6: turn around. I have a problem right now in my
• 34:47
  S6: business that I have too many young people. We are
• 34:48
  S6: almost overstaffed. And I don't know how many manufacturers that
• 34:52
  S6: can say that we hired, I think, five, 18 year
• 34:55
  S6: olds this last year. That's a challenge that many 18
• 35:00
  S6: year olds in your own business, but wonderful young people
• 35:04
  S6: who want to be mentored, who want a profession, who
• 35:06
  S6: want to know that they can make a difference and
• 35:08
  S6: have a purpose in life.
• 35:09
  S2: I love that because, you know, Karl often says that
• 35:12
  S2: all truth is God's truth. He repeats that often. And
• 35:15
  S2: so when you when you talk about those kind of
• 35:17
  S2: those core values or I'm not sure the exact language
• 35:20
  S2: you use, but the, the kind of that code. I'm
• 35:23
  S2: not the center of the universe. And we think about
• 35:25
  S2: our spiritual giftings like the body of Christ needs me.
• 35:29
  S2: Like we don't kind of exist in isolation. Thank you
• 35:32
  S2: so much, Dave. This was a real pleasure. I really
• 35:34
  S2: appreciate the work that you are doing with your hands
• 35:37
  S2: and training others. If you want more, and we're going
• 35:40
  S2: to include a link to the website, just text good
• 35:42
  S2: to 805 557898, good to (800) 555-7898.
• 35:50
  S1: Tune in whenever you like. Check out the Carl and
• 35:53
  S1: Crew podcast wherever you like to stream.
• 35:57
  S2: Well, good Monday morning. Let's start off with a quiz.
• 36:00
  S3: Wow, you're gonna wake us up after a weekend like that.
• 36:04
  S2: Do you remember when the teacher would say that in
• 36:06
  S2: like in class? Yeah, we're gonna start off today with
• 36:10
  S2: a quiz and there would be a collective, uh.
• 36:13
  S4: So I.
• 36:15
  S2: Don't want to bring up those kind of memories, but
• 36:17
  S2: I do want to quiz my team.
• 36:20
  S3: Okay.
• 36:20
  S2: We're going to be talking about the five senses this week.
• 36:23
  S4: Okay.
• 36:24
  S2: I think you're going to enjoy these conversations. I know
• 36:26
  S2: I'm looking forward to them. Jonathan. Pop quiz five senses.
• 36:30
  S2: No looking it up. Give them to me.
• 36:32
  S3: Okay. Sight, hearing. Smell, taste and touch.
• 36:38
  S2: There you go. See? You passed.
• 36:40
  S3: I'm smart.
• 36:40
  S4: You got the easy question.
• 36:42
  S2: That was easy.
• 36:42
  S4: Enough. Whatever.
• 36:43
  S2: Who was the one?
• 36:44
  S3: You haven't even gotten a question. Do you know what
• 36:45
  S3: your question could be easier.
• 36:46
  S2: One question. Quiz. So here. Here's a fun, maybe quirky
• 36:51
  S2: thing about me. Yes. My sense of, well, is what.
• 36:57
  S3: We know.
• 36:58
  S2: This is.
• 36:59
  S3: Overpowered.
• 37:00
  S4: We're so well informed on that one.
• 37:03
  S2: Okay. So I have such a strong sense of smell. Yes.
• 37:09
  S2: And it is not always. It's not always. It doesn't
• 37:13
  S2: always feel like a gift. I got to tell you this,
• 37:16
  S2: as you're just moving out and about, sometimes being able
• 37:19
  S2: to smell at a level that feels like I should
• 37:22
  S2: be studied.
• 37:25
  S4: Should be studied.
• 37:26
  S2: So sometimes, and so I, I drive my husband a
• 37:31
  S2: little bit crazy because like he had like a, this
• 37:35
  S2: air freshener for his car. And I got in the
• 37:37
  S2: car and I was like, oh, no. Oh, this is not.
• 37:40
  S4: Going, that's not gonna work.
• 37:41
  S2: He's like, what? I don't smell anything. I was like,
• 37:43
  S2: did you switch up the car air freshener? He was like, well, yeah,
• 37:47
  S2: but it's I said, it's overpowering. I can't, I can't,
• 37:49
  S2: I can't take it. And so I become hangry is
• 37:53
  S2: what you call people when they get angry, when they're hungry.
• 37:56
  S2: I don't know what the word is. When people become angry, angry.
• 38:00
  S4: Angry, angry.
• 38:03
  S2: Angry people become angry with certain smells. That would be
• 38:07
  S2: me angry. We'll go with that.
• 38:09
  S3: Yeah.
• 38:10
  S2: We've we've had times. Hey, full disclosure, we've had times.
• 38:13
  S2: We've had guests in studio.
• 38:17
  S4: And their Cologne.
• 38:18
  S2: Cologne or perfume was so overpowering to me.
• 38:22
  S3: Yeah. You've had to go take breaks after interviews.
• 38:24
  S2: I've actually. And then I'm like, over there peeling oranges,
• 38:28
  S2: trying to get. Because natural sense I can do a
• 38:31
  S2: little bit better. Like the smell of a natural flower
• 38:33
  S2: or an actual lemon or orange. But the minute we
• 38:36
  S2: get artificial oranges, lemons, flowers.
• 38:40
  S3: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:41
  S4: I hear you. Yeah.
• 38:43
  S2: People on airplanes sometimes who are eating certain types of food.
• 38:47
  S3: Oh, airplane would be bad because, I mean, what are
• 38:48
  S3: you gonna do?
• 38:49
  S7: I'm like, come on. Sit. You do grin and bear it.
• 38:51
  S2: We needed a chili cheese dog with onion rings right now.
• 38:55
  S4: Right now.
• 38:56
  S3: There is. There is airplane etiquette. Yes. You have to.
• 38:59
  S3: You can't get on an airplane with just anything.
• 39:02
  S2: Is there anyone else who has a overpowering sense of
• 39:06
  S2: smell where you just smell everything? I know that I'm
• 39:08
  S2: not alone in this because I actually have like scent allergies.
• 39:13
  S2: So certain smells just send me through the roof. But Jonathan,
• 39:16
  S2: you your sniffer?
• 39:18
  S3: No, in all honesty, my nose isn't that great. Uh, really?
• 39:22
  S3: I don't have a strong sense of smell on most things. Uh,
• 39:26
  S3: my wife, though, is, you know, almost full eight months
• 39:29
  S3: pregnant right now. And her her sense of smell is
• 39:33
  S3: so strong.
• 39:34
  S4: I would say high alert.
• 39:35
  S3: And I mean, that's hard. I can't run around outside
• 39:39
  S3: for five minutes and, and have myself not, like, stank
• 39:43
  S3: in her eyes because her sense of smell so strong.
• 39:46
  S2: You step.
• 39:47
  S4: Outside.
• 39:47
  S3: And go, yeah, I did my bad.
• 39:49
  S4: I know where you went.
• 39:51
  S2: So what about you, strong sniffer? Or maybe some other
• 39:53
  S2: sense that you have some people or touch people. They
• 39:57
  S2: can't take the certain fabrics.
• 39:59
  S4: And no, I'm okay. And then like sniffing is fine.
• 40:01
  S4: Probably probably hearing because most of my career, so much
• 40:04
  S4: of hearing. Oh yeah. Like bigger noises do mesh out.
• 40:08
  S4: Like I've lost part of that hearing. Like, say, a concert,
• 40:11
  S4: that kind of noise becomes white noise. But little things,
• 40:14
  S4: especially when I'm editing, I'll hear things and people are like,
• 40:17
  S4: I didn't. What do you what.
• 40:18
  S2: Did you hear that pin drop?
• 40:20
  S4: Did you hear that? Dang, there was a ting. She
• 40:22
  S4: smacked her lips or whatever. I'm editing. And people are like,
• 40:24
  S4: very true. Okay. You're crazy. What did you hear? I'm like, yeah.
• 40:29
  S2: This is going to be such a fun week. We're
• 40:31
  S2: going to be talking about the five senses, the fun stuff.
• 40:34
  S2: Also the maybe some things you didn't know. And then
• 40:37
  S2: looking at the way we see the senses described in Scripture,
• 40:41
  S2: if you start to look for it, what you see,
• 40:44
  S2: what you touch, what you taste, what you. Which 1 a.m.
• 40:47
  S2: I missing?
• 40:48
  S3: Smell.
• 40:49
  S2: Smell that's there too. Yes, all five of them in Scripture.
• 40:54
  S2: Once you start looking for it, it's going to be
• 40:56
  S2: a great week here on Carl and Crew.
• 40:58
  S1: She's a choreographer extraordinaire and everything is Greek to her.
• 41:03
  S1: Super di is in the crew. It's Carl and crew
• 41:06
  S1: on Moody Radio.
• 41:10
  S2: You're listening to Carly Crew here on this Monday morning.
• 41:13
  S2: I want you to think about your job. What kind
• 41:15
  S2: of senses do you most employ when you are doing
• 41:20
  S2: your job? Jonathan.
• 41:23
  S3: Uh, I guess probably sight and sound would be would
• 41:27
  S3: be the biggest ones.
• 41:28
  S7: Really?
• 41:29
  S3: Yeah. Because.
• 41:30
  S2: Okay, I thought another one would be first.
• 41:33
  S3: Interesting. Okay, I, I'll explain why I think and then
• 41:36
  S3: I want to hear because I genuinely don't know. Uh,
• 41:39
  S3: I mean, yeah, I guess touch, but I feel like
• 41:41
  S3: everyone's got touch because you're touching, you gotta touch stuff
• 41:44
  S3: to do work. Uh, but for me, sight and sound,
• 41:47
  S3: I've got five screens in front of me and how
• 41:51
  S3: many faders? 18 faders. Uh, and that's not all the
• 41:55
  S3: buttons I hit on here.
• 41:57
  S4: And so which are the buttons on the boards?
• 41:59
  S7: Yeah.
• 42:00
  S3: Exactly. So I have to look at a lot of
• 42:01
  S3: things and I have to listen to a lot of things.
• 42:03
  S3: I really have to make sure I'm dialed in with
• 42:05
  S3: where you and Carl are at in certain conversations so
• 42:09
  S3: that I can do the next thing.
• 42:10
  S2: That's fair. I defaulted to.
• 42:14
  S7: Touch.
• 42:14
  S2: No touch for you because you spend. You are the.
• 42:18
  S2: You push the buttons.
• 42:19
  S7: Yeah. That's fair.
• 42:20
  S4: Okay.
• 42:21
  S3: I think touch, but I think I just kind of
• 42:22
  S3: defaulted touch out because everyone touches things for work.
• 42:27
  S2: I guess so. Super di, would yours be the same?
• 42:30
  S4: Exactly. Yeah. Sight and sound were the first two that
• 42:32
  S4: popped into my head for sure.
• 42:33
  S3: How about you?
• 42:34
  S2: I mean, I talk a lot, but I guess that's
• 42:37
  S2: not a sense.
• 42:38
  S3: No. Yeah, that's not a sense.
• 42:40
  S2: I have to listen to myself.
• 42:42
  S7: Talk to myself.
• 42:44
  S2: So hearing. Yeah. And then I've got a. I have
• 42:47
  S2: to really listen, especially with Carl and I. Carl and
• 42:50
  S2: I have worked together for almost nine years now. And
• 42:53
  S2: so I listen, I'm always listening very closely to what, uh,
• 42:58
  S2: what I'm hearing him say, what I think he might
• 43:01
  S2: say next.
• 43:02
  S7: Where I a lot of anticipation.
• 43:04
  S2: Yeah. So I probably listening even more than site. I'm
• 43:08
  S2: I'm listening a lot in the mornings, maybe even more
• 43:11
  S2: than I'm talking.
• 43:12
  S4: And we're all looking at each other for visual cues
• 43:14
  S4: and things like that as we're staring at each other,
• 43:16
  S4: like who's text, who wants to talk next? Yeah, things
• 43:18
  S4: like that.
• 43:19
  S2: So it'd be fun to have a job where like
• 43:21
  S2: you where you're using taste.
• 43:24
  S7: That'd be a good job.
• 43:25
  S2: Like I guess if you were like a, a chef,
• 43:27
  S2: so you'd be using your hand, your sense of touch, but.
• 43:31
  S7: You could get like.
• 43:32
  S3: A part time job in like a test kitchen for
• 43:34
  S3: a restaurant.
• 43:35
  S7: For chick fil A for.
• 43:36
  S3: Chick. Yeah. Put me in chick fil A's test.
• 43:37
  S7: Kitchen.
• 43:38
  S3: And just let me do that part time. I'm down.
• 43:41
  S2: We've got this new sandwich being unveiled.
• 43:43
  S3: I'm your.
• 43:44
  S7: Guy.
• 43:45
  S4: Bring in Jonathan.
• 43:46
  S7: It's really good.
• 43:47
  S3: They go, you can't just tell us. It's really good.
• 43:49
  S3: Every time I go.
• 43:50
  S7: It is so good.
• 43:51
  S2: We're talking about the five senses here on Carl and
• 43:54
  S2: crew coming up. We're going to shift to talk about
• 43:56
  S2: the job that you do. What senses do you employ
• 44:00
  S2: and how do you glorify God with what you do
• 44:03
  S2: as you work with your hands?