Latest / The Bolt Report / The Bolt Report | 10 March

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The Bolt Report | 10 March · The Bolt Report

0:11
Speaker 1: It's the gold reform It tonight seriously pitted up an
0:16
Speaker 1: attacked by Labor for leaving Queensland for one evening four
0:20
Speaker 1: days before ex cyclone Alfred hit Is this really Labour's best?
0:25
Speaker 1: Shock me? While the terrible news that Donald Trump and
0:28
Speaker 1: his team have given us about our defense politicians should
0:31
Speaker 1: be freaking and acting, where are they that crisis coming up?
0:35
Speaker 1: And Trump's attack on Malcolm Turnbull for the first time,
0:39
Speaker 1: Maybe what's wrong with me Turbull might not be all wrong.
0:44
Speaker 1: Also tonight a great myth about the stolen generations exploded
0:48
Speaker 1: as a man goes through the papers of his grandparents
0:51
Speaker 1: who were there and saw the truth and the ABC
0:55
Speaker 1: at Taxistray and War Memorial. Of course it would just
0:59
Speaker 1: when we would be praying there are still young Australians
1:02
Speaker 1: thinking this country is worth fighting for. The first the
1:05
Speaker 1: caravan bomb plot against Sydney's Great Synagogue, it's not. There's
1:12
Speaker 1: nothing of the kind. The caravan filled with explosive dump
1:15
Speaker 1: by the side of the road in dural and January,
1:18
Speaker 1: but the list of Jewish targets conveniently left inside. I
1:21
Speaker 1: didn't tell you that was a bit odd. New South
1:24
Speaker 1: as a federal police today said all fake Muslims had
1:29
Speaker 1: been falsely accused. This and fourteen others supposedly anti Semitic
1:34
Speaker 1: attacks in Sydney were actually the work of an organized
1:36
Speaker 1: crime gain.
1:39
Speaker 2: Almost immediately, experienced investigators within the Joint Counterterrorism Team believed
1:44
Speaker 2: that the caravan was part of a fabricated terrorist plot,
1:48
Speaker 2: essentially a criminal conjob. This was because of the information
1:52
Speaker 2: they already had, how easily the caravan was found, and
1:56
Speaker 2: how visible the explosives were in the caravan, so there
2:00
Speaker 2: was no detonator.
2:03
Speaker 1: Now, apparently this was all organized by a convicted criminal
2:07
Speaker 1: or criminals plural thinking, we will tell the police about
2:11
Speaker 1: this terrible anti Jewish plot, all these plots ones we
2:15
Speaker 1: actually invented and get a better deal in the courts
2:18
Speaker 1: or jail.
2:20
Speaker 2: We believe the person pulling the strings wanted changes to
2:24
Speaker 2: their criminal status that maintained a distance from their scheme,
2:27
Speaker 2: and hired alleged local criminals to carry out parts of
2:31
Speaker 2: their plan.
2:32
Speaker 3: These organized crime figures have taken an opportunity to play
2:38
Speaker 3: on the vulnerability of the Jewish community.
2:41
Speaker 1: But New Southwest Police this morning conducted rays arrested another
2:44
Speaker 1: fourteen people allegedly involved in the caravan plot, another alleged
2:47
Speaker 1: anti Semitic incidents in Sydney that were investigated by Straight
2:50
Speaker 1: First Force Perl, like car burnings and vandalism.
2:55
Speaker 3: None of the individuals we have arrested during Pearl have
2:57
Speaker 3: displayed any form of anti semit ideology. However, the threats
3:02
Speaker 3: to the community through the use of arson and the
3:04
Speaker 3: presence of explosives was very real. I understand the acts
3:09
Speaker 3: of these incidents have had on the Jewish community, who
3:12
Speaker 3: we have been in constant contact with.
3:16
Speaker 1: So Jews aren't the only victims here. So were Australia's Muslims.
3:21
Speaker 1: They were made scapegoasts by criminal games exploiting the anti
3:25
Speaker 1: Semitism that has just erupted here since the October seven
3:30
Speaker 1: terror tax on Jews. Look, there have been anti Semitic
3:32
Speaker 1: at tax Bone Muslims. They've been anti Semitism that's been
3:37
Speaker 1: whipped up by Muslim hate preachers, but many of these
3:40
Speaker 1: more spectacular ones were not part of that. That's it.
3:44
Speaker 1: We haven't been told which game was allegedly responsible. We're
3:48
Speaker 1: told it includes people based overseas, and i'd say suggest again,
3:52
Speaker 1: although I do not know that puts into the frame.
3:56
Speaker 1: As I've said, before the games, behind attax on two
3:59
Speaker 1: hundred tobacco shops around the country, the fire bombings to
4:01
Speaker 1: control the legal tobacco trade. These gangs do have leaders
4:04
Speaker 1: overseas do use similar firebombing tactics. There's a link I
4:09
Speaker 1: can't perhaps discuss on air, and it must be said
4:15
Speaker 1: they are more often than not run by Muslim gangster
4:17
Speaker 1: So though clearly not all absolutely not all man in
4:20
Speaker 1: a way, today, yes, does have some good news. We
4:25
Speaker 1: do have a significant problem with anti Semitism, but the
4:29
Speaker 1: most violent examples of that were thankfully fake.
4:35
Speaker 3: I think that some comfort to be taken by the
4:37
Speaker 3: Jewish community that it's not numerous people out there conducting
4:42
Speaker 3: the severity of the tacks we saw in relation to
4:45
Speaker 3: what happened in the Ears and suburbs, the fourteen incidents
4:48
Speaker 3: that escalated in relation to the attacks on the new
4:51
Speaker 3: Town Synagogue, the Yellow Synagogue, the fire bombings of cars.
4:57
Speaker 1: That is a very small.
4:59
Speaker 3: Group and potentially one individual behind all those matters, which
5:04
Speaker 3: I think the community should take some comfort in. Our
5:09
Speaker 3: fears and our troubles have been exploited, and this is
5:14
Speaker 3: a warning to us all. Now to the huge story
5:21
Speaker 3: that almost no one's actually touching. It's not that faffing
5:26
Speaker 3: around about how.
5:26
Speaker 1: Opportunity you Peter Dutton skip down to Sydney for a
5:29
Speaker 1: fundraising dinner four days before excyclone Alfred hit his state
5:33
Speaker 1: of Queensland. Oh, labour's been in hysterics about that, the
5:37
Speaker 1: scandal which is crazy. I mean Dutton isn't even in government.
5:40
Speaker 1: What was he expected to do in those days before
5:43
Speaker 1: the x cyclone? And I underline x cyclone hit? Do
5:48
Speaker 1: you even know the press conference may be? I mean,
5:52
Speaker 1: labor sure has got press conferences covered. I got a
5:56
Speaker 1: question for you. How many labor politicians can you squeeze
6:01
Speaker 1: onto a small stage in Lizmore to say that floods
6:05
Speaker 1: are bad and victims could get a hand out for
6:06
Speaker 1: their losses. Let's count how many the local labor in
6:10
Speaker 1: Pea could pack on the stage today say hello, Hello,
6:12
Speaker 1: we're here, We're here.
6:15
Speaker 4: I'd like to welcome our Prime Minister Anthony ALBINIZI here
6:19
Speaker 4: to Lizmore on a return visit. And I can say
6:23
Speaker 4: it's really pleasing for me and the whole community to
6:26
Speaker 4: have the Prime Minister here, particularly given the things that
6:30
Speaker 4: we've gone through with this flood event, also with the
6:34
Speaker 4: Prime Minister is the Deputy Prime Minister Miles. We also
6:38
Speaker 4: have Special Envoy Tony Sheldon. We have the Minister for
6:42
Speaker 4: Emergency Management Australia, Jenny McAllister. Also we have here too
6:48
Speaker 4: state ministers, Ministers Sharp and Minister Jackson. We have Kevin Hogan,
6:53
Speaker 4: federal MP.
6:54
Speaker 1: For Paige astonishing an a shovel or a brow between them.
7:01
Speaker 1: Do you think at least one or two of those
7:04
Speaker 1: labor politicians could have been more useful behind their desk
7:07
Speaker 1: actually organizing stuff. Now you did see there the defensemans
7:12
Speaker 1: that Richard Males. I know what he could have been
7:15
Speaker 1: doing instead, because let me start on what really really
7:19
Speaker 1: needs saying today. And these politicians acting on Donald Trump,
7:26
Speaker 1: the US presidents now changed the game for Australia. And
7:28
Speaker 1: it's like wakey, wakey time. We cannot rely anymore on
7:33
Speaker 1: Americans to come save us in a war. In fact,
7:36
Speaker 1: we can't even rely on America not to grab back
7:38
Speaker 1: the nuclear submarines we're paying America to build in which
7:41
Speaker 1: we desperately need. Here's the US President's pick for Under
7:45
Speaker 1: Secretary of Defense for policy is evidence that the Senate
7:49
Speaker 1: Armed Service Committee last week warning the US might need
7:53
Speaker 1: to take back our submarines for itself for a war
7:58
Speaker 1: against China very soon.
8:01
Speaker 5: But the problem is is that we are, as you know,
8:03
Speaker 5: Secretary Rubio has said in others, there's a very real
8:05
Speaker 5: threat of a conflict in the coming years, God forbid
8:07
Speaker 5: over along the first island chain, and our attack submarines,
8:10
Speaker 5: as you know well, Senator, are absolutely essential for making
8:14
Speaker 5: the defense of Taiwan or otherwise a viable and practical option.
8:17
Speaker 5: To my conversation with Sender Cotton, so if we can
8:21
Speaker 5: produce the attack submarines in sufficient number and sufficient speed,
8:24
Speaker 5: then great. But if we can't, that becomes a very
8:27
Speaker 5: difficult problem because we don't want our servicemen and women
8:30
Speaker 5: to be in a weaker position and more vulnerable, and
8:33
Speaker 5: God forbid worse if because they're not in the right
8:36
Speaker 5: place in the right time.
8:38
Speaker 1: That's one thing. There's no guarantee we'll actually get those
8:40
Speaker 1: submarines we're paying for. But he is the second. Would
8:44
Speaker 1: Donald Trump even want to rescue us if China say,
8:49
Speaker 1: cut us off with the blockades maybe a part of
8:51
Speaker 1: the wider war on Taiwan. I want to show you
8:54
Speaker 1: how little Donald Trump actually kiss for rescuing any country
8:57
Speaker 1: but his own Some of this, I have to say,
8:59
Speaker 1: is shocking to me. Now, you may think that attitude
9:03
Speaker 1: is actually good, you may think it's bad. Whatever, let's
9:07
Speaker 1: just deal with the reality. In the past week, Trump
9:11
Speaker 1: has cut military aid to Ukraine, which is a democracy
9:14
Speaker 1: fighting for its life for three years now against an
9:17
Speaker 1: invading army for Russia. He has also cut US intelligence
9:20
Speaker 1: to Ukraine. Intelligence Ukraine needs to warn it of incoming
9:25
Speaker 1: Russian missiles and to give it army coordinates to hit
9:29
Speaker 1: Russian targets right back. Inevitable has now happened. Russia has
9:34
Speaker 1: stepped up its bombing of Ukrainian cities as Friday, hitting
9:38
Speaker 1: seven apartment buildings in one eastern city alone, killing at
9:41
Speaker 1: least eleven people. Also, the Ukrainian army that had captured
9:45
Speaker 1: part of Russian territory to hopefully spot for Ukrainian territory
9:48
Speaker 1: captured by Russia is now blinded lack of intelligence. It's
9:52
Speaker 1: in danger of being cut off by Russian forces. It
9:55
Speaker 1: can't now get the targeting information it needs to attack.
10:00
Speaker 1: But Donald Trump says this is actually his plan. Do you,
10:04
Speaker 1: as a.
10:04
Speaker 6: President, think that Vladimir Putin is taking advantage of the
10:08
Speaker 6: US pause right now on intelligence and military aids in Ukraine.
10:12
Speaker 1: I actually think he's doing what anybody else would do.
10:15
Speaker 1: I think he's.
10:18
Speaker 5: I think he wants to get it stopped and settled,
10:20
Speaker 5: and I think he's hitting.
10:21
Speaker 1: Him harder than he's been hitting him. And I think
10:25
Speaker 1: probably anybody in that position would be doing that. So
10:29
Speaker 1: it seems very clear that Trump's plan is to end
10:33
Speaker 1: this war by forcing democratic Ukraine to stop fighting in
10:38
Speaker 1: its defense against the invading Russian tyranny.
10:42
Speaker 3: Russia is pounding Ukraine, that's right.
10:45
Speaker 6: Why not provide Ukraine with ear defenses?
10:48
Speaker 4: And what happens, mister President, when Ukraine runs out of it?
10:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a good question because I have to know
10:55
Speaker 3: that they want to settle.
10:58
Speaker 1: Never mind passed the mayor can guarantees like in nineteen
11:01
Speaker 1: ninety one, it agreed to guarantee Ukraine's safety if Ukraine
11:05
Speaker 1: handed Russia it's nuclear weapons from the Soviety. Euro Russia
11:10
Speaker 1: was a full to believe it. But there's more. You
11:13
Speaker 1: also see Trump attacking allies. Last week, he smashed Canada
11:17
Speaker 1: with this twenty five percent tariff, told them to become
11:19
Speaker 1: America's fifty first state. You also dismissed the NATO security
11:23
Speaker 1: pack between Europe, Canada, and the US where they guarantee
11:26
Speaker 1: to come to each other's rescue if one of them's attacked.
11:31
Speaker 1: We said, we got a problem, France, we got a
11:35
Speaker 1: problem a couple of others. At what match? Do you
11:40
Speaker 1: think they're going to come and protect us they're supposed to.
11:45
Speaker 1: I'm not so sure what's he talking about. In fact,
11:49
Speaker 1: the only time, the only time that that NATO guarantee
11:53
Speaker 1: of mutual self defense was invoked was to help America
11:58
Speaker 1: after the nine to eleven attack. European countries, like France,
12:02
Speaker 1: they did join America in the evasion and the occupation
12:05
Speaker 1: of Aghani Standing to get rid of the Taliban. Even
12:10
Speaker 1: Ukraine sent soldiers to help America in Afghanistan. Cai, you
12:12
Speaker 1: believe that, even though it wasn't even in NATO, Ukraine
12:16
Speaker 1: sent soldiers. Did you hear Trump saying thank you, showing respect?
12:22
Speaker 1: But it gets even worse. Trump says he won't defend
12:26
Speaker 1: NATO countries. Won't defend even NATO countries that don't pay
12:29
Speaker 1: enough for their own defense. If they don't pay, I'm
12:32
Speaker 1: not going to defend them now. In one sense, that
12:37
Speaker 1: sounds could sound reasonable and there's a strong point that
12:41
Speaker 1: it's making. But that Trump official that I showed you
12:44
Speaker 1: at the top about the submarines, he said Australia doesn't
12:48
Speaker 1: pay enough either. He said last week Australia should be
12:51
Speaker 1: spending fifty percent more on our defense than we do already.
12:54
Speaker 1: Fifty percent more of course, yes, a point in fact,
13:00
Speaker 1: our own forces are so weak now they couldn't even
13:03
Speaker 1: track and properly monitor the three Chinese ships a week
13:07
Speaker 1: and a half ago, the circle out coast practicing firing
13:10
Speaker 1: their guns and missiles at US. I think just one
13:14
Speaker 1: of those Chinese ships had one hundred and twelve missile
13:18
Speaker 1: launch systemselves. One hundred and twelve how many missiles that
13:26
Speaker 1: it could fire? Do you think we'd be able to
13:28
Speaker 1: shoot down before they hit Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne. Yeah?
13:35
Speaker 1: And if it doesn't, Trump doesn't come and rescue us,
13:37
Speaker 1: I mean sitting ducks and it gets worse again. I
13:40
Speaker 1: told you we are in La la land. We're asleep.
13:43
Speaker 1: Our politicians should be running around doing something about this.
13:47
Speaker 1: This is the last example I give. Maybe you do
13:49
Speaker 1: think America will still save us, or at least you
13:53
Speaker 1: know we can use the great equipment that's sold US
13:55
Speaker 1: or is selling us, Like the nuclear subs if we
13:57
Speaker 1: ever get them, or the F thirty five A lightning
14:01
Speaker 1: jets that we've bought, surely we could at least use them.
14:05
Speaker 1: But the US is even reported to have partially holds
14:08
Speaker 1: the support for the F sixteen fighter jets it's sent
14:12
Speaker 1: to Ukraine, and this affects their radar jamming, leaving those
14:18
Speaker 1: aircraft more vulnerable. Now there is no actual kill switch
14:23
Speaker 1: to the US to actually switch off the fighters completely
14:25
Speaker 1: click the ones that it sells allies, but its air
14:29
Speaker 1: Force does control who gets the critical software upgrades that's
14:34
Speaker 1: still in American hands. They sell you the planes that
14:36
Speaker 1: got the software, and now Germany is worrying about their
14:39
Speaker 1: owner F thirty five that is buying from America. Could
14:43
Speaker 1: the US cripple them too if they were, say, defending
14:47
Speaker 1: Europe from Russia. In Britain there even warnings now the
14:51
Speaker 1: US could disabled the Triban missiles in British submarines that
14:54
Speaker 1: carry nuclear warheads. Has there been any debate here about
15:01
Speaker 1: any of this? I mean it did hear Richard Miles today,
15:03
Speaker 1: the Defense Minister, not answering one question on the ABC
15:08
Speaker 1: asked a couple of times blah blah blah. You know, no,
15:12
Speaker 1: no real response. Oh, she'll be right now. It's true.
15:19
Speaker 1: A lot of what I've just shown you and described
15:23
Speaker 1: they just be Trump bluster. As we're told, this is
15:26
Speaker 1: how it do is it does business, you know, just
15:29
Speaker 1: says something and people react and then it gets the
15:32
Speaker 1: best deal and it's all fun. But look at least, yes,
15:37
Speaker 1: it's got Europe spending more on its defense, and that
15:40
Speaker 1: is a very big and good thing. But a statesman,
15:46
Speaker 1: a president is a very different thing from a businessman,
15:50
Speaker 1: he or she a thatcher. They must also deal in
15:55
Speaker 1: trust and in values, and that's what Trump is getting wrong.
15:59
Speaker 1: We don't see him defending values in cutting Ukraine democratic
16:03
Speaker 1: Ukraine offer the knees, and we don't see him building
16:06
Speaker 1: trust with countries like US, which have helped the US
16:11
Speaker 1: in war and now cannot tell if Trump would help
16:15
Speaker 1: them back. And we can't base our defense on a
16:19
Speaker 1: hunch that Trump is just bluffing either way. We must
16:26
Speaker 1: now defend ourselves as fast as we can. I fear
16:28
Speaker 1: it's already too late. But only the blind and deaf
16:33
Speaker 1: and dumb would think we do nothing. Jodan missed the
16:40
Speaker 1: panel Michael Kroger, former Victorian Liberal president and Steve Conroy,
16:43
Speaker 1: former Labor senator and Cabinet minister. Steve Conroy, what do
16:48
Speaker 1: you think the danger is that we're in with Donald
16:50
Speaker 1: Trump changing the rules like this?
16:54
Speaker 7: Well, I mean I think the first thing we've got
16:55
Speaker 7: to do is admit that he's changed the rules. I mean,
16:59
Speaker 7: I can't agree with anything. You know, Editorial just went
17:04
Speaker 7: through all of those examples. They're things that are allies,
17:08
Speaker 7: are traditional allies, the poor Ukraine who are trying just
17:12
Speaker 7: to defend their people from a second incursion from a
17:16
Speaker 7: murderous war criminal. And there needs to be an absolutely
17:24
Speaker 7: clear eyed discussion about what Australia needs to do next.
17:29
Speaker 7: And this isn't going to be a labor liberal thing.
17:33
Speaker 7: There are Labor Party ements committed to the US Alliance
17:36
Speaker 7: as the coalition. So there needs to be a mature,
17:41
Speaker 7: clear eyed discussion about the need to increase defense spending
17:45
Speaker 7: for ourselves. In the EU, they've got these rules about
17:47
Speaker 7: how much you can spend deficits and they're now talking
17:50
Speaker 7: about having to exempt defense spending from their budgetary rules
17:54
Speaker 7: to allow them to build up. So we're going to
17:57
Speaker 7: need a mature debate from people of goodwill who all
18:02
Speaker 7: believe in the need to defend ourselves and build our
18:05
Speaker 7: relationships and build our alliances, and that has to be
18:09
Speaker 7: part of the upcoming election campaign and certainly straight afterwards
18:13
Speaker 7: where both parties. So Australia's national security has fundamentally changed
18:20
Speaker 7: because of the Trump doctrine.
18:22
Speaker 1: I put that.
18:22
Speaker 7: I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but there is a
18:24
Speaker 7: new doctrine in town and Australia needs to understand what
18:29
Speaker 7: we need to do. I mean, so you know the
18:34
Speaker 7: subs issue. We have built on a title defense around
18:38
Speaker 7: getting no subs and as you said, they may not
18:41
Speaker 7: turn up.
18:43
Speaker 1: Michael. The counter argument is that Trump is just bluffing,
18:47
Speaker 1: is getting the Europeans to spend more on the defense,
18:49
Speaker 1: and that is unambiguously needed. They have been slackers, they
18:54
Speaker 1: are villains in this regard, But how can we trust
18:58
Speaker 1: that it is just bluster? It just gets worse and worse.
19:01
Speaker 1: What it's doing to Ukraine for instance.
19:05
Speaker 8: Yeah, well what's happening here is terrible. But I think
19:08
Speaker 8: Stephen's the right to call it the Trump doctrine. That's
19:10
Speaker 8: exactly what it is. I mean, there's two things You've
19:12
Speaker 8: got to know to understand Trump. One is America first
19:15
Speaker 8: and secondly, he believes the American budget is unsustainable, and
19:19
Speaker 8: in demanding the Europeans pay more for their defense, he's
19:22
Speaker 8: absolutely correct. I mean, you know, they've been freeolading on
19:26
Speaker 8: the Americans for decades, ever since the war basically, and
19:29
Speaker 8: what he's essentially saying to all of the other pro
19:31
Speaker 8: Western nations is you've got to carry your weight. Don't
19:35
Speaker 8: expect the Americans to come and bail you out if
19:38
Speaker 8: you're under spending on your own defense. Now we've got
19:40
Speaker 8: the answers agreement, Michael.
19:42
Speaker 1: I've got that. But I'm not arguing about that. I've
19:44
Speaker 1: said that from the start. I'm totally for that. Yep.
19:48
Speaker 2: True.
19:48
Speaker 1: What I am also saying is that does not excuse
19:52
Speaker 1: absolutely destroying Ukraine so bargains from a position of weakness.
19:57
Speaker 1: It's bleeding that Trump. You know what Trump has done
20:00
Speaker 1: to them or attack you know, saying we are NATO.
20:04
Speaker 1: What good is that? I mean that is something else.
20:07
Speaker 8: Well, I couldn't agree more with you on Ukraine. I
20:11
Speaker 8: mean you know this, the Zelensky to me is an
20:14
Speaker 8: international hero for what he's done. I mean, the guy's
20:17
Speaker 8: an absolute hero. He's got a small nation under the
20:19
Speaker 8: pressure from the Russians. He's done an extraordinary job to
20:21
Speaker 8: hold him at bay for three years, essentially with drones.
20:27
Speaker 8: So yeah, Trump should have said. What he should have
20:30
Speaker 8: said is will of course continue our support for the
20:32
Speaker 8: Ukraine until that's resolved. But after that the Europeans have
20:35
Speaker 8: got to increase their expenditure of their own GDP on defense.
20:40
Speaker 8: But to leave Ukraine in the position is now is terrible,
20:44
Speaker 8: absolutely terrible and unforgivable. So yeah, I mean, of course
20:49
Speaker 8: nations are shuddering at what he's doing, but this is
20:52
Speaker 8: part of his doctrine here. There are no exemptions is
20:55
Speaker 8: on this on military spending, as we're about to find
20:58
Speaker 8: out on other issues.
20:59
Speaker 1: Andrew, I don't know that if he understands what it's
21:03
Speaker 1: doing to the faith their his allies have in keeping
21:05
Speaker 1: an alliance with the US and coming to its aid
21:08
Speaker 1: as Australia has done again and again and again. Stephen,
21:14
Speaker 1: as you know, almost never defend the poisonous Malcolm Turnbull,
21:17
Speaker 1: the former Prime minister, but he had a point today
21:20
Speaker 1: that made Donald Trump, so he read this is the
21:23
Speaker 1: point he made.
21:25
Speaker 9: Trump does not subscribe to the same values that we
21:29
Speaker 9: have in the past shared with America. Look, he doesn't
21:32
Speaker 9: have a commitment to the international rule of law, that's obvious.
21:36
Speaker 9: Doesn't care about treaties or alliances. You know, he's got
21:39
Speaker 9: a free trade agreement with Canada and Mexico, which he
21:42
Speaker 9: entered into by the way he signed it. Then he's
21:45
Speaker 9: just walked away from that.
21:47
Speaker 1: Trump then hit back, posting that Malcolm Turma, the former
21:50
Speaker 1: Premise of Australia, was always leading that wonderful country from behind,
21:54
Speaker 1: never understood what was going on in China, nor do
21:56
Speaker 1: he have the capacity to do so. I always thought
21:58
Speaker 1: that he was a weak and ineffect leader, and obviously
22:00
Speaker 1: Australians agreed with me. Stephen Turnbulls intervention, is that actually
22:07
Speaker 1: now going to make it even less likely that Trump
22:09
Speaker 1: is going to exempt Australia from the tariffs he said
22:12
Speaker 1: will be imposed and all steel and aliminium imports including
22:16
Speaker 1: ours on Wednesday?
22:20
Speaker 7: Well, look, I think what you've got to fundamentally realize
22:23
Speaker 7: is he's attacked Canada, he's attacked Mexico, he's attacking HEU,
22:30
Speaker 7: He's attacking Australia. It's not Australia doesn't have any more
22:33
Speaker 7: special relationship than Canada does with the US, and he
22:38
Speaker 7: has absolutely complete noly torn up their free trailer. We
22:44
Speaker 7: have a free trade agreement with the US, we have
22:47
Speaker 7: an agreement in which they are in surplus to US, and.
22:52
Speaker 1: None of that matters.
22:53
Speaker 7: So when he pretends it's really about a trade deficit,
22:56
Speaker 7: we've got a trade Shairplus, he is committed to making
23:00
Speaker 7: America great again under his definition, not one that economists
23:03
Speaker 7: think will long term work. But the point that I
23:06
Speaker 7: think you made last week is he wants to make
23:09
Speaker 7: America great again, not Australia. It's all about his economic
23:14
Speaker 7: and political narrative, and we are going to be hit
23:18
Speaker 7: and buffeted with a lot of bad policy that we thought.
23:22
Speaker 7: Now there was a consensus on over the last twenty
23:24
Speaker 7: five thirty years around economic policy that free trade was
23:27
Speaker 7: a good thing in general, and he is ripping that
23:30
Speaker 7: playbook up. But it's not just about whether Malcolm Turnbull
23:34
Speaker 7: who actually won the arguments. I don't want to be
23:37
Speaker 7: rude to Donald Trump, but Turnber won the argument and
23:39
Speaker 7: got the exemption. I think Trump will be determined to
23:43
Speaker 7: make sure that he is seen to be the winner
23:46
Speaker 7: in this arm wrestle and I think I fear that
23:49
Speaker 7: we will be unsuccessful next week. I hope I'm wrong.
23:52
Speaker 7: I just fear it wouldn't matter if it was pared
23:54
Speaker 7: to don't. And that is not being political. He wants
23:56
Speaker 7: to be seen to win this argument of the cost it.
24:00
Speaker 1: I don't think he understands what I I don't think
24:04
Speaker 1: you understand this is America is greater for the allies.
24:07
Speaker 1: It has and not just before been bullied into being
24:10
Speaker 1: his allies. But they're being inspired by the American values.
24:14
Speaker 1: That is what I think you here News poll Michael,
24:18
Speaker 1: fifty five percent for people now say the coalition is
24:22
Speaker 1: not ready to govern, and yet on the other hand,
24:26
Speaker 1: fifty one percent would still vote for it or give
24:28
Speaker 1: it their preferences. It's this pole a bit meaningless.
24:34
Speaker 8: It is meaningless. It's a pole you very rarely see.
24:39
Speaker 8: If ever, because it has no meaning, you start with
24:42
Speaker 8: the best, most important poll, which is a right direction
24:45
Speaker 8: wrong direction for the country. Does the government deserve a
24:50
Speaker 8: second term in terms of you know, do you want
24:52
Speaker 8: the next three years to be like the last three years?
24:54
Speaker 8: Yes or no? I mean they're the more relevant polls,
24:57
Speaker 8: so I don't think this is particularly relevant. But I
25:00
Speaker 8: think it's fair to say that as Redbridge. They've got
25:04
Speaker 8: this great quote, which is that there's a large percent
25:07
Speaker 8: of the electorate who are done and curious. That means
25:09
Speaker 8: they'd like to think about voting for the opposition. They're
25:13
Speaker 8: still making up their minds and so that's why I
25:16
Speaker 8: think this campaign, Andrew is probably going to matter more
25:18
Speaker 8: than most because tossing out a first term government for
25:22
Speaker 8: the first time and you know, ninety odd years very rare,
25:25
Speaker 8: of course, So that's why people are thinking about you know,
25:28
Speaker 8: they don't like to admit they're wrong. The elector doesn't
25:30
Speaker 8: like to say we've got badly wrong in twenty two.
25:32
Speaker 8: That's why both governments get a second term. People say
25:34
Speaker 8: we'll give them another go. So this is you know,
25:38
Speaker 8: I think there is a large number of people who
25:39
Speaker 8: have not made up their mind, which is why the
25:41
Speaker 8: campaign matters. But it's that part particularly relevant, No, it's not.
25:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, Michael Greig, you Stephen Conroy, thank you very much
25:49
Speaker 1: to you both. After the break, a key stolen generation's
25:54
Speaker 1: myth exploded as a grandson checks the truth about his
25:58
Speaker 1: grandparents accused of being part of the alleged genocide, a
26:06
Speaker 1: foundation myth of the stolen generations has just been exploded.
26:10
Speaker 1: I mean that phrase the stolen generations, supposed to describe
26:14
Speaker 1: children stolen from their parents just because of our Aboriginal
26:18
Speaker 1: That phrase stolen generations was invented in nineteen eighty one
26:23
Speaker 1: by Professor Pi to Reid, and the speech later that
26:26
Speaker 1: I reported at the time, he named two famous people
26:29
Speaker 1: he said were stole. These were the people that really
26:32
Speaker 1: epitomized what he's talking about. One was slow To O'donohu,
26:35
Speaker 1: who became a top public servant and patron of the
26:38
Speaker 1: Sorry Day Committee. And the other was Charles Perkins, the
26:41
Speaker 1: first head, first head of a Commonwealth government department, who
26:45
Speaker 1: was Aboriginal. Not a man easy to describe as a victim. Now,
26:50
Speaker 1: I'd always known this claim about o'donohuem Perkins, that they
26:53
Speaker 1: were stolen were almost like the foundation members of these
26:58
Speaker 1: stolen generations. It was false. I knew that Dona Huelatter
27:02
Speaker 1: told me she hadn't been stolen. Her father had cruelly
27:05
Speaker 1: given her away and as a reporter for years. Perkins's mother,
27:10
Speaker 1: Charlie Perkins's mother Hetty, had actually asked the missionary and
27:13
Speaker 1: Alice Springs to take an educated talented son two years
27:16
Speaker 1: later sat on radio in Melbourne. No, he wasn't actually stolen.
27:21
Speaker 1: But if Charlie Perkins was stolen, who stole him? There
27:28
Speaker 1: must have been these people Father Percy Smith, missionary and priest,
27:32
Speaker 1: and Alice Springs and then later Adelaide and his wife
27:35
Speaker 1: isabel who helped him run the Bungalow building an alice
27:38
Speaker 1: for Aboriginal children who's been basedly stolen. So did person
27:43
Speaker 1: Isabelle really steal Charlie Perkins and other Aboriginal children first
27:47
Speaker 1: and Alice Springs and then bringing some of them Charlie
27:49
Speaker 1: included with them to Adelaide to start afresh. Were they
27:53
Speaker 1: child stealers, agents of a genocide the stolen generations? Or
27:59
Speaker 1: did they and many missionaries like them help, in fact
28:03
Speaker 1: help the children have been abandoned or neglected or sent
28:07
Speaker 1: to In this case this couple, the Smith couple, for
28:10
Speaker 1: an education that the children couldn't get in the desert. Well.
28:13
Speaker 1: Their grandson Mark Smith, has now gone through his grandparents'
28:19
Speaker 1: papers and cone the archives to discover and to tell
28:24
Speaker 1: the real story of this remarkable couple blame for their
28:28
Speaker 1: role in Stolen generations, But in fact the couple remembered
28:32
Speaker 1: with great fondness by the children they helped, many of
28:35
Speaker 1: them becoming very successful, including Charlie Perkins. Mark Smith is
28:40
Speaker 1: now looking for investors to make a film of their lives,
28:42
Speaker 1: with the Hollywood directors lined up. I spoke to him earlier,
28:47
Speaker 1: Mark Smith, great to see you. We're told that this
28:52
Speaker 1: is all part of the Stolen generations. The Austrange Human
28:56
Speaker 1: Rights Commission talked about a genocide official taking children from
29:01
Speaker 1: their parents just because they were Aborigines. And this is
29:05
Speaker 1: all terrible and we've got sorry days since the children
29:09
Speaker 1: that your grandparents helped were they stolen.
29:16
Speaker 10: Look, I'm not an expert on the stolen generation. I
29:20
Speaker 10: studied Frontier conflict and the massacres at university, but certainly look,
29:26
Speaker 10: I'm just a person who's trying to share his grandmother's story, Andrew.
29:31
Speaker 2: And.
29:33
Speaker 10: What I can tell you is the initial group who
29:36
Speaker 10: came from Alice Springs all came with the permission of
29:38
Speaker 10: their mothers. In that group where Bill Espie, John Palmer,
29:44
Speaker 10: David Woodford, Charlie Perkins, and Malcolm Cooper. Saint Francis House
29:49
Speaker 10: was a place that was doing good things, so they
29:53
Speaker 10: wanted to send more children there. And among the people
29:58
Speaker 10: who lived at Saint Francis House were children who had
30:01
Speaker 10: been forcibly removed by government from their parents without their
30:04
Speaker 10: knowledge or consent.
30:07
Speaker 1: The children that your grandparents helped, though, did not seem
30:12
Speaker 1: to have been stolen. Charlie Perkins, you actually taped when
30:17
Speaker 1: you were a child, your grandmother saying the circumstances by
30:23
Speaker 1: which Charlie Perkins came into their care. Here's the video.
30:29
Speaker 8: She said, he's getting on and he's getting.
30:33
Speaker 2: A bit difficult for me to manage.
30:36
Speaker 10: And I think she'd be better.
30:40
Speaker 6: In the hostel.
30:41
Speaker 8: If you think that you had moved to.
30:43
Speaker 1: Take you How did you happen to record that?
30:50
Speaker 10: But we were coming to the later stages of my
30:52
Speaker 10: grandmother's life, and she was talking about her early years
30:56
Speaker 10: in our Springs, and she recalled that Hetty Perkins, who
31:02
Speaker 10: had been a trusted friend of Percy Smith for almost
31:06
Speaker 10: ten years, came and asked if two of her sons,
31:10
Speaker 10: Charlie and Ernie, could initially come and live at St.
31:13
Speaker 10: John's Hostel in Alice Springs and then be part of
31:17
Speaker 10: the first six Boys. What's more important is the opportunities
31:21
Speaker 10: those children got when they got into the big city
31:23
Speaker 10: to get into good schools and get into trades and
31:28
Speaker 10: eventually have a chance to get university educations. And some
31:33
Speaker 10: of the first Indigenous people ever to get university degrees
31:38
Speaker 10: were among the boys ats in France's house.
31:41
Speaker 1: And the thing that so great about Charlie Perkins is
31:46
Speaker 1: that from the opportunities he was given by your grandparents,
31:51
Speaker 1: far from being stolen and far from being a victim,
31:55
Speaker 1: he went on to become our first Aboriginal head of
32:00
Speaker 1: a government department, a federal government department, a trailblazer. Also,
32:06
Speaker 1: he was on that freedom fighting campaign for Aboriginal rights.
32:12
Speaker 1: I only spoke to him, I think once or twice,
32:15
Speaker 1: but that man, really he seemed to have a bond
32:19
Speaker 1: with your grandfather for a start, didn't he even as
32:22
Speaker 1: an adult.
32:24
Speaker 10: I was told by my grandmother that when my grandfather
32:27
Speaker 10: died in nineteen eighty two, Charlie was obviously working in
32:31
Speaker 10: Canberra and in the department, and it meant so much
32:36
Speaker 10: to him what father Smith had done that he asked
32:39
Speaker 10: for the funeral to be delayed one day so that
32:41
Speaker 10: he could fly back to Adelaide, pay his respects and
32:45
Speaker 10: be one of the poor bearers at the funeral. And
32:48
Speaker 10: there was a lifelong connection between Charlie Father Smith and
32:51
Speaker 10: many of the other boys. They helped each other to
32:54
Speaker 10: do amazing things in sport, academia, the arts, and all
33:00
Speaker 10: realms of endeavor at a time when not many people
33:05
Speaker 10: were perhaps interested in giving Aboriginal people an opportunity.
33:11
Speaker 1: How does it feel to have your the work of
33:13
Speaker 1: your parents? And there are others I could point to missionaries,
33:19
Speaker 1: predominantly as Sister or other Sister Hyde Peter Costello's great aunt,
33:26
Speaker 1: I think she was there was working also in Alice Springs,
33:30
Speaker 1: many others to be described as agents of a genocide.
33:34
Speaker 1: What was actually motivating your grandparents?
33:42
Speaker 10: My grandmother she loved children, and she wanted to be
33:47
Speaker 10: a school teacher and a piano teacher, but most of
33:51
Speaker 10: all she wanted to be a mother. And she was
33:54
Speaker 10: lucky to have one son of her own, my late father.
33:57
Speaker 10: But she when she went to Alice Springs, she was
34:00
Speaker 10: taken to the bungalow by Percy Smith, and she met
34:03
Speaker 10: to the young the children there and saw their living conditions,
34:06
Speaker 10: and that really upset and moved her, and she felt
34:09
Speaker 10: that she should do something rather than go back to
34:14
Speaker 10: a sedate, comfortable life. In Adelaide, and she boldly went
34:19
Speaker 10: to Alice Springs, married the priest at a time when
34:22
Speaker 10: the threat of the Japanese attack was at its height,
34:26
Speaker 10: against their parents' wishes, and started she devoted her life
34:30
Speaker 10: to caring for those children as a mix of experiences
34:36
Speaker 10: of being removed and parental consent at Saint Francis House,
34:41
Speaker 10: which makes the story complex and difficult to just capture generalize.
34:48
Speaker 10: And that's why I really want to make this film
34:51
Speaker 10: with the help of Mark Webber, and share this story
34:55
Speaker 10: not just with Australia but with the world about Australia experience,
35:01
Speaker 10: whether it's Indigenous people.
35:04
Speaker 1: And even when we talk about removed without consent, that
35:06
Speaker 1: is again complex to their children, removed without consent from
35:12
Speaker 1: many families even more today for reasons that we know
35:15
Speaker 1: only too well. But you're right, the complexity is always missing.
35:20
Speaker 1: And I'm so glad that the truth about your grandparents
35:23
Speaker 1: will come to light in this film. Thank you so
35:25
Speaker 1: much indeed for your time, Mark Smith.
35:30
Speaker 10: Thank you.
35:32
Speaker 1: If you want to know more about the true story
35:34
Speaker 1: of Percy in Isabelle Smith, or you want to help
35:37
Speaker 1: Mark finance this movie about them, go to liveheart dot
35:42
Speaker 1: com dot you Liveheart one word dot com dot you.
35:48
Speaker 1: After the break the ABC at Taxi strand War Memorial,
35:51
Speaker 1: I think that forgotten what it takes to actually win
35:55
Speaker 1: a war. If we must go to war one day,
36:02
Speaker 1: God forbid. We don't just need young Australians who are
36:05
Speaker 1: prepared to fight and die for this country, country that's
36:08
Speaker 1: been trashed so often as racist, what have you. We
36:12
Speaker 1: do not have a chance because we're so small. We
36:15
Speaker 1: do not have a chance. And this We've also got
36:17
Speaker 1: the very latest military technology and weapons, which of the
36:20
Speaker 1: West tends to have, thankfully, because open societies tend to
36:25
Speaker 1: mean better science. It's the big arms manufacturers as much
36:28
Speaker 1: as soldiers who will protect us. So I think the
36:31
Speaker 1: ABC's again on the wrong track with his four Corner
36:34
Speaker 1: show tonight on the Australian War Memorial. To judge from
36:37
Speaker 1: the promo, I'm a Paul bite, it's a kind of
36:40
Speaker 1: de sea land of war red flags. Half a billion dollars.
36:44
Speaker 1: There's an awful lot of money to spend on something
36:46
Speaker 1: that nobody's discussed.
36:47
Speaker 4: I don't agree with the criticisms with Skinner prombination.
36:52
Speaker 1: Now. The show also asks how the memorial dares to
36:55
Speaker 1: accept sponsorship from arms manufacturers. It's dirty money. It should
37:01
Speaker 1: not be accepting money from merchants of death. Join me's
37:06
Speaker 1: the panel Who's thor of the late debate here in
37:08
Speaker 1: sky And weekdays at ten pm And Stephen Shavura, an
37:11
Speaker 1: author and senior lecturer in history at Campion College. Stephen,
37:15
Speaker 1: is it so wrong for arms manufacturers to support the
37:18
Speaker 1: war memorial? Discreetly? Not at all?
37:22
Speaker 11: I mean, as you say, you need arms manufacturers to
37:27
Speaker 11: wage successful wars. You want us, a weak country, to
37:31
Speaker 11: be able to successfully fight off a stronger aggressive country.
37:36
Speaker 11: This is how we defeated Hitler, this is how good
37:40
Speaker 11: triumphs over evil. Arms is just a necessary part of life,
37:46
Speaker 11: of human history, and we actually do need them. Australia
37:49
Speaker 11: certainly needs them, and just too often academics are just
37:51
Speaker 11: living in their own ivory tower land where these sorts
37:54
Speaker 11: of questions are really just moral questions opportunities for virtue signaling.
37:59
Speaker 11: But theat that the matter is the world that we
38:01
Speaker 11: are in. Wars happen, and there are just reasons to
38:05
Speaker 11: enter into war. And for those who enter into war
38:07
Speaker 11: to defend themselves or to defend others, they need weapons.
38:11
Speaker 11: And so there is nothing wrong with what is happening here.
38:17
Speaker 1: This just seems a hell of a time for the
38:18
Speaker 1: ABC to devote a program to what's wrong with the
38:21
Speaker 1: war memorial?
38:24
Speaker 6: It does, indeed, I mean, we're going to need these
38:26
Speaker 6: manufacturers in the coming days, weeks, months, years, as far
38:30
Speaker 6: as we can tell. But I got to say I
38:33
Speaker 6: do understand both sides of the debate here. On the
38:35
Speaker 6: one hand, I'm a firm believer in the old a
38:38
Speaker 6: edge all wars, of banker's wars. Anyone who knows their
38:40
Speaker 6: history knows that the ugly truth is these are the
38:43
Speaker 6: people who make billions, hundreds of billions of dollars from war.
38:49
Speaker 6: But on the other hand, as we've discussed, who else
38:52
Speaker 6: better to fund it? Cough it up, fat cats. You
38:55
Speaker 6: guys have got the dough What better way to spend
38:58
Speaker 6: it than on commemoryiding the fallen in this country and elsewhere.
39:05
Speaker 1: Well, that may be, that's a good take, Stephen. Something
39:12
Speaker 1: else I don't quite get then, talking about the horrible
39:16
Speaker 1: art of warfare, this case more primitive. In Syria, you've
39:20
Speaker 1: got militias Islam Islams militious associated with the new jihadiest
39:25
Speaker 1: government and a warning to viewers. This footage is disturbing.
39:29
Speaker 1: They've been going around capturing and then killing Christians and
39:33
Speaker 1: alebate Muslims, so they claim back the old Reshim of
39:36
Speaker 1: Bassarda al Assad, including reportedly women and children. So Christians
39:40
Speaker 1: are right now victims in Africa in the Congo, is
39:45
Speaker 1: the Mists slaughtering more Christians, beheading seventy in one reported
39:48
Speaker 1: attack last month. In Nigeria, You've got Islamus kidnapping and
39:53
Speaker 1: murdering Christian priests as well as, of course Christian villagers.
39:58
Speaker 1: Why does all this, this persecution of Christians get almost
40:02
Speaker 1: zero media coverage.
40:04
Speaker 11: It's amazing because the most persecuted religious minority, or the
40:08
Speaker 11: most persecuted religious group in the world, is not Muslims,
40:12
Speaker 11: It is not Jews, it is Christians. Why does it
40:16
Speaker 11: get hardly any coverage? Because I think if you were
40:18
Speaker 11: to cover it, you would reveal that the greatest persecutor
40:22
Speaker 11: of Christians after China is Muslims. And it just indicates
40:28
Speaker 11: that the media mantra over the last couple of decades
40:31
Speaker 11: and the mantra coming from politicians that Islam is a
40:35
Speaker 11: religion of peace, that Muslims are victims and Christians are
40:39
Speaker 11: oppressors that in actual fact, reality is the exact opposite.
40:44
Speaker 11: And when you've been banging a drum that is the
40:47
Speaker 11: opposite of reality for so many decades, it is very
40:50
Speaker 11: hard to sit there and say with it, and say
40:53
Speaker 11: that you were wrong and that in actual fact, it
40:55
Speaker 11: is not Christians who are perpetrators. It is Christians who
40:59
Speaker 11: are victims. And it is Islam that is the ideology
41:03
Speaker 11: that is fueling so much murder and oppression.
41:08
Speaker 1: Liz, I think Stephen probably hit it on the head,
41:11
Speaker 1: but I have to say it also make a lot
41:14
Speaker 1: of news, a lot more news if it was Jews
41:16
Speaker 1: killing the Christians. But it's not. Oh, Jews killing the
41:19
Speaker 1: Muslims now in Syria, but it's not. So it doesn't
41:23
Speaker 1: seem to rate.
41:25
Speaker 6: Where are the UN meetings, Where are the protests? Where
41:28
Speaker 6: is the media outcry? Andrew? It's absolutely nowhere because it's Christians,
41:34
Speaker 6: but also because I think the West, those powerful in
41:38
Speaker 6: the West, know the part that they played in toppling
41:41
Speaker 6: the Asad regime. It all goes back to Obama's term
41:45
Speaker 6: in office when he sunk a billion dollars into a
41:47
Speaker 6: CIA project called Project in the Sycamore. That billion dollars
41:52
Speaker 6: served one purpose, and that was to train and arm
41:56
Speaker 6: terrorists in Syria to topple the regime. They wanted Asad out.
42:02
Speaker 6: This is not a secret whatsoever. And for as long
42:07
Speaker 6: as those powerful people in the West wage this war
42:10
Speaker 6: against Asad, the Christian population in Syria went from ten
42:15
Speaker 6: percent to two percent. They were leaving because they knew
42:19
Speaker 6: that Asad, I'm not standing up for the guy was
42:23
Speaker 6: really good at One of the few things he was
42:26
Speaker 6: good at was protecting religious minorities. And they knew that
42:31
Speaker 6: as soon as Asad was gone, their protection was gone.
42:35
Speaker 6: And we cannot turn a blind eye to the part
42:38
Speaker 6: that the West played in this. They wanted assan God
42:42
Speaker 6: at any cost. They knew that that would mean the
42:45
Speaker 6: Islamis would be in power and that Christians would be
42:48
Speaker 6: slaughtered as well as the Alamites. As you've pointed out,
42:52
Speaker 6: Alo Whites, I should say, this was always going to happen.
42:56
Speaker 6: They knew it, and they did it anyway. So there's
43:00
Speaker 6: no one in the media who.
43:01
Speaker 1: Wants to talk about that.
43:02
Speaker 6: Even Americans who tried to draw attention to the fact that, well,
43:06
Speaker 6: at least Asad does look after these religious minorities. They
43:10
Speaker 6: would of course, then be screamed down saying, oh you're
43:13
Speaker 6: in Asad, toady, how dare you protect this dictator? How
43:17
Speaker 6: dare you speak in his favor simply for noticing one.
43:20
Speaker 1: Simple fact, except, of course, his way of bringing security
43:26
Speaker 1: to some was that killed most so many of the others.
43:29
Speaker 6: It's like a choice like I'm not a familiar regime.
43:33
Speaker 1: No, no, no, The choice is who do you prefer,
43:37
Speaker 1: you know, Stalin or Hitler. I mean, it's just no
43:39
Speaker 1: choice whatsoever. But I have to say, Stephen, Israel was
43:43
Speaker 1: getting some heat for going in immediately after Asad was
43:46
Speaker 1: out and bombing big weapons depots and creating no gozone
43:53
Speaker 1: on its border. Seems like it made you know, weapons
43:57
Speaker 1: depots in Syria. Seems like it did the world of favor. Yeah.
44:02
Speaker 11: Well, Israel's going to get a lot of heat for
44:04
Speaker 11: pretty much whatever it does. So that's that's hardly a surprise. So,
44:10
Speaker 11: I mean, that's not going to change whether they do
44:13
Speaker 11: something good. They're going to get heat whether they do
44:16
Speaker 11: something good. But also had some really terrible effects as well,
44:20
Speaker 11: like you know, the death of civilians. They're going to
44:23
Speaker 11: get blamed for that as well. It's just something that
44:25
Speaker 11: is to be expected.
44:29
Speaker 1: Look, the whole thing is an unholy mess anyway, Liz Staro,
44:36
Speaker 1: Steven Tava, thank you very much to you both. After
44:41
Speaker 1: the break, Nija Farage is in trouble after being billed
44:45
Speaker 1: is Britain's next Prime Minister? About a mess in Britain's
44:52
Speaker 1: being said already that the next British Prime Minister will
44:55
Speaker 1: be Nigel Farage during election four years away, but he's
44:59
Speaker 1: ahead of the anti immigration Reform Party. He won only
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Speaker 1: five seats to the last election, but poles the last
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Speaker 1: month or a second look. This guy Reform has already
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Speaker 1: head of both Labor and the Conservatives, but suddenly Faraj
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Speaker 1: is in trouble. First, Donald Trump's megaphone x owner Elon
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Speaker 1: Musk said Fanch didn't have what it takes and should
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Speaker 1: be replaced. Not sure how Elon Musk is at the
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Speaker 1: time to actually research these things, but they're and now.
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Speaker 1: One of foraja's MP's multimillionaire Rupert Lowe, has attacked foraja's
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Speaker 1: leadership and been accused in turn of being investigated by
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Speaker 1: the party and even talk of police for making threats
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Speaker 1: of violence against Reforms. Chairman joining from London is writer
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Speaker 1: broadcaster and presenter Esther Kraku es the great to see you.
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Speaker 1: What is this fight really about. I'm hearing from both
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Speaker 1: sides and I'm not sure whose side it should be on.
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Speaker 12: Yeah, well, this is an uncomfortable situation that Reform is
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Speaker 12: finding itself in because it's a very new party and
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Speaker 12: so it has to kind of establish protocols when it
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Speaker 12: comes to MPs and what is appropriate behavior. Now alleging
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Speaker 12: that this is basically a smear campaign and are waited
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Speaker 12: to wedge him out of the party because he's had
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Speaker 12: some sort of differences with Nigel's leadership and Zia Yusuf
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Speaker 12: who's the chairman of the party. But Reform is alleging that,
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Speaker 12: you know, there was a bust up with a labor
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Speaker 12: minister cabinet minister before the Christmas recess in Westminster, that
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Speaker 12: it was under investigation, and two members of staff have
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Speaker 12: also come forward alleging inappropriate conduct by mister Low in
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Speaker 12: the interim period. So mister Low thinks that it's because
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Speaker 12: of his outspoken criticisms of Niger Farag's leadership that he's
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Speaker 12: basically being investigated and forced out and has had the
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Speaker 12: whit removed. But Niger Faraj is saying, actually, there have
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Speaker 12: been internal problems that we've kept under wraps, but we
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Speaker 12: are investigating. They've actually appointed a case c so a
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Speaker 12: barrister to investigate this and to see if they can
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Speaker 12: set and play some party processes. Now I know from
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Speaker 12: insiders in Reform that have told me that the reason
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Speaker 12: for this is because Labor and the Conservatives have had
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Speaker 12: scandal after scandal involving MPs and lack of action when
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Speaker 12: there have been been a scandal or something worth investigating brewing.
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Speaker 12: I'm pretty sure the most infamous example is obviously the
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Speaker 12: rise of anti Semitism under Jeremy Corbyn's leadership in the
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Speaker 12: Labor Party that was allowed to go on unfettered, and
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Speaker 12: Reformer trying to avoid all of that and seem like
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Speaker 12: a serious party and have proper structures and protocols in place.
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Speaker 12: The problem they have is Rupert Lowe is one of
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Speaker 12: their most popular MP's and he has really led the charge,
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Speaker 12: particularly when it came to the grooming gang scandal and
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Speaker 12: calling for a national inquiry. He's really held MP's and
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Speaker 12: the government's feet to the fire when it comes to
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Speaker 12: many issues in the party. So what Reform is gambling
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Speaker 12: on is basically that people will not remember this four
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Speaker 12: years down the line if Reform actually looks like a
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Speaker 12: functioning party that can really challenge the Westminster status quo
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Speaker 12: and get people back to where their base really wants
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Speaker 12: the country to be. But on Rupert Low's side, he's saying,
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Speaker 12: you know, this could be the unfolding of the Reform
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Speaker 12: Party in its crib. If they can't manage five MPs,
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Speaker 12: how can they run Westminster and effectively the country. So
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Speaker 12: it's going to be interesting to see where this falls.
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Speaker 12: But it looks like Nigel Faraj is really taking a
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Speaker 12: very firm stance on this.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw Rupert Loss. I know the complaints with
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Speaker 1: staffs weren't at me but other staff. But I don't
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Speaker 1: know where the truth lies. But you know we've seen
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Speaker 1: this with Pauline Hans is one Nation party. Here you
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Speaker 1: get a small party, charismatic leader. Other people come in
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Speaker 1: thinking I can make something of this. In fact I
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Speaker 1: can do it myself, and I just wonder whether there's
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Speaker 1: a little bit of a very ambitious man thinking he's
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Speaker 1: bigger than the guy that actually created the whole movement.
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Speaker 12: Well, I mean it's complicated because Rupert Low has never
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Speaker 12: given the impression that he wants to be leader. However,
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Speaker 12: it is quite uncommon for an MP and a party,
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Speaker 12: particularly a small party, to be so vocal against the
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Speaker 12: leader and the leadership, and so whether that was a
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Speaker 12: wise move on Rupert Lowi's part is questionable. Is there
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Speaker 12: something that he could have had a conversation with Nigel?
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Speaker 12: And I'm sure he has his number, the only five
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Speaker 12: MP's in Reform in Parliament. But on the other hand,
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Speaker 12: you know, he seems to want to stastic firm to
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Speaker 12: his principles and whether that's something that Reform can really
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Speaker 12: deal with is another question.
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Speaker 1: Well, it's just if you'd given more another year, I
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Speaker 1: would have started my Esther Kracker for a political leadership movement,
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Speaker 1: but we don't. We want to keep you on this show,
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Speaker 1: so that I left to wait. Thank you so much
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Speaker 1: for your time, Esther, coming up now, Sherry markson good
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Speaker 1: Night