Latest / TFEs: Thoughts. Feelings. Emotions. (sports) / The Grief Race

Transcript

The Grief Race · TFEs: Thoughts. Feelings. Emotions. (sports)

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: What's going on?
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Welcome into TFB's. It's Dallin Cuff, Kelsey Cuff, and we
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: have been away for a while. We haven't done this
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: in quite some time, and we thought about doing it
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: a couple different times over the last few weeks, but
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: finally are sitting down today.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Part of that is just life and busyness, and I think.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: The other part of it, more importantly, is... the heaviness
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: of I know, I'm sure, what this conversation is going
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: to bring. Let's start with your TFEs off the top.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we've been gone for a month because I don't
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: think it's anything to do with being busy, honestly. We're busy,
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: but we would have done a pod just like we
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: always did the pod. One of my best friends, Chris Patola,
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: passed away on September 21st, suddenly and unexpectedly. So.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: He was like a brother to me and this is
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: the first time I guess we're having like a public
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: conversation about this. I posted something, I mean, a couple
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: of days, maybe a week after, um, once I had
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: maybe the ability to stop crying as much and have
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: like more, uh, cogent thoughts about Chris and his family
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: and their, my thoughts, feelings, emotions about him and them, um,
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: and what they were going through and what they, what
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: he meant to me and still means to me and
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: will always mean to me. I think that, um, not
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: doing this pod was just, I don't know if it's
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: like a cowardice thing at the time. Like I didn't,
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: I didn't want to, I just wasn't ready to, to,
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: to do it. And I'm not saying I am ready.
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: It's more like, this has to be like a, this
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: has to be like the next step in my process
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: of not, of, of allowing, you know, us to move
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: forward doing this pod, which we, which means a lot
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: to us. But to, to do this, that it's called thoughts, feelings,
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: and emotions and not, address the biggest thought, feeling, emotion
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: I've had since September 21st at around 1.15 PM.
• 2:04
  Speaker 5: That's, you can't really do this, honestly.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: So, um, my thoughts right now are the fact that
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: I think this is, you know, necessary and important, but
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: not like a conversation I imagine I'll enjoy. I think
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: a lot of times we do this pod, we come
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: out feeling better and maybe that'll be the case.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Maybe.
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: Um, But this one is just hard. So my thoughts
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: are that.
• 2:31
  Speaker 5: I.
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: Don't know. It's hard to articulate. It's like I want
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: to do it and I don't want to do it
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: at the same time. My feelings are there's sadness. There's
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: obviously this constant feeling of grief that is there. And
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: I've only lost... I've lived a charmed life. I haven't
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: lost so many people that were truly that close to me.
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: I lost my father, who I think about every day.
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: I had friends that I grew up with that passed away.
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: When we were in college, a couple of different friends,
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: which was really hard and really sad, but.
• 3:05
  Speaker 5: It's different.
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: Like those guys still pop in my head, but it's
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: like the relationship Chris and I had developed, it was
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: like a brother. And if you lose a brother and
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: one you're really close to and you talk to every day,
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: you think about him every day. So it's like the
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: only two people in my life that I've lost that
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: I think about are my dad and Chris. And a
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: lot of times those moments, and people always say this,
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: and I think there's a lot of truth to it too,
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: that you.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: It's not always in the obvious moments. Like, yes, in
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: the obvious moments, like, you know, we have a baby.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: My dad's not there. Like, that's obvious. You know, there's
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: celebrations where there's not there. Chris and I, every Monday morning,
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: we don't do the pod. That's an odd feeling every
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: Monday morning. That's an odd thing. We did a podcast
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: together called Social Replay, which I loved and truly enjoyed doing.
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: And partially because I just got to talk to him. Like,
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: we scheduled time to talk to each other and had
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: fun doing our nonsense. And I think that's what It's
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: the innocuous moments. It's like, I always want to text
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: him stupid shit or meaningful shit. There are very few
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: people in your life. And sorry, I'm on a full
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: rant now. There are very few people in your life.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: I think that you can send the stupidest meme or
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: joke or thought. And we did see the world a
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: very Seinfeldian way where like, you know, somebody cutting in
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: line becomes an issue and becomes a constant, like a
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: conversation that we need to have.
• 4:27
  Speaker 5: And we need to analyze that issue.
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: You can go from that, but also discussing your kids
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: and your family and parenting and loss and grief and
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: struggles with our professional life, personal life, anything. There was
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: very few things we couldn't touch or talk about. And
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: that could go in the same 20-minute conversation. Chris is
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: a truly special person and a special person in my life.
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: And when that's not there anymore, you think about him
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: in the special moments. But you particularly think about him
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: in the complete innocuous moments. Like Saturday night when I'm
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: sitting there and you're working every Saturday night and I'm
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: sitting there watching football, a lot of times we would
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: be sending stuff back and forth.
• 5:07
  Speaker 5: Some about the show, some about nothing, whatever. Some about
• 5:09
  Speaker 5: this game or whatever.
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: The other night was one of those poignant moments where
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: like three or four times where I was just like,
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: this sucks. Like I have nobody to send this to.
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: And I can send it to my brother or I
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: can send it to... And there may be something similar back,
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: but it's just not the same. He was like, He
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: was my go-to guy for so many of my thoughts, feelings,
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: and emotions that weren't, let's say, of the ilk of
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: our thoughts, feelings, and emotions. You need different people in
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: your life to do different things. And our relationship was
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: significantly different in what I would send and talk to
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: him about than I would send and talk to you about.
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: So there are just so many moments that I don't
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: get to share with him anymore. And all in all,
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: I think that when I sit in it or have
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: for the last six weeks, there is that sadness, there's
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: that heaviness. And, and there are moments where I make
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: her smile thinking about something or think about what he
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: would say, but it's just still in that place where,
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: you know, you know, multiple times a day he'll pop
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: in my mind and it's just like, I can't believe
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: this is, that's it.
• 6:16
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Um, I feel like I think about it and have
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: thought about it in a lot of random ways and
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: times for you for whatever reason. Yesterday and last night,
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: I was thinking about it more. Maybe when you came
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: in and said something, I had the sound on for
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: the World Series and you were surprised that I had
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: the sound on for that versus football versus just something
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: random because it's not like we've been totally locked or
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: ever totally locked into baseball. But it hit me then
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: because I just was thinking like, as much as all
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: of the big things. And I know the little things
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: are hard, but I was thinking of the sports side
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: of it too. Cause you know, you guys did go
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: through all the sports topics and stories and whatever is big.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: And I was also thinking about that void. Like you're
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: not doing a whole lot of radio right now and
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: you're obviously super into sports and doing many other things
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: with your jobs. But the conversations that you guys had
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: around that too was something that I was like, this is,
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: not something that you're like missing or longing for or
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: hurting in the same way that you are with some
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: of these bigger things with him.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: But I think it just, it's been, it's not like
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: it hasn't been.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: Prevalent to me, but it was another reminder of like
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: all of the little ways that I know that your
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: mind is probably going there and being reminded of him.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: You mentioned the like constant grief. I shared with you
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: something that I saw on Instagram, Samantha Bush. Mm-hmm. who
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: just tragically and very unexpectedly lost her husband, Kyle Busch,
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: a NASCAR driver. And she shared this analogy that I
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: thought was so good about grief. And it was a
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: racing analogy, but I just thought it was so relatable
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: about how grief is always with you. Like you're in
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: one car and grief is in the pace car right
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: next to you. And sometimes it's out front of you
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: and it's leading the way. And sometimes it's behind you
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: and you forget about it for a second. Sometimes it
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: takes a pit stop. And then sometimes it completely wrecks you.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: It was like the most visual way that I have
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: ever seen grief described that was so relatable because in
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: any type of situation, and I know through this one,
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: you and by obviously it hits me in different ways.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: I didn't have the relationship with Chris that you did,
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: but obviously cared deeply about you, cared deeply about him
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: and his family and then loved the relationship.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: That you guys had.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: And so it hits me differently than it hits you,
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: especially from just worrying about you and wondering how you
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: are and trying to give you your space versus when
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: do we need to talk? And like you said, this
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: is the first time we've talked publicly about it, but
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: we've had tons of conversations about it. Grief is just
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: so tricky because sometimes you know when it's just gonna
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: be like full fledged, this is gonna be hard.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: Like he passed, we knew the funeral was gonna be
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: really hard.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: We knew the next week was going to be really
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: hard because he was supposed to be up here visiting
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: and staying with us for the first time. But sometimes
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: it's like the little unexpected moments that I feel like
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: where grief is sometimes the most triggering because it's like,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: I didn't see that coming.
• 9:24
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: I think those are the hardest ones, honestly, because it's just,
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: then it can put you in a state where you're
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: just kind of not in a spiral, I guess, especially
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: the first, like, I mean, still there, like it was,
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: it's still present, but I felt like the first like
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: two or three weeks, it was just like, I just
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: couldn't get out of a funk anyway. It would be
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: the littlest thing could put me back into it. And
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: I was never like, I wasn't feeling high or good.
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: It just, I was like, you were saying the race
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: analogy is great. Cause it was like three, four, just
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: rolling along with me. And then like the smallest thing,
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: someone like racing, you make one little Twitch the wrong
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: way and you're, you're, you're wrecked. And then I'm in
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: a bit of a funk and I think you've been
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: amazing and managing by emotions and not um letting me
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: kind of just be if i was to your point
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: like if i lashed out in a way you let
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: me apologize or maybe i didn't apologize and let that
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: be okay if If I was distant or quiet, you
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: kind of would check in but not try to be forceful.
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: If I needed to cry, you let me cry. You've
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: been amazing through the whole process and I really appreciate that.
• 10:24
  Speaker 5: Because it wouldn't... I don't know.
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: Hopefully, I'm not having to be there for you like
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: this in some regard, but I hope I deliver even
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: half of what you've done for me.
• 10:35
  Speaker 5: It's funny when you show.
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: Me that grief analogy because that's another thing about Chris
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: and I's relationship.
• 10:40
  Speaker 5: Chris was....
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: We both have an arrogance about us and fiance ourselves
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: a bit of intellectual. So you think you're like some
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: sort of philosophical, you know, being in times and well-read
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: or whatever, but something like that, I would have, I
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: would have shared with him and been like, this is
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: really compelling. Like if he was going through something like
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: this or I was going through it and it wasn't
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: about him, I would have shared that with him. Like,
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: this is really interesting and talk about, especially with his
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: military experience and the people he lost in that regard,
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: you know, how did you handle grief? That's what I
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: loved about our pod too. Yes, we would talk about
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: certain sports stories and we wouldn't always talk about the
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: sports stories that are like the World Series would not
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: be something we talk about because he's watching and I
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: know I'm not watching.
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: So I don't care. I don't care. It doesn't matter.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: We would talk about what in sports interest us or
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: what we think we found interesting within something. But the
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: first 20 or 30 minutes of the pod were just
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: us rapping about whatever. And that's where it's funny. A
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: lot of people listen to the podcast. That's the part
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: they enjoyed the most. They enjoyed that part the most.
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: And then let me ask you a question. Cause it
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: was just random shit. Let me ask you a question. Um,
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: so like, so that, like that grief conversation would have
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: been something that's what I was. So when you showed
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: me that I thought about him in both contexts of, yeah,
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: he is the sidecar of grief, the car next to me,
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: the carrying that grade, the reason that it's carrying that
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: grief right now and will be forever. Um, But he also...
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: I was like, man, he would have really found that interesting.
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: I would have liked to talk to him about that.
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: I would have liked to get his perspective on that.
• 12:14
  Speaker 5: So, I don't know.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: I think that was.
• 12:17
  Speaker 5: Sometimes it helps to have those type of... I don't know,
• 12:21
  Speaker 5: visualizations or management. Just so you.
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: It puts things in perspective a little bit.
• 12:27
  Speaker 5: But everybody's situation is different.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Part of why I feel.
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: And think about him every day too, is also his family.
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: It's his wife and his three kids that are still,
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: that are here and that are, you know, working through
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: this the same way. Not the same way, I imagine,
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: in a different way, but working through this. And, you know,
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: I think about them and wonder about them and, you know,
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: wonder what's going on and how they're doing and try
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: to check in. But the same way, not try to
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: be kind of like what you were saying. I don't
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: want to be over persistent. And I hate the question
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: of how are you doing? It's weird because our society
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: is told to just say, yeah, how are you doing?
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: And the people want to empathize you when they're saying that.
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: But also, at times, that has almost become triggering to me.
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: Because it's like, if the grief car right now is
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: taking a pit stop for a minute, as soon as
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: somebody kind of looks the way they look at you,
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: I'm like, how are you doing? And it's like, car's
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: right back there. And I'm like, doing okay, man. But da-da-da-da-da.
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: And you answer the question, but it just brings that
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: thing right back into focus. So when we lead that conversation...
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: And this is why I feel so bad. People are
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: doing it out of a place of goodness in their heart, empathy,
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: and concern for me. But when they leave the conversation,
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: now I'm left just sitting there with it again until
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: we move on to something else.
• 13:45
  Speaker 5: And then the car maybe was away.
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: Or like I said, it depends on what the conversation is.
• 13:49
  Speaker 5: Does that send you into a wreck again? Now you're
• 13:52
  Speaker 5: carrying it with you.
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: So it's carrying it like, has it knocked you off
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: track for the day or whatever it may be, which
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: is fine. And by again, no means is anybody trying
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: to do something wrong. I just find that I've never
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: thought about how are you doing in that context in
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: the last six weeks. I hate how are you doing?
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: Because it's different when it's innocuous. Somebody that doesn't really
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: know you.
• 14:11
  Speaker 5: Hey, how you doing?
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: We're good.
• 14:13
  Speaker 5: Rolling right through. But you know who I'm talking about.
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: They look at you and they can feel that empathy
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: and there's a touch or a love or something. I
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: know what they're asking me and they know what they're
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: asking me. And you answer it and they move on
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: with their day and I feel like shit.
• 14:27
  Speaker 5: And it's hard.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: I think it's... Yeah. It's hard for a lot of
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: reasons because....
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: Of what you just described, but also as some of
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: the people that are thinking about that or asking about that,
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: if that's their one opportunity to connect with you, I
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: think also in a way you kind of feel like
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: you're not addressing the elephant in the room.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Like, am I.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: not being respectful of the loss that I know that
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: you went through?
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Or am I not acknowledging? I know, I know you're
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: not saying it's wrong.
• 14:54
  Speaker 5: I don't think there's any other thing they're going to.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: Anybody's going to say. It's like you have to say it.
• 14:58
  Speaker 5: It just sucks.
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: It's like a double-edged sword. I don't know what else
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: to do. And I'm sure when other people I know
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: have gone through terrible situations and I ask, I've done that.
• 15:09
  Speaker 5: I'm sure I will do it. So it's like, yeah,
• 15:10
  Speaker 5: there's nothing.
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: I just find it, I found it fascinating within society
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: as I've become like, aware of it, and as I said,
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: somewhat triggered by it, but I've started to take it
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: in and pay attention to it.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Well, because it also makes you want to be like,
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: do you think I'm doing? Like, no, I'm not doing well.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: With people I really know well, I'd be like, how
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: the fuck do you think I'm doing? Like, sorry, I'm
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: going to curse on this thing. But it's just like, dude,
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: what are you doing? They're like, I'm sorry. But there
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: are a couple people I have responded to like, my bad,
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: my bad. Because they know, I'm just like, you know
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: me well, you don't need to do that. Like, you
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: can just.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: You know, I don't, I, but again, I don't know.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: It's hard to find an entry into that conversation without the, like,
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: how are you doing versus like, can we, can we
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: talk about this?
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: And then you're like, well, we're already talking about it.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: So like, yeah, I say what you have to say.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: Like, there's not, I think the reality is there's, there's
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: not a good entry into that conversation because there's never
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: going to be a good answer back on the other side.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Like, am I more okay today than I was yesterday?
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Depends on the day. Depends on the time. Depends on
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: what's happening. But that is really hard. And we had,
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: right after everything, you had ACC basketball tip-off, which was,
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: I'm sure, another full day for you of the how
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: are you doing and the questions and everything.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: I don't know, Dal.
• 16:30
  Speaker 5: It's just.
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: That wasn't... Actually, the ACC media days, I was really
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: uneasy going into it.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: You knew that.
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: And I brought my ACC Today shirt, which was the
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: name of the serious show that he and I used
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: to do. that's how I got to know him and
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: his family. So when I started doing that show with
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: him in the beginning of 2020, um, but yeah, I
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: brought the shirt. We had the captain's chair, we put
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: it there and like everybody in the serious family knew
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: Chris very well. So, and some of those coaches, obviously the,
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: you know, some of the guys, whether it be John
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: Shire at Duke or Jeff Capel, who coached with Chris
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: at Duke, there were guys that knew Chris well. And,
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: and some of the older coaches had been there for
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: a while, knew him quite well. So it was a
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: little cathartic cause we would talk about him in the interview. Um,
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: we would joke in between the interviews, some of the,
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: you know, we're telling stories. It was way more cathartic
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: than I had thought it would be. And I think
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: for all of us, all the folks that work at Sirius,
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: they're with us, the coaches that shared some time with us.
• 17:22
  Speaker 5: So it was, that was, you know, it's been, that's
• 17:28
  Speaker 5: the sad part too.
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: They're all such a sad part, but like, I wish
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: he could have felt, and everybody says you don't get
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: the flowers while you're still here. Like I wish he
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: could have seen and felt that. um, how people felt
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: about him, you know, and that's it in that room.
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: Cause we were the one, we were tucked back in
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: the back corner. So nobody was like, we weren't, and
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: I would go out to the bathroom and come back
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: or you could avoid, you could avoid a lot of
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: where you and the TV people were. You could avoid that,
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: which was way more humans. So I was almost on
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: like a little world over there where people would come
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: in and if they knew him, we would talk about
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: it and be, you know, sad and sometimes cathartic. And
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: if they didn't, we just keep doing it. And we
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: would kind of roll to the next interview. And it
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: was a much more, um, It was not nearly the
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: grind or the painful emotional experience I thought it was
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: going to be. And that's partially because of who he is, too,
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: because some of the stories some of the coaches would
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: tell are funny.
• 18:16
  Speaker 5: And we're like, their memories were reliving. We're laughing about stuff.
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: And his presence was felt. And that was much better
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: than I thought it would be.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: I feel like he had such a unique way of
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: approaching broadcast and sports journalism. He had a style that
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: was so unique and so fun and so captivating. But
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: like you said, also so intellectual. Sometimes the podcasts and
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: the jokes and the things were over my head because
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: I didn't get a lot of the references, which surprised
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: you never if I had not seen that clip or
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: known what that was about. Um, but I also, I
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: think it was when we were at the reception after
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: the funeral, I shared with somebody, or it was sometime
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: when we were down there that like, as much as
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: I respected and appreciated you and Chris's relationship, there were
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: parts of it that I couldn't fully understand. Like when
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: we were on vacation in California, it was our last
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: day of vacation and And I had worked right up
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: to the beginning.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: You came and met me up there.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: You were going to work for four straight days on
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: the road after that. We literally have no idea when
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: we're going to get any time off together again or
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: sleep or anything like that. And the night before we
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: go to bed, I think we're going to have to
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: leave for the airport at like 9 a.m., 8 or
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: 9 a.m. And the night before we go to bed,
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: you tell me you're getting up at 3.45 in the morning.
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: It's West Coast time, but yes.
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: That you're waking up at 3.45 in the morning to
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: still do your Monday podcast with Chris. And I think
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: I looked at you like you had 12 heads. I
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: was like, what are you talking about? Like, move it
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: to another day, switch it. Chris will understand.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: He won't mind.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Why would you ever get up that early?
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Skip it for this week. Like it's your last day
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: of vacation to sleep in a little bit.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: And your answer, I couldn't even argue with. I thought
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: that you were going to regret it later because I
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: thought you were going to be tired. But your answer was,
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: I just like talking to them. And I feel like
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: that hit me and stuck with me and still makes
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: me sad for you when I think about it because
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: I just know that void that you feel of those
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: conversations and what it meant to you. And that's like
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: a silly.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: A silly example of it, but to be on vacation
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: and to want to wake up just because like you said,
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: this was someone that you love talking to that much
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: and that you respected that much and that you enjoyed
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: that much. What has it been like for you trying
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: to figure out, you're not going to fill that.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: Void, but how you continue to.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: Move forward and also bring other people into your life
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: that can help, I don't know, you still feel some
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: of those things while still honoring him.
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: I've thought about this a lot. I mean, obviously the
• 21:15
  Speaker 5: pod feed is still there.
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: And part of what made that show special, and I'm
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: not talking about the podcast now, but the SiriusXM ACC
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: Today show was Chris was the host and has, it
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: was described to me when I first, you know, said
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: to him, you have a serious show?
• 21:35
  Speaker 5: He's like, yeah. I'm like, can I get on that?
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: He was, this is, we just started working together a
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: couple of years, like we were, didn't, we knew each
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: other and we enjoyed each other. Yeah, ESPN, we enjoyed
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: each other. I was in the green room, but ESPN,
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: when I asked him that, he's like, with him. And
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: he's like, oh yeah. I'm like, can I get on that?
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: He's like, you want to come on?
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah.
• 21:50
  Speaker 5: He's like, sure.
• 21:51
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: And I'm like, what does that mean? He's like, I'll
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: have Maz call you. Maz is the guy that runs
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: the sports at the Assyrius. And Maz calls the next
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: day and he's like, it's a dinner party where Chris
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: is the host. And you don't know where it's going
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: to go or what's going to happen, but you're so
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: much about sports, sometimes not.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: I think you guys would be great. I think you'll
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: be great.
• 22:06
  Speaker 5: And I'm like, all right, fine.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: And it was awesome. But there are other people that
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: are voices in that show. So to answer your question,
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: and each one of the people that he worked with,
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: why he really enjoyed doing this rotating cast is you're
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: getting different perspectives and different answers, maybe to the same question,
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: but it's leading to a way different place. And it
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: allows you to pick apart and discuss where the person went,
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: the pathology behind why they feel this way or think
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: this way. It allows you to have an agreement or
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: a difference in the same topic in the same two
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: days of a show. And those other people that were
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: those voices, Roddy Jones or Katie George or Mike Monaco
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: would be on as a guest every week and there'd
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: be different people.
• 22:42
  Speaker 5: Obviously Tony Skaggs, a producer.
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: So long winded way of answering your question is I
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: have thought like, should we do like, you know, a
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: show every month with one of those guests?
• 22:52
  Speaker 5: And it is, it is a bit remembrance of him.
• 22:55
  Speaker 5: It's a bit of funny story.
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 22:56
  Speaker 5: It's a bit of what we, me and Chris did
• 22:58
  Speaker 5: on the pod. Let's do this.
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: Can we do the same structure of the pod and
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: see how it goes? And it wouldn't be replacing him,
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: but some of those, some of the people that we
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: worked with, because they worked with Chris, they would begin
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: to communicate in ways that weren't the same as him.
• 23:17
  Speaker 5: But help me back, I'll explain this.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: As I've said this to you before, You have to
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: get the show, okay? The show is not breaking down
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: the left tackle for Florida State. That's not the show.
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: As I said earlier, that's social replay. The show is not, okay,
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: we need to have the rundown of all the big topics, LeBron,
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: the Cowboys, like it's first take. That's not the show.
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: You got to get the show. The show is, it
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: may not be the game even. It may be the
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: handshake line afterwards.
• 23:41
  Speaker 5: And why was that relevant? Well, because we saw this, that,
• 23:43
  Speaker 5: and third. It was funny. And that's where we're talking about.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Jalen breaking his leg. Did you see that video yet?
• 23:46
  Speaker 6: No.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 23:48
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: So, I mean, there are... And this is weird, too.
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: Since Chris passed, I have felt less connected to sports.
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: I've not felt the same need to look at stuff
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: online or see things that don't pertain to me about
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: what I do in my job because we might find
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: it interesting to talk about or he may send it
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: to me or I send it to him. I just
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: haven't done that. I've spent way less time on social media, period.
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: I don't think I've posted anything since I posted the
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: message about Chris. I think that's true, actually. It's probably
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: been a month, but I feel like I haven't recoiled
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: in life. I just feel like some of the things
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: that I was doing that was for the show or
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: for us, I have stopped doing that. I think I've
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: spent less time, tried to spend less time, particularly wasting
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: time on social media. I want to read articles or
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: things that I think are important. And right now, there's
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: obviously a lot of politics in the world that I
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: feel like I've put my time or energy in that
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: or just been with family and our friends. But I
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: say all this to go back Honestly, this is not
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: being like... Our show is not for you. I don't
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: think you would listen to AC Today and like, I
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: don't like this show because it's not for you. But
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: that's fine. There's a lot of people that you... What
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: are these guys talking about? You don't get the show.
• 25:05
  Speaker 5: That's fine. But I think.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Well, I literally didn't get the show. I don't have SiriusXM.
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: That too. Well, you do in one of our cars.
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: This Mercedes has it now. But that's a whole different thing.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: I got that hooked up a couple of weeks ago.
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: But I think that... For free, mind you. That's a
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: whole different story.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Um.
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: but I do think like Roddy doesn't see the world
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: the same way, but he, he gets, he was able
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: to get, he gets the show. Katie doesn't see things
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: the same way, but she gets the show and she
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: gets what she was doing as the other hosts on
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: the show. And she was fun. And there's again, Sky,
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: there's a bunch of other people. So it may be
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: trying to, and I haven't said this to any of them,
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: but I'm sure they'd want to do it. Just be
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: like once a month, like pop on or maybe.
• 25:45
  Speaker 5: Every, I don't know. We'll see.
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: But I think there's a way to kind of continue
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: the vein of the show. honor Chris, have some, some,
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: some laughs. I'm sure that things that he thought were
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: funny or funny, fun and funny. Um, and, and do
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: that and still have that void filled in my life
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: a little bit. Cause there were times when Chris would
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: go on vacation and like, I would host the serious
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: ACC show with Roddy. And it's the same now I'm
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: doing with, with, with, um, like plan to play that
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: role that Chris played.
• 26:15
  Speaker 5: So maybe the same thing. I don't know.
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: So I thought about that. It's just like in a
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: public sense, but, um, that's the hardest part of the
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: private sense. Like no, nobody's going to, there is no
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: filling that void. That void will be present forever. And
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: that's why we did the pod at all is because
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: once he stepped away from the serious show, I just
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: missed talking to him. And I was down there visiting
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: him and we went to play golf and I said,
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: we should do a pod. Like I just, and he's like, yeah,
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: we'll have big fun. And I'm like, I just missed
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: talking to you. Like it was so much fun to
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: be out there playing 18 holes with him and spending
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: that time. But It was like, it was probably the
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: 16th hole. I was becoming sacks. Like this is, we're
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: going to, I'm going to, we're going to have great
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: dinner and then I'm going to be gone. I'm like,
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: I don't want to, I don't want to do that.
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: And as we started talking about it, we went, went
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: back to his house with Jamie and, that was my
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: first ever chat GPT experience. She sat down and she goes, okay,
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: so let's break down how you guys want, what do
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: you want? Tell me what you want. She's just typing.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: She's the brains behind it all. Of course she was.
• 27:12
  Speaker 5: She's just typing.
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: She'd like, and like, she synthesizes us talking for, you know,
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: five minutes and whatever she typed, cause she thought about it.
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: Whenever she typed, of course, chat GPT synthesizes down to
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: like one paragraph. She reads it like, okay, I like that.
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: Let's work from there. And then we started refining and
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: refining and doing it. And, um, Of course, I was like,
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: this chat GPT thing. Jamie, I know you're amazing, but
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: this chat GPT thing is unbelievable. What the hell is
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: going on here?
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: They're like, why have we been holding out?
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this was three years ago. So I guess it
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: was somewhat in the beginning. But yeah, it was like
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: this time three years ago. And yeah, so it was
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: like that. Because it wasn't that he saw the world
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: the same way. It's that he had the interests. We
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: had similar interests before. And an ability, I think, to
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: communicate our thoughts and feelings and emotions about big different topics,
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: stupid small topics, and find ways to either push, prod,
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: make the other one laugh, whatever, and be able to
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: have a dynamic that we truly enjoyed. And when it
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: wasn't there, we both felt an absence that sucked.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: What's your favorite Chris story?
• 28:17
  Speaker 5: Go like this.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: I think I know the answer to it.
• 28:21
  Speaker 5: It's still there. Something on your lip.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: It's smoothie. It's smoothie.
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: Okay. You got it now.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, ask you.
• 28:30
  Speaker 5: No, we'll leave it in. We take it out. I
• 28:31
  Speaker 5: don't care.
• 28:32
  Speaker 6: I don't know.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: You were looking over like.
• 28:33
  Speaker 5: I was wondering what time it was. Take it out.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: Leftover smoothie on my face, people.
• 28:37
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: My favorite Chris story. There's, I mean, there are so many.
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: I know, I think I know the one you're going
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: to get to and I may as well. I may
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: as well tell that one in this instance because I
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: know you want me to tell it.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: You don't have to. Well, no, because it's up there.
• 28:55
  Speaker 5: It's one of my favorites.
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: But it's like for people that know it, it's like
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: their favorite story about he and I. It's not just like...
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: It's like us together. And we've had some awesome ones.
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: I saw the video. Did I send you the video
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: when he talked shit to Derek on the... walking home
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: walking home yeah that's right yeah i mean there's like
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: i found some video like literally he's.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Like delete this delete this i can't.
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: Believe i just said that he was like maligning my
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: brother actually after inviting my brother to compete the swimming
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: contest against me just nonsense after after a good meal
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: out but it's like you can't said that yeah you
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: can't say that what about what is wrong with me
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: you hear him yelling in the background um But we
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: had a lot, because that's the thing too.
• 29:35
  Speaker 5: We only got to see each other like five, six,
• 29:37
  Speaker 5: seven times a year. And we did. It was just
• 29:38
  Speaker 5: really special. It was always fun.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: Whether they are like the memories with his family like
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: playing playing f1 racing in his basement with with with
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: him and uh john david his son and the two
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: girls like said behind me and jamie standing there being like,
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: what do you guys want to eat? What's going on
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: right now? Just kind of taking it in, which was cool.
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: Or sitting on his back deck, talking about the world
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: after he gets done eating. Being at ACC Media Days,
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: having great meals out with friends and seeing different people.
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: Calling PJ Carlissimo, Hall of Fame basketball coach at 1230
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: in the morning.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Just doing weird shit. But my favorite one is we were.
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: At ACC Spring Meetings in Amelia Island down in Florida. Uh,
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: they put us up, they put all the coaches, the
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: athletic department, the basketball coaches, men's and women's football, or
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: the attendees as well as the athletic directors. Um, and
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: then a lot of the media. So you've got obviously
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: TV side is there. The radio side is there. Um,
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: and other folks and Chris comes down, we go to
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: dinner and then after we go have drinks and he's
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: wearing the shirt that has like pineapples on it and
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: some are upside down. And a coach's wife walks up
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: to us and he was a newer coach.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: Late in the night. Late in the night.
• 30:52
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: We're in the bar now. A couple of smoky old fashions. Smoky.
• 30:55
  Speaker 5: We were sucking those things down.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: I don't even drink old fashions and I had a
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: couple that night.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: I was like, this is so good.
• 31:02
  Speaker 5: Hickory and bourbon is what that place smelled like. It
• 31:04
  Speaker 5: was unbelievable. That wood was coking.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: Bartender's love with a headache for sure.
• 31:08
  Speaker 5: Oh my God. They were tired of making them.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: But this lady walks up and she's like, hey, do
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: you know what upside down pineapple means? And we're like, well, no,
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: she's like, it's a sign for swingers. And the way
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: she looked was like, can I proposition you with an
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: opportunity here, sir, to swing with me and my coach
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: husband here?
• 31:29
  Speaker 5: Who's here? He was arms like the way I was
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: just like, the hell's going on here.
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: And he's like, uh, no, it's not familiar with that.
• 31:36
  Speaker 5: And they're like, so then when people around, we like,
• 31:38
  Speaker 5: do you know this?
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: Do you know this?
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: Like, We started asking everybody. We started asking everybody. But
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: it did begin with the creepy proposition. And then that
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: lady was floating around and I was keeping eyes on
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: her because I'm like, what's going to happen here? What
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: does she think this is going to happen? What does
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: she think is going to go down here? This is
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: so weird. And I'm like, your husband's there. What's going on? Obviously,
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: maybe he's got to be into this in some regard.
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: This is very strange. But of course, Chris turns down
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: some proposition. And then we were walking around just asking
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: everybody else like, What the hell's going on here?
• 32:07
  Speaker 5: Do you know what this is? And it starts to
• 32:09
  Speaker 5: be a joke.
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: There were a couple of female basketball coaches that knew
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: and were very excited about talking about it. That was
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: very fun. A lot of the male coaches were unaware.
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: A couple were. Football coaches, very much no clue. I
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: don't think I asked any of them.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: So they say.
• 32:22
  Speaker 5: So they say.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: I'm just kidding.
• 32:23
  Speaker 5: I think we also, yeah, you know what it is.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: Come on.
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: But obviously his shirt was the talk of the whole bar.
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: And not that he really enjoyed that. So we're walking out.
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: I'm like, dude, we got it. We're playing golf the
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: next day. And I'm like, I think we got to
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: shut it down. Rarely do I say I'm like, we're
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: leaving early. We left a full bar. He's like, yeah,
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: let's get out of here. So we walked down the
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: hall and he's like, you know what?
• 32:46
  Speaker 5: F this man.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: My shirt, they hate on my shirt.
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: She starts gearing down as the elevator doors are open
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: to the Ritz.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: His shirt now is off. And I get him like, well, I.
• 32:56
  Speaker 5: Said, I'm coming with you, brother.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: I take my shirt off too.
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: And then next thing you know, we're standing there shirtless
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: and the elevator is still open. And we walk, people
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: are walking towards us. We were like, just waved and
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: just like, we got to shut the door. I can't
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: stand with two random people with me and you shirtless
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: in the elevator. And they weren't part of the event.
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: We don't know who the hell they were. So the
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: door shut. And of course we took a picture to
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: commemorate it, which he loved to always say that picture.
• 33:18
  Speaker 5: God, my chest is so bony. My chest is so bony.
• 33:22
  Speaker 5: Look at you. I was like, Oh my God. So
• 33:25
  Speaker 5: we go, we go to bed.
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: The next day I can say we're playing golf. I
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: get up early, do my normal workout thing. I'm trying
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: to shake off the hangover.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: We're playing.
• 33:33
  Speaker 5: We're on like the third hole. And finally I tee off, man,
• 33:37
  Speaker 5: game just really, it's not good, right?
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: Sucks.
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: He's like, I don't care about your game, man. You
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: didn't say anything about my shirt. And I look at
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: him and he's.
• 33:44
  Speaker 5: Wearing the pineapple shirt.
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: He took it out of the trash. He took it
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: out of the trash. The man was committed to the bit.
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: And he was mad at me because I didn't recognize that.
• 33:53
  Speaker 5: He's like, are you serious, bro?
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: I was out for three holes. You keep talking about
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: your workout and all.
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: This other stuff, but I'm wearing the shirt and not
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: a single comment.
• 34:01
  Speaker 5: And I was like, oh man, I'm so sorry. That
• 34:03
  Speaker 5: is so freaking funny.
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: And we do a picture at the end of that
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: round as well with the pineapple shirt commemorated.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: You guys should have played shirtless the rest of the round.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: Oh, God.
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: He was so mad. It was so funny. He was
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: so annoyed. It took a good hole for him to
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: wear it. I'm like, dude, I'm really sorry. It's a
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: great bit. It's a great bit. But it was even better,
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: I think, because I didn't recognize it.
• 34:23
  Speaker 5: That was one of my favorite stories.
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: Because it has, obviously, the ridiculousness of it, the fun,
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: the fact that he could be bothered by one little...
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: He now was annoyed at the fact that his shirt
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: became the topic of whole conversation.
• 34:33
  Speaker 5: And then that I missed a bit. He got too
• 34:34
  Speaker 5: mad at me, too.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: I can't believe that he put on the trash and
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: wearing it the next day after all of that.
• 34:39
  Speaker 5: That was hilarious, dude.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: And then I can't remember if it was that weekend
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: or the weekend after I got on the plane and
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: there was a guy in the exact same shirt.
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: I was dying. I texted it to you guys. That
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: was like a week or two after. It was not
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: that same trip. I was like, oh my gosh, that's unbelievable.
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: But there are people that were part of that event
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: that still bring up pineapple. If they see pineapple shirts,
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: I've gotten some texts. But that discussion and that story
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: has been told time and time again.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: It was making its rounds that day and it was...
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: quite the spectacle I.
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: Mean the rest of the weekend we kept asking people
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: do you know what upside down pineapple I know but
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: like this just goes to show that now we can't
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: judge people who know what it is because we know
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: what it is so many people people so many people
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: know what it is now that doesn't mean that you
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: intimately know what it is know.
• 35:23
  Speaker 6: What it is you don't know no you know you're
• 35:26
  Speaker 6: just like you know casually now um I thought that
• 35:30
  Speaker 6: would be where you went but I wasn't sure because
• 35:32
  Speaker 6: you guys do have a good a lot of them
• 35:34
  Speaker 6: um Sorry, this is just turning into a question and answer.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: I'm like the host and you're the first guest that
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: we've had on the podcast.
• 35:42
  Speaker 5: We've had a hiatus, so go ahead.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: What do you feel like you've learned the most from this?
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: What's your takeaway about life and loss and love and friendships?
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: Is there anything in particular you can pinpoint?
• 36:03
  Speaker 5: It's not that I.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: learned it i think because i think this has been
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: a process part of what made us so close last
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: couple year five years or so is we were both
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: going through our own like therapeutic journeys like mine's going
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: through a separation a divorce a failure as i felt
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: as a partner and as a um in a failed
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: marriage and seeing all the problems around that like i
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: think going through therapy um helped me see things about myself,
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: about my life and things I wanted and found in
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: you and our family and how I'm doing things like
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: this podcast that I never would have ever, ever, ever, ever,
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: ever imagined doing. Tell anybody how I feel or my
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: emotions in any real way. But we were both going
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: through our own journey. So we would share a lot
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: of that stuff and we became very communicative about how
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: we felt about one another. Like I loved him, he
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: loved me and there was never a question about it.
• 36:56
  Speaker 5: I think.
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: And in the last couple of years, I have communicated
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: that more to guys that I love and care about.
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: But I feel like the last six weeks, it's become
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: like hyper present in my mind to like tell the
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: people and mostly men, because let's feel like there are,
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: you know, that's how I've been different. The women in
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: my life that I love, I've told that to, maybe
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: not as much as I should actually think about it.
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: Like maybe I need to text my mom every day.
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: Maybe I don't, you know, there's some... But I think
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: being communicative about how you feel about the people around
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: you has been present in my heart and mind.
• 37:38
  Speaker 5: The other thing I think is.
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: There are a lot of people that I'm fortunate a
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: lot of people care about me that I could lean
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: on a lot of people. And not that I didn't
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: know that before, but I think it's, it was been
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: a reminder that a lot of people in my life want,
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: in our life, honestly, want to help if they can
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: help or care or let you know that they care.
• 38:12
  Speaker 5: And I think that's part of.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: When you're going through some shit or you have your
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: own self-perception, you can lose sight of that. And you
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: can think people don't care or not that concerned or
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: don't want don't want to show up for you in
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: some way. I think there were people just all out
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: of the, you know, relationships I hadn't, I've had, but
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: haven't talked to as much recently, you know, reaching out
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: and wanting to less about the, like we said before, Hey,
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: is that, Hey, how are you doing? It was just like,
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: I'm here like that. I'm here for you. And just
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: let me know, like shoot the shit or give me,
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: send me a text or whatever, or, and have followed up.
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: I mean, Coach Tom Crean, who coached at Marquette and
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: then at Indiana and Georgia, and we worked together at
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: ESPN in between that, Georgia. We've worked at ESPN for,
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: I guess, five years, six years now in between those
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: last two coaching stints. I'm just blown away when I
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: think about how much he has meant to me and
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: helped me through this process. Just constantly reaching out with
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: thoughts or advice. And that's where I think it's not
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: like he's, He's not checking in to ask questions. He's
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: checking in to give guidance, to coach through this. And
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: I can't say thank you enough. And I can't tell
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: how meaningful it has been. that in real ways, he
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: is showing up for me and giving me thoughts or
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: encouragement or calls or a shoulder to cry on at
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: the funeral too. Whatever it was, he was there. And
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: he's been a.
• 39:44
  Speaker 5: Great friend. But again, there are people in your life
• 39:47
  Speaker 5: that you know you're close with, but they.
• 39:50
  Speaker 5: Just show up.
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: And that's been, I guess, reassuring in some regard that
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: people cared enough and would spend their time and their
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: energy wanting to make sure I'm okay and try to
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: help me. Not through it, but help you just to
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: be there, to be there with you and in it
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: a little bit. So I don't think it's a great
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: answer to your question about learning, but sometimes those reminders
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: from one is for me about how, how I need
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: to behave towards others. And the other one was just how,
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: you know, the goodness of people.
• 40:28
  Speaker 5: That are in my life is pretty special. I'm very
• 40:30
  Speaker 5: grateful for that.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: I was wondering if you could share about him. That was,
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: it's been really cool to hear the ways that he's
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: opened up to you and impacted you and just been
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: there for you and, and see that, you know, we
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: talked a lot, before this and over the last year
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: and a half or so about pain and like finding
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: the purpose in the pain and trying to like, when
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: nothing makes sense, like when will it make sense and
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: what does tomorrow hold and what is around the next.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: Corner when you don't know.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: And whether it's been through some of the pregnancy losses
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: that we've had or some of the losses my family
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: had had or just things that we've gone through as
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: a couple and as a family, I think for a
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: long time I was searching for like what is, like why?
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: Like what is the purpose of the pain?
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: And I've learned that why is not a question you're
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: ever really going to be able to answer when it
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: comes to some of the hardest things in life. But
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: I did get to a point where I felt like,
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: and part of it is having a healthy pregnancy so
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: far and getting pregnant again so soon after our second loss,
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: that you do start feeling that hopeful and you feel
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: a little bit of the page turn of like, the
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: grief isn't gone, but.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: You're looking forward to what's next.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: Part of the, for me, the finding the purpose and
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: the pain is, in all of this was that I
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: really feel like we, and you have been more grounded
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: in faith and by proxy life and all of these things.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: And I say that to say, like, I thought that,
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: I don't know that we've like fully talked about this
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: since Chris, I thought that like, for me, the purpose
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: and the pain was like, you, you, coming back and
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: exploring your spirituality and wanting to go to church and
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: being open to that and feeling something and wanting to
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: learn and connect and do more because.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: Of everything that we've been through.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: But I also feel like I've never been more grateful
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: that all of that happened to bring you to that
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: before this with Chris. Mm-hmm.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: Because I feel like.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: When we met really early, or not met, but when
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: we started dating really early on, I remember, and we've
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: talked about on the podcast, one of the things that
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: you said is like you had looked at, I think
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: it was another couple or some friends that you had,
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: and you were almost envious of the way that they
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: were grounded through some unimaginable loss, tragedy, hardship in their
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: faith and how that was what they leaned on. And
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: you were almost a little envious of like that piece
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: of life that you didn't have. So I'm just curious, like,
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, I know I've seen you lean into your
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: faith and I think that you've certainly felt it and
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: I'm sure you've still questioned God and said why, and
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: that's a hard thing to reckon with when like it
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: doesn't make sense and it hurts, but that at least
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: you're still feel like you have something to turn to.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: For me, I thought it was everything that we've been
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: through before, but now I feel like it was a
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: bigger picture of like all of the hard before was
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: grounding us so that when this unimaginable new loss was
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: going to come through that you at least already had
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: somewhat of a foundation?
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: Uh, maybe that was the case. I mean, I, I don't, um,
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: I am grateful that I'm in the, that at least,
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: you know, I have, it's, it's weird. I don't know
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: how to answer this because I have, I mean, we've
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: talked about it on this pod and separately that I've
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: set up as envious of people's faith in those moments.
• 44:15
  Speaker 5: Um, I think it's been important for sure.
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: Uh, but I think it's beyond just like the, the,
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: the spirituality or piece of it or faith or, you know,
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: explore relationship with Jesus. I do think it's like church,
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: but the community of people there, we don't know a
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: lot of people there. Um, but the week after we
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: went to church and, um, for some reason, for some reason,
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: maybe there's a reason that, In that sermon, we were
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: supposed to be, they were explaining how Paul and Barnabas
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: used to work together to spread the gospel very early
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: on in the church. And they were really inseparable. And
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: Barnabas' role was to spur Paul on and help change Paul,
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: who used to be Saul. And if you know your Bible,
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: then I'm not going to go into it. If you don't,
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: take a read. I'm not a preacher. But I do
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: think that the sermon was that you know, you need
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: a Barnabas in your life. He helped guide one of
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: the most impactful, you know, figures in the Bible and
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: in history is St.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: Paul.
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: And that was, you know, Barnabas helping him get there.
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: And they went their separate ways after a period of time.
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: And his sermon was, I want you to turn and
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: talk to somebody and meet somebody and.
• 45:31
  Speaker 5: Get to know their story a little bit.
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: And maybe that helps you be a Barnabas to them,
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: or maybe like you can be, it's connecting with somebody else,
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: but the goal is to To either be somebody there
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: to encourage and support one another or to receive that.
• 45:43
  Speaker 5: Maybe you need that in a moment.
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: Maybe you need to be the recipient and that'll help
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: you go out in the world.
• 45:50
  Speaker 5: And you turn and talk to the guy next to us.
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: I happened to turn back and there was a guy
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: that was an usher and a younger dude that's named M1.
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: And we started talking. And it was like, hey, I
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: just lost one of my best friends. And he's like
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: right away that empathy and impact. And when it is
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: grounded in faith and he's talking about Jesus and he's
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: talking about, I'm gonna pray for you. And I saw
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: him two weeks later, the first thing that guy says
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: to me, I've been praying for you. Like that's, you know,
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: that I think is what you can feel the absence
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: of when you're not like for, you know, 20, almost
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: my whole life. Like when I was in the Catholic church,
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: I felt like I was just in the Catholic church.
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: It wasn't like I was leaning on that at all.
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: But I think from the age of 18 to 41, 42,
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: you're just kind of out there. And I do think
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: decisions I made, how I conducted myself as an individual,
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: in my 20s living by myself as a younger person
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: in a marriage, just all these things where it's just totally.
• 46:50
  Speaker 5: There was no grounding. There was no mooring to anything.
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: There was just a lot of desires to want to
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: do this, to want to have this money, want to
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: be this and want to be famous and all this
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: other shit. It just doesn't matter. And I think what's
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: been the most impactful thing over the last six or
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: seven months is A, trying to lean into... For me,
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: it's not been exploring why as much. I don't think
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: I ask God why if something bad happens as much.
• 47:17
  Speaker 5: I think it's more for me.
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: And they ran one of these videos earlier on when
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: it wasn't about knowing, it's about surrendering. And for somebody
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: like me, that's really freaking hard to do. But it's like,
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: all right, maybe you don't have to know, or you
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: don't have to have the answer, which again, it's really
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: hard for me to do. But what if you just
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: allow yourself to let go and just kind of feel
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: it and go with it and be part of what's
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: going on there and feel the energy and listen to
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: the scripture and listen to the sermon and think about
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: how that impacts your life and thinks about how you
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: should operate, how that should impact you from the inside out.
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: And that's kind of how I've approached it. And I
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: think that having Emma sit there and listen to my
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: story while I'm crying in church and him truly feel.
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: And again, that again, when I say that before about
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: like those people that are there for you, a lot
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: of them are close friends, but it's a guy that
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: I just met 10 seconds ago, but we had that connection.
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: And then he's going out there and see him two weeks.
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: He couldn't wait to tell me. He's like, Hey, I
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: see you.
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: I'm brave.
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: I didn't see you last week because we were traveling,
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: but he like, I was like, yeah, man, thank you
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: so much. And I've thought about him and he's got
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: his own struggles and seems like he's kind of disconnected
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: from his native country. And, but he's, he, He's a
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: guy that I don't even know that's out there trying
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: to make me feel better about a traumatic loss. And
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: I think that's the part of the religion and the
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: church community that I think is really been helpful at
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: this point in time. Even when I go in there,
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: you're alone, but you don't feel alone. I went by
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: myself yesterday. You feel connected to people with the collective
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: belief or mission or positivity. There's an energy about it
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: that I think has been great. I think it's been... Helpful,
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: because I do think going through this situation without, you know,
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: leaning into faith or leaning into the community piece of it,
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: or just, you can, when you're more to nothing, I
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: think the pain is just a lot, it's even greater,
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: and you feel like there's just nothing.
• 49:12
  Speaker 5: Out there. It's like, then I feel like I ask
• 49:14
  Speaker 5: why more, because.
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: There's no, it's like, why, what's the point type shit
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: versus like, okay, this is something that... How do I
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: then try to show up for now and in the future?
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: How do we carry Chris forward? How do I act
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: in ways that I think would have made him proud?
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: How do I do things hopefully that can help his
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: family and his kids as they continue to get older?
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: How do you do these things that I think are just...
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: like the person that I want to be and what
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: would I think I focus on more post getting back
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: into like going through like a faith journey that I
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: just don't think we're as top of mind. And it's
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: just more like how I want to live my life
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: and less concerned with.
• 49:54
  Speaker 5: The other shit, the small shit. Um, it just doesn't matter.
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: I think that was, that consumed my life before where
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: now it's like, um, I'm speaking on both sides of
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: my mouth. That's what makes it even harder to lose
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: a friend like him. Cause that's like, I feel like
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: that's what I truly value now is like our family,
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: our life, you know, I, what do we want to do?
• 50:15
  Speaker 5: We talk about this in the pod. What do we
• 50:16
  Speaker 5: want our goals to be like professionally? I don't know.
• 50:18
  Speaker 5: I don't know if I even care right now.
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: Like I want to make sure I want us to
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: enjoy our, like make a money, make enough money, but
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: like just to, so we can enjoy each other. So
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: we get to enjoy our, our friends and our family
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: and like, and get to celebrate one another and just
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: be together. It's like the biggest priority. So, that's like
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: the saddest, one of the saddest things of losing a
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: friend like that. It's like, as you're coming to this
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: point in life where it's like, obviously it's gonna be
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: the first time he was ever going to come up here,
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: had a chance to come up here.
• 50:43
  Speaker 5: And we like made that a priority.
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: Like I would have thought that would be, you know,
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: I would be, we were going to go, I would
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: go down there in the spring or do something like,
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: I don't know. We were just going to, I'm just
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: talking now, but like, I feel like we would have
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: like the most important thing in the world or the
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: people you have in the world. And yeah, I think
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: that part of what going to church has helped clarify
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: that for me. And also going through a loss like
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: that makes it that much more painful. But I do
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: think having faith to lean on our community and yourself
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: has been instrumental and, you know, just kind of putting
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: one foot in front of the other. Cause that first
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: like couple of weeks, it's felt like my, like it's
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: just struggling for motivation. I think it was like, what
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: is pushing me to go forward? And I think part
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: of that was just trying to be faithful and be,
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: try to find a positive or try to feel the
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: positivity in the institution and then faith to help kind
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: of move forward.
• 51:37
  Speaker 5: I don't know if I just said anything.
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: You did. You said a lot.
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: You keep saying things that I've done for you and
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: I appreciate that, but I don't necessarily feel that. But
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: I think more than anything, I'm just so grateful for
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: you and so proud of you.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: I was so.
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: Blown away by how many people wanted to come up
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: to talk to you to tell you about how much
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: what you posted on the podcast on social replay meant
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: to them to see you open up and to see
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: you share that. And like so many grown men were like,
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: this is everything that I was feeling that I couldn't
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: articulate or like you hit this on the head. I
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: hope that you realize and feel how much you sharing
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: And you saying things out loud and you telling people
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: you love them and you encouraging people to do all
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: these things. It matters and it makes an impact just
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: for people to have that example. And it's a way
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: to honor Chris and continue his legacy. And you're doing
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: it through that. And you're talking about what it meant
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: to have a male relationship that was... Sometimes very lighthearted
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: and jokey and whatever other intellectual word that you guys
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: would describe it.
• 52:53
  Speaker 5: We would definitely say jokey.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: Go ahead.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: But also just had so much depth and so much
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: vulnerability and honesty. And you've shared, you guys didn't always
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: agree on everything.
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: And sometimes there were tough moments too, but talking through that.
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: So I'm just.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: I'm really proud of you and the way that you
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: have tried to navigate this. I know it's not easy.
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: It's never going to be easy. I know it's something
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: that you're going to continue to feel every day. But
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: I do think that hearing from you as someone who
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: was lucky enough to know him and love him so
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: much on such a personal level is something that I
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: think has meant a lot to other people as well
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: and hopefully helps them in their healing too. Because as
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: you said, there were so many people who loved him.
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: There are so many people who love him and that
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: are going to feel this loss for a really long time.
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: Most importantly is his family and his wife and his kids.
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: Um, but.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: Anyways, I just wanted to tell you that cause I
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: don't know that I've, I've said that to you that I,
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: it has definitely made a difference for, for people. And
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: I think is another way that you're not even intentionally,
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: but you are honoring him.
• 54:08
  Speaker 5: Well, thanks baby. I appreciate that.
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: Um, and yeah, I hope some things that we talk
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: about or I say, and there are some people that
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: reached out and social media, which I actually just saw,
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: I missed some messages like last, uh, cause I haven't
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: been on as much and I missed a couple of
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: different people reaching out that had a relationship with Chris
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: in some regard and, um, just wanted to talk. So
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: one guy sent me an email this morning and I
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: was like, yeah, whatever I can do to help if
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: I don't, I don't know, don't know these people. And
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: some of them came up to you mentioned, as you
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: mentioned at the, at the funeral, which, um, It was
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: nice to get to meet them. His brother-in-law, Patrick, Chris's brother-in-law, Patrick,
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: and his wife, Heather, we got to spend some time with.
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: It's a silver lining, but hopefully we will maintain a
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: relationship with Patrick and Heather and get to share some
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: moments and times in the future with them that may
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: not have happened. There are maybe some other relationships and
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: people that will come into our life now because of
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: this loss that are, um, maybe it's helpful for them,
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: probably helpful for us. Um, but it'll be like a
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: weird silver lining here, I guess.
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Um, I have just a quick pivot that is
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: going to be twofold that first of all, this is
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: probably for a later date, but you did mention that you, um,
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: yesterday went to church by yourself. Um, That was because
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: I was at soccer with Dave. Something that I think
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: we can probably have a lively conversation about in the
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: future is. youth sports and two-year-old soccer. Maybe not right now.
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to just barely wind you up before
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: I get to what I'm really getting to.
• 55:49
  Speaker 5: Real quick on that.
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: Just because on that day, I did text when we
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: were at the practice.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: I texted Derek.
• 55:55
  Speaker 5: We were at practice watching this two-year-old soccer practice.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: Oh, the first day.
• 55:58
  Speaker 5: First day.
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: I was bitching to Derek and Chris Murphy, two of
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: my other really good friends. And Derek's response goes... Dude,
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: you and the captain would have been so great on this.
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: I would have loved to hear you and Spatola go
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: at those two.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: I think I would have had to be a guest, though,
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: to fit for myself.
• 56:18
  Speaker 5: A little bit.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God.
• 56:19
  Speaker 5: I was just like... This is so brutal.
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: And I would love.
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: Because me and him have gone on about youth sports
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: before on the pod. But that experience, I was like,
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: I need my dude for this.
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: This is a rant I want to have.
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: That's something that we could do together because that was
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: like the most terrible experience ever.
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: Yesterday was better.
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: And I'm trying to just still give it a chance
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: for days. Because he does think that it's really cool.
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: He has this little shirt. He thinks it's cool to
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: wear his little cleats and to be out there. He
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: definitely needs to be in the older age group, not
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: the one where he's like the oldest.
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: But this is the problem, okay? This is what's different about...
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: This is where it's like you don't get the show.
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: The show to me is not about is Dace happy
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: or is Dace enjoying it.
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: My whole issue is the parents and society. And I
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: want to yell about that. Well, you're worried, is our
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: kid having fun? Yeah, to me, two things can.
• 57:07
  Speaker 5: Be true at the same time.
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: I know, but I can also do both.
• 57:09
  Speaker 5: Dace can enjoy it and have fun.
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: I have a serious issue with the idiots that we
• 57:14
  Speaker 3: are as a society participating in this. And he would
• 57:17
  Speaker 3: be going nuts with me. And I just need to
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: hear it, but I can't hear it.
• 57:22
  Speaker 5: And it sucks.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: No, I'm sorry. Go ahead. What was the other part
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: you wound me up?
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we'll see about that in a future date.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: The other part was apologizing to everybody in advance. If
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: you hear me over here huffing and puffing like a,
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: racehorse as I just try to like breathe in life
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: sitting up and like I'm only five and a half
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: months pregnant now I can't breathe.
• 57:44
  Speaker 5: Ever did I have a dream I think I had
• 57:47
  Speaker 5: a dream last night you had the baby.
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: Oh wow well let's not make that into reality we
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: have did have a little yard visit the other day
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: it was a little stressful.
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: Like you made it of time and like this is
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: why I remember it Is before you were just so large.
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: You were so unhappy. That's what I struck. I remember
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: being like... In your dream? In my dream. Not in reality, right?
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: She's so unhappy.
• 58:09
  Speaker 5: And then it was like two minutes later, the baby's gone.
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: And you were like.
• 58:11
  Speaker 5: It was like you were deflated and you felt better.
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. It's weird.
• 58:15
  Speaker 5: I didn't see a baby. We didn't like nothing. I
• 58:17
  Speaker 5: don't know what happened there. It's like you just.
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: I think this baby must be higher than it was
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: last time. And when we had to go to the
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: doctor unexpectedly the other day, we did find out that
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: it had flipped, which I was like, is that concerning?
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: But I think it's still literal enough. It can keep flipping.
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: So I think the feet are up here.
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: When I'm like sitting up in a chair, I can't...
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: It's like I have to... to be way back here
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: to like open everything up. So I feel like I'm
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: over here huffing and puffing. I'm emceeing this event in
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: Vegas for four days next week.
• 58:43
  Speaker 5: I thought you were going to say this podcast.
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: I'm emceeing this podcast.
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: No, but when I was speaking to the baseball team
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: at Charleston Southern a few weeks ago, just standing up
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: there and like kind of talking, I was like a
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: little bit out of breath and I was like, am
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: I okay? And I thought, what am I going to
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: do for these four days in Vegas when I'm doing
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: this conference?
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: And I'm up there like gasping for air. So I
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: feel great is the short of it.
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: But like I'm not, if you hear me breathing like
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: a fat kid, it's just there's like a foot here
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: or something.
• 59:12
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 59:13
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I'm glad you told the audience that.
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: I can't tell because I have listened to pods before.
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: I keep moving the mic. Can somebody cut.
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: This guy's mic because he's breathing into it so heavily.
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: Trying to get a big breath of air. I mean,
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: I got to tell you this yesterday though. I did
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: hold this back. and maybe because you were walking to
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: get your food set up, but when you actually sat
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: down to eat, that was the loudest meal I'd ever
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: heard in my entire life.
• 59:33
  Speaker 5: I don't know what was going on up there.
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: It was like, wind, wind.
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: I was like, it's like a mix of snoring and eating.
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: I don't know what was going on. What meal? You
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: were eating lunch. I was just like, this is unbelievable.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: I can't breathe.
• 59:47
  Speaker 5: Maybe it was Friday.
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: I was just like, what is going on with this
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: consumption of food right now?
• 59:52
  Speaker 5: But I didn't say anything because my wife's pregnant. But
• 59:54
  Speaker 5: you brought it up now.
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: But I was like, okay, she's struggling to breathe.
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: Also, my nose, your blood vessels swell. And so my nose,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: I can't breathe.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 5: Lots happening. Lots happening. But I'll tell you what, that
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 5: food was good.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: I love being pregnant.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: Have small complaints and then the other last thing that
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: I think we should get into more in the future
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: because we had just shared obviously about being pregnant was
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: the great husband that you are when I said do
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: you want me to share I'm thinking about something that's
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: stressing me out do you want me to share my
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: stress with you or do you want me to keep
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: it to myself and you said so kindly no you
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: can share it with me and I was like in
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: three and a half months we're going to have a
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: baby and you looked at me and said do.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 5: You remember You could have left that out.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: I could have done without that.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: We got a lot.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: To do in the next three and a half months.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 4: I thought I was more helping you through your stress.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 4: I didn't know you were going to share the burden
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: of stress. Throw it right at you. I was going
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 4: to come at you and I was going to stick
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 4: with you as well. We can break that down, some
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 4: of it, on the very next podcast. I appreciate you
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 4: being vulnerable, sharing your TFVs, baby.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: We didn't even get to yours, so I'm sorry about that.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: Thank you for emceeing my TFX. Of course, I love you.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: Thanks for sharing. More to come next week.