Latest / The YMyHealth Podcast | Wellness and Healthcare Insights for Millennials / Redefining Cancer Support for Men with Jay Abramovitch on Man Up to Cancer
Transcript
- 00:02 Melissa Schenkman Welcome to the YMyHealth podcast, a healthcare podcast created by millennials for millennials. I'm Melissa Schenkman. 00:08 Julie Woon And I'm Julie Woon. We're two members of Gen Y on a mission to tackle the health challenges unique to people in their 20s, 30s, and 40s. 00:16 Melissa Schenkman With inspiring Survivor stories, plus insights and practical advice from experts across the country. We've got you covered. 00:22 Julie Woon Whether you're navigating a chronic condition, cancer, or challenges to your mental health, or. 00:27 Melissa Schenkman You'Re trying to manage our complicated healthcare system and your preventive or just want to make smarter healthcare choices, this is the podcast for you. 00:37 Julie Woon Let's get started. Hi, everyone, and welcome back to the why My Health podcast. I am today's co host, Julie Woon. And today I am joined by a special guest, Jay Abramovich. He joins us from the man up to Cancer organization. He's the director of the Gathering of the Wolves retreat and he is also a colon cancer survivor. So he's going to speak today about his experience personally as well as educate us a little bit about man up to Cancer and the Gathering of the Wolves retreat. So welcome to the podcast, Jay. 01:10 Jay Abramovitch Yeah, thank you. I'm super excited to be here and can't wait to get the conversation going and see where it goes. 01:16 Julie Woon Well, maybe let's just start off with having you tell the listeners a little bit about what man up to Cancer is and what the mission is all about. 01:24 Jay Abramovitch Oh, absolutely. I mean, I can talk about this for a very long time, but I'll try to sum it up for you. But essentially, man up to Cancer is it's a grassroots organization, a hundred percent focused on supporting men affected by cancer, whether they're patients, caregivers. It does not matter the type of cancer, the stage, whether they are just at the start of the journey in the mental. Long term, it doesn't matter if you're a guy or identify as a guy affected by cancer in some way and you're over the age of 18. We gotcha. Plus, our whole purpose is to really provide support. So don't isolate during a cancer experience. You know, the whole when the fan, Trevor Maxwell kind of started, like, I know the whole man up thing. Right. 02:08 Jay Abramovitch You could look at that and people might hear like, oh, there's just another cliche going on. But actually the whole meaning behind that is to actually man up, which means asking for help when you need it. Right? Right. Not avoiding it, not pretending nothing's wrong. And there's lots out there now that speaks to when you immerse yourself In a community, when going through something like cancer and you get that emotional connection and support actually has, like, a tremendous quality of life. Right. And in some instances, there's some outcome of disease as well. So. Yeah. So our main focus is just support men out there, and we do that in various ways that I'm sure we'll get into. But that is man up to cancer in a nutshell. 02:44 Julie Woon Amazing. And you were diagnosed at 36 back in 2020 with stage 3 colon cancer, correct? 02:51 Jay Abramovitch Yep. 02:52 Julie Woon What was going through your mind during that period of time? 02:55 Jay Abramovitch I was one of the lucky folks that got cancer and the pandemic at the same time. So if we go back to 2020, I was, you know, dead smart in the middle, like, kind of in that real peak of everything going on with COVID 19, and I'm up in Canada. So, like, our experiences might have been a little bit different, But I know here, Jim Edwell lockdowns were, like, in full force, and hospitals were pretty like. I went through my whole cancer experience the first two years essentially by myself. You know, my wife is super supportive, but Covid and a cancer diagnosis when they're 36 is kind of when it rains and pours, I guess you could say. But, Yeah, I was 36. It came out of absolutely nowhere. I'm always, you know, that typical healthy, active kind of person. 03:38 Jay Abramovitch No of the contributing factors at all, like, none. There's no colon cancer in my family. Say I had really come out of nowhere. He's a pretty big chef. 03:46 Julie Woon It totally makes sense. And I was looking at some of your bio online and on the cancer website, and in it, you describe yourself as one of the kind of like, forgotten ones in the cancer world in the case of being, you know, kind of this younger person with what has been as many of the people we talked to considered an old person's cancer, for lack of a better term, and a man. And you talked a little bit about how already know man up to cancer starts to address this. I was curious if you could elaborate just, like, a little bit more on those feelings of kind of being the forgotten one and what that meant to you. 04:18 Jay Abramovitch Yeah. So I guess it ties in. But I also kind of just wanted to mention that man up to cancer is only five years old. Right. And we. And currently we're the only organization in north America and beyond, for all we know, that actually focuses solely on supporting men through cancer. So. So we know that guys have been getting cancer way before five years ago. Right. So obviously it's, you know, it's clearly a huge gap in the system. And I know we're coming from different countries, but it's the same thing, right? Like our healthcare systems are different, but we very many, we see very much the same gaps, the same trends. Like we're neighbors, right? So very like a lot of things really do apply. So I think being a guy was already kind of unique in the cat. 05:00 Jay Abramovitch Not that men don't get cancer, but there's nothing that is really focused on guys. Right. Like, I remember early on, like you go into a camp cancer center and 99% of the staff are women, all the social workers are women. If you go to a support group, I was one of maybe two guys there. Right. And then there's the fact of being 36, right. When you're super young in the prime of your life and really in the cancer space, it is majority. You know, it's that like 50, 60 plus ish kind of category that you really see or that's really represented in a lot of the support programs and organizations. So I think I got like a double whammy with that one, being young and being a guy. 05:38 Jay Abramovitch But the one thing that I guess the silver lining in it was the way I kind of chose to navigate my journey and where it led me is, you know, now I get to bring awareness to that. Right. And it's becoming more talked about and we're making a lot of the young onset folks over the last couple of years specifically like, and I'm going to say North America because I have a lot of friends in the US and all kind of do this collaboratively. And I know for colon cancer, especially in the last couple years, like we've been making a lot of noise, right. Like there's been a lot of stories coming out. I don't know, the media has really been looking at it. Like I've done a few pretty big headline stories here, like locally. 06:14 Jay Abramovitch I know a lot of people in the States as well. So even in the five years that I've been in this space, I've seen a shift, which is really good. But it's also kind of scary that it's taken this long. Right. For anything to happen and there's really not close to enough. Like we're really just making noise at this point, which is the start, but we're really nowhere significant yet. 06:35 Julie Woon Totally. So how did you end up finding man up to cancer? Were you looking for some kind of support groups or were you just. Yeah. Trying to find any sense of community out there. 06:45 Jay Abramovitch Yeah, so many Folks when they first get diagnosed, right. Like, I had a really big sense of, like, a loss of control, and everything was kind of crumbling around me, and I didn't really know what was going to happen. So I knew that I needed to connect somehow with somebody or a group or a community or something that understood or could provide me a little bit of guidance and people that just get it. So fortunately, here, where I'm from, locally, we have an incredible cancer foundation that's an offshoot from the hospital. And I was able to access a lot of free services there. And they're. 07:20 Jay Abramovitch Yeah, they're a nonprofit Seattle Cancer foundation, or vault, and they have a program called, like, Cancer System Navigators, where you get to meet with them based on kind of, like, what your needs are, what you're feeling, what kind of support you want. They actually help, like, direct you in directions and, like, suggest organizations and support groups and places to go to get what you're looking for. And I was pointed initially to an amazing organization in Canada called Young Adult Cancer Canada. And through there, a couple guys reached out to me, like, super early on because they had, like, online chats because it was during the pandemic at that point. So a couple guys messaged me privately and were like, hey, you gotta check out this man with the cancer thing. It's, like, might sound a bit weird, it's this guy's online platform, but it's. 08:04 Jay Abramovitch It's amazing. You gotta check it out. You know, as you can imagine, and how we, like, we see this every day within our community is getting guys to, like, take that step and actually do it is hard, right? It's really hard. I really credit the fact that I was, you know, I was scared, I was panicked, I was vulnerable. Like, I knew I just needed something. So that kind of allowed me to just take that step. Yeah. And it was kind of history from there. Like, it was just welcoming and II of course, but it was a breath of fresh air. Like, I finally found a place that, you know, I didn't have to explain myself. It was just immediate, like, support and welcoming and encouragement and like. 08:39 Jay Abramovitch Yeah, just literally, like a whole community of people that have been through or are going through what you're going through. And. And it was like having, like, hundreds of buddies, like, right behind you know, like, any questions you had, any good day, bad day, like, it was instant just because of the bond of cancer. Right. It sucks to have to go to a place like that because you're there because you got diagnosed with cancer. But I look at it now as definitely like a gift in this whole thing. 09:03 Julie Woon Correct me if I'm wrong. I believe one of your first interactions with the group was called the Howling Place. 09:08 Jay Abramovitch Yeah. So like, I was kind of mentioning before, man up to cancer has, like, we have different access points for guys in our community. And back early on, we had. We still have them. That was the main kind of support for guys. And it was called Howling Place. And that's a private Facebook group. It's a place literally just to go whole community of guys to kind of pick you up and that you can lean on. And what makes us really unique and something that we're really proud of is that we are just emotional support. So we don't, like, we don't give medical advice, we don't talk about treatments. We don't like. That's not allowed in Healing Place. It's purely just for the emotional connection. 09:47 Jay Abramovitch So there's lots of other amazing places to go get some support or say, treatments of, like, the science and all that kind of stuff. Manatee cancer is not. So we don't do medical, we don't do science or any of that stuff. So I think that's unique. Right. Like, we really focus on that. Emotional connection goes a really long way. 10:06 Julie Woon Yeah, absolutely. And you hinted a little bit towards the top of our conversation about this, but I think the traditional masculine stereotype would be that you're not going to be emotional, you're not going to express those feelings. What do you think about the Howling Place? Or maybe it's the cancer diagnosis. I'll let you tell me what kind of maybe strips away those barriers or what is bringing these men together and putting them in a place where they feel comfortable expressing themselves in this way. 10:34 Jay Abramovitch Yeah, I mean, I think it's an interesting question because each of us, I think, to a place like this for different reasons, of course. Like, we're all a different, you know, we all need something different. We're all looking for something different. That common bond is community. Right. So I think, you know, like, I could speak from my experience. Like my family, my work colleagues, friends, like, everybody was incredibly supportive, but there's still those, like, unique aspects of the cancer experience that if you're not the patient, you don't get. And then if you're not the patient and I, you know, just like women, for example, like, they have specific groups for, like breast cancer, for example, because that's a very specific, unique experience. It's very much like that for guys. Right. Like, we experience cancer different ways. 11:16 Jay Abramovitch We have different Obstacles, different hurdles and stuff to overcome. And finding somewhere that's geared towards that, I think is refreshing. And I think, too, one of the big things that we've seen is, like, there's no right time. Like, some guys will come find us, like, the day they're getting diagnosed, right. Other guys, it'll be years after because they're finally ready to actually, you know, be in an environment like that or speak or be opened, and there's everything in between. So we kind of like to say that we'll meet you where you're at, and, like, we're there for whenever you need us. For whenever you need. Like. So for an example, a great example of that would be, like, in the Hiling Place, you know, there's, like, 4,000 guys in there, but realistically, there's maybe, like, 500, like, active guys, right? 11:57 Jay Abramovitch But there's, like, hundreds of other guys that are, like, reading all this stuff, right? Like, that's how they're choosing to utilize the support, and they're, like, reading all of this. So they're still getting it. They're getting what they need in a way that they need it, you know, and other guys are active in the group. So it's really designed for you, Take what you need out of it. 12:15 Julie Woon I guess I'm interested because you said, you know all of this when you started during COVID So your primary connection with these men is through screens and messaging on Facebook. What was it like to build these deep relationships online without ever necessarily meeting these people face to face? 12:30 Jay Abramovitch Well, I think in the beginning, it was definitely a little bit strange, and I think most of us would say that. But with something like cancer, it's heavy. Like, you know. Yes. In the howling place and within manifested cancer, we spend a lot of time speaking about, like, our life, our families, work hard, sports, like, every. Like, a bunch of not cancer stuff. But the reality is, like, when we're talking cancer, like, it's heavy stuff. So there could be these people that, like, you met, like, today, and suddenly you're talking about this stuff that, like, you maybe haven't even discussed with your spouse or your doctor or your family. So, like, I think it. It kickstarts and, like, thrusts you into, like, this very deep connection automatically just because of the nature of what you're discussing. 13:10 Jay Abramovitch But the interesting thing about that is, has, like, man up to cancer progressed and grew. We have, like, three main programs in man up to Cancer and that we have a backpack. Like, we have a chemo backpack program where any, like, anybody in our Community can request a backpack if they're going through treatment, you know. And we have a team that puts those together with like a whole bunch of amazing comfort items that like or the status helped them. All these items are donated and ship them off to guys. Listen, if you can't your swag and you know, it's a cool. You're part of the team. Right. Which is important when you feel alone. So that's one of the programs. 13:44 Jay Abramovitch Our other program kind of just plays into what you were just mentioning about online is as we grew we started to have little groups of guys in different areas and actually started to meet up in person. Right. So which was really cool. So you'd have guys like going out to like get a coffee or a hockey game or just having zoom calls together. Right. Just to kind of locally actually meet up. So we developed a chapter program. So there's like approximately, I think now we're up to almost 50 chapters all around North America as well as Australia, the uk. We have one in Europe as well, which is our chapters. So that's one of our main programs as well. And really gets the like the intimate like in person, like local connection going outside of the group. 14:29 Jay Abramovitch And then third one, which is like our big one of the year is the Gathering of the Wolves, which I ran. That's kind of a culmination of like a year of online experiences. Kind of clumps together. We take $200, we bring them to their beautiful camp in the Poconos and essentially have like four days of like outdoor sleepover camp for grops. And it's absolutely amazing. It's 200 guys in the woods taking a break from life, bonding, relaxing, sharing, supporting. They've been, you know, lifelong connections. And it's neat because some like a lot of these are. You don't see these guys all year, right. Like just because of what like what I do with the organization, like I'm fortunate I get to see guys a little more often for certain reasons. 15:11 Jay Abramovitch But a lot of guys in the community, this is a one time year to actually see their brothers in person. So it's quite. Yeah, it's quite special. 15:18 Julie Woon That's so fun. 15:19 Jay Abramovitch I feel like. 15:20 Julie Woon Yeah, that would be an amazing time, I guess. How did the first Gathering the Wolves retreat come about? 15:25 Jay Abramovitch Yeah, so it was again like this was very grassroots. And Trevor had approached Mike, really? Don, Helen and Danny Ruggs, who were three like original members of the group, obviously said like, hey, I have this idea. I want to have a gathering and I want to bring a Whole bunch of guys together. Make it happen. So the three of them spent months and months making it happen. And we had the first two at Camp Duffield. It was absolutely amazing. And we got to the point where the organization grew so much. We had so many guys wanted to come. We just, like that facility couldn't accommodate what we wanted to do. So that's kind of when I came in. You know, we started to look around for a new location, and a location like old, 500 people. 16:08 Jay Abramovitch It's in the Poconos, so you can't get much better than that. And it's kind of like a really fancy camp, so it's nice. Just. Yeah, I just. I just really watching those three guys as well, because. Well, first of all, they're best friends of mine. They're the ones. They really created that event, so wanted to give them a shout out. Yeah, the event's special. So Danny Riggs, unfortunately, we just lost him three weeks ago, so we're still kind of navigating that, but we're going to be doing a lot of special stuff this year in September to really honor him for that. So. And I just. A whole bunch of us are actually going out to Houston, where he lives, and we're going to be going out to his celebration life and go support his family and. Right. 16:47 Jay Abramovitch So I think that just kind of speaks to the strength of the bonds, right. And the friendships that are created in this group. Like, we have people traveling from different countries, all over the U.S. Right, to go and, you know, be there for him and be there for his family. So I think that just, you know, that's a great example of the kind of bonds that are formed in this, you know, in this community. 17:06 Julie Woon I'm sorry for your loss, but I appreciate getting to talk a little bit about his legacy here, and I'm glad you called it out. I think it takes a lot of people to make something like this happen. And the rate at which you guys have grown is incredible. It's five years, in some ways, is almost no time to have grown to this big girl. That's really incredible what you guys are doing, I guess. Are there any conversations or moments from those retreats that, like, really stick out to you or something that, you know, you kind of taken back home? Just remember. 17:37 Jay Abramovitch Yeah, I think for me, I've gone to. This is. This year is going to be the fourth one. Not all of them, one of them as an attendee, and then the last two, the last three as an organizer. And at the event, we Do a lot of really great stuff. It's a lot of fun. But we also portions of it where we, you know, shop a little bit more heavy moments where we'll have like a blah fight. You know, we have special just traditions. And we are some of the guys that have passed like over that last year. And I always remember those because it's inevitable, like in a spoof like this that there's guys at this event going to be at the next year. And that's just the reality of doing stuff within the cancer space. 18:14 Jay Abramovitch So, you know, I think some of these guys that you know, have really advanced disease or even all our hospice clinic these events, like, because they just want to see everybody so badly and like be in the space. I think it's really special to be able to share that time with a lot of the guys and you know, to sit back and just watch what it does for people. Like, even though I'm kind of on the other side of it most of the time at the events, I still got a lot out of it too. And I think just seeing how it transforms people and the gratefulness and just the reality of the fact of Yahweh fun. But the reality is once we leave, there's some of these guys. 18:51 Jay Abramovitch I think that's just, you know, that's a gift in itself is you have to spend time with some of these guys that don't have a lot of time left and they choose to share. Any of us? 18:59 Julie Woon Absolutely. A little bit earlier you mentioned that men also face unique challenges when it comes to cancer. Beyond the support of this kind of like group dynamic. What are some of these specific challenges? 19:11 Jay Abramovitch Yeah, well, I think I know early on, like when Trevor Maxwell. So he's. He founded the organization and it was basically founded because he was a guy. He was early 40s, you know, he got diagnosed with stereotypical and cancer and quickly realized like there was not stuff for guys. Like there legitimately was not a place for guys to go. And I know a lot one man up to cancer ills is being stunned. A lot of the obstacles that, you know, he struggled with early on and continues to. Right. We all do. It doesn't just go away. So know, kind of his right hand that joined him very shortly after was Joe Bullock. And he's an incredible guy as well. The organization kind of grew from those two. It's like a team. 19:52 Jay Abramovitch We have a whole leadership team, a board of directors, we have a whole bunch of volunteers, you know, chapters all over the like, all over North America. The World, I guess just crazy to say, but the one thing in common is like, a lot of us share the same struggles. So I would say about mental health is huge. But they meant to cancer. Like, we're very big on health and being opened about talking about those, you know, struggles because they're real. The stereotypes and the misconceptions are like, yeah, you're a guy, suck it up, deal with it, figure it out. Right? The cancer is bigger than that. Right. Like, it's easy to say suck it up until, you know, I don't care how strong you are, what you've been through. 20:28 Jay Abramovitch You know, when you get told those words, it takes you out at Denise Ripe. Regardless if you admit it or not, it drops you to your news. You know, that comes along with a lot of mental health. Like, it's anxiety, it's depression, you know, the panic attacks. A lot of. I'd say a majority of cancer patients and survivors deal with ptsd medical anxiety. Like, the list is so broad. I think the one thing that I always like to highlight is that's not even taking into account what somebody comes into a cancer swear, right? Like, it's not just the cancer. It's. We all have lives, we all have however long we've been on this planet prior to our diagnosis of layers. Coming into a diagnosis with. 21:09 Jay Abramovitch And like mental health is a huge challenge, I think because of just what society says guys are supposed to be like, it makes it even harder for guys to access help or admit they need help or openly do it. So mental health is one for sure. I know financially for me, as like an early onset patient, for example, I don't. Not that anybody is lucky to go cancer, but when you get cancer and you're like, at the end of your career, you're retired, you can kind of just like focus on your health, right? Like you have a nest egg, you have savings, you could do whatever. Like, you kind of have options. Whereas, like, my wife and I were like, careers are new. We don't really have a big savings yet. We're trying to get things going. It's. 21:46 Jay Abramovitch You're kind of just a rug's pulled out from under you and you don't have a safety net. Right? Like, when you're young, there's no safety net because you haven't had that like 30 or 40 years to build it yet. So financially, like, and just the unknown of that financial instability is huge. So, yeah, that's a health financial thing. Like, relationships work. Like even the relationships with yourself, right? Like, it's just, yeah, there's so many. But I think those are really the standout ones to me that, you know, are very like, are. I wouldn't say typical, but very routine, you know, that you hear from most people. 22:17 Julie Woon That makes sense. And from a healthcare perspective, what do you think needs to change about how we approach cancer care for men? 22:24 Jay Abramovitch Yeah. Well, it is funny because as I'm sitting here, like whenever I talk about this, I always have a chuckle because my medical oncologist is a guy, my radiation oncologist is a guy, and my surgeon is a guest. So it's kind of, you know, it's ironic that I get to sit here and say, well, we need more men within the cancer space. I have learned, like, that's a unique experience. Right. Like a lot of the nurses and aides and social workers and psychologists and like a lot of those people that you see every day as a patient that aren't the doctors because we don't see them as much as we see all the support staff. Right. I think to start, there just needs to be more of a male presence in the cancer space in general. 22:58 Jay Abramovitch And that starts like at the hospital and the cancer, like in the cancer centers, in the support groups, like running the support groups, being involved in organizations. Right. Like, I've been very involved in a lot of organizations in Canada and I love my women counterpart. I'm great friends with all of them and this is not a negative towards any of them. But I'm outnumbered every time, right. Like by a long shot to being a guy. So acceptance, having guys in that space and allowing them to share their experience from a male perspective as opposed to what, like the norm has been for years and years would, you know, go a long way as well. 23:37 Julie Woon Yeah. What role do you think family members and friends maybe play in encouraging men to seek additional support? 23:43 Jay Abramovitch Well, I think that's a double edged sword because, you know, I think in some circumstances it could really help, but in other circumstances, I think it can almost. It could push the, like, it could push the person away because we know most guys. Like, it's just. I shouldn't say most. I don't want to generalize, but typically speaking, you know, the harder you push your typical guy to go get help or do something, the harder he's going to push the other way. Right. So sometimes it's very much based on, like, how do you do that? And I think when you have other males present, it makes it easier to do. Right. So, for example, like, when I was able to talk to my colleges about male specific issues that I was worried about. 24:24 Jay Abramovitch I was able to have that conversation where if it was a female oncologist, for example, I don't know if I would even have that conversation. Right. Just because I don't know if I would have been comfortable to do so or, you know, just explaining. Yeah, just little stuff like that. Right. Or going to support groups and having another vowel or two there. Or being asked to facilitate a group for guys. Like, just to have that space that creates an atmosphere that makes it just a little bit easier for a guy to want to, you know, accept that help because it's not easy. 24:56 Julie Woon Now we'd like to take a minute to talk about today's sponsor, Diekman Dysautonomia. Have you or a loved one been struggling with symptoms like fainting, a racing heart or crushing fatigue, only to feel dismissed or unheard by doctors? 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It feels like this was like a very clear gap that you guys have managed to fill and really I think, turn into something incredible. 26:08 Jay Abramovitch Yeah. And I mean absolutely. Like, and again, it's mind blowing to me that, you know, we're only five years old and prior to manic to cancer, like, it's almost like it just wasn't on the rave. Like there was like million, like there's millions of guys all over the world that really get diagnosed with cancer, but it was never thought of or never actually acted on to say, hey, like, maybe these guys need a different way of supporting them or maybe we should look into this or maybe we should actually create. So I think that's just like, to me, that's A little mind blowing just because I see firsthand every day, like, the impact that, you know, this organization has on so many guys all over the place. 26:45 Jay Abramovitch I think the special part about it too is like, it's one of the only cancer organizations that I've ever come across that is actually ran mostly by patients. Right? Like, it's not just a bunch of professionals that say, oh, come on, like, come to our spouse. Like, this is a grassroots organization where our whole leadership team, 99% of the people involved with the cancer and make these things happen are patients. You know, whether they're in treatments, they're ned, they're long term survivors, whatever it is. So I think that's pretty special because there's no misconception and there's no, like, all those folks sitting up, you know, in the ivory tower, like you often hear in some really large organizations, like, not really knowing what it's like. We're all in the trenches every day as well, right? So it's like we know exactly what it's like. 27:35 Jay Abramovitch We know what guys need because we're one of those guys. And we all utilize manect to cancer for ourselves as well, just as much as all the ghosts coming to our community view, because we're all patients and survivors too. So I think that's like, that's a very. We're very proud of that. And I think that's a very unique thing to see, like, within the cancer space. To be honest, I don't think I've ever. I don't. I really haven't seen that before. 27:57 Julie Woon So what's next for man up to cancer? How do you see the organization evolving? 28:02 Jay Abramovitch Yeah, so we do. You know, there's been a lot of exciting things happening with man up to cancer in the last year especially. So last November, we actually became a nonprofit, which is incredible. After four years, you know, were able to make that happen, and that kind of really opened the door for us to be able to grow and the opportunity is not endless. So one of the big things that's happened for us this year actually is we just launched our new space on the circle platform. So one of our big goals was to actually get away from relying on Facebook and have our own space that we can control, not rely on social media, because were finding a lot of guys out there don't want to be on Facebook. 28:40 Jay Abramovitch They don't want to have a social media account or be on the computer just to access this type of support. 28:46 Julie Woon So. 28:46 Jay Abramovitch So it was like a year project in the making we had an incredible team, folks within manheptic cancer, working on this, and we just launched that last month. So we have that community opened. We already have. We're. I think we're creeping now on 600 dials. Have made the transition over to that. Seeing a lot of people accessing mammatic cancer than wouldn't before because now they have an option not to do it on Facebook. So that's a huge growth across another. Another big milestone for our organization this year. Actually, this is recent in, like, last month, Trevor actually decided to go on a CEO hunt so he could really focus on what he does within the community. And also, you know, he's a stage four patient as well, so he needs to focus on himself and his family and pass us along a little bit. 29:33 Jay Abramovitch So it was a huge step for the organization to actually hire its first CEO just a couple weeks ago. So in five years, we kind of went from a Facebook group to a nonprofit with a CEO, which is incredible. And yeah, looking. Looking into the future. It's just too expensive, like, you know, to reach as many guys as we can and really build on the momentum that we have coming and yeah, just literally reach as many guys as possible. I. 29:58 Julie Woon That's awesome. Congratulations. That's. If you could speak directly to a man who's just received a cancer diagnosis and is listening to the podcast, what would you want to tell him? 30:09 Jay Abramovitch Oh, boy. So I would say that, firstly, I don't know exactly what you're going through, and I don't know exactly what you're feeling, what you're experiencing. Maybe that's yours, that's not mine. And it could. So I've been there, I am there. You definitely do not have to do it alone if you're not now. Whenever you are ready. No, there's lots of groke stuff out there to help. And scary as it is lost and it was upless, you know, it is grandsons as you might be, you know, taking that step to reach out, gain that community, really makes all the difference. It definitely changes. Definitely changes your experience. So whenever you are ready, if you are suggesting a letter to cancer, a psychologist or a social worker, close friend, whoever that is, just don't do it alone. You don't have to do it alone. 30:54 Jay Abramovitch It makes the world of a difference going through this with community. 30:57 Julie Woon That's awesome advice. How has this experience changed your own definition of strength and masculinity? 31:03 Jay Abramovitch Well, I think it's definitely, like, for me personally, it's definitely shown me what really manning up means, right and that means being, allowing yourself and actually having the courage to be vulnerable, be emotional, feel it all, the good, the bad, the ugly, and everything in between. Just accept what's happening, go day by day, and that's okay. And some days, you know, you're the one. Some days I'm the one supporting people. Other days I'm the one that needs support. I think that's been big shift for me because I've always been, you know, in helping, like in helping professions and being the one fixing problems. This was one I couldn't fix on myself. So, no, there was a big change for me. And that's something that's just kind of continued to grow. 31:43 Julie Woon This has been an amazing conversation. I appreciate you taking the time to walk us through your experience. Also us a little bit about man up to cancer. Before we wrap up, is there anything I didn't ask that you feel like we should talk about today? 31:57 Jay Abramovitch I would just say, like if you're worried and you have signs, you have symptoms or there's something that's just not right, don't take no. Don't take no for answer, right? Like if a doctor won't listen to you, go to another docket, right, and keep going to doctors, they'll suddenly do something. We just need to keep making noise, right? Like we're obviously very, you know, slowly making waves and people are starting to listen. I think we really need to keep putting that pressure on because, you know, the fact that we're in 2025 and early onset cancer is on a drastic incline and nobody could actually say why just doesn't sound right with how advanced we are. And we'll have all these amazing smart people out there that have access to amazing tools and educations and science. 32:39 Jay Abramovitch And I just think we need to keep pushing because the answers are right there somewhere. We're not going to find them for stay quiet. 32:45 Julie Woon I don't know if this is the same in Canada, but for us, we've been talking a lot about, you know, trying to also get the age lowered for screening. And that's been a big focus for us as well because to your point, the rate of early onset has been increasing dramatically. And so waiting to test until you're 45, 50 years old. It just doesn't seem like it's relevant anymore. 33:06 Jay Abramovitch No, I mean, I totally agree. And so in Canada, it's still actually 50. We kind of like one step changes in the States. We. It kind of comes here, you know, about like five to ten years later based on all the regulations and kind of stuff systems kind of go through to implement those changes. But for me, like, even in the states, like, it's amazing that they changed that. The reality is, like, when you listen to all these doctors talk about it, you see the stats. It's not 45 year olds, right, getting. I mean, yes, 45 year olds are getting diagnosed, but the greatest age gap or age group getting diagnosed right now is like 29 to 39, right? So, like, it's amazing that the age is lowered and hopefully it'll lower again. 33:47 Jay Abramovitch But the reality is even that lowered age is not hitting the portion of the population that has the highest rate of diagnosis right now. It's scary and things have to change and we definitely have to move a lot quicker because, you know, I always look at my situation, for example, and I got diagnosed at 36, at stage three. That cancer probably started developing around 25. Right. Or somewhere around there. So it's kind of like how low do you go? Right. Like, if I would have had screening at 30, maybe that would have been like Apollo or stage one or whatever. Right. So it's kind of, it's just, I don't know. 34:22 Jay Abramovitch It's going to be very interesting to see what happens, but things definitely need to change because what the stats are showing and what's currently in place are completely opposite of what they actually need to be right now. 34:33 Julie Woon Yeah, totally agree. And if you're just tuning in for the first time, we have a few episodes about colorectal cancer specifically, and we did some coverage of the fight CRC event that was in D.C. This year. So please go back and listen to those episodes. We talk about a little bit of the research, but we go really in depth into this early onset epidemic essentially. And we speak to a lot of people who were diagnosed very early as well, very similar to you, and people who didn't really have any symptoms, people who are having very dramatic symptoms and it just really runs the gamut. And I think, absolutely, if you feel like something is off, advocate for yourself. 35:11 Jay Abramovitch CRC is great. I, I know a lot of guys that are involved with them and we had a lot of guys here at the Manhattan Cancer community as well that are quite involved with ton of within the cancer space. And yeah, fight CRC is amazing. Yeah. 35:23 Julie Woon Small world. 35:25 Jay Abramovitch Oh, it's. You know what? Like, it's. It's funny that you say that because before I got diagnosed, like I wasn't really exposed to a lot of cancer. Like my grandma had cancer when I was really young, but she probably came to my life. We didn't have a lot of cancer in our family at all, so I really wasn't exposed to it. And then suddenly you got diagnosed and you were like, thrust into that world and yeah, like there's thousands of people that get diagnosed that the communities actually feel tiny. Like, you know, you run into all these people and people that, you know, you just keep running into and seeing. And it's quite amazing that there's so many folks out there, but it does really feel like a small community. 36:03 Julie Woon Absolutely. If somebody wants to get involved with man up to cancer or learn more, where can they find you guys? 36:10 Jay Abramovitch Yeah. So we have an amazing website, so you could go to man uptocancer.org and from there you could actually join up, can become a Wolfpack member and you can sign up for circle to get into our community. And once you're in that community, you have access to our chapter program, the Boundary text, attending the Gathering of the Wolves retreat. Yeah. Doing all kinds of cool stuff that we get up to. So if you know, if you are a guy affected by cancer, you know, somebody affected by cancer, that's a dog we use, just send them to manticancer.org and it's super simple. We made it like guy friendly. It's designed by guys for guys. So it's a pretty easy and clueless process to get connected with the pretty amazing community that's gonna make a, you know, that can really help you out. 36:55 Julie Woon This has been lovely. Thank you again so much, Jay, for coming on the podcast. 36:59 Julie Woon Thanks for tuning in to the why My Health podcast. We hope you're leaving inspired and informed. 37:03 Melissa Schenkman Be sure to follow us on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss an episode and share why My Health with your friends. 37:10 Julie Woon Have a story to share or a question for us? Connect with us at ymyhealth on social. 37:15 Julie Woon Media or visit our website atwhymyhealth.com until next time. 37:19 Melissa Schenkman Remember, remember, your health journey starts with the right information. 37:25 Julie Woon Stay healthy.