Latest / Foul Territory / Former Phillies General Manager Matt Klentak joins The Phillies Show

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Former Phillies General Manager Matt Klentak joins The Phillies Show · Foul Territory

0:02
Speaker 1: Matt, thanks for joining the Philly Show.
0:05
Speaker 2: Good to see you to be here. Great to see
0:07
Speaker 2: both of you guys.
0:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, while, yeah, it has been a while. It
0:10
Speaker 1: has been a while, and obviously we wanted to have
0:13
Speaker 1: you on because Christopher Sanchez is just on this ridiculous
0:18
Speaker 1: historic run right now, forty four and two thirds inning
0:20
Speaker 1: scoreless streak going into his start on Wednesday. You made
0:24
Speaker 1: the trade in November twenty nineteen to get him, and
0:30
Speaker 1: I went back, Matt. I did a little bit of research,
0:32
Speaker 1: and I tried to find the story that I wrote,
0:35
Speaker 1: and I couldn't find a story because at the time
0:38
Speaker 1: it wasn't that big of a deal. In fact, this
0:40
Speaker 1: is the only thing that I could find. I'm going
0:42
Speaker 1: to show you this. This is the headline on MLB
0:43
Speaker 1: dot com. It was a story about you guys adding
0:46
Speaker 1: players of the forty man roster Jojo Romero and I
0:48
Speaker 1: guess that's Mauricio Jovera. They were the two headliners and
0:52
Speaker 1: our four guys added to the forty man roster story.
0:57
Speaker 1: So I wanted to start there and go, you know,
1:01
Speaker 1: at the time, how did you view this trade you traded?
1:05
Speaker 1: You know, Curtis mead to the Rays to get Christopher Sanchez.
1:08
Speaker 2: How did you view it in the moment, Yeah, probably
1:13
Speaker 2: a lot like you did Todd, is that it was
1:16
Speaker 2: one of a number of kind of roster housekeeping transaction
1:20
Speaker 2: that took place that fall, but not necessarily, you know,
1:25
Speaker 2: any more important than any other one. Right, And just
1:27
Speaker 2: to maybe to give the viewers, give the listeners like
1:30
Speaker 2: a little bit of a sense, like at that time
1:32
Speaker 2: of the year, end of October, early mid November, right
1:36
Speaker 2: around the time that this trade happened, that's when organizations
1:40
Speaker 2: are kind of cleaning up their roster and there are
1:42
Speaker 2: players electing free agency from the prior year, They're maybe
1:46
Speaker 2: being placed on waivers, being designated for assignment. Right, there's
1:50
Speaker 2: players coming off the roster. But also, as you noted
1:52
Speaker 2: on what you just showed there, you know, teams are
1:55
Speaker 2: protecting their own players from the Rule five draft guys
1:58
Speaker 2: that they want to put add to the forty man
2:00
Speaker 2: rosters so that we don't risk losing them. Right, So
2:04
Speaker 2: that's happening across the league. Thirty teams are all kind
2:06
Speaker 2: of doing the same thing at about the same time,
2:09
Speaker 2: and what that often leads to is some trade discussions.
2:12
Speaker 2: It kind of the very early part of the offseason
2:15
Speaker 2: and Tampa at that point, this is the fall of nineteen,
2:19
Speaker 2: but even dating back to the summer of that year,
2:23
Speaker 2: excuse me, it was pretty well known that Tampa's forty
2:27
Speaker 2: man roster was in a really good spot. They had
2:30
Speaker 2: a lot of really good young players on their current
2:32
Speaker 2: forty and they had a bunch of players that they
2:34
Speaker 2: needed to protect that fall. So we knew this. The
2:37
Speaker 2: Phillies knew this, Every team generally knew this, and the
2:40
Speaker 2: Rays were pretty open about it. Eric Neander is as
2:43
Speaker 2: a very straight shooter, He's very honest. He makes a
2:45
Speaker 2: lot of transactions, so he was pretty open that they
2:49
Speaker 2: weren't going to be able to protect everybody they needed to,
2:52
Speaker 2: and thus they were going to need to be creative
2:55
Speaker 2: with some trades. So our scouts, you know, spent the
2:59
Speaker 2: second half of the season in the summer and into
3:01
Speaker 2: September with a target list of Tampa Bay Rays players,
3:05
Speaker 2: both on the current club and in the in the system.
3:08
Speaker 2: And really Christopher Sanchez was the guy that jumped out
3:11
Speaker 2: to us. And I've said this before. I may have
3:13
Speaker 2: said it to you guys at times, but you know,
3:16
Speaker 2: sitting in my chair at the time, What stood out
3:18
Speaker 2: to me was that both our scouts and our analysts
3:23
Speaker 2: were into this guy. They both saw things something in
3:26
Speaker 2: some cases different things, but they were both really into
3:28
Speaker 2: the player. And when you're sitting in the GM chair
3:31
Speaker 2: and you have really everybody around you telling you that
3:34
Speaker 2: this should be a target, you should listen. And I'm
3:37
Speaker 2: glad that we did. And I remember you guys will
3:39
Speaker 2: both remember you guys remember Chris Cashman with us for
3:42
Speaker 2: a long time. Yeah. Cash's job at the time, he
3:46
Speaker 2: was he was he was in the front office, but
3:49
Speaker 2: he kind of he blended both the scouting opinion and
3:53
Speaker 2: the analytical opinion, and he is a really good feel
3:55
Speaker 2: for that. I remember Chris, you know, pushing the pushing us,
4:00
Speaker 2: Chris Cashman pushing us to to pursue Christopher Sanchez. And
4:04
Speaker 2: obviously I'm glad we did. And I hope Philly's fans
4:07
Speaker 2: they are glad we did as well, no doubt.
4:09
Speaker 3: I actually I actually did find the story I wrote
4:12
Speaker 3: that night, and you said I quoted you saying our
4:17
Speaker 3: scouts really pounded the table for this guy.
4:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, dude, And I yeah, I mean, if
4:24
Speaker 2: I said that in the moment, I'm sure I meant it,
4:27
Speaker 2: but it was. You know, one of the things about
4:31
Speaker 2: he was Christopher had pitched an a ball in twenty nineteen,
4:34
Speaker 2: so he's you know, he's he was quite a ways
4:36
Speaker 2: off from being ready for the big leagues, as that's
4:39
Speaker 2: how it played out as well. He had a long
4:44
Speaker 2: way to go. But I think when you know front
4:47
Speaker 2: officers are looking at making picture additions like him or
4:51
Speaker 2: like anybody, I think you're often looking for ingredients, You're
4:54
Speaker 2: looking for upside, You're looking for ways that a player
4:57
Speaker 2: can improve. And I think that's what both our scouts
5:01
Speaker 2: and our analysts all saw was a ball a play.
5:04
Speaker 2: I mean, there's there's a lot to like about this guy.
5:06
Speaker 2: It is unrefined, it's not perfect. That's why he's pitching
5:09
Speaker 2: an a ball right now. But there's a lot to
5:12
Speaker 2: work with there. And I give them all credit, you know,
5:15
Speaker 2: I give everybody credit. The scout's pounding the table like
5:17
Speaker 2: your referenced, and yeah, it was. It was certainly a
5:22
Speaker 2: good one.
5:23
Speaker 3: Go ahead, Jim Well, I was just gonna say, fast
5:27
Speaker 3: forward to what he's become. Do you get a little
5:30
Speaker 3: sense of pride?
5:34
Speaker 2: Sure? You know, I think I said I've said this
5:36
Speaker 2: before too I think they're between that and and just
5:40
Speaker 2: the Phillies success in general over the last handful of years.
5:45
Speaker 2: It's the word I like to use is validation, because
5:48
Speaker 2: then you guys know this because you were covering the team.
5:50
Speaker 2: It's that there were highs and highs and lows in
5:54
Speaker 2: my tenure. There highs and lows since I'd left too,
5:56
Speaker 2: But when I left, it felt like a low, and
6:01
Speaker 2: that's that was part of the reason I stepped down, right,
6:03
Speaker 2: And then it wasn't that much later that things picked
6:08
Speaker 2: up again. And then twenty two they went on that
6:10
Speaker 2: great run to the to the World Series, and it
6:12
Speaker 2: really been a you know, one of the best teams
6:14
Speaker 2: in the National League really ever since. I don't want
6:17
Speaker 2: to discount anything that has happened since I left, because
6:20
Speaker 2: you know, Kyle Schorber and Trey Turner and you know,
6:25
Speaker 2: obviously them putting Thompson the chair and now gone in
6:28
Speaker 2: the chair, like, there have been some terrific decisions along
6:31
Speaker 2: the way that have helped propel this team forward. But
6:35
Speaker 2: but yeah, having a number of the guys that our
6:38
Speaker 2: group had had had, you know, helped to bring into
6:41
Speaker 2: the organization. See those guys excel on the biggest stages. Yeah,
6:45
Speaker 2: that's that has been doalidating for sure.
6:47
Speaker 1: What do you do you remember anything specifically that either
6:50
Speaker 1: the analysts or the scouts kind of mentioned to you
6:55
Speaker 1: about Sanchez that they really loved. I mean, obviously he
6:57
Speaker 1: was throwing hard at the time, he was a lefty
7:00
Speaker 1: six six through ninety eight. That's you can love that.
7:04
Speaker 1: But I mean, I don't know if anything you remember
7:05
Speaker 1: a conversation wherever.
7:06
Speaker 2: You don't even have to mention the person by name.
7:08
Speaker 1: But anything that kind of jumped out of you when
7:10
Speaker 1: you think back to those trade discussions, they're like, Okay,
7:13
Speaker 1: this is worth running.
7:15
Speaker 2: In some ways. Time. It doesn't need to be more
7:18
Speaker 2: complicated than exactly what you just said. I've been a
7:21
Speaker 2: lefty with that kind of projection, that kind of arm talent.
7:25
Speaker 2: It wasn't as we said this. It wasn't polished, it
7:27
Speaker 2: wasn't perfect. The strike throwing wasn't what it is today, obviously,
7:31
Speaker 2: but it was. There was just a lot to work with.
7:35
Speaker 2: And I think a couple of things have happened, you know,
7:38
Speaker 2: in the in the in the years since then. Number
7:40
Speaker 2: one is he has become so much more physical. I mean,
7:43
Speaker 2: he's just he is just a bigger guy. I think
7:45
Speaker 2: he's added like height as well as strength and weight,
7:49
Speaker 2: but he's much more physical, which is you know, part
7:52
Speaker 2: of development. That that's that's what happens when players in
7:55
Speaker 2: their early twenties, you know, age into their into their
7:59
Speaker 2: mid twenties and you know, learn more. I don't doubt
8:02
Speaker 2: at all that the Philly Strength conditioning group and the
8:05
Speaker 2: nutrition groups and the performance group in general has probably
8:08
Speaker 2: done a lot of work with him, and he's put
8:10
Speaker 2: his time into it and obviously is reaping the benefits
8:14
Speaker 2: of that. But the thing I don't watch. You presumably
8:19
Speaker 2: watch every pitch that he throws. I don't. I watched
8:21
Speaker 2: some of them, but not as many as you do.
8:23
Speaker 2: But the thing that stands out to me is, yes,
8:27
Speaker 2: it is just the quality of his arsenal, just how
8:30
Speaker 2: just electric his stuff is. But the second piece of
8:34
Speaker 2: that is how pitch efficient he is and just how many,
8:36
Speaker 2: how many quality strikes he throws early and counts, and
8:40
Speaker 2: that obviously allows him to pitch deep into games, It
8:43
Speaker 2: allows him to transition immediately to the leverage bullpen guys
8:47
Speaker 2: at the end. It saves the rest of the bullpen.
8:50
Speaker 2: So it's not just the impact that he's having in
8:53
Speaker 2: that day's game. It's the ripple effect of that in
8:56
Speaker 2: the day after and the day after that when they
8:58
Speaker 2: have arrested Bullpen and that makes such a difference. And
9:02
Speaker 2: you guys both I know, we're fortunate to cover the
9:05
Speaker 2: Phillies in the prior era when it was Cliff Lee
9:08
Speaker 2: and Roy Halliday and Cole Hammill's and they were doing that,
9:12
Speaker 2: you know, day in and day out, really times out
9:15
Speaker 2: of his time, five every time. But basically the whole
9:17
Speaker 2: rotation is doing that, and that'll cover up a lot
9:20
Speaker 2: of flaws and the rest of your roster when you
9:22
Speaker 2: have a rotation like that. So he is, I mean,
9:25
Speaker 2: he's he's terrific. The other piece of context they'll give you.
9:27
Speaker 2: I work for the Brewers now, as you both know,
9:30
Speaker 2: and I have a front row seat to watch Jacob
9:32
Speaker 2: Mizerowski everythith day. Jacob Mizerowski just finished the month of May,
9:37
Speaker 2: and again he gets a lot of credit for throwing
9:39
Speaker 2: one hundred and two, one hundred and three, like that's
9:41
Speaker 2: what seemingly all the headlines are. He gave up one
9:44
Speaker 2: run and yesterday he pitched. Yesterday, the last day of May,
9:48
Speaker 2: he gave up the first extra base hit of the
9:50
Speaker 2: month a double, and he probably won't win Picture of
9:53
Speaker 2: the Month, and Senchez has been it's crazy, but well
9:58
Speaker 2: that's some of them about the arms right now in
10:01
Speaker 2: the National League, in particularly but throughout baseball are just incredible.
10:04
Speaker 1: It's funny because that has but that was the debate
10:06
Speaker 1: the past couple of days, is who's going to be
10:08
Speaker 1: NL pitcher of the month, and it has the stats
10:10
Speaker 1: sanchez Is month against Miserowski's month, and it's like it's
10:15
Speaker 1: pretty good, pretty good debate right there.
10:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't know what is is Maybe I'LB
10:20
Speaker 2: could just do a co picture of the month. I
10:21
Speaker 2: don't ever do that, but that would seem appropriate in
10:23
Speaker 2: this moment. And oh, by the way, Otani's season long
10:26
Speaker 2: dra is I think less than one? Right?
10:29
Speaker 3: So everybody, yeah, exactly, Since you brought up messerrask and
10:34
Speaker 3: we want to come back to the Phillies guys, but
10:36
Speaker 3: were you with the Brewers in time to look at
10:39
Speaker 3: him as an amateur?
10:40
Speaker 2: Mm hm. That was my first year, was the twenty
10:43
Speaker 2: two draft. That was my first year with the with
10:45
Speaker 2: the Brewers, and he was our second pick. He was
10:49
Speaker 2: not our first pick. And what we ended up doing.
10:54
Speaker 2: I think you guys are probably familiar. I know you
10:56
Speaker 2: guys are, and probably many of the viewers are too.
10:58
Speaker 2: But the way the draft works is you have a
11:01
Speaker 2: pool of money, right, and then you can divvy that up. Really, however,
11:06
Speaker 2: you see that there's some there are some restrictions on that,
11:09
Speaker 2: but for the most part you can use there's flexibility
11:11
Speaker 2: and creativity there. So what we did is with our
11:14
Speaker 2: first pick, we took a college bat at at a discount,
11:18
Speaker 2: at a less than what his slot value was, and
11:21
Speaker 2: that allowed us the pool space to pay miss overslot
11:25
Speaker 2: when his pick came around. But he was you know,
11:28
Speaker 2: it's not I mean, it's a little different, I suppose
11:30
Speaker 2: than what we were talking about with Sanchez, but it's
11:33
Speaker 2: similar in that it was the ball of play. It
11:35
Speaker 2: was the same same approach. You know, he's he's six
11:38
Speaker 2: foot seven, has crazy extension down the mound. Right he
11:42
Speaker 2: releases the ball, it's right on top of the hitters.
11:45
Speaker 2: And that was the case when he was pitching as
11:47
Speaker 2: an amateur. But he was pitching in junior college, the
11:50
Speaker 2: strike throwing was you know, very meth and that you
11:55
Speaker 2: had to you had to bet on projection and development,
12:00
Speaker 2: and to his credit and all the people that have
12:03
Speaker 2: helped him, you know, he's been able to make those jumps.
12:07
Speaker 2: But I think when when we're looking at no matter
12:10
Speaker 2: where you work, you're always looking for pictures that have
12:14
Speaker 2: that kind of upside. So again, he and Sanchez are
12:17
Speaker 2: definite different profiles, different arsenals, a lot of differences, but
12:20
Speaker 2: I think they're similar in that way that even when
12:23
Speaker 2: they weren't, when they were younger players that weren't fully polished,
12:27
Speaker 2: you could still look at them and kind of dream
12:29
Speaker 2: on the ceiling there.
12:31
Speaker 1: You had mentioned Cliff Lee and Roy Halladay and those rotations,
12:36
Speaker 1: and you know, literally last week Jim Rubin and I
12:39
Speaker 1: were talking about Sanchez and Wheeler won two punches single
12:44
Speaker 1: season performance, like where do they rank in Philly's history?
12:47
Speaker 1: We mentioned Halladay and Lee and twenty eleven. There is
12:50
Speaker 1: Jim Bunning and Chris Short in the nineteen six he's
12:52
Speaker 1: a great one two punch Halladay and Hammil's in twenty ten.
12:56
Speaker 1: And you know the fact that you know Sanchez and
13:00
Speaker 1: Wheeler are in that conversation. Now you also obviously signed
13:03
Speaker 1: Zach Wheeler, and what do you remember about that process?
13:08
Speaker 1: And that must be another one where you're like, that
13:10
Speaker 1: worked out pretty well. I mean obviously worked out pretty well.
13:12
Speaker 1: We talked about all the time. It could be considered
13:15
Speaker 1: one of the greatest free agent signings in Phillies' history,
13:17
Speaker 1: if not MLB in the last I don't know how
13:20
Speaker 1: many years, but a long time ever, maybe.
13:24
Speaker 2: You know, with Wheeler, I'll start by just saying that
13:27
Speaker 2: how great it is to see him back because I was.
13:30
Speaker 2: I was. I was watching the Phillies game the day.
13:33
Speaker 2: It was right after the game when when Dave and
13:35
Speaker 2: Paul Blukey came down to the clubhouse to give that
13:38
Speaker 2: the press conmerce to announce what was going on with
13:40
Speaker 2: Zach and I was with my wife. We were both
13:43
Speaker 2: watching it like oh, man, like like this is this
13:46
Speaker 2: is scary stuff. So to see in relatively short order,
13:52
Speaker 2: to see the way he's he's come back from that
13:54
Speaker 2: and and is obviously returning to pitching at you know,
13:57
Speaker 2: his his typically high level, that's probably I'm just super
14:01
Speaker 2: happy for for him that's in a scary situation, he
14:05
Speaker 2: obviously seems to have come out of it great. So
14:08
Speaker 2: that's great news. With Yeah, in terms of the signing, again,
14:14
Speaker 2: I hate to keep circling back to the same theme,
14:16
Speaker 2: but it probably is the same theme about when whether
14:20
Speaker 2: you're training for a player, drafting a player, or in
14:22
Speaker 2: Zach's case, signing him as a free agent, you're trying
14:25
Speaker 2: to look at what they may do in the future.
14:28
Speaker 2: And you know, you've you've covered this, You've covered baseball
14:31
Speaker 2: for a long time. There have been a lot of
14:32
Speaker 2: free agents that have been paid for what they've done,
14:37
Speaker 2: and in a lot of cases, what you have done
14:40
Speaker 2: is you know, will impact or has some correlation to
14:45
Speaker 2: what they may do in the future. But in Zach's case,
14:47
Speaker 2: he had had a fairly checkered, largely injury driven, but
14:51
Speaker 2: kind of a checkered tenure with the Mets in his
14:53
Speaker 2: in his younger years, which affected, you know what, obviously
14:57
Speaker 2: his his performance and his durability and a number of things.
15:02
Speaker 2: But the two years, his final two years with the
15:06
Speaker 2: Mets before he hit free agency, we're both pretty healthy
15:09
Speaker 2: and pretty good, and I feel like he carried a reputation,
15:15
Speaker 2: maybe deservedly, I don't know, but just from his younger
15:18
Speaker 2: days of being a risk of being injury prone, and
15:21
Speaker 2: you know, we certainly you know, were aware of that too.
15:24
Speaker 2: We feel him being with the Mets, like we were
15:26
Speaker 2: in the same division, right, So so we were aware of that,
15:29
Speaker 2: but I think the market treated it that way. And
15:32
Speaker 2: you guys, remember Garrett Cole and Steven Strasburg were in
15:34
Speaker 2: that same free agent class and they signed for a
15:37
Speaker 2: lot of money, like a lot of money. And there
15:40
Speaker 2: were also Matison Bumgarner was in that class, Cole Hamil's
15:42
Speaker 2: was in that class. There were you was in that class.
15:45
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think there were. There were a number
15:47
Speaker 2: of really good starter Dallas Kichel kind of had had
15:50
Speaker 2: a resurgence and I think he ended up signing a
15:53
Speaker 2: three year deal, and so they were all and we
15:55
Speaker 2: needed pitching. That was that was, you know, one of
15:57
Speaker 2: our goals for that Obviouselyason was to add pitching. And
16:00
Speaker 2: as we assess the marketplace and where our payroll was
16:03
Speaker 2: and how much money we had to spend, we kind
16:06
Speaker 2: of deemed it that we could play not not necessarily
16:09
Speaker 2: in that Cole Strasbourg market, but hopefully better than the
16:14
Speaker 2: lower market. We were going to be right in the
16:17
Speaker 2: middle or the top tier of that of that middle group.
16:19
Speaker 2: And Zach was an immediate target for us, and both
16:23
Speaker 2: scouts liking the liking them, and you know, our analysts
16:28
Speaker 2: liking the projections. Moving forward, a similar theme to a
16:32
Speaker 2: Sanchez that we had a lot of people stumping for
16:34
Speaker 2: this guy. Now with free agent, you still have to
16:38
Speaker 2: line up on years and dollars. And I've talked about
16:40
Speaker 2: this in the past too. It's not just about years
16:43
Speaker 2: and dollars. There's a recruiting element to this too, and
16:46
Speaker 2: trying to align your marketplace, your vision for the future,
16:51
Speaker 2: your competitiveness, your geography, your whatever the case might be.
16:56
Speaker 2: For a player, just making sure that they are comfortable
17:00
Speaker 2: with what they would where they're committing the next in
17:02
Speaker 2: this case, five years of their career. You know, Harper
17:06
Speaker 2: is an even more dramatic example of that. But but
17:09
Speaker 2: with Zach, you know, he and Dominique were just planning
17:11
Speaker 2: to start a family. She had some roots relatively locally here.
17:16
Speaker 2: He was from Georgia East Coast guy. I think Florida
17:18
Speaker 2: spring training was appealing to them. As we talked to them,
17:22
Speaker 2: it became clear that there might be a fit here.
17:25
Speaker 2: And then and his agent, bb Abbott, if you guys
17:28
Speaker 2: have gotten to know him, he's a He's a straight shooter.
17:31
Speaker 2: He tells the truth. He's very honest. He's very very
17:33
Speaker 2: good at his job. But he's made billions of dollars
17:37
Speaker 2: for his clients over the years. But but, but, but
17:41
Speaker 2: but he'll he'll tell you how it is. And I
17:43
Speaker 2: think Zach and Dominique had a desire to move quickly
17:46
Speaker 2: that offseason, as did we. We were we were happy
17:49
Speaker 2: to check off what you know, what was I think
17:51
Speaker 2: it was two big things we wanted to do. Was
17:53
Speaker 2: at a a starting pitcher and at a short step
17:56
Speaker 2: which ended up being Dede Gregorious. But but we it
18:00
Speaker 2: was music to our ears, especially the prior year with
18:03
Speaker 2: as long as the Harper negotiation had dragged on. To
18:06
Speaker 2: move quickly in the offseason was was great for us,
18:09
Speaker 2: and we were able to line up. But it you know,
18:12
Speaker 2: I think as much as we were pursuing Zach, I
18:16
Speaker 2: think he was being very thorough in his process and
18:18
Speaker 2: making sure that we were going to be the right
18:20
Speaker 2: fit for him as well. And you know, as is
18:23
Speaker 2: the case was Sanchez that one has developed really really nicely.
18:26
Speaker 1: I remember at the time there was a lot of
18:27
Speaker 1: talk about, like you guys see something with his pitch
18:31
Speaker 1: usage or whatever. Was that like a big part of
18:33
Speaker 1: the sales pitch. Do you remember that was that overblown? Overstated?
18:36
Speaker 1: Because I remember everybody going like, what do you guys
18:38
Speaker 1: see in Zach Wheeler was like, well, we see some
18:40
Speaker 1: things that we can do with them to man, and
18:43
Speaker 1: he immediately went to the next level. So what do
18:45
Speaker 1: you remember about that?
18:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was definitely a part of it. And when
18:49
Speaker 2: I when I talked a little bit about you know,
18:52
Speaker 2: paying for hopefully what you're going to get in the future,
18:54
Speaker 2: not what a player has done in the past. That's
18:56
Speaker 2: so that's kind of what I'm alluding to. You know,
19:00
Speaker 2: at the time I said, think I said this, but
19:03
Speaker 2: both our both our scouts saw the promise in this guy.
19:07
Speaker 2: He was a first round drafted. He was drafted early,
19:09
Speaker 2: early in the first round. He was traded for Carlos beltround.
19:11
Speaker 2: This was this dude came with a lot of pedigree
19:15
Speaker 2: early in his career and then it just kind of
19:17
Speaker 2: hit a roadblock with with his injuries over the course
19:19
Speaker 2: of I think two or maybe three separate seasons when
19:22
Speaker 2: he was a young big leaguer, and then he kind
19:25
Speaker 2: of established in his final two years with the Mets
19:28
Speaker 2: that he was back on track and was still at
19:30
Speaker 2: an age and really just didn't have that many innings
19:33
Speaker 2: on his arm because of those injuries that a lot
19:36
Speaker 2: of our our folks thought that there was another gear
19:39
Speaker 2: for this guy, both just in terms of his general development,
19:44
Speaker 2: but also because of some you know, subtle things that
19:48
Speaker 2: our pitching group had identified with him. But I think
19:53
Speaker 2: just Jack is a really committed pitcher who's really dedicated,
19:57
Speaker 2: and he obviously has some great physical gifts and he
20:00
Speaker 2: he's just taken it to another level.
20:02
Speaker 3: Couple things I remember about that time when you guys
20:07
Speaker 3: were pursuing Zach. Geography definitely is a big one. I
20:11
Speaker 3: think the White Sox were heavily in. I think maybe
20:15
Speaker 3: the Reds were in, but the fact that his wife
20:20
Speaker 3: had some Jersey roots, it was close to Atlanta. He
20:23
Speaker 3: also in his opening press conference mentioned that he was
20:25
Speaker 3: very eager to see what the Phillies Analytics program could
20:31
Speaker 3: do for him as a pitcher, and he has subsequently
20:34
Speaker 3: said that has done a lot for him. And he
20:37
Speaker 3: also mentioned that spring that he was very eager to
20:43
Speaker 3: pitch to J. T. Real Mudo after seeing him for years.
20:47
Speaker 2: Did you I'm.
20:49
Speaker 3: Wondering if you had that in your back pocket that
20:51
Speaker 3: you knew he wanted to pitch to JT. Did that
20:53
Speaker 3: ever come up? And maybe could we segue into the
20:56
Speaker 3: pursuit of JT and how he ended up a Philly.
21:02
Speaker 2: It came up. I remember that coming up distinctly in
21:06
Speaker 2: my conversations with Bib, Like Bibe would tell me that.
21:09
Speaker 2: Bib would say, you know, one of the things you
21:11
Speaker 2: have going for you is j T Robuto. But I don't,
21:16
Speaker 2: I candidly don't remember if we knew that going in
21:20
Speaker 2: or not. I don't believe those two guys had a
21:23
Speaker 2: prior relationship other than having played against each other in
21:26
Speaker 2: the Naly East for a number of years. I don't
21:28
Speaker 2: know that they knew each other or friendly, but change
21:31
Speaker 2: they did.
21:32
Speaker 3: I think it was more of a Zach observing him
21:35
Speaker 3: and admired him from Afar.
21:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think that's right. And this we may
21:40
Speaker 2: get to this, But the same was trip of Harper.
21:42
Speaker 2: By the way, j T. Romuto was definitely a recruiting
21:45
Speaker 2: advantage for the Phillies. It may still be, it probably
21:49
Speaker 2: still is. But yeah, just his obviously his ability behind
21:52
Speaker 2: the plate, but just his dedication to the pitchers, dedication
21:56
Speaker 2: to the team and to baseball. Just he said just
22:00
Speaker 2: I was only around him for a couple of years.
22:02
Speaker 2: You guys have been around him longer. But just a
22:04
Speaker 2: terrific teammate, hard worker, does everything you would want in
22:07
Speaker 2: a teammate in terms of that acquisition a JT. That is,
22:12
Speaker 2: in terms of that trade that you can fact check
22:16
Speaker 2: me on this, But that was leading into the nineteen season, right,
22:20
Speaker 2: so I think we may Yeah, I was gonna say
22:24
Speaker 2: late January, early February something like that, but really that
22:28
Speaker 2: the pursuit started several years before that, and you know,
22:34
Speaker 2: a very above board. Just in my conversations with Michael Hill,
22:37
Speaker 2: they had at one time they had Gim Carlos Stanton,
22:40
Speaker 2: they had Christian Yelig, they had Marcelo Zuna, they had JT,
22:45
Speaker 2: all of whom at various times, you know, we're on
22:47
Speaker 2: the trade block and ultimately ended up being traded in
22:50
Speaker 2: different directions and we were engaged at various times in
22:54
Speaker 2: all four of those guys. JT. I you can can
22:56
Speaker 2: fact check me. I think he was the last of
22:58
Speaker 2: the four to be traded. So, but Mike Hill knew
23:03
Speaker 2: of our interest there for years, and not only that
23:06
Speaker 2: that Marlins had spent time on our system for years
23:09
Speaker 2: you know, because we had been engaged on all four
23:11
Speaker 2: of those guys, and when it really came together in
23:16
Speaker 2: that kind of late winter of nineteen heading heading into
23:20
Speaker 2: the nineteen season, it was when we put six Dost,
23:24
Speaker 2: Sanchez and joor Al Faro together in the deal. That
23:28
Speaker 2: is sort of what got their attention. And I remember
23:32
Speaker 2: the next morning getting a call from Rob Thompson, who
23:36
Speaker 2: at the time was our bench coach, and he said, hey,
23:39
Speaker 2: you know, somebody from the Marlins just reached out. They're
23:42
Speaker 2: asking me questions about Alfaro. You know, is there anything
23:45
Speaker 2: you know I should say or shouldn't say or I thought, huh,
23:49
Speaker 2: that's a good sign like that, they're starting to do
23:53
Speaker 2: some work on this, and it wasn't you know. Maybe
23:58
Speaker 2: a day later, Mike Hill called me back and said,
23:59
Speaker 2: now it's a good starting point. We needed the They
24:02
Speaker 2: needed the ready made replacement for j T, which Alfaro
24:06
Speaker 2: could provide the big league catcher. Obviously six Dough being
24:10
Speaker 2: the headliner at the time, he was a top industry prospect.
24:13
Speaker 2: I don't remember exactly where he ranked, but he was
24:15
Speaker 2: a highly rated guy. And then we needed to round
24:18
Speaker 2: out the deal and that took a couple of days.
24:20
Speaker 2: But but no, our ownership was on board. That was
24:25
Speaker 2: that was our our stupid money off season, as you
24:28
Speaker 2: guys will recall. But but we hadn't yet signed Harper,
24:33
Speaker 2: and I think Machada was still a free agent at
24:34
Speaker 2: the time, so we really hadn't spent this stupid money. Yet.
24:38
Speaker 2: We had added we had made the trade for Sigura,
24:41
Speaker 2: we'd added Robertson, we'd added McCutcheon, and then we added JT.
24:45
Speaker 2: So we like that. That felt like a pretty productive
24:49
Speaker 2: off season. But still the elephant in the room was
24:52
Speaker 2: that the big dogs were still out there in free
24:54
Speaker 2: agency and what was going to happen. We didn't acquire
24:59
Speaker 2: JT because we thought it would help pursue Harper, help
25:03
Speaker 2: in our Harper pursuit, but we were aware that it
25:06
Speaker 2: might Harper's quotes, I don't remember if it was that
25:11
Speaker 2: offseason or the year before, he was pretty public about
25:14
Speaker 2: his adoration of JT. Again as a competitor, as playing
25:19
Speaker 2: against him, just about I think he at one point
25:21
Speaker 2: called him his favorite player in the league or something
25:23
Speaker 2: to that effect. So again, we didn't go out to
25:26
Speaker 2: get JT because we thought that was going to be
25:29
Speaker 2: the you know that was going to get us over
25:31
Speaker 2: the top with Bryce. But yeah, I think it probably help.
25:35
Speaker 2: You could ask price that, but I think it probably helped.
25:37
Speaker 1: I remember that was right before spring training in twenty nineteen,
25:41
Speaker 1: and I remember where I was exactly when that trade
25:46
Speaker 1: started to go down or when news started to break.
25:48
Speaker 1: I was in the line for Jungle Crews at Magic
25:51
Speaker 1: Kingdom and it and my wife's going, what are you doing?
25:56
Speaker 1: I go, hold on, I need to find out. I
25:59
Speaker 1: need to confirm this trade.
26:01
Speaker 2: I think the Phillies just got JT real mute, and uh,
26:05
Speaker 2: there is never a safe time to do anything in
26:09
Speaker 2: this I didn't know that. I feel.
26:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, if I remember correctly, because we all thought, you know,
26:20
Speaker 3: he was he was mentioned as a trade possibility like
26:23
Speaker 3: early early in the off season, and you're all everybody's thinking, wow,
26:27
Speaker 3: he'd be a good look in Philly. But I know
26:30
Speaker 3: the Mets, the Dodgers, the Braves, and I think the
26:33
Speaker 3: Reds were all the teams that were really at the
26:36
Speaker 3: forefront of seemingly fits or the teams that were pursuing him,
26:42
Speaker 3: and none of them ever matched up with the Marlins.
26:44
Speaker 3: And then all of a sudden, you're packing your bags
26:47
Speaker 3: for spring training, and I remember JT at his opening
26:49
Speaker 3: press conference said the car was loaded. He just wasn't
26:52
Speaker 3: sure what city he was driving to. Okay, wants to
26:57
Speaker 3: come to God come together. After all those teams didn't
27:00
Speaker 3: meet their prize.
27:01
Speaker 2: You were there. Yeah, I think that's right. I I
27:05
Speaker 2: can't remember this exactly. I believe that was the off
27:09
Speaker 2: season their front office. I think their ownership had turned
27:12
Speaker 2: over and they were they were their front office was
27:15
Speaker 2: evolving too. Mike Halles had been in charge, and he
27:17
Speaker 2: still was in charge, but they they had brought in
27:20
Speaker 2: Gary Denbow and and you would have been the guy
27:24
Speaker 2: that called Rob Thompson. Yeah, well maybe say that's exactly
27:27
Speaker 2: that might that might be right. But but I think
27:30
Speaker 2: part of it, Jimmy, might have been that their off season,
27:33
Speaker 2: you know, there was some you know, they were evolving
27:37
Speaker 2: over there as well. So what they may or may
27:39
Speaker 2: not have been willing to do in November, it may
27:41
Speaker 2: have changed by the time we got to go to
27:44
Speaker 2: January and February. But it's again, I led with this
27:49
Speaker 2: sometimes this is this is just the way it goes.
27:52
Speaker 2: Like the trades. Really, you could say that those negotiations,
27:57
Speaker 2: or at least the discussions began years earlier, and sometimes
28:01
Speaker 2: you just have to wait for the timing to be right.
28:04
Speaker 2: And why does timing become right? You know, nobody can
28:07
Speaker 2: exactly predict that, but you stay on it, you stay
28:10
Speaker 2: on it, you stay on it, and you know, sometimes
28:13
Speaker 2: it never comes together and then but once in a
28:15
Speaker 2: while it does, and you know, we're again fortunate that
28:19
Speaker 2: it did in that case.
28:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty incredible. So the Phillies, Matt are going to
28:24
Speaker 3: see the Brewers here in the short term, I think
28:27
Speaker 3: less than two weeks. Brewers are a hell of a club,
28:31
Speaker 3: you guys made. We're very busy this winter moving on
28:34
Speaker 3: trading Peralta. But landed that Kyle Harrison, what a pickup man.
28:38
Speaker 3: Can you tell us a a little bit about the
28:41
Speaker 3: targeting of him and how that all came to pass?
28:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think again, very different market. We're
28:49
Speaker 2: working in Milwaukee versus working in Philly, right, It's part
28:55
Speaker 2: of our reality. But when we have a player like
28:57
Speaker 2: a Freddie Peralta or in the past that's been Devin
29:00
Speaker 2: Williams or Corbyn Burns, when they get they near the
29:03
Speaker 2: end of their control, we often not always, but we
29:06
Speaker 2: will often trade them for future you know, for younger
29:10
Speaker 2: players and help to help to lead us kind of
29:13
Speaker 2: into the next generation. And by and large that approach
29:16
Speaker 2: it has worked. With the Harrison acquisition, it was different though,
29:22
Speaker 2: because what we the headliner that we traded in that
29:25
Speaker 2: trade was Caleb Durban, who had less than a year
29:28
Speaker 2: of major league service. He was our everyday third basement
29:30
Speaker 2: last year on a ninety seven win team that went
29:32
Speaker 2: to the LCS. A big part of our of our group,
29:35
Speaker 2: and that's something that we have not done historically, is
29:38
Speaker 2: trade the young, controllable guy. A big part of that
29:43
Speaker 2: was our desire to continue to augment our pitching depth
29:49
Speaker 2: in general. And a second big piece of that was
29:53
Speaker 2: We've talked about this, I think three or four times
29:55
Speaker 2: now with about different players, but it's about the belief
29:59
Speaker 2: in a player to can con tinue developing and what
30:01
Speaker 2: they may do in the future. And in Kyle Harrison's case,
30:05
Speaker 2: it hasn't been injuries like it may have been. For
30:08
Speaker 2: Zach Wheeler we talked about earlier, but for whatever the reason,
30:13
Speaker 2: his growth kind of was stunted with with San Francisco
30:16
Speaker 2: he was traded to Boston. He was kind of had
30:19
Speaker 2: developed into an up and down type there, and we
30:23
Speaker 2: saw a path in our organization to provide him a
30:27
Speaker 2: real opportunity for an extended run in the rotation, to
30:31
Speaker 2: see if you know, there's these really good tools, this
30:34
Speaker 2: really good stuff could translate and above all else, I
30:39
Speaker 2: think that I've been with the Burgers is my fifth
30:41
Speaker 2: year now. I think the Burgs do a lot of
30:43
Speaker 2: things well, but I think one of the things that
30:45
Speaker 2: stands out to me is that we provide opportunity to
30:49
Speaker 2: players and an extended opportunity. We don't necessarily sign the
30:55
Speaker 2: splashy three hundred million dollar free agents very often, but
30:59
Speaker 2: when we do, you know, sign a lower dollar free
31:01
Speaker 2: agent or make a trade like this, there's a real
31:03
Speaker 2: runway for them to go, you know, find out what
31:07
Speaker 2: they can do at the major league level. And that's
31:11
Speaker 2: kind of what's happened with Harris. I didn't take him.
31:13
Speaker 2: To his credit, it didn't take him very long. He
31:15
Speaker 2: gets he is credited with, you know, sort of a
31:19
Speaker 2: new changeup that he developed over the off season as
31:22
Speaker 2: being the thing that's kind of taken him from, you know,
31:25
Speaker 2: from where he was to where he is now. I
31:27
Speaker 2: don't know if it's quite that simple. I think there's
31:29
Speaker 2: probably a lot to it, but that has helped. And yeah,
31:33
Speaker 2: we've just been able to provide him the runway and
31:36
Speaker 2: he's he's really taken off and it kind of I'm
31:38
Speaker 2: glad you asked about himcause he kind of gets overshadowed,
31:40
Speaker 2: maybe literally by the by the six foot seven guy
31:43
Speaker 2: who pitches the day before him in the rotation and
31:45
Speaker 2: throws one hundred and two miles an hour. But Kyle
31:47
Speaker 2: Harrison is right up there with some of the best
31:50
Speaker 2: pitchers in the big leagues right now in terms of
31:52
Speaker 2: what he's done through the first couple of months.
31:53
Speaker 1: You're right about that. Yeah, I was looking at the
31:56
Speaker 1: best one to two combos this season, going back to
31:58
Speaker 1: what we were talking about earlier, Sanchez and Wheeler rank
32:01
Speaker 1: in baseball, and I was like, oh, Mizerowski, Harrison, they're
32:05
Speaker 1: right up there in terms of overall production this season.
32:09
Speaker 2: You know, you're right.
32:10
Speaker 1: People got like Cole Harrison what.
32:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Matt, you know that Todd Todd grew up
32:18
Speaker 3: a big fan of the crew.
32:20
Speaker 2: I didn't know that when I first took the job.
32:24
Speaker 2: He was one of the first people to reach out
32:25
Speaker 2: and he had some pretty strong recommendations for different restaurants
32:29
Speaker 2: different the local local foods and such that I should try.
32:33
Speaker 2: And so yeah, I'm well aware.
32:35
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And my parents and my family are still
32:39
Speaker 1: big Brewers fans, so they appreciate you guys, uh continuing
32:43
Speaker 1: to win at a good clip in the National League
32:46
Speaker 1: Central and in the National League. So they're hoping you
32:49
Speaker 1: get They're hoping you guys can get over the top
32:51
Speaker 1: there and get that World Series which they've never won.
32:53
Speaker 2: So you can tell the the extended Zelecki family way
33:00
Speaker 2: that I that I'm in agreement with that. Absolutely.
33:03
Speaker 1: Well, it would be fun if they got to face
33:04
Speaker 1: the Phillies and the Brewers got to face each other
33:06
Speaker 1: in the post.
33:07
Speaker 2: That would be at the last few years just kind
33:10
Speaker 2: of just keep missing each other, just keep missing.
33:12
Speaker 1: Absolutely, But Matt, thanks so much for the time.
33:15
Speaker 2: This is great. Had a lot of.
33:16
Speaker 1: Fun taking a trip down memory memory laying there. So
33:19
Speaker 1: a best of luck to you and the Brewers and
33:21
Speaker 1: and thanks again for coming on with us.
33:23
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. It's great to see you guys,
33:25
Speaker 2: and I hope to see you at the ballpark when
33:28
Speaker 2: the Phillies and Brewers do match up here in a
33:30
Speaker 2: couple of weeks. Absolutely, Thank you, Matt.
33:32
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33:34
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