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Blue Jays sweep Cardinals — but it's not time to panic (yet) · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to Cardinal Territory.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: It's Thursday, June twelfth, and the Cardinals were just swept
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: by the Blue Jays yesterday and I'm here to guide
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: you through it. So let's just start the episode by
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: taking one big collective deep breath. Okay with me now
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: inhale exhale, Okay, let's talk about it. It was not
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: a good end to the homestand in Saint Louis, and
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: looking back over the last two weeks, I understand why
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: there is some concern about the state of the Saint
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Louis Cardinals. Series lost to the Rangers to kick off
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: the month, series lost to the Royals, solid series with
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: the Dodgers, so let's not discount that, and then a
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: pretty big bummer against Toronto the last three days.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Here's my hot take, Katie Woo with you for another
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: episode of Cardinal Territory.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: I know the last series was a sweep, and obviously
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: sweeps bad, but I don't think the series against the
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Blue Jays has really made things as dire as they seem.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: The Blue Jays are.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Some of the highest contact rate in baseball. They also
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: has it as a team they have one of the
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: lowest strikeout rates. That does not bode well for a
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: high pitch to contact staff such as the Saint Louis
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Cardinals staff and manager Olie Marmals.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Said as much ahead of the series and during it.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Here's a postgame quote from Tuesday's ten to nine loss.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Allie said, we said it before the series, this might
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: be one of our toughest series. This might be tougher
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: as far as matchups go, than even Los Angeles. Because
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: of the amount of contact this group makes and what
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: we do as a pitching staff. We knew there would
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: be challenges to navigate and Toronto is continuing to show
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: why they're the toughest in the league to strike out.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: It's going to be a challenge all three days. And
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: guess what it was. From a match pot standpoint, it
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: did not bode well. Going in as a results standpoint
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: didn't go great either. You think about the pitchers, the
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: Cardinals throughout there, Andre Polante, Miles Michaelis, ground ball guys,
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: Matthew Libertire working through some things right now. Now Polonte
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: will get to him through a quality start, did a
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: nice job. Miles Michaelis got soft contacted to death. The
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: results a sweep, but the Cardinals were in two out
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: of the three. So that's why as we sit here
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: and we think, you know, is this the end of
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: the world for the Cardinals? No, I don't think so.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: I think is this a sign of them regressing to
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: their mean? I actually also don't believe that there are
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: plenty of justifiable concerns right now for this club, and
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: we'll get into that during this episode. But as far
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: as series sweeps go, I'm actually pretty confident in this
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: group's ability to flush it and to move on. And
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: they need to because eleven of their next fourteen games
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: come against Division opponents, including four starting today against the
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: Brewers at American Family Field.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: So what's next? Great question?
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: You can read this on The Athletic previewed it last night,
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: kind of a series recap here. Three trends to watch
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: after Saint Louis is swept by the Blue Jays, And
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: we'll go ahead and break this article down with some
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: added context within this episode, because this is, if you
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: haven't judged it already, a solo episode. But I just
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: figured as a collective unit, we could probably use a
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: therapy session.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: So I'm here to try to calm everybody down. Was
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: it a good weekend. Was it a good week series?
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, no, no, it wasn't.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: I didn't particularly enjoy it, But I don't think it's
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: time to like totally press the panic button and say, oh,
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: sell the team.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: You know they're they're not contenders.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: We'll see how the next four days go against the Brewers,
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: and if it doesn't go well, then maybe we can
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: revisit that conversation. But right now here is what I'm
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: focusing on. We'll start with some injury updates. The Cardinals
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: are preparing to be without Brendan Donovan for at least
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: a couple of days. This he recovers from a sprained
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: capsule in the joint that connects the big toe to
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: the foot.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: I'm no doctor, but that is what was communicated to me.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: It sounds a little similar to turf toe, but again
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: that was not the official diagnosis. That was just kind
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: of talking around. Maybe this is a similar thing to
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: kind of base the prognosis on. But I want to
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: be very clear, the Cardinals did not specifically name it
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: turf toe. It's a sprain. Don't think that's going to
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: require an ile stint for Donovan, So that is good news.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: Donnie said after Wednesday's game that an ile stint would
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: probab will be the worst case scenario and not something
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: that he thinks is necessary at this time. But he
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: is day to day and the Cardinals are preparing to
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: play without him for a couple of days. That's not
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: good obviously. You think about what Donnie has done in
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: that three hole, the tear that he's ben on at
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: second base and at the plate. I mean, he's been
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: one of their rocks this year. So any game without
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: Brendan Donovan is not necessarily.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: A good thing.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: If we are flipping to the positives, which is what
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to have this episode be about, it is
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: that this will get more opportunity for Nolan Gorman. With
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: Jordan Walker still on the Andrew list, and we'll get
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: to him in a second. You can roll out a
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: starting outfield of Lars Newbar and left, Victor Scott in center,
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: and Alec Gurlson and right, and put Gorman in at
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: second base, Keith Herrera at the DH.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Nolan Gorman has been swinging a much better bat lately.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: I know that Bernie and I have chronicled the swing
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: changes he's made. Gorman is such a streaky hitter. So
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: the more that Ollie Marble can play him right now,
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: the better. And he is one of the Cardinals right
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: now that's trending in the right direction offensively to those
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: out killers that I just named, Lars Newbar and Victor Scott.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: The second not so much. I know Lars has looked
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: like he's been going through it lately. Victor Scott same way,
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: especially against lefties. Just trying to figure out how to
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: combat those adjustments. That's going to happen in seasons like this,
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: where you're constantly stressing, throwing guys in the fire and
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: hoping that they figure it out. That's the whole prognosis
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: of the season.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: We know this, right So.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: It's frustrating as it is to see new Bar struggle
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: at the leadoff spot right now, Victor Scott scuffling a bit.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: Give them some time. I really think the series will
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: tell us.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: A lot about where each individual player is, both from
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: a health perspective like Donnie and from a performance standpoint
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: like new Bar and Victor. Another outfielder, Jordan Walker, starts
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: a rehab assignment with Triple A Memphis down in Gwinette. Today,
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: Cardinals are looking to get him a couple of games,
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: and they didn't necessarily think that he would need a
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: rehab stint to begin with. For those of you who
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: need a refresher, Jordan Walker is dealing with left wrist
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: inflammation when on the injured list during the second game
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: against the Rangers earlier in the month. But the risk
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: wasn't recovering as well as they hoped, so we had
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: to get an inflammation an anti inflammation shot in that risk,
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: which sidelined him for a couple of days and missing
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: a couple of days of baseball activity just made of
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: rehab assignment make more sense.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: It should not be a lengthy one.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: The Cardinals are potentially targeting next Tuesday, so Brewers for
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: four off day in Chicago White Sox series. That would
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: be the day the Cardinals are targeting maybe the earliest
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: call up for Jordan Walker.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: But again they do not believe that rehab since will
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: be super long.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: It's more about recovering how he feels if he's ready
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: to get back into play. So those are the injury
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: updates for the Cardinals. Could be better, could also be
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: a lot worse. They'll certainly hope to have both Donnie
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: and Jordan walker back healthy as much as possible. All Right,
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: we'll get to the concerns, the long list of concerns
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: that I've seen both in the athletic comment section and
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: the YouTube comment section, and of course my favorite website
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: ever on Twitter. First, though, let's hear from our first sponsor.
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• 7:58
  Speaker 2: I'm actually so hungry right now. Took an early ish
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: morning flight to Milwaukee. I'm here by the way in
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: my wonderful Marriotte Hotel room. And for those of you
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: who listen to the show, sometimes I go on little tangents.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: I love Milwaukee as a road city. It's top three
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: for me, and part of it is because the food
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: scene here is really good. I mean, when you think
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: about their like three food groups, it's like beer, cheese,
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: and more beer, which is also my diet. So it's
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: just a good matchup. I am looking forward to making
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: a quick pitstop before heading.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: To the ballpark.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: But let's get to the stuff you really care about.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: What the heck is going on with Ryan Helsley. Three
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: consecutive blown saves over the home stand. That is pretty
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: uncharted territory for the All Star closer. For context, he
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: blew just four saves all season last year, and granted
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: that was a historically good season.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: But when you.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: Have an arm like Ryan Helsley, who has the rapport
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: and the reputation that he does as being one of
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: the best ninth inten arms in the league, when he
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: has ten days like this, three consecutive blown saves, and
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: a year where he just seems to be getting hit
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: a lot harder than he did last year, there is
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: going to be some concern there. So let's really look
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: at the fastball because in conversations that we had with
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: Halsley over the last couple of days, he talked to
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: the media Monday after blowing the save in Monday's five
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: to four loss and ten innings, which I think that
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: was probably the worst game of the series, honestly, because
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: I think the Cardinals really should have.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: Won that one.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: I also talked to Ryan on Wednesday before the day
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: game about a little bit more of what he's seen
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: from his fastball. So let's look at the stats here
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: and we'll compare the fastball from last year to this year.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: So in twenty twenty four, the four seemer averaging ninety
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: nine point six miles per hour.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: This year ninety nine point one, so really not all
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: that different from veal perspective.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: The spin is about the same as well, and the
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: usage is about the same.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: In twenty twenty.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: Four, helsing through the four semer forty five percent of
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: the time, this year forty six percent of the time.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: So everything there seems to be on track from last year.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: Which what is different, obviously is the results. Let's look
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: at the batting average the four seemer last year, opposing
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: hitters we're.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: Hitting two seventy six.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: This year they're hitting four twenty six and they are
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: slugging five thirty two.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: That is not good. Now. Granted, some of.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: It is you can attribute to bad babbit that is
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: batting average on balls in play be avip for those
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: of you who do not know. But even when you
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: take in the babbit peer, the expected numbers aren't really
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: all that better.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: They're lower, but not that much better.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: So this year, the expected batting average on Ryan Helsley's fastball.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Again, the batting average that counts in.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: The statistics is for twenty six, but the expecting batting
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: average as we head into play today on June twelfth
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: is three forty three, and the expected slugging is four ninety.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: Five, so that is also not what you want.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: I talked to Hellesley and he just said, yeah, I
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: have to figure out what's going on with the basketball.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: I'm really getting hit hard. He could I switch up
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: the usage a little bit more? Can I use the
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: slider a little bit more to play off?
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: We saw him mixing in his curve ball a little
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: bit more, sure like.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: But when I'm looking at the usage, it's really not
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: all that different from last year. The only difference is
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: that he's just getting rocked with the fastball and the
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: slider has It's been just as effective, if not more
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: than last year. I mean, opposing hitters are batting less
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: than one hundred off the slider and they have a
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: slugging of less than two hundred. So two completely different
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: pitches here that are working. And the fur seamer was
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: never really supposed to be the strikeout pitch. Obviously, you
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: use the four seamer and the triple digit bilo to
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: set up the slider. And when you have triple digits
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: and a wipeout slider like Brian Helsley, does you get
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: the results that you see most of.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: Twenty twenty four.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: For whatever reason, we're not seeing that right now with
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: Brian Helsley. Now, do I think this is a huge
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: cause for concern, a little bit, but not to the
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: extent where the Cardinals should contemplate a change to the
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: closer role.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: Not at all. One.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: He's allowed to have ten bad days over the stretch
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: of a season and a half. Does it make the
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: losses any easier?
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: No?
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: Can you point to the metrics and say, well, he's
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: actually been getting hit hard all season long?
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: You can. I won't disagree with you there.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: I do think the Cardinals need to figure out the usage,
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: what's going on with the fast why it has been
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: less effective.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: I'm with you there.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: I don't think we press the panic button and tear
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: up the bullpen because the closers had a rough stretch.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: Another reason why I'm saying that is because I don't
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: really know who else they have to close, right Who
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: else is going to come in and close games for
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: the Cardinals. Bill Mayiton's done a nice job, but he
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: doesn't really necessarily have closer stuff. He has eighth and
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: ing setup man stuff, and again he's done a really
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: nice job in that role. Kyle Lay, He's coming back
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: to earth a little bit that's okay, still effective, and
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: Gordon Grisseppo in Memphis right now at the moment unless
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: the Cardinals make a move, But I don't even think
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: he's eligible to be called up today. He has potential,
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: but they're not there. So Ryan Helsley remains the best
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: option to be the closer. What he and pitching coach
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: Dusty Blake need to do is figure out what a
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: better way for the fastball to be more effective. When
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: I talk to Ryan, I'll go ahead and read a
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: quote from that athletic story.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: He said, I feel good.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: The execution is good, knowing that my stuff is where
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: he wanted to be and that sometimes in this game
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: guys are going to c I'm trying to do my
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: best to not let that snowball effect the next day.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: I'm staying confident in my preparation and just being ready
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: to go when my name is called.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: Helsley continued.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: My metrics are good, but right now my babbi is
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: really high. He talked about this, it's almost twice as
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: high as league average. At some point it's got to
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: even out. But I have to continue to trust my
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: fastball and try to locate it a little better. So
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: reasons to be intrigued or encouraged about the fastball is
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: that Helsley is healthy.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: He feels good.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: This is not a mechanics thing. This is not his
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: body feeling out of sync. This is not injury related
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: by any means. It's just figuring out a better way
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: to execute, locate, and dominate with the fastball so he
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: can pare it with that cider and hopefully we'll get
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: back to seeing Ryan Helsley numbers. So that's another thing
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: that I'm watching in this series. I actually think again,
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: for as frustrating as that Blue Jay series is, this
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: series against the Brewers, this four game set in which
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: the Brewers just drop two of three, but have been
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: playing so much better ball over the last four weeks,
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: this is going to be a really trying point in
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: this season. I think we'll have a much better sense
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: of the direction of the Cardinals, whether it's the April
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: Cardinals or the May Cardinals, based on this series. So
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: that's why I'm not really trying to overreact to a
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: lot of what we saw in Toronto. Some of it
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: is matchup based. I think Allie Marmal made some great
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: points about the matchups there, but the Division matchup here,
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: four games on the road against Milwaukee with your top
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: four starters.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: They're going to throw sunny gray today.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: Eric Fatti, Miles Michaelis, Andre Polante switch that, Andrea Plante.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: Miles Michaelis, like, these are games. This is a series
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: that the Cardinals need to win if they want to
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: solidify themselves as a true threat in the Division. That's
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: to say nothing about their upcoming home stand three against
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: the red the Reds, four against the Cubs. So that
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: is what I'm looking at from the bullpen perspective. I
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: know there's been a lot of talk about the starting
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: pitching regressing. I can understand that too, and we will
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: get to it. We will talk about it. I promise
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: specifically about Andre Polante first though, a message from Hungary Rout.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: This one's easy for us to talk about. I'm a
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: huge fan of Hunger Rout. They're delivering groceries that we
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: want and groceries that we didn't know we want but
• 15:02
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• 15:03
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: Every box that I get from Hunger Root has a
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: new snack in it that I'm like, Oh, this looks interesting,
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: and then I try it, I'm like, oh, I might
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: need some more of those so they're great at not
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: only getting the groceries you want, but they surprised you
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: with tasty little treats that you didn't know you needed.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: Agreed, turkey jerky. There's like a chocolate pudding thing where
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm not a big chocolate pudding fan that
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: I have it and I'm like, this is awesome. So
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: they can cater to your knee. You got gluten free,
• 15:27
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• 15:55
  Speaker 1: What is up with our sponsors being only food related?
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: When I just said and it's lunchtime whatever, that's hungary
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: route check them out. Let's check out Andre Polante who
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: in case you missed it, Both Polante and Matthew Libertor,
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: where I guessed earlier in the week on Cardinal Territory.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: I thought they did a fantastic job. Polante told a
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: couple of hilarious stories on how he was a victim
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: of a team, an entire team prank in his rookie year,
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: and I'm here to tell you three seasons later, he
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: is still the victim of the clubhouse pranks.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: One thing that I really like.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: About watching players as they come up through the miners
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: and come to the major leagues is just watching how
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: much more comfortable they get in themselves. And I think
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Andrea and Livy did a really nice job and showing
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: their true personalities in the clubhouse.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: But maybe that's just me being soft.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: I don't know what I do know, Andre Polante is
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: not going anywhere. Before his last start against the Blue Jays,
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: I saw a lot of clamor that maybe it's time
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: to send Polonte to Memphis so he can work on
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: some things. And I'm here to tell you, my beloved
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: Cardinal Territory subscribers, I respectfully could not disagree with you more.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Let's first back up to what Polante is here to do.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: We've talked a lot about Matthew Libertor and the runway
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: and the opportunity and all of our favorite words, the
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: same does apply to Andre Polante, right like, just because
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: the Cardinals weren't as intentional with Matthew Libertor and rewarding
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: him the spot, Palante had that spot and they rewarded
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: that to him over the off season based on what
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: he did in the second half of twenty twenty four.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: So the same opportunity that's that is being extended to
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: Matthew Libertor is also being extended to Andre Polante.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: That's the whole point of this season.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: It's all about adjustments, right We talk about this a
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: lot with opposing hitters, will the same sentiment applies with
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: the pitching staff. We know Andre Polante needs to improve
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: against right handed hitters. We know that has been a
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: big focal point for him this season, and he started
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: out doing a pretty nice job. Now the posy hitters
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: have caught up and made their adjustments, so it's time
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: for Polante to make the adjustments against them, and he's
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: doing that by trying to utilize a better pitch mix.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: He made a big.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: Emphasis on Monday and trying to mix in the curve
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: ball a lot more. And that was something that he
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: said after the game candidly and also on the last
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: episode of Cardinal Territory, that he had.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Some aversion towards doing in his career.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: He had always found success as a soft contact, pitched
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: to contact, groundball kind of guy, and he was hesitant
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: to kind of stray away from the things that initially
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: brought him success in the major leagues.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: But here's the thing about the major leagues.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: The more he continue doing something, the more your opponent
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: is going to figure out that that's your mo and
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: then you have to adjust. So Polante there's finally a
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: breakthrough there that he needs to utilize the better pitch
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: mix if you want success against writings.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: So he's trying to incorporate the curve ball a lot more.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: It did a really nice job On Monday, Rocky Start
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: gave up a lot of hits in the first two innings,
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: but posted a quality start, allowed two earned runs over
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: six innings against that Blue Jays team, and I thought
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: did a really nice job of making those adjustments. He
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: cannot make those adjustments in triple A because he doesn't
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: have anything to prove against triple A hitters. He needs
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: to learn how to make those adjustments against major league hitters,
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: and both Livy and Polante talks about this in that
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: Fire episode. The draft difference in talent from the Triple
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: A level to the major league level dramatic. You cannot
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: replicate the major leagues, So sending Polante down to work
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: on things does nothing for him. He needs to work
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: on things at the major league level. Transition season. That
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: that's what this year is for Another thing that I heard,
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: I'll bring put Polante in the bullpen. Maybe he could
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: be a bullpen arm and bring McGreevy up. Everybody wants
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: to see Michael McGreevy. I want to see Michael McGreevy.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: Allie Marma wants to see Michael McGreevy. John Mozaeyloc wants
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: to see Michael McGreevy. We know why he's not here.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: If you put Polonte in the bullpen and bring McGreevy up,
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: you are once again at risk of depleting your starting
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: pitching depth. I don't know if you guys have seen
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: what's going around the major leagues right now, the starting
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: picturing injuries.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: It's a huge problem.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: And the Cardinals are one of the very very few
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: teams where a knock on wood a thousand times that
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: I have not had that problem. And that's a testament
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: to the pitchers taking care of their body. That's a
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: testament to the Cardinal's strength and medical team. That's a
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: testament to Allie Marmel and Dusty Blake and their usage plans.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: And also it's a little bit of luck. So you
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: can't put Polonte in the bullpen. One, you're depleting your
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: starting pitching depth.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Two.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: If the whole goal the season is to see if
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: Polante can be a starter, what do you accomplish by
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: moving him to the bullpen. So he's not going anywhere,
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: He's going to continue taking those starts. Are we going
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: to see Michael McGreevy again soon?
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Probably.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: He was optioned after his spots start against the Dodgers,
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: where Bernie and I talked about it was a pretty
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: decent start, saw a lot, made a good a lot
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: of adjustments and performed pretty well against the reigning World
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: Series champions, the Los Angeles Dodgers. Cardinals optioned him the
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: day after, like we speculated he would, so they could
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: bring him a fresh bullpen arm. He'll be eligible to
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: be recalled I believe June twenty fourth, which is the
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: second day of the four game set between the Cubs
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: and the Cardinals. I asked Ollie marmal if that was
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: intentional optioning him as early as possible so they could
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: use him against the Cubs.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: And he said that did play into their plans.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: He did not say if mcgey would specifically take that start,
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: but that remains an option.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: We will see Michael McGreevy.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Most likely, Cardinals have an off day on Monday and
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: then they play.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: I pull up my calendar hold on.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: Every single day until July third, so that's a stretch
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: of over two and a half weeks. They will need
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: a spot starter there. Michael mcgreeby makes all the sense
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: in the world for that. So Plante is not going anywhere.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Michael McGreevey probably coming back up to make another spot start.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: Matthew libertore a little bit of regression. That's gonna happen.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: It's about how he bounces back. I hear you about
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: the Cardinals pitching staff, and that's why, again, not to
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: make too much out of this Brewer series, but I
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: do think it's that important. That's when we can really
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: definitively say are they regressing or did they just have
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: a bad couple.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: Of turns through the rotation. So that's where we're.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: At, all right, last segment, it's middle of June, but
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: it's never too early, apparently to talk about.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: The trade deadline.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: And up at the Athletic we have a ton of
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: trade deadline primers, not just Cardinals related, but over half
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: the teams there are early storylines to watch about the
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: trade deadline. We'll talk over this briefly because again I
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: am starving, but it is much truarly to say what
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: the Cardinals are going to be, if they're going to
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: be buyers or sellers or the lesser used version or
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: phrase but still relevant the holders. And it's very much
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: going to depend on the next six weeks and how
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: they play. John Mosee la casaid all along he wants
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: to make or he hopes to have to make, difficult
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: decisions come the trade deadline, which is scheduled for July thirty, first,
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: five pm Central time, And if the Cardinals keep winning,
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: those decisions are going to be much more difficult. If
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: they lose, I you know, maybe concretering back to five
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: hundred or below which I don't think is in the
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: realm with possibilities, but I could be wrong. Then the
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: decisions become a little bit more easier, and you look at,
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: how you know, offloading maybe some talent that's unexpiring deals,
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: You look at if it Eric Fetti or Stephen Mattz
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: has trade value. You make a big decision about Ryan Helsley,
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: and we talk about that in this story. For all
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: the clamor of the Cardinals ney to trade Nolan Arnado,
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: I ask.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: You, did you learn that from the off season? It
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: is not going to be that easy.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: But I'm sure they would revisit that Right now, though,
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: we just kind of have to sit here and wait patiently.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: The next four weeks heading into the All Star break
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: will tell us a lot about Moe's plans. Some things
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: I do want to clear up, though, and we talk
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: about it in the story. John Moseylac is still very
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: much in charge.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Oops.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: John Moselac is still very much in charge of the
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: trade deadline. Him Bloom, while taking over in twenty twenty six,
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: remains available for consultation, but it's.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: Always been twenty twenty five. Moe's in charge of the
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: major league team.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: Bloom is in charge of the minor leagues and player development.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: What makes things tricky as as the Cardinals balance runway
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: results during the season.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: Moe is also going to.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: Have to do that at the trade deadline because it's
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: not just this year's club that he has to worry about.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: He also has an entire future of the organization that
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: will not be his responsibility, and the last thing he
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: wants to do is make this transition period difficult for
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: him Bloom.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: At the same time, do you think John Zaaleac wants
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: to go out a seller? I don't.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: So it's fascinating, it's fun. Let's flush the Blue Jay series.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: Let's focus on the Brewers. I really enjoy the Cardinals
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Brewer series. I think it's very competitive.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: The Brewers. You can never count them out. They're sneaky,
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: they're athletic. It will be a.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: Solid showing for the Cardinals if they can take three
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: of four from their Thanks for sticking with me.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: Dusty Blake is our next guest.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: That episode should come out at some point Friday afternoon
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: before the night game. Well, take a deep breath. It's
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: a new series, it's a new week. We're not at
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: the panic level.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Yet.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: If we happen to be, Bernie and I will happily
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: walk you through it at the end of the weekend.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: All right, stay safe out there, enjoy the series, and
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: we'll be back soon.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Thanks for watching something st