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Class, Contracts & Controversy: Rewriting the Playbook for West Virginia Sports · Let's Talk with Carl Lee

0:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, you gotta work. You gotta work. Bry Son is mine,
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Speaker 2: Bry Son. Another mile sag of Dog's Day.
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Speaker 3: Welcome to Let's Talk with Carl Lee. Join Karl alongside
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Speaker 3: frequent co hosts Lisa Odie and Hollis Lewis as they
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0:46
Speaker 2: Hello, ladies and gentlemen.
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Speaker 4: This is Carl Lee and I have both of my
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Speaker 4: co hosts in the building today, Lisa Odie and Hollis Lewis.
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Speaker 4: We have an interesting kind of a show today because
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Speaker 4: this is one of those kind of shows that I
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Speaker 4: think a whole lot of people have like a thought
1:03
Speaker 4: process behind it, like they have a they have a
1:06
Speaker 4: passionate kind of feel. But the person who I think
1:11
Speaker 4: knows how things are gonna go, where things are gonna
1:15
Speaker 4: go is is going to be our guest here today.
1:19
Speaker 4: Dana Ferrell and Dana are you?
1:23
Speaker 3: Are you?
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Speaker 5: There with us, Buddy, I am here right.
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Speaker 4: We're talking about the new classifications that the w v
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Speaker 4: S S a C just came out with here well
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Speaker 4: this week, yes, Hollis, do you have do you have
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Speaker 4: any of that information kind of to kind of read
1:44
Speaker 4: out just well yeah, well and I'll let Dana just
1:48
Speaker 4: jump in here, but just briefly, again, they kept the
1:51
Speaker 4: four classifications and instead of doing that wacky formula that
1:55
Speaker 4: they did last time, they these are strictly based off
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Speaker 4: enrollment numbers.
2:00
Speaker 2: Am I writing that, Delegate Defaril?
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Speaker 5: You're correct? They went back, you know, and I think
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Speaker 5: there was so much kicked back about trying there's no
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Speaker 5: fair way to do this period that probably the least
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Speaker 5: arguable would be just straight up enrollment.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, and it was some And again, could you just
2:19
Speaker 4: walk us through briefly why they did the formula lash
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Speaker 4: the way they did it. They based it off not
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Speaker 4: only enrollment, but they had you know, the size of
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Speaker 4: your city, your proximity to a city, and mediate income,
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Speaker 4: and they added a whole bunch of other factors in.
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Speaker 5: That's correct, and I think if you go back, the
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Speaker 5: whole roots of this goes back to especially in backball.
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Speaker 5: But some of the other sports. With the Catholic schools
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Speaker 5: dominating in the Class A levels that they were in,
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Speaker 5: and even to some extent once they moved into Double
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Speaker 5: A and some they were dominating as we've seen. So
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Speaker 5: there was always this argument that they needed their own
3:01
Speaker 5: division Catholic schools like some states have. Uh but I
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Speaker 5: think certainly the Catholic schools have a pretty powerful lobby
3:10
Speaker 5: with in and with the other principles, and so that
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Speaker 5: was not entertained much. But you know, so they came
3:16
Speaker 5: up with this formula. I think that, uh they and
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Speaker 5: I think that's where they were looking at your proximity
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Speaker 5: to uh cities or miss talties. I think it was
3:26
Speaker 5: ten thousand or more. It was the number, and and
3:30
Speaker 5: they thought, you know, okay, because those schools then may
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Speaker 5: have an advantage over there is a more rural area,
3:37
Speaker 5: and so that would you know, be the way that
3:39
Speaker 5: they would try to get h some bolots in that.
3:43
Speaker 5: So they uh, you know, I think the formula again,
3:48
Speaker 5: that's one of those things we say up there all
3:49
Speaker 5: the time. Hollis says this, the concept is great. Is
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Speaker 5: the application about a lot of pieces of the legislation
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Speaker 5: up there, you know, Yeah, I know the intensions were
4:01
Speaker 5: that you have applications, and I think that here. I
4:03
Speaker 5: think their intentions were to try to get the ballots.
4:05
Speaker 5: But you know when when it started playing out and
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Speaker 5: I and I could speak for you know, I got
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Speaker 5: the call immediately after that for my principal of my
4:12
Speaker 5: school over at Sistamville. And you know that as far
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Speaker 5: as Paul County goes one smaller schools in the county,
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Speaker 5: and yet because of their proximity to the Charleston city
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Speaker 5: of them, it's which extend out Route twenty one for
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Speaker 5: quite a ways. Uh, it put them within that that
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Speaker 5: proximity to Charleston, which penalized them and threw them up
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Speaker 5: into Triple A. And they you know, they've been over
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Speaker 5: ten in the last two football teams. Yeah, yes, the
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Speaker 5: last thing they needed.
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Speaker 4: So so do you think that with the new formula
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Speaker 4: and how the classification shook out this time, do you
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Speaker 4: think they got it right? Well?
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Speaker 5: I don't know we could ever say, and I think
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Speaker 5: every other of this there's never going to get it right,
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Speaker 5: but I think there's going to be as close to
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Speaker 5: right if we do this. There's a couple of things
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Speaker 5: I would love to be able to see. Number one
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Speaker 5: is they give the break up of the divisions. If
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Speaker 5: we're going to have four classes, let an outside enterty
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Speaker 5: out of states do that, so there's complete objectivity on that.
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Speaker 5: I think the way they do it now is, you know,
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Speaker 5: obviously there's school master's ak, principals and ads come together
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Speaker 5: all one hundred and whatever ten of them or so,
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Speaker 5: and of those, any one of those could submit a proposal,
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Speaker 5: and those proposals go before the full body. I think
5:34
Speaker 5: they met up at Stonewall Junction Resort this week and
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Speaker 5: they'll throw those out there and then they, you know,
5:42
Speaker 5: we do it down to they have you know, a
5:44
Speaker 5: top two or three and then they take a vote
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Speaker 5: on those. But I know that's how they did in
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Speaker 5: the fall, and they had you know, some different proposals
5:53
Speaker 5: there and then the principals ultimately vote learned. I think
5:56
Speaker 5: this is where a lot of people get sidetracked or
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Speaker 5: get to long impressions. They think that these decisions are
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Speaker 5: made out of Parkersburg and the directors up there are
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Speaker 5: the ones making these decisions, and they're not. You know,
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Speaker 5: the principals, the member schools, the principles come together and
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Speaker 5: put forth their suggestions for how they want to go,
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Speaker 5: and then they vote on it and ultimately whatever's decided
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Speaker 5: to pull and then those directors in Parkersburg are settled
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Speaker 5: with the responsibility to carry it out.
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Speaker 6: So, Dana, I'm sorry, go ahead. Oh I just had
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Speaker 6: a question really quick. It's Lisa by the way. Hey,
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Speaker 6: So this is not set in stone though, right, because
6:36
Speaker 6: we still have a thirty day public comment phase, and
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Speaker 6: then of course the state Board of Education would also
6:42
Speaker 6: have to accept it. Right, What would happen if that
6:45
Speaker 6: did not happen? I mean, what have happened? I mean,
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Speaker 6: I'm just playing Devil's advocate here, But if there was
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Speaker 6: an outcry from the public about they didn't really like this,
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Speaker 6: although I can't imagine not liking it because I think
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Speaker 6: it's probably the fairest system we've had, and you know
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Speaker 6: since the last one that if that would be the case,
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Speaker 6: what would happen then?
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Speaker 5: Well, my understanding is that it goes back to the
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Speaker 5: last formula that we had. It was the one fast
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Speaker 5: fault that they really liked. But that's weird defaults back
7:15
Speaker 5: to that until they gate through the cycle again. They
7:18
Speaker 5: can agree on something. But you're correct, you know, there's
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Speaker 5: all these comment periods and so forth, and the state
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Speaker 5: Board has to approve it, and they're only meeting at
7:28
Speaker 5: certain times. And I think that's why they came together
7:31
Speaker 5: as they did right now, because the State Board of
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Speaker 5: Education as soon as this thirty day period is that
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Speaker 5: meets here to get to April and they'll vote on it.
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Speaker 5: That they do, then things will fall into place. But
7:45
Speaker 5: if they go any further than that, you can see why,
7:47
Speaker 5: you know, summer practices and schedules are being made things
7:50
Speaker 5: that just gets you know, so they have to stick
7:52
Speaker 5: with what they have. Yeah, because I'm like you, I
7:54
Speaker 5: don't see a problem with that board or this because
7:57
Speaker 5: you remember that there was a proposal they had coming
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Speaker 5: out of Stonewall in October that I thought, you know,
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Speaker 5: they thought was pretty good proposal, but the it had
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Speaker 5: it still had some components of the formula in there,
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Speaker 5: and the state rejected it because of that's so.
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Speaker 6: And they do want to implement it this year, right
8:19
Speaker 6: the twenty five to twenty sixth season. They want to
8:21
Speaker 6: implement it immediately.
8:22
Speaker 5: Okay, that's correct. I do think the provo, especially on football,
8:27
Speaker 5: because you have to make this schedule so far out right,
8:30
Speaker 5: there'll still be some scheduling issues with that. But you know,
8:35
Speaker 5: for some schools, what.
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Speaker 4: Are you hearing about conference possible realignment? Because when you
8:41
Speaker 4: take some schools like, for example, you take a school
8:44
Speaker 4: like George Washington, where they're going to be in Quada,
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Speaker 4: in a school like Capital, they're going to be they're
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Speaker 4: going to be in Triple A, but historically they've been
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Speaker 4: in the same conference. So is there going to be
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Speaker 4: any effort to realign those conferences to make sure the
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Speaker 4: conferences are indicative of the class and which the schools
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Speaker 4: are in.
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Speaker 5: Well, that's a good question. We've been in I think
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Speaker 5: we've been in such flux over the last two or
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Speaker 5: three years with this that there's probably going to be
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Speaker 5: a wait and see, make sure this is going to
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Speaker 5: stick thing before you start to conference re alignment. But
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Speaker 5: I think ultimately once we get seven on something, then
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Speaker 5: that's going to have to take place, because, uh, your conferences,
9:21
Speaker 5: you know, require a certain amount of games to be
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Speaker 5: played and your ratings points, especially at football. Yeah, yeah,
9:29
Speaker 5: you get you know, so g W even if they
9:32
Speaker 5: go and went against Capital, you know that that cost
9:36
Speaker 5: in points playing a triple at school unless and I
9:40
Speaker 5: think you know, and I suggested this in the past
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Speaker 5: that because I like to see these rivalries. Uh, whether
9:46
Speaker 5: it's South Charleston g W g W Campill and those
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Speaker 5: or Capital South Charleston. Uh, anytime those schools play each other,
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Speaker 5: you know it's a Riberry situation. I throw out the records,
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Speaker 5: and so you want them playing each other. And I
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Speaker 5: think that whether it's Poka Nitro, Ripley Ravens would and
10:01
Speaker 5: there's kinds of situations whether there are different classes, but
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Speaker 5: there are natural rivals that there should be. Every school
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Speaker 5: should have at least two variances when they're scheduled to
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Speaker 5: where they're not pendle astra playing down a conference or
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Speaker 5: a class.
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Speaker 2: To That's a really good idea. Dan.
10:18
Speaker 4: I'm going to go just a little bit off off
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Speaker 4: this path a little bit and ask the question, is
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Speaker 4: there can you see at any given time in the future.
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Speaker 4: I'm going to call it inn I own money falling
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Speaker 4: into West Virginia, whether it be high school, whether it
10:37
Speaker 4: be college, and I guess it basically it is in college.
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Speaker 2: Do we see this happening?
10:43
Speaker 4: Is is there an opportunity for this to actually take place?
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Speaker 5: Unfortunately? Yeah, what you're saying it is and I know
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Speaker 5: that this is something we talk with the directors of
10:55
Speaker 5: the SSAC, and what I've been told there is at
10:57
Speaker 5: least thirty two states that have some form the n
11:00
Speaker 5: I L at the high school level currently, So uh,
11:03
Speaker 5: it's coming in. I always say this about all there
11:06
Speaker 5: be the transfer portal, uh travel ball bills and now
11:09
Speaker 5: in LL these are national issues. It isn't to West Virginia. Uh,
11:15
Speaker 5: we're just caught in the in the middle of it.
11:17
Speaker 5: Each state's trying to jockey around and figure out how
11:20
Speaker 5: they're going to handle it. And I think, you know,
11:23
Speaker 5: these are really tough I think to deal with because
11:26
Speaker 5: you know, you look at what individually, you know, I
11:29
Speaker 5: think on any of these issues and the three I
11:31
Speaker 5: just named, if you look at it individually, you can
11:34
Speaker 5: make a very good case for it, but when you
11:36
Speaker 5: put it together collectively, it's it's a nightmare. And I think,
11:41
Speaker 5: you know, look at look at the college level. I
11:43
Speaker 5: say this down here. You know, when they were going
11:45
Speaker 5: running the bill A to the four to basically dismantle
11:47
Speaker 5: the S S A C and replace it with government
11:51
Speaker 5: governor issue and the commissionerssion, I said, yeah, it was
11:56
Speaker 5: just crazy. And I'm thinking, you know, we thought the
11:59
Speaker 5: n C Double Way was the bad guy and they
12:01
Speaker 5: didn't get it all right, for sure, But when the
12:05
Speaker 5: government got involved and started, you know, changing laws, and
12:08
Speaker 5: with what we have at college sports at this point,
12:10
Speaker 5: do we really want to do that to the last
12:13
Speaker 5: bastion of amateur sports we have at the high school's
12:17
Speaker 5: classic level. I don't think, you know, the woman majority
12:20
Speaker 5: of people in this state at least you don't want that.
12:23
Speaker 5: And so that's as they see. If not perfect, any
12:26
Speaker 5: means there's a lot of things they could do better
12:28
Speaker 5: us getting classifications correct.
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Speaker 6: Well. The good thing is I think they can revisit
12:33
Speaker 6: it every two years now instead of four. Did they
12:35
Speaker 6: did they add that into the into the college and.
12:40
Speaker 5: I like that at least I've said all all it's
12:43
Speaker 5: in a perfect world, you would be able to look
12:46
Speaker 5: at least every two years and look at winning percentages
12:49
Speaker 5: in the top two winning percentages each school perve sport
12:54
Speaker 5: would move up the class and the bottom the bottom
12:58
Speaker 5: two and that would move down a class, and so
13:01
Speaker 5: you have kind of a you know, so you would
13:04
Speaker 5: be moving around a little bit too maintain some balance, yes,
13:09
Speaker 5: you know, and I don't want to sing when the
13:11
Speaker 5: schools out. But let's say Bridgeport, you know they they
13:14
Speaker 5: went and away, Yeah, they could dominate football, what have you? Okay,
13:18
Speaker 5: if they went to the state championship two years in
13:20
Speaker 5: a row, moving them on up to Quada at least
13:23
Speaker 5: in that sport, and let's see how we do. But
13:26
Speaker 5: that would be very hard to manage. Uh And and
13:29
Speaker 5: I've heard, I don't know the details on it, that
13:31
Speaker 5: Pennsylvania is using some form of that and they're riddled
13:36
Speaker 5: with lawsuits over it.
13:38
Speaker 4: I don't know if I'm a big fan of that. Well, Dana,
13:45
Speaker 4: we appreciate the information, and uh we will. I'm sure
13:48
Speaker 4: we will be back in touch with you again soon.
13:51
Speaker 5: Oh we're always great to talk to you.
13:52
Speaker 3: Guys.
13:53
Speaker 5: Missed my old uh set team there were ready, we're waiting.
14:00
Speaker 2: I took your place.
14:02
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, I know, I can't no match for how
14:08
Speaker 5: I will take his place on the house for here
14:09
Speaker 5: in just a minute.
14:12
Speaker 4: I think I just got a better see said, well,
14:14
Speaker 4: we would love to have you on the other side,
14:16
Speaker 4: but that's a different story.
14:19
Speaker 5: Well sometimes I do. I get a cure sometimes to
14:22
Speaker 5: be on the other side. So yeah, Well, anyway.
14:24
Speaker 2: Okay, we appreciating.
14:28
Speaker 7: We'll talk, so okay, bye bye, all right, so let
14:34
Speaker 7: me I almost he brought up an interesting point, and
14:37
Speaker 7: the only thing I don't like about this is that
14:40
Speaker 7: the classifications are just so unequal, Like if you look
14:44
Speaker 7: at Quada, it's only twenty teams, and I feel that's
14:47
Speaker 7: a problem.
14:48
Speaker 4: And I feel I still think, like again to his point,
14:53
Speaker 4: when you have to mix up how they did it
14:54
Speaker 4: last year and how they're doing it this year, and
14:57
Speaker 4: you're having conferences where you can have a triple A team,
15:01
Speaker 4: a quad A team, a single A team, they could
15:04
Speaker 4: all be in the one to be the same conference,
15:06
Speaker 4: and you're getting punished and rewarded for even playing winning
15:10
Speaker 4: and losing. So I think the next iteration of this,
15:13
Speaker 4: I would really like to see just it equals. So
15:16
Speaker 4: we got one hundred and fifteen teams, I like to
15:17
Speaker 4: see about you know, twenty five or thirty in each
15:20
Speaker 4: class or something like that.
15:22
Speaker 6: But you know, the disparity on the numbers. I was
15:24
Speaker 6: looking at like the cutoffs for each classification, and I
15:28
Speaker 6: think for QUADA it's one thousand and fifty or above,
15:32
Speaker 6: and then for Triple A it's six hundred and twenty
15:34
Speaker 6: five or above.
15:35
Speaker 2: Correct six hundred and twenty five to one thousand and
15:38
Speaker 2: forty nine.
15:39
Speaker 6: So that's a huge difference if you're one of those
15:41
Speaker 6: schools that's on the cusp of Triple A at you know,
15:44
Speaker 6: just barely making it at six twenty five, and then
15:46
Speaker 6: they're going to be playing a school like Capital who's
15:48
Speaker 6: like one thousand and forty eight population of at their school.
15:51
Speaker 6: I mean, that could be a huge difference in the
15:54
Speaker 6: number of student athletes that you have to choose from
15:56
Speaker 6: correct and to that fact.
16:01
Speaker 4: That's the challenge that I have with you know, Okay,
16:04
Speaker 4: so the top number and the bottom number.
16:06
Speaker 2: Top number is always okay, but it's.
16:08
Speaker 4: It's it's that lower that lower number that is the problem.
16:13
Speaker 4: You know that that team that's sitting there with the
16:16
Speaker 4: lowest number, that number is.
16:18
Speaker 2: So far from the top number.
16:21
Speaker 6: But you have to have those numbers. So it's just
16:24
Speaker 6: how you fix it.
16:25
Speaker 2: I get it.
16:25
Speaker 4: But but if I'm that low team, I'm a I'm
16:29
Speaker 4: automatically thinking to myself, I need to be down on
16:33
Speaker 4: the next level.
16:36
Speaker 2: I mean, if you look at quaud A like you
16:38
Speaker 2: look at.
16:38
Speaker 6: Preston A, Capital Fields about going from quad to.
16:41
Speaker 4: Triple A last year were okay, well, I think if
16:46
Speaker 4: you look at they were originally quad.
16:49
Speaker 6: Oh okay, okay, that's what I was.
16:50
Speaker 4: So, Like, if you look at Preston County, they got
16:52
Speaker 4: eleven hundred kids in the top school in the state.
16:54
Speaker 4: Morgantown they got about seventeen hundred kids. You're talking about
16:58
Speaker 4: a six hundred kid different friends. I mean, it's it's significant,
17:02
Speaker 4: but I don't know if it's you know, Okay, let
17:05
Speaker 4: me ask this question and and this is this is
17:07
Speaker 4: just this is is a simple stupid number question.
17:13
Speaker 2: Are the numbers? Are the numbers really what we want?
17:16
Speaker 4: Like, I mean, does the numbers necessarily dictate how good
17:19
Speaker 4: of a football team I'm going to have?
17:21
Speaker 2: Not at all.
17:21
Speaker 6: I mean I think Bridget can hang with any team.
17:26
Speaker 4: I'm not sure that what we're what we're, what we're
17:31
Speaker 4: going after to rank them or to place them is
17:35
Speaker 4: not really.
17:36
Speaker 2: The what else?
17:37
Speaker 6: What other options do we have? I can't go back
17:40
Speaker 6: to the other system. I mean, I thought that system
17:42
Speaker 6: was terrible.
17:43
Speaker 4: Terrible, well, and I'm not opposed to that. There was
17:45
Speaker 4: some conversation about you know, where you in in the season,
17:50
Speaker 4: Let's say, like you.
17:54
Speaker 2: How you rank.
17:55
Speaker 4: Let's just say, okay, so we start wherever we however,
17:57
Speaker 4: we get started, right.
17:58
Speaker 2: So so Capital's there, South Charleston is there.
18:02
Speaker 4: Okay, South Charleston ends up being the top team in
18:06
Speaker 4: that conference. Charleston ends up being the bottom team in
18:10
Speaker 4: that conference in their conference. So it's Charleston, this Charleston
18:17
Speaker 4: belong somewhere else again, you know. And and it's comment
18:21
Speaker 4: after that, Pennsylvania is flittered with lawsuits. You have to
18:25
Speaker 4: have an objective metric. It can't be this and that
18:29
Speaker 4: and that and this, because everybody's going to have some
18:31
Speaker 4: sort of complaint. So enrollment numbers is the only way.
18:36
Speaker 4: It's the only objective way to measure.
18:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no way to do it.
18:41
Speaker 4: So I look at that and and I hear you,
18:45
Speaker 4: and all I think about is like, okay, so I'm
18:47
Speaker 4: looking at this, this big, huge community that has a
18:51
Speaker 4: ton of kids, and then I'm on the and then
18:54
Speaker 4: your community is on the bottom of that far size.
19:00
Speaker 4: As far as size goes, you ain't got You have
19:03
Speaker 4: no chance ever to compete.
19:08
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say that, well, let me.
19:10
Speaker 6: Ask you you guys this because I'm not sure. And
19:12
Speaker 6: I wish I would have asked day him when we
19:14
Speaker 6: had them on the line, but there was a clause
19:16
Speaker 6: or what I've read on social social social media that
19:20
Speaker 6: private schools will have the option to play up a class.
19:24
Speaker 6: I don't know if that's true or not. But if
19:26
Speaker 6: it is true, why why would that be an option
19:30
Speaker 6: for a private school? You think maybe maybe we could
19:35
Speaker 6: find out.
19:35
Speaker 4: I'm not sure if that's true, but what I would
19:38
Speaker 4: guess is that because their funding is a little different,
19:41
Speaker 4: and they have the ability to get kids who may
19:46
Speaker 4: be at a higher socioeconomic level. So again, and they're
19:50
Speaker 4: not bound necessarily by the rules of public schools.
19:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I guess that.
19:56
Speaker 6: I just didn't understand. Yeah, okay, but does that makes sense?
20:00
Speaker 6: Doesn't seem fair, but it makes sense.
20:02
Speaker 4: But I would say this, I would say as far
20:04
Speaker 4: as like whether you're looking at the numbers or not,
20:07
Speaker 4: whether it kind of stuck on that or not. I
20:08
Speaker 4: think the more pergnanent issue is that we have to
20:12
Speaker 4: evolve as a state, and we need to get at
20:15
Speaker 4: the very least, at the very least, we need full
20:19
Speaker 4: time athletic directors because if you are at a smaller school,
20:23
Speaker 4: you at a smaller community. If you had a full
20:25
Speaker 4: time athletic director who's sole purpose is to improve the
20:30
Speaker 4: athletic programs and activities at that school. Who who has
20:33
Speaker 4: who can raise money and who can you know, go
20:36
Speaker 4: to the trainers and help the coaches at that community.
20:39
Speaker 4: I think that's where you sort of equal the playing field, right,
20:42
Speaker 4: because if you have a stud athletic director, who who
20:46
Speaker 4: is you know, all in you have like Innate Burton
20:49
Speaker 4: Burton who was at Westernia State now is that firm
20:51
Speaker 4: and at a smaller community, that person could be charged
20:56
Speaker 4: with trying to elevate the program.
20:58
Speaker 2: So I think we have to And again even.
21:00
Speaker 4: To that point, we got to talk about full time
21:02
Speaker 4: coaches like other states, you know, other states coaches at
21:05
Speaker 4: highswood level making one hundred thousand dollars. See that to me,
21:09
Speaker 4: I'm thinking it would be it would be worth somebody's
21:14
Speaker 4: time to be a full time coach at the high
21:18
Speaker 4: school level and that be his or her job solely
21:24
Speaker 4: and you get paid whatever that whatever those numbers are.
21:29
Speaker 4: But I know, I know, I know, four thousand dollars
21:35
Speaker 4: is not enough.
21:36
Speaker 6: It's just not enough for a And then you would
21:39
Speaker 6: have the issue of where's the funding coming from. We're
21:41
Speaker 6: already that's right.
21:42
Speaker 2: I mean, I.
21:46
Speaker 4: Don't know who you have to really love football, you
21:49
Speaker 4: have to really love the school that you're at, you
21:51
Speaker 4: have to really love the kids that you're coaching to
21:55
Speaker 4: take that small amount, and you're basically working year round,
21:59
Speaker 4: and that's where and that's from the outside end. And
22:01
Speaker 4: I think that was sort of the conventional wisdom of
22:04
Speaker 4: having teachers do that, because that four thousand with actors
22:07
Speaker 4: a supplement too, said, right, salary, But when you're talking
22:10
Speaker 4: about having a person from the outside coming in who's
22:13
Speaker 4: not a teacher, who you have to during the season,
22:16
Speaker 4: you're spending fifty hours plus a week, you know, training
22:20
Speaker 4: and preparing to different things like that, and probably off
22:23
Speaker 4: season twenty to thirty hours if you're really putting in
22:26
Speaker 4: the work. So it's not feasible for a lot of people.
22:30
Speaker 4: So I think we have to get to somewhere where
22:32
Speaker 4: we can actually, you know, like I said, pay coaches,
22:35
Speaker 4: pay athletic directors, and I think that could help level
22:38
Speaker 4: the playing field and to the to the athletic director
22:42
Speaker 4: part of it, you know. And I've been you know,
22:46
Speaker 4: fortunately out at South Charleston, and I can make the
22:49
Speaker 4: case you know that you know, you have Bryce Castuff
22:51
Speaker 4: someone like that that's that's there who is adamant about
22:56
Speaker 4: wanting to all the programs to to be successful. That's
23:03
Speaker 4: a difficult that's a difficult task. But I think in
23:08
Speaker 4: most cases, people want football, they want basketball, you know,
23:13
Speaker 4: as those are somewhat the lead sports. Now I'll give
23:16
Speaker 4: you that. Now soccer is coming, you know, baseball and
23:21
Speaker 4: baseball as well. So now when you start talking about winning,
23:26
Speaker 4: is there is it possible at the high school level
23:31
Speaker 4: to be dominant in all of those particular sports one
23:34
Speaker 4: school be dominant in all of those particular sports.
23:38
Speaker 2: I don't think that that's really possible, And the reason.
23:41
Speaker 6: Why depends on the I mean especially, I think there's
23:45
Speaker 6: a big correlation between football and basketball because a lot
23:47
Speaker 6: of the athletes that the kids that play football will
23:50
Speaker 6: go into the play basketball.
23:52
Speaker 2: Here's why I ask that question.
23:53
Speaker 4: Here's why I'm asking that question because what I know
23:58
Speaker 4: is a lot of times that kid that can play
24:01
Speaker 4: football but plays basketball, he's playing basketball. He's focusing on basketball.
24:06
Speaker 4: He's not gonna do he's not gonna do the dual sports.
24:10
Speaker 2: Are we wrong for.
24:11
Speaker 4: Holding these kids away from playing dual sports? Should we
24:15
Speaker 4: be motivating them to play football and basketball?
24:19
Speaker 2: Or should we is it fair.
24:21
Speaker 4: To say, nah, I don't just pass up pass up football,
24:24
Speaker 4: you know, just focus on your focus on your basketball.
24:27
Speaker 2: I know two players.
24:28
Speaker 4: I know two players in my era who a coach
24:34
Speaker 4: told them not to play football. Well, I think that
24:37
Speaker 4: sentiment's changing because I think what kids are seeing now
24:40
Speaker 4: is that you have to be an athlete no matter what.
24:42
Speaker 2: Right see. I think you're playing.
24:44
Speaker 4: But I think to the point is like, if you're
24:47
Speaker 4: at a bigger school, So if you're at a Morgantown
24:50
Speaker 4: where you have almost eighteen hundred kids, then I think
24:54
Speaker 4: because you have more to choose from, then you don't
24:57
Speaker 4: necessarily maybe that kid doesn't who plays football, maybe don't
25:00
Speaker 4: necessarily need him on the basketball team to be successful.
25:03
Speaker 4: So but when you're at a smaller school, you need
25:05
Speaker 4: the kid to play basketball, football, baseball, You need them,
25:09
Speaker 4: You need to play everything to be good. So I
25:11
Speaker 4: think that's the I think when you talk about dominance,
25:14
Speaker 4: that's where the advantage of the bigger schools coming to play.
25:18
Speaker 4: Because a school like Spring Mill, Martinsburg, Morgantown, we see
25:22
Speaker 4: that they're good in football, women's basketball, men's basketball, track, baseball,
25:27
Speaker 4: they're kind of they're they're they're at the top at
25:30
Speaker 4: all those sports because they just have a bigger pool,
25:32
Speaker 4: right right. But I would say this, I do think
25:37
Speaker 4: that parents should be thinking about having their kids like
25:43
Speaker 4: in multiple sports just for the just for the sake
25:46
Speaker 4: of their being Like, what are you doing in the
25:49
Speaker 4: off season of football?
25:51
Speaker 2: What are you doing? If you're not playing another sport?
25:53
Speaker 2: What are you doing?
25:54
Speaker 6: I think track is a good option.
25:56
Speaker 4: Absolutely, And track is dying on the high school level.
26:01
Speaker 4: It's dying. And it's it's yeah here, it's dying, you know,
26:07
Speaker 4: and and and and and we're and we're to your point, Holliss,
26:11
Speaker 4: we're overlooking track. And it's important that the importance of it, Like,
26:16
Speaker 4: come on, when you when you start talking about trying
26:19
Speaker 4: to get through the combine, you start talking about trying
26:21
Speaker 4: to get to.
26:22
Speaker 2: To a D one school, what are they gonna do.
26:24
Speaker 2: They're gonna, they gonna they're gonna put you on the clock.
26:27
Speaker 4: But I think I think what happened though around here
26:29
Speaker 4: and again I think the sentiment is changing. Uh what
26:32
Speaker 4: happened around here is like again, you know, you have
26:34
Speaker 4: those football and basketball players. Instead of playing those auxiliary sports,
26:37
Speaker 4: those other sports, they filled it with travel sports. So
26:41
Speaker 4: you know, in the off season and basketball playing AU
26:44
Speaker 4: and with the younger kids in off season of football,
26:46
Speaker 4: some of them aren't running track and playing baseball. They're
26:48
Speaker 4: playing travel football. So they're playing like that. That's there.
26:51
Speaker 4: They they are involved in a sport. They are doing something.
26:54
Speaker 4: They're just playing that similar sport all year around. Where now,
26:58
Speaker 4: I think, what's happening, Because again, if you're ranking yourself nationally,
27:03
Speaker 4: which a lot of people are doing, which Dana Ferrol
27:05
Speaker 4: Delicate Farrel kind of mentioned that, they're starting to look
27:08
Speaker 4: nationally outside of the States. So a lot of kids
27:11
Speaker 4: are looking at night like, dang, this is the number
27:13
Speaker 4: one recruit and he plays football, basketball, and he runs
27:16
Speaker 4: track and he swims in the summer. So they're starting
27:18
Speaker 4: to see that. So I think kids are now starting
27:20
Speaker 4: to say, hey, I'm gonna be as athletic as possible.
27:23
Speaker 2: You look at like guys like zaj Jackins.
27:25
Speaker 4: And Collins from Huntington respectfully and Princeton who went to WVU.
27:31
Speaker 4: Those are track guys. They ran track, they played basketball,
27:33
Speaker 4: they did a variety of sports. So I think the
27:35
Speaker 4: sentiment is slowly starting to change back. I just think
27:38
Speaker 4: I just think if you're listening to this, and you're
27:40
Speaker 4: a parent and you have a child that's at at
27:42
Speaker 4: a younger age that has an opportunity to do multiple
27:46
Speaker 4: sports and encourage him or her simply because it is
27:53
Speaker 4: the best way. Well, let me throw this idea, y'all,
27:55
Speaker 4: and I'll start with relisha. What do you think about like,
27:58
Speaker 4: for example, when we talked going back to the numbers,
28:01
Speaker 4: and we didn't give out the full numbers as far
28:05
Speaker 4: as like quada is one thousand and fifty or more,
28:11
Speaker 4: Triple A is six hundred and fifty to one thy
28:14
Speaker 4: forty nine, Double A is three hundred and fifty one
28:18
Speaker 4: to six twenty four far as enrollment numbers, and single
28:21
Speaker 4: A is three fifty or less. Right, So when you
28:24
Speaker 4: do have like smaller schools, Now, again this is nineteenth
28:28
Speaker 4: eleventh twelfth grade, what about the possibility of eighth graders
28:33
Speaker 4: being allowed to play high school football or high school sports?
28:37
Speaker 4: Like when UK cause, like, for example, you got like
28:40
Speaker 4: these community schools where it's like K through twelve.
28:45
Speaker 6: You know, maybe physically they there may be an athlete
28:48
Speaker 6: here here or there that physically would be able to
28:50
Speaker 6: hang with some of these high school you know, athletes,
28:53
Speaker 6: But I think eighth grade, even if they're physically able,
28:56
Speaker 6: I don't think mentally they're ready to be a part
28:59
Speaker 6: of that whole scenario. There's a huge difference between an
29:02
Speaker 6: eighth grader and a senior.
29:03
Speaker 4: Well, I'm saying, I'm saying like, like eighth graders and
29:06
Speaker 4: ninth graders will be like relegated to like the JV
29:09
Speaker 4: team unless you got the stud ninth grade right, But
29:12
Speaker 4: I'm saying like those eight graders will be like you're
29:14
Speaker 4: playing JV to What I'm saying is like you get
29:16
Speaker 4: him in the program.
29:17
Speaker 6: Then what happens to the middle school programs six and seventh?
29:20
Speaker 4: I mean, you still got a middle school program in
29:22
Speaker 4: just two years. I mean what you think?
29:25
Speaker 6: I mean, I think it's a novel idea. I'm just
29:28
Speaker 6: I don't know if I'd be a fan of it.
29:30
Speaker 6: That's a lot to ask of an eighth grade.
29:33
Speaker 4: What what what I'm what I hear not saying what
29:38
Speaker 4: you mean. But I'm saying what I hear though, is
29:42
Speaker 4: again we're cherry picking the talented player to do something.
29:49
Speaker 4: We're allowing him or her to do something for the
29:53
Speaker 4: betterment of them and or the betterment of the other program.
29:57
Speaker 4: I mean cherry picking were saying, eighth grade you could play.
30:00
Speaker 4: Eighth grade, you can play in high school, you played.
30:02
Speaker 2: But you played.
30:04
Speaker 4: But the only the only really ones is that really
30:08
Speaker 4: are good? Like why am I gonna play JV when
30:10
Speaker 4: I can play varsity at the at the level that
30:14
Speaker 4: I'm at.
30:15
Speaker 2: Because we're going we're getting you in the program earlier.
30:18
Speaker 2: I don't need to be in a programmer.
30:20
Speaker 6: Is this something Hollis they're doing you've heard of nationwide?
30:23
Speaker 5: Is it?
30:23
Speaker 4: Is it?
30:23
Speaker 6: Is it something that's a trend or just an idea?
30:27
Speaker 4: It's an idea, but I've heard it in a couple
30:29
Speaker 4: of different places, like for example, like in Kentucky, like
30:34
Speaker 4: those middle schoolers and this is mostly basketball middle school.
30:38
Speaker 4: Like oj Mail for example, he's seventh grade. He played
30:40
Speaker 4: on the varsity high school team. You know what I'm saying,
30:42
Speaker 4: and get us basketball. It's different scenario. But what I'm
30:45
Speaker 4: saying is like, if you are at one of these
30:47
Speaker 4: little community schools where like, for example, you got like
30:51
Speaker 4: Pickens Elementary High School, it's got I ain't gonna use
30:54
Speaker 4: that one. But you got like Harmon Elementary High School,
30:57
Speaker 4: it's got thirty one people in it. You know, what
31:00
Speaker 4: I'm saying, if they had a sports team, why wouldn't
31:02
Speaker 4: that Why couldn't that eighth grader just play well?
31:05
Speaker 6: I mean that would be beneficial for the smaller schools,
31:07
Speaker 6: but I could see a scenario in the larger schools
31:10
Speaker 6: where they would they would, like you said, they would
31:13
Speaker 6: hand pick those eighth graders that they see potential, and
31:16
Speaker 6: they'd enter the transfer portal to come to their school
31:18
Speaker 6: as an eighth grader and become a part of the
31:20
Speaker 6: JV team to groom them.
31:25
Speaker 2: You're losing community, Yeah, you're losing Communit know that.
31:30
Speaker 4: I'm saying, like Horseman, thone excuse Westside kids, don't you
31:34
Speaker 4: just go to Capitol like you and go anyway?
31:36
Speaker 2: You just play it.
31:36
Speaker 6: If they're really really good, then Martinsburg or somebody else
31:39
Speaker 6: is going to swoop in and get those players that
31:41
Speaker 6: are capable.
31:42
Speaker 2: Possibly, Lady, I don't. I don't think.
31:46
Speaker 4: I don't think that there's there's there's any.
31:50
Speaker 5: Need for.
31:54
Speaker 4: Quote young talent, young talented, let's say middle school kids
32:01
Speaker 4: to be in a rush to get to high school.
32:04
Speaker 4: I don't think that just because I'm really good in
32:06
Speaker 4: middle school doesn't I ain't saying we know you keep saying,
32:10
Speaker 4: I ain't saying good, I'm saying eighth grader, eighth grader.
32:13
Speaker 4: I'm saying, we ain't talking about We ain't Cherry Pikett
32:15
Speaker 4: saying the eighth grader you're gonna play basketball.
32:16
Speaker 2: Football, or whatever the hell you're saying.
32:18
Speaker 4: So you're not saying that automatic it would get They.
32:21
Speaker 6: Can go right, no matter what, we can go. So
32:24
Speaker 6: what what how do you think the high schools would
32:25
Speaker 6: feel about that? So when they have to take all
32:27
Speaker 6: the eighth graders that are that want to come play.
32:29
Speaker 4: First, If I'm a high school coach and that's what
32:31
Speaker 4: I'm doing, if I can get that kid into my
32:34
Speaker 4: program earlier, let's go. And the thing is, you're going
32:36
Speaker 4: to be competing against other eighth and ninth graders and
32:40
Speaker 4: I can filled out a whole JV schedule, So now
32:43
Speaker 4: I can really get a JV schedule. I got numbers,
32:45
Speaker 4: and let's go, like, let's go play now, so I
32:48
Speaker 4: can see. I got to extra you to develop you.
32:50
Speaker 4: If I'm a if i'm a if I'm a JV
32:52
Speaker 4: player and i'm i'm I'm a ninth grader and i'm
32:57
Speaker 4: a i'm a I'm a starter on the JV. Okay,
33:02
Speaker 4: and so are starting five are all ninth graders, right, Okay?
33:09
Speaker 4: All of a sudden, now you want to bring you
33:10
Speaker 4: want to bring some eighth graders to cut into, to
33:13
Speaker 4: cut into to us, and to me, I'm like, no,
33:17
Speaker 4: it's about competition. I mean, come on, but what about
33:20
Speaker 4: the you know me, you know, you know, I'm all
33:23
Speaker 4: about the competition, But you got to you got to
33:26
Speaker 4: come through.
33:26
Speaker 2: You got to come through the system.
33:31
Speaker 6: I was just going to say the logistics of it,
33:32
Speaker 6: because not all your middle schools are absolutely next door
33:35
Speaker 6: to the high school. So you know, if they've got
33:37
Speaker 6: to after school practice, somebody's got to find a way
33:40
Speaker 6: to get the player there to the high school. And
33:42
Speaker 6: and like I said, they're not always close.
33:44
Speaker 2: That's fair.
33:45
Speaker 4: I can't argue that that's it's always It's good with you.
33:49
Speaker 2: He refuses to go with me on anything.
33:54
Speaker 4: But I'm saying, when we say competition, you can't come on, bro,
33:57
Speaker 4: you can't say that it's competition all the way around this.
34:00
Speaker 2: I just don't. I don't think that.
34:02
Speaker 4: I don't think that there's a I don't think that
34:04
Speaker 4: there's a Again, I'll take the good I'll take the
34:08
Speaker 4: great player. That's the eighth grader. Okay, that's the that's the.
34:14
Speaker 2: Exception to the rule.
34:15
Speaker 4: Like he's he's gonna be better than some of the
34:17
Speaker 4: tenth graders and could maybe even go after.
34:20
Speaker 2: A twelfth grader. Okay, I can see.
34:24
Speaker 4: There being some value of him or her playing up.
34:29
Speaker 4: I can see some value. What I don't what I
34:33
Speaker 4: what I don't What I don't think is gonna be good?
34:38
Speaker 4: Is I think there's gonna be too many people who's
34:41
Speaker 4: gonna want to do that, who aren't good enough. Parents
34:45
Speaker 4: want him to go, Coaches think that they should go.
34:48
Speaker 4: I think so, I think.
34:49
Speaker 2: I think.
34:49
Speaker 4: I think that you're creating a window of opportunity that
34:56
Speaker 4: folks are gonna want to take because they think that
34:59
Speaker 4: their kids that and he and he or she may
35:01
Speaker 4: not really we have to be that because I mean,
35:03
Speaker 4: you got kids, and that I mean parents holding their
35:05
Speaker 4: kids back. Now what I'm saying, and maybe maybe just
35:08
Speaker 4: to clarified and we'll jump to something else. But like
35:10
Speaker 4: if you have a school like Charleston Catholic where everybody
35:13
Speaker 4: is going to the same school, so k or whatever,
35:16
Speaker 4: maybe sixth grade through high school, right and they're all
35:21
Speaker 4: in the same school to your point. So this would
35:22
Speaker 4: cut so so this would cut the logistical argument down.
35:26
Speaker 4: So if you had a school, like a community school
35:28
Speaker 4: is what they call, and you have an outstanding eighth
35:30
Speaker 4: grader who's already in the school with who's already going
35:32
Speaker 4: to school with high schoolers, why why shouldn't him or
35:36
Speaker 4: her be allowed to play at the high school level
35:38
Speaker 4: if you're ready to go, you know what I'm saying.
35:41
Speaker 6: And that kind of goes back to the private school
35:44
Speaker 6: situation because they're unique and and and like you said,
35:47
Speaker 6: they have that that on campus presences are there in
35:52
Speaker 6: the same community school.
35:53
Speaker 2: It's some public.
35:54
Speaker 6: School to some, but not all schools are close. You're right,
35:59
Speaker 6: so that that would be the problem with that, I
36:01
Speaker 6: think part of it anyway. I mean, I think it's
36:03
Speaker 6: a good concept, but I think there's a lot of
36:06
Speaker 6: wrinkles you would have to iron out for that time.
36:08
Speaker 4: And fortunately for me, like or unfortunately for me, my
36:12
Speaker 4: first thought goes to football, and my first thought is size, strength, speed,
36:18
Speaker 4: all of those kinds of things. Maybe that can work
36:21
Speaker 4: in basketball, maybe that can work in track, Maybe they're
36:23
Speaker 4: going to work, you know, in other sports. Football man,
36:26
Speaker 4: I just think that it's a it's a it's just
36:28
Speaker 4: a different it's just a different kind of an animal.
36:31
Speaker 4: And the and the issue with safety is critical there.
36:35
Speaker 4: And I don't think that I just don't think that
36:38
Speaker 4: you know that that's something that should be that should happen.
36:41
Speaker 4: So let me ask you just to switch it up
36:43
Speaker 4: real quick. We there was a comment made by the
36:48
Speaker 4: grammar I think it's the basketball or football coach, and
36:51
Speaker 4: basically what he said, in regards to transfer and different
36:53
Speaker 4: things of that nature, he said, if because we've seen
36:56
Speaker 4: like with the NCAA Championships, it wasn't really great because
37:00
Speaker 4: you didn't have any cinderellas, there's really not much to
37:03
Speaker 4: chew on there, right, So basically what he said, what
37:06
Speaker 4: he alluded to is that if a kid from a
37:08
Speaker 4: smaller school at the collegiate level transfers to a bigger school,
37:12
Speaker 4: then that bigger school should have to pay a buy
37:15
Speaker 4: out to the smaller school. What do you what do
37:17
Speaker 4: your thoughts on it? I like it, I mean I
37:21
Speaker 4: kind of Again, I don't like the whole money deal
37:24
Speaker 4: part of it anyway, But in this situation, if I'm
37:28
Speaker 4: at I'm at State, and I'm and somebody wants to
37:32
Speaker 4: take me at a larger level, they're going to have
37:35
Speaker 4: to pay state to let me, like out of your contract,
37:39
Speaker 4: out of my contract to go I would be okay
37:42
Speaker 4: with I think I could see myself being okay with that.
37:46
Speaker 6: I'm totally for it. I mean, I really feel like,
37:48
Speaker 6: you know, this is a contract. You've entered a legal
37:50
Speaker 6: contract with a school, and you know, whenever you decide
37:54
Speaker 6: to move on to green or pasture. I mean, we've
37:56
Speaker 6: had the wild wild West of transfer Port long enough.
37:59
Speaker 6: We need to set down a little bit. And you know,
38:02
Speaker 6: these contracts, you know, they should include provisions so that
38:05
Speaker 6: if you decide to go somewhere else, you have to
38:07
Speaker 6: you know, you have to pay up like any other
38:10
Speaker 6: other contract.
38:11
Speaker 4: And I think it's perganent because it's like I said,
38:13
Speaker 4: looking at the NC Double Championships, particularly on the men's side,
38:16
Speaker 4: the final four was.
38:17
Speaker 2: All number one, right, that never really happened.
38:21
Speaker 4: I don't think it was an upset the whole tournament now,
38:24
Speaker 4: I mean traditionally the women's just like one two one two,
38:27
Speaker 4: which again, even if you look at that game, it
38:29
Speaker 4: was a blowout. It was not a good game right now,
38:32
Speaker 4: and it's just like this this has just been the
38:34
Speaker 4: most almost lame duck, you know, march madness that I've
38:37
Speaker 4: seen in years.
38:38
Speaker 2: It was just not exciting at all. I think that
38:40
Speaker 2: you have to and we've got to get out of here.
38:42
Speaker 4: But I think that one of the things that you
38:44
Speaker 4: have to do, if money's involved, it has to be
38:48
Speaker 4: contract like you have to be contracted according to that.
38:52
Speaker 4: I mean, that's how it is in professional sports, because
38:54
Speaker 4: you're not amateur sports.
38:55
Speaker 2: If you're paying, so you know the school's paying exact exactly.
39:00
Speaker 4: So to me, there has to be some form of
39:02
Speaker 4: a contract of how much you make, when you can
39:04
Speaker 4: lose it, how you can lose it, if you can
39:06
Speaker 4: lose it, whatever, those all those things should be in there.
39:11
Speaker 2: You sign that you got to you're accountable.
39:14
Speaker 6: These small schools need a way to recoup their investments
39:17
Speaker 6: for sure. For sure, you know they've spent time, they've
39:19
Speaker 6: spent you know, not only the monetary part of it,
39:22
Speaker 6: but just the time developing these players. They do all
39:25
Speaker 6: the work and then the biggers come in and take them.
39:28
Speaker 6: So yeah, they need a way to control it.
39:30
Speaker 4: And it's almost like a former revenue Shane, which I
39:32
Speaker 4: like I said, I'm totally agreement because watching the NCAA tournament,
39:36
Speaker 4: particularly on.
39:36
Speaker 2: The men's side. You've seen all the players.
39:38
Speaker 4: Oh, he's from this small school, he's from that small school,
39:40
Speaker 4: and now they're going to contribute to the bigger schools
39:43
Speaker 4: and the small There's no gun Zaga, there's no VS News.
39:46
Speaker 2: It was literally the Loyotas of the world. It was
39:50
Speaker 2: just nothing this year.
39:52
Speaker 4: Well, ladies and gentlemen, we hope you enjoyed the show
39:54
Speaker 4: and we will be back again next week.
39:56
Speaker 3: Let's Talk with Carl Lee is probably presented by attorney
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Speaker 3: Friend Walker. Visit Frank Walker Law dot com. Share your thoughts,
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40:19
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40:21
Speaker 3: eight for Let's Talk with Carl Lee.
40:24
Speaker 1: If you fall, doesn't do for get back up for
40:26
Speaker 1: your feet. Anything will be a win, yup, even the feet.
40:29
Speaker 2: They say. Sugar band for you wise Vintary Sweet couldn't
40:32
Speaker 2: play with big kids. I had to sit in.
40:34
Speaker 1: The street and watch from a distance.
40:36
Speaker 2: But over time I grew.
40:38
Speaker 1: If I put in the work, in no time, I'm
40:40
Speaker 1: doing everything that I worked and prayed on Moka. If
40:43
Speaker 1: you ask me how did I do it, I'm gonna say.
40:45
Speaker 1: You gotta work, ry Shine, just mine, gotta show. Everybody
40:50
Speaker 1: is my time.
40:50
Speaker 6: He ain't here.
40:51
Speaker 1: You gotta work, cry shan love A mind who TALKA
40:55
Speaker 1: died this day line, don't talk.
40:56
Speaker 2: You gotta work. You gotta work. You gotta work. You
41:04
Speaker 2: gotta work. You gotta work, You gotta work.