Latest / PNW Haunts & Homicides / Kristil Krug: She Did Everything Right | Broomfield, Colorado

Transcript

Kristil Krug: She Did Everything Right | Broomfield, Colorado · PNW Haunts & Homicides

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Daniel said he had run an errand and believed he
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: had closed the garage door behind him. Nothing appeared to
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: have been taken initially, but when Christine came home, however,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: the couple noticed their spare key was missing from his toolbox.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: You I hate that.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: It proved to be a haunting oversight in the coming weeks.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: They immediately got their locks changed, right.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Right, Hi, Cassie, Hi, Caitlin, Hi, creepy people. Oh hello, Hello.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: This is PNW Hants and Homicides, where we chat about
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: true crime, the paranormal, and all things spooky in the
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Pacific Northwest the p and W if your nicety mm
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: hmmm mmmm. And we also do a little taro reading
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: at the end of every episode for a little bit
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: of deeper insight into our topic.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: I love that part, you know. I love that part,
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: to be honest with you all, it's my favorite part.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah. She really needs that palette cleanser at the end there.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and so to you after my episodes.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's true, it's true. I enjoy the tarro reading
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: for both genres, but I really need it at the
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: end of your episodes and vice versa. It makes sense,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: it does so I think we were talking right before
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: we started recording about a couple of patrons.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, hello, we have some of those. Yes, I'm getting
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: very into my deep voice right now. Okay, So we
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: have two Patreon members that we're not sure if we
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: shouted you out already, and if we did, then you
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: get it twice and now we're writing it down for sure,
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: so we know.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and twice twice is nice, you know, is actually
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: twice as nice.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: So, speaking of twice, Kelsey has been our patron for
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: two months at the Creepy People tier, actually a little
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: over two months. It might be about let's see, it'll
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: be about three months now.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Nearly thrice, yes, nearly thrice.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: And then we have Nachelle who's been our Patreon for
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: almost a month. So happy month of verse three.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Love that for you, Exciting for you, exciting for us.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: We also have a ton of free people signing up
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: all the time. It's free people.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I've noticed that they're following and then sometimes
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: then they are actually signing up because they are the
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: first ones to get all kinds of like prompts about
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: whatever deals or special things are going on with Patreon,
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: so you can always follow us even if you don't
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: want to pay it.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: Oh see true? What's up? What's up?
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah? And if we, for the love of God, can
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: get the landscapers to stay away from my window for
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: more than sixty seconds at a time, today, we may
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: actually be recording a Patreon bonus today that I am
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: so excited about.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: Ooh oh, it's exciting, Okay, it is.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: It's basically the length of like a full regular Feed episode,
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: and I've been I've been working on it on and
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: off for months. It's kind of something a little bit different,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: and I think it's gonna make Cassie so so upset.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: But nobody, nobody officially dies. That's all I can say.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: I've already said too much.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: In fact, oh you have, yeah, eaven all the way.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: No point in doing it now.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: All you think you're gonna keep me off this topic.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't dream of it never.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: All Right, Well, should we do this topic, the one
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: that I have in front of me right now? I
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: guess maybe for all the normies, Yeah, normies. I like it.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: Christille Grims rud Krug and I don't know if I'm
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: saying her maiden name correctly. It's spelled g r Ims
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: r u D, so it could be Grimsrud or Grimsrud.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: That's not the name she went by anymore because it
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: was her maiden name. But she was born November twenty fourth,
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty and Boulder, Colorado, to Lars and Linda. Oh
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Laura and uh we love alliteration. She grew up in
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: its bedroom community, Westminster, about twenty five minutes away, which
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: makes it sound fancy. I want her, Yeah, I feel
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: like she should have a very posh accent.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, i'd be drinking tea, yes.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: With a pinky, you know, as one does. Actually, I
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: don't think British people do that.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: I mean as stereotypes.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's like a thing that we've cooked
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: up from across the pond, don't I'm not sure. Anyways,
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: I could not be more off topic. That's where she
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: would attend Stanley Lake High School, graduating as the valedictorian
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: for the class of nineteen ninety nine. Ooh, I know.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: I was like, can you imagine like you're on top
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: of the world. Bitch, Yeah, you are the valedictorian at
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: the turn of the millennium.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: Dude, whoa you know? I had that song randomly second
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: my head like three days ago. Really, Yeah, it was
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: very weird. I don't know why.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, don't you now though?
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: Maybe you were infiltrating my sick brain from afar lepathy. Weird.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: She was an intuitive, curious, and compassionate person. Intuitive.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: Ooh, maybe she's infiltrating, right, I mean, could be, could be?
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: I like it clearly possessing the mind of an engineer,
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: but she was also gifted in the arts. I just
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: feel like that's such an unusual or maybe uncommon is
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: the right word combination.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe I don't really know what engineers do. To
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: be honest with you.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: It's there, it's stem, it's a lot of mass, exactly.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: It's something like that that I don't exactly know what
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: it does or how it works or why people you're
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: so smart. Yeah.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Christilee was a competitive dancer from a young age, performing
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: ballet and modern dance at the Arveda Center for the
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: Arts and Humanities, a passion she carried well into adulthood.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Later in life, she made local news in twenty twelve
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: as part of Ballet Nouveau Colorado's adult showcase.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: Ooh, that sounds fancy, doesn't it, though, I'm want to
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: go to the ballet.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Her parents divorced when she was five, and she and
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: her brother, Lars Junior grew up in a blended family
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: after their father remarried in nineteen ninety seven, gaining a
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: stepbrother and stepsister. The extended family remained close, within about
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: fifteen minutes of each other, and gathering frequently for birthdays
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: and holidays, often at Lars Senior's home in Lafayette.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: Oh, I know, the sweet family life. Yeah.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: Christille received an academic scholarship to the Colorado School of
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: Minds to study chemical engineering. So whoa she like roll smart? Yeah,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: that's like maths and science. I think, like, we think
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: we're not just hat racks compared to her. I know
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: we might be. Yeah, I might be the physical human
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: embodiment of a hat rack. In comparison, it's hard to say.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just like, let me hold your hat because you're
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: so smart.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: Yah. Yeah, I will just stand here holding your hat.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Yes, thank you for your service,
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: no tip required. Yes. While working part time at j. C.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: Penny during that period, she met a coworker named Anthony Holland,
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: and the two began a relationship. Anthony was a high
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: school dropout who took her to a rave. On one
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: of their first dates, she encouraged him to get his GED. Wow. Yeah,
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: I feel like just very different speed. It feels like
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: did she talk to him about the GED at the rave.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: I like to think that was probably like a separate conversation,
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: like you know, a different SA.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: She's like, boy, you get your d.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: That relationship ended around two thousand, when Christille became more
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: deeply engaged in her studies and the two grew part.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: She transferred to the University of Colorado Boulder and event
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: completed her degree in biochemical engineering. Her father, Lars Senior,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: a retired aerospace engineer who emigrated from Norway in nineteen
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: seventy four, is well known in vintage car circles. The
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: New York Times profiled him in two thousand and six
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: as a renowned Corvette carburetor specialist. Oh oh, just such
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: a unique and interesting background.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: He and Christiele worked on cars together in his garage.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: When she was young. She could take a bicycle completely
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: apart and put it back together, according to.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Him, engineer.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, an engineer's mind, right.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: That's cool. That's so sweet. I love a father daughter moment.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: I know, and I think it's very cool. Obviously, like
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: that was you know, somewhat his background as well. I
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: love you know, a parent that really encourages the child
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: that has an interest, whether it's you know, something like that,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: you know, engineering, or you know, if your kid is
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: really into cooking, Like, yeah, present in so many different ways.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: And I feel like sometimes, you know, parents get so
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: excited or so stuck on the idea of what they
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: want their kids to be. And thankfully that was a
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: really easy way for them to bond. But I just
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I just think it was really cool.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: That's sweet. Also, can you imagine having a kid that
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: love cooking? It would be like, great, go.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: For it, cooky stick.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, every meal?
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah absolutely. I know this is from like two kidless people, right,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: I know, but if you could guarantee me that the
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: kid would just be like a real whiz in the kitchen,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: that might be a discussion worth having.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you can't. You got them do what they want.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Exacts, their passions are yep, and I realized that.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: So, you know.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Christilee's cousin, Rebecca Ivanoff, describes a woman who burst into
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: rooms laden with bags and stories and says there was
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: always so much laughter around her. Christilee met Daniel Bartholomew
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: Krug online after transferring to See You Boulder. He was
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: one month older than Christile, the youngest of five siblings,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: an Eagle scout and a graduate of a Catholic high
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: school in Lakewood. He had attended the Catholic University of
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: America in Washington, d C. A real man of God,
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: it sounds apparently, which is fine.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: You do you?
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: They began a long distance relationship before Daniel moved back
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: to Colorado. Christille's parents found him somewhat arrogant. Her father
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: describes him as as a cross between a car salesman
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: and a politician.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: Ew you could say about anybody.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: I know, isn't it's not. Yeah, it's not necessarily a great.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: Apologies to all the car salesmen and politicians out there
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: who are actually maybe good people. But right, you have
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: a stereotype. I feel like based on the stereotypes. Combining
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: those two, yeah.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: Like I get an impression, and I wouldn't say it's
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: overtly positive.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: But their daughter was drawn to his intelligence and to
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: the closeness he engineered in the relationship.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: Oh so he was the engineer of their.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Relationship, engineering the engineer.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: Ooh ooh, that's a good book title.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: Actually, I'm going to write that down.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: Write the book, Write the book. Yeah, what's the lady
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: who writes a true crime books? Uh?
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: A rule?
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: It sounds like an Ann rule book.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean and dearly departed. She won't be writing it.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: No, so Caitlyn will.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: It's a bit of an opening for wah.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: Caitlyn rule.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Kitlyn rules, Kitlyn Yeah, oh right, No, that's her
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: last name. Okay, sorry, I thought we thought. I thought
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: we were starting to chant bove. Everything had to be
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: done together, it felt like, according to Linda, her mother.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: The couple married in two thousand and seven at Holy
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Ghost Catholic Church in downtown Denver.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: Can we wait, you said everything had to be done
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: together and then you like moved on really quickly. Is
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: that what you said?
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, that was just the mom's impression of kind
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: of their relationship. Okay, so like kind of coda pend Yeah,
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: I would that.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: I don't know that anybody used that word specifically, but
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: that's definitely the vibe.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's just what comes to mind.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the takeaway for me.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: I felt like, but not saying it was. It was
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: just that I'm trying to understand the mother's perspective on it,
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: that's all. Yeah.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: Broomfield, Colorado is at mid size subourbon city, roughly equidistant
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: between Denver and Boulder, So it's like right in the
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: middle of like kind of the two cities that everybody
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: knows in Colorado.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: I was just gonna say, the only two places I
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: know in Colorado.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: Yep, exactly. They're in the Anthem neighborhood. The Crews would
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: settle into a large and comfortable four bedroom family home.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: They lived in a master plan development of winding cul
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: de sacs and ha maintained streetscapes in Broomfields Northwest. The
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: quiet community has great schools, making it a perfect fit
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: for young, happy families like the Kruz. Daniel Krug commuted
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: east of the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: in Glendale. Christilee worked as a project manager for Adulent Technologies,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: a pharmaceutical and biotech company in the area, a position
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: she held for nearly two decades. Wow, pretty well established.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, she was in it.
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: In it.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: Alongside their successful professional lives, the couple had three children
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: and their oldest shared Christilee's love of dance. Oh, I
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: just love that. Like she had that connection with like
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: working on cars and like you know, the engineering of
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: it all with her dad, and then she had that
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: special bond with you know, one of her children regarding
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: you know, dance.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: It's so sweet.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah. By the early twenty twenties, tension had entered their marriage. No,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: it was sounding so perfect, I know, well perfect until
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: it ain't.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: That's where the picture of them goes to negative in
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: the right in the documentary.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: They tint it like dark.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah in that shot.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Loved Ones began noticing strain between Christille and Daniel.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: By late twenty twenty three. The couple were apparently sleeping
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: in separate bedrooms and their marriage was struggling. That fall,
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: In September of twenty twenty three, Daniel reported a suspicious
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: person to Broomfield Police. He told officers he had spotted
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: an intruder near their garage as he was pulling in
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: a man in blue jeans and a gray shirt. Patrol
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: officers responded, but were unable to locate anyone matching the description,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: which figures because I would hardly say it was detailed
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: it's literally just a white man in jeans.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: In a costco outfit.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like exactly. Daniel said he had run an errand
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: and believed he had closed the garage door behind him.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: Nothing appeared to have been taken initially, but when Christine
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: came home, however, the couple noticed their spare key was
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: missing from his toolbox.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: Ew I hate that.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: It proved to be a haunting oversight in the coming weeks.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: They immediately got their locks changed, right right.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: That's not what I have next in my script.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Oh my god.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: It was roughly a month later that Christilee made another
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: call to law enforcement regarding an unsettling message that she
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: had received. It arrived on October tewod twenty twenty three
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: and read hope it's okay. I looked you up. I
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: go to Boulder every few weeks and thought we could
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: hook up you game. Christille believed the messages were coming
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: from Anthony Holland, the ex boyfriend she had dated for
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: a brief period around nineteen ninety nine to two thousand,
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: though the two had not spoken in years. The rave guy, Yeah,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: rave guy exactly. The following day, she received an additional
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: message from the same unknown number though the nature of
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: the message had escalated from unsettling to threatening. There was
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: commentary about Christille's body, and it also told her that
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: she should kill herself. Well what why.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: She wanted dater and then you lose right talk about
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: her body and then you want her dead.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, feels like kind of some in cell behavior, right,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: it feels.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Like I can't murdery shit that I don't know, I
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: just don't like it. Also that, yeah, I don't like
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: where this is headed catline.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: Frankly, I yeah, no, I'm not a fan.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Also, I know you guys can't see my face, but
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: it's been just horrified this entire time she's been saying
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: this part.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: So it really has been yeah, so creepy.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: And I keep waiting for you to say, like there
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: was a message written on her foggy bathroom mirror or something.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Oh no, like.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: That's what it feels like.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it does feel like something out of
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: a horror movie. The messages continue to escalate rapidly in
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: both frequency and menace. They included graphic sexual language, threats
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: against Christie, threats against Daniel, and ominous references to her
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: daily routine, details that only someone close to her someone
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: closely observing her could have known Picky, very Icky not
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: a fan of a stalker.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: No.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: One message implied the sender would get rid of her
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: husband so that they could be together, though it did
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: not apparently mention him by name, so it didn't specifically
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: say I will kill Daniel. It was more like, I'm
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: going to get rid of your husband in so many words.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Another she received from a Holland kicks at gmail dot
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: com contained a recent photo of her husband, taken surreptitiously
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: while he was at work.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: Ooh, ooh, ooh, this is so like stalker. It's not good.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, your assessment is correct. There was comment about his
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: slow driving, implying the individual might regularly be surveilling her husband.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: Just following him around town.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: He reportedly wasn't the only one. She also received a
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: text from the stalker indicating they'd just seen her at
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: the dentist's office.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: I can't imagine. And then you're like thinking about all
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: the faces you like saw around that day, and you're.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Like, who was that, right? Who was it exactly? Christille
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: did not minimize the threat quickly, responding the way one
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: would expect someone trained to solve problems would. She was
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: methodical and thorough from the very beginning. In October twenty
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: twenty three, she first contacted the Broomfield Police Department. She
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: maintained a detailed written stalker log documenting every incident and
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: provide it to law enforcement. The Krugs had security cameras
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: installed throughout their home at her father's suggestion. She sought
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: advice from his police chief friend, who told her to
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: upgrade the firearm at her disposal. Lars had previously given
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: her a gun, and he said, yeah, that's this is
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: an actual quote. He said, that gun is way too small.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: You'll have to shoot him way too many times. You
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: need a larger gun because if you need to use it,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: you need to put him down.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: Geez, I mean, like not wrong, you don't. Yeah, even
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: if it's they kind of know specifically who this is,
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: or do they they don't actually know?
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, But just like any.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Attacker, you want to put them down, right. You don't
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: want to right popping back up like a murderer in
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: a horror movie.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: Hey, listen, if we've learned anything, it's double tap from zombie.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: Land, you know, yeah, exactly.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: And having the right weapon maybe just makes that a
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: little bit easier.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: You know, I don't think that's legal though, right, If
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: it's self defense, you probably can't double tap them.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess unless they tried to get back back. Yeah, yeah, listen,
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: these are yeah, we're not giving you advice just for
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: legal and moral reasons. This is yeah, all hypothetical. Only
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: double tap a zombie, right, Yeah. She bought a nine
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: millimeter six hour with an optical laser sighting system, the
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: same model the chief carried, which is probably what I
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: would do. I'd be like, you know what, good enough
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: for the chief, it's probably good enough for me. Hopefully, Uh,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: I can handle that bad boy. I actually have fired
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: a nine millimeter six hour, and I decidedly need a
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: lot more practice to handle it.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a lot. It's big, it's a big bullet. Yeah.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was not prepared because the only other time
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: that I've held a gun it was like a rifle,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: and the kickback is real intense with a small handgun,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, versus like a rifle or a shotgun. Speaking
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: of preparation, though, practice and such, she took shooting classes,
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: obtained a concealed carry permit, and carried the sick in
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: a concealed carry purse specifically designed for the weapon.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: Wow, so she was like serious about it. Yes, well,
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: I mean it's a serious situation.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: It is, yeah, I mean, but she's like, as the
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: threat is escalator, she's taking it equally seriously, Like she
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: is matching what she's being presented with with I feel like,
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean, it's sad to say, you know,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: and obviously people have different feelings about guns, but you know,
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: she's matching it with equal energy. I would say she
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: even ran home defense drills with her husband and children.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, the kids. Yeah, I forgot about them. Yeah,
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: that makes us so much worse. I mean it was
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: bad already, but.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was never going to be good, is unfortunately
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: the truth of the matter.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: But but those poor kids like had to know what
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: was going on and run home defense drills like it's.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Good to do, but no, it's really important. I mean,
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: I would argue, like, you know, there has to be
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: a level of you know, preparedness with you know, children
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: in the home. But this is such a unique situation
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: obviously because it's like possible. Yeah, very much. Christilee included
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: details of her relationship with Anthony in her log Dating
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: back to nineteen ninety nine, when they first met around
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: the time she graduated from high school. Though they had
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: split during her sophomore year of college, he had contacted
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: her occasionally over the years, though she confirmed there had
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: never been any hostility or threats in their previous communications.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: He compared their romance to the notebook.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know why that grosses me out because
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: she didn't like end up together.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think probably that's why it's like, maybe don't. Yeah, Still,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: he was initially the only suspect that she could think
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: of think about that, though, this is a person who, like,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: this is decades later and she's like, I just don't
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: really like have enemies. I can't think of who this
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: might be. And then also, I think it's fair to
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: point out too that you know that email that I
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: mentioned a Holland kicks Anthony Holland like hello, feels pretty
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: on the nose, right or the Stockers just real deep yeah,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: which I mean possible, right. I don't know which is worse,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: I exactly exactly. Christile's cousin, Becky Ivanoff, is a former
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: Oregon state prosecutor who had worked extensively on domestic violence
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: and stocking cases and offered to help. Also tapped for
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: their professional expertise was Jenna Christiele's lawyer's sister, whom she
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: asked to help her pursue a restraining order. She even
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: hired a PI to track down Anthony's last known address
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: because at this point, very much they're like, this is Anthony, Like,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: we just don't know who else it could be. And
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: I get why you might think that.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, get the PI on the case.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And if and if it's not him, then
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: it's like, like you said, it's like, oh my god,
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: that's so scary because this person obviously has dug in
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: cheerial life that deep Yeah, deep deep, she thayk. In
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: early November, Christilee sat down with Detective Martinez. Less than
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: a week later, he applied for search warrants that would
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: be sent to Verizon, text Now, and Google. Getting the
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: warrants took several days. Just days prior to the Thanksgiving holiday,
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: the warrants were sent out, Detective Martinez knew that getting
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: results back from these companies would take far longer. It's
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: not unusual for that process to take weeks, if not
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: even months.
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I could see why but like, ah, they might
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: caigure it out, hurry up. No, I can't see why.
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: I find that completely unacceptable.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Right, don't they just like have to look it up
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: and then send over the Like what did they have
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: to do? Like they have to here's the same we
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: get the records together, Like, I don't know.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: If authorities show up to my house with a search warrant,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: I don't get to comply within weeks or months. Yeah,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: not exactly apples to apples, granted, but fuck that bullshit.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess I was thinking of like how much
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: time it takes to like process evidence, but like you're
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: not giving people records every single day, like you don't
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: have a backlog of records. You're trying to get to
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: the police, right.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: So I would say not, And I think that, you know,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: there are certainly instances where it's like maybe we prioritize
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: the requests where there's a potential for like violence, this
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: is like a threatening situation. Yeah, I don't know, call
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: me crazy. Oh gosh, seriously, call me crazy. I fucking
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: dare you, dude. As stressful as the situation was and
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: anxious as Cristille and her family were at the time,
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: life keeps on moving. There was a lot in motion
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: as the upcoming holidays approached. Thanksgiving was tense for the family.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Police were stationed outside their home keeping watch they had
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: someone actually tailing her for a period of time, just
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: in general, out in the world.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be kind of nice.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I mean scary and awful that you
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: have to get to that point, but yeah, hopefully that
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: would at least give you, like some sort of sense
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: of security. Christilee seated herself at the dinner so that
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: she had a clear view of the front door. Can
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: you imagine.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: I hate that?
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: Uh yeah. Her oldest daughter was performing in the Nutcracker.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: Because of the stalker, the artistic director at the facility
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: asked her to avoid volunteering or even attending.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: Oh no, and that would be something that she would
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: love to see.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: Yep, exactly then, just shy of. A month after his
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: sit down with Christille, Detective Martinez issued a revised warrant
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: to Google due to a typo in the previous paperwork.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: Come on, these things happen. These things happen. It's upsetting though,
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: because I feel like they should have already gotten the
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: response back from Google, Like with records and stuff. I
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: didn't pull it that thread too much. I don't know
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: what like the nature of the typo was. If it
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: was such that like they literally couldn't you know, acknowledge
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: or honor the warrant based on this typo. I can't
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: imagine that that was the case. But I don't know they.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: Spelled the thh can't do it?
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: Skanda. December fourteenth, twenty twenty three. Christille's routine that morning
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: began as it typically did. She drove two of the
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: couple's children to school. Christille texted Dan, who was already
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: on the road, shortly before nine am, asking him to
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: pick up their daughter after school as she had a
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: meeting with Detective Martinez. He responded twenty minutes later, stating
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: that he would, and also letting her know he'd forgotten
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: his lunch. Okay, and this has nothing to do with
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: the case. But I don't ever get those texts because
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: Chris never realizes. I just find it. I've given up
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: on trying to pack him a lunch.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: It's he's such a funny like couple texts though, Oh yeah,
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: I'll grabbed the kids and I forgot my lunch. Oops.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's probably can you put that back on the fridge.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, don't eat it though excectly fine exactly.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: She did not respond to his message, so he called her.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: For the next three hours, he continued to call her
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: and did not reach her or get a response. Around noon,
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: after sending a series of unanswered texts and calls to Christilee,
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: Daniel called the Broomfield Police non emergency line. In the
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: recorded call, he said, I don't think this is an emergency,
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: but this feels really weird. My wife isn't responding to
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: text messages or phone calls. He asked the police to
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: perform a welfare check. He followed up that call with
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: another to Christille's mother, asking her to check on his
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: wife as well.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: I'm getting stressed.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: When officers arrived at Promontory Loop, they found a woman
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: badly wounded and seemingly unconscious in the garage. It appeared
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: that her attacker had been waiting for her when she
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: returned to the house and entered the garage. Her purse
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: and concealed handgun lay just inches away.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: A fuck.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: She had blunt force trauma to the head and a
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: stab wound to the heart. As Officer John O'Hare opened
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: the garage door for ems. That's when Linda arrived at
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: her daughter's home. Oh, she witnessed the officer performing CPR,
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: cautioning her not to enter the garage.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: You can't tell that to mother.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Despite every effort she and those that loved her had made,
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: at forty three, Christille was dead. Her death allowed room
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Field Police to elevate warrants in the case, given the
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: potential danger posed to not only those closest to Christilee,
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: but perhaps even the broader community. Neither the blunt object
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: or knife were recovered at the scene, so investigative efforts
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: were focused elsewhere. Detectives then reached out to Google, text Now,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: and Verizon Again. They also went looking for Anthony. A
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: nationwide alert was put out and received ahead, though surprisingly
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: it wasn't on any roads leading out of Colorado, rather
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: in north central Utah.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: Oh, how do you get there?
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: Interesting?
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: They checked his potential addresses, including a friend's home in
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: Eagle Mountain, just forty miles south from Salt Lake City.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: They were prepared to serve a warrant for stalking. Officers
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: were mystified when Anthony was actually the one to answer
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: the door. They wondered if he had killed Christilee earlier
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: that day, how could he possibly be back in this
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: part of Utah Already. Anthony had no idea what crime
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: he was being asked about, but said, at the time,
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: I honestly thought I was going to jail for something.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: The officer spoke with him inside the home, going over
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: his relationship with Christilee and his whereabouts that day. So
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: it's important to know. He answers the door. He can
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: tell this is very serious and it has a very ominous,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: you know, vibe already, and he just lets police in,
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: like they don't explain it all. They just ask if
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: they can talk to him, and he's like, come on in, sure.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: So he's very cooperative seemingly.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: Wow, that would be crazy too if you really just
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: had no idea what was going on and police came
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: to your door and we're like, did you murder someone?
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: And you really for sure? I've just been here in
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: my underwear?
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: What do you yeah? Exactly.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: He had no knowledge of the impersonation campaign, had not
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: contacted Christilee and was not stalking anyone. They did not
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: tell him she had been murdered that morning, so they
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: talked to him about Christille. They get you know, the
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: details of the relationship from his perspective, and they talk
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: about his whereabouts and all of that, but they're not
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: really giving him any information about like why they're there.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: That's probably good from.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: An investigative perspective, probably a strong.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: Strategy if they slip and say, right, I didn't kill her,
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: and they'll be like, right, we never said she ever
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: say right? Brad just answered her question.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Hm. As it would turn out, Anthony had an
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: airtight alibi. At twelve sixteen PM that day. He had
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: purchased a sweatshirt at a local department store, a timestamp
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: to proceed, making it physically impossible for him to have
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: traveled to and from Colorado, so he was immediately cleared. Wow.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: He also provided employment records confirming he had been in
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: Utah throughout the period the stocking was taking place. So
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: what happened to.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: The private investigator that was supposed to find him?
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: Right? Yeah, Well, I mean whether it was specifically the
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: private investigator or the cops that were responsible for locating him, right,
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: I guess college. I'm just saying the yeah for sure. No,
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: I mean it's a period of like actually, I mean,
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: it would feel like an absolute eternity if you were
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: personally experiencing this. But remember, like this started in September.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: She was killed December fourteenth, So I mean, you know,
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: like whether it's a private investigator or you know, the cops,
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: it's gonna take time for them to investigate and like
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: make determinations about a lot of this stuff.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: We didn't have time.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: We didn't have time. Colorado authorities were left without any
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: basis to arrest him and informed local police they would
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: not be extraditing him on the warrant. Ultimately, they had
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: no proof he was either her stalker or murderer. He
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: didn't have access to a private jet, and commercial flight
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: manifests had been checked. So they're like, even if he
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: tried to like hop on a flight, like we checked for.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: That, I would hope.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: So, which is smart. Yeah, Well, I mean it's close
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: enough that you would assume he would have driven, because
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: that couldn't be tracked or traced in the same way
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: that like a commercial flight could.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he had.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: Been approximately five hundred miles away at the time of
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: the crime, and that was the efficiently verifiable. He has
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: said publicly that he believes Christille's spirit guided him to
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: buy that sweatshirt that day, and that his late mother
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: played a role as well. Oh, he still owns it.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: Whoa to him, it is not just a piece of clothing,
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: but a symbol of justice for a woman he once loved,
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: which gave me the chili woollies.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: Okay, forgive you for the noepook comment.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: I know, I know, I think, I think he's absolutely
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: a character in this case that you know, there's very
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: much an opening for some redemption. So the stalker did
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: go deep, like oh my god, mm hmm. Now, for investigators,
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: the question was if Christille's ex, Anthony Holland, wasn't responsible
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: for the threatening messages nor her death.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: Who was.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: Digital forensic examiner Randy Pillock of the Broomfield Police Department
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: began examining the threatening messages a handful of hours after
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: the murder was reported. Previously, Christile and law enforcement had
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: waited weeks to get digital records that would show the
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: source of the stalking messages. Once the case became a homicide,
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: the authorities had them within an hour. Oh, of course,
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: pretty typical. All you have to do is die and
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: then they'll take it seriously. We'll get right on it.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: They quickly made a critical discovery, two email and text
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: accounts used to harass Christile had been sending messages from
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: the same IP address. That address belonged to the Colorado
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: Department of Public Health and Environment, her husband Daniel's workplace.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: No oh no, no, mm hmm. Oh my god, he
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: tried to frame her.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: X mm hmm. What a dick. I know the depths
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: of depravity and just like underhandedness, you're not prepared, but
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: do what you can. You know, psych yourself up. Gerda
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: Loin's becuz I'm plowing through.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, okay.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: The investigation then moved rapidly. The digital forensic team established
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: that the Burner phones used in the harassment had been
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: purchased with a Visa gift card registered to Daniel's name,
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: and that those phones had appeared in the same locations
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: as Daniel's personal phone on multiple occasions. Confirmed through cell
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: tower data, the photograph of Daniel walking into his office
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: sent to Christilee as a threatening message from the supposed stocker,
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: had been taken in selfie mode using a timer on
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: Daniel's own phone.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, what a what a little sneaky snake.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: Google searches on his devices the night before the murder,
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: included what happens when you're knocked unconscious? Do people really
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: go unconscious when hitting the head? How hard for head
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: trauma to go unconscious? And oh my god, how much
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: head trauma do you need to cause to knock someone unconscious?
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: Those are very disturbing searches.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: They really are, They really are. And my dude, hello,
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: do you not think.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: That like he knew that they were looking for records,
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: Like he knew what was going on in the investigation,
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: so he knew records were possible. He didn't think about
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: his own trailers.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: All smart and they would never look at him work,
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: And you don't think that when they realized that the
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: stalker is using the internet connection at your work, that
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: they're gonna perhaps have some follow up questions for.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: You, sir, password protected wi Fi.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: My dude, right, it's a fucking government agency.
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not a Starbucks. You can't just roll in
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: and use the Wi Fi.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: God. Before leaving for work on that December morning, Daniel
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: had pre programmed text messages on Christille's phone to be
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: sent later that morning. One went to her father Lars,
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: one to Detective Martinez, and one to Daniel himself, of course,
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: The messages were designed to create the illusion that Christille
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: was still alive. After he had left the house, he
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: covered the Holme's doorbell camera with blue masking tape taken
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: from a kitchen drawer. Surveillance footage captured Daniel leaving the
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: house at eight twenty four am, approximately thirty minutes later
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: than his usual departure time. Daniel also used her phone
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: to disable the home security system. He deactivated his car's
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: dash cam shortly before stopping for coffee on his way
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: to work. At eight point fifty six am, while still
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: in transit, he received the pre scheduled text from Christilee's phone,
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: the messages he had programmed before he left the house.
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: Digital forensics later confirmed her phone had not been used
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: after eight twenty two am. So they know that those
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: were pre scheduled messages.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: You think you're so slick.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: He arrived at the Colorado Department of Public Health and
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: Environment in Glendale at nine twenty seven am on December sixteenth,
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, two days after Christille's death, Daniel Krug
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: was arrested and charged with first degree murder, two counts
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: of stocking, and one count of criminal impersonation. I feel
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: like that's got to be a fucking record. Like, my dude,
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: you had the so to speak, home field advantage, and
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: we figured you out so quickly. Now, admittedly they were
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: already engaged in Christille because of the stocking, right, but
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: wow wow. In his police interview, he acknowledged the marriage
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: had been deteriorating, that they were sleeping in separate bedrooms.
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: So I kill her.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: I must hit her on head a club. He claimed
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: he had asked for a divorce. When confronted with the evidence,
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: he told detectives, I get the narrative you're putting together,
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: but it alleges that I would do this to my children.
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: But soon, like it or not, the truth in horrifying
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: detail would become a matter of public record a trial.
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: And I just love that he tried to pull at
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: that at that thread, that heart string. But it alleges
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: that I would do that to my children, Well, you
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: fucking did. Opening statements in Daniel Krug's trial began April fourth,
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. Senior Deputy District Attorney Kate Armstrong told
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: jurors Christile had been putting the pieces together about her
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: husband in the weeks before her death, and that he
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: had been running out of time. She argued he waited
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: for Christille to return from the school drop off and
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: ambushed her in the garage. The prosecution argued at trial
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: that the stocking campaign was not a random scheme, but
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: a calculated attempt by Daniel to win Christille back, to
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: position himself as her protector against a threat that he
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: had manufactured.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: I was just thinking, like, what is the purpose of
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: any of that? Like why are you doing that? But
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: that makes I mean, doesn't make sense. Yeah, but it,
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: I mean in his I can see how he thinks
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: that that makes sense. It makes the closest thing to sense.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: When that failed to reverse the collapse of their marriage,
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: and when Christille began to suspect the truth, investigators believe
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: Daniel concluded he had to silence her before she could
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: act on those suspicions or file for divorce. So the
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: thing that's really upsetting about that, But there's so many
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: things upsetting about that. But did you not think that
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: actually having this incredibly stressful situation that might actually put
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: increased stress on your marriage? Like you thought this was
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: gonna bring you closer together.
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: I could be the hero I could be the hero
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: hero baby Jesus Christ. Like, Oh, to be a mediocre
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: white man and just center myself in every single storyline,
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: regardless of whether or not I'm actually the main character.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna put myself on a white horse and get
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: me a sword, and it's gonna be great, guys.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: Jesus fucking Christ. Well, it's pretty clear that Christille understood
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: that this was at a real impasse. At one point,
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: she told her father, referring to the stalker, someone's going
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: to die. It's either me or him. Either I'm going
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: to have to kill him or he's going to kill me.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: No one should have to die. Oh God, it's crazy.
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: She had to like have that thought in her head.
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine your daughter, who has given you three beautiful,
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: incredible grandchildren, coming to you and saying, you know what,
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: either I'm going to die or this person is And
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: just how prophetic that that specific statement was.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: Defense attorney Joe Morales emphasized the lack of physical evidence
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: directly linking Daniel to the attack. No DNA, no blood
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: found on his clothing or in his car, which his
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: daughter confirmed were the same clothes he was wearing when
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: he drove her to the bus stop that morning. They
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: also pointed to partial DNA from an unknown country found
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: on Christille's neck, an unknown DNA recovered from the blue
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: masking tape used to cover the doorbell camera. That source
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: has never been publicly identified. For either, the prosecution argued
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: the totality of the digital evidence was conclusive. I think so, yeah, yeah,
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: number one, yes agree. Also, I would say that the
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: fact that there's partial DNA from an unknown contributor found
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: on Christille's neck, like that could have been one of
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: their children, That could have been anybody that had physical
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: Like we've just talked about the trans DNA, right, that's
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: what I was thinking of. And also masking tape that
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: you used to cover the doorbell camera. Do you it's
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: in their family home. Do you not think anybody else
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: has touched it? Like and even people outside the family.
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: It's fuckinge, it's sticky.
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: And it's a doorbell, Like how many people are touching
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: that doorbell? Ringing your bell?
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: Exactly? Like Nah, I'm gonna say I wouldn't hang my
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: hat on that. Now, that's what they had to work with.
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: It would suck to be his defense attorney. I'll just
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: say that the trial ran through multiple weeks and centered
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: almost entirely on digital forensic evidence. Randy Pillock's testimony was
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: central to the prosecution, walking jurors through the IP address trace,
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: the burner phone records, the cell tower data, the scheduled texts,
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: and the selfie mode photograph. Armstrong highlighted the photograph in
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: her closing argument the moment the judge allowed cameras into
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: the courtroom.
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: Look at this dick.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. One of Daniel's former girlfriends was called to testify
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: about Daniel's alleged prior pattern of fake persona stalking ew
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: He's done it before. It was amongst some of the
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: most damaging testimony of the trial. She testified that after
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: their relationship ended, Daniel had allegedly stalked her in a
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: nearly identical fashion, creating multiple fake online personas to harass
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: her after their breakup. The pattern she described mirrored the
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: tactics use against Christial almost exactly, though Daniel was never
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: charged in connection with her allegations because he didn't get
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: to kill her, right, Yeah, pretty much.
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: So it probably wasn't looked into.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: Or you know, I don't know, yeah, depending on when
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: it took place. I feel like, you know, there are
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: limitations in terms of you know, technology, and yeah, you know,
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: and in terms of the law. That's a huge piece
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: of this is that the law essentially is like, I
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: don't know, man, like that's not really a crime. There's
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: you know, very specific thresholds for what can be considered stalking,
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: and you know the legality of like, okay, so then
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: how do we charge this person? Like that fucking sucks?
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: Another noteworthy aspect of the testimony at trial, Anthony would
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: take the stand to testify, clutching a fidget toy to
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: calm his anxiety and staring down the person that had
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: spent months trying to frame him.
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: You'd have a fidget that's so sweet.
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: Why, It's very endearing and relatable.
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's probably why.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah. His sister also testified, confirming that he had been
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: with her and her children during specific dates and times
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: that the stalking incidents occurred. On April seventeenth, twenty twenty five,
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: the jury convicted Daniel Krug of first degree murder, stalking,
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: and criminal impersonation. Judge Priscilla Lowe sentenced Daniel to life
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: in prison without the possibility of parole. The mandatory sentence
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: for first degree murder in Colorado, plus an additional consecutive
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: nine and a half years for the stalking and criminal
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: impersonation convictions. Huh, I'm like life without the possibility of
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: parole plus nine and a half years. So how does
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: that work? Do we just we go get the paddles
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: and bring him back.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: I just keep them alive. Oh my god, can you imagine?
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. District Attorney Brian Mason stated this was
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: a brutal, calculated murder preceded by months of manipulation, emotional abuse,
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: and deception. In planning and executing this horrific crime. Daniel
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: Krug terrorized his wife, his children, and an innocent man,
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: all in order to control and then murder a woman
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: who no longer wanted to be with him.
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, when you put it that way, it's just like sick,
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: it really is. And not sick in the good way,
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: sick in the very bad way.
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: Right. If I can't have you, no one else will.
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: I hate I just hate that so much.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: Christille's father, Lars, addressed the court, calling the crimes pure
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: selfish evil. He told to judge, obviously, there's never enough
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: justice for a life that has been so wrongfully and
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: horrifically taken. But the legal process and the support and
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: dedication of many people has now at least allowed some
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: relief in knowing that Dan Krue has been held accountable
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: for his actions in achieving some justice for Christilee. Rebecca Ivanov,
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: her cousin, spoke at sentencing the depths of depravity, the
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: manipulation he displayed in torturing Christille and her children, knew
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: no bounds, and the terror he inflicted on her and
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: her children is unimaginable. Christille and Daniel's three children, who
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: were eight, eleven, and fourteen at the time of Christille's death,
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: now ten, thirteen and sixteen. Some good news are in
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: the custody of Christille's brother, Lars Junior and his wife
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: in Boulder, with their extended and close knit family remaining
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: involved and very supportive in their lives. I just felt
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: like that was really important. I don't have a lot
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: more to expand on that, and I feel like the
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: less that we like share in terms of specifics about
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: the kids is like, for that's for the best.
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I like to know that they're like they're okay, okay, yeah.
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they're as okay as three kids that
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: lost their sportful of their parents. Yeah, could be. Yeah.
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: One of the most significant threads to emerge from this
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: case in the months following the conviction is the advocacy
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: work of Christille's cousin, Rebecca Ivanov. Remember she's the former Oregon.
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: Prosecutor, right okay.
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: She has argued publicly that Christille might still be alive
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: had communications companies responded faster to the search warrants that
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: ultimately identified Daniel as the stalker. The digital evidence that
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: exposed him, the IP address, the visa gift card registration
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: did not arrive for weeks after the warrants were filed,
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: weeks during which Christine was still alive, still filing police reports,
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: still trying to protect herself. It's worth examining in detail
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: the specific points at which investigators might have moved faster
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: and what systemic obstacles slowed them, because this honestly sounds
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: like a situation where they did everything that they could.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: They actually took this seriously, and they tried to do
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: everything right, and literally just the system hampered them in
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: a way that they just they couldn't help. No one could.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: I hate that it's so scary because like you have
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: the ability to help and yeah, yeah, like you just can't.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: But your hands are tied. She has called on state
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: and federal lawmakers to require companies to respond to stocking
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: related search warrants within forty eight hours. Emily Tofft Nestibal,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: executive director of a Colorado based legal services nonprofit that
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: assisted Christille's family, described the forty eight hour window as
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: more than reasonable, adding that her organization had encountered far
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: too many cases where faster responses could have or would
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: have been life saving, as we believe was true in
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: ms Krug's situation. In Colorado, that law has passed.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: Yay.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: Governor Jared Polis Police Paulis Police, I don't know. The
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: governor signed the bipartisan bill on March thirtieth, twenty twenty six.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: It now requires social media companies to acknowledge receipt of
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: a court ordered search warrant within eight hours and comply
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: within seventy two.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: Hell yeah, that is like much more reasonable, which is
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: great for Colorado.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: In the state of Oregon, Christilee's law was also passed
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: and is now in effect as of May six.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: Oh that is so cool. Okay, all the rest of
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: the states. Let's go chop chop, get on it.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: Though Rebecca Ivanov had originally targeted a forty eight hour
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: turnaround for her current home state, she is pleased that
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: the law now requires communications companies to respond to warrants
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: in five days and social media companies within seventy two hours.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I can imagine the social media of it all now, Like, yeah,
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: that's really important because so many, so many fucking threats
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: go through on that shit all the time.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely, because you can create duplicate or fake profiles.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: And Yeah, as Rebecca has said of her cousin's case,
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: Christilee did everything right, the system operated as it's currently designed,
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: and she still got killed. She has also said if
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: she were here, she would want something positive to come
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: out of what was a horrific experience for her family.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: She would not want any other victims to have to
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: experience what she did. And this is a common sense
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: solution to a system based failure. I think she'd be
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: proud of this work.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: Oh of course she would. And I fucking hate that
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: she had to be like the sacrifice, you know, to
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: keep this going.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: She's like the sacrificial lamb. She is hopeful the law
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: can be further strengthened in twenty twenty seven, and continues
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: to advocate for some similar legislation at the federal level.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: I like her me too. It's like, I don't want
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: to say it's a great thing that like her cousin
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: was involved in the law or politics or whatever, but like,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: that's very fortunate to have someone who's so passionate about
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: it because it's their family. It's happening too, so that
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: they're going to fight right so hard for it.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: No. I mean it's so true because think about there
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: are so many situations where it's like it just takes
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: someone who cares and either will figure out or knows
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: the right steps to take to make the changes that
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: are necessary. So it's like, in a way, this had
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: happened to somebody that like was somehow connected to someone
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: who was either just going to roll up their sleeves
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: and figure it the fuck out, or had the knowledge
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: and resources to do it. I feel like that's that's
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: kind of the unfortunate truth of the matter, is that
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: like that that's kind it feels like that's what it takes.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: You feel like you want to do some taro about it.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we should. I think I need that
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: little break.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: I need some closure.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: Like it's rough, it was awful, but like there was
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: good things that did come out of it.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, that is massive public, public good that has
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: come out of this situation. And I think, you know,
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: in a case like this where it is so stunning,
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: you know, the failure of our existing systems, it's like
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: that's that's what we need to see. We need to
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: see that, like the system gets its shit together, people
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: make it happen, you know. You know.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: What I just also keep thinking about is him and
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: the key and like saying he saw a stalker right
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: by the garage and that they like the key was missing.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm pretty sure that that never happened.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, obviously there's so but I mean, there's so many
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 4: things that it's like, well, i mean, I'm sure he
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 4: wasn't just lying about every single event every day of
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 4: their lives, but I'm like, that's something well may and
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 4: maybe maybe, but you know, it's like all of these
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 4: things that you look at with such a different lens
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 4: because it's like him trying to set up that like,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 4: oh somebody else did.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: This, And I was wondering about like I said, why
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: they got the locks changed? Right, Like that happened. Like
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: if you're if your husband sauce a stalker around your
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: house and your guy's key was missing, you don't think
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: he would change the locks immediately.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: I know at my house, we sure as shit would
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: And I don't I don't know, you know, if they
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: did or at what point they did, uh Right. I
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: feel like that's kind of one of those details that's
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: like very interesting, but at the same time, because there's
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: so much information and it's like this huge overarching like
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: the case, the case is so much bigger even you know,
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: just what happened to their family, right, Like it becomes
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: about how this has spurned new legislation that hopefully is
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: you know, potentially saving thousands and thousands of lives in
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: the future. Yeah, because the information is available in what
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: is as you know, as they said, completely reasonable.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I guess you said they could have they
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: could have gotten the locks change and we just don't know,
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: but because it was just like a scare tactic.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: Right Yeah. And like I said that, you know, there
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: there are a lot of instances like that where it's like, Okay,
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: I could probably try to trace down that specific detail
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: for you know, an hour, maybe not come up with
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: the answer actually, because no one is asking, like me,
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: just like I need to know did they change the
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: L I mean, I feel like there are always people
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: out there that want to know all of these details
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: because you know, especially I think, maybe more so in
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: an unsolved case. Right, yeah, you know every detail matters,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: you know, especially in an unsolved case. But no, I
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: feel the same way because I have to sometimes I
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: have to sometimes pick a choose because it's like, listen,
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna, you know, not talk about at length
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: some of these other things because they're just so much
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: more important. I have to. It's a it's a it's
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: a process of letting go sometimes, like those things that
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: I just really am like this honestly does not matter,
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: we won't ever address it again, Like.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: And then you let it go, and then I immediately
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: bring it all up, like why didn't you answer this
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: for me?
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: Sometimes and then sometimes there are things that like I
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: have been like no, I I feel like this is
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: important I need to know, and you know that it's
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: like you're like, oh, I guess I didn't even really
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: think about it, so.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: I didn't even know that I wanted to know that,
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: but thank you.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Wow. All right, I'm gonna shuffle a boop.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'll send you energy, Crystial. I hope you're happy
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: wherever you are, watching over your family and all the
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: laws protecting people.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: So let me know kind of in that keyboard cross section,
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: what you're thinking.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: Okay, is there one by like the question mark?
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna pull it.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: Oh oh oh, okay, Night of Swords. Haven't we gotten
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: this one like recently?
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: Have we?
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: I feel like, because the bird was like diving or
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: something or like flying really fast, we're talking about that.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it's the same one or not.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: But Night of Swords is interesting because like we were saying,
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: like I literally said, he was he was on his
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: white horse. That's the sharp sword sword. Yeah, why did
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: I say that?
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: Okay? And then uh I kind of turned right to it.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: So that was interesting. Oh my god, weird. Ah, I'm
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: freaking the keywords okay, Okay, So the keywords are daring, chivalry, forthrightness, impatience,
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: single mindedness, and insensitivity and Cassie, I don't think you
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: could have known this because we're using the P and
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: w deck. But in the traditional deck he's on a
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: horse with the sword. Yep, a white horse with a sword. Dude,
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: I was just channeling Carrow and I said that, yep. Okay.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: So in the traditional deck, if he represents a person,
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: you know, he may be someone who's overly aggressive or
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: argumentative who lives in attack mode. Or he might be
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: a spiritual warrior mister Catholic school. Oh that's right, one
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: who uses his intellect to examine and purify himself.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: Oh so you like convinced himself he was doing the
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: right thing.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: I think so. The upright Night may suggest you're passionate
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: about your ideas and believe wholeheartedly in the rightness of
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: your objective.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: I could. Yeah, sounds like him.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: If this card represents an actual person, he's probably a
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: young man who expresses his ideas enthusiastically and may have
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: trouble understanding other viewpoints, Like someone who doesn't want to
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: be with you, right yeah. Maybe like a man who's
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: a cross between a car salesman and a politician.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh god.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: He has a quick mind and keen intellect, but may
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: lack true wisdom.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: Oh my god.
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: Sometimes this night symbolizes an urgent message or an unexpected trip.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there were some messages that needed to be that
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: were urgent, that needed to be figured out.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: In a reading about money, you may need to act
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: quickly on a financial matter, but don't neglect to study
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: the situation before making a decision. Well, it's too late.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: The upright night may point to a trip for financial
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: reasons or a message about money. Sometimes he heralds a
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: change in your resources. If the reading is about your job,
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: this card can represent a business trip. Sometimes it means
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: a job change or a shift in work related responsibility,
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: as in, you no longer have a job outside of
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: prison and.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: You went on vacation for life for life.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: The knight may also caution you to hold your tongue
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: and bide your time. Diplomacy is important now. In a
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: reading about love, the night may point to a new
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: affair or a change in an existing relationship that brings
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: more freedom, excitement, and openness. It can also recommend being
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: more flexible and tolerant.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: Hmm, Yeah, the recommendation there is spot on. Yeah, Like,
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: maybe you could have won her back if you were
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: just not an a hole.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: Just sucked less.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. In general, this car just confirms all my thoughts
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: and feelings about Danielle.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: Danielle ew daniel Oh my gosh, well should we say
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: the thing to all the people?
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Oh wait, I had a question about do you
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: have the little book? I want to see what kind
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: of bird it was? The dive bombing bird.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: It looks like a hawk.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: I feel like we said that last time, and it
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: was something with hawk in the name, but not a hawk,
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: A goss hawk, goss hawk, goss hawk.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: Oh that's yeah. How did you know that.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: Because we've pulled it before and I just remembered it.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, it's a northern gosshawk or ghost shop I
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: don't know.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we couldn't figure out how to say a last
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: time either.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we could look it up, but you know.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: Eh, you guys have more free time than us. You
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: do it.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: A tableau of paralyzed beer.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: Oh. I don't like that. It's like what he was
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: doing to them.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh god, is.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: The little story thing relevant?
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: I mean kind of And I'm not going to read
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: the whole thing because it's basically just like a hop
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: like a not hawk, uh, you know, chasing down its prey.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: And the last sentence says trapped her here, maybe she
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: could think her way out.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: Oh no, I don't like that.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: I don't like that at all.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: But yeah, the imagery of the prey, like stock stalking
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: your prey is what we like.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: Say, I don't like that at all.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: Ooh, so that really does go with it. That's kind
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: of crazy, it really does. And that was our little
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: interpretation book from the P ANDW deck, which we're pretty
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: sure we read the story last time we pulled the card.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: But yeah, which may not have been that long ago.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: I'm not really sure.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: I don't remember, considering the fact that I pulled out
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: of my butthole. Probably not.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: It's gotta have been sometime pretty recently, right, I think so?
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: I mean we could look on Instagram and see true true. Yeah,
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: it's not that hard to check, actually that we can
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: quickly verify. Well, should we say goodbye to the people
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: before I pee my pants? Oh?
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, and my stomach is going to eat itself.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: It needs a snack. Have creepy yes day. We'll see
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: you next Thursday, unless you're fucking stalker. Otherwise, please leave,
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: get the fuck out.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: See a number.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: Nobody wants you to hear you, which is like, I
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: don't know does that urge on a stalker if you
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: tell them nobody wants them there, because then they're like, ooh,
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: that makes it more exciting.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: I feel like they just don't care well, they only.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: Care about themselves, clearly treating people like objects.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: In alleges I would do that to my children. Blow
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: me alleges, Daniel, bitch, please