Latest / Beyond The Ceremony: Modern Celebrancy. Unfiltered. / Beyond The Ceremony Podcast Ep 9: Building Relationships With Wedding Venues with Tara Heath-Arnold
Transcript
- Speaker 1 0:00 So welcome back to beyond the ceremony. I am joined today by fellow celebrant mentor at the AMC, and my celebrant sister. I love to call her Tara the celebrant. Hello. So we had so much fun last time you are we did. I thought, let's get you on again, because you are just a fountain of knowledge. So many things that we can talk about. So today, Tara, I want to talk to talk to you about growing your relationships with venues. Has a wedding celebrant, yeah? Now, obviously this does apply to funeral celebrants and naming celebrants as well, yeah. But specifically today we're going to focus on weddings, yes. Okay, so first of all, talk to me about how you would grow your relationship with a brand new venue, Speaker 2 0:37 absolutely. So I think if I take this back a step to when I was starting. So I trained as celebrate in 2019 then launched my business. Really it was 2020 which was the year of the pandemic. So I had the luxury of time to think about my marketing strategy and how I was going to grow my business. So I then kind of took another step back, thinking about when I worked in recruitment and when I was working with teams, and we were building businesses and starting really from the ground up. So for me, face to face interaction, meeting somebody, shaking someone's hand, yes, is really important. You can't beat it. You can't beat it. And connection, yeah, and we live, we do live in quite a virtual world, and we do a lot of stuff on Zoom. But I think when it comes to things like weddings or funerals, I think trust and confidence when a supplier is recommending another supply is really, is really, really key, absolutely. So I spent some time putting together what I call my venue strategy, because I recognized that when a couple gets engaged, one of the first things that they will do is, when they're sort of doing all their wedding is book their venue, of course. So it's literally almost top of the list. Yes, whatever it may be dictates the whole Speaker 1 1:48 day, doesn't it, the venue. So I guess it is kind of the first thing that they think about definitely. And in fact, I Speaker 2 1:53 was at a wedding fair yesterday, and I was talking to a couple. They said, well, once we've got our venue sorted, everything else will be like, it's game on. We'll go after other suppliers, yes? So I then thought, right, I need to get myself in with this key venue. So I did a lot of research. I looked at websites like, hitch rock my wedding, whatever it may be, yeah, I kind of looked at the venues in my area. And actually, this is the exciting part of being a celebrant, because we can conduct a ceremony anywhere. Once you scratch the surface, there are tons and tons and tons of venues out there, licensed, non licensed. We're seeing so many interesting venues coming through. There's some beautiful ones, beautiful vans and historic venues and castles. But actually, really quite interesting places. I do weddings at a place in Bristol called the forge, which is like a micro wedding place. Oh, lovely, beautiful. And then across the road from there, there's an amazing venue called the mount, without which is actually a de consecrated church. Love that one of my favorite places to officiating. The acoustics are amazing. So actually, as a celebrant, coming into it, it's exciting, because actually you can think, right, who's my ideal client, and where is my ideal client going to be getting married? Yes, and that's kind of how it began. So I basically made a massive list of the venues that I thought I want to work with these people. And that's sort of the beginning of my strategy. Yes, fantastic. Speaker 1 3:12 Yeah. So then, how did you go about that? What would be, once you've kind of got that hit list in place, all those people that you want to target, what would be step one, like, how do you do it? You send an email. Do you just go and turn up one day, like, talk to me about that? Yeah. Speaker 2 3:24 So I really kind of had, like, a multi layered approach to this, and this stemmed back from when I was working, back in the day in recruitment, to a brand that one of the businesses was launching. And this, these consultants had no clients, yeah? So they put together what they called, sort of their their strategy in terms of building those clients. So I created a spreadsheet of all the venues I researched. So I spent time online, looking at their website, their social medias. So I pinpointed the name of the venue manager. I looked at what kind of weddings they'd had there, sort of what their strategy was, sort of on social media, and then basically I picked up the phone, right? This is not necessarily going to be will come naturally easily to everybody, but I actually say if you are willing to do that, or you feel like you can do that, it will show kind of some gumption in terms of, I've picked up the phone, yeah, I really want to work with this venue so often, actually, again, this was sort of the 2020, 21 time. The reception was really good, so I just started engaging in conversation, talking about the venue, talking about the venue weddings they'd had, talk about how long the venue manager had been there. Often you can find some extra information from LinkedIn in terms of where that person might have worked. And from that call, I tried to secure a visit. If I couldn't get through to the venue manager, or I couldn't secure a visit, I would often then pop an email, but emails I'm not a massive fan of because people can just delete, yeah, of course. So I would then go back to the traditional pigeon post, and I used to write a really nice note card, send my business card just to say, Hi, I'm Tara. I'm a celebrant. I'd love to come and see you. I'd love to come and work with you. And actually, more often than not, I would get a. Sponsor back because I'd made the effort to absolutely send a little bit of bail. Speaker 1 5:03 Yeah, and I think as well, like, gone are the days where we used to get loads of exciting things through the post so less like me, even online shopping, it's like actually having that physical product in front of you that's just like a little card or something. Yeah, it's there in front of them. Like you say, they can't just press Delete. They've literally gonna open it. See your branding, see your branding, see your name, see a bit of your personality, yeah. And I think that's what's so important. And as well, exactly like you said, picking up the phone, it shows your personality. You can do a bit of that in an email, but you're not going to leap off the screen and be like, here I am. This is me. I am. Tara, like, actually, whereas if they talk to you on the phone, or they get that actual mail, then like, exactly like you said, it really shows you and showcases you. Yeah, Speaker 2 5:42 definitely. And I think as well, if you are able to secure that visit, I actually think sitting down with someone, talking to them, showing an interest in their business, being able to showcase what you can do as a celebrant is key. I think this then comes back to the fact that couples are booking their wedding there, so you want to secure, hopefully, a place on their supply list, but also the venue managers got to have confidence in saying yes, Tara or Laura is a celebrant that you need to book. Yeah? So you need to have met them face to face. They need to have that confidence that you're the right person for that couple, yeah, Speaker 1 6:15 because it's their reputation as well, isn't it, I think that's the thing, obviously, for us, it's, it's, you know, we really want to be on those recommended supplier lists, but actually you've got to show that venue that you're going to keep their reputation up and give their couples the service that they expect. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And what would you say were some of the key challenges that you faced when you started building those relationships, and how did you kind of overcome them? Yeah, Speaker 2 6:36 I think again. And we talked about this before on the other episode, it is sometimes about endurance, and you do need, sometimes need to see the long, sort of a longer game as well. Yes, and I think that's maybe sometimes where people go wrong. They get frustrated that they've trained, maybe as a celebrant, or whatever it may be. They create a website, and they think the business does it, yeah, you need to nurture it. And actually, sometimes you need to play that long game as well. So there may be venues where they've already got an approved supplier, so you need to keep in contact with these people. So one of the things I talk to people about, the fact is, it might take you 12 months, 24 months, whatever it may be, and it's almost the same. We've talked about this a lot with sort of, maybe building your relationships with funeral directors and in that, in that industry as well. So don't give up. And also remember that people move on from jobs, so you might establish a relationship with a venue manager, but they might move on. So true. So you need to keep so I or with my spreadsheet, I keep on top of it every quarter. Great. I'll pick up the phone, give a call round, or send out some emails and make sure all my information is correct as well. And then there may be times where actually they've got a locked in tight supply list. So maybe offer them something. Maybe say, look, I come and do a training session for your prospective couples on writing their vows to them. Great idea, so that you're kind of showing that it's kind of like a two way relationship in some respects as well. Absolutely. Speaker 1 7:54 And I think that's the thing. Sometimes that challenge, like you say, that's something that you hear quite a lot that they say, Oh well, we've already got our recommended celebrants, or we've already got a top list of top five that we use, or that kind of thing. Don't see that as an absolute No, exactly like you said, yes, what have you got to offer them? And also, it's kind of like, well, yes, you've got all those other celebrants, but actually you haven't got me. I'm different. I can offer something different for your couples. Yeah. So it's kind of showcasing that really, I guess, isn't it definitely? Speaker 2 8:23 And also, I think anybody who's coming into this community, don't forget, okay, they might have an approved supplier list, but can those suppliers always fulfill those dates Absolutely? And as you say, every couple is different. They might be looking for something different in a different celebrant. So it's about being proactive and keeping in touch. The other thing that I also recommend is that if you secure booking with a couple with a brand new venue and you haven't visited them yet, yes, the wedding might be in 18 months, I would pick up the phone straight away to that venue and get a visit in the next few weeks, 100% because how many couples are going to be walking through the door? Yes, over that 18 month period, yes, before you actually physically step over the barriers, absolutely. Speaker 1 9:00 And actually, some venues do have that rule in place, don't they? Where you need to have done X, Y, Z, amount of ceremonies there before, they'll recommend you, yes. So if they know that you've already got one book, yes, that's a great way in to then say, Look, you know, in that meantime, in those 18 months, two years, I could book another two or three with you, and then I can be a recommended supplier, absolutely, Speaker 2 9:19 definitely. And I always go to the basis that, you know, it's the couple are very important. I need to be able to see the venue space, the ceremony space. I need to be comfortable in that. So please, can I come and see you? And often from then, you know, we're good at building rapport with people. That's what we do as celebrants. So, you know, it often develops into a lovely relationship. And might be able to secure some more business apps or a space on the supply list I have also there was one venue that I wasn't able to break into. So I was actually I officiated a wedding at another venue, and I passed it on the way back through. So I turned the car around the drive, Hi, I'm Tara. I've just been officiating here, and I managed to secure a visit. Yeah, that's quite brave. But they were like. Brilliant. Come on in. Yeah, you've got to be bold. And Speaker 1 10:01 I think as well, there's no time where you're on such an adrenaline rush, yeah, as post ceremony, you know, that's the time you're feeling buzzy, yeah? And you're like, I remember, I'd went to do the same actually, last year, and I got there and there was a wedding on, so I was like, Oh, I'm backing out of here. I don't want to be gate crashing. And, yeah, you know, joining in in the speeches. But that is such a great way to do it, because you can just say, Hi, I've literally just been around the corner at this venue doing this like, you know, I've just done the ceremony there. Do you want me to do the same for you? Fantastic. And I also think as well, of course, it does mainly work that way, where venues will recommend you. But I also think once we start building that relationship with our couples, it works both ways. I've got some couples who will come to me and, you know, they might have just got engaged, or they've seen what I've done on Instagram, or it might be that they've seen me do a friend's wedding, and they've gone, oh, look, we've just got engaged, or we're thinking about, you know, wedding planning, but we have no idea where we want to get married. We can also recommend venues, too, yeah. And I think if you've had that great relationship and that great experience with a venue, you're more likely to send couples their way as well. So yes, it is mainly them recommending us, but actually it does definitely work the other way too, definitely. And Speaker 2 11:09 I think actually, once somebody starts their journey in celebrancy and they start working with venues, one thing I'd say is also with your website, make sure you have a dedicated section. Yes, just because of the algorithm and backlinks that all works really nicely as well. So and again, but again, it takes time to establish, and you need to think sort of really quite strategic, strategically about it as well. Speaker 1 11:31 So of course, it's not going to be something that you qualify, and then that's it. You're on 10 recommended suppliers. Don't feel like it is, yeah, because you know exactly what you said. It does take a lot of time, and, you know, nurturing these relationships and give Speaker 2 11:43 yourself time with it as well. And I think I talked about this with somebody yesterday, actually a student that was doing a live ceremony with me yesterday afternoon. She would say, you know, what do you think about wedding fairs? And I said, Well, actually, I think they're really quite important. And I tend to work with or sign up to wedding fairs with venues that I'm an approved supplier on, yes, great to support them. Great. So I might not necessarily get business from it that day, but I've supported the venue, therefore, hopefully they'll continue to support me and recommend me as well. Absolutely Speaker 1 12:10 I agree, and I think that is completely the case for myself as well. There's kind of been wedding fairs in the past that I've gone well, you know what? It might not be one that I get loads of bookings from. Again, couples might be at that early stage, or it might not, you know, maybe be the right time for them to book you as a celebrant. However you're showing up, you're supporting them. But also questions come up on the day from couples that then the venue hear about and talk about, and actually then they can then use that information to pass on to future couples. So wedding like wedding fairs and open days are such a great relationship builder, aren't they, and an educator, I think, for venues too, networking Speaker 2 12:44 with other suppliers. In fact, the wedding fair I was at yesterday, I had a couple who really wanted to book a celebrant, but I was already booked for another day, but I fed it to somebody else, right, who I think is going to secure the booking. And I'm a great believer in that. So actually, the venue point, the venue sort of development, is really important, but it has lots of layers to really to layers to really does, how it feeds out. Speaker 1 13:04 Yeah, it really, really does, absolutely. And what would you say, from your perspective, what do you think those venues value most in a celebrant? So what is it they're looking for, and what do they value? Yeah, I think, Speaker 2 13:13 I think those, those good relationships, those good professional working relationships as well. I think as the celebrant community continues to grow, I think venues generally love celebrants. Yes, they do. We're really flexible and great fun. Well, good fun. We're all about making sure the ceremony is amazing. I'm always very conscious with the ceremony that I'm Yes, I'm delivering, but I'm not ever stood in one place. I'm always very conscious about making sure the photographer's got their right position, their shots, the videographer. So, you know, and I think we're there to support the venue, whereas sometimes maybe other efficients that come in, it's quite regimented. Yes, strict, absolutely. Speaker 1 13:52 So yeah, yeah. And I think as well, it goes back to the point that, like you say, we are there looking after that ceremony. So actually, the venue team know that we've kind of got it in hand. Maybe reserve seating might be something that we can take off their hands, because we know who's going to be sitting there. Or just little things like, you know, get getting the couple a glass of water to have at the front or, you know, making sure that their tables in the right position. Like we're worrying about all those things. So the venue actually doesn't have to, it kind of takes it off their hands Absolutely. Speaker 2 14:19 And as a matter of course, whether I've been to that venue five times, 20 times, or the first time, I'll always be there about an hour, hour and a half hours, absolutely agree to make sure the ceremony space is super smooth. And, you know, I'm ready to go rather than rushing in, yeah, absolutely, totally, very promptly as well. Yeah, Speaker 1 14:35 I think that's the nice thing. We are just dedicated to making sure that ceremony runs smoothly and is a family experience from start to finish. Absolutely. The other thing as well, I think that's nice for venues is it's not a script that they have heard maybe quite a few times and perhaps could recite themselves. Yes, it's actually a script that's new and entertaining and different for them. And I think that's really nice. And this Speaker 2 14:56 comes back to the investment that we make to our couples. Yeah, giving the best possible experience, telling that story, you know, making it fun, different, tailored, personal, yeah? I think, yeah. I think generally, venues are big fans of celebrants Absolutely. Speaker 1 15:09 So how would you ensure smooth communication and teamwork with those venues? Obviously, we've touched on it slightly. But what do you think is really important in, you know, that working relationship with venues to make sure that the couple's vision is really brought to life. Yeah, definitely. Speaker 2 15:23 So I think if I'm booked by a couple and it's new venue, then I'll go and visit them immediately. As I said, if it's a couple that maybe a venue that I've worked with regularly, I might just pop them an email to say I'm the celebrant for that day. Great. Normally, the week before the ceremony, I'll pick up the phone just to say, who's in charge today? I'm the celebrant that day, right? This is what I need that day, because sometimes you might need a table for a certificate or a symbolic ritual. And I also ask them, What do you need from me as well? So I make sure that we've got mobile numbers if we need to communicate on the day, right? And then I think timing is always important. I would rather be there super early, yes, than just running in. And I think they appreciate that as well. Yeah, Speaker 1 16:02 I really think they do. And actually, that's something that from personal experience, there's so many that I led last August. And you know what August is like in the UK? It can be a little bit iffy in terms of weather. We hope it's going to be a beautiful summer's day, but you just never know. Yeah, and this particular couple, they'd flown in from America, and they'd always dreamt about having their English country garden wedding. It was a beautiful venue, Lucknow park, so it was in the ground, beautiful venue, with the wall garden and everything. And they dreamt about this day. But on the day itself, we were having those typical thunderstorms overhead. There was a bit of a worry. The air was very humid, and we were thinking, Oh, what's going to happen? And actually, when I got there, I kind of had a little, you know, meeting with the venue team, and this was all going on while the bride and groom were just getting ready, like they weren't really they'd been in to see the bride and said, we may have to bring it inside. And I know she wasn't very happy with that decision, and it was something that, you know, she'd had a heart set on this garden wedding. So while they were then off, still getting ready and enjoying their morning, myself and the venue team were like, checking out all the weather apps, looking at timings, looking at, you know, there's all those apps that show Speaker 2 17:04 you the rain clouds coming over, all of it all, like, focused on it. Yeah, exactly. And Speaker 1 17:09 I suggested to them, what do we think about bringing the ceremony forward slightly by, say, 15 minutes? We looked at the timings with the thunderstorm, and when, you know, we may have had rain, some apps were saying we were going to get it. Some were saying, No, you'll be fine. So it was a it was a little bit risky anyway, but we said, Well, look, that's going to be at this time. If we start 15 minutes earlier, the ceremony is going to be way clear of that. So by the time the rain comes, we're all going to be heading inside anyway. So I kind of had that chat with them, and we discussed it, and we said, Well, yeah, I'm happy with that. You're happy with that. Like we were all happy as a venue team and myself. So I then went and spoke to the bride separately. You know, we had a calm moment. I went and said hello to and I said, Oh, I'm just wondering, obviously, I know your heart's set on this garden wedding. How would you feel about bringing it early? I knew she was already in her dress and she was already ready. So she was like, Absolutely, if it means I can get married in the garden, I want to do it perfect. So that was what we did. And I think that was an example of that communication myself and the venue. We kind of made those decisions together. We worked together as a team. You know, they got all hands on deck, moving all the chairs back out, because they brought them in in case, and it all went really well. And actually, there wasn't a drop of rain all day. In the end, it just stayed very humid. But we had that in place, which then meant the bride and groom didn't even have to think about it. It It wasn't even on their radar because we were all, you know, working together. And I think that's exactly what you mean. That kind of communication with that venue, that relationship can you build up? Yes, you're not just walking in there going, right, I'm going to bring the ceremony 15 minutes earlier. And they're like, Who are you to say that? Absolutely like, using that relationship to kind Speaker 2 18:36 of build it up. And I think again, going back to celebrant led ceremonies, we generally only conduct one ceremony a day. Absolutely, occasionally, I've done two, and it's, you know, it's a lot of pressure, it's hard work. But so that means we have that flexibility, that if someone's running late, or something's happened, or we need to play with the weather a little bit, we can do that. Absolutely. Maybe, you know, the registrars, they have a very important role to do, but Fridays, Saturdays, they'll be doing six to eight ceremonies in a day. Yes, very, very strict on timings, no negotiation. Yeah, absolutely, Speaker 1 19:03 that is so, so true. Yeah. So would you say, based on all those kind of things we've just spoken about, what would you say are maybe some common misconceptions about what celebrants do, maybe that venues might think, or perhaps couples, but I guess focusing more on venues? Yeah, Speaker 2 19:17 I think, I think it's decreasing, but I think it is frustrating as a celebrant, where you might hear a venue will automatically recommend a registrar, yes, yes. And I think actually it's happening less, but I think a couple should be able to give, be given all the options, if that makes sense. Yeah, so. And I think Yeah. And I think maybe there are some venues that maybe don't understand what we do, we can offer the experience, the tailored, unique process, but I think it's increasing in terms of their knowledge. It Speaker 1 19:47 really is. Yeah, we're really kind of educating all the time. And I think as more and more people are becoming celebrants, yes, we're spreading the word, more people are realizing that choice that they've got, and actually the flexibility, like you say yes. And I think as well. Well, it even goes down to things like timing. So for example, there's been ceremonies that I've booked in the past, and I'm sure you're exactly the same, where the couple may have been thinking they were going to have a registrar, but they couldn't get the time they wanted. So then the you know, the venue were like, oh, actually you can, you know, think of the celebrant route. But it doesn't need to be just because of that. But what I mean is we can be so flexible in terms of things like timings and stuff like that. So I think there's still a bit more education to be done. I agree Speaker 2 20:25 with you, and I think actually that's happened to be a few times where they couldn't get the registrar slots, so they've had to have a celebrant, but Yeah, they'd already booked their day. But actually, I've had a couple who two couples who've actually written testimonials saying, thank goodness, yes, exactly. Thank goodness we had to celebrate, because it was the best thing that could have happened to us. Happened to us. So that's always sort of like, you know, a big win and a joy, yeah. But I think actually, every wedding that we conduct 4050 100 people, 150 people, the more and more people that are seeing these ceremonies, yes, and those couples, and often, you know, it could be a couple in their 20s or 30s, it's going to be a big group of their friends are going to be getting married as well. They're thinking, we want that. Yes, absolutely. Speaker 1 21:03 And I'm finding that myself on my inquiry calls, I'm finding more and more couples are coming to me saying, Oh, well, our friends had celebrants last year, and we loved it, and it really stood out, and when we compared them. I spoke to a couple the other day that went to six ceremonies last year. Two were celebrant, right? And four were registrars or church interesting, and they said the two celebrate ones just stood out so much. That's it. That's just music to our ears, isn't Speaker 2 21:26 it? To our ears, that's what we want to hear. And actually, that's something that I will always cover in initial zoom call, is, why do you want to celebrate? What has brought you to this call today? Have you sat in a celebrant ceremony? You know? Why? Why are we having this conversation? That's sort of one of my starting points with a couple. Yeah. Speaker 1 21:40 And I think that's the thing for venues. It's like, actually that needs to be something in their initial consultation, absolutely. And also, as well, we touched on it again in the previous episode that you joined me on why celebrancy matters. But we spoke a little bit about this there, where actually religion can sometimes be an element in there, because actually registrars can't include religious ceremonies. Spirituality, exactly. So if a couple are dead set on having their ceremony at the venue, they don't want to go to a church and then come to the venue afterwards, then a celebrant is absolutely the right choice for them, because they can include exactly what it is that they want. Yeah, and I think it's things like that the venues are more and more you know, they're learning, they're being educated on those different choices. And I think that's where we can bring that value for their couples as well, because they know that actually, they're not just going to go, oh, we can't have the whole thing there, so we're just going to go and use a church like, definitely. Yeah, fantastic. Thank you, Tara, yet again, a fantastic conversation with you. I loved it good. So finally, I always like to finish on this, a piece of advice for anyone considering becoming a celebrant. So I know I've already had a bit from you in our other episode. Yes. Do you have another piece of advice? Speaker 2 22:44 Yeah. So if I link this specifically to venues, lovely is yes in terms of advice. So I think if you're considering becoming a wedding celebrant, venue development and your visibility with venues is going to be very important, so you need to consider your strategy. But I think again, linking it back to the previous episode, you need to be resilient. Yeah, you need to think of sort of a long game as well in terms of nurturing those relationships, being visible, going to get those meetings, making those connections. So I think you need to have that sort of in line in your strategy as well. Speaker 1 23:15 Fantastic. Oh yeah, Tara, you have been amazing yet again. And if you enjoyed my chat with Tara, make sure you go and check out our other episode where she was a fabulous guest. Why celebrancy matters. And again, a big thank you. Tara, the celebrant. Speaker 2 23:26 Yay, thanks, Laura, yay.