Latest / The Cyber Savvy Woman / More Than a Price Tag: Protecting Art, Memories, and Legacy | Andrea Roth | The Cyber Savvy Woman | EP 152

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More Than a Price Tag: Protecting Art, Memories, and Legacy | Andrea Roth | The Cyber Savvy Woman | EP 152 · The Cyber Savvy Woman

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Hey, welcome to the Cyber Savvy Woman, where women business owners reclaim their power in the digital world.
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We shatter the myth that cybersecurity is too complex to master and transform protection strategies into clear, actionable guidance.
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This is your digital empowerment sanctuary, where cyber fear becomes cyber confidence.
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Whether you're protecting client trust as a therapist or safeguarding financial data as an advisor, you'll hear from women founders who've conquered digital challenges and security experts who speak your language.
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Every woman leading a business deserves to feel unshakable in her digital decisions, no matter her technical background.
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Are you ready to stop letting cybersecurity intimidate you and start letting it elevate you? Here's your host, Rachel Shanker.
Welcome back to the Cyber Savvy Woman, where we talk about practical ways women can protect themselves, their businesses, and their futures in our increasingly digital world.
I'm your host, Rachel Shanker, a Silicon Valley technologist and owner of the award-winning managed service provider, CMIT Solutions of San Mateo.
Today, I'm excited to introduce Dr.
Andrea Roth.
She's the managing director of Roth Escher Art Group.
Andrea is an accredited senior appraiser with nearly three decades of experience in the art world.
Her fascinating career It's taken her to Renaissance art scholarship to building a highly respected business specializing in the valuation of fine art, antiques, furnitures, and collectibles.
Whether she's helping families with estate planning, working with collectors and insurance professionals, or educating people about their ev- about the ever-changing art market, Andrea brings together history, business, and a deep appreciation for preserving the stories behind the objects we treasure.
We're gonna talk about her incredible career journey, some of her biggest misconceptions people have about art and value, and how technology and even AI is changing the world of art appraisal.
Andrea, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much, Rachel.
It's a pleasure to be here Yeah, yeah.
Um, s- you know, so many people dream of working in the art world.
How did your journey from studying art history to becoming, you know, a nationally recognized art appraiser unfold well, nationally recognized art appraiser.
Wow, that's, that sounds so impressive.
Yes, you are.
So impressive.
Uh, thank you for that honor.
I'm not sure I quite deserve that, but I believe you do, but yes.
well, you know, it's interesting because I have always I lo- I've always loved history.
Uh, to me, to some degree, history is a little bit like a soap opera, you know? And, um, I love s- I have insatiable curiosity for how things develop over time and how, how history develops.
And, um, as a child, we moved around a lot and we visited a lot of museums.
I had the good fortune of traveling a lot, and my father, um, although he was a physician by profession, he loved art and he loved museums, and he took me, um, with great pains to every museum that, uh, we visited.
At the time, you know, it felt a little bit like a burden, but I think that, um, that stuck with me and it imprinted on me and, um, I think those trips, you know, were important in the end.
And, um, when I was an undergrad, I was not an art history major.
I was an international relations major, and that too was because I loved studying other cultures.
Um, then because of a lot of different things, you know, uh, but I went back to school in art history and I got a graduate degree, a master's and a PhD in art history, um, and it brought me back to my roots of blending history with artifacts.
And then my career really began as a scholar.
I, I taught art history, um, at UC Davis, at UC Riverside, and at Santa Clara University, and, um, it was very rewarding and I loved being an art history professor.
Uh, once I had young children, though, I just, I, I wanted a career that allowed for more flexibility and, um, yet I didn't wanna throw away the knowledge that I had accumulated about art and history and this was a really amazing, practical way to, to blend the two.
And it was actually a friend who, in the insurance industry, who said to me, "Have you ever thought of art appraising?" Oh, interesting.
and, you know, yeah.
He said we, "There's a real need for art experts, uh, for authentication purposes, for valuation, for expert witness," and so one thing led to another and, and here I am 23 years later.
Yeah.
Yeah, I love that.
You know, and so for someone who is maybe unfamiliar with art appraisal, what exactly do you do and who typically needs your services? So we do um, an art appra-- I mean, it's so, it's so long, right? So an art appraiser is, um, an unbiased, objective, trained professional who places a monetary value on artworks and collections in the way that it's structured, evidence-based, um, and usable for legal, financial, and insurance purposes.
We don't just estimate what something might be worth.
We produce a documented opinion of value that can be relied on by institutions, courts, and insurers.
So at the very basic level, um, we answer two questions: What is the artwork worth, and why is that value supportable in the real market? Um, and then the work behind that is, is quite involved.
You know, the first thing that we do is we identify and we document the work.
So we are on site where we're confirming an actual artwork as a record.
We verify who the artist is, we verify the medium, we def- verify dimensions, we take photographs, is it signed, we verify condition, history of ownership, and then we do the research where we figure out the market value.
Um, and our analyses are based on comparable data in the marketplace using auction sales results, dealer private sales data when it's available.
Um, market-- we look at market trends for the artist.
We look at timing and demand, um, and we apply the relevant methodology because depending on the assignment, one value is not equal for all purposes.
So our first question to ask is why do you need this? If it's for insurance, we appraise for replacement value.
If it's for estate tax, we appraise for fair market value or for liquidation if it's for divor- it depends on the purpose.
Um, and then we produce a formal report, and that formal report has written analyses and conclusions for the value with all our comparable sales data.
It has photographic documentation and our methodology.
and I think you asked also who needs an appraisal? Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Who comes to you? Like, is it...
Yeah, sh- share with us that engagement so, yeah, so there, it's a wide range of people, you know, and it's not just collectors.
Um, but our pr- our main, um, clients are private collectors who have expensive things in their homes, and it's not just artwork, but it's also furniture and decorative art and antiques, crystal and silver and memorabilia, collectibles, things like this.
Um, and they need our services for insurance coverage, for, um, estate planning, estate tax, for divorce settlement, for a donation, for liquidation.
They might need help, um, buying or selling, making a buying or selling decision.
Um, anyone who inherits artwork has no idea many times what they have, and they need to know what it's worth.
There's definitely that Yeah.
Yeah.
Let's, let's stop there for a second.
What is the f- you know, if somebody does inherit, you know, an antique or a piece of artwork, what's the first thing they should do before they assume something is or isn't valuable? You know, what's, what sh- do they call you and your team or like, you know, how do, what should they, what should they do when they're yeah.
I mean, I think the very first thing, if they've inherited things that they have no idea what they are, um, they need to find out what it is, right? Number one, what is it? And then we can determine what it's worth.
So, um, many times they will, we'll be a first phone call, and we'll work with them either by doing a walkthrough or, um, getting some photographs, room shots.
Let's figure out what's there, and then determine if it makes sense to hire us.
Yeah.
Oh, nice So that's really the first thing is let's identify what's there.
yeah.
And you often speak of misconceptions surrounding the art value.
What are some of the biggest myths people believe or people come to you and you just have to kind of like level set and roll things back maybe? Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, um, so art value is often one of the most misunderstood parts of the art world because a lot of people assume it works like other markets, like stocks and real estate and commodities.
But in reality, it's, it's a hybrid of economics, you know? And it's, it involves taste, uh, friends, history, institutional behavior, and it creates a lot of myths.
So, um, for example, people assume that because they've done an estate plan 15, 10 years ago or more, that it's a one and done, and that they've done their due diligence, and they don't, you know, doesn't need to be updated.
Well, that's probably the number one misconception, is that, you know, things need to be updated.
At least assessed, not necessarily reappraised, but at least assessed every five so years.
Okay.
Yeah, I was gonna ask that.
Like, how often should somebody, you know, check back in and review? We, we estimate, and this is what most insurance companies will say too, every three to five years, I think five years is sufficient, um, just for an assessment.
Um, another thing a lot of people assume is that their insurance policy automatically covers everything under an umbrella, and that's not always the case.
You know, art often needs to have a separate schedule.
And they also assume that insurance is very expensive, and it's-- for artwork, unlike jewelry, which can be expensive 'cause it's easy to lose, um, artwork insurance is not that expensive and it's totally worth it.
It's like I, I don't wanna quote an amount because it, you know, insurance professionals should know, but, you know, last I looked it was something like 30 cents per $100 or something.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
It's not terrible at all.
Um, you know, other, you know, common misconceptions is that, uh, people assume that because an artist died, the market goes up 'cause he or she is dead and there's, they're not producing anymore.
That's not always the case.
So many factors One thing you mentioned, um, early on that I just wanna, like, go into a little bit more, uh, you talked about the insurance value or a fair market value and understanding that distinction.
Um, do you ever do...
You know, so t- explain a little bit more about that.
You know, why when you, when you look at something and you find out what their use case is, then you're gonna go in one direction or another.
What's the- Right.
Right.
And people assume there's just one value, and there isn't.
There are multiple values for multiple purposes.
Yeah.
Interesting So the most basic one, I guess, would be the insurance.
When you, when we are asked to do an insurance valuation for insurance coverage, we value for replacement value, and that means what is it, what would it take to replace this object with something of like kind and quality in the most convenient marketplace without having to bargain for the price? And that's usually at a dealer, at a retail dealer through a gallery, usually.
Um, so you know, those are gonna be oftentimes higher than what we would value a fair market value, you know, for estate tax or for a divorce or for estate planning.
So those are Maybe more conservative on that side Well, it can be.
Again, it really depends on the artist, but to give you, you know, example, the fair market value is a valuation that...
It's a definition that was, um, deemed by the IRS, and it's what, what is the value that the most knowledgeable consumers, willing buyers, and willing sellers are willing to pay for something in the most active market? So in many cases, again, not all, that's the secondary market at auction, and so that, you know, could be very different from a retail value, um, from a dealer.
Yeah, that makes sense.
But again, it depends on the artist, you know? With time, those discrepancies, that gap has, has narrowed, um, 'cause there's just more information out there Yeah.
Interesting.
Have you ever had any clients that were surprised, either pleasantly or unexpectedly by what their collection was actually worth? oh, yes.
But because we are very good at what we do, even though they may be surprised or disappointed, they don't question it because our due, we've done our due diligence and we've explained it, you know? Um, people often, you know, go by oral history that they've heard from relatives about what something might be worth, and they, they rely on that.
And so it's important to know the truth, and we are arbiters of truth.
You know, we just get to the accuracy Yeah, the facts.
Yeah, makes sense.
You know, if somebody is building a art collection today, what advice would you give them? Should they buy with the investment in mind, or should they buy what they love? Or do you do consulting work in that side, you know, help people build out their own collection or businesses? We do.
We do.
Um, we do offer art advisory services, and I always say to people, "Don't buy as an investment," um, just because art is not liquid.
Um, one does not know what's going to happen.
It's not quick to sell.
I advise people to find something that really speaks to them, that moves them emotionally, um, and then make a smart buying decision.
So don't just buy, you know, sort of blindly, Quantity.
Yeah.
but do your research, attend art fairs, go to gallery openings, you know, um, talk to galleries, ask a lot of questions.
Has this artist been exhibited? What is the ga- why did the gallery choose to represent this artist? Um, and then, you know, enlist the guidance of an art advisor or an appraiser because we have data that is not so easily accessible to the general public, and I'm always happy to consult with people on that, you know? And, and just, just sort of make sure that you're making a smart decision, but not necessarily an investment decision.
Right, right.
I like that balance of it.
Um, are there certain categories of collectibles that people m- often overlook or they think, "Oh, that's like a brick rack," or, you know, something like that maybe is lo- today's notion we think it's lost value, but there's still value there or in a marketplace.
Does that make sense? You know, things that like they're looking and like, "Oh, that, there's no value there," but actually there's some, some sort of like market going off on the side that's quiet and no one's really paying attention to.
Yeah totally.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I always encourage people to think about collecting a little more broadly, expanding categories, um, and to also include things like designer handbags.
Yeah, exactly.
That could be in the tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Those Birkin bags go for a lot.
That's a collect- you know, that's a significant asset.
Um, there are also things like, um, sports memorabilia, rock and roll posters.
Um, I ha- I walked into a client's home to do an art appraisal, and he had antique wooden carousel horses.
Who would think about those, you know? But there, there's actually a, a market for it.
Um, so there are, you know, there are areas of collecting, um, particularly now, I think the, the luxury market, uh, watches, things like that are also something to, to be considered.
But, um, there, there are people collect all sorts of seeming random things, but, you know, oddly I was in a home recently and they had chairs, like children chairs.
Like they had a whole wall covered with chairs.
really? It was so interesting.
I was like, "Oh, okay.
There's something happening here with small little baby chairs."
Yeah, I was like, "Hmm, okay."
Who know? Yeah.
And, you know, things like antique radios, um, you know, those kind of things.
You know, they may not be into hundreds of thousands, but they're probably gonna be maybe $1,000 where you thought that it was 20, you know, or something like that.
So that's something.
Yeah.
Um, have you seen the emotional side of your work with clients? You m- uh, you know, I, uh, you know, we talk about, you know, they're coming to you, there's either maybe a, um, change in their family, a divorce, someone's passed away.
You know, so there's also they're coming maybe in some with heightened emotions.
How do you and your team kind of like protect yourselves but support them? Like, talk about that piece.
Like, 'cause I'm sure, you know, you're walking into maybe an emotional, emotional situation.
We are often walking into an emotional situation, um, for a lot of reasons.
You know, for one, you know, there's been a death in the family, and now there are rival siblings who, you know, are quarreling over who gets what because their father or mother did not specifically designate, and that's problematic.
Yeah, for sure.
You know, I think that what, what we offer is a stabilizing force because once you put a dollar sign in front of something and you can actually...
It becomes more tangible, and when we can do our research to really demonstrate the importance of it, it, it adds a little bit more of, like I said, a stabilizer.
You know? And we try to be really, really sensitive to where these people are coming from and try to understand.
And sometimes it's not about the money, sometimes it's just about punishing the other party, you know? "I want it just because I know you want it," you know? And they need a therapist then, of course.
Right, right, exactly.
But you know, what we can provide is that kind of, you know, is the fact-based, um, advice by giving you, "This is what to look for," very neutral, objective third-party advice, and that helps a lot even in divorce cases when there's a lot of emotion involved.
What is, um, one of the most unusual or fascinating objects that you've ever been asked to evaluate? Well, it's funny, you know, due to confidentiality, uh, I can't give you too many details, Fair.
Okay.
Yeah but there was something that we valued, um, that was for Burning Man.
It was a uniquely constructed, you know how they have those, Art installations or one of the cars or something? um It was one of the cars.
It was a car that was turned into, again, I can't tell you what it was, Fair.
but I, it was incredible.
Wow.
Yeah It was, it was fully functioning as a historical, um, space.
And, and that was really remarkable.
It was, it was hard to value because it really had to do with the, you know, we used a, what's called the cost approach to that, 'cause what would it cost to reproduce it? But that's probably one of the most fascinating pieces of like cultural icon It was fun.
It was fun.
Yes, exactly, exactly.
Do people sometimes assume older pie- older pieces of are more valuable? And why is that not necessarily true? It, you know, they do.
They do.
Um, it's all about letting the market speak, right? So when you say older pieces, what immediately, immediately comes to mind is, like, old antique furniture, let's say.
Right.
And the market for antique furniture is, has been in decline for the past 20-some years, and a lot of the reason for that is an economic one, and that is that, um, baby boomers are aging, and they're downsizing, and a lot of their furnishings are hitting the market, and they're flooding the market without a huge demand Oh, interesting.
because young folks are more interested in buying from Pottery Barn, Crate Barrel, and IKEA.
Um, and if they have sophisticated taste or interest in antiques, they will buy mid-century modern, and then that, there is a very strong market for that.
So, you know, a lot of it has to do with market.
It's just market demand.
You know, similarly with artwork, you know, 19th century, that has always been Again, it depends on the artist.
It's been very stable, but it doesn't have the volatility that the more contemporary art market does.
Yeah.
You, you know, you recently purchased and expanded your business into the Roth Escher Art Group.
What has been...
Let's talk about your business a little bit.
What has been your biggest challenge and your biggest reward of business ownership? Oh boy.
Um, you know, the...
There have been challenges, but also a lot of rewards.
Um, for, in our situation, because we expanded into the Southern California market, the biggest challenge really has been, um, blending the two communities, A culture maybe? um, because we are geographically separate.
Yeah, and we're so geographically separate, and we are often working from home, and getting the two communities, the two teams to really get to know each other better.
Um, that has really been, I would say, my biggest challenge, and I'm trying to implement some strategies to, you know, bring each team member up he- up to the, you know, up and down to the different, uh, location.
Um, yeah, because, you know, they're really, they're wonderful.
They're all so smart and, Sure.
Yeah, of course um, capable and nice people, and I want them to know each other.
And so that, that's probably been the biggest challenge.
Is incorporating that? Yeah.
I wonder, yeah.
Interesting.
That, that'll come over time, I'm sure.
I think it will.
I think it will yeah.
You know, what keeps you excited and curious, um, about the art world? Or, you know, what are you looking forward to? What, what are you seeing the trajectory? Are you seeing new types of art that are hot on the market? Or, you know, what are you f- what are you what am I forecasting? Um, gosh.
what are you excited about? You know, what are you, what are you- well, what excites me is, um, I love learning new things.
Uh, you know, I have this kind of insatiable curiosity for, for learning something new, and even though I may have appraised the, the work by the same artist several times, the market's changed, you know? And so I have to relearn the market or kind of adjust.
Let's say relearn so much, but adjust.
Um, and you know, no two projects are alike, and I think that's what attracted me to art history and getting a, a advanced degree in the beginning was just my love of learning, and that has definitely not been satiated because of, I...
Every job is different, and I'm always learning something new, and that's what really excites me Yeah, that's fun.
Um, let's talk a little bit about how you use technology in your, in your work.
You know, as we've said, you know, AI is peeking in everywhere.
You know, how has-- Well, let's first talk about technology.
How has tech- You know, how do you use technology day to day? How, um, you know, how has it changed the world of art appraisal? Is it helping, hindering? You know, what's your point of view there? Yeah.
I mean, I, probably the biggest change, um, in the art appraisal industry has been the access to data.
So, um, excuse me.
The access to digital auction sale records, for example, has been a game changer in the industry.
Appraisers used to spend hours inside libraries Right.
perusing auction catalogs and making phone calls to auction houses and dealers in the hopes of gathering data.
And so that was one thing.
Now it's all digitized, and we belong, we have subscriptions to aggregate auction sale results, and that has changed everything.
And then of course, high-resolution photography, you know? Before, I mean, I've seen appraiser- appraisals from the early '90s where, you know, a photograph has been glued onto the report.
The adhesive has, you know, corroded over time and, you know, I mean, it's just game changer.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
Um, your firm has written about AI's impact on the appraisal industry.
What opportunities and concerns do you see surrounding AI, or what's your take on that? Well, my take on it really is that the AI, uh, AI has definitely helped the efficiency of internal workflows and, uh, faster research.
Um, we spend more time on judgment and client communication and less time on maybe manual data gathering.
Um, but honestly, I don't think it's going to replace us because the industry is so nuanced and so relationship based and so much analyses, and there's so much data that's hard to quantify and hard to measure based on a formula.
Um, just to give you an example, like, you know, a, a work of art might be enhanced in value because of its provenance, because of its rarity, because of its celebrity ownership, because of scholarship.
How do you measure that? That's not something that is easily measurable, and so that's what we have to determine with our brain and our thinking skills and our experience.
So, um, but it has definitely, you know...
I, I use it for preparing proposals, for example.
Um, it really has helped that streamline a little bit more and make it more clearer and, um, like I said, internal workflows, that has been really a game changer too.
So it's, it's terrific, but I just don't think it can really, you know, replace our ability to be critical thinkers No.
No, no.
You know, and if someone has, let's say, let's talk about a personal, like, um, how does somebody...
Should they be digitizing their collection themselves, or should they partner with someone to do it? Like, do you create, like, a digital inventory and they create one, or do you share it? Or how, how does that work? How...
You know, what do you suggest to people? Like, okay, you should be, you know, documenting this.
You know, maybe you do a report once every five years, but in that time period, I'm assuming they're probably still collecting things, and that has to be incorporated.
So how do you, you know, what do you suggest to your clients about how they keep their digital libraries? So that's one of the probably most important things that we recommend, particularly for the large collection.
Um, and so it, it, digit- digitizing and documenting a collection plays an important role in, in protecting it.
And, um, so we recommend using a cloud-based, uh, database.
That's, that's ideal, and there are some out there that we recommend that we've worked with.
We also have an internal one where we keep records for clients for the smaller collections.
Um, but it's important to use industry standards because those industry standards are understood by the, you know, industry as a whole, and that's important.
And so we will do that as part of our process, and we do that kind of inventory, and we use the proper vocabulary and the proper methodology.
And then along with that, um, comes the attachment of accompanying records like purchase invoices and conservation reports and framing invoices.
All of that stays because it facilitates planning.
You can tell your beneficiaries, "Here's a report of what we have.
Are you interested in this? Um, is this something that you wanna keep? Um, should we think about selling it?" It facilitates, um, insurance claims, you know, in the event of a loss.
All the data is already in there.
You don't have to search for it.
You know, people think they've done their due diligence by making copies of purchase invoices and putting them in a beautiful binder or having an Excel spreadsheet and, you know, all that's great, but if there's a fire, it's, it's lost as well.
So the digitization is incredibly important for maintaining the life of this collection and proving Yeah.
Have you encountered situations where missing records or pho- photographs, maybe they created some challenges during the insurance claim or the estate settlement? You know, what, you know, what happens then? Sure.
Well, well, because then there's a burden of proof that you actually own it.
And, you know, what we've had to do is we've used people's photographs from, like, their family celebrations, Yeah.
The show in the background.
you know, of the i- what shows the interior, and it, it, it's way in the background.
You can't tell how big it is.
You can't tell if it's signed.
You can't con- tell condition, you know.
And so we work, we work with that, but in the end, it's actually obviously not as efficient for obvious reasons, but it's also more costly because it takes us a lot of time, Oh, interesting.
Yeah.
You know, we bill by the hour.
And so if, if it's already documented and it's with the click of a f- you know, button, we can generate the report with all the data we need, there you go.
You know, we can prepare our, our rep- our appraisals from that, you know, Yeah, that makes sense.
mostly in terms of the loss All right, so Andrea, we've reached the part of the podcast where we call this a lightning round.
I'm gonna ask you questions.
You're just gonna tell me what comes top of mind.
Um, are you a coffee or a tea person? Coffee All right.
Italy or Oh, that's so hard.
France? That's so hard.
Right now I would say France Okay.
Uh, Renaissance masters or contemporary art right now it's contemporary art.
Again, it's, uh, depends when you ask me Yeah, interesting.
Okay, um, if you could own one masterpiece, what would it be? Oh my gosh.
That, that's like saying which one of your children do you love the most? Okay, fair.
You can pass.
You can pass.
Okay, I'm gonna pass on that one Okay, that's fair.
Uh, which museum could you, uh, visit over and over again? Oh gosh, that's easy.
The Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam, my absolute favorite Yes.
Um, what is something people should never throw away without checking its value first? Hmm.
Again, which of my children do I like the least? Yes, exactly.
Nothing.
Maybe nothing.
The answer is nothing.
Like, I think before you throw anything away, you know, do a little bit of investigating Yeah.
Um, is there something on your bucket list that you still hope to accomplish, either professionally or personally? Um, personally, and everybody knows this about me now 'cause I've made it really clear, that, um, my goal is in about two years to live abroad for an extended period of time.
Not to retire, but to work from abroad, and just kind of, you know, spend three months in different locations.
Yeah.
Oh, that's exciting Yeah, that's what I'm trying to work toward.
Yeah Excellent.
You will, you will achieve that for sure.
Um, what does being cyber savvy mean to you? Well, h- it means being brave and not, um, not digging your head in the sand.
Is that the word? Um, well, because I think that no matter what, whether you're comfortable with it or not, you have to address it and you have to be familiar.
So staying up to date and at least, you know, acknowledging that you don't know what you don't know, and hiring the people who can help you.
But you can't ignore it.
Yeah.
No, that makes sense.
That's it.
It's not worth ignoring.
Yeah, well said.
Andrea, this has been such a fascinating conversation.
I love that your work goes far beyond just putting a price tag on a painting or a family heirloom.
You help people preserve memories, protect legacies, and understand their stories behind the things that matter the most.
Thank you for sharing your journey, your expertise, and your passion for the art world with us today.
And to our listeners, please check out the show notes so you can find out how you can connect with Andrea and learn more about her and her team and how they can help, um, appraise your art and your collectibles.
Andrea, thank you so much for joining today.
I really appreciate it oh, thank you, Rachel.
It's been so fun chatting with you.
Thank you for having me Yeah.
Have a good day.
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