Latest / Outside the Box with Leon Osman and Tony Bellew / Arsenal Defeat, Newcastle Double and Trouble at United | Outside the Box

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Arsenal Defeat, Newcastle Double and Trouble at United | Outside the Box · Outside the Box with Leon Osman and Tony Bellew

• 0:00
  Right, here we are, another late night episode.
• 0:03
  Ozzy, back from London today?
• 0:05
  Yeah, just literally walked in the door.
• 0:07
  Tony told me he had to take my backpack off when I sat down.
• 0:09
  He had to take my backpack off when he finished it.
• 0:12
  Yeah.
• 0:13
  It wasn't your usual carrier bag that you used to bring to the studio, was it?
• 0:16
  No, he stopped being paper-rocky now.
• 0:19
  We're officially saying that now, yeah?
• 0:22
  You bought me a bag, didn't you?
• 0:24
  We're all good.
• 0:25
  Was it the bag that Tony bought you?
• 0:27
  Yeah.
• 0:28
  No.
• 0:28
  No.
• 0:29
  No.
• 0:30
  But don't forget about that.
• 0:31
  I've got my own back since.
• 0:33
  Let's hurry up because I'm on a train first thing in the morning to London and I'm in London all day tomorrow.
• 0:37
  So let's get this through and punch it out right off the pack.
• 0:40
  Because he's done his travelling.
• 0:42
  He can have a sleep in tomorrow.
• 0:43
  I can't.
• 0:43
  I've got to go around to my dad's early in the morning.
• 0:46
  What time are you there for?
• 0:47
  Well, not half five.
• 0:48
  I'll be there by about half seven.
• 0:49
  I'm in the gym at half five.
• 0:50
  I've got to be done for half six and then I've got to be out the house for seven.
• 0:54
  Well, to kick things off... You get up that early anyway.
• 0:56
  That's regular for you.
• 0:57
  Being up late is your problem.
• 0:59
  R5 is a job, day time to get up.
• 1:01
  I usually get up around just 6.30, 6.30.
• 1:04
  Oh, real lying then, yeah?
• 1:06
  Yeah, proper lying.
• 1:07
  Getting up with that time, I just feel sick.
• 1:10
  Thanks for that, Lee.
• 1:10
  Just bubbling even more.
• 1:13
  But anyway, I've got a boat to pick with you because going straight into the Everton Arsenal game, we were sitting here last time and you bring up...
• 1:21
  Oh, for fuck's sake, because he's wrecking me.
• 1:23
  Because he's searching the place.
• 1:25
  I'm going to carry on.
• 1:27
  I'm all right.
• 1:28
  He's got a bone to pick with me.
• 1:30
  I think he's got a bone to pick with his office.
• 1:32
  I know, yeah.
• 1:33
  Anyway.
• 1:34
  I'm out.
• 1:36
  I'm out.
• 1:37
  fucking hell what's up with you don't fall down the stairs are they it's just not fuck out of all four people in his office I was I just went to turn more lights on because it was quite dark in here and I just fell over a couple of wires and my bag actually it dripped over my bag I was like I'm okay thanks for your concern Tom thanks for your concern where there's blaine there's a blaine come on Liam what have I done now
• 1:59
  So you brought up last time that Arsenal haven't scored the set piece all season.
• 2:03
  I know.
• 2:03
  What happens?
• 2:04
  I told you.
• 2:05
  I told you.
• 2:06
  If you need to break something or you need something to like, you haven't scored in a long time, play the player against Everton.
• 2:11
  If he's never scored, just play against Everton.
• 2:13
  Promise you he's going to score.
• 2:15
  And if you haven't scored a free kick all season and you've been doing it for fun last season, just play Everton because I promise you you'll get your first set piece.
• 2:21
  Yeah.
• 2:22
  And just absolute calamity as well.
• 2:25
  And we also debated which centre-back was the best goal-scoring centre-back at Arsenal, and then the two of them ended up scoring anyway.
• 2:30
  Fantastic.
• 2:32
  Yeah, we actually did well.
• 2:33
  We did well against their forwards, and yet we stopped them in a lot of ways.
• 2:38
  It wasn't a pretty game from our point of view.
• 2:40
  It's not one we'll look back on fondly in any way, because we didn't really compete enough or take part enough.
• 2:46
  We did our usual thing.
• 2:47
  We stay in the game.
• 2:48
  We defended.
• 2:48
  Yeah.
• 2:49
  But we'll be furious of all the things to concede from.
• 2:52
  A set piece, which we made a right mess from.
• 2:55
  And then a cross, which actually that's one of the things you'd say to any team.
• 2:59
  If you're going to attack us one way, get wired.
• 3:00
  Put crosses in.
• 3:01
  We've got big centre-halves.
• 3:03
  We'll eat them up all day.
• 3:04
  And they were the two things where we let ourselves down.
• 3:07
  Do you know what?
• 3:08
  Do you know what's mad?
• 3:09
  It's a game where, you know, we take our chances, lads.
• 3:13
  Again, we just take them chances.
• 3:14
  And there's a few of them.
• 3:16
  I know we're all going to go about the TNL body one, but I know you think you should take it round him, but it's not a chance that's really created.
• 3:23
  It's one that's just fell to him in a split second.
• 3:26
  He's got a split second to make a decision.
• 3:29
  And of course, in hindsight, we all go right, he should go round him, but...
• 3:32
  I'm not going to be overly harsh on him there.
• 3:35
  Because that is a split second.
• 3:37
  That's a reaction, and he can never change them reactions of what he's going to do.
• 3:41
  You know, if that's R9, of course he goes around him because that's what his reaction is basis and gets him to do.
• 3:46
  But Tiano Baird, his reaction there and his thing that he does, he was just trying to flick it over him or flick it around him.
• 3:51
  and it's just that's not one that's created so I'm not really giving that one at Tiano Barley's really bad ones this season that's not that's just a snapshot and reaction as what do you think being a footballer um yeah I mean if he flicks that over the goalkeeper then we all say brilliant in hindsight obviously it's football is easy if you can play it in hindsight he takes a touch rise off his line he can go around him the one you're talking about but the disappointing thing from the whole game no I agree sorry that
• 4:19
  It wasn't one of those that we look back and go, he's missed an absolute sitter.
• 4:24
  Because, as in keeping with the game, it was opportunistic, wasn't it?
• 4:29
  It wasn't like we created a big chance and we've cut them open and he's missed one.
• 4:33
  That was him nearly making something out of nothing because it was a header back to the goalkeeper from one of the defenders.
• 4:39
  We never really...
• 4:42
  I do think we've got quite a bit of creative talent on the pitch within the squad this year.
• 4:48
  Certainly a lot more than we've had previously.
• 4:51
  I didn't get to see any of that.
• 4:53
  That was the disappointing thing.
• 4:54
  Yes, we'll expect Arsenal to probably have 60% to 75% of the game.
• 5:01
  They're the champions.
• 5:02
  They're at home.
• 5:03
  They're going to repeat the title.
• 5:05
  They're in Europe.
• 5:06
  They've got a ridiculous plethora of talented players to go...
• 5:10
  But I expect us to have 15 minutes, 20 minutes of real... Good girl.
• 5:14
  ...of pressure.
• 5:15
  We did, though, us, didn't we?
• 5:17
  Didn't we give them a little 15 minutes?
• 5:18
  Tidy George showed glimpses.
• 5:20
  Keenan Juice, we all showed a few glimpses.
• 5:22
  It's just that... Do you know what I feel like?
• 5:24
  And I know this sounds like being a windscreen over time.
• 5:27
  We're not taking our chances, but do we ever get the rub of the green?
• 5:31
  Like, does it... You know when it's Everton, why doesn't one go in off someone's arse for Everton?
• 5:36
  I mean, you know what, I shouldn't say that because Tiano Barry when he hit him on the chest the other week, I mean, we did get the rub of the green there, I can't win you.
• 5:43
  I'm still saying that's skill.
• 5:45
  I'm still saying that's skill.
• 5:46
  Jesus, stop it, I throw the line there, I'm all for him, but come on, that hit him on the chest, he knew nothing about it.
• 5:53
  Always give your striker the benefit of the doubt.
• 5:55
  We never get the rub of the green, do we?
• 5:57
  And it just never falls for us and it just feels like...
• 6:02
  I was arguing with our Corey on the way to work on Saturday.
• 6:05
  Yeah.
• 6:06
  in the car and he's like, Dad, you know, I said, Cor, do you know with four games to go, it was still in our hands for Europe and,
• 6:14
  And he was like, in our court, he was going, well, you know, Dad, what do you think about this one?
• 6:17
  And they said, no, no, listen, son.
• 6:19
  Do you know when you've got four games to go and you've got a case for Europe?
• 6:23
  That means the manager's done a really good job in the season, considering what was expected at the start of the season.
• 6:28
  David Moyes had done a brilliant job.
• 6:30
  And with four games to go, and it's in your hands, by the way, and you're losing a home to, I think it was with Brentford who come and give us a hiding home.
• 6:39
  It was someone like that.
• 6:42
  And at that stage, if we beat Brent, but we go into the European places.
• 6:46
  And at that point, I'm sorry, but no one can be blaming a manager at that stage because you've gone all season doing really well.
• 6:52
  And to be in Europe and to have in your hands with four or five games to go, I'm sorry, but that's the book.
• 7:01
  If then force the players about, and I don't know how or why or tactics or whatever, but,
• 7:06
  The book has to stop with the players at that stage, in my opinion, for last season.
• 7:10
  Why I'm bringing this up now, I don't know.
• 7:12
  That season's gone.
• 7:14
  Haven't we done all this?
• 7:15
  No, we have done all this.
• 7:18
  These things have started to come back up this week off the back of the two losses of Everton fans.
• 7:23
  I know.
• 7:23
  And is Moyes the right man?
• 7:25
  And it's the arguments I have with them, Lee.
• 7:27
  And, you know, I'm on social media and stuff like that.
• 7:28
  And then me lad passing comments about, ooh, what do you think about this manager?
• 7:33
  And I'm saying, no, we've got the right man in charge.
• 7:35
  I said, you know, if we're in Europe this season, everyone would be going, what a job.
• 7:39
  This is great.
• 7:40
  One of the best managers in the world.
• 7:41
  He's fantastic.
• 7:42
  But because we fell apart with four or five or six games to go...
• 7:46
  I can't blame him for that.
• 7:48
  Okay, that was the best part.
• 7:49
  It was all the really good stuff of the last season was all that down to him as well.
• 7:53
  Seven games to go it was.
• 7:54
  We beat Chelsea at home 3-0 and from then we never won a game.
• 7:58
  We drew with Brentford, lost to Liverpool at home, West Ham away.
• 8:03
  Drew with City at home, drew with Palace away.
• 8:06
  Sunderland at home was one of the big ones, wasn't it?
• 8:08
  That was the one, Sunderland, not Brentford.
• 8:10
  We lost to Sunderland.
• 8:12
  They gave us an eye on it.
• 8:12
  So that was the big one.
• 8:13
  But I mean...
• 8:15
  I don't necessarily completely agree that it's on the players at that point.
• 8:18
  You know, the manager's got to find a way of getting you over the line.
• 8:21
  But this is things in the past.
• 8:26
  Maybe the squad wasn't ready.
• 8:28
  Certainly the expectations to get you there.
• 8:29
  No, I agree with Daros.
• 8:30
  I think it's a blessing we didn't get a job.
• 8:32
  I couldn't agree more with what you just said.
• 8:33
  If we would have got you over the past season, then I think you're spot on.
• 8:37
  No, we weren't ready.
• 8:38
  But on the flip side of that is...
• 8:42
  I believe that they would have invested that because they couldn't have possibly left us in Europe with a squad as small as we've got now.
• 8:49
  Do you think that's right?
• 8:50
  I think they would have.
• 8:51
  I think they'd have invested.
• 8:55
  Well, we actually just don't know, do we?
• 8:57
  By all their accounts, by their accounts of what was said, their word was that we were gutted not to get Europe.
• 9:05
  I think that's the club's... That's what they put out there.
• 9:07
  I think Angus put that out there, didn't they, at the end of the season?
• 9:10
  We were absolutely devastated not to get Europe.
• 9:12
  So by saying that, obviously, there would have been a big injection of...
• 9:18
  I'd like to say cash, but I have no good idea what's going on.
• 9:20
  The club needed to strengthen anyway and it didn't materialise in the way that we all expected.
• 9:28
  But we've had a good start to the season anyway up to the international break and up to a point.
• 9:33
  And then, okay, we've lost the last two games
• 9:37
  Is it unexpected for us to have lost those two games?
• 9:39
  No.
• 9:39
  Definitely not away at Arsenal.
• 9:41
  Definitely not at home to Chelsea now, Oz.
• 9:43
  I'm sorry, no.
• 9:44
  Is it ever a shock when you lose at home to Chelsea?
• 9:47
  Not necessarily.
• 9:48
  I was disappointed with the fact that in both of those games...
• 9:53
  I expect to get off my seat at some point.
• 9:55
  I expect to see us have a good chance.
• 9:56
  I expect to see us, you know, really be knocking on the door and be excitement.
• 10:01
  And if we, if it doesn't work out because of the rubber, the green, as you say, Tom, but we were competitive.
• 10:06
  I'd always say, well, fair enough, but I don't think we've played as well.
• 10:10
  as we previously have done.
• 10:12
  So, disappointing.
• 10:14
  Time to get back at it.
• 10:15
  Two really big games.
• 10:17
  Newcastle both times.
• 10:19
  Two really big games coming up in a few days.
• 10:21
  I get that.
• 10:23
  Is there just a question that I've got, and looking at this, and I'm trying to look at it through my little tiny pea brain, but,
• 10:29
  You as a footballer, asking a footballer what you think.
• 10:31
  Do you know when you're just planning out the season and you're looking at the fixture list?
• 10:34
  I mean, as a group, as a squad of players, do you just get together at the start and go, lads, we're looking at this group or set of fixtures at a time?
• 10:42
  And, you know, are you looking at a... Let's all be honest here.
• 10:46
  Chelsea are expected to finish in the Champions League place.
• 10:48
  It's just...
• 10:50
  that's the expectation for a club like Chelsea and we're playing the champions so if you're going in and I'm not saying you're going into games to lose them because we touched upon this last week when you said you know we're not going to Arsenal to lose of course we're not but we're not going there expecting to win we're going there to make it hard for them we can ground out of points I would think that's the expectation
• 11:08
  if you can nick a goal, great, we're going to hang on to it for dear life.
• 11:11
  But do you know when you're looking at teams like Chelsea as their own, Arsenal away, and a lot of fans kept saying the word, it's a free hit.
• 11:21
  And that's why I think certain players, playing certain players, starting certain positions.
• 11:25
  But as a squad and as a group of players, I use looking at the games and I've heard Sean Dyche this week,
• 11:31
  And he talks about the curve.
• 11:33
  You've got to stay online with the curve.
• 11:35
  And the curve was, you get the points that you're expected to get and you keep ticking them things off.
• 11:40
  So he said that, who was he talking about?
• 11:42
  Like Coventry.
• 11:43
  He said, Coventry right now at this stage of the season, they're ahead of the curve.
• 11:47
  He said, but if they lose two more games on the bounce, then they'll be below the curve.
• 11:51
  And the curve genuinely just trends and gets them to 38 to 39 points.
• 11:56
  That's where Coventry is seeking.
• 11:58
  Everton's curve right now was, you know, I would assume it's the top 10.
• 12:03
  So if we keep ticking off these games, as a squad and as a group of players, are you looking at it right and going, you know what, lads?
• 12:11
  Neither the point there, because now we're below expectation of where we're supposed to be at this time.
• 12:17
  You know, there's six, seven games in, you're below that curve.
• 12:20
  Do you pay attention to that kind of thing as a group?
• 12:23
  Yeah, you do really.
• 12:27
  I think the old cliche is you take each game as it comes is still massively at the forefront.
• 12:32
  Because if you look beyond the next game, then you lose track of what you're doing and you go into that next game, seeing it as an opportunity.
• 12:39
  But I've also, it's not happened every season and it's not happened with every manager, but quite often you look at blocks of games and you look at...
• 12:48
  You know, from the start of the season for the first six weeks, if we can pick up at least X amount of points.
• 12:55
  And sometimes you go into it demanding more off your squad.
• 12:59
  Sometimes you go into it giving a realistic look at it.
• 13:02
  And then when you actually found yourselves either below what you're expected or above what you're expected...
• 13:09
  it can change your mindset.
• 13:11
  If you're below what's expected, then you look around and go, we need to find a result from somewhere.
• 13:14
  We've got to dig one out.
• 13:15
  We've got to find a way of getting past it.
• 13:20
  If you're ahead of the curve, which when we finished in the Champions League that time, out of nowhere, we were expected to get relegated.
• 13:27
  and suddenly we're riding high, then you see it as a, well, let's keep going.
• 13:33
  We're ahead of the curve.
• 13:34
  Let's see how far ahead of this curve we can get.
• 13:37
  Let's see how far we can take this.
• 13:39
  You don't necessarily, when you're looking at the curve, go, well, to be honest, we can probably just chill out for a couple of weeks now because we're ahead of the curve.
• 13:46
  Do you know what I mean?
• 13:47
  We'll have to lose a couple so they come back so we get back on the line of the curve.
• 13:50
  You see how far you get.
• 13:52
  And that's probably bringing you in full circle to what you just said before about last season.
• 13:56
  Because we were well ahead of the curve last season, going into the last seven games.
• 14:00
  Well ahead of it.
• 14:01
  And yet we're disappointed that we finished.
• 14:05
  Did they switch off then at the end of last season?
• 14:07
  Did they, as players go, is someone saying to them, listen lads, we're ahead of the curve, we're well ahead.
• 14:14
  So what I was pointing at, basically the finish to last season is, it's on them.
• 14:19
  And I think that's right, just from an outside looking in.
• 14:23
  But like I said, I don't know.
• 14:24
  Players can only tell you that.
• 14:27
  Um, look, it's, it's not as easy to, to step into the modern day dressing room because, you know, talking to Seamus as often as I was able to do says dressing rooms are different now.
• 14:40
  They're not as easy to sort of demand things from and, and, and, and, you know, be rough and ready and in your face as you usually would have to demand as much from each other.
• 14:53
  So.
• 14:53
  Right.
• 14:54
  I can't, I can't tell you exactly the mindset of, of the entirety of the modern day squad.
• 15:00
  I could pinpoint one or two players, maybe three or four players that you go, they'll, they know exactly how to sort of get around the squad and dig it out.
• 15:08
  And they'll know how I was feeling in those situations.
• 15:11
  Um,
• 15:12
  And that's probably why we, maybe as a squad, why we didn't quite get there, if that's what you're saying, it's on the players.
• 15:19
  I find that a little bit harsh, if I'm honest.
• 15:24
  But again, talking this time, I think the players certainly weren't expected to get...
• 15:30
  to that far into the season being unbeaten maybe people would say they expected more points maybe that's the balance because I don't think that's fair I think because we we drew we drew quite a few games at that point but it could have been better we talked about that but we just lost a couple of back-to-back games and Chelsea's always competitive it can go either way Arsenal away
• 15:52
  I can't even remember the last time we won down there.
• 15:54
  I don't think I ever won down there, if I'm being completely honest.
• 15:57
  I think it's 14.
• 15:58
  You were playing that game when Stephen put us on the loop, wasn't he?
• 16:02
  You was in the game and Stephen put us 1-0 up he dinks the ball over was it layman's?
• 16:05
  Yeah.
• 16:07
  Are you really are you really saying Stephen put us 1-0 up in that game?
• 16:11
  Was it 1-1?
• 16:11
  Are you really are you really insulting me in that way?
• 16:15
  I put us 1-0 up in that game I'm sorry.
• 16:18
  I put us 1-0 up in that game with an effort I remember that lovely dink I remember that from a corner.
• 16:25
  From a Landon Donovan corner.
• 16:27
  I put us one in a look with a head there.
• 16:28
  Jesus Christ.
• 16:29
  Who did you beat in the air?
• 16:30
  Because whoever you beat in the air needs investigating.
• 16:33
  Everybody.
• 16:35
  Everybody.
• 16:36
  I've actually got a picture of it.
• 16:37
  I've actually got a picture of it somewhere.
• 16:39
  It's always the little ones who are good at editing, you know, I swear to God, it's always the little terrors.
• 16:43
  And then it's, I wasn't even supposed to be in the box.
• 16:46
  I just, I was literally supposed to be on the edge of the box and then they didn't put anyone outside.
• 16:51
  You know, the old ones, even you don't leave, the opposition don't leave anyone up front.
• 16:54
  You can go do what you want kind of thing.
• 16:55
  So they never left anyone.
• 16:56
  I thought I'm going to get in the box and Landon Donovan on his debut put a corner right on my head.
• 17:02
  Yeah, so we went 1-0 up.
• 17:03
  Steven Pienaar, 2-1 up.
• 17:05
  He put us, because I'd scored an own goal, actually, in the game as well.
• 17:10
  Oh, my God.
• 17:11
  Credited with an own goal.
• 17:13
  It wasn't my fault.
• 17:14
  Only you could do that, you know, score a goal and then cancel your goal out.
• 17:17
  What?
• 17:17
  One of their players, I can't even remember his name, it was like Edison or something like that.
• 17:22
  I had a shot, right?
• 17:23
  It was actually going in.
• 17:24
  It hit me on the ear and went and sent to him out the wrong way.
• 17:27
  Leon, that's a lie.
• 17:28
  That's a lie.
• 17:29
  Leon, that's a lie.
• 17:30
  If it was going in, it would have been classed to his goal.
• 17:33
  It was obviously a mission.
• 17:34
  Yeah, true.
• 17:34
  And you put it in the goal, Leon.
• 17:36
  Don't tell lies.
• 17:38
  As much as you went and put your last goal at Goodison on the telly, I'm going to go find a clip of that.
• 17:42
  Yeah, I want to see it.
• 17:43
  I'm tagging it.
• 17:43
  Liam, be in the call.
• 17:44
  Tagging it on.
• 17:46
  But anyway.
• 17:47
  We don't have the rights to show Aussies, unfortunately, because the Prem will get us.
• 17:50
  We can show Toadies.
• 17:52
  We can't just throw up there.
• 17:53
  We were 2-1 up.
• 17:54
  With minutes to go, and we ended up conceding.
• 17:57
  That's as close as I got.
• 17:58
  We should have won that game.
• 17:59
  What was his name?
• 18:00
  The centre-half?
• 18:01
  Someone, Neil?
• 18:02
  Lucas Neil.
• 18:03
  Lucas Neil played centre-half for us.
• 18:06
  Lucas Neil?
• 18:08
  He played centre-half for us for that game.
• 18:10
  Didn't quite make the block at the end.
• 18:13
  So that's as close as I got.
• 18:14
  So it's always been a tough place to get, and yet to pick points off for us.
• 18:18
  But over the majority of the seasons, when I was playing, we finished fourth, fifth, sixth, fifth, all-em positions.
• 18:23
  So when you look at the course of the season, going down to Highbury or the Emirates and not picking up points doesn't define our season.
• 18:32
  It never has done.
• 18:32
  It would have been a bonus that would have got us ahead of the curve.
• 18:35
  But going into Newcastle, coming up the weekend, we've always done all right against Newcastle.
• 18:40
  Especially at Nice.
• 18:41
  I'm thinking about Govan, to be honest.
• 18:45
  So we've got the home game in the cup and we've got the away game in the league.
• 18:49
  I want to win both.
• 18:52
  But if you could only win one, Tone, which one would be more important to you?
• 18:58
  That's easy in my head.
• 19:01
  Yeah, it is.
• 19:02
  It is easy.
• 19:03
  You know which one I'm going for, so yeah.
• 19:06
  The league or... Don't start, mate.
• 19:08
  You know which one I'm going for.
• 19:10
  You know which one I'm going for.
• 19:11
  You know what I need.
• 19:12
  You know what my kids need.
• 19:13
  You know what Evertonians need.
• 19:16
  So you know what I'm going for.
• 19:17
  If I've got a choice, you know which one I'm going for.
• 19:19
  And that says it all.
• 19:20
  You know what we need as a club, as a fan base, as a family, this family of mine that I've turned them all into these bitter Ebertonians.
• 19:29
  That's what we, you know what we need.
• 19:30
  You're interested to know everyone's thoughts?
• 19:32
  Because if you think about it, though, obviously we want to win a cup.
• 19:36
  And to get through to the next round of the cup puts you, obviously, one step closer.
• 19:41
  But you still have to win.
• 19:43
  I don't know.
• 19:45
  I don't know what round we're in now, so you have to win at least three, maybe four.
• 19:48
  It's the last game, 16.
• 19:50
  I've only got a big couple of draws.
• 19:54
  There's a couple of big guns going this round, isn't there?
• 19:56
  Yeah, there is.
• 19:57
  There's a nasty draw for some.
• 19:59
  So, you know, it's got to happen.
• 20:03
  Yeah, Man City, Brighton, Liverpool, Chelsea, Bournemouth, Villa, Sunderland, Grenfords.
• 20:09
  It's big, great ties.
• 20:11
  Come on, Everton.
• 20:12
  Big club.
• 20:13
  So it gives us a chance.
• 20:14
  Big club.
• 20:15
  Gives us a right chance.
• 20:16
  We've never won the League Cup.
• 20:17
  But three points to us.
• 20:19
  Three points to us getting us back on track actually count.
• 20:21
  Every three points count.
• 20:23
  You've seen that come at the end of the season.
• 20:24
  So all we want to do is win the next game.
• 20:26
  Just win the next game.
• 20:27
  That's it.
• 20:28
  And then we'll focus on the Cup when we're ready.
• 20:30
  So do we go...
• 20:31
  do we go I'm not entertaining this I'm not entertaining I'm asking you as a manager do you go full strength team for both and if so every single time what is your full strength team because we've got a lot of talk that Dibblin should be in and George should just start anyway and that and that
• 20:50
  Keenan needs to rotate and he needs to rest because he's playing all the middle.
• 20:53
  Come on, Keenan needs to rest.
• 20:55
  Does that mean he's off of the international break?
• 20:57
  Don't stab me off.
• 20:58
  And Keenan needs to rest.
• 21:00
  He's flying.
• 21:00
  So here you go.
• 21:02
  So what's your full team?
• 21:03
  Does the Hackney deserve a game?
• 21:04
  I don't know about that.
• 21:05
  But Keenan's got to be on the pitch, mate.
• 21:06
  Keenan has to start every single week of the game.
• 21:08
  And if he's tired, I'm going to have to tell him, hey, lad, there's night all here.
• 21:14
  When you're tired, you have a little kip.
• 21:15
  And when you have a rest, have a good night.
• 21:17
  I don't think that...
• 21:19
  I don't think they can have Nytol.
• 21:20
  I'm pretty sure.
• 21:22
  We didn't used to be able to have Lemsips when we had a bloody cold.
• 21:26
  I know if you remember us.
• 21:27
  I'm telling you, there's so many drugs out there you're not allowed to have.
• 21:30
  Yeah, but if he's tired, have a Nytol, and if he's not, then be ready to fight and to go for the people.
• 21:35
  He won't be allowed a Nytol.
• 21:37
  I've got night holes here two of them right on the end of these Sue the fence we ain't even know he's just he's brilliant this one's called night and this one's called all this one's called night and this one's called good
• 21:51
  yeah fair enough good Knight Leon I know I had to spell him wrong I know I said him wrong at first doesn't matter you had to back to front yeah I did I'm back to front that's what I am that's what years of sport and everything football club have done to me watching you all these years right ultimately he is a seriously important player for our football club and I'm sorry but he's one of the first names on the team sheet for me he's as important as Jordan as Taki as Jimmy as
• 22:20
  There's players who are non-negotiables, in my opinion.
• 22:24
  Like, they've just got to be on the pitch.
• 22:26
  Can he play all the minutes of all the games?
• 22:28
  Of course he can.
• 22:29
  Do you run him down?
• 22:30
  Do you give him a little rest?
• 22:32
  No, no, no.
• 22:33
  If he goes on international duty, I get what you're saying.
• 22:35
  If he was part of that international squad, he does need a break right now.
• 22:38
  Yeah, I agree.
• 22:39
  But he wasn't, so he doesn't.
• 22:41
  And that's my thought process.
• 22:43
  So is Garner okay to get a rest?
• 22:45
  And if so, say you bring Hackney in, now you're now telling me that, now you're telling me, is this your full-strength team?
• 22:51
  And we want to get through against Newcastle, but we want to play our full-strength team, but are we giving... Because Hackney deserves a goal.
• 22:57
  Jared Brantway's out now because these fucking stupid people fuck it does my head big player you need big player Jared Brantway big player and now they're ruining them out because whatever you know protocols they're taking stuff like that start me off on these protocols punch them in the air for the living all my life didn't he knock on the end didn't he play on to the end of the game
• 23:18
  Yeah.
• 23:18
  He did, yeah?
• 23:19
  Yeah.
• 23:19
  And then they decided he was...
• 23:21
  They might have checked him and trained him now, mightn't he?
• 23:24
  He should have had to come off.
• 23:25
  Yeah, they checked him and trained him on the Monday.
• 23:28
  Yeah.
• 23:28
  And then they gave him two weeks.
• 23:29
  I was concussed at least three times on the pitch.
• 23:32
  Don't start me off, mate.
• 23:33
  I've been concussed three times in one fight and carried on.
• 23:36
  Don't start me off.
• 23:38
  Piss me off tonight.
• 23:39
  Not tonight.
• 23:40
  Fucking start me off concussed.
• 23:43
  You don't remember?
• 23:43
  No, I don't exactly.
• 23:46
  What?
• 23:47
  I was there for a few of them.
• 23:48
  Yeah, and probably laughing your tits off while I was concussed.
• 23:50
  I didn't know where I was.
• 23:52
  I talked to you after it won, and I'm not sure you knew who I was.
• 23:54
  No.
• 23:56
  Still don't know you, you little shit.
• 24:00
  I'm telling you now, no.
• 24:02
  Big players, big players are missing.
• 24:05
  So I don't know the answer to your question, but I just know there's players who are non-negotiables to play on that pitch.
• 24:10
  There's some really important players for us, really important players.
• 24:14
  So I think Hayden Hackney could become one of them players.
• 24:17
  The more he plays, I think the more he adjusts and acclimatises to the Premier League, I think he will become one of them because I think he's very, very good.
• 24:25
  I think the same at Tariq George.
• 24:29
  There's so much potential in the squad, and that's what's so frustrating.
• 24:33
  And, you know, we're missing Jack Grealish the weekend, but Tyreek George does a fantastic job.
• 24:38
  So it shows you that it is.
• 24:39
  I don't want to say the word strength in depth, but, you know, it's looking up for us on a creative perspective, on a creative front.
• 24:47
  I think it's looking up for us.
• 24:48
  Do we need more goals?
• 24:49
  Absolutely, yeah.
• 24:50
  And I think that'll come.
• 24:51
  But defensively, I think we're pretty compact and solid when we get our start, man.
• 24:55
  Like, I think we've got us...
• 24:57
  13 or 14 players who you go you know what if these are if they're there every week I'm not worried and I haven't said that for quite a while about Edmonton Football Club where you've got 13 or 14 players and you go
• 25:11
  these can create goals I think you know if it falls to TN he is going to slot or whatever but if it's a creative bunch here and then there's a group of lads who know how to defend they really do Taki Jared Michael's getting better and and Maitland Niles is a is a right back who's trying and and
• 25:34
  I can see he's a player.
• 25:38
  He's going to take a bit of time to adjust to the Everton way and stuff like that, but I'm happy because there's a base there.
• 25:45
  And I say we've got the best keeper in the world, so I don't even need to question him.
• 25:48
  He's a nutter, but he's one of the best keepers in the world.
• 25:53
  Ozzy, were you alluding to that you would rest people for one of the Newcastle games?
• 25:59
  Fucking right he was.
• 26:00
  I don't want to hear exactly what he thinks about wrestling.
• 26:02
  Don't you dare hold back now because I've said my piece.
• 26:05
  No, I'm just making the point that... No, you're not.
• 26:08
  Stop it, Oz.
• 26:09
  Say it now.
• 26:10
  I'm making the point that it's not easy being a manager when...
• 26:14
  There is a lot of clamour to play your best team all the time, but then also at the same time, a big chunk of the fan base, which we're all part of, that are saying he deserves a game, he needs a game, he should be playing, he should be playing.
• 26:27
  Because, you know, I think I read the stat today that...
• 26:33
  You know, we've pretty much had the same midfield for the majority of the season.
• 26:37
  Harrison Armstrong is one of two teenagers, maybe three teenagers, that started every game in the Premier League this season.
• 26:44
  Good on him.
• 26:45
  He's played a lot of minutes.
• 26:46
  Yeah, good on him.
• 26:47
  But does he need a little bit of a mental rest?
• 26:51
  Does he just keep on going?
• 26:52
  Do you play him?
• 26:54
  I mean, him and Hackney, as I said, played well in the first game.
• 26:57
  We're gone.
• 26:58
  So Gardner's played an awful lot of minutes.
• 27:00
  We're all talking that Dibblin needs a game.
• 27:03
  But if he makes that change, then suddenly he's not playing his strongest team.
• 27:07
  What game are you doing that in then, Oz?
• 27:08
  Are you doing it?
• 27:09
  Okay, just a simple one here, just a quick one.
• 27:12
  There's a word that you use there that says that he can play as many minutes as... Whatever you want him to play, he can play.
• 27:18
  You know what the word you use that is?
• 27:20
  Teenager.
• 27:20
  Go on.
• 27:21
  That's the word you used, teenager.
• 27:23
  If you're a teenager, you can play any amount of games you want.
• 27:27
  You know why?
• 27:28
  Because you wake up the next day and none of your body's sore.
• 27:32
  And that's what happens when you're a teenager.
• 27:34
  He's got a point.
• 27:35
  I remember being a teenager and I never felt a fucking little bit of pain in my life.
• 27:39
  I never felt any aches in me body, any aches in me feet, any aches in me fucking hands.
• 27:44
  You are just bulletproof when you're a teenager.
• 27:46
  So you play him fucking 150 games a season and he doesn't feel any cramp.
• 27:50
  It's funny you said that because from, you said you're bulletproof and you can, from 16 till 20, I was hardly fit.
• 28:00
  So it's hard to me to, it's hard to me to actually imagine.
• 28:04
  You had them veterans showing you the wrong way of life above you.
• 28:08
  That's why.
• 28:09
  No, that was, that was my knee injuries and my operations.
• 28:11
  I was just constantly, I must've had, I had so many operations on my knee and my, and then my ankle.
• 28:15
  And then.
• 28:16
  Oz, the way he lived today, Oz, imagine if you had the science of today when you were there, when you were there that teenager.
• 28:23
  And Al, this isn't 250 years ago when we're talking about the Copernicus and, you know, someone discovering the bloody world goes around the sun.
• 28:32
  But you know what I mean, the science that's involved in football.
• 28:35
  The science that's involved in football now, Oz.
• 28:38
  is massive and I don't care now don't get me wrong here's the worst part about it it's the science that's saying to rest these fucking teenagers that's what frightens me that's the frighten part when you know they don't need it if you go and ask Anderson Armstrong hey kid do you think you need the rest he'd look at you and go are you pissed
• 28:56
  That's what he'd probably say.
• 28:58
  I mean, if he's got a bit about him.
• 28:59
  And he definitely has.
• 29:00
  Do you know what I want left from Harrison Armstrong?
• 29:02
  And I'm not saying I'm demanding it from him yet, because he's still young.
• 29:05
  I want him to get...
• 29:06
  He needs to start scoring goals for me.
• 29:08
  He's done so well.
• 29:09
  He needs...
• 29:10
  He's done so well.
• 29:11
  That's a big shout at us.
• 29:11
  And he's shown so much.
• 29:13
  Is that his position?
• 29:15
  I don't want him to get me a goal.
• 29:16
  I don't want him to start getting on his coaching.
• 29:18
  He's not the deepest midfielder, is he?
• 29:20
  No, he gets box to box.
• 29:21
  He's having shots.
• 29:23
  He's getting up.
• 29:24
  And this is an actual compliment to him.
• 29:27
  This is credit to him.
• 29:28
  This is not me saying, well, he's just about treading water.
• 29:33
  No, he's not.
• 29:35
  If he scores goals, this is me going the opposite way and saying he's doing so well.
• 29:39
  He's showing that he could be such a good midfielder
• 29:42
  that he just now needs to add goals to his game.
• 29:44
  He just needs to just find that.
• 29:45
  He can be the player.
• 29:46
  He could go and be the difference.
• 29:48
  That's what I see.
• 29:50
  He could get you eight goals a season in the league.
• 29:53
  Maybe even 10 from midfield, the way he joins in, arriving late.
• 29:56
  Especially when we need it, because obviously you've only got one striker.
• 30:00
  I think he has had the freedom to get forward.
• 30:02
  And you're talking about his teenage legs.
• 30:05
  He's got the ability to get beyond the striker and then back beyond the defenders and get forward again, all in the same minute.
• 30:11
  I agree with you.
• 30:12
  I shout to our kids on the weekend, on the Sundays, and I shout, which one of you wants to be the difference?
• 30:17
  Go and show me which one wants to be the difference, and I encourage them.
• 30:20
  And he's one of them.
• 30:21
  He could be the difference.
• 30:23
  Get on the ball, lad, and have a go.
• 30:24
  Go and be the difference.
• 30:25
  Be the winner.
• 30:26
  Be the hero.
• 30:27
  You know what I mean?
• 30:28
  So, yeah, it's a good shout, that was.
• 30:30
  Fair shout.
• 30:31
  Because he's definitely good enough.
• 30:33
  Yeah.
• 30:34
  Yeah, definitely.
• 30:35
  Do you play Tiano Barry again?
• 30:37
  Do you just keep flogging him?
• 30:38
  Do you just keep him out there?
• 30:40
  I think you've got to play your strongest team in the cup game, is what I would say.
• 30:45
  I think... Well, hey... No, no, no.
• 30:48
  Stop.
• 30:48
  Wait, is it Sunday?
• 30:49
  Is it Saturday, Tuesday?
• 30:50
  Are you saying it's Saturday, Wednesday?
• 30:52
  No, it's Thursday.
• 30:53
  Thursday and then Monday.
• 30:56
  No one needs to break me.
• 30:57
  Do you play that team's voice?
• 31:00
  I agree.
• 31:02
  If you win on Thursday...
• 31:04
  if it's not broke, don't fix it.
• 31:06
  Go and put them back out there.
• 31:07
  You're not, you're talking about as if like, they're a, they're a pack of our fellas and they're one walking stick and going on the pitch and they're like, fucking hell lads, we fucked when we played on Thursday, you know, you're supreme athletes.
• 31:17
  Don't piss me off.
• 31:18
  What are you saying?
• 31:19
  Supreme athletes.
• 31:20
  Am I,
• 31:20
  Am I imagining my 35-year-old body trying to do Thursday Monday?
• 31:24
  Is that what we're saying?
• 31:26
  By the way, I know I'm not 35 anymore.
• 31:28
  I'm just putting myself back in the last game.
• 31:30
  Do you know the senior players that we've got in this squad are really good athletes.
• 31:34
  Tark, he's a top athlete.
• 31:37
  Built really well.
• 31:38
  I get it.
• 31:40
  Maybe he could be someone of his stature and his age, could be feeling it.
• 31:43
  But I'm not going to lie.
• 31:46
  I wouldn't worry about playing Tarky Thursday Sunday because it's players like him who are soldiers.
• 31:52
  Is it all right if we...
• 31:54
  Does the gaffer go to him and go, how do you feel?
• 31:57
  Is that what the gaffer's going to do?
• 31:58
  Maybe just because he wants to... Maybe because he just wants to...
• 32:02
  But I'm more concerned that he might play on Sunday rather than Monday.
• 32:06
  Because we play Monday, mate.
• 32:07
  Thursday, Monday.
• 32:08
  Sorry, Thursday, Monday.
• 32:09
  It'd be an issue if we keep playing Thursday, there's a Sunday.
• 32:13
  So, Thursday, Monday.
• 32:14
  So, is the gaffer going to him?
• 32:16
  Tarks, how are you?
• 32:17
  And if he is, you know his answer, don't you?
• 32:18
  Tarks, he's going, apps, full great gaffer.
• 32:21
  Well, he's one of their players.
• 32:23
  That's what I'm saying.
• 32:24
  Old school.
• 32:24
  Not everyone's like that, us.
• 32:26
  Even if you feel rubbish, you just say, I'm fine.
• 32:28
  Yeah.
• 32:29
  You don't even, you could be 80%, you still say, strap me up, coach.
• 32:32
  Yeah, but not everyone's like him, as we know.
• 32:36
  No.
• 32:37
  So what I will say about these two games coming up is... You quickly said no then and just moved on.
• 32:43
  Moving on.
• 32:45
  One of these.
• 32:45
  Do you know what we were at just while we were on this?
• 32:47
  We were at Goodison Rides for the game all over.
• 32:50
  And I swear to God, I give King a good going over in that dressing room.
• 32:54
  Pardon?
• 32:55
  I said, King, I give Louis Sahar a good going over in the dressing room.
• 32:58
  Oh, I heard you.
• 32:59
  It just sounded funny.
• 33:00
  Mate, I was giving him an absolute good note.
• 33:02
  I knew you'd say something dirty like that.
• 33:04
  Why do you have to say it?
• 33:06
  You've put it out there now, you dirty, filthy man.
• 33:09
  You're a bad person.
• 33:10
  You know, you're a dirty man.
• 33:11
  I just said it sounded funny.
• 33:13
  I said, King, please just put the boots on and you only need to be on this pitch for five minutes and you can make a difference.
• 33:19
  You know what his words were?
• 33:20
  I'm not right.
• 33:22
  Just definitely, just not right.
• 33:24
  Are you talking about this game a couple of weeks back or his career?
• 33:27
  Yeah, I could listen.
• 33:28
  No.
• 33:31
  The amount of times I've sat with that boy asking him, like, if he's not 100%, he's not going on that pitch.
• 33:37
  Yeah.
• 33:39
  How many times have you been 100% in your life?
• 33:42
  Less than five, and they were all my worst games.
• 33:45
  I've said that before.
• 33:46
  Every time I felt perfect, I had a nightmare.
• 33:49
  I don't know whether I just concentrate on too much, overthinking it, I don't know.
• 33:53
  He used to talk to me in that ice bath and I would I would beg him to play because you just know if he's on a pitch he can be the difference in he is how good was he yeah but I played you have to be 100% he was one of those ones you have you have to put your arm around and convince to play because when he was out there one of the best you play with honestly he was he was frightening on his day absolutely how many more players was he like him as
• 34:21
  a lot more towards the end yeah yeah there was some players in the modern day now right when you're saying that's okay we're going Monday Thursday we win Monday and the 11 players like of the 11 players without a doubt he's starting his best on Sunday on Monday he's starting his best on Monday
• 34:41
  In the league.
• 34:42
  So the league's on Monday.
• 34:43
  So basically we play this Thursday.
• 34:44
  You know how the gaffer thinks and you know his priorities is always the league.
• 34:47
  But the cup game is before that.
• 34:49
  So we play the cup game on Thursday and then they have the weekend off, kind of.
• 34:54
  Well, they have a weekend without playing before the Monday night game.
• 34:57
  So the cup game comes first and the cup game's at home.
• 35:00
  Right?
• 35:01
  So that's why I'll go back to, I think it is a moment for Dibblin because if I'm giving Dibblin a game, the young player who has a certain character and a certain...
• 35:10
  feel about the game.
• 35:12
  If I'm giving him anything, I want him to give him his time at home.
• 35:15
  I want him to give him his time when the crowd's on his side rather than against him.
• 35:19
  That they're being encouraged rather than feeling he's in the opposition's cauldron.
• 35:23
  So actually, if I'm doing anything, I'm starting Dibblin on Thursday.
• 35:27
  I really am on that left-hand side.
• 35:29
  I might start George.
• 35:30
  He deserves a start anyway.
• 35:31
  Yeah.
• 35:32
  I never thought about it like that.
• 35:33
  That's a proper play, I think, and when you say that, Oz, because I would never have thought of something like that.
• 35:37
  Yeah, but there are sometimes...
• 35:40
  Newcastle away on a Monday night.
• 35:42
  Newcastle can be quite an, not an intimidating place, but they make a hell of a noise and they try and get after here and they try and, you know, in the same way that we try and use our home advantage to make a difference.
• 35:56
  So if you're under pressure and it's backs to the wall and you find, oh, we've got to dig in for 10 minutes,
• 36:00
  and you don't want to give it, you want to give it to players that are protected and not lose it in bad positions, Dibble might not be the person for a way at Newcastle on a Monday night.
• 36:09
  They've just had a big win as well, haven't they?
• 36:11
  Yeah, but at home, actually, go and express yourself, young man.
• 36:14
  Go get the ball.
• 36:15
  Go show us what you're capable of.
• 36:17
  He showed enough that he gets back.
• 36:18
  So, I'm probably playing Dibble in the home game.
• 36:21
  I might...
• 36:23
  it's tough because we want to say so I probably would play Tien or just keep playing him until I can't play him anymore.
• 36:28
  You can't do.
• 36:29
  You can't start.
• 36:29
  I would, yeah.
• 36:30
  But at the same time, I think Hackney deserves a game.
• 36:33
  I really do think he deserves a game.
• 36:35
  So maybe I'm leaving James Garner out for this game just because he had missed a big chunk in the summer.
• 36:43
  He came back.
• 36:43
  He's played his way back to fitness.
• 36:45
  Now he's pretty much there.
• 36:47
  Let's just let you recharge your batteries for a second.
• 36:50
  Make sure your body's on there.
• 36:51
  Trained them on that international break.
• 36:52
  Could have done with them staying home.
• 36:55
  What?
• 36:57
  But by saying that, sorry, before we move on quickly.
• 37:00
  By saying that, if I do make those changes, I still class this as a full-strength team.
• 37:05
  I don't want people to say, you've not put your full-strength team out.
• 37:09
  You've not put your full-strength team out.
• 37:10
  You make changes.
• 37:11
  You've not put your full-strength team out.
• 37:12
  And I'm like...
• 37:12
  Hang on a minute.
• 37:13
  We've got...
• 37:14
  He's making changes to win the game.
• 37:15
  I'm making a couple of changes here.
• 37:17
  That is strong enough to win the game.
• 37:19
  He's got 13 or 14 first-team starting players, and that's the problem.
• 37:23
  So some of them...
• 37:24
  If you've got 14 first-team starting players, they can't all start.
• 37:27
  So some have got to come in, some have got to come out.
• 37:29
  And rotation is a real thing.
• 37:32
  You've got to rotate.
• 37:34
  I suppose sometimes what people don't take into consideration is, is the manager's going to pick the best team that he thinks is going to go against that team he's playing against.
• 37:42
  That has to come into effect.
• 37:45
  And I think a part of that was done on Saturday against Arsenal.
• 37:50
  I think there's a reason why he played Tyreek George.
• 37:53
  He probably thought, you're going to give me more going backwards than Jack.
• 37:57
  Jack was ill. Jack was sick.
• 37:59
  Jack was ill, wasn't he?
• 38:00
  He could have thought that.
• 38:01
  Or there's a reason why he played Merlin role.
• 38:06
  There's reasons why he does the things that he does.
• 38:08
  And it's not only him and his team know the reasons why they do them.
• 38:12
  And if we're all being honest, he knows more than us.
• 38:15
  He knows his players better than us.
• 38:16
  He knows the team more than us.
• 38:17
  He knows how they're going to perform better than we do.
• 38:20
  So I just think to myself...
• 38:23
  Like, if you've got 14 players, you go, right, I can start at these any day of the week because they're all really good players.
• 38:31
  It's just them finding a balance, isn't it?
• 38:33
  Finding the chemistry that's right between them 14 players.
• 38:36
  I honestly feel we're, again, two full-backs and at least one striker away from really competing.
• 38:44
  consistently over over the course of over the course of a season and if you can manage to get them and you can compete over the course of a season you can start trusting certain things and you can start trusting the fullbacks they don't need extra cover or whatever you can start trusting your wide man playing more exciting football then success brings success so that's what always happens if you start
• 39:08
  by doing that, getting on the cusp of Europe, getting into Europe, getting on the edge of Europe, suddenly then you can buy and bring in more players.
• 39:15
  You're a more pleasant place to go.
• 39:17
  New stadium, great fan base, great location, playing in Europe.
• 39:22
  And then you have to snowball it
• 39:24
  From there.
• 39:25
  But we've got the makings of a young, hungry...
• 39:27
  The Armoured Field is young.
• 39:29
  It's hungry.
• 39:30
  It's got a good bit of experience in there with Keenan as well.
• 39:34
  You've got a base.
• 39:35
  You're two wide men, potentially, George and Dibblin.
• 39:38
  They've got a young, hungry base there.
• 39:40
  If you can just...
• 39:41
  not teach them how to win, but help them be the part of bringing success, regular success, finishing no less than, I don't know, over the next year or two, eight, seven, six, and you can start to really get momentum.
• 39:55
  Then they will now expect that every single year.
• 39:58
  You're going to have five or six years minimum with those players I've said.
• 40:03
  You can start to bring in this momentum
• 40:05
  expectation from themselves to finish up the league and then you can start bringing in an even better squad on top of that so yeah it's important these kind of games this kind of make potential cup success can be important That's where consistency with a manager is key for me because that consistency with a manager is key especially when a squad is as young as this and a squad that gets used to I just think the worst thing that could happen will be to change a manager
• 40:35
  I really do.
• 40:36
  I just think it's madness.
• 40:39
  You're getting a squad and it's building, it's building.
• 40:41
  What Ozzy's saying is you're building the foundations.
• 40:43
  These seasons now that we're in, last season, if we can better from last season on to this season.
• 40:48
  So we start getting anywhere around that.
• 40:51
  Top eight, they're building blocks.
• 40:54
  And the last thing you want to do, mate, is bring a new face in and he's having certain players, he's not having certain players, and it just becomes a mess.
• 41:02
  I can't take it anymore.
• 41:04
  It just becomes a mess.
• 41:05
  Honest to God, I can't see the revolving door anymore.
• 41:08
  I genuinely can't.
• 41:09
  I can't take it.
• 41:10
  I mean, I'm laughing my head off at United, but it's a sad situation in football, mate.
• 41:18
  Like, they can't sack him, I'm sorry.
• 41:20
  That's the manager who got them Champions League football when he was wrote off last season.
• 41:25
  I mean, seeing what Bruno Fernandes is coming out and saying, mate, listen, mate, you ended up one of the players of the season last season.
• 41:32
  Did he actually win players, players of the season?
• 41:34
  If he did, mate, that's on Michael Carrick.
• 41:38
  That's on Michael Carrick, mate.
• 41:40
  You need to say to that fella, thank you.
• 41:43
  Thank you, because you... Obviously, you go on the pitch and do the damage.
• 41:46
  Yes, you do.
• 41:47
  But ultimately, lad, he picked you up, that manager, because you were in the doldrums.
• 41:51
  You were going absolutely nowhere till Carrick.
• 41:53
  Do you think it was the right appointment to start with, though?
• 41:56
  I don't know if I think it... No, I think it's always a danger, Lee, put my fellow in interim charge.
• 42:01
  Either just employ a manager or don't.
• 42:03
  Them interim jobs, right, are the silliest things I've ever seen in my life.
• 42:07
  Just give them the fucking job or don't give them the job.
• 42:09
  Simple.
• 42:10
  But you have to say it was... Nah, it's madness, Ross.
• 42:13
  You have to say it was the right...
• 42:15
  It is the right... ...appointment, Liam, because he took them from a team that was floundering last season and he got them into the Champions League by the end of the season.
• 42:23
  So he did.
• 42:24
  It's the right appointment.
• 42:25
  He did, I just feel that United need...
• 42:28
  I just feel like the United job is such a big, big job.
• 42:31
  But he done it, Lee.
• 42:33
  He done it.
• 42:34
  He got them Champions League.
• 42:35
  He done the job.
• 42:36
  For a short period of time.
• 42:37
  No, it's not a short period, Lee.
• 42:38
  It was nearly a full season there.
• 42:40
  Three quarters of the season.
• 42:41
  I don't know.
• 42:42
  I don't know when did he come in I feel like United have made this mistake in the past yeah but they've gone and given it to someone they've gone and given it to someone they've given it to an ex-player interim instead of going and maybe getting an Eddie Howe who is a state manager he wasn't available he might have been if they've asked the question
• 43:01
  Yeah, but he went He went leaving Newcastle At that time, mate He was Nah He was He went available Not a chance I just feel like It's like a go-to thing It's like, oh He's the next United Ex-player Who we can, you know Do you know if they Was going to They've got to commit To a manager And stand by them Because, mate Their squad is toxic I do agree with that I do agree with that I just don't know If Carrick was the right Appointment to start with I know he did really well That's why I'd say The interim's a joke
• 43:25
  Well, the owners are on a conveyor belt of, how is it described, a Dutch...
• 43:34
  Old school Dutch fella, which was Van Gaal, followed by Jose Mourinho, Portuguese, followed by Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, which is an ex-player to come bring them back.
• 43:44
  Then followed by, is it Ralf Ragnik?
• 43:47
  Ralf Ragnik first, that was a German.
• 43:49
  Yeah, Ralf Ragnik.
• 43:50
  Then, then, yeah.
• 43:52
  So then they went, Ten Hag, which is a Dutch fella.
• 43:54
  Hmm.
• 43:55
  Then they went Ameren, Portuguese.
• 43:58
  Then they went old school again, which is all he goes to, which is Michael Carrick.
• 44:02
  If they appoint a German guy next, they've literally gone through the conveyor belt twice.
• 44:05
  They've made the same mistake again and again and again.
• 44:09
  They're on the same circle.
• 44:11
  But there's a player who's been there through all this.
• 44:13
  Fernandes has been there through all of this.
• 44:15
  At what point, and the player, Rashford's been there through all of this.
• 44:18
  At what point do the players just go, you know what, that's the Sonners.
• 44:22
  Well, if we're looking at that, first of all, a captain can't come out and make those kind of statements.
• 44:29
  The first thing, the part that the Martinez shouldn't be saying that.
• 44:32
  But you know why he said that, don't you?
• 44:34
  And he shouldn't be saying it.
• 44:34
  You know why he said that.
• 44:35
  He was shaking his head when he got brought off.
• 44:38
  He was furious that he got brought off.
• 44:39
  Martinez looks like he wants out the club and wants to leave in January.
• 44:42
  That's the quickest way to facet it.
• 44:43
  Oh, no, not Martinez.
• 44:44
  We knew why he was.
• 44:45
  So I'm talking about Martinez.
• 44:46
  That happened last week.
• 44:46
  And then...
• 44:48
  After Martinez.
• 44:49
  So after Martinez.
• 44:50
  But the thing with Martinez, he directed it at the hierarchy of the club.
• 44:53
  He protected the bubble.
• 44:55
  Protected the manager?
• 44:56
  It's a sacred thing.
• 44:58
  It really is to protect this bubble that you're working in, to protect the players, your mates, your manager, and then you have your arguments inside, and you sort it out inside, and you get after it, and you do what you do.
• 45:08
  And like, kind of like Spurs have done.
• 45:10
  Spurs have had a lot of issues, and yet they look like they've had a good in-house situation.
• 45:14
  argument, talk about it.
• 45:15
  The manager even took them away for a few days.
• 45:17
  They've come back.
• 45:18
  They look like a new animal.
• 45:19
  They're ready to go.
• 45:20
  They've sorted the differences out.
• 45:23
  You can't affect this bubble that comes in the training ground and that includes players, staff, and I'm talking all staff, right down to the kitchen staff and the guys that clean the boots.
• 45:34
  Everybody is part of this bubble and you cannot...
• 45:38
  put a knife in that.
• 45:39
  You can't, you can't affect that.
• 45:41
  Whereas Bruno, not only as a player, he's a captain of the club.
• 45:45
  Regardless if you agree with what he says, regardless if he's frustrated, he cannot come out and implode that bubble that they're working in as captain.
• 45:56
  I mean,
• 45:57
  I couldn't believe it when I was seeing all that.
• 46:00
  Do you think he was right to drop him?
• 46:02
  I was watching that game.
• 46:03
  No, he's right to drop more than that.
• 46:04
  But as you've seen him, I was watching that game and I don't know how I ended up coming across it, but I did.
• 46:08
  And when he gets brought off, he walks around the pitch, I think he was doing, and he's shaking his head at being brought off.
• 46:13
  He's furious.
• 46:14
  And you can see he's set about and done that interview and he's thrown him right under the bus.
• 46:20
  Now, that's not a good mentality to have.
• 46:24
  Because you're the captain, mate.
• 46:26
  Go in and have it with the manager yourself privately.
• 46:29
  To throw him under the bus like that is heavy, especially after the season you've had with him of where he's come from and he's got you back into the Champions League.
• 46:37
  The big tournaments that you want to be playing... Because if we all be honest, right, if United never qualified for the Champions League last season, I don't genuinely think Bruno Fernandes would be there.
• 46:45
  He could have went to a bigger club.
• 46:47
  He'd have went somewhere else.
• 46:48
  Especially after the World Cup.
• 46:49
  Definitely.
• 46:49
  I think he'd have gone somewhere else and he'd have got takers.
• 46:52
  But because they're in the Champions League...
• 46:54
  He's probably had an upgrade or whatever on his contract.
• 46:56
  I don't know.
• 46:57
  I'm just speaking out loud thinking, once again, my tiny pea brain.
• 47:00
  But I just think to myself, you've thrown him under the bus, lad, and that's bang out of order.
• 47:06
  Why are they in a position where players can do that?
• 47:09
  And I don't agree with what Bruno has done at all.
• 47:12
  I think it's shocking.
• 47:13
  Player power does, but it does seem to do so at Man United more so than it does anywhere else.
• 47:17
  The mad thing is he didn't do it on social media.
• 47:20
  He did it to an interview, didn't he?
• 47:22
  Didn't he do it like public?
• 47:23
  It's not like he did it in the modern day social media.
• 47:26
  He just came out.
• 47:27
  He was raging.
• 47:29
  He came out raging.
• 47:30
  The thing is, the show I did today, I can look at...
• 47:35
  This season in general, a bit about last season.
• 47:36
  So Manchester United were a counter-attacking team, really.
• 47:39
  That's how they set up.
• 47:40
  That's how they play against all the big teams.
• 47:42
  And to do so, you have to sit off, play from a good shape, and then you spring into action when you win the ball back.
• 47:48
  Look at the amount of games this season.
• 47:50
  He doesn't seem to enjoy it.
• 47:51
  He wants to go press.
• 47:53
  And he keeps jumping to press on his own or with one more guy.
• 47:57
  And then they keep getting popped round and play easy.
• 47:59
  And he's putting his hands up saying...
• 48:01
  why is no one pressing with me?
• 48:03
  It looks like the team aren't setting up to press.
• 48:06
  So they're at odds with each other.
• 48:08
  He's getting very frustrated.
• 48:10
  He's come out and made the statement that he has done and, well, they're all in trouble.
• 48:17
  But did you see after the game, obviously, Michael Carrick dropped him, put him on the bench, didn't put him on at all, despite the result going the way it did.
• 48:25
  They were getting bumped.
• 48:26
  Brought the young kids on, brought Xerxes on.
• 48:29
  And you didn't know what the reaction was going to be.
• 48:31
  And then after the game, they did the lap.
• 48:33
  Michael Carrick did a whole lap of the ground to say thank you and sorry and blah, blah, blah.
• 48:37
  And they sang his name.
• 48:39
  They cheered his name, Michael Carrick and all this.
• 48:42
  And then as soon as he went down the tunnel, they booed the players and started pointing at them and shouting at them.
• 48:47
  Man United fan base are making themselves very clear about whose side they're on in that situation.
• 48:54
  They know football, I've no fans, mate.
• 48:55
  They've worked at some great times, them fuckers, and they know football.
• 48:59
  And that's good on them.
• 49:00
  I didn't see that, but good on them for doing that.
• 49:03
  Well, at this point, as it been a decision made, what would you do?
• 49:07
  What would you do?
• 49:09
  At this point, no decision has been made, yeah.
• 49:11
  As Manchester United, as characters?
• 49:13
  Yeah, as Manchester United board.
• 49:15
  Not characters, yeah, as Manchester United board.
• 49:17
  Do you go, okay, we do keep them?
• 49:20
  Or do you think he needs to move on?
• 49:22
  Is the damage too big to revert?
• 49:23
  What they need to do, whether that's Michael Carrick or not, they need to realise this...
• 49:30
  situation and I know Michael Carrick came in and put a band-aid on it last year and actually got them in the qualified for the Champions League mostly down to Bruno Fernandes if I'm being honest and his quality and creating chances of scoring goals and thinking so they have this is just my opinion they have to realise is it the culture within the club is it is it is it something that needs to be swept out and start again and maybe look at Arsenal and say it took Mikel Arteta went in there and had to sweep out the old bring in the new and it took six years
• 49:59
  But you can only do it if you identify the man that is capable of doing the job and bringing the team forward.
• 50:07
  He might be young, forward-thinking.
• 50:09
  It might be Michael Carrick, whichever way you look at it.
• 50:11
  One of the best young coaches around.
• 50:13
  You have to bring him in.
• 50:14
  And regardless of what happens over an 18-month period, no matter how many games you lose, you've got to stick with him because the players have got to know that the manager is going to be there longer than them.
• 50:25
  If they're not happy, it's them that are going rather than the manager because so many times in modern-day football, players will stick it out because they know I'm too much of a commodity.
• 50:35
  They can't sell me all.
• 50:36
  My wages are too high.
• 50:37
  They'll get rid of the manager, man.
• 50:38
  I'll just try again quick for the new manager.
• 50:40
  The players have got to know that the manager is going to outlast them.
• 50:43
  That's the only way discipline really works.
• 50:46
  And so they've got to identify who that guy is.
• 50:49
  On a bittersweet thing, I mean, United have had so much success.
• 50:57
  And now they're feeling what it's like to have no success like us.
• 51:00
  Just going through a little period of having pain and suffering.
• 51:06
  How do you feel about that, Tom?
• 51:09
  Say that again.
• 51:10
  You weren't listening at all there, were you?
• 51:12
  It was.
• 51:13
  Our Man United are feeling mad that they're like us.
• 51:15
  No, I said, basically, United are seeing what it's like to be an Evertonian.
• 51:19
  Don't start me off, mate.
• 51:19
  They know nothing.
• 51:21
  It's a few years.
• 51:22
  Don't start me off.
• 51:23
  30 years.
• 51:23
  30 years.
• 51:24
  It's a few years now.
• 51:25
  But they have such success.
• 51:27
  Don't annoy me else.
• 51:28
  They wind me up again.
• 51:29
  Don't do it.
• 51:30
  Stop it.
• 51:31
  They've known after 30 years, mate.
• 51:32
  30 years.
• 51:33
  My kids have no idea what football really is.
• 51:36
  They've never seen a trophy.
• 51:37
  They've never seen nothing.
• 51:38
  We've witnessed nothing.
• 51:39
  30 years.
• 51:40
  I feel like you're looking at me more.
• 51:42
  I think I was staring at me out there as if it's...
• 51:44
  I know it was my fault, but you don't have to stare at me like that.
• 51:47
  You're actually, literally, I don't know if anyone...
• 51:48
  The people that are watching this, he's actually showing me night...
• 51:52
  You know, he's got good in his pocket and he's glaring at me with night.
• 51:56
  He talked about good and nights being his fists.
• 51:58
  He's staring me out.
• 52:00
  It's frightening.
• 52:00
  He's staring me out with either good or nights looking at me really fiercely there.
• 52:04
  I was a Nebertonian.
• 52:05
  And you're partly to blame.
• 52:08
  I know.
• 52:08
  You're partly to blame.
• 52:10
  I can only apologise and say it wasn't through a lack of trying on my part.
• 52:15
  Do you understand, like, these poor kids, and you've done it to yours as well.
• 52:18
  LAUGHTER
• 52:20
  That's the best part.
• 52:23
  I'm just not going through with my own and you're going through with yours too now.
• 52:26
  I think we're going to do Newcastle on Thursday and then we're in the quarterfinal.
• 52:30
  Do you understand if everyone was to win a trophy right?
• 52:34
  Do you understand what's going to happen?
• 52:37
  That could be the end of days.
• 52:41
  That could be the end of the world.
• 52:43
  Honestly, it feels like that.
• 52:45
  It could be the end of the world.
• 52:48
  I have no words.
• 52:49
  You don't understand.
• 52:50
  This city will never have seen nothing like it.
• 52:52
  And I don't care if they can call it whatever trophy they want.
• 52:56
  I don't care.
• 52:56
  I mean, I celebrated when we won that trophy in America in the preseason.
• 53:01
  I'm not going to dress up.
• 53:02
  I celebrated that.
• 53:03
  Here is... Yeah, I'm going to move us on quickly from my one trophy I won since the Youth Cup in 1998.
• 53:10
  This episode of Outside the Box is sponsored by Bellarm and Joints and Solicitors.
• 53:15
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• 53:50
  The breaking news that it's just out.
• 53:52
  Harry Kane wins the Ballon d'Or.
• 53:54
  Oh, get it.
• 53:55
  Harry Kane just won the Ballon d'Or.
• 53:56
  Well done, Harry Kane.
• 53:57
  I'm happy with that.
• 53:58
  Well done.
• 53:59
  You weren't saying that last week.
• 54:00
  It's the German league.
• 54:03
  It is.
• 54:03
  It's a piss take, but you know, listen, he asked me to make me a thing on the zone today.
• 54:08
  So can you put any of your things and they put me video live out on the zone because it's the zone that it's being shown on.
• 54:14
  And I said, well, it should be Harry Kane.
• 54:16
  You know, he scored more goals than games this season.
• 54:20
  Even if it is in the Sunday Business Houses League, he still has scored more goals than games.
• 54:26
  Hey, I'm surprised you didn't get yourself an invite.
• 54:31
  You know who presented him the award?
• 54:33
  Of course I know who presented that.
• 54:36
  Oh, no, you're amazing.
• 54:38
  R9 gave Harry Kane.
• 54:39
  Oh, wow.
• 54:40
  Harry R9.
• 54:41
  And you're the DAZN man, Harry Kane.
• 54:43
  R9 presented him.
• 54:44
  Should have been your gig.
• 54:45
  Do you know what?
• 54:45
  If I asked DAZN, I probably could have went there as well, and watched him being there tonight.
• 54:48
  But no.
• 54:49
  It's in London, isn't it?
• 54:49
  No one gives a bar my fat arse and wave it to you.
• 54:51
  Stop with us instead.
• 54:52
  Adi Ola Deepo was presenting it.
• 54:53
  Adi Ola Deepo was one of the presenters.
• 54:55
  Him and Kate Abdo, I think.
• 54:57
  And Thierry Henry was there as well.
• 54:59
  Quite a few of them now, yeah.
• 55:00
  Well done.
• 55:01
  I mean, is he the first person since what?
• 55:03
  Pfft.
• 55:04
  Bobby Charlton?
• 55:06
  No, he's the first Englishman since Michael Owen.
• 55:09
  Michael Owen won it in 2001.
• 55:11
  Kevin Keegan won it.
• 55:13
  Was that about 82 or 81?
• 55:15
  I'm sure I knew Keegan and Charlton won it.
• 55:18
  Didn't Charlton win it twice?
• 55:21
  Was it the Ballon d'Or at that point?
• 55:23
  Was it Keegan who won it twice?
• 55:24
  I think Keegan won it twice.
• 55:27
  Back to back then?
• 55:28
  I don't know.
• 55:29
  Harry Kane is the first Bayern Munich player to win it since 1981.
• 55:34
  Now that surprises me.
• 55:35
  Who was that last person?
• 55:38
  What can you tell us?
• 55:39
  No, it's before then.
• 55:42
  Oh, money.
• 55:43
  I'm not privy to that.
• 55:44
  I'm pleased for Harry Kane.
• 55:45
  No, he deserves it.
• 55:46
  Yeah, he does, mate.
• 55:47
  He's never going to win that again.
• 55:48
  He's never going to hit them numbers again.
• 55:50
  So, fair play.
• 55:51
  He deserves it.
• 55:52
  You couldn't have given that to Lamar.
• 55:54
  Not a chance.
• 55:55
  He won the young player.
• 55:57
  Lamar won the young player.
• 55:58
  He's not done enough for that.
• 55:59
  He deserves that, but not the full one.
• 56:01
  He can still win the young player for the next five years, I think.
• 56:05
  that's a joke I mean that's an easy way out that isn't it it is an easy way has anyone ever won young player and being the same player for young player and best player ooh that's a question wonder if that's ever been done I think probably but I don't know wonder if Michael Owen done it the year he won it no he was young when he won it but
• 56:25
  He tells a story that it wasn't as big as a thing back then.
• 56:30
  There was no evening to get presented with.
• 56:31
  He just got told you'd won.
• 56:33
  He didn't really know anything about it.
• 56:35
  Really?
• 56:36
  They sent it to him.
• 56:37
  They asked him to take a picture with him.
• 56:39
  Then they presented it to him before a home game.
• 56:41
  How good was he?
• 56:42
  You've played against him.
• 56:44
  How good was he, Oss?
• 56:45
  Because I think he was frightening.
• 56:48
  For a three or four year period.
• 56:52
  Yeah.
• 56:53
  It was a joke.
• 56:54
  His pace was incredible.
• 56:56
  So I obviously knew Mike Cook.
• 56:56
  Is he the fastest you've ever come up against us?
• 56:59
  You've seen like in the flesh playing against...
• 57:03
  You know when you see them leaving and they're getting away from you?
• 57:05
  Like, have you ever played, is he one of them players who's getting away from me?
• 57:07
  Oh, Thierry Henry was one of them.
• 57:08
  Was he?
• 57:09
  Well, Tony, we're talking about me.
• 57:11
  Most players got away from me easily.
• 57:12
  No, but you know, you see like, Atou's legging Silva, you know what I mean, big Silva.
• 57:17
  Not many's legging him, but like when you see players in the run, your two centre-half and your forward gets into a sprint.
• 57:22
  Thierry Henry would... Who's getting away from them?
• 57:24
  Michael Owen by that stage had probably lost the yard.
• 57:27
  Michael Owen was brilliant until, and I'm talking pace-wise, until he had that bad injury.
• 57:32
  It was an evening game, and it looked like it popped him into the air as he was running.
• 57:42
  in and around that period and probably for a few years later because he went to Real Madrid and scored goals he was scary scary I've seen him a little he was a year older than me and he got into England school boys a year a year before me two years before me a year before me and he was just
• 57:59
  just blowing the mind of a lot of people.
• 58:01
  They had not seen anything like him.
• 58:02
  He scored for the ball straight after he finished in the school, boys.
• 58:06
  Never looked back.
• 58:07
  Owen says, and again, it's worthwhile.
• 58:11
  The Baker and his appearance.
• 58:12
  But he says that he's like the best young player, teenage English player ever.
• 58:18
  So the question is, you've played against them with both of them, Owen or Rooney as a teenager.
• 58:23
  Who is the best?
• 58:24
  They're both strikers.
• 58:26
  They're different.
• 58:28
  They're completely different though.
• 58:31
  I've never seen a player that complete at that age as uni.
• 58:34
  I've never seen a player that complete at 16.
• 58:37
  It's kind of like sort of trying to compare an attacker midfielder to a defensive midfielder these days.
• 58:44
  They're both midfielders.
• 58:46
  They're both quality.
• 58:48
  But they've got different sort of...
• 58:50
  They're trying to compare Armory and Haaland.
• 58:52
  Different abilities, yeah.
• 58:54
  I mean, they've got...
• 58:56
  I mean, Henry and Arland, I would just split them up because... You can't.
• 59:00
  They're completely different.
• 59:03
  Because you know Arland's going to score more than Henry, but he's not a better player.
• 59:07
  I have literally sat on the fence there, but I'm not... You can have 17-year-old Michael Arland or 17-year-old Wayne Rooney.
• 59:13
  I'm okay getting splinters on that.
• 59:15
  Oh, no, no, I'm taking Wayne Rooney.
• 59:17
  I think Michael Arland's a freak, and I think he's a genius, but no, I'm not taking anyone over Wayne Rooney at that age of 17.
• 59:22
  No.
• 59:23
  Most complete player you've ever seen at 17.
• 59:25
  Kids scoring hat-tricks on his Champions League debut at 17, just go away mate, stop it now.
• 59:29
  Stop it.
• 59:30
  You shouldn't be allowed on the pitch at that age.
• 59:31
  I mean, he's still on school, isn't he?
• 59:33
  Shoulder barging, remember shoulder barging Lucas Radaby off the ball?
• 59:38
  What right have you got to do that?
• 59:40
  You've just roughed up Lucas Radaby.
• 59:42
  The man's built like a brick shithouse and you're roughing him up in Elland Road.
• 59:47
  It's nuts, it's insane.
• 59:48
  It's crazy that he was doing that, so...
• 59:50
  I get the thing with Michael Owen, but you understand, Michael Owen, it's purely a pace thing.
• 59:55
  With Wayne Rooney, it's everything.
• 59:56
  It's pace, it's power, it's precision, it's passing.
• 1:00:01
  Michael could finish as well, though.
• 1:00:02
  Yeah, his finishing's brilliant.
• 1:00:04
  I get it, but if everyone's on Michael Owen, you give him a yard, at least you've got a chance.
• 1:00:11
  But with Rooney, he's doing everything.
• 1:00:14
  If you want to hit him, you want to press him, he's taking it, he's giving you the back.
• 1:00:18
  He's a little nasty with it as well.
• 1:00:20
  I get all and 100% I get it, but he's a speed merchant, he's a pace, and I get a 100% unbelievable finisher, but Wayne Rooney is the most complete footballer I've ever seen at that age.
• 1:00:33
  I haven't seen a 17-year-old kid who can do what he could do, fight with men.
• 1:00:38
  play it off the park, pass it off the park, be vicious, pace, just everything costs as a kid.
• 1:00:46
  Like a kid and his IQ for the kid as well, spraying balls, 50, 60 yards.
• 1:00:50
  A hat trick on your Champions League debut.
• 1:00:53
  Like Wayne Rooney for me is the freak of all feet.
• 1:00:55
  It's a great debate.
• 1:00:56
  Honestly, it is.
• 1:00:56
  And then they make the comparison with the Gerrard one and I get it.
• 1:00:59
  Like it's Steven Gerrard or Wayne Rooney, the greatest players to ever come from.
• 1:01:04
  I'll never get it.
• 1:01:04
  I get it.
• 1:01:05
  But
• 1:01:06
  Steven Gerrard, as amazing as he was, couldn't do what Wayne Rooney was doing at 17.
• 1:01:12
  And that's the difference for me.
• 1:01:14
  Yes, when Steven Gerrard did his peak, he carried that club on his back.
• 1:01:17
  And without Steven Gerrard, they don't do an half of what they do.
• 1:01:20
  I get it one day.
• 1:01:22
  I think the only attribute Steven Gerrard has over Wayne Rooney is the captaincy as a leader.
• 1:01:27
  That's the only thing he has over him.
• 1:01:28
  Playing, they're both very similar to each other in playing terms.
• 1:01:32
  I just don't think anything's better.
• 1:01:33
  As you've played with the kid,
• 1:01:35
  You know how good he is.
• 1:01:37
  Like, isn't it freaky?
• 1:01:38
  I was to have a 17-year-old kid.
• 1:01:40
  What, 16 when he was with you, didn't he?
• 1:01:43
  16?
• 1:01:44
  Yeah, his rise was a joke.
• 1:01:46
  But honestly, all three of them, Jesus.
• 1:01:51
  Just referring it back to the initial conversation.
• 1:01:52
  All three of them were unreal.
• 1:01:53
  Michael Owen won the Ballon d'Or when he was 22.
• 1:01:57
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:02:00
  I'm a Rooney guy, by the way.
• 1:02:02
  In my opinion, it is Rooney.
• 1:02:03
  But Owen does have an argument.
• 1:02:06
  He won the Ballon d'Or when he was 22.
• 1:02:07
  Right place, right time.
• 1:02:10
  But you're saying there wasn't as many... No, it's just right play time.
• 1:02:15
  Was that the year he scored the goal against Argentina as well?
• 1:02:16
  It was, wasn't it?
• 1:02:17
  He gets the ball and door off the end of that.
• 1:02:19
  No, that was 98.
• 1:02:20
  I think he was... 98?
• 1:02:23
  Because I'm pretty sure I listened to him in a little clip.
• 1:02:26
  And he was saying he shouldn't have even won it that year.
• 1:02:28
  He should have won it the year before.
• 1:02:30
  I think he was still a teenager.
• 1:02:31
  Because he said the year he won the ball and door, he thinks he should have won it.
• 1:02:34
  I think it was a teenager still when he scored against Argentina.
• 1:02:37
  I've definitely seen a clip.
• 1:02:38
  I've seen a clip of him saying, I should have won the Ballon d'Or.
• 1:02:43
  He definitely said, I should have won the Ballon d'Or the year.
• 1:02:49
  the year before, that's when, I think that's when he got the goal or whatever he'd done, but he said, the year he actually got it, he said, I didn't think I was the best in the world then, the year before, and no, I was.
• 1:02:58
  He said it was such confidence.
• 1:03:00
  And players, players know that themselves.
• 1:03:02
  There is, one of the reasons why Michael won it in 2001 was Liverpool won three or four trophies, didn't they?
• 1:03:09
  They won, like all three cups in a year, they won the European Cup.
• 1:03:12
  He scored the two goals against Arsenal in the cup final when he brought them back from behind.
• 1:03:17
  The Millennium Stadium.
• 1:03:19
  he was scoring high profile goals and it came off the back of the year when he is self-proclaimed the best in the year.
• 1:03:27
  So he'd already risen his reputation by that point, the very next year, once he's in everyone's forefront, having at the 1998 world cup announced himself on the scene to then get to there where he's now backed it up in the 2000 international tournament to then do that again.
• 1:03:43
  So that's, that's why he won it.
• 1:03:44
  But honestly,
• 1:03:46
  who are you picking else come on stop it you've got to pick one of them as a teenager I think as a teenager I pick Michael and anything else I pick Wayne
• 1:03:56
  Oh, wow.
• 1:03:57
  You know, you've got a better thing than us.
• 1:03:59
  You know, you've played it.
• 1:04:00
  No, as well, because Michael Owen was a year older than me.
• 1:04:04
  So I sort of tracked him and followed him, and he was doing things that seemed impossible for me.
• 1:04:12
  I was like, he's a year older than me, and he's just scored.
• 1:04:16
  Like, I'm 17, he's 18, and he's just scored for England against Argentina in the World Cup.
• 1:04:22
  I'm like, I've just followed him all the way through England's schoolboys, and he's...
• 1:04:25
  He's just gone like that.
• 1:04:27
  He's gone through the roof.
• 1:04:29
  He's gone through the roof.
• 1:04:30
  He's gone through the roof.
• 1:04:32
  Excuse me, do you forget them defenders he ran past playing that game as well?
• 1:04:35
  Frightening.
• 1:04:35
  The midfielders and the defenders he ran past in the Argentina game.
• 1:04:40
  Oh my Lord.
• 1:04:41
  Like, wow.
• 1:04:42
  Some big time defenders there, mate.
• 1:04:44
  Some top, top world class players.
• 1:04:46
  Like elite level players and he's running around them like it's a joke.
• 1:04:50
  I go, Michael there, I go, Wayne after, you have to mention Stephen because of how good he was.
• 1:04:54
  And I never end a conversation like that without mentioning my mate Tony Ibbott, who deserves a mention in those guys all the time.
• 1:05:04
  Oh, what a player.
• 1:05:05
  What a player.
• 1:05:06
  The fourth actually in the UFC.
• 1:05:08
  There you go.
• 1:05:09
  He's in the conversation, though.
• 1:05:11
  Someone a scouser?
• 1:05:13
  I don't know.
• 1:05:14
  Is he?
• 1:05:14
  Posh one.
• 1:05:15
  Posh one.
• 1:05:15
  Chester.
• 1:05:16
  Stop it.
• 1:05:17
  You know that's not the kill.
• 1:05:18
  Don't annoy me.
• 1:05:19
  My pleasure.
• 1:05:20
  Congrats to Harry Kane.
• 1:05:21
  Come on to Toffees on Thursday.
• 1:05:22
  Well done, Harry Kane.
• 1:05:24
  Up to Toffees.