Latest / TAKEN TV Podcasts / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - American Idol Star Wails Over Wife's "Death": Bombshell Sentence

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - American Idol Star Wails Over Wife's "Death": Bombshell Sentence · TAKEN TV Podcasts

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: It's hammer time after the American Idol star wails over
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: his wife's death. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Oh my God, somebody, somebody broke into my home. Somebody
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: broke into my home and killed my wife.
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: She's in the bed.
• 0:26
  Speaker 4: She's in the bed.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: I rubbed her leg.
• 0:29
  Speaker 5: And asked her name.
• 0:29
  Speaker 6: She's not answering.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: And I didn't know what to do.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: I froze.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: I was scared. Joining us tonight, straight out of the courtroom,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: courtroom insider star Nate Eaton. The judge brings down the hammer,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Nate Eaton. What happened in court?
• 0:47
  Speaker 7: Caleb Flynn will be spending life in prison without the
• 0:50
  Speaker 7: possibility of parole. Judge Janine Pratt just handed down the sentence.
• 0:55
  Speaker 7: As Caleb Flynn sobbed through the entire hearing this afternoon,
• 0:59
  Speaker 7: Ashley Flynn's family read statements from their daughters saying, Daddy,
• 1:03
  Speaker 7: how could you do this to Mommy? She was the
• 1:05
  Speaker 7: best thing that ever happened to you. The judge did
• 1:08
  Speaker 7: not mince words. She called his actions abhorrent. She said
• 1:12
  Speaker 7: that they were evil, and she said that he deserves
• 1:15
  Speaker 7: to go to prison for the rest of his life.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: You want to sit down?
• 1:19
  Speaker 5: No.
• 1:19
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Is she gone? Look at me.
• 1:22
  Speaker 7: Look at me.
• 1:23
  Speaker 8: Take a breath.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Look at me. I need you to breathe, okay? Right now?
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: Right now I need.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: You to breathe, okay?
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Do you have any family that you can call? Okay,
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: where's your phone at? Is she gone?
• 1:43
  Speaker 9: Is she gone?
• 1:45
  Speaker 10: Yes!
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Yes, American Idol star, she's gone because you killed her.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: You shot her twice in the back of the head
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: as she was lying asleep in your home that you
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: shared with your girls who were asleep in the next room.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Is she gone? My rear end. What am I going
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: to do? What am I going to do with my daughters?
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: You're going to tell them one day when they come
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: to visit you behind bars, how you killed their mother
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: and make up some sad, sloppy excuse about why you
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: did it. That's what you're going to do with your daughters.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah. It's hammer time. This guy, the American Idol
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: star in front of a judge in the last hours
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: who brings down the hammer. And why shouldn't he, with
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: texts like these incendiary, inflammatory texts, complete disregard for his
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: wife's life? His wife, the mother of his children. Listen
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: to this. Why cater to Ashley and what she effing wants?
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: I'm so done with you. We have to get rid of.
• 2:59
  Speaker 10: * * * *.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: I need you. You're my everything. Yeah, I wonder how
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: long she'll be visiting him behind bars. Did Ash keep
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: those screenshots of our messages? What if she recovered them
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: from recently deleted? This could be super bad if she
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: has them. What? Don't worry about her finding them. Worry
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: about homicide finding them. The day of. Just hours after
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: his wife is dead, he writes, I choose you.
• 3:28
  Speaker 10: I'm free.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Actions will come tomorrow. Why can't it be you? Why
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: couldn't I have met you and married you and had
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: kids with you? Throughout, straight out to Nate Eaton, these texts,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: both of them refer to his wife as d * * *.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: I'm telling you, number one, play that song. body cam
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: of all of his lies and the hyperventilating and the
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: crying and all of that to show what a liar
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: he is. He can't say anything in court to erase
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: all those lies from my mind. It's like a horror
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: movie playing. Oh, look at him.
• 4:09
  Speaker 10: He's kneeling.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: He's kneeling in pain and suffering. Translation, I'm afraid they'll
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: figure out he did it. These, oh please, just stop.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: This guy forgets singing. You should go into acting. You'll
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: have plenty of time for that behind bars to hone
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: those skills. All of the body cam shows he's a
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: big fat liar and all of the texts referring to
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: his wife as d * * * and more shows
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: his complete disregard for her life. And today he wanted mercy?
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? Describe the effect. that that video
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: and those texts had on the jury.
• 4:51
  Speaker 7: The jury saw right through it, Nancy. 107,000 text messages
• 4:57
  Speaker 7: between Caleb Flynn and his mistress, Aaliyah Botner, over this
• 5:01
  Speaker 7: series of months. You said that they called her d * * *.
• 5:04
  Speaker 7: They also called her spawn of Satan. They called her witch.
• 5:08
  Speaker 7: They called her names far worse. This was going on
• 5:11
  Speaker 7: as Ashley Flynn is raising their daughters. As they're going
• 5:14
  Speaker 7: to church together, remember, they all went to the same church.
• 5:18
  Speaker 7: Caleb Flynn met Aaliyah Botner through church. At one point,
• 5:22
  Speaker 7: they talked about how they just wished that Ashley Flynn
• 5:25
  Speaker 7: was dead. Well, they got their wish, and now Caleb
• 5:29
  Speaker 7: Flynn is headed to prison.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: You know, I don't get it. By the way, guys,
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: let me formally introduce Nate Eaton. He is the news
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: director and a star at East Idaho News Emmy-nominated. He
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: is a star of Courtroom Insider on YouTube in the
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: courtroom from day one in the American Idol murder trial.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: Randolph Rice, you're a veteran trial lawyer. You and I
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: have both worked on death penalty cases. Here's the deal.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: Isn't it a day late and a dollar short to
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: tell the judge how good you are, what a good
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: boy you are, after the judge saw all that BS
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: technical legal term? I don't know if they teach you
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: that in law school in Maryland. but it's all BS.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: Anything he could have driveled out, any letter of character,
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: I don't care. It's all destroyed by that body cam
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: and those texts.
• 6:19
  Speaker 10: I mean, really?
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: If you called your wife a douche, I would come
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: prosecute you myself.
• 6:27
  Speaker 5: Nancy, it certainly didn't help him today, but I certainly
• 6:29
  Speaker 5: think that the judge also took into fact or consideration
• 6:33
  Speaker 5: in her mind as to the evidence that she heard
• 6:35
  Speaker 5: during this trial. And certainly there may be some questions
• 6:38
  Speaker 5: or may have been some questions in her mind during
• 6:40
  Speaker 5: the sentencing. Certainly didn't play out that way. But I
• 6:43
  Speaker 5: got to think that the judge thought about the lack
• 6:45
  Speaker 5: of the gun, the gunshot residue missing. Where's the blood spatter?
• 6:49
  Speaker 5: Those are things I got to think that the judge
• 6:51
  Speaker 5: at least thought about for a second today during sentencing.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, put him up, please. What did you say, Randolph Rice,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: the judge should have considered today in sentencing?
• 7:04
  Speaker 5: Nancy, even though the fact that the jury found him guilty,
• 7:07
  Speaker 5: the judge still today has to think about, you know,
• 7:10
  Speaker 5: she was sitting in this courtroom. She saw the evidence
• 7:13
  Speaker 5: and she saw the lack of evidence. So in her mind,
• 7:15
  Speaker 5: she maybe partly could have considered that in making this sentence.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sorry.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: What?
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: Okay. You're telling me what the judge should consider? She
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: sat through the trial. So you're saying the judge should
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: reconsider the fact there was no evidence GSR, gunshot residue, translation,
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: he washed his hands as he was staging the scene.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: I guess next you're going to tell me the judge
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: should consider he's got a really bad cough.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: Where were you asleep at, sir? I have a really
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: bad cough. So do I.
• 7:53
  Speaker 11: Your mom was telling me that you've got the same
• 7:56
  Speaker 11: thing going on that.
• 7:59
  Speaker 7: I do.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: So you don't care?
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: I've got a cough too. He's got a cough. David Sarney,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: help me. Did you hear Randolph Rice say the judge
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: who she sat through, Judge Pratt, Janine Pratt sat through
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: the entire body of evidence. She heard it all. She's
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: watched him snot and snivel and carry on the entire trial.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: He's talking about his daughters. He didn't care about his
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: daughters when he murdered his wife in the home with
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: them under the roof. Sarney, gunshot residue. Oh, there he
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: is crying again. That's from Nate Eaton, Everett Courtroom Insider.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: David Sarny, could you please, with all of your 27
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: years of experience in NYPD, Professor John Jay College of
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Criminal Justice, could you explain how easily you can get
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: rid of GSR gunshot residue?
• 8:53
  Speaker 6: Thank all the police advocates for body-worn cameras because you
• 8:57
  Speaker 6: could now document things that responding officers could never do
• 9:01
  Speaker 6: in person or by paper. So this is a treasure
• 9:05
  Speaker 6: trove of information you have here. As far as the
• 9:08
  Speaker 6: gunshot residue, think about this and the story that he
• 9:11
  Speaker 6: put out, that someone came in the house, shot his
• 9:15
  Speaker 6: wife and left. And when he spoke to the officers,
• 9:18
  Speaker 6: gunshot residue, Is it an issue? It's primarily the facts there.
• 9:23
  Speaker 6: That could be missed, but the reality is this. If
• 9:25
  Speaker 6: someone's coming into your house to shoot your wife, where
• 9:28
  Speaker 6: does she go? The perpetrator allegedly goes into his garage
• 9:34
  Speaker 6: and into his vehicle, removes a firearm from inside the console,
• 9:39
  Speaker 6: doesn't touch anything else, walks into the house, fires shots,
• 9:43
  Speaker 6: He's the only, and also remember that he's the only
• 9:46
  Speaker 6: person that knew on that 911 call he fired, that
• 9:48
  Speaker 6: two shots were fired. No one could tell otherwise. The
• 9:51
  Speaker 6: perpetrator then leaves the scene and then he wakes up
• 9:54
  Speaker 6: and then does all this. The gunshot residue is in
• 9:57
  Speaker 6: is inconsequential because, you know, you didn't find any bloody clothing.
• 10:01
  Speaker 6: Who's to say that he didn't have he did not
• 10:04
  Speaker 6: shoot her without a shirt on and just took a shower.
• 10:08
  Speaker 6: These are things that the little things that come into
• 10:10
  Speaker 6: play when you talk about investigation. You can have an affair.
• 10:13
  Speaker 6: You can investigate shootings and murders a lot. The little
• 10:17
  Speaker 6: pieces that came into the 911 call, the response by
• 10:20
  Speaker 6: the officers at the scene, his interrogation later on, all
• 10:24
  Speaker 6: these bits and pieces, plus the forensic digital evidence they recover,
• 10:28
  Speaker 6: laid out what he did that night. And that's what
• 10:31
  Speaker 6: this was.
• 10:32
  Speaker 7: This was a cold call.
• 10:33
  Speaker 6: Cold-blooded murder. That's what you see, and that's what the
• 10:36
  Speaker 6: investigators will determine by the totality of circumstances and the facts.
• 10:40
  Speaker 6: Not speculation, facts.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: But Jeff Gentry, Jeff Gentry, joining us out of Fresno,
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: board-certified bloodstain pattern analyst, senior crime scene analyst, death investigator,
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: author of Forensic Science, Applications to Death in Crime Scenes Investigations.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: You can find him at evidenceoverassumption.com. Jeff Gentry. What about
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: his cough? Come on, tell me about gunshot residue, how
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: easily you can get rid of it. You can go,
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: it's gone.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, gunshot residue is fantastic when you have it and
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: it can be interpreted. The concentration of gunshot residue is
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: going to determine how close a firearm was in proximity
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: to somebody's hand that was holding it or the victim
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: who was shot. But in this type of case, if
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: you're shot from a distance, you wouldn't anticipate there being
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: much gunshot residue on the victim themselves. And gunshot residue
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: on the suspect If you're wearing gloves or if you're
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: wearing clothing that could block the gunshot residue from being
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: deposited on your skin, all you have to do is
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: wash your hands and change your shirt and it's gone.
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: So it can be very difficult to analyze. I mean,
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: if you do have it and it's in high levels,
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: good concentrations on the suspect or the victim, wonderful. It's
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: great forensic evidence if you have it and can interpret it.
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: But if it's not there, it doesn't mean that you
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: weren't the shooter. It just means that you had ample
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: time to clean up or you had ample time to
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: change your clothing, wash your hands. So it doesn't really
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: make or break this case. It absolutely does not.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Come on, though, Gentry. You can't blame Randolph Rice for
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: trying because, you know, with body cam video like this,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: he's really scraping the bottom of the barrel, but he's
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: doing it really well. Okay. First, we heard about his cough.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: You think the judge cares? Judge Jeanine Pratt does not
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: care about your cough. Then He tries to get sympathy
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: over his own daughters, manipulating them as well.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: And I was here. And I heard the dogs shake her,
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: move her collar.
• 12:40
  Speaker 11: Yeah.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: And it woke me up. And both my girls were sick.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:46
  Speaker 11: One of them got caught up. So I went to
• 12:49
  Speaker 11: their room. And I laid down with them for, I
• 12:56
  Speaker 11: don't even know how.
• 12:58
  Speaker 7: Long, Yeah.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: That's what I heard it.
• 13:01
  Speaker 11: Okay. From, from you hearing the gunshot, did you see any, like, I.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: Just didn't know what.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: It was.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: I froze. I see you froze. When I finally got up,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: the door leaned, the garage was open.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: But I didn't see anybody.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: Okay. He froze, he froze my rear end. So throwing
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: himself at the mercy of the judge, judge Janine Pratt today.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: You know, I don't, I don't get it too.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Dr.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: Janie Lacey joining us, licensed psychotherapist, CEO of life counseling solutions,
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: author of how to heal from a toxic relationship. And
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: she's a star of let's talk about it with Janie Lacey. Um, Dr. Janie,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: why is it that so often we see the spouse
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: that one time go sleep with the children, coincidentally, the
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: night their spouse is murdered? I saw it with Moscow
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: Mule Mom, Corrie Richens, who murdered her husband. That night
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: of all nights, she went down the hall and slept
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: with her children. Had no idea her husband was killed. Again,
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: here we see the American Idol star down the hall
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: sleeping with his girls. I bet they can't testify to that.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: The night his wife was targeted by an crazy intruder
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: killer that comes in the home, no sex attack, no theft,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: no nothing, just comes in, shoots her, and leaves. But
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: he was sleeping with his children that night of all nights.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: And the sob story, I don't know, that would have
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: totally rubbed me the wrong way. The only thing that
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: would have worked with Judge Jeanine Pratt is for him
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: to stand up and say, I did it. I was wrong.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: I was selfish. I'm going to live with this the
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: rest of my life. It's ruined my relationship with my children.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: That's the only way he'll do it. But he's still
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: sniveling and snotting like he didn't do it.
• 15:17
  Speaker 8: Well, what we're looking at is the ultimate performance. And
• 15:21
  Speaker 8: when we also think about those that will try to
• 15:25
  Speaker 8: connect with their children in the face of telling a story,
• 15:29
  Speaker 8: you're touching on the hearts of many people as parents
• 15:32
  Speaker 8: and you're looking at the innocents. But when we're looking
• 15:35
  Speaker 8: at all these these tears, right, I think about like,
• 15:37
  Speaker 8: are these these tears real, Nancy? And the question is
• 15:42
  Speaker 8: who they're for. You know, and I think about in
• 15:44
  Speaker 8: my my office, I grief for many for another person
• 15:47
  Speaker 8: and grief for yourself. They look completely different and grief
• 15:51
  Speaker 8: for a wife in particular. It sounds like you're saying
• 15:54
  Speaker 8: her name and it sounds like my girls lost their mother.
• 15:58
  Speaker 8: But I think what we have seen is the courtroom
• 16:01
  Speaker 8: watched was a man who cried hardest at the exact moment.
• 16:04
  Speaker 8: And let's think about it. The consequences landed on him,
• 16:07
  Speaker 8: the verdict, the handcuffs, the hearing about what follows him
• 16:11
  Speaker 8: for the rest of his life. And I've never evaluated him,
• 16:14
  Speaker 8: so I won't diagnose him. But I can tell you
• 16:16
  Speaker 8: the difference between remorse and self-pity because I see both
• 16:20
  Speaker 8: of them every week. Remorse moves towards the people you hurt.
• 16:24
  Speaker 8: And self-pity, like it just curls inward. So remorse says like,
• 16:27
  Speaker 8: what have I done to them? And self-pity looks like
• 16:29
  Speaker 8: what's happening to me. And I think what we're seeing
• 16:31
  Speaker 8: is just nothing but self-pity, Nancy.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: Oh, dear gravy. What is that, Nate Eaton? Why is
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: he cringing in court?
• 16:39
  Speaker 7: That's when they showed the photos of his wife, the
• 16:42
  Speaker 7: autopsy photos, Nancy. This was one part of the trial.
• 16:45
  Speaker 7: I looked at the jurors who were focused on those images.
• 16:49
  Speaker 7: And two of the women looked at Caleb Flynn as
• 16:52
  Speaker 7: he cried. And they didn't show much emotion, the jurors.
• 16:56
  Speaker 7: In fact, the look on their face was one of,
• 16:58
  Speaker 7: it appeared to me, disgust. Remember that when Caleb Flynn
• 17:02
  Speaker 7: called the police, Nancy, he said, my wife's been shot twice.
• 17:07
  Speaker 7: They had medical experts, doctors on the stand that said
• 17:11
  Speaker 7: when they responded to the scene, they were not able
• 17:14
  Speaker 7: to tell how many times she had been shot because
• 17:17
  Speaker 7: her hair was in the way, because it was bloody, because, sorry,
• 17:20
  Speaker 7: there was brain matter there. So how did Caleb Flynn
• 17:24
  Speaker 7: know that she had been shot twice? But the autopsy
• 17:27
  Speaker 7: and the medical experts, when they responded to the scene,
• 17:30
  Speaker 7: did not know. Later, they confirmed it when they did
• 17:33
  Speaker 7: the autopsy that she had two bullets in her head.
• 17:37
  Speaker 7: Another question that another issue, I think another point here
• 17:39
  Speaker 7: that I think the jurors really took note of. And
• 17:42
  Speaker 7: Judge Pratt as well.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Can I see him cringing in court again? Oh, there
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: you go.
• 17:48
  Speaker 10: Owie.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Look what I did. Oops. Did I say that?
• 17:53
  Speaker 7: Really?
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: This guy gets the Oscar. You know, Randolph Rice, that's
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: a really good point because typically the medical examiner, oh,
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: by the way, that's from Nate Eaton and Courtroom Insider.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: Typically the medical examiner has to shave the victim's head
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: so they can carefully appreciate or examine the gunshot wounds
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: to the head. And if you look at her hair,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: it's long and thick and dark. And it was completely
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: matted with blood and brain matter. There's no way he
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: could have known how many times she had been shot
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: and then tried to lie about it. I'm sure Judge
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Pratt was thinking about that when she brings down the
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: hammer in court today. And Randolph Rice, regarding autopsy photos,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: it's very difficult to get autopsy photos into evidence because
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: they are inflammatory and incendiary. And you run the risk
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: of the jury having such a horrific reaction that they
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: become more inflammatory than they are probative. In other words,
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: it gets the jury more upset than it proves anything.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: But a good prosecutor can find a way to get
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: them in. And when that jury looked at her shaved
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: scalp with her, literally, the medical examiner has to pull
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: the skin off The head. To examine the wounds and
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: the trajectory path and then replace it for burial if
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: that's possible. You show a jury that autopsy photo, it's over.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: It's over, Rice.
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: Nancy, I'm sure you got a lot of autopsy photos
• 19:38
  Speaker 5: in when you were a prosecutor. And also to the
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: point of that, when you were married for that long,
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: you know your partner's body, you know what is wrong
• 19:46
  Speaker 5: with it. So I don't find it strange that he
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: could be able to identify that there were two holes
• 19:50
  Speaker 5: in the back of her head. He'd seen the back
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: of her head a thousand, a million times before this.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Covered in blood and brain matter?
• 19:59
  Speaker 5: You certainly know what your wife looks like. You certainly
• 20:01
  Speaker 5: know what your wife would look like if she had
• 20:03
  Speaker 5: two holes in the back of her head. And it's
• 20:05
  Speaker 5: kind of like a drunk driver when they ask him
• 20:06
  Speaker 5: how many beers they had.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: Two.
• 20:08
  Speaker 5: He could have might have just said two just because
• 20:10
  Speaker 5: he saw two. There might have been three. There might
• 20:12
  Speaker 5: have been four. There might have been one. But he
• 20:13
  Speaker 5: just said two. So that's something that I don't think
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: that the judge should take that much consideration today.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: You know, you really are amazing, Randolph Rice. You are.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: That's how you win so many cases. You somehow are
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: taking the fact that only the killer would know how
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: many shots were underneath all of her hair that was
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: matted with blood and brain matter. And you're turning it
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: around to, he knew his wife so well, he would
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: have known how many bullet holes were in her head.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: I like the way you did that. I don't believe it,
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: but I like it. Okay, let's see what you've got
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: to say about this. Because we heard.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: Nate, we heard Nate Eaton describing the jury responding, their
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: reaction to those autopsy photos. You should have seen them
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: when this was played in the courtroom.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: Love at first.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Sight, even though I was scared.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: They said time is a thing.
• 21:13
  Speaker 9: And life's not fair, but you'll learn. Like I belong
• 21:23
  Speaker 9: there Circumstances spoke louder than hearts ever could Did what
• 21:31
  Speaker 9: love couldn't fix, though I swear that we would If
• 21:34
  Speaker 9: the stars had aligned just a moment more We'd be
• 21:38
  Speaker 9: old on a.
• 21:39
  Speaker 11: Porch counting dreams not closed doors.
• 21:44
  Speaker 9: Here's to the third and the us that we lost
• 21:49
  Speaker 9: to the almost forever.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: That came at a cost.
• 21:55
  Speaker 9: You were my meaning, my love, my best friend. Life
• 22:02
  Speaker 9: has no meaning. It's come to an end.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: You danced on me.
• 22:18
  Speaker 10: Okay, Nate Eaton.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: Nate Eaton joining us. He's been in the courtroom from
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: day one, and it all culminated in the last hours
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: when the judge brings down the hammer on the American
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Idol star, He's joining us from East Idaho News. You
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: were talking about the jury reaction when they saw the
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: autopsy photos. I saw the jury responding to when those
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: songs were played, songs Flynn wrote for his church mistress.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: They were out again having monkey sex and every nook
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: and cranny they could probably in the church. I don't
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: know where all they did it, but they did it.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: What did the jury do? Please describe. There she is,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: a so-called worship leader. I don't know why she's not charged,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: but she's not. What was the jury reaction when those
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: songs were played, the songs he wrote for his mistress
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: while he's married?
• 23:24
  Speaker 7: Well, you say he wrote, that might be too generous
• 23:26
  Speaker 7: of a term, Nancy. He used AI to come up
• 23:29
  Speaker 7: with the tunes and he actually did it twice. So
• 23:32
  Speaker 7: they played the same lyrics twice with different moods because
• 23:36
  Speaker 7: he wanted to have different moods. There was a lot of-
• 23:38
  Speaker 7: Put him up.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Put him up, put him up, put him up. Whoa, whoa,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: the same lyrics twice, did you say with different moods, M-O-O-D-S?
• 23:47
  Speaker 7: Correct, yes. So they played the same songs.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: Twice, but he had- What kind of moods? Sexy moods?
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: What kind of moods? You've got to tell me, Nate.
• 23:55
  Speaker 7: Desperation was one, I need you, I want you. The
• 23:58
  Speaker 7: other was a little bit more upbeat, a little bit more,
• 24:01
  Speaker 7: we can be together, we can spend our lives together.
• 24:04
  Speaker 7: A lot of smiles, but trying to contain it. That's
• 24:08
  Speaker 7: what the jurors were doing, trying not to laugh. And
• 24:11
  Speaker 7: if you actually watch, while those songs were played, we
• 24:14
  Speaker 7: have it, we've posted the video, the camera panned the gallery.
• 24:17
  Speaker 7: Ashley Flynn's family was in the courtroom. Her mom, her dad,
• 24:22
  Speaker 7: her sister, her brother-in-law they were trying really hard not
• 24:26
  Speaker 7: to burst into laughter. This may have been the one
• 24:28
  Speaker 7: moment of the trial where there was a little bit
• 24:30
  Speaker 7: of brevity or a little bit of kind of a
• 24:35
  Speaker 7: funny feeling, like we cannot believe that this man who's
• 24:39
  Speaker 7: sitting there had these songs written for this mistress. And
• 24:43
  Speaker 7: this was six, seven minutes of the trial where they
• 24:45
  Speaker 7: played this song twice and they were able to see
• 24:48
  Speaker 7: that Caleb Flynn was desperate for her. He sent her
• 24:51
  Speaker 7: these songs, Aaliyah Botner, after she had ignored him for
• 24:54
  Speaker 7: some time, after he had failed to meet the deadline
• 24:58
  Speaker 7: that she had given him, that he promised, I'm going
• 25:00
  Speaker 7: to leave her by this point. I'm going to file
• 25:02
  Speaker 7: for divorce by this point. Yet again, he failed. He
• 25:05
  Speaker 7: didn't leave her. She says, we're done, the mistress. And
• 25:09
  Speaker 7: then he sends her these AI generated songs.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Because what I saw, Nate Eaton, was a lot of
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: eye rolling and looking around uncomfortably. Randolph Rice, you know,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: you've lost your jury when they start looking away every
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: time you look at them. That's a bad sign, and
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: the eye rolling and the stifled laughter, that is not good, Rice.
• 25:30
  Speaker 5: Well, that's what the defense should have done more of here.
• 25:32
  Speaker 5: They needed to get a bucket of sand and throw
• 25:34
  Speaker 5: it in the eyes of this jury, and they certainly
• 25:36
  Speaker 5: weren't able to do that. I'm also very disappointed they
• 25:38
  Speaker 5: didn't call in witnesses.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Wait, that's your trial tactic?
• 25:41
  Speaker 5: In this case, it had to be.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: That's your trial tactic, throw sand in the eyes of
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: the jury.
• 25:44
  Speaker 5: It had to be in this one, and you know that.
• 25:46
  Speaker 5: This is the state's burden. The defense should have come
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: in here much stronger and distracted this jury. brought in
• 25:53
  Speaker 5: experts to contradict the statements made by the prosecution's witness.
• 25:58
  Speaker 5: We needed witnesses or experts rather to talk about where's
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: the gun, talk about why is there no blood splatter.
• 26:03
  Speaker 5: Why didn't we have these things on the defense's part?
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Jeff Gentry joining us. He is the senior crime scene
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: analyst and death investigator joining us tonight and author. Jeff,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: did you hear Randolph rise? You know, it's desperate. When
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: the defense attorney, they don't have a theory. There's not SOD.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Some other dude did it. Like who?
• 26:27
  Speaker 11: Who?
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: What other dude? You don't have insanity. You don't have self-defense.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: So his suggestion, and I don't blame him. He's right,
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: is distract the jury, throw sand in their eyes. Okay.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: Can I circle back to you about the scene itself?
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Because it's really hard to distract a jury from what
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Gentry is about to say. I.
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: I appreciate your defense attorney trying to muddy the waters.
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's what they get paid to do in
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: most cases. And nothing against him, of course. But in
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: this case, he talked about the gunshot wounds and that
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: this man should know his wife and that just by
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: knowing his wife, he would automatically know that there are
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: two gunshot wounds. That is impossible. I have examined thousands
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: of bodies at scenes. I've examined thousands of bodies in
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: the autopsy room. And I know just how difficult it
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: can be to identify a gunshot wound, even when you
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: know someone has been shot. let alone trying to identify
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: a gunshot wound on somebody that's bloody. They have a
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: lot of hair. And if those gunshots are in close
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: proximity to one another, it's almost impossible out of the
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: scene to with a reasonable amount of confidence to say
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: that it's two gunshot wounds. And that's in a somewhat
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: controlled environment. This is a guy coming in in shock, allegedly,
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: and identifying two gunshot wounds. That is just impossible. So
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: that that doesn't make any sense at all that you
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: would use that as any form of evidence. And This guy,
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: this suspect, he's pathetic. I can't believe that these people
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: go as far as to murder their wives or murder
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: their significant others. I'll never understand why someone can't just
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: say it's over and leave them where they have to
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: have that control over someone where they go as far
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: as to kill them. So I appreciate your defense attorney
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: trying to stir things up, but it's not going to
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: work in this case.
• 28:10
  Speaker 10: And remember, the.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Judge heard all of this first go around. Don't you know,
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: don't you know, Nate Eaton, that after they played those
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: songs that he wrote for his sex monkey mistress, okay,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: after they played those in the courtroom, you know she
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: had to take a recess and go back in her
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: chambers with her staff in secret, shut the doors, let
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: the blinds down, and laugh her head off and go,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: did you hear that? You know she had to have
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: that reaction, yet today they want mercy.
• 28:43
  Speaker 7: Actually, when they played those songs, Nancy, it was at
• 28:45
  Speaker 7: the end of the day, so court adjourned. It gave
• 28:48
  Speaker 7: everybody a time to go home and think about those songs.
• 28:50
  Speaker 7: But the reality of the matter is that Ashley Flynn's
• 28:54
  Speaker 7: family sat through this trial and not only had to
• 28:58
  Speaker 7: hear those songs, they had to hear those degrading text messages, 107,000,
• 29:04
  Speaker 7: which they only admitted maybe a 20th of them, a
• 29:07
  Speaker 7: hundredth of them. There were 34 books.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: How many texts did these two exchange? You know what
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: we're doing here? We're talking about the outlandish portions of
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: the trial, like his body cam, ridiculosity, the faking, all
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: of that. We're talking about the songs and how it
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: was almost like a spoof in the courtroom. You know why?
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: Because it's easier to talk about that than it is
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: to talk about This mom. of these little girls going
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: to bed, looking forward to the next day. I remember
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: when I was raising the twins at that age, when
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: I'd try to go to sleep, I'd be thinking, oh,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: tomorrow morning, I've got to do this, and they've got
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: to take this project to school, and I've got to
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: thaw this out to cook for supper, and you're thinking
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: and you're planning things, about the next day for your children,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: and life just seems to stretch out like this beautiful
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: path that you're going to walk with them. And that's
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: how she went to bed, and she never woke up.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: And in the middle of the night, he murdered the
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: mother of these children in cold blood and then staged
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: the scene. So, yes, nobody wants to talk about bullets.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: ripping through her head, killing her in her sleep. And
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: now these girls will be raised without parents. Their mother
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: is nothing but a memory to them. That's what this
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: family has had to live with. And yet today, in
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: front of a judge that has endured all of this evidence,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: along with the jury, along with the victim's family, they
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: want mercy. I hope the judge replayed this in her mind.
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: Do you have any text messages from her? I delete
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: text messages all the time. She sends me a million
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: pictures and it takes up my storage. It doesn't look
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: like you've.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: Got any history with her.
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: She had to text.
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: Me today and she sent me Galentine's picks, which I deleted.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Nate Eaton, that is the interrogation tapes of Caleb Flynn.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: That's Detective Mike Morgan. Do a really good job, by
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: the way. Nate Eaton joining us, East Idaho News. Who
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: is she? Who is she that he is referring to?
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: I assume the mistress, because why would he delete photos
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: of his wife ascending?
• 31:45
  Speaker 7: Well, that actually was a reference to his wife. He
• 31:48
  Speaker 7: was saying that his wife sends him a lot of photos,
• 31:50
  Speaker 7: so he has to delete them. because it takes up
• 31:53
  Speaker 7: his storage. His wife that weekend, it was Valentine's Day weekend,
• 31:56
  Speaker 7: had just gone out with his two daughters. They had
• 31:59
  Speaker 7: a good time together. They got pampered. They got facials.
• 32:02
  Speaker 7: Valentine's Day weekend, they spent the time together. So the
• 32:05
  Speaker 7: detective is saying, how come you don't have any history
• 32:07
  Speaker 7: with your wife here on your phone? Where's all the texts?
• 32:10
  Speaker 7: And he said, oh, I had to delete them because
• 32:11
  Speaker 7: of that. Well, after they obtained warrants, how many texts
• 32:14
  Speaker 7: did they find with the mistress?
• 32:17
  Speaker 8: 107,000.
• 32:18
  Speaker 7: 34 books were brought into the courtroom, Nancy. Remember this.
• 32:21
  Speaker 7: 34 books, and they brought up book after book after
• 32:24
  Speaker 7: book to the mistress. And they'd say, go to page
• 32:27
  Speaker 7: 42 and read line 10. And the defense argued, and
• 32:31
  Speaker 7: they likely presented this argument before the judge during sentencing, is, well,
• 32:36
  Speaker 7: they picked and chose the text messages. They didn't present
• 32:39
  Speaker 7: the whole picture. They chose the most inflammatory ones to
• 32:44
  Speaker 7: the jury. There were other text messages that weren't as bad,
• 32:46
  Speaker 7: where they didn't speak badly of his wife. At the end,
• 32:49
  Speaker 7: clearly it didn't matter because they found him guilty and
• 32:52
  Speaker 7: the judge issued the sentence. But that's a part of
• 32:54
  Speaker 7: this trial that we'll never forget.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: She got some mud on her too. I'm very surprised
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: they didn't charge her, Nate Eaton. How come?
• 33:01
  Speaker 7: Well, she went on the stand and we thought maybe
• 33:04
  Speaker 7: she got immunity. Maybe she cut a deal with the prosecutor,
• 33:07
  Speaker 7: but she did not. She came forward. She testified on
• 33:11
  Speaker 7: their behalf. And I think that's probably one of the
• 33:13
  Speaker 7: main reasons they haven't charged her is she was so cooperative.
• 33:16
  Speaker 7: She admitted that what she was doing was bad. She
• 33:18
  Speaker 7: said that she knew nothing about the murder and that
• 33:21
  Speaker 7: the last time she ever spoke with Caleb Flynn was
• 33:24
  Speaker 7: that final text message before Ashley Flynn was shot. She
• 33:27
  Speaker 7: cut all communication off afterward and then cooperated with the authorities.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: Oh, like I'm supposed to give her a gold star
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: for that. Listen to her.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: I just wish I didn't say this. I didn't mean it.
• 33:43
  Speaker 5: It says.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: Says I want to kill her, Caleb. Who said that?
• 33:48
  Speaker 11: Me.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Next message.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: I said it so bad. Next message.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: He said that makes two of us. That's from Courtroom Insider.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: That's Nate Eaton. So Nate Eaton, you're kind of painting
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: her as if she's pristine as a lily. Covered in
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: dew in the early morning. B.S. She just said in writing,
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: I want to kill her.
• 34:18
  Speaker 7: You're right. I'm not defending her in any way, Nancy,
• 34:21
  Speaker 7: other than the fact that she came forward and said,
• 34:23
  Speaker 7: I'm willing to testify against this guy. She said she
• 34:26
  Speaker 7: didn't mean that text message. And maybe Caleb's defense would
• 34:30
  Speaker 7: have been she was more involved than we thought. But
• 34:33
  Speaker 7: he didn't want to throw her under the bus because
• 34:35
  Speaker 7: they never accused her of anything different. So, yeah, I
• 34:40
  Speaker 7: don't know what it was, but she was on the
• 34:42
  Speaker 7: stand for five hours and she hasn't spoken to the media.
• 34:45
  Speaker 7: She hasn't said anything other than leaving the courthouse and
• 34:48
  Speaker 7: she's moved away from Ohio.
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she needs to move somewhere where there's not an
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: extradition treaty. OK, in court today, the defendant whining, crying,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: begging for forgiveness. You know who he brings to mind?
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: Does anybody remember Dahlia DiPolito? You've got to see this.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: Is your husband Michael?
• 35:10
  Speaker 5: Okay, I'm sorry to tell you, man, he's been killed.
• 35:13
  Speaker 7: He's been killed, man.
• 35:15
  Speaker 10: Try to calm down.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: Oh, it goes on and on and on. She tried
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: to kill him twice. That we know of. That's from ABC.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: The crying and the hysterics, Nate Eaton, that he... put on,
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: the show he put on during the body cam video
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: during the interrogation shows his duplicitous nature. He will lie
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: at will and is pretty darn good at it. So
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: the judge listened to none of that today. He is
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: a known liar and a proven killer and the disregard
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: for his wife and his children as evidenced in those
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: texts to me were the final blow. What I can't
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: get out of my mind, Nate Eaton, is the autopsy photos.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Looking at the victim in life, this beautiful young mom
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: with her world ahead of her, and those autopsy photos.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: And isn't it true that he was basically a leech,
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: that her parents had given them money?
• 36:25
  Speaker 7: They were giving them half the business, Nancy. This is
• 36:28
  Speaker 7: a a family business that her parents had built up
• 36:32
  Speaker 7: very successful business. And as a gift, they were going
• 36:36
  Speaker 7: to give Ashley and Caleb half of the business and
• 36:38
  Speaker 7: Ashley's sister and her husband, the other half they had
• 36:41
  Speaker 7: prepared for this. And this was going to bring him
• 36:44
  Speaker 7: three to $ 400, 000, maybe even more per year. And so
• 36:49
  Speaker 7: he had it all. He had a beautiful wife. He
• 36:52
  Speaker 7: had two children. He had a successful career. Thanks to
• 36:55
  Speaker 7: her and her family. He was set. And so I
• 36:59
  Speaker 7: think that's why he saw himself in a corner that
• 37:01
  Speaker 7: he couldn't do anything if he wanted to be with
• 37:04
  Speaker 7: his mistress. And so that's why he ended up doing
• 37:07
  Speaker 7: what he did. So all of that, I'm sure, came
• 37:09
  Speaker 7: into play. And this family who has been there every
• 37:11
  Speaker 7: day sitting through this trial as members of their church
• 37:14
  Speaker 7: have been praying in the hallway before every day in
• 37:18
  Speaker 7: a circle asking for support for this family. I mean,
• 37:22
  Speaker 7: they're just such a great family, so full of faith.
• 37:25
  Speaker 7: And to have this happen to them, it's just so heartbreaking.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: My star, she is beautiful. Ashley is just beautiful on
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: the inside and the outside. Dr. Janie, I don't get it.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: He had everything, this beautiful home, a loving and beautiful wife,
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: the children, the parents were, her parents were giving them
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: tons of money, hand over fist.
• 37:55
  Speaker 7: What?
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: What's not to be happy about? They're all healthy. They're alive.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: I don't get it. Why is it so hard for
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: people to look around and go, wow, I remember when
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: I used to pray for all this to happen to
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: me and now it's happened. I've got this home. I've
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: got these children. I got it all. Unhappy. That's kind
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: of a rich people problem. Unhappy. I'm so sad. that
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: I'm living in this gorgeous home with this beautiful wife
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: and these children. I don't get it. What's to be
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: unhappy about?
• 38:33
  Speaker 8: You know, I think a lot of times when these
• 38:35
  Speaker 8: situations happen, Nancy, the question is always, well, he could
• 38:39
  Speaker 8: have just filed for divorce, right, if he wasn't happy.
• 38:42
  Speaker 8: And why does a man kill the mother of his
• 38:44
  Speaker 8: children instead of just walking out and finding his happiness? And,
• 38:48
  Speaker 8: you know, what I would say to that is because
• 38:49
  Speaker 8: divorce would have cost him the one thing that he
• 38:51
  Speaker 8: wasn't willing to give up, and that's his image. You know,
• 38:55
  Speaker 8: let's look at what the prosecutors laid out. Leaving Ashley
• 38:57
  Speaker 8: meant leaving the family business, as we just outlined. It
• 39:00
  Speaker 8: meant stepping off the stage of the church. being known
• 39:04
  Speaker 8: as the worship pastor who left his wife or a
• 39:06
  Speaker 8: 24-year-old from the worship team, I would imagine that in
• 39:10
  Speaker 8: his mind, there were two ways out of this marriage.
• 39:13
  Speaker 8: One where he's the villain and the one where he's
• 39:15
  Speaker 8: the victim. And the jury found he picked the one
• 39:18
  Speaker 8: where he gets the sympathy.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: And that's entitlement, Nancy.
• 39:21
  Speaker 8: It's the belief that you should get the new life
• 39:24
  Speaker 8: without paying the price of your own choices.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: Divorce, right?
• 39:28
  Speaker 8: It would have cost him his reputation. He decided Ashley
• 39:30
  Speaker 8: should pay for it instead. And, you know, and I
• 39:33
  Speaker 8: think about the women, you know, who watch this, like
• 39:35
  Speaker 8: here's what I would want women to take from that
• 39:37
  Speaker 8: is like, watch how a man handles being wrong about
• 39:39
  Speaker 8: small things. Like someone who can't tolerate being the bad
• 39:42
  Speaker 8: guy ever about anything is showing you something very important.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: David Sarney, what strikes you the most about this case?
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: In all your years at NYPD, facts jump out at
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: you as being more relevant or more probative than others.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: What hit you in the face?
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: Well, the 911 call.
• 40:01
  Speaker 6: I think the 911 call was such a big issue.
• 40:03
  Speaker 6: You know, when you hear it, and that's where you
• 40:07
  Speaker 6: get all the information you have for this case, is
• 40:10
  Speaker 6: the initial contact with a 911 operator is and the witness,
• 40:14
  Speaker 6: the quintessential witness who was at scene. And what always
• 40:18
  Speaker 6: stuck out in my head, and the little things matter,
• 40:21
  Speaker 6: when he said two shots. And during that investigation, when
• 40:26
  Speaker 6: the preliminary investigation starts or the primary responding officers get there,
• 40:31
  Speaker 6: they say a lot. And they ask questions. And one
• 40:34
  Speaker 6: thing that stuck out to me is one of the
• 40:35
  Speaker 6: officers asked one of the responding EMS units, how long
• 40:40
  Speaker 6: do you think she's been dead for? Because they had
• 40:42
  Speaker 6: a real presumption that this individual, the witness, was actually
• 40:47
  Speaker 6: a suspect. And that's what I saw in this. Every
• 40:49
  Speaker 6: little piece, and that's what it is, you take little
• 40:51
  Speaker 6: pieces and you build the case. And that's why this
• 40:53
  Speaker 6: case got and found Caleb guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: You know, another thing I noticed, David Sorney, you know,
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: when your children are sick or when they're hurt, I always,
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: I remember when John David, my son, had a horrible,
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: horrible blow to the head. And I picked him up
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: and I carried him down three flights of stairs to
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: the car and took him to the ER. What struck
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: me is that he never seemed to touch the victim.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: He said he went in and rubbed her leg and
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: put a towel on her head. What? But never did
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: he pick her up and hold her or try to
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: perform CPR. And that really struck me. That really struck me, David.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: Because he shot her.
• 41:39
  Speaker 7: And that's why.
• 41:40
  Speaker 6: And he tried to explain himself away, what he did.
• 41:44
  Speaker 6: And everything he said made no sense. And that was
• 41:47
  Speaker 6: the whole point of this whole investigation. The 901 call,
• 41:51
  Speaker 6: how he responded to the officers on scene, how he
• 41:53
  Speaker 6: spoke to investigators, all the things did not add up.
• 41:56
  Speaker 7: That's why.
• 41:57
  Speaker 6: Detectives and investigators are trying to find the truth. It's
• 42:00
  Speaker 6: not about emotion, not about speculation. You find the truth.
• 42:02
  Speaker 6: And the truth came out with this. You didn't need
• 42:05
  Speaker 6: the firearms. He equivocated about the firearm, too, because he
• 42:08
  Speaker 6: said he told him about the guns that he had
• 42:09
  Speaker 6: in his house, except for the nine millimeter that he
• 42:13
  Speaker 6: kept in the gun and his console in the truck.
• 42:15
  Speaker 6: And again, the piece also, if someone is coming in
• 42:19
  Speaker 6: to burglarize your apartment, your residence, your garage, it is
• 42:22
  Speaker 6: going to be torn up. That console looked immaculate. So
• 42:26
  Speaker 6: how did that individual know to pull a gun from inside?
• 42:29
  Speaker 6: And that is the only item that we've ever believed
• 42:31
  Speaker 6: to have been stolen from the house was that firearm.
• 42:35
  Speaker 6: That's another thing that stuck out to me. How he
• 42:37
  Speaker 6: responded to his kids and dealing with the kids after
• 42:39
  Speaker 6: the incident. The freezing. The dogs not barking. You know,
• 42:43
  Speaker 6: there were a lot of little itty-bitty pieces. But our idea,
• 42:47
  Speaker 6: and investigators have to do, is tie up those loose
• 42:49
  Speaker 6: ends with facts, with evidence to support what they believed
• 42:53
  Speaker 6: at the time that Caleb Flynn was responsible and is
• 42:56
  Speaker 6: responsible to murder his wife.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: In the last hours.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: Judge Jeanine Pratt brings down the hammer on the so-called
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: American Idol star, Caleb Flynn. And what I learned after
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: my very first murder conviction is that, yes, you get
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: what you want. You get the conviction. You get the sentence.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: And then you turn around and you look in that
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: courtroom and everybody walks out with a broken heart because
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: nothing can ever fix it. Tonight, we remember an American hero,
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: Lieutenant Eddie Mays, Bernie P.D., Missouri, dead in the line
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: of duty after 30 years, leaving behind his wife, now widow, Jamie,
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: and children, Aaron and Candace. American hero, Lieutenant Eddie Mays.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: Thank you to our guests for being with us tonight.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: And please join us in our thoughts and prayers for
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: Ashley's family, because now the trial and the sentencing is over,
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: and they have the rest of their lives to live
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: without her. Nancy Grace, signing off for tonight, but I'll
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: see you tomorrow night. And until then, good night, friend.