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CLASSIC: Weird Wars Fought For Dumb Reasons · Ridiculous History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, Noel, riddle me this. What do a camel, a bucket,
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: and an ear have in common?
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: An ear like on our head or like an ear
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: of corn? You know what?
• 0:11
  Speaker 3: Prescient? Prescient? This is a classic episode. Just making sure
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: I understand the assignment. Riddle you that each was at
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: some point responsible for starting a war. So why don't
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: we dive into this classic episode about weird wars that
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: were fought for stupid reasons.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: War.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: To paraphraze, the common figure of speech is heck, it's
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: not a it's not a pretty thing. It's been an
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: unfortunately common occurrence throughout the span of human history. Some
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: people will even argue that it is an economic necessity.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: But today we are here to tell you that war
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: can also be ridiculous. Hi, I'm Ben.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: I am no Ben. You gamer? You a fair weather
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: gamer like me?
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: A fair weather gamer.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: There.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: I've had some pretty intense gaming experiences, But I don't
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: play video games every day. I mean I don't play games.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: That's right. It kicks you out of kindergarten because I
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: don't play it don't play. But yeah, there's another good war.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: It never changes that's the opening line for the Fallout games,
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: which I'm a big fan of. And you know, the
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: point being that the war depicted in those games is
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: a future slash past post apocalyptic nuclear war, but it
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: never changes because it's all about the human costs and
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: about the stuff that goes on on the ground and
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: the way humans interact with each other. And in our
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: story today, animals.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Yes, animals, of course we're we're referring to actual non
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: human animals. But we like to begin every show with
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: a shout out to our favorite party animal, super producer,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Casey Pegrim. So today we want to open the story with,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: as you said, Noel, a story of an animal. This
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: is a little bit of a legend. But travel back
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: with us to four ninety four CE. There were two
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: Arab tribes that were tangentially related.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: Right with the dag Lebe and the Bakar.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Perfect hold one man, I'm bad, not bad, not bad
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: at all, not bad at all.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Come at us, Internet, Please come.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: At us politely or or or with a sense of humor.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: That's always good. That's great. That goes a long way
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: with us. So this this happens in the in Arabia
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: in the pre Islamic era, and supposedly the story starts
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: when a woman named al Basos went to visit her niece,
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: a woman named Jalila bent Mura Jalila. Although she was
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: a member of the Baker tribe, this game be a
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: little confusing. She was married to a guy named Kulib
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: who was the leader of a different tribe, the Toglub tribe.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Right, that's right. He was apparently a real pill about
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: you know, ownership of stuff, which would have been a
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: pretty common trait back in those days. I mean, you
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: gotta you know, what's mine is mine. It's like a
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: very mad Max kind of world where you gotta protect
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: your stuff or else you're gonna get got.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Do you get gotten or do you go get those
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: are the choices.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: Are you a go getter? Are you a get got her?
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: And this guy club, as you said, only says he's
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: a bit of a pill. He saw an unidentified camel
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: in his territory and he shot it with an arrow,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: But he did not know that this camel was owned
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: by a refugee who was under the protection of Albasos,
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: the lady we mentioned earlier, Right, And the man's name
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: was Sad bin Shum's I believe.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: That sounds good. Okay, great, quick question right up front. Yeah,
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: you see an unidentified camel, you know you see never mind,
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: it feels like it. We don't know what that is.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: Why do you shoot it? Why don't you just wrangle
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: it and take it? Why would you why would you
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: kill a perfectly good ship of the desert? I guess
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: because you make bad decisions? Because well that's yeah, that's
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: the theme here for sure. So Arrow is loosed into
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: said camel, and owner of said camel, Albe seuss Uh,
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: wasn't having it.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Furious. She is livid. She is screaming, ranting, and raving
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: about this. She helps her nephew Jossis that she has
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: been personally humiliated. Jossis is also mad. He hears about it.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: He gets steamed too, and he goes to the leader
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: of the Toglub tribe, this guy cool yob right, and
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: he kills him. He kills his brother in law.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Yikes, oh man. And this essentially, no, it did. Yeah,
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: it's not hedge bets here triggered trigger warning war, trigger
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: a war that lasted, As the legend goes, forty years
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: between these two tribes and the idea of warring tribes
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: in this part of the country. It remains to this day,
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: does it not? Yeah, it does.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: And what we see next after this confrontation in this
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: murder is a series of increasingly terrible events. So one
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: of Baker's allies thinks that this is kind of dumb.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: We can't be killing real people. Bull over just one
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: you see roaming around the desert. You are unidentified roaming camel.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: What do you think? I like it? Okay, I don't
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: like it. It's it's it sucks. But yeah, I like
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: I like your I like the cut of your jib.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: You like your camel's identified. That's one thing I've always
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: respected about you.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: I do. But there's more bloodshed before we've we've triggered
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: this this forty and this number forty comes into play
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: at least in the places we've read this. So there
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: is another leader of the Todd Lab who is the
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: brother of the of the leader who was killed the chieftain,
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: right is that is that? Can we use that term here?
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: His name is al moja Haal al Mohallal. I like that,
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: and he wants to to get to you. Snit this
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: in the bud. You know, let's do a truce. And
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: there was apparently I'm reading this really great article that
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: sums us up beautifully on revolvi dot com. There was
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: a tradition here that you would send one of your own,
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: putting your bloodline at risk, you know, as an emissary
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: to make peace. So he sent his son o Jair
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: to parley with the Bakar and they killed him right away.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: This camel beef is intense. That's good. I like that.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's because I'm hungry.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: But it was completely expected that when o jer traveled
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: to Soush for peace, he would be forgiven because they
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: were obeying the traditional rules and mores for this kind
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: of situation. But almohallhall as you said, completely broke murdered
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: o Jeer. And then this is where the number forty
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: comes back into play, right because the father who is
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: mourning this alahaithibin Abad recites a poem of forty verses.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was the one that wasn't having it. That
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: was like, come on, guys, we can fix this. But
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: now they've crossed the line, they've killed his son. He's
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: just free forming this misery poem, and it all becomes
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: kind of part of the war. He gets his men
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: to shave their heads, to shave their horses manes and
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: tails off, and now that becomes a tradition to an
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Arabic culture. It's a sign of you grieving until you
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: have gotten Here's the kicker here, revenge, Because we all
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: know revenge is a sticky wicket because even when you
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: get it, or the perception of revenge, you don't really
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: feel better. And it's something that you just kind of
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: can go on seeking everywhere you see, you see it,
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: do you see what I mean? I mean, yeah, well,
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: I think it's it's true.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: You know, revenge is as damaging to the person seeking
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: vengeance as it is to their target. Often this war,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: which continued, as we said, for forty years again over
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: a RC absolutely led to a massacre of the Toaglub
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: tribe and almost into the tribe altogether. The last few
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: Taglab when they were still alive. The tribal leader, he mentioned,
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: the poet Alharith ibin Abad, said his famous quote, I
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: will not talk to Taglab until Earth talks to me.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: In other words, never never, yeah, because Earth don't talk,
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: Earth don't talk.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: No. But yeah, the thing that's interesting about this and
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: as it's a good set piece kind of kick off
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: this episode is the term basis war kind of became
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: a stand in for a pointless and stupid war.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: A pointless beef. Yes, yeah, there is a happy ending
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: to Boss's war.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: The way the story goes, and again this is a
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: story is that when the Toglub tribe thought it was
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: going to be the end of days for them, in desperation,
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: they dug a trench along a road where this Alhariz
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: guy was passing by, and a man from the tribe
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: hid there in the trench. And while the guy was
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: riding by, this member of the Toglub tribe recited a
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: poem asking for forgiveness and technically fulfilling the condition of
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: the earth, speaking to what. Here's tricksy, here's the crazy thing.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: It worked, and the war ended.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: It is very strange, Okay.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Poetry seems to play a very powerful role here.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: Well here's the thing though, too, As is the case
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: for a lot of these larger than life historical accounts,
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: there's more than a little liberty taken right. You know.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: There's a great article from IO nine called ten the
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: ten most Insignificant Wars in History of which this is
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: one in the list, and they're kind of asking how
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: much this is true. What they've discovered and we have
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: confirmed and what we've read as well is that, yeah,
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: there most likely was a war in four ninety four
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: CE when stuff like this happened in this flavor. But
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: this notion of a war lasting for or this war
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: lasting forty years is probably a little bit overstating the case.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Have you ever heard of any other wars that lasted
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: forty years?
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: Been?
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: Wasn't there a little thing called the yeah named in
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: a burst of creating a burst of creativity, we got
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: forty verses in this sadness poem, one verse a year,
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: one verse the year. And then there's another story in
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: this inine article that's very similar from around the same
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: time that talks about these two particularly warring tribes. Because
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: there were a lot of tribes. This was a tribal culture, right, right.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: This was not just like a left and right situation.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: There were tons of these factions, you know. And another
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: story talks about two tribes that went to war for
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: forty because they couldn't decide which had won a horse race.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: And this is just the beginning. If you were a
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: fan of our Weird People who Built Weird Stuff episode,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: which we still are receiving emails about, and thank you
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: very much. Then you are going to enjoy this grab bag.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Today we are inspired to explore other wars that began
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: for ridiculous reasons, and also along the way we will
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: help determine how much truth there is or how little
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: truth there is to these stories.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: What do you Noel, Well, I just want to like
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: backtrack a little bit or backpedal rather. I sat up
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: at the beginning of the show that a lot of
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: these had to do with animals, which is very true,
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: but also inanimate objects and severed body parts. Yes, yeah,
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: that's true. How don't you go first give.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Us seven body if you want to go body parts? Yeah, yeah,
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: all right, Okay, this is one that really stood out
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: to me. There was a war between Great Britain and
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Spain that began in October seventeen thirty nine, and it
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: eventually merged into the War of the Austrian Secession. This
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: war today is known as the War of Jenkins.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: Ear it was this Jenkins, Oh.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: Yes, Jenkins, Jenkins Jenkins the Welsh master mariner Robert Jenkins,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: who is now slightly less famous than his own ear.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: So he was born around the seventeen thirties forties. He
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: was returning from a trading voyage in the West Indies
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: in charge of a brig named Rebecca in seventeen thirty
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: one when his ship was stopped and boarded by a
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: privateer a ship the law Isabella on suspicion of smuggling.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: And here's where the story gets into allegedly territory. The
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: commander of Isabela was a guy named Juan de Leon Fandinho,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: and he had Jenkins tied up to a mast. He
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: sliced one of Jenkinson's ears off with his sword and
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: then told him to tell the British King the same
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: will happen to him if he's caught doing the same.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this reminds me of reminds me of that scene
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: in Reservoir Dogs where mister Blonde played by Michael Madson
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: is torturing the poor tied up police officer undercover police officer,
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: and he slices his ear off and he's dancing around
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: at him with his severed ear, pours gasoline on him
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: and all that stuff. Yeah, I wonder if I wonder
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: if that was inspired by the War of jenkins Ear.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: We can only hope I would love it if.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: In an interview later, Quentin Tarantino says, okay, the you know,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: the parrots out of the pouch. This parrot's out of
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: the purse or whatever. This is entirely my exploration.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: Of the War of jenkins Ear. Yeah, but it was
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: a real thing.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: So he survives, Jenkins survives, and which point out it
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: was his left ear according to the story. There's another
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: version of the story that was published in the Pennsylvania
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Gazette in seventeen thirty one. Same year, it was October,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: a few months after the event, and it says that
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: it was actually a Spanish lieutenant known as Dorsey who
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: cut off Jenkins's left ear, and then another Spanish crew
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: member took it and tore it off, but then gave
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: it back to him and said take that to the king.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: I know, grizzly stuff.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: Did we talk about the groundwork for this e ear? Beef?
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: What were they what were they fighting for?
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: There was a lot of context already here, right, because.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: This has got Southern roots, don't it like our neck
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: of the woods.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, break it down a little bit, well, just just that.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: It was a conflict between land. That was that the
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Spanish and English were at odds over in South Carolina
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: and Florida. But this had been going on for like
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: hundreds of years, right, and then you had the formal
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: conflict starting in seventeen thirty nine, and this is you know,
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: Georgia had been founded as a colony by this point.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can find excellent article on Georgia Encyclopedia dot
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: org about this by Julie and Sweet, and it really
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: I think drives home the significance of this for colonial
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Georgia because in a lot of these cases, we're going
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: to see, with these various wars, there might be one
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: thing that happened that is a good story and so
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: we named the war or after that, but there's almost
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: always a ton of other context or other factors that
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: have commingled and driven the two nations of conflict into
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: an open war.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and the arrow that shot the she camel in
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: the neck?
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, there we go, exactly a nice way to
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: bring it back around nol So Robert Jenkins, we should
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: also point out what he was doing when he was smuggling,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: he was also raiding Spanish ships. That's why he was
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: being attacked and humiliated, but he did not die. They
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: after they let him go and with or without giving
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: him his ear, which remains a subject of debate today.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: He made it back to Britain and in June of
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: the same year he told the King about what happened.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: He gave a deposition that was passed to the Duke
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: of Newcastle, who at that time was the Secretary for
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: the Southern Colonies, so in charge of Georgia as well,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: and he said that the Spanish captain quote took hold
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: of his left ear with his cutlass, slit it down,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: and then another of the Spaniards took hold of it
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: and tore it off, but gave him the piece of
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: his ea.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: Again, what do you think it would sound like to
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: have your ear ripped off?
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: It's probably like a wet lower sound actually, yeah, like
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: a no. No, it's wetter than that.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: I think it would also, I would think it would
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: start low and then go high. No, I'm gonna rip.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: It might go the other way around, because as you're
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: losing the year, I don't know.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: And then you scream. You definitely scream. Oh, and what
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: would it sound like to you?
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: Wow? If that doesn't what I mean, that's okay to
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: you in your own ear hole, that would be all
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: that was left. We have gotten grizzly with this.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: I think that's very interesting from a scientific perspective.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let us know what you think you ever had
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: your ear torn off?
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, don't do it just for this, No, please let
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: us know. So after this, there's another there's another myth here.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: You'll hear claims that in seventeen thirty eight, just before
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: the war formally begins, drink and tells his story in
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: an embellished version before members of the House of Commons,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: and then part way through the story check this out,
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: he pulls out a jar where he's got his pickled ear. Yeah.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: I think that's so weird. There's no proof though.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: Well do you think, because in those days it's something
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: like that happened, do you think there was any hope
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: that you'd ever get it reattached? It was pretty much
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: just like it's done, right, Yeah, it's done. The best
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: you can do is put it in a jar to
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: show people.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: At put if it's still if it's still like partially attached,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: depend on how it was cut, it would be possible
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: maybe to sew it back together and hope for the best.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: Right, But chances are I would just rot it would
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: like it would it would not? Yeah, yeah, right to us.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: If you just ripped your ear off and then sewed
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: it back, tell us what it's out.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: With medical science, you know they can help you out.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: Back back in these days that the jar was about
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: the best you could hope for. You keep it on
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: the nightstand.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: You use it as like a like a table setting,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: piece of ice breaker.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, good conversation starter. Yeah, what was the results?
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: He has the thing too about these wars again, so
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: much context, so much conflict. You get a name like
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: this attached to something because it's got it's got hootspot,
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: you know it. It gives it a sense of grandiosity
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: or whatever. It got legs, it's got well yeah, or ears.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah whatever, Lets you have one ear.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: But what was the outcome?
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: So eventually, whether or not he actually appeared with his
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: severity or in front of the House of Commons, the
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Parliament begins pushing the King to seek compensation, redress apologies
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: from Spain.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: It's gonna be a theme in many of these conflicts. Yeah,
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: I don't think we got into it with the camel situation,
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: but I bet you there was. Maybe they didn't. They
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: were so incense. There wasn't even discussion of pay me
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: for the loss of my camel. It was much more
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: based on just sheer outrage and the principles.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: And they tried to send out right, Yeah, it's a shame.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: But so they did attempt diplomacy. But by seventeen thirty
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: nine that was clearly not going to be a viable path.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: So King George said in July tenth he told his
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: Admiralty Board to start quote initiating reprisals against Spain.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: So at this point the Governor of the British Colony
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: of Georgia, James Oglethorpe, got involved, and he amassed some
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: forces and went into Florida, took down some Spanish forts.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: We've got your Fort Picolata, and you got your fort
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: San Francisco. Dupopo, puopo. I'm gonna go with poopo, p upo. Okay,
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna go with that. And yeah, I went into
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: parts of Florida, Saint Augustine along the Saint John's River,
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: and again fantastic information coming from Georgia and psyc the
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: Peda dot org and his aim was to cut off
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: supplies to the Spanish and you know, kind of head
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: them off of the pass and get those supplies from
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: the forts. Then the Spanish are going to arrive the
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: forces that were deployed in this situation. And that's kind
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: of what his whole strategy was.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: There, right right, and denying access to resources is a
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: tried and true method of warfare.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: But I guess for whatever reason, it didn't quite work
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: out the way he wanted and he ended up having
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: to kind of take a step back and just seeing
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: where the pieces fell. When the Spanish finally did show
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: up and invade.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: And that happened in the summer of seventeen forty two
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Spanish forces landed on the tip of Saint Simon's Island.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: They got together to just the tip, just the tip,
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: they got together to attack Fort Frederica. Relation to our
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: longtime friend Matt Frederick or maybe.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: There is you know, know, we have to check.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: But so Oglethorpe was having already having a problem with
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: organizing his army. I believe he had a lot of
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: diverse commanders and the siege that he had an attempted
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: didn't work because he could not coordinate the navel and
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: land based assaults. But as soon as the English forces
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: got word of the Spanish parties arriving, I think they
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: found a scouting party Oglethorpe aggressively led a charge against
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: the Spanish.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: What did they do? Well, I got one for you
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: in a question. Yeah, what's the difference between a battle
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: and a skirmish?
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: A battle in a skirmish? You know, I don't know
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: whether there is a technical, hard and fast difference.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: It's like there between a fight versus a scrap.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: You know, right right, or an argument versus a spat
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: a tiff.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: Perhaps, Yeah, I think that's what it is.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: So I would imagine if we're just speculating, anythink you
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: can go with me on this. If we're just speculating,
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: I would I would imagine that a skirmish is properly
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: lower in terms of number of people injured and number
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: of people killed. You know what I mean, It's like
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: shots fired.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: Well, my friend Webster describes a skirmish as an episode
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: of irregular or unpremeditated fighting, especially between small or outlying
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: parts of armies.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: Fleets, so ships in the night they bump into each other,
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: not the big show.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: They go, holy smokes, they kill it's them, yeah, exactly,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: and they freak out and then people die. Half the
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: people scream kill, half the people scream run.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: And you know, I'm sure we know this too. You
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: can use skirmish as a verb. You can, you can,
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: you can you know they's skirmishing? Mm hm yes, yes.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: And also this is American English, which I love because
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: it means we can use almost anything as a verb.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: We can say that you got jenkins or you jinkins that.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: For our purposes here, yeah, we're not a military history
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: deep dive show. The point being is that all of this,
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: all of these skirmishes and battles and fracases and TIFFs
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: and what have you and deaths all resulted from a
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: smuggler being kind of tortured, mister Blond style.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: The story of a smuggler.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: That's the thing, right, because the story is way cooler
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: because I'm already kind of getting a little snoozed out
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: going through every little the stories.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: But the stories are important in that they are the
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: easiest way to motivate absolute population. Ultimately, we fast forward
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: a bit. The end of this war occurs at the
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: Treaty of ax La Chappelle in seventeen forty eight, and
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: it returns all the colonial claims to the previous owners,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: and the two nations unofficially agree on the border between
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Georgia and Florida. They name it, they say the Saint
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: John River the Saint John's River rather And because of
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: this war, because of ogle Thorpe's actions, and because, at
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: least in some aspect, because a guy named Robert Jenkins
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: got his ear cut off, Georgia remained an English possession. So, uh,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: you know, if somebody, if your friend gets their ear
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: cut off, don't don't feel like you have to wage
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: war over it.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, don't go crying over sliced ears. Yeah you cry.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: I'd cry. I don't know if it was my ear
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: or the ear of a loved one.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: I would go into like deep meditation techniques to try
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: to not feel it. They got to a hospital or bandage.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: I think, what sets what's what sets these stories not
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: a part at all, what puts them together, what joins
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: them is that it's these kind of simple acts that
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: have the power to push humans in positions to create huge, horrible,
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: long line consequences and conflicts to their limits. And they
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: get it done. But as you say, we've talked about
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: this constantly with these powder keg moments, and like history,
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: you always hear about the moment, but then the details
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: are always there, the context is.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Always so, and we find the moment retroactively too often.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: You know, we have somebody who looks back when they're
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: writing about an event that occurredreds of years ago, and
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: they go, oh, it's because that it's that fart, that's
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: what it was. But we have more examples, and no,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: you found one that really fascinated me.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: All right, Well, I had two, one about an inanimate
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: object and one about an animal. Which one would you
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: like to hear? Oh?
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Man, okay, let's let's go to the inanimate object and
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: then because it'd be nice to circle back with the animal.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I'm down with that. The inanimate object in question,
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: my friend, is a bucket.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: A bucket?
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: A bucket?
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Could I ask you just this is an honest question.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Is this thing gonna end up being called the bucket War?
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, or the War of the Buckets, or you know,
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: the the Skirmish of the pale I love it, ok yeah, whatever,
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: But this one was pretty gnarly, you know, as was
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: the we didn't talk about deaths in the jenkins Ear War.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: A lot of people died. It's cool, very tragedy, not cool.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: I figured as much. No, not, I mean cool, like
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: the cool day that it's meant like cool. We got
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: that out. We admitted that war is tragic or people die.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: It's heck, as you say, is that an acronym? What
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: is heck? It's a good, good, good, clean Christian boy
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: stand in for the other word. Yep, yeah, which we
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: can say on the show is a PG thirteen show.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: I know, but I like saying heck.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: I know. It's very endearing. Thank you.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: So the bucket War, the bucket War. When did this happen?
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: Well, I was in thirteen twenty five. And this also
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: involves clashes between let's call them clans, I guess, for
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: lack of a better No, it's fine, we want to
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: need a better one.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: We're gonna go with clans, family, family, communities, right, or
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: they're bonded through a biological relationship, right.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: This is right, this is correct. And you know medieval society,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: family was everything, right, and you would organize around family,
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: and it was all about your house. And you know
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: that you know and I'm just using Game of Thrones
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: rules here, but I'm pretty sure that was all based
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: on our boy. George or Martin did his homework so
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: we didn't have to.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just check out his audio books.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: You need to finish those books though, George. Come on, man,
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: the show is happening.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: It's it's never coming out.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So this particular clash of clans was between the
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: the Ghibelines and the Gelfs.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: He sound like made up Doctor Who Aliens.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: Yes, the Guelfs. Maybe it was Gelflings, but that was
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: in the dark Crystal, I think. Yeah, the little puppet
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: guys and the bad guys were the slee Stacks. That
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: that's close. They were the Skexies. Skexies what a slee Stacks.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: Slee Stacks are from Land of the Lost. Do you
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: remember that show?
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the dimator kind of thing where it was like
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: time travel. They accidentally stepped through a portal into the
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: Land of the Lost.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's always explained in the theme song, Oh
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: I love it, I love it. They're like we were
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: in a boat and then you're living in a Land
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: of the Lost. Yeah, there are slea Stacks were evil
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: creatures who would evolve to anthropomorphoid forms from reptile.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, well there's none of that in those particular conflicts.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: This is strictly human. No reptilians or weird little elf
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: people fashioned by the Jim Henson studio. Well, buckets, right,
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: definitely buckets. So here's the thing. I might need little
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: help from you with this, because these are always just
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: like a bit of a mind sure, a mind frack.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: You've got these warring sides that support different head honchos
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: of God. Right, yes, so we've got the Holy Roman
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: Emperor Frederick Barbosa, who was also the King of Germany,
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: and then you have the Pope.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, yeah, you specifically have Pope John twenty two.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: All this began are kicked off in earnest or this
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: conflict in the region when the Holy Roman Emperor Frederick
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: Barbosa invaded Italy, and he did this with what he
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: believed was God's blessing, as like like crowning him for
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: all intents and purposes as God's conduit on Earth. But
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: that didn't fly super well with others who believed that
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: the Pope was the only one that was crowned with
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: God's conduitness.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: And that was the normal thing, right, that was the
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: established norm. And you were telling me that the Gelphs
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: and the Ghibelines were on different sides of this.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: That is absolutely correct, because you see, the Ghibelines supported
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: the Emperor, the Holy Roman Emperor in this conflict, and
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: the Guelphs supported the Pope, and Italy was just a
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: use agglomeration. He taught me that word ben and I'm
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: gonna keep using it. Of these little city states kind
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: of and like the story we talked about with the
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: Albasis War and honestly with jenkins Ear, you've got these
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: folks that think they own the border. Like if you're
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: at a border area, you're like, no, this is mine.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Because there's no official lines. It's probably based on some
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: geographical thing, but that's all up for debate, especially when
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: you start beefing with each other. And so eventually Frederick
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: was ousted, They kicked him out. He was done. He
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: now the Pope ultimately ranged supreme in these early disagreements,
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: but that did not mean that there were not sympathizers
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: that remained. So he kind of had his ultimate fu
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: moment by leaving the country kind of completely divided. Right,
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: So you still have these warring city states, and then
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: you had these opposing you know groups. I think it's
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: the pope who is the direct communicator with God. I
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: think it's the Holy Roman m for now we fight.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: And it's complicated because with these shifting borders for these
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: city states, one state could largely support the Holy Roman
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Emperor and one state could largely support the Pope. And
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: the problem is that these could be very close together,
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: especially in the example of Modina and Bologna.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: Right, yes, and I think at the top of this
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: section I mentioned that this took place in Castello de
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: serraval and in the region that is Emilia Romagna. That's
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: what it would be referred to as today. At the
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: time of this story, they were, as you say, ben
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: Modemia and Bologna.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: And those are barely thirty miles apart, or maybe around
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: thirty thirty one miles apart. So tensions are always always
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: going to be high. They're virtually adjacent to each other.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: It seems like an unsustainable situation. I'm just guessing.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: And here here we are back with lot of skirmishes
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: because they're gonna be caught, They're not going to be
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: full all out wars. They're just gonna be little conflicts
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: between folks standing on opposite sides of the particular borders.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: And this bucket war here we go is just such
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: an event.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: They're raiding farms and they're burning.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: Fields, generally thumbing the nose of the opposition, you know,
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: and just kind of trying to mess them up because
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: they fundamentally disagree with what everything they stand for, and
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: yet they're somehow neighbors. Right, Okay, all right, so Ben,
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: as you say, in thirteen twenty five, we've got these
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: uh what mini fights, these skirmishes, fightlets. Oh yes, we're
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: going with that's that's the new way. And they just
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: keep happening, and then things keep escalating. Then finally in
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: July you've got some of these bolonnaise. I can't say
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: that without getting hungry into delicious.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: So we have our computers up to eight and I
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: want to confess to you and everyone listening, fellow ridiculous historians,
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: when we started saying bolotese, I may have googled bolletes
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: recipe and started planning what to make for dinner.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: Well maybe you know what, maybe we can bump that
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: right on up to lunch because there's a lovely popsa
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: place downstairs, and we've been at it a long time.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Today we owe it to ourselves. Let's treat ourselves. It's
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: Friday anyway, though, as you say, slaughtering folks, burning fields,
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: just making a mess, looting and polluting all that stuff,
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: and they end up taking a bunch of stuff back
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: with them over the border. They keep doing this. They're
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: just doing a lot of damage, really really really reckon
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: the place. And then in September you got some revenge
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: being exacted because some of these troops were captured, and
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: you know, the Modenese had had it. So in under
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: cover of dark, the Modanese soldiers or a group of them,
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: they snuck across the border into the city center and
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: next to something called the San Felice Gate, where they
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: found an oaken bucket filled with loot, with booty that
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: belonged to Modina originally plunder that's right, and said bucket
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: was nabbed, was nicked. They took it and put it
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: under their arms and ran back and showed it off
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: in their city center for all of the Emotonese to see.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: Right, and for the residents of Bologna to see as well,
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: so the people at Bologna are furious and they say,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: give us back that bucket. They better have that stuff
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: we stole earlier at it too. It is pretty hypocritical
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: that they were angry that's something they had stolen, had
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: just been restolen.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's pretty petty and childlike behavior, but again we're
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: seeing that with all these stories, So that's kind of
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: they demanded the return of the bucket. I guess they
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: were more concerned about the booty, but I haven't seen
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: specifically what it was. I'm imagining it's maybe coin plundered
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: from I just picturing like role playing games there all
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: the money. It's just in like sacks that are just
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: littered around the place, emeralds or something. You just kind
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: of step on it and then you hear a kit
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: chi chin sound and then it shows up in your inventory.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: You know what it probably I can tell you what
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: it probably wasn't. It probably was not a religious artifactor
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: or reliquary, because then the war would have been named
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: after that instead of the bucket. Probably just like straight
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: up cash money or fine fine clothing.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And speaking of which, that's when this particular conflict
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: began in earnest On November fifteenth of thirteen twenty five,
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: a guy by the name of Mala Testino del Occio,
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: who was the Lord of Remini, led his people the
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: Bolanese and any allies they had been able to amass
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: to besiege the city state of Mardinia and get that
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: bucket back.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: So ridiculous, man. So they were met by a pretty
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: strong resistant soldiers from Modina, Mantua and Ferrara, as well
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: as some Germans sent by our boy, the Holy Roman
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: Emperor Frederick.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Frederick himself, that's right, but not to be bested
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: the pope in question XXIII. He sent thirty thousand, so
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: they were vastly outnumbered.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's in the additional couple thousand knights on horseback.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: So what we're seeing happen here is a proxy war
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: essentially over a bucket that, again, you know, in defense
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: of the bucket was not empty. So the Modenese, as
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: you said, nol were pretty well out numbered.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, where they have like six thousand troops I think
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: a combination of foot soldiers and horseman as well. And yeah,
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: they went at.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: It and despite those numbers, they really kicked some solid
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: tookts absolutely.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they did something that read where they they disrupted
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: it's called a route. They disrupted the activities and the
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: organization of the larger army. And that's the thing, right, Yeah,
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: smaller force you can get out numbered, but it's a
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: little easier to control maybe and everybody and check your
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: nimble and the larger force. If you can disrupt their
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: communications with this thing called a route, you can cause
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: chaos and their ranks and they're not going to know
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: which way is up.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, and I think that's a very important point, especially
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: for this story. So the Modonese succeeded, but this was
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: a bloody conflict by this point, right.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we had we lost about two thousand
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: on both sides, which I would have just thought it
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: would have just been a total blood bath from the
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: pope led thirty thirty two thousand, you know, against the
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: only seven thousand, But only about two thousand lives were
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: lost on both sides. But that's pretty insane. That's a
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: lot of it's a lot of people, yeah, over a bucket.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So that's that's my next big question that's burning
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: in my mind. First, what happened after this? Did the
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: war end? And even more importantly, what happened to the bucket?
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the war did eventually end. It raged on until
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: fifteen twenty nine, when we've got Charles of Spain, the
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: first that is, who by that point became a holy
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: Roman emperor. That's the thing you can inherit that, I guess.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: But I feel like Brad Pitt's character at the end
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: of seven, I keep going, what's in the bucket?
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh well, we don't. I don't know. I think
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: that's lost to time because now the bucket does remain
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: in its just bucket form, and you can see it
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: in Modena and it's at the Tora de la Giralandina
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: and that's just, like I guess, a mock up of it, right, okay, yeah, yeah,
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: just you know, to commemorate the day and the one
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: though you can find at the Palazzo Communal.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: Even today, the modern day, I believe. So that's so cool.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: Book your tickets now, book.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Your bucket tickets. I've never been sow into a bucket.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: What if somebody had that bucket on their bucket lists?
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: There we go. What if a bucket list was just
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: a list of famous buckets that you see before you done.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: I was thinking the same thing you mind, reader, Let's
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: make let's make a bucket list. I want to find
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: more famous buckets in history.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: So huge props to Shehan Russell from a war history
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: online for the bloodiest Medieval war was fought because of
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: a bucket, because I Pilford heavily from that article for
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: this one. But it's a fun story. Fun that's not
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: the right word for it. But it's a ridiculous story
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: because it just goes to show how the simplest things
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: and the pettiest interactions can lead to serious bloodshed.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like that old line where if you
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: already decided that you don't like someone, whatever they do
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: is just going to make you not like them. Still,
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: it doesn't matter how innocuous it is. And that applies
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: to states and nations that want.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: To go to war.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: If they need it causes ballet, or they need a
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: reason to go to war, they can just find one.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: Oh man, okay, everyone off off air. We checked what
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: time we were at and we got so into this that, Noel,
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: do you realize we've been We've been fascinated by buckets,
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: ears and camels for like an hour.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: Oh my buckets. Here the cavels. Oh bye, I'm fine
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: with that, though, you know, we gave them their due
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: and then and there's just one that we're gonna I
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: think we're gonna leave on the table. So once again
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: we kind of over prepared. But I guess it's better
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: than under delivering. Sure, that's what I always say. Yeah, so, yeah,
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: we got two that we're leaving on the table. But
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: maybe we'll just turn those in episodes of their own,
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: because each one of these could have really been an
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: episode on their own.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: That's that's true, except the camel one.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: I guess it.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: Depends on how much we want to learn about pre
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: Islam tribal relations and the biology of camels.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: But that is Can you milk a camel? Yeah?
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: You can? You can milk a camel? Is it gonna
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: be worth it?
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: Did you know you can milk pigs too?
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: Well?
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: I mean I've seen, you know, you always see the
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: little pig that's suckling on the big the big sal Yeah,
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: so I'm assuming that. Yeah, you hear about pig milk though.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think we used it once in a
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: story on a different show, just because it's such a
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: weird term. But we digress, and yes, that is part
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: of the nature of Ridiculous History. Today we are going
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: to wrap it up. Stay tuned for possible future explanations
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: of the two ridiculous wars we did not get to today.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: In the meantime, we of course always want to hear
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: from you. Let us know your favorite ridiculous cause of
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: a conflict, a skirmish, or a war. You can do
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: it in any number of ways. We are all over
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: the internet. You can find us on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook,
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: and of course one of our favorite places online, Ridiculous Historians.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah it's true. We actually just recorded a future episode
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: that features a lot of the amazing humans on that
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: community page. So if you want to be a part
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: of that and get in on the fund, you can
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: go to Ridiculous Historians on Facebook and asked to be
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: a member unless you're like clearly a awful person, where
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: we'll let you you know, you all are welcome.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: And again, just to be completely completely clear, do not
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: cut off your ears.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: No, yeah, don't do a van go just just don't
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: do it even to make your point just not worth it.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: And we want to of course thank our super producer,
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: Casey Pegram. We want to thank Alex Williams, who composed
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: this track.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: We'd also like to thank Christopher Hasiotis, who I had
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: a good old time with on the Louis Louis episode
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: hanging out with in Person, and I think listeners did
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: as well, for being our a number one super bad
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: plus research guy. We really appreciate a lot and he
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: kind of helped kick us off down this road of
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: ridiculous conflicts.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: And of course thank you, specifically you. This show does
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: not exist without you, so feel free to like our
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: show on your various platforms of choice, and if you're
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: feeling charitable, leave us a review. It always makes our day,
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: it really does.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: And yeah, as I just tease a minute ago, next time,
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: we will be exploring some really really cool stuff that
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: was pitched on our Ridiculous Historians page and I think
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: there's a lot to like and chew on in that one.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: So we hope you'll join us then and we will
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: see you next time. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: your favorite shows.