Latest / The Efficient Advisor: Tactical Business Advice for Financial Planners / 227: Use "Not Your Average College Planning" to Drive High-Value Referrals with Ross Riskin

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227: Use "Not Your Average College Planning" to Drive High-Value Referrals with Ross Riskin · The Efficient Advisor: Tactical Business Advice for Financial Planners

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Ross, it's been 202 episodes since you were on the podcast, so this is a far too long gap of not having enough Ross Riskin in my life.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: So welcome back.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: I'm happy to be back and you finally got me back on talking about a topic I love and I'm super passionate about.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: So excited to be here.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I know, I know.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: So why don't you share with us, before we dive into kind of all these like super tactical ways to really enhance the college planning conversation?
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Why don't you share with us what are the current 27 businesses that you run and 47 jobs that you have?
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: No, we do not have enough time in this episode for that.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: No, I mean still my main gig that I love doing is Chief Learning Officer, investments and Wealth Institute, so we just had our strategy forum conference in Chicago, which is great.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Chief Creative Officer at Visiwell, so still creating those one page visuals that our advisors are using to enhance their advice, engagement and delivery of complex concepts and simplifying things for clients, which is awesome.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: And still, in the CPA practice and on the RIA side of things, and, uh, serve as an advisory board member for the AICC FC, which that's related to the certified college financial consultant designation program and some of the content we'll be chatting about today.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: All right, one of the busiest guys in the industry.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you probably also foster dogs and have a huge vegetable garden and just all the things.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: No, I have two young girls, so two and a half years old in 10 months.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: But let's just say I don't think I could do it if I had two young boys.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, facts, absolute facts.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: So as a mama boy, that is that is for for sure.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, cool, well, let's dive in.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: So really the the.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: The thing that I'm most interested in talking to you about, and I think our listeners will be most excited to take away, is just, obviously you're like a technical guru.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: I love listening to you talk.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: I wish when I was running my practice, that I would have had more Ross Ruskin in my life.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: It's a common theme actually it seems to be trailing throughout my life here there needs to be more Ross.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: But when I was running my practice and I've said this publicly but I absolutely hate college planning it was my least favorite thing to talk about with clients.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: It felt hard, complicated and then I wasn't really sure how to actually parlay it into significant value for my clients.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: So I always hired that part of my planning out.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: And I know a ton has changed in the college planning world since I sold my business and I really want to have this conversation around how do clients or how do advisors really engage their clients in the college planning conversation in a way that they're not just glazing over it and kind of just doing the hey, do you have enough money Kind of save.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: What's the plan?
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: And then just that basic how do we actually move from the surface level conversation with clients about college funding to these deeper, more meaningful like how can we actually really genuinely make a difference in people's financial plans, all the way down to what you shared about using college planning to actually craft intergenerational wealth?
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: So can you do that all in about 35 minutes or less?
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: You got it, of course.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: No, it's a great question and something that it's amazing because it still continues to be one of the.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: It still continues to be one of the.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: Sorry, I can pause.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Someone just came in, sorry.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Can you cut it like?
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: no worries, we'll just pause for 10 seconds, so I'll see a flat line so it's a great question.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: It's it's amazing because it continues to be something where college is a big problem.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: It's a big issue.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Sorry, I'm going to start over.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: That's not correct.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: You're fine, give it five or six seconds.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: It's amazing because it continues to be one of those things where solving the college puzzle is getting more complicated and complex and it continues to be something that families continue to worry about right, because it's tied to their legacy.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: Hey, are my kids going to be set up for success in the future?
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Are they going to be more successful than I was or previous generations were?
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: And with all the advances in technology and concerns over well, what if they go and study something?
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Is there even going to be a job?
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: Are those skills going to transfer to something else?
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: Yet, at the same time, there's still a lack in this knowledge gap in the advisor community around becoming more innovative in how we talk to clients about college planning, understanding the nuances of the planning decisions that need to be made at all different stages of the life cycle, of planning for the goal whether you're working with families with young kids and saving to having students graduate with some student loan debt, understanding how to repay that, to even work with grandparents that have accumulated enough wealth that they want to pass it on in a way that's strategically advantageous to them.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: I think one of the ways, or one of the areas where it starts, is really having the conversation with families around college funding philosophy.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: And so that's before even getting into the conversations of, oh, where does your son or daughter want to go to school or what do they want to study.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's understanding hey, what was your own college journey, like mom and dad?
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: Did you go to an in-state school?
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Did you go to a private school?
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: Did your parents help pay for it?
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: Did you pay for it by working in the summers?
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: Did you take out loans or you didn't?
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: And oftentimes those are very different, especially with married families.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: Not everybody comes from the same background.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: So it's really teasing that out because that's going to help influence and influence their decision making, influence how they view education and then also understand how do you actually approach those families and kind of guiding them to where they want to go, while also being aligned with what do their kids even want to do with that right?
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: And so I think a big part of it is we talk about breaking out what is the family value more.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: Is it the college education or is it the college experience?
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: And so you'll find having conversations with clients where you'll talk to some people that say, hey, you know what I want my son or daughter to, you know, to go to this school.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: I went to that school or I met my spouse there, I met my best friends.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: It was a great time.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: They had a great sports team.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: We had these sporting events that we could actually afford to go to the games back in the day.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Versus you know what.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: Just go to the in-state school, do the community college thing, transfer in, study STEM, get in and out, get a degree, get a job, move on Like that's where things are going.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: So really trying to tease that out helps the advisor understand.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: Okay, what do we need to do from a planning perspective?
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: And I think you know one of the things that we started talking about, you know, before hopping on this, is just around the different savings vehicles and the flexibility that's coming out.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: So I'm sure that's on people's minds around oh, 529 plans, right?
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: So you know 529 plans still one of the more popular savings vehicles.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: Still not the majority of people even know about them, like in the country when you look at survey results.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: So still an awareness issue.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, if you look at some survey results, it's not like oh, 90% of people have 529 plans.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: So there's still a knowledge gap there, even in the consumer community with it, but in the advisor community, I mean, that's why we take that for granted, right?
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: That's one of those things where, hey, based on the circles we run and who we talk to, of course you have a 529 plan.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: But then I think the next question is well, is that all you have?
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: Is that enough?
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: Like, not necessarily just well, are you going to be able to save enough in that vehicle?
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: But is that the only vehicle you want in your toolbox, right?
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: Or do you want to use other things, like the brokerage accounts come into play, maybe a covered-ell education savings account that a grandparent set up?
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: So there's different ways to approach the problem, with more flexibility.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: That, I think, will be more accommodating to changing preferences of clients, changing goals, and allows them to be more nimble, especially as the higher education landscape continues to change.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: Okay, fascinating, landscape continues to change.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, fascinating.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: So, obviously, before we hit record, we were chatting, I have a sophomore in high school and you were sharing with me that like now, now is the time, and not just like, oh, now's the time to get it together and start thinking about this, but literally like there's some very specific things happening for you with your sophomore year that are really important.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: So, okay, so I'm an advisor, I know these things right, like I know there's a right, like I know there's a five to nine.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: I know there's cover dolls, I know there's.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: You know ways to reduce your taxable income.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: You know all, the, all the things.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: But how do we move that?
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Like, what are some of those more meaningful?
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, I love this idea Cause I can kind of remember feeling at certain times like Whoa, where does my job blur?
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: Like where does the line start to blur between, almost like, guidance counselor and having some of these bigger picture discussions and like, well, is that my job?
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: No, I'm just the money person and I've thought about this a lot over the last four or five really five years now, since I've sold my practice.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: How, for me, college planning, like I did, I hired it out.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: It wasn't my favorite, it was not my jam and how I feel like that was a huge miss for me, that there could have been a more significant.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: So it's not to me, like I've been thinking through it of the lens of like it's not really a value add, but it's like a fundamental part because it is so much bigger, deeper, it's a very big expense for most people.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: So, how does an advisor start to think through, like very tactically, like what are some things that they could, should be doing for their clients, things they would encourage them to think through?
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: Think about what are some of the big like.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: There's been a lot of changes in the financial planning landscape around college planning, so give me some tactical stuff for people.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, great question.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: So I think the big thing to try to tackle is how do you make the numbers and the situation less scary and less daunting?
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: So that is what is.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: A big turnoff for people is if you walk into somebody's office and advisor's office and say, hey, I want my kid to go to XYZ school because I went there and it's $85,000 a year right now, and guess what?
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: They're not going to be in school for 10 or 15 years.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Then putting that into your planning software and showing them oh yeah, college four years is going to be $750,000 for four years by the time they actually go.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: It's a major turnoff for people, it's a major barrier.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Then people shut down and then go into that mode of well, I'm never going to be able to save that.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: I might not even think I could save that in my retirement account, let alone for this one goal.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: So it's how do you break that down and make that more manageable?
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: I think that's by having a knowledge of the other areas of planning that are important, of understanding that, hey look, those numbers we ran are based off of a sticker price, right?
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: The reality is not everybody is paying that full price for college.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: That once you factor in financial aid, whether it be need-based aid, because you've done the appropriate planning in the appropriate years, like you just alluded to, right?
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: So so spring semester, sophomore year of high school, is the base income assessment year.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: That's the most important year of planning for college planning, because that's the first year that's going to be assessed for income in the financial aid formulas to.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: There may be opportunities for merit based aid, right, you have somebody who's you know really good in sports, some other you know academics, some other skill that is attracted to the college and they want somebody like that in their student profile that maybe they're willing to throw some more money at.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: You're also have the ability to maybe negotiate financial aid award letters, depending on how enrollments are looking for schools, right?
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: So we know that was a major thing even last year with the debacle with the FAFSA, of big declines in number of FAFSAs being filled out, which leads to lower enrollments in certain schools, which means that, hey, if they're not hitting their enrollment numbers, maybe they're throwing more money at certain candidates to get them to come to their school.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: So there's all these different factors that come into play.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: And then on top of that you have the ability to borrow for college right and so understanding that there are nuances of federal loan options and the different repayment plans and maybe the opportunity for loan forgiveness versus taking a hard fast approach of debt is bad not going to borrow.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: I read all these stories of six figures student loan debt and people get.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: No, it's way more strategic than that.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: So once you kind of factor that in and you can talk about the benefits of, hey, you know what, maybe it's okay for your son or daughter to borrow some money they get to build the credit, even if you have every intention of repaying it.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: If there's the possibility that maybe they want to go into public service or do some other job and there's a big discrepancy maybe between their income and what they've borrowed, there is the potential for loan forgiveness.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: There's the potential to actually repay that debt based on their ability to pay right, based on their income earning potential.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: So that's where we're seeing having some of those conversations, even on the other side of things, right with families that, hey, they say, well, we don't need college planning, we have a couple $100,000 in a 529 plan.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: The questions I'm talking to advisors in those situations is just because you've saved that much, should it actually be spent or should it be spent now?
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: And that leads into kind of that intergenerational wealth transfer where maybe you have the situation where there's $400,000 saved and the student wants to go work in public service.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: Maybe they want to be a social worker, which you know you're going to have to get a master's degree in that lower earning potential.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: Does it make sense to spend all $400, right, maybe they want to be a social worker, which you know you're gonna have to get a master's degree in that lower earning potential.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: Does it make sense to spend all 400,000?
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Or you may be better off spending 200,000.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: And maybe they're going to choice B or C school and they're taking out some debt and then you're preserving the remaining 100 or $200,000 left over for grandkids or for other kids or like that's the benefit of those plans.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: It's a great legacy planning vehicle and that leads to deeper conversations with clients of, hey, what do they intend these funds to actually be used for?
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: Do they want to actually?
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: Is that part of their legacy planning?
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so interesting.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: So as a mom who's been shoving money into a 529 since they were four days, I'm pretty sure I opened it before I even left the hospital, kind of a thing.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: And yeah, and so thinking through, like well, just cause I, just cause I have it, is that's actually the most strategic use of those funds for a kiddo, or especially like the kiddos that have no idea what they want to do.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: Correct.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: Right and just are very like in that undecided or undetermined category.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: That's so interesting, okay.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: So so tell me, tell me more.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: What else does an advisor need to be thinking through?
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: So, so there's a lot of stuff.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: So I think that this the typical process of hey, what does school cost today?
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: How many years are we going to anticipate they're going to be in school?
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: What's an inflation rate?
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: Right, those are all useful figures for running a simple time value money calculation to determine how much you need to save.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: Then it moves into well, where do you save the money?
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Right, that's all table stakes, that's all things that people, advisors, we need to be doing.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: But we need to go beyond that, right.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: So you need to be thinking about, even with the 529 plan, right, so let's say that's the preferred vehicle.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: One thing we've noticed that gets taken for granted is actually investment selection within a 529 plan, right.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: So a lot of those plans have age-based portfolios or target enrollment portfolios, right, very similar to target date retirement funds.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: So you see, the vast majority are in there, kind of in a set.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: It forget it Because you already have investment limitations.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: You can't make changes more than twice a year.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: So no one's really actively managing 529 plan assets, which is fine.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: Now, those target enrollment portfolios work out really well for the most part.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: The further away from the goal you are right, because you have a higher equity allocation, so you're actually getting the benefits of growth.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: But what I find interesting is that people aren't paying as much attention to well what is the investment selection and what's the portfolio allocation as we approach college or when we're actually enrolled in college.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Right, and so we actually took a look.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: We did some research on this and we found that portfolios for those who are going to be enrolled in college this semester or already enrolled in college about 30 to 50% of those actually generated negative returns, meaning they lost money for people in those target enrollment portfolios.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Hey.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: I'm in school right now.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: So it's the equivalent of someone coming to you and saying hey, libby, I'm looking to buy a house in the next six to 18 months and I have $70,000 for the down payment.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Would you really advise that person to put that money anywhere other than a checking account, a high yield savings account?
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: You're not putting them into some fund that's a little bit of equities and big fixed income that has major interest rate risk.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: So it's one of those things where imagine telling that to a client of you weren't paying attention to the investment allocation because you thought it was just set and forget it.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: And they're at the point where they're in distribution mode.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: They're taking money out of the 529 plan to pay bills and that account is potentially losing money.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: Your main goal is capital preservation and also couple that during a time where you've had high interest rates right.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: You could get 4% to 5% in a guaranteed principal account in a tax-deferred vehicle like a 529 plan.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: That's a no-brainer.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: So it's one of those interesting things where you can generate additional investment alpha for the client just by advising them to move to a guaranteed cash account.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: It's like the complete opposite how we think about investments and where do you go for returns?
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: So it's things like that.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Being aware of that, even the timing of distributions is important, right?
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: So I had this exact conversation with a client earlier in the year, or actually a couple months ago.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: They were talking about making the first payment to Brown, right?
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: So the first semester payment to Brown was over $50,000.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: That's tuition and room and board First semester, not even the whole year, that's the first payment.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: So they're going to make another $50,000 payment and so we spent more time talking about well, you have other funds sitting in like a checking account over here.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: It actually may be better for you to pay that from these other funds and then reimburse yourself from the 529 plan by the end of the year, because you're going to get the advantage advantage of earning another four to 5% tax free in that account and then you take the distribution out.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: So, understanding the mechanics of those plans, that's, that's just.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: That's just one way.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: I think another way is you're seeing, you know advisors or you know hearing about, oh, you can roll over excess money from a 529 plan into a Roth.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: One of the biggest benefits of that is not necessarily the mechanics on the back end, but the messaging it sends at the front end, because there still tends to be this hesitation of people to put money into a 529 plan because of misinformation out there.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: Right, a lot of people think, well, I can only use it for college, when that's just not the case, right?
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: So by adding more flexibility, it removes or reduces a barrier to entry into certain savings vehicles or strategies, which is great.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: However, it kind of begs the question of well, are you doing all the things you need to to make sure you can roll excess funds over?
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: That's back to the point of are you now going to purposely overfund it or are you better leaving it in there to plan for other future legacy goals?
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: There's also certain things where you have a 15-year rule where there's some questions on whether.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: Well, hey, one of the great things about 529 plans is you can change beneficiaries.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: So if my son didn't need it, my daughter can need it.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: Great, did you just reset the 15-year clock?
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: If you did that, what if you, as an advisor, are evaluating plans and you advised your client to move from one state plan to another state plan because they had lower fees, better investment options?
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: You offered great advice, but you also just reset the clock on them.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: So it's understanding the nuances of those things.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: And those are just some examples of the 529 plans.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: I think what the college planning, the distribution part of it it's a great preview for retirement income planning as well.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Right, it's the same premise.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: Right, you're saving for a goal over years and you have a distribution period, although it's much shorter, but spend some more time actually going through to understand, hey, where does it make sense to pull money out of for this?
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: And I've still found that there really aren't great tools and technology platforms out there that help solve for that.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: Right, everything is doing a great job.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: We're kind of getting closer to finding those solutions there where, hey, you're maybe seeing new student loan planning modules and certain things, or maybe this is taking into consider the financial aid.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: But when it comes to the rubber meets the road of where do I pull money out to actually write a check or send it to the school?
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: That's where having knowledge of how all these different instruments play together works.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: Right Of, not just the 529.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: Well, what if there's a grandparent 529?
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Do you do that?
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: Or what if there's a Coverdell?
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Right, coverdells have to be distributed by age 30.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: So do you want to tap that early.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: What if there's an up my account?
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: Well, maybe there's major unrealized capital gains in there that you have to worry about if you sell it, incurring a taxable event.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: And then, oh, on top of that, maybe you can qualify for a tax credit.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: But wait, if you're going to qualify for the tax credit, you can't also use the same funds that you took out of the 529 plan to get the full benefit.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: And oh, wait, now that your income is below a certain threshold, maybe you're qualifying for subsidized loans, and that makes sense to actually have the student borrow a loan because the interest is paid by the government while they're in school, right?
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: So all these factors are are at play and they're just other pieces to add value and reassert why a client needs to work with you over this process.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: It is not a simple put a number into a calculator and just put 10 grand a year into a 529 plan.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: It's way more complicated than that.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm over here and I look like I'm taking notes for like the show notes and the intro and outro of the podcast, but it's actually a bunch of personal notes that I'm taking here, like, oh, you know what I need to look into or check or do or have my financial planner do for me?
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's, that's totally what's actually happening over here on this side.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: So I didn't hear anything.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: You said I've just been taking personal notes about my son for this entire time.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: So no, I'm just kidding.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: So you mentioned the software and that was one of the biggest things for me where I can remember.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: It was just a lot of work because we were doing everything I don't want to say by hand.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: I am that old, but you know what I mean.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Like we were doing it all by hand right Versus having this FinTech that could really truly support really exceptional college planning.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: So what, what exists out there now, or what are you guys recommending and I say you guys, cause we're going to talk about the CCFC designation and how people get really good at college planning, like this Cause, all this stuff that you're saying to me, I was like, oh dear God, I need to hire someone.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: And I'm in this space.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: So what software?
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: What fintech?
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: What exists out there that advisors should be looking at?
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, two that we really like and we've had a good amount of experience with.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: The first is College Aid Pro so they've been in the space for a while.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: Just does a great job of accurately calculating the cost of college, right?
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: So, factoring in, hey, all the changes from the FAFSA Simplification Act and the new financial aid formulas that's in there, understanding the aid distribution policies from different schools, to figure out, hey, these schools cost the same on their website.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: But I'm actually going to qualify for more of a scholarship here.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: I'm going to qualify for this specific grant at this school because of my profile.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: So you're getting a real, accurate picture to understand, it's not $60,000.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: It's going to be $35,000.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: And then we can plan accordingly with that information.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: And also, the great thing about this and we were talking about before of last year was such a nightmare and this year, no surprise, will be challenging as well with the FAFSA rollout of.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: You had, you know, the forms that had normally been available in October, then they said December, and then it wasn't until the first week of January they were available.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: Then you had issues of the formula wasn't even correct of what was being calculated to delays of aid forms.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: If you were working with a tool like College Aid Pro, you got pretty close figures way ahead of time.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: So it just would have been a great example of hey, if I had had that tool and had I run those calculations, I would have been able to provide some guidance, some support, some reassurance to my families and their kids that are stressing out because they still haven't received an award letter.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: But the college decision deadline is looming, right, it's already a compressed deadline to make a huge financial decision.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: So having a tool that runs those numbers is super helpful.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: And then the second one is Finology software.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: So Finology, created by Alex Bottom super sharp guy is on the student loan repayment side of things.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: So being able to model all those different income driven repayment plans, right from IBR to pay as you earn the save plan, even though the save plan is in flux right now, you could still model those things out so you can actually show a client hey, this is a preferred payment plan based on your income assumptions, right?
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: Hey, your income is this now.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: Here's what's going to be in the future.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: Here's what we're expecting poverty guideline to be for this.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: Here's your discretionary income.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: Here's your discretionary income.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: Here's marital status.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: We can do married, filing separately and isolate your income, and here's what your payment's going to be and here's your potential loan forgiveness and here's how we plan for that.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: So being able to model those scenarios is really great and it's extremely detailed and it's way too much to be doing in an Excel spreadsheet.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: However, I will say those tools are awesome and they are needed, but what really brings it together is having the underlying knowledge and education and to be able to spot things right, to be able to understand, hey, before I waste time maybe going down a rabbit hole like in a tool or playing around too much, I understand the basics, I understand the fundamentals of, hey, these types of loan or payment plans, this is going to be better for a client or for this type of client.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: This type of saving strategy is what we're going to lean towards.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: Now let me have the software and the tools kind of verify my assumptions.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: But it's understanding just the underlying fundamentals.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Look, I go and play around in software tools all the time, even of the bigs that are out there, and there's always missing things that aren't calculated a certain way or it's making some assumption in here that just does not apply at all to your client.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: You need to take it out.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: So if you blindly follow like a software tech platform with really no training, no background, no real understanding, you're gonna make mistakes and they're going to be noticeable for clients.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've seen ones that they don't take into account.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Like you could be running a simple college savings calculation and you assume, okay, we're going to borrow federal loans, you put the amount in there and then it's inflation adjusting everything, including the loans, when the federal student loans for students are not inflation adjusted right.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: So when you do that, then it creates this scenario where, or this result where it says, hey, you actually can save less than you actually really need to save.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: You're actually not going to have access to that.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: You're going to have to access some other loan to get what this just modeled out.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: But if you knew that accordingly, you could make that adjustment and understand that Okay.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: So for all of the advisors sitting here listening to you talk and they're just like, oh boy, that was a lot.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: That was a lot that I need to know.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: And this is.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm like Libby, this is not my area of expertise.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: This is not my forte but I can see how this is more than just a value add kind of conversation with clients.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: This is really like a big, ginormous, fundamental differentiator too, because and the thing I think is so interesting about the college though sidebar, but the thing I think is so interesting about college is it catches on like wildfire, like you know, because we're all these parents are going through at the same time.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: So if you're having this exceptional experience and you're hearing all of these things that you're saying to me, that, as a financial planner, I'm like I don't know, that I've heard anyone talk about it like that.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: You know they're going to tell like it is what a referral generating.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Oh it's huge for for advisors listening and I'm listening to you thinking, wow, I would pay a lot for that service, right.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: And so for advisors who are kind of maybe in that space of like that sounds like a lot of work.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: You know, how do I even?
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: One, how do I even get that knowledge?
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: And I know we're going to talk about that.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: But to like, how do I even get that knowledge, and I know we're going to talk about that.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: But two, how do I even get compensated for it?
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: As a mom who has a significant financial planning background, I would be willing to pay for that level of expertise to help me make the absolute best decisions.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, thousands of dollars would be well spent to save tens of thousands of dollars over time.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: So, okay.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: So everyone listening is like, yep, that sounds like a lot of information.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: I'm nowhere near that.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: How do advisors?
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Where do you suggest that they go?
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: I know you're a big champion of the CCFC, so talk to us about CCFC and then tell us about the advanced planning pre-con that you have coming up here in a sure.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Here in a few weeks.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: So before I do that, I have to just add a point, because you brought up just a great example of from the referability side of things.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: If you get into this crowd you're able to do this work.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: It can catch on.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: Three of my biggest clients that I've been working with for over 10 years now all started as college planning clients and literally that was the service I offered and I specialized in and I was getting referrals from advisors, from CPAs, and at the time we weren't doing the advisory work but we were doing the CPA work.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: But I made it very clear like I'm not stepping on the toes of other CPAs.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: They're already doing your taxes, your books, that's fine.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: We are specifically doing the education planning.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: And guess how many of those three top clients ended up coming over and having us do accounting work years later?
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: All of them.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: And I remember asking specifically and I made it very clear to stay in the lanes.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: I think that's another challenge too right.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: You even have like everyone's kind of creeping a little bit to see like, oh, I can provide that as a value adder, I can provide that as a value add, or I can do this, but the but.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: What it also shows is when you get into this space is it forces you to be creative and people love working with people who are creative, because it means you're constantly looking to solve problems and approach things in a different way, and it constantly means that you're proactively out, you're actively reaching out to your clients with new suggestions, right, that's.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: I cannot understate that.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: I cannot overstate that.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: Enough of, even if something doesn't work for your client or it's a strategy that's not going to work, just having a phone call or conversation and say, hey, look, this new strategy came out of this new law passed.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: It may not apply to you, but I'm going to look into it to see if it actually maybe helps us get this part of the plan done more efficiently or effectively.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Like, that is such a big value add and locks clients in for more, because that's not what they're getting from their other advisors, who are more transactional, are only going to show up at, you know, the, the set points in time that they're, they're scheduled to meet, and I remember I asked those, those clients that said, hey, well, yeah, we can do your accounting work about.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: You know, are you unhappy?
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: Right, that's always.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: That's always the first.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: You know cause you want to judge.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: You're kind of judging people not judging, that's a bad word.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: You're assessing the opportunity Um to see you can judge here right.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: Because sometimes it's.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: You know, not every client is perfect.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: Um, so it's.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: I'm like hey, are you unhappy with your CPA?
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: Like, why are you asking about CPA?
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: You've been with your CPA for 10 years and when their response is no, they're great, I like them, I've been with them forever, but they're not doing the stuff you're doing.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: That is the best way to get business from somebody else, right.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: So you're usually getting business from somebody else because either somebody messed something up or they had a poor experience, or maybe their advisor passed away or retired definitely retired in the CPA community side of things.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: But to get somebody from somebody who they're actually content with the planning relationship for a long period of time but they're not fulfilling or checking the box and the getting creative, approaching things differently, being proactive, that's the best way to win sticky business I've I have found in that perspective.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's huge.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: That's huge Okay.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: So back to the original.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: I know I tell us like how do we?
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: actually get good at this.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: How do we be the guy?
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: How do I be that guy?
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: I want to know.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: So it's understanding that it's a lifelong journey process.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: Um, the certified college financial consultant program is something we started back in 2017.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: So over seven years ago, and it was something that I helped start because I realized there were a couple other education designation programs out there, but they were really talking about the product side of things.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Right, they were still kind of hey, come learn this so you can learn how to sell college planning, to really sell an annuity or put money into you know some other products which not bashing those products but the way that they were pitched was this way to save money on financial aid.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Because if you move in and you shield assets when, if you understand back to the fundamentals, the aid formula is income driven, so you maybe have a situation where the client is not the family's not gonna qualify for aid because their income's too high.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter what they have in assets, but they have a million dollars in a brokerage account that could have been moved into an annuity or some other vehicle or not, it's not going to matter.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: So we really base the curriculum on the cash flow planning side, the tax planning side, of really understanding the nuances of these vehicles, and we purposely created the curriculum to cover the foundation of all the different areas, both the early stage right the funding side, to financial aid planning, to planning with education, tax deductions and credits, to the student loan advising, to the practical planning side, right.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: So that's actually the last module in the program.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: We talk about some other strategies of what else do you need to know if you're working with high income or high net worth individuals?
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: What do you need to know if you're working with divorced or blended or modern families?
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: There's other nuances there, too.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: What about business owners?
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: So there's some reporting requirements on financial aid forms for business owners.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: There's certain business structures that are better from a financial aid perspective.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: And even what about grandparents, too?
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: Right, like making sure their legacy planning goals are working.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: Because there used to be a point in time like one of the most popular strategies for a while was always well, if you're a grandparent and you have substantial net worth and gift and estate tax planning is one of your biggest hurdles, there is, oh, just write a check directly to the school, because you write a check for that $60,000.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: It doesn't use up any of your exemption, doesn't use any of your annual exclusion either.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: However, back in time, a lot of schools would have interpreted that as untaxed income of the student or as a resource and therefore that student wouldn't qualify for any aid right?
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: So it's understanding the profiles.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: Maybe you're working with a grandparent client who is affluent and high net worth, but maybe their kids and their kids are the parents in this situation, aren't and are in a position where they could qualify for need-based aid.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: So it's coordinating even across generations to make sure that you're taking advantage of those opportunities and not sacrificing maybe a 20 or $30,000, you know tax-free scholarship over four years because you were only focused on you know the one, one part, one piece of the three-part family of grandparents, parents and kids, and understanding that.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: So those, those are just some examples.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: So we built that program, been running for seven years.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: So self-study program, 15 hours of CFP, board, ce and the other great thing about being part of it is being part of the community, right, another great community of advisors who are like-minded, that understand the power of the education planning.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: And what we also find is once you get into the program, once you go through that stuff, you realize, wow, it's very difficult to be an expert and knowledgeable of all these areas that we then find people niche within a niche, right.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: So you find people that say you know, I'm only going to work with late stage funding families going through the financial aid process.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: That's where I can add most value.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: Maybe my kids are at the same age, so that's the community I'm already surrounded with at sporting events and other things.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: I can actually build a business that way versus hey, you know what?
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: I myself went through the student loan process, or I went to law school or whatever, and the student loans is where I want to be at, because I want to target these.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: You know these Henry clients, these people that are going to be high earners but they have the burden with debt and there's different options they're not aware of.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: So you're actually finding those specializations within a specialization, which is really cool.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: And the other benefit is, when you're in the program, you always will maintain access to up-to-date information, right.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: So that's one of the challenges of other programs out there where, hey, you enroll in the course and then, guess what, once you're done, you lose access 12 months later.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: Right, you can check the box of the courses.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: You're always getting the updates we have, at least on an annual basis, especially when new tax laws and provisions come out all the time.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: We're providing that up-to-date information to just keep the knowledge transfer going.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: Yes, you've been busy.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: Just keep the knowledge transfer going.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: Yes, you've, you've, you've been busy.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you are.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: You'll be at XYPN, which I'm super excited about, and it's going to be here in like no time.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about the advanced planning workshop that you guys are doing as a pre-con.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: Yes, so we're doing that Tuesday, october 15th.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: It's going to be eight to 12.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: It's going to be a four hour workshop where we're going to go at an even more advanced, in-depth level, going through case studies around complicated education funding scenarios, financial aid planning, what to know for the year coming up, the different student loan repayment strategies, and also taking a deeper dive into some of the technology applications to address the how.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Do I do this right?
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: So we're going to have the what and the why covered, but going through the how and it's going to be myself is going to be leading sessions Joe Messenger from College Capstone Partners, so he was actually one of the original guys at College Aid.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: Pro Alex Bottom from Phenology is going to be there.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: And Becca Craig, who is awesome as well, from Buckingham, so she's a guru in the student loan planning space, so it's going to basically the four of us going through and having some conversations, some discussions, really advanced learning, and you know, one of the prereqs, though, is you have to be a CCFC or you have to be a candidate, at least enrolled in the program, and we're doing that so we can truly put together a program that is advanced, that we don't have to spend so much time on what is a 529 plan.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: Instead, we can go deeper on these topics, make it more meaningful in a small, intimate group.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, fantastic.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Well, I will make sure all of the links for your pre-con for the CCFC all of that is in the show notes.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: We'll make sure that people have access to it and before I let you go, I always like to ask my guests.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: So, for people that own a business or, in your case, like 47 businesses I always am looking for like those efficiency hacks, whether it's like a mindset, a ritual or practice that you have, maybe it's specific software.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: Is there anything that you're doing or utilizing or that you've integrated into your business here recently that you would go, oh my gosh, it'll be like this is something I would share with anybody who runs business.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: That's a great question.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: It's nothing sophisticated at all, I think Perfect.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: We love that.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: I'm able to.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: It's a very analog approach.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: I think it's two things.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: It's being extremely purposeful with time blocking, like understanding the need to block periods of time where deep work is required and headphones go on and it's clear.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: Everything is blocked, like phone is off on, do not disturb, cannot be reached any other way.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: That's it's such a lo-fi.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: It's not even a hack, but it's being.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: It's such a lo-fi it's not even a hack, but it's.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: It's it's being.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: It's just being purposeful with your time.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: Is headphones on, music, whatever you need to do, and make sure you cannot be distracted within reason for at least a good amount of time and give yourself, you know, enough time for breaks and stuff.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: But there, so much time is being lost right now, I feel, with just disruptions.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Right, everything is where they have kids.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: I have two young kids at home, like I had my hack, was I actually?
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: So here's the hack I just now that we're talking through it.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: I just discovered it.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to anybody, but I'm going the opposite of everyone else.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: I actually found an office space that I'm renting and now I'm working out of right, like I can do all my things from home.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: But I realized, in order to get distraction free, I need to go somewhere else where I actually can be, be locked down and feel, feel focused, rather than just telling myself, oh, I'm in the basement or you know another home office area, like even if my spouse or kids are somewhere in the room, it's very hard to cut off.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: So if you're able to find another space, even go once a week somewhere else where you can actually lock in on your work, the results can be pretty incredible.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: No, that's perfect.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: So for the previous couple of weeks before this episode airs, we've been talking about doing a time study and building a model week that includes time blocking and time for deep work and actually doing what you're supposed to be doing when you said you were going to be doing it, so that you can actually get it all done.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: And a big piece of that is that reducing distraction and finding whatever your zone is even if it's counter-cultural whatever allows you to dig in and actually do the things you said you were going to do when you said you were going to do them.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: I think I think that's a beautiful and I I'm always here for it.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: I'm laughing because I have my time tracking sheet.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: That's an analog, sits on my desk.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: No fancy apps over here kind of thing.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: So I love me a good low tech solution.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: No, I love it.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: I just thought of one other thing.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to add that I just I thought about before.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: Back to the college planning piece.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: I could have sworn that did you post something?
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: I feel like you posted something recently about the kind of going above and beyond for your clients, right?
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: Hey, here's the base way I forgot what the terminology was.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: Yes, I was saying, instead of surprise and delight, consider shock and awe.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: Shock and awe right, and I love the example you know.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: One of them you had was the hey giving a sweatshirt of your alma mater school right Like it's right of like hey, your school's football team is on this Sunday, or whatever either sending them something or doing something with that.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: It's sports and in the collegiality and our affiliations with education are such deep rooted.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: There's even other ways to connect what you do for clients afterwards from sending them the mug from the school to an alumni shirt or something else you can do that ties them in.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: Or even to the kids of hey.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: Guess what?
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: Now you've gone through this process of helping them plan and you know where they're going to school.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: Like for my client, I send them the brown sweatshirt right, yeah, yeah.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: Going in.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: That's how you add value too.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it Right.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, how do you?
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: What are those like little extras that just make an advisor indispensable and exceptional?
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: And I think this level of planning that you're doing for people is exactly that.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: That's really one of those pieces.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: That's it's a beautiful example of how you become indispensable to your clients and build those.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: You know you turn those prospects into clients, but then those clients are literally referral generating machines when you dig in and treat them at that level.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: It's, it's just, it's a beautiful thing.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: So, thank you for what you do, sorry, no, do it, do it, let's do it.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: Like you also just got to think about it.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: It's.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: It's also such.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: It's a time where an advisor has never been more needed.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: Because, if you think about it, it's.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: It's also such.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: It's a time where an advisor has never been more needed.
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: Because, if you think about it like people, you know the water cooler example of okay, somebody's at work and yet maybe there's a conversation here or there about the market or retirement account, right.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: But kids in school what do you think?
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: That they're all talking constantly.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: What school did you get into?
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: Where are you going?
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: Where are you going?
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: Where are you going?
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: There's all this external pressure.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: We're not doing that in retirement, right, people aren't at the water cooling being like are you in this fund?
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: I'm in this fund.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: When are you retiring?
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: I'm doing this retirement, I'm spending this, are you going to spend this?
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: And do like no one's doing that.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: So, coming in as an objective voice that actually understands the social pressures that are put on kids, I like to think of this example like.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: This is a slide I've been using in the beginning of my presentations recently, where you know we as advisors like to kind of make things black and white, right.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: We try to get them onto paper of like here's the cost, here's this right.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: Very methodical because it's process oriented.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: We want to do that, but the reality is I think about Justin Long in the movie Accepted right Doesn't get into the school and he's kind of making this rationalization of well, plenty of successful people didn't go to college.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: You have albert einstein to, then you have, like the chris farley and tommy boy that lingers around for seven years, a little bit longer then you have hayley from modern family, where she's like mom, you've been acting so weird since I left college and her mom's like correction, you didn't leave, you were asked to leave school.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: And then you have the the big societal pressure I think of you know Danny Noonan from Caddyshack where he's walking like I gotta go to college, I gotta go to college.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: And Chevy Chase is like this is you don't have to go.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: This isn't Russia like this is Russia, right.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: So like you have all these different pressure points coming, that what better way to add value for families.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: That then that that stress and all those things are bubbling up to the parents, right, because they're then trying to figure out well, how do I make sure my kid's happy and how do we afford and how we do these things?
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: And if you're there as a sounding board earlier, you could just help them make smarter, more connected decisions as a group together and get the family in alignment is super powerful.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: I mean that's and that's really the core.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: You know, it's funny because when, when we're you know, when we're doing like our group coaching program and people are starting to introduce themselves, like one of the first questions you know people always try to ask each other is like, oh, why'd you get into financial planning?
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: And the answer is, nine times out of 10, I want to help people.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: I love helping people and it's, you know, and I think sometimes we tend to get into this, this like, or we're so focused on the business and the profitability, and like the like, how do you actually like still at the core, like you still want to help people, and so how do we do that in a way that's streamlined, that's effective, that's efficient, that's enjoyable, that is revenue producing and still fills that core desire to truly help our clients?
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you, I'm glad, after 202 episodes, we got you back and thank you so much for being here.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: Look, it's a sign.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: So this is going to be two, this is possibly two, oh three.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: That's my, that's my area code for the phone number for good old Connecticut, representing.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: That's right, perfect, well, thank you so much, ross.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: I appreciate you, and I know somebody listening will be like yep, this is exactly what I needed to hear, and I would encourage everyone to check out the CCFC and we'll again.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: We'll have all the information for you in the show notes.
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: Thanks, libby.