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Estate Planning Procrastination Can Cost Your Family · The Legal Exchange

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: This is the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky from the
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: law firm of Cushing and Dolan and Susan Powers of
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: the Armstrong Advisory Group. Each week, Todd and Susan will
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: discuss many topics, including estate planning, how to avoid probate,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: and protecting your money from a nursing home. If you
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: need assistance in any of these areas, or have a
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: question about another issue that may affect your future, call
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  Speaker 1: eight six six eight four eight five six ninety nine
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  Speaker 1: to make an appointment. That's eight sixty six eight four
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  Speaker 1: eight five six ninety nine. Operators are standing by. Now
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Here are your hosts, Tod Lutsky and Susan Powers.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm Susan Powers,
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and I'm
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: joined by Todd Lutsky, a partner with the law firm
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: of Cushing A. Dolan with a master's in taxation. Welcome Todd.
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  Speaker 2: How are you today?
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  Speaker 3: I am never better? How are you?
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: I'm great? Thank you? What do you have for us
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  Speaker 2: this week?
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  Speaker 3: We have a couple of things mass We've got a
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  Speaker 3: Mississippi Appellate Court case, you know, I want to call it.
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  Speaker 3: It really deals with a combination of capacity and procrastination.
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  Speaker 3: You know what happens when you procrastinate. In this case,
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  Speaker 3: they procrastinated, but when they did it, they only did
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  Speaker 3: a will, and then whether if the will doesn't work,
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  Speaker 3: then you're stuck with intestacy and it's just a disaster.
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  Speaker 3: So why would we wait for you know, planning, don't wait.
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  Speaker 3: And interestingly enough, this other one is a similar situation.
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  Speaker 3: Happens to be the founder of Zappos, remember them, Yeah, yeah,
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  Speaker 3: Well Tony Hesh was his name, and he passed away.
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  Speaker 3: And then the bigger issue is we have I'm actually
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  Speaker 3: I'm not sure he died, but but there's all this
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  Speaker 3: stuff about a power of attorney that he signed and
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  Speaker 3: whether it was signed when he had capacity or he
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  Speaker 3: didn't have capacity although he did die. Yeah, there's an
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  Speaker 3: estate litigation that's been going on for years and basically
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  Speaker 3: the message here, but I'm going to give you all
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  Speaker 3: the facts. I mean, all this litigation probably could have
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  Speaker 3: been prevented it if you had just done your planning
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: in advance. I mean, folks, I can't say enough about
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: getting planning started. And this it is the end of
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  Speaker 3: the month. I don't want it to be the end
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  Speaker 3: of the time that you start thinking about planning. But
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  Speaker 3: this is the guide that allows you to start your
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  Speaker 3: plan and not wait and be one of these procrastinators.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: It's the top eight estate planning trust We've updated it
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: from the last time. It's got a new one in it.
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  Speaker 3: These are the top eight that you do if you
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: don't know which one you're going to use or how
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: to get started. I think this will help you. And
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: even if you've done your planning, this one might tell you, well,
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: maybe I've reviewed my plan and I want to shift
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: to one. They're from revocable to irrevocable, special needs trusts,
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: life insurance trusts, gifting trusts, folks. Even the dreaded nominee
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: realty trust is in here. People. A lot of you
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  Speaker 3: have those. Call get the guide. It's the end of
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  Speaker 3: the month. Try to kick off the new month with
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: getting your estate plan in order eight six six eight
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  Speaker 3: four eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show
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  Speaker 3: dot com again eight six six eight four eight five
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  Speaker 3: six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com. And
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  Speaker 3: you could go to Cushing Dolan PC Instagram page for
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  Speaker 3: more information. All right, where we go in South Mississippi.
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  Speaker 3: So Linda, she died in October twenty seventh of twenty
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  Speaker 3: twenty two, so these dates are going to become important.
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  Speaker 3: Daughter LaToya files her will, which was interestingly enough, executed
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  Speaker 3: on August ninth, twenty twenty two. The will appointed LaToya
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  Speaker 3: as executor and left basically all the assets to LaToya.
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  Speaker 2: I was going to guess that. Yeah, nine days before
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  Speaker 2: she passed, two weeks before she passed.
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  Speaker 3: So Edward, Linda's son, decided to contest the will and
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  Speaker 3: argued that Linda lacked capacity shocker and had her judgment
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  Speaker 3: was uh impaired after a stroke that she had in
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  Speaker 3: April of twenty two. All this is in twenty twenty two,
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  Speaker 3: a few months apart. Edward also submitted other letters, a
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  Speaker 3: letter rather written by Linda stating that she was leaving
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  Speaker 3: whatever she owned to Diane and Edward, Well, that seems
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  Speaker 3: a little self serving.
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  Speaker 2: Is that his wife?
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  Speaker 3: I don't know. Also, Edward submitted medical records showing Linda
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  Speaker 3: was actually admitted to the hospital the day she executed
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  Speaker 3: her will and was disoriented.
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  Speaker 2: That's not suspect at all.
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  Speaker 3: That's not helpful, that's not helpful for LaToya, but the
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  Speaker 3: other letter was kind of self serving for Diane and Edward. Anyways,
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  Speaker 3: on we go. LaToya and two witnesses then provided that
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  Speaker 3: were at the execution of the will. They didn't seem
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  Speaker 3: to offer very persuasive evidence or testimony regarding this.
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  Speaker 2: She totally grabbed him from the hall way, so come
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  Speaker 2: and watch this woman sign this paper please.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. So that didn't help so much. So then the
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  Speaker 3: court ended up denying the will and ordered an intestate
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  Speaker 3: succession to apply. Mm hmm, Well LaToya didn't like that,
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  Speaker 3: so she appealed. The appellate court affirmed, finding Linda did
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  Speaker 3: lack testamentary capacity and LaToya could not provide support to
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  Speaker 3: Rebut that situation.
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  Speaker 2: Which sounds like they got it right.
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  Speaker 3: I think they did. I think they got it right.
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  Speaker 3: But you know what's the real lessons here? Yes?
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  Speaker 2: Okay, so LaToya and Edward, Yeah, there's your siblings. Their
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  Speaker 2: siblings probably not anymore, but I guess they're still siblings, right,
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  Speaker 2: just not talking Anyways, These are the kind of things
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  Speaker 2: you want to avoid, right.
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  Speaker 3: A lot of it is the you know, the family
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  Speaker 3: behind the plan. I always say, so let's just take
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  Speaker 3: a minute and figure out. You know, what can we
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  Speaker 3: learn from this? Well, first thing I want to remind
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  Speaker 3: everybody is that a will's a woll. I mean, everybody
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  Speaker 3: thinks I got a will and now I've got my estape.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah you know that, right.
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  Speaker 2: No, I don't have to go to probate. I have
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  Speaker 2: a will.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I got my entire state plan done, folks. A will,
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  Speaker 3: as Susan just said, does not avoid probate, right. It
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  Speaker 3: does not shelter their assets for a state tax purposes,
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  Speaker 3: if that's a concern of yours. It does not protect
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  Speaker 3: assets from the nursing home in advance of going to one,
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  Speaker 3: So those all might be helpful things. Remember, the will
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  Speaker 3: does not even speak until you're dead. Now that said,
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  Speaker 3: it's certainly better than nothing, as it can at least
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  Speaker 3: direct where your assets go upon.
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  Speaker 2: Your passing if it stands up, right, Well.
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  Speaker 3: That's where the procrastination piece comes in. You're absolutely right, Susan.
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  Speaker 3: Obviously it has to stand up. So that's why I'm
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  Speaker 3: saying here, it's least better than perhaps nothing.
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  Speaker 2: Maybe it is if that's truly your wish, right, So
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  Speaker 2: if you if this is your wish, then it's better
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  Speaker 2: than nothing.
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  Speaker 3: Why well, what's going to happen here. Well, we're looking
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  Speaker 3: at an intestate succession statute applying now, so you know
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  Speaker 3: what is intestacy. Intestacy simply means it's going to go
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  Speaker 3: according to a statute. Every state varies a little, you know,
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  Speaker 3: generally speaking, they look sort of like a Plinko ball.
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  Speaker 3: You know, did you leave a spouse? Okay, well that's
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  Speaker 3: a big you know, did you leave a spouse and children? Okay?
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  Speaker 3: Then look here was it a second marriage and a
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  Speaker 3: spouse and children, Well, then those children are likely to
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  Speaker 3: get something. And the spouse, no spouse, no children, no grandchildren, parents,
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  Speaker 3: you know, it goes back up. Do you have no siblings?
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  Speaker 3: Then down the line, right, and it varies state to state. Okay,
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  Speaker 3: Well that's what's going to happen here. So well, now
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  Speaker 3: that's that's not horrible really for LaToya because I'm I'm
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  Speaker 3: guessing here that that she has no spouse, but she's
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  Speaker 3: got kids, and so I don't know the intestate succession
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  Speaker 3: statute for Mississippi, but I have a funny feeling this
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  Speaker 3: is just going to go equally to the kids, right,
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  Speaker 3: So you know, at least LaToya is going to get
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  Speaker 3: something and the two kids that were out under the
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  Speaker 3: will are going to get something.
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  Speaker 2: But the fact that they had to go to court,
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  Speaker 2: and that's expensive battle that I mean, the fact that
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  Speaker 2: they had to go through that nonsense could have been avoided.
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  Speaker 3: We're in twenty six, this is when.
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  Speaker 2: Some years of battling.
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  Speaker 3: This isn't the you know, fun stuff, right, And so
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  Speaker 3: you know, just a little bit on procrastination too, you know,
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  Speaker 3: don't put things off so you you know, prevent you
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  Speaker 3: from doing your planning. Remember, you could be incapacitated a
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  Speaker 3: little and still have the capacity you need to do
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  Speaker 3: a will. Like early dementia alone is not enough to
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  Speaker 3: prevent you from doing your planning. So even if you're
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  Speaker 3: out there listening and you're saying, well, geez, I don't
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  Speaker 3: want to put it off any longer, but I have dementia, Well,
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  Speaker 3: you still might have the capacity you need to understand
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  Speaker 3: the nature of your bounty and then still do your will.
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  Speaker 3: You might not have contractual capacity, but you might have
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  Speaker 3: testamentary capacity. So that's a big difference. And folks, if
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: you're even worried about it a little, get a doctor's note.
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  Speaker 3: That's going to protect you, your family, everybody because it's
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: going to at least take away that ability to say
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  Speaker 3: you didn't have capacity. Oh yes I did, so at
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  Speaker 3: least that's covered.
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  Speaker 2: And if you do a trust, you go to the
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  Speaker 2: hassle in the time of putting that together. I would
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  Speaker 2: think that that would stick a little more than a
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  Speaker 2: will that you might have downloaded on the internet somewhere
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  Speaker 2: and brought to the hospital because your mother was dying.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you're right, they did it on the hospital
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: day here and everything. Folks don't put things off. Get
• 10:01
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  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
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  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing in Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
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  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We've got much
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  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Toddlutsky. I'm Susan Powers,
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  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and I'm
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: joined by Todd Leutsky, a partner with the law firm
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: of Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation. Where
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: we headed now.
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: Todd, let's take a peek utah okay an appellet court
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  Speaker 3: case there? This one? You know?
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  Speaker 1: Is it?
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  Speaker 3: This is the one where the power of attorney was executed,
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  Speaker 3: but we're not sure it was executed with capacity? Yeah? Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: So Tony is it Shay or hey Shay Hesh? I
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: can't pronounce his last name.
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  Speaker 2: Uh.
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  Speaker 3: His estate has been in litigation for years. Allegations was
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: that there's a The allegation primarily involved was that Tony
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  Speaker 3: lacked capacity when he signed a power of attorney in
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: twenty twenty. I mean, you wasn't thinking a state this
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: large would be fighting over a power of attorney, right,
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: But yes, because then the attorney in fact proceeded to
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: sign a retainer agreement, hiring Brown and Brown law firm,
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: and then entering into real estate transactions, forming various business
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  Speaker 3: entities all on Tony's behalf.
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  Speaker 2: How does he not have a trust?
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  Speaker 3: But beyond that, if this power of attorney is not good,
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: what happens to all those?
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  Speaker 2: Right?
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  Speaker 3: This is this is the issue. Right. So so you know,
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: again maybe a lot of these things were designed for
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: estate planning. It doesn't really get into it. I think,
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: you know, it could have been like we're trying to
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: put together you know, uh, non voting and voting shares.
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: Maybe we're going to start gifting away these business entities
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: to get them out of the estate. We do these
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: kinds of things.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: Not have all of that in place while he's competent
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: building this empire. This is that's amazing to me.
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  Speaker 3: It's absolutely mind boggling, mind blowing that you know, and
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: first of all, if you are yeah, if you are competent,
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: and you're and you're building an empire, the last thing
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: you want is somebody else doing it for you.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Uh.
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  Speaker 3: Not that you wouldn't have a power of attorney, I
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: think you should have one. But wow, so all those
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: things get done again, I'm thinking these might have been
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: done for estate planning purposes. Well, Brown and Brown files
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  Speaker 3: a motion to dismiss because the estate is alleging that
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  Speaker 3: the power of attorney is no good and so the
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: estate then provides evidence that Tony had ongoing drug use.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: There's testimony from his friends as to this effect. Doctors
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: were supporting this activity, saying, yes, we can support that
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: he had ongoing drug use. He was also experiencing delusions
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: leading up to the day of the execution of the
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  Speaker 3: power of attorney. According to the estate, the district court
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  Speaker 3: decided to grant the motion striking. Remember, the emotion to
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: dismiss was filed by Brown and Brown, and they granted
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: the motion to strike. A motion to dismiss excuse me,
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: stating that the estate did not meet its burden of
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: proof at was in fact incapacitated. Well, the estate appealed
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: the appellate court reversed and remanded the issue of Tony's incapacity,
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: concluding that the estate had provided evidence that Tony was
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: incapacitated and that that should really be pursued. You can't
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  Speaker 3: just dismiss the case with the amount of evidence that
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: the attorney did provide you.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I just wish we weren't on just radio, I know,
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: so that everyone could see the face I'm making you
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: at you on behalf of all the living listeners.
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  Speaker 3: Because we don't have an answer.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: We don't like romandic cases. We like answers, we like results.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: This a case has been apparently in litigation for years.
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: So surprised that it's not over yet, And I think
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: that makes sense. I know we don't like the decision,
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: but I think it's the right decision. It seems to
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: me that there was enough evidence presented to at least
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: raise a doubt as to whether or not this person
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: and had capacity, and so I don't think you can
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: file a motion to dismiss. There's enough there to at
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: least pursue it, at least take a peek. At least.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: It's a big company, so it's likely we're going to
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: find out what the results aren't as opposed to all
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: the cases you've kept us hanging on forever.
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: You just want to problem. Come that list, that'll come back.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: We'll make a list. They'll give you some homework to
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: figure out what happened.
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: Speaking of lists, I've got the top eight estate planning
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: trusts in a list in this guide for you, folks.
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: Lots of times we don't know how to begin our plan.
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: This deals with things from as basic as nominy realty
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: trusts all the way up to you know, irrevocable life
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: insurance trust, gifting trusts, and different irrevocable medicaid trusts. They're
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: very different than a life insurance trust. Of course, your
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: your revocable trusts are in here. You have pool trusts
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: in here. Special needs if you have a child that
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: you want to figure out how to handle that for them, Folks,
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: something for everybody. If you've started, see if you need
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: a change. If you've not started, get the guide. Pick
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: the trust that's right for you. It's the end of
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: the month, so call and get it. Eight six six
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: eight four eight five six ninety nine or Legal Exchange
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: show dot Com again eight six six eight four eight
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: five six nine nine or Legal Exchange show dot com
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: or you can go to Cushing Dolan PC on our
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: Instagram page for more information. Okay, last minute planning, this
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: is really what this is about. Right, But you know
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: we didn't do something. We're doing last minute planning. I mean,
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: there's no answer for this. I'm just gonna give you
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: some guidance here, right.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: If you find yourself in this situation.
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, this is a case where it demonstrates
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: how not planning can result in years, years of unnecessary
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: litigation hourly. Yeah, not to mention the fact that there
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: was no estate tax sheltering done because there was no trust.
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: I can't imagine there's not a huge just a tax
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: problem here.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: I don't know if he's married or not. But again,
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: if you're married and you've got assets, doing nothing or
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: having a power of attorney or a will is it's
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: not going to help you shelter any assets for a
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: state taxes. So that's important. And of course, I mean
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: I can't imagine the wishes of how he wants his
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: assets to go or anywhere near going to be followed, right,
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: I don't even know what's going to happen to these assets, right,
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: So forget you know, probate and the tax problems that
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: exist here. I get that, but really, the family behind
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: the estate plan, I mean to me that that should
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: be enough reason to sort of motivate you to do
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: your planning, you know anyway, And so I just I
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: just can't say enough about it. And remember, the most
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: important thing here is that the reason the power of
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: attorney is such a big problem is all the things
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: that were done by the power of attorney will have failed.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: Unwinding it either if it is so business I mean.
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: I mean, if your power of attorney is turned out
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: to be no good, then none of those activities that
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: you signed are valid.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: Wow, So the estate must be if there's a wife,
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: if there's children, if you know, those are the people
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: that are fighting it right, So so got to be
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: the people that would land in that intestate succession.
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: Where's the stuff going? You know, why are we waiting
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: so long?
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: Now?
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: Remember, if you do have a power of attorney, if
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: this does exist and it was done right, it can
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: save the day at the at the end, meaning if
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: you had not done planning and you're listening and you say, well, geez,
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: but we do have a power of attorney. But we
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: never actually did anything more than basic documents. Is it
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: too late to do something? Not?
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: Not?
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: Really, it might be and the power of attorney could
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: save the day here. So even though it for Tony
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: it might not have if it's done right, it could
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: right in this case. Just just understand that it cannot
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: be used to create a will or a healthcare proxy,
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: or a living will or a hippoform. Can't be used
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: for that. However, if it's drafted right, you can use
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: it to create LLC's transfer real estate to LLC's sell
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: real estate. And again, if it's drafted correctly, it can
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: even allow you to create and fund a trust. So
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: therefore you could have you know, you've folded around with
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: these things. I get it, But you could have actually
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: done an estate plan right if you have the ability
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: to do it. So, they could create a trust, transfer
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: the real estate to the trust, transfer investments to the trust,
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: investment portfolios fund the trust, get it all set up.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: You could have even created an irvocable trust if you
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: needed to. You could have made gifts to the era
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: ofvocable trust. With these powers of attorney, folks, I mean,
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: this is a high net worth person. You could have
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: done all this kind of lifetime gifting and set up
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: an entire estate plan with the power of attorney. So hey,
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: having it was better than not having it.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: It's going to work.
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: If it's gonna work, and.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: So we say, I may not find out if it works.
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: Well, we may not. We'll see better, We'll see. But
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: you know, I think that just a little lessons for
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: you that if you haven't done your planning and you
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: happen to have a power of attorney in place, at
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: least it might be able to help you still get
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: to your planning. But if you haven't done your planning
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: and have the capacity, please call and get the top guides.
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: Eight estate planning trusts that work for you. Find out
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: which one's right for you. End of the month, folks,
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: call and get it eight six six eight four eight
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: five six ninety nine or Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and Todd will
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: be answering their listener questions when we return to the
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: The State planning isn't just about writing a will. The
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: right trust can help your family avoid probate, protect your home,
• 23:56
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• 23:59
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• 24:02
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• 24:05
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• 24:09
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• 24:12
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• 24:14
  Speaker 1: keep your family's affairs private. The guide also explains some
• 24:18
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• 24:21
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• 24:27
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• 24:33
  Speaker 1: That's eight sixty six eight four eight five six nine nine,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: or request it online at Legal exchange show dot com.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for in The views expressed are
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan and
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: other and are not affiliated.
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  Speaker 2: HI.
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  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
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  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide a specific financial, legal or tax advice. Consult
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: your own financial, tax and estate planning advisors before making
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  Speaker 1: or request it online at legal exchange show dot com.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for in The views expressed are
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan A
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal investment services.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: Cushing In, Doolin and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: other and are not affiliated. For veterans, every day is
• 26:22
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• 26:26
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• 26:29
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• 26:48
  Speaker 1: dav five k dot Boston. You're listening to the Legal Exchange,
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: and it's time for Ask Todd, the segment where Todd
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: will answer your questions about anything and everything that's in
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: included in the estate planning process. Once again, here's Tod
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Lutsky and Susan Powers.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Welcome back, Tob. We have a few questions from listeners
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: for you. First question comes from Jennifer in Weymouth, mass
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: And Jennifer writes, my long term partner recently passed away.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: We were together for fifteen years and we lived in
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: a home that he owned. He is still married though
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: they have been separated for twenty five years. What happens
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: to his house now? Do I have any rights or
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: will his estranged wife receive the property? He does not
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: have any children. We have a few clients that are
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: still married to other people but have been a part
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: for twenty five thirty years and they have other partners.
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: Wow. Yeah, I have to share this with you because
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: it reminds me of the one story I have where
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: you meet clients every day and they come in and
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: you ask their names and their age and their address. Well,
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: these this couple had different last names, so that doesn't
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: mean it can say they don't always take the name.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: So I said, okay, so I see you have different
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: last names. I just want to check make sure you
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: guys are married, yes, but not to each other. I'm like,
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: I don't even know where to go with this. What's
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: the next thing I can do to represent both of you?
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: When you're married to somebody but not each other, but
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: you're here to do planning for you. That was a
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: fun meeting. Yeah, I think we worked with him, but
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: that was a fun meeting. Anyways. That kind of reminds
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: me of this, right, because this person's married to somebody
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: else but living in this house. I wonder was the
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: house owned at.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: The house, it's only owned by him, so it was
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: only owned by him. His girlfriend lives there. They've lived
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: together for fifteen years.
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: But nothing in place. There's nothing in place, nothing in place. Yeah,
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: she's pretty much out. I mean if the fact that
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: she's living there doesn't matter really legally, I mean, she's
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: allowed to live there. He's allowed to let anybody live
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: in his house that he wants to let live in
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: his house. That doesn't automatically give that person ownership of
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: the house. So if it's only in his name alone,
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: and he doesn't even have a will, we're back to
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: that situation where I would think intestate succession would apply. Yeah,
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: and he doesn't have any children, but he's married. He
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: hasn't a strange ex wife, but they're still married. But
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: they're still married. So I mean legally, I think I
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: think in the intestate succession statue it will say you know,
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: you know, are you married yes? Do you have kids?
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: No?
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: Or do you have a spouse yes. I think we stop.
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: I think it's probably a hard stop. The no kids
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: in a spouse the spouse would take. So I have
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: a funny feeling the spouse gets the house.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: Is Massachusetts, I don't even know. And I know you
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: don't do this as a as an area, but is
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: that is it a common.
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: Law Yeah, I mean there's common law marriage situations. I
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: mean you might have some argument, it's going to be
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: a battle, yeah, I mean, this isn't a this isn't
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: a quick answer. So you know, I think that the
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: knee jerk reaction is, you know, she's out.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: And depending on why, they never got divorced. I mean
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: it could have been that they couldn't agree on things.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: His ex wife might not have agreed to get divorced.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, you don't get to get divorced because you
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: don't have agreed to be the procrastination show for sure.
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, if you hired a lawyer, you don't
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: get to say I'm not going to get divorced just
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: because I don't agree. They're going to make you agree
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: to something. Ye, the divorce won't just say okay, well
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: then just forget it. We won't get divorced. Yeah. I
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: don't think that's how it works, right, So, I mean
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: you can't be forced to stay married to somebody.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: So anyways, Yeah, I think this is a big problem
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: at least with regard to the house and who knows that.
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: The only thing you can think about that's not listed
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: here is, you know, maybe maybe there's some joint bank
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: accounts or joint brokerage accounts that that happened to be
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: in her name, the partner's name. If they're in the
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: partner's name and there's no will, then it's a avoiding probate,
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: so it would avoid the intestate succession statute. And it
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: would go directly to the joint owner. Yeah, you don't
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: have to be married to be a joint owner with somebody,
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: So I think that's probably the answer. Again, I think
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: the issue here is it's funny you had a procrastination question,
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: and basically both our cases were that. Folks there not
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: planning part is really a problem and can be for
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: the again, the family behind the estate plan more than
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: anything else, but of course taxes and probate. So folks,
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: top eight estate planning trusts out there today, end of
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: the month, call and get it. It's going to give
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: you an idea of what one might be right for
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: you to get started. And if you've already been planning,
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: it might give you an idea to say, well, maybe
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: it's time to switch from my revocable to my irrevocable.
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: If I just understood how they work, it explains everything,
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: how the taxes work, how to fund it, how they operate.
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: It's not just a short list of trusts. Call and
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: get it eight six six eight four eight five six
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: ninety nine or legal exchange show dot com. You can
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: download it right there again eight six six eight four
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com,
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: and you can also go to Cushing Dollan pc our
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: Instagram page for more.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: Tod our last question comes from Deb in Sagas, mass
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: and she writes, my husband and I set up two
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: irrevocable trusts with you a few years ago.
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: That's good.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: My husband is only sixty, but he is in failing health.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: I will be receiving an inherited i aray from my
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: father who recently passed that is worth seven hundred thousand.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: Can I transfer this into my irrevocable trust once I
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: receive it. I'm concerned my husband won't make another five
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: years before needing long term care.
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: So I mean, I think you got to look at
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: a lot of things that are going on here. I
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: think good news is that that we have trust that
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: were set up years ago. I mean, what's in there.
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: There's there's things not to forget about. I mean, there's
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: probably a house in there. There's could be multiple houses
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: in there, there could be an investment portfolio in there.
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: So don't overlook deb the fact that there's a lot
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: that's protected.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: And if they and if he was already in feeling hell,
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: they probably put as much as they could.
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: I would think it's time into them. I would think so,
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: And it says a few years ago, so you know,
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: maybe we got enough time to get past that initial
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: five years, right, So transferring things now, whether you can
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: or cannot, is not a good idea. I wouldn't probably
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: be creating a new five year waiting period if I
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: know somebody is already yeah down the path, probably not
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: gonna make the five years, and you might even know
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: if they're going to make a year or two. So
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: there might be some other last minute things you can do.
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: But the question here is, you know, do we transfer
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: it to the trust? So I say, whether you can
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: or you can't, I probably wouldn't do it. I say
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: that because because in this case it's an ira, and
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: well you can you really can't. Because if you were
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: to take this inherited ira, which I don't know what
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: it's worth, seven hundred thousand there it is. I mean,
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: if you were to take seven hundred thousand dollars from
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: an inherited ira, put it in your name, I mean,
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: at a bare minimum, you're looking at probably two hundred
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: and eighty thousand dollars in tax, maybe a little less,
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: because it's pro rated. I mean, why would I want
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: to give away that kind of money to just put
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: it in a trust that one might not even make
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: the five years anyway, And now I've wasted all that money.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: So tax money.
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, hard stop on that idea. And remember even
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: though you'll say, and maybe the intuitive question is, well,
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: well then what do we do with it?
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: And she's got to take it all out within ten
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: years because it's inherited and just get it now.
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: That's true. So it's a great point. So I think
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: at the end of the day, the answer is, no,
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: we we don't put it in. But if he does
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: need health like your own IRA, which is also not
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: in these trusts that I did for you, and in
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: his IRA, if there is one, is not in these
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: trusts for all the same reasons. But whatever's outside the trust,
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: we would then buy an annuity.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: So she could do that with this inherited money.
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: She sure could. She could buy that annuity right inside
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: the IRA. And as long I don't know the age
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: of her. Remember these annuities can't last longer than the
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: life expectancy of the individual.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, her husband's only sixteen, Oh so she's young.
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so she's young, So we could easily have the
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: annuity be a ten year payout right, and that that
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: means it would not disqualify it from the Medicaid you know,
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: the what is it called the rich the Secure Act
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: Secure Actor lost track there. The Secure Act won't be
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: violated and you won't violate the annuity rules, so you
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: can you can probably just do that. Yeah, and so.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: There's definitely things that can be done.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's some last minute things that I would be
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: focused on here if that happens. But don't make any
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: more gifts. But folks, interesting because this is one talking
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: about the Medicaid Income Only Trust that we did. That's
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: in the guide, how it works, how to fund it,
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: how it operates, the tax ramifications, everything, along with seven
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: other trusts. End of the month, folks, call and get
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: it eight six six eight four eight five six ninety
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com. You can download
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: it there. Again, it's the end of the month.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: If you have a question you would like to ask Todd,
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: visit his website Legal Exchange Show dot com and click
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: on the as Tod tab. Maybe I'll be able to
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: read your question on the air, and hopefully his answer
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: will stop you from becoming one of his next real
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: life stories. You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers,
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We'll be
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: back with more after this quick break on the legal
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: Exchange with Todd Ludski.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: The state planning isn't just about writing a will. The
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: right trust can help your family avoid probate, protect your home,
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: reduce estate taxes, and even help shield assets from the
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: cost of long term care. That's why Cushing and Dolan
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: created a new guide called Demistifying the Top eight Estate
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: Planning Trusts. Inside you'll learn the difference between revocable and
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: irrevocable trusts, why some trusts are designed to protect assets
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: from a nursing home, and how certain trusts can keep
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: your family's affairs private. The guide also explains some of
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: the biggest mistakes families make, including creating trusts but never
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: properly funding them. If you've been putting off of state planning,
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: this guide is a great place to start. Call Cushing
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: and Dolan today at eight sixty six eight four eight
• 37:47
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• 37:50
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• 37:53
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• 37:56
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• 38:03
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• 38:05
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• 38:07
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• 38:07
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• 38:10
  Speaker 4: missed retirement deadline could cost you thousands of dollars. Our
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: new guide Understanding rmds breaks down the rules for required
• 38:18
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• 38:21
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• 38:23
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• 38:25
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• 38:28
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• 38:31
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• 38:34
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• 38:38
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• 38:41
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• 38:49
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• 38:53
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• 38:54
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• 38:57
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• 38:59
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• 39:01
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• 39:38
  Speaker 1: Estate planning isn't just about writing a will. The right
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: trust can help your family avoid probate, protect your home,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: reduce estate taxes, and even help shield assets from the
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: cost of long term care. That's why Cushing and Dolan
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: created a new guide called Demystifying the Top eight Estate
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: Planning Trusts. Inside you'll learn the difference between revocable and
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: irrevocable trusts, why some trusts are designed to protect assets
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: from a nursing home, and how certain trusts can keep
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: your family's affairs private. The guide also explains some of
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: the biggest mistakes families make, including creating trusts but never
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: properly funding them. If you've been putting off of state planning,
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: this guide is a great place to start. Call Cushing
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: and Dolan today at eight sixty six eight four eight
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: five six ninety nine to get your free copy that's
• 40:21
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• 40:24
  Speaker 1: or request it online at Legal exchange show dot com.
• 40:27
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• 40:29
  Speaker 1: solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan and
• 40:31
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• 40:34
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• 40:36
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• 40:40
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• 40:42
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• 40:45
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• 40:53
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• 40:58
  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the legally Exchange with Todd Lusky. I'm
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined, of course by Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: with a law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: master's in taxation. Todd, I want to talk about pooled
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: trust today. This is one of the trusts that's included
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: in your guide. Yes, made it to the top eight.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: It is as they went away for a little while
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: and now it's back. So this is the comeback tour
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: of the pooled trust.
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: Yes, that's been a tru it's been a trial and
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: tribulated document.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: It has it's a badgered trust. Yes, let's talk about
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: what exactly is a pooled trust.
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: So it's it's very interesting because it's a trust that
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: we actually don't create. Okay, So that's the first kind
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: of thing you think, well, geez, you know, God why now,
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: Chrishigan Dolan, you guys are creating all the trust yet,
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: we do, but but not this one. This one is
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: set up and created already by usually a financial company
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: that's involved with holding the money that's going to go
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: into the pool trust, and it's designed by them because
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: there has to be a trustee on the trust that
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: is a charity. So generally in Massachusetts we use this
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: charity called Planned. It's called Plan of Massachusetts and Rhode Island,
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: that's what it's called. And it's a charity, you know.
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: And so they'll serve as trustee, and the institution has
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: the trust already created where you say, okay, we're now
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: putting money into the pool trust. The funding it goes
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: into that pool trust.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: Okay. So why would someone use this type of trust
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: versus any of your other trusts that you use.
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very specific, right, It's it's not something that
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: everybody would use. This is something that's used primarily by
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: single people, okay. Number one. Number two generally fly old
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: people that are entering a nursing home okay, without any
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: planning done.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: So it's a last minute medicaid.
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: Planning, it really is. But more than that, it's narrowly
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: defined because again, as a married couple, you would never
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: use this. Even if you're both like in your late
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: eighties and one gets sick, we would not use the
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: polled trust. We would just transfer all the assets to
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: the healthy spouse and then buy an annuity for the
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: healthy spouse or something.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: Okay, because we have alternatives, better planning options available.
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: Better last minute planning options. These are both last mining.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: Okay, but from that perspective, yeah, but better last With
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: a single person, you can't transfer to anybody because five years, right,
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: you disqualify.
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: You don't have the spouse, So if you don't have
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: the spouse, then you're kind of stuck. And you say, okay,
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: and let's say you could do an annuity for a
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: single person.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: I was just going to ask that question, why wouldn't
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: you do an annuity versus a pooled trial?
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: And that's a great, a great point. I would say,
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: you know, age is going to matter, and the amount
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: of assets is going to matter. So you know, if
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: you have, like, you know, eight hundred thousand dollars and
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: you're ninety years old, well if I try to buy
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: an annuity over three years, because the life expectancy is
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: three years, right.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: And it can't beer than their life expecting.
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: Can't be longer than that. The payout is going to
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: far exceed fifteen sixteen thousand a month the cost of care,
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: which is the cost of care. So so the numbers
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: just don't work sometimes for a single person based on age,
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: life expectancy, and dollar.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: Amount how much they have.
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: So if you run into that problem, then I would
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: fall back on this pooled trust, which is you just
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: throw the money in there, and by putting the money
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: in there, it's deemed a non disqualifying transfer five year
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: look back, right, and so you're a me imediately eligible
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: for Medicaid, which is good because of the leverage, but
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: there's going to be a payback.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: Okay, So okay, we'll explore that.
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but folks, that's one of the trusts in the
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: top eight estate planning trust. It's the end of the month, folks,
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: so call and get this guide. It's going away. It's
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: got pool trusts in it. It's got irrevocable life insurance trust,
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: irrevocable Medicaid trust, the old Nominee Realty trust that many
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: of you have thrown your house into and forgot about
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: regular revocable trusts and much more and not just a list.
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: It's not a top eight list. It explains funding, it
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: explains how they operate, explains how it saves taxes, just
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: positive provisions. Folks call and get it end of the
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: Month eight six six eight four eight five six ninety
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com. You can download
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: it there eight six six eight four eight five six
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: ninety nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com. And you
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: can always go to Cushing, Dole and PC for more information.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: So it sounds kind of like a loophole to me
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: because there's no look back period. So why would you
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: do any other kind of trust? Just wait and if
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: you happen to go into a nursing home, throw everything
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: in a pool trust.
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: Well, because there's lots and lots of reasons right for
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: that one. You want to do a state planning, right,
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: you want to take care of each other, You want
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: to take care of your kids, take care of your family,
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: and this isn't really designed for that. Okay, this is
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: this is not going to have a state tax sheltering
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: ideas in it. It's not gonna have any of that.
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: In addition, it doesn't save the asset from the nursing
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: home like the trust do. Yeah, right, And that's probably
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: the biggest difference because if you put, if you did
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: a Medicaid income only irrevocable trust, five years later, it's
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: completely sheltered. It's not there's no payback, not, there's no
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: nothing at risk. It voids probate, shelter, everything. So clearly
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: this is strictly a last minute give it a shot,
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: no other option, no other option. And I think the
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: biggest reason, the biggest difference is now, let's say we've
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: carried out the string for this particular person who's now
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: put I'll say eight hundred thousand dollars in. Well, what happens, Well,
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: the Medicaid rate falls from sixteen thousand a month down
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: to about seven, which is good. Yeah, And say I've
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: got three in social Security and pension, I only owe
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: four yep, So the payback provision is building up at
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: a rate of about four thousand a month.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: Okay, So easy math will say it's fifty grand a year.
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: That's better sure than what would be the case, especially
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: if I'm somewhat elderly in a nursing home. Way better
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: than private pay way better because I remember private paying
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: even the short term a year or two, it's gone, yeah,
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: you know, a year or two. This way you have
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: a lot left.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: So that payback provision is kind of like a lean
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: on your assets that are in that trust that you
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: have to pay back when you die.
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: Two things actually, so one we've leveraged it, hopefully stretching
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: out the money so that there's something left for the family,
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: which of course was the wish of the person in
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: the nursing home pay back. Yes, there's another little glitch.
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: Remember the charity that's serving as trustee. So the first
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: thing you do actually is if you're in the nursing
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: home for less than two years, yep, then you have
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: to look at the balance of the dock. However, much
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: money is left in the pool trust, which generally just
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: not going anywhere, it's just growing, right, So whatever's left
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: in the pool trust, you have to then pay ten
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: percent of that to the charity for less than two years.
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: For less than two years two years or more, you
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: got to give the charity twenty percent.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: Which makes sense they've been serving as trustee for longer period.
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: Got to pay the charity twenty percent. Then after you
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: do that, you then have to say, well, what do
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: we owe the state?
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: So charity gets paid first before this date the big
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: pile makes which makes sense.
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: At this points. I guess it does, because if I'm
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: going to get ten or twenty percent, I want ten
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: or twenty percent of a bigger number than I do
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: of a smaller number. Then and again it doesn't hurt
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: the state at all because the state's getting a fixed number,
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: so unless it takes away enough money that there's not
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: any money left for the state, but that doesn't usually happen,
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: and then the state gets paid. Whatever that accumulation is
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: shows up and there'll be records of that. And then
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: the nice part about it is, look, at the end
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: of the day, you know a charity one that's good
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: for the charity. The state got reimbursed, so they're made whole,
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: so they're not harmed. And now there might be because
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: it was stretched out on the Medicaid rate, there might
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: be something left for the family, and so the family wins.
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: And quite frankly, the person that was in the nursing
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: home wishes were honored, which so that person technically wins.
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: So this is really been one of those cases where
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: I can't imagine why it was being so challenged. You
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: know that finally the state stepped in and legislated it
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: into existence. Yeah so, folks, that's a pool trust. That's
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: how they work and they're effective. But the guide offers
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: seven other trusts. It's the end of the month, folks,
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: last chance to get it. You got a special needs child,
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: it's listed in there. You need to understand ear revs
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: versus revs. It's in there. Call and get the guide
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: eight six six eight four eight, five six nine nine
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: or Legal Exchange show dot com and again not a
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: top ten list, our top eight list, but explains the
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: trusts eight six six eight four eight five six nine
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: to nine.
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: Todd Lutsky from the law firm of Cushing and Dolan,
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: thank you so much.
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Susan. Always a pleasure.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: I'm Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: We thank you for joining us and we'll be back
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: again next week on the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Estate planning isn't just about writing a will. The right
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: trust can help your family avoid probate, protect your home,
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: reduce estate taxes, and even help shield assets from the
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: cost of long term care. That's why Cushing and Dolan
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: created a new guide called Demistifying the Top eight Estate
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: planning Trusts. Inside you'll learn the difference between revocable and
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: irrevocable trusts, why some trusts are designed to protect assets
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: from a nursing home, and how certain trusts can keep
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: your family's affairs private. The guide also explains some of
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: the biggest mistakes families make, including creating trusts but never
• 51:31
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