Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Justice for Missing Brothers Orrin, 3, and Orson, 4

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Justice for Missing Brothers Orrin, 3, and Orson, 4 · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Murdered or Missing, Attorneys and
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  Speaker 1: prosecutors launched the trial of Trizell and Jacqueline West after
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  Speaker 1: two little boys, Oran four and Orson three go missing,
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  Speaker 1: their bodies never found. In the last days breaking news.
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  Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
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  Speaker 1: being with us here at Fox Nation and serious XEM
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  Speaker 1: one eleven. The faces of these two little boys, four
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  Speaker 1: year old Oran and three year old Orson go national
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  Speaker 1: as people all across the country join in the search
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  Speaker 1: for them. How did the search begin? How did the
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  Speaker 1: boys go missing?
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  Speaker 2: The children West and or In West were last seen
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  Speaker 2: in the ten thousand, seven hundred bloc of Aspen Avenue.
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  Speaker 2: They're described as African American, about three free tall, both
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  Speaker 2: wearing black sweatshirts and gray sweatpants.
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  Speaker 1: You were just hearing our friends at kge T seventeen news.
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  Speaker 1: That was Taylor Shap And what Taylor Shap said breaks
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  Speaker 1: my heart because I'm thinking of my children, John, David
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  Speaker 1: and Lucy at age three. They're twins at three feet tall.
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  Speaker 1: Where these two wearing black sweatshirts and gray sweatpants. Now,
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  Speaker 1: how does not one little child disappear? Say, at the
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  Speaker 1: shopping mall or at the playground, how did two of
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  Speaker 1: them just disappear? With me an all star panel to
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  Speaker 1: break it down and put it back together again. Let
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  Speaker 1: me tell you first name you know very well. A
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  Speaker 1: hero and advocate, Mark Klass, the founder of Class Kids
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  Speaker 1: Foundation who's devoted his life to finding missing people, especially children,
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  Speaker 1: at the disappearance of his little girl, Polly. Kathleen Murphy,
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  Speaker 1: North Carolina, a trial lawyer at Ncdomestic Law dot com.
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  Speaker 1: Doctor Angela Arnold, renown psychiatrist joining us out of the
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  Speaker 1: Atlanta jurisdiction at Angela Arnold MD dot com. You know
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  Speaker 1: this name very well. Cheryl McCollum, founder and director of
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  Speaker 1: the Cold Case Research Institute, and crime scene expert. Joseph
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  Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, Professor Forensicks Jacksonville State University, author of Blood
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  Speaker 1: Beneath My Feet on Amazon. But first we're going to
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  Speaker 1: a special guest joining us, Byon Wang with twenty three
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  Speaker 1: ABC N Bakersville. You know Byon. First of all, thank
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  Speaker 1: you for being with us. I've covered so many missing
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  Speaker 1: people cases, especially children, and investigating them as a felony
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  Speaker 1: prosecutor in intercity Atlanta, and I usually see one child missing,
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  Speaker 1: one person missing. It's very rare, very rare, indeed beyond
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  Speaker 1: for two children to go missing at the same time,
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  Speaker 1: and it brings to mind, for instance, two little children
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  Speaker 1: playing in the front yard and they decide to walk
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  Speaker 1: down the street and then they're missing, or two children
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  Speaker 1: getting away from mommy at the shopping mall. I want
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  Speaker 1: to hear exactly what you can tell me surrounding the
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  Speaker 1: facts of this case, by Yond Wang, because every fact,
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  Speaker 1: every single fact means something, including the time of the
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  Speaker 1: day daylight or dark, the type of neighborhood, residential apartment,
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  Speaker 1: tree lined business district, shopping mall. Every single thing matters.
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  Speaker 1: So Byon Wang, first of all, tell me about the
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  Speaker 1: area where did they go missing.
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  Speaker 3: They went missing in California City. That's the population of
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  Speaker 3: about fourteen thousand. It's surrounded by hundreds of miles of desert.
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  Speaker 3: It's the third largest land area in California.
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  Speaker 1: What do you mean the third largest land area. I
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  Speaker 1: mean the whole state of California is land. What do
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  Speaker 1: you mean by the third largest Listen, Mayon, I appreciate
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  Speaker 1: your details, but I'm just a trial lawyer. You have
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  Speaker 1: to break it down for people like me, what do
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  Speaker 1: you mean the third largest land area.
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  Speaker 3: Well, Nancy, this community is in the middle of the
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  Speaker 3: Mahagi Desert. I mean you just go on Google Maps
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  Speaker 3: and you look at it and there's hundreds of miles
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  Speaker 3: of desert, a lot of it unoccupied. So this small township,
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  Speaker 3: you know, the community, you could imagine this case weighing
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  Speaker 3: in on their hearts. They are desperate to find these
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  Speaker 3: little guys.
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  Speaker 1: Hold on beyond one because I want to go to
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  Speaker 1: our expert, Mark Class Founder Class Kids at classkids dot org. Mark,
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  Speaker 1: that presents a big problem. First of all, you've got
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  Speaker 1: a very small town, bigger than where I grew up,
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  Speaker 1: Mark Class but still fourteen thousand rules out to an
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  Speaker 1: extent like strangers passing through. But you've got that factor
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  Speaker 1: Mark Class combined with as Beyond Wang by Yond Wang
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  Speaker 1: just told us huge expanse of desert, nobody living there.
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  Speaker 1: That presents a problem. Mark classifying is three and four
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  Speaker 1: year old little boy.
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  Speaker 4: Indeed it does, Nancy, And for prefaces, I'd like to
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  Speaker 4: say that Class Kids Foundation has had our busiest year
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  Speaker 4: ever with missing child cases. So this is a crime
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  Speaker 4: that endures and just keeps getting worse and worse and worse.
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  Speaker 4: Now back to what you said. You know, there's generally
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  Speaker 4: about one hundred and five tw one hundred and fifteen
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  Speaker 4: stereotypical kidnappings in the United States in a given year.
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  Speaker 4: And when I say stereotypical stranger kidnappings, I mean somebody
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  Speaker 4: coming out of absolutely nowhere and taking the children. And
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  Speaker 4: in the vast majority of those cases, there's only one
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  Speaker 4: child involved, and more often than not, it would be
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  Speaker 4: a girl between six and twelve years old.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, well, you got me drinking out of fire. Aydrect,
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  Speaker 1: it's too much, too fast. Hold on, I'm taking in
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  Speaker 1: everything you're saying, which contradicts everything about this case Beyon
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  Speaker 1: Wang is telling us, and he's absolutely correct. Okay, let
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  Speaker 1: me pick it up from where you dropped off that
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  Speaker 1: that much is soaked and go ahead. Oh okay.
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  Speaker 4: Well, so we're in a situation here where as Byon said,
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  Speaker 4: you know, you've got a massive land mass and you've
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  Speaker 4: got two tiny little children, just tiny little children, and
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  Speaker 4: we have to figure out where on that land mass
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  Speaker 4: or in that land mass those children are, whether it's
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  Speaker 4: above ground and they're thriving someplace, or whether they harm
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  Speaker 4: has been done to them and they've been buried.
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  Speaker 1: No, the way you say that, Mark Class, it just
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  Speaker 1: you know, trills off the tip of your tongue because
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  Speaker 1: you're used to it, saying that a three and a
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  Speaker 1: four year old little child could be buried somewhere. But
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  Speaker 1: for people that don't deal with it every day like
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  Speaker 1: you do, like I do, like everybody on this panel does,
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  Speaker 1: that's a tough that's a tough pill to swallow, what
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  Speaker 1: you said. But you're absolutely correct. We're talking about two
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  Speaker 1: little children, just three and four years old. Straight back
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  Speaker 1: to you by Yond Wang, twenty three ABC News. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: we went off on a tangent, but that was important
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  Speaker 1: because if these children are somehow byyond out in the
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  Speaker 1: middle or even at the edge of this desert, if
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  Speaker 1: somehow they've gotten there, it's over. Back to you, Beyond Wang,
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  Speaker 1: reporter twenty three ABC. I get the area. Were they
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  Speaker 1: in a home, an apartment, a mall? What can you
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  Speaker 1: tell me about that?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, so they were reported missing out of their home.
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  Speaker 3: Their adoptive parents, Jacqueline and Trazelle West, reported them missing
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  Speaker 3: from their home. Essentially, they say that the kids were
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  Speaker 3: playing with chalk in their backyard, not in the front
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  Speaker 3: yard in the backyard of their home, and then boom,
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  Speaker 3: they suddenly disappeared. The father, Trezelle, says he was essentially
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  Speaker 3: gathering wood to start a fire while the mother was
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  Speaker 3: wrapping Christmas presents for the boys.
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  Speaker 1: Now twenty three NBC, Do you have children?
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  Speaker 3: Not yet?
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  Speaker 1: Okay, listen to me. You'll find out about this. Jackie.
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  Speaker 1: Back me up on this. When you're wrapping or preparing
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  Speaker 1: Christmas gifts, you want the children to be somewhere else.
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  Speaker 1: And I'm not going to go into wand because it's
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  Speaker 1: very mysterious, but it's my understanding. The mom was wrapping
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  Speaker 1: Christmas gifts. She sent three and four year old orson
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  Speaker 1: and or in outside. The dad was collecting firewood for
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  Speaker 1: a fireplace. I mean, you know, Cheryl McCollum, Founder Director
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  Speaker 1: Cold Case Research Institute, it sounds like a Christmas card,
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  Speaker 1: really building a fire in the fireplace, wrapping Christmas presents,
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  Speaker 1: sending the two little boys outside the place and don't
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  Speaker 1: see what's getting wrapped, and then all of a sudden
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  Speaker 1: they're gone. I'm sorry, go ahead, Cheryl.
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  Speaker 5: It's all too perfect. The minute I heard it, what
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  Speaker 5: leaked out at me is mom's wrapping Christmas gifts and
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  Speaker 5: Daddy is starting a fire and the children are doing artwork.
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  Speaker 5: That is bogus.
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  Speaker 4: Oh.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know what planet you come from, but that's
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  Speaker 1: exactly what we do around Christmas. And I try everything
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  Speaker 1: I can think of to get the children to go
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  Speaker 1: somewhere other that where I am, because I'm working on
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  Speaker 1: you know what. But hold on, I hear what you're saying,
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  Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum. So, byon, am I right that mom was
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  Speaker 1: wrapping Christmas gifts?
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  Speaker 4: Nancy?
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  Speaker 3: That's what we're being told the parents. That's right. The
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  Speaker 3: mother said she was wrapping Christmas gifts during the time
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  Speaker 3: the boys went missing.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so what time of the day or night was it?
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  Speaker 3: The father says it was between four thirty and five
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  Speaker 3: o'clock in here in the West Coast. That's you know,
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  Speaker 3: sun setting at that point.
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  Speaker 1: To you Mark class, you're joining us from California. Is
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  Speaker 1: that right? It's dark by four thirty.
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  Speaker 4: Yes, I know it's not dark at four thirty, but
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  Speaker 4: the sun does go down between four thirty and five.
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  Speaker 4: It gets very cold and very dark very quickly after that.
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  Speaker 1: So it's getting dark now. Jackie is waving at me
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  Speaker 1: frantically to Claire up clear, there are other children in
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  Speaker 1: the home, but mom only sent out these two to
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  Speaker 1: go play. Well, that makes perfect sense to me. It
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  Speaker 1: depends on the age of the children who get sent
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  Speaker 1: away when you're prepping Christmas. Well, guys, jump in.
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  Speaker 3: Well, guys, it's actually sorry. It's important to mention that
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  Speaker 3: the parents of her four children were not home at
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  Speaker 3: the time. The parents they were on Vaca.
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  Speaker 1: You're happy, now you're happy, she's happy. Okay, So that's
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  Speaker 1: not an issue. Guys.
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  Speaker 5: I got to jump in, jump because because I want
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  Speaker 5: to make sure what I was trying to say very clear.
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  Speaker 5: It was all too perfect. And again at four point
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  Speaker 5: thirty in the afternoon. Number one, you can wait to
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  Speaker 5: wrap gifts at eleven o'clock at night with all the babies.
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  Speaker 1: You don't know that.
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  Speaker 5: I'm sure you do not know that.
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  Speaker 1: If you say you've got a thirty minute segment where
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  Speaker 1: you can wrap Christmas gifts surreptitiously, then you jump on it.
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  Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace. In the last hours, the
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  Speaker 1: adoptive parents, Trezelle and Jacqueline West just found guilty on
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  Speaker 1: five of seven charges lodged against them, including murder. Jerrars
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  Speaker 1: found Trezel West and Jacqueline West thirty six and thirty three, respectively,
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  Speaker 1: guilty a second degree murder, involuntary manslaughter, and child cruelty
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  Speaker 1: regarding Orn, but failed to reach verdicts on second degree
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  Speaker 1: murder and conspiracy to commit murder in connection with Orson's death.
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  Speaker 1: A guilty verdict for child cruelty was handed down regarding Orson.
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  Speaker 1: Second degree murder carries a prison term of fifteen years
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  Speaker 1: to life. The couple was also convicted a falsely reporting
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  Speaker 1: an emergency. What emergency? The disappearance of the two little
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  Speaker 1: boys just got morgun Professor Forensicks jump.
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  Speaker 6: In back to what Bayon had said. He didn't He
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  Speaker 6: was very specific Nancy about these babies. He didn't say
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  Speaker 6: anything about the front yard. He said the backyard. And
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  Speaker 6: I think, from an investigative standpoint, I'm thinking about this,
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  Speaker 6: and I'm thinking, who has access to the backyard in
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  Speaker 6: this case, and what's the configuration of the backyard. You know,
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  Speaker 6: you get a lot of places.
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  Speaker 1: You're looking at the house right now, and the street
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  Speaker 1: is wide open to the front yard. I see a
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  Speaker 1: few homes that have, for instance, a wrought iron gate
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  Speaker 1: in the front yard. But you can get right in
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  Speaker 1: through the driveway. And it's one of those residential suburban
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  Speaker 1: areas where behind your backyard is another house, and behind
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  Speaker 1: that one is another house if you looked at it
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  Speaker 1: from above. I mean, there are thousands of houses that
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  Speaker 1: stretch out. So that's a good point beyond Wayne, Guys,
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  Speaker 1: we're getting into the details for a reason. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: Mark class, every detail matters. Would you agree with that?
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  Speaker 4: Of course, every detail matters.
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  Speaker 1: I mean somebody else's back yard butt's up to their backyard.
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  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. You remember when Isabelle Salise
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  Speaker 1: went missing. Yep, that was in a suburban neighborhood and
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  Speaker 1: they had the big, solid fence surrounding their backyard and
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  Speaker 1: a gate to go into it. We've had so many
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  Speaker 1: cases where people's yards were totally enclosed, but somehow the
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  Speaker 1: children went missing. Do I have to say, Elizabeth Smart,
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  Speaker 1: she had this beautiful home her family lived in. Somebody
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  Speaker 1: managed to get the children. So it happens in all
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  Speaker 1: sorts of ways. The mom and dad jump in.
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  Speaker 3: You talked about how important the details are here and
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  Speaker 3: talking about those enclosed backyards. Well, an important note here
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  Speaker 3: is that the father says the panic set in when
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  Speaker 3: we noticed that he left the gate open.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, I hear you. I did not know that. Guys,
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  Speaker 1: to take a listen to Travail West, spe take a listen.
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  Speaker 1: It was cold.
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  Speaker 7: I was gonna make a fire, said a lot of
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  Speaker 7: wood in this area right here next to our house.
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  Speaker 7: I went up the back gate. I'm throwing wood bringing
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  Speaker 7: it inside the house. My wife's inside. She was actually
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  Speaker 7: rapping gifts. So we thought it was a good idea.
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  Speaker 7: They got our youngest two go outside and play with
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  Speaker 7: chalk on the back patio. Do not let them go
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  Speaker 7: on the dirt in the backyard, and keep them close.
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  Speaker 7: So I was playing with chalk and I came to
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  Speaker 7: the house. I saw them there in one house. I
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  Speaker 7: came back out. I didn't see them.
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  Speaker 3: Now.
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  Speaker 7: I immediately went back in asked my wife, did you
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  Speaker 7: see the boys?
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  Speaker 1: She said, no, they should be outside playing with chalk.
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  Speaker 7: I said, well, I didn't see them. So I came
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  Speaker 7: back outside and I started searching my backyard.
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  Speaker 1: And I searched the whole thing you're hearing. They adopted
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  Speaker 1: dad of these two little children, ages three and four,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, how far could they get on their own?
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  Speaker 1: What did the dad do. Take a listen now to
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  Speaker 1: what Treville West dad says.
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  Speaker 7: I got in the van, I looked down the street
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  Speaker 7: most directions. It was getting dark, getting cold, and I
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  Speaker 7: got in the van and I had a bunch of corners.
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  Speaker 1: I went down the street, I turned my light on.
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  Speaker 7: I searched, I searched, I called their names, talked to
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  Speaker 7: a gentleman on the street on the other side of there.
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  Speaker 7: He didn't see any. So then I came home and
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  Speaker 7: I told my wife, you need to call the cops.
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  Speaker 7: It's getting dark and I need help. We gotta get going,
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  Speaker 7: so I called the cops. Cops came. First thing they
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  Speaker 7: did was tell us to stay in the house so
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  Speaker 7: they can get ahold of us. And they had us
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  Speaker 7: just sitting there, and we wanted to keep searching.
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  Speaker 1: You know, we've heard a lot from the dad, But
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  Speaker 1: now take a listen to mom.
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  Speaker 8: They said that. She says she was rapping gibs, and
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  Speaker 8: she let my two kids out in the backyard because
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  Speaker 8: she didn't want them to see the gibbs. But you
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  Speaker 8: didn't let the other kids out. Where were the other kids?
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  Speaker 8: My two just go back there at night. She said
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  Speaker 8: it was dark and it's cold, right now, so I
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  Speaker 8: know it's cold then, so I don't believe it.
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  Speaker 3: So why didn't she tell you this? Where were you
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  Speaker 3: when she told you this?
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  Speaker 8: I just came here forty five minutes when nobody was
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  Speaker 8: here forty five minutes to an hour, and we knocked
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  Speaker 8: him on the door, and it took them a minute
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  Speaker 8: to come, and he came out, and he wanted to
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  Speaker 8: say he's sorry.
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  Speaker 3: You know that.
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  Speaker 8: I just don't feel in my heart that it's something
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  Speaker 8: they're not, Madam. Do you have a relationship with these
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  Speaker 8: parents so we know them.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know them. They did something just in you're
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  Speaker 1: hearing from the bio mom. The bio mom now she
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  Speaker 1: doesn't have custody of her children, but now she is
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  Speaker 1: appearing casting doubt on the adoptive parents. What more do
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  Speaker 1: we know? What more do we know? Take a listen
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  Speaker 1: to David Kaplan at Fox fifty eight.
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  Speaker 9: Trezelle Jaqueline West and their six kids lived at Casselomo
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  Speaker 9: Apartments here in Bakersfield, across the street from where I'm at.
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  Speaker 9: They moved from here to California City in September. This afternoon,
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  Speaker 9: around forty people used drones, dogs trash picker ruppers and
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  Speaker 9: their eyes and feet to look for any sign of
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  Speaker 9: orn and orson West California City Police said they have
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  Speaker 9: talked to every neighbor on that street and they all
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  Speaker 9: say they never saw the boys there. That's why concerns
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  Speaker 9: community members wanted to continue the search efforts from the
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  Speaker 9: desert in California City to Bakersfield.
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  Speaker 1: Welcome back to those of you just joining us. I'm
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  Speaker 1: Nancy Grayson. This is Crime Stories. Trezelle and Jacqueline West
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  Speaker 1: just found guilty on five of seven charges lodged against them,
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  Speaker 1: including murder. Now, the jury hung eight to four for
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  Speaker 1: guilt on a conspiracy charge. They hung kids too on
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  Speaker 1: guilt for the murder charge. How did the facts unfold?
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  Speaker 1: Tell me about the search? Joining me from ABC twenty
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  Speaker 1: three is by Yon Wang. Tell me what all has
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  Speaker 1: been done to find the children?
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  Speaker 3: Oh man, Nancy, I mean, this community has really come together.
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  Speaker 3: We're talking about multiple searches, two ten thousand dollars rewards.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, these guys are stavaging the desert themselves, going,
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  Speaker 3: you know, essentially through every neighborhood in that area. Unfortunately, though,
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  Speaker 3: there's been absolutely no sign of the boys. And I
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  Speaker 3: think earlier in the show, you guys were talking about
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  Speaker 3: the significance of what a large area of this is,
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  Speaker 3: the sprawling desert that surrounds this community. Well, it's important
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  Speaker 3: to note that police themselves, none of the authorities, the FBI,
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  Speaker 3: none of them have started their search in the desert.
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  Speaker 3: And that has taught this huge question in the community.
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  Speaker 3: You know, what is it exactly that they know that
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: isn't leading them to search this scrolling desert. You would
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: think your natural instinct would be, hey, let's go see
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: if they could possibly be anywhere out there, whether they
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: wandered off, or whether their body would end up, you know,
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: ended up out there. But that's not the case, essentially,
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: the police chief of the California City Police Department today, Look,
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: our investigation hasn't led us there. Right now, our focus
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: is on the home. We have absolutely no idea how
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: these boys got out of the backyard.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends and cut twenty one
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: ABC seventeen.
• 20:40
  Speaker 10: Two parents have now been charged with the murders of
• 20:44
  Speaker 10: the case of their missing adopted sons in the Endlope Ballet.
• 20:47
  Speaker 10: In December of twenty twenty, Trizell and Jacqueline West told
• 20:50
  Speaker 10: investigators four year old Orrin and three year old Orson
• 20:54
  Speaker 10: disappeared from their backyard. After an extensive investigation, today the
• 20:59
  Speaker 10: current Cay District Attorney revealed the boys have been declared
• 21:03
  Speaker 10: dead and actually died three months before they were even
• 21:07
  Speaker 10: reported missing.
• 21:08
  Speaker 11: This is not the outcome that we and so many
• 21:12
  Speaker 11: had hoped and prayed for over the last year. We
• 21:15
  Speaker 11: now realized that the search for the boys began after
• 21:19
  Speaker 11: the real tragedy had already occurred, and there will not
• 21:21
  Speaker 11: be a resolution completely in this case until these boys
• 21:25
  Speaker 11: are brought home.
• 21:26
  Speaker 10: The parents are facing second degree murder and child abuse charges.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Byon Wang, Explain to me what we just heard, Well,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: what you just heard.
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: Was the DA basically a report of the DA announcing
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: that worsted In Or and West were believed to be deceased.
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: They are believed to be deceased three months before the
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: parents supported them missing. So they think that between September
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: one and September thirtieth, the boys were killed the parents.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: And this is a crucial time period here because around
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: September is when the parents packed up their bags and
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: moved from Bakersfield to California.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: City to you mark class why as Byan Wang is saying,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: and I agree with him. By the way, is that
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: such a critical date?
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: I mean the September date, because that was approximately the
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: time that the DA said that the children were murdered.
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: So you've got this confluence of little children not having
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: been seen by anybody at basically the same time that
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: the parents moved to another location, a sparsely populated location,
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: that three months later, all of a sudden, the children
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: disappeared from the yard, and I think the parents were
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: just basically trying to trying to justify why the children
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: were not around anymore.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Mark class before we went to air, you use the
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: words the word trans actional.
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: Explain well, listen, what we're looking at are two parents
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: who obviously are not that concerned about the children because
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: they don't join in any search efforts. They don't do
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: absolutely they do absolutely nothing but hang out at their
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: house while the children are missing. But at the same time,
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: these are parents that have fostered four different children plus
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: their two own, and that's a transactional situation. The state
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: of California pays foster parents and average one thousand dollars
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: to twenty six hundred dollars per month to help with
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: the expenses from taking care of the child. So I'm
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: suggesting that the only reason they had these kids in
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: the first place was because it puts some money in
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: their pockets once they got rich and once they've been adopted.
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: I don't know how that plays out, but I'm sure
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: there's still money involved in it, and they just wanted
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: to keep getting that money.
• 23:54
  Speaker 12: What about it, Cheryl, I think anytime you are making
• 23:57
  Speaker 12: money off of a child, there is the possibility of
• 24:01
  Speaker 12: danger coming to that child because the child is not
• 24:05
  Speaker 12: there because of love and wanting to raise that baby
• 24:09
  Speaker 12: and have that baby be your own. Even in his
• 24:12
  Speaker 12: statement to the media, he says it became ours it.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Ooh yeah, I noticed that. By on Wang, I believe
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: I hear you jumping and go ahead.
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: I mean. The big question a lot of reporters on
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: the ground over there had for the DA was, first
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: of all, how do you know the boys are dead?
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: And do you have their bodies? The DA said, we
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: don't have their bodies, but we do have direct and
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: circumstantial evidence that leads us to believe that the boys
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: are not alive.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Anymore, direct and circumstantial evidence. What could that ming?
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: By on, Well, I mean I think you kind of
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: mentioned earlier on in the show. They've done. You know,
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: they've executed forty eight search warrants, collected more than one
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: hundred and fifty items searched four different states, conducted one
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: hundred and sixteen interviews, and that was numbers that we
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: got in December. And they presented all this to a
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: grand jury who returned to True Bill and resulted in
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: an indictment. And now the parents' space two counts of
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: secondary murder, two counts of willful cruelty to a child,
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: one count of making a false report of an emergency.
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: If they're convicted of these charges, are looking at thirty
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: years to life in prison.
• 25:25
  Speaker 12: And Nancy, I think most people know you were my prosecutor,
• 25:29
  Speaker 12: But if those children had gone missing in September, you
• 25:32
  Speaker 12: would have told us, go find me Halloween pictures of them,
• 25:36
  Speaker 12: go find me Thanksgiving pictures of them, Go find me
• 25:39
  Speaker 12: a Santa Clau's picture of them. It was four days
• 25:41
  Speaker 12: before Christmas when those children were murdered. Was a string
• 25:47
  Speaker 12: of things that children would have been the center focus
• 25:50
  Speaker 12: of your family.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: They have no such pictures.
• 25:53
  Speaker 5: Nancy.
• 25:54
  Speaker 13: I watched her interview and they were asking her about
• 25:57
  Speaker 13: the current pictures for these children, and all over the
• 26:00
  Speaker 13: words talk about an old phone, and it was clear
• 26:04
  Speaker 13: that she didn't have pictures, and it was clear that
• 26:06
  Speaker 13: she wasn't prepared to even answer that type of question, although.
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: They did her there and then and then I should
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: they sorry, I should say, three or four months after
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: our first interview with them, I got a tip that
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: the parents were in Bakersfield at the juvenile courtouse. I
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: went there, saw the parents. There was no cameras involved,
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: really just wanted to have a conversation, see if we
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: get pictures. At that time, they said they still don't
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: have their electronic devices back from police. They wouldn't give
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: me their phone number. I even said, guys, look, there's
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: a lot of people who want to hear from you.
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: Can you at least issue a statement to me, nothing
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: on camera, Just tell me a statement that I could
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: get out there for you guys. And they wouldn't not
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: say thanks for searching, you know, or anything like that.
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: And they claimed that you know, they've been threatened, you know,
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: the lives of the threatened, and that they have been
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: doing their own price.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Their lives have been threatened. What Yeah, So there was.
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: No cry I mean, come on, there was a there
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: was a huge outcry after the first interview we did
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: with them. The only interview we did with.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Well their lives if they were threatened, was because they're
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: not doing anything. I mean, why would you not issue
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: a statement asking people to help find your children and
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: thanking the people that had helped look for your children.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: I don't understand that.
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: I was looking for a statement along those lines. They
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: just never got one. They wouldn't tell me a single word.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: How did they say?
• 27:39
  Speaker 8: No?
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: What did they what was their response?
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: Well, they basically just said right now, no matter how
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: we say it, whether we say thank you you know,
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: to the community, whether we say you know, please go
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: and search for the kids. Even more that they think,
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: no matter what kind of adjective now and whatever they
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: would say, that someone would find a way to use that.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: Who cares beyond who cares? I mean, come on, Kathleen
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: Murphy family lawyer, Who cares what people say about you
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: when your children's lives are on the line.
• 28:13
  Speaker 13: Oh yes, I see how parents every single day don't
• 28:16
  Speaker 13: care what people.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: Think about their children.
• 28:20
  Speaker 13: They put on these images and they don't really have
• 28:25
  Speaker 13: the truth out there. Me know, one of these parents
• 28:27
  Speaker 13: had the truth out there. They're going to put an
• 28:29
  Speaker 13: image in and that showed their sense of culpability with
• 28:33
  Speaker 13: regard to these children that are missing and Nancy. When
• 28:36
  Speaker 13: they were on video, the father and I use that
• 28:39
  Speaker 13: term very loosely, had his arm tucked under his armpits
• 28:45
  Speaker 13: for over fifteen minutes in a very defensive state. He
• 28:51
  Speaker 13: is clearly in that video hiding something.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. When I look at these
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: two little children, Orson and Oran, it's heartbreaking. Why adopt
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: the children only to murder them? Prosecutors believe the boys
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: died three months earlier, while the family was still living
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: at an apartment in Bakersville, California. We learned that the West,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: who had six children in all, were allegedly very abusive
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: to the adopted children, and back in September, Oran died.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: They then came up with a plan to kill Orson
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: and dispose of both the little boy's bodies. These facts
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: are painful to hear, but true. Guys, I want you
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: to take a listen to the current county district attorney
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: speaking in our cut twenty five this morning.
• 30:07
  Speaker 14: I'm saddened to announce that the investigation has revealed that
• 30:13
  Speaker 14: Orin and Orson West are deceased.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: The investigation has also.
• 30:19
  Speaker 14: Revealed that they died three months before their adoptive parents
• 30:27
  Speaker 14: reported them missing. However, I am pleased to announce that
• 30:34
  Speaker 14: this week the Kerrent County Grand Jury indicted Trezell and
• 30:40
  Speaker 14: Jacqueline West, the adoptive parents, for the murder of Orin
• 30:48
  Speaker 14: and Orson West.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: To Mark Class, founder of Class Kids Foundation, is exactly
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: as you said. They authorities believe the boys were murdered
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: through three months before they were ever reported missing.
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: You know these people, when you have people that will
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: make any excuse for inaction, will do absolutely everything they
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: can to ensure that they don't get involved in the
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: search or have to make a statement. You're looking at
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: somebody that's hiding something, and you're talking that in itself.
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: I mean, you guys are all the lawyers, but that
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: in itself seems like a circumstantial situation where you're going
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: to look at these people and go, what in the
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: world is wrong with these people?
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: What are they doing?
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: I think that the DA did a great job. I
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: think that I think she must have presented some amazing
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: evidence to the grand jury.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: What do you think they have Cheryl McCollum direct and
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: indirect evidence that the boys were killed three months before.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: I find it interesting that they come out and say
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: the prosecutor they were killed three months before they were
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: reported missing. What could she have?
• 31:59
  Speaker 12: I think she had a lot of I think she
• 32:00
  Speaker 12: has testimony from the older siblings how the treatment was
• 32:04
  Speaker 12: in the house. I think they have cell phone pings.
• 32:06
  Speaker 12: I think they possibly have photographs. I think they've got
• 32:09
  Speaker 12: the statements from the neighbors saying we didn't even know
• 32:11
  Speaker 12: six boys or whatever over there. We never saw any
• 32:14
  Speaker 12: boys ever.
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: They've got the evidence that's.
• 32:16
  Speaker 12: Circumstantial, but from the canines. And they also have two things.
• 32:21
  Speaker 12: A statement from the mama when she says, well, I
• 32:23
  Speaker 12: know they ain't out there walking around. And then we
• 32:26
  Speaker 12: find out that Orrin had a fractured left leg, so
• 32:30
  Speaker 12: I guess he was right.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: And what does that mean to you guys? A fractured
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: left leg? I mean to me, it says they were
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: horribly abused. I mean, beyon wang, what do we know
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: about how a little boy at this young age, three
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: to four years old has a fractured leg?
• 32:50
  Speaker 12: You know, Nana, that takes an awful lot of force
• 32:53
  Speaker 12: to break the leg of a three year old.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: It sure does. What about it beyond I.
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: Mean that was something to us and employees often they
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: wouldn't tell us how that occurred or if that occurred.
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: They would never have confirmed that with us. We tried
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: to get the information, we never got it. In these
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: two counts of willful cruelty to a child, I would
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: suspect that maybe that has something to do with it.
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: And if you read the indictment, they believed that other
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: people were involved in both the cruelty to a child
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: and the second do we murdered church. We asked if
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: anybody else was detained or arrested. They weren't able to confirm.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to understand what that means that other people
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: may have taken part in the mistreatment or even the
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: deaths of these two children. There is no telling what
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: kind of hell these two little children went through before
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: they were finally murdered. Their lives must have just been
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: pure hell.
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: And I think we just got a glimpse into that,
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: didn't we.
• 34:04
  Speaker 15: Nancy, it's Jackie. Let me jump in here and say
• 34:07
  Speaker 15: Cheryl was absolutely right. Take a listen to kg E T.
• 34:11
  Speaker 16: A two hour interview with one of the couple's other children.
• 34:15
  Speaker 16: In that interview, the child allegedly made a statement the
• 34:18
  Speaker 16: defense council says forms the crux of the prosecution's case.
• 34:23
  Speaker 15: The bombshell was revealed to police about a week after
• 34:26
  Speaker 15: Orson and Orrin West were reported missing. Another child living
• 34:30
  Speaker 15: with the West family gave a statement to police saying
• 34:33
  Speaker 15: he witnessed one of the boys die. The child said
• 34:37
  Speaker 15: the other later disappeared after hearing a loud thud. That statement,
• 34:41
  Speaker 15: along with the interviews with other children, spurred a lengthy investigation,
• 34:45
  Speaker 15: resulting in murder charges against Trazell and Jacqueline West. In
• 34:50
  Speaker 15: his opening statement, the prosecutor said the boy heard or
• 34:53
  Speaker 15: In vomit and watched as his color faded and died.
• 34:57
  Speaker 15: He said the parents never called for medical health help,
• 35:00
  Speaker 15: but discussed keeping the death hidden. The child said Orn
• 35:04
  Speaker 15: West never made it to California City and Orson was
• 35:08
  Speaker 15: only there for four days. The child said he believed
• 35:11
  Speaker 15: Orson had been taken back to his grandmother's house.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: Trizell and Jacqueline West just found guilty on five of
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: seven charges lodged against them, including murder. With the charges
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: on which they were found guilty this evil Mom and
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: dad are set for life plus behind bars. Will they
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: retry on the two dead luck charges? Probably not. Prosecutors
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: can already secure a life plus twenty prison sentence, but
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: will the judge sentence to the max? If not, a
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: retrial may be on the horizon. Sentencing set for July thirteenth.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Trizell and Jaqueline West behind bars. Finally, and hopefully for good,
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: Nancy Gray signing off goodbye friend,