Latest / The Refrigeration Mentor Podcast / Episode 189. Recruiting New Refrigeration Professionals and the Future of the Industry with Ashley Turner of Hussmann

Transcript

Episode 189. Recruiting New Refrigeration Professionals and the Future of the Industry with Ashley Turner of Hussmann · The Refrigeration Mentor Podcast

• 0:00
  Ashley: To me, that's the coolest part about this industry every day is something new. And so if you're looking for something new and fresh every day, and you get bored with the same old, same old, this industry has more opportunity than you can, you can go after a number one. And number two, we make memories happen.
• 0:01
  And that's. You know, sounds a little corny, but it's real. If you think about the best times of your life, there's something going on there with food and beverage and friends and family, and, um, we kind of make all that stuff happen just because of all the guys and girls in the industry.
• 0:02
  Trevor: Welcome to the refrigeration mentor podcast.
• 0:03
  I'm your host, Trevor Matthews. As a former technician turned
• 0:04
  Ashley: entrepreneur, my goal is to really help train you, educate you, and mentor you in the commercial refrigeration industry each week. I'm going to have top guests from technicians. To manufacturers, to experts
• 0:05
  Trevor: around the world to really help us grow and learn together by sharing their knowledge in commercial refrigeration, commercial HVAC.
• 0:06
  And not only on the technical side, but really the professional and the personal development side as well. I'm really
• 0:07
  Ashley: excited that you're here. Now
• 0:08
  Trevor: let's get a conversation going. Hey, I want to take a minute to talk about the upcoming refrigeration mentor learning programs. Every couple of months we continue to roll out live instructor led sessions by subject matter experts on compressors, supermarket refrigeration, and CO2 refrigeration.
• 0:09
  We're really here to help you grow. Get to that next level. Head to the Refrigeration Mentor webpage, refrigerationmentor. com. Check out the events page. There's a compressor masterclass, there's a supermarket refrigeration program, and there's a CO2 program. There's also free trainings, free workshops.
• 0:10
  Really, check them out. See if this interests you. Read a little bit about it because we're really here to help you. These live sessions are for you to come and ask questions, to learn a little bit, to grow. We've trained thousands of technicians from technicians from three to four to five years in the industry all the way up from 20 to 30 years in the industry.
• 0:11
  Either get them to the next level or get them back on track. Build that confidence, that knowledge and that skillset. We'd love to see you there. We'd love to have you now. Let's get a conversation going. Welcome to the refrigeration mentor podcast, as always bringing some of the top guests from around the world.
• 0:12
  And I have a friend of mine who we actually met on social media on LinkedIn. We've been chatting for a few months, but. Refrigeration, you know, is crazy and we're always busy. So we finally got the time to sit down and have a chat. So I'm chatting today with Ashley Turner, the VP of branch operations, and he's been in the industry for decades.
• 0:13
  Uh, and he's a huge advocate for training and develop and helping the upcoming technicians in his organization, get to that next level with his leaders. And I thought it would be awesome to have. Ashley on here to really chat about the refrigeration industry, what he's been seeing in these large organization and how, what they're doing to really help boost and motivate their technicians to get to their next level, to grow their career because refrigeration is one of the best careers out there.
• 0:14
  It's a challenging career, but it's one of the best ones out there. Uh, Ashley, welcome to the refrigeration mentor podcast. How are you doing?
• 0:15
  Ashley: Good morning. Glad to be here. Appreciate you guys having, having me. Uh,
• 0:16
  Trevor: well, we, we appreciate having you, especially with all the knowledge, working with such a large organization.
• 0:17
  So actually you've been with Hussman for, for decades now, I guess it was, uh, IR, uh, Interscroll ran before. I think that's who you work with. And then the transition over to Hussman, let's talk a little bit about the beginning and how you worked your way all the way up to really VP of brands operation for one of the largest.
• 0:18
  refrigeration organization in North America, maybe even in the world. Uh, you guys are so big. Yeah,
• 0:19
  Ashley: it's, it's been a wild ride. Um, but a fun one, you know, I, I started out, I grew up in South Georgia, started out on the farm and, uh, like a lot of kids do. And, um, you learn pretty quickly, you either love farming or you love to not farm.
• 0:20
  And, uh, so I love not to farm and, and went down a little different path than my dad did. But my first job. Which is funny now when I look back at it, my first job off the farm was actually in a supermarket as I was helping the meat cutters and the bag boys and, you know, stocking and doing all the things that that supermarkets in our industry do.
• 0:21
  But I started way, way, way back when as an 18 year old kid trying to get off the farm. Ended up going to engineering school and, um, started and spent a couple, I don't know, about five or six years with a couple of different industrial companies and, uh, found Hussman around the 2000 timeframe, 2001. And that was a pretty dynamic time.
• 0:22
  As you, as you said, we were part of Ingersoll Rand at the time. Um, Ingersoll Rand had invested in, in a lot of the, the branch network that we have today. So I started out in Swanee actually as a factory manager there. Supervising our rack assembly line, our protocol assembly line, our condensing unit assembly lines.
• 0:23
  And, um, we quickly realized as a business, we needed some help with all of the acquisitions that happened on the branch operation side. So I jumped over, had an opportunity to get into the service business. That was kind of where my, my heart was anyway. Um, just, You know, being a facility engineer with a couple other companies, I enjoyed having the guys under my, my team.
• 0:24
  And so anyway, jumped over to different roles, service manager, install manager, branch manager, kind of working up through the. The typical traditional, um, branch service world and, um. You know, I've had a had a good almost 23 years in the business. And as you said, the industry is a fantastic opportunity for anyone looking for a challenging but rewarding career.
• 0:25
  I think we just we were with one of our gentlemen who celebrated 45 years last last week in Dallas. Actually at his retirement. And we had about 30 folks there that had worked with him through his career and his family was, it was just a fantastic time. Um, and, um, you know, so looking back, it's been a, been a long journey, but it's been a fun one.
• 0:26
  And it
• 0:27
  Trevor: is, and it's still fun. The big thing is, is that it continues to evolve. It continues to change. Back in 2001, when you started, I started around 2004, a few years later in the industry, it's totally different now as we continue to evolve. Regulations keep changing, uh, demands of refrigeration continue to grow.
• 0:28
  We have even internal of our industry, like people like, well, the HVAC. People like companies need the HVAC guys and then the industrial guys, you know what I mean? So there's just so many dynamics. So we're for me. I'm biased. I'm more in a commercial supermarket area You know, i'm trying to get more technicians to come into the refrigeration in our industry in general but how has it Shifted.
• 0:29
  So back in 2001, that's when the branches started, like the, actually the technician teams have, uh, developed. Was it around that time and then continued to grow because how many technicians back in the early two thousands was there compared to there is today in your organization? Yeah, so we've,
• 0:30
  Ashley: um, I guess if you go all the way back to the original acquisition of, I think it was National Refrigerated Services is the was the big acquisition and it had, um, I don't know, about 6 or 8 different brands that Ingersoll, uh, ran, bought at the time and kind of put them all together.
• 0:31
  But Hussman's had, you know, they've had branches. Um, within their sales organization that would do service and install for almost the same amount of time that has been in business, you know, for that 100 years or so, but they were just in pockets, you know, is where a salesperson had a strong desire to handle the turnkey with a customer.
• 0:32
  But I think if you if you go all the way back to, um. When we divested from Ingersoll Rand, you know, we were probably around a 700 ish, some odd technicians back in, you know, call it 15 years ago. Um, now we're roughly 1300. Um, so we've continued to grow the business and both organically and through a few acquisitions here and there, and consistently, you know, looking for, for talent, uh, up and down our talent range, you know, we, you got to bring in new guys.
• 0:33
  Um, that are new to the industry, but you've got to have the veterans that can lead the teams and handle the more complicated scenarios too. So, um, you know, I think the other interesting part, just to talk about one of your comments, you know, the, there's been this, I guess, in the early 2000s, um, maybe even late 90s.
• 0:34
  There was all this cyclicality in the industry based on installation. And, and yes, installation side of our business, the construction side and remodel side has some, some cyclicality, but the reality is there's so many service oriented projects. That backfill that, that the industry demand is way over the capacity right now.
• 0:35
  And that's everyone's challenge across the industry is finding, finding the right talent to serve the customer's needs. And then at the same time, as you noted, it's segmented. You've got You know, all the regulatory pressures, you've got the controls, which continue to advance and grow and get a little more sophisticated and a little more complicated.
• 0:36
  Um, so some of that overlaps with building automation and the HVAC side, depending on how the engine, you know, the engineer, the buildings. But the core of refrigeration in the supermarket core is still a huge part of our, our, our, uh, business and a huge part of society. And if you think about COVID, you know, COVID, we were an essential business.
• 0:37
  We didn't slow down, which was. You know, good for our folks. Um, in some places we got busier during COVID. Um, and we had to learn how to manage that risk and, you know, all the safety challenges that came along with that. But, um, you know, that to me, I remind people about that time because for our folks, that was huge.
• 0:38
  Where other industries, even the HVAC industries, you know, when the office buildings shut down, the preventive maintenance stopped. And so, um, our business, we kept right on going with the commercial refrigeration piece through, through COVID, which was, um, you know, a couple of years we had to battle through that.
• 0:39
  So I'm proud of what our team did during that time and, you know, to keep the food and, um, life science. Uh, at the right critical temperatures. It was, it was a big time for us. Yeah,
• 0:40
  Trevor: and that that's huge about the refrigeration. This is when I talk to students and apprentices and even people in the industry because Even if you're in it and you're new to refrigeration, you don't understand the vastness of it And it only it took me a long time to understand that years and years, you know, even now i'm decades in is now I'm, just really comprehend how important refrigeration is because Um We're involved in everything cell phones servers.
• 0:41
  We're talking today and I keep reminding people blood banks, you know Surgeons on a table if it wasn't for some sort of refrigeration technician hvac technician There would be a lot of we wouldn't be advancing the world as fast as we are if it wasn't for refrigeration Technicians and people like your teams.
• 0:42
  And I want to, I always try to remind people that we are essential for the planet to keep moving and people don't know that even people in our industry don't really, they go out and do their job, but they don't comprehend. Cause I didn't, you know, I never really sat down and thought about how we're saving people's lives.
• 0:43
  We have quality food. People have food at the table that you would never have a hundred years ago. You know, you just wouldn't make it across the planet where we can enjoy the luxuries today where we couldn't before. What are some of the things that you're really proud about of your team? Cause you've been, you've been doing 2001, you know, in the last 15 years, you went from 700 technicians upwards to, you know, 13, 1400 technicians on your team.
• 0:44
  You grew a lot in a little time, a little time, like. 15 years is not a long time. You grew expansively, you got more branches. What are some of the things you're proud of, of your leadership team that maybe move this down to some of your technicians and some of those field people? Because I know a lot of them would have moved up.
• 0:45
  You know what I mean? Over the last 15 years, some of those technicians would have moved into service, maybe project managers in the sales, what are some of the things you're proud of the team over the last 15
• 0:46
  Ashley: years? Yeah, I think fundamentally, and you said it best, our business leaders are from the business.
• 0:47
  Which is fantastic. Sometimes we have to remind them that they were once an apprentice too, you know, but, um, I think that appreciation for what our teams have done, um, in just handling the complexity of the industry, the complexity through COVID, um, you know, taking care of customers, taking care of employees, and it doesn't matter whether I'm talking about Michigan or, or, or Salem, New Hampshire group or, uh, or Chicago or Atlanta, uh, New Orleans.
• 0:48
  Texas, the Southwest through Arizona and California and Denver. I mean, all of our teams all the way through the Heartland. Um, and then we've got a team that actually takes care of our, our government commissaries and support some men and women of our, our military. It's called Nelson refrigeration.
• 0:49
  They're a wholly owned, uh, part of Hussman. And we, we service about 60 bases across the world and, and keep our men and women of military. I think the diversity and managing the diversity of what we call our business through that time and enabling growth, enabling opportunity. And, you know, you think about taking an apprentice, giving them, getting them through their apprenticeship program, graduating them as a journeyman.
• 0:50
  And the next thing, you know, now we're starting to see those guys running service departments and, you know, And in running remote areas. And I remember back, you know, some of my lead techs, um, in the Carolinas, you know, one of them now is managing one of our national accounts. Um, one of them is now running, you know, a 20 million business.
• 0:51
  I mean, those types of things. Um, just being able to lead through the complexity, um, you know, look at the world as an opportunity and take on those challenges that I'm just proud of the organization that has been able to do that, um, consistently across not just, um, you know, our business, but the Hussman business.
• 0:52
  And, and look, our, our competitors are very strong too. And I think that's a testimony to all of us big guys in the industry is that we're figuring out how to do it. Right. We haven't solved all of our talent management challenges. Because the world continues to shift and we have to shift with it. But we've been able to grow and support the industry at a very critical time.
• 0:53
  And as now we look forward to the next phase of regulatory compliance and what that looks like, it's going to bring additional challenges that we don't even know what they are yet. You know, I think we're well positioned across the industry. We just got to continue to bring new talent in and that's the reality.
• 0:54
  Yeah. And
• 0:55
  Trevor: that's the thing is, is bringing new talent in caring for the people that are there and uplifting the, the other people who want to start to continue on their journey in refrigeration. My goal is always to try to keep people inside our business. Cause we see a lot that do leave because of the challenges inside the organ.
• 0:56
  Well, not the organization, but inside. Refrigeration industry in general. Do you want to talk about some of the challenges you've seen over the years where we, or you may have lost some good talent to maybe other industries and maybe some things that other organizations, your, your team can maybe do to maybe entice them to stay in the refrigeration industry?
• 0:57
  Ashley: Yeah, I, I, I think the, I remember 15, 18 years ago, one of the, I was doing a ride along with one of our guys in the Southeast and, and I said, what, what What is, what is a supermarket refrigeration tech? What is that? What is that? And he looked at me and he said, we're the best of everything. And I took that and I was like, okay, this is this guy serious or is, you know?
• 0:58
  And he said, no, no, no. He goes, he goes, I take that back. He goes, we're, we're the best at refrigeration, but we're good at HVAC. And we're good at electrical and we're good at controls. Cause we have to be, and we walk through his stores that day and. He was showing me the breadth of everything from he may be wire, you know, rewiring a, a little outlet, which is an electrical, technically an electrician's problem.
• 0:59
  The next minute he's working on a case drain, which is a plumber's, technically a job. Um, and then he's working on a, a blower motor on a, on the rooftop unit. And then he's, you know, working on a rack, which is, you think about that variety and then you compound that with. The technology, uh, and the differences that customers have within their own technology and their own engineering and their specifications.
• 1:00
  It literally store to store is a brand new ballgame every time our guys and girls get out of the truck. And so I think that complexity is intimidating a little out of the gate. And I've seen us lose some talent because of, um, that complexity and that, you know, that, that fear to fail. Um, and so, you know, we, we've got to be comfortable in the industry that failure is part of what we do, but it's an opportunity to learn and get better.
• 1:01
  Um, you know, we talk about it on the safety side of our business. And all my competitors, we all have the same challenges are our guys and girls, they drive and they climb. And those are the 2 riskiest things are going to do every day and they do it every day. So, we really have to take a different approach in terms of, you know, the education as an example, we're seeing a lot of.
• 1:02
  The youth of America not have driver's license until they're like 22, 23 years old, which for me, that's a totally different game. I couldn't wait. I skipped school when I turned 16 to get my driver's license, you know, but, but that's, that's just a change in. In in, uh, you know, our social demographics. Um, a lot of kids just aren't driving.
• 1:03
  Um, like they used to now. Um, so we've got to we've got to get innovative and we've we've shifted some of our programs to do more education and more driving opportunities because, as we know, the commercial vans and trucks, they don't drive like, like race cars. So, um, I think to stay in the talent game, we've got to continue to embrace.
• 1:04
  Failure and enable growth with failure. Number one, we can't, you know, we can't just drop the gavel and say, you know, you made a mistake. That's a bad thing. It's an opportunity to grow. Number one, number two, we've got to continue to recognize those little social, social trends that are happening, like the driver's license and get innovative to enable them to get comfortable.
• 1:05
  I mean, there's nothing worse. I mean for those that have rented, you know, large rental trucks to move, 'cause I've done that several times over my career. Those are intimidating. The first time you drive 'em, even though you've been driving through, it's a pressure cooker and you got, you know, you gotta figure out how to make a turn and, you know, not block your turn.
• 1:06
  All those little things, imagine. A 22 year old apprentice first driving a van or a truck that has the same blind spot problems. So we just got to continue to get innovative and recognize those trends. And it took us a little while with our, our programs to find that we, the first few candidates that we had come in who didn't have driver's license, we were like, what do you, what do you mean you don't have a driver's license?
• 1:07
  You know, like it was, it was foreign to us, but. You know, recognizing that and being able to provide them the opportunity and, you know, really spending time with the vocational schools, um, spending time with, with our partners out there that says, look, as you approach the high schools, you gotta tell them if you're interested in HVAC refrigeration, you gotta get a driver's license now.
• 1:08
  So you got some experience on your record. Um, no matter whether you go, you know, to work on chillers or you work on, you know, I want them in our business, obviously, but no matter what they do in the HVCR space, they're going to have to have a driver's license, and it's going to have to have a pretty clean record.
• 1:09
  So, you know, we're working with our partners to get that message out to the high schools that they support and they recruit from, but it's, it's definitely a dynamic time in the industry. And, you know, little things like that. I laugh about the driving license because it's. It's just so, uh, such a different, you know, time from when, when I grew up when I was 16, I couldn't wait to have a driver's license.
• 1:10
  So, and that,
• 1:11
  Trevor: that can change too. You might not like need a driver's license and refrigeration in 10 years or 15 years, you know, with the way technology is going, there might be. Somebody who like automation, you know what I mean? Electric vehicles, driving the technicians to the site, especially in cities, man.
• 1:12
  I know so many technicians would love to be able to, someone just drop them off. The tools they need, if they need another tool, they just come and the tool gets dropped off. You know what I mean? And that may be the go, the go. So I liked the way that you brought that up. Cause that's something that I would not even have thought about.
• 1:13
  You know what I mean? Like, and this is where
• 1:14
  Ashley: it's, it's a wild one, but we've, I mean, it's a real thing for us. So. You know, and then the other part of it is between where augmented reality and some of the technologies go in, right, there's going to be opportunity for those who don't want to ever drive to maybe be the eyes and ears of guys and girls who are, you know, on a hotline or can pull up the Google glasses type of thing.
• 1:15
  And so that technology I think is finally coming around the corner. Um, and it's probably going to present some real opportunity for us in the next, you know, five to 10 years because. Um, things are just, you know, changing at light speed right now. So I think, you know, finding that balance for us is going to be good because, you know, we need, we need, there's plenty of the traditional, um, supermarket refrigeration technician needs out there, but we're going to have to supplement that with, you know, everything from additional mentors, additional trainers.
• 1:16
  Um, additional, you know, but we'll call it, uh, after our support and technical hotlines. So all those are going to create different opportunities and career opportunities that we don't even, we can't even see quite yet. You know, we know, we know we're headed that way, but what those look like, you know, 5, 10 years from now, it's going to be different than today.
• 1:17
  And I think that's, to me, that's the coolest part about this industry is every day is different. So there's no lack of variety. And every day is something new. And so if you're looking for something new and fresh every day, and you get bored with, you know, what the same old, same old, this industry has more opportunity than you can, you can go after.
• 1:18
  And that to me is, um, it's why I've stayed in the service side of our business, uh, number one and number two, you know, what we do matters. And we said it earlier, but you think about the life sciences. I was with a client a few weeks ago and they were telling me about how long it takes them to replace. Um, plasma as an example, you know, blood is has a fairly short.
• 1:19
  Replacement cycle, but plasma, if they lose a cooler plasma, it could take them upwards of a year to a year and a half to replenish that plasma bank just because of the cycle time involved. And then, when you think about some of the research centers that we all support in the industry, you know, you've got someone's life work who's been working on a cancer treatment or a cancer cure their life's work.
• 1:20
  Literally, they could have 50 years of work or even 100 years of work. In their temperature controlled space. I mean, when you think about the magnitude that our guys and girls across the industry get into and really, you know, understanding that, um, that's huge. And I always, I always tell our apprentices and the people knew the business.
• 1:21
  You think about the best times you've ever had in your life, there was friends and friends, family around, and there was probably food and beverage. And that to me, we're in, we're engaged in that, right? Whether it was climate control or whether it was temperature control for life science or, or food and beverage, we make memories happen.
• 1:22
  And that's, you know, sounds a little corny, but it's real. If you think about the best times of your life. There's, there's something going on there with food and beverage and, and friends and family, and, um, we kind of make all that stuff happen just because of all the guys and girls in the industry. And
• 1:23
  Trevor: I totally agree with that.
• 1:24
  And this is what I try to talk with people outside our industry. And I had this conversation with so many people. We're great at talking internally about refrigeration because it's awesome. We love it. It's how do we get more people from the outside to really understand the value that we bring and get them excited about it as a lot of people inside the industry are, um, the more people I talk to, especially as I've been in the industry and made refrigeration their career, they, they continue to enjoy the evolution of it and how the satisfaction of helping others.
• 1:25
  Around the world, you know, it doesn't matter if I talk to someone in australia or the uk or south africa that are in refrigeration They do it because it gives them a satisfaction of helping others And that's what we do on a daily basis helping others. Some days are real hard and you don't don't like your day But that's any job, you know what I mean?
• 1:26
  It doesn't matter. It's refrigeration could be any job um, so I know you you guys go around and you talk to different schools and Uh, tech schools and colleges, you know, you have peers and mentors with inside your organization, try to influence people to get into the refrigeration and HVAC industry, get into the Hussman service career.
• 1:27
  What other things do you do to try to get more people into the industry? Are there, do you guys do like social media campaigns? Do you guys do job fairs? Do you do, what, what do you do to try to get these new technicians to come and take a look at refrigeration? Yeah,
• 1:28
  Ashley: I really think it's, uh, if I think about that question, I don't think there's anything we haven't done, you know, in terms of of the variety of Of things I think social media is something we're still, um, if I look at what our plans are for this coming year, we still got some, some new stuff coming from from our social media side.
• 1:29
  We're going to put, uh. You know, husband's been doing a road show for the last, I don't know, probably 5 years and it really originated from. COVID because we couldn't go out and see customers and so we put a lot of our products in this innovative trailer and we went around the country and saw him in a safe environment with.
• 1:30
  With everything and we've continued that through the last 5 years. So, this year's. Roadshow tour is going to have a little more focus on our side of the business as, as, you know, trying to generate some activity and some interest in our trade. Um, we've partnered with all of our partners across the country, whether it's our.
• 1:31
  Our primary partner, Lincoln tech, we've got subsidiary or secondary partners that we're partnering with too. And I think the good news is. The vocational, um, school side of the industry is just now getting back on their feet and they're starting to see growth. They're starting to see growth in enrollment.
• 1:32
  They're starting to expand campuses. There's been five or six of those that have happened this past year that I'm aware of in some of our primary markets. And so that's really, that's really good for us. I think we're starting to turn the tide. We're. Still playing from behind, as everybody knows, in terms of having enough talent in the industry.
• 1:33
  But I'm excited about what they're doing in terms of their growth and adding campuses and adding programs. But I think the next level that we've struggled at is the high school side. And we're leaning on our vocational guys to help us there, but I think there's more we can do as an industry at the high school level.
• 1:34
  Um, you know, the skills USA, we've we've done some investment in that over the past, and we've got a it's probably time to resurface that effort. Um, but there's. There's been a lot of variety. We're we've tried to tried a lot of different things. Um, but I think the more we all, um, you know, continue to stay united, it's good to see the trade, the actual trade focused, uh, conferences get back on their feet, which has been good too.
• 1:35
  Um, so I think it's going to take everything. I really do. I don't think there's going to be a silver bullet.
• 1:36
  Trevor: Yeah. I've been doing a lot of training programs for supermarket technicians, CO2, uh, advanced service courses. And I've been noticing. Each course now I get more and more women coming into my courses to learn.
• 1:37
  What is the percentage, and I know I've talked to many people about this, the percentage is still way lower than we'd like to see. What are you guys doing to try to entice more women to get into the HVC and refrigeration industry?
• 1:38
  Ashley: Yeah, I think I think our percentage is single digits on our side of the business.
• 1:39
  Now, it used to be zero for about a decade. So I'm proud we've got metrics there. I think the other part is You know, when you look across our leadership team, whether it's our engineering leadership team, manufacturing, our branch operations, we're starting to see more women in our industry, too. And I think that's being fed from the stem science from the high schools all the way through, um, you know, the universities and even the vocational side.
• 1:40
  So the cool part about it is, um, statistically, we've. We've noticed that the ladies hold their own, especially when you look at the apprenticeship side, the key is making sure we find the right mentor for them that has, you know, I mean, look, there's a, there's a traditional bravado that's in this industry that we all got to work on making sure allows, uh, for, for diversity and inclusion, you know, store management that we deal with.
• 1:41
  They are ahead of us in terms of that diversity and inclusion in terms of ladies leading stores and being store managers. So they're a little bit ahead of us, and I think they're going to pull us that way and help support us. But for us, it starts with our Tech X program, starts with our vocational partners.
• 1:42
  And then also looking across our business, I think we've made some strides in our leadership. We haven't made quite the progress we need to on the, on the field technician side, but we do have, I forget the count right off hand, but we were at least single digits. So I'm happy with that. And we're not talking about, you know, our first anymore.
• 1:43
  Um, you know, Tech X about four or five years ago did bring our first graduate through the program. So we're not talking about first anymore. So I think that's, that's a step in the right direction. But we got a long way to go as an industry, because we're going to need that, that resource base, right? I mean, if you think of all the, the ladies going into engineering.
• 1:44
  Or project management, we want them to come to our side of the trade versus a construction trade or, or, you know, the oil and gas industry or wherever they end up going down that path. So, we've got to really get out in front and I know we've, we've done a pretty nice job with our interns programs and. Um, some of our sales leadership programs as well.
• 1:45
  So got a long way to go, but it's, it's very similar to the talent management side of our technician in that it's going to take about 10 or 15 different things to start to move the mass. And then, as I said, I think the customers, you know, a little, little ahead of us, so they're going to create some pool and some opportunity to.
• 1:46
  No, and I think
• 1:47
  Trevor: that is, it's a, an industry effort too. It's not only organization, it's an industry ever. And it's, uh, like you said, diversity and inclusion is very important because they're, they come, some of them come to my program and they're crushing it. Like they're,
• 1:48
  Ashley: we found right out of the gates. So a lot of our apprentices will move from their home to where we have an opening or move from their home campus and then go to where we have an opening.
• 1:49
  And we found consistently that the ladies who come into the program, man, when you talk about relocation and housing and having all their ducks in a row, like, they're a little head of some of their male counterparts at the same age demographics. Cause like you said, they're, they're a little more mature and they're, they've had to be a little tough to get to where, where they're at, which is not necessarily fair from an industry standpoint.
• 1:50
  Um, but, but they've, you know, they've demonstrated that they've got the maturity to last in this business. Um, it's just about finding the right mentor and the right scenario and the right customer base that will support them Yeah,
• 1:51
  Trevor: no, exactly. So i've been working and talking with uh, donald elliott, uh last little bit He's been talking about some of the programs that he has built and that really your apprenticeship program that you have Let's talk about that a little bit Because I think this is really important to understand for any of the you know Technicians that there are new people wanting to get into the industry.
• 1:52
  How has that evolved? Because I remember it was a 2017, 2016 and start. I think it was, I can't remember how long ago, maybe it was 2018. Cause I remember I was at Copeland at a time and I heard the partnership start. And I know I've only really started. Getting involved with Donald over the last six months or last year, we've really been in some good conversations.
• 1:53
  Uh, and he's a huge part of it. He's such a, he's such an awesome guy who really cares about helping others. Um, how has that partnership had been and how has that evolved for your company, your organization?
• 1:54
  Ashley: Yeah, it's, it's been a really good program. I think one thing we've learned over the journey, it's we're still in our journey.
• 1:55
  We're not. We're not perfect. Um, but you know what we've seen in it is a we're attracting new talent to the business. So that was a huge check mark, a huge need, you know, as we, as you create a program and solve a couple needs, you create other problems as we've, as we've learned, right? Like how to hire 15 people in one day type stuff, right?
• 1:56
  It's like, we didn't even think of that, but so we've had to pivot and make some changes. Um, one other example of how we've evolved in that program is now we have an R290. Certification curriculum as our two nineties kind of came in and become the standard of self contained. We had to go create the curriculum, change the curriculum, create the space.
• 1:57
  In our program to make sure we get, um, our apprentices and tech X graduates familiar with the technology, you know, go through the safety, which is huge. Um, and a little bit of a different game for, for some guys. Um, but that's 1 example, you know, there are 290, we've brought competitive equipment into the lab space there in Grand Prairie.
• 1:58
  We've changed our, I mentioned it earlier, we change our driver requirements to qualify for the class. Um, so we're, we're doing, uh, we're now in our 3rd contract there. Um, and so we're excited about where the program is going to go. It's, it's just about, you know, we, we talk probably 2 times a year of what's working.
• 1:59
  What's not working, um, and at a program level and really kind of look at the metrics. Look at. Everything from, you know, what's the experience what's the experience of the graduates? What's the experience of the branches, the receiving. You know, branches that are taking on these, these apprentices and we do a pretty thorough list of what's working, not working, start making tweaks, and then we'll do it again in about six more months.
• 2:00
  But the program's been fantastic. I think it's, um, like any program, it's got its blind spots that you work to improve. You know, we're not taking guys out of vocational school and making them journeymen. We're not. We're just starting them down their apprenticeship journey, and that's really important for us to remind everybody, because, you know, we get a new manager or somebody gets promoted into a new service manager role, and they think they're going to get, you know, somebody that's a journeyman.
• 2:01
  No, no, no, you're getting an apprentice. You still have to walk them through the rest of their apprenticeship, um, and really engage, but what we try to do with tech X is, is accelerate that. Um, because what we found on the vocational side, you've probably even seen it, like most vocational schools, they teach everything from residential heat pumps to industrial, right.
• 2:02
  And the commercial refrigeration is right about this much of the curriculum. Some have more curriculum and we've helped bolster that through the industry, but. Now we take them for eight weeks and we really focus them on what, what we do in our space. And they have some side projects with, you know, we'll make them do, do some piping and some convincing unit replacements.
• 2:03
  And it was, it was funny. You'll love this story. So we just graduated our, our last class last week in Dallas. And, um, I asked, uh, one of our guys who was helping them in the project, one of our husband techs, who was helping them, um, I said, How did it go? And he said, Well, I'll put it like this. Um, the first time we had him run a four ft section of pipe It took two guys, four hours, and I had three leaks, he said, the second time we did it with the same guys.
• 2:04
  It was what I would have expected. He goes, but the 1st, 1 was not too good. So, but, you know, let them find that leak, let them know how. You know, how big that would have been if it wasn't in a lab setting. Right. Um, so it's, uh, we had some fun with that with the guys that were on that little project, but. Um, because we asked him, you know, what did you learn the second time?
• 2:05
  And they're like, well, we learned what not to do the first time. Um, so I think it's that, you know, and, and the cool part is we do see a lot of the, the diversity and inclusion coming from that program. So I think the future is going to be bright for it. And I know all of us in the industry have our, our similar programs and, and, you know, my advice to all of, all of my competitors and partners out there in the industry is we got to stay after it.
• 2:06
  You know, let's continue to invest. Let's continue to do the right thing on the talent management side, because it's going to take all of us to get us all where we want to go. I know, yeah, we compete day to day and stuff like that, but the reality is we're all facing the same challenges. And so, you know, the more we, uh, continue to collaborate on the educational side and the talent management side, when we're together at conferences and stuff like that, I think it's fantastic.
• 2:07
  Um, but you know, we, we got a long road to go and we've got to become the, the employee's choice. Because, you know, there are controls guys and, you know, guys and supply guys and HVAC only guys and chiller guys are all wanting that same talent pool. You know, they're talking to the same schools and people we are.
• 2:08
  So. We got to stay after it and continue to, to advance and, um, you know, bring some, bring some fun stuff to the business like technology, which I know we're all working on too.
• 2:09
  Trevor: Yeah. And that's it. It's all about that evolution, you know, of this, these programs, a lot of people and I've seen it, oh, well, I, I want more out of this technician out of this eight week program or this four year apprenticeship program, they're just not where they're at, but that always comes back to is what, Opportunities that you've given them in that four years of that apprenticeship program even here again We got great system all depends on the school You have all depends on the teacher you have all depends on the contractor or those mentors at that company as well Because you'll see two technicians come out of the same program at the same company and one is way ahead of the other Some are that other person may be a bit motivated, but sometimes it's just the opportunity you give that one person Maybe you're not giving them the right opportunity.
• 2:10
  So you got to
• 2:11
  Ashley: recognize. I think our motto is to, you know, we, we, we're not a hundred percent in graduates of this program, still with Hussman. And I can live with that. I don't lose sleep at that because we, we either trained them on what they didn't want to do. That's okay. If they want to go residential or something else, at least we brought them into the trade, right.
• 2:12
  And supported their journey. But at the end of the day, it is about the opportunity and it's about finding the right folks that, that look at this business as an opportunity. And I told the team last week is part of their graduate ceremony. I said, it's one of the guys said, Hey, where do you think I can be in five years?
• 2:13
  And I said, well, here's, I don't know where you're going to be in five years, but what I can tell you is wherever you want to be, this industry can support it, engineering controls, all the stuff we talked about kicking off the podcast. But I said, what I can tell you is if you're not great right now, this next year, if you're not a great apprentice.
• 2:14
  You will not be great five years from that. So it's okay to have a dream and aspiration of where you want to be. I'd love having goals for five years out, but you got to be great today. And so, you know, part of the challenges, social media and phones, that's a, that's a big challenge with the next generation in this trade is keeping them off of social media long enough to learn the topic at hand, whether you're changing a compressor, whether you're changing a valve, whether you're, you know, working on a superheat, whatever it is.
• 2:15
  Um, so we've got to continue to, I think, engage and find that balance of technology because I think that's going to help us, but we still got to make sure they understand the expectation of you've got to be great with thermodynamics. You've got to love. The pressure temperature balance because that that phone is not going to help you when it when when you're in the middle of the night trying to fix that problem.
• 2:16
  But, um, you know, they got to be great. That's my advice to anybody. They got to be great today and they'll be absolutely great. 5 years from now. But the fundamentals of refrigeration haven't changed technically speaking in over hundreds of years. It's that pressure temperature. Um, that's not going to, it's not going anywhere.
• 2:17
  No matter what a valve does or a control scheme does. That pressure temperature is going to be there and um, getting them comfortable with that is, you know, is fundamental.
• 2:18
  Trevor: And I like what you said there is that, um, you train them to get them better to advance their career, but you don't sleep and lose sleep if they go to your competitor.
• 2:19
  And the funny thing is, is I talked to all your competitors and all the leaders for those organizations and they say the same thing. I'd rather train them to be a good technician and leave you to go to another organization than not train them at all. And all good, Organization and good leaders like that.
• 2:20
  You can see the talent pool continue to grow people love those companies The culture gets better as they continue to invest in their technicians in the people Not only technicians the sales and the project managers installers everyone So I really like that because this is how we make the the industry better because we are a small industry There are so many other industry can just eat us up.
• 2:21
  And I think there's globally, maybe 15 million people in our industry of 8 billion people. So we got an opportunity to work together. Yes, you're caught. You got a lot of competition out there because this is it. But every time I talk to a leader, even at your competitors, or they say the same thing, we're trying to do the.
• 2:22
  To reach the same goals, help in humanity, helping our team, building a culture and, you know, having a good career and a good life. Cause that's what refrigeration can do. Once again, we said earlier, it's challenging. There's going to be hard days when you have to get up at two o'clock in the morning, go do a service call, but it's not always like that.
• 2:23
  And I see this on social media sometimes. And I've even talked to people. I was in an event maybe a month ago, Ashley. And I talked to, have you ever thought about getting into the supermarket industry? They're like no no, uh, it's 80 hours a week Burnout, you know what I mean? I'll be done in six months. I'm like, have you ever worked in supermarket industry before?
• 2:24
  No, do you any of your friends work in supermarket industry? No, so how do you know it's 70 hour a week every week? It's uh working all nights all the time and you're getting burned out. It's not the case It's just reading social media stuff because there's, it does happen. Don't get me wrong. It does happen because there are some managers or bosses or short thing that are, they're not, they probably shouldn't be in the industry and they're pushing their workers too hard.
• 2:25
  Uh, and they don't recognize that they're guys are getting burned out and that's why they leave the company. But this person that works in the AJAX industry, this is his thoughts right off the bat. I will not go into the supermarket industry because I'm going to be always working 80 hours. I'm going to be on call every week and I'm going to be working nights all the time.
• 2:26
  Which is not
• 2:27
  Ashley: true. And I, and I, and I think that's, you're spot on. I think the, the other part of it too is, You know, some of this new technology comes on board and we're able to use more predictive analytics and some, you know, some predictive analytics and those types of types of things. I mean, we've, I'm not going to tout any specific product, but we've, we've got guys who've told me, look, I'll go in on Wednesday if I'm on call on the weekend and I'm, I'm running my stores through our program and we're making sure that we're taking care of problems Thursday and Friday, because not that he doesn't, didn't want some hours on the weekend.
• 2:28
  But he didn't want to deal with the mass hysteria in the parking lot that happens with this customer base on the weekend. So I think, you know, the more we stay after the technology side, the more we stay after the talent management side, each one's going to have us, you know, help us get a little incrementally better as we go, you know, as together in the industry.
• 2:29
  Because I think there's, there's no silver bullet. It's just, it doesn't exist. We're going to have to do it all. We're going to have to manage our talent, get new talent, keep the talent we got, train the talent we got. And then, you know, engage technology to offset and help us with some of the gaps.
• 2:30
  Trevor: And I love that.
• 2:31
  And this is the same thing that once again, I'm talking to a lot of other people in the industry is like, how do we get a, uh, technology? And this is the way we're going to grow. It is by getting technology in there, reduce these night calls. Cause they're going to happen. You're going to be at dinner with your family and you got to call and you got to go take it.
• 2:32
  That's our responsibility. That's part of our role. That's why you get paid extra money for going to do those things. But with technology, we're going to see that. I think we're going to start to reduce that, uh, that down. It's still going to happen. And this is why, like I talked to young people coming into the industry.
• 2:33
  Expectations. And I think that's where some people don't talk, you know, they get into a career, a young person getting a career and think refrigerations is one way. Oh, you can make 200 grand a year. You know what I mean? And all this stuff you can travel the world, which is great. You can do that, but there is a cost to it.
• 2:34
  A lot of learning, sometimes sitting up at a site, sitting on a bucket, looking, waiting until a problem happens. It's not always the funnest part, but, or getting up from the table in the middle of dinner with your family, because this stuff you have to do. But these are the things that we need to talk about these new people to give those expectations before they get in.
• 2:35
  They spend two years of their life and then they start to realize, uh, I don't want to actually do that on call. I want to work a nine to five and that's what I want to be. And that's totally fine. If you want to do your nine to five, but being a supermarket technician, that is not, that is not it being a service manager in refrigeration.
• 2:36
  That's not, it's not a nine to five job. We're a 24 seven job and we build teams to mitigate that amount of time. So you'll have an on call list. You know, you're not on call every day. You might be on call depending on where you're at once a month, once every two months, once a quarter, maybe once every six months, depending on how big it is.
• 2:37
  And then it could be structured differently. So these are the ideas I talk with service manager, instead of putting someone on for a whole week, maybe it's three days, maybe it's one day. And then expectations. Another one for any technicians looking out there, work with your service manager on these days that you're there, there's, you can't work on that.
• 2:38
  They, even if it's on call, you tell them in January 1st on this day, it's my. Child's birthday. I cannot work that day. Even if I'm on call, can you make sure that we sort this out before it comes a week before, and I tell you, you know what I mean? And you can do this. Most service managers, if you build a plan with them.
• 2:39
  Before that, you know, that year, they're going to be like, yeah, like that, that day, let's figure it out. You're on call that day, but let's ask a couple of people, your team and see if they can fill in that one day for you. You know what I mean? And most other refrigeration technicians will do that. And, uh, uh, that's what I love about the industry that a lot of the technician, they care about each other, right?
• 2:40
  There there's always,
• 2:41
  Ashley: absolutely. I mean, I've got. Dozens of stories over the years where we had a hurricane come through and, you know, our team from, you know, 1 state went to another state and help that area get back up and running that it's it's just a fantastic camaraderie. We got to continue to build it.
• 2:42
  And, you know, make sure everybody understands the expectations. There's no doubt about it. There's going to be tough days, long days. But hey, these other industries have it too, right? And that's the other reality is there's, there's going to be a long day in an HVAC side too. It may just be when they're, you know, replacing rooftop units, and they got to get everything done over the weekend.
• 2:43
  And who knows? But at the end of the day, we got to be honest about the expectations. We got to be honest with our customers, got to be honest with our employees. And continue to chip away at it. Cause I think, I think the good news is this industry is not going anywhere. It's only going to get bigger. It's only going to get faster.
• 2:44
  It's only going to get, you know, more fun as, as the, uh, as the technology advances.
• 2:45
  Trevor: Yeah, I love it. I could sit here and talk another hour with you about about this. Um, actually final question What would be like one tip one piece of advice? You'd give someone new coming into the industry or someone who's been in industry for a while But just like it's just the same thing day in or day out.
• 2:46
  What's like one piece of advice?
• 2:47
  Ashley: You know, I think number one if you're confident in your abilities From a core thermodynamics standpoint, like if you're really comfortable You With you understand pressure temperature and you understand the main components. Number one, that's the core. If you don't, I would tell you, go spend the time on that core.
• 2:48
  Get really comfortable in the core of of the refrigeration 101. Um, and there's various classes out there that we all have, and we've all ran guys through. But if that's confusing to you, you need to get very, very good at that. Because that to me is the foundation of wherever you want to go, as I said earlier, whether it's controls, whether it's running your own business, whether it's, uh, even the HVAC side or, you know, heat pump side, you got to be really good at that.
• 2:49
  So, 1st of all, check that off your list, um, and make sure you're super comfortable with that side of the business because then you can do, because I've seen a lot of guys. Not be comfortable in that and not really understand, you know, the component tree and what it's, you know, metering device, what it's supposed to be doing and little things like that.
• 2:50
  They just glossed over it in their, you know, their vocational training glossed over it in their. Their apprenticeship training and, you know, thought I'd get it later and you just can't it's so hard to catch up after you miss some of those fundamentals. So that's step 1. if you're comfortable there, but now you're struggling with, maybe you've got a very complicated customer base.
• 2:51
  That's got a wide range of equipment, a wide range of diversity. I would, I would challenge them to talk with their lead techs and try to break that down into the simple componentry that makes sense. You know, compare and contrast. Because 1 line diagram here doesn't always match what's in the field and really try to put those 2 together and match them up componentry and what they're supposed to do functionally.
• 2:52
  Because as we know, in the field, you're going to have more control valves and more more things metering back and forth. But. I think really trying to break it down into a fundamental grassroots approach to that troubleshooting is probably where a lot of guys get frustrated. And so you got to get good at the core and then try to take what you're working on day to day and relate it back to the core.
• 2:53
  Um, I think that's, you know, where guys, where guys got it, it clicked, you know? And when it clicks now you're off to the races. And I liken it to kind of the first time we all saw trigonometry or something in high school. We're like, who in the world, you know, thought of this and I'm sure kids seeing, you know, thermodynamics and the refrigeration cycle for the 1st time are like, what, you know, what, who thought of this, um, And so trying to break it down to, to get it to click, um, is stay after it, you know, don't, don't give up there.
• 2:54
  You'll get it. It's just a matter of trying to relate the compilatories back to the core so that it's fundamental for you and you know what it's supposed to do and why it does it and ask those questions along the way. Um, because I think sometimes our really good guys are so good at what they do, they, they assume that the new guys know, and they don't always ask questions.
• 2:55
  And they're just like, oh, he didn't tell me. So it must not be, you know, important. So ask those questions and try to get those core fundamentals down because I think that's what, um, That's what's going to be good no matter what they do in the industry. Yeah,
• 2:56
  Trevor: I like that ask question that's so important in our industry.
• 2:57
  Ashley, I want to thank you so much for taking the time. How can people find out more about you, your organization, if they want to get involved or learn more about what you guys have going on at uh,
• 2:58
  Ashley: Hussman? Yeah, so you can check us out at our husband website husband dot com. So, it's got all of our products, all of our job offerings, all that stuff job postings are out there.
• 2:59
  So, if there's an opportunity out there, it always gets posted. I'm on LinkedIn, you can hit me up on LinkedIn. You know, our, our partnership with Lincoln tech, who's our vocational partner, they're out on the website too. So they're, you know, anybody looking at. Hey, I might be interested in in refrigeration.
• 3:00
  Check out the Lincoln Tech program. They've got, uh, you know, multitude of campuses across the country from the northeast, southeast out in the West Coast. Um, or Midwest too, as well. So you can check them out as too, if you're, you're brand new into the industry or just thinking about it. So we'd love to have you, we need you.
• 3:01
  Trevor: I love that, actually. I want to thank you so much for taking the time and I appreciate you and what you do in the industry. Thanks. Well,
• 3:02
  Ashley: thank you as well. I know you have, uh, you've been very active with part of our team in the Midwest and, uh, heard good things about the program there too. So we're looking at, at seeing where that goes as well.
• 3:03
  Trevor: Love it. Yeah. No, it was a lot of fun. You guys got great guys and techs there and I really appreciate working with you guys. So
• 3:04
  Ashley: awesome. Well, thank you for having me. I want to thank you so much for hanging
• 3:05
  Trevor: out with me and the refrigeration mentor podcast.
• 3:06
  Ashley: If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a comment.
• 3:07
  Let me know what were your key highlights. What you took away from myself or my guests, as well as if you have not subscribed yet, head over to Apple podcasts or Spotify and subscribe. And if you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. Let your friends know that there are people who care, who want to share the refrigeration information
• 3:08
  Trevor: to help them get to the next level in their career.
• 3:09
  Ashley: If you have not been to the refrigeration mentor website at refrigerationmentor. com, go check it out. There's a
• 3:10
  Trevor: ton more guest podcasts
• 3:11
  Ashley: I've been on as well as the event page. Check out the events page because
• 3:12
  Trevor: there's a lot more free trainings as well as paid training to really help you grow your knowledge base.
• 3:13
  Ashley: Super excited. Can't wait to see at the next refrigeration mentor podcasts. Let's get a
• 3:14
  Trevor: conversation going.