Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / NT Police Association President Paul McCue says the Chief Minister's claims the union is stoking division in the community by weaponising his words are nonsense

Transcript

NT Police Association President Paul McCue says the Chief Minister's claims the union is stoking division in the community by weaponising his words are nonsense · 360 with Katie Woolf

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  Speaker 1: Now we know that it was pretty extraordinary, like I've
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  Speaker 1: said in Parliament yesterday, for a lot of reasons. But
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  Speaker 1: the Chief Minister, Michael Gunner, described a so called political
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  Speaker 1: campaign by the Northern Territory Police Association as malicious during
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  Speaker 1: question time. As we've previously heard on the show, the
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  Speaker 1: association has continually urged the Chief Minister to withdraw his
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  Speaker 1: now infamous line. Consequences will flow after a jury found
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  Speaker 1: Constable Zach Rolf not guilty of murder. Mister gonna claim
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  Speaker 1: the opposition and the Northern Territory Police Association was seeking
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  Speaker 1: to use the line to stoke division in the community.
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  Speaker 1: Now joining me on the line is the Police Association
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  Speaker 1: President Paul McHugh.
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  Speaker 2: Good morning to Paul.
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  Speaker 3: Morning Katy.
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  Speaker 2: Here are you going very well? Paul?
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  Speaker 1: Are you stoking an already volatile situation.
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  Speaker 3: It's just complained nonsense, really, Katie. I mean, obviously you
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  Speaker 3: know it's pretty sad that we have to sit here
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  Speaker 3: and listen again to the Chief Minister try and divert
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  Speaker 3: a form of responsibility from the words he said to
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  Speaker 3: an organization that represents the swarm police officers who are
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  Speaker 3: out there every day working hard and obviously they remained
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  Speaker 3: upset from day one about those comments, whether obviously you know,
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  Speaker 3: what he meant to say didn't come out right at
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  Speaker 3: the time, and obviously, you know, it certainly upset many
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  Speaker 3: of our officers at the time and continues to do
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  Speaker 3: so today. And of course we reflect, simply reflect the
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  Speaker 3: feeling of those officers about what we was said at
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  Speaker 3: the time, and to simply to stand there and say, well,
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  Speaker 3: we're creating this divide is complete and other nonsense and
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  Speaker 3: we totally reject that.
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  Speaker 1: Well, what percentage of the Northern Territory Police Force does
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  Speaker 1: the Police Association represent?
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  Speaker 3: Nearly ninety nine percent, Katie, So just about every single
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  Speaker 3: person that to sworn officer, police, auxiliary, abiginal community police
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  Speaker 3: officer are members of the Northern Territory Police Association. So,
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  Speaker 3: you know, when we've the last two years have been very,
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  Speaker 3: very difficult for a lot of people, and obviously our
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  Speaker 3: officers have had to wait over two and a half
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  Speaker 3: year or nearly two and a half years for the
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  Speaker 3: outcome of the criminal trial. And through that period we
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  Speaker 3: respected that process and everyone should have done that, and
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  Speaker 3: obviously that large portion of the membership were very very
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  Speaker 3: vocal at the time of the comments being made and
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  Speaker 3: to nearly two and a half years later, that responsibility
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  Speaker 3: for those words still lies with the Chief Minister, and
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  Speaker 3: rightly so, and he can't reflect from that. It's his words,
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  Speaker 3: not ours, and we're simply reflecting the views of our members.
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  Speaker 1: Paul, what are your members saying to you since since
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  Speaker 1: the Roles trial concluded? What are they saying and what
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  Speaker 1: are they still saying to you about the comments which
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  Speaker 1: were made by the Chief Minister.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, obviously at the time, pretty much the same
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  Speaker 3: as all at the time. I mean, obviously they were
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  Speaker 3: very concerned, you know, with those words. We know the
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  Speaker 3: Chief Minister explained himself eventually around the fact he was
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  Speaker 3: talking about a crale investigation, but they were very concerned.
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  Speaker 3: He used the words consequences of the word particularly, and
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  Speaker 3: obviously that inferred to them and they perceived it as
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  Speaker 3: he thinks there's been some wrongdoing and the community will, well,
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  Speaker 3: we'll expect some sort of outcome from that wrongdoing. And obviously,
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  Speaker 3: whether that was right or wrong, or however it was
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  Speaker 3: perceived at the time, our members were extremely upset. Since
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  Speaker 3: the trials concluded, there's still a lot of questions that
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  Speaker 3: can't be answered. We've obviously got a coronal investigation to
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  Speaker 3: come that's been listed for September for ten weeks. We
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  Speaker 3: look forward to that process taking its course where hopefully
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  Speaker 3: some more questions can be answered. But they're still very
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  Speaker 3: frustrated because there's still a lot of unknown to this day.
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  Speaker 1: So Paul, would you say right now there are still
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  Speaker 1: members of the police force that are raising those comments
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  Speaker 1: with you and speaking to you as the president of
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  Speaker 1: the Police Association about those comments made by the Chief Minister,
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  Speaker 1: or is this something I guess what I'm getting to is,
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  Speaker 1: you know is the Chief Minister is essentially saying that
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  Speaker 1: you're stoking the fire. But are you raising this because
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  Speaker 1: members of the Association of raising it with you.
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  Speaker 3: I was in our Springs last Friday. They raised it
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  Speaker 3: with me there. They raised it every day with me
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  Speaker 3: on whether it's through email or phone. I've even had
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  Speaker 3: police from around the country continue to raise their concerns
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  Speaker 3: about those comments. So I'm not stoking any fires. I'm
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  Speaker 3: not trying to inflame anything. I'm creating any division. This
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  Speaker 3: is about making sure people who say and do certain
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  Speaker 3: things are responsible for those actions. It doesn't matter if
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  Speaker 3: it was now or two years down the track, and
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  Speaker 3: that's all our job is is to reflect those views
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  Speaker 3: of the membership.
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  Speaker 1: Paul, are you pretty frustrated at this point in time
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  Speaker 1: about the way that this is all sort of continuing
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  Speaker 1: to roll out.
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  Speaker 3: Absolutely, because look at the heart of this, we've got
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  Speaker 3: a police force that's really it struggled in terms of
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  Speaker 3: morale over the last couple of years. We're losing a
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  Speaker 3: lot of members over that last couple of years. I
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  Speaker 3: feel a bit down at times. And obviously resourcing can
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  Speaker 3: he needs to be a problem. So they just want
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  Speaker 3: to see they want to see some answers, but they
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  Speaker 3: also want to see that level of support from their
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  Speaker 3: chief minister, from the government around a whole bunch of issues.
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  Speaker 3: You know, we've got a whole lot of things going
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  Speaker 3: on in the Northern Territory around youth crime and crime
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  Speaker 3: and alcohol related harm, and these are things we need
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  Speaker 3: to be focusing on. And yet he wants to throw
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  Speaker 3: the police Union, which represents nearly every police officer out there,
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  Speaker 3: under the bus over a comment he made over two
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  Speaker 3: years ago. And I think it's just really poor schoolyard
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  Speaker 3: tactics and we're just not not entertaining that in any way.
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  Speaker 3: I'm sorry, it's just to completely reject those inferences he's making.
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  Speaker 1: The Chief Minister claims that, you know, some of this
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  Speaker 1: questioning isn't just an attack on him, but an attack
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  Speaker 1: on the police. Is this.
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  Speaker 3: I have no idea what thinking comes to that conclusion.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, honestly, if he thinks us making comments about
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  Speaker 3: him is attacking our own men members, I mean, heaven,
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  Speaker 3: please explain that. I mean, I have no idea where
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  Speaker 3: he's coming from with that one. I'm sorry.
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  Speaker 2: Do you support an inquiry?
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  Speaker 1: I know that the opposition is obviously calling quite strongly
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  Speaker 1: for an inquiry to happen.
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  Speaker 2: Do you support that? Does the Association support that?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah? Look, obviously, as I said, there's a lot of
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  Speaker 3: questions still to be answered. Obviously, as I said, there's
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  Speaker 3: a coronal investigation to take place that won't take place
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  Speaker 3: until September. Now, we don't know really what that will
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  Speaker 3: look at at this stage, and until we know that,
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  Speaker 3: we don't know when you know, what's going to come
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  Speaker 3: as a result of that particular coronials. So we're keen
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  Speaker 3: to see the terms of reference around that and what
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  Speaker 3: the scope is for that particular matter, but certainly there
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  Speaker 3: needs to be a review into what we called for
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  Speaker 3: it on the Monday after the trial, we said there
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  Speaker 3: needs to be some interrogation around some of the actions
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  Speaker 3: shortly after the shooting, and we maintain that stance today.
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  Speaker 3: And obviously this has been a really tough time for
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  Speaker 3: a lot of police out there. Katie. We're talking not
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  Speaker 3: just comfortable role with his family, but the investigators, the witnesses,
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  Speaker 3: the whole police forces really has really been under the
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  Speaker 3: pump over the last two years because of this, Paul.
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  Speaker 1: I know that there was recently a survey which was
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  Speaker 1: conducted by the Northern Territory government, so not a police
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  Speaker 1: association survey, that really looked into the morale I think
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  Speaker 1: it'd say of the police force. You and I have
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  Speaker 1: spoken about police morale for some time, but from your perspective,
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  Speaker 1: what did this survey show.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I had some fairly poor results. I mean, obviously
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  Speaker 3: there was quite a bit of feedback in that survey, which,
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  Speaker 3: as you pointed out, is a police fire an emergency
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  Speaker 3: service specific survey, so it was something run by the
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  Speaker 3: government and I know they had a lot of feedback
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  Speaker 3: on that. We haven't really seen any updates in terms
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  Speaker 3: of the results and what that means and what actions
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  Speaker 3: might be put in place. But I'm acutely aware the
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  Speaker 3: Commissioner would be looking at that because there was some
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  Speaker 3: pretty concerning results out of that survey around morale and
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  Speaker 3: resourcing and that sort of thing, and that's reflected and
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  Speaker 3: what our survey came up with last year as well.
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  Speaker 1: Paul, how is the morale of the force again, I
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  Speaker 1: know I asked you about this last week, but how
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  Speaker 1: is the morale of the force right now?
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  Speaker 3: It's difficult, it's challenging. Obviously, we've got a lot of
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  Speaker 3: people that continue to leave the police force at the moment,
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  Speaker 3: so we're losing that experience and I know the Commission's
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  Speaker 3: looking at alternatives around that. But what really impacts morale, Cadie,
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  Speaker 3: is your resourcing. And you know, we're still today getting
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  Speaker 3: a lot of phone calls from members saying, you know,
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  Speaker 3: we've only got one van on the road again and
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  Speaker 3: they're just job to job to job to job and
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  Speaker 3: it's taking its toll and that really is affecting morale.
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  Speaker 3: So let's get that right and maybe we can turn
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  Speaker 3: things around pretty quickly. But I know that's something we've
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  Speaker 3: focused on and talking to the Commissioner about Paul.
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  Speaker 1: When you talk about those numbers of how many police
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  Speaker 1: are leaving the force at the moment, where are we
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  Speaker 1: sitting per month?
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  Speaker 3: I think you know, we're still sitting approximately between ten
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  Speaker 3: and fifteen a month at this stage, and I mean
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  Speaker 3: that's just on average, but of course when we're looking
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  Speaker 3: at it as a national average, we're probably still sitting
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  Speaker 3: twice or three times a national average, which is probably
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  Speaker 3: the biggest concern given you know other police forces, we
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  Speaker 3: know the Federal Police, we know South Australia, we know Queensland.
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  Speaker 3: They're all going to be recruiting very heavily this year
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  Speaker 3: and possibly lateral type transfers where you can move over
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  Speaker 3: at rank or holding your qualifications and that will really
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  Speaker 3: impact the Northern Territory again this year as it has
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  Speaker 3: over the last couple of years.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I do want to ask you have you as
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  Speaker 1: the association president, I know that you know there's obviously
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  Speaker 1: this pretty pretty heightened discussion which is taking place not
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  Speaker 1: between you and the Chief Minister, but sort of in the.
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  Speaker 2: Media and on the proof freeze.
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  Speaker 1: You're obviously not overly happy with the Chief Minister at
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  Speaker 1: this point. In time, has the Police Minister given that
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  Speaker 1: support to the police force.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, look, we still obviously maintain contact with the Police Minister,
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  Speaker 3: so she holds the portfolio, and you know, we certainly
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  Speaker 3: are planning another meeting in the very near future, so
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  Speaker 3: that hasn't waned. We certainly know. I mean, we'll continually
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  Speaker 3: raise our concerns through her office and rightly so as
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  Speaker 3: the Minister, and she continues to provide us some assurances
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  Speaker 3: around support for police. But of course, you know when
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  Speaker 3: that support is excellent in terms of words, but we
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  Speaker 3: need in actions to see that resourcing model looked at.
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  Speaker 3: We need to make sure we've got enough police to
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  Speaker 3: do what they're being asked to do. And let's not
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  Speaker 3: forget the last couple of years, of course, has been
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  Speaker 3: difficult with COVID and the responsibilities police have been given there.
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  Speaker 3: So certainly we still have maintain that contact with the Minister,
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  Speaker 3: and we've got a meeting coming up very soon.
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  Speaker 1: Paul, I know it had been reported, and please correct
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  Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong. It had been reported that you
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  Speaker 1: had called for the Chief Minister to step aside if
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  Speaker 1: he couldn't commit to helping heal divisions with the community.
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  Speaker 2: And the Police Service. Do you maintain that.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, obviously what we're what our point there is, Katie,
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  Speaker 3: is simply we just want to the last two has
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  Speaker 3: been very difficult, very very difficult, difficult for a lot
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  Speaker 3: of people. It's time to start heading in the right direction,
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  Speaker 3: and we want the Chief Minister to reach out and
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  Speaker 3: make sure he's doing everything he can in his role
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  Speaker 3: to make sure police have got what they need to
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  Speaker 3: do their job and continue to do it in a
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  Speaker 3: professional and well resourced capacity. If he's not willing to
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  Speaker 3: reach out and make that make that contact, well then
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  Speaker 3: maybe he should step aside and let someone else take
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  Speaker 3: that opportunity. But you know, there's a lot of there's
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  Speaker 3: a long way ahead, there's still a lot of water
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  Speaker 3: to go under the bridge, and certainly we want to
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  Speaker 3: make sure that our members are represented appropriately and we're
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  Speaker 3: doing that for the best of our ability by raising
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  Speaker 3: these concerns on their behalf.
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  Speaker 1: Police Association President Paul McHugh, I really appreciate your.
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  Speaker 2: Time this morning. Thanks so much for speaking with me.
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  Speaker 3: Thanks Katie Chan, thank you