Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 903: Stranded Whales, Cattle-Killing Wolves, and Maine Cleans Up Its Act

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Ep. 903: Stranded Whales, Cattle-Killing Wolves, and Maine Cleans Up Its Act · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the news show everybody. Today, We've got news
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: about my unfortunate, regrettable criminal past. Damn removals in Maine,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: stranded Wales on the Pacific coast. Anti Buffalo politicians are
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: generally winning, but they suffered a minor setback. And you've
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: heard of earn a buck. Well, welcome to earn a
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: second buck. And you won't believe this one. Wolves eat cows.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: But first our news, and to open up our news,
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: we have a special guest here. The special guest's name
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: is John Jersek. He is a retired Michigan conservation officer.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Some folks call him game wardens, but in Michigan they
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: call him conservation officers. And I got to give some
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: background here. We're going back in time to around my
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: guess would be ninety three or nineteen ninety four. I
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: was parked in my truck on Mannisseee National Forest where
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Cedar Creek crosses underneath M one twenty, checking mink traps.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: In behind me pulls a game ward and a conservation officer.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: He gets out we're talking. He asked me have you
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: been setting snares? Which alarmed me because I had and
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: they were illegal in that area, and it wasn't my fault.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: I'll explain how it wasn't my fault. I'll explain right now.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: There was a game There was a fur buyer named
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Abe Salasina, and I would sell some fer to Abe Salacene,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: and Abe Salacena would always be pushing snares on you
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: when the snow got deep. Abe b You know what
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: guys do in other areas is they sat these snares
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: and fur keeps coming in all winter. So it was
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: my fault, but it was very alarming to me, and
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: I lied. I lied. This this is all terrible. I'm
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: just being upfront about my behavior. I lied, and then
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: the game warden, the conservation officer goes to my annoyance,
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: goes through every trap in my truck, checking the tags
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: you're legally obligated to have a tag on there, checks
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: them all. We converse. He leaves. Now I have written
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: about this, I've talked about it. I told the story
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago. My good friend from back home,
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Ronnie Bain, is talking to a retired conservation officer. The
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: retired conservation officer knowing where Ronnie's from. He's from the
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: same twin Lake ask him, do you know a guy
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Steve Ranella who I checked for whatever back in nineteen
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: ninety four, And I thought to myself, why in the
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: world is this on this man's mind? Now? Ronnie suggested,
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: I ask him here he is, thank you for coming
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: on the show thirty years later.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Well, well, I'm glad we've had this chance to sit
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: down and talk. And I'll tell you, you know, even though
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: it's spent a long time, you're gonna feel a lot
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: better getting us off your chest.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: Okay, I've gotten it off my chest. I just need
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: to hear from your perspective because at the time I
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: didn't ask you what you're thinking and what you're doing.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: To walk me through your recollection of this.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting that you know how you get caught
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: with a snapshot in your brain of a spot, you know,
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: in an incident or a time. I can see that
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: I can picture you know, these eyes a good spy.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: You know there was a sand trap there and you
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: could work trout fish right along that piece of ground.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: And you know, we get trapped a little bit too.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: Right, everybody, everybody set mink traps.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: There right right, real comments spy, this right along a
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: busy road. Yeah, so anyways, and you know, I've been there,
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: of course, dozens and dozens of times in my career
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: when I worked around here, and I can't remember, you
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: know what. You know, I think we approached this incident
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: from two different perspectives. I may have simply just hey,
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: here's a guy trapping, right, I'm gonna check them, uh,
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: and then going through traps and mentioning about snaring. The
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: bottom line the end to this whole story is I
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: I was clueless that you had any snares?
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: How does he know I have snares? Though?
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: John? Did you know that?
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: Did you know that this fur buyer was out there
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: pushing young trappers to use snares?
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: Did you know that the name?
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I know the name, know who that was?
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: Didn't know it was being pushed, so to speak. But
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: but here here was. And this is probably why I
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: threw a and asked the question. Right, that was at
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: a time when it was it was growing an interest
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: locally sneering and you know, and I knew for sure
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: it was going on, but it wasn't at the time
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: legal It is today, but at the time it wasn't legal. So,
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: you know, just like any other, you know, game more
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: not a phishing expedition. I'm going to ask a few
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: questions and see what he says.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: You know, but you started right out with that question.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: I don't so I don't know if it was this part.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: I don't honestly remember. Did I was was Did I
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: have some knowledge that maybe you, as a local guy,
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: were doing it? I don't remember that part one. Let
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: me add this. When I was playing out paperwork when
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: I retired back in nineteen you know, remember we had
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: the old report all poaching complaints, the rough complaints.
• 5:53
  Speaker 5: I had found one from.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: You, and it was the best I can recall again
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: is it was Cedar Creek, No, no goes Bear Creek,
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: Bear Creek, okay, and uh, somebody had come across, or
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: you had come across maybe untagged traps or something like that.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: But I got in huge trouble with this from Abe Salasina. Okay.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: I had found where a guy was trapping before season.
• 6:25
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: And even though even though I was, you know, as
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: innocent as it was, even though I was a violator,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: I didn't want anyone else violating, and I thought that
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: that violation was a bad violation. So I called and
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: reported a guy for trapping. Before season, some informant told
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: Abe Salasina. Abe Salasina ripped into me that you would
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: ever report a trapper for anything, And where do you
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: get off and you take that man to man, you
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: do not call the state? Wow, Okay, well.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: A whole on. That's a good that's a good story
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: right in among itself, that in the trapper world, things
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: do get settled out on the road. You know, if
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: if people are stealing traps, if they're stealing fur from traps,
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: if they're trespassing, or even you know, if if one
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: guy gets on another guy's turf, that that little war
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: usually gets settled somewhere out there along the stream bank
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: or in the woods or wherever. And of course we
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: never heard about it. There was a number of local
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: trappers though, that I got to be pretty decent friends with,
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: and that you know, they were pretty good. Yeah, I
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: don't even want to call them informants. They just tended
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: to do the right thing and wanted to see things
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: done right. We're getting about four stories down the road now,
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: But on that rap complaint, it looked like I can
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: of remember the the verbiage on it is. I ended
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: up finding a young kid, you know, a teen or
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: something like that, and I had gotten back a hold
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: of you, and you wondered if I could just handle
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: it with a warning, which I did.
• 8:11
  Speaker 5: Oh, and that's how that n did.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: That's probably after I got in trouble with Abe Salsino,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: and it.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: Could well be. But the yeah, that was the whole deal.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: And then going back to our Cedar Creek contact, I
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: don't know, you know, don't I don't recall that I
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: specifically remembered I was after you or I had solid
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: information that you were doing it. But the whole thing
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: about snares at the time is kind of everybody was
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: starting to do it. You know, it was something that
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: people were doing wasn't legal yet it was so easy.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: You could cover a lot of ground, you could trespass easy.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: What people were doing. It was even using it along
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: the thirty one corridor on the highways, like in the fences.
• 8:57
  Speaker 5: Yea doing stuff like that, And we.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: Probably didn't have an there are coyotes at that time
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: that we do now, but you know they were growing
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: in numbers too, and people were working at and you know,
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: as a trapper, anytime first starts going higher than normal
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: right man. The incentive to cheap ends up there, whether
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: it be trespassed another guy's turf, stealing some traps. And
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: I know I recovered quite a few stolen traps for
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: area trappers, you know, either out of the Whitehall Marge
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: or Muskegan marsh Yep.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you why it always stuck with me. What
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: I was doing is I was snaring red fox down
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: in the thickets, right, And when you said that, I
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: knew you knew, But I thought, why did he not
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: take it? Why did he not take it? Or why
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: did he not just steak one out or do some
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: kind of stuff to catch me? Right? And then I
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: was paranoid and quit for a while.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Oh one time, one time on another local trapper. I
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: won't use a name though, but it was out at
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: the wastewater. Okay, real, real common wastewater trapper out there.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Oh, can I take a s. Did his first name
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: start with a B and his last name start with
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: the F? No? Was it b C?
• 10:26
  Speaker 5: We should have this conversation.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: So anyways, the point was is he had a few
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: words with me out on the out on the dirt
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: road in the middle of the wastewater, like you know,
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: why are you eyes after me?
• 10:41
  Speaker 6: And all that.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: I concluded the conversation by turning around, getting back in
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: my truck and said, you know, Parenoia is a mighty
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: powerful tool, isn't it?
• 10:50
  Speaker 5: And I just drove away.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: So, man, all right, My last question for you, John,
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: and I appreciate you doing this, My last question for
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: you is, since it was a nothing thing and you
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: didn't get me a ticket and you were just throwing
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: that out there as a fishing expedition, why did it
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: stick in your mind? Because I wasn't like a known
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: figure at all. I was. I had never been in trouble,
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 11:16
  Speaker 5: Right right right, Yeah, let's clarify to the audience.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: You weren't anybody that I had on the radar or
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: was following around or anything like that, or he had
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: as best I can recall any specific information, you know,
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: on you doing anything. So I don't know, why does
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: it stick in my mind? You got me, you know,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: I know I dealt with a number of local trappers
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: over the years, good and bad.
• 11:41
  Speaker 5: I don't know some of them. You know, you were
• 11:43
  Speaker 5: just around for so long.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: You sort of got to know these guys, and you know,
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: it's it's nothing, nothing real specific, nothing evil.
• 11:53
  Speaker 5: I don't remember again.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: I think this was just a chance meeting out out
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: on the side end one twenty and I thought, hey,
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: I'll throw a darts, see if the guys got snares,
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: you know, and you know, as a trapper, finding people
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: snares and that sort of thing not an easy task.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: And well, yeah, and that's one of the things if
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: you talk to people that run a lot of snares,
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: I don't think they recover them all every year, you know,
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: because how do you simply remember if you got out
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: a hundred of them, you know, where are they all?
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, they were all.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: Snaring was also starting to gain in popularity, like in
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: those uh you know, sort of the edge of the
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: skiing and Grand Haven Grand Rapids, those edges like the
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: fringe urban areas ye you know, you know, places where
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: you might have fox and stuff like that down in there. Yeah.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: So there you go, man, I sure appreciate you coming on.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: This is going to add significant color to the story.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: It's going to it's a hot tip for game wardens
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: just to throw out wild stuff, just through a wild accusations,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: just to see if someone if it hits, and also
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: to induce paranoia and poachers.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, the whole nature of the job is
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: quite a bit of smoking mirrors. You know, a lot
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: of times you're covering a county by yourself or more
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: you know, and vast areas. You know, you might be
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: an hour to the other side of the area you
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: cover or more so, Like I say, it's smoking mirrors,
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: trying to make everybody feel that you're everywhere at once
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: twenty four to seven, right, which is impossible. So to
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: chum the waters with a little bit of information out there,
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: you know, and ask some questions. Yeah, never know.
• 13:41
  Speaker 5: Sometimes you get lucky and they say something.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Well, it worked on me. I'd formed the opinion of
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: you that you knew all things that you were, like
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: you have like godlike omniscience about the woods. So thank
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: you very much for coming on, John, I appreciate it. Man,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: enjoy it. Enjoy the rest of your retirement, all right,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: thank muchav Oh buddy, take it easy.
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: Thanks John.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: Thanks, it's great, Oh, Nate, pull up where it all happened?
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, for you people watched on YouTube, here's where
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: it all went down.
• 14:11
  Speaker 6: What other game wardens can we interview that you've ran
• 14:14
  Speaker 6: into in the past.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: You know, it's a great story. Uh, we were one
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: time here in Montana. We're hunting ducks and we had
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: our decoys in the canoe. We weren't in the canoe.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: We were using the canoe to drag our decoys. Opening day,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: I get a ticket for no life jackets. I try
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: to seventy five dollar ticket. I try to explain, but
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: we're not in the canoe. He's like, come on. I'm like,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: I'm serious, man, it's just we're just using the drag decoys.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Still a ticket the next year, I'm not kidding you.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: A year later, opening day, same boat launch, same canoe,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: full of decoys, different game. Warden pulls in, writes me
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: a citation.
• 14:53
  Speaker 6: Wow.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: I'm like, but we're not in the canoe. Me and
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: the same buddy, seventy five dollars ticket.
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: Again, I think you would have learned.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: But that's not as good of a story. All right,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: what's next? Max is right in, Oh, this is more
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: our news. This is more our news here.
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: Oh, I'd like to preface this with, uh, well, the
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: text chain started at four fifty seven am.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: He's got a new baby.
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but it also must have gotten fired up to
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: be texting another guy at four fifty seven am.
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: It's a little bit early.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: I feel like I think he's up all night with
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: that new baby, so he's probably got nothing to do
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: changing diapers.
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: You can think about it, he says. Drake's don't quack
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: like a hen, and I'll stand by that till I die.
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: I said, yeah, the cornell that proved that, but also
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: proved that they do quack like a drake. What I'm
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: calling a quack is pretty specific. I think ducks make
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: a lot of sounds, I said, depending on how discerning
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: the ear is. And since in quotes Max, they make
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: a lot of sounds, you can see how the two
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: could be conflated.
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: Ha ha. But a drake doesn't quack.
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: Even Rocky knows that that is not the nickname or
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: name of his uh new son. But okay, so that's
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: just just pumping the tires up here a little bit
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: because I'm excited to see what Max came up with.
• 16:15
  Speaker 7: All right, clearing the air here a little bit. Drake
• 16:20
  Speaker 7: mallards do not quack, simple as that, and I'll take
• 16:26
  Speaker 7: that to my grave.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: They don't quack.
• 16:28
  Speaker 7: Yes, they make a sound out of their mouth, but
• 16:31
  Speaker 7: it's more of a buzz or a whistle, just not
• 16:35
  Speaker 7: a quack. I pulled up the same website yawning sever
• 16:39
  Speaker 7: listening to that is drake whistle. That is a hen quack.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: He is splitting hairs a little bit.
• 16:58
  Speaker 7: Yeah, whistle, just two different things.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Sort of like music.
• 17:04
  Speaker 7: There is different pitches, and I think in duck calls
• 17:09
  Speaker 7: there's different pitches as well. A hen mallard can do
• 17:13
  Speaker 7: a high pitch and a low pitch quack. A drake
• 17:16
  Speaker 7: can also do a high pitch whistle and a lower
• 17:19
  Speaker 7: pitch whistle. What I think Yanni is getting confused is
• 17:23
  Speaker 7: that low end whistle. It's not a pure.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Wheat.
• 17:29
  Speaker 7: Is just like a little more sharper, a little more crisp.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: I'll pull up.
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: It sounds a lot like a quack.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: No, hear him out, hear him out. He's getting his
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: calls out, ladies and gentlemen.
• 17:41
  Speaker 7: Drake whistle standard. This is gonna be my high pitched.
• 17:47
  Speaker 6: M M.
• 17:51
  Speaker 7: At the end you can almost hear like a t
• 17:57
  Speaker 7: and then this can be my low end.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: MP.
• 18:06
  Speaker 7: Nowhere near a quack. Simple as that. I am so
• 18:17
  Speaker 7: confident in my opinion. I'm gonna make a T shirt
• 18:22
  Speaker 7: that says drakes don't quack.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: That's confidence.
• 18:27
  Speaker 7: Yeah, So there you have it. There's my opinion, there's
• 18:32
  Speaker 7: my stance on it. Drakes don't quack, they don't quack.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: I think he just wanted to show off his turkey fan.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: Put that in your pipe, smoky yohanni.
• 18:45
  Speaker 6: Wasn't there somebody on the crew who saw a hen
• 18:48
  Speaker 6: turkey gobble?
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: But that happens, but they don't gobble gobble? Right?
• 18:52
  Speaker 6: But like I mean, if if you were to say
• 18:54
  Speaker 6: the kind of gobble but not really gobble, could you
• 18:57
  Speaker 6: not apply the same thing here? Like a drake will
• 19:00
  Speaker 6: quack but not really quack, just kind of a quacky.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: It's not quiet.
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: And I think I wish that Max would have been
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: able to do a better drake whistle. That sounded like
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: that drake quack that we heard from the Cornell Lab
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: of more Orthology.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: Drake quick, all right, spend tell us about the oartion
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: house Bodies.
• 19:18
  Speaker 6: Auction house has one week left. Everything has been bid on.
• 19:21
  Speaker 6: We appreciate everyone throwing their money at this good cause.
• 19:24
  Speaker 6: There's one item though, that does not have a bid yet.
• 19:27
  Speaker 6: That is the boat motor. It's a Honda one fifty
• 19:32
  Speaker 6: V Tech outboard outboard motor. You got to pick it
• 19:35
  Speaker 6: up in Bozeman. We haven't listened at eight k right now.
• 19:37
  Speaker 6: That's that's like the first bid that's going to be made.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: Can I talk about that? Tell why that is? Yep?
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: This this money all goes This is a fun This
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: is a fundraiser like a nonprofit venture. All this money
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: goes to land Access Fund. We know that we can
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: take that one hundred and fifty outboard Hondo.
• 19:56
  Speaker 6: Marketplace, we'd get ten to fifteen kit.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: Because it's worth twice what's got it's got. The only
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: hours that has is the hours that we used to
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: film Doss Boat one season of doss Boat, which is
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: filmed over the course of a few dates.
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, the episode I was involved in, we floated that
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: boat with no engine, then we put the engine on
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: and fished for four hours.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: So my episode only had four hours.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: And so it's it's worth twice if you went and
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: bought it new, which it is, it's worth twice that.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: So we put the minimum at eight grand because we
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: could just go sell it on Facebook marketplace, or probably
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: just take it to Townsend and bring it to an outboard
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: dealer and sell it to him. For eight thousand bars.
• 20:37
  Speaker 6: This is the rare example in our auction house where
• 20:39
  Speaker 6: you could get something at a good deal and no
• 20:41
  Speaker 6: one's been of Dan, no one's been a day. So
• 20:45
  Speaker 6: we got the auction house going for another week. We
• 20:47
  Speaker 6: also have listed my box rocks. I don't feel like
• 20:49
  Speaker 6: that description does it justice, though, so I want to
• 20:51
  Speaker 6: tell you about my five favorite rocks. There's seventeen different
• 20:54
  Speaker 6: rocks I have in here that I've collected over the years.
• 20:56
  Speaker 6: I'm gonna give you my five favorite ones. First one
• 20:58
  Speaker 6: here is wonder Still from Nevada. We had the Mediater
• 21:02
  Speaker 6: Live tour in twenty twenty four. We spent the night
• 21:04
  Speaker 6: in Reno. I got up at five am. I went
• 21:07
  Speaker 6: and got a rental car. I drove out into the
• 21:08
  Speaker 6: desert about ninety minutes to a place car remember Rainbow Mountain.
• 21:12
  Speaker 8: Was everyone like PRIs Spencer going.
• 21:14
  Speaker 6: Steve threatened to come with me. Yeah, Steve threatened to
• 21:16
  Speaker 6: come with me, and I was like, I'll get you
• 21:17
  Speaker 6: up at five am, and you're like, eh, eh, maybe not.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: I was already up.
• 21:21
  Speaker 6: So that that was formed by layers of volcanic ash.
• 21:25
  Speaker 6: It's a popular rock among artists who do mosaics because
• 21:28
  Speaker 6: you know, it's got a bunch of layers of color.
• 21:30
  Speaker 6: It's one of the prettiest rocks I own. So that
• 21:32
  Speaker 6: is wonderstone, also known as Ryo Light.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: There you go.
• 21:36
  Speaker 6: This one's kind of an eyeball shit.
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: A few of these I have.
• 21:39
  Speaker 6: I have a few pieces.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:41
  Speaker 6: There it is when I found it on the mountain.
• 21:43
  Speaker 6: And then the next picture is my suitcase going home.
• 21:46
  Speaker 6: I took them plenty plenty of Ryo Light Wonderstone with me.
• 21:50
  Speaker 6: The tour bus got heavier after that day.
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: That's a big one.
• 21:55
  Speaker 6: Next one obsidian from Oregon. I found this at the
• 21:58
  Speaker 6: Glass Butte in or Again, that's one of the biggest
• 22:02
  Speaker 6: obsidian deposits in the world. Ancient humans were spreading this
• 22:06
  Speaker 6: stuff all across the continent. Obsidian trace back to here
• 22:09
  Speaker 6: has been found in Ohio that ancient people's carried their
• 22:12
  Speaker 6: traded their way there. So we got a big old
• 22:15
  Speaker 6: piece of obsidity. You could keep it raw just like that,
• 22:17
  Speaker 6: or if you're a flint napperor you could turn into something.
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: That's what I was gonna do.
• 22:21
  Speaker 8: You ever just get the urge to break some of
• 22:24
  Speaker 8: the rocks.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: I got some of this and I did bust it
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: all up? Yeah, it's so nice. You hit that with
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: a hammer, dude.
• 22:29
  Speaker 6: Yes, this is a raw piece. You do whatever you
• 22:32
  Speaker 6: like if you're gonna break it up, like put a
• 22:34
  Speaker 6: towel around it and then smash that thing with a
• 22:35
  Speaker 6: hammer and.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Then watch your ask. This stuff is sharp, the sharpest
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: natural substance.
• 22:40
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's it's very sharp. This is a raw piece.
• 22:43
  Speaker 6: It's about the size of a softball, all right. Number
• 22:45
  Speaker 6: three is a leaf fossil from Idaho.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 22:48
  Speaker 6: There's this landowner there who was building a dirt bike
• 22:51
  Speaker 6: track back in the seventies. And as he's building this
• 22:54
  Speaker 6: dirt bike track, he starts excavating the side of a
• 22:57
  Speaker 6: mountain and he uncovers a fifteen million year old lake bed.
• 23:01
  Speaker 6: And that lake formed when there was a volcano nearby
• 23:04
  Speaker 6: that went off and it dammed up this river and
• 23:07
  Speaker 6: just like in the blink of an eye, it it
• 23:09
  Speaker 6: totally flooded this valley and it put all these trees
• 23:13
  Speaker 6: and plant life under some really deep cold water. And
• 23:16
  Speaker 6: so this is one of those leaves looks like probably
• 23:19
  Speaker 6: from an elm.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: How old is that?
• 23:22
  Speaker 6: Fifteen million years old? Likely from an elm tree? Really
• 23:26
  Speaker 6: delicate rock When you go to this guy's place and
• 23:28
  Speaker 6: you find him just on his property somewhere, like I
• 23:30
  Speaker 6: found him driving his tractor around. He's like, you here
• 23:33
  Speaker 6: for the dirt bikes or the fossils, and then you
• 23:35
  Speaker 6: pay him like ten bucks or I don't remember what
• 23:37
  Speaker 6: the what the fee was real cheap. It was like
• 23:39
  Speaker 6: ten dollars and.
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: You found all that, all that and you can for
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: ten bucks. That's you pick which one you want.
• 23:45
  Speaker 6: I don't remember what the dirt bike fee. My my
• 23:48
  Speaker 6: rock hounding fee was real cheap. It was only me
• 23:51
  Speaker 6: and my wife. And then there was one other group there.
• 23:53
  Speaker 6: It was somebody from China who was doing a research project.
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: All that.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: All that.
• 23:59
  Speaker 6: Didn't ask any quot Russian. You just said knock yourself
• 24:01
  Speaker 6: out and the ten dollar feet. So this is one
• 24:04
  Speaker 6: of those fossils that I found there. Damn yeah, I
• 24:07
  Speaker 6: don't know, probably like six inches long. Looks like it's
• 24:09
  Speaker 6: probably from an from an elm tree.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Number two.
• 24:12
  Speaker 6: This is a fish fossil from Wyoming. It's from the
• 24:15
  Speaker 6: world famous Green River Formation. It's a really amazing place
• 24:19
  Speaker 6: called American Fossil. You book your dig like way in
• 24:22
  Speaker 6: advance and then you get to go there. This is
• 24:25
  Speaker 6: a video of what a successful one of these would
• 24:28
  Speaker 6: look like. Wow, this is a nidea.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: You that's me.
• 24:33
  Speaker 6: That's the state fossil of Wyoming. It's an extinct type
• 24:36
  Speaker 6: of herring. It's like one of the coolest places on
• 24:39
  Speaker 6: planet Earth.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: I think.
• 24:40
  Speaker 6: You get to go to this giant quarry. You take
• 24:42
  Speaker 6: home anything you find there. It can be absolutely anything.
• 24:45
  Speaker 6: Fish is the most common, but there's mammals, insects, birds,
• 24:49
  Speaker 6: There's been like a three toed horse that was discovered
• 24:52
  Speaker 6: there and you could find something worth millions of dollars
• 24:54
  Speaker 6: you get to take home. So this is one of
• 24:55
  Speaker 6: those fish that I found that day.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: People do this up. They can go to hell.
• 25:01
  Speaker 7: Uh.
• 25:01
  Speaker 6: And then the last one here is a dino bone
• 25:04
  Speaker 6: that I found in Montana with the famous and infamous
• 25:08
  Speaker 6: Jack Horner.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: I've been on the show him.
• 25:11
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I put him in a real tough spot when
• 25:12
  Speaker 6: he was on that show and I asked him if
• 25:14
  Speaker 6: I could come with on a dino dig. And how
• 25:15
  Speaker 6: does he say?
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: No?
• 25:16
  Speaker 6: You know when there's microphone.
• 25:17
  Speaker 9: That's what happened, Yeah, on the show, and that's all
• 25:21
  Speaker 9: you got in Yeah, I guess.
• 25:23
  Speaker 6: So, So I'm like okay, And I emailed him the
• 25:25
  Speaker 6: next day and like, Jack, when when can I join you?
• 25:28
  Speaker 6: And so like three months later, I was on a
• 25:30
  Speaker 6: dino dig with Jack in northern Montana. And this is
• 25:33
  Speaker 6: a a duck bill dino, a type of duck bill
• 25:36
  Speaker 6: that Jack actually discovered. Uh. And and if we were
• 25:39
  Speaker 6: doing this news show back in February, we might have
• 25:42
  Speaker 6: talked about Jack, huh, because he was in the Epstein Files.
• 25:45
  Speaker 6: So that's why I say the infamous also infamous for
• 25:47
  Speaker 6: other reasons. I never told this story, but I feel
• 25:49
  Speaker 6: like it adds something to this.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, just be clear, being in the Epstein Files doesn't
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: in and of itself mean anything.
• 25:58
  Speaker 6: Yeah, to add context for for Jack's involvement, he went
• 26:03
  Speaker 6: to Epstein's ranch in New Mexico to look for dino bones,
• 26:07
  Speaker 6: and then I think they talked about him joining the
• 26:10
  Speaker 6: ranch in Wyoming to also do some excavating.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's just important.
• 26:15
  Speaker 6: Yes, right, There's some more Jack Horner background about his
• 26:19
  Speaker 6: one of his wives that he had.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, so he married a student.
• 26:24
  Speaker 6: When I go to this dino dig, this was twenty
• 26:27
  Speaker 6: twenty two, I believe as a volunteer, I'm teamed up
• 26:30
  Speaker 6: with a paleontologist, and then you're like given a job
• 26:33
  Speaker 6: and a paleontologist to work with. Our job was prospecting,
• 26:36
  Speaker 6: meaning we got to just like wander around the badlands
• 26:38
  Speaker 6: and look for possible fossils or like big big deposits
• 26:43
  Speaker 6: of fossils. And I'm asking this woman some questions, and
• 26:47
  Speaker 6: all of a sudden I elbow my wife. I'm like,
• 26:49
  Speaker 6: I think this might be Jack's wife, that the student
• 26:53
  Speaker 6: that he married. And then it comes out a little
• 26:55
  Speaker 6: bit later that it was so I found this rock
• 26:58
  Speaker 6: with Jack's famous x Y and Jack they split up
• 27:01
  Speaker 6: the case they split up, Yeah, but they're still friends.
• 27:04
  Speaker 6: They're great friends. And she's like, I love Jack. Jack's
• 27:06
  Speaker 6: one of the most important people in my life. We're
• 27:08
  Speaker 6: great friends. We still work together. So like the only
• 27:11
  Speaker 6: people have touched his bone or Jack Horner, Jack Horner's
• 27:13
  Speaker 6: ex wife me, my wife's that's the fossil you're getting
• 27:18
  Speaker 6: from a type of dinosaur that he discovered back in
• 27:21
  Speaker 6: the seventies that put Jack on the map.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: Duck Bill done got what a box of fossils?
• 27:26
  Speaker 6: Seventeen of them?
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: Those are five of.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: My that's just five. That's the worst five.
• 27:30
  Speaker 6: Yeah, we got petrified wooden here, clam fossils, snail fossils, agots,
• 27:34
  Speaker 6: all kinds of.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: Stuff ingot of gold, No, damn love it? Okay, on
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: on the your news now. Your News today has brought
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: to you by banished suppressors, which I'm holding in my
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: hand here. What I'm holding my hands specifically is the
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: meat eater banish collapse suppressor, which has the equivalent of
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: like a little adjustable muzzle brake apparatus on the end.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: It's thirty cow. Can you can run on anything? I
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: run one of these on my twenty two creed more
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: on a rocky by that. Okay. The your News is
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: a guy that rode in today. He comes and looking
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: for life advice and he's gonna get it. He says
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: he was at a.
• 28:13
  Speaker 10: What was he at a state sale?
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: He was out in a state sale. I don't know
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: how he got there, and Randall wasn't there, but he
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: was at in the state sale and he sees that
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: there's a beaver pelt for sale. Winds up that there's
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: two beaver pelts. Once he gets to asking about it,
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: the old lady wants twenty five bucks for both of them.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: He somehow gets her down to twenty bucks, So he
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: gets two beaver repelts for twenty bucks. He bought him
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: because they seemed cool. He didn't want him to get
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: thrown away. And he bought him because, quote, you guys
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: have talked a lot about fur as such an interesting
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: and high quality material. He goes on to say it,
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: but having them, I don't really know what to do
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: with them. Have a hat made, but it's not that cold here.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't get to use it hardly. Ever. My wife, Okay,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: it's hard for me to say this about crying. He says,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: my wife is unlikely to allow them as the core.
• 29:21
  Speaker 8: I feel like he should have gone a little further here,
• 29:23
  Speaker 8: and like, actually, like he hasn't even asked her yet.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean? We should wish it. I
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: know we need that.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: I sometimes need to ask my wife about something for
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: three months, just waiting for the right moment. I am
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: the other I'm petrified. Anyway, I thought you guys might
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: have some suggestions. Happy if you want to discuss on
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: the pod or even drop me a line or email.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: Thanks in advance. I got a ton of suggestions. There's
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff you could do with it. Nate
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: pulled a picture here or my feet are resting on
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: a beaver fer ottoman? How does a guy like this?
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: How does a guy make something like this? I'll tell you.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: We had an ottoman and it had a little pad.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: I went and got some super thin so scrap a
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: super thin plywood, put the plywood on the bottom, wrapped
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: the beaver hide around the pad, and took a staple
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: gun and there you have it. It still started making
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: my back too sweaty. There was always a beaver repel
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: over this chair I'm leaning on. You could take your
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: two beaver repelts and have a hat made and send
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: it to a person that lives in a cold place.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: You could just have it laying over a piece of furniture,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: and when people come over, you go see that that's
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: a beaver repelt.
• 30:41
  Speaker 8: Well, he's got his wife to contend.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: The biggest problem he's got. The biggest problem he's got
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: is what do you mean your wife won't let you like?
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: What does it? It's not even none of her business. When
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: I'm talking about not asking my wife something for two weeks,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: it's not about something like that.
• 30:59
  Speaker 8: Right. You would just lay it across the couch and
• 31:01
  Speaker 8: be done with it. Oh yeah, I mean what I want?
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: Nothing else is there? You don't want to be in
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: a happy marriage.
• 31:10
  Speaker 8: No, I would do the same thing.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: And it was like I was at my dentist the
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: other day. Yes, she does at my dentist.
• 31:15
  Speaker 8: Dennis, are problems you know?
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: You telling me his wife's out of town. He hung
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: a bunch of taxs during me up in a certain
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: place in the living room. His wife comes back out
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: of town. Doesn't like it, he said, But she can't
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: even climb up there.
• 31:27
  Speaker 10: Dude, I got my wife just built these shelves and
• 31:29
  Speaker 10: there's twenty four nooks. Guess how many nooks I am allocated?
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: Twelve?
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: One, No, twelve, that's what I said.
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: And you're not. No, You're gonna let it slide.
• 31:41
  Speaker 8: I'm trying my best, but dude, all you do is
• 31:45
  Speaker 8: you build your own thing with thirty nooks.
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: Put that want give her one? Yeah.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: Man, there's all kinds of bad stuff about my wife,
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: but the one thing like she never there's certain things
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: she just does not mess with me about. She would
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: never mess with me about something like this at home
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: decor about skulls and all that kind of stuff. Never
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: messes with me about it. That's gift, and like never
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: messes with me about doing stuff in the kitchen. I
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: could take a roadkill moose and put it on that
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: counter and she's not gonna mention it.
• 32:20
  Speaker 8: I feel like unless someone was like a vegan or
• 32:23
  Speaker 8: seriously anti hunting or something like a beaver, pel's not
• 32:26
  Speaker 8: offensive in any way.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: No, my wife is always mad at me, but like
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: she doesn't mess with me about some things. She's perpetually
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: mad about some stuff, but this is just not an
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: issue I have to deal with, so it's hard for
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: me to even empathize.
• 32:41
  Speaker 8: Can we make that a regular segment like things that
• 32:43
  Speaker 8: she's mad at you about?
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: Oh yeh?
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: She can Hosted's your House, Spencer Around Home Decort.
• 32:50
  Speaker 6: I have a pretty good guess by now as to
• 32:52
  Speaker 6: like what my wife would approve of and not approve of,
• 32:54
  Speaker 6: and so I don't get that one wrong too often.
• 32:57
  Speaker 6: But also if there's something I really want and she doesn't,
• 32:59
  Speaker 6: I'll be like, this is really important to me. I
• 33:01
  Speaker 6: really want this buck up in here that I killed. Yeah,
• 33:04
  Speaker 6: And then I that that usually wins it for me,
• 33:07
  Speaker 6: and I think that, But that's also like a powerful
• 33:09
  Speaker 6: sentence to say, like this is important to me, so
• 33:12
  Speaker 6: I don't use that one often either. I think you
• 33:14
  Speaker 6: could tell your wife that these beaver pelts from this
• 33:16
  Speaker 6: estate sale are very important to email her. That might
• 33:20
  Speaker 6: just do it.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: If not, try to get a new one. I'll call
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: him on the news.
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: You didn't even mention getting them turned into a pillow.
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: Those are some of my favorite things.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: Problem, So why didn't I think of that? You're gonna
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: turn this into a win for your wife. I hadn't
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: thought of that. I'm gonna give you a hot tip
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: sewing by so My? Should we even say that? Should
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: we bleeped that out?
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: I'm sure she'd loved the business.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna give you a hot tip sewing by
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: so My.
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: How you spells some ice s O A.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: M I that's your hot tip. Say you want a pillow,
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: leather backed pillow your wife. Your wife will be praising you.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: This is gonna turn all your marriage around. You're gonna
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: become a household hero when.
• 34:16
  Speaker 8: She she'll ask you to start trapping beavers.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: When you get that leather back beaver fur throw pillow
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: in that house, she's not gonna get off it. You're
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: not gonna see her in your bedroom anymore, because she's
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: gonna be sleeping with her head on that couch pillow.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: Onto the news.
• 34:36
  Speaker 8: Earn a buck is back, except now it's earn a
• 34:39
  Speaker 8: second buck.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah that sounds that I like it. That's got more
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: of her, that's got more of a bring.
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 34:45
  Speaker 8: Yeah, it will give you the first one, you gotta
• 34:48
  Speaker 8: earn the second one. In New York State this time
• 34:51
  Speaker 8: h Beginning this year, UH, New York hunters MSS harvest
• 34:56
  Speaker 8: and report an antlerless deer, dough or antlerless buck before
• 35:00
  Speaker 8: becoming eligible to shoot a second antler buck or antler deer.
• 35:06
  Speaker 8: It's a statewide rule. It replaces the previous system that
• 35:09
  Speaker 8: allowed many hunters to harvest two bucks without taking an
• 35:12
  Speaker 8: antler list deer. Every licensed hunter will still receive an
• 35:17
  Speaker 8: antler deer tag, and they'll earn that second antler deer
• 35:21
  Speaker 8: tag only after legally harvesting and reporting an antler list deer.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: Can you back up minute, yep and explain to people,
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: why why is this even a thing?
• 35:33
  Speaker 8: That's that's all next. So New York State's got a
• 35:36
  Speaker 8: million white tails, five hundred thousand hunters. Deer hunters annual
• 35:41
  Speaker 8: harvest is around two and twenty five thousand deer, but
• 35:47
  Speaker 8: only one hundred thousand.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Of those are dose.
• 35:50
  Speaker 8: So in a lot of wildlife management units, the deer
• 35:53
  Speaker 8: population is greatly exceeding objectives. And they're starting to see
• 35:59
  Speaker 8: that excess browsing is creating poor habitat, nutritional stress on
• 36:04
  Speaker 8: the deer that are there, and it slows down forest regeneration.
• 36:08
  Speaker 8: They're also seeing crop damage, more deer vehicle collisions. So
• 36:12
  Speaker 8: the dough harvest is the rate is too low, and
• 36:16
  Speaker 8: in fact, only about thirteen percent of New York deer
• 36:20
  Speaker 8: hunter's harvest one antlerless deer only three percent for harvest
• 36:24
  Speaker 8: and two or more. Really, yeah, I don't so, I
• 36:30
  Speaker 8: don't get it personally, Like it was never a big
• 36:32
  Speaker 8: like we always were all about harvesting. Does you know,
• 36:35
  Speaker 8: I don't know why it's a big deal these days,
• 36:37
  Speaker 8: but de EC Department of Environmental Conservation.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: Can you look that up? A Department of Environmental Conservation.
• 36:46
  Speaker 10: Yeah.
• 36:47
  Speaker 8: So they did like focus groups and surveys and things,
• 36:50
  Speaker 8: and they had input from biologists all over the state.
• 36:55
  Speaker 8: But before they came to this like this idea for
• 36:58
  Speaker 8: harvesting more, does actually something that came out in that
• 37:02
  Speaker 8: same the same surveys. Is a lot of hunters preferred
• 37:05
  Speaker 8: going back to a one buck limit, but uh DC concluded,
• 37:09
  Speaker 8: you know, that's not going to do anything to increase
• 37:12
  Speaker 8: antler list harvest, So there was no reason to do that.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: But at its inception to earn a buck concept was
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: you they were going into to try to control deer numbers,
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: and particularly around c w D. They were going to
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: places where you traditionally would just get a buck tag. Yeah,
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: and they were going to hunters and saying, no longer
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: can you just get a bus. You gotta you have
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: to kill a dough to get a buck, and that
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: wound up being in some areas exceedingly unpopular. Wisconsin did
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: it and undid it.
• 37:44
  Speaker 8: Yeah, we'll get well, I'm gonna get to all that stuff.
• 37:48
  Speaker 8: So the regular season deer tag is now called the
• 37:51
  Speaker 8: antler deer tag. And you and you qualify for that
• 37:54
  Speaker 8: second buck by using you know, just a rifle dough
• 37:57
  Speaker 8: tag of bow, muzzleoader, whatever you get the dough with,
• 38:02
  Speaker 8: it doesn't matter. You'll get that second buck tag after
• 38:05
  Speaker 8: you prove that you've killed that dough. And this was
• 38:09
  Speaker 8: this was some interesting stuff here. The state's gonna implement
• 38:15
  Speaker 8: verification measures to prove to make sure hunters prove that
• 38:19
  Speaker 8: they actually killed the deer, because there was some concern
• 38:22
  Speaker 8: around people just like filling out a tag and saying,
• 38:25
  Speaker 8: you know, I killed one and then they get straight
• 38:28
  Speaker 8: to that second buck. They were never interested in shooting
• 38:31
  Speaker 8: a dough So they're they're gonna do field checks. Hunters
• 38:34
  Speaker 8: may be required to sign an attestation verifying the report
• 38:40
  Speaker 8: they if requested, hunters must provide proof of the harvest
• 38:44
  Speaker 8: within a week, and that could be a photograph, it
• 38:48
  Speaker 8: could be a like a receipt from a deer processor.
• 38:51
  Speaker 8: They're just trying to like dissuade people from fake in it,
• 38:55
  Speaker 8: and if they do get caught fake in it, it's
• 38:57
  Speaker 8: and fifty dollars per fence up to two grand, possibly
• 39:01
  Speaker 8: one year in jail.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: I imagine that. What are you in for? Yeah, but
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: this is what do you I'm in for? Murder? What
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: are you in for? It's like, well, you know the.
• 39:10
  Speaker 8: Program, Yeah, Like New York's going big on proving this.
• 39:16
  Speaker 8: Michigan also just like they just came out with a
• 39:20
  Speaker 8: new proposal for a similar earn a second buck program.
• 39:25
  Speaker 8: They're they're looking to do a pilot program in five
• 39:27
  Speaker 8: counties in southern Michigan. And their proof is just like
• 39:31
  Speaker 8: the tag. They're just like we kind of looked at
• 39:34
  Speaker 8: proving it all these different ways. It was too expensive,
• 39:37
  Speaker 8: so a tag's good enough. So Michigan's going a much
• 39:41
  Speaker 8: different direction.
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: Tag as in I bought a tag.
• 39:44
  Speaker 8: No like you like like you know, they just looked
• 39:49
  Speaker 8: at like dealing with photos and and like game check
• 39:54
  Speaker 8: stations all that, and it was just too much more.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: But that was the that was the accusation I heard
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: in Wisconsin. When Wisconsin did earn a buck. I would
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: hear from guys saying that a group of guys that
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: get a dough and everybody'd use it right, Yeah, for
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: sure to go get their buck.
• 40:09
  Speaker 8: Take now like this, like white tail populations are like
• 40:14
  Speaker 8: going through the roof in a lot of places. They're
• 40:16
  Speaker 8: like Steve mentions, there's concerns with CWD, but still like
• 40:20
  Speaker 8: it's it hasn't This program has not been popular in
• 40:25
  Speaker 8: the past, Like hunters feel like it delays their opportunity
• 40:29
  Speaker 8: to kill a buck. If you're a hunter who can
• 40:31
  Speaker 8: only you know, maybe hunt one day on the weekend
• 40:34
  Speaker 8: or two days on the weekend. It's it's like limited
• 40:36
  Speaker 8: time trophy. Hunters that aren't interested in shooting dose at
• 40:41
  Speaker 8: all aren't interested in it. And this, this last one
• 40:45
  Speaker 8: makes some sense because the regulation can tend to treat
• 40:49
  Speaker 8: low density and high density deer areas of the same.
• 40:53
  Speaker 8: For example, in New York, the Northern Zone the Adirondacks, Like,
• 40:57
  Speaker 8: that's an area with really low deer density, So you
• 41:02
  Speaker 8: know it's gonna make it harder to get that dough
• 41:05
  Speaker 8: and then get that second buck. The DC's DC says
• 41:10
  Speaker 8: it's to incentivedvise, not punish hunters. If they do want
• 41:13
  Speaker 8: a second buck, they can travel to one of the
• 41:16
  Speaker 8: wildlife management units where there's a lot of dos and
• 41:20
  Speaker 8: do it that way. For those hunters that like don't
• 41:25
  Speaker 8: like it, maybe question whether it works, Like there's proof
• 41:28
  Speaker 8: that it does work. You control populations by shooting dos.
• 41:32
  Speaker 8: Wisconsint pioneered the Earner Buck program in the late in
• 41:36
  Speaker 8: the nineteen nineties.
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: It ran a.
• 41:39
  Speaker 8: Little more than a decade before it got shut down
• 41:43
  Speaker 8: just because of a hunter dissatisfaction. Dissatisfaction with the program,
• 41:48
  Speaker 8: but it increased dough harvest rates by twenty to forty percent,
• 41:51
  Speaker 8: reduced deer densities and it helped improve forest regeneration the
• 41:58
  Speaker 8: wildlife management in Wisconsintly, they concluded it was like a
• 42:02
  Speaker 8: very successful program, but it's just like the hunters didn't
• 42:06
  Speaker 8: like it. Doug Dernill tell you it is the most
• 42:08
  Speaker 8: effective white tail heard management strategy ever created. There's a
• 42:13
  Speaker 8: few other states that have experimented with it, not like
• 42:16
  Speaker 8: on a state wide level. Iowa and some other Midwestern
• 42:19
  Speaker 8: states have run like localized earn a buck regulations with
• 42:24
  Speaker 8: the same results like higher dough harvest and faster population reductions.
• 42:29
  Speaker 8: So like it does work. We'll see if the New
• 42:32
  Speaker 8: York hunters embrace it or not. I'm not sure how
• 42:36
  Speaker 8: it's going to go. Like I'm all for it, but
• 42:38
  Speaker 8: I've never like really done it or experienced it.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: YEP. I would say, if you were a state and
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: you had a rigid you like in a rigid one
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: buck state. Yeah, okay, we're in a like we live
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: in a one buck state. Rigidly one buck.
• 42:52
  Speaker 6: In New York is a two buck state. They're not
• 42:54
  Speaker 6: going from one to two. I'm not saying it too.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: I'm saying but let's say Pennsylvania two bucks state or
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: a one buck state, ye. I think the way to
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: do it is you got to you'd be like, let's
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: say you're a one buck state. You say, you still
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: get your one buck same as normal. You got to
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: kill two does and then you earn an unprecedented yeah,
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: second buck opportunity. An opportunity that would be people feel
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: like they're getting more, not like they got to jump
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: through hoops to get what they've always had, because that's
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: when you wind up with discontent. Yeah.
• 43:31
  Speaker 8: But I mean it's like falling dough harvest is like
• 43:35
  Speaker 8: a problem all over the country.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: These yes, people don't because people are pains these they
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: don't want to eat deer meat. The Yeah, here's the
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: like in twenty years, this has become more clear. Maybe
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: to be fifty years have become more clear. Of the
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: two conversations, there's two conversations happening about deer white tail
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: deer in America. Conversation one, there's too many white tail
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: deer over vast of the range. There's too many white
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: tail deer by someone's measure, yep, okay, landscaping tics, agriculture,
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: highway collisions. By someone's measure, there's too many deer. The
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: other major conversation happening around whitetail deer in America is
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: that we have that chronic wasting disease is spreading, and
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: ultimately chronic wasting disease is going to have population level impacts.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: Some people projected it's going to have catastrophic population level impact.
• 44:30
  Speaker 8: And they're seeing falling populations in places already.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: I know, but these two stories, you're right, well, yes,
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: you can argue it. Yeah, these two stories at some
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: point are going to need to reconcile with each other. Yeah,
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: these two narratives are not in sync. Nope, And like
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: and I don't know, is it twenty years? Is the
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: fifty years when it becomes clear where one of the
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: narratives was wrong or or something, or they come together
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, we're talking about there are
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: no deer anymore.
• 45:07
  Speaker 8: Yeah, hopefully it's not that. Hopefully it's like a management
• 45:10
  Speaker 8: strategy that everyone agrees works. You know, like here in
• 45:14
  Speaker 8: Montana they have special CWD hunts, like late in the
• 45:18
  Speaker 8: season where it's you know, he doesn't matter if you've
• 45:21
  Speaker 8: already shot a buck. You can get these CWD tags
• 45:23
  Speaker 8: and go in and kill a buck or a doe.
• 45:26
  Speaker 8: You just got to be prepared to deal with a
• 45:28
  Speaker 8: deer that might be CWD positive.
• 45:31
  Speaker 10: In the same season, I hunted two different earn a
• 45:34
  Speaker 10: buck programs in two different states. One was you could
• 45:39
  Speaker 10: shoot a buck. It was exactly like this, you could
• 45:41
  Speaker 10: shoot a buck and then you had to shoot a
• 45:43
  Speaker 10: doe in order to shoot a second buck. And the
• 45:45
  Speaker 10: other one you had to shoot a dough before you
• 45:47
  Speaker 10: were allowed to shoot your one buck.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: I shot.
• 45:52
  Speaker 10: I was way more motivated to go out and kill
• 45:55
  Speaker 10: that first dough I traveled to. I traveled probably eight
• 45:58
  Speaker 10: hours to go hunt over a Halloween weekend, shoot a dough,
• 46:01
  Speaker 10: came back home, then went two weeks later to shoot
• 46:04
  Speaker 10: a buck. The other program, where it was shoot a buck,
• 46:07
  Speaker 10: shoot a dose, shoot a second buck, was my home state.
• 46:10
  Speaker 10: I shot a buck peak Rut and I was like, cool,
• 46:13
  Speaker 10: I'm good. I didn't go out and shoot another dough
• 46:15
  Speaker 10: and I wanted to. It's not like I was like, oh,
• 46:17
  Speaker 10: screw these guys. I wanted to go shoot out another dough.
• 46:19
  Speaker 10: It was not a high enough priority for me to
• 46:21
  Speaker 10: get out there and do it.
• 46:22
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I don't get the like not wanting to go
• 46:25
  Speaker 8: hunt and shoot a deer and eat a deer like
• 46:27
  Speaker 8: you're eat something you're hunting too and learning.
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: But I still here.
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: There's still people out there, and it might have something
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: to do with just the you know, high density, low
• 46:38
  Speaker 4: density areas. But there's people that have memories of years
• 46:44
  Speaker 4: where there were more deer in their area and they
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: long for those times when they would see twenty deer
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: a sit instead of just two.
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: And well, I.
• 46:53
  Speaker 8: Mean that was me when I was a kid. We'd
• 46:55
  Speaker 8: see forty deer and one was a spike.
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but people miss those days, you know, they like
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: target rich environment.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, yeah, all right, moving on to the to
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: the Wild Buffalo Reporting Desk story about American Prairie. Some
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: of you might know it as American Prairie Reserve. It's
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: now American Prairie for reference sake, if you want to
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: go back into our library. We recently did an episode
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: with the CEO of American Prairie about their mission. To
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: summarize real quick before you get into the nitty gritty
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: on this one, American Prairie is a is a conservation
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: land preservation organization that operates out of north central Montana.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: Their objective is to buy land on the open market. Okay,
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: willing seller willing buyer. They just bid and buy land
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: on the open market and then try to restore it
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: to you know, as pristine as possible of a landscape.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: But they own outright deeded land. They own about one
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: hundred and sixty seven thousand acres of deeded land. They
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: sit on grazing leases. They sit on more grazing lease
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: land than they sit on deeded land. So to the
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: tune of it, they have grazing rights either because they
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: own it or they lease it on about a half
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: million acres. Okay, I'm throwing out some big numbers, and
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: some people maybe not be able to picture this. All right.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: America Prairie again, they own one hundred and sixty seven
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: thousand acres, all right, The biggest ranch in the state
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: of Montana, four hundred thousand acres, is owned by Rupert Murdoch.
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: Ap America Prairie owns more acres than Ted Turner's Flying
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: d So this is a big ranch. Very controversial. I'll
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: get into that in a minute, but I'm on before
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: saying that it's very controversial, I'm clarify all of that
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: land is all public. So the one hundred and sixty
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: seven thousand acres they own is open to the public.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: You can walk across it, you can walk your dog
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: on it, you can go around looking around. The deed
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: of land is state and federal public land. So the
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: fact that they least grazing rights on it does not
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: make it that you can't hunt it. It's totally open
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: in public. They just have the right to run cattle,
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: buffalo whatever, to graze the grass, all right. Part of
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: the controversy of AP, there's a rallying cry to the
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: opposition to AP, which is save the cowboys, Stop American prairie.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: It's this idea that if you buy up ranch land
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: and just use it for wildlife, you are creating an
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: existential threat to the American cowboy because he's supposed to
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: be out rope and cattle, and all of a sudden,
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: now it's just deer and elk.
• 49:51
  Speaker 6: It's a popular sign, you see, the way you'd see
• 49:53
  Speaker 6: a politician sign.
• 49:56
  Speaker 8: And I'll point out that on a lot of AP's
• 49:58
  Speaker 8: property there's till graising cattle.
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: That a lot of.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: Them, I'll point out too. AP owns, as I going
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: to get into, they own about nine hundred and seventy
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: buffalo there are two million cattle in Montana, So the
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: existential threat that these animals provide is a little bit.
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: You gotta take it with you know, you gotta think
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: of the numbers here. Okay. I find American Prairie to
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: be controversial. Why do I think they're controversial? My concern
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: with American Prairie, as I've told everybody I know that
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: works there or runs the place, or is on the board,
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: my concern is that their commitment to public hunting is tepid.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: And when I put that in my notes, where I
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: don't think anyone's ever said the word tep it on
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: this show, I don't recall means lukewarm.
• 50:46
  Speaker 8: I was just gonna say, I'm concerns.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: That their commitment to public hunting is lukewarm.
• 50:51
  Speaker 6: What do they say to you?
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: They say, of course not, we have this and this
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: and this, but they put restrictions. They put hunting restrictions
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: above and beyond what the state puts, and they basically
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: not basically they put a mildier hunting moratorium on their land,
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: but the state is not eye to eye on that. Right.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: And then even like you go ask like deer researchers,
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: like a limited buck harvest, limited meal. Your buck harvest
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: has zero impact a mild your populations, right, it doesn't matter.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: But and that's what it would be. So that's that's
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: why they're controversial to me. But I'll try to look
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: at things. In this case, I look at the good
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: and the bad. This is just the story of what's
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: going on.
• 51:35
  Speaker 6: On the hunting thing. Like I would point out that
• 51:37
  Speaker 6: Montana is block management, which is like private land open
• 51:40
  Speaker 6: to public. It's not uncommon for those pieces to be
• 51:43
  Speaker 6: open to hunting, but have restrictions, right, Like you can't
• 51:46
  Speaker 6: kill an elk here, correct, you can't duck hunt. They're right,
• 51:49
  Speaker 6: you can't drive these roads, so like we see that
• 51:52
  Speaker 6: in other parts of this yet. But they have a
• 51:53
  Speaker 6: lot of acreage. Again, I would say this, I did
• 51:57
  Speaker 6: say this. I would say this with them sitting right
• 51:58
  Speaker 6: here because I'm like sympathetic to the mission.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: I support the buffalo part of the mission. I think
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: that they would be doing themselves a strategic favor by
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: being more open, putting, more lands open to hunting, less restrictions,
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: more agage of hunting, because you're going to create all
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: the hunters are going to be your allies. But instead
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: you're creating an impression in people's minds. They don't want
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: me around, and if they buy up more land, it's
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: more land that I'm not welcome on. It's just it's
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: this is way beyond what I want to talk about.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: What I want to talk about here is politics. Their buffalo.
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: They run their buffalo as was called a conservation herd.
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: It's not a production herd. They're not running buffalo in
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: order to produce highe leather meat, right, They're running it
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: as a restoration project.
• 52:49
  Speaker 8: It's the native They're categorized as livestock, aren't they.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: They have to be in this state. Okay, these are
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: ear tagged counted animals, not because they necessarily want them
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: to be, but they're not regard even though they're a
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: native land mammal, they're not regarded as wildlife in Montana.
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: They have to be regarded as livestock. So yes, out
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: of necessity they have to like count them, manage them
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: like livestock. But the objective is this is the dominant
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: native land mammal on that landscape historically, and they're trying
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: to put them back on the landscape. So they're doing
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: this by buying ranchland and letting the buffalo roam on it.
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: And they're doing it by doing leases, paying the lease fees,
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: and letting their buffalo run on state and federal grazing leases.
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: All right, what's a grazing lease. Well, a grazing lease
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: is the West is full of it. A grazing lease
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: is you got a chunk of land. Let's say it.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: Let's just say for easy's sake, it's a thousand acres
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: you strike a deal with if it's Bureau of Land Management,
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: federally managed public land, Bureau of Land Management, they open
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: up a grazing lease for a thousand acres, they will
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: tell you you can graze blank number, blank cowcaff pairs
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: for blank months. And that's how it's like measured in
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: animal units.
• 54:14
  Speaker 6: And if you're in a very lush place, that'll be
• 54:16
  Speaker 6: a high number, yep. And if you're in the bad
• 54:18
  Speaker 6: lands where it's all brown for you know, ten months
• 54:20
  Speaker 6: of the year, it's going to be a really low number.
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: Exactly. It's tweaked according to an assessment of the productivity
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: of the land. And you get a deal, you sign
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: a lease, you pay a fee. American Prairie has This
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: is a quote from AP. There's pointing this out in
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: terms of this grazing lease debate that I'm going to
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: explain as American Prairie says, America Prairie has lawfully grazed
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: bison on b LM lands for more than twenty years,
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: complying with every rule, regulation, and permit requirement. There have
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: been no grazing violations, and the administrative record contains objective
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: evidence showing that range land conditions have improved over the
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: last two decades with bison on the landscape. However, right now,
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: after twenty years, for reasons I'll get into the state
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: of Montana, and the Feds are tag teaming American Prairie.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: They're coming at American Prairie on state leases. They're coming
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: at American Prairie on federal leases. Under the direction of
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: Secretary of Interior Bergham, the Department of Interior is pulling
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: American Prairie's federal leases. That's one fight. It warrants a
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: ton of discussion. But since this is a news show,
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: the news right now in this moment is about the
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: state leases that American Prairie has. Okay, America Prairie is
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: aiming to graze bison on five thousand acres of lands
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: owned by the State of Montana. They already have the permit,
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: they're just looking to put the animals out there. The
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: state manages one point four million acres of grazing leases.
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: So to put this another way, America Prairie is asking
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: to graze buffalo on point zero one percent of the
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: state's grazing acreage a tenth of a percent, okay. In
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: seeking permission from the state to do this, the state
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: slow walked them for seven years, would not process the request. Eventually,
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: the state Supreme Court steps in and says, that's just
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: bad government. You gotta process their request. So what happens
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: now The state now is saying we're not going to
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: let permits out to people that want to graze buffalo
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: and a conservation herd. One of the perspectives on this
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: is a stock grower, a stock grower's organization opposed to
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: them putting buffalo out a discretion. A discussion is that
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: they're saying grazing leases were intended for what they call
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: production livestock grazing, meaning grazing leases were intended to be
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: used to produce a food product, and if you have
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: a conservation herds, that's outside of the intention of grazing leases. However,
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: this intention was never adequately codified by law. It's an
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: interpretation of past intention. So the state fought them by
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: just slow walking their permits. Okay, while all this is
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: going on, they've had all these different debates. At one
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: point the state says, well, we can't do it right
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: now because our state land order borders BLM land and
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: we need to hear from the BLM what they think
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: about these dastardly buffalo grazing BLM land. BLM comes back
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: at the time. They come back and says, well, nothing
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: bad happens. It's kind of a non issue. So rather
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: than the state than saying, okay, we've heard from the BLM,
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: they say it's not a problem. We'll accept that. No,
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: they go, we're going to appeal your decision. That is
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: not a big problem. Then the state gets into this
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: kind of goofy debate. They start obfuscating what their objectives are.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: They get into this goofy debate about whether one bison
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: actually equals one cow. Okay, Now, Montana State University has
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: research suggesting that you can few there an equivalent. See
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: if you put a buffalo onto grass it's the same
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: as putting a cow onto grass, okay. And since the
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: state sets the stocking ray shows anyways, they can say
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: how many are permitted to be out there, but that's
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: not what they're after. They just don't want them out there.
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: And then they put out this thing like, hey, we're
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: not trying to obstruct buffalo being on the ground. It's
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: just we're just trying to protect the grasslands. And it
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: kind of gets in this thing like omet so you're
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: trying to prevent the West from turning back into that
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: real dump that it was back when thirty million buffalo
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: were grazing around and vast herds of elk occupied the
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: American Great Plains, and like Lewis and Clark were staggered
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: by the abundance of wildlife, and whole cultures were existing
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: off of this wildlife for ten thousand years. Like, let's
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: not revisit that shit show, right, that's the argument. Finally,
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: the Supreme Court says, you gotta deal with these people's permit.
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: So then the State Land Board comes and directs the
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: Montana Department of Natural Resources and Conservation saying, don't renew
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: buffalo leases, don't give out buffalo leases. Just to they
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: change the rules. Okay, they're saying it has to be
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: production agriculture. So America Prairie takes them to court and
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: a judge just puts in an injunction. No, you think
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: I forgot to mention. Meanwhile, America Prairie canceled all their
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: public hunts. They do public raffle hunts. They had to
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: cancel all their hunts because of this whole shit show
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: going on.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: For bison.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: They canceled their public buffalo hunts. They do buffalo hunts
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: for veterans. They canceled it because of all this uncertainty
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: about their hurt. They want an injunction, but to me,
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: it feels very tenuous. Their argument is that the that
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: the Land Board and the d d NRC didn't do
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: the normal rule making process before changing the rule. So
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: we're saying you didn't you know, you didn't open it
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: up for public content and all that, And so the
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: judge put an injunction and says they don't need to
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: clear their animals out yet. It's a it's a very
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: minor victory. But like I said, it has a very tenuous,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: a very tenuous feel to me. It is not like
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: a conclusive finding. It's just an injunction on something while
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: something else gets sorted out. The federal land thing which
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: still lingers. That all hinges on the intent and definition
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: of something called the Tailor Grazing Act. But again, the
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: Federal BLM part of this is a whole other story.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: The state and the Feds are tag team and this
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: organization around their buffalo herd. What's funny about this, the
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: irony of this is a lot of this is taking
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: place against the backdrop of all this hoopla about the
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library opening up in Medora, North Dakota,
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: and they tie the opening of the library for the
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: July fourth celebrations of our two hundred and fiftieth anniversary.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: All these political figures converge on North Dakota for the
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: opening of the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library over July for
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: a weekend because the political figures all want to align
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: themselves with the vision and mission of President Theodore Roosevelt.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: What is that legacy? Tr is a It's like TR
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: just is a conservation president people that when people think
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: of tr today, they don't think, they don't think about
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: him storming San Juan Hill. They don't think about him
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: being an advocate of Panama Canal. He's a conservation president.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: I'm on the board of the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: When people hear that, they don't think I'm talking about
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: conserving Panama. The guy is a conservation president.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 6: The conservation president.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: The just let me do it like a little year
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: by year run through on an issue. In December nineteen
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: oh four, President Roosevelt urged Congress to authorize that the
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: government set aside portions of forest reserves as refuges for bison.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: Nineteen oh five, in his annual Message to Congress, Theodore
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: Roosevelt described the buffalo as the most characteristic animal of
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: the Western plains and addressed the importance of the remaining
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: small herds. He also acknowledged the economic advantages associated with
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: the value of the buffalo herd. He recognized Wichita Reserve
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: in Oklahoma as a forest reserve that could aid in
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: buffalo preservation. The next year, he becomes the honorary president
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: of the American Bison Society. The next year, we're now
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: in nineteen oh six, Rosevel we congratulated Senator John F.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: Lacey of the of Lacy Act, Infamacy of Lacy Act
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: Fame not Infamous Fame congratulated Lacey forgetting the Senate Committee
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: on Agriculture to order an amendment to an appropriation bill
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: that approved money for the Wichita Reserve, which would house Buffalo.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: The next year, nineteen oh seven, Roosevelt supported reintroductions of
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: Buffalo win Cave National Park the National Bison Range Wichita
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: Mountain Reserve. The next year, nineteen oh eight, the American
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: Bison Society, of which Theodore Roosevelt is the honorary president,
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: successfully petitioned petitioned Congress to pass a bill that would
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: establish a permanent bison range in Montana. So there's nineteen
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: o four, nineteen oh five, nineteen oh six, nineteen oh seven,
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: nineteen oh eight. I could go on and on. So
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: when these people are coming there and like and like
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: tying themselves to the legacy of Theodore Roosevelt at the
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: same time trying to attack the restoration of the animal,
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: like what are you tying yourself to? It's because so
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: much stuff, so much stuff is just like perform You
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: could get the same people in the same room and
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: they acting like they're talking about the same thing, but
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: they're not talking about the same thing, Like, what are
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: they talking about?
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 8: It looks good to stand in front of a portrait
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 8: of tr.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: That's what I always say. Every politician in America would
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: like to be favorably compared to Theodore Roosevelt. But what
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: the guy wanted is so damn clear. Yep, And they don't.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: It's just maddening. Or are you yannie?
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 4: He's kind of an environmentalist by today's terms. Oh, he
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 4: was a radical radical.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: That's the other thing people don't realize is how much
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: people hated that guy for doing all this stuff. They
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: hated him.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 6: Steve would hate him because he liked national parks so much. Yes, yes,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 6: you'd have disagreed with him back the guy.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: That shot at him had that little booklet in his chest.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 3: He likes parks.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: No, I'm joking, Yeah, I would disagree with my on Matt.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: I would have done a new show about that. I've
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: been like, Teddy, you're misguided.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 6: You know, the like journey for that. It was just
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 6: folded up speech that saved his life when he was shot.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 6: It was it was said that that can trace all
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 6: the way back to his early years when he was
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 6: a president and he was really into boxing, to the
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 6: point where those in his cabinet where like, Teddy, you
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 6: can't be boxing with the interns anymore. Like, it's just
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 6: a bad look when you show up in some public
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 6: space and you've got a black eye. So he'd like
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 6: kind of started secretly boxing with people in his universe.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: One and ran with that. But he wasn't boxing.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 6: Yes, yeah, othery're bad physical contact. Uh, Teddy gets lit up.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 6: One day, he gets knocked in the head. That messes
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 6: with his vision. He has to start wearing glasses. So
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 6: when he goes to give speeches, now the font is
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 6: so big that he like has to have more paper
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 6: physically to do his speeches. So for that speech, he
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 6: had a lot more pieces of paper. It was wadded
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 6: up in his pocket where he was shot. And so
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 6: like you can go back and say his little underground
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 6: boxing ring saved his life because he had more paper
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 6: in his pocket.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: That's the honest.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 8: Do you do a thing called mediator experiments.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great idea. Yeah, he finished his speech, but he.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 9: Did put a speech in your pocket. Start cutting loose
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 9: at you speech. Yeah, it was bad ass. It was
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 9: It was bad ass that Trump had to wear with
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 9: all the raises fists. But imagine how bad ass it
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 9: was to finish your speech.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, after a dude shot at you.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 6: Teddy definitely knew that. He's like, oh, look at all
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 6: the points I'm going to win here by doing this
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 6: speech after just getting shot.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 4: We have to really do some historical digging on you know,
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 4: like powder loads bullet. Yeah, you know, because you can't
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 4: nice acubond and try.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: A couple of years ago, there was a story. I
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: think it was a boyfriend girlfriend. We're messing around with that,
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: and I think one of them killed the other one
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: holding books up.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 6: We just used like these bean backgrounds shooting books.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about Maine.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll get into it.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: Not fat but because I'm not gonna talk about that.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, here's a here's a conservation win story.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 3: Inside Climate News.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 4: I need to get since we're doing the show all
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 4: the time, I got to get up on my subscriptions.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 4: You boys must have a lot of subscriptions to all
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 4: these different news uh sources?
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 3: Is that right?
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: It's got a lot of people that send me stuff.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 4: I need more of those people arger cover a couple
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 4: of them, just a couple. Inside Climate News reported that
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 4: because of damn removal. Main's alewives are making a significant comeback,
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 4: And like me twenty four hours ago, you might be like,
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 4: what's an alewife?
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: Which is really.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: Yanni? You're from Michigan. How could you not know what?
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: How did you pronounce it alewives? Al wives?
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 4: Okay, I thought you said something different early earlier. Well,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 4: I'll get to why I should know about it. As
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 4: a michigander, It's an anadromous herring averaging twelve inches but
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 4: can be as big as sixteen. Not considered a game fish,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 4: although some folks smoke them and eat them. Ale wives
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 4: are most famous. This is why I should be embarrassed
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 4: as a michigander, for.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: You embarrassed for not knowing this.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 4: The welland canal to bypass Niagara Falls and invade the
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 4: Great Lakes, causing the extension extinction of several Cisco species.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 4: They've also had negative impacts on yellow perch and whitefish
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 4: populations in the Great Lakes. And how they do that
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 4: is that they either outcompete them for the the zoap plankton,
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 4: or they eat the fry of the yellow perch and
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 4: cod and other fish like that. But this isn't about
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 4: how they got famous. Maybe they're gonna get famous because
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 4: of this conservation when because for their native range, which
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 4: is like South Carolina up to Nova Scotia and the
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 4: western Atlantic, they are not doing as well.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: Do you have a picture of that al Wi?
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: I just had it on the lakes nearly that big?
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 3: What's that?
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: The Great Lakes Ones were small?
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Oh they were. Yeah.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 8: I think it's like a food thing, you know, plankton, Yeah, stuff.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: Like that went on twelve inches man.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 6: And those those Great Lakes one they do not get
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 6: back to the ocean, right, they're just staying there.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 4: No, yeah, yeah, there's both populations that just are fresh
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 4: water and then the saltwater.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: They exploded there to the point where they would like there.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: How many would die during temperature changes that that beaches
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: would be uninhappy, like people would go to the beat.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 8: Listen to this old time Old time Southsiders still call
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 8: the little tenants hearings all wives. For those summer days
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 8: in nineteen sixty seven when a billion pounds of the
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 8: dead fish wash up ashore beach goers.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 4: You know, lots of them. Sounds stinky. Why are alwives
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 4: al wives important?
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 3: Or what do they do with them?
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 4: I guess the most common use, which was interesting, I thought,
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 4: is for bait for lobster fishing. Okay, that's why people
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 4: are like to commercially harvest them. Like I said earlier,
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 4: people do smoke them for human consumption. But really, most importantly,
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 4: I think for all all of us and the stories
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 4: that it's a keystone species that provides food, you know,
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 4: all along through the food chain, and you know it
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 4: provides food for the bigger fish that we like to catch,
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 4: like stripe, bass and cod.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 3: Did you change my font size, Nate? I don't think so.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 3: Oh gosh, I'm like Teddy Man. I can't. I can't
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 3: be having this smaller fond size.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: I need.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 3: I need my readers. Now you can you can zoom
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 3: in on your own. I know, I know.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 8: This is all staying in Well, your honest is doing that.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 8: You know why they're called ale wives?
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 4: Yes, well they have are They got a big old
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 4: belly on them and so they were, uh they're they
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 4: were compared to an ale wife, which is basically a
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 4: which is a.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: Portly like a lady drinking too much beer.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 4: No one that one that would have one that would
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 4: run a a ale. I don't know what you call.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 6: It's a bartender at a tavern.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 3: Well, no more than that. Back in the I can
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 3: go way way deep.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: The tavern gave you a little belly. You don't say,
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: I'm asking.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I would think so anybody was around.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 4: So this goes so far back. This goes like the
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 4: first mention of al wife. I think was like thirteen
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 4: hundred something. Back when ale was more were commonly consumed
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 4: than water in a lot of places because it was
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 4: safer to drink it.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, people consume like a leader a day on average.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: Right, were scared. The Pilgrims were scared of American water.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: They drank ale for like.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 4: Every one hundred and forty people. You had to have
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 4: a place that made ale. Back then, it was a
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 4: It was a thing that women did.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: And if a dude owned that and his wife worked there, no, no, no,
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: he would develop a beer belly.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 3: That's the thing.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 4: It was run by women, and they were called ale wives,
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 4: and they tended to be rotund.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 6: Holy man, I don't know, that's tough name nomenclature.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, huge Someday they'll get around to change in that one.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 3: Man, huge conservation Betsy Ross.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: Or they'll call them like the who's the suffrage person.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 10: On the oh Anthony, they'll call him like the Susan
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 10: being Anthony because they'll rebrand them because.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 4: I think go on unprecedented population recovery. The number of
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 4: migraine fish in Benton, Maine jumped from fewer than eight
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 4: hundred eight thirty five years ago, yes, to nine million
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 4: last year.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 3: That's pretty sweet.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: And that's just their math. I try to figure out
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: what percent increase that was when.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 8: They were real low like that they were just cut
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 8: off from their spawning grounds by dams.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 4: Yes, exactly, and so they've done all kinds of things
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 4: to help them get back up in there, which I'll
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 4: tell you about in just a second. Like I was saying,
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 4: it brings, you know, nutrients up into the mainland, kind
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 4: of like salmon in Alaska, right, these alewives bring It's
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 4: a vital food source for eagles, seals, otters, and uh yeah,
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 4: just makes the place nutrient rich.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: Want me to hit you with something, please. It's a
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: one million, one hundred and twenty four thousand, nine hundred
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: percent increase, so base that in my head. It's a lot.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 6: It's like going from the people in these buildings connected
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 6: to new York City.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 4: Starting in the seventeen hundreds, the construction of industrial dams
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 4: blocked the fish from swimming upstream to spawned, trapping them
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 4: downstream and causing populations to plummet. Intensive commercial fishing and
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 4: mid twentieth century farther decimated populations, and by nineteen ninety
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 4: four harvests collapsed to a fraction of their historical highs,
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 4: where the federal commercial fishing The FEDS basically put a
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 4: moratorium on fishing form in twenty twelve. So the population
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 4: rebound is driven by removing aging dams or building bypass systems.
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 4: The systems that they do are they do a bunch
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 4: of different things. One is high tech fish elevators were
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 4: literally they basically have just like a channel that kind
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 4: of comes out off the dam and then at the
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 4: end of it there's a bucket and when that bucket
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 4: goes down into the water, it creates a current as
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 4: you can imagine that, it sucks it in and those
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 4: al wives are literally attracted to it and they swim
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 4: right in there. The bucket picks them up, puts them
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 4: into the raceway, and then on they go. Then they
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 4: also do on smaller creeks, they basically just build little
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 4: you know steps, Yeah, where a fish can just jump
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 4: up and go up through the rocks and get on
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 4: up there.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 3: Let's see.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 4: Twenty twenty five, Maine saw a booming migration of over
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 4: twenty million ale wives. Unfortunately, in contrast, states south of
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 4: Maine continue to experience declining or depleted populations. Internet says
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 4: likely due to warming oceans and different ocean fishing pressures.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 4: Maine is one of only five states with federal approval
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 4: for sustainable river herring fisheries, and as of last year,
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 4: five main municipalities have regained the right to harvest locally
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 4: under strict state limits.
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 3: They actually have to right now.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 4: A lot of people don't like this, but right now
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 4: they have to monitor their fish returns for ten years
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 4: and produce that they have the stocks in these ponds
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 4: where where they do the reproduction like an average return
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 4: over Yeah, until they can start a commercial harvest. My
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 4: big takeaway here was I just thought it was so cool.
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 4: We've heard this over and over on these shows that
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 4: we do, and we hear I think it was. We
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 4: recently had some tribal members from the Northwest on They
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 4: just talked about the wonder that you can achieve from
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 4: nature when you see like I think we were talking
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 4: about the size of some giant chinooks. That was the
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 4: conversation we were having, and I think the same thing here.
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 4: There was a lot of locals that were interviewed that
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 4: can remember like seeing some of these fish swimming up
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 4: you know, these small creeks and Maine as kids, and
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 4: then they went through a period where there were literally
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 4: none and they have you know, put their own hard
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 4: work effort into it, and now they're seeing them return
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 4: and it's pretty cool. And now they're getting to pass
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 4: that on to the next generation. And people just say
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 4: it's like it's an amazing thing to stand there at
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 4: a small oat creek and literally see so many fish
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 4: swinging along where you can just stick your hand in
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 4: and fishfield.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: The points of the resiliency of my nature, if you like,
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: give it room to do what it needs to do.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 8: Yeah, there's something about Maine though, like that state compared
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 8: to a lot of other states when it comes to
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 8: knocking down dams, like they're all about it. I feel
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 8: like they they tend to do it at a higher
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 8: rate than a lot about it.
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 4: Yes, I was talking about this on a run recently
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 4: with the fella and I was telling them I was
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 4: researching for today, and he was saying that this is
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 4: a big thing topic in northern Michigan. We're gonna have
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 4: to probably discuss that at some point. Yeah, because there's
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 4: a lot of people that are enjoying like the pontoon
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 4: boat lake life culture. And when you take that dam out,
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 4: that little reservoir you've been pumping around on might not
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 4: be around anymore. And it's a it's a trick right
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 4: now to try to sell people on saying, hey, the
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 4: river version of this might be as good or better
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 4: than the sure than the reservoir.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. We used to pound salmon and steelhead where they'd
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: all get backed up on the sixth Street damn on
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: the Grand River, And if that wasn't there, it'd be great,
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: But then everybody'd have to figure out how to catch
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: them when they're not on a roadblock.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, did we cover that?
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 4: How they're putting the rocks back in in Grand Rapids
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 4: to put the rapids the rapids back in Grand Rapids?
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: Are they tearing the dams out? Yeah? Oh good for them?
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: Pretty cool.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 6: Wales Wales whale strandings have been tracked for over fifty
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 6: years in Washington. The record for grey whales was set
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 6: in twenty nineteen when thirty four of them washed up dead.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 6: We are only halfway through twenty twenty six and we
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 6: already have thirty of them this year. So the record
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 6: is thirty four. Six months in we have thirty of
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 6: them this year. I talked to John Callum Bokitis, he's
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 6: the founder of the Cascadia Research Collective in Washington, to
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 6: find out why. First, I asked him about twenty nineteen,
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 6: what caused that mass mortality and how did biologists react.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 6: Then John said that the twenty nineteen hevelt felt normal
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 6: and it really didn't raise any cause for alarm. Biologists
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 6: had seen this before in ninety nine, in nineteen ninety
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 6: and in all three of those cases nineteen ninety, nineteen
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 6: ninety nine, twenty nineteen, they felt as though grey whales
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 6: had approached their global carrying capacity and so this was
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 6: just a natural cycle where they, you know, self reduced.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 6: And the biologists just said, like, this is what a
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 6: grey whale boom and bus cycle is.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: Can I can I comment on your graph? He's got
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: a graph up. One line is strandings. Is that stranding.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 6: Nope, the global population.
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: I read it wrong. Never mind, Sorry, we've got.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 6: A chart looking at the global population and the calf recruitment.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 6: Oh but anyway, he said in nineteen ninety, nineteen ninety nine,
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 6: twenty nineteen, they're like, this is actually a good thing.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 6: You know, the oceans have plenty of gray whales and
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 6: so they're just like naturally having some reduction. As for
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 6: twenty twenty six, biologists don't think this is a normal
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 6: mortality event like the other ones.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: Sixteen to the.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 6: Whales that have had knee cropsies done, all sixteen were
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 6: determined to be malnourished, and of those sixteen, ten of
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 6: them had blunt force trauma from vessel strikes. So one
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 6: hundred percent of the knee cropsies said the whales were
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 6: starving and sixty three percent said that the whales were
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 6: starving plus struck by a ship. John said that a
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 6: starving whale is a delirious whale, So it's just more
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 6: likely to swim in front of a cargo ship. It's
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 6: a lot like when we talk about CWD with deer.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 6: The CWD doesn't kill them, it's that that they don't
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 6: have their mental faculties anymore, to the point where they
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 6: wander in front of a semi they walk out in
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 6: front of a hunter. They don't smell a coyote anymore,
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 6: and that's what kills a CWD pop po deer, not
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 6: the CWD itself. It's a similar thing. That's why all
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 6: these starving whales are getting struck. So what's going on
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 6: to cause the whales to starve? John's direct quote was this,
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 6: there has been a profound change in the Arctic. Here's why.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 6: He says that about ninety five percent of the world's
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 6: grey whales migrate to the Arctic. The other five percent
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 6: are these unique populations that wind up in Russian waters,
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 6: or they stay on the Pacific coast, or they go
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 6: into the Puget Sound. Those ones are called sounders. That
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 6: five percent grey whale population is not currently experiencing the
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 6: mass die off. The biologists who observe that five percent
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 6: say that they're doing just fine. It's the ninety five
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 6: percent that are going to the Arctic waters that are struggling.
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 6: John said, clearly there's been some sort of collapse in
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 6: the food in the Arctic. The grey whales they feed
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 6: by rolling around on the bottom and they scoop up
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 6: a bunch of mud and they fill throughout the tiny
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 6: shrimp in the worms. And he pointed out it's a
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 6: statistical fact that the Arctic is heating up faster than
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 6: any place else in the world. Loses ten percent of
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 6: its floating sea ice every decade, so obviously there's been
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 6: an impact to the microscopic food that the gray whales
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 6: are feeding on in the Arctic. And now it's like,
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 6: shine some new light maybe on the twenty nineteen population
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 6: to collapse. Maybe this is, you know, a whole decade
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 6: long thing that's happening. Here's some other tidbits from the
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 6: interview with John to believe that about fifteen percent of
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 6: dead whales wash up on the shore. The rest of
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 6: them sink to the bottom. Whale strandings for humpbacks and
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 6: orcs have been totally normal this year. I asked him
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 6: what happens to a dead whale that washes up on shore.
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 6: He said, there's three common solutions. It's buried nearby, it's
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 6: towed out to see where it sinks, or it's just
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 6: left to decompose. I found a juvenile dead hump back
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 6: last year in California. This one was just left there
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 6: to decompose. The smell was so intense on that thing,
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 6: you can smell it from like a mile away. I
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 6: wish I could have just like showed people that smell
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 6: like he to take a whiff of this thing.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 4: You want to talk some maggots, Well, why didn't you
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 4: just get a little ball jar and take a chunk.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 6: I don't think I'd be in jail, But that's auction
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 6: of boy smelly whale air. I also I noticed that
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 6: eighty one percent of the dead whales have been male,
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 6: and I asked him if that's normal. He said, no,
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 6: that that's a new phenomenon they're noticing. Asked if he
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 6: had a theory as to why. Here is his hypothesis,
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 6: which has not been tested. Calf reproduction has been very
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 6: low in recent years, and John thinks that maybe some
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 6: of the females are foregoing reproduction due to a lack
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 6: of resources. Therefore, the fields the females are more resilient
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 6: to the current conditions because they're not spending that extra
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 6: energy breeding and carrying a baby and caring for a calf.
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 6: So that's just his initial guests, you know, as to
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 6: why they've been seeing this for the last six months.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 6: Something else John brought up. The thirty four dead gray
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 6: whales in twenty nineteen was a lot less concerning because
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 6: that time we were just coming off at an all
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 6: time high for their population. So thirty four dead whales
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 6: out of a population of twenty seven thousand is very
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 6: different than if this year, if this pace continues, that'd
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 6: be sixty dead great sixty dead gray whales out of
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 6: a population of seventeen thousand. So just like some really
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 6: problematic numbers there. I asked him what he thinks the
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 6: short long term solution is. Short term, he said, to
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 6: prevent vessel strikes and entanglement and fishing gear because those
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 6: are often happening closer to shore. Just feels like we
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 6: have more control of that thing long term, just like
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 6: helping the grey whales in the Arctic. That probably just
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 6: means with research right now, And John said this. I
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 6: don't know if it's something John has been told from,
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 6: you know, the federal government, or if it's just like
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 6: a known thing among biologists, but he said that if
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 6: you're like funding ask mentions climate change, that it's just
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 6: like got no chance of getting off the ground.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what's funny though, is four years ago, if it
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: didn't mention climate change, had no chance. Yeah. So John,
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: four years ago, you had to take your research and
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: make it about climate change, or else you'd never get
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: your research done.
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 6: So for this as people would just.
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: And I know many researchers, you would take what you're doing, yeah,
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: and just impose a climate spin on it. Even to
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: the point of, let's say you were just trying to
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: work in public lands acquisition, you would need to say,
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: as the earthworms, right, and as stress from climate change increases,
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: people will need more outlets. Yeah, how will they find
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: relaxation on public lands? Therefore, as a climate mitigation plan,
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: we would like to create more public lands. You have
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: to play this dumb game. Now, you just go back
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: in and take it out and just keep doing the
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: work you're doing. Yeah.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 6: The problem is, John says, if you want to study
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 6: grey whales in the Arctic, it's impossible not to mention
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 6: climate change. I find a way for the next two years,
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 6: you know, probably just not happening for them. Last thing,
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 6: I asked, what you think the Macas tribe request to
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 6: hunt gray whales. Here's a brief timeline, so you're up
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 6: to speed. The nineteen twenties, the Macaw tribe quits whaling
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 6: because populations are so low. Nineteen seventy gray whales low.
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 6: I couldn't find that number. I don't know if they
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 6: even have one that exists. It's not just like a guess.
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 6: Nineteen seventy gray whales are put on the endangered species list.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 6: Nineteen ninety four.
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: What population.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 6: I don't have the answer for you there.
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: It'sn't real let down.
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 6: Nineteen ninety four. Grey whales are removed from the endangered
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 6: species list nineteen ninety five. Don't have the popular list
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 6: nineteen ninety four, well, actually the chart probably does. Nineteen
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 6: ninety five, so this is one year after they're after
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 6: off the endangered species list, the Macaw tribe notifies the
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 6: government that they want to start whaling again.
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: Oh whale, I don't.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 6: Know if that was the number.
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 8: We get to.
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 6: Nineteen ninety nine, the tribe kills one gray whale on
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 6: an approved hunt. This is a picture of one of
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 6: the harpoonists pursuing a whale at the time, So they
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 6: do kill one that year. That brings us to today.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 6: The tribe has not been given the green lights since,
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 6: and the case is sat in limbo for twenty six years.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 6: So they killed one gray whale in nineteen ninety nine,
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 6: have not killed one since.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 10: The at that point, they're Historically the caring capacity was
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 10: about twenty five hundred grey whales and they sit now
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 10: on thousand, twenty five hundred, okay, and then the optimum
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 10: sustainable populations about thirteen hundred.
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: That doesn't think you're missing a zero.
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 6: Something's missing looks like a specific grey.
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 10: Whale population versus Western Wales global one.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we have some maca coming up the show to
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: talk about their whale. They're coming out up on an
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: upcoming show to talk about whaling.
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 6: How many have stranded thirty four, No, thirty this year.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this tribe killing oh whale doesn't matter.
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 6: So I I That's what I'm asking John about. They've
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 6: killed one since nineteen ninety nine. The government has not
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 6: given them the green lights. Since John is fully on
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 6: board with the McCaw tribe hunting, he cited this it's
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 6: the only treaty between the United States and a native
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 6: tribe that specifically mentions the right to hunt whales and seals,
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 6: and it was signed back in eighteen fifty five. Therefore,
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 6: John feels we should honor that as the only treaty
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 6: that has that specific language. Here's a direct quote from
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 6: Article four of the treaty. The right of taking fish
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 6: and of whaling or ceiling at usual and accustomed grounds
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 6: and stations is further secured to said Indians. So John
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 6: said he's also seen the management plan that the Macaw
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 6: tribe has for the gray whales. He said he feels
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 6: as though it's responsible and it makes reasonable requests regarding harvest,
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 6: So if they want to go kill one tomorrow, he's
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 6: cool with it.
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: The only thing I'd have to know here I would
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: want to see. I would love to see a century's
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: worth of population dynamic information, sure, because what I don't know,
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: and I don't know if anybody knows this is if
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: you look at over one hundred years, how dynam is
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: this population and how unusual is the trough? Right? And
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: if they're in a population trough right now? Are they
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: in this trough every thirty years? Are they in this
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: trough every century? Have they never been in this trough?
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 8: What I'm seeing is Pacific grey whale population lowest populations
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 8: thirteen thousand whales, lowest population level since the early nineteen seventies.
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 6: Okay, so we'll see in the fifty years of tracking.
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 6: He feels as though this is like the most serious
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 6: it's gotten for the grey whales.
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: Not good news.
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 10: What's interesting is like in ninety nine when they did this,
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 10: it was huge public backlash is insane. It's become so
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 10: much more tolerated. Which is the only thing I can
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 10: think of in the hunting world that people are now
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 10: more excited about today than they were twenty five years ago.
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 6: You know, the grey whale strandings they could stop and
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 6: like you know, maybe thirty is the number they sit
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 6: on for the rest of the year, and then all
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 6: of a sudden, it's not so alarming, but it doesn't
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 6: seem likely. If that trend continues, this is going to
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 6: be like a real, like global topic. Politicians are going
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 6: to talk about this.
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: Well, they'll be back to being the next time there's
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: the next democratic administration comes in and they'll be reconsidering
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: them for endangered species at connections.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 3: Ain't gonna happ now tell you that, thanks Spencer, so.
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: Wolves eat cows crazy can't be true.
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 3: It is little baby cows or big cows.
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 10: Primarily baby cows. On average between three hundred and six
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 10: hundred pounds. Okay, so for almost one hundred years there
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 10: were no wild wolves in California. Today there's about ninety
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 10: individuals in twelve packs, and new genetic testing that came
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 10: out just the other day shows exactly what they're eating
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 10: and it's mostly cows. If you want to pull up
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 10: that map pill. This just gives an idea of where
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 10: the study is going on. We're going to talk about
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 10: the Lassen pack as well as the Harvey pack.
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: What pins are we looking at here? That just that
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: wolf one? Oh not the test.
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 10: Steve wants to know about the ten. That's where I
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 10: camped for sheep show last year.
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm with you anyhow.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 10: So last and Pack trickled in in twenty eleven, naturally
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 10: from Oregon, formerly identifying twenty sixteen as the first breeding
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 10: pair at the time of the study. Here in twenty
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 10: twenty three and twenty twenty four, there's fifty individuals and
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 10: about six packs. And as I've become the scat study
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 10: guy around these parts, this study is a scat pickup.
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 10: It covers, like I said, Last and Harvey packs, which
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 10: covered is about twenty wolves through the summers of twenty
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 10: twenty two and twenty twenty three, which is defined by
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 10: June through October because of the overlap with grazing on
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 10: public land. And in this study there were eighty six
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 10: percent of the SCAP samples picked up had cataly in them,
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 10: compared to in the teens and twenties for mule deer
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 10: or any other wild man.
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: But I got so many dude questions. But keep going late, No,
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: la bammy, We'll keep going. Is it embryo like are
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: they is it after birth? No, we'll talk. Yeah, we'll
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: talk about it.
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 10: This scat pickup method, as opposed to the iguano method
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 10: that was just purely counting, they.
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: Did a very very rigorous.
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 10: Extremely scientific methods, the first being mitochondrial sequencing to confirm
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 10: the species that was eaten, micro satellite genotyping which confirms
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 10: the identity of individual wolves, and DNA metabor coding to
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 10: identify the prey DNA in that scap. And then the
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 10: researchers through those methods were able to measure the exact
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 10: the biomass of what was actually eaten, so they could
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 10: tell in this scat eighty percent of that is cattle,
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 10: even though there might be seven different things that are
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 10: that are in that in that, and so it's not
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 10: just how often a prey showed up, it's relatively how
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 10: much that prey was eaten. And then through that so.
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 3: They can tell you how many pounds of meat roughly.
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 10: Yeah, it's it's pretty insane, and I could not get
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 10: into the specifics of how it works, but there's a
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 10: long section about that. And so when you when you
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 10: look into the biomass, which is which is kind of
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 10: what we're talking about, cattle averaged fifty five percent of
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 10: the biomass consumed versus twelve percent of mule deer and
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 10: fifteen percent of small mammals, So they're just chowing on cattle.
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 10: The you cannot determine what's distinguished from predation versus scavenging,
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 10: which which makes the data kind of interesting. But free
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 10: range calcalf operations traditionally have mortality around one or two percent,
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 10: So researcher state it's reasonable to think that a meaningful
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 10: share of this cattle biomass reflects actual kills.
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: Not just scavenging. And there are a few that.
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 10: Were confirmed to be actual kills, but generally it's so
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 10: remote and so dispersed you can't figure out what's what's
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 10: the scavenge and what's killed. Then I looked at a
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 10: meta analysis of this of like how does this compare
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 10: in California to wolves worldwide and how they're predating on things,
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 10: and you see that livestock are hit the hardest where
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 10: herds are grazing unattended and small dispersed groups. When when
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 10: you look at the occurrence of this compared to natural
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 10: game or that I should say that the game species
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 10: there actually seems to be a preference towards game species
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 10: as opposed to livestock. But the higher those higher rates
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 10: don't it's not the same when those cattle are dispersed
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 10: and when the prey goes down proportionally.
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 8: Was it. Did you come across anything about like whether
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 8: like introduce populations of wolves or like new emerging populations
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 8: of wolves, like do they prey on livestock more than
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 8: like escablished population.
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 10: Yeah, this idea that like maybe there's these coweaters that
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 10: were brought in that have been been talked to like.
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 8: Or it's just like they go for the easy stuff
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 8: because they're like in a new environment.
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 10: No, I didn't find that specifically. There's definitely a learning
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 10: curve associated with with like prey and a new species.
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 10: It seems that the prey have the learning curve rather
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 10: than the predators. But this meta analysis you look at,
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 10: it looks like two hundred different packs across the world,
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 10: and there's so some of we're going to be introduced,
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 10: some have been there for a long time, and this
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 10: is India, Europe, Us, and there's really not a preference
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 10: for cattle across the board. But when you compare that
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 10: to what's going on in California, they have no other
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 10: forms of ungulates, They have small populations of elk that
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 10: currently their ranges don't overlap a whole ton, and their
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 10: mule deer are in significant decline, So from a peak
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 10: of about a million in nineteen seventy to about five
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 10: hundred thousand today. What it shows is that as prey
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 10: species than free ranging cattle specifically get targeted by these wolves.
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: So a problem with that, yeah, is that there weren't
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 1: wolves there in nineteen seventy for the mule deer. Yeah,
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: I mean the wolves are just there now. Yeah. So
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: for someone to say that wolves have switched from deer
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: to cattle in California, they weren't there when there was
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: a million deer.
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 10: But in other places there's been there's like there's there's
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 10: a study in India where there's plenty of different.
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: Species and see where you see ungulate declines. They pick
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 1: up on cattle. Yeah yeah, yeah, that makes sense to me.
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: And if there was no cattle there, they'd pick up
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: on whatever's next dogs exactly exactly.
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 10: And so it's like, so what you know, I think
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 10: the big thing I came out of here with is
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 10: there there really isn't a thing of cow eaters. You know,
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 10: that was a big That was a big narrative in
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 10: the in the Colorado introduction. They're gonna eat what's convenient,
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 10: you know, they're gonna eat. They seem to have a
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 10: preference for wild game.
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 8: Wait a minute, Yeah, there's not a thing. There's not
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 8: packs that just like over time it becomes a learned
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 8: behavior that the pack leaders teach the rest of the pack,
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 8: and then it becomes.
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 10: A at larger scale. It only seems to happen when
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 10: praise species are at at are significantly lower than what
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 10: they could be, like the low carrying capacity. So they
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 10: I mean, they'll go hit the cows, they'll go hit
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 10: the cattle, but only when praise species are hurting a.
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: Little bit of that feels off to me, but only
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: kind of off how.
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 8: So well, like I'll give you an example, like the
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 8: wolves that were introduced in North in the North Park
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 8: area of Colorado that kept hitting cows and cows and cows.
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 8: There's shiploads of elk around there, there's moose around there.
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 8: There's like they're not in a game poor environment, sure,
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 8: you know.
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 10: They're So that's a good thing that you'll hear all
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 10: the time. And I talk to someone who is intimately
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 10: involved with that reintroduction effort, and a lot of that
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 10: report from his perspective was that there were individual landowners
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 10: who were intentionally causing conflict because they didn't like that's
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 10: a big man.
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: I know statement.
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 10: And so there's there's two things at plays that There's
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 10: one the reimbursement portion of it, which in Colorado's management
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 10: system was very generous. Like it, you know, it's kind
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 10: of like your climate change things like, oh my cow died, but.
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 8: What one's gonna they're not going to go kill their
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 8: own calf to be like.
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 10: Give me but a cow, a calf might have died,
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 10: and they said wolf did that well.
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 8: But they have investigators.
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: But then you can't it's hard to splay.
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 8: I don't want to distract.
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: Let's do it. I don't have a total problem with
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: I have a because there's there's there's inverse questions. There's
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: this thing that wolves when you have when you have
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: a early we were talking about buffalo, when you have
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: a buffalo population on the ground, there's kind of this
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 1: magic number at which wolves will start to pay attention
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: to it. I can't remember what it is. You gotta
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: have a thousand of them, or you gotta have two
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 1: thousand of them. At that point the packs will start.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: It's sort of somehow something clicks and it becomes worthwhile
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: in their mind to learn to kill it. And once
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: they learn to kill it and develop the techniques to
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: kill it, that's what the pack likes to hunt.
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 10: It would see again based on a couple of studies,
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 10: but these studies are globally. It seems that that data
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 10: is not born out. It seems that they'll eat what's there.
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 10: It's not like they learn to attack a certain thing.
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 10: Maybe in like localized populations that could happen, but across
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 10: the board you're not seeing it.
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 1: They have a debate about this. Not you and me,
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: we should not you should get all over people me,
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: but like other people versus other people.
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 8: I've also heard something that the larger a pack gets,
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 8: the more likely it is to turn to live.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: Because it's big and hard to kill. Big, Pa Kyle,
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: it's hunt deer. Go on. Just know I'm sitting over
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: here skeptical. Okay, well you'll you'll like this.
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 10: Then there's a companion study that's happening at the same
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 10: time with basically the same wolf herd in twenty twenty two,
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 10: and they're measuring the stress response of cattle in this area.
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 10: And so this is getting at the landscape of fear idea.
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm getting interested again, yep.
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 10: And basically, if wolves are present, whether or not they're
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 10: actually killing an individual cow, are they impacting the ranchers
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 10: operations because they're less because there's a boarded cattle, because
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 10: they don't lacktight as well because of all the other
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 10: things that cortisol can lead to. So you'll see in
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 10: as you compare these two herds, Traditionally, cortisol levels drop
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 10: as summer temperatures rise. You know, it's like a more
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 10: favorable growing season and the stress goes down, and wolf
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 10: exposed herds, that drop is fifty eight percent weaker. So basically,
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 10: the cattle when wolves are around, they stay stressed out,
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 10: whether they're getting.
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 1: Eaten or not, whether they're getting eaten or not. It's
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 1: so like if you went to your own house and
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: scared the hell out of your dog and chases all
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: around but never killed it, the dog is gonna suffer.
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 10: Old taste is good, you'll have a red cutter. And
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 10: so that raised cortisol is linked tenuously at this point
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 10: to lower fertility, weakened immunity, disrupted milk, or colosstrum transfer.
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 10: And the takeaway from this researcher is living among wolves
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 10: for cattle is a chronically stressful experience and that could
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 10: ultimately have production related impacts on both the short and
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 10: long term. However, it's yet, it's not proven yet. This
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 10: is an idea that people like to talk about. It
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 10: makes sense just when you think about it, but more
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 10: research is needed to see how much that's going to happen,
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 10: which gets back to the Colorado thing, because you look
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 10: at compensation and how do you prove compensation that my
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 10: cattle are not producing as much because there's a general
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 10: air of fear in this area and different different different regions,
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 10: different countries, different places have looked at that problem in
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 10: different ways because ultimately this conversation like wolves are going
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 10: to come back, we through ballot box biology or just
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 10: walking around, like wolves are going to enter landscapes that
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 10: traditionally have had cows that don't have large predators. And
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 10: so you look at three different types, three different methods.
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 10: There is a soul a pure India which I'm sure
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 10: I pronounced wrong, Wisconsin and then Colorado had basically three
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 10: different ways of compensating these ranchers in India, and they're
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 10: pretty similar, like they're pretty similar agricultural economies and whatnot
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 10: growing cattle or growing livestock, I should say. And India,
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 10: the wolves have always been there, Like people get it,
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 10: they've been there. They're cool with them, and claims are
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 10: managed by the government. They have very low rates of
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 10: claims of livestock predation claims in that area.
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: What are they running goats and sheep?
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 10: Yeah, because they're not slaughtering cattle in India. I think
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 10: it's all goats and sheep In Wisconsin. The original funding
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 10: mechanism was donations from pro wolf advocates given two ranchers
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 10: who or I should say agricultural folks who had claims
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 10: of wolf predation. Yep, that method lasted not long. It
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 10: is not the way they do it anymore. And then
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 10: in Colorado's they've introduced wolves. They pulled from the general
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 10: fund and they have a very generous scheme of paying
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 10: out basically predation permits. But it's tough. It's like, how
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 10: do you go about doing this? How do you determine
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 10: did that die by you know whatever, COVID or something
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 10: and got eaten by a wolf.
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 1: Let me save someone at home a mean letter. I'm
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: just going to express their opinion now, so they don't
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: have to write you a mean letter. If you turn
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: out one thousand coles on range, okay, and they're up
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: doing your thing, and then the fall comes and you
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 1: go to pull them off range and you count them
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: up and you got nine hundred and ninety, you're never
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 1: gonna know what happened to them. So someone's gonna come
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 1: and tell you, like, oh, the wolf mitigation thing, just
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 1: show us like I don't know, I don't know where
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: they went. They're just they're gone, right. You can't then
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: go like, hey, I'm missing ten and someone's gonna cut
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 1: you a check. Yeah, So that's part of the frustration
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 1: is you got to be there and do like you
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 1: got to be there here it is, it's got this
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 1: tooth mark pattern on it and it leads to I'm
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 1: not saying it's undoable. They lose coles for all kinds
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: of reasons, like cows die, they got a way of dying.
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying this is the lead cause of death,
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 1: but that is a frustration. Is the it's like it's
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 1: on you, the burdens on you to show what happened
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 1: to get the compensation. So that's one of the pain
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 1: points around compensation. Sure, so someone doesn't need to write
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: you that letter.
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 4: Thank you you guys, so that no one has to
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 4: write this letter as well. Common livestock in India includes cattle, buffalo's, goats, sheep,
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 4: and poultry, and India has one of the world's largest
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 4: cattle populations. But according to just quick AI search here
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 4: is that it's that's mostly for the milk.
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 3: Everything else.
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 4: The buffalo's, the goat, sheep, poultry, pigs they eat those.
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 1: Just support tough tough nut.
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 10: I started this thinking I was going to hear all
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 10: about how wolves are evil and their cow eaters.
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: It's so complicated. Yeah, you got in over your waiters
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 1: on that. There's a thing that no one, there's a
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 1: thing that just leads to fighting wolves. Wolves. Yeah, you
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 1: know they say, never talk about politics or religion at dinner.
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 1: Don't talk about wolves.
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 8: The water rights is another one.
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 6: We should just stock more elk where these wolves live.
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 10: That's what I'm stud We need healthy ungulate populations.
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: At dinner. When you go like, no, I don't want
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 1: to get political, you know, then you say something real political,
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 1: like I don't want to talk about wolves, but tight
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: something about wolves. Huh? Is that it?
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 3: I think that's all we got for today.
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: That's we're gonna talk about one thing we're not gonna
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 1: talk about anymore. It's about California. Here's one we were
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 1: gonna coll but we're not gonna. In California, there's an
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: area where they ban dudes from the peer fish and
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 1: sharks for fear that they'd hook a shark and then
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: swim over and bite someone who's swimming.
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 3: That's what they say.
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 1: If I was the mayor, I'd be like, no swimming
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: because if a guy's fishing sharks, and his shark's tangled
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 1: up on you. He might lose it. You can read the.
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 3: Mediator dot com We'll see you next week.
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: You can read about me do.
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 6: Better than the Mayor and Jaws The Mediator dot com
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 6: slash auction, Go buy something.
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 3: Oh that's right, check out that model cow killers.
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 7: Come on