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490: Discontent With Husband's Provision · Now That We're A Family

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Prevision is a huge part of a man's identity and it's clearly a more commission to provide for our family, you know, financially and physically.
• 0:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: And yet, it does seem like this is what what's
• 0:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: considered reasonable provision is going to vary from I think like person to person and I always find an interesting that when you start paying attention to how both men and women view like sufficient provision it's like there's it seems like it goes beyond you know the like hey if you have food and water be there with content you know like that's you that's very few people's like
• 0:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: actual standard for provision and we hear this a lot from listeners or we and then you also just hear it when you're like I said listening for it in church you know locally you'll hear that tension of from from women my husband works too much right his job he's his they're sending him there they're sending him here he's long long days at the office long shifts pick he's picking
• 1:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: and a frustration and what sometimes is considered which action might be like a abundant provision, right?
• 1:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like they're actually providing like above and beyond and maybe the woman's feeling a lack of physical presence, right, an emotional support.
• 1:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: but then it seems like just as often you'll hear maybe more often the frustration coming from the wife of feeling like she's not provided for sufficiently.
• 1:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, she has to bear a lot of the weight or feels like she's carrying the burden of some of the financial provision because of a lack of provision she feels from her husband.
• 1:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we've been talking a lot about this
• 1:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: and it really, I feel like we've gone through a handful of season in our 10 years of marriage, you know, now that we've been married 10 years, we can look back over a little bit of history and kind of consider some of the highs and lows we've been through in that area and where we want to be growing towards.
• 2:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think this is something that comes up a lot in our question box, too, is both extremes of, and this came up recently, but either my husband working a lot, I don't feel like he's present with me or the kids, maybe his jobs, and idol or something like that, that's the concern, and then the flip side of, I feel like I'm bearing the burden of this, and it's kind of interesting to consider,
• 2:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, like we have our, we're all the product of our culture, right, and what we grew up in.
• 2:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's easy to think, oh, well, how much is he providing, how many children do you have?
• 2:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that's negligence, or, you know, or that's obviously over abundance, or that's too much.
• 2:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's, it's all in correlation to average, and in my encouragement like now, and
• 3:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: forevermore to women in these situations is read the mirror of true womanhood because I was like it's a book we talked on a couple of episodes back, but he speaks to women that are faithful with men that are absent and women that are faithful.
• 3:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: either way, whether they are absent in the provisional space or absent because they're working so much and just how you can be such a faithful spiritual role in your husband's life and a helpful way and in a beautiful way that is
• 3:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: passed on, passes on the face to your children, and grows you spiritually, it's really a spiritual world that we live in.
• 3:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think when you hear these extreme stories, at least for me when I heard these extreme stories, especially of times past when people did not have as much money and poverty meant, literally your kids were dying of starvation.
• 4:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, wow.
• 4:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: My situation's not so bad.
• 4:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've got a lot to be grateful for.
• 4:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm actually pretty wealthy.
• 4:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or I'm, you know, I have a husband that is very present.
• 4:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not struggling with either of those things.
• 4:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: But if I were, it just kind of puts things in perspective away from the 21st century American dream.
• 4:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely, and it's funny because I was looking up some of these passages that I already kind of referenced, and Because we've heard Paul St. Philippians, I've learned to a base and to a bound and you know to be content in other situations Jesus said in Matthew You know look at the lilies, you know, look at the birds They don't even plan or or you know tend to their tend to their own food and yet got provides for them.
• 4:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're more
• 4:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're dressed more gloriously than this all the men in all of his are a and he says, you know, so worry not.
• 4:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: I should pull that one up.
• 4:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like trying to paraphrase the whole thing.
• 4:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: I actually saved that one.
• 5:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to get to the first Timothy one to give the whole reference to because you said Matthew, but sometimes it's nice to find exact words.
• 5:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Matthew 6, like he kind of starts, he goes into this Matthew 6 verse 25, therefore I say unto you, take no thought for your life, what shall I eat or what shall you drink, nor yet for your body, what shall you put on, is not your life more than meat in the body, more than reinment, behold the fouls of the air, for they so not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns, yet they're heavenly Father feed at them, are ye not much better than they,
• 5:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think he goes on to say, you know, what by taking thought can add to his cube it and to his nature and to his height, you know.
• 5:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: But then later on he goes, therefore, take no thoughts saying, what shall we eat or what shall we drink or where with shall we be clothed.
• 5:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: For after these things, do the Gentile seek.
• 5:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: For your Heavenly Father, knoweth that you have need of all these things, but seek first the kingdom of God in His righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you.
• 5:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Take their for an Orthodox, no thought, for tomorrow, for tomorrow shall take thought for the things of itself, sufficient unto the day is that evil they're of.
• 6:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're kind of like, wow, you know, like that's my dad would bring that one up a lot and reading it now, you're like, that's this Jesus talking, you know, that is, that's the real deal.
• 6:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: What's funny is I think I've heard men use that more as a defense to not provide well.
• 6:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Then I have heard for women taking comfort in that verse that trust God for your husband to provide for you.
• 6:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's probably a more help of verse even for women to hear.
• 6:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: in terms of like, hey, trust God, he's going to take care of you.
• 6:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Even if your husband is maybe failing in this area or struggling in this area, the Lord will come through.
• 6:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Versus, maybe man, using that verse to, you know, it's just a vacation for your work ethic or yeah, you know what I'm saying.
• 6:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you are right.
• 6:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I definitely have heard
• 6:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: And again, it's all, it's all subjective on the, I mean, this is, it really is scripture is so easily you will I are standards for provision or subjective right and so it's like nobody admires the guy that won't get off the couch.
• 7:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's continually playing video games and they're not living in a great situation and he says, hey, well, the Lord will provide, like we've, we're like, no, like he provides through you working, right?
• 7:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: He provides through you getting off the couch and applying for jobs and showing up when your shift starts and so on and so forth.
• 7:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so there is that however it's like to what then but then what hits the you know the criteria sufficient provision even when somebody is working hardly is under the law and they're being diligent because then the other one this often reference is
• 7:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't realize these were so close to each other.
• 7:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, that funny, because I'd always reference these like separate from each other.
• 7:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it's first Timothy 5-8, which says, but if any provide not for his own, and especially for those of his own house, he had to hide the faith and his worst than an infidel.
• 8:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: So this is oftentimes used as that commission to men to provide for your own, because if you don't, you're worse than an infidel.
• 8:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you're like, wow, that's a really sobering thought, and so men certainly should take.
• 8:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: When you remember your dad reading that to you the first time, because I know that has, like, been a guiding verse for you.
• 8:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, what's funny is this has, I mean, I just grew up hearing this because I had an older brother, so I probably even heard it, you know, recited to him prior before it was relevant to me providing for my own, or the before that was even on my radar.
• 8:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I heard that my whole life, but then the next one, which we've also heard, but I haven't heard it, like kind of in this context, because that's first, that's chapter five, and then in chapter six,
• 8:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: uh, versus six, but godliness with contentment is great gain for we brought nothing into this world and it is certain we can carry nothing out and having food and Raymond let us be there with content.
• 8:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that crazy?
• 8:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then that's the one that, you know, it goes, but they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare and into many foolish and hurtful lusts which drown men and destruction and perdition.
• 9:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: For the love of money is the root of all evil, which while some coveted after they have aired from the faith and pierced themselves through
• 9:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're like, this crazy, those are like, back to back.
• 9:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like for a ride, but also be content with the certain level of provision.
• 9:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, both those things.
• 9:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then like you said, okay, so if you're speaking to men, you say, well, hey, you've got to be diligent, because those are other attributes that go beyond just provision.
• 9:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that this is oftentimes where we're getting our own head as men is like, well, honestly, we live in a country and many people live in first world countries where the government will actually give them food
• 9:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: shelter, like if you're dropping the ball entirely, or if you just had misfortune come upon you too, because there are real cases of misfortune, you're not going to go hungry.
• 9:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like caloric deficiency is not our problem, right?
• 9:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's plenty of food in first world countries, and then same with clothing.
• 10:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right?
• 10:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, we don't have an issue with Raymond, and so you could look at that and say with food and clothes, be there with content.
• 10:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, I could literally knock it out of bed for the rest of my life, and we would have food and clothing, because the government, or, I mean, just the government, actually, you know, would care for you.
• 10:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I would consider that a failure to provide for my own.
• 10:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: That makes sense.
• 10:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, okay, well, if I'm not providing for my own, and the government is, I would consider that a failure on myself.
• 10:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't
• 10:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: right because on some level, it's like, well, you're dependent on something, you are dependent on the government for the roads or for, you know, how can you do that?
• 10:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no.
• 10:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Logic.
• 10:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 10:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Use logic or the lack there of, I do think that's actually really interesting.
• 10:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think so often we judge provision off of how much a man makes or woman makes whatever.
• 10:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: But in this case, we're talking about provision for the household, coming from the protector provider of the family.
• 10:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think of that.
• 11:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: which is so funny because really the measure of money a man makes does not directly attest to the character or his virtue.
• 11:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because he might ever in that money we see a lot through scripture that sometimes in just searching for riches we lose our souls along the way.
• 11:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there can be a complete void of character and virtue in a man that is very wealthy and providing
• 11:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And there can be a lot of diligence and honor and virtue in a man that is very diligently providing for his family and is never going to earn a lot of money, just whatever the chosen field is or whatever his limitations are or wherever they're living, for whatever reason he's very diligent, he gets up every day, he works hard all day, he goes to bed and his sum is set and his wife has to work with a tiny little budget, maybe a lot of children and that's always how it's going to be for them.
• 11:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that can be a very atom-roll household.
• 12:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: It can be the same with the wealthy household, for sure.
• 12:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: But so often we look at those funds, is like, is a man providing well versus looking back behind that and kind of judging more of the character.
• 12:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because I mean, especially when you start considering multi-generational wealth and so if somebody inherited something, and it wasn't money that they earned, but maybe they're grandparents or some, you know, an uncle, it's like, okay, are they, like, the provisions there, but are they working diligently?
• 12:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Are they, because you know, we, we are pulling these verses out that talk about provision specifically or it talks about, you know, being content with whatever, you know, with food and clothing.
• 12:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it's like we should never ignore other verses that just talk about character and growing as a Christian, which you know whatever your hand finds to do, do it hardily as unto the Lord.
• 12:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and then the Proverbs talking about the sluggered.
• 12:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: It says, hey, there's a lie in at the gate and how they're going to be able to fall into poverty.
• 12:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's like, it's a lawful turning on, it is bad, like a door on his hinges.
• 13:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right, right, right, and there's more that just praise diligence, right, that like,
• 13:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: But, like, diligence isn't attribute of a godly man, and so those are probably things we should be considering as men here in the 21st century United States where we are physically, like food and clothes not the issue.
• 13:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'd say for most people, even people writing in, it's like, okay, do you have clothes?
• 13:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you have food?
• 13:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'd say people that don't feel well-provided for would probably all answer, yes, if they're writing something.
• 13:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: And housing, right?
• 13:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: for whether that's living with relatives, whether it's living in government, you know, subsidize housing, whether it's living in a trailer, you know, you know, very mean conditions.
• 13:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: They would still have housing.
• 13:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so as a man, I think it's just incumbent upon us to
• 13:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: to look at being diligent, to work in hardly as unto the Lord, to look at the original design and realize that we are created to work six days and rest one.
• 13:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that when you actually look at that as a form of worship and obedience, like to your point, Katie, you want to be wise with how you're working and you want to do it in a way that does hopefully have some monetary return that improves your family's quality of living and such your children up, because that is another
• 14:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, Ben, the problem talks about like a righteous man, we leave his children, his children, and inheritance.
• 14:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's clearly praised.
• 14:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it really is kind of, you, as a man, it's like you kind of have to divorce the, how, like do you need this provision and in, in, based it more on, in my working heartily as unto the Lord?
• 14:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: because the food in the clothes is probably going to be there for, unless something catastrophic happens, which could happen, obviously in your lifetime, then you're having a different conversation.
• 14:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: But based off of recent history and what it looks like going forward, food and clothing is not going to be an issue for first world people.
• 14:51
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• 17:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think, too, I like how you brought up working six days in resting on the seventh because that's really something that is going to be a comfort or a guiding light for maybe couples where the wife feels like her husband's a workaholic in his working seven days a week and she never gets to see him and the family and everybody gets to see him.
• 17:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I would petition him with the value system of the scripture of taking a one day break.
• 17:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like, would you consider this?
• 17:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is this what you think, you know, scripture is still teaching today?
• 17:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if so, what's the day that would work best in your schedule to have a break and a rest?
• 17:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: And doing that as a...
• 17:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: sacrifice to the Lord because it's ours you could be working, but then that is, and I would be content with that, I guess, if your husband is working, just a crazy amount of hours, the other six days and you get him for one, being like, well, really maximized that day.
• 18:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: and maximize it with family time, maximize it with quality time with your spouse, and I think is a wife that's all you can really do.
• 18:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is the boundary that we see in scripture is that six-day work one-day rest.
• 18:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think there's so much just tied up in that.
• 18:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like your husband might not be the relational guy that's home every day at three o'clock and like hangs out with the kids and that might have been your dream, but at the same time that might be not, not be what God has for you.
• 18:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: He has you married to this man and unless he commits his this man of something opposite than what he's doing, this is who you are to help and to serve and to obey and so just roll with it.
• 18:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that may have been flow throughout marriage, and it may not, too, right?
• 18:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like you marry the person with a value system, and Lord willing, we're both, like, both the husband and the wife are going to grow throughout their lifetime in marriage, which means their value system's going to change, and it's going to more, and hopefully, yeah, be more and more Christ like, but that's going to probably, it might come at different temples and different places.
• 19:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I even think of this story, my dad's used numerous times, where when he and my mother got married,
• 19:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like they just they wanted two careers right my mom had just started her teaching job my dad at his career going and They were going to pursue the American dream from that perspective right and they started off with a boy in a girl and they're like perfect.
• 19:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: We got our boy in our girl
• 19:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Our son's going to play baseball, we're going to have a nice house, eventually we'll get the vacation home, a nice car's.
• 19:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then like the Lord shift my parents' hearts towards children and then my mom staying home with my children and homeschooling.
• 19:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that had a great effect on what they perceived their material life looking like in the future.
• 19:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: And even as their life continued to go, my dad felt like he over years had to let go more and more to some of his materialistic
• 20:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: and say no to opportunities and shift careers even to really prioritize even if it wasn't prioritizing the family it was kind of like killing the idol that that thing was.
• 20:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so even if it doesn't look like you know like well who'd what good did that do to anybody.
• 20:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, well, if something's an idol in somebody's life, then that is coming between them and God.
• 20:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so a lot of times, it might not even, you might not even be able to see, you know, I guess the results from it here in a physical way.
• 20:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I use that illustration or that story to just illustrate how the Christian life, I think, is going to Evan Flow like that.
• 20:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think our lives, Evan Flow didn't, in our value system and what we thought was a reasonable thing to pursue and then what was not a reasonable thing to pursue
• 20:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: like what was being too consumed with materialism and money and what's not being too consumed with that.
• 20:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so that might happen at a different pace as with your spouse, I guess is what I'm saying.
• 20:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a good point.
• 21:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's good to bring out.
• 21:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think I felt very convicted recently in scripture to from when I get up in the morning to when I go to bed, those hours are devoted to serving the Lord.
• 21:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so to really be accountable to him for my time, I think sometimes we think we're accountable to other to society's expectations, accountable to our to-do list, accountable to maybe some random bar we have set for ourselves in our head.
• 21:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: What's Bells or kids?
• 21:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Or us, we have a boss, yeah.
• 21:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so someone's saying, oh, we can drop that bar or, you know what I'm saying?
• 21:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not, I don't think there's arbitrary, there are arbitrary bars that we can drop, but one that we can't is just diligently doing with whatever energy that we currently have, which is sometimes low and sometimes high.
• 21:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: diligently working as unto the Lord and answering to him for that time throughout the day.
• 22:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that doesn't mean not factoring in rest or, you know, quiet things.
• 22:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: working out of guilt or anything like that.
• 22:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that goes for a husband and a wife, because I think that this happens domestically too, where women will say, sometimes we can view a house wife as or a woman that works outside the home.
• 22:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: and think, wow, she's very good at her job or she's very poor at her job.
• 22:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: But that's not necessarily true.
• 22:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, her house might be really sparkling clean.
• 22:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Versus another woman's home you go into and it's just mayhem.
• 22:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: But that woman is working diligently as unto the Lord every single day.
• 22:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: She just can't get the app totally together because the circus is so big.
• 22:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas the other woman, maybe it has things a lot more managed, God has given her more and bandwidth, and you know for four hours in the afternoon, she's really squandering time that he's given her.
• 22:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I really think that all of us are under the exact same, it's going to look so different, but we're all under the same guideline.
• 23:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: The talents.
• 23:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 23:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 23:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're supposed to diligently work as on the Lord all day.
• 23:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're supposed to be growing in virtue.
• 23:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're supposed to be, yeah, just faithful.
• 23:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And there's no room for laziness.
• 23:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's no room for procrastination.
• 23:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's no room for slothfulness.
• 23:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: These things are since.
• 23:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And when we,
• 23:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: work through those things.
• 23:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think the Lord brings fruitfulness and then as a wife we have to use our abilities then to take whatever fruitfulness our husband has provided with his efforts and maximize that fruitfulness.
• 23:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: with regardless of what size that budget is, or what size that home is, or what emotional and mental energy he has left over for the family, that's what we had, that's our budget, and that's what we work with.
• 23:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that women are very adaptable and very capable of that, but we have to get out of our heads this America thing,
• 24:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think sometimes, think our husbands are failing in areas that they aren't.
• 24:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
• 24:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe.
• 24:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 24:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
• 24:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: If he's working diligently every day, and you just aren't where you want to be.
• 24:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 24:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Just embracing, hey, we might never get hurt or where, like, kill the dream.
• 24:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: The dream is not what you're living for.
• 24:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: The dream is for unity and marriage in a fruitful, fruitful life.
• 24:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Amen.
• 24:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 24:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, a couple of things that I want to say one, or I'm trying to figure out which one to say first.
• 24:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Same both.
• 24:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Same both the same time.
• 24:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: No.
• 24:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because I think I do, I think I'm sometimes hard on myself.
• 24:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that that's the type of thing that a lot of men relate to is just we expect more from ourselves.
• 24:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think I can put that on other men as well.
• 24:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: But to try to, I guess, maybe defend the men in some of these scenarios here for a second.
• 25:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like you said to the to the wife who feels like maybe her husband is working a lot and working too much That one like that you know that there are women that would probably love their husband to work harder Okay, so like there's always just kind of like thinking about it from that perspective and someone who would want to trade places Yeah, exactly right just an element of gratefulness and then
• 25:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then too, any time I hear it from anybody's, I have this needs to be discussed with your spouse.
• 25:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like this just has to be a conversation that you're having with him and not outside of that.
• 25:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like if you're having this conversation,
• 25:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: like that your husband not working more it actually isn't going to solve the problem.
• 25:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: You've got to what's going to be the first step of progress is learning how to have this conversation in an effective way with your spouse, okay?
• 25:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like regards of him working less or, you know, making less money or whatever it is, you get to learn to do that.
• 26:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then to the wife that feels insufficiently provided for and feels the burden financially.
• 26:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: is, well, so what do you mean you feel the burden?
• 26:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, do you have to work?
• 26:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you have to bring in money in it?
• 26:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you have a read?
• 26:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think you have context that our listeners don't have, because this is kind of a response to two different women that wrote into the question box.
• 26:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think there's details there that could be helpful.
• 26:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you have those pulled out?
• 26:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I have to, you know, take me a second to log in.
• 26:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay.
• 26:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, but, but, but, but, but maybe in regards to either of those or to that one is that might your standards might be what's not being met, not actual standards for what's the second one, what's the second one?
• 26:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe a wife that doesn't feel like her husband's providing for her in a sufficient way, and she's feeling the burden, then it's like, well, what would happen if you stopped working?
• 26:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: What would happen if you stopped worrying about that, and you started going back to those verses trusting the Lord, would you go hungry, would you go without clothes, so then maybe the pressure you're putting on yourself is actually completely unnecessary.
• 27:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's above and beyond.
• 27:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: what the Lord said we need to be there with content.
• 27:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, again, I do think that there's just a, you know, Ben, men are also very lazy.
• 27:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I said, I hold myself to a high standard.
• 27:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: I also like have this flesh that likes to take shortcuts all the time.
• 27:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you know, hold yourself to a high standard.
• 27:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then beyond that, it's like we are in such a media saturated world where you can you can spend your entire life consuming media and not working at all, whether that's in video games or if it's just in sports content, if it's in movies, if it's in YouTube, podcasts, whatever the content may be.
• 27:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: you can sit there and consume and consume and never get anything accomplished.
• 27:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Then beyond that, it's like we're afforded so much time for leisure activities, playing golf, going skiing, going surfing, going hunting, like having your...
• 28:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just hanging out with friends, you're doing free things.
• 28:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think this is something that women do a lot is just socialize.
• 28:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it might be free, it might be at the park, it might be, you know, but it's not really caring for the things of our self.
• 28:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's hours upon our, caring about our homes, you know, are the things that maybe the Lord would have us be caring about.
• 28:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's hospitality related.
• 28:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: It could be, but maybe it's just a ton of social time.
• 28:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just leisure.
• 28:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like not just not productive not working going back to those six days of work.
• 28:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, man, we are afforded many men are the opportunity for tons of time spent in leisure.
• 28:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I know that's not
• 28:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that's my highest and best use.
• 28:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Speaking for myself, even if I could get to a place, and I remember, this was such a goal early on in our marriage.
• 28:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: We read the four-hour work week by Tim Ferders or Beach Money or just love MLM type literature, which was all about passive income, right?
• 29:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they were listening to the smart passive income podcasts.
• 29:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Bye.
• 29:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, yeah.
• 29:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: What was the same?
• 29:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is it pat, pat, fling, and like being able to like wake up whenever I wanted to wake up, go golfing if I wanted to go golfing, go skiing if I wanted to go skiing and just having money taking care of yourself, that was the ideal, that was the goal, you know, and you can invest in real estate and get residual income.
• 29:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: going and I remember the first time I felt like I might be there and it's like okay we had our online income to a place and it's like don't have to sit in a alarm, I don't you know I can do whatever I want to do and it didn't take long of that just to feel like a total bump right like that's not that's not what God's call is to at all ever
• 29:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: ever, right?
• 29:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I think that can serve as a motivator.
• 29:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it made me do a lot of really hard things, right?
• 29:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: It made me have a lot of really hard conversations and start businesses and work long hours because that was the carrot for me.
• 29:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I don't necessarily like be grudge that that motivated me for a time to do hard things.
• 30:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: But then when you actually get there, you're like, that was the wrong motivation all along.
• 30:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that obedience to the Lord should be
• 30:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: the motivation from the, from the, from the get with each one of the, you said from the time we get up the time we don't get up and, and, and I don't think that leisure is bad, but I do think that like excessively leisure is, right?
• 30:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I do.
• 30:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think rest is good.
• 30:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I really do think leisure take something from us because a lot of leisure takes, um,
• 30:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's just a difference between Russian leisure, rest is refueling our soul sometimes.
• 30:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Leisure actually takes more than it's giving.
• 30:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not a community activity.
• 30:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I would say like social media, consuming social media and not creating on it.
• 30:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: But consuming social media would be a leisure activity.
• 30:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's taking from us mentally, spiritually, emotionally.
• 30:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a drain.
• 30:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's statistically proven.
• 31:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: What about maybe hobbies, you know, I just went golfing for my brother's back and there could be a rest activity.
• 31:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: you'd call it a rest activity, okay, so that's right.
• 31:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe called golfing work, but I wouldn't call it, I would call it leisurely.
• 31:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not like it's my go-to hobby.
• 31:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was doing it because it was, you know, that's the groom's room we're doing for the bachelor party.
• 31:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: But what I don't think a who broke this down really well was in a book.
• 31:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so we don't have like fishing.
• 31:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like they don't need it for provision.
• 31:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: They don't need it for substance or more.
• 31:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Or, or hunting.
• 31:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, you know, for us we enjoy skiing.
• 31:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 31:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: like a hobby, fall under a rest because it's like a break from work.
• 31:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a mental break from the world, you know?
• 31:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's not sure.
• 31:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: No.
• 31:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, okay, man.
• 31:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Ha ha ha.
• 31:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's not.
• 31:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I would have to look up what does Marion Webster say about rest in leisure, but I do think and I cannot remember the book, so it's really unhelpful because the guy explained it in the book to me really well, but I can't re-communicate it.
• 32:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think the difference that he was trying, it's not so much the words.
• 32:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: But trying to see the difference, he used the words rest and leisure and pitted them against each other to try to see the difference of what type of taking a break is soul-filling and is going to fill us up to go back to work.
• 32:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And what type of things activities we do that we think are responsible that we think are fueling us, but are actually just making us more to satisfy with life, more fatigue with life.
• 32:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: right and our draining us just as much or more as the work is and so therefore we are not prepared to go back into work.
• 32:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense?
• 32:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 32:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like as we experience that on our Sabbath, for instance, when we turn the internet off, we used to do a lot of leisure activities on our Sabbath, you know, get on YouTube, check all the stuff that we didn't have time to do during the week, and then we'd go into Monday feeling more drained, like, still very unprepared for Monday.
• 33:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Versus when we turned that off, and we did things like, hi, how are the kids?
• 33:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: other activities did, but we were really excited to go into my day.
• 33:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: We are truly rested.
• 33:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks.
• 33:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, um, anyways, I say that all to say, I think the 99% of the time the pitfall is is, uh,
• 33:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: not working enough for for men and I like I don't know that there are work of hallways but I don't think it's actually work this the problem is probably like what the work is that they're doing you know because I think whether or not you're if we're an employer if you're home then I think you should still be working and parenting and fatherhood stewarding your property your home thinking care of your home you know working to please your wife
• 33:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I do think there are work-a-holics that just direct their, and we would use that term, because they're directing their work in the wrong place.
• 33:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, just to income production maybe, or just to further their own career, right?
• 34:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, that just career in it and it of itself is like a silly thing to kind of pursue.
• 34:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like to build, say silly, like it can be a very deceiving thing to pursue.
• 34:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Very self-interested.
• 34:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
• 34:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, okay, wait a second, this is beyond.
• 34:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: serving your life and your children and even your community or your church.
• 34:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is going way past that and you're putting in 70, 80, 90 hour weeks, whatever, and traveling and getting more and more and more qualifications.
• 34:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's not served.
• 34:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's beyond serving the Lord or working to serve anything.
• 34:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of like a law of diminishing returns at a certain point.
• 34:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you keep putting energy into one vein when your life has gotten more full and there's other areas now where you need to work.
• 34:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 34:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I would say.
• 34:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Anyways.
• 34:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I do think that is a good experience that with you.
• 34:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 34:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that's a good filter to have.
• 34:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we talked about giant five, I think last episode.
• 34:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: But whether it's okay, I want to start a business or I want to go back to school or I want to change careers.
• 35:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I've not done this.
• 35:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've done so many things for my own just desires, but if you can get to a place where you're saying like, well, what's best for our family, what's best for the home, what's best for my, my origin having those conversations, I think you can have a lot more of a just clear conscience and a lot more confidence than pursuing it.
• 35:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I've been so grateful how you have, just as our family's grown and gotten more complicated and as we moved out on the property and all that I just feel like you've just like slid, well, still keeping a foot on the gas with provision and growing that, not not slacking and that at all just spreading your energy out over working for our family and our home and our community too and that's just been such a gift.
• 35:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, I'm glad you've sensed that because I have shifted mentally in that I and I hope that the Lord continues to refine this because I was just motivated for the first, you know, I don't know, seven, eight, nine years of our marriage.
• 36:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I personal ambition like my accolades, my personal income, my fulfillment, right, what what's the work that I enjoy doing my unique ability or.
• 36:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's like that and.
• 36:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was just kind of, I think feels like almost probably an digital alert working in my heart and then having some encounters with some other men that were Christian men that had objectively accomplished a lot with their life.
• 36:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like had a lot of acclades that were cool.
• 36:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: That I thought were like verbatim, the things I wanted to achieve, you know, and yet there was, there was huge compromise in the home.
• 36:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it was so weird to me how
• 36:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Little it made me want those things if it came at that cost but it made it distasteful to you big time like all of a sudden the association with Get whatever these achievements were I was like I think I don't want those things You know, they're still very cool things and I and I don't want to swing the pendulum and say well now I'm not gonna you know Persuading these things ever for my own interests It's just gonna be about the wife and the kids Um, but I want that to be the
• 37:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you felt too like a very interesting man should have very interesting kids, like in terms of like he's brought them along and they're a part of his like, um, I don't know how do you say it like something.
• 37:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's probably like what he's poured into and I think sometimes with these guys there was a void in the development of the children.
• 37:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you were like, whoa, I do not want like I want my kids to be accomplished and developed and capable and I don't want that to come but it costs because I'm so busy out developing myself.
• 37:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 37:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: No one's back there developing them and the ways that I could do if I started putting funds that way and time and energy that way.
• 37:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 37:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: It has been like a crazy shift, I think.
• 37:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 37:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Mr.
• 37:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Conversation and your energy and it's been so fun for a family.
• 38:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: And what's crazy is that I still get to do a lot of things that are really enjoyable.
• 38:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it was a total shift in priority.
• 38:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so to give you an example, you know, this is an example.
• 38:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I want business and finances, you know, that's obviously a goal for men.
• 38:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: But then I got really wanting my pilot's license, really wanting to get my EMT certification.
• 38:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we were like signing up for these classes, right?
• 38:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: To get the hours and for those, you know, I want to get my black belt in jujitsu sooner rather than later.
• 38:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: I really want to continue playing music, record more music.
• 38:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I had all these goals of mine that were very, very much mine.
• 38:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then I, I literally was able to meet some men.
• 38:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I truly feel like it was providential, the Lord bringing them into my life that had, and we're doing, like basically everything I just said, right, on a high level.
• 38:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And, and yet, they're older children, teenage, and older children, were just in my mind.
• 38:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Missing their father big time and it and these are men that were 10 15, you know 20 years older than me, maybe And I was like whoa, those things are not Desireble at all.
• 39:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want to pour into my when it comes at the cost of your children I want to pour into my children right now like and so yeah I can bring my boys to Jiu Jitsu and if I get a class or two a week, that's a total bonus, right?
• 39:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a total score and maybe when my boys are in their teenage years and they want to
• 39:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: if they want to get their pilot's license, maybe we could do it together.
• 39:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so there are still things that I think are still great things, right?
• 39:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're doing a thing of maybe I can incorporate.
• 39:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right, with my boys at once, they're 16 or 18-hour-viral, you need to be here, you know, to take an EMT course, maybe I'll do it with them, you know, but the way I was had it scheduled out over the next couple of years was going to come at the cost of time with my kids and also their development.
• 39:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it was so beyond me just like providing for them.
• 39:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right, like I didn't need these things.
• 39:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: to provide for them, we're kind of getting a topic here.
• 39:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I do think having that filter for men, I'm like, okay, wait a second.
• 39:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: like, my duty is to my wife and to my children.
• 40:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's going to look, and that goes beyond, well, it starts, I think, with, yeah, physical provision and protection, but it can go beyond that, too.
• 40:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it can then become emotional and it becomes spiritual, and I mean, you should be spiritual at the base level there too.
• 40:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: But actually doing things for your children or not.
• 40:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I know that sounds like really basic, but that is still,
• 40:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Why, like, I don't watch football every Sunday, you know, it's like a very basic, like, because I don't want to like do that with my boys, you know, I'm doing it for them.
• 40:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like I, in my flesh, we probably enjoy that week after week after week, um, and it's the same reason that you like, you bring certain ingredients into the home where you don't.
• 40:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: You start doing it for the kids.
• 40:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think actually using that, doing it for the kids is a really great, mode, reason to do something.
• 40:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're not doing something.
• 40:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I do think it's really good.
• 40:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like you said, we got a little off top because I think it was really good and I think it's really encouraging because there's so many ways that a man can spin this time.
• 41:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: So many of them, the world deems profitable and then some deems unprofitable and then we have to back up a step further from the profitable options.
• 41:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then consider, okay, what is God?
• 41:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: What is His eye hierarchy for the profitability?
• 41:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think our home is just so blessed by the way that you choose to spend your time in our home.
• 41:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think from a wise perspective real quick, just coming to the financial thing, because you touched on something a bit ago.
• 41:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't think it's always wrong for, I think a wife, it points in a marriage, will feel financial burden.
• 41:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: and it's going to look different ways.
• 41:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: It might look like investing into the income stream of the home while your husband is getting something going.
• 41:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it would be very helpful.
• 41:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: We had a listener write in just explaining that the
• 41:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, her husband's business was taking longer to get off the ground than what they expected.
• 41:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And she was providing during that time.
• 42:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so maybe setting up some boundaries.
• 42:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: You could, I was having that conversation like, okay, how long are we going to do this?
• 42:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think a lie should I had certain boundaries in mind when our kids were little and he was getting stuff off the ground while he was still working for our family, which was a big blessing.
• 42:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I was invested heavily at that point in time in the work.
• 42:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it was kind of like, okay, what is our time frame to where I'm out?
• 42:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so having that clear goal, you know, like, are we doing one more year or this?
• 42:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if we don't have a profitable leg in this business, then are we cutting it?
• 42:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is this just inevitable?
• 42:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we're tied to this ship?
• 42:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if it doesn't...
• 42:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: fly.
• 42:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: We all sync with it.
• 42:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think those things can really help determine just how much this is going to take and get you guys on the same page instead of feeling like things are just forever.
• 42:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think even if a wife's not involved and financially providing for the home and anyway, she still might feel financial burden when you have, you know,
• 43:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: or when the budget is smaller than what you think.
• 43:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: My favorite phrase, like, just do it as stewarding the finances is a burden.
• 43:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's going to be a burden.
• 43:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's, I like she does bear the financial burden for our family.
• 43:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm so grateful for that.
• 43:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that has, like, that umbrella, his umbrella of financial provision has gotten bigger and bigger and bigger over the last 10 years.
• 43:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or I just don't feel the financial burden like I did in year one and two of our marriage at all.
• 43:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Even when you haven't been doing work to help with the businesses, you were on the frugal side of things.
• 43:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you were doing cloth diapers.
• 43:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: You are grocery budget with $75 a week for about the first year of our marriage.
• 43:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for like three years.
• 43:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: First three years of our marriage, you know?
• 43:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: And like, like, you were feeling the burden and not, like, even if it wasn't income producing, you were feeling it.
• 44:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I don't think that's a wrong.
• 44:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: That can be a woman's role that she plays.
• 44:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And like a woman is going to play a role in the home's finances and the home's economy.
• 44:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so don't be scared when that falls on your shoulders to a certain extent.
• 44:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would say just have courage in that and learn to steward and do whatever the home economy is requiring of you well for that season and then also like Alisha said, you really go to communicating with your husband in terms of is this a forever thing how long are these, you know, setting up some benchmarks that you need to hit because especially with entrepreneurialism, you can really, if you're too committed to
• 44:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: A business that is a failing business, it can just really be the anchor that drags you to the bottom of the sea.
• 44:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like are we going to stop at bankruptcy or are we going to stop it?
• 44:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like someone else taking raising our kids like where are we going to stop?
• 44:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 44:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I do think in this day and age, you can get a business profitable very quickly or at least get a profitable leg quickly of the business.
• 45:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so.
• 45:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Considering those things, maybe having those conversations would be helpful.
• 45:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, be on the same page as usual, and then because that world will determine because it could be your business or it could be a career that you're not willing to.
• 45:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: give up, and it comes with the expense of the family, and I think that is the, um, like, is this thing becoming an idol here, you know, like, what, who's serving, who's serving, who here?
• 45:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and I don't know, just the time that we have with our children at home, you know, I know we've referenced that book when your child is six to 12.
• 45:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a precious time period, but obviously even before that is, too.
• 45:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and that was something though that Katie Knight,
• 45:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you were not willing to work from a, I say, not willing.
• 45:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Our goal was, like, you were, you know, I'm sure willing and would have done anything, you know?
• 46:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: But what I was willing to do was to live on a very small income, if entrepreneurialism didn't work out, if further in education didn't work out.
• 46:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you, like, by the time our kids were homeschooling age,
• 46:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that was going to be what you're going to be doing.
• 46:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I wanted, like you wanted to be the sole provider.
• 46:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted you to be the sole provider.
• 46:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 46:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I was willing to live on a pitence if that's what it required, which it did not.
• 46:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
• 46:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: But that was like the cut off for us.
• 46:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was like, okay, when the kids are school aged, I'm not going to be, you know, pushing this thing like I am now.
• 46:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that is a benefit of, you know, having younger children when you're starting these things.
• 46:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: But then there is some just, and I think that's one of the sobering realizations I'm having now, is it's like, oh, god, it like this is the, this is it right now with my kids at home.
• 46:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I do want to, my maximize that.
• 46:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: not the business, if the business is providing, then there is an element of like, okay, that's good, and I want to steward that, and my family's provided for.
• 46:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't want to spend the next 10 years, like trying to, whatever, you know, 10x the business, or, you know, get what, like you, you have all these goals, and it's like, that, I mean, again, that could happen, but I wanted to be,
• 47:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: way down the priority list.
• 47:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like there's an element of the food and clothing thing.
• 47:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, okay, we're provided for here.
• 47:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want to pour into my children and to be very present for them.
• 47:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, in this many areas as I can.
• 47:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think of that too, in terms of a wife, maybe our husbands are feeling more pressure than they should based off our expectations of what our lifestyle dream lifestyle is.
• 47:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe your husband's business could technically provide for you, but you're working because
• 47:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you still like certain comforts that you have, and if that's the case, then you're going to be the one to have to evaluate your value system.
• 47:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's okay.
• 47:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, is this best for the kids?
• 47:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is it not?
• 47:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, could we just take a cut and income and it would be better for the whole health of the family?
• 48:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or are these things very valuable to our life when we just need to have them?
• 48:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know?
• 48:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, again, money is a tricky thing.
• 48:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a tricky conversation.
• 48:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: A wife feels cared for when she knows her husband's working hard, regardless of what the income is.
• 48:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just know from a fact, like when I see a live show working hard, his income has been small, it has grown.
• 48:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just so blessed, but every time I see him getting up and taking on the demands of the workload of our family and the business,
• 48:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is, I see it, I'm just so grateful for the sacrifice it is and makes me want to do better.
• 48:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: It makes me want to be more diligent.
• 48:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so, I think that is just going to always be something that speaks love to a wife is a diligent husband and sees in the prosperity or in seasons of drought.
• 49:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I think a man just instinctively knows too.
• 49:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're like, when he can look at himself in the mirror, then, and like a cam working hard is under the Lord.
• 49:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I do think we know.
• 49:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I just think we know and we lay our head and I'm on the pillow at night time.
• 49:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, when we work hard and when we didn't.
• 49:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you can do that is under the Lord.
• 49:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then you can walk in confidence.
• 49:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you can't trust the Lord on the provisional side of things.
• 49:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like he will bring the increase or he'll bring, you know.
• 49:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, he's going to bring growth if it's in his will, but you can only control your output, and we know when we're avoiding the hard things, we know when we're cutting corners, we know and we're, you know, whatever, hitting snooze or showing up later, like we just know.
• 49:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I just kind of think, okay, it's time to just live as under the Lord, you know, and to have that clear conscience, to have the confidence that comes from a clear conscience,
• 49:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: knowing that you're being industrious, you know, and that you're being deligent.
• 50:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that should be an aim for man.
• 50:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I think so.
• 50:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then I think as a wife, the way you inspire has been, is by just worrying about yourself and controlling what you can control, but then having conversations.
• 50:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think of St. Monica, who's a Gaston's mom.
• 50:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: and she had an unsafe husband who was super angry.
• 50:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was a super angry man.
• 50:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: And all of her friends at the time wife beating I think was just the norm.
• 50:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, why are you never beat?
• 50:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, your husband is so angry and volatile.
• 50:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And a guest in says that his mom learned very early not to ever approach her dad, his dad when he was angry, but the second he calmed down to make her petition to him.
• 50:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I just think there is this a good rule for life.
• 50:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, it sounds silly, but I think it's so true.
• 50:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's a time to approach and be like, hey, layer petitions out, and then there's a time to be like, this is not gonna get anywhere.
• 51:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, okay, just go with it.
• 51:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that just being thoughtful about that, not never saying a word, but knowing when you can, and then knowing when, hey, you know, when your husband's getting ready to leave on a trip, and he's all excited about a promotion, or something, you're like, you work too much.
• 51:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's not going to be stoked.
• 51:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: He wants you to celebrate with them, you know?
• 51:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: So just knowing those times, which is way easier said than done.
• 51:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that's an encouragement.
• 51:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Both just that wisdom, that delicate wisdom is a wife.
• 51:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes.
• 51:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, folks.
• 51:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, thanks so much.
• 51:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And again, I know we already said this, but just get down the same page with your spouse.
• 51:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like these conversations need to happen.
• 51:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not saying this like as
• 51:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not break, and I'm just saying how we've handled it, and I do think it's been healthy for our marriage, is that we've handled it in our marriage, and so, yeah, have there been times where Katie really needed to like voice frustrations, absolutely, but she didn't go talk to other people first, you know, in both ways, yeah, exactly.
• 52:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: If there's things that, like just, if you can voice your frustrations, like you said, with tact, thinking about the timing of everything,
• 52:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: that then you're giving your spouse the opportunity to strengthen your marriage from a place of strength, you know, to say, face, so to speak them.
• 52:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: And like you just know, man or they're going to get so defensive, if you start by bringing in a third party and like bringing in somebody and saying, hey,
• 52:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: listen to this podcast you know like like this you need to hear this or read this book or I talked to the pastor and he thinks I'm right you know like if you can have those conversations first in your marriage and get good at that and that's a capability right it's not like oh you're bad at an hour so you never try it's like you know you're bad at it but you work at it
• 52:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: and you get better because I think we've gotten way better at it over the last 10 years.
• 52:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know you've become so much more gracious when you raise concerns or questions.
• 52:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: You really think about the timing of it and it makes it a very simple, productive conversation.
• 53:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because my heart deep down is to have to serve you and to make you happy and to please you.
• 53:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: But in moments of pride and arrogance or heeded or feeling accused and getting defensive, that's not going to be my response.
• 53:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I don't know, you know, just prove you wrong or something.
• 53:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
• 53:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like back in a man in a corner is never a good idea.
• 53:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Back in anyone in a corner is ever a good idea, but like a man's definitely not.
• 53:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not going to get to anywhere.
• 53:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I do think that a third party should only be brought in when it's mutually been discussed and agreed upon.
• 53:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: like there's a time for that and that's not been something that we've had to pull in in our marriage.
• 53:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a resource that we're willing to pull in if we can't figure it out.
• 53:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's not like we're like, there's not never, there's never a time for that.
• 53:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: But it's a manipulative and out of line for one spouse to just decide to do that.
• 53:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: It undercuts the trust.
• 54:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, even if you're not listening there, they're not listening.
• 54:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Still to hell that like, hey, you're not listening.
• 54:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think we should bring in a third party, you know, at least have that conversation.
• 54:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you can, I think they feel like they're can even be able to make them, maybe, like, hey, if we can't get this sorted out, I feel like this is the only way forward, you know what I'm saying?
• 54:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or like, maybe if someone's stone-wine, like, if we cannot talk about this,
• 54:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: We need to, you know, so they're there can be things and I don't know.
• 54:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's getting into just delicate.
• 54:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're just so delicate.
• 54:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's so worth it, though.
• 54:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just just a precious precious gift.
• 54:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, folks.
• 54:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk to you next week.
• 54:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Bye.
• 54:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Bye.
• 54:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Bye.