Latest / At Your Own Pace / The Secret to Conquering Boston’s Hills and Outrunning Your Own Doubts
Transcript
- MikeRunsMarathons: Folks, we are back. Season two of At Your Own Pace starts now. Really happy to be back. I missed you guys. And I'm so excited for the episodes that I have lined up you for this season because we've got some incredible runners and endurance athletes that I spoke with and their stories are just incredible. There's no other way to describe it. But for those of you that are new, my name is Mike. I run Mike Runs Marathons and this is At Your Own Pace. This is where I interview runners of all backgrounds, experience levels. finish times and paces and talk to them about their stories in order to help inspire other runners like yourself and to try to show everyone how everyone's running story is different and how running can change your life in more ways than just helping you with your physical health. But this first episode of season two is going to be a little different because this episode is going to be all about the Boston Marathon. And I'm really excited to share everything with you because the format of this is also going to be different. I had the chance to interview runners at the Boston Marathon Expo before the race, and then I interviewed a few runners after the race to talk to them about their experience with Boston, what Boston meant to them, and just how the race went in general. And so I cannot wait for you to hear those stories, but the majority of this episode is gonna be something that I've never done before, which is to talk about me, to talk about my Boston Marathon experience and how it went. If you follow me on social media, you know that there were a number of issues that came up for me leading up to Boston over the last about five months or so. So I want to talk about what it was like and kind of from start to finish talking about the race itself and talking about how my last Boston win and how that compares to this one and starting from getting on the bus to Hopkinson to crossing the finish line at Boylson Street. So let's get started. I'm so happy that I got to interview runners at the Boston Marathon Expo. It was fantastic going up to people of all genders, all ages, whether it their first Boston Marathon and they were coming back, if they were qualifiers or charity runners, or if they were invited by different groups, it was awesome to hear their stories and to learn about them and to find out what the Boston Marathon means to them. Because we all know that the Boston Marathon is a very difficult race to get into, right? You either have to qualify or you either have to get in through a tour group or with a charity or with some other type of sponsor, what have you. And to be able to walk into that expo and pick up your bib. is a huge moment for you because you are running what many people consider the most prestigious marathon in the world. And to be able to find out what that race meant to those individuals was everything. So I want to pass it off to them for you to hear their stories and to be able to just see how important the Boston Marathon was to them. So why don't we start with you telling us your name and where you're from. I'm Taylor from Minnesota. I'm Maddie from New York. John from England. So come over for the Boston Marathon this week. So really looking forward to it. Hi, Fernando Limbo. I'm actually from Boston. ⁓ I'm Amanda Markle. And I'm from St. Clair Shores, Michigan, which is just right outside of Detroit. My name is Devon Cohen. I'm originally from right outside of Boston, but I currently live in Cleveland. Just to let everybody know, Devon was on At Your Own Pace for an episode. So make sure you give that a listen when you get a chance in season one. My name's Ashley. And where are from? I'm from Utah. My name is David Saunders from Birmingham, Alabama. Here with Here We Go Running. Is this your first marathon? No, my fifth. Wait, sixth, actually. I've done the Ogden Marathon in Utah twice, Salt Lake, Big Cottonwood also in Utah, and then Mount Charleston in Las Vegas. Yes, this is my sixth one. I think this will be like 23. No, I've done London a couple of times. I've also done Ironman Triathlon. So I'm used to kind of doing a bike ride before I do a run. So this should be easy. Oh, yeah. Probably eight or so, is that my dead? Second marathon. This will be my eighth marathon. I was wondering what yours was going This is my third. Is this your first Boston? Nope. Second. And just for fun, how many Disney marathons have you done? A lot. First Boston. First time here. Amazing crowds. Yeah, great experience. So ⁓ this is my first Boston Marathon. ⁓ is my first Boston Marathon. Actually, I'm fundraising for Race for Rehab, Reppin, raise funds for Spalding Rehabilitation Hospital. This is my second. This is my first. It's my second. Yes, and I'm so excited. How did you get in? I qualified at Mount Charleston in Las Vegas. Qualifying. Qualified in New York. I qualified at Indy back in two years, I guess a year and a half ago about now. yeah, the first time I tried to qualify was back in 2017, right around the time when my daughter was born and failed miserably. So all in all, took me about seven, eight years to qualify. I qualified several times and didn't get in because of the cutoff. So this is pretty special to me. It's my first Boston and it... took a lot of effort to get here. I qualified at Erie, Pennsylvania, so it was like the last chance qualifier race, and it was September, and it's the weekend before the qualification window opened, like closed. So it was like a last minute thing. What does the Boston Marathon mean to you? Honestly, for me, it means everything. It's part of the reason I started running in the first place, because it's something I aspire to do, having been raised like right around the area of the course, not to ride a bike in Newton on those hills. So it's always been in the back of my mind. after 2013 and became something I thought maybe I'd want to do one day. I mean, you look at the crowds here, it's kind of, it's world famous, you have to qualify here, it's just kind of the history and the kind of everything that goes with it, so yeah, it's iconic. ⁓ I wouldn't have qualified, wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for ⁓ guys that I run with every day. So, if you ⁓ you know, a deep level, ⁓ I think means community because it's ⁓ great to be to have. people to run with every day? it's so special. My dad ran it a long time ago, and ever since I was little, I was like, I want to do that. But I wasn't like super fast in high school. I did like cross country. And so it's kind of nice to finally reach a really big goal of mine. So it means a lot. I think it's quintessential Boston. You know, since I moved to Boston when I was 18 years old, you know, ⁓ it came time for Boston Marathon season, ⁓ to see the city come alive. And so. now after living here for 18 years to actually be a part of it and to do it. I am just so, so, so excited. I feel like it's just so historic and prestigious and it's like an honor to run it. I don't know. I love the community of it. I would agree. I would say if you made it to Boston, you can call yourself a true runner. Oh, it's just like an accumulation of everyone's working so hard. to get here and I like to run it to see everyone else running it too. It's just like, I don't know, it's just such a fun event for all the runners who have worked so hard to get here. yeah, it's like some people train for years to get here and I'm just kind of like ⁓ of the lucky ones where I can even get in to run this and that just means a lot. It's a ⁓ physical and mental struggle to get here. And if you had ⁓ one for ⁓ whether it's marathon running in general or for the Boston Marathon, would it be? ⁓ for both. Don't go out too fast. Save something. And this one for the Hills and all others just for the ⁓ 10k. Just it. Enjoy the journey. The race should be kind of like the lap of honor. Just kind of ⁓ enjoy it and yeah, aim for your goals. yeah, shoot high. ⁓ I think tip would be to... It's a marathon so we'll get it. from a long-term perspective, it took me seven years to qualify. I have a congenital heart defect and that didn't impact me. ⁓ surrounded myself with good people ⁓ just kept doing a grind for ⁓ a long period of time. So I think that was kind of what eventually let me get in. To just have fun. always, like I don't really do a training plan ever, which is kind of silly, but I just go out and however far I want to go that day, that's how far I go. To enjoy the process. You I think ⁓ It can just be so easy to be very much, it's good to have a goal, I think so much of the journey is just as important as getting to the finish line and ⁓ so many other ⁓ prior runners just kind of what they enjoyed most. ⁓ lot of it, ⁓ feedback was ⁓ ⁓ energy and the crowd and the people. No one really ever said, ⁓ when I finally got to the finish line, right? It was just ⁓ being part of it. And so ⁓ I say that. That would be the advice I would give. sure you have a good pair of shoes and drink lots of water. I say fuel really well. Can I do like two tips? Okay, the first one is have fun. I know like I'm going into this with a goal, but I'm also going into it with just a mindset of I want to have fun, enjoy the course, enjoy the race, but also be proud of. who you've become to be a Boston Marathoner. That's just something so incredible in its own. Hey everyone. So this episode is brought to you by Shox. Now Shox is my all time favorite headphone company. So their headphones not only have great sound quality, but they also allow you to maintain transparency and the ability for you to hear your surroundings while you listen to music. It is fantastic for me when I'm out on my runs. It allows me to stay safe while I run it allows me to also still have great sound quality at same time. Now by using the promo code, my friends marathons, save about $5 off your purchase. So feel free to use that code, save a little bit of extra money on your purchase. Cannot recommend these headphones enough. They are absolutely fantastic and you will not be disappointed. Now let's jump over to my Boston marathon recap. My training for Boston kind of went off the rails back in November and part of December. I went through some issues with my mental health. I was really in a bad place. I was having issues with just thinking about who I was and what I wanted to accomplish in my life. And it was just a struggle to sometimes even get up and train and be there for my family and for myself. And I sought out help, which I'm really happy about. Therapy has always been a massive thing in my life. And so I found a new therapist after I found out my one that I was seeing was no longer going to be able to accept my insurance. And luckily she is fantastic and I love her. But I was in a dark place for about a month and a half. And usually Running is my outlet a lot for stress and it helps tremendously. But we all know those of us that suffer from things like depression and anxiety that sometimes it can get so heavy that we don't go do the thing that helps us the most. And so that was something that really impacted me throughout November and then part of December leading up to my surgery. I had surgery to re-repair a hernia that had kind of reopened about a year ago. prior in 2024 when I fell while I was running. I hit the ground but I caught myself and I think that the jolt of catching myself when I hit the ground caused that to happen. And I had the surgery about 20 years ago or so. So it made sense that it needed to be re-repaired. So that put me on a commission for a couple weeks. But then we had my daughter at the end of January, Lulu, and she was, she's such a gift to me and my wife. I love her so much. changed my life in more ways than I ever thought was possible. She was in the NICU for about five days after she was born. So that was about a full week off no running because I was focused on her. And then obviously being a new parent, you're trying to adjust to the fact that you have this new human in your house. So I ⁓ exhausted. It's the only word I can use, of the time. I'm usually at nighttime runner. I usually run later in the day because I'm not a morning person at all. I wish I was and I'm trying to work on that but as of right now it still hasn't happened. I, because of the winter, I have a treadmill in my garage and so I would run on that usually around like 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock at night and was kind of my ⁓ thing that I have done during most of my training cycles. Well, we would get to that time and I would be so tired that I just couldn't do it. And so I missed a number of training runs and then, you know, as time went on there were, you know, obviously raising my daughter, you know, has been wonderful. There have been a lot of ups and downs, there have been a lot of things that I have learned as a new dad. I grew up in a single-family household, so I never had a father. And so I was coming into this blind, and I didn't know if I was gonna be able to do it, but the first moment I saw my daughter, just my life changed. And I will never forget that moment. And something in my brain clicked, and I went into dad mode kind of immediately. So I'm just really grateful that I've been able to be there for her and step up and be a dad, because I didn't know... if I would ever be able to do that because I never had a father figure really to teach me what it would be like to be a dad. But come the beginning of April, which was about three-ish weeks before the marathon, Lulu got RSV. And so luckily my wife had gotten the vaccine before Lulu was born. And so when she got RSV, wasn't as bad as it could have been. But we were in the hospital for a few days just to make sure that she was okay. And that was really scary. So obviously that put off my training. And then I got sick. after that and that was a major issue because I was out of commission for about another week, ended up getting a sinus infection. And fun fact, I took my last antibiotic for my sinus infection, I think the day or two before the marathon. So it was still relatively recent up until the race that I was struggling with my health. So even going into the race, I didn't know if I was like fully recovered from the sinus infection. I felt like I was, but I didn't know just kind of like whether the antibiotics had fully gone through my system, but I felt good going into the race. I didn't feel sick. I didn't feel like I still had a sinus infection. So those of you that are like, shouldn't have run while you were sick. I was not. And so we came up Friday, my wife and I and Lulu, and I was lucky enough to be sponsored for the Boston Marathon by Zizal. I had actually qualified and been accepted back in September. So I was already going to run the race. But a couple months later, Zizal reached out to me. They are the first allergy sponsor of the Boston Marathon and they wanted me on their team. And so I was very grateful to be a part of that. I met some other incredible content creators who do really great things and I'm really happy I met them. They inspired me. They, by looking at their own content, I learned a lot about what I can do. So I'm really excited for what is gonna come down the line for me. And the Zizal team was just wonderful. They were so great. They had a cheer section at about 1 on 19 and I saw them and ran past them. They even had a sign for me, which like really hit me hard. So I was really happy about that. And so we spent kind of the next few days just kind of wandering around Boston and then the Boston Marathon, I guess you can call it area because the whole area around the expo kind of becomes the marathon because of Newbury Street and the finish line's open and the whole area is kind of blocked off. I picked up my bib on Friday. I was supposed to run the 5K on Saturday, but I woke up on Saturday with just a massive migraine. I don't know what's been going on. I've been starting to wake up with these headaches and I decided not to run it. I beat myself up kind of all day for that because I had raised money for a charity for the Stepping Strong team. I ran the Boston Marathon with them in 2024 and they helped me complete my first six-star journey. So they have a big impact on me. They mean a lot to me. And plus, obviously, it's a lottery. So I got selected for the lottery. I paid my entry fee and I didn't do it. And I was ready to kind of send it at that race. I really wanted to go hard. I really wanted to be able to run across that finish line and try to PR, get as close to a PR as I could. So that upset me because I didn't get the chance to do it. And that also took me away because when we got to Boston, I was exhausted. It took me away from several ShakeOut runs that I wanted to do. I wanted to do a ShakeOut run with Herm. Didn't get to do that because our flight was at six in the morning. We got there at 730. We were just exhausted. Got to our hotel and just immediately passed out until like 12 o'clock. Saturday, because I didn't do the 5K, basically we went back to sleep. I missed the ShakeOut run with Runa. So I didn't get to kind of wake up my legs by doing any runs. I didn't do any runs on my own. I was with my wife, I was with my daughter, and we were just kind of going around the city. But I did have an incredible moment. Saturday night, I got to meet with the Zeiss All-Team. We had dinner. And then Sunday, I got to attend the Chasing Stars event with Shocks. I was very grateful to be selected by them for the Boston Marathon. And we had a great time. We did a small shakeout round about two miles. I met some incredible other runners and some people that I actually follow. So I was really happy to meet them in person and be able to finally get to see them. And we did a nice little yoga session and then it was like a dance meditation event where a guy was really trying to motivate us with music and dancing, getting us out of our comfort zone so that we could kind of relax and just be in the moment. And at first it was really weird, I will be very honest. I was very self-conscious, but then I realized this is just a moment that we'll never have again. And so I decided to let loose and did some dancing and floss and did the running man and it was It was a lot of fun. So I left that feeling really good. Then went to bed Sunday, woke up on Monday. I barely got any sleep. I know some of you will probably agree with me that the night before a marathon, it's just full of stress. It's just full of anxiety. So I think I may have gotten about two or three hours of sleep, woke up incredibly grumpy at like six in the morning because I had to be at my bus. I had to be at the air at Boston Common for the bus at 730. And my pre-marathon routine is a little weird. So... Obviously wake up, get a shower, get everything set up from, I have everything set up for the night before, but get everything together so that I'm able to get dressed and put everything on. But what I eat the morning of, which somehow we discovered in 2023 after I ran the Philly Marathon, was eating Kodiak protein waffles. So my wife and I have a mini waffle iron that we have taken all over the world. We've taken it to London, we've taken it to Berlin, we've taken it to Tokyo, and we take it all over the country for my marathons. And we buy the instant Kodiak. mix that they have where you just add water and my wife makes me like five or six mini waffles that I eat and it's enough carbs and protein to get me through the race. I usually have in the past have had just major stomach issues during the race. It's usually around like 17 or 18 miles 17 or 18 where it just it comes out and it comes up and I am in pain for the rest of the race and we came to find out that I just didn't have enough food in my system. I used to make the terrible decision that I didn't eat anything before the race because you don't trust the fart after mile 20. I honestly, I didn't want to shit my pants and run that risk. So I was like, if I don't eat anything, then nothing will come out. So what ended up happening was I will get that stomach pain. So luckily that issue has been kind of solved. And so I ate a couple of waffles. We put them the rest in a bag and I headed over to Boston Common. Got on the bus, was hectic as hell, I'm sure many of you will agree. It was just a madhouse of people. So I didn't get on my bus until about eight o'clock. We got to Hopkins Head at nine. And as we drove, I ate my waffles and just kind of chilled and listened to my music. And if you listen to Ally on the Run's live podcast with Claire Holt, Claire Holt talks about how she listens to music where men yell at her and motivate her and tell her to not be a bitch and to... shut up and just keep going. I too listened to those motivational speeches and I decided to put some on and listen to that and then relaxed at the athletes village where you know I got to go to the bathroom and listen for my corral color and number. Made it to the starting line and I will be very honest I was nervous getting to the starting line. It also was cold. I was prepared but unprepared. was wearing a singlet and half tights which is what I usually wear. had a blanket with me, but I was really afraid to take it off because I thought it was really cold. But once I took it off and I got adjusted to the weather and the temperature, I was totally fine. Ran across the starting line and something in my mind switched. And I went from being really scared to being really focused. And I was locked in kind of immediately from the get-go. I continued, you I ran past. So obviously we go to Hopkinson. Is it Framingham? Hopkinson, we went from. Hopkinson to Framingham and the crowds were incredible. It's really awesome to run through smaller neighborhoods. At the beginning, it feels a lot more personal. People sitting out on their lawns cheering you on. It was really nice. And I know that they tell everybody for about the first 5k or so to not go out too fast because it's downhill. So I tried to maintain it. I was trying to follow my pace plan that was on my watch and I was a little faster than I wanted what it said it wanted me to be. But I felt good. And I set into my pace when we hit kind of that Flat Road in Natick. And when we got obviously to the Wellesley Scream Tunnel, I actually missed it the first time I ran the marathon in 2024. I didn't know that I had run it. I legitimately thought it was like a literal tunnel that you ran through. But in 2025, I definitely heard it. And in 2026, I ran past it right next to them and recorded them. People weren't kidding when they say that you can hear that screaming from, you know, half a mile away. It's incredible how much these people care about other runners, care about random people that they don't know. And it was just wonderful to run by them and to be, while I was focused, I was able to take my mind off it and focus on the crowd a little bit, which was great. And I maintained that pace. I was doing really well. My pace was anywhere between like 715 and 730. I actually was on target to have a PR in general, not just with Boston, but overall. And so that really shocked me. You know, we got to about, what, miles 17 or so, the Newton Hills hit. At mile 17, we had the Newton Hills. And that's when things started to fall apart. That's when the fitness that I knew I was lacking from the last five months of my training plan being kind of awash came out. Around mile 19, I needed to walk a little bit. I walked the flat portions of the hills, ran up the hills, ran down the hills, because I promised myself that I would at least run the hills. Round up Heartbreak Hill, my paces for those hills was just, for me, was abysmal. It was, they were bad based off of how I ran last year. They were so different. And so, did my best to maintain and even pace once I got over heartbreak kill and it becomes kind of that downhill portion and then flat. actually ran into runner Jess for those of you that follow her ⁓ and ⁓ we made that each other. said hi. And then I saw her just zoom past me. He a PR and really proud of her. And I didn't want to bother her. I knew that she was focused and trying to hit a time. So I just let her go. Ended up run walking a little bit more, a little bit further, and then ran into Mile 24, Josh Vernon and his wife, if you follow them. And it was really funny because I was at Mile 24 and I was running and these two people I saw reach out for me. And I was focused in front of me that I didn't see anybody in the crowd. But when that happened, I stopped and turned around and I saw them and ran back. And they gave me the strength and the energy to keep going because I told them, I was like, I'm so exhausted. And they're like, you only got two more miles to go, you got this. And so I ran, you know, this last couple of miles, made that right on Hereford. As you can see on my shirt, shout out to Marathon Sports, that right on Hereford, left on Boylston. And I got to tell you, out of probably every single marathon I've run, there is no more iconic finish line than the Boston Marathon. I mean, it has its own slogan for getting to the finish line that everyone knows about. And it's really funny when you turn on Boyle's Den because yes, you're on the last road of the marathon and you're gonna cross the finish line. But when you see the finish line, it looks so far away. It looks like you have to run another mile. And I looked at it and I was like, oh my God, here we go. But I stayed focused. I also knew that this is where a lot of the photographers were, so I... tried to make as many poses as I could, tried to smile. My pace had kind of slowed from a 715, 730 to about 830. So I was, you know, really struggling at this point, but I tried to maintain my strength and look strong. And about 400 meters from the race, some of you may have seen the videos or the pictures of this, there was a woman who was really struggling with getting to the finish line. There was a man who was holding her up. had his arm around her and I could tell that he was struggling as well to get her to move. And so I ran up to them, I asked them, did you need any help? He said, yeah, I get the right side. So I jumped on the right side, put my arm around her, and we carried her to the finish line. And as soon as we crossed the finish line, the medics immediately grabbed her, and they whisked her off to the medic tent, which I was really happy about. And I checked in with her ⁓ to see how she was feeling, and luckily she was fine. She actually, she said she doesn't remember crossing the finish line, she just remembers waking up in the medic tent and was there for a while, but I'm glad that she's okay. And I know that she is upset about, you know, not really remembering that finish line, but I'm really proud of her for being able to get as far as she could. And I told people, I had a lot of people message me and reach out to me saying, you know, that was, that was great thing you did. You stopped worrying about your time to help somebody else and all this stuff. And honestly, my response to everyone was, listen, if I was in that position, I would want someone to do the same thing for me. joked with my wife. I said, you know, if I'm there and I can't walk, I can't crawl. dragging you by my leg. Like, I need to get across that finish line. All I saw when I looked over and this man was trying to help this woman was myself. I was like, you know what, I need to help her because I would want that too. So I'm really happy that she made it across that finish line, you know, even if it was with some support. I would do it again in the heartbeat. I didn't care about my time at this point because I knew that I had missed my A, B and C goal. So I was just, let's finish. And luckily, I didn't know this. finished in sub 330. I finished at 329 and changed. Technically, qualified for Boston next year, but will not make the cutoff with that. But I'm happy that I did qualify for 2027 at Chicago last year with a 316. So I will be back next year, which is fantastic. I ⁓ Boston. I love the energy around the marathon weekend. And I love the Boston Marathon. So I will get revenge. on the Newton Hills and I will get revenge on those last few miles and I will be able to run up those hills faster than I did in 2025 because I'm going to train harder and stronger and smarter so that I'll be ready for next year. And I crossed that finish line and I will be very honest with you. I was disappointed. Knew that going into the race that I may have issues because of the problems that I had during my training cycle, but there was still a piece of me that I had hoped. that maybe something would go right and I would be able to do it because I mean, I've run 16 marathons before this. So I was like, the fitness is there, right? It's not like you take a little bit of time off after having all of this endurance strength build up inside of you, this aerobic capacity, it doesn't immediately go away. And I still trained during last five months. It's just that it was very chaotic and sporadic. So I still ⁓ into the race prepared, I would say, probably about 90%. But when I ran into the issue with the Newton Hills, I was mad at myself because I made a promise to myself that I would run up those hills and I made a promise to myself that I would try not to walk as much as possible and I still ran into an issue. And I felt really defeated at the end because of those issues I ran in for the last like six miles. But the one thing that it did do was inspire me to train harder and to really dive in to what I'm capable of because my ultimate goal is to break three hours at a marathon. It took me about 10 marathons, I don't know, it eight or 10 marathons to break four hours when I did Tokyo in 2024 with the 348. And since then, all my marathons have been under four hours, which is fantastic. But from... Tokyo 2024 to New York 2024, I went from a 348 to a 311. 311 is still my PR and I'm still working towards breaking that. And I know that if I really put in the training, if I really put in the time, if I'm smart with it and I dedicate myself to it, that I can break three hours. I got a physical trainer, I got a nutritionist, I'm gonna be able to work with them to make sure that I am prepared and ready for Chicago. So the one thing that this race did was, While I beat myself up and I was upset about it, it made me even more excited and more hungry to run a strong Chicago. Because I have Chicago, New York and Philly at the end of the year. And am going to work as hard as I possibly can for these next ⁓ months to be ready for that race. And I also, just to put it out there, I have incredibly high standards for myself that I'll never reach. I know I won't because they're so incredibly high and perfectionist that I... need to work on bringing that down so that I can still be proud of myself, which I've never really been during any of my marathons. Whenever I have across a finish line, I would be happy and proud of myself for a little bit of time, maybe like five to 15 minutes. You you're in that finisher village and you get your medal and you get your poncho or what have you in your bag that they give you all the stuff. And I'm proud during that portion, you know, taking pictures of the finish line, getting your finisher photos taken by the photographers. It's a great moment. But then my mind starts to tricks on me and starts to say, well, anybody can do that. Anybody can run a marathon if they just train and put their heart and soul into it. They can run a marathon. So what you did is not really that important. And I constantly am in battle with myself between, no, it's a marathon. Not everybody can do it. That's why only 1 % of the population has completed the marathon versus the anybody can do it portion of my mind. They're constantly at battle with each other. So there is a wall that has been built from years of trauma growing up that has kind of made it difficult for me to be proud of myself and to accept positive feedback. So that is something I'm working on. That aside, I will say that the entire Boston Marathon weekend was a massive ball of anxiety for me. struggled a lot with the things that I missed during the weekend, the ShakeOut runs, the Boston 5K. I felt like I... could have done more during that weekend. I know that you try to rest during any marathon weekend so that you can be ready on race day, but I'm the kind of person who likes to go around and explore and do things that you can't do during any other dates, schedule for that moment and if you miss it, that's it. And I know Boston is just with like, the ShakeOut runs from a thousand different companies and there's no way you can do all of them and somebody who was... She was supposed to be at the Chasing Stars event on Sunday, but she had another ShakeOut run she had to go to. I ⁓ some of the stuff that they had for her there and gave it to her. But ⁓ was not the only one who had to like make those decisions of like, I go to this ShakeOut run or this ShakeOut run? Cause there's like four or five of them at the same time. I really upset that I missed all that stuff and anxious throughout weekend, just thinking about the race and what potentially capable of, and when anybody would ask me, you ready for the race? My response would always be no. And I was honest, I just didn't know how it was going to go. Um, happy that I dug deep into this race, um, cross finish line, just locked in and focused really good race for about 19 miles. So, the thing is, uh, or two years ago, when I would finish a marathon, I would have to go to the med tent for some issue, whether it my knees, my ankles, graded, what have you, things like that. Um, do it with Boston that once again, I finished the race and was not injured. I'm sore. ran that race with tendonitis and outside of my foot. went away and started running, which was surprising, but now it's back. I'm which is great. This is a couple of days after the marathon. So my body is kind of now usually me about three or four days to fully recover from a marathon. So I feel ready for Chicago. you know, now and, ⁓ and celebrated, I my metal grade. I got my tracksmith poster, airing versus my first Boston marathon. finished my first Boston Marathon in 2024 and about 354, 353, I think something around there. I was really proud of that because it was under four hours and it was Boston. I knew that Boston was going to be very difficult for me because I don't really live in a hilly area. So there's not really a way to fully do hill training. Part as I promised myself in 2024 that I would run up Harpreet Hill. I did not realize that I was on Harpreet Hill until I got up to it and you see the banner. is that you have like, summoned it or you have cracked it or something, Heartbreak Hill. And I was like, are you kidding me? I cannot believe I did that. I missed Heartbreak Hill. I made a mental note for the blathering this year that I would make, that I would run Heartbreak Hill. So I'm really happy that I did. And I walked most of the hills in 2024. For two years, I did not. I walked a little bit this year, but for the most part, I ran them. So I was really happy about that. A really different running as a dad because I... Know that my daughter is only three months old and she's not going to remember this. But my goal with running these marathons as she gets older, inspire her and to let her know that, let her know what it's like to push through the pain and push through the difficult times and show your resilience. Because that is the only way that we grow as people and the only way that we can become stronger individuals, whether it's mentally or physically. And so I'm not going to lie, forget I'm a runner. be real. She'd be a runner at some point. But I was really proud of afterwards, my wife and ⁓ ⁓ pictures with Lulu wearing the medal and she very confused and our stuff spiked for her so she had him all weekend. So it ⁓ different having ⁓ my there. I blow a kiss to my wife at every finish line because she's standing there and I cross somewhere close to it and I find her and blow a kiss this year. couldn't because she was unable to get to the finish line. I was able to meet them afterwards and really happy to see them. I've done all six world marathon majors. I finished in 2024, and I'm actually one star away from getting my second six-star medal, and I just have to finish London. I know I'll never be selected for the lottery because it's just impossible. This is my third Boston. A lot of people ask me, why do I keep running these big races? And my answer is always, I just love the atmosphere around these races. Going back to them, they, kind of courses, The crowds are just really up-notch. Goal obviously is to run Sydney and virtually Shanghai and Cape Town. I don't know if I want to do them when they get world marathon majors, but I definitely want to do Sydney because I lived for a month when I was in college for study abroad in beautiful, beautiful country. Boston overall, very anxious weekend, but I am proud the fact that I finished with the South 330 and that I was able to have a good race for more than half of it, about three quarters. I'll come next year stronger. and ready to tackle those hills that I will be able to her with me. She'll be a year old by then and a little bit more than simple. It's happening. Fantastic. And I'm really excited for that. I'll end this with you ever running Boston or the thinking of running any marathon for A2. Don't know if you can do it. You know, if you can run 6.2 miles or not fast enough or you're not fit enough that you know something. Running in 2018. I try and take my life. I need to have surgery to make sure that I didn't have cancer and found out that I had hypertension too. I was about 60 pounds heavier than I was now and ⁓ made the conscious choice to start running because I just gravitated towards it. And if you had told me back then that I would have run 17 marathons, I would tell you crazy. And I went into my first marathon blind. I didn't really have a training plan. Longest run I did was probably about 16 miles. So I had no idea what it was going to be like after that. I want to let you know something. The only way to get over that fear is to face it head on. And so if you are curious about running a marathon, or if you're curious about running any race, half marathon, 10K, 5K, if you're thinking about just getting started with running, just do it. Jump into it head first. That's the only way that you'll be able to get into this. Because if you let your fear dictate whether you start something or not, what's gonna end up happening is you'll get to a moment in your life where you'll look back and say, I wish I had done this 10 years ago. the one thing that you'll be living with is regret because you wish you had done this. And so the only way to move forward with that goal is to just jump into it. Run with the fear. Have it next to you, but keep running, right? We all have imposter syndrome. We all have anxiety around other people and thinking that people are judging us. If you push that uncomfortability and that fear, you will find out something that you didn't know about yourself. The whole reason that I run marathons is to push my limits and to realize at the end of that race, that the limits that I set for myself are meant to be broken. That is one thing that usually every marathon runner learns when they finish a race. You don't know if you can do it. You get to a point in the race where you question whether or not you want to quit and why you did this in the first place. Well, when you cross that finish line, you realize, I am stronger than I ever thought I was. So whatever your Boston is, I hope you go find out what's on the other side of it. And I want you to remember that as you go and you chase that goal to run your race at your own pace, because that's the important thing. Not someone else's, yours. because your story is unique to you and that's what makes you special. So I want you to go out there, chase your dreams, fight against your fears and the anxiety. Cause that's what I did this weekend with the Boston Marathon. Because you'll find that on the other side that you are way stronger than you thought you were. Everyone, this episode is also brought to you by For The Run. Now For The Run is an incredible clothing company that makes wonderful pieces of apparel for runners. My favorite thing of theirs is their Run Far Don't Die hat, which I have worn throughout. multiple marathons in the last year and I've gotten a lot of comments on it. I cannot recommend them enough. And if you use the code FDR-MIKERUNSMARATHONS you can save an additional 10 % off your purchase. They are actually appropriately priced and they're also made out of great quality. So feel free to support a small business and you can find them at ForTheDogRock. Now let's jump over to the post-Boston Marathon interviews. On the flip side of the interviews that I did at the Boston Marathon Expo, I reached out to a couple riders after the race so that I could get their perspective on how the race went for them. We all know that after we cross that starting line, anything can happen. You can have the perfect training cycle. You could have your watch saying that you are in peak mode and your body could feel great. But as soon as you cross that line, anything can happen. It could be the weather. It could be your shoes. It could be falling. You could be tripping. It could be an issue with hydration or with nutrition. You never know what could happen. And so finding out from these individuals kind of not only how they got into the Boston Marathon, but also how and what the Boston Marathon meant for them, but how the course went and what the most difficult portions were. And especially talking about Heartbreak Hill, because we know that that is probably the most difficult portion of the race. I thought it was important to share with other people because know that there are thousands of people that want to run this marathon. And ⁓ able to have them share their perspective on how the race went and what the struggles were, ⁓ think will help some runners when it comes to understanding the course itself. And then obviously finding out from them what is next because I know that there are some people chasing stars. There are some people that are chasing PRs at smaller races or people that are trying to do more training. They might have other races lined up, other marathons lined up, things like that. So I'm going to pass it off to them so you can hear how their Boston Marathon experience was. All right, so why don't we start actually with you introducing yourself and telling us where you're from. My name is Phil. I am on Instagram and all the socials as Miles and Splats. And I am currently a six-star chaser for the major. for the World Major Marathons, who just ran Boston on Monday. Sure. My name is Shana Miller, and I am from Newton, Massachusetts. My name is Siobhan. I am 37. I am from the South Jersey area, mom of two kids, which I always make sure to say that because I feel like it's so important for other moms and parents to know that it may be hard, but it is possible to go after your dreams, train for marathons, hack marathons, even with My husband's a first responder, so that adds a little extra into my difficulty because his schedule is pretty chaotic. There's no consistency with my schedule. Sometimes I'm running at 430 in the morning. Sometimes I'm running like after work. It's just kind of wherever I can sprinkle it in. And I got into running probably like April, 2023. I showed up to Broad Street because I had a bib. I hadn't trained and I was like, well, I don't want to miss it. And I, it was hard. It was not a quick pace, but at the end of it, I was like, Well, what if I actually tried next time? And then I sign up for a half marathon and it has spiraled ever since. You've got the running bug after that. Yeah. Yeah. We can start with talking about the marathon itself. It's not easy to get into. We all know that. So what is the story behind your bit? So I qualified at Cape Cod Marathon of October, 2024. And when registration came around, I missed the cutoff by four seconds. No. And it was... Heartbreaking, needless to say. Yeah, so that was not a fun day. from September until December, I kept thinking about what's next. I was going to run cheap marathon in New Hampshire the week before Boston, which would have qualified me for 2027. So that was kind of my plan. And in December, I heard that iFit was having a contest for ⁓ people that missed their cutoff. so I posted real about that and I received a bib from iFit based on qualifying and missing the cutoff. imagine four seconds that I would probably, I would sob if that happened to me. That reminds me of the, the, the person who ran on Monday, who wanted to qualify for the, ⁓ Olympic trials. And I think they missed it by like six seconds. Yeah, so I went through, ⁓ I went through a charity. I basically, you know, knew a couple of people that may have known someone at charity teams, which has a ⁓ whole host of charities that are supported by the Boston Marathon. Some of them official charities, as well as all have the opportunity to achieve bibs within the Boston Marathon. So, but I sent in an application and most of, by the time that I applied, most of the applications for the charities were pretty full actually at that point. But it just so happened that one day Fortier from One World Strong had come across my application and decided to have a conversation with me. So we had a phone call sometime and I want to say it was either September, October or something like that. And basically we talked very well about why I wanted to do Boston, what are the different things that really brought me to the race and also is the very large fundraising amount doable fee. which as I've come to discover this past week, was. So I went through a charity and it definitely helped me feel not only that obviously I'm fulfilling a lot of personal goals, but I was able to help a lot of people, I think, with what we raise. So I'm super proud of that. Awesome. Fun fact, Phil was on my, I guess what you can call the pre at your own pace podcast, what called ⁓ the where I interviewed people after marathons and then kind of paused them there. now I'm happy to have him back on the actual podcast now that I have this set up properly. So I actually got my bit by team Abbott. I ran New York City Marathon in 2024. And I say all the time, not a day has gone by that I have not thought about that day. It was one of the best days of my life. And I was talking to my coach's wife about it and my team. And she said, you know, Abbott released a team. You put in like your health story and what you've overcome and they select so many people. she was like, I think you're a great candidate for it because I personally, I've had open heart surgery. I had a congenital heart defect that we actually didn't know about and it when I was 17. And ⁓ I I was the oldest person, Chelsea's hospital, Philadelphia had ever seen with that condition that hadn't been admitted for like complications or a heart attack. So I submitted my story ⁓ and did that back in November. I had selected New York city for this year and I saw Boston on there ⁓ and was like, I mean, it's a long shot, but like, why not? And I selected it and thought nothing of it and went about my life. And then January 23rd, I got an email that I had been selected and I had 12 weeks to train. so I probably should have been keeping like a good weekly mileage knowing I put in that application, coming off the holidays, I was maybe running five, 10 days a week or five, 10 miles a week. And I instantly had to ramp up into 20 miles the next week and just keep going. Cause I only had 12 weeks to get it together. Now I see your hoodie and I'm, assuming that this is definitely not your first Boston. No. But what did running Boston mean to you personally besides just receiving them? ⁓ I grew up in Framingham, which is one of the beginning towns on the course ⁓ grew up here, ⁓ here for most of my. early life until my thirties and moved to Connecticut for some years and moved back home two years ago. And when we moved back home, we moved to Newton. And it was just kind of crazy where we ended up living. It was like it was meant to be. Yeah. So running this Boston ⁓ was special than the other three that I had run before just living on the course and getting to run my hometown race as a resident. The other three times I ran it, I was living in Connecticut. So ⁓ this was just the most meaningful one to me. I mean, it was a dream I didn't think was going to be possible. You know, obviously as a slower runner, I know that charity is really the only route that's going to be available to me. in back of my head, I was like pocketing that for something like 10 years down the road when I had enough money to be able to. ⁓ Comfortably say whatever I don't raise I can afford to pay out of pocket. So getting that bib Literally felt like the way I compare it is it's like the Super Bowl for runners Like that's how I would explain it to my family and friends who aren't runners. This is an actual dream come true So being able to run it was just absolutely incredible and being able to experience the weekend and you know Bring my husband along with me who he is a runner, but he's not Broad Street was always what he said like was his cap when it came to running. So he's not a distance runner to the extent that I am. So was really fun to bring him into it and let him feel the energy and the vibes of the whole city all weekend. I think I was trying to keep a cry count. I think it was at least 20 times throughout the weekend, just from happiness and joy and just pride that I was even able to be there. They do have a strict cutoff. If you don't make it to finish line by this time, you don't get an official finishing time. You don't get your star. So I'm going to have to... fundraise at some point to go back for my star if I want to get all six world majors. But it was just, it just gives me that much more like fire to come back and experience the course in a different way because I don't think I had the traditional experience a lot of people do because I was a slower runner and I was in the back. I want to come back and I want to experience the course like to its fullest. I didn't have the same crowd support and aid stations and stuff like that that everyone else had. And I really want to like fully experience it. So I will be back. Boston of the races that I kind of, you know, when I first started this journey of thinking I was going to do, you know, Boston felt the most out of reach for me just simply because it felt like one of the most exclusive races in the world. You know, I'm not, you know, I'm not someone who at this, in my current fitness level, in my current Boston qualifier sort of, sort of person. Am I going to continue to work for that? A hundred percent. I don't think I see that. train stopping. But for me, Boston always felt like that, that super, super high benchmark. And I oftentimes even when I started this, if you asked me a couple years ago, if I would be running the Boston Marathon, I would have laughed in your face and just said, absolutely not, not fast that that race is only for fast runners that that race is only for a certain subset of people. And so when I got the opportunity to raise funds for charity, and I really thought about it, I really you know, it really started opening up my eyes and really discovering about all the different ways to run the race, but also just that like, this is something that I truly never thought I was able to achieve. know, I thought I would never be able to achieve a place. And so stepping on that start line felt so special, even compared with the other marathons I've run, just because I seriously, without a doubt, never thought I would stand there. And was so happy to. I never felt like I wasn't, you know, celebrated or included, especially amongst the other people that I was writing with. So it was an amazing opportunity. was an amazing experience just to have with everyone and to celebrate it with everyone. with the course itself, ⁓ portion hit you the hardest? And when you, when it hit you, was it where you expected it to be? it definitely did. mean, Newton sucked, but I think, because I did such a deep dive, did, I, ⁓ I reviewed so many different analyses. looked at so many different course descriptions, elevation descriptions down to like the foot and just making sure that I was well prepared. think just making it through the course, obviously Newton and Heartbreak Hill is like, and I would say actually the first of the four Newton Hills that they described, the second hill I think around, I believe that's somewhere between 17 and 18, that one hit me. pretty hard. And I was just like, ⁓ we are in it. Okay, all right. ⁓ we are elevating. And I felt, but I still felt like my pacing to that point was pretty good. Once heartbreak hit, and the people were encouraging me and just telling me like, you're, you're there, you're not quite over it yet, but you're there, it really started to hit more and more and more. And then once I crested heartbreak, that feeling was just phenomenal. And then the rest of the race was kind of a blackout for me just because it felt because my legs were where I gave it up to whatever Heavenly Father and said, just do what you're going to do at that point. But definitely midway through heartbreak and then kind of cresting it kind of really that showed me the race's true colors in terms of how it really can be. Honestly, I feel like I had trained so hard for New York and everyone talked about how hard New York was with the elevation that with Boston, I kind of went into it like, well, it's the elevation is completely different. The course was a lot, they say it's a net downhill course, but like there's a lot of rolling hills and it's not like in my head, I'm thinking, okay, rolling hill. Like I was thinking small hills, like even like the first like two miles, there was points where I'm like looking up and I'm like, this was not mentioned to me at all. So I think the course overall, like it really can trick yourself into thinking it's going to be easier because it's net downhill, but those rolling hills really did, they kicked my butt. So running through Framingham, the town I grew up in, I think that hit me the hardest. And I actually did get pretty emotional. My mother was diagnosed with Alzheimer's about six months ago, and it's been rough. My mom and my stepdad were supposed to be out on the course in Framingham, but because it was pretty chilly that morning, I told them, I don't want you standing around. Don't worry about it. So they were tracking me on their phone. Yeah, I got pretty emotional in Framingham that morning. I mean, that is really cool though that you lived in two places now along the Boston Marathon course. feel like it's just you and the Boston Marathon, feel like are just meant to be for the next uncertain amount of time. want to jump to the Newton Hills Heartbreak Hill. For you, ⁓ and I know you've done this a few times, for this race, did it earn its name for you and was it a struggle at some point? Yes. So this was the first time that I was actually training on the course for the race this time. That hill, mean, and it's not a big hill. We all know that. And even on training, it just would feel like a struggle, probably because I tried to emulate the course. Like I would run out to Wellesley and come back. So I would come back on the downhills on my long runs and try to get the later miles of my long runs going up the hills. So it was a struggle during training too. But this race definitely, I really wanted to not walk on the hills because the other three times I just, couldn't get up those hills without taking some walk breaks. Starting at mile nine during this race, I was super nauseous and it just did not leave me. It was relentless. So yeah, the hills were just as hard as they've always been for me. think it did. ⁓ it, well, like it did. In the sense of, you know, like the origination of heartbreak of like someone seeing it in the distance and seeing it and having like Matt just like dropping their stomach of like, oh my God, I've got still got to do that. I didn't I didn't look at it and and think that when I first saw it, when I was starting to do it, that's when the heartbreak really started to set in. Also, bit of context, too, was that my headphones had died around my 16 and I don't train. without music, I don't do anything pretty much without music. was 10 miles worth of just hearing my wheezy just like happening. So I think the only thing that really supported me beyond that ⁓ and the heartbreak of being on heartbreak was the crowd just like, you know, saying my name and, you know, cheering me on and telling me ⁓ I keep going, I can keep doing it. So those added sort of stressors were present for that. I know how you train because I follow you and I know you love your music. I cannot imagine running 10 miles without my headphones. That's brutal right there. It was tough. I really relied on just, don't know where I went mentally at that point. I think, ⁓ good question. It was long, ⁓ I don't, and then I could see, like it was because of where it's at. in the race, I think that's what makes it so hard. I think if it were earlier in the course, it probably wouldn't have been as much like mentally or physically on me. But yeah, at that point, like I'm hitting the 20 mile mark, 20 point, what is it, six when you hit Heartbreak Hill. It definitely, I think lives up to its name just for the fact of where it's placed at in the race. Not necessarily that the hill itself would be considered hard in any other race. they did. Did it affect you in any way versus kind of the rest of the course? think I was already in like a weird place mentally at that point just because, like I said, I was a solar runner and they were shutting stations down, timing mats. Like, I don't think I had eight stations for water from like mile 15 on. So I think I was just already fighting like my own mental battle of like telling myself like, you deserve to be here. You are putting in the work like you're not going to quit. that like I didn't even really think about Heartbreak Hill at that point because there were so many other conversations I was having in my head just to try and get myself mentally to the finish. There was a woman I spoke to last year who was kind of in the same situation as you and I know that once you get to a certain point they try to have you move to the sidewalk and run and I think she got to like the last mile or two and then you turn on here for it and then you turn on Boylson and she said there are a group of people that she was with and she was like no. We're not walking on the sidewalk. They all got in the middle of the street and they all ran to the finish line altogether. And I thought that was really powerful. Yeah, they did do that to us. I want to say between about 23, 24, they started shuffling us to the sidewalk, which some of those sidewalks are pretty high up. So like that was a whole challenge in itself was like coming down off the curbs, on the curbs, weaving throughout people. And then like when I would see like an opening, but like the spotters were. all the way back there. I would hop back on the course for a little bit until I'd see them ride their bikes along and then cut us off again. So yeah, that was kind of rough, getting on and off. And then finally, I want to say by the sicko sign, I got back on the course and I didn't get pushed back off after that. Now that we've crossed the line, now that we're done with Boston, what is your next chapter? What are you chasing next? Is it a PR? you going after a star, a six-star finisher, or are you trying to go ahead and qualify again for next year? Yeah, I think... You know, so I was considering a couple of other things, you know, there was a couple of other road races that my friends kind of want to want to do. And one in particular in New Jersey, ⁓ forgot exactly where somewhere is how person want to say around as very parkish type thing. But I think there's a half marathon and my friend, it would be my friend's first half marathon. And so she really wants me, you know, one, it does hit a good spot in the, my training block for Berlin. But also it would be, you know, it would just be great to help her through one of her races that she never thought she'd be able to accomplish. So that's probably one of the more important things that I'm kind of looking forward to as sort of the year progresses. Now you've got Boston done. So you have, is this three stars you have now? This is number four. Number four. Okay. So what do you have left? So I am signed up to do Berlin later this year. So I'm super excited. And I am in the, I'm in the hunt for Tokyo. So then I'm hoping we'll figure that out as the summer progresses. So throughout the entire race, I kept saying to myself, that's it. I'm done with marathons. This was my 14th marathon, my fourth Boston. I'm like, I don't need to run a full marathon anymore. I just turned 55. The body is not doing as well as I wanted to do anymore. And I said, that's it. No more marathons. Well, you can't. qualify for Boston if you don't run another marathon. So I'm like, that's it. This is my last marathon, my last Boston. We're done. Yeah. Today's Thursday and we're a few days post marathon and I feel like I have some unfinished business. So with that being said, probably run a fall marathon. And if I'm going to run a marathon, it's because I want to try to qualify again. Yeah. I have the three US stars, Chicago, New York and Boston. As much as I would love to run the rest of them, the thought of traveling and sleep deprivation and time changes on top of the race anxiety that I already get for a marathon, I'm okay with not doing it. Media future, I just want to, for Broad Street, I just want to party pace and have fun with it. And I'm looking forward to the Brooklyn half. But one of the goals I have for this year before I even knew Boston was going to be in the mix was I really wanted to PR. All my distances, 5K, 10K, and a half marathon this year. So my coach, my running coach, has paid out through the end of this year. And I told him, like, we're shifting the perspective to just working on speed. Not because I'm ashamed that I'm a slower runner, but more for efficiency. Like, training runs take so long and it takes so much time. I actually took PCO for every long run in this training block so that I wouldn't impact my family time on the weekends and stuff like that. So I just kind of want to get a little faster for efficiency purposes of training. So I'm not out there for hours at a time. anybody that is either thinking about running Boston or has qualified for next year, if you could give one tip, what would it be? Anyone can do it. You just need to start slow and build slowly and add on miles slowly. I mean, I didn't start running till I was 40. Doesn't matter how old you are, how young you are, how slow you are, how fast you are. Anyone can do it. And I just think start slowly and you can start walk, run. Walking is okay. So yeah, that's what I would say. Create a support system because the Five Six group that I'm in. ⁓ They have never made me feel like any less. There were the days that I was putting myself down going like, I don't know what my time is going to be. I'm probably going to be slow. Don't bother tracking me. And every single one of them told me, doesn't matter. Forward is a pace. every single one of them had reminded me with text messages and messages on Facebook, on the groups, my pictures. and said, like, we don't care what pace you're doing. We are so proud of you no matter what. So I feel like the support system is really what makes the difference, at least for me as a slower runner to let me know that my pace isn't what defines me at the end of the day. And that, folks, is the first episode of season two of At Your Own Pace. I'm so happy that you're here. I'm so happy you listened to this episode about the Boston Marathon. You got to hear individuals before the marathon, individuals after. And I hope that some of you may have identified with my Boston Marathon experience because it was a tough race. It was a tough weekend. But. I got through it and on the other side of that is chasing the next goal. But there's a lot more coming in this season. I'm really excited for you to hear it. We've got some great guests lined up. I'm very excited for you to hear their stories. But if you don't follow me, my name is Mike Runs Marathons on all social media. So feel free to give me a follow. And if you like this episode, feel free to leave a comment or leave a rating. I love hearing what you think because I always want to make this podcast better for you. So it's a better listening experience. Until next time, I want you to keep showing up for yourself. I want you to push through the fear and anxiety to come out on the other side because on the other side of uncomfortability, it's progress. So continue to run your race at your own pace, and I will see you in the next one. Bye, everyone.