Latest / Nightmare Success In and Out / A family picture changed his life in prison - Mike Flaherty

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A family picture changed his life in prison - Mike Flaherty · Nightmare Success In and Out

0:01
What happens when your worst fear becomes your reality?
0:04
Hi. I'm Brent, Cassidy.
0:05
Welcome to the nightmare success in and out podcast, where we
0:08
explore a, how to overcome your fears.
0:10
And Nightmares is set yourself free.
0:13
We're going to be exploring this topic with guys that was in
0:15
Leavenworth with and others who survived their own nightmare.
0:20
These stories can be inspiring. Sometimes sad, there's some
0:23
humor but hopefully you can come away with a nugget of something
0:27
that will help you knock down some of the prisons you built.
0:30
It up in your own mind. All right, now I'm are success
0:36
and our listeners. We are back and this is where
0:39
you guys come for. What happens when your worst
0:42
fear becomes your reality, how do you adapt survive?
0:47
Overcome break free. So, I've got a, I got a great
0:52
guest here today and in fact, I had Rick gray on a few episodes
0:58
ago, for those playing the board game and this is his partner in
1:01
constructing Futures. And if you remember They are
1:04
guys that are taking guys and giving them the opportunity to
1:11
work on renovating houses and really giving and learning a
1:14
trade all guys at a prison and Mike is a really interesting
1:20
story of car chases On The Run finally getting you know, into a
1:27
seven year prison sentence and and then he's been out for ten
1:32
years, he's doing great stuff. So I can't wait to get into that
1:35
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And you know, if anybody likes just a piece of something out of
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keeps going on. All right, Mike Flaherty.
2:58
Welcome. Thanks for coming over here
3:00
today. Thanks for having me, Brent.
3:04
So Mike, we were just talking about you got it, it really
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interesting story of all the different things you've been
3:10
through kin, can you take us back a little bit because we
3:14
were just talking about your family and your siblings and
3:16
that what was life like for you as a kid growing up here
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assuming the st. Louis is all right.
3:21
Yeah St. Louis pretty normal childhood.
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We were all very pretty tight growing up.
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My father was kind of in and out.
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He was an alcoholic at times. He was kind of abusive, but my
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mom kind of held the whole family together.
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She was kind of the glue of the family.
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And how was that for you, though is a kid?
3:51
Would that type of environment with your dad kind of being in
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and out, kind of being abusive. Was it something where the kids
3:58
kind of all banded together? Was it like, Like, how did that
4:02
that affect you growing up? Yeah, my dad was kind of hard.
4:05
He was harder on me than the rest of my siblings.
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Yeah, it's twin sister and I were the youngest.
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Okay. So, my dad had high hopes for
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me. I was pretty good at sports.
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So he had he kind of pushed me. Where do you like to play in
4:22
sports? I played.
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Baseball basketball football. Did it all it all, golf?
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Tennis you name it, anything that you could get Okay.
4:32
My dad coached. Yeah, some of my little league
4:34
teams but it was always a crapshoot.
4:37
I mean you didn't know how much he was going to have to drink.
4:40
Yeah there's I can you didn't know which goes going to show
4:43
up. Exactly.
4:44
Yeah. I mean there was that's a lot of
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pressure as a kid. Absolutely.
4:48
There was a time I was 11 or 12 a little league baseball game
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and I struck out three times. My dad actually pulled me off
4:58
the field in the middle of the game.
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So yeah. Yeah, so yeah, he pulled me off
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the field in the middle of the game in front of the, all the
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parents and all the other coaches teams, it was pretty
5:13
embarrassing. So yeah.
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My dad, what was your mom's reaction at all that kind of
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stuff? My mom was, I think she was just
5:21
kind of subservient to my dad. Yeah, you know, she was from
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little old school. They got married when they were
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18. Yeah.
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So they were young, my mom never worked.
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But you know she took care of the house and the kids.
5:36
Yeah. It's kind of her role.
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So she was the tried to be The Peacemaker.
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Yeah. Well as you got older Mike
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getting into your high school years did things change?
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Or they all kind of stay the same type of cycle it changed
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when I get bigger. Yeah, Stronger.
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Yeah. You know, my Dad push me around
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a lot when I was growing up, he was kind of Abusive, physically
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verbally. And I think when I hit about 16,
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I was playing sports working out every day.
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I just had enough and me and me and the old man kind of went on
6:17
the front yard and I said, all right, let's go, it's go time
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and after that he kind of left me alone.
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So thanks for different after that things changed after that,
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that's interesting, right? It's like I can't I can't have
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my way this way with him. He's too big exactly.
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So I stood up for myself Self and I never, I was never able to
6:39
do that. Feel it felt kind of feel pretty
6:42
good. Yeah I'm not gonna lie and you
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were 16 at the time 16. Yeah.
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So you get out of high school. What do you do after that?
6:52
I went to college. Yeah.
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That was just a that's kind of when I got wild.
6:58
Okay, that was your wild times. This is this is the introduction
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to Wild. Yeah, I mean, High School
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experiment. Yeah.
7:04
With drugs and alcohol. But you know, how College it
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got? Pretty bad.
7:10
Where'd you go? I went to the University of
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South Florida. Yeah so you're down in Florida.
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Yeah, lasted there a year and came back to Southwest Missouri
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state is now Missouri State. Yeah my old man went there.
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He played basketball there. Yeah and now so I bounced around
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I didn't take School very serious but I mean I was more
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into the extra curricular which A lot of kids are not unusual.
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It's going on and that's when I started to get in trouble.
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I got my first DWI as a freshman in college.
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That's that could be a game-changer to because you know
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a lot of kids at that time are just lucky they didn't get
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caught right and that type of deal but a DWI when you're that
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young is very, it's serious. Yeah.
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It was for my first taste of jail.
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Yeah. Got my attention.
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Tension for a little while scared.
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You scared me? Yeah, at first and so the heat
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kind of blew over got slapped on the wrist.
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It was my first offense and then you know, I kind of forgot about
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it quickly. So where did you go from?
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Did you do all four years or three years there?
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Southwest Missouri. Yeah and then I did, I did the
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two years and then I came back and finished up at Mizzou.
8:37
Oh you finished up at Mizzou okay?
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So you did a little bit of you just a little jumping around
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here. Okay?
8:42
Well mizzou's, my place. Okay.
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For those down in Costa Rica, you have no idea what we're
8:47
talking about. Maybe, you know, a South Florida
8:51
but not Missouri. A state or Mizzou.
8:56
We love our listeners in Costa Rica, so so you finish up at
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Mizzou. Yeah.
9:02
So, where does might go from there?
9:04
I got a job a home builder. Okay, here in Santa explains
9:09
this constructing. Futures thing a little bit.
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Yeah, I actually wasn't swinging the hammer back then I was
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Selling Houses. Okay, so I got a job with a
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company called Rawls homes. Greg rolls, no Larry okay for
9:24
those guys for a while. Joined up with a company called
9:27
mayor homes. Yeah, and I was there a long
9:30
time with Randy mayor. Is that?
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Yeah, yeah, I know. Yeah, Randy and Dick and those
9:38
were, those were some wild days, you know, my work was good, you
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know, I was successful, I've made really good money but then
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you would have been pretty young, right?
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Yeah, I was in my early 20s and you were having success in the
9:53
real estate World. Construction Construction.
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Russian the new homes were booming.
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Yeah, I mean, there was a few developments.
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I went to were, you know, you just basically taken orders.
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This would have been in the 90s. This is late 90s early 2000.
10:09
Okay? Yeah, yeah.
10:12
So finished up my tenure and mayor Holmes came to an end and
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I work for several different Developers.
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A company called Highland Homes which is no longer around.
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But yeah, I was mainly in real estate.
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That's tell us what I did project management real estate
10:34
sales construction. So did you were you living a
10:38
normal life? My cord were you walking the
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wild side at night and going to work in the daytime?
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What was your what was your world like?
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Yeah, I wasn't, I wouldn't call it normal.
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I love to partake in the night. Life.
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I mean some days I don't know how I went to work and you're
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making money so it's probably easy to partake in The
10:59
Nightlife. Yeah, the money was was
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plentiful and trips to Vegas weekend, getaways to Miami and
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going out all the time way too much.
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Some I mean I hate to admit it but I mean some nights?
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I wouldn't go to sleep. Yeah, I go straight to work.
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I'm home for a quick shower. And I was living that kind of
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Lifestyle. So did you feel like that you
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had because you were dabbling in a lot of different things,
11:31
drinking and drugs. Did you feel like that it was
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just normal party stuff? Or did you think possibly I have
11:37
an issue. I mean in the beginning I
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thought it was just fun. You know, that's what everybody
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does. Yeah, but yeah, I became a
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problem because I continued to get into trouble.
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Yeah. So what kind of trouble were you
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getting into? I had a few more DWIs, you know?
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And that's that time period. Yeah, caught with drugs drug
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possession. There was a stretch of time in
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my adult life in my 20s, all the way up to early 30s, until I got
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incarcerated. I was on probation or parole for
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just tanika's years just consistently going through right
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and I was making Enough money to afford, a good attorneys.
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And yeah, I use Travis Noble. Yeah, Scott Rosenblum.
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Yeah, I was able to stay out of jail.
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Uh-huh. So I think I was probably living
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in denial thinking that, you know, I can, if I get caught, I
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can survive this and get to the next step, and it won't be that
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big a deal. Yeah, right.
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Exactly. Okay.
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Well, walk me through because you, you were describing for me,
12:48
that, When you're not your big nightmare happened, it was quite
12:52
a deal. Like, oh, yeah.
12:55
And you can you walk us through that.
12:57
I went out. It was a Friday night.
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I went out with my girlfriend at the time.
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A couple other friends. It was like any other night.
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I was on the run so I was kind of low-key meaning on the run
13:12
that you had a warrant out for you.
13:15
Had a felony warrant out. Okay.
13:17
My arrest they were looking for you.
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You. They were looking for me.
13:20
They couldn't find me. Huh?
13:23
Probably over 78 months. Mmm.
13:26
That's quite a while. Yeah.
13:28
It was it was. I was always turning my back.
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I mean, always look and I see a cop, I would freeze, you know,
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it was it was not, it doesn't sound like a good way to live
13:37
for seven or eight months on the run.
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It was not. So what actually, when I got
13:42
caught it was kind of a sense of relief.
13:45
You know, but then that's when the journey started.
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So, I left the house, you know, like any other night, we're out
13:52
at the clubs bars. It's probably two o'clock in the
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morning. I'm heading down Manchester Road
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and someone in the backseat friend throughout a bottle saw,
14:03
the sirens saw the lights. Heard the sirens and I told
14:08
everybody in the car you better buckle up.
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I'm not stopping on to a car chase.
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I knew if I stopped I was going go to jail, you know.
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So I was going to do everything in my power to not go to jail
14:20
that night and I did I took him on a three or four mile through
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subdivisions going through people's yards and was loaded
14:30
you know very intoxicated high on cocaine alcohol look he
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didn't die. Everybody else didn't die in the
14:37
car. Yeah I'm very lucky.
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So I got to the point where I got to the end of this
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subdivision, I was out of real estate.
14:45
So I jumped out of the car and took off.
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I'm running. I remember.
14:49
I'm running down the hill and I slid.
14:52
I had like loafers on. It was.
14:54
Yeah. Yeah, the grass was wet.
14:55
Not built for running. No.
14:58
So I jump up and there's a cop right there.
15:01
Oh boy. Right in my face, I turn around
15:04
and I hit him with the forearm. And I'll buy that point.
15:09
I knew I made a big huge mistake.
15:12
Yeah. And there was two or three other
15:14
police officers on the scene by the end and I just remember
15:17
getting tased and beaten for a while for a while.
15:23
What's it taste feel like it feels like the worst electric
15:28
shock of your life and you're just basically did you just fall
15:32
down when you get paralyzed or when you get tasered?
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I mean I've always seen In it, and it looks like, you know, it
15:39
looks horrible. I think I was sold loaded.
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You didn't even it took two or three times.
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Yeah. But that it hurt.
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Yeah. And it froze, me.
15:48
Mmm. But I, I pulled the Dart side of
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the first one. I got hit a couple more times
15:54
and went down like a sack of potatoes.
15:57
Wow. So even though that you were
16:00
pretty loaded, they handcuff you they've beaten you.
16:04
You've been on a car chase, I'm sure your it was like on, you
16:07
know, a thousand plus When you get put in the back of that car,
16:12
what's running through your mind?
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That kind of my life was over. Yeah.
16:18
I'm like I'm going to be gone forever.
16:21
Yeah, that's the initial thought, you know, because I
16:24
knew I had some serious charges so they take me in and I spent
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the night took me in St. Louis County.
16:33
I spent the night in jail, woke up the next morning, then the
16:37
nightmare really started. You know, I knew I was stuck.
16:40
No bond. Not even a chance to get out.
16:45
I was like I said, I was on felony.
16:47
Probation, it revoked my probation when they heard about
16:51
the incident, right? I knew I wasn't.
16:54
Yeah, no bond. So you what are your next steps
16:59
on this? Because I'm thinking that you
17:02
were familiar with attorneys. So you get locked in with an
17:07
attorney and say, hey, I've got some really bad news.
17:12
Yeah. Had to call an attorney.
17:14
Travis came up. He said, boy, you screwed up and
17:19
it's pretty scary. When attorney tells you that
17:22
says you're in trouble, he said you're going to have to do some
17:27
time, and I kind of knew that I think the first the first offer
17:34
the charges were, I mean, I think Charles going to six or
17:36
seven felonies. Mmm.
17:38
And I already been convicted of three other fellows, right?
17:43
So, yeah. They I think, the first amount
17:47
of charges equal like 35 years. Well, you came to see me.
17:51
He's like, yeah, they offered 35.
17:55
That's a lot and I hold and how old would you have?
17:57
Been at that time? We are offering you 35 years.
18:06
Around 30 years old? Yeah, yeah.
18:13
So you swallow that and so I guess, did you do a plea?
18:19
Bargain? Just continue to do?
18:21
Yeah. Bargaining of with Travis and
18:25
the prosecutor. Yeah, we went back and forth.
18:28
I was in st. Louis County for nine months.
18:31
It's a long time. Yeah.
18:33
So you know they why would I want?
18:35
I probably went to court 30 times and your parents and your
18:39
siblings at what's going on on the outside of this.
18:43
Yeah. I mean, my they were sick.
18:45
Yeah, disappointed, they didn't want to have much to do with me.
18:51
Yeah, honest with you. I think we're just done
18:55
constantly getting in trouble and I didn't learn.
18:57
Right. It just continued on.
18:59
And then now this is the big one.
19:01
Yeah, this was the big one. If you would have told me he
19:05
going out that night that you would have been.
19:12
So when it gets down, The sentencing.
19:15
Do you know what you're getting? He was working with the
19:19
prosecutor. That's why that I kept going to
19:20
court. Yeah.
19:21
He's like we gotta catch him on the right day so it was like any
19:25
other court dating Shackled up? Yeah, sitting there in the
19:29
bullpen and he comes over. He goes.
19:32
Hey, I got seven years times five, he said all run.
19:37
Concurrent said your first time down Going to prison you'll only
19:42
do 20 percent. Hmm, he said we need to take
19:45
this today. Mmm I said okay so I was
19:50
sentenced to seven years times five with the five felony
19:53
charges. Well let's I want to go back a
19:56
little bit with that nine months in County Jail.
19:58
How what was your world like? How did you survive the
20:02
day-to-day of County County was pretty.
20:05
Pretty rough because you can't go outside.
20:07
Yeah, limited phone. Has I read a lot of books, a lot
20:14
of push-ups. Yeah, anything to keep I
20:17
volunteered for work. Yeah, inside I was sweeping
20:20
mopping. Floors just to try to stay busy
20:23
right violence. Yeah, there was quite a few
20:26
violent acts that I've seen in in the county, I got into it
20:34
once in the county that thrown in the hole for a fight.
20:39
Guy trying to steal something from me.
20:42
Can't let that happen. So now it's we've talked about
20:46
this a lot on this show, is it? The county jail is in the system
20:51
of being locked up? It's the bottom of the barrel.
20:53
It was the worst and it's it's I think it's hard to explain
20:58
because I had six days and they were the longest six days, you
21:04
know. And I was, I had this in the
21:06
middle of my had been at Leavenworth.
21:09
For a year and a half and our Civil Trial started.
21:12
And I got brought back and I was out at Warrenton and and so I've
21:17
been in prison first and I was every day.
21:21
I was like, I can't wait to get back to Leavenworth, Prison at,
21:25
that's not a crazy statement but it was it was so different and
21:30
and you know, so transitory and you had all types and four
21:35
people in there for DWI and somebody might have killed
21:37
somebody and it's just you never know.
21:40
You know what's going to happen around the corner, you know, the
21:43
next minute and County with all the people looking at serious
21:48
serious time. Yeah, 15 murderers rapists.
21:57
When you sit a seven plus five, what does that mean?
22:01
So I got five sentences. Each case was seven years.
22:05
Okay, five charges, right? Seven years on each charge and
22:10
they ran those concurrently current so they seven years
22:14
would take care. All five, got it.
22:17
So you're living with that and I'm thinking when you take off
22:22
from the county jail, you're taking a bus somewhere, right?
22:26
Yeah. I took a bus right to
22:27
diagnostic. Yeah.
22:29
On Terre Missouri. What was that?
22:31
Like, that was like, County. It's locked down to 22 hours.
22:35
A day as you're getting processed.
22:40
When I got to a prison yard, I've felt like our freedom.
22:43
Sure. Well, you probably hadn't been
22:45
outside for a while. I mean, it's like, you're and
22:47
you're free. Yeah, I'm overly National Center
22:52
and handball courts, basketball courts, the first day, and
22:58
Moberly though, I got into a fight that go actually my second
23:04
day there, Okay, I went to the canteen because the the
23:08
interesting thing about this is my cue you didn't go in just
23:13
cold to prison. You went to county jail for
23:16
nine, or ten months. So you as horrible as that is,
23:20
you had been conditioned a little bit to know what kind of
23:23
you're walking into a little bit.
23:27
What county you don't interact too much.
23:29
Yeah, people, but I mean prison, you have to your living there.
23:32
That's your neighborhood. Yeah.
23:35
So I mean the second day, I went to the canteen, loaded up.
23:39
I'm going to make this as comfortable as I can.
23:41
I came back with a big old sack of groceries TV.
23:47
All the new guy got a little things, so I was a Target.
23:50
Yeah, walking into the housing unit and I'll never forget,
23:54
there was four or five guys playing cards at the little
23:57
table in the day room. So your housing unit was it just
24:00
a big open area, bunk beds, Locker, your share individual
24:04
cells. Okay, with a top and a bottom.
24:07
Okay, I'll row. Yeah doors.
24:11
So it's two to two men. Two men sell ya to can't sell.
24:15
Okay, so yeah I come back from the canteen and and the first, I
24:20
walk in the door, I'm going up to the top walk and this guy,
24:24
they called Fat Joe yells. Hey, new guy, I'll be up to get
24:30
your stuff here in a minute and you didn't think you'd bought
24:33
that for him. No, here we go.
24:40
So I go in, I'll talk to my cell, he's like, yeah, he's um
24:44
try to take Fat Joe wants your stuff, he was a very large.
24:53
Yeah. So yeah about 20 minutes later
24:57
on the standing on the top walk and I see him coming.
25:01
So you know, Silly that I had Older guy he done 20 plus years.
25:08
So he's like, look, he has put all your stuff under your bunk.
25:12
You're going to be going to the hole, mmm.
25:13
Like, man, I don't want to go to the whole right now just got
25:16
here. Yeah, I don't like the whole
25:17
been locked up right counties. Like the whole diagnostic is
25:21
like the whole? Yeah, he's that.
25:23
Well if you don't fight them then you're going to be a
25:25
Target. You're going to be that guy?
25:27
Yeah, I mean he said you better boot up.
25:29
So he came up to my door, I opened the door and I mean, just
25:34
first thing, just blasted him and I don't know, it just like a
25:39
blur jumped on top of him. Next thing I know the cert teams
25:43
rushing in Mason MI and yeah, handcuffing me, take me to the
25:47
hole, that's how I started. But, you know, after that tell
25:50
him, they put you in the home, seven days.
25:53
That's quite an entry into prison.
25:55
Yeah, it wasn't terrible. Yeah, it was no fun.
25:59
Where's your stuff there? When he got back?
26:00
Yeah. Okay.
26:01
They took the stuff to the property where I'm okay.
26:03
When I got out. That's good.
26:06
Why is my celly was cool right? And you weren't going to be that
26:09
guy that they take stuff from which you know, in a primitive
26:13
world living in that you have to make sure that you aren't taking
26:18
advantage of. And that's its that primitive.
26:21
Well I was kind of freaking out after the fight because I hadn't
26:24
seen the parole board yet. Yeah.
26:26
You know. I want to see the parole board.
26:29
They give you a date this whole time.
26:32
I'm thinking I'm doing 20%. I'm counting my months.
26:36
Well it's a good time and everything is relative.
26:39
Yeah it's not good and after I got out of the hole, had no
26:54
issues. Yeah, I left me alone.
26:56
What about Fat, Joe? How is he?
26:58
After that, I never saw him again.
26:59
Never saw him again our song so I didn't issue.
27:03
So you had a good Celli. Yeah, you kind of introduced you
27:06
to the world so living in that world, you know, you're not
27:12
going to be there for a week, a month, just not a, you know, a
27:15
bad Camp. You can't get out summer, you
27:17
know, summer camp and you get to go home, you're going to be
27:19
there for years. What was your like, what were
27:24
you thinking? Like, what was going through
27:25
your head? What am I going to do for the
27:28
next? Just whatever.
27:30
Well I mean my life changed actually when I saw the Pro Bowl
27:36
because I'm thinking by them when I saw, I was still at
27:38
Moberly and I saw the parole board.
27:42
I pretty much had enough time to satisfy some be done with that
27:46
20 percent. Correct.
27:47
Okay. That was my minimum mandatory.
27:49
Yeah so so I'm thinking I'm going to get an immediate out
27:52
date. Yeah I'll never forget this.
27:55
I'm six weeks later. Sitting in my cell and I get
27:59
mail Department of Probation and Parole.
28:03
I'm sitting on my bunk and I opened it up and it said your
28:06
schedule to be released from confinement in 2013 and it was
28:13
not early 2010 at that time. Oh, so I got I'm like I got all
28:18
2010, 11, 12, and most of the 13 that's for more yours yours and
28:23
I lost it. Yeah, you know.
28:26
They see Army basically that's a conditional release 66%.
28:31
Yeah. What did deck really?
28:33
Because of the fight or that they just take everything into
28:36
account. Say we're just going to kind of
28:38
throw the book at him and have him.
28:40
Stay in here for a while. They said, you know, all the
28:42
multiple said you should have been locked up a long time ago.
28:47
We're going to make it up right here, right?
28:50
They say you're a danger to society looking back.
28:53
I probably agree with them. Yeah.
28:56
Like to hear it at the time. How did you take that?
29:00
I shut down. Yeah, then prison is a bad place
29:04
to shut down to. Yeah.
29:05
I mean I started I got angry. Yeah I started doing all kinds
29:11
of stuff, you know, I was running a sports ticket
29:15
gambling, you know. Just trying to keep my mind
29:19
occupied become a part of the prison World environment.
29:22
I'm like I'm going to be here for ya four plus years, I better
29:25
settle in and Yeah. Something did you have a prison
29:29
job? I did in the kitchen.
29:34
Yeah. So as you go along and getting
29:41
into this world are doing things, two things change for
29:45
you in any way things changed. I guess I was about 2 years
29:52
prior to my release. I'll never forget this.
29:57
I always believed in God, when I was growing up, I was raised
30:00
Catholic, I walked away from God.
30:05
But I started reading the Bible, I was in the hole under
30:08
investigation. I was accused of moving some
30:15
drugs on the institution, which this time I actually was not
30:19
good for ya, they don't care, right?
30:21
So I was in the hole for four months or five months.
30:26
It's a long time, it's Christmas Eve.
30:29
And I got some mail from my family, I seen All my nieces and
30:35
nephews growing up. Yeah, pictures.
30:38
I had you been in contact and visits and stuff along this
30:41
time. Period with them.
30:43
My brothers and sisters because you have a twin sister.
30:47
Yeah. Yeah she came to see me.
30:49
I think twice. Yeah.
30:51
My mom came to see me quite a few times.
30:53
Yeah. But that was my older sister and
30:55
older brother were pretty upset with me just kind of shut the
30:59
book on you. Yeah.
31:01
So it was it was Christmas Eve and - mail and I just something
31:06
came over me. And I just, I cried out to God.
31:12
I don't want to live like this anymore.
31:14
Oh God. Please help me through this.
31:17
I'll do my part and that was kind of a different type of
31:20
prayer that I, you know, usually prayed for get me out of this
31:24
God. Mmm, it's time.
31:25
I was kind of willing to do. I'll do what I need to do.
31:28
I'll take on my responsibility. Wow, that's interesting.
31:33
That's powerful it, do you think it was Seen all those family
31:40
pictures and seeing people growing up and thinking, I'm not
31:42
part of that. Yeah, I felt like a failure.
31:45
Yeah, I felt like that. I was missing life.
31:49
I think it's always Fascinating, when people hit a rock bottom
31:53
moment because because I had a rock bottom moment to and I
31:57
think it's you get one or two ways to go and you go all the
32:01
way down and never come back or that becomes a new beginning for
32:04
you. And it's always, I think, you
32:08
know, I don't know what that is because there's plenty of people
32:12
that hit a rock bottom moment, and they never come back and
32:15
there's a whole thing of books being written in people talking
32:18
about their stories of hitting a rock bottom moment.
32:21
They somehow it lights a fire to change, but it sounds like, it
32:27
sounds like you kind of just reach the depths of.
32:29
I don't like where I'm at. I'm tired of myself right now.
32:34
Like this anymore. I've done this up to this point
32:37
and I'm not good with it. Yeah, it just like you said, it
32:40
was Rock Bottom. You know, I just I looked at
32:44
myself in the mirror. Yeah.
32:46
Just hated myself. I'm like this is what my life
32:50
has come to. I'm sitting here on Christmas,
32:53
right? And prison prison in the hole
32:55
and the hole and I'm looking at Family Photos.
32:58
Yeah. Should be part of this right?
33:03
So that happens. How do you start taking steps
33:06
that are different than the steps you take?
33:08
And well, when I was released out of the hole I got back in
33:12
and I actually signed up for treatment on my own.
33:16
Okay, Department of Corrections. Yeah, treatment and work
33:19
release. Okay.
33:22
And I just stopped doing everything I was doing.
33:24
I stopped associating with all the people.
33:26
Yeah, they aren't. That were no good.
33:28
Yeah. What they think?
33:31
I mean they didn't, it is said clarities doing his thing,
33:35
right? Yeah.
33:36
He's cool. Yeah.
33:38
So I got transferred shortly there afterwards.
33:41
I finally made it to a work-release camp, which I work
33:46
for MoDOT for approximately a year, which would be on out on
33:51
the highways and doing work on the outside.
33:55
I was on the tree. The tree grew.
33:56
Yeah, it was down in Southeast Missouri.
33:59
Yeah. So they would take us out.
34:01
We cut trees down on the sides of the highways.
34:04
Yeah, a lot of people don't know that that goes on, you know,
34:07
when you watch the movie Shawshank Redemption, another
34:11
the wardens got the guys out doing all the stuff and whatever
34:14
they had. It's just a movie know that that
34:16
actually goes along and that. That's a real deal and you're
34:20
paying these guys, you know, too.
34:21
Three dollars a day and they're doing real work, that they be
34:25
paying a union person to do, you know, doing that stuff.
34:29
What, how did that feel being out and doing that on MoDOT?
34:32
It felt like Freedom. Yeah, so you went back to the
34:36
answer. Do you go back to the prison at
34:38
strip-searched and yeah, just reality does set on.
34:41
Yeah, it's the weirdest feeling. I had the same thing.
34:44
I had a job eventually, after a year-and-a-half being in that, I
34:47
would go and work and then come back and was like, I'm going.
34:51
Back to prison and then I get to leave tomorrow, but I go back to
34:54
prison at night. It's very strange.
34:57
I mean mode outworked us to. Yeah.
34:59
Nine dollars a day. Thank God.
35:01
I got a lot of work. Yeah.
35:04
Middle of summer. You're in full chaps.
35:07
Yeah, long sleeves. I'm hanging over over a truck.
35:11
Yeah. So when you, when you went by to
35:15
that, you know, you went from one prison to the other prison
35:19
because never any good to travel when you're in prison.
35:21
Isn't. But as you kind of get set up,
35:23
was it was it good for you to move?
35:26
Was it good for you to get to another place and this, even
35:30
more of a fresh start for you? Yeah, I think it was good.
35:34
The places I was in just they I was ready to go.
35:38
Yeah, you know the people especially after I explained
35:42
that when I when I started, you know, put my faith back in to
35:47
God, a lot of the people. Yeah.
35:50
Didn't have the luster they had before.
35:52
Yeah, I was glad. I mean, I was like a blessing
35:58
and it guys and work release. So you did you make friendships
36:01
there and and was yeah, yeah, I made several Several friendships
36:06
in the work release. I said, I remained in contact
36:11
with, I was released. Yeah, yeah, no, it's a short
36:14
time, right? Well, then your life gets going,
36:17
any think, you know, these guys that you're with every day, all
36:20
day, every day. You think you're going to be
36:22
with them for life and then you get back.
36:24
So, so you get through this work release.
36:26
And so you're thinking about, you know, you're getting close
36:29
to the door freedom. What do you start thinking?
36:33
Well I mean I when I when I got through with the work release, I
36:36
got picked up and taken to Maryville Treatment Center.
36:40
Okay. Which is all the way up like in
36:43
an almost the Iowa. Yeah.
36:45
Top of Missouri order. Yeah it was pretty intense.
36:51
What was that? Like a bus ride was a nightmare.
36:54
I'm sure. I mean it was a layover in Jeff
36:57
City for hours. I mean, you're Shackled the
36:59
whole time. Yeah.
37:01
Yeah, your wrist or purple. Yeah.
37:04
Box on your feet. You know.
37:06
So I mean it's very that it was miserable.
37:08
Hmm. I mean it was like, I thought
37:10
this trip to Maryville is never going to end.
37:14
Yeah, that's how once I got up to Maryville.
37:17
It was a different type of treatment to it was kind of an
37:22
accountability. Yeah, I was wondering if you
37:23
could walk us through there because I've heard people talk,
37:26
but I'm not sure if I really know what that's like that the
37:29
treatment part of how they Do it?
37:31
It was a more of a behavior modification.
37:34
Yeah, I wasn't aware of. Yeah.
37:37
I was always able to, like, rational, thinking behavioral
37:40
models that type of thing. Thank you.
37:42
Yes. Yeah.
37:43
They wake you up at 5:00 in the morning, huh?
37:46
The rest of the day you cannot lay on your bones.
37:48
Yeah. It's like a cult.
37:50
You have to make your bunk. Yeah, they have a they have a
37:52
program in the federal system called rdap where you have a
37:55
nine month program. That's a much much like that and
37:58
they've you go through workbooks and All the rational thinking
38:02
Behavior but I don't actually think it's bad.
38:03
I think actually that thinking, in that mind modeling of being
38:08
aware of how you do things and how you think probably should be
38:12
taught in school. Yeah, I mean they they went
38:15
pretty far. They have, they had families so
38:19
there was a chain. Hmm, there was a family
38:23
president, all the way down to secretary to there was all there
38:26
was a Structure. Yeah, that's what they were
38:29
trying to do build structure. Structure accountability
38:32
responsibility. Exactly.
38:34
Yeah. Yeah.
38:40
Nobody likes that because she's possible to.
38:41
Yeah. They called it.
38:43
Yeah, you don't like that. They call them pull-ups in our
38:45
tap and that's what it was and nobody likes that because
38:48
snitching is like the very bottom, rung of work.
38:52
What people thinking prison, but if you're in this program, you
38:54
have no choice. Yeah.
38:56
I mean, you had to do it. Yeah, I got pulled up for not
39:00
snitching. Right.
39:01
And I got put in front of the family and yeah, everybody
39:05
yelled at me. Yeah.
39:07
Said I was a piece of crap. Get a little hazing.
39:09
Oh yeah thing I mean it was it was hard to get used to but
39:13
there was a lot of one-on-one counseling which was good that
39:16
part of it Nea and neh. Yeah.
39:21
So I took her and I took advantage of all that.
39:23
How long was the program six months?
39:25
So you were there for six months.
39:26
Yeah. So do you go?
39:30
How does that work? So when you get done with the
39:32
program or You, Are You released?
39:34
Yeah, I already know. I thought I would get a little
39:37
bit of play on my out date. Yeah.
39:39
But I did the same amount of time no matter what.
39:44
So what was now that you've gone through this program, you kind
39:46
of got a structure and you've kind of gone through some hazing
39:49
and but you've probably put structure in your life of What
39:54
were you thinking as far as stepping out and, you know,
39:57
Society again? I mean I was, I was ready to
40:00
just get out of prison. Yeah.
40:02
Ready to see my friends, family. Yeah.
40:07
What you step out to what was like who picked you up in the
40:10
word? You go.
40:11
Oh my aunt. Okay, actually took me in.
40:15
Okay, my family was the trust was.
40:19
Yeah they were still still trying to build that back bridge
40:22
that over. Yeah.
40:24
That the night I got released at 1:00 in the morning Maryville.
40:29
That's odd. I live in Santa Claus in the
40:30
morning. Yeah.
40:31
They put me on a bus and took me to KCI.
40:34
Yeah, the airport flew back to st.
40:37
Louis back to st. Louis back then.
40:40
I think the plaintiff was 90. 95 bucks.
40:43
Yeah, I was in the airport. All night long.
40:46
I had to be weird that was wild. I got a cup of Starbucks coffee
40:51
in. It was like this is freedom.
40:55
Well yeah, because it would be kind of get sensory overload,
40:58
right. Yeah.
40:58
It was it was everything was moving fast.
41:00
I mean, only five years being gone.
41:03
Yeah a lot of things have changed.
41:05
What do you think was the biggest change from you being
41:08
going in and coming out just the technology?
41:11
Yeah, yeah just I don't I guess I didn't remember how fast
41:17
things move. Yeah.
41:18
A Even things move so slow, it's like slow motion.
41:21
I mean they're on their literally room, everything's by
41:24
a structured time limit. The only thing we had to do in
41:28
prison is go to our job. Yeah.
41:30
And be counted and become stand up.
41:33
You can go back to sleep. Exactly.
41:36
So yeah, so I got, I got back to st.
41:39
Louis, and shockingly my sister, my twin, my older sister, my
41:46
brother, my aunt, and my mom greeted me.
41:48
When I get off. So that was a really good
41:52
feeling. I bet it was So your aunt takes
41:56
you, which is a huge thing, because you and I were talking
41:58
about this before we even started the interview.
42:01
I mean, having somebody to come out to and have support is so
42:06
huge. I mean, you know, the, the
42:09
people that don't have that, I don't know how they make it
42:12
without somebody, helping them a helping hand because it's so
42:15
hard to get back into the world. So what, how did you get back
42:20
into the world? When I got out the first couple
42:24
of weeks, And I was kind of scared.
42:27
Yeah. You know, people were calling
42:31
found out at the same cell phone number, which probably was a
42:34
mistake. All the same people would call.
42:39
Yeah, they were got out the st. Louis small.
42:43
Smallest Big Town. Yeah.
42:45
So, I mean there, what are you doing?
42:48
Flirty I got a package for you. Yeah, welcome home pack it.
42:53
I'm like, I don't Anything. Yeah, I'm good.
42:57
So it was funny because I met Rick.
43:00
Mmm. That's when things started to
43:03
change because I was kind of like, weighing out what I wanted
43:05
to do. I want to go back into real
43:07
estate. Sure.
43:08
Do I want to do some kind of say, I didn't know what I was
43:12
going to do. Yeah, I didn't have a plan
43:15
employment, right? So my sister has a Ministry.
43:20
She helps she was doing a Hispanic Outreach, and
43:23
Chesterfield. Yeah.
43:24
Yeah, they own some trailers and Rick actually volunteered, some
43:28
of his services to her, they got to talking and he gave Terry.
43:34
My sister has business card. Okay.
43:36
And she's like constructing Futures, what is what does that
43:39
mean? Yeah, that's all.
43:41
I hope guys that are coming out of prison.
43:43
She goes from really my brother, just got out two weeks ago.
43:47
Yeah. And so he Rick got excited.
43:50
Immediately, what's he doing? She's like, well, he's trying to
43:54
Figure it out. Yeah so it's Terry your twin
43:57
sister, it's my older oldest sister got it so he's like,
44:01
here's my number, you know have them call me.
44:05
And so I waited a couple days. I do I want to call this guy.
44:09
Yeah, I called him and we started talking and I realized
44:14
he liked to play golf. Yeah.
44:17
DieHard golfer. Yeah.
44:19
The guys that I used to play golf with, I wasn't playing with
44:21
it anymore right now because there was a lot of a lot of
44:24
texture curricular after that. Yeah, ordering it.
44:28
So yeah. Rick and I play golf and he he
44:32
said, are you in a a Said. Yeah, I went to a lot of AA
44:36
meetings. Yeah.
44:37
Do you have a sponsor? I said, no.
44:39
Did he become your sponsor became my life?
44:41
I did not know that. Okay, became my sponsor and
44:46
shortly thereafter. I started to work for we became
44:51
friends. Yeah.
44:51
Like golf. He was my sponsor, my boss.
44:55
Yeah, the work when I was with the first year I was out of
44:58
prison, was a pretty difficult and I didn't have a driver's
45:01
license. Didn't have a vehicle Rick Doing
45:04
houses up in North County. Yeah, my aunt, staying with, in
45:08
Kirkwood. So I would have to take the bus
45:11
and Rick wanted me to is one of his sayings was.
45:14
I want you to chop the wood? Hmm, for you can feel the heat
45:17
either work as he could have, picked me up, I'm sure.
45:21
Yeah, past me, but he's like, I want you to take the bus.
45:24
She did. Learn ceiling Melody?
45:26
Yeah, for a while. So, I mean, it was to and Half
45:34
hours one way. Hmm.
45:36
All the stops, Metrolink train, multiple buses.
45:40
I'm yeah, yeah, that was every day.
45:42
Two and a half hours, they're two and a half hours home, but
45:45
you stayed committed to it. I did because I did not want to
45:50
go back to prison. Yeah.
45:51
And I looked a trick like this guy's been out of prison for 25.
45:56
Yeah, here's whatever. He's doing probably working.
45:59
Yeah. So I should probably listen.
46:02
I need to try something different.
46:03
My Way. Clearly didn't work.
46:05
Yeah. Well, it's a great thing about
46:08
mentors. Those, you know, if you find
46:09
somebody that's getting it, right?
46:12
And you know, that's working for them than, you know, you can
46:15
just plug it in and implement it because, you know, already know
46:18
that it's working for him. And if you stay on that track
46:20
and then it can work. Yeah.
46:22
I was like, I'm just gonna do everything he can to follow that
46:25
lead and Rick really cared. Yeah, I could tell he had a
46:28
passion for helping guys. So yeah, I mean, but, you know,
46:35
the first year was rough, but my life continued after the first
46:38
year, I started to get better. Yeah.
46:40
Sorry, to make more money. Eventually I got a vehicle,
46:45
which I bet felt such are like overleaf, big deal.
46:48
I'm like now I know why Rick system, take that bus and all
46:53
those trains. Yeah.
46:54
And I can remember one day specifically, when I'm standing
46:57
at the bus, stop walking down from the house we're working on,
47:01
and it's cold. It's pouring down, rain.
47:03
Hmm, Rick drives past. Me and waves that is tough.
47:09
Love. He told me he said it broke my
47:11
heart to do that. Oh man.
47:14
Well, I think what you guys are doing is, you know, I get a
47:19
chance. I get one of the great things
47:21
about doing this show. As I get so many different
47:23
opportunities to find people are doing really good things and
47:26
constructing Futures, you know, if we had something like that
47:30
and every city You know, you guys are taking in a lot of
47:35
cases, blighted homes, and fixing them up with people who
47:38
need an opportunity, like a real opportunity to your teaching
47:41
them, a trade and and it improves the look of the places
47:47
where ever you are. So it's a, it's a fantastic
47:50
idea. And and, you know, I told Rick
47:53
this when he was on talking about stuff, you know,
47:57
everybody's got great ideas, but the fact that you guys are
48:00
taking action with it, and Not easy.
48:02
I mean you know you know the people you're working with you
48:06
don't know if they're committed. Some of them aren't but you know
48:10
the winds that you get off the ones that you're helping.
48:14
I mean it's it can change their life.
48:16
Yeah, we've seen. We've had a lot of guy that
48:24
became an electrician. Yeah, that guy that went to work
48:27
for UPS. Our main thing is yeah.
48:32
Instructions. We have to do construction.
48:34
Yeah. Have to pay the bills, right?
48:36
But we're in it for mentoring. Exactly.
48:40
Mentoring them to see. Just says Rick did with you.
48:43
Yeah, I mean, now I do the same thing.
48:45
Exactly. Be able to give back, and that's
48:49
what a lot of the big reason I stayed sober.
48:53
Yeah, because it fills, you up exactly.
48:55
It becomes your passion. I aiso get that.
48:57
I may make sense to me. if, if you were thinking, Mike about
49:05
all this stuff that you've been through, because I mean, you
49:09
went through some stuff like, like, what do you think?
49:14
Because I know, you know, I know faith is a big deal for you and,
49:17
and family and that, but what do you what would be the thing to
49:21
our listeners out that you would impart to them about your
49:24
journey? What you've Send out to them, I
49:28
would probably tell them that no matter how hard or how uphill
49:35
battle you're facing that God if you trust and you actually
49:41
believe in your heart and your mind you'll see through anything
49:45
you make it. I mean last summer.
49:50
My 15 year old niece got killed in a boating accident.
49:55
Freaking and Table Rock Lake. Hmm.
49:58
My twin sisters little baby. Yeah and it's horrible and that
50:04
little girl were so close. I'm if it weren't for my faith,
50:10
there would have been the thing that would have pushed.
50:12
You could have sent me right back.
50:14
Yeah, down downward spiral, surround yourself with good
50:20
people. Yeah.
50:21
That's what I, that's what I thought.
50:23
That was the best decision I made.
50:24
Yeah, it's going to work for Rick amazing.
50:27
How that happened? Your sister meets Rick.
50:30
He's helping her out, he starts talking about what he's doing
50:32
and then she's like, well, hey you need to talk to my brother,
50:36
I mean, things worked out for me when I was actually obedient.
50:38
Yeah. To God and faithful.
50:40
Yeah, my wife, I mean you went a long ways with your way, though.
50:48
I thought it worked. Well, I think it's a great story
50:53
and, you know, What I think is great about the story is you
50:57
willed yourself to find a better way.
50:59
You get tired of what you were doing and he made it work and
51:02
that's a lot about what this shows about is that you know,
51:06
don't give up on yourself, don't you know, that you can Will
51:10
yourself through and it's not easy, you know, the thing of it
51:12
is if you step out of your comfort zone and get into that
51:17
weird stuff, that makes you feel nervous and fearful and scary
51:22
and all that. That's not easy.
51:23
But you'll find that You can kind of walk through it.
51:26
Let me stay with it and he stayed with it and that's what's
51:30
really cool about your story. Yeah, I mean, every day I get
51:33
to, you know, basically testify to men.
51:39
Hmm. Most of the need it at, need it.
51:42
Yeah desperately. Yeah.
51:45
And you know what the thing that you know, thinking about it, You
51:50
you pretty much earned, a diploma on your experience, your
51:54
journey that you've been through.
51:55
And you went through, basically a not to be a professional
51:58
through the treatment and everything else that you learn
52:01
to be able to really give these guys good advice.
52:04
Yeah. I mean I was like them.
52:05
Yeah. So they can but that makes it
52:07
more believable. You're not, you're not some
52:08
Professor that's come out and said, hey, I read this book and
52:12
this is what you guys need to do.
52:13
You can actually talk the talk, you've walked the walk and it's
52:16
so much more believable that way.
52:18
I think that's What what's gave me hope?
52:22
Yeah, I meant Rick and this guy he seems to have it all
52:27
together. Mmm.
52:29
Yeah I was just out, I didn't know what direction, my life
52:34
was. Yeah I mean he gave me hope but
52:39
you were open to it to you know that's I think that's another
52:41
tip to give people that are listening is that you also could
52:44
have been given that name and something that I'm not ready for
52:47
it. I'm just gotten out.
52:49
I don't know if I'm I'm not ready yet.
52:53
Yeah. And he could have missed that
52:54
whole opportunity. Absolutely but you gave him a
52:56
call and the rest is history. What I got out of it as like a
53:01
best friend? Yeah that's why it's a great
53:04
story and we go to Chiefs game. Yeah it's a lot of golf when I
53:10
got out of my life, would be so good today.
53:13
Yeah, I would have everything I needed.
53:19
That's a great way to end it right there.
53:21
I love that you would have never thought that is what it is today
53:24
but you walk through it all and you are where you are.
53:27
And it's a good stuff. You're getting the good stuff
53:29
back. I love it.
53:32
Folks for those out there that are looking for a book, I
53:37
actually wrote one called nightmare success.
53:39
You can pick it up at Barnes and Noble Amazon and go to Amazon,
53:46
even they're selling at Walmart. Leave a review.
53:50
If you get a chance on Spotify Apple, it just puts the show on
53:54
steroids. If you just take the time, go to
53:56
my page, scroll down and it says write a review.
53:59
Don't have to say much just just say something and go to bring
54:04
kasa.com and I love going back and forth with people.
54:07
They're on, leave me a message, if you can, like I said, share
54:11
the show. If you get anything out of this,
54:14
share it with somebody. Maybe could help them.
54:17
As I used to say, when I was going back and forth with my
54:21
email is in prison, stay strong, I'll do the same.
54:24
I'm your success in and out like flirty, thank you, man,
54:27
appreciate your story. Thanks for having me, Brian.
54:30
Talk to you all later.