Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Martyn Havell about his choice of Thin Ice

Transcript

Talks to Martyn Havell about his choice of Thin Ice · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blump. Pen Knife For doing quicker,
• 0:35
  quicker, quicker hamster with a blump pen knife.
• 0:41
  The Doctor Who Commentary Podcast I'm here today with a
• 0:46
  Virgin Hamster contributor, but certainly not a Virgin
• 0:51
  podcaster. Mr. I don't know how to say your
• 0:53
  surname Mr. Martin, Thank you very much.
• 0:57
  Well, there mate, it doesn't matter.
• 1:00
  I know you as bad Wolf. Yeah, that's fine.
• 1:04
  OK, before we talk about Doctor Who or anything, I'm going to
• 1:07
  quiz you a little bit about your podcasts.
• 1:10
  Sure. So what are they called?
• 1:12
  Where can we find them? And are there any particular
• 1:15
  episodes you'd recommend? So we got Bad Wolf, which is the
• 1:19
  one that we started with, and that did start out as a Doctor
• 1:22
  Who podcast. But then over the years, Jared
• 1:25
  fell out of love with Doctor Who, so we had to start covering
• 1:28
  other stuff that's on hiatus now, Personal reasons and you
• 1:32
  know, I've been recovering from surgery and stuff, so we're
• 1:36
  going to get back on that in September.
• 1:38
  I've got running down corridors that's also on a break until
• 1:41
  September. That's our Doctor Who podcast
• 1:44
  that I do with Chris Walker Thompson, who people might know
• 1:46
  as the Patrick Trouten voice on YouTube, and with Abby, who runs
• 1:51
  TT Productions 23. We come on, we talk about Doctor
• 1:55
  Who every week. We're currently doing torture it
• 1:58
  or we will be when we come back. The first series.
• 2:01
  And then I've got a new one called Martin and which I just
• 2:04
  launched and that's where I interview people that I find
• 2:07
  interest in. The most recent one was an
• 2:10
  episode with Joe Pasquali and that was great.
• 2:13
  And I actually went to meet Joe in person the day before
• 2:17
  yesterday. Could only give me 3 minutes of
• 2:19
  his time, but I got to meet him and he told me he loved doing
• 2:22
  the podcast and anytime I want him back on I've just got to
• 2:25
  send him a text. And I listened to your Toby
• 2:28
  Haydoke episode, Sure. And as I said to you, off Mike
• 2:32
  is, you know, Toby Haydo puts out a lot of podcasting and
• 2:35
  there's a lot of information I've heard from the man.
• 2:37
  I was hearing completely new stories from you, a lovely way
• 2:40
  with people as well. I notice you.
• 2:42
  You made him instantly relaxed. You do as well.
• 2:45
  I've listened to yours. But you know, have you ever
• 2:47
  listened to podcasts where you're like, Oh no, the person's
• 2:50
  not comfortable with the interviewer here?
• 2:52
  Like, yeah, I really hate that. The worst ones, The worst ones
• 2:56
  where you can hear them reading the questions and then?
• 3:00
  I don't do any prep, so you won't get none of that.
• 3:03
  Yeah, I've. I've stopped prepping as much as
• 3:05
  I used to. I used to be.
• 3:07
  When I first started them. I was really still it.
• 3:09
  Our first ever interview with Bad Wolf was Ky Owen, who played
• 3:12
  Rhys Williams and tortured Oh. My God, handsome man.
• 3:16
  And nobody knew who we were. Nobody knew what a podcast was.
• 3:20
  This is 2010. We have to explain.
• 3:22
  We have to explain what a podcast was and how you could
• 3:25
  access a podcast when we started.
• 3:28
  But he came on and he was great, very generous with his time and
• 3:32
  and great. And then yeah, I was very much.
• 3:35
  I had my questions and then I would ask the next one and then
• 3:39
  the next one and I would just totally ignore whatever they had
• 3:41
  said. But now I've learned to kind of
• 3:44
  pick up on something that they say and carry on with that Fred,
• 3:47
  and it's a learning curve. Terrible habit just talking over
• 3:51
  people. Do you know, like, I'm surprised
• 3:54
  any bugger comes back on this thing, you know?
• 3:59
  Well, there's a whole back catalog of the Bad Will
• 4:02
  episodes, isn't it? I was having a look. 14 years
• 4:04
  worth Almost. What may I say, thank you very
• 4:06
  much because I'm going to lose the next six months of my life
• 4:09
  listening to those. Martin, what are we here to talk
• 4:15
  about today? So we're going to talk about the
• 4:18
  Peter Capaldi episode Fin Ice. OK.
• 4:21
  So I'm going to throw some more big questions at you, Peter
• 4:24
  Capaldi. Yeah, you're my season 10.
• 4:28
  Your thoughts and the ERA as a whole.
• 4:31
  And I realize that's three big questions, but you got all the
• 4:33
  time in the world, so off you go.
• 4:35
  OK, people are going to hate me for this, but I find series
• 4:41
  eight and nine of Doctor Who borderline unwatchable.
• 4:47
  Wow. I think.
• 4:48
  I think they're terrible. The only episode I like in
• 4:50
  series 8 is Mummy on the Orin Express.
• 4:53
  I think that's pitched perfectly.
• 4:56
  Series 9, I don't think there's a single episode in there that I
• 4:59
  like. I mean, that's me and Series 6,
• 5:03
  so we're all seasons that are Series 10.
• 5:08
  I love it. Went back to basics and I think
• 5:12
  they finally got the Capaldi characterization down.
• 5:17
  He's still a bit grumpy. He's still very alien, but he's
• 5:21
  not an arsehole. And I think they made him a real
• 5:25
  arsehole. The reason why Gerard fell out
• 5:27
  of love with Doctor Who was Capaldi.
• 5:31
  He he out of the two of us. I.
• 5:33
  Thought you were going to say cheap?
• 5:34
  No, no. Out of the two of us, he was the
• 5:37
  one most excited for Peter Capaldi to take over.
• 5:40
  And not that I wasn't excited, but he he was like, yeah, the
• 5:43
  show is going to get really good.
• 5:45
  It's going to be fantastic. It's going to be darker.
• 5:48
  He got to the caretaker and he, he was just like, I can't watch
• 5:51
  this anymore. And then he hasn't been back.
• 5:55
  Jesus Christ, I can I tell you, right?
• 5:57
  So series eight was like my redemption season.
• 6:00
  So that series eight's my favorite Moffett season.
• 6:04
  People think I'm crazy, but you know, there you go.
• 6:06
  Everyone's got their loves and hates, right?
• 6:08
  Nine. I agree with you.
• 6:09
  I really struggle with nine. I think they're good stuff in
• 6:12
  there, but it's probably about as bad as it gets.
• 6:15
  And 10:10, I find it. It has so much promise and I
• 6:22
  think the first half of the season is really great.
• 6:25
  And as soon as you hit that monk Trinity, I'm like.
• 6:31
  It's sort of it's sort of mediocre city until we get to
• 6:33
  well enough of time and the Doctor Falls.
• 6:35
  Shame. I think there's enough there in
• 6:39
  series 10 to carry my love through and I guarantee when Big
• 6:44
  Finish finally get Capaldi because they always get their
• 6:47
  man. They always do.
• 6:48
  We fought for years they would never get Eccleston and they
• 6:52
  did, so they will get Capaldi. It will be this Series 10 era
• 6:56
  Capaldi that they go with, and it's a shame that most people
• 7:00
  have stopped watching by serious 10.
• 7:02
  It is cuz and Perl Mackie was such a revelation, wasn't she So
• 7:07
  good. A relative unknown in television
• 7:11
  terms. And and you know, we all have
• 7:14
  the same reaction that we do with these things.
• 7:16
  Oh, who? Who's going to be in it?
• 7:17
  Like when Matt Smith got the job, you know, and then she just
• 7:21
  turned up and rocked our world and actually I think put in nods
• 7:23
  all in there as well. Was a really savvy move because
• 7:26
  you had him, he could sort of do the.
• 7:28
  Comedy relief stuff. And then you had this really
• 7:31
  compelling Dr. Companion relationship going on at the
• 7:33
  same time. And what did you think of the
• 7:35
  university setting? I liked it.
• 7:38
  It made sense. It made so much sense that the
• 7:41
  doctor would set up at a university.
• 7:43
  Because you know, who better to be a history teacher than
• 7:47
  somebody who's lived through history?
• 7:49
  Just, yeah, it makes perfect sense.
• 7:51
  I like the Eliza Doolittle kind of relationship that he has to
• 7:54
  build these. He's building her up because he
• 7:57
  sees potential in her and she's just instantly likable.
• 8:02
  I I can't think of an episode where I'm like, I didn't like
• 8:04
  Bill in this one, but I can think of like episodes where I
• 8:07
  didn't like Amy or Clara or Rose or whoever.
• 8:10
  But there isn't one with Bill that I'm like, she's unlikable.
• 8:13
  I. Believe it blew a hole in her In
• 8:16
  that episode, though, Do you know, I was involved?
• 8:19
  I got up out of my chair and I was like, I'm not sure if I can
• 8:22
  keep going. It's just blowing a hole in Bill
• 8:24
  like it brings it back the. Sort of like a puddle of water
• 8:31
  or something. I wasn't quite too sure to think
• 8:32
  about that, I'm honest. It was once described as a wet
• 8:37
  lesbian in space. I think that's an accurate
• 8:40
  description. Do you know what about Thin Ice
• 8:44
  then? Did you like Face the Raven?
• 8:46
  Which was Sarah Dellard's first episode?
• 8:48
  I didn't. I'm interesting.
• 8:52
  Why not? I thought by that.
• 8:55
  OK, here's my hot take on Clara. OK, so.
• 9:02
  Very hot though, yeah? So when Clara first appears,
• 9:06
  she's a Riddle rat in an enigma wrapped in a puzzle.
• 9:10
  But she has no character. So by the time we get to Series
• 9:14
  8, we've got a new Doctor coming in and a companion the audience
• 9:19
  don't know. So Moffett then starts
• 9:22
  overwriting Clara a little bit to bump her up, and I think it's
• 9:26
  to the detriment of the Doctor companion dynamic.
• 9:31
  Yeah, I've not heard that type before, but actually that does
• 9:33
  make by the end of the season, you know, she's in, she's there
• 9:36
  in the credits. So she's saying that she's the
• 9:38
  Doctor, you know, in flatline she is the Doctor, Yeah, yeah.
• 9:44
  And you know, I don't mind the Companion taking a more
• 9:46
  proactive approach and stuff but I think had we just had, if
• 9:50
  Clara had just been that Victorian governess from the
• 9:53
  start and it we've just been that character, maybe this
• 9:57
  totally error would have yelled a little bit better for me.
• 9:59
  But yeah, I just, I I don't like Clara.
• 10:04
  I don't like the Doctor being an asshole.
• 10:06
  I don't. I it just doesn't gel well with
• 10:08
  me. And you go you get that bit and
• 10:10
  into the Dalek where it's like you can say goodbye.
• 10:12
  He's the top layer. That's not the Doctor.
• 10:16
  Oh, I love that bit though. My other favorite is I really
• 10:20
  love the state of Doctor, so I do like an asshole.
• 10:22
  You know, maybe because I haven't bit of an asshole.
• 10:25
  I mean, it could be done well, but I just don't think it was
• 10:29
  done particularly well. And then you got the part when
• 10:31
  he's regenerating, when he's saying to the 13th doctor, never
• 10:35
  be cruel, never be cowardly, never do this, never do.
• 10:38
  That's like you were a right old bastard at the start.
• 10:41
  Well, he's trying to teach you. Look, there's like, I lost my
• 10:45
  entire audience. All right, So don't.
• 10:48
  Yeah, maybe, maybe, Yeah. People like to point the finger
• 10:52
  at Chipnaw and Whitaker for like the viewing figures dropping
• 10:54
  down. But if you look at series 10 and
• 10:58
  series 11 side by side, there's a couple of 100 in it, like, and
• 11:05
  I think the BBC, they, they messed around with Doctor Who at
• 11:08
  this time. It was going out sometimes in
• 11:10
  April, sometimes in October, sometimes in September,
• 11:14
  sometimes at 7:00 PM, sometimes at 8:30, like nobody knew where
• 11:19
  to find it and when it was on. And I hope when Russell brings
• 11:22
  it back, it's the same time every year that it comes back.
• 11:27
  I think Rossie Davis has a very good understanding of
• 11:31
  television, when to put things on, how to market it, all those
• 11:35
  things that have been. That haven't been happening for
• 11:38
  the last, God knows how many seasons through Moffett and
• 11:41
  through Chippendale. And I think we're heading sort
• 11:43
  of back to the zeitgeist again, back where we were when Torch
• 11:46
  with Sarah Jane and Doctor Who were all on at the same time,
• 11:50
  From what I hear, You know, I'm going to whisper this into my
• 11:52
  mic very, But I know a few people sort of in the
• 11:55
  production. Apparently this whole spinoff
• 11:57
  rumor, it's way bigger than we thought.
• 11:59
  You know, it's actually going to be massive.
• 12:02
  Someone said to me the other day, whatever you think of that
• 12:03
  Unit spinoff, it's way bigger than that.
• 12:06
  That's just that's like the tip of the iceberg.
• 12:09
  So I think whatever's coming is going to be big.
• 12:11
  I knew there was spinoffs coming when they put that picture up of
• 12:14
  Shooty Gap while next to the sign and it said home of The Who
• 12:17
  universe. You don't put that sign up if
• 12:20
  you're not planning spinoffs. Exactly.
• 12:24
  Look, I should know what I managed to do Some new guess as
• 12:26
  well. We've gone completely off piece,
• 12:27
  but who cares? Interesting.
• 12:30
  So you weren't keen on face the Raven?
• 12:33
  I wasn't. And why did you pick Fin Ice?
• 12:37
  I love it. I love it.
• 12:38
  I don't know why, but I'm a sucker for this type of era,
• 12:42
  like this Regency kind of Victorian setting.
• 12:46
  I don't know why. I just It would be grim to live
• 12:50
  there. Let's face it, it it would be
• 12:52
  horrible. Like everyone would stink you'd
• 12:55
  get cholera in about 10 minutes. But I don't know it it might be
• 13:00
  the costumes. It might be just a set and I
• 13:03
  just, I just really like it. And I like I don't like that
• 13:07
  they kill a kid, but I like that he stays dead.
• 13:12
  Yes, like in the market era, it's so often someone would die
• 13:17
  and then they found an air pocket where he's still alive,
• 13:21
  where the monster keeps their food alive until and this kid
• 13:25
  dies. Like this Real Bill learns a
• 13:28
  real lesson in this episode, and I think they handle racism
• 13:33
  pretty well in this. I want to talk about that later.
• 13:36
  We'll get into that. Someone froze us a question
• 13:39
  about that. In fact, there's there's two
• 13:40
  opinions in there on both sides of the argument.
• 13:42
  So maybe we'll get into the the NIT group, what you're saying
• 13:46
  about the setting. It almost comes with like an
• 13:47
  inbuilt atmosphere, doesn't it? I was watching this morning.
• 13:50
  I was like, God, this looks bloody gorgeous and I just feel
• 13:53
  like I'm there, you know? And you don't feel like you're
• 13:57
  in a studio at all. It feels like you're down on the
• 13:59
  Thames and that. Thames thing is that a studio
• 14:02
  that the the yeah. Hey, I mean, it looks terrific
• 14:07
  outside. Lit so well since dark.
• 14:09
  Invasion of Earth 2150 AD Maybe it maybe it's filmed outside,
• 14:14
  but it's definitely a set. And the bit where they're on the
• 14:18
  ice at night and you've got the silhouette of the city behind
• 14:21
  them and like the smoke rises, it looks great.
• 14:26
  So, all right, so we've got a great setting, we've got a
• 14:29
  reforms Dr. and fantastic companion.
• 14:34
  Do we have a good story? Oh yeah, Yeah.
• 14:37
  This is the one. I want a target novel of the
• 14:40
  most. I don't know how he is of light.
• 14:43
  Got a target novelization for this star?
• 14:45
  Women, I think it's just because it's Road and Man Rd. probably.
• 14:49
  Maybe. And I've known Rona, she's
• 14:51
  lovely. I I, I love Rona.
• 14:53
  But yeah, the Ears of Light isn't a good episode.
• 14:57
  I'm boring. Unless you're Fraser Gregory,
• 14:59
  and he absolutely loves it. He barely buggered like that.
• 15:04
  Well, we'll say we'll go into the episode in a second, but can
• 15:06
  I make a small confession to you?
• 15:08
  Yeah, go on. Thank you.
• 15:10
  This is my favorite Peter Capodi performance and characterization
• 15:16
  in his entire run. It might be mine.
• 15:20
  And you know what? It's because he gets to be very
• 15:23
  dramatic at moments and and white dog, which he does really
• 15:27
  well. You know, he's a brilliant
• 15:29
  actor, but he gets to be fun and playful as well.
• 15:33
  He gets to really show off his chemistry with Bill because
• 15:36
  they're barely apart throughout the entire episode.
• 15:39
  I just think you get to see all those different sides of him
• 15:41
  that you weren't really seeing in those earlier seasons.
• 15:45
  Especially the fun, the fun he's having with the kids.
• 15:48
  The fellow who accuses of being a con artist, you know, all of
• 15:51
  that stuff. And it reminds me, did you ever
• 15:54
  watch his performance in Good Grief, What's it called?
• 15:58
  The film with Dev Patel. David Copperfield.
• 16:03
  Thank you. Yeah, he's good in that, yeah.
• 16:05
  And it's that sort of playfulness.
• 16:07
  And I'm like, you could have been like this all along, you
• 16:10
  know, I think if if Capaldi's last series have been his first,
• 16:16
  he would be a lot more fondly remember the monster general
• 16:19
  public. And I know Doctor Who fans hate
• 16:21
  to hear this because they like to think of Capaldi as the last
• 16:24
  great Doctor, but the general audience really did not take to
• 16:28
  him. And I agree with that.
• 16:30
  You know, although I did have an amazing fellow come on and say
• 16:34
  to me, well, you know what, I don't care what the general
• 16:36
  audience thinks because this year is over now.
• 16:38
  And I love it. I said, well, fair enough.
• 16:40
  And you've got a lovely era to watch and good for you.
• 16:42
  But you're right. Yeah, we were Fraser's wife.
• 16:46
  Watch that scene you were talking about earlier in
• 16:48
  Incident Dalek. And she'd been watching all of
• 16:51
  Matt Smith. And she just went, I'm out.
• 16:54
  He said That line about the top layer over there.
• 16:57
  You know, so it was a it was a dangerous place to go.
• 17:01
  Apparently that was Capaldi's insistence he he wanted to be
• 17:06
  that grumpy. Also, everyone assumes it was
• 17:07
  Moffett, but apparently from what I've heard it was Peter
• 17:11
  Capaldi insisting on it. And then, apparently, he wanted
• 17:14
  to do all the sort of electric guitar Sonic shapes.
• 17:17
  Weird midlife crisis season, you know.
• 17:21
  It was a bit embarrassing, wasn't it?
• 17:23
  Yeah, it's like your your dad who moves like, not your dad.
• 17:26
  Like your your uncle who moves to Brighton and then?
• 17:30
  And then it just settles down. He's a is a university
• 17:32
  professor, you know, he's got like a bit of a mission to to
• 17:36
  redeem Missy. And it just feels like the the
• 17:39
  show's on and even footing again.
• 17:41
  Yeah, yeah, they got him finally, right Just in time for
• 17:44
  him to leave. They have a habit of doing that.
• 17:47
  You know, they kind of did that with Jody Whitaker for me as
• 17:50
  well. I feel like they finally just
• 17:52
  got the balance right and then it's done.
• 17:55
  Where was that? At what point was that for you?
• 17:59
  I still think Village of the Angels is one of the best
• 18:02
  episodes of Talk To You of All Time.
• 18:04
  It's fabulous. My favorite team is on a Punjab.
• 18:07
  I just think there's not an episode of Doctor Who like that.
• 18:10
  No, that's right. And when, see, we're going off a
• 18:13
  piece again, but I don't care. When it went back to that sort
• 18:16
  of more simple storytelling with consequences because people were
• 18:20
  dying left right on center in that season and staying dead, I
• 18:22
  was like, okay, this is kind of like a Doctor Who I can buy into
• 18:25
  again, would you know? What we should probably do, We
• 18:29
  should probably go and watch Thin Ice.
• 18:30
  You know, we've covered six seasons of Doctor Who in this
• 18:34
  intro. All right, Okay, so you care to
• 18:40
  count us in OK321? Let's go.
• 18:47
  What do you think of this intro with the elephant?
• 18:51
  It's so good and Bill's reaction just there's like a disbelief
• 18:57
  and wonder to a face And that that's perfectly sums up her
• 19:01
  character are. You sure that's a set?
• 19:04
  Look at the size of me. I'm pretty sure it's a set.
• 19:08
  I could be wrong. Somebody Toby Hayter is going to
• 19:10
  tell me I'm wrong. He listens to my podcast and
• 19:13
  despairs. You know at the fact you're an
• 19:14
  actress. It comes on to set me straight.
• 19:18
  So William Hartwell was my favorite doctor.
• 19:21
  Did you like? Michael Trouten was mine.
• 19:24
  You know Michael Trouten and Jean Patwit, the French Doctor.
• 19:28
  He was great. Peter Davidson Oh, I just love
• 19:36
  that TARDIS set. I pulled his TARDIS.
• 19:39
  Oh, it's so good with the bookshelves and and all that.
• 19:41
  He clearly took a trip to IKEA at some point.
• 19:45
  Oh, look at that shot. Martin of the of London All
• 19:48
  frozen over. That's perfect.
• 19:51
  Gorgeous. I don't know something about the
• 19:53
  snow as well. You know, this atmosphere.
• 19:59
  Perfect. You know the directions he gives
• 20:01
  Bill to go and find the clothes. They're the exact ones that Nyan
• 20:06
  gives Rose. Yeah, yeah, Word for word.
• 20:11
  So what was paying attention? I'm not sure about Peter
• 20:15
  Corley's hoodie, though. You know, I think he's still a
• 20:17
  little bit in that midlife crisis phase, definitely.
• 20:22
  I do love it at the minute. She already goes to her.
• 20:25
  What about your mate? What mate?
• 20:27
  Oh, when you stepped in that butter bite?
• 20:32
  Yeah, that's so cheap. She believes him for like a
• 20:34
  minute. She does.
• 20:39
  Well, that was the nice thing about her, though she did have a
• 20:41
  sort of naivety about her, which Clara didn't have.
• 20:44
  Clara seemed to be a bit of a know all.
• 20:46
  Yeah, straight from the get go. Did you watch Marsha Torchwood?
• 20:52
  Oh, I love Torchwood. Does this remind you a little
• 20:54
  bit of that episode meet in series 2?
• 20:57
  I hope in my head this is the same animal.
• 21:02
  Okay, it might not be. They probably look a little bit
• 21:05
  different, but in my memory they kind of look similar.
• 21:08
  And that creature is very unfortunate that in both the
• 21:10
  Regency period and in our time, it's being hacked.
• 21:14
  Various things go on then. What about this incidental the
• 21:20
  title music? This is perfect.
• 21:22
  You're joking. No, I love this.
• 21:25
  I love the graphics. I think it works so well if you
• 21:30
  just isolated this theme. Maybe I wouldn't like it as
• 21:34
  much. If you put this theme on, say
• 21:36
  Matt Smith's intro, maybe I wouldn't like it, but I think it
• 21:39
  works well with the graphics. You know that.
• 21:41
  What are those instruments called?
• 21:43
  You know that kids had in the 80s where you had like the flat
• 21:46
  bit and the the pencil and you made noises, Herman.
• 21:50
  Yeah, that's it. That's what it sounds like to
• 21:52
  me. Just a load of wine in.
• 21:55
  Well, do you often? That's what I sound like to
• 21:57
  other people, so well, this is where they're having the
• 22:01
  conversation about Pete. She's so earnest, isn't she?
• 22:09
  Oh, actually, that's a great look on him.
• 22:11
  That top happened. So isn't it?
• 22:15
  I didn't notice, by the way, that you came with Dylan Reyes
• 22:17
  on Twitter when he said, well, why is Doctor always going back
• 22:19
  to the Victorian period? It's Regency, you fool.
• 22:25
  Even I'll do that and I don't know anything.
• 22:30
  Actually, Bill's got a nice look as well, isn't she?
• 22:32
  Yeah, yeah, suits her. So do you like Doctor Who in
• 22:37
  history? Yeah, I'd say so.
• 22:40
  There's something about it. And there's a lot of stuff
• 22:45
  that's actually factual in this, with the the last Frost Fair and
• 22:49
  stuff. But yeah, how about you?
• 22:53
  Do you like it? What history or history
• 22:57
  historical when in Doctor? So the heart of historicals is
• 23:01
  some of my favorite stories I absolutely love.
• 23:03
  That's why I loved it when Chivas went very serious with
• 23:07
  this one season. I'm less keen now on the sort of
• 23:12
  celebrity historicals we got in Russty Davis as an early Muffet
• 23:15
  because I feel like it's sort of Hollywood history rather than,
• 23:20
  you know, dangerous history I think this is.
• 23:23
  Gets it just about right. You know, it's a bit fairground
• 23:26
  history, but it feels like it's got a bit of meat on its bones.
• 23:29
  Yeah, yeah, I'm with you on that.
• 23:31
  I love the look on her face as she steps on the ice.
• 23:34
  Here, look at her. Have you listened to The Big
• 23:39
  Finish Audio Frost Fire? No.
• 23:44
  Is that a Companion Chronicle 1? It is, yeah.
• 23:46
  It's a very, I've not heard that one.
• 23:48
  It's set during the great. Prosfare of London Town this
• 23:53
  exact period. You've got Even and the First
• 23:56
  Doctor around here somewhere as well, and you've got 11 and
• 24:00
  River Song with Stevie Wonder around here.
• 24:03
  As well, the Thames is busy at the moment and no wonder he
• 24:07
  likes going there so much he might run into himself.
• 24:11
  You love her a bit in a minute when she goes get in, when he
• 24:15
  gives him a right hook, it's great.
• 24:20
  Mind you, this is kind of what you want, isn't it?
• 24:22
  With a Doctor and a companion, go somewhere, have fun.
• 24:25
  I yeah, I I really. What I really like about turn
• 24:28
  left is at the start, you just see Donna and the Doctor having
• 24:32
  fun. With Boomtown, you just see the
• 24:35
  Doctor and the companions just having having a laugh.
• 24:38
  And I don't want a whole episode of them just asking around.
• 24:41
  But it's nice to get like 10 minutes every so often and just
• 24:45
  be reminded that, yeah, traveling with the Doctor's fun.
• 24:49
  I even like the rings of Akatan for that reason.
• 24:51
  You know, You know, when they're exploring that market and
• 24:53
  eating. I don't know.
• 24:56
  Capaldi's having a great time. I heard from somebody that the
• 25:05
  Mastiva Mofari was supposed to end with the wedding of River
• 25:08
  Song. So that was originally supposed
• 25:10
  to be, and he wasn't even going to get a regeneration.
• 25:12
  And the BBC had lost faith in Capaldi, and it was only the
• 25:15
  fact that Chibbers was doing Broad Church 3.
• 25:19
  That series 10 then came to be and he was contractually bound
• 25:23
  to do it, despite told that he was out basically.
• 25:27
  So he could have phoned it in this season and gone.
• 25:31
  You know, fuck you BBC. But actually, instead, he
• 25:34
  delivers some of his best performances.
• 25:36
  Yeah, yeah, he goes on strong. And if you go on strong, that's
• 25:40
  what people are going to remember.
• 25:42
  Yeah, if you think of the 10th Doctor now, everyone just
• 25:45
  remembers him whining. I don't want to go.
• 25:48
  Well, not anymore. Well, actually, he still said I
• 25:52
  don't want to go and die at the doctor, didn't he?
• 25:54
  Yeah. Why are these lights under the
• 25:59
  water? I can't remember now.
• 26:00
  I guess they're like pilot fish, don't they?
• 26:02
  I. Think I've heard of that before.
• 26:05
  You know I love this. That he stole the pie.
• 26:10
  Oh, and the pie is the meat from the creature, isn't it?
• 26:13
  Yeah, Story. Yeah, she goes.
• 26:17
  I hate that pie. Oh, I like that pie.
• 26:23
  Would you eat again though, after discovering what it was?
• 26:27
  I love pie. I would, yeah.
• 26:29
  I love a pie. What's your favorite pie?
• 26:33
  Steak. Oh, actually, yeah.
• 26:35
  Steak and kidney? Yeah.
• 26:37
  Chicken. Chicken.
• 26:39
  Chicken's good. Chicken's always good.
• 26:41
  This is the content that people come to handsome or blunt?
• 26:44
  What's your guest's favorite pie?
• 26:46
  Your patrons can watch us eat some pies next week.
• 26:51
  We'll do that afterwards, All right.
• 26:53
  I've got behind me. Look at all this.
• 26:57
  In fact, there's almost something to be mind robbery,
• 27:00
  you know, with that white void in mind.
• 27:01
  Robber this is so good. I just love that we just got
• 27:06
  this drunk urchin. Yeah.
• 27:09
  Is this the kid that dies? No, this is just some drunk
• 27:13
  bloke. So the fish are working in
• 27:16
  cahoots with the creature, is that right?
• 27:18
  Yeah. And then the creature is eating
• 27:20
  what they sort of, and I guess the fish get a little bit of
• 27:24
  that as well. That's nature, you know.
• 27:27
  It's a nasty thing. It's biotic.
• 27:28
  Yeah, I like this bit. Yeah.
• 27:35
  The Doctor straight away. He's not convinced, is he?
• 27:38
  This is a con. See how funny he is?
• 27:43
  Yeah. He should have just been this
• 27:45
  fun all along. So this is where it gets very
• 27:49
  serious. Because, you know, killing
• 27:53
  children, I remember, You know, You remember the ending of
• 27:57
  torture. Children of Earth child is
• 27:59
  tortured and murdered. To say that I know.
• 28:02
  I'm laughing. Sorry.
• 28:09
  But all of this sort of homeless kids, this reminds me a little
• 28:14
  bit of empty child. Doctor Dances, you know, A
• 28:18
  little bit, yeah. And all the kids?
• 28:20
  They're named after? Doctor Who companions.
• 28:25
  Are they what they called? You've got dot.
• 28:27
  Who's the girl who goes to them with the the lead that I guess
• 28:31
  that could Dorothy so that could be Ace so that could be Dodo And
• 28:36
  then you got a boy called Perry and I don't know what spiders
• 28:42
  real name is. I can't remember.
• 28:43
  I don't know if it's ever stated.
• 28:45
  That was me feeling sorry for Nicola Bright, because both
• 28:47
  Sophie Aldrid and Bonnie Langford have been given a shot
• 28:50
  in the new series. But Perry, your namesake is
• 28:52
  here. And for Nice, I'd be very
• 28:54
  surprised if she doesn't pop up. Oh, I'm sure she will.
• 28:59
  Honestly, they're made for convention appearances for the
• 29:01
  rest of their life now, didn't I think, Sylvester McCoy said once
• 29:05
  in an interview. People like how did you feel
• 29:07
  when you found out and you got the role of Doctor Who And he
• 29:10
  said, well, I knew my pension was sorted.
• 29:14
  Did you ever pick and Jane Baker saying that?
• 29:16
  I think it's in the terror of her voice commentary.
• 29:18
  Like, you know, they kept asking us to do Doctor Who and we're
• 29:20
  like, no, we're too busy doing films for Christopher Lee.
• 29:22
  We don't want to do that. And I've got you bloody idiots.
• 29:25
  That's a pension for you if you do that.
• 29:27
  So then they did it and loved it.
• 29:29
  It's true though, I'm. A secret fan of Pip and Jane
• 29:33
  Baker, I used to love what on earth that they made that ITV
• 29:37
  stuff. God, have you been transom
• 29:41
  objectified? But the backwards is, yeah, that
• 29:44
  was great. Remember, he could turn into
• 29:46
  anything. Yeah, yeah.
• 29:48
  The villain Jetta car. That's it, yeah.
• 29:54
  Oh amazing. I like this bit where Bill's
• 29:56
  like, bring it back. It's just like, I can't.
• 29:59
  This just shows the gravity of what traveling with the Doctor
• 30:02
  could be. But it does also show that he's
• 30:07
  changed. Because I don't know if you
• 30:09
  remember in dark water, when Clara goes to the Doctor, Danny
• 30:12
  Pink is dead and it just goes. And whereas now he's showing
• 30:18
  genuine remorse, but he's still slightly alien about it.
• 30:23
  And then we get this great thing here when she's like, how many
• 30:26
  people have you seen die? And he's like, I'm 2000 years
• 30:29
  old, I can't remember. And then she asked if he's ever
• 30:32
  killed anyone. And yeah.
• 30:36
  I loved it. He tried.
• 30:37
  Bullshit answer, doesn't he? And then she.
• 30:39
  That's not what I asked. Yeah.
• 30:42
  Do you have that before? This is a great performance from
• 30:47
  from Pearl Mackey and Peter Caballeri, and she's so facially
• 30:51
  expressive in her performance and he's so kind of stoic that
• 30:56
  they balance each other out perfectly.
• 30:58
  So why? Why could I not buy into Clara
• 31:02
  the way I combines a Bill? Because I really care about Bill
• 31:05
  and I don't want her to be going through stuff like this.
• 31:08
  So when she is my heart bleeding for her was Replara when Danny
• 31:12
  Pink died, I was going That's a shame in it.
• 31:14
  You know. I think it's it's because she
• 31:16
  was an enigma wrapped in a puzzle, wrapped in a mystery and
• 31:20
  we just didn't get to know her and like, if you.
• 31:24
  You did not. In that quote, then.
• 31:27
  That quote. We we just didn't get to know
• 31:30
  Clara well enough before Series 8.
• 31:34
  And you think you'd like Day of the Doctor.
• 31:36
  She's not. She's just there.
• 31:38
  There's no real character to it. She could have been written out
• 31:41
  of that entirely. Series 7B, She could have pretty
• 31:44
  much been written out of entirely.
• 31:48
  But yeah, I think Moffett just struggled to get that balance
• 31:50
  right. But I I love that Bill is just a
• 31:53
  normal woman. She's she's not pined after the
• 31:57
  Doctor since she was a little girl like Amy and River.
• 32:01
  She's not the most important girl in the entire universe.
• 32:04
  She's not saved the Doctor's life like Clara.
• 32:07
  She's not on a leaf blowing through the wind.
• 32:09
  She's just a a woman who works at a university couldn't.
• 32:14
  Have put it better myself and although hello Paul Mackey's
• 32:18
  good looking, she also looks like a normal person.
• 32:22
  Yes, it's the same thing with Catherine Tate.
• 32:25
  You know, she is attractive, but she's not.
• 32:29
  She's not, like, glamorous like Karen Gillan or Jenna Coleman.
• 32:34
  Thank you I. Couldn't think of her name.
• 32:36
  Yeah. And do you remember when she
• 32:38
  first walked into the university room?
• 32:40
  And and you know, she's the one serving the chips, and he gives
• 32:43
  her a chance to come to the lectures.
• 32:46
  The way that rapport was so great, yeah, yeah.
• 32:51
  Yeah, it was. It was suddenly very exciting to
• 32:54
  watch a Doctor and companion again and I think that's all
• 32:56
  those seasons lacks for me the dynamics great and again nodal.
• 33:02
  They finally get nodal right with this series cuz I don't
• 33:05
  know about you, but when he first arrives in like The
• 33:08
  Husbands of River Song. Troubling and it, Yeah.
• 33:11
  And I love Matt Lucas. So I've met Matt Lucas.
• 33:13
  I've been a fan of these for years.
• 33:15
  I used to love Little Britain. I guess some of it's probably
• 33:17
  not aged that well now. I've watched it in like 20
• 33:19
  years. But yeah, I've always, always
• 33:23
  lied to me. It always makes me laugh.
• 33:24
  But I didn't like Nardo until Series 10.
• 33:28
  I thought that scene in Oxygen where it's oxygen where they
• 33:33
  come back to the university. I'm not always pissed with the
• 33:36
  Doctor. And I'm like, whoa, Matt Lucas,
• 33:40
  where did that come from? Such a great performance.
• 33:43
  I'll tell you what Peter Capaldi has the only Christmas special I
• 33:46
  haven't finished. Oh, OK.
• 33:49
  I'm gonna have a guess. Oh, please don't say last
• 33:51
  Christmas. I love that one.
• 33:52
  Not that one. Oh, the return of Dr. Mysterio.
• 33:56
  I've never finished it. I got 20 minutes in and I
• 33:59
  thought fuck this. So I turned it off and I went
• 34:01
  for a walk. Oh, bless you.
• 34:04
  I've never, never been back to it.
• 34:05
  I've never finished it. I know what my least favorite
• 34:08
  Christmas special is. I think I'm mad.
• 34:11
  Everyone thinks I'm mad, but it's the only one I just can't
• 34:14
  engage with at all. Christmas Carol?
• 34:18
  Really. I have reasons, but I won't bore
• 34:21
  people during the Fin Ice commentary.
• 34:24
  Most people know already. I've totally lost track of the
• 34:29
  episode. What's going on?
• 34:31
  This is where the the setting. Yeah, he's reading to them.
• 34:35
  And he's actually, when I looked up the trivia for this, he's
• 34:38
  reading them a book that wouldn't come out to 1845.
• 34:41
  So he's giving them a brief glimpse of the future here.
• 34:44
  I'm about to say don't be that fan night.
• 34:46
  But of course he's a triumph. Of course he's.
• 34:48
  In the future, do you know he's reading that book like he'd be
• 34:51
  brilliant at Jack and Nori? Wouldn't he?
• 34:53
  Shame we don't have that. Yeah, you've got some good
• 34:56
  actors now that could do that really well.
• 34:59
  The thing is, you know when Peter Kamuldi smiles, he's more
• 35:02
  scary than any monster I could possibly put.
• 35:12
  Oh, this is nice. You've got Bill confiding in the
• 35:15
  little girl. Yeah, she.
• 35:20
  This is why I object to what happens to her world another
• 35:22
  time. And there's not to false.
• 35:24
  It's because I was so invested. Now I know.
• 35:26
  That's drama. You get invested in people and
• 35:28
  then terrible things happen to them the other moment as well,
• 35:33
  you know. Do you remember that sequence in
• 35:35
  The Lie of the Land where the Doctor makes her shoot him?
• 35:40
  That's unforgivable. I just loathe that sequence.
• 35:45
  So what did you think about the first half of this season, story
• 35:52
  wise? Pretty strong, yeah.
• 35:57
  Yeah, it's so strong. Up until up until the Monk
• 36:00
  trilogy, I was really enjoying it.
• 36:02
  And then it slightly derails a bit and it doesn't quite correct
• 36:06
  itself again. But yeah, the first half is
• 36:09
  great. Sorry.
• 36:13
  No, no. Good.
• 36:13
  Sorry. Good episode reminds me a bit of
• 36:18
  what's that Mark Gates run? Episode 3 is series one.
• 36:21
  Yeah, I'm quite I'm. Quite dead, yeah.
• 36:23
  Not just because of the Victorian setting, but this is
• 36:25
  kind of reminding viewers what Doctor Who can be, and that's
• 36:31
  all. That's what Mark Gates did with
• 36:32
  that one so brilliantly. I'm not sure you better that
• 36:37
  script. You like mark cases?
• 36:40
  No, I like Crimson Horror. Oh, yeah.
• 36:42
  Actually, I did that one recently.
• 36:44
  Yeah. You buy this hag Martin?
• 36:51
  Oh, this is marvelous. Where they wear the the diving
• 36:55
  suits. Yeah, I saw fans moaning about,
• 36:57
  well, they will pump oxygen things and someone's not pumping
• 37:01
  it. He soniced it all right.
• 37:04
  Oh, look at that shot for the background.
• 37:08
  But you could take a screenshot of that, couldn't you?
• 37:10
  And have you That looks so great.
• 37:12
  That would look good on a cinema screen as well though.
• 37:14
  But. You know, you know what else I
• 37:16
  like about this one, why this is one of my favorites as well, is
• 37:20
  it's kind of a small scale problem, you know, It's not a
• 37:24
  big unit. No one's trying to invade the
• 37:26
  Earth, you know, or Galaxy spanning issues.
• 37:31
  It's the two of them trying to save one creature from a
• 37:34
  terrible old racist. In an episode where they get to
• 37:38
  chill out and have fun and you know, do some nice quirky stuff
• 37:41
  as well, I don't think we get enough of that.
• 37:44
  No, no. If you think about their end
• 37:46
  objective is just saving this animal.
• 37:54
  I'm not sure how it works as a sort of a message for
• 37:57
  vegetarianism. I think ME did a better job of
• 38:01
  that, actually, yeah. You saw those horrible, great
• 38:04
  slabs of me in that, didn't you? Such a good episode of Tortured.
• 38:09
  Yeah, well, Kyo, it, as you said, that was the one where he
• 38:12
  really stepped out into the limelight.
• 38:14
  Yeah, I guess you needed to at that point because Gwen was
• 38:16
  already entrenched in it, so you needed someone to be the
• 38:19
  audience now. I'm about to.
• 38:22
  You said you're about to cover that, aren't you?
• 38:24
  I'm about to cover that shortly with with Fraser.
• 38:27
  We're going to do the whole. The whole together should be
• 38:30
  quite interesting. I'll come on for that if you
• 38:32
  want. Oh man.
• 38:36
  Anytime. Yeah.
• 38:37
  I'm always happy to talk tortured.
• 38:40
  Don't you love as well this bit of the minute where they're
• 38:42
  standing right in front of the eye?
• 38:44
  You don't even realize it is an eye until it opens.
• 38:46
  And you know, what works so well about this creature is you
• 38:49
  barely see it, so you get the little hint of its eye.
• 38:52
  You get like the size and scale of it, but it's kind of like
• 38:55
  with Alien, like you don't see the xenomorph that much, and
• 39:00
  Jaws, you don't see the shark that much.
• 39:02
  It just works. The suggestion is enough, isn't
• 39:05
  it? Yeah.
• 39:07
  And it is obviously a quite sort of terrified looking big teeth
• 39:09
  and massive eyes and all of this.
• 39:10
  And it's killing people. But ultimately it's a tragic
• 39:15
  it's a victim, isn't it? Yeah, Yeah.
• 39:19
  And you don't like how the show can sort of go to great lengths
• 39:22
  to show you the magic of the universe.
• 39:24
  And you open the TARDIS doors and you see the Earth being
• 39:26
  formed and you know the Flux event coming at you and all of
• 39:30
  this stuff, this is such a simple way of doing the same
• 39:32
  thing. We've gone under the Thames and
• 39:35
  there's this just beautiful, scary looking creature that
• 39:38
  they've got to save. But I think it's quite magical.
• 39:43
  Yeah, I like this guy. They meet this guy again.
• 39:49
  Yeah, he's fun. What you.
• 39:50
  I think Sarah Dollar does these side characters quite well.
• 39:52
  I really like Rixie and face the Raven.
• 39:56
  I thought he was quite a fun character.
• 40:01
  He had so many costume changes this season.
• 40:03
  Man. It was rocking.
• 40:05
  Yeah, it kind of annoys me that they didn't really do this much
• 40:09
  prior and they still haven't really.
• 40:11
  It looks like Shooting Gap was going to be changing costume a
• 40:14
  lot. I guess it's probably budget.
• 40:17
  Yeah, it's a lot cheaper just to keep Capaldi in a hoodie.
• 40:21
  I don't want to. I don't want Shooty to change
• 40:23
  every episode. I would like a, you know, which
• 40:27
  I'm sure will get, but it did at first.
• 40:31
  Jody Whitaker season where they were in all those historical
• 40:33
  stories and they were just wearing the normal clothes.
• 40:38
  Sorry, they wiped everyone's minds.
• 40:40
  Right. Yeah.
• 40:41
  What's she do again? I can't remember how she does it
• 40:43
  now. And then she never did it again.
• 40:47
  Although they did. They changed that in the second
• 40:49
  season, didn't they? Dear Darcy and things like that.
• 40:51
  They started wearing period costumes.
• 40:56
  Oh man, Why didn't we have a second season with Pearl Mackey?
• 40:59
  If she'd have just come a season earlier, yeah, one year earlier
• 41:04
  would have been great. She had a live and up series.
• 41:06
  Now I know it. I do wonder if Chibnam had seen
• 41:12
  this before, before he started writing, if it would have
• 41:15
  changed his opinion on keeping her around.
• 41:17
  But I totally understand the compulsion as a new showrunner
• 41:22
  to come in and just want a completely new Doctor,
• 41:24
  completely new companions and just and start.
• 41:27
  Because Doctor Who every so often it needs a new pilot.
• 41:31
  It needs to entice new viewers in.
• 41:33
  So I I totally get wanting to come in and just be like okay.
• 41:37
  We're we're starting from scratch.
• 41:40
  And it only happened a couple of times, didn't it?
• 41:42
  Like it happened with Spear from Space, obviously the original
• 41:45
  pilot Spear from Space. Is that it?
• 41:49
  Until the 11th hour, Rose works quite well.
• 41:54
  Sorry Rose, but yeah, you do need a jumping on point.
• 42:00
  Oh, look at that. Two of them peering over the
• 42:01
  fence. They're just so fun together,
• 42:04
  and I bet you can still see their hats on the other side.
• 42:08
  Fever sticking up. Oh dear.
• 42:12
  And you know what's great about this early part of the season as
• 42:14
  well is the the different tones and genres.
• 42:17
  They do a smile, which I'm not keen on, but it it definitely
• 42:21
  has a tone, doesn't it? A sort of sort of gentle science
• 42:24
  fiction tone period piece. Then you got, was it knock,
• 42:27
  knock, yeah, with the, with the landlord, yeah.
• 42:30
  David Shusay. Like a sorry horror movie of the
• 42:34
  week sort of thing. And then Oxygen, which is really
• 42:37
  dark and scary. You know, it's a fact by that
• 42:43
  very few people have touched Series 10 on this podcast.
• 42:47
  Wow. No.
• 42:48
  Idea. Why?
• 42:50
  Yeah, it's it's my favorite, hands down.
• 42:52
  I like that this is just basically the aliens.
• 42:55
  Pooh. Oh, Bill, just her reaction.
• 43:03
  There's great. No, she does it all with her
• 43:04
  look. She doesn't even need a line,
• 43:06
  you know. It means she's so expressive and
• 43:10
  it feels naturalistic as well. Sometimes when actors try and
• 43:13
  really express with their face, it can come off a bit
• 43:15
  cartoonish. Yeah, she's she's perfect.
• 43:18
  I like this where he says to the guy, oh, you won't be working
• 43:22
  here much longer, and the guy thinks that means a promotion.
• 43:30
  Oh, do you know what we're heading up for in a second?
• 43:32
  That sequence with the horrible old racist man Nathan Barley?
• 43:37
  Yeah. Is that the actor or the
• 43:39
  character? No.
• 43:40
  He played Nathan Barley in the in a TV series back in the day.
• 43:44
  His name's Nicholas Burns. Who's Nathan Barley Then?
• 43:47
  What shows? It was a show called Nathan
• 43:50
  Barley, and it's weird now because it was set before You
• 43:55
  Tube and before influencers and all of that.
• 43:58
  But it's about a guy who is an Internet influencer and it was
• 44:02
  made in like 2003, 2005 by Channel 4.
• 44:06
  And if you go back and rewatch it now, it plays out like a
• 44:09
  documentary. It's so I think it's written by
• 44:14
  Charlie Brucker. Where's that available?
• 44:17
  I'm going to go find that should be on Channel 4 or 4.
• 44:21
  Alright folks, off you go. Stop listening to this and go
• 44:23
  watch that. No, no, no, I'm watching now.
• 44:34
  Jesus Christ, keep me on track. That's the downside to this.
• 44:39
  Well, actually watching the program not like, well usually
• 44:41
  I'm alright, but this is such a pretty episode I'm finding
• 44:44
  myself quite distracted by the images.
• 44:45
  It feels really expensive. This It does, Yeah.
• 44:49
  I like this house. Wonder where that is?
• 44:54
  Now it is somewhere in Cardiff probably.
• 44:56
  I lost my over off, you know, he sits there watching it in the
• 44:58
  new series, you know, right, Because obviously sometimes they
• 45:01
  cut between London and Cardiff, don't they?
• 45:03
  In the same episode and he goes to London, Cardiff.
• 45:09
  Oh dear. So how, how do you feel about
• 45:15
  the doctor punching this guy in the face?
• 45:18
  I'm fine with it. I'm fine with it because we get
• 45:21
  the comedy bit here where he's like, now, Bill, we need tact,
• 45:24
  we need diplomacy. We need so, so obvious he's
• 45:27
  going to be the one to overreact and and punch the guy.
• 45:31
  But yes, so I've yeah, I'm fine with it.
• 45:33
  You know, Punches a racist. Who cares?
• 45:36
  And I I'm, I'm fully behind. I like, I fully endorse that.
• 45:42
  Racism is a terrible thing and you know that sometimes a blunt
• 45:48
  instrument is needed to make a win.
• 45:52
  I don't know if fighting violence with violence is ever
• 45:55
  the right approach. Maybe not, maybe not.
• 45:59
  I know that Nicholas Burns really struggled with this bit.
• 46:03
  They're saying these lines. Really.
• 46:06
  And what? Have you had an interview with
• 46:07
  him many years ago? I saw him talking about it and
• 46:12
  he said he struggled with it. See, like the My big issue with
• 46:19
  this is it boils down a really. A really controversial point to
• 46:27
  almost like a comedy moment and I think before now that's all
• 46:31
  we'd ever done is is you could just tackle the racism in a
• 46:34
  moment And then I think what Rosa told us was actually you
• 46:38
  can do an entire drama around this idea and not reduce it to
• 46:43
  something quite simple. I think it is important that
• 46:49
  that bill went through this or that we saw this side of time
• 46:53
  travel because you know, realistically she, she would get
• 46:56
  these type of comments going back.
• 46:59
  And I know people talk about forced diversity in this series,
• 47:02
  especially with like the kids, the Urchins and a lot of the
• 47:05
  background extras are like black and Asian and stuff and people
• 47:08
  are like, oh it's it's forced inclusion.
• 47:11
  Not really, because it's the 1800s where Britain owns Kenya,
• 47:17
  Britain owns India. We basically ruled the world at
• 47:20
  the barrel of a shotgun down by the docks.
• 47:25
  It wouldn't be weird to see people who were different races
• 47:28
  at that time. But yeah, I think, you know,
• 47:33
  build experience in it it it's it's realistic that that would
• 47:37
  happen. You know, my kid's a mixed race,
• 47:40
  so I've been looking into a lot of black history, especially
• 47:43
  black Victorian history. So around this era there were a
• 47:47
  lot of free slaves that would go on to be bare knuckle boxers and
• 47:52
  they would travel around Europe and they would have successful
• 47:55
  careers and they would get paid so much money.
• 48:00
  So the the first ever kind of black person buried in the UK
• 48:06
  was a guy about 200 years ago called Bill Richmond and he was
• 48:09
  a very famous boxer back in the day.
• 48:12
  So seeing black people around London this, this time, it
• 48:15
  wouldn't be as unusual as some viewers may think.
• 48:18
  But also like Nicholas Nickleby, I am entirely behind kind of
• 48:23
  blind casting because I think we've got just fantastic, you
• 48:27
  know, not just black actors, but, you know, all races of
• 48:30
  actors. And if we can bring them into
• 48:32
  historical dramas and see what they can do, all the better.
• 48:36
  Well, I say as as someone who's like kids are half black, I do
• 48:40
  kind of worry about the danger of doing that though.
• 48:43
  Because you, you know, you will raise a generation of people who
• 48:48
  always think that was the case. You will raise a generation of
• 48:51
  people who think that Queen Elizabeth had black advisors.
• 48:55
  There will be a generation of people who think Amberlyn was
• 48:57
  black, and you just can't help that.
• 49:00
  So I wonder if there might be a negative detrimental side to.
• 49:04
  Where's the the line then? Because they don't give those,
• 49:09
  those actors the opportunities. Yeah, I I mean though we're just
• 49:13
  two twats with microphones here. We're not we're not going to
• 49:15
  solve So what the issue is. But I do.
• 49:18
  I do slightly worry like what if what if my grandchildren, you
• 49:22
  know, they they're going to be pile black.
• 49:24
  Are they going to look back at this in the future and be like,
• 49:27
  Oh yeah, you know, we were there with Queen Elizabeth.
• 49:30
  Like, yeah, you watch something like Bridgeton, which is
• 49:33
  completely kind of like lasting, isn't it?
• 49:35
  That's also fictional Santa Hood, like a fictional reality.
• 49:40
  With lots of lovely bumshots, so you know, I've enjoyed it all
• 49:43
  the same. I had to get one thing in, all
• 49:47
  right. Just one.
• 49:48
  You nearly made me spend my drink out then.
• 49:52
  I'm always very restrained with new people.
• 49:57
  Oh, this whole bit is hilarious where Bill's going completely
• 50:04
  drowned out. And then he goes, right now
• 50:06
  you're done. Can you give me an with getting
• 50:08
  us out of here? Oh, he's brilliant.
• 50:13
  But this is the third Doctor. And Joe, this is the 4th Doctor.
• 50:17
  And Sarah, like I will say this guy's A pantomime racist.
• 50:23
  Yes, yeah. But I think the episode kind of
• 50:27
  called for it. You know, the the racist
• 50:30
  character that really gave me the chills was that, you know,
• 50:33
  that police officer that came to the motel in Rosa all sort of
• 50:39
  implied if I find anything wrong.
• 50:43
  And you know, it was a big blow because, well, you know, I don't
• 50:46
  think he raised his voice once. He was terrifying.
• 50:53
  She goes she's screaming red off.
• 50:57
  It reminds me of that bit and day of the Daleks.
• 50:58
  You know where Joe Grant's going?
• 51:01
  Oh, hello. Do you remember that bit?
• 51:04
  Terrible. Trust the old Sonic screwdriver.
• 51:12
  Do you know what I do? Kind of wish they'd get rid of
• 51:14
  that. Now I know it's something they
• 51:15
  market to death and they make a lot of money on, but all type
• 51:21
  sales, they're never getting rid of that, especially in our
• 51:22
  Disney, are involved. Anything.
• 51:26
  They can mark it now beat the meat is going to be everywhere.
• 51:29
  I'm telling you, Oh, I'm telling you, yeah, there's going to be a
• 51:31
  beat the meat plushy. Well, I'm going to buy it on you
• 51:35
  that that is something Doctor Who's been very lax on the past
• 51:39
  like say 20 years since it's been back is the Bill Potts
• 51:44
  action figure came out the week Jodie Whitaker's episode
• 51:48
  launched by her series launched the same week the Bill Potts toy
• 51:53
  came out. That's mad.
• 51:55
  And to show you how bad it's like a Bill Potts toy when Bill
• 51:59
  Potts was the companion. I'll show you how bad things
• 52:02
  have got they still haven't released the Series 10
• 52:04
  soundtrack, have they? No.
• 52:06
  We we've been promising in a recent Doctor Who magazine that
• 52:09
  is coming. Oh no, this poor fellow is about
• 52:14
  to be followed up by the ice and they and the Doctor makes him
• 52:19
  turn it up louder. He's like press the button.
• 52:23
  Always evil bugger, isn't it? Oh, so you can still be a little
• 52:29
  bit of an asshole? Yeah.
• 52:30
  See. Yeah.
• 52:31
  It's handled so well in this episode.
• 52:34
  The balance is perfect. Did you always said that, Bill?
• 52:38
  Miss Potts, I need you with me. It's almost like, What's the
• 52:43
  face, Mrs., Peale and John. So the threat here is that this
• 52:53
  enormous fish is going to burst up once once the ice starts to
• 52:57
  thaw. Burst up and what, consume
• 52:59
  London? Yeah, So what what actually
• 53:02
  happened around this time is the ice did actually crack this
• 53:08
  year. People did actually fall in and
• 53:11
  drown and and die. So they've taken this historical
• 53:15
  event and put a slight Doctor Who twist on it and it works so
• 53:19
  well. I think 9 times out of 10, when
• 53:23
  Doctor Who does that with history, sort of skewers it and
• 53:26
  uses it in an imaginative way to tell science fiction tale, you
• 53:30
  know, the great fire of London, the extinction of dinosaurs, all
• 53:34
  of that sort of stuff. It is really well done.
• 53:39
  But again, that's what made those those historicals next
• 53:43
  season slap in the face because it was just like, okay, We're
• 53:47
  just walking through these. Periods of history.
• 53:50
  We're not really going to have an impact on him.
• 53:52
  We're going to see the horrific things that happened and then
• 53:54
  we're going to leave. I think that kind of worked with
• 53:58
  Rosa, though, because there's a worse version of that episode
• 54:02
  where they make Bradley Walsh drive the bus.
• 54:06
  Yeah. Oh God.
• 54:07
  Oh, words. That would be appalling, yeah.
• 54:12
  So I think, I think in that case just being I know history has to
• 54:17
  take part, we cannot get out of our seats.
• 54:20
  A heartbreaking moment where he's like, I want to do this.
• 54:25
  Did you see that massive fish open its mouth?
• 54:27
  Then it's coming, Martin. It's coming.
• 54:32
  It's so good. And of course, because he is a
• 54:35
  big panto racist, he needs to die in a spectacular way.
• 54:39
  And boy does he. So people were just having fun
• 54:44
  on the ice. It cracked and they went under.
• 54:47
  Yeah, yeah. I think, I think it's 12 people,
• 54:50
  if I remember correctly. I read this years ago, back when
• 54:53
  this first came out. Yeah, the the Thames used to
• 54:58
  freeze over like this and people, they would have these
• 55:01
  frost fairs, but then when they started dredging the Thames more
• 55:05
  and they built different like dams and stuff along the Thames,
• 55:08
  the current speed up. So now it's it's no longer still
• 55:11
  enough for it to freeze, which is why we don't get it anymore.
• 55:15
  Some people say it, didn't they? That Series 10 felt like a bit
• 55:20
  of a return to the Rossi Davis era, where you had a sort of a
• 55:24
  companion that you could relate to, and it was doing that same
• 55:27
  sort of formula again of like a contemporary, a future of past.
• 55:33
  And even here, we're back in London again.
• 55:34
  We're back at the Thames, which has previously been drained, and
• 55:38
  all sorts of Levine's ships crashing into it, you know?
• 55:43
  I think, I think that's a formula that does work.
• 55:45
  I don't think it's what Rusty Davis is going to do again
• 55:47
  though I I don't think. I think he's going to do
• 55:49
  something a bit different. Yeah.
• 55:51
  I'm, I'm not excited the the former showrunner is coming
• 55:54
  back. I'm excited that the writer of
• 55:58
  years and years, the writer of it to sin, the the writer
• 56:02
  cucumbers coming in to write this stuff.
• 56:05
  And I know they're one in the same person, but I feel like
• 56:08
  Rtd's gone off and he's had such an exceptional career and now
• 56:13
  he's arguably more famous than he was in 2005 when this
• 56:16
  launched. It's going to be interesting to
• 56:18
  see what new experiences he brings to this.
• 56:22
  And I think he's too good a writer to trade off old glories.
• 56:27
  He can do something fresh and exciting.
• 56:30
  Oh boy. Bills running across the ice.
• 56:33
  It's cracking everywhere. The fish is coming.
• 56:35
  The racist has gone under. It's all going on.
• 56:38
  I think the ice cracking looks a little bit broke here.
• 56:40
  It's only part of this episode where I'm like that doesn't look
• 56:43
  100%, but it's fine. Not as bad as Remember when
• 56:47
  Cardiff started cracking in Boomtown?
• 56:51
  Oh my God, look at the state of Africa.
• 56:54
  You should have some dodgy effects in Doctor Who.
• 56:59
  I think you keep it real, yeah. I think whenever the show gets
• 57:03
  too expensive, there's always something that comes along.
• 57:06
  I never remind you, I think Impossible Planet and day and
• 57:08
  the moon the other day. And you remember the day and the
• 57:10
  moon has that amazing sequence on the dam and you're all around
• 57:14
  America and it's so. And then River Song jumps into
• 57:16
  the TARDIS and this little splash of water comes out the
• 57:19
  swimming pool with a pair of like, Oh yeah, it's still Doctor
• 57:22
  Who. That's a lovely shot as well.
• 57:29
  The fish going out. It's basically which home, isn't
• 57:35
  it, Yeah, and now goes to Cardiff and gets gets taken.
• 57:40
  You know, yeah, of course, But it's going to be saved by Reese
• 57:46
  and Gwen. Then they kill it.
• 57:52
  Can't remember and then inject it with bleach.
• 57:56
  They murder everything in Torchwood.
• 57:58
  You know, I wouldn't want to get star on Torchwood.
• 58:02
  You know Martha Jones got off lucky.
• 58:03
  She only got aged a little bit. Oh boy, that was fun.
• 58:10
  Oh, what happens here? I can't remember what happens
• 58:12
  here at the end now, so he forges the the guy's will to
• 58:17
  name one of the street urchins, Perry.
• 58:19
  They named him the successor. So all of this man's estate and
• 58:23
  wealth will be theirs, Yeah? And you see the doctor scraping
• 58:28
  whoever it was originally left to, and then, yeah, just
• 58:32
  blatantly forging the documents in front of the stuff.
• 58:36
  So nice, happy. And I didn't.
• 58:37
  Series 8, you know, he was just going, well, fuck you like I'm
• 58:39
  off, wouldn't he? If you like giving them some
• 58:42
  cash or something. But yeah, a.
• 58:44
  Couple of gold coins. Yeah.
• 58:46
  Dude, did you see the size of that enormous Christmas pudding
• 58:49
  on that table? Yeah.
• 58:51
  You're good, didn't it? We don't know.
• 58:54
  Eat that well these days. I.
• 58:57
  Know. Oh, here we go.
• 58:58
  Back to the. Back to the university.
• 59:00
  Do we know what's in the vault yet?
• 59:01
  I can't remember, not at this point.
• 59:05
  Did you know it was Missy, though I assumed it was at the
• 59:09
  time. No, don't comes in.
• 59:12
  He thinks They've been there the whole time.
• 59:14
  I like it when he says these are my tea drinking clothes.
• 59:16
  What? Does he say to her, Have you
• 59:20
  been off again? Ah, it's great and it's just so
• 59:26
  weird. Peter Capaldi, Pearl Mackie and
• 59:28
  Matt Lucas. This should not work.
• 59:30
  Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
• 59:33
  But you know, because it shouldn't work.
• 59:34
  It does. Three very disparate actors that
• 59:38
  kind of don't belong in the same series.
• 59:42
  And you know, do you remember, like in The Doctor Falls when
• 59:45
  Nardo gets that scene with a woman where their two cups come
• 59:49
  together on the table? Yeah, yeah.
• 59:52
  I just love this character so much.
• 59:53
  I don't want him to go a surprise.
• 59:58
  Big Finish. Haven't got Matt Lucas or or
• 1:00:02
  Paul Mackey yet to do something. Say three times mine.
• 1:00:05
  It will happen. Oh, it will happen.
• 1:00:08
  It will happen. I think Matt Lucas has done some
• 1:00:10
  big finish. Yeah, he's in an Eighth Doctor.
• 1:00:13
  I believe he was in the one doctor, wasn't he?
• 1:00:15
  One doctor. That's the one, Yeah.
• 1:00:17
  I think he was one of the disassemblers.
• 1:00:20
  Yeah, I think he's the big gel thing.
• 1:00:23
  Oh, the Jelloid. Yeah, the Jelloid, Yeah.
• 1:00:27
  Remember, you go out and they come round.
• 1:00:29
  It always happens. And they just think it's like a
• 1:00:32
  mosquito or something. I swear he's one of those
• 1:00:36
  robots. You know, where Bonnie Langford
• 1:00:38
  and Christopher Biggins are putting together those shelves.
• 1:00:40
  In it? Yeah.
• 1:00:44
  Such a fun story. That's amazing.
• 1:00:46
  I'm surprised that one didn't get adapted.
• 1:00:48
  You know, as a Christmas special.
• 1:00:50
  Yeah, it's ripe for it. So Bill's sort of come to the
• 1:00:55
  conclusion that she does still want to hang with him, even
• 1:00:58
  though he may potentially have killed people.
• 1:01:06
  Oh yeah, Here we go, down into the vault.
• 1:01:10
  Why Is there a water effect on it?
• 1:01:14
  Where's that coming from? But I do love that we learned
• 1:01:18
  that the guy. Eventually, you must have taught
• 1:01:20
  him the coin trick because he says Denardo tossed me a coin.
• 1:01:24
  And yeah, you know, I've recently been watching, I
• 1:01:31
  shouldn't really admit this, you know, on a broadcast, but I've
• 1:01:34
  been watching Neighbors 2012 episodes of Neighbors because
• 1:01:38
  Marv Raff's a massive fan and you know, you do anything for
• 1:01:41
  the person you love. And Sarah Donald.
• 1:01:45
  So there are limits. I know.
• 1:01:49
  He tried to make me watch Sons and Daughters the other day.
• 1:01:51
  I said no. I'm sorry, no.
• 1:01:53
  But Sarah Donald writes episodes during that period pretty good.
• 1:01:58
  Her episodes are pretty good. Yeah, I think most of them do,
• 1:02:04
  you know. Well, look, we've reached the
• 1:02:07
  end of Thin Ice and if you will indulge me, our friends on
• 1:02:15
  Twitter or X or whatever it's currently called, what is it
• 1:02:19
  called now? I'm still calling it Twitter.
• 1:02:23
  Yeah, I'm still calling it Twitter.
• 1:02:24
  You've seen that building is he's put that enormous X on the
• 1:02:29
  top of. I just love that he's just
• 1:02:31
  acting how I expect a billionaire to act with sheer
• 1:02:36
  arrogance. OK, so I will start if you're
• 1:02:40
  ready. Yeah, I'm ready, Fraser Gregory,
• 1:02:48
  the man of controversial questions, asks Snog Marry.
• 1:02:53
  Throw into the river to be eaten by a giant Frosty Thin Ice, The
• 1:02:58
  Crimson Horror or the Williams sections of The Flux.
• 1:03:04
  All right, Flux, they're getting eaten by the fish, OK?
• 1:03:10
  Snog Crimson Horror. And I'd marry for nice.
• 1:03:16
  That's a good answer. You get to snob, die in a rig,
• 1:03:18
  you know. That's all right.
• 1:03:22
  Oh, Rachel Sterling. That's probably a more
• 1:03:24
  attractive prospect. Probably, but you know what?
• 1:03:26
  It's Die in a Rig Luke is lost on, Gallifrey asked.
• 1:03:31
  Why is the Doctor so determined to save his Sonic over a young
• 1:03:35
  boy when he's got a whole pot of them back on his desk at the
• 1:03:38
  university? Because they're at the
• 1:03:41
  university. Oh yeah, cool.
• 1:03:46
  That's a very simple answer to that question, Brendan A Jones
• 1:03:51
  says. Great take on the butterfly
• 1:03:54
  effect conversation question. What type of story would you
• 1:03:57
  like to see Sarah Dollar do if she will return to Doctor Who?
• 1:04:03
  I guess the temptation would be another historical, but you know
• 1:04:08
  what? I want to see her do one set in
• 1:04:10
  the future, because she's done contemporary, hasn't she?
• 1:04:13
  She's done historical. Although I guess face the Raven,
• 1:04:17
  you could argue it's kind of playing with that Victorian
• 1:04:20
  sensibility because it's down a a temporal alleyway and
• 1:04:25
  everything's a bit old fashioned looking down there.
• 1:04:27
  But yeah, a futuristic set story I'd like to see.
• 1:04:30
  Temporal alleyway. That just sounds amazing.
• 1:04:34
  Simon Hart asks. How do how good do the Doctor
• 1:04:39
  and Bill look in their period close?
• 1:04:42
  Fabulous. Outstanding.
• 1:04:45
  Joe sure asks. Do you prefer historicals that
• 1:04:49
  explore the time and attitudes rather than those that focus on
• 1:04:53
  a specific event or historical person?
• 1:04:57
  Depends. Depends how it's done.
• 1:04:59
  I think that in the unquiet dead, Charles Dickens inclusion
• 1:05:03
  is handled very well. But in this instance, I prefer
• 1:05:08
  that we don't have a historical figure.
• 1:05:10
  So you imagine just I don't know someone from the the Regency
• 1:05:14
  era, I don't know who's famous. I don't know.
• 1:05:19
  Yeah, it depends. Depends on the right.
• 1:05:20
  It depends on the series, depends on the Doctor.
• 1:05:24
  But it can feel a bit shoehorned in.
• 1:05:26
  Would you say that the setting is the guest star in this?
• 1:05:30
  Is it basically the? Front it is, it is.
• 1:05:34
  Like I always felt, Churchill was shoved in the victory of the
• 1:05:37
  Daleks. Okay, we started on that.
• 1:05:41
  A fluffy Uncle Churchill who doesn't display one moment of
• 1:05:45
  racism. Anyway, I'll cover that
• 1:05:47
  elsewhere. All of Time and Space Podcast
• 1:05:51
  says Great chemistry between Capaldi and Mackey.
• 1:05:54
  Nicholas Burns is suitably horrid as the evil Lord
• 1:05:57
  Sutcliffe. Some lovely dialogue between 12
• 1:06:00
  and Bill's. Pete and The Butterfly Effect.
• 1:06:02
  Regency. England is more black than I
• 1:06:04
  thought. So was Jesus.
• 1:06:06
  So was Jesus. History is a whitewash, hashtag
• 1:06:09
  punch a racist. Absolutely, I agree with that.
• 1:06:12
  I dos that 100%. Here we go.
• 1:06:16
  Dave Rennie of A Kettle and A Piece of String podcast asks
• 1:06:22
  where was the follow up with the poo fuel being sold on the black
• 1:06:25
  market? Pick finish coming next year
• 1:06:29
  priced 3599 or possibly me from Torchwood Series 2.
• 1:06:35
  Yeah, possibly to finish next year, 3699.
• 1:06:42
  You think it's gonna be as cheap as that, dear?
• 1:06:45
  Which dogs are like going it LSJ?
• 1:06:49
  I never got to series 10. Probably should have it by now.
• 1:06:53
  I kind of stopped before Clara left and jumped back in with
• 1:06:55
  Jody. So I guess my question is, did
• 1:06:58
  Capaldi's era get better? It would be nice to watch some
• 1:07:01
  great Doctor Who I never saw. 100% If you didn't like series
• 1:07:06
  8:00 and 9:00, you will like series 10.
• 1:07:10
  Oh God, this is my favorite interaction, the whole thing.
• 1:07:13
  Dylan Reese, Doctor Who, Too hot for TV.
• 1:07:15
  Why does Ducky, Who always go to the Victorian era And then you
• 1:07:21
  say just very succinctly thin ice is in the Regency era And
• 1:07:26
  then Dylan says, well, now I feel like a fool.
• 1:07:29
  I shall rephrase. Why does the show pay for the
• 1:07:32
  1800s over many other historical eras?
• 1:07:36
  Does it just look so good and because so?
• 1:07:40
  Of the UK still looks the same as it did because we got listed
• 1:07:44
  buildings etc etc. You know you can, you can make
• 1:07:48
  something quite easily set in the Victorian age.
• 1:07:51
  In modern London you just got to find the right St. the right
• 1:07:54
  houses and yeah, you can just do it.
• 1:07:57
  Whereas making something look like the 1500s, it's a little
• 1:08:01
  bit more challenging. Well, I mean, look at look at
• 1:08:05
  Punjab where they had to go across, where they filmed that
• 1:08:07
  out. But it went overseas for it,
• 1:08:08
  didn't they? South Africa, I think way more
• 1:08:11
  expensive. OK Rod, who asked how shocking
• 1:08:16
  is the death of a child on the screen and how valid is the
• 1:08:20
  doctor's response? I don't.
• 1:08:23
  Know if it's a valid response, but it needed to happen, because
• 1:08:29
  all too often in the Moffett era we would have seen this kid come
• 1:08:34
  back at the end. There would have been an air
• 1:08:36
  pocket under the water where the fish stores its food until till
• 1:08:41
  it's ready to consume it, and then they would have got the
• 1:08:43
  boy, They would have got that fog.
• 1:08:46
  They would have got whoever else had gone under there.
• 1:08:48
  And the Matt Smith era. That would have happened
• 1:08:50
  definitely, and I think it's poignant and important to just
• 1:08:55
  show to Bill. Yet.
• 1:08:57
  This could be fucked up. Traveling with the doctor isn't
• 1:09:00
  just fun and roses. Sometimes people die.
• 1:09:05
  Brilliant. Yeah, I agree.
• 1:09:07
  Stephen Flanagan asked. Are there more child characters
• 1:09:11
  in Moffett's Doctor Who than in the whole rest of the series?
• 1:09:17
  Oh, potentially. But the child actors in this one
• 1:09:19
  are fantastic. There's not bad performance.
• 1:09:23
  The whole bad taste of Angie and Artie has long has been left
• 1:09:27
  long behind, isn't it? Yeah.
• 1:09:32
  It's always dodgy when you get a child actor because they they
• 1:09:36
  don't know enough yet to how to how to act.
• 1:09:40
  I'm not sure what this question means, but I'm going to ask it.
• 1:09:42
  So Stephen also asked, was Alice Frick right in 63 that children
• 1:09:48
  are only interested in older characters?
• 1:09:53
  No, I don't. I don't know the context of
• 1:09:57
  that. I guess maybe she was someone at
• 1:09:58
  the BBC. Maybe, she said.
• 1:10:02
  We don't want a young person in this.
• 1:10:03
  They're only interested in older people.
• 1:10:05
  Well, you have young children, so.
• 1:10:09
  Well, yesterday I put this on because I wanted to rewatch it
• 1:10:11
  and just refresh my mind. The second I put it in.
• 1:10:15
  Both kids stopped doing what they were doing and watched
• 1:10:18
  along with me. And then my son said this might
• 1:10:22
  be my favorite of the Capaldi years.
• 1:10:25
  And he's nearly 15, so it's hard to impress him.
• 1:10:28
  I think your son is a very discerning young man.
• 1:10:31
  You know all the children in the Moffett stories there as
• 1:10:36
  signifies to adults or the heritage of children's fantasy.
• 1:10:43
  I don't think it's that deep. But yes, yeah, I agree, Stephen,
• 1:10:48
  they were great questions. Thank you, Daniel Knight.
• 1:10:51
  The punch, heroic heroic moment, or gross display of
• 1:10:55
  inappropriate behavior, regardless of the fact that the
• 1:10:58
  man the doctor punches is a racist bilge bag.
• 1:11:02
  A heroic moment, though. I once fumped a guy in the post
• 1:11:06
  office for saying something about my son.
• 1:11:09
  I can't. I can't, you know, say, say that
• 1:11:13
  I wouldn't do it again. I I would happily punch a racist
• 1:11:17
  again. I almost found somebody the
• 1:11:19
  other day saying something terribly racist.
• 1:11:21
  So actually, I know the reactions in there, I kind of
• 1:11:24
  know it's wrong. Not reaction, but the the
• 1:11:27
  violence. Sometimes instinct just goes.
• 1:11:31
  You can't help it. You can't help it.
• 1:11:33
  And there I'm going. Okay.
• 1:11:34
  You can't. You can't.
• 1:11:35
  You mustn't do that. You mustn't do that.
• 1:11:36
  You got to be the bigger man. And then, yeah, just, yeah,
• 1:11:39
  there's been situations where. I don't know, maybe if it maybe
• 1:11:44
  if it happened an hour later in the day, I would have reacted
• 1:11:46
  differently. But yeah, there's certainly been
• 1:11:48
  occasions where I've had to. I see as a heroic thing.
• 1:11:52
  Because what was Bill going to do in that situation?
• 1:11:56
  And the guy's not going to back down.
• 1:11:58
  He's going to throw around. Yeah, I see as a heroic moment.
• 1:12:03
  If they were going to lock them up anyway, the only thing I
• 1:12:06
  could see that would be even better would be that Bill
• 1:12:08
  punched in herself. Yeah.
• 1:12:13
  But then it's the comic moment of him saying, wait, we've got
• 1:12:17
  to act this way and then doing it.
• 1:12:20
  Maybe if she had said that to the Doctor, like, okay, let me
• 1:12:23
  do the talking like you're too alien or blah blah blah, maybe
• 1:12:26
  then we could have got we could have got her hitting him and
• 1:12:30
  then a companion punching someone who gag reminds me of
• 1:12:33
  that bit in the Power of planet, where he's like, you know,
• 1:12:36
  making contact with any race. It requires tact and finesse.
• 1:12:39
  What does she know about it? Canine goes.
• 1:12:41
  She is prettier than you, Master.
• 1:12:43
  It's a great bit. Oh, here's a great one.
• 1:12:47
  Daniel Rawnsley asks after spending all of series 8 posing
• 1:12:51
  the question, Is the Doctor a good man?
• 1:12:54
  Do we actually get a definitive answer here?
• 1:12:58
  I think Bill turns him into a good man.
• 1:13:03
  Yeah, the conclusion he draws, doesn't he?
• 1:13:05
  At the end in The Doctor Falls when he gives that amazing
• 1:13:08
  speech to the two masters is I'm not perfect, but I always do the
• 1:13:14
  best I can. I always try and do what's
• 1:13:16
  right. Yeah, he always tries.
• 1:13:20
  Also, does Bill's know? Shh.
• 1:13:23
  Well, I think we'll know she was going to say shit.
• 1:13:25
  Cut to horse neighing, give new earths almost swearing cutaways
• 1:13:29
  a run for their money. Yeah, yeah, New Earth.
• 1:13:33
  I rolled my eyes when it happened.
• 1:13:35
  This one. I laughed.
• 1:13:36
  Yeah, I thought it was great. Sometimes I just just slip a
• 1:13:41
  swear word in and imagine the controversy.
• 1:13:44
  They do it in Marvel, like the Marvel stuffs 12A and they'll
• 1:13:47
  they'll laugh And Jeff? Yeah, Melt and Rob asked.
• 1:13:52
  They released a creature, but they never, ever followed up.
• 1:13:55
  What happened to it? Is it happily swimming around
• 1:13:58
  and around Iceland? Not the supermarket until it
• 1:14:00
  gets dizzy. It's dead in Cardiff.
• 1:14:05
  Oh, how grim? John Arnold asked.
• 1:14:11
  Given the creature under the Thames as a native to Earth,
• 1:14:14
  does this count as the first pure historical of Cardiff?
• 1:14:17
  Who? Is it native to us?
• 1:14:22
  They don't really explain where it where it came from.
• 1:14:25
  Unless I missed it. No, I I don't.
• 1:14:28
  Well, I'm guessing he's paid more attention than we have.
• 1:14:31
  Probably, yes. Let's say yes, John, Yes, you're
• 1:14:35
  absolutely right. Yes.
• 1:14:37
  And is that all? That's all.
• 1:14:39
  OK. Well, thank you very much folks
• 1:14:41
  for that. Now we have the task.
• 1:14:45
  This is where I know whether you actually listen to any of these
• 1:14:47
  or not. What we got to do now?
• 1:14:53
  I do listen. I listened to the just this
• 1:14:55
  morning, the Red Dwarf one. You did.
• 1:14:58
  We've got to name three things that we would recommend Fin Ice
• 1:15:01
  for. We'll go back and forth.
• 1:15:04
  OK, come on with you. Off you go.
• 1:15:07
  I would recommend it for anyone who like our.
• 1:15:12
  Here listener there who didn't like series eight and nine of
• 1:15:14
  Capaldi. I would recommend this as
• 1:15:17
  Capaldi's redemption. Oh, that's a great one.
• 1:15:21
  I would recommend this for the setting, which I think is
• 1:15:24
  beautifully realized, comes with naturally authentic atmosphere
• 1:15:30
  and allows them to get dressed up in fancy clothes, which is
• 1:15:33
  always wonderful. I would recommend it cuz you get
• 1:15:38
  to see Nathan Barley get punched.
• 1:15:43
  I'm sure he's a nice bloke, really, you know?
• 1:15:45
  Oh, yeah, he is. He is, apparently.
• 1:15:47
  Yeah, I'm going to go and watch that.
• 1:15:50
  I would recommend it because I think the sequence where Bill
• 1:15:58
  confronts the Doctor after the child dies, that's one of the
• 1:16:02
  best active sequences of the year, that no one's really
• 1:16:07
  raising their voice. It's all done the the drama's
• 1:16:10
  there. But it's not that sort of
• 1:16:12
  hysterical drama we often get with that sort of melodramatic
• 1:16:16
  drama. It's just two people with sort
• 1:16:18
  of different ideologies learning about each other.
• 1:16:22
  And I think Pearl Mackie, who is a newcomer that manages to be
• 1:16:29
  the equal of, or it may perhaps even best Peter Capaldi, who you
• 1:16:33
  know is a veteran actor. So she really impresses in that
• 1:16:36
  same. Yeah, she does it.
• 1:16:38
  And it's so understated. And I love it when the little
• 1:16:41
  girl says look, don't don't act funny when she talks peculiar.
• 1:16:48
  There's so many cute moments in this.
• 1:16:52
  It's another one. It will make you want a pie.
• 1:16:55
  I do want a pie. I want a pie.
• 1:16:57
  Yeah, we're going to film it in a minute as well.
• 1:17:00
  Although I think I've got a pie, actually, You know, I don't want
• 1:17:03
  a pie because I'm scared where the meat's coming from.
• 1:17:06
  But you'll like it. I will like it.
• 1:17:10
  I love a pie crust. And my last thing then is going
• 1:17:13
  to be I think it is very refreshing that we get to see
• 1:17:22
  the Doctor and Bill having fun. Like you said, we don't do
• 1:17:27
  enough of this. And like you said, so I'm just
• 1:17:31
  making everything you said earlier now the times that we
• 1:17:35
  do, like you couldn't have a whole website of that just
• 1:17:37
  locking about. You know, you got to have a plot
• 1:17:40
  in there somewhere. But every now and again, we need
• 1:17:43
  a reminder of why they go on these bloody adventures.
• 1:17:47
  Because, you know, more often than not it's grim.
• 1:17:50
  You know what I would love if they would do again as those
• 1:17:52
  little mini sods they used to do during the Matt Smith era.
• 1:17:56
  Like we'd see him go pick up with a song and then they would
• 1:17:58
  have like a 5 minute adventure. We we need more of that on
• 1:18:02
  extras on like Blu-ray and stuff.
• 1:18:03
  And I know Blu rays don't sell that well anymore, so maybe
• 1:18:07
  there's not the budget for this, but it would be great.
• 1:18:09
  Just have these little 5 minute adventures where they're just in
• 1:18:12
  a market or something and yeah, I think that would be great.
• 1:18:15
  I worry about it. He's got that Mickey Mouse money
• 1:18:17
  now. He cannot lavish extras.
• 1:18:20
  I. Was trying to hear Mickey Mouse
• 1:18:22
  laugh then, but I couldn't. Couldn't do it that.
• 1:18:25
  I'll tell you what, that was absolutely effortless.
• 1:18:28
  Thank you so much for that. That was so much fun.
• 1:18:30
  I had a lot of fun, Joe. A lot of fun when I'm talking to
• 1:18:34
  another podcaster. You know, conversation never
• 1:18:38
  dries up. Do you think I might be able to
• 1:18:41
  entice you back to do another one of these?
• 1:18:44
  Oh, 100%, especially if you do Tortwood.
• 1:18:47
  Oh, OK. Well, OK, we'll talk privately
• 1:18:49
  about that because if you've got any particular favorites.
• 1:18:53
  Any of series two, I think is golden.
• 1:18:56
  Any of series two? I even like the circus one, you
• 1:18:58
  know, from out of the rain. Yeah, it's quite good.
• 1:19:00
  I didn't like it at first, but I've come round to it since
• 1:19:03
  because it's so different to all the rest.
• 1:19:06
  Was there anything in series two I didn't like?
• 1:19:11
  Oh, the first one went over and died.
• 1:19:13
  The Matt. Jones Oh yeah, yeah.
• 1:19:14
  And then I thought it was redeemed when you had the Joe
• 1:19:16
  Lydster 1. Yeah.
• 1:19:18
  Oh, that one's a beautiful episode.
• 1:19:19
  Is that the one with Richard Briers?
• 1:19:21
  Yes, yeah. Amazing.
• 1:19:24
  Well. A good episode being very
• 1:19:26
  indulgent with us right now, so we can arrange what we're going
• 1:19:29
  to talk about next time. Thank you very much for your
• 1:19:32
  time. It's been an absolute pleasure.
• 1:19:34
  Anytime.