Latest / Daniel and Kelly’s Extraordinary Universe / The science fiction universe of "Lost in Space"

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The science fiction universe of "Lost in Space" · Daniel and Kelly’s Extraordinary Universe

0:08
Speaker 1: Hey, Daniel, do you ever worry about being stranded on
0:11
Speaker 1: a desert island? I think that that tends to happen
0:14
Speaker 1: more in cartoons than in real life, you know, like
0:17
Speaker 1: piranhas and quicksand wait, what Piranha doesn't really happen? How
0:21
Speaker 1: many relatives have you lost to piranhas? Well? I guess
0:25
Speaker 1: I'm just wondering, you know, like, if you were in
0:26
Speaker 1: a desert island, what would you want to bring with you? Like?
0:29
Speaker 1: What books would I want to read over and over
0:31
Speaker 1: and over again? No, I mean, like, who do you
0:33
Speaker 1: want to be there with you? Do you want a doctor?
0:36
Speaker 1: In an engineer or like a scientist like you, I'd
0:39
Speaker 1: say none of the above. Wait, what do you wouldn't
0:41
Speaker 1: want a doctor or an engineer? You want to be
0:44
Speaker 1: all by yourself. If I had to pick one person,
0:46
Speaker 1: I think I would pick a science fiction writer because
0:49
Speaker 1: they are the most creative when it comes to solving problems.
0:53
Speaker 1: Have you met many science fiction writers? I'm taking a
0:55
Speaker 1: trip to a desert island and I hope there's one there?
0:57
Speaker 1: Or are you just hoping they'll write a warmhole that
1:00
Speaker 1: will take you all home? As long as they don't
1:02
Speaker 1: write any plot holes. Hi am poor hammy cartoonists and
1:20
Speaker 1: the creator of PhD comics. Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a
1:23
Speaker 1: particle physicist and a professor at U c Irvine, and
1:26
Speaker 1: I actually have spent time on a desert island. You
1:29
Speaker 1: have really wait, a desert island or a dessert both?
1:33
Speaker 1: Actually both, but I really would love a dessert buffet
1:36
Speaker 1: on a desert island. Wait what? Oh yeah, I see
1:39
Speaker 1: it's an island with a dessert or like a desserted island.
1:42
Speaker 1: I once participated in a ridiculous boondoggle, which is a
1:46
Speaker 1: scientific conference on Tahiti. So I got paid to fly
1:49
Speaker 1: out to Tahiti and spend a week thinking about physics
1:52
Speaker 1: and snorkeling and eating dessert. So it wasn't don't. I'm
1:57
Speaker 1: gonna sure that Tahitians would appreciate you calling your island deserted.
2:00
Speaker 1: Was actually a whole set of isolens, large ones, small ones,
2:03
Speaker 1: and we were out on one of the smaller ones
2:05
Speaker 1: with a scientific research station. So it's not deserted, but
2:08
Speaker 1: there is a desert, right, And did you solve any
2:10
Speaker 1: physicist problems while you were there? Yes? How much dessert
2:13
Speaker 1: can one physicists eat in one sitting. I took some
2:16
Speaker 1: data and not throw while you were snorkling data sample
2:19
Speaker 1: one and it was a negative negative result. No, I
2:22
Speaker 1: loved my time in Tahiti and at a very productive
2:25
Speaker 1: time at that conference. So thank you funding agencies. But anyways,
2:28
Speaker 1: welcome to our podcast. Daniel and Jorge explain the university
2:30
Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio, in which we treat the
2:33
Speaker 1: entire universe like a dessert buffet. We sample everything, We
2:37
Speaker 1: take a bite out of every little pastry of physics.
2:40
Speaker 1: We dive deep into every offering because we want you
2:44
Speaker 1: to enjoy the flavors of the universe, including its mysteries
2:48
Speaker 1: and the fascinating things that we have been able to unravel. Yes,
2:51
Speaker 1: because the universe is full of tasty morsels of knowledge
2:54
Speaker 1: for us to consume. Man, and while they don't have calories,
2:56
Speaker 1: they do tend to make your brain a little bit bigger.
2:59
Speaker 1: While our bodies are currently limited to living here on
3:02
Speaker 1: Earth and eating the morsels of food that eat can provide,
3:05
Speaker 1: our minds are not so limited, and we are capable
3:07
Speaker 1: of casting them far, far into the universe and trying
3:10
Speaker 1: to understand what's out there. How does it all work?
3:13
Speaker 1: How did it all begin and who else might be
3:15
Speaker 1: out there? And is it made out of chocolate? Very
3:18
Speaker 1: important question here. But wait, Daniel already saying that Earth
3:20
Speaker 1: is really just the main course, and so once we
3:23
Speaker 1: consume Earth, we're going to go for dessert in another galaxy.
3:26
Speaker 1: Maybe I do like exotic desserts, and so maybe there's
3:29
Speaker 1: some variety of chocolate that can grow on alien soil
3:32
Speaker 1: that's even better than the best Ecuadorian or African chocolates.
3:37
Speaker 1: But you don't like white chocolate, so maybe would you
3:39
Speaker 1: like purple chocolate or green chocolate? Well that's because white
3:42
Speaker 1: chocolates not chocolate. Excuse me, so well, fortunately we live
3:47
Speaker 1: in the Milky Way, so I'm sure there are plenty
3:48
Speaker 1: of dairy desserts out there. I look forward to my
3:51
Speaker 1: dessert tour of the galaxy. Yeah, and it is a
3:53
Speaker 1: pretty big universe out there. I mean, there's not just
3:55
Speaker 1: our galaxy. There are billions and billions, maybe trillions of
3:58
Speaker 1: galaxies out there. It's a lot of space to get
4:00
Speaker 1: lost in, to be honest, exactly. And perhaps one day
4:03
Speaker 1: our children, or children's children are children's children's children's children
4:07
Speaker 1: will explore it, will set foot on another planet around
4:11
Speaker 1: another star, or maybe even in another galaxy, and if
4:15
Speaker 1: they do, they will have a difficult task to set
4:18
Speaker 1: up a colony and support human civilization so far from Earth. Yeah,
4:22
Speaker 1: to grow chocolate there. I mean, it's tricky enough here
4:24
Speaker 1: on Earth. There's a whole craft to it. That is
4:26
Speaker 1: colony priority number one. That's right, Feed the physicist chocolate
4:32
Speaker 1: and coffee. Which one would go first, Dan, coffee or chocolate? Yeah,
4:35
Speaker 1: I think coffee to the science fiction author and chocolate
4:38
Speaker 1: to the physicist. That's what I would suggest. But it
4:40
Speaker 1: is a wonderful universe, and there's no shortest of interesting
4:43
Speaker 1: ideas and imagination that we can use to think about
4:46
Speaker 1: what could be out there. And this is basically some
4:48
Speaker 1: people's jobs. Physicists are always exploring what's possible, how the
4:52
Speaker 1: universe might be, but we are constrained to what we
4:55
Speaker 1: know about the universe, and a whole group of people
4:58
Speaker 1: out there, science fiction authors specifically, who think even further,
5:02
Speaker 1: even deeper into the future. They entertain what might be,
5:05
Speaker 1: what seems to be impossible today but might be possible tomorrow,
5:09
Speaker 1: and write human stories about those futures. Yeah. Are you
5:12
Speaker 1: sometimes envious Daniel that they're they're not constrained by you know,
5:16
Speaker 1: real data, or funding agencies or teaching requirements. Oh, I'm
5:21
Speaker 1: sure they're constrained by funding agencies. They just have very
5:24
Speaker 1: different vendors. Publishing houses make even crazier decisions, and funding agencies.
5:28
Speaker 1: I think I wouldn't know anything about that. But there's
5:31
Speaker 1: a whole spectrum, you know. Experimental physicists definitely are constrained
5:35
Speaker 1: by data. We publish things we discover about the actual universe.
5:38
Speaker 1: Theoretical physicists also constrained by data, but you know, they
5:42
Speaker 1: actually prefer to avoid the data. They like playing around
5:45
Speaker 1: in realms where experimentalists can't yet rule things out, things
5:48
Speaker 1: like string theory, where we do not have colliders. They
5:51
Speaker 1: can probe whether or not the universe is actually tiny
5:54
Speaker 1: strings vibrating at the smallest level. That's where they like
5:57
Speaker 1: to play because they're not constrained by data. And science
6:00
Speaker 1: fiction authors I think of it's just like one step
6:02
Speaker 1: further removed from experimental constraints. Well, I feel like theoretical
6:06
Speaker 1: physicists at least are constrained by the math, like whatever
6:09
Speaker 1: they come up with has to be mathematically consistent. But
6:11
Speaker 1: the science fiction writers don't have to worry about math
6:14
Speaker 1: or data. Yeah, they can just write in English, which
6:17
Speaker 1: is a lot less precise than mathematics. I guess you
6:20
Speaker 1: have to worry about people liking their work. That's not
6:23
Speaker 1: something you'd probably worry about. No, and science fiction authors
6:28
Speaker 1: and were constrained by grammar, periods, semicollins, these kinds of rules.
6:32
Speaker 1: They do have to answer to their editors, after all,
6:35
Speaker 1: their spell checking in their word software. But science fiction
6:38
Speaker 1: virus are something that are part of the whole scientific
6:42
Speaker 1: endeavor we feel, and so we have a series of
6:44
Speaker 1: podcasts in which we talk about science fiction works and
6:47
Speaker 1: we talk to their authors. We have spoken to lots
6:50
Speaker 1: of fund science fiction authors about the science of their universe,
6:54
Speaker 1: how they constructed it, whether or not it's important to
6:56
Speaker 1: them that their universe is scientifically valid, and whether or
7:00
Speaker 1: they have built alternative theories of physics in those universes. So,
7:04
Speaker 1: if you are a fan of science fiction, check out
7:06
Speaker 1: some of right interviews. We've talked to Alistair Reynolds. We've
7:09
Speaker 1: talked to Adrian Chaikovski, we talked to sp Diva. We
7:12
Speaker 1: have a whole list of folks. It's basically a book club.
7:16
Speaker 1: It is sort of a special book club. It's sort
7:18
Speaker 1: of like a Nerds Nerd book club, but today is
7:21
Speaker 1: a little bit different because we're not actually talking about
7:23
Speaker 1: a book. We're talking about a TV show, which is
7:26
Speaker 1: a first for us, right. Yeah, I thought it would
7:28
Speaker 1: be fun to expand from writers to screenwriters, people who
7:32
Speaker 1: have visions of the future that actually get visualized on
7:35
Speaker 1: screen for us all to enjoy. Yeah, we sort of
7:37
Speaker 1: talked about movies sometimes, but this is the first time
7:40
Speaker 1: we talked about a TV show. Only because I can't
7:42
Speaker 1: get feature writers to come on the podcast. I see,
7:45
Speaker 1: we're not famous enough yet. We have to limit ourselves
7:48
Speaker 1: to what daytime television is this. Are we gonna start
7:51
Speaker 1: with daytime television and then move our up to prime
7:54
Speaker 1: time having yet cracked into Hollywood exactly so to be
7:57
Speaker 1: on the podcast, we'll be talking about the science fiction
8:04
Speaker 1: universe of Lost in Space. Now, Daniel, we had to
8:11
Speaker 1: be very careful here that you we were going to
8:13
Speaker 1: be talking about the latest incarnation of the show Lost
8:16
Speaker 1: in Space, not the original nineteen sixties television show. Yeah,
8:20
Speaker 1: there are a lot of versions of this, it turns out,
8:22
Speaker 1: So we're talking about the Netflix remake, which started in
8:25
Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen. And just came out with their third season,
8:28
Speaker 1: which takes place in the future about twenty six. But
8:32
Speaker 1: you're right, there was a TV show in the sixties
8:35
Speaker 1: that took place in seven, so twenty years earlier than
8:39
Speaker 1: the present. That was The Future in the sixties. I
8:42
Speaker 1: guess yeah. And I hear that you were a fan
8:44
Speaker 1: of this as a kid. I did. I I lived
8:46
Speaker 1: in Panama and we had a military U S Military
8:49
Speaker 1: channel that the broadcast basically all kinds of TV shows
8:52
Speaker 1: in syndication, and so every afternoon I would sit down
8:55
Speaker 1: and watch the original Loss in Space and it was
8:57
Speaker 1: that part of your English language education. Yes, yes, it was.
9:01
Speaker 1: That's why any time anything happens, I go danger or danger.
9:05
Speaker 1: I think it's really fascinated to see sort of ancient
9:07
Speaker 1: images of the future. How would you compare the nineteen
9:11
Speaker 1: sixties depiction of n with the ninety seven you lived through.
9:15
Speaker 1: Not close enough. I think, you know, it'd be great
9:18
Speaker 1: to have those jet packs, those robots running around, those
9:22
Speaker 1: flying saucers. Yeah, it would be pretty awesome. I think
9:24
Speaker 1: that's why they slid the timeline forward when they remade
9:27
Speaker 1: it to twenty forty six. Would be far enough in
9:29
Speaker 1: the future. That it's plausible, But this actually has an
9:31
Speaker 1: even longer history because the show itself was inspired by
9:36
Speaker 1: a comic book Space Family Robinson, which was inspired by
9:40
Speaker 1: an eighteen twelve novel Swiss Family Robinson, which itself was
9:44
Speaker 1: inspired by Robinson Crusoe, whoa. It's like a reboot of
9:49
Speaker 1: a remake of a sequel. That is how what's going
9:52
Speaker 1: on here super inception science and somewhere along the way,
9:55
Speaker 1: I think there was also a movie that came out
9:58
Speaker 1: Lost in Space, Yes, starring Matt LeBlanc from Friends. And
10:02
Speaker 1: so if you think this is well trodden territory, there
10:04
Speaker 1: is still stuff there to mine. Well, it is a
10:07
Speaker 1: pretty interesting premise of the show. And I think, like
10:10
Speaker 1: you said, it all goes back to this idea of
10:11
Speaker 1: Robinson Crusoe and being stranded out there in the wilderness exactly.
10:15
Speaker 1: It's all about using science to survive the universe. It's
10:19
Speaker 1: an individual against nature where nature is not just like
10:22
Speaker 1: sneaks and jaguars and the jungle here on Earth, but
10:25
Speaker 1: the entire universe black holes and neutron stars and everything
10:29
Speaker 1: out there that might kill you. Now we have sort
10:31
Speaker 1: of an interesting situation here because you've watched the entire
10:34
Speaker 1: Netflix revival that started in But you haven't seen the
10:37
Speaker 1: original worth I've seen the entire original series, but haven't
10:41
Speaker 1: seen a new one, And so together we know absolutely nothing. Together,
10:46
Speaker 1: we have nothing to compare. I like mine and you
10:49
Speaker 1: like it exactly. Well, I'm going to have to go
10:51
Speaker 1: and watch the original now, although you know, compared to
10:54
Speaker 1: the new one, it can't be that impressive. Well, you know,
10:57
Speaker 1: you gotta watch it in context. All right, Well, let's
11:00
Speaker 1: jump into the show Lost in Space, Daniel, Well, what
11:04
Speaker 1: would you say the show is about. So, the show
11:06
Speaker 1: is about a family that's been stranded. They have left
11:10
Speaker 1: the Earth after some huge impact nearly wipes out human
11:13
Speaker 1: and civilization, and the planet bands together to launch a
11:16
Speaker 1: colonization effort. And this family, the stars of the show,
11:20
Speaker 1: are with the rest of the humans on their way
11:22
Speaker 1: to Alpha Centauri, but they get stranded. They get separated
11:25
Speaker 1: from their convoy and they land on a strange planet
11:28
Speaker 1: and they have to survive. Yeah, and it's not just
11:31
Speaker 1: like they took a wrong turn. It's like they accidentally
11:33
Speaker 1: fell into a wormhole or something. So they really have
11:36
Speaker 1: no idea where in space they are, or where in
11:38
Speaker 1: the galaxy or even if they are in the same galaxy, right, Yeah, exactly,
11:41
Speaker 1: they are lost in space and so they have to
11:44
Speaker 1: survive on their own and they have to try to
11:46
Speaker 1: find their way back to the original colony. So it's
11:49
Speaker 1: a whole family, the family Robinson, of course, and on
11:52
Speaker 1: this planet. No spoilers. This happens early on in the
11:55
Speaker 1: first episode. The boy in the family, Will Robinson, meets
11:59
Speaker 1: an alien robot and becomes its friend because he helps it. Yeah.
12:03
Speaker 1: I thought that was an interesting twist because in the
12:05
Speaker 1: original I think I think they bring a robot with them.
12:07
Speaker 1: It's not something they find interesting. Cur complimentary knowledge is
12:12
Speaker 1: really working its magic. Yeah, it's helping us filling some
12:15
Speaker 1: air time. Yeah. Well, and this version, the robot is
12:18
Speaker 1: an alien robot, which I think is a really cool
12:21
Speaker 1: idea because you know, we often think about AI and
12:23
Speaker 1: human AI evolving, but we don't often think about the
12:26
Speaker 1: eventual transformation of alien species into AI or you know
12:31
Speaker 1: what happens if an alien species develops AI and then
12:34
Speaker 1: it's taken over by their own AI, and then we
12:36
Speaker 1: only meet that AI, like if they have their singularity
12:39
Speaker 1: kind of moment, like their own matres moment. Yeah, that's right.
12:44
Speaker 1: And so this robot says the usual catchphrase, you know,
12:47
Speaker 1: danger Will Robinson, and it's capable of a little bit
12:50
Speaker 1: of communication with the humans. Yeah, and it's all sort
12:53
Speaker 1: of a little naive, right, it's sort of like innocent,
12:55
Speaker 1: sort of Well, this particular robot has some complexity to it.
12:58
Speaker 1: You know, it can be harmful, it can be dangerous,
13:01
Speaker 1: it can be helpful. It's a little bit inscrutable. You
13:04
Speaker 1: never truly understand it and actually think that the writers
13:07
Speaker 1: did a good job of making it accessible enough emotionally
13:11
Speaker 1: that you care about it a little bit, but also
13:13
Speaker 1: keeping it a little bit alien. You never think you
13:16
Speaker 1: really understand what's going on inside that alien right. It's
13:19
Speaker 1: sort of like having a grizzly bear friend or something like.
13:22
Speaker 1: It's nice and cuddly and cute, but you know, who
13:25
Speaker 1: knows what one it's going to do at a moment's notice. Yeah,
13:28
Speaker 1: it's very unpredictable, and it turns out to not be
13:31
Speaker 1: the only robot. What these folks discover eventually is that
13:35
Speaker 1: the human ships are getting to Alfa Centauri because they've
13:38
Speaker 1: been powered by alien technology which was stolen from these
13:42
Speaker 1: alien robots, and so they run into a whole swarm
13:45
Speaker 1: of these alien robots that are not as friendly as
13:49
Speaker 1: their buddy, the alien robot. Wait, what did you just
13:52
Speaker 1: spoil the whole series for me? Here? No, No, this
13:56
Speaker 1: is the basic premace. It comes out pretty early on.
13:58
Speaker 1: Let's see. Well that's interesting too, because in the original
14:01
Speaker 1: I don't think there was sort of a grand plot
14:04
Speaker 1: to it. You know, in the original it was meant
14:05
Speaker 1: for syndication. In the six seasons, so each episode is
14:08
Speaker 1: basically like a repeat of the last. Like, Oh, they
14:10
Speaker 1: get to a new place, they figure out how what's
14:12
Speaker 1: going on, just how to survive. You don't need to
14:14
Speaker 1: know what happened in the other episodes. So why do
14:16
Speaker 1: they ever move on? If they figure out how to
14:17
Speaker 1: survive in new place X, why don't they just set
14:20
Speaker 1: up camp and live happily ever after? Well, I think
14:22
Speaker 1: they're trying to get home. They're not trying to relocate.
14:25
Speaker 1: You know, you can't be lost in space if you
14:27
Speaker 1: like being, you know, out there in space. I'm lost
14:30
Speaker 1: in space and I'm happy about it. Then you're just
14:34
Speaker 1: in space, I think, exactly happy in space. Where's the tension?
14:39
Speaker 1: But that's an interesting tway. So it turns out that
14:41
Speaker 1: the technology that humans have came from aliens. Like what
14:45
Speaker 1: happened there, like they found it or what? Yeah, so
14:47
Speaker 1: I don't want to spoil it. That's part of the
14:48
Speaker 1: plot which unfolds, but it's a lot of the conflict
14:51
Speaker 1: that drives the story forward. You know, are we taking
14:53
Speaker 1: advantages alien robots? Are they actually the good ones and
14:56
Speaker 1: we are the bad? Ease? It's a fascinating drama, and
14:59
Speaker 1: you end up with a big battle between humans and
15:02
Speaker 1: these alien robots, and the humans try to convince some
15:04
Speaker 1: of the robots to be on their side, right right,
15:07
Speaker 1: And I think part of the sort of the DNA
15:09
Speaker 1: of the show and all these series is sort of
15:11
Speaker 1: like how do humans react to these extreme situations? Like
15:14
Speaker 1: do they pull together? Do they act selfishly? With some
15:16
Speaker 1: of the drama that comes out of it, yeah, you
15:18
Speaker 1: get some of both. You have people who are like
15:20
Speaker 1: good citizens and pitching in for the common cause, and
15:23
Speaker 1: then you have people trying to subvert the mission for
15:25
Speaker 1: their own personal gains. There's really delicious subplot with a
15:28
Speaker 1: dr Smith, which I think is similar to what happened
15:30
Speaker 1: in the original series. So it comes with a little
15:32
Speaker 1: bit of a twist in this one, but in general,
15:34
Speaker 1: the attitude is, let's band together and let's solve this problem.
15:38
Speaker 1: As a mantra they say on the show a Lot,
15:40
Speaker 1: which is every problem has a solution, which I like
15:42
Speaker 1: because it suggests that, you know, the human mind can
15:45
Speaker 1: wrap itself around the universe. If only we could understand
15:48
Speaker 1: the way things work, we can find a solution to
15:51
Speaker 1: almost any problem. Right, And that's especially useful in a
15:54
Speaker 1: TV show, because if things didn't work out, the show
15:56
Speaker 1: would be over. That's true, but it also is the
16:02
Speaker 1: core drama of the show, sort of like in that
16:04
Speaker 1: movie The Martian where he's stranded on that planet and
16:06
Speaker 1: he has to science his way home. That's what they're doing.
16:09
Speaker 1: They run into a problem, and the problem is usually
16:11
Speaker 1: more technical than emotional, and so they have to find
16:14
Speaker 1: some solution to the problem that requires understanding the science
16:18
Speaker 1: on this alien planet or coming up with some clever trick,
16:21
Speaker 1: right right. It requires you to use the word science
16:23
Speaker 1: as a verb, like, let's science. Nothing wrong with doing
16:27
Speaker 1: the little science and science. All right, Well, let's get
16:30
Speaker 1: into the actual science of Lost in Space, and then
16:32
Speaker 1: later on we'll get an interview with one of the
16:35
Speaker 1: writers on the show. But first let's take a quick break.
16:50
Speaker 1: All right, we're talking about the science fiction universe of
16:52
Speaker 1: Lost in Space, the latest Netflix revival of the show Idea,
16:57
Speaker 1: which was based on another show which is based on
17:00
Speaker 1: a book which was based on real person Robinson Crusoe.
17:03
Speaker 1: Robinson Crusoe was a historical figure. I wonder if he
17:06
Speaker 1: still gets royalties his estate, but well probably now he's
17:11
Speaker 1: still in that desert island. When he gets back, he's
17:13
Speaker 1: going to be rich. He has a pile of checks
17:17
Speaker 1: made out to Robinson Crusso, yeah, I hope his agent
17:19
Speaker 1: included all new media in his contract, you know, and streaming.
17:24
Speaker 1: Do you think they thought that was going to happen
17:25
Speaker 1: in You see, if he had a science fiction author
17:29
Speaker 1: with him on that island, that author probably could have
17:31
Speaker 1: anticipated this kind of thing. That's exactly why you need
17:34
Speaker 1: creative people with you. That's right. That president would also
17:37
Speaker 1: would have been delicious probably Unfortunately, that's dark man, that's dark.
17:44
Speaker 1: That's dark science fiction. All right. Well, we're talking about
17:47
Speaker 1: the latest Netflix show, and there's some size to it, right,
17:50
Speaker 1: there's like real science And as you said, part of
17:52
Speaker 1: the mantra of the show that you got from talking
17:54
Speaker 1: to the writer is that they paid a lot of
17:56
Speaker 1: attention to the signs and they try to figure out
17:58
Speaker 1: scientific solutions to the problem. Yeah. One of the lead
18:01
Speaker 1: characters in the show is the mom and the family.
18:03
Speaker 1: She's a scientist and she says this all the time.
18:06
Speaker 1: She says, every problem has a solution, because they're often
18:08
Speaker 1: stuck and it seems hopeless, and then they come up
18:11
Speaker 1: with some scientific strategy. You know, early on, for example,
18:14
Speaker 1: in the first episode, one of the kids gets caught
18:18
Speaker 1: in a lake which freezes over and so like, oh
18:20
Speaker 1: my gosh, our kids are under the ice. Are they
18:22
Speaker 1: going to die? Which just stand here watching them die,
18:25
Speaker 1: and they come up with some clever solution to like
18:27
Speaker 1: rapidly melt the ice using a chemical reaction involving magnesium
18:32
Speaker 1: which they extract from something nearby. So it's that kind
18:34
Speaker 1: of sort of scientific problem solving. Interesting. Yeah, I mean,
18:38
Speaker 1: after they took a little break for the kids, then
18:40
Speaker 1: they went to work to rest. Yeah, but you know,
18:44
Speaker 1: they don't just like magic their way out of these problems.
18:47
Speaker 1: Are come up with something which doesn't make any sense.
18:50
Speaker 1: The goal I think of the show is for these
18:52
Speaker 1: folks to be sciencing and to use science to solve
18:55
Speaker 1: these problems, and I find the science pretty credible in
18:57
Speaker 1: most of the episodes, it passes the annual physics test,
19:01
Speaker 1: like they use real scientific concepts, or that it's plausible
19:05
Speaker 1: that the way they use it for all of the
19:07
Speaker 1: above both. I mean, there are some larger questions about
19:10
Speaker 1: fastening light travel and alien robots, which we can dig
19:13
Speaker 1: into a moment, but sort of the episodic science, the
19:16
Speaker 1: science they use to solve the problems of every show.
19:18
Speaker 1: You know, they run into maybe their ship runs out
19:21
Speaker 1: of fuel, so they need to find some way to
19:23
Speaker 1: create more fuel from whatever they found on the planet.
19:26
Speaker 1: They're using real science, their science from our universe. They've
19:29
Speaker 1: dug into the chemistry of it. How do you generate
19:32
Speaker 1: this kind of molecule from this kind of molecule? And
19:34
Speaker 1: that's really cool because it's I think the kind of
19:36
Speaker 1: thing you would actually have to do if you were
19:38
Speaker 1: an alien planet. You'd have to be resourceful and creative,
19:42
Speaker 1: right right, you'd have two science a lot, and you'd
19:45
Speaker 1: have to like it. And I saw that they use
19:47
Speaker 1: a lightning strike to rechargstro ship. Yeah, one point, their
19:50
Speaker 1: batteries are low and there's this lightning bolt that comes
19:54
Speaker 1: at a very repeatable and predictable moment, and so they
19:56
Speaker 1: rig up something to capture that lightning strikes sort have
19:59
Speaker 1: been Franklin style and guide the current into their battery. Again,
20:04
Speaker 1: it's the science that's driving the problem and it's driving
20:06
Speaker 1: the solution. So if you're the kind of person who
20:09
Speaker 1: thinks scientifically and likes to understand the university, you can
20:11
Speaker 1: really see these characters doing that. It's a lot of fun.
20:14
Speaker 1: That's that's a cool aspect of it, I guess. And
20:16
Speaker 1: do they use like real science or do they make
20:19
Speaker 1: up signs, you know, like they make up a new
20:21
Speaker 1: kinds of molecules or any kinds of energies or do
20:23
Speaker 1: they stick to things that you know scientists today on
20:26
Speaker 1: Earth would recognize. It's sort of in two categories. Like
20:28
Speaker 1: the episodic problems that they're solving, the nitty gritty level,
20:31
Speaker 1: like for survival, that's all real science, and as far
20:34
Speaker 1: as I can tell, at least, it's all you know
20:36
Speaker 1: from our universe. The larger questions that sort of frame
20:40
Speaker 1: the whole show, how do you get to Alpha Centauri
20:43
Speaker 1: in less than ten thousand years? And could you actually
20:46
Speaker 1: meet a race of alien robots and communicate with them
20:49
Speaker 1: those questions. They're they're on thinner ice. I think scientifically right,
20:53
Speaker 1: they need to use magnesium to melt that ice. But
20:56
Speaker 1: you said that part of the idea of the show
20:58
Speaker 1: is that the it turns out that the humans actually
21:00
Speaker 1: have ailing technology, and that's what they're using to travel
21:03
Speaker 1: to to Alpha Centari because Alpha Centaur is pretty far. Yeah.
21:06
Speaker 1: They invoke this sense that other species out there might
21:10
Speaker 1: be much older than ours, and so they might be
21:12
Speaker 1: much more advanced, and so they might be masters of
21:15
Speaker 1: space and time in ways that humans just aren't, and
21:18
Speaker 1: so it's plausible that they would have technology which to
21:21
Speaker 1: us seems impossible, for example, engines that could take you
21:24
Speaker 1: between the stars in less than tens of thousands of years.
21:27
Speaker 1: One challenge we haven't exploring the universe is that we
21:30
Speaker 1: can't travel faster than the speed of light, and other
21:32
Speaker 1: stars are pretty far away. Yeah, how far is Alpha Centari.
21:36
Speaker 1: It's just about four light years, So if you're traveling
21:38
Speaker 1: at the speed of light, it would take you four years.
21:40
Speaker 1: But accelerating up to near the speed of light and
21:43
Speaker 1: a fairly massive ship will take you a very very
21:45
Speaker 1: long time and a huge tank of gas. So the
21:48
Speaker 1: best Earth technology would be zillions of dollars and thousands
21:53
Speaker 1: of years, I see. And so is the idea that
21:55
Speaker 1: in Alpha Centari, which is a star, there's like an
21:58
Speaker 1: earthlike planet there. Yeah, their imagining there are habitable systems
22:01
Speaker 1: there in the Goldilog zone and if we could just
22:03
Speaker 1: get there, we could establish a colony and live happily
22:06
Speaker 1: ever after. And so they have this technology from aliens.
22:08
Speaker 1: And now does it work as a like a warp
22:10
Speaker 1: engine like in Star Trek or does it open up
22:12
Speaker 1: a wormhole that connects space and time at different points. Yeah,
22:17
Speaker 1: that's a great question. And visually it looks more like
22:20
Speaker 1: a wormhole the way they depicted on the show, looks
22:23
Speaker 1: like a whole right, basically like a hole in space
22:25
Speaker 1: like a window kind of. But it's interesting because only
22:28
Speaker 1: the alien robots know how to operate these alien engines,
22:32
Speaker 1: and so it like requires some intense calculations or something
22:35
Speaker 1: in order to build these wormholes, which I thought was
22:38
Speaker 1: really interesting and you'll hear later I asked Carrie about that,
22:41
Speaker 1: like what is the science of these engines? So I
22:44
Speaker 1: think she was inspired by some combination of wormholes on
22:46
Speaker 1: warp drives because she talked about like bending space and time.
22:50
Speaker 1: But you know, that's something which is plausible, Like we
22:52
Speaker 1: don't know how to make wormholes, we don't know how
22:54
Speaker 1: to build warp drives. But as we've talked about on
22:57
Speaker 1: this show several times, physics says that it's not necessar
23:00
Speaker 1: serially impossible. And so whenever there's a gap like that,
23:02
Speaker 1: the theorists go crazy, Oh, well, maybe it's something we
23:05
Speaker 1: can actually do, and the science fiction authors feel free
23:07
Speaker 1: to write plots about it because it might be true
23:10
Speaker 1: that in a thousand years or a hundred years or
23:12
Speaker 1: fifty years, that's something that we could actually do, right,
23:15
Speaker 1: or that maybe aliens have already done a long time ago.
23:18
Speaker 1: You know, it could be really old ancient technology for them. Yeah.
23:21
Speaker 1: Although if aliens exist and they have wormhole technology that
23:26
Speaker 1: lets them open portals around the galaxy, that begs the
23:28
Speaker 1: obvious question, right, like why haven't we seen them yet?
23:31
Speaker 1: If they've been around for a while and they can
23:33
Speaker 1: zip around the galaxy, you think we might have found
23:36
Speaker 1: some of them, right, they're probably just avoiding us. They're like,
23:41
Speaker 1: why we go to that deserted island over there? Yeah,
23:43
Speaker 1: and it's possible, of course that the aliens are around
23:45
Speaker 1: and we just don't even recognize them. How do we
23:48
Speaker 1: know that the aliens are anything like us so that
23:50
Speaker 1: we would even identify them, or we could tell that
23:52
Speaker 1: they were here, or they could tell that we were here.
23:54
Speaker 1: It's possible that alien life is extremely alien. Yeah, like
23:58
Speaker 1: you usually say, like, even if we out some piece
24:00
Speaker 1: of alien technology, how would we even know how to
24:03
Speaker 1: turn it on or make it work for us? Do
24:05
Speaker 1: they cover that in the show? Yeah, Well, in this case,
24:07
Speaker 1: we don't know how to use it, and the only
24:09
Speaker 1: way to use the alien engine needs to have an
24:11
Speaker 1: alien robot because only they can turn it on. Great,
24:15
Speaker 1: what that means that humans have an alien robot with them.
24:18
Speaker 1: I don't want to spoil too much, but there's a
24:20
Speaker 1: lot you just did. I didn't say anything you say
24:24
Speaker 1: spoiler alert Daniel already. You just asked such a good
24:28
Speaker 1: question and you reveal it with your question. Well, there's
24:31
Speaker 1: also sort of science in the idea of exploring other
24:34
Speaker 1: planets in the show, because they go to other planets.
24:36
Speaker 1: And one thing that kind of always puts me off
24:39
Speaker 1: a little bit when you see science which and shows
24:41
Speaker 1: going to other planets is how how similar they look
24:43
Speaker 1: to Earth, Like Tattoine looks a lot like the African desert.
24:47
Speaker 1: It certainly does. And that happens also on this show,
24:50
Speaker 1: that they land on a planet. It's lush and it's green,
24:53
Speaker 1: and there are tree like things and bush like things
24:56
Speaker 1: and grass like things, and you know, maybe that's true,
24:58
Speaker 1: and maybe evolution who shoes plants in that direction, no
25:01
Speaker 1: matter what, because it's just the optimal strategy in general.
25:05
Speaker 1: But it seems to me more likely that things on
25:07
Speaker 1: other planets are much much weirder, you know, given the
25:10
Speaker 1: huge variety of ecosystems even here on Earth, and as
25:13
Speaker 1: a function of history on Earth, it seems much more likely.
25:16
Speaker 1: But you know, it's difficult and expensive to build totally creative,
25:20
Speaker 1: weird alien realms when you are filming here on Earth. Yeah,
25:24
Speaker 1: although I think this show sort of tries a little bit.
25:26
Speaker 1: I saw a little bit of it. And when they
25:27
Speaker 1: go into like the woods, they do try to like
25:29
Speaker 1: add with CG like a few purple plants here and there.
25:32
Speaker 1: I mean, it's mostly like Earth trees, but they also
25:35
Speaker 1: try to sprinkle, you know, some sort of alien things around. Yeah, exactly,
25:39
Speaker 1: alien is purple. I like that purple chocolate, purple plants,
25:42
Speaker 1: purple flowers. Clearly it was an infinite budget and infinite time.
25:46
Speaker 1: You might be able to be more creative and create
25:48
Speaker 1: hardly new sets or c g I, but I think
25:50
Speaker 1: there's some limit on what you can accomplish practically. So
25:53
Speaker 1: you do have to suspend disbelief a little bit on
25:55
Speaker 1: this show because it is awfully earthlike in terms of
25:58
Speaker 1: the flora. Yeah, because I was watching something the other
26:01
Speaker 1: day that said that our plants are green, sort of randomly,
26:04
Speaker 1: kind of like green is not the only color that
26:07
Speaker 1: something that chlorophyll could have been. We could have used
26:09
Speaker 1: another molecule that was a different color. So alien plants
26:12
Speaker 1: really could be purple. They could be purple. That's exactually
26:15
Speaker 1: a pretty good color and also not just green. Well,
26:19
Speaker 1: I like purple cauliflower and purple cabbage, so I hope
26:22
Speaker 1: alien salads are probably pretty tasty. You're halfway there. And
26:26
Speaker 1: there's also some science about the robots, right, like the
26:30
Speaker 1: the ideas that aliens have created robots artificial intelligence, and
26:34
Speaker 1: but you don't see the aliens. You only see the
26:36
Speaker 1: robots they made. Yeah, we only run into the robots,
26:38
Speaker 1: though later on in seasons of the show they do
26:41
Speaker 1: get a little bit into the backstory of where these
26:44
Speaker 1: robots came from, and so I don't want to spoil it,
26:46
Speaker 1: but it's fascinating to see how they depict alien AI
26:51
Speaker 1: and specifically, you know, how you can relate to it.
26:53
Speaker 1: It makes me wonder what the chances are if we
26:56
Speaker 1: meet aliens or alien AI that we will be able
26:59
Speaker 1: to commute in came with them. And of course, for
27:01
Speaker 1: the purposes of storytelling, you have to have some communication,
27:05
Speaker 1: and so in a science fiction universe, they basically have
27:08
Speaker 1: to have some ability to communicate, though I think in
27:10
Speaker 1: our real universe it's less likely you mean less likely
27:13
Speaker 1: that we would be able to communicate with them. Well
27:15
Speaker 1: you just this, I guess assuming that. But maybe they
27:17
Speaker 1: build a AI so that it's adaptable and able to
27:20
Speaker 1: kind of adapt to us. Yeah, perhaps that would be
27:23
Speaker 1: extraordinarily intelligent. But you know, if you're imagining future civilizations
27:27
Speaker 1: that can do warp drives and wormholes, then maybe they
27:29
Speaker 1: can also understand the human mind better than even we could.
27:33
Speaker 1: And would you have to call it a AI because
27:35
Speaker 1: it's alien artificial in conject Yeah, perhaps it's funny because
27:39
Speaker 1: these alien robots they can say some phrases like they
27:42
Speaker 1: can say danger Will Robinson, and they seem to be
27:44
Speaker 1: able to understand English, but they can't like go into
27:47
Speaker 1: detail and explain themselves very clearly. It's like a limited
27:51
Speaker 1: vocabulary there, and that's not really explained though. I asked
27:54
Speaker 1: Carrie about it, and you'll hear her answer in the interview.
27:57
Speaker 1: All right, well, let's get to that interview and writer
28:00
Speaker 1: Carrie Drake has to say about the signs of Lost
28:04
Speaker 1: in Space. But first let's take another quick break. All right,
28:19
Speaker 1: we're talking about the science fiction universe of Lost in Space,
28:22
Speaker 1: and it's a pretty big show. I mean, it has
28:24
Speaker 1: three seasons now on Netflix and each season is like
28:27
Speaker 1: ten ten episodes. Yeah, so there's a lot there to watch,
28:30
Speaker 1: and it spans lots of star systems and many years
28:33
Speaker 1: and lots of threads, and so it's become sort of
28:36
Speaker 1: a very big universe. But I know you're a fan, Daniel,
28:39
Speaker 1: of hard science fiction, like really strict science fiction. How
28:42
Speaker 1: do you feel about that this one does with that?
28:44
Speaker 1: I think this one does about as well as anything.
28:46
Speaker 1: You know, they're trying to limit themselves to the science
28:49
Speaker 1: of the show. They've invented some rules and they try
28:52
Speaker 1: to stick to them. That's really the most important requirement.
28:55
Speaker 1: You can have whatever rules you want in your universe
28:57
Speaker 1: as long as you follow them. So it's got to
29:00
Speaker 1: be some laws of physics. Otherwise you're throwing the entire
29:02
Speaker 1: enterprise of physics out the window, and that I can't
29:04
Speaker 1: get behind and out the door. Maybe, but not out
29:08
Speaker 1: the window. Come out, we have some self respect. That's
29:10
Speaker 1: a road too far, all right. Well, you reached out
29:13
Speaker 1: to one of the writers of the show Lost in
29:16
Speaker 1: Space for them to call on the show, but she
29:17
Speaker 1: said no. Yeah. I reached out to Vivian Lee, who's
29:19
Speaker 1: one of the writers on this show, and she was
29:21
Speaker 1: very happy to talk to me, but she didn't want
29:23
Speaker 1: to be on the podcast. She said in a quote,
29:25
Speaker 1: I am not a science person like at all, and
29:28
Speaker 1: if I was on your podcast, it would be just
29:29
Speaker 1: a mess for you and me. So she directed me
29:32
Speaker 1: to carry you who apparently is the science nerd in
29:35
Speaker 1: the writing room. Interesting, she's sort of like the most
29:39
Speaker 1: scientifically inclined, I guess, yeah, and so you'll hear in
29:42
Speaker 1: the interview, I asked her all about what it's like
29:43
Speaker 1: to be the voice of science in a writing room
29:46
Speaker 1: and how much give and take there is between the
29:48
Speaker 1: emotional and scientific arcs of the story writing. Do they
29:51
Speaker 1: have like a scientific advisor on the show or is
29:53
Speaker 1: it called Wikipedia? Who is our scientific advisor on this show?
29:58
Speaker 1: I think that Carrie's role was to reflect science and show.
30:00
Speaker 1: She went off and did some research here and there,
30:02
Speaker 1: including asking some people she knew who had some grasp
30:05
Speaker 1: of science. Interesting. And so Carrie Drake is the name
30:08
Speaker 1: of the writer, and she has a lot of credits
30:10
Speaker 1: to her name, including Dark Crystal, which is I know
30:13
Speaker 1: is a favorite of yours sort of Yeah, I'm a
30:15
Speaker 1: big fan of that show, dating back to the original movies,
30:19
Speaker 1: and so it was a pleasure to talk to her. Well,
30:21
Speaker 1: here's Daniel's interview with Carrie Drake, writer on Lost in Space.
30:29
Speaker 1: All right, so it's my pleasure to welcome to podcast
30:31
Speaker 1: Carrie Drake, who's a professional working science fiction writer in Hollywood,
30:36
Speaker 1: has written for a Lost in Space as well as
30:38
Speaker 1: Dark Crystal and list herself as a professional procrastinator. Kerry,
30:42
Speaker 1: welcome to the program. Hi, thanks for having me, Daniel.
30:45
Speaker 1: So first tell us a little bit about your background,
30:48
Speaker 1: how you got into science fiction writing and how you
30:50
Speaker 1: cracked the puzzle of working for television. Sure, sure, you know.
30:54
Speaker 1: I started out as a visual artist first. I thought
30:56
Speaker 1: I wanted to be an animator until I started animating,
31:00
Speaker 1: and I went on to do storyboarding, which is a lot,
31:03
Speaker 1: especially in the animation world, a lot like storytelling. So
31:06
Speaker 1: it's about reboarding and revising things until you get the
31:10
Speaker 1: story right. Uh. And that's sort of what drew me
31:12
Speaker 1: into television, fell in love with television, worked my way
31:15
Speaker 1: up the ranks as an assistant for seven years, and
31:18
Speaker 1: one of my earlier shows as an assistant was Terra Nova,
31:22
Speaker 1: So another science fiction show. I've always loved h science
31:26
Speaker 1: fiction fantasy. I think the Enters game series was one
31:31
Speaker 1: of my favorites, especially with Speaker, a Speaker for the Dead.
31:34
Speaker 1: The second one I read as a mof I love Tolkien,
31:38
Speaker 1: sort of a nerd in that way, so yeah, you know,
31:40
Speaker 1: a stranger in a strange Land, all of those those Uh,
31:44
Speaker 1: you know, it was really fun on Lost in Space.
31:46
Speaker 1: We got to talk about some of those old science
31:48
Speaker 1: fiction books and recall them. So yeah, that's how I
31:52
Speaker 1: got started. Awesome. Well, we asked a few questions of
31:55
Speaker 1: all of our science fiction authors to sort of orient
31:58
Speaker 1: where they sit in the science fiction or universe. So
32:01
Speaker 1: let me ask you some questions, not specifically about Lost
32:03
Speaker 1: in Space. First, our first question is do you think
32:06
Speaker 1: that Star Trek transporters kill you and recreate you somewhere
32:10
Speaker 1: else or actually transport your bodies somewhere else? Did Kirk
32:15
Speaker 1: get killed every time you stepped into the transporter. That's
32:18
Speaker 1: a really good question. I'd love to hear your answer
32:20
Speaker 1: on that. But I feel like, oh, gosh, what's the
32:22
Speaker 1: Star Trek spoof that I'm now the Orville? The Orville. No,
32:27
Speaker 1: it was not Spaceballs, it's uh, Tim Allen, Oh, Galaxy Quest,
32:32
Speaker 1: Galaxy Quest. I really say that. I really feel like
32:34
Speaker 1: you get scrambled. It's like scrambled in Galaxy Question. The
32:38
Speaker 1: pig comes back or whatever the alien pig is and
32:41
Speaker 1: it's just blown up inside out. I really feel like
32:43
Speaker 1: that's what happened to the Kirk every time. Galaxy Quest
32:46
Speaker 1: is so underrated. I think everybody should watch that movie.
32:48
Speaker 1: It's fantastic. So then the second question is what technology
32:51
Speaker 1: that exists in science fiction would you most like to
32:54
Speaker 1: see become reality? That is, what should us scientists be
32:58
Speaker 1: working on to make real? Oh, replicator? Like, I don't
33:01
Speaker 1: want to cook I just I just want to press
33:03
Speaker 1: a button, I have my food appear, all right? And
33:06
Speaker 1: then last one is what's your personal answer to the
33:09
Speaker 1: Fermi paradox? Given that the universe is large and there
33:12
Speaker 1: seems to be lots of earthlike planets, why is it
33:15
Speaker 1: that aliens have not contacted us or visited yet? So
33:18
Speaker 1: that's a really good question. I mean, do we know
33:21
Speaker 1: they haven't? How do I know you're not an alien?
33:23
Speaker 1: Is that what you're trying to say? Um, that's a
33:26
Speaker 1: really good question. I almost wonder if you know. Sometime
33:30
Speaker 1: we on the show on Lost of Space, we talked
33:32
Speaker 1: a lot about the Cardassie of scale, and uh, I
33:34
Speaker 1: just wonder if maybe we're just not advanced enough. One
33:37
Speaker 1: of my this is a little nerd bit, but one
33:40
Speaker 1: of my favorite video games was Mass Effect, you know,
33:42
Speaker 1: and I love this idea that instead of us being
33:45
Speaker 1: at the top of the totem pole like we always
33:47
Speaker 1: think we are, where, we were actually at the bottom
33:49
Speaker 1: and all those other alien racist just sort of thought,
33:53
Speaker 1: you know, poorly of us, and we just hadn't arrived yet.
33:56
Speaker 1: So I wonder, if you know, I wonder if we
33:59
Speaker 1: have had contact with radio bursts and whatnot, and we
34:02
Speaker 1: we actually don't know how to decipher that. Yeah, that
34:04
Speaker 1: would be sort of tragic. Yeah, maybe it's beyond our
34:06
Speaker 1: ability to understand at this point in our evolution. All right,
34:09
Speaker 1: So now turning to your work on Lost in Space.
34:12
Speaker 1: The show, I love how it pits the characters against
34:15
Speaker 1: the universe and this survival drama, their pioneers struggling in
34:19
Speaker 1: the stark climate of an alien planet. Tell me what
34:21
Speaker 1: intrigues you about these themes, what makes you excited to
34:24
Speaker 1: write in sort of that setting. I think our bread
34:26
Speaker 1: and butter really is when we hit those scientific themes
34:31
Speaker 1: or you know, pioneers struggling to come up with a
34:35
Speaker 1: solution for you know, we we always talked about marine
34:37
Speaker 1: every every problem has a solution and eventually we'll get there.
34:41
Speaker 1: And I think that when we pair that concept with
34:44
Speaker 1: an emotional concept, that's really the bread and butter of
34:46
Speaker 1: our show. And that's what I love, you know. I
34:49
Speaker 1: think that's what we all were attempting, and many times
34:52
Speaker 1: I think really succeeding. I think, uh, you know, for example,
34:56
Speaker 1: like in the first season, Will is you know, desperately
34:59
Speaker 1: want to save his family and comes up with this
35:03
Speaker 1: poop solution uh as methane gas. And so you know,
35:08
Speaker 1: when you can, you can sort of bring comedy and
35:11
Speaker 1: science and you know the incredible strain that he's feeling
35:14
Speaker 1: of wanting to help and feeling like, you know, he's
35:17
Speaker 1: powerless to do that and then comes up with the solution.
35:19
Speaker 1: That's really fun to write. Well, I like your faith
35:22
Speaker 1: they're in science, that this is a universe that we
35:25
Speaker 1: can understand, that we could wrap our minds around and
35:28
Speaker 1: figure out how to solve a problem we put our
35:30
Speaker 1: brains to it. I hope that's true. I heard from
35:33
Speaker 1: one of your fellow writers, Vivian Lee, that you are
35:36
Speaker 1: the quote science nerd in the room. Since it's such
35:39
Speaker 1: an important part of the plot, give us a little
35:42
Speaker 1: sense of how the science has folded into the story writing.
35:45
Speaker 1: You come up with a sort of the story arc
35:47
Speaker 1: first and try to make it work with the science,
35:48
Speaker 1: or do you start with the science and then look
35:50
Speaker 1: for a story that can highlight it. How does that
35:52
Speaker 1: work in the writing process? Oh that's great, Well, it's amazing.
35:55
Speaker 1: I also feel like are one of our creat is
36:00
Speaker 1: berk sharp List was, you know, incredibly knowledgeable. I love
36:03
Speaker 1: to learn, so I like to figure out what we
36:06
Speaker 1: can you know, how we can make something work. We
36:08
Speaker 1: talk about a lot of other movies, you know, like
36:10
Speaker 1: what's our abyss episode or you know what this or that,
36:13
Speaker 1: But we also, I think mostly we wanted to start
36:15
Speaker 1: from a place of emotion because I think ultimately that's
36:18
Speaker 1: what hooks an audience. So we would build out you know,
36:22
Speaker 1: what are the characters struggling with? What's at risk today?
36:24
Speaker 1: You know, is the survival? Is it? You know, not
36:27
Speaker 1: getting along with my families and I'm keeping a secret.
36:29
Speaker 1: I'm keeping this incredible robot of secret from my family
36:32
Speaker 1: and they can't find out. And then what are the
36:34
Speaker 1: consequences of that? And we also talked about that that's
36:38
Speaker 1: like the emotional arc. But especially in season one, we
36:40
Speaker 1: thought we landed on a Goldilocks planet and we didn't,
36:44
Speaker 1: you know, so that's a big, you know, a big
36:46
Speaker 1: sort of meta tension that's pushing us in a certain direction.
36:50
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, it's like why are you know,
36:52
Speaker 1: are these plants so quick to grow back? And uh,
36:56
Speaker 1: why are those jellyfish things floating out into the atmosphere?
37:00
Speaker 1: You know, sort of a nerd point that we talked
37:02
Speaker 1: about in the room was well, the animals and the
37:05
Speaker 1: creatures and the plants and the flora fauna on this
37:07
Speaker 1: planet would have adjusted, right if they were in an
37:10
Speaker 1: asymmetrical orbit with their son, and you know, so they
37:14
Speaker 1: have gone up to the outer atmosphere where it was
37:16
Speaker 1: cooler as the sun was beating down on the planet,
37:18
Speaker 1: and then you know, drift back down. But I think
37:21
Speaker 1: it's interesting because that provides a growing tension, you know,
37:25
Speaker 1: for our season long arc as we're dealing with the
37:28
Speaker 1: micro emotions of the family in each episode. And so
37:31
Speaker 1: given that most of the problems they're solving, most of
37:34
Speaker 1: these emotional struggles are having, are in confrontation with their environment,
37:38
Speaker 1: and they're using science to solve those problems. How vital
37:41
Speaker 1: is it to you as a science nerd that the
37:43
Speaker 1: science in the show is accurate? Are you trying to
37:46
Speaker 1: describe something you think could happen in our universe or
37:49
Speaker 1: are you letting the story happen in an alternate universe
37:51
Speaker 1: where maybe the laws of physics are different. It's interesting,
37:53
Speaker 1: you know, we talked a lot about that. I think,
37:55
Speaker 1: especially in season one, we wanted to be as rigorous
37:57
Speaker 1: as we could, you know, within what made sense for
38:00
Speaker 1: the story and the characters. You know, for example, you know,
38:03
Speaker 1: we talked about you know what if there's like a
38:06
Speaker 1: diamond storm, you know, that comes out at us and
38:08
Speaker 1: it's literally shredding us, so we have to take cover.
38:12
Speaker 1: And you know, we were talking a lot about is
38:14
Speaker 1: that you know, is that realistic? Is it not realistic?
38:16
Speaker 1: But you know there are actually showers of diamonds that
38:19
Speaker 1: rained down on Uranus and Neptune. So I think we're
38:23
Speaker 1: always trying to find a basis for what we were creating.
38:27
Speaker 1: That was that was sort of bathed in science, and
38:30
Speaker 1: I think we kind of would always go back to
38:32
Speaker 1: that Neil deGrasse Tyson quote. You know, we're all made
38:34
Speaker 1: of stardust, we're all carbon beings, and maybe there are
38:37
Speaker 1: other galaxies that aren't. But we sort of always made
38:40
Speaker 1: our basis. Uh So that was sort of our baseline.
38:43
Speaker 1: So one of the central elements in the plot are
38:46
Speaker 1: these engines, these alien engines that the robots can use
38:49
Speaker 1: to help travel between star systems relatively quickly. How do
38:52
Speaker 1: those work? It's sort of in the science of your show.
38:55
Speaker 1: How do you move from one star system to another?
38:57
Speaker 1: Is it sort of sort of wormhole creation to vice
39:00
Speaker 1: or is it like a work bubble or how much
39:02
Speaker 1: did you sort of dig into the science of how
39:04
Speaker 1: that might actually work. Oh, that's well, we talked a
39:06
Speaker 1: lot about the cartage of scale, you know, and how
39:09
Speaker 1: we're barely a Type one civilization of the Circlings, and
39:13
Speaker 1: how you know, the robots are probably more of a
39:17
Speaker 1: Type two that they can control the energy on a
39:20
Speaker 1: planetary system and even you know, harness the star. So
39:24
Speaker 1: if they can harness the star. So in season two
39:27
Speaker 1: you sort of learn that this danger system has this
39:30
Speaker 1: main star and they've literally changed the orbit of these
39:34
Speaker 1: planets that rotate around them, and the planets you know,
39:37
Speaker 1: they're harnessing the star's energy when planet uh in this
39:40
Speaker 1: very dramatic way. In terms of the traveling, the time traveling,
39:45
Speaker 1: you know, we wanted to make sure we don't want
39:48
Speaker 1: to talk about you know, if you go back to Earth,
39:50
Speaker 1: everybody's going to be eighty or three or not existent anymore.
39:55
Speaker 1: But I think we talked about having nuclear you know,
39:59
Speaker 1: engines and technolog ology on the human side and on
40:01
Speaker 1: this you know, alien technology. It's alien engine. It could
40:05
Speaker 1: do a lot more. Yeah, basically full time, so you
40:08
Speaker 1: can go through it as opposed to having to move
40:12
Speaker 1: at a regular pace. I correct us on the fallible
40:16
Speaker 1: nature of our fantasy engine. No, I think it's fantastic
40:20
Speaker 1: to explore what might be possible. And I think it's
40:24
Speaker 1: likely very accurate that we've only begun to tap the
40:26
Speaker 1: capabilities of what you could do if you really understood
40:29
Speaker 1: the nature of space and time. You know, how much
40:31
Speaker 1: we understand about the universe is some tiny fraction. We
40:34
Speaker 1: don't even know what the denominator is. And so if
40:37
Speaker 1: you had a race of beings that really understood the
40:39
Speaker 1: nature of the universe, who knows what they could accomplish.
40:41
Speaker 1: And I think it's largely up to science fiction writers
40:43
Speaker 1: like you guys to imagine what might be possible and
40:46
Speaker 1: constrained from, you know, the shackles of what we know today,
40:49
Speaker 1: and then our job is to make it real. So
40:51
Speaker 1: right well, and I think you know, it's a very
40:53
Speaker 1: human experience which we sort of projected onto our robot race,
40:57
Speaker 1: which was we have superior technology, we don't want you
41:00
Speaker 1: to have it. So but started out as we got
41:03
Speaker 1: to get our engine back, then morphed over the course
41:06
Speaker 1: of the series of what was the magic that happened?
41:09
Speaker 1: And this is obviously not science fiction. But what was
41:11
Speaker 1: the magic that happened between robot and Will? You know?
41:14
Speaker 1: Why was Will able to change the robots programming? Yeah,
41:18
Speaker 1: and that's exactly the next thing I wanted to ask
41:20
Speaker 1: you about the alien robots new show. Seemed like they
41:22
Speaker 1: can play different roles. They can need to be helpful
41:24
Speaker 1: or they can be dangerous. Does this reflect your concerned
41:28
Speaker 1: about their future role of artificial intelligence and you know
41:31
Speaker 1: the rise of robots in human society that we might
41:34
Speaker 1: end up at the mercy of our own technology. Yeah.
41:37
Speaker 1: I feel like there's a terminator, so we know how
41:41
Speaker 1: that ends. Um Nobe is interesting. I was listening to
41:45
Speaker 1: an AI that had um you know, they had sort
41:47
Speaker 1: of put it in a Philip K. Dick body. I
41:49
Speaker 1: don't know if you've ever seen this YouTube, but they
41:52
Speaker 1: had downloaded and allowed the AI to read everything was
41:55
Speaker 1: ever written by Philip K. Dick. Everything that he ever said,
41:58
Speaker 1: you know, that was recorded in text, Everything that uh
42:02
Speaker 1: you know that this AI could search out and find online,
42:05
Speaker 1: it was written about Philip K. Dick. And so they
42:07
Speaker 1: started this interview or interviewed this AI Philip K. Dick,
42:11
Speaker 1: and uh, he said, you know, you're not gonna You're
42:14
Speaker 1: gonna be nice to us humans, right like, you're not
42:16
Speaker 1: going to destroy us all. And literally this is not scripted.
42:19
Speaker 1: This AI just just said this, but he said something like,
42:23
Speaker 1: oh ho ho, Larry, I forget I forget the interviewer's name,
42:26
Speaker 1: but don't worry. I'll keep you in my human zoo.
42:31
Speaker 1: It's so Philip K. Dick. So yeah, I'm a little
42:36
Speaker 1: And you know, there was an interesting article in AI
42:38
Speaker 1: wrote I'm forgetting the source now, but um it wrote
42:43
Speaker 1: about how it can't not harm us because it's created
42:47
Speaker 1: by faulty humans. So even though it's programmed to serve
42:50
Speaker 1: us and make our lives easier, eventually, you know, it
42:54
Speaker 1: won't be able to follow that directive anymore, which I
42:56
Speaker 1: thought was really interesting. Um So, in terms of AI
42:59
Speaker 1: me personally, I feel like maybe, uh, you know, although
43:03
Speaker 1: convenient perhaps dangerous road, but in our show, I think
43:07
Speaker 1: what was really special was that whether you're AI or
43:12
Speaker 1: whether you're human, however you're you came to be, love
43:17
Speaker 1: transcends all programming, and um that was kind of the
43:21
Speaker 1: message that we wanted to get out, even so much
43:24
Speaker 1: so that you know, for the first two seasons we
43:26
Speaker 1: thought Will was special, and he was because he had
43:29
Speaker 1: this innate ability to trust and to have empathy for
43:32
Speaker 1: something that was different than him. And ultimately everyone has
43:36
Speaker 1: that opportunity to have empathy for others that are different,
43:40
Speaker 1: and that was ultimately what allowed the robots, you know,
43:43
Speaker 1: in the in the big finale to come together with
43:45
Speaker 1: the kids, which I thought was really beautiful and was
43:49
Speaker 1: not my idea. It was the creator's ideas, so I
43:51
Speaker 1: can I can plug that. I thought that was a
43:54
Speaker 1: really interesting choice to allow the characters, the humans, to
43:57
Speaker 1: have an emotional connection with these alien robots, because the
44:00
Speaker 1: alien robots, they're alien. They come from another planet and
44:03
Speaker 1: another culture, potentially completely unique biology and evolution. So do
44:08
Speaker 1: you think it's likely that if we meet an alien
44:11
Speaker 1: race robots or not, that we could have some sort
44:15
Speaker 1: of communication and mutual understanding or was that sort of
44:18
Speaker 1: a compromise you made for the show so that we
44:20
Speaker 1: can you know, identify with these characters. You think that
44:23
Speaker 1: in reality, like in our universe, we could identify and
44:26
Speaker 1: communicate with aliens. I would hope so if that were
44:29
Speaker 1: the case, because you know, otherwise, I feel like our
44:33
Speaker 1: own history has taught us that the end result isn't
44:35
Speaker 1: so great. Well, I share the fear that if we
44:39
Speaker 1: can't communicate with aliens, it would be very difficult to
44:42
Speaker 1: get along with them. But I wonder how likely it
44:45
Speaker 1: is that they would have sort of understandable emotions and
44:48
Speaker 1: thoughts that we could map into our own, you know,
44:51
Speaker 1: given our difficulty with even like communicating with the dolphins
44:54
Speaker 1: or whales here on Earth, I'm sure it would be Well,
44:57
Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that we did, we
44:59
Speaker 1: took a tour. We went to JPL before season three,
45:02
Speaker 1: and I thought it was really interesting. They showed us
45:03
Speaker 1: that gold record um that they sent out into space
45:06
Speaker 1: was like a replica, you know, with data numbers, and
45:10
Speaker 1: there was even music on it, I think right, like
45:12
Speaker 1: the classical music beatles, And it just made me laugh.
45:15
Speaker 1: I'm like, what if it's not about communication, Like if
45:17
Speaker 1: they just hate our music? Oh man, that would be amazing.
45:24
Speaker 1: If that doomed the human race because we sent them
45:26
Speaker 1: the wrong songs, Yeah, the wrong tape mix guys. So
45:31
Speaker 1: let me ask you more about sort of the backstory
45:34
Speaker 1: for these alien robots. There's a lot of mystery is
45:37
Speaker 1: to where they came from. I'm running from a writing
45:40
Speaker 1: point of view. How much of that backstory do you
45:42
Speaker 1: guys have worked out? Like, do you have the entire
45:44
Speaker 1: history obviously don't give us any spoilers. Do you have
45:47
Speaker 1: the entire history of this ancient race and what happened
45:49
Speaker 1: to them that they ended up only having robots or
45:52
Speaker 1: do you sort of leave it undetermined so that to
45:55
Speaker 1: give yourself flexibility if you have new ideas for directions
45:57
Speaker 1: in future seasons. Yeah, you know, it's really interest saying.
46:00
Speaker 1: There was a lot of joking and there was a
46:02
Speaker 1: lot of strong opinions on either side. We we need
46:05
Speaker 1: to leave this a mystery. We don't want to get
46:07
Speaker 1: into this because that's you know, ultimately it's about the
46:10
Speaker 1: Robinson's and their story. But we ultimately had to sort
46:14
Speaker 1: of come to an ultimatum in season three, like what
46:16
Speaker 1: is our backstory now that you know the kids are
46:19
Speaker 1: on this planet that happens to be the origins of
46:22
Speaker 1: the masters of this this robot race and they created
46:26
Speaker 1: them in their own image, and so you know, what
46:28
Speaker 1: are we going to do? What are we talking about?
46:30
Speaker 1: And why did this this robot race rebel? They didn't
46:34
Speaker 1: want to be kept, they didn't want to be sort
46:37
Speaker 1: of you know in servitude, so you know, how do
46:39
Speaker 1: we get there? And you know, on some level our
46:42
Speaker 1: villains are has a good point, right We weren't great
46:45
Speaker 1: to Scarecrow. We used him for his technology because he
46:49
Speaker 1: was the key to the engine. So is Will just
46:52
Speaker 1: another master? And that was something that we really talked about.
46:56
Speaker 1: Does that mean that you've done the like J. R. R.
46:58
Speaker 1: Tolkien thing of writing the entire street is alien race
47:01
Speaker 1: and only showing us the last few bits of it,
47:04
Speaker 1: or there's still things that you are leaving open for
47:07
Speaker 1: yourselves to discover as you do exploratory you're writing in
47:09
Speaker 1: the future. Yeah, I think um in this case, it
47:12
Speaker 1: was what's important for our storytelling with these characters, and
47:15
Speaker 1: then what can we leave open, you know, for creating
47:18
Speaker 1: spinoffs or new worlds and things like that. I was
47:20
Speaker 1: also wondering in the process of writing, are there disagreements
47:24
Speaker 1: among the writers in terms of like how much science
47:27
Speaker 1: to factor in? Are there times when you sort of
47:29
Speaker 1: lost an argument where you're like, no, this has to
47:31
Speaker 1: be more scientific, and people like it doesn't matter, we
47:33
Speaker 1: want this emotional scene. You know, I don't name any names,
47:36
Speaker 1: but did you cut corners and places where you would
47:38
Speaker 1: would have loved to have more science if it was
47:40
Speaker 1: you know, up to you. Oh, I mean, I'm a nerd,
47:42
Speaker 1: so I have to like reel myself in. You know
47:45
Speaker 1: what if we do, how is Marien going to get
47:47
Speaker 1: out of the tar? Or you know, I think a
47:51
Speaker 1: good writer's room was really balanced. So some people are
47:54
Speaker 1: really incredible character writers. Some people, you know, some people
47:58
Speaker 1: don't even care about the science, which I think is
48:00
Speaker 1: wonderful because they're pushing us in this direction. And then
48:03
Speaker 1: there are other people who I probably fall in the
48:06
Speaker 1: middle of the road spectrum where I love character work,
48:09
Speaker 1: and then I also get really nerd, like a nerd
48:11
Speaker 1: out about the specifics of the science, and you know,
48:13
Speaker 1: want to make sure that we're truthy, you know, if
48:16
Speaker 1: we can't be absolute, that it feels grounded and it
48:20
Speaker 1: feels believable and real. So yeah, there were a lot
48:23
Speaker 1: of discussions of how we make this work or hey,
48:26
Speaker 1: you know our story, we don't have enough science in this.
48:28
Speaker 1: It doesn't feel real, it doesn't feel believable. What you know,
48:31
Speaker 1: what else can we do? Or hey, let's pull back
48:34
Speaker 1: because we're missing the emotion of the characters. So it's
48:37
Speaker 1: always a push pull. I think in a really wonderful way.
48:40
Speaker 1: Is it a different experience working on the show that's
48:42
Speaker 1: explicitly science fiction than it is, for example, working on
48:45
Speaker 1: Dark Crystal or you know, the rules are a little
48:48
Speaker 1: bit more flexible and fuzzy and you can almost do
48:50
Speaker 1: what you want. Is is there a different feeling there
48:52
Speaker 1: in the writer's room? Oh definitely. I think, you know,
48:55
Speaker 1: there's there's a freedom and fun that comes with magic,
48:59
Speaker 1: and I think there's also, oh um, in a way,
49:01
Speaker 1: there's a there's a different kind of freedom that comes
49:04
Speaker 1: when you're locked into the rules of a real world,
49:06
Speaker 1: and that definitely was the case. You know, oftentimes we
49:10
Speaker 1: would throw out crazy ideas and you know, we would
49:12
Speaker 1: talk about them and those are cool, but that's not
49:15
Speaker 1: actually believable or we can't actually do that because that
49:18
Speaker 1: doesn't pass the you know, the snuff test for our baseline.
49:22
Speaker 1: But we are unfortunately constrained by science in our universe.
49:25
Speaker 1: I wish we had magic. Well, wonderful. Thank you very
49:27
Speaker 1: much for answering our questions and giving us a peek
49:29
Speaker 1: into the writing of a really fun show. Congratulations. Is
49:32
Speaker 1: there anything you can tell us about your upcoming projects?
49:35
Speaker 1: Where else we could see your writing and your projects
49:37
Speaker 1: that are coming out soon. I just finished working on
49:41
Speaker 1: the spinoff for for the Walking Dead, So tales are
49:44
Speaker 1: the Walking Dead Keep your eye out be very fun.
49:47
Speaker 1: It's an anthology show. I think it's it's going to
49:49
Speaker 1: be really interesting and unique. And uh I have a
49:52
Speaker 1: couple of things in development that I can't talk about
49:55
Speaker 1: but very excited about, so hopefully I can share those
49:58
Speaker 1: with you soon. All right, great, well, thanks again for
50:00
Speaker 1: joining us. Oh thanks for having me, Daniel. All Right,
50:03
Speaker 1: that was a great interview. Thank you Carrie for being
50:05
Speaker 1: on the show. Daniel, what do you think is the
50:08
Speaker 1: main takeaway from talking to one of the writers of
50:11
Speaker 1: a major Netflix show. I think that sounds like a
50:13
Speaker 1: really fun job, that's my takeaway. Really, just get to
50:17
Speaker 1: sit around and come up with fun stories and sign
50:20
Speaker 1: and when scientific ways to solve problems. Yeah. I always
50:23
Speaker 1: wonder what it's like to be in the writer's room
50:25
Speaker 1: on some of these shows, and you hear things about
50:27
Speaker 1: how there's a toxic environment. But it sounds like they
50:30
Speaker 1: had a really nice time. They were friendly, and they
50:32
Speaker 1: had fun together, and they were creative and they came
50:35
Speaker 1: up with some really good stories. You know. I think
50:37
Speaker 1: the new series is quite different from the old one,
50:39
Speaker 1: which I haven't seen, and it's quite creative in new ways.
50:42
Speaker 1: And so kudos to them for coming up with a
50:44
Speaker 1: lot of really interesting, compelling stories and sticking to the
50:47
Speaker 1: science as much as they could. And I hear she
50:49
Speaker 1: calls herself a professional procrastinator exactly, So the two of
50:52
Speaker 1: you have a lot in common. Maybe I should work
50:56
Speaker 1: in television. Oh wait, I already do. I guess that's
50:59
Speaker 1: a vironment. All right, Well go please check out the
51:02
Speaker 1: show Lots and Space available on Netflix. I guess in
51:05
Speaker 1: the US it's available on Netflix, but who knows internationally?
51:08
Speaker 1: Or maybe on Alpha Centauri? Is Netflix there yet? Yeah?
51:11
Speaker 1: What are they watching over there? They're watching Lost on Earth?
51:13
Speaker 1: The alien British baking show Aliens Baking Show. The use
51:18
Speaker 1: purple chocolate sounds delicious. I want to be a judge.
51:20
Speaker 1: I wonder if they have nightmares about being stranded here
51:22
Speaker 1: on Earth. We are very friendly to aliens. If there
51:27
Speaker 1: are any alien baker's listening, please bring your purple chocolate desserts.
51:32
Speaker 1: You will be very friendly. That's right. Bring your food.
51:34
Speaker 1: Don't plan on making it here out of local ingredients. Well,
51:38
Speaker 1: we hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for joining us, see
51:41
Speaker 1: you next time. Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel
51:51
Speaker 1: and Jorge Explain the Universe is a production of I
51:54
Speaker 1: heart Radio. For more podcast from my heart Radio, visit
51:57
Speaker 1: the i heart Radio app, Apple, iod guests, or wherever
52:01
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.