Latest / For Love We Heal Podcast / Self-realization, Fulfillment & Wholeness as an Inside Job

Transcript

Self-realization, Fulfillment & Wholeness as an Inside Job · For Love We Heal Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Here we go.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the For Love We Hill podcast.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's been like probably over a month since I we put an episode out.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: And uh Liz is joining us now.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: She's gonna be uh uh being on the podcast, uh, you know, I don't know, every couple weeks or so.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh in addition to Grace, Grace is uh Grace is like getting married soon, right?
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: Liz is uh what's happening?
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: She's kind of like doing yeah, she's doing the honeymoon stuff, and so uh Grace is gonna take uh a little bit of a pause here, but she'll be back.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: But we're also bringing Liz on, and Liz is part of the team.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: And Liz has also experienced ROCD.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: So uh Liz, why don't you introduce yourself to everyone and just tell everyone a bit about you and kind of, I don't know, a little snapshot of your your struggle with ROCD and what that kind of looks like.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then what we're gonna do is today we're gonna be talking about self-realization and how most people are looking for what we would consider the self in the other, right?
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: We're looking to achieve a sense of wholeness through finding the right partner or organizing your life in a particular way externally so that you will feel whole.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: And we're gonna be talking about how that's not accurate and how there is a better, more empowering way to go about it.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but before we go into that, Liz, tell us a bit about you.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh first, thanks for having me on.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: It feels really cool to be here.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, my name is Liz.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a certified healing embodied practitioner.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um essentially I'm certified and doing somatic and parts work with clients.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I came to this work because I did this work and it changed my life, and it brought me to where I am today, here with you on a podcast talking about ROCD.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, back in 2020, I met my current boyfriend.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um was kind of it was difficult.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: I cried on our second date.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, not on the date, but right after, just instantly was like so anxious, didn't know what was going on.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'd been waiting my whole life to meet someone like this.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um and pretty instantly I just heard the voice of something's wrong with me.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, there must be something wrong with me, um, to be feeling this way.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, it was like, let's just keep going to therapy.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: How were you feeling?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: What what led you to say what's wrong with me?
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was very in touch with this sense of unworthiness.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like I didn't really deserve the relationship.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I I I don't know that it felt that way immediately.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: I just knew I felt anxious as soon as I woke up.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: I just was like very anxious, and I was, you know, trying to do my things, going for long walks and being kind to myself, but I just felt very unsettled and and this sense of I should just leave.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, right?
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: It was a very classic flight response.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then as I was kept thinking about it and thinking about it, my which I've learned and I maybe kind of knew then, but really had to learn.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my default was just I'm unsafe.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: There's something wrong with me.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: I gotta get away from it.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: Or there's something wrong with my relate.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it was it also like maybe this is wrong for me too, like this relationship.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: It got there.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it got there.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: It didn't start there.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: It got there.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: It didn't start there.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: At first, it was very self-blaming.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like this just feels anxiety ridden.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like I just felt so anxious.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, again, this is our second date.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: Within three months, it got to the point where it was extreme of like, well, I shouldn't be feeling this way.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: There must be some something wrong with the relationship.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that went on for about 10 months, and it just kept getting worse.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Ten months before I finally Googled what was going on and saw about OCD because I was also experiencing other subtypes.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that started, yeah.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: What were you experiencing, if you don't mind sharing?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: No, I don't.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh SO OCD, yeah, harm, uh, a bit of POCD.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you had that too.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's a that's a hard one.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they're all hard.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they're all hard, yeah.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because they all feel real and urgent.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I will say the ROCD was really hard because relationships are so complex, and there is, I know I've seen you and Grace on the show talking about like real relationship problems and OCD kind of stealing the show there.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um so there were real relationship things that needed to be discussed, but the the way that OCD made that into like the most urgent, life-threatening, need to figure this out, um, that actually bled into these other subtypes where again, because my main belief was that there's something wrong with me, I kept asking myself what was going on.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then my brain just latched on to you felt anxious around your nieces.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: You, you know, felt anxious around your friends.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: What does that mean?
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then those subtypes were just creeping in, just infiltrating the yeah, yeah.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I Googled why am I obsessing over my relationship and my sexual orientation, and right there, boom, it was OCD.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt such relief.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, tried ERP, did not like it, just felt like it wasn't really going deep enough.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think there is importance to ERP, and it's something that I even still bring with our clients of like that foundation is still relevant.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, at least in the beginning, when you're so blended with your parts.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's that's a good way to try and create some space.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think so too.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think like if you're going to, you know, like what we resist persists.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: So if you can actually be with something and and learn how to to, you know, not try and escape it and know that it's not gonna hurt you and nothing bad's gonna happen.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's that's good.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um but you're right, it doesn't if it's just that, it doesn't really do, you know, it it sort of diffuses the anxiety, it diffuses the anxiety, right?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: Or I mean, what is it, what did you notice about ERP that helped you?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: It just it well, it was that I have OCD.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: This is OCD.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: This is OCD, this is what OCD does.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: And and where I noticed the shift, so I started doing somatic and parts work.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: When I would say when it was so obsessive and I couldn't find that space and nothing was working, I would use the ERP term of like, maybe I do, maybe I don't, and notice the tension that arose with sitting sitting with that uncertainty.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: As the gateway or the portal into the the wounds around that, right?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because it felt like in therapy when it was be when I was being met with, well, maybe you do, maybe you don't.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, that's it.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just supposed to live with that.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like I didn't know how to sit with that.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, how do you sit with that feeling?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: How do you sit with that?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: You notice what happens in your body.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: You notice how if that's all it is, how do you even because anyway, yeah, yeah.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: You're asking the question.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, sorry, I was answering it, but yeah, at that time, I was like, what do you mean?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Just how do you sit with that uncertainty?
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: How do you be okay?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly okay.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: So right, so pretty classic journey, you know.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, probably most people listening are like nodding their heads right now, hearing you and what you experienced, because that was my experience too.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't have the harm stuff, but I had I had the peace stuff and the and the uh I didn't have the sexual orientation stuff either, but I did when I was a kid, interestingly.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I wasn't in a relationship at that point, you know.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: I was probably like probably hit around hitting puberty and stuff and noticing like male bodies, and I was like, I'm am I attracted to them?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know?
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: I remember this one friend that had like he was working out and he had like you know, six pack and stuff, and I'm like, whoa.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then I was like, Am I gay?
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: And uh it was I think it was more startling at that point because I wasn't in a relationship, it wasn't like, well, should I leave and be with a guy?
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: And it was more of like, Am I a bad person for being gay because you know of the whole internalized homophobia and stuff, like and how it's not okay to be gay.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, you know, my family wasn't very welcoming of gay people either, so yeah, it was that it was around acceptance and belonging.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if if I have this dirty little secret that I'm gay, I'm not gonna be loved.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I think that was the stuff coming up around that.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I mean, I had definitely when I was a kid, I had uh uh like contamination OCD and stuff, and um, I was worried that I was gonna get my family sick and and they would die.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: And we can all OCD is shame work, so as I teach, so you can see how that's very shame-based.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to hurt people.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm the I'm responsible for how people feel.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: And if I can wash my hands a thousand times, then I can control the reality in which no one gets sick and dies, and then I feel in control.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: So now I did hear people.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't, sorry to interrupt.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: No, you go ahead.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: But I just want to say something about that because I too, after being diagnosed, realized that I had it as a kid as well.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: But my I didn't wash hands, I prayed.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up very Catholic.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I had to say the Our Father, the Hail Mary, and the guardian angel prayer three times for each offense or each person that I was afraid.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: So that takes up a lot of time, doesn't it?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and if I didn't, if I got tired, if I fell asleep while I was doing it, I would wake up in such a panic.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: My dad was gonna die today.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, my sister wasn't gonna come back.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's it, right?
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I actually did ERP.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't even know what ERP was.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't even know I had OCD at that point.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I I would just, I just for some reason, I mean, I think it's I think it makes sense that the way that you would do it because I had enough insight to say, this isn't rational.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like me washing my hand not washing my hands is not going to kill my family.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I just wouldn't wash my hands and I would just not do it.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then and see your family.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then I think I just naturally got through that just by, you know, I didn't necessarily intentionally expose myself, but I just stopped washing my hands.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I just allowed myself to be anxious.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, and then but anyway, so um, yes, you when you when you kind of were when you're listening to us, I mean, not everyone on the team has had ROCD, but Grace and Liz and myself and uh have had ROCD and others are you know very acquainted with working with it.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I just want everyone to know you're you're in good hands when you're working with us because we're you know we're we're we're we're well adjusted to to this issue and we know kind of the ins and outs of it.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um but now we we should talk about the the topic today.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: So we're gonna be talking about we might use these interchangeably, like self-realization or self-actualization.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: And and so let's just start by talking about okay, how many of you are s are sitting there and either they're currently having or have had the thought, like, if only my partner were more what?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: And and Liz, what do you what do people commonly say?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if only my partner were more what?
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: What do people say, or what do you have you asked?
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh well this is this is what people have said.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Attractive, uh intelligent, um funny.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um or social.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, being social, being um politically correct.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and the opposite's true as well.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: If only I or my partner found me that that anxiety as well of like, my partner doesn't find me funny.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if my partner finds me attractive.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's interesting.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: I like how you're bringing in the other side because I didn't experience any of that.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: Mine was more mine was more externally focused because my insecurities were more exiled and I had more critic external critics on top.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I wasn't looking at me saying, I'm unworthy.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: I was, I was like, you're unworthy, you're not good enough.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: Because I knew I am in, you know, I still have these parts to some degree, but I I know now that I felt incredibly unworthy and ugly and worthless and that.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: But I wasn't, I was so out of touch with it that that got extra projected outward on my partner as a way to not deal with my own stuff.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: Because I believe that if I could change her into the image of what I think is acceptable, then I'm okay, then I'll be okay, and I'll be acceptable.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I was desperately trying to control the external reality in an attempt for me to feel okay.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: Safe.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: But yep.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: Safe.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then if you get and then, but but more like anxiously attached, if you're more anxious-leaning ROCD, it can be more about um me and I'm not good enough, and I'm this and that.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: So we we have a blend and we can blend between the two.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like we can.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say there's also I was both, yeah.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: It started with me, and then it began to project out towards him, and then ultimately obviously came back to me.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: It comes back.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: So so when we're asking these questions, so if only my partner were more fill-in-the-blank, anything.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: Now we have to ask ourselves, what are we trying to achieve by controlling?
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: And and again, it's what it is, is it's it's what we might call deficit needs.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: And deficit needs are things that where we're looking to our partner to be a certain way so that we have an experience of safety where we feel whole, where we feel fulfilled, where we are uh, you know, complete.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: And this is the falling in love.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: This is the whole thing about falling in love.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: We're falling in love with the story of who the other person is, and this is our story.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's not, they're not even we're not even taking them into consideration at all at this point.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: We fall in love with the projection and with the story of who we think the other person is that will fulfill our deepest desires and longings for love and for wholeness.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: Now, this is where this is where we have to talk about, like, uh, and Scott Peck, if you've read the The Road Less Traveled, have you ever read that book?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: I haven't, no.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, well, so the Road Less Travel, it's a night book from 197.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna just have my notes over here.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's a book 1978.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: Uh M M.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: Scott Peck wrote it.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: And he describes falling in love as a temporary collapse of ego boundaries.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: In other words, our protectors soften as the exiles underneath are soothed and comforted by feeling wanted, chosen, and connected to.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: Right now, so these ego boundaries and our protection and our wounding soften, and then we get in touch with the core place inside of ourselves that is love.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: But what we're not realizing is that it's our love that we're feeling, and it's not coming from the other person.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: We think that, we think that so, so it's a collapsing of our ego boundaries.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: They sort of act as a key that unlocks the place inside of ourselves that is love.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: But what we fail to realize, and there's other things, obviously, there's lots of neurochemicals and dopamine and all the shit that's happening, but all of that, all of the neurochemicals and all this stuff, it's it relaxes our system, and then we get in touch with the place inside of ourselves that is always there and was there before this person to be able to feel into the place of wholeness within ourselves.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: Now, if we don't know that, then we think that that the other person is the is the reason we feel that way.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: So when we fall out of love, like everyone does, and we're essentially we're falling out of this love story or the infatuation or the store that we create, then we think that, well, we must need to find somebody else that can bring us back to that place.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: What we're failing to realize is that it was already there inside of us.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's just that the ego boundaries soften due to the excitement and the all these things with the other person.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: But when we fall out of love and we realize that this other person is just a human being, like and that they're not the fan, the healing fantasy that we've created, then the ego boundaries start to come back up and the crust and the defenses come up, and then it covers our heart again, and we feel like we've fallen out of love.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: But we haven't fallen out of anything.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: We're we were always there, we were there before.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's just that like the moon eclipses the sun, the it feels like the warmth of the sun goes away, but it just gets covered.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: I love that imagery.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: So do you want us anything that comes up for you around that?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: No pressure.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: No, I love this conversation.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think that this was a really big turning point for me and the work that I was doing because there is we're all conditioned.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: We are all born and and just through being in society, just through being in relationship with others, we start to become conditioned and we start to unconsciously learn what gives love and what takes away love, right?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's what our our nervous system is tracking that at all times.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's a part of being human.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: And through that, we develop protective strategies.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then we come and we live our lives just, you know, being in those protections, craving love so deeply.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Whether we're consciously or even verbally expressing that, we are all craving to come back to that.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um and society for a lot of people we're sold that it's in relationship.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's that when you found find the one you know, and everything should should feel good.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it's marketing.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's marketing when brainwashing.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's actually it actually serves the capitalistic system to sell us this idea because there's so many products and there's so many things that we fall into as a as an attempt to achieve this state of enlightenment or whatever we want to think of it.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: If I only buy this or have that or do this, then my life's gonna feel whole and complete.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's perfect.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, in in terms of capitalistic ways and and and money generating, it's it's a it's actually extremely uh uh it works.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's I'm not saying it's good, I'm not saying it's right.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm saying that it works.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: And people have been brainwashed to think that all of the answers come from outside of them.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: Governments do it, authoritarian, you know, that we that we will give you a better life, and you just have to put your your hands and your trust in something other than what you are.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, exactly.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that's I could talk about that, but that's that's a whole other conversation.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's intentional and it's it's they're feeding off of our survival brain, right?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if if everyone wants, if everyone felt that true connection to self, which to me is the first step is self-realization, realizing, recognizing there is something beyond my thoughts and my my desires.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: There's something beyond that that's deeper, that's that's that doesn't have condition, it doesn't have protection strategies, it just is, and it's warm.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's everything that you could ever want, and it's everything that you can ever need because it is everything.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: The self is it from a spiritual perspective, there's nothing missing.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: It contains everything, and it's it's essentially the whole universe in, you know.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: And it's complete love.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's full love.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and I think that you know, we we if whatever your belief system is, we're we're whole, we're born into the world, we experience a sense uh the reality that we're separate from everything, and that, and that the bonding between the child and the parent is is the sort of need is a necessary element to maintain this level.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's like we're born into the world, we come from the one, which is God, or whatever we want to think of it, and then we're like this particle that comes out and we're separate and we don't feel connected to the one.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: And it's through our life experiences that we can sort of maintain that connection to the one through the parent, and then we grow up.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: If we have that that loving, supportive connection with the parent, we internalize that love and we take it with us, and we don't feel a lack.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: But unfortunately, as you know, it's it's hard to do that as a parent for a lot of parents, and and we could play the blame game too.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, some parents just suck anyway, so they're you know, we can point the finger and say they suck, and but also too, like then we then we're trying to get back to it.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: We're always trying to get back to this feeling, a sense of wholeness and oneness.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then again, we're sold the idea that all these other things are gonna do that.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: And the interesting thing is, is that that is true to some degree because as a human, it was we did need to look to something else or someone else for that.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: So it would make sense that as adults, we're still looking to someone else for that.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's just we're looking to a romantic partner for it.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: But that the deficit need is a need that was supposed to come, you know, was supposed to be filled by the parent.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: But if it's not filled by the parent, well, then who can it be filled by?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right, your partner.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's what the what's what they think.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, but really it's either in in present reality, if we're really conscious about it, since it didn't come from the parent, well, it has to come from a therapeutic relationship and a connection to the self, which is yes, yes, but anyway, you were saying I kind of trailed off, but what oh my gosh, I feel like we could trail off on a thousand things.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think what I want to bring it back to is that it is like you you said it yourself, we need we're we're born into this world relying on someone, right?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: And just to keep us alive, but then that deeper layer of to show our nervous system safety, to be accepted, to be loved, regardless of how much you're crying or screaming or throwing a tantrum, to have presence.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um and when you don't have that in your parents, even if you do, you could still have that hypervigilance of I just lost love.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like you could be a very sensitive person to that sensation of um, I know how to perform in a way that gets me that feeling.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I know what that loss feels like.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then you, because you haven't necessarily learned how to feel that within yourself, you just start outsourcing.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: And to bring it back to my compulsions as a child, I was outsourcing to God.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Everything for me was relational in that I bear that responsibility and now God is seeing me.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I was outsourcing my worthiness to God, which is so interesting because now, full circle, it's a different type of relationship that I have with a higher power.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the universe I like to say now.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, but it's it's returned me to that, but differently than it was.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: Because you were cat, it was cat Catholicism, was it?
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and I don't know a lot about Catholicism, but what I know about organized religion is that um you've outsourced it to a conditional God, to a God in your mind that is conditional.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: That love is conditional, so punitive.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: And punitive.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not love.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't love, but the the truth, whatever we want to think of itself or God, or Buddha mind or whatever is unconditional.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: When you feel it, it doesn't judge, it doesn't see you as different, or it just sees you as the most important thing in the world to it, or I, I mean, we could speak it to it.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's it's it's oneness.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: So it's me, but it's there's anyway, there we are God.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the self is a sort of we might think of it as a particle of the greater whole, right?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: So we're all little pieces of God.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: And anyway, we could go on about that.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: But I that and and the work of self, so self-realization is realizing that I have God, self, yeah, universe in me.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad you said that.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: So how do you self-actualization is the work of becoming your actual self?
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's noticing I have a self in me, and everything, all of these conditions, these protective mechanisms, their roles, they're wonderful.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're they're their their intent is to protect, their intent is to get us back to love.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: Though the performance that they're doing is conditioned and learned.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, a lot of my clients I'll say, Well, where did you learn that?
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: Where did you learn that shaming yourself?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: It and it it usually is, oh, well, I I watched my parent do that.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: Or so it's it's that part is conditioned.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: So being in yourself is seeing that with love and acceptance, not accepting it as truth, but accepting that as a part of me that has been conditioned, that is trying to protect me, and having initially at least just softness towards it, as you would if you were a godly being, right?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like you wouldn't want to shame a little child that's feeling a certain way or behaving a certain way.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: You would want to know that that child's in pain, yeah, and that they're just projecting something that they've learned themselves.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: I uh so this is you're right.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: So we're tying it now into self-actualize or self-realization, which you're right, is it's a returning to who you always were.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, uh self-actualization is becoming who you really are, but really what it is is we're returning to who we always were.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: And the work, uh the work is is recognizing that your partner literally has nothing to do with your capacity to be fully expressive and authentic in your life.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I want people to realize is that you're what you're really looking for in your relationship is a true connection to yourself and to fully realize your potential and your creativity and and everything in this life.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: And we're thinking that if only my partner were a certain way, then I will be able to fully realize myself.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: But they actually have nothing to do with it.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's an inside job.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: There is one thing though, and I have um there is one thing like what what we do need is that if we're in a are in a relationship, um we do need a partner that's going to support that.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: If they're not, because you know what I mean, yeah, the partner needs to be in support of our self-realization.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because now that's not going to be perfect because if as most pupp couples can get into, there is often codependency in some ways or a meshment in some ways.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: So as soon as you start forking it out and starting to become more of who you really are, that the there can be a little bit of a an upset of the balance in the relationship where the partner might go, oh no, this isn't who I, this isn't what I signed up for, or who this isn't the person that I remember that I was with.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: So there needs to be a as if we can be conscious of this, and as each person grows and we learn how to hold on to ourselves and manage our anxiety around the individual differences in the relationship, which is a catalyst for self-realization, self-actualization, then that's what needs to happen.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're with a partner that as you start to grow, they start to freak out and try to pull you back down and say, Why are you doing that?
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: or they don't support your dreams, or they don't support your goals.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's a serious conversation that needs to be had around are you willing to get to the point where you can support me in becoming my true authentic self-expression?
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: And if not, then that might mean that we need to break up because we need to be in support of each other being fully authentic.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I want, just because I know how this works, I want to speak to the people that are hearing that and thinking, well, my partner isn't over the moon or asking me all the time how it's going, or maybe there is because I felt this insecurity around how my partner was showing up.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: And there was some truth in that that we actually recently had a conversation around that went super well, and he owned his behaviors and patterns in that.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to say that it's not always going to be whatever your mind just went to of what that looks like.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: I want to slow that down.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a good call.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: And just say that unless it's egregious, if your partner is shaming you, if they're um, yeah, I guess that's the biggest one.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: If they're shaming you, if they're being abusive in any sort of way, that's a different story.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: But if you notice your partner has discomfort around what's going on with you, that's their path.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I would just encourage you to keep working on what that brings up for you.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: For me, it made me feel shame.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: I felt like again, that sense of there's something wrong with me, just that desire to leave.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: It, and that's where I honed in on.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that also brings me to something I wanted to say earlier is that the and you said it, the relationship is the catalyst.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I feel like self-realization and self-actualization, the call for it is the same.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same message, but our perception of that message at first is to outsource it.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: And the work is to reposition how you're seeing that message and to see it as well, what is this bringing up in me?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, that's right.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: While your partner has nothing to do with your your ability to be fully self-expressive and authentic, what they do help with is they help mirror the insecurities and the wounding in you that by you working on those woundings and insecurities and protection, you do get closer to self-realization.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: So they're not the solution, they're not necessarily what's going to give you the fulfillment and the self-expression, but they're going to help you see where you need work.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: So it's the triggers, and and as as as Richard Schwartz says, like our partner is our tormentor, right?
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: They're the torment that we experience in relationship is a form of mentorship because it's helping us see the things that keep us from ourself.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um oh my gosh, I I was just gonna say something about that, but then you froze.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I froze distracted for a second, or at least on my end.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: I want to bring up an example that um clients bring up and just to help folks listening to to understand what we're saying.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: I have a client that I have several clients, but I'm thinking of one specifically, who was very upset about how their partner shows up um with their excitement in response to their excitement.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually have clients where it's the opposite as well, and the approach is the same.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: But the client I'm thinking about specifically will say, like, they don't share my excitement.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: They're actually kind of grumpy and they're they never like meet me where I am.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then so the curiosity came towards, and then what is what comes up for you?
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: What does that mean to you?
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, it means that I can never be my full self.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: It means I can never actually be free.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: And the work around that is understanding how your body and your internal system, I believe, I imagine parts pulling on levers in our nervous system, right?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: So noticing though, first the body, what what comes up when when that happens, when you your partner doesn't meet you in that excitement?
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I I want to shrink, I want to get small.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: How you want to get small around that?
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: How do we show you and your parts and your body that it's safe to still stay big when someone isn't meeting you there?
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because also the contrary to that is what if he doesn't feel safe being big?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you're now now you're shaming him and not being big enough.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so then that that we are also here to show our partner something.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just a one-sided thing.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where if you do the work and you learn that you can show your partner, and then maybe not that this is the intent, but maybe your partner will say, Wow, they just got so big, they're not scared anymore.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: I feel their energy is different.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I can relax a little, and maybe not.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you're just a grumpy person, and can you accept that?
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: Can you still stay grounded in self and who you are, regardless of who's around you?
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's you have to get clear.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's a lot of nuance here.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's not as clear-cut as saying, yeah, you need a partner who's supportive of your growth.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's always, always first, you need to have you need to communicate it.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: It always needs to be done first through communication.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm noticing that as I get excited, you're grumpy or you don't share that excitement with me.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: What's going on for you?
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: Instead of, oh no, my partner doesn't share my excitement.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: I should leave and find someone else.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like before you ever get to that point, always talk about it.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, because that's the opportunity.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because it might be that the partner's just doing that unconsciously.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: It makes them that makes them uh cringe in some way because they've exiled their excitement.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: So that might be a vehicle and an opportunity for them to get in touch with their fears around them being excited or joyful.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not a clear cut, like yes or no, you're in the right or wrong relationship if your partner doesn't support you.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's how can we enter into this consciously through communication and see if we can navigate our way through it?
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's the work.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's what makes it a conscious relationship.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: Is you're you're noticing the discomfort that comes up in you.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: You're naming that.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: I would even encourage someone to say, I always say to my clients when they're like, I feel like she's uh ridiculing me, or I feel like she's this, and it's like, no, that's a thought.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: You're naming a feeling through thought.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: You feel what?
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: I feel scared that she's ridiculing me.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: I feel anxious that he's not meeting me where I am.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that's by naming that to your partner, they might not respond well.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: They might initially be defensive.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that's the work, right?
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: You're not bringing something in your up in your partner that they may need to look at, but at least for you, you're naming that in a way that's like, I'm holding responsibility on myself.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: I feel fear, but we're carrying this together so you understand me better.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so maybe you understand yourself better, etc.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: But conscious relationships will lead to self-realization, which will then bring you to self-actualization if you keep following that.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, exactly.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so uh, I'll just look it up my notes.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: So um, right, so I just wanted to name so the the book We by Robert Johnson.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: Have you ever read that?
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, well, you should read that.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah, yeah.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I recommend everyone reading both the The Road Less Traveled and We by Robert Johnson.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so Johnson was a young analyst, and he this is the way he describes romantic love.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: So he says that romantic love has taken religion's place.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: And right, he argues that in the West, romantic love became the main place people look to for meaning, transcendence, and wholeness.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: The things that people used to look for in the sacred.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: So we bring a spiritual hunger to a human relationship.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_02: And and he's he talks about falling in love as projection.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: In Jungian terms, we carry an image of our own soul.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: When we fall in love, we project that image onto another person.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: The glow, the sense of having found something divine, the feeling of being more alive is real, but it's coming from inside us, and the partner is carrying it for us.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: And the projection always wears off.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: When it does, when it wears off, we conclude that either the partner changed or that we picked wrong.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: So we either try to force them back into the image or we go looking for someone new who can carry it.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's the chasing that that we're describing.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: The fix is to take the projection back.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: Johnson's answer is to relate to that inner soul image directly through inner work, right?
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: And then and then love the actual human in front of you.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's in essence what we're already saying, right?
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: So that's so interesting to hear it said like that, especially for me personally, where I had a bit of uh scrupulosity as a as a child to then grow out of that, but grow towards the the man I'm gonna marry is going to be like God, yeah.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's so yeah, yeah.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: How interesting.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think so much pressure on a person.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's so much, and uh, and you know, we we're so disconnected from spirituality in our culture, so many of us that and Esther Perel says, you know, we look to our relationships to provide what an entire village once did, right?
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_02: A sense of meaning, continuity, grounding.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: And she says, no wonder our relationships crumble under the weight of it all, because our our partners are caring so much when that's not the job of a relationship, it's the job of a community and a spiritual practice.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: And then our our relationship becomes one piece of a greater set of pillars that acts as a foundation of our life.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_02: But when, you know, Jesus, it's one pillar, it's not gonna last that way.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_02: If we don't do the work to heal and to actually grow community, to have a sense of community, to have a spiritual practice, whatever that looks like for you.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it, maybe it's not religion.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm I'm particularly, you know, uh, you know, a follower of you know, the boot like Buddhism and Buddhist practices and stuff and like Tibetan Buddhism, where it's very IFS, it's very look deeply into your suffering.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's not about bypassing or transcending the suffering, it's actually being with suffering, and then that then provides that connection to the self is what we're talking about.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: But something, some way of tapping into something that's greater than yourself.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: Community does that, you know, connecting with other people.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_02: And we need a lot, we need these different things too to feel oh, for sure.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, you just said so much.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: The first thing I want to say, just with regards to religion and Buddhism, it's so interesting how for me in my journey, it also brought me closer to Buddhism.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the and the realization, having grown up super Catholic, is that that's also what Jesus was talking about.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's it's just man took the scriptures and turned it into their own thing.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: But Jesus was ultimately saying not to, and this I'm no longer practicing, but I I I'm intrigued by all these stories because to me it is like these people are downloading information, right?
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: I've had that feeling before of like we are the universe experiencing itself, and that landed so deeply.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I believe that that's what happens.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: And and I even will say to clients who are practicing Catholics, um, that maybe the the word was like we have made it punitive, but maybe that that feeling of disappointment is the feeling you have to actually feel, not the shame, right?
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's very human conditioning, bringing shame into it.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: But if you've done something, because a lot of clients, as you know, will say, But I feel so guilty.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: This is such a terrible thing to be doing.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, can you just stay with that feeling?
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that that by staying with that feeling, by moving through that, by allowing that feeling to be here, by meeting it with love, you are actually transforming that feeling into something.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's being alchemized versus staying in shame, which is controlling, which projects really gnarly stuff at you that you don't understand.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think that that is what.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: All most religions are preaching is like just we have a body.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: The body is to feel and it's to be used as a vessel for feeling.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: I personally believe that's the whole point of the human experience is for our self to evolve through feeling and greeting and meeting with love.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: And this is something that I say to my clients of when you reach this point, which isn't static, like I still fall out of self and I have to realize, like, oh, I'm falling into an old pattern.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's much quicker.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: But when you are, oops, sorry, I'm being emphatic now.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: When you are in that, then love is overflowing.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like everything else is a complement to your experience rather than a necessity, a requirement, um, a need.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: It is I am and I'm safe in that.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: And now I've got this person who loves me and shows up for me this way, and this person who loves me and shows up for me this way.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, this person has never showed up for me, but I could feel for them because of what they have not been able to uncover in themselves.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um I could do that with I'm just thinking of people that I loathe in this universe.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: I could still have moments for those people that are terrible and corn.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_02: When you tap into self, you can, right?
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: When the parts blend and they're hurt and and there's betrayal, and you know, it's hard to it's hard to find to have that sense of forgiveness and compassion.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: But and but as as the more oh sorry, sorry.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_02: Go ahead.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_02: No, you you're you're on a roll.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: The more you do that for yourself, the more you're able to accept those corrupt, bad parts of your bad.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: I want to say that too, parts of yourself and noticing.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: If you're listening, the parts are bad, yeah.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that starts to melt, then it's easier for you to kind of feel that towards others.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: And the opposite of that is where we start.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: The opposite of that is what I reject in myself unconsciously, I'm rejecting in you.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you need to fix that in order for me not to feel this way.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: But if I can work on accepting that within me, noticing the actual intent of that part, which is to protect and keep me safe, even though it's not behaving in a way that I'm aligned with, when I can be with that and show it the alternative, then I notice that I can be with my partner saying something that was not cool, or or or just being in a bad mood, or yeah, whatever it is.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, exactly.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that obviously that expands then outside of just that relationship, it's all relational.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I can have empathy for the person that gave me the finger on the highway, just thinking because that happened recently.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: Did it?
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um I love that.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_02: I think that, you know, the this work is all about extricating ourselves from our wounding.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_02: As we do that, we find peace, you know, and we could tolerate people being feeling things around us that we once didn't like, you know, if our partners grumpy, we don't have to fix them, we don't have to make them feel better, we don't have to have them feel differently in order for us to feel okay.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's the codependency and the the enmeshment that happens.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it comes from that's shaming for your partner.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's your partner then saying, I can't be this way.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's like if they're like grumpy at you and treating you with like disdain and contempt, then it's like, okay, I don't appreciate that.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_02: You then then a boundary is needed.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: But if they're just grumpy, if they had a bad day and you don't like that, then you gotta look into what it is inside of you that's sort of rejecting their bad mood because it's creating some insecurity or fear in you.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_02: And then you don't need to look at that as a way to right.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a difference.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's if your partner's just in a bad mood and you get taken off your if you lose yourself when they're in a bad mood, then you got to ask why?
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_02: Why am I regressing into something or feeling terrible or taking on their mood?
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_02: What is keeping me from being grounded within who I am?
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, use that as the vehicle to help you work through whatever that is so that you can stay grounded in yourself when things around you aren't the way that you would prefer them to be.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: Why do you lose yourself?
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: Why do you then have to get small or change your behavior?
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: And and for that other scenario where if your partner's grumpy and they're being rude to you, I'm curious about in that instance, how do you respond?
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: Do you also get small?
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like is there a is there an opportunity to feel safe setting a boundary?
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: And what prevents you from doing that?
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: So in either scenario, there's still work on your end to figure out how to come.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: You can be in self and set a boundary.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: It can be a loving action that's that's grounded and with love saying, I don't like that.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's not okay.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_02: Ideally, ideally, we get to the point where we can be able to stay in our love, which is stay in self and also say no.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes you're gonna have to set boundaries that are more coming from an angry place, you know, not like fuck you, you're such a shitty person, don't ever do that, but more of like, I'm not okay with that, you know what I mean?
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_02: Which can be loving, which can be love too.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: But that's what I called sacred, sacred anger, shame, anger so much.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like, well, that anger started from a sacred place that was wanting to set a boundary that you couldn't then do, so you internalized it, and and that anger is either being directed at you or it's being directed at the wrong places.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: But originally, that there was a desire to set a boundary to say, no, not cool, not okay.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: Love is still here, but I won't accept that.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, so you can have sacred anger and say that's true that because our soul, like my spirit wants yours to evolve too, right?
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: And and if I do that through shame, that's just I mean, when it's cutting us both off.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because the energy of shame is heavy.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: If you think about just our energy being flowy, like really I like to think of it as like I mean it changes, but anyway, I don't want to get down that route.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's too woo-woo.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: But the the energy of shame is very heavy, it weighs you down, it's a lower consciousness energy.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: So if I'm using that to help you, it's not actually working.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm using love, which is warm, which is open, but still I'm setting a boundary, that's up to you to receive it in that way.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: And if shame comes up for you, that's your own work.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: But at least I know for me I'm approaching that with this, this, this opening and this understanding, whether, whatever, whatever that looks like, whatever that decision, whatever that boundary is, it can be done from a place that's a bit lighter.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't yeah.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, the intent there is that I want you to evolve, whether consciously or not.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: And the way that I approach that starts with how I approach it within myself, right?
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like when we have parts that are saying something nasty, or we have that internalized shame, a lot of the work is stepping in and saying, no.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: How dare you say that to that eight-year-old version of me?
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: You can't do that.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: We're not saying that with hatred, we're not approaching that with this anger that's like obliterate, you're wrong, you're bad.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's saying not okay.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: Nope.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_02: And that actually, and that boundary.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've I I uh, you know, maybe you do too, but I have experienced like if my partner's really upset with me or something, and you know, she has a shaming critic that comes out and basically wants to change me or or speaks so speaks in a way that shakes me to where I will want to change because of how shame-inducing it feels, right?
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: We think that if we can just speak to them in a certain way and we can be harsh enough, then they will realize how much they hurt us and that we'll never do, they'll never do that again.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, if that happened, I mean we all do it, but if that happens and we can say, I'm not okay with that.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'm happy to talk to you about this.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_02: I want to communicate on this, I want to find a way through this, but I'm only gonna do it if if we can do it from a place of calm.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_02: And what happens is is that actually, because this person wants that, like the protectors want that, they think they're gonna achieve that by shaming you.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_02: But if you don't allow that, then they have no choice but to soften, and then we can come back together in a way that's calm and we can sort out.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_02: So we actually, if we act from self, it's a catalyst for them being in self, and then we can resolve it.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, but also the that's because the intent of those shameful protectors is to be heard.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: So by you responding with, hey, I want to talk about this, I want to work through this, I hear you, but you can't talk to me that way.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: That part has at least gotten what it wanted.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: It hears you saying, Oh, okay, I don't have to approach that with so much shame.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: He wants to work through this, so I can soften.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because I when you said that, I was like, or the other option of that is those parts dig their heels in and say, but but that's only if you were to also respond very quickly with shame and anger.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_00: Which by the way, sometimes that's also what happens, and then your parts are against your partner's parts, and then eventually you both cool down and you're like, ooh.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I know.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_02: Oh shit.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_02: What oops.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_03: My bad.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_02: And eventually, eventually, hopefully, you figure out that that's not getting you anywhere, anyway.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it never gets you anywhere.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we've this isn't working.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_02: We've been down that road a thousand times.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe we should probably we should probably try something different.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what time is it?
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_02: 10 02.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_02: Uh well, anything else?
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_02: So we'll close soon.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think we've I think we've covered it pretty much.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_02: So um how, you know, in closing, like if you want to do this work, uh sign up for the the uh coursing community that that I have.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh, you know, you can sign up monthly.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_02: You can either get the foundations, which just includes the 12-hour course, the WhatsApp community that we're actually really active and people are talking there every day.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think I woke up to like 15 messages of people going back and forth and actually supporting one another because what you get is that you have people that have been in the course for a while, and if you're new, the people that have been in the course a while are actually wanting to support you and the people who are so there's a lot of really good, yeah, it's it's really nice.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so you get that, you get the WhatsApp community, and you get the app, and people actually are just like spontaneously messaging and saying, Finding this app so helpful, it's helped me help help me understand the difference between self and parts.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_02: And there's uh, you know, there's a IFS guided uh uh AI to help you guide through the IFS work.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_02: There's in when you're spiraling, there's a button you can press and it brings helps bring you back from your spiral.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_02: There's lots of cool uh um uh functions in the app that I think you'd find really beneficial.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_02: So if you want to sign up for that, sign up for that.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's 47 bucks a month for the foundations.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_02: And if you want to come to our weekly support groups, and actually today at three, uh I'm doing a special uh two-hour healing circle, an autumn healing circle.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_02: And we're I pick three participants from the group, and we do three 30-minute sessions with everyone holding self and holding space.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_02: And then we have 30 minutes at the end for for you know group processing and stuff.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_02: But these these groups are really cool because it gives each participant not only a chance to work with me, but also there's this magic that happens when the container is held with a bunch of self-energy because it it just seems to speed up and allow the work to deepen really well.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I just find that magic happens in the group.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so if the if you listen to this episode today and you have time and you're in time for the group at three Eastern, uh sign up for the the uh circle membership, which is 97 a month.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_02: So you get everything that you get in the foundations, the course, the app, and the WhatsApp, and you get weekly support groups as well.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_02: So uh encourage you to do that.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_02: Liz obviously is now is on the team, she's been with us for a while, and she's you know, she's a great practitioner.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_02: So if you want to do one-to-one work, um, I think you're I think you're full right now, Liz, but right?
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but I mean Yeah, but sign up and you know, um, shouldn't be too long before you could get a spot with Liz if you want to.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I think that does it.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think I just want to wrap by saying, just to kind of bring it back to the self-realization, self-actualization, the key to doing that is slowing down with yourself and noticing what this brings up in you.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_00: Again, if it's an abusive relationship, if someone is being harmful towards you, that's different.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're noticing that small things your partner does or doesn't do brings up all this anxiety, realize that it's a part of you that's begging for your attention.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_00: Not for your partner to come in and save them.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's what they're saying because that's what they've been conditioned to believe.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but start bringing curiosity towards how you can help this part feel full and whole and not your partner.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_02: And the and the course gives you literally the whole framework to do that.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_02: So, like it's e you know, people are probably like, well, okay, that's great, but how do I actually do that?
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_02: The course and the app and everything gives you the full step-by-step template to actually know how to start doing that.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_02: So that will if you're wondering, like, oh, I want to self-actualize and I want this to be my reality.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know what to do.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_02: Cool.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I'll sit on the other side, Liz.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_02: And all right, thanks everyone for tuning in today.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we're uh we're we're kicking the podcast back up.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_02: We take I've taken a little break on the podcast, but I'm feeling inspired to keep moving forward with it.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_02: So we'll see you all uh in a couple weeks.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_02: Sounds good.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_02: All right.