Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: DAY 18

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SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: DAY 18 · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie,
0:09
Speaker 1: missing day seventeen.
0:12
Speaker 2: How did this.
0:13
Speaker 1: Guy seemingly amateurish yanking up foliage to put over the
0:21
Speaker 1: door cam, wearing a gun polyester gun holster hanging down
0:27
Speaker 1: around his crotch.
0:29
Speaker 2: How has this guy managed to.
0:31
Speaker 1: Elude law enforcement including the FBI. Is Nancy Guthrie still alive?
0:40
Speaker 1: If so, what is she enduring? I'm Nancy Grace. This
0:43
Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being
0:46
Speaker 1: with us.
0:47
Speaker 3: It's been two weeks since our mom was taken. We
0:53
Speaker 3: still have hope, We still believe to whoever has her
1:00
Speaker 3: or knows where she is. It's never too late.
1:04
Speaker 1: As we go to air tonight, a blue fly technology,
1:08
Speaker 1: a very sophisticated technology to detect low frequency bluetooth waves
1:15
Speaker 1: is being used hopefully to find some evidence of Nancy
1:20
Speaker 1: Guthrie's heart monitor perpase Maker.
1:24
Speaker 2: This as reports of the match.
1:26
Speaker 1: To the single glove found As we hear DNA will
1:31
Speaker 1: link to the DNA found in the home. How do
1:34
Speaker 1: they know that? Is that inaccurate? Is that overstating?
1:39
Speaker 2: Again?
1:40
Speaker 1: With me an all star panel to make sense of
1:42
Speaker 1: what we are learning. Now to Dave Mac, joining US
1:45
Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter, Dave Mac, tell me about the
1:48
Speaker 1: blue fly technology.
1:52
Speaker 4: This is amazing technology, Nancy, that focuses in on Bluetooth
1:57
Speaker 4: identities electronics. Okay, it flies on a drone about six
2:03
Speaker 4: hundred It can pick up the Bluetooth signal or a
2:06
Speaker 4: Wi Fi signal from over two football fields away, about
2:10
Speaker 4: six hundred and sixty five feet.
2:12
Speaker 2: Well, hold on, hold on.
2:13
Speaker 1: Did you say two football feels away. Yes, I didn't
2:21
Speaker 1: understand that that is significant.
2:23
Speaker 2: Hold on, hold on, Dave Mac.
2:25
Speaker 1: Brian Fitzgibbons joining US Director Operations USP, a nationwide security
2:31
Speaker 1: leading a team of investigators around the world to find
2:34
Speaker 1: missing people. Also, former marine an Iraqi war Vet Fitz, thank.
2:41
Speaker 2: You for being with us tonight. Now hold on two
2:46
Speaker 2: football fields away. That is news to me. Tell me
2:50
Speaker 2: how that works.
2:51
Speaker 5: Yeah, so we've actually learned in recent days. In fellow
2:55
Speaker 5: former marine Dave Kennedy and cybersecurity expert, has posted shared
3:00
Speaker 5: this publicly that he's created an integration with an amplifier,
3:07
Speaker 5: a larger antenna. Basically that gives the sniffer a bigger nose.
3:12
Speaker 5: So when these bluetooth low energy signals only read.
3:20
Speaker 1: Just a trial lawyer. Fattis and I are just trial lawyer.
3:25
Speaker 1: Doctor Jerry Lynn Utter is with us.
3:28
Speaker 2: She's a SHRINKO.
3:30
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan is a blood expert, death investigator, and Dave
3:34
Speaker 1: Max reporter. You need to slow down so us Mere
3:37
Speaker 1: mortals can understand.
3:39
Speaker 6: What you just said.
3:40
Speaker 2: Okay, if you don't mind start over.
3:44
Speaker 7: Yes.
3:44
Speaker 5: So in a nutshell, we've learned in the last day
3:47
Speaker 5: or two from Dave Kennedy on X Cybersecurity Expert, that
3:54
Speaker 5: he's created the ability to amplify with an antenna that
3:59
Speaker 5: blue sniffer. So when the range would typically be twenty
4:04
Speaker 5: five to thirty feet for Nancy's pacemaker, he's gotten that
4:09
Speaker 5: knows to be bigger on the sniffer where it's sniffing
4:13
Speaker 5: these signals up to eight hundred feet, which obviously makes
4:17
Speaker 5: the ability for this search to happen much greater. In essence,
4:22
Speaker 5: what this technology, the advancements that's happened inside of this
4:27
Speaker 5: case that we've learned about is they're able to amplify
4:32
Speaker 5: that signal. Okay, so with an antenna they're able to
4:35
Speaker 5: look farther away. So typically these ble devices like Nancy's
4:41
Speaker 5: pacemaker would only be communicating at twenty five to thirty feet.
4:46
Speaker 5: Now law enforcement has a range of more like six
4:50
Speaker 5: to eight hundred feet, so that's going to make the
4:52
Speaker 5: possibility of locating Nancy much fits.
4:56
Speaker 1: Look at your screen right there, I think the guy,
5:00
Speaker 1: by the way, this is from our friends at Fox
5:01
Speaker 1: News who shared this with us. If I could see
5:04
Speaker 1: that again, please, it looked to me like he was
5:09
Speaker 1: holding it in his lap. I was trying to see
5:13
Speaker 1: where it is attached to the helicopter. It looks to
5:16
Speaker 1: me like he's holding it. Would that make sense, Fitzgibbons.
5:22
Speaker 5: I believe that they had it strapped onto one of
5:24
Speaker 5: the skids on that helicopter, and he may be holding
5:27
Speaker 5: a device that's helping to see the location of these pings,
5:34
Speaker 5: these signals that they're getting. But I'm pretty certain that
5:38
Speaker 5: they had a fixed it.
5:40
Speaker 2: Let's see the video again and let's see if he's right.
5:42
Speaker 2: I bet he is.
5:43
Speaker 1: That it's attached to one of the skids. Guys, our
5:48
Speaker 1: friends from Fox News shared this with us. We're looking
5:52
Speaker 1: for the blue fly technology, and yeah, I think you're right. Fits,
5:58
Speaker 1: I think you're absolutely correct. So let's see what it
6:03
Speaker 1: actually looks like. What the device looks like now, what
6:07
Speaker 1: you're seeing right now. We believe drone drones were then used.
6:15
Speaker 1: Drones were used, it's my understanding, Dave matt Es. No,
6:19
Speaker 1: was the blue Flight then attached to drones so they
6:23
Speaker 1: could get lower to the ground.
6:26
Speaker 4: Yeah, at first they were using helicopters playing grid patterns.
6:29
Speaker 6: Then they switched to drones after four days.
6:32
Speaker 1: Okay, back to Brian Fitzgibbons. So wow, Dave, they've been
6:36
Speaker 1: doing this now for at least five days. Okay, Brian,
6:41
Speaker 1: if you could very slowly educate us on the blue
6:45
Speaker 1: fly technology again, it's been around for a while, but
6:49
Speaker 1: you don't hear it openly discussed. The FBI had to
6:52
Speaker 1: bring this in. I do not think local law enforcement,
6:55
Speaker 1: nano's had it. So again, very slowly for us, many
6:59
Speaker 1: people just learning about it.
7:02
Speaker 2: Tell me again.
7:04
Speaker 5: Yeah, so this technology began as a pretty high end
7:08
Speaker 5: defense technology, and then they found with it a search
7:13
Speaker 5: and rescue application quite some time ago, and then they
7:17
Speaker 5: began to use it in search and rescue scenarios missing hikers, skiers,
7:22
Speaker 5: things like that that they believed had devices.
7:25
Speaker 2: It started how it started?
7:27
Speaker 5: How so this was originally a cyber security tech used
7:33
Speaker 5: in the defense industry to find and locate any surreptitious
7:38
Speaker 5: devices that were emitting radio frequencies in or near such
7:43
Speaker 5: as what this would be, you know, foreign national governments
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Speaker 5: trying to listen in or capture information in and around
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Speaker 5: Department of Defense or intelligence facilities, and this tech and
8:00
Speaker 5: sniff that.
8:01
Speaker 1: Them up, put them up. I need to look at
8:03
Speaker 1: you while you're saying this. Okay, I knew about bluefly,
8:06
Speaker 1: but I didn't know that. Okay, it started with cybersecurity
8:11
Speaker 1: tech used in the defense industry to find surreptitious devices
8:17
Speaker 1: such as those used by foreign national governments trying to
8:21
Speaker 1: listen in.
8:22
Speaker 2: Is that what you just said.
8:24
Speaker 5: Yes, So there could be any number of things that
8:28
Speaker 5: these devices that are not you know, allowed to be
8:33
Speaker 5: there could be doing, and that that technology they found
8:38
Speaker 5: a greater application for or new application for it in
8:42
Speaker 5: the search and rescue space that they could apply that
8:45
Speaker 5: that same methodology in the same use case to go
8:48
Speaker 5: out and find devices associated with missing persons. And that's
8:53
Speaker 5: where you've seen this tech implemented kind of in the mainstream,
8:59
Speaker 5: is in search and applications such as you know, you
9:05
Speaker 5: have the missing hiker, missing skier, missing persons that have
9:10
Speaker 5: devices on them.
9:11
Speaker 7: This is not the first time that this has been used.
9:14
Speaker 5: I think what's what's novel here is, you know what
9:19
Speaker 5: I had spoken about that cybersecurity expert Dave Kennedy has
9:24
Speaker 5: found is the ability to amplify that, to increase the range.
9:28
Speaker 5: That's the that's the breakthrough here with Nancy's case.
9:33
Speaker 1: What kind of devices would a hiker or a ski
9:37
Speaker 1: er have on them that the blue fly could pick up?
9:41
Speaker 5: So this could be anything like an air tag, bluetooth, headphones,
9:47
Speaker 5: any type of hearing aid, pacemaker, or cell phone certainly you.
9:53
Speaker 7: Know would if the battery life were still on.
9:56
Speaker 5: It's any type of device on the Grifferee that's connecting,
10:02
Speaker 5: you know, with a computer, with medical device, anything like that.
10:06
Speaker 1: Wow, that was a lot of information.
10:17
Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
10:24
Speaker 1: Guys Brian Fitzgibbons joining us Director Operations USPA Nationwide Security. Now,
10:31
Speaker 1: explain to me if the blue fly can work as
10:36
Speaker 1: I'm learning now over to football fields in length, why
10:42
Speaker 1: did they decide to put it on a drone and
10:45
Speaker 1: fly it low to the ground just better chances of
10:50
Speaker 1: picking something up.
10:52
Speaker 5: Yeah, and they can amplify the search right there. Are
10:55
Speaker 5: only so many helicopters available. You know, you obviously have
11:00
Speaker 5: fuel costs and things like that. Maintenance that has to happen.
11:04
Speaker 7: So putting it.
11:05
Speaker 5: Up on drones is going to magnify the number of
11:09
Speaker 5: beacons on that network looking for Nancy's pacemaker.
11:13
Speaker 7: One thing I will mention is.
11:15
Speaker 5: That they're able to zero in on Nancy's pacemaker, so
11:22
Speaker 5: they're able to basically filter that search to only be
11:28
Speaker 5: looking for this device.
11:29
Speaker 7: So it's going to be pretty efficient.
11:31
Speaker 5: The challenge that they're going to face is this pacemaker
11:35
Speaker 5: is likely only communicating out a signal every three to
11:38
Speaker 5: four minutes, so they have to catch it at the
11:42
Speaker 5: right time. This is not going to be as basic
11:44
Speaker 5: as flying over all of Tucson.
11:47
Speaker 7: There's going to be some luck involved here.
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Speaker 1: Explain what you're saying about her pacemaker emitting signals every
11:55
Speaker 1: three to four minutes.
11:56
Speaker 2: I thought it was constant.
11:59
Speaker 5: Yeah, So that device is going to be you know,
12:02
Speaker 5: with a pacemaker, it's connected to a phone, right and
12:06
Speaker 5: at every three or four minutes it's sending that signal
12:09
Speaker 5: and sharing information packets about you know, the heart health
12:13
Speaker 5: or whatever's going on with the pacemaker. That's not happening
12:17
Speaker 5: every second, all the time. That's happening on a routine right,
12:21
Speaker 5: And I believe with this device. It's been reported that
12:24
Speaker 5: this device would hurt the type that she has would
12:27
Speaker 5: be reporting every three to four minutes, So it's not
12:30
Speaker 5: a it's not a constant beacon. It's happening on a
12:34
Speaker 5: regimen of three to four minutes.
12:37
Speaker 1: Well, okay, I'm curious as to what area they're covering with.
12:44
Speaker 2: The drones and the blue fly.
12:47
Speaker 1: Is there anything else, Brian, that you can tell us
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Speaker 1: about this device?
12:53
Speaker 5: No, I think I think we've covered it here that
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Speaker 5: you know, our hope is that with this amplification possibility
13:02
Speaker 5: to extend the range of the sniffer, that investigators may
13:07
Speaker 5: have some good success in locating Nancy.
13:11
Speaker 2: Wow.
13:12
Speaker 1: Okay, and you told me that it goes to it
13:15
Speaker 1: can now reach two football fields or over to football fields.
13:20
Speaker 7: Yeah.
13:21
Speaker 5: The numbers that I've seen reported by Dave Kennedy, who's
13:24
Speaker 5: been pretty public about this, is that it's up to
13:26
Speaker 5: eight hundred feet, so you know that would be over
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Speaker 5: two football fields.
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Speaker 1: To Eric Fattus joining us, the founder of the law
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Speaker 1: offices of Eric Fattus, Eric, this is the type of
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Speaker 1: technology that would be challenged in court, not because it's wrong,
13:47
Speaker 1: not because it doesn't work very simply the same way
13:50
Speaker 1: fingerprints were once challenged in court, the way DNA was
13:54
Speaker 1: challenged in court, the way familial DNA was challenged in court.
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Speaker 1: Explain there's going to be a challenge, is going to
14:01
Speaker 1: They'll lose, of course, but it will be a big hurdle.
14:05
Speaker 2: Explain why it will certainly be a challenge.
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Speaker 8: So the course like science that has been generally accepted,
14:12
Speaker 8: that that you know, has widespread accept in scientific consensus,
14:16
Speaker 8: and we have new technology. There just hasn't been enough
14:19
Speaker 8: time for the scientific community to reach that position. And
14:23
Speaker 8: so certainly what defense would do in court is say, hey,
14:27
Speaker 8: the principles behind this are not reasonably reliable. They have
14:30
Speaker 8: not been tested enough for this to be admitted into
14:33
Speaker 8: evidence at what could be a very high profile criminal drive.
14:37
Speaker 1: Well, of course, Eric, it has been tested in the
14:40
Speaker 1: military sector. I mean, Brian has givens how long has
14:43
Speaker 1: blue flag been used in the military sector anyway.
14:47
Speaker 5: That's not clear, but I would say that this type
14:51
Speaker 5: of signals intelligence has been used for quite some time.
14:56
Speaker 5: You know, the military and intelligence apparatus certainly been concerned
15:01
Speaker 5: for you know, more than a couple of decades on
15:04
Speaker 5: finding devices that shouldn't be in and around their facilities.
15:10
Speaker 2: So fat us.
15:10
Speaker 1: Even though this type of technology has been around, as
15:13
Speaker 1: he says, for about two decades that we know of
15:16
Speaker 1: what you're referring to, I believe is acceptance in court
15:21
Speaker 1: and acceptance by appellate courts.
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Speaker 2: Like DNA was accepted.
15:25
Speaker 1: Yes, DNA had been used since in war I guess,
15:30
Speaker 1: going back all the way to at least the Korean War,
15:33
Speaker 1: and you get an immediate field test answer on DNA
15:37
Speaker 1: that said it wasn't accepted in criminal trials until many, many.
15:43
Speaker 2: More years later.
15:44
Speaker 1: So you've got to have it accepted in court. It
15:47
Speaker 1: may be a landmark case. For all we know, if
15:50
Speaker 1: this ever goes to trial allowing bluefly signal sniffer technology
15:54
Speaker 1: in is that it will get in.
15:57
Speaker 2: There's no question about it.
15:58
Speaker 1: You'll bring in a couple of secret service guys and
16:00
Speaker 1: they'll explain it to the court and it will come in.
16:03
Speaker 2: It's just an evidentiary hurdle you have to go through.
16:08
Speaker 1: I want to go back to what's happening now in
16:11
Speaker 1: the Nancy Guthrie search. It's amazing to me absolutely amazing
16:17
Speaker 1: to me. To Joseph Scott Morgan joining us in addition
16:20
Speaker 1: to Dave matt from Crime Stories and Eric Fattis trial lawyer.
16:25
Speaker 1: Josecott Morgan is professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University
16:29
Speaker 1: that has an incredible criminal evidentiary program. He is a
16:34
Speaker 1: death investigator with over ten thousand death scene investigations under
16:39
Speaker 1: his belt.
16:40
Speaker 2: He's the author of Blood Beneath.
16:41
Speaker 1: My Feet on Amazon, and he's the star of a
16:44
Speaker 1: Hitting You podcast, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. Scott,
16:48
Speaker 1: look at this guy on the front porch.
16:51
Speaker 2: For the five millionth time.
16:52
Speaker 1: I just keep looking at it and looking at it
16:54
Speaker 1: and slowing it and stopping it and looking at it.
16:57
Speaker 1: How in the hay has this guy and his cronies,
17:01
Speaker 1: Let's see, the video managed.
17:04
Speaker 2: To outsmart the Feds.
17:07
Speaker 1: Granted Nanos was a speed bump to the FEDS getting involved,
17:13
Speaker 1: although he denies it. But that said, I don't know
17:16
Speaker 1: how this guy, and you know, water seeks his own level.
17:20
Speaker 1: Birds of a feather all that you know, his cronies
17:23
Speaker 1: are no different than him. Although somebody, if that ransom
17:27
Speaker 1: note is connected to him.
17:28
Speaker 2: Does have a little bit of smarts.
17:30
Speaker 1: How the hey has this guy managed to outsmart a
17:35
Speaker 1: fleet of law enforcement I don't get it, Joe Scott.
17:37
Speaker 2: Is it just the perfect storm aligning?
17:40
Speaker 9: Yeah? I think so, That's my thought at least. But
17:43
Speaker 9: you know, just looking at these images alone Nancy him
17:47
Speaker 9: walking up onto the portico there, up to the patio
17:51
Speaker 9: or the exterior there, there's an entire profile that can
17:54
Speaker 9: be built out of this guy simply based on clothing alone.
17:58
Speaker 9: We do know that he likes to, for instance, shop
18:01
Speaker 9: at Walmart. That Ozark backpack is famously Ozark products are
18:06
Speaker 9: sold there. It's also been alluded to that this pistol
18:10
Speaker 9: holster that he's carrying this is not something that those
18:13
Speaker 9: of us that have been in law enforcement are that
18:16
Speaker 9: are as we say, under arms at any moment in time.
18:19
Speaker 9: This is not something I'm going to go out and
18:21
Speaker 9: pick up in order to carry my own weapon. This
18:24
Speaker 9: is something to be bought off the shelf there. I
18:27
Speaker 9: think there's connectivity in that space. Not to mention, the
18:31
Speaker 9: jacket that he's wearing is very specific. These are some
18:34
Speaker 9: of the things that we look for as practitioners. Can't
18:38
Speaker 9: speak to the trousers that mask that he's wearing. Oh
18:43
Speaker 9: my lord, you know, it's got very specific features relative
18:48
Speaker 9: to that as well. I'm reminded of case up in
18:51
Speaker 9: Ohio that I covered a few years ago, the infamous
18:54
Speaker 9: piked and massacre, where the mother of the family facilitated
18:59
Speaker 9: eight homicide in one night. The mother that helped facilitate
19:03
Speaker 9: this case she went to Walmart specifically and bought shoes
19:08
Speaker 9: for her family to wear and perpetrate these crimes. So
19:12
Speaker 9: she was specific in her intent relative to acquire garments.
19:16
Speaker 9: I think that they're building that out. The FBI has
19:18
Speaker 9: an incredible database when it comes to clothing alone. I
19:22
Speaker 9: think people would be shocked at what they know about this.
19:26
Speaker 9: I think that there's a lot of stuff going on
19:28
Speaker 9: in the background. If you take a look at kind
19:30
Speaker 9: of the biometric features of this guy, I think one
19:33
Speaker 9: of the interesting things I'm sure that the folks at
19:36
Speaker 9: Langley are looking at here or Quantico, is that they're
19:41
Speaker 9: going to be doing a gate analysis on this guy
19:44
Speaker 9: as well. He looks like he lists to one way.
19:46
Speaker 9: His legs appear at least to be slightly bowed, his
19:50
Speaker 9: feet supinnate, which means he walks on the edges of
19:53
Speaker 9: the outer edges of his feet. His stride is very specific,
19:57
Speaker 9: and you know right there he's kind of hunched up.
20:00
Speaker 9: We're looking for things, I think to cover up because
20:02
Speaker 9: he has an awareness of this ness camera. I don't
20:06
Speaker 9: think he had it previously. You think he's surprised when
20:08
Speaker 9: he sees it. But there's any number of things that
20:11
Speaker 9: can be built out with this alone. And Nancy, we
20:14
Speaker 9: haven't even touched on DNA at this point.
20:17
Speaker 2: Hey, I want to follow up on what you said.
20:18
Speaker 1: You stated that there was a definite profile of the
20:21
Speaker 1: based on his clothing alone. Yeah, within oh gosh, an
20:26
Speaker 1: hour or an hour that this video came out, our
20:32
Speaker 1: staff at Crime Stories Angelica specifically, and I believe Jessica
20:37
Speaker 1: as well had gone online and sleuthed and realized that
20:42
Speaker 1: not only did the backpack, the Ozart backpack come from Walmart,
20:48
Speaker 1: the similar jacket is from Walmart, the sche mask similar
20:53
Speaker 1: from Walmart.
20:56
Speaker 6: And you know that.
20:58
Speaker 1: They also sell gloves of this nature at Walmart, and specifically,
21:06
Speaker 1: burner phones are sold at Walmart.
21:10
Speaker 2: Let me see Scott.
21:11
Speaker 1: Scott, the first guy that was caught and released Plazuela.
21:18
Speaker 2: He was stopped.
21:19
Speaker 1: Now they're not saying this, but obviously he will stopped
21:22
Speaker 1: because his cell phone had registered in that neighborhood many
21:25
Speaker 1: many times, and maybe right around Nancy Guthrie's home. Then
21:29
Speaker 1: this past weekend, just a few nights ago, more people
21:33
Speaker 1: about the two mile range were roused in the middle
21:35
Speaker 1: of the night, detained home, searched, catch and release. Again
21:41
Speaker 1: why there had to be their cell phone activity in
21:45
Speaker 1: and around the neighborhood at the time of the break in.
21:49
Speaker 2: So that's what they're doing.
21:52
Speaker 1: They're looking at cell phone data in the neighborhood and
21:55
Speaker 1: it's a difficult thing to do. It requires a team
21:57
Speaker 1: of people to pull all the data. And this probably
22:00
Speaker 1: two people pulling, two people analyzing a couple in Quantico
22:03
Speaker 1: and a couple on the ground.
22:05
Speaker 2: But that said phones, if it's.
22:10
Speaker 1: A burner phone, the purp is using not nearly as
22:14
Speaker 1: easy to find. This is my dream, okay, my sweet dream,
22:21
Speaker 1: is that all of these items were bought at the
22:23
Speaker 1: same time, so they will be on the same receipt.
22:27
Speaker 2: Now, if that is not a jackpot, I don't know
22:31
Speaker 2: what is.
22:31
Speaker 1: But if many of these items originated at Walmart, go ahead, jump.
22:37
Speaker 9: In please CCTV Walmart. That's how that's how like the
22:43
Speaker 9: case I cited out of Ohio that you can see
22:46
Speaker 9: the mother purchasing these items there.
22:50
Speaker 2: And so why was she buying footwear to commit murder.
22:55
Speaker 9: So that there could not be tie backs relative to
22:58
Speaker 9: footprints that are left behind and blood? This was a
23:01
Speaker 9: slaughter that I covered. So if you have new shoes,
23:05
Speaker 9: remember we talked about this guy's walk just a second ago,
23:07
Speaker 9: pronate versus superinnate and that sort of thing.
23:10
Speaker 2: What kind of shoes did she buy for a slaughter?
23:13
Speaker 9: Yeah, they were just off the rack if I remember correctly, black,
23:17
Speaker 9: low end lace up athletic shoes. And so what happens
23:22
Speaker 9: is is that if you and I, well, we're not
23:25
Speaker 9: a good comparison. If Dave and I went out and
23:27
Speaker 9: purchased a pair of shoes at Walmart, all right, the
23:30
Speaker 9: same identical pair, just in an hour or so, just
23:34
Speaker 9: wearing them, if we're walking in the same space, you
23:36
Speaker 9: wouldn't pick up on much of a wear pattern. If
23:39
Speaker 9: you wear shoes over a protracted period of time, even
23:42
Speaker 9: though they're the same brand, daves are going to look
23:44
Speaker 9: different from mine, say a week out, two weeks out.
23:48
Speaker 9: And because the way you know, the Good Lord made
23:51
Speaker 9: us and the way we take our strides. So in
23:54
Speaker 9: that particular case, those purchase of the purchases of those shoes,
23:58
Speaker 9: actually they slipped them on before they went into the residents, Okay,
24:04
Speaker 9: so that you couldn't pick up on specific forensic points
24:08
Speaker 9: of identification. Now you know, I don't know. I don't
24:12
Speaker 9: know anything about this guy's footwear. Don't misconstrue what I'm saying.
24:15
Speaker 9: I have no idea, but I can tell you this
24:18
Speaker 9: dollars of donuts are They're trying to track down the
24:21
Speaker 9: shoes as well to see if there's anything there. I
24:24
Speaker 9: don't know what was in the house. I don't know
24:26
Speaker 9: if he tracked through. I could see them doing what
24:30
Speaker 9: are called mylar lifts of dust off of the floor.
24:34
Speaker 9: It's a magnetic lift that we do at crime scenes
24:37
Speaker 9: where you can actually get a foot footprint pattern off
24:41
Speaker 9: of this. They would have been searching for that, hopefully
24:44
Speaker 9: in the event that they didn't go in and really
24:47
Speaker 9: nearly screw up anything in there when they're walking through
24:49
Speaker 9: the house. Because you know, initially when you work a
24:53
Speaker 9: so called kissing, kidnapping or missing person's case, it's for
24:59
Speaker 9: neetic you walk in, you not treating it necessarily like
25:01
Speaker 9: a crime scene. Like we would with a homicide scene.
25:04
Speaker 9: You're going closet to closet, you're clearing the house, you're
25:07
Speaker 9: looking through you're trying to look under their beds, all
25:09
Speaker 9: that sort of stuff, and just trying to assess the
25:13
Speaker 9: scene to see if you can find her anywhere in there.
25:16
Speaker 9: Then you have to back out at that point in
25:18
Speaker 9: time and lock it down again. I know I'm preaching
25:21
Speaker 9: the choir here. Another problem that I have is the
25:25
Speaker 9: fact that I didn't lock it down. They keep it
25:28
Speaker 9: locked down. You see what I'm saying, And that's problematic
25:31
Speaker 9: for me.
25:32
Speaker 3: I wanted to come on and it's been two weeks
25:38
Speaker 3: since our mom was taken, and I just wanted to
25:44
Speaker 3: come on and say that we still have hope and
25:54
Speaker 3: we still.
25:54
Speaker 1: Believe Savannah Guthrie beaten down, exhausted, begging.
26:03
Speaker 2: Them it's not too late to do the right thing.
26:09
Speaker 2: What more do we know about the search for Nancy Guthrie?
26:12
Speaker 2: Is she alive? What is she enduring? How is she living?
26:18
Speaker 1: All these thoughts must be colliding in the brains of
26:21
Speaker 1: her three children every minute of every day. Straight out
26:26
Speaker 1: to an all star panel, making sense of what we know?
26:29
Speaker 1: I want to talk about the other developments. First of all,
26:33
Speaker 1: Dave mac I understand that the FBI is going from
26:37
Speaker 1: gun store to gun store to gun store. They were
26:40
Speaker 1: doing it last night and they're doing it tonight, and
26:43
Speaker 1: they're showing a list of about forty people we've been
26:47
Speaker 1: told in forty photos, corresponding photos and asking questions of
26:51
Speaker 1: the gun shop owners.
26:53
Speaker 2: What do you know?
26:55
Speaker 4: That's what we're finding out is they've got a list
26:57
Speaker 4: of forty people with pictures and they're just canvassing. They're
27:00
Speaker 4: going door to door to every gun store in the area,
27:03
Speaker 4: and they're showing the pictures, they're showing the names.
27:06
Speaker 6: Do you know this person? That's part and then.
27:08
Speaker 4: The second part is have you guys sold anything like
27:12
Speaker 4: this to this individual?
27:14
Speaker 6: Now? Showing up with forty people, that's a lot.
27:16
Speaker 4: However, you know, gun store owners tend to deal a
27:19
Speaker 4: lot with the same people. Gun people you know visit
27:23
Speaker 4: gun stores, so this might actually stick out because what
27:27
Speaker 4: we're seeing, especially with the holster not being a high
27:31
Speaker 4: quality holster, the individual might be somebody that stood out
27:36
Speaker 4: to one of these shop owners. So they've got pictures,
27:39
Speaker 4: they've gotten names. You know, stores can run names. Gun
27:44
Speaker 4: shops have more control than most on when they sell products,
27:47
Speaker 4: you know, getting information from the buyer. So they've got
27:50
Speaker 4: an opportunity to actually narrow down that list. Forty people,
27:54
Speaker 4: forty names. That's a lot to start with, but you
27:57
Speaker 4: can narrow it down fairly quickly.
28:00
Speaker 1: Doctor Jerlyne Utter, clinical psychologists specializing in psychological evaluations of
28:07
Speaker 1: those in the criminal justice system.
28:09
Speaker 2: Author of Mainlining Philly and More.
28:13
Speaker 1: Producer of Utter Nonsense, A dot of Exploration of addiction.
28:18
Speaker 2: Doctor Jerlyn Utter, thank you for being with us.
28:21
Speaker 1: I believe it would stand out even more so in
28:23
Speaker 1: a gunshop owner's mind if the perp came in with
28:29
Speaker 1: another person for some reason, that sticks in your mind
28:33
Speaker 1: more than just a single customer. Gunshop owners are very,
28:40
Speaker 1: very wary and the places are okay. Also, don't show
28:44
Speaker 1: her snack scratching her nose, okay, if you can help it,
28:50
Speaker 1: Doctor Jerlyn Utter, what is a way to jog the
28:54
Speaker 1: memories of the gun store owners?
28:58
Speaker 10: I think to your point, Nancy, the fact when when
29:00
Speaker 10: folks come in together, that is something that tends to
29:04
Speaker 10: stick in gun owner's name in their brains. Because a
29:07
Speaker 10: lot of the times there's something called a straw purchase.
29:10
Speaker 10: So when people are trying to come in and they
29:13
Speaker 10: have somebody with a clean record, and they bring the
29:16
Speaker 10: person that's actually going to purchase the gun or that
29:20
Speaker 10: wants the gun. Seeing people together usually raises a red
29:25
Speaker 10: flag because you're like, why are there two people here?
29:27
Speaker 10: You know, you're not somebody that may be you know,
29:30
Speaker 10: equipped or trained, or know what it is that you
29:32
Speaker 10: want or what you're buying, So sometimes you'll bring along
29:34
Speaker 10: someone else. So I think that that is something that
29:37
Speaker 10: tends to stick in their minds just due to something
29:38
Speaker 10: called a straw purchase and an illegal gun purchase, specifically
29:43
Speaker 10: when you bring someone in that can't purchase the gun
29:46
Speaker 10: because they have a criminal record, and the person standing
29:49
Speaker 10: before the shop owner is buying it with the intent
29:53
Speaker 10: of giving it to someone else. So a lot of
29:55
Speaker 10: the times when you see partners or when you see
29:57
Speaker 10: two people together, that is something that that does generally
30:01
Speaker 10: raise a red flag because they want to make sure
30:03
Speaker 10: who they're selling equipment or who they're selling a gun
30:06
Speaker 10: to is going to that individual and not perhaps the
30:09
Speaker 10: person that's accompanying that individual to the store. So that's
30:12
Speaker 10: definitely something they are mindful.
30:14
Speaker 1: Love Dotter Jerlen, are you saying straw as in, hey,
30:18
Speaker 1: straw purchase.
30:21
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's that.
30:23
Speaker 10: So a straw purchase is so let's just say I
30:26
Speaker 10: have a criminal record, Nancy, and I have a felony record,
30:29
Speaker 10: and I am not allowed to purchase a gun. So
30:32
Speaker 10: what I will do is I will bring someone a
30:35
Speaker 10: friend or get in touch with someone who has a
30:37
Speaker 10: clean record. And that record's criminal as well as a
30:41
Speaker 10: psychiatric record. You can't have any what we call involuntary
30:44
Speaker 10: psychiatric commitments and get and purchase a gun. So I
30:47
Speaker 10: will bring that person with me. And even though I
30:51
Speaker 10: am the person who wants the gun, I can't purchase
30:53
Speaker 10: it because I'm a felon, I'm a convicted felon, or
30:55
Speaker 10: I have serious psychiatric issues. So I accompany that individual
31:00
Speaker 10: and I go into that store with them, and the
31:02
Speaker 10: person with the clean record or the person that doesn't
31:04
Speaker 10: have a criminal record, is the one that is facing
31:07
Speaker 10: the gun store owner, and I'm with them saying, hey,
31:10
Speaker 10: I want that gun or I want that but really,
31:13
Speaker 10: I can't be the one to communicate or step up
31:16
Speaker 10: to the gun owner, to the gun shop owner. I
31:18
Speaker 10: have to be the one in the background, even though
31:20
Speaker 10: it's for me. So a straw purchase is essentially an
31:23
Speaker 10: illegal purchase where you bring somebody else into the gun
31:26
Speaker 10: shop that does not have the criminal record. They are
31:29
Speaker 10: the one who has you know, who purchases the gun,
31:32
Speaker 10: it's in their name. Essentially, when they leave the gun store,
31:35
Speaker 10: they turn around and they give it to their buddy
31:37
Speaker 10: or the person who accompanied them, because that's the person
31:40
Speaker 10: who really, you know, is going to be utilizing the gun.
31:44
Speaker 2: Wow rive as gibbons.
31:45
Speaker 1: That would certainly raise the suspicions of the gun store
31:49
Speaker 1: owner when you're doing a straw purchase, she described it.
31:53
Speaker 2: What do you make of that?
31:55
Speaker 1: And how can we get the gun owner's memory The
31:58
Speaker 1: gun store owner's memory jogged?
32:02
Speaker 7: No, Doctor Cherry, Lyn's absolutely right.
32:04
Speaker 5: You know, this could very well be a straw purchase,
32:07
Speaker 5: and in this case, the actual perpetrator may have not
32:11
Speaker 5: even gone into the store. We see that quite often.
32:16
Speaker 5: How do we get these gun owners to figure it out?
32:19
Speaker 7: Well?
32:19
Speaker 5: Right now, as of yesterday, federal agents were canvassing the
32:25
Speaker 5: greater Tucson area with forty photos showing these photos and
32:30
Speaker 5: names to gun store owners to do just that, to
32:34
Speaker 5: see if they recognized any of these individuals having entered
32:37
Speaker 5: that business.
32:40
Speaker 1: And the fact of the matter, Brian is that gun
32:43
Speaker 1: stores are like Vegas. They are covered in surveillance video.
32:50
Speaker 2: So that's good.
32:51
Speaker 5: Absolutely, Yeah, there's no way that you would not that
32:57
Speaker 5: you could escape having some kind of record of that purchase.
33:01
Speaker 1: Dave Mac, do you have to present a fingerprint in Arizona.
33:05
Speaker 2: To buy a gun at a gun store?
33:06
Speaker 1: And that's assuming he got a gun at a gun
33:09
Speaker 1: store as opposed to a gun show or you know, bootleg, Go.
33:14
Speaker 6: Ahead, No, you don't have to.
33:17
Speaker 4: They do not require a fingerprint, and you don't have
33:20
Speaker 4: to have like a separate photo taken. You have to
33:23
Speaker 4: present a government issued photo ID, such as an Arizona
33:29
Speaker 4: driver's license, that would be sufficient in purchasing a web
33:32
Speaker 4: a gun from a gun store, but no fingerprint is required.
33:37
Speaker 1: One thing I do know, back to what you were saying,
33:39
Speaker 1: Joe Scott, is you can't get everything at Walmart. They
33:43
Speaker 1: don't sell handguns, so he would have had to go
33:46
Speaker 1: somewhere else. But to go to a regular gun store,
33:49
Speaker 1: I'm not seeing it. Maybe a gun show where the
33:53
Speaker 1: requirements were more let's just say relaxed, or a bootleg
33:58
Speaker 1: stolen you know, it could be from anywhere.
34:02
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, I suppose that it could be, or you know,
34:05
Speaker 9: there are cases out there where you have people that
34:07
Speaker 9: are highly organized as criminals they share I don't know
34:10
Speaker 9: if have you heard of people sharing weapons, because this
34:13
Speaker 9: does happen. I've worked cases involving this where you have
34:17
Speaker 9: individuals that will come to a concentric area and weapons
34:21
Speaker 9: will be shared or literally rented. We actually had cases
34:24
Speaker 9: in Atlanta involving involving this where you had one weapon
34:28
Speaker 9: that was connected to multiple primes that were committed by
34:32
Speaker 9: in completely individual, completely different individuals. So that can happens.
34:38
Speaker 9: It's a word. The world, the underworld particularly is very
34:41
Speaker 9: dynamic and how you can get your hands onto a
34:45
Speaker 9: weapon and listen, going back, I got to tell you, Nancy,
34:51
Speaker 9: looking at presentation with this weapon, there's been a lot
34:54
Speaker 9: of haymade over the idea that this guy is so
34:57
Speaker 9: very amateurish. One of the things that really strikes me
35:01
Speaker 9: about this and that I'm glad they're showing that image.
35:04
Speaker 9: No one in their right mind would walk around displaying
35:08
Speaker 9: a weapon like that that has a background and caring
35:11
Speaker 9: concealed all right, I think, and I don't want to
35:15
Speaker 9: get into the docks area here, but I think that
35:17
Speaker 9: that is an intimidation factor. You show up, you have
35:21
Speaker 9: that weapon, that's where it can actually be seen, and
35:24
Speaker 9: you can present with it. And lord knows this, it's
35:28
Speaker 9: really dark, but you know she comes to that door
35:31
Speaker 9: and he presents with that weapon. Even if he doesn't
35:33
Speaker 9: draw it out of the holster, she can visualize it,
35:36
Speaker 9: particularly if that light goes on in the porch. So
35:39
Speaker 9: I think it's positioned that way so that he can
35:41
Speaker 9: actually intimidate somebody with it, as opposed to concealing it
35:45
Speaker 9: having it under that rather robust clothing he's got there.
35:50
Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie, Missing Day seventeen. How in the hay has
35:54
Speaker 1: this guy and his cohorts managed to outsmart the Feds?
35:59
Speaker 2: Are they getting close? Word is yes, but is that real?
36:05
Speaker 2: Straight back out to Dave Mac joining us. Dave Mac.
36:08
Speaker 2: We keep hearing in the headlines that will there be
36:12
Speaker 2: a DNA match to what? From what?
36:15
Speaker 9: To what?
36:16
Speaker 1: I assume they're talking about the one glove, although now
36:19
Speaker 1: there are reports that a second matching glove has been
36:22
Speaker 1: found under a bridge.
36:23
Speaker 2: I got to confirm that.
36:24
Speaker 1: I don't know that yet, but let's assume they're talking
36:28
Speaker 1: about the one glove that's seemingly of the sixteen.
36:32
Speaker 2: What a messed up crime scene.
36:35
Speaker 1: That said, the one glove that seemingly matches the gloves
36:39
Speaker 1: the Purp is wearing on the front porch, match it
36:42
Speaker 1: to what DNA found in the home. I pray to
36:48
Speaker 1: codis to.
36:49
Speaker 6: What yeah, to the DNA found in the home.
36:53
Speaker 4: Granted, you know a coda's match only works if the
36:56
Speaker 4: Purp is in the system. So what they really want
36:59
Speaker 4: to Donancy is they want to match up the DNA
37:02
Speaker 4: on the glove found about a mile and a half
37:04
Speaker 4: from Nancy Guthrie's home to whatever DNA they have found
37:08
Speaker 4: inside the home. We know it's unrelated to anyone in
37:12
Speaker 4: the family that law enforcement found DNA in the home.
37:16
Speaker 4: So matching up that DNA inside the Guthrie home to
37:20
Speaker 4: the glove found a mile and a half from the
37:22
Speaker 4: Guthrie home, that's your match.
37:24
Speaker 6: That's what they're looking for.
37:25
Speaker 2: Guys.
37:25
Speaker 1: Here is a video released by Savannah that Savannah and
37:31
Speaker 1: her sister and with their mom many many years ago,
37:36
Speaker 1: and that is underscoring emphasizing that Nancy Guthrie is loved
37:43
Speaker 1: and beloved and has a family, grandchildren, and I can
37:46
Speaker 1: only pray that the Purps are watching this And I
37:51
Speaker 1: say purp because I find it really hard to believe
37:54
Speaker 1: that the ding dong on the front porch is the
37:56
Speaker 1: same one that wrote the ransom notes if they are connected.
38:00
Speaker 1: I also even if they're not connected, I find it
38:03
Speaker 1: hard to believe that the ding dong on the front
38:04
Speaker 1: porch has managed to elude law enforcement for this long. Okay,
38:09
Speaker 1: let's talk about d N A deoxaribo nucleic acid. As
38:15
Speaker 1: doctor Jerlyn Utter just reminded us in the break Joe
38:20
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, CODIS is not the only way to go.
38:25
Speaker 1: The combined DNA like really warehouse is the DNA data bank.
38:33
Speaker 1: And if you've got a record, as they fell, and
38:36
Speaker 1: in some of the states of misdemeanors you've given your DNA,
38:38
Speaker 1: there's DNA there from crime scenes, from unsolved crime scenes
38:43
Speaker 1: and more.
38:45
Speaker 2: But what about if you have a relative in CODIS?
38:48
Speaker 9: That would work too, Yeah, yeah, it certainly would. And
38:52
Speaker 9: sometimes you know, these familiar circles, uh you know, will
38:57
Speaker 9: have deposition it scene. But here's here's some interesting statistics
39:01
Speaker 9: with CODIS itself, and I'm talking very broadly here. Across
39:05
Speaker 9: the US, there's roughly nineteen million offender profiles in there.
39:10
Speaker 9: But Nancy, listen, narrow this down a little bit. When
39:12
Speaker 9: you think about Arizona itself. Right now, in Arizona per
39:16
Speaker 9: codis and this is coming from the FEDS, there are
39:19
Speaker 9: four hundred and thirty four thousand roughly offenders that are
39:24
Speaker 9: registered in Arizona that have the source out of Arizona
39:30
Speaker 9: ties back. You've got seven labs that are participating in
39:34
Speaker 9: Arizona that send this information off and it's deposited with
39:39
Speaker 9: the FBI, the people that manage CODIS. Within that also,
39:43
Speaker 9: there's thirty seven thousand just in Arizona loan of forensic profiles,
39:49
Speaker 9: which means you don't have a name associated with it
39:52
Speaker 9: that's been DNA that has been collected at scenes, it's
39:55
Speaker 9: never been positively identified. So that's a very broad, broad
39:59
Speaker 9: spectrum that you're working on. My contention has been, My
40:03
Speaker 9: contention has been is that if you go to a
40:07
Speaker 9: private lab, if you're going to go with a private lab,
40:11
Speaker 9: there's one in particular have in mind with that has
40:13
Speaker 9: an agreement with the FBI. And again this was fouled
40:15
Speaker 9: up from the beginning. In my humble opinion, you can
40:19
Speaker 9: actually do investigative genetic genealogy now there are open source databases,
40:25
Speaker 9: and you can connect people through their cousins way down
40:29
Speaker 9: the line. That's how they call it coburger. You think
40:31
Speaker 9: about that connected through the father, going back through his line.
40:35
Speaker 9: So anybody that's made that has made a contribution into
40:40
Speaker 9: any of these databases that say, for instance, authorm lab
40:44
Speaker 9: has access to which are open there's your bing goo.
40:49
Speaker 1: Okay, you said authorm lab has access to certain databases.
40:56
Speaker 1: You're not talking about Private Genetic Genealogy Line twenty three
41:00
Speaker 1: and me or ancestry dot com. What specifically are the
41:04
Speaker 1: databases to what you are referring.
41:06
Speaker 9: I can't name them off the top of my head,
41:08
Speaker 9: but there are three that they go to that are
41:10
Speaker 9: open access.
41:12
Speaker 7: I'm there.
41:12
Speaker 2: One is jed match that's public.
41:14
Speaker 9: It is it is. Thanks for reminding me of that.
41:16
Speaker 9: But yeah, you're absolutely right. And they're having grand success
41:20
Speaker 9: with getting bodies identified that have been unidentified for years
41:23
Speaker 9: and years, and that's through familial DNA that they can
41:27
Speaker 9: connect back. So yeah, I mean, listen, I hope it
41:31
Speaker 9: works out with codis, I really do, godspeed. I hope
41:34
Speaker 9: it works out, but there's a high probability you have
41:37
Speaker 9: to factor this in that it might come back negative.
41:40
Speaker 9: I hope it doesn't, I truly do, But if it does,
41:43
Speaker 9: I think that going down the IgG path relative to
41:47
Speaker 9: investigative genetic genealogy is going to be the way to
41:51
Speaker 9: go here because you're going to come back with something.
41:56
Speaker 9: And I don't know, it just feels like the scene
41:59
Speaker 9: is so just organized at this If.
42:01
Speaker 2: In fact, that glove is the one or one of
42:04
Speaker 2: the one's warned, how many other gloves have they filed?
42:07
Speaker 1: Gibbons, Yeah, sixteen, but many of them were the wrong color,
42:12
Speaker 1: the wrong texture, wouldn't even look like a woolen mitten
42:15
Speaker 1: for Pete's sake. And we saw the defense had a
42:18
Speaker 1: heyday with a single glove found in the parking lot
42:22
Speaker 1: at the Brian Coberger scene. So there's no telling what
42:25
Speaker 1: a defense could do with sixteen gloves that had been
42:28
Speaker 1: disposed of by searchers, by yard workers, by road crews,
42:32
Speaker 1: you name it. Crime stories with Nancy Grace, brav at
42:46
Speaker 1: S Gibbons at this juncture, what should be happening.
42:50
Speaker 5: Well, I think what we're seeing in what we hope
42:52
Speaker 5: happens is once these CODIS results come back, that if
42:57
Speaker 5: there is anybody connected, even on the Giffrey, you know,
43:01
Speaker 5: cousin of a lawn care provider to Nancy Guthrie. That
43:07
Speaker 5: law enforcement is able to quickly jump on those leads.
43:11
Speaker 5: But what's happening now is they're running down every single
43:15
Speaker 5: high priority lead that they're getting.
43:16
Speaker 1: As we go to air tonight, another one hundred thousand
43:20
Speaker 1: dollars reward.
43:21
Speaker 2: Has been announced by a personal injury lawyer, Michael Huppy.
43:26
Speaker 1: To you, Dave Mack, crime Story's investigative reporter.
43:29
Speaker 4: What do you know, Well, Huppy actually is in he
43:33
Speaker 4: works with crime Stoppers in Wisconsin. He's head of all
43:36
Speaker 4: of that, and this reward of one hundred thousand dollars
43:39
Speaker 4: is being added on top of other rewards being offered,
43:43
Speaker 4: and Michael Huppy is the attorney offering that via crime
43:46
Speaker 4: Stoppers and their anonymous way of reporting these things. Huppy
43:50
Speaker 4: said he believes that it is the anonymous aspect of
43:53
Speaker 4: crime Stoppers that will allow the perpetrators to actually somebody
43:58
Speaker 4: close to them to come forward.
44:00
Speaker 1: So that's two hundred thousand dollars now on the table
44:04
Speaker 1: for information leading to finding Nancy Guthrie.
44:09
Speaker 2: Wow to you.
44:11
Speaker 1: Eric fattis joining us a founder founder of the law
44:14
Speaker 1: offices of Eric Fattus. Why do you believe the sheriff
44:18
Speaker 1: Nanos made the move to publicly clear the entire family
44:24
Speaker 1: and their spouses, the children, the three siblings, and their spouses.
44:30
Speaker 8: You know, I think there is a ton of public
44:32
Speaker 8: pressure on this sheriff, not only in that community, but
44:35
Speaker 8: nationally perhaps internationally. You know, they're looking for developments.
44:39
Speaker 2: What are y'all doing?
44:40
Speaker 8: What progress have you made? And so I think that
44:42
Speaker 8: that is probably the motivation behind this announcement. And it
44:45
Speaker 8: also perhaps shows that the investigation has enough information to
44:50
Speaker 8: rule out these folks, whether that's on a timeline basis,
44:53
Speaker 8: on a forensic basis, or some other basis. And so
44:55
Speaker 8: it's sort of telegraphs to the world, Hey, we're trying
44:58
Speaker 8: to make progress, and we believe we are, and we
45:01
Speaker 8: believe we can exclude the family as potential perpetrators.
45:04
Speaker 1: And to you, wyf Is Gibbons, why do you believe
45:08
Speaker 1: Nanos took the unusual route of publicly stating the family,
45:16
Speaker 1: the children, Cameron, Annie and Savannah, and their spouses are
45:21
Speaker 1: not suspects, that they've been cleared.
45:25
Speaker 5: Yeah, he's under an incredible amount of media and political
45:29
Speaker 5: pressure here and I have to say that that's the
45:32
Speaker 5: reason why. That's a completely unorthodox thing to hear in
45:37
Speaker 5: any investigation. Why because you know, until the investigations complete,
45:42
Speaker 5: nobody should be ruled out right. We've seen it too
45:46
Speaker 5: many times where investigations change courses, one new bit of
45:52
Speaker 5: information comes in and everything can change. So this is
45:56
Speaker 5: something that you very very rarely see law enforcement to do.
46:00
Speaker 5: So I have to ascribe it to political, political and
46:04
Speaker 5: media pressure.
46:07
Speaker 1: Apparently the missive to TMZ, the last one there have
46:12
Speaker 1: now been four, suggests that Nancy Guthrie has been taken
46:17
Speaker 1: across the Mexican border. Tell me about the last letter, well,
46:23
Speaker 1: not really a letter missive to TMZ, Dave mac Well.
46:27
Speaker 4: Again it's from the same person who claims that they
46:32
Speaker 4: weren't going to send anymore because their feelings got hurt.
46:36
Speaker 4: This person is demanding the fifty thousand dollars bitcoin before
46:40
Speaker 4: they'll give up any information and suggesting that it that
46:45
Speaker 4: the crime has now moved across the border, saying international.
46:49
Speaker 4: In the previous missive to TMZ, Harvey Levin and the
46:54
Speaker 4: staff at TMZ working with law enforcement, issued a challenge
46:59
Speaker 4: to the individual, saying, look.
47:01
Speaker 6: You give us the info. It's all in public.
47:04
Speaker 4: We're doing this on the air, so you have a
47:06
Speaker 4: public record of you offering up this information. If it
47:10
Speaker 4: turns out that you're correct, you'll get your money. So
47:14
Speaker 4: that's where it was left. And again this is the
47:17
Speaker 4: same individual Nancy who has claimed to know who took
47:21
Speaker 4: Nancy Guthrie and where they are keeping her right now,
47:25
Speaker 4: and God is feelings certain said he wasn't going to
47:28
Speaker 4: send any more emails, but of course he did.
47:31
Speaker 1: If you know or believe you know anything regarding the
47:35
Speaker 1: disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, dial one eight hundred two two
47:39
Speaker 1: five five three two four repeat eight hundred two two
47:43
Speaker 1: five five three two four, or if you wish to
47:48
Speaker 1: remain anonymous five two zero eight eight two seven four
47:53
Speaker 1: six three five two zero eight eight two seven four six.
48:01
Speaker 1: We remember American hero Officer Michael Moore Garland, p D, Texas,
48:06
Speaker 1: just thirty two, shot in the line of duty, serving
48:11
Speaker 1: ten years on law enforcement, leaving behind his wife turned
48:16
Speaker 1: widow and three children without a father. American hero Officer
48:21
Speaker 1: Michael Moore Nancy Gray signing off goodbye friend,