Latest / Come Together with Ephraim Herschmann / History Series 3: Jenny Chan / Pacific Atrocities/ Japan, China USA WW2 / War Crimes

Transcript

History Series 3: Jenny Chan / Pacific Atrocities/ Japan, China USA WW2 / War Crimes · Come Together with Ephraim Herschmann

• 0:01
  Welcome to another episode of Come Together.
• 0:15
  And we're back with another episode.
• 0:17
  Jenny Chan welcome. So happy to have you here.
• 0:19
  Thanks so much for coming. Thank you so much for having me.
• 0:22
  My pleasure. Listen, I, it's funny.
• 0:25
  I, I, I, I got, I get emails every now and then and, you
• 0:30
  know, for people asking to come on the show and, you know, I'd
• 0:34
  say maybe so far, 9 out of 10 times I kind of pass over them.
• 0:38
  But there's something about what you were, what about your, I
• 0:41
  guess both the combination of your subject and what you
• 0:44
  immediately started off saying, you know, about what you wanted
• 0:47
  to talk about. That really just caught my
• 0:49
  attention and I figured I'd do a quick Google search and see if
• 0:52
  you were real. And you were.
• 0:54
  And that was great. I'm not a bot.
• 0:58
  I'm right here. I know, I know.
• 0:59
  And you know, it's funny. I, I, I'm doing the same thing
• 1:01
  because when I'm reaching out to people to come onto my show, you
• 1:04
  know, I'm like, I'm a real person.
• 1:06
  I probably, you know, here's some real episodes.
• 1:08
  I promise you could do a Google search.
• 1:10
  You know, I'm a real person, but there's a lot of bots out there.
• 1:12
  So I'm happy that we I'm happy. I double checked and I'm happy
• 1:15
  that you're here tonight. It's going to be great.
• 1:17
  Yeah, I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for actually accepting
• 1:21
  my health invitation to go on your podcast.
• 1:24
  My pleasure, my pleasure. So tell me, tell me about it a
• 1:27
  little bit about yourself, and tell me what we're going to be
• 1:29
  talking about tonight. Yes so I am the Co founder of
• 1:34
  Pacific atrocities education. My other Co founder moved on to
• 1:38
  do AI and tech and basically we're a nonprofit that research
• 1:45
  a lot about World War 2 in Asia. And we have in the last 10
• 1:50
  years. We just really started out as
• 1:53
  kind of a hobby project and then I was trying to look for a job
• 1:56
  in this field, but I really couldn't find a job in this
• 1:59
  field. And so here I am 10 years later
• 2:03
  and I started out trying to figure out what had happened in
• 2:08
  Asia. Like when my grandma was alive,
• 2:11
  she I used to love watching anime and I was watching anime
• 2:16
  in front of her. I think like she even threw out
• 2:19
  a whole box of like manga that I kept under my bed.
• 2:23
  And she was telling me that Japanese people are evil, you
• 2:25
  shouldn't really learn from them, blah blah, blah, blah,
• 2:28
  blah. And I was thinking like, oh man,
• 2:29
  you know this, this old lady is racist.
• 2:31
  And I used to like hide my manga.
• 2:35
  And where would she live in? She lived in Hong Kong during
• 2:39
  the during the occupation of Hong Kong.
• 2:42
  And yeah. And so then I was thinking, wow,
• 2:45
  you know, this is crazy. And and then she would tell me
• 2:50
  stories here and there, like how she had her family had to
• 2:54
  exchange all of her money into military yen.
• 2:57
  And she was really like depressed, really like she I
• 3:03
  barely, I never heard her laugh, actually, now that we talk about
• 3:07
  it. And I think a lot of it had to
• 3:11
  stem from the war. And so then when she passed
• 3:16
  away, I really found this like box of military yen and like
• 3:19
  rice rationing coupon. And I thought like, wow, maybe
• 3:22
  what she was saying has some merits to there are some merits
• 3:26
  to what she was saying. And so then I started
• 3:30
  researching more about what had happened in World War Two.
• 3:32
  I was reading on Wikipedia that like 30 million people perished.
• 3:36
  And I was reading some books and then and I there was really only
• 3:42
  one famous book about the subject is The Rape of Nanking.
• 3:45
  And then I was reading The Rising Sun by John Tolan and
• 3:50
  then I stumbled upon this book. It was really hard to find too.
• 3:54
  It's called the death Factory, which is about unit 731.
• 3:56
  I think we can talk more about it later in this podcast.
• 4:00
  And and then I was thinking that rebuff Nanking is good.
• 4:03
  It's like about 30,000 people getting is not good in terms of
• 4:08
  like the storyline, but like it got me to an understanding of
• 4:12
  what World War 2 was. But if 3300 thousand people in
• 4:17
  my mind, I was thinking, well, if this chapter is about 300,000
• 4:22
  people, what happened to like the other?
• 4:24
  You know, it's only 29.7 million people.
• 4:28
  Sorry it was that you hear my my dog.
• 4:31
  Yeah, put him outside. Let me put him outside.
• 4:33
  I'll be. Right back pause one second.
• 4:36
  I have two kids, so it's no big deal.
• 4:37
  I happen to be all the time. And so I was thinking if Reap of
• 4:41
  Nanking is about 1 episode of World War 2 in Asia and that was
• 4:45
  300,000 people, then what happened to the 29.7 million
• 4:51
  other people? And so I was thinking I was
• 4:56
  trying to go really dig more into what was happening.
• 5:00
  And there's not a whole lot of like literature out there.
• 5:03
  In fact, one of the most important like fraction of World
• 5:08
  War 2 in Asia was called Quantum Army.
• 5:10
  And our organization was the first organization, organization
• 5:16
  that published a book about the quantum army that started like
• 5:19
  World War 2 in Asia and Nigeria. Yeah, it was.
• 5:23
  That's a great question. So no one heard about it.
• 5:29
  So they staged a false flag event on September 18th, 1931,
• 5:35
  ten years before Pearl Harbor, and they invaded Manchuria.
• 5:39
  Who did? Yeah, I'm sorry, Japanese.
• 5:42
  OK, the Japanese Army. Great.
• 5:44
  I was for context, for mice, and I'm sure you know this very
• 5:48
  well. I don't know anything about
• 5:49
  this. And most Americans know very
• 5:51
  little even about where Asia is on a map, you know?
• 5:54
  Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
• 5:56
  For context, can we, before we even get into that real quickly,
• 6:00
  just to lay it out, who was the conflict between at this point
• 6:06
  and what's the, what's the context, you know,
• 6:10
  geographically where is everyone at?
• 6:11
  And you know, what's relationship at this point?
• 6:14
  Can we start with that? In that way, we could kind of
• 6:17
  set the stage and set up a map for people that don't know,
• 6:19
  including myself. Yeah.
• 6:21
  No, that's perfect. That's a great question.
• 6:24
  Great. So geographically, Manchuria is
• 6:29
  in China and this is a conflict between Japan and China.
• 6:33
  OK, and where is Japan relative to China on a map?
• 6:37
  And what do they what? What do they do?
• 6:40
  They fight over religious dogma, minerals, philosophy or forms of
• 6:45
  government. Like what?
• 6:46
  What are they? What's What's the conflict?
• 6:48
  More like a racial superiority because the Japanese at this
• 6:53
  point think that they're above their Asian neighbors.
• 6:56
  I see. And where and where are they at
• 6:57
  this point in terms of are they flourishing?
• 6:59
  Are they? What's their relationship with
• 7:01
  the rest of the world at this point?
• 7:03
  Yeah, why don't I start from 19 O 5 then?
• 7:06
  Yeah, please. So the United States had
• 7:11
  appeared in the Japanese shore in the 1800 actually and before
• 7:17
  and then Japan was somewhat of an isolationist country and.
• 7:22
  And once the United States showed up with gumbo diplomacy
• 7:27
  forcing them to open trade, then they were thinking, wow, we're
• 7:31
  too weak. We need to learn from the West
• 7:33
  and we need to modernize. And so then they sent their best
• 7:38
  to the West to learn how to prepare militarily.
• 7:42
  And at the same time, China was really declining due to the
• 7:46
  addiction of opium and also their military was not was not
• 7:53
  really up to par in comparison to like what Japan was doing
• 7:58
  and. Was a cultural problem for
• 8:01
  China. Yes, it was a cultural problem
• 8:04
  and the government was really not too centrally controlling of
• 8:08
  their was, didn't really have control over their people and
• 8:12
  it's a cultural issue. It was a cultural issue.
• 8:18
  It was a lack of modernization issue.
• 8:21
  They were still very behind in terms of like military, right?
• 8:25
  And so then what had happened is that since Japan was already
• 8:31
  getting up ahead and they had sent men to Harvard and Yale to
• 8:35
  learn like what the West look like and how they can become
• 8:39
  more like the West, then they sent a diplomat named Baron
• 8:46
  Conical to Teddy Roosevelt to try to negotiate to.
• 8:51
  So then and like basically formed this relationship.
• 8:55
  And at one point they formed this really well relationship
• 8:58
  that Teddy Roosevelt even brought Baron Conical to Wall
• 9:02
  Street to fundraise for to build up their military.
• 9:08
  Wow, crazy. Historical Context.
• 9:12
  Yeah. OK.
• 9:13
  So right now, so the relationship between America and
• 9:15
  Japan is a positive relationship at this point.
• 9:17
  Very good and. America and China, what's their
• 9:20
  relationship? Not really existent at this
• 9:22
  point or. Actually, in Chinese, people
• 9:25
  were barred from coming into the United States by 1882 because
• 9:29
  they were working for cheaper labor.
• 9:31
  I mean, they were cheaper laborers.
• 9:33
  And so then white people, white miners and white workers kind of
• 9:37
  saw them as a competitor. And so there was the Chinese
• 9:43
  Exclusionary Act of 1882. And history repeats itself.
• 9:48
  You can see a. Lot about to say that's actually
• 9:51
  relevant. I don't know, it sounds pretty
• 9:53
  crazy. And so then in 1882, Chinese
• 9:57
  people were excluded from the country.
• 10:01
  And there were also a lot of massacres happening with Chinese
• 10:05
  people, with Americans. And the biggest, the biggest
• 10:08
  lynching event in this country, I think, well at least in
• 10:12
  California, was actually on Chinese Americans in the LA
• 10:17
  Chinese massacre. And there was actually no
• 10:20
  Chinese. What happened there?
• 10:23
  They lynched a bunch of Chinese workers because they were
• 10:27
  working for cheaper and a lot of like, a lot of things were just
• 10:32
  blamed onto them. Did they, was it, was it, was
• 10:35
  there ever Chinese responses or, you know, did they ever, you
• 10:38
  know, fight back for themselves? There was a trade war, yeah, in
• 10:44
  the night, like early 1900s. And so this is like really?
• 10:49
  So the trade war. This is this is, this is modern
• 10:53
  events. I mean just, you know.
• 10:54
  Exactly And so the trade war of China, US you can argue started
• 11:00
  in like the early 1900, right Wow.
• 11:02
  And so and so that's the context with China and.
• 11:08
  Conscious so we like Japan we're we're not on a great terms with
• 11:11
  China because they're sending cheap because we because
• 11:14
  Americans perceive that this or they they're complaining that
• 11:17
  that the Chinese people are willing to work for cheaper than
• 11:19
  Americans and and ultimately leading to violent and murderous
• 11:26
  responses right exactly never good.
• 11:30
  And then it's so fascinating because Teddy Roosevelt also won
• 11:34
  a Nobel Peace Prize by giving Korea to Japan in 19 O 5.
• 11:42
  And so Korea was then under Japan's torture for starting in
• 11:50
  19 O 5. And Japan had a similar
• 11:52
  relationship to Korea as they do, as they did with other
• 11:55
  countries, as in they felt superior and they felt they kind
• 11:58
  of bully them. Yes.
• 11:59
  And yeah. And so then, and if you look on
• 12:03
  the map, Korea's very close to Manchuria.
• 12:06
  You can pull it up. You can look it up right now.
• 12:08
  Yeah, I actually, I wanted to get the map open for this
• 12:09
  conversation because I wanted to, I I didn't want to go into
• 12:12
  those details. Cool.
• 12:14
  Yeah. So OK, I'm here.
• 12:19
  So Manchuria today is called Northeast China.
• 12:22
  OK. Northeast China.
• 12:25
  Gotcha. And so here, right next to
• 12:29
  Mongolia, you see that little like, oh shit, here.
• 12:33
  Yeah, I got you. Yeah, and Korea, so you can see
• 12:38
  how close Korea it was to it still is to Japan.
• 12:42
  And then just next to that, that's Manchuria.
• 12:45
  And so Japan thought, well, why don't I in by the 19, By 1931,
• 12:53
  they started a false flag event and took over Manchuria as well.
• 13:00
  This is like, I mean decades of history that I just like, really
• 13:03
  blended in. Yeah, yeah, OK.
• 13:05
  But we're going to maybe we'll do another one with that, but
• 13:08
  we'll focus on World War 2 for the rest, for the rest of this,
• 13:11
  because I do want to go. I'm sure.
• 13:12
  I'm sure I'd love to go back to that too.
• 13:13
  But yes. And it's interesting because at
• 13:16
  this point in 1931, US was also kind of exploiting China in the
• 13:25
  open door policy. So then they have different kind
• 13:28
  of trade. US won the trade war at that
• 13:30
  point. So China had an open, there was
• 13:35
  an open door policy, which is to kind of exploit the trade rules.
• 13:39
  And because of Japan invading China, now US doesn't.
• 13:45
  Japan closed the door. For the US, no way so that so
• 13:49
  that causes US and Japan relationships to to fall apart.
• 13:54
  Right, but US was still selling steel and oil to Japan during
• 13:58
  the Rape of Nanking. It just, it just so happened
• 14:02
  that Pearl Harbor stopped that right?
• 14:06
  So 10 years later. Ten years later, right.
• 14:09
  So let's let's talk a little bit about those 10 years and let's
• 14:11
  talk about so so World War 2. So at this point, again, you
• 14:18
  know, when we were talking the phone, we were saying how during
• 14:20
  when people think about World War Two, we think about Europe,
• 14:23
  we think about Hitler, we think about Eastern Europe and, you
• 14:26
  know, Nazi Germany. And we don't really talk about,
• 14:29
  you know, what Asia's involvement was at all.
• 14:32
  And you say that part of the reason was that a lot of the
• 14:34
  documentation was classified. Is that what it was?
• 14:36
  Is that what you mentioned? Yes, a lot of it was classified
• 14:39
  until like very recently. And also when Japan surrendered,
• 14:44
  they burned most of the documents.
• 14:46
  So whatever we find is just by chance that we can, we were able
• 14:49
  to find it. So we're not going to get the
• 14:51
  full picture really, because we have too many missing pieces.
• 14:55
  No, yeah, yeah, really. But we get like a part of the
• 14:59
  picture, which is still pretty good.
• 15:01
  I think it's still pretty like illuminating.
• 15:04
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely so. And I actually want to ask as
• 15:08
  far as, and I wanted, and you brought this up at the
• 15:11
  beginning. Now, I guess now that we have a
• 15:13
  little more context, we could go back to what you were talking
• 15:16
  about. And you mentioned that your
• 15:18
  grandmother was complaining and was particularly upset about the
• 15:20
  fact that the that their that their her family was forced to
• 15:24
  trade their money in for military yen instead of whatever
• 15:27
  currency they had. Right?
• 15:29
  Yes, I want to just maybe you can elaborate on what kind of
• 15:34
  impact that has on the family because I, I, you know, my
• 15:37
  grandfather had a similar story. My grandfather was in Poland at
• 15:41
  the time on the border between, I believe it is Ukraine and
• 15:47
  Russia, and that's and the USSR at the time.
• 15:49
  And his family and his family knew that Germany was going to
• 15:53
  overtake, you know, Poland. And so the question was, do they
• 15:58
  go to Ukraine and go or go to the go, go, you know, go to the
• 16:01
  USSR or they or they go to the, you know, to, to the, to
• 16:05
  Germany, what would become Germany, you know, once Poland
• 16:07
  fell. And, and that happens to be the
• 16:11
  town was on the border. And within a couple of years,
• 16:15
  the town had shifted, I guess, sovereignty a few times.
• 16:19
  And they went from being a very wealthy family to having no
• 16:21
  money at all just based on being forced to keep on swapping their
• 16:26
  currency over to other to other countries currencies, you know,
• 16:29
  and they and they lost an enormous amount of money like
• 16:31
  that. So.
• 16:32
  So, I mean, I don't know if you can elaborate as, as you know
• 16:36
  what that means for your family, but I know that, you know, yeah.
• 16:39
  Definitely and. That's great.
• 16:41
  Very, very interesting. And military yen basically had
• 16:44
  like no value by the end of the war.
• 16:46
  And so our families have very similar stories than that.
• 16:51
  After the war, my grandma's family was left with no money.
• 16:56
  Wow, wow, because the money, because the money at that point
• 17:00
  for Chinese military yen was worth like.
• 17:04
  No, the Japanese military. Yeah, I'm sorry.
• 17:06
  So at first in the beginning of the war, I was reading about
• 17:09
  this. At beginning of the war, Hong
• 17:11
  Kong dollars to the Japanese military yen was 1 to 1.
• 17:16
  Then it became like 1 to 10 and then it become like 1 to 100
• 17:21
  and. Then was that dramatic?
• 17:23
  Right. Yeah.
• 17:23
  And then so by the end of the war, it was worth nothing
• 17:26
  because Japan had fallen. And so then for these people,
• 17:30
  you know, my it was worth less than toilet paper.
• 17:33
  Wow. Wow.
• 17:37
  Crazy. I can't imagine.
• 17:38
  I mean, it's like, equivalent to everything.
• 17:40
  My bank account just being worthless now, you know,
• 17:42
  everyone's savings just gone, you know, and like, because.
• 17:45
  OK, well, you know what? We owe so much money to everyone
• 17:47
  else that you know what? The euro is the new currency now
• 17:49
  and then the American dollar is worth a lot less.
• 17:51
  And think about what would happen to everyone here.
• 17:53
  That'd be crazy. Yeah.
• 17:55
  But right now, inflation is scary in our country, don't you
• 17:58
  think? I think.
• 18:00
  Inflation may be one of the scariest things to me, and I've
• 18:05
  been thinking about this quite a bit, but I my.
• 18:11
  My fear is that the emphasis is on the wrong syllable when it
• 18:17
  comes to cutting, you know, cutting spending.
• 18:21
  And, you know, my understanding at this moment, at this time is
• 18:26
  that there's America, the homeland, which is all the
• 18:28
  people that live here and work and create value and, you know,
• 18:32
  participate and contribute to the, you know, economy and
• 18:35
  social culture and political climate and everything.
• 18:39
  And then there's America, the empire, which is interested in
• 18:43
  what they call spreading democracy or, you know, getting
• 18:47
  people under the American thumb, you know, a rule.
• 18:49
  And the empire gets its source of energy, you know, it's, it's
• 18:56
  money literally from the taxpayers, you know, from the
• 18:58
  people that are working here. And then but they're, they've
• 19:01
  been overspending on the on empire building to the extent
• 19:05
  that the people that are providing the funds for the
• 19:08
  empire to continue growing are running out of money and running
• 19:12
  out of resources. And we're not creating, you
• 19:15
  know, we're, we're printing more money than actual value created
• 19:19
  and actual services provided. And so, you know, my concern, my
• 19:22
  concern for inflation is not just like, oh, everyone has to
• 19:26
  stop spending a couple of bucks here and there and start
• 19:28
  budgeting. It's like we have to stop
• 19:31
  expanding, you know, all over the world for a little while and
• 19:35
  focus on, you know, we regathering our efforts.
• 19:38
  Yeah, and focus on us for a little while.
• 19:40
  And, you know, and less wars and it looks like we're getting into
• 19:43
  more now. And it's almost like we left the
• 19:45
  Middle East. Like we're like, you know what,
• 19:47
  there's no more damage to do here.
• 19:48
  Let's go to South America now. You know, like, OK, I mean if
• 19:51
  you want to, but it doesn't look, I don't think it's going
• 19:53
  to work for anyone, so. I really don't think so either.
• 19:56
  But that's that's my concern. And I think they're very focused
• 20:00
  on having other people be like them.
• 20:03
  Right. And then let's spread democracy.
• 20:05
  And yeah. But anyway, I digress.
• 20:08
  Let's go back. To yes, let's do it.
• 20:10
  So anyway, so you're finding out, so you're finding, you're
• 20:13
  realizing that there's very little history and you're doing
• 20:16
  homework now to try to dig up more work.
• 20:19
  And you ended up being, do you end up writing the book or
• 20:22
  participating in the book about the, about the quantum army?
• 20:25
  Quantum army. I help my my research fellow in
• 20:29
  researching and like, awesome. Yeah.
• 20:32
  But it was hard work because a lot of these like National
• 20:36
  Archives maps and paper and whatnot, they're actually very
• 20:43
  fragile. They're 80 years old.
• 20:45
  And in fact, this is 1 trivial fact that the Civil War papers
• 20:49
  are actually in better shape than World War 2 papers.
• 20:53
  Because in Civil War, paper was still printed out of like cotton
• 20:57
  paper. And by the time of World War
• 21:00
  Two, there was no resources. So it's all onion pure paper.
• 21:03
  Wow, that's crazy. And you said that none of that.
• 21:09
  And you said that very, very few of the documentation, if any,
• 21:11
  had been digitized, right? Yeah, it's like maybe 1% in the
• 21:17
  National Archives have done because we're too busy fighting
• 21:20
  wars. And so then I was just like,
• 21:23
  well, let's just do it because we're already here.
• 21:26
  So we were digitizing and I think now we have like 1,000,000
• 21:29
  pages of like World War 2 documents related to like Unit
• 21:32
  731 to the Quantum Army, to like Manchuria, to like the policy at
• 21:38
  the time and also like war crimes document and like the
• 21:41
  Philippines, the baton death March.
• 21:43
  And so we have all kinds of things, yeah.
• 21:46
  OK, well, let's tackle, let's tackle these topics.
• 21:48
  You want to I right now I caught 4 things.
• 21:51
  You got Unit 731, the quantum army.
• 21:53
  Man, I want to talk about, I mean, if you want to elaborate a
• 21:56
  little bit more in the history, it seems that you mentioned
• 21:57
  Manchuria a bunch of times and maybe the context a little bit
• 22:00
  more about what that is about the crimes or war crimes, which
• 22:05
  I would love to hear more about, you know?
• 22:07
  Yeah. So Manchuria is actually very
• 22:09
  fascinating. Like the more I look at it, the
• 22:11
  more fascinating it was like Japan conquer it for this kind
• 22:16
  of economic utopia because it's a very like resource rich land.
• 22:22
  And so they had forced laborers who they like got, they grabbed
• 22:30
  4 million like forced laborers from Korea and from China to
• 22:34
  work on this land and from going from like mining to
• 22:38
  manufacturing. And also Unit 731, the infamous
• 22:43
  Unit 731 is located there, actually not too infamous
• 22:47
  because not a lot of people have.
• 22:48
  Who knows about it, right? Exactly.
• 22:50
  You get infamous. So how do you?
• 22:53
  You have to be infamous if people heard about it.
• 22:56
  That's right, That's right. So tell me.
• 22:58
  So tell me about so it's so and, and who was fighting over it at
• 23:02
  this point? You said that Japan conquered
• 23:04
  it. Who else was interested in it?
• 23:06
  I'm trying to find it on a map over here.
• 23:10
  Maybe type in northeast northeast China?
• 23:16
  It's how far is it here Is Beijing, North Korea, Shenyang.
• 23:20
  Shenyang is a part of Manchuria. OK, gotcha.
• 23:23
  OK, gotcha. Gotcha.
• 23:24
  So it's right by the oh, it's on the border of the Koreas.
• 23:28
  Yes. OK.
• 23:29
  I see exactly what we're talking about now.
• 23:31
  And it looks like, So it it, it looks and is Dalian part of it?
• 23:36
  It's Dandong. Thailand is part of it.
• 23:40
  Hey, you see? Hey, Long Jian.
• 23:42
  So it's valuable because it's on the water and it's bordering.
• 23:46
  Yeah, OK, gotcha. So it's good for trade, it's
• 23:48
  good for resources. It's probably really important
• 23:50
  militarily as far as strategy goes, yes.
• 23:53
  Because Russia is also there and Russia had built this railroad
• 23:58
  that was funded by the French. And since Japan captured, they
• 24:04
  didn't no longer had to pay back the French.
• 24:07
  And then, wow, French financial company had to file bankruptcy
• 24:11
  at the time. Yeah, I can imagine.
• 24:12
  You imagine you got a great business deal, and all of a
• 24:14
  sudden you found out that the company that was that was doing
• 24:17
  your work for you got conquered by another country.
• 24:23
  Yeah, there. Was a lot going on
• 24:25
  internationally at this time yeah.
• 24:27
  And so, yeah, so you can see that this is what do the people.
• 24:31
  Consider themselves. What are the people that are
• 24:33
  there? Do they do they consider
• 24:34
  themselves Chinese? Do they consider themselves?
• 24:37
  Japanese. That's actually a very
• 24:38
  interesting question. So, you know, the last dynasty
• 24:41
  of China was not actually the Han Chinese, they were actually
• 24:45
  the Manchurian Chinese. And before the last dynasty of
• 24:48
  China, Manchuria was not considered a part of China.
• 24:52
  But because they had invaded China, they incorporated them
• 24:54
  that region into China itself. And that's why it was then
• 24:58
  considered Manchuria, China. Cool.
• 25:02
  Gotcha. Awesome.
• 25:03
  And the people, now where do the people?
• 25:05
  Yeah, they're Manchuria. They consider themselves
• 25:08
  Chinese. It's considered the northeast
• 25:10
  part of China. Yeah, I see.
• 25:13
  OK, awesome. That's great context and I
• 25:15
  really that's really good to know.
• 25:17
  What's the is this a da, the Hingun Ling is, are those
• 25:23
  mountains? Is that a mountain range just
• 25:25
  north of it, north of Chen Chung?
• 25:27
  Chen Chung? Oh, that's Harbin.
• 25:30
  North of Chen Chung is Harbin. And and then there's Halem.
• 25:35
  Yeah, Halo between. Yeah, between Harbin and Halo.
• 25:41
  Between Harbin. Yeah, if you're looking at my
• 25:45
  phone, you could see. That's a lake, yeah.
• 25:51
  It's a lake. It looks dry to yeah.
• 25:56
  OK, anyway, so let's keep going. So now, so this place is obvious
• 26:00
  and by the way, and it's pretty. Has it been is maturely
• 26:04
  considered like calm or is it considered relatively unstable
• 26:07
  since since World War 2? The time was considered rural,
• 26:10
  and that's why they decided that it's a good idea to start a
• 26:14
  human experimentation lab there, because no one's going to know.
• 26:18
  OK, so tell us about 7:31, which I guess is a human
• 26:21
  experimentation lab. Tell me about it.
• 26:23
  Yeah. So at the time of Japan
• 26:28
  occupying Manchuria, Ishishiro has started a lab in Tokyo.
• 26:35
  But then it was way too high profile, and he was afraid of,
• 26:38
  like, Karen's telling on him and whatnot.
• 26:41
  And so then he decided to move his lab to Manchuria.
• 26:45
  So he took a road trip with his friends to consider like, oh,
• 26:48
  where am I going to put this lab?
• 26:50
  And he picked the soy sauce factory.
• 26:51
  But even like at a remote area with the soy sauce factory, like
• 26:56
  these prisoners were still able to escape from his human
• 27:01
  experimentation. So then he was thinking, maybe
• 27:05
  that's not remote enough. So then he took over a village
• 27:08
  in Ping Fong to start his human experimentation lab.
• 27:13
  And what kind of experiments were they doing?
• 27:15
  Was this lane I in World War 2 was notorious for human
• 27:19
  experimentation apparently and. Yes, you know.
• 27:22
  It's crazy that even more of it's going on.
• 27:24
  What were they trying to do there?
• 27:26
  They were trying to treat frostbites.
• 27:28
  They were trying to make biological war weapons because
• 27:35
  he had read the Geneva Convention and he said that,
• 27:38
  well, if the Geneva, if it's so powerful, if germs so powerful
• 27:44
  that they needed to write rules about it, we need to harness
• 27:47
  this kind of germs. And so then he was making
• 27:51
  weapons. At one point he was making
• 27:54
  fleas. So then the fleas can, what you
• 27:59
  call it, transfer the plague and but then the order in order to
• 28:02
  make more fleas he needed more rats.
• 28:05
  So then he was paying villagers in these like other villages to
• 28:09
  breed rats. So then he can breed more fleas
• 28:13
  to spray to spread the plague with his ceramic bomb that is.
• 28:18
  It sounds so disgusting that I'm just like, OK, what did I just
• 28:21
  say? You know what?
• 28:24
  So you know what? It's funny that you say that.
• 28:26
  I, I, I was, I did, I was thinking about this a lot
• 28:29
  recently. Sometimes, you know, you we hear
• 28:36
  things that sound so far fetched that we just dismiss it out of
• 28:40
  hand because we don't even want to like think about the fact
• 28:42
  that could be reality. You know, and like you hear
• 28:44
  things like no, that just can't be true.
• 28:46
  Like come on, bugs that you give a disease to it that goes around
• 28:49
  and ice like a bomb, you know, like fleas.
• 28:50
  I go around and say acts like a weapon like to get everyone sick
• 28:53
  and like how you even in control that you going to do but I mean.
• 28:57
  How are you going to control that?
• 28:59
  And so, like, as part of what I was thinking about when I was
• 29:02
  reading these documents, I'm like, OK, so Japan wanted to
• 29:05
  occupy China, but what the hell are they going to do with, like,
• 29:08
  no soil, with glanders and anthrax?
• 29:10
  What were they thinking? It's not like you can just pour
• 29:13
  bleach and then like, stop the plague, right?
• 29:15
  Yeah, yeah. So it's almost like
• 29:17
  self-inflicted wound at that point.
• 29:19
  Right, exactly. Wow.
• 29:21
  But then they were doing human experimentation to see like also
• 29:27
  how human bodies would react to the plague, for example, and,
• 29:33
  and talk about destroying like data and documents.
• 29:37
  It's very interesting because if you think about it, you, we can
• 29:43
  never know about how many humans were captured in this human
• 29:47
  experimentation lab because they started from because in order to
• 29:51
  figure out like to number the victims or to to dehumanize the
• 29:56
  victims, they gave them like numbers.
• 29:58
  So it goes from like zero to 1000 and then they start to
• 30:03
  count against and then from zero to another thousand.
• 30:06
  So we never know. And then they were calling these
• 30:10
  victims Logs or Maruta just to like dehumanize them.
• 30:14
  And So what? Does Amaruta mean?
• 30:19
  Amaruta means log in Japanese. Log.
• 30:22
  Yeah, yes. And I was reading like the
• 30:27
  special transfer order from the quantum army and then they were
• 30:33
  saying, oh, how many, however many Maruta captured.
• 30:36
  Then you already figured out like, OK, so they were capturing
• 30:40
  humans. They were not using it as like
• 30:42
  logs or like lumber mill whatnot.
• 30:44
  So it's just like, so that's why we can never know how many
• 30:50
  humans were used for human experimentation.
• 30:53
  But then like, the consequences of Unit 731 is also severe
• 30:57
  because they were using it on like soil on China, for example.
• 31:01
  Let's go back to Pearl Harbor, right?
• 31:04
  Like Americans know about Pearl Harbor, but right after Pearl
• 31:08
  Harbor, FDR wanted to attack, attacked Japan back for morale.
• 31:14
  And So what they did was that they sent these pilots out to to
• 31:19
  Tokyo, but it was like a one way ticket and but they can maybe
• 31:24
  possibly make it back to China. And so then they landed in
• 31:28
  Chinese airfields in like Zhejiang province.
• 31:31
  And they then sprinkled and then Chinese people rescued these
• 31:38
  pilots who landed in China. And in order for to revenge on
• 31:44
  these Chinese villages, then the Japanese Unit 731 disseminated
• 31:50
  anthrax and glanders in the soil.
• 31:52
  And so for decades later, these farmers who were working on this
• 31:56
  land would get like, would get glanders and anthrax on their
• 31:59
  legs and their their legs, their skin would like rot.
• 32:04
  And it was. Happening.
• 32:08
  No, the crops were, yes, the crops were destroyed.
• 32:14
  And so, yeah, so this is the kind of like things that were
• 32:19
  happening in World War 2 in China.
• 32:21
  And so I was thinking when I was reading through I'm like, wow,
• 32:24
  why have I never learned about this?
• 32:26
  This sounds, and it's interesting because the lawsuit
• 32:29
  happened like in maybe in 2002 as well up into 2002 where they
• 32:35
  were really trying, a lot of the Chinese victims went to the
• 32:39
  Japanese court to try to get reparation or whatnot because it
• 32:44
  was really affecting their livelihood.
• 32:46
  And the court said, well, we, we acknowledge that it happened,
• 32:52
  but there's, we cannot pay because it was like a time of
• 32:58
  war. And so, yeah, so I'm, I didn't
• 33:01
  make it up, but it really didn't happen because the Japanese
• 33:04
  court didn't admit it. Yeah.
• 33:06
  And you know what, it's, it's interesting because you think
• 33:08
  about it's a different type of atrocity.
• 33:15
  You know, like you read, you read stories about what was
• 33:19
  going on in, I guess Eastern Europe or throughout Europe, and
• 33:21
  you hear more stories of decapitations and mass body
• 33:25
  pileups and, you know, mass shootings and stuff like that.
• 33:28
  And this almost feels like, you know, we're not going to do that
• 33:31
  straight up. We're going to like infect you,
• 33:34
  We're going to get you like we're we're just going to it it
• 33:37
  it it almost feels sneakier in a certain way.
• 33:39
  You know that like it's a lot. It's almost like passive.
• 33:43
  So it's passive and it's it's probably more intelligent.
• 33:47
  It's got to be smarter warfare, right, Because you're not giving
• 33:50
  there's no face to the to the crime.
• 33:52
  There's no, there's no name, there's no face.
• 33:54
  There's very little association. There's very little
• 33:56
  documentation and then today you can say everything you want and
• 33:59
  you can know that it happened, but there's no one to be held
• 34:01
  accountable at any point. You know you don't have any kind
• 34:03
  of records. Right.
• 34:04
  Exactly. And and after the war, the
• 34:08
  Soviets went into China and the first thing Ishiro did was to
• 34:15
  burn all the records. And he, he apparently he did
• 34:18
  save a copy for like his luggage and he went to Japan and he
• 34:22
  fixed his own death, but the CIA found him.
• 34:27
  Wow, they were looking for him. They were looking for him, but
• 34:31
  they ended up buying his research just because.
• 34:35
  Yeah, I. Wonder why they?
• 34:38
  Needed it. I bet for science, for science,
• 34:42
  right, that we need it more. And so if you like hear about
• 34:48
  like anthrax that remember all those anthrax attacks, a lot of
• 34:52
  people don't remember this, but like an anthrax attacks in like
• 34:55
  2001 that all came from Japanese technology dating back to World
• 35:00
  War 2. Wow, so it was out of the
• 35:03
  playbook. Yeah.
• 35:05
  Wow, crazy. So OK, what?
• 35:10
  I know this is like an evening time.
• 35:12
  You're like, OK, I'm trying to go to bed.
• 35:14
  No, no. I know I, I, I, I think this is
• 35:17
  this is important. This is, this is important.
• 35:18
  This is great to think about. So, so this so right now and
• 35:24
  this is post, this is post Pearl Harbor.
• 35:27
  This pre Pearl Harbor has America, has American and
• 35:30
  Japanese relationships soured yet or not yet?
• 35:33
  During the sprinkling of the biological weapon, yeah, that's
• 35:37
  already soured. That's after Pearl Harbor.
• 35:40
  And they sent through little Raiders to Japan.
• 35:44
  And then they and then the Japanese were upset about the
• 35:49
  Chinese people rescuing the US pilot.
• 35:52
  And so then that's why they had a revenge attack on Zhejiang
• 35:55
  and. When did and when did it?
• 35:57
  What year did our Did American and Japanese relationships
• 36:00
  deteriorate to the point of hostility?
• 36:04
  1941 officially, but if you think about it, FDR was
• 36:08
  supplying China like some weapons to fight the war in
• 36:13
  Japan as well. I mean against Japan as well
• 36:16
  China. And when was that?
• 36:19
  When was China and Japan fight? When were China and Japan
• 36:21
  fighting? Well Japan occupied China in
• 36:26
  like 1931, but officially they started fighting in 1937 when
• 36:30
  Japan wanted more of the Chinese land.
• 36:34
  So we so we flip-flopped American flopped our
• 36:36
  relationship. Yes.
• 36:39
  Another another thing that rhymes with current events I
• 36:42
  guess, right? Yeah, exactly.
• 36:44
  And it's so interesting because talk about spreading democracy.
• 36:49
  The family that got America to really flip flop on their Asia
• 36:53
  policy was the Song family. And the Song family, the Grandpa
• 36:59
  Charlie song, made money selling Bibles in America.
• 37:03
  And, you know, Pearl bucks China, like, good Earth movie.
• 37:08
  Yeah. So then they had this like idea
• 37:12
  that there were a ton of Chinese people in China waiting to
• 37:16
  become Christian. And so Charlie it sounds so
• 37:23
  loud, far fetched. And so then Charlie song make
• 37:26
  money selling Bibles and song the and then there were three
• 37:31
  sisters song mailing song Eiling and song chain Ling and song
• 37:38
  mailing and up getting like USDA cotton contract and also like
• 37:42
  they're trying land lease supply money.
• 37:46
  And the Som family really lobbied FDR into kind of helping
• 37:54
  out China. By helping to spread Christian
• 37:57
  values, Yes. And how did the Chinese take
• 38:01
  that? Chinese at the time actually.
• 38:04
  This is like a very unpopular opinion and Chinese people call
• 38:08
  the Som family like making money out of disaster because they're
• 38:13
  trying. And Chiang Kai Shek, who was
• 38:16
  married to one of the Song sister, was the ultimately the
• 38:21
  World War 2 leader of China, but he was just a fancier like
• 38:26
  warlord than other warlords. And at this time, China was not
• 38:31
  really what you think about China today.
• 38:33
  It was very like fractured as a country.
• 38:37
  And so there's all kinds of different warlords fighting for
• 38:40
  all kinds of different part of China because China is such a
• 38:43
  big country. And so, yeah.
• 38:47
  And so a lot of the. We're talking about the the
• 38:53
  spread of Christianity, the attempting attempted spread of
• 38:56
  Christianity. Yes, attempted to spread
• 38:58
  Christianity. And is there a religion there?
• 39:03
  Has there been religion historically in China that that
• 39:07
  people had adhere to or? Confusion Buddhism, right?
• 39:12
  And yeah. Gotcha.
• 39:15
  And remind me if you know. I don't know if you know because
• 39:20
  I don't know. I asked a friend of mine who's
• 39:21
  from who's from Mumbai the difference between Hinduism and
• 39:25
  Buddhism, which one was Buddha. Buddhism was was later in
• 39:31
  Hinduism. Vice versa, I don't remember,
• 39:35
  but I think that Buddhism actually did come from India
• 39:38
  because Monkey King, my favorite classic.
• 39:43
  Yeah. Monkey King was going to the
• 39:47
  West to get the wisdom from Buddha right, and I think that
• 39:51
  he must have been going to India.
• 39:55
  Amazing, amazing, amazing. And so China World War 2 is not
• 40:00
  what China is today. It's not really a threat as far
• 40:04
  as we know. In fact, it was an ally to
• 40:06
  America as of as of 1941, you said?
• 40:10
  Or 39. 1937. 37 We became we became allies, and then we were
• 40:17
  allies until post until post World War 2 where Japan was no
• 40:22
  longer really considered a threat to anyone.
• 40:24
  And at what point did China start rebuilding and when did
• 40:26
  they kick that opioid problem? They kicked the drug problem.
• 40:33
  Yeah, I think that the drug problem was solved post 1949,
• 40:40
  post Mao, But yeah, but and also, when you're at a war, when
• 40:45
  you're at a Total War and you're starving, I don't think you're
• 40:49
  you're going to be thinking about opium too much.
• 40:53
  You may not, you may not want to think about it, but if you're,
• 40:56
  if, if, if you have a dependency on it, you know, I, I think that
• 40:59
  there's a lot of people that, you know, have very limited
• 41:01
  funds and, and, and are, you know, addicted or dependent
• 41:04
  that, that unfortunately might, you know, lose set of their
• 41:08
  priorities or the right way to spend their money.
• 41:09
  That's, you know, at different points.
• 41:11
  So I, I mean, I could imagine that even in wartime, it's, you
• 41:13
  know, if you're really an addict, you really have a
• 41:16
  dependent, a chemical dependency on it, then you're probably not
• 41:20
  making the right decisions anyway, you know?
• 41:22
  Yeah, actually in, in fact, I think at one point the opium
• 41:25
  problem was so bad, in fact I visited like a comfort woman.
• 41:29
  I don't know if you know what comfort women.
• 41:32
  No. Comfort women were like sex
• 41:34
  slaves in World War 2. So and a lot of people think
• 41:39
  about comfort women as like Korean comfort women, but they
• 41:41
  were doing it like everywhere that Japan occupied.
• 41:45
  And so I was visiting one of the comfort women in Shanxi in
• 41:50
  China. And her father was addicted to
• 41:55
  opium during the war. And, and it was actually a
• 42:01
  really sad story. Let me digress to that story,
• 42:04
  please her. So she was kept in like a camp
• 42:10
  where she was forced to serve and purely Japanese soldiers.
• 42:15
  And so she was raped like 1015 times a day.
• 42:20
  And by the time war ended, she was pregnant and but with a very
• 42:28
  like traditional Chinese village, she didn't want to let
• 42:31
  anyone know. So her she kind of kept away
• 42:34
  from the public eye for a while, like she didn't go to the street
• 42:37
  and whatnot. And then after a while she gave
• 42:40
  birth and then she was then her mom and her buried the child and
• 42:47
  buried the baby in The Cave after the war.
• 42:51
  And she hasn't thought about it since until like, I was asking
• 42:54
  her, oh, what happened to you? And she was so old And I was
• 42:57
  interviewing her that she just came out with that story.
• 43:02
  And yeah, it's. Crazy, crazy, crazy.
• 43:06
  So that was so and these comfort, what do you call
• 43:09
  comfort? Comfort Women.
• 43:11
  Comfort women. They were.
• 43:12
  They were. They were Japanese.
• 43:16
  No, they're Chinese. Well, actually they were
• 43:18
  Japanese comfort women too. They were in the beginning, they
• 43:21
  were like Japanese women who only served the generals and
• 43:24
  like, and later on in the war too, like you can see that the
• 43:30
  generals and the higher tier of Japanese soldiers had like
• 43:36
  Japanese or Korean woman. And then wherever they occupy,
• 43:39
  those are like, that's like for the bottom tier of the Japanese
• 43:43
  soldiers. Wow, Yeah, we don't, you know,
• 43:46
  it's, it's also something interesting.
• 43:48
  And I guess it's because it's really, really so unpleasant and
• 43:51
  so terrible to think about. But we don't think about the,
• 43:54
  the sexual violence that that, that, that, that war often.
• 43:57
  And we don't talk nearly about enough about or learn nearly
• 44:00
  enough about it, about the sexual violence that war
• 44:02
  creates, you know, because I, I mean, we had that with the
• 44:06
  Ukrainians, the Germans, the Russians.
• 44:08
  We had, I mean, I mean, everyone.
• 44:11
  And war just brings out this animal, you know?
• 44:14
  And you, I mean, I could never understand.
• 44:17
  I hope to never understand, you know, but.
• 44:19
  Also, at this point, Japan was trained to believe that they're
• 44:23
  better than all of their Asian neighbors.
• 44:25
  Yeah. So I think that's also a big
• 44:27
  part of what happened. Well, there's a big, I think
• 44:30
  that's psychologically. And I mean, we need this.
• 44:34
  People need people, people that want other people to go to war
• 44:38
  need for this to happen. We need to dehumanize and create
• 44:41
  an us and them mentality because it it it allows us to
• 44:46
  cognitively distance ourselves from our actions and make
• 44:51
  justifications and say, you know, I would never do this to
• 44:55
  another person, but that's not a person, that's an animal, you
• 44:57
  know, like I would never do that to another.
• 44:59
  Person. You know, and, and, and the more
• 45:02
  that and, and at a certain point, you know, I imagine that
• 45:05
  we even like need that justification, like we need an
• 45:07
  excuse to keep doing what we're doing because we couldn't live
• 45:09
  with ourselves otherwise, you know, and, and so, you know, to
• 45:13
  have the to and to say we are supreme.
• 45:16
  We are better than they are. We are, you know, you know.
• 45:19
  Actually like Teddy Roosevelt's justification to colonize
• 45:23
  Philippines too. So I don't know if you know too
• 45:28
  much about the American colonization of Philippines.
• 45:30
  Nothing about it so. And so and because it was such
• 45:36
  an unpopular thing to go colonize another country.
• 45:40
  What Teddy Roosevelt ended up doing is to get a bunch of
• 45:45
  Filipinos and had a world Expo in 19 O 5 in Saint Louis and,
• 45:52
  and to display their like uncivil that they're uncivil.
• 45:57
  He he shaved a bunch of their teeth and then put dogs in there
• 46:01
  and then said that oh, the Filipinos are dog eaters and
• 46:05
  blah blah blah. Way.
• 46:07
  That's what the. Yeah, and this is the 19 O five
• 46:10
  World Expo. And so then that's justified why
• 46:16
  they needed to expand their empire to the Philippines.
• 46:20
  And it's interesting because I like during World War 2, right
• 46:24
  after Pearl Harbor, in like within 8 hours they were
• 46:26
  attacking Philippines and whatnot.
• 46:28
  And at first the Filipinos were like welcoming the Japanese.
• 46:31
  They're like, Oh my God, what can be worse than the Americans?
• 46:35
  And and then they witnessed the Japanese like brutally like
• 46:38
  raping their woman and also killing their their children.
• 46:42
  And so that they were like, OK, actually the Japanese can be
• 46:44
  worse than Americans. So then they joined Americans in
• 46:48
  fighting the Japanese. They did.
• 46:51
  Yes. So it was like to pick a lesser
• 46:54
  evil. And and I guess the Philippines,
• 47:00
  I guess America's interest in the Philippines would be that
• 47:02
  geographically it's. In the Pacific.
• 47:07
  It's in the Pacific. It's all the way to the West.
• 47:11
  Would you call it the West? Face it.
• 47:14
  Oh, are you looking at a map right now?
• 47:16
  I'm looking at a globe, yeah, but the globes are circular and
• 47:19
  they're throwing me off. Well, they're.
• 47:24
  Interested in the Philippines because then they can trade with
• 47:27
  China and also that's why they were also interested in Hawaii
• 47:32
  as well because the Pacific. Well, that's that's what I just
• 47:35
  recently figured out. And I'm like, Oh my God, this
• 47:37
  makes so much sense. And the fact that Hawaii is the
• 47:40
  one that got bombed, I was like, and it's funny because growing
• 47:43
  up I was like, why would anyone attack Hawaii?
• 47:45
  And I'm like, oh, because it's the closest point that you can
• 47:48
  get to to America from. And I only realized it's like a
• 47:51
  month ago. So yes, yeah.
• 47:54
  So that was So what was Hawaii? Do you know where Hawaii was
• 47:57
  before America had it? They were Hawaii.
• 47:59
  They had a queen, they had a king.
• 48:02
  And before, yeah, before they has a lot of contact with seven.
• 48:07
  Like in 1778 I think some sailors discovered Hawaii and.
• 48:13
  Find it even I said it's where would anyone, how would anyone
• 48:18
  end up in Hawaii? It's in the middle of nowhere.
• 48:21
  There's no, there's no land around it.
• 48:26
  I think it was during the Ice Age they in Hawaii.
• 48:32
  I guess so. I guess so anyway, yes, I'm
• 48:34
  sorry to continue your so so America.
• 48:36
  So so the so Americans came to colonize the Philippines.
• 48:39
  The Philippines are like, oh, wait, let's let's work with the
• 48:41
  Japanese. And they realized that the
• 48:43
  Japanese were worse than the Americans at this point.
• 48:46
  And so they ended up joining the Americans fighting back the
• 48:48
  Japanese. And did they fight them off?
• 48:51
  So MacArthur kind of left the Philippines to fight by
• 48:54
  themselves. You know, the favorite, the, the
• 48:56
  very famous speech I shall return.
• 48:59
  And like all these guerrilla fighters had to rise up to the
• 49:02
  occasion and they were fighting for like 3 years without any
• 49:06
  weapons and really any supply and any backup from anyone.
• 49:12
  And yeah. And then MacArthur returned in
• 49:17
  like, in like the late 1940s. And then there was the Manila
• 49:22
  massacre, because MacArthur did not plan that the Japanese was
• 49:29
  going to fight until the last man.
• 49:32
  Yeah. And like, it's so interesting
• 49:34
  because in movies, right, you think, you know, the
• 49:36
  battlefields, like in the middle of nowhere.
• 49:38
  And then you have like all these officers and they're like really
• 49:42
  nice uniform. But like the Manila and the
• 49:44
  Nanking incident, right? The two Asian countries.
• 49:48
  I mean, two Asian cities and they were like fighting in like
• 49:52
  in the cities and like, you know, where someone's
• 49:54
  convenience store was, where the gas station was and just had a
• 49:58
  total destruction. And so I think a lot of times
• 50:01
  when people are like trying to sell a war, they're not trying
• 50:04
  to sell the humanity or like who is going to get affected by the
• 50:07
  war or like where the money is going.
• 50:10
  Well, you can't because if you did, they know no one would
• 50:13
  participate in it. Tell them if you told them, are
• 50:19
  we going to war? You know, they got some valuable
• 50:21
  land that's worth a lot of money.
• 50:22
  Be like, well, I want to tell my kids to die because you want
• 50:24
  more money. I'm sorry.
• 50:25
  I'm not interested in that, you know.
• 50:27
  You saw this like meme on the Internet that's been like
• 50:31
  circulating lately. It's like America, census
• 50:33
  geologist, and it's all like the military.
• 50:37
  No, I haven't seen it. I haven't seen it, but I believe
• 50:41
  it. I saw the meme of the of the
• 50:43
  Israeli, Israeli, Palestinian conflict with two missiles and
• 50:48
  it's one of them is labeled our tax dollars.
• 50:50
  Another one is also somehow also our tax dollars.
• 50:52
  Yes. And they're both crashing into
• 50:54
  one another. And you just take, copy and
• 50:56
  paste that everywhere around the world.
• 50:58
  And that's what and that's what you get.
• 51:00
  And here. Like our country, the roads are
• 51:02
  not so great and our education is not doing so great and like a
• 51:06
  homeless problem, is off the hook.
• 51:09
  In America. Yeah, don't you think?
• 51:12
  I think that we have 10 to 15 massive countrywide issues that
• 51:20
  need to be seriously looked at and at least partially responded
• 51:26
  to before we continue minding anyone else's business, is what
• 51:28
  I think. Exactly, Yeah.
• 51:30
  I think that, and by the way, if we can rally and go ahead and
• 51:33
  do, but you know what, I, I also think that sometimes you get,
• 51:37
  especially when you're successful and powerful, you get
• 51:39
  complacent and you need to get knocked on your butt back in
• 51:42
  order to be able to learn sometimes.
• 51:43
  And unfortunately, if you're not going to learn from people
• 51:46
  talking about it and complaining about it and yelling about it
• 51:48
  and screaming about it, then you have to learn from experience.
• 51:50
  You know, I mean, it's the same thing with growing up, you know,
• 51:53
  like someone tells you, Hey, there's a real, you know, it's
• 51:55
  probably a good idea to do this and this and this in school or
• 51:58
  this and this and this internship and you're like, no,
• 52:00
  I know better than you. And you're like, Oh, man, maybe
• 52:02
  I don't, you know, but like, you learn one way or the other, and
• 52:05
  it's just better to learn the easy way.
• 52:06
  But if we have to learn the hard way, then it looks like that's
• 52:09
  what it might have to be, unfortunately.
• 52:11
  Yeah. You know, and I don't know what
• 52:12
  I'm going to do for my kids. I don't know where else they're
• 52:14
  going to go, you know? But I, you know, it's, it's it's
• 52:18
  it's scary. It's crazy.
• 52:20
  It is scary. It is crazy.
• 52:22
  And like politicians are OK with like starting wars.
• 52:28
  I'm being, I'll be OK if the politicians themselves are going
• 52:31
  to be like going out there and fighting themselves.
• 52:34
  But like, you know, when it ends up being like, you know, maybe
• 52:39
  potentially your kids fighting a war, right?
• 52:41
  And then like, and then it's just like all the sacrifice for
• 52:46
  the military industrial complex. And yeah, that's yeah, it's,
• 52:52
  it's just what it is. But and but.
• 52:55
  That's, but that's why we have these conversations.
• 52:57
  I think that's really valuable. And I think that, and I think
• 53:00
  that not only is it valuable, I think that more and more people
• 53:04
  are waking up to because I think that at a certain point you
• 53:10
  could, you could only gaslight so much, you know, one way or
• 53:14
  the other, you know, and we've been really living since World
• 53:18
  War 2IN times of gaslighting, you know, just constant.
• 53:21
  And, and I think that might be a consequence of the arrogance
• 53:28
  that is that is off. It's a product of success.
• 53:32
  You know, like you become success.
• 53:34
  If you think about it, America has not won the war in 80.
• 53:37
  Years World War 2. And World War 2.
• 53:41
  I have a theory that they won because China was holding the
• 53:44
  Japanese off for for like 10 years before America was holding
• 53:48
  was getting into the war. OK, so we want to tell me about
• 53:52
  that. We want to we want to dive into
• 53:54
  that history a little bit. Yeah.
• 53:56
  So Japan was occupying like Manchuria and then they were
• 54:00
  continued to fight in China. And in a sense, and when US sent
• 54:04
  China to supplies to fight Japan, it's because US saw
• 54:08
  Japan's ambition and knew that it was about to come to their
• 54:15
  come to their territory. And so then that's why they were
• 54:18
  like, OK, let's, let's supply China.
• 54:22
  And what's interesting is that if they weren't really and by
• 54:29
  1941, right, the Prince Konoway was trying to negotiate peace
• 54:37
  with the US and I but I think US who's.
• 54:41
  Prince Conway, from which country?
• 54:43
  From Japan and he was actually not like Prime Minister just
• 54:48
  once but like 3 times because the military saw him as like a
• 54:52
  spare tire to like drive them off the Cliff.
• 54:55
  And so that every single time he would like resign, then they
• 54:57
  would like come and bring him up.
• 54:59
  And then like, if he doesn't do what the military like fraction
• 55:04
  of the government wants him to do, then they threaten to kill
• 55:06
  him. So then he gets back to the to
• 55:08
  the to the wheel, I mean, to the truck.
• 55:13
  And then, yeah, he just had to. And right after the war, he
• 55:17
  committed suicide. And so before that, he wrote a
• 55:21
  memoir about how he was trying to negotiate out of having a
• 55:27
  having to attack US. And but he was ultimately
• 55:31
  unsuccessful because he was not as strong as the warthogs like
• 55:37
  Tojo. And I feel like when I was
• 55:39
  reading that, I was thinking, like, wow, this could be what's
• 55:42
  happening in Washington right now.
• 55:44
  Like these neocons and whatever are like driving other people
• 55:47
  out of like negotiations. So I, I mean, we def, I mean, as
• 55:52
  far as I believe there's been really, really good reporting
• 55:55
  about that happening with the Russia Ukraine war that every
• 55:58
  time it comes close to an end that some that some people come
• 56:01
  in and sabotage the peace efforts that are interested in
• 56:05
  continuing the war. But I think that I think that a
• 56:09
  hopeful component potentially is that, and I think this was a
• 56:15
  little bit of the, you know, you call them the, you know, the
• 56:18
  neocons or the military industrial complex as a
• 56:21
  political personifications. They because they're so
• 56:27
  unlikable and because they're such liars and because they've
• 56:30
  done such unpopular things their entire lives, the youth is not
• 56:35
  interested in them and they were never interested in giving up
• 56:38
  power. So they don't really have too
• 56:39
  many successors themselves. And I think that they're like
• 56:42
  the, the the neo con. And that's what we're seeing
• 56:44
  right now. I think in the American
• 56:45
  Republic, right, right right wing, you know, fractioning
• 56:49
  that's going on is that right now there's a huge vacuum
• 56:54
  because a lot of the people that were really heavily in, you
• 56:56
  know, that were huge influences in the last 2025 years are now
• 57:00
  getting older and becoming less relevant.
• 57:02
  And the youth does not, you know, at all relate to anything
• 57:05
  that they're talking about. But they don't have any young
• 57:07
  successors because they were too arrogant for those 2025 years to
• 57:11
  keep people, you know, to keep demote someone else.
• 57:14
  So I'm hoping I mean, and again, I'm an I'm an optimist and I'm
• 57:18
  because of that. I'm, I'm often wrong, you know,
• 57:21
  I'm often incorrect, but you know, that's OK because I think
• 57:25
  that. But what about the military?
• 57:28
  I mean profit. Think about how every successful
• 57:32
  company is like Bel Air was about to go bankrupt until we
• 57:36
  fought another war. So.
• 57:39
  Yeah, yeah. And that's the problem with this
• 57:41
  kind of government supported capitalism.
• 57:44
  I mean, and you don't even have to look at it from a military
• 57:46
  industrial camp, look at it from a freaking airplane, airliner,
• 57:50
  you know, perspective. Like there are certain airlines
• 57:52
  that have been bailed out, you know, time and time again that
• 57:54
  have no business still being in business, you know, and as far
• 57:57
  as the free market goes, it makes no sense that they're
• 58:00
  still around or banks that governments bail out or, you
• 58:03
  know, whatever, whatever it is like it true capitalism wouldn't
• 58:07
  allow those people to even survive.
• 58:09
  And then a better product would replace it or a more thoughtful
• 58:11
  product or whatever. But, and I mean, this is coming
• 58:15
  to the point of just absolute, you know, I'm just, I'm just
• 58:20
  hypothesizing and just talking over here.
• 58:22
  But I mean, when robotics and AI get to this to get to the point,
• 58:26
  and I'm sure you're probably have more of your finger on the
• 58:29
  pulse of this in San Francisco than I do in Florida.
• 58:31
  But when robotics and, and, and AI come together, labor and
• 58:38
  resources are going to be, are going to become significantly
• 58:42
  cheaper to the extent that I don't know what money is going
• 58:44
  to mean in 50 years from now. Like, I don't know what you
• 58:47
  know, and Elon Musk talks about it a little bit, but like, I
• 58:50
  mean, think about it. If you got to test the robot
• 58:52
  that cost $20,000 that had that that that has, you know, Grok
• 58:57
  incorporated into it and is your housekeeper and cooks meals and
• 59:01
  goes to the supermarket and your, you know, in your car.
• 59:03
  So. He can stop barking while I'm
• 59:05
  doing podcasts. And that and that's, you know,
• 59:09
  by the way, but it'll probably leave you to take care of your
• 59:11
  dog because that's something you want to do for the most part,
• 59:13
  you know, and you kind of pick and choose the things in life
• 59:15
  that you want to do. But I think that the only thing
• 59:18
  that's going to save America from total financial ruin is the
• 59:23
  potential explosion of, of, of, you know, of robotics and, and
• 59:28
  software. And if not, then I think we're
• 59:30
  just in big trouble. I think that's really what it
• 59:32
  is. Yeah, I.
• 59:33
  Don't know, but tell me about the quantum army.
• 59:37
  The quantum army, because we are digressing and it's fun, but I
• 59:40
  want to, I want to get into more into this.
• 59:42
  Yeah. So the quantum Army was the
• 59:45
  force that that planted a false flag on in Manchuria on
• 59:51
  September 18th and accused Chinese people of doing that.
• 59:56
  And so then they had the right to start a war.
• 59:59
  Like what we did with Vietnam? And it's actually interesting in
• 1:00:04
  Vietnam because and Ho Chi Minh was actually I, I saw some notes
• 1:00:10
  of Ho Chi Minh asking America for help during World War 2, but
• 1:00:14
  America decided to help the French and to column to
• 1:00:17
  recolonize them. But anyway, I digress.
• 1:00:20
  And so Quantum Army was really the beginning of World War 2 for
• 1:00:24
  China because they had taken over Manchuria.
• 1:00:28
  China had taken back over. No, I mean no.
• 1:00:31
  Sorry, just been taking Manchuria for China and now
• 1:00:33
  China's getting involved. So now and OK, gotcha.
• 1:00:37
  And what this and what was this? Army was actually a Japanese
• 1:00:39
  force that had taken over Manchuria, the Chinese
• 1:00:42
  territory. Yes.
• 1:00:44
  Did I not say that or did I say that wrong?
• 1:00:47
  I don't know. Anyway, it's like but.
• 1:00:50
  Thank you for clarifying because I'm sure I may have.
• 1:00:53
  So OK. And what was and so the point of
• 1:00:57
  the army was a false flag. Army was to was to create false
• 1:01:00
  flag was to create the false flag as an excuse to start to
• 1:01:02
  start. Invasion attack.
• 1:01:04
  Yes, OK, gotcha. And now what about what are some
• 1:01:08
  other war crimes that you that you've documented or, you know,
• 1:01:12
  uncovered? So many cannibalism is 1.
• 1:01:17
  They got to the point that they were just like eating other
• 1:01:20
  people. Yeah, actually, we're doing this
• 1:01:24
  podcast twice a month with James Bradley, and he wrote this book,
• 1:01:28
  this book named Fly Boys, and it's a story about how George
• 1:01:33
  Bush was flying into Chichi Jima and with like 9 other airmen and
• 1:01:38
  then eight other airmen, 8 other airmen were captured and eaten
• 1:01:43
  by the Japanese. And George Bush somehow narrowly
• 1:01:48
  escaped with like, a submarine that rescued him, and then he
• 1:01:52
  was out of there. But had he actually been eaten
• 1:01:55
  by the Japanese, history would have been so different.
• 1:01:58
  Whoa, was was this cannibalism out of necessity was where the
• 1:02:06
  Japanese star was? A part of also their culture of
• 1:02:09
  Bushido to eat a part of your enemy so then you can like gain
• 1:02:12
  their energy. OK.
• 1:02:14
  And so then they BBQ their liver and, and this, this story was so
• 1:02:20
  interesting because in like the 19, well, in, in 1990s, I think
• 1:02:27
  Iris Chan, the late Iris Chan wrote the rape of Nanking.
• 1:02:31
  And then someone called her about, Oh, I was in this war
• 1:02:34
  crime, secret war crime trial and, and, and Iris was like,
• 1:02:41
  this sounds way too crazy. Oh, James, why don't you go call
• 1:02:44
  him? So James and, and then went and
• 1:02:50
  visited the sky and then he like he was, he even brought George
• 1:02:56
  Bush to Chichi Jima to see if this was a real thing that had
• 1:03:00
  happened. And then it's been confirmed.
• 1:03:04
  And then he wrote the book and then HBO bought it as a part of
• 1:03:08
  the series on the Pacific. And so it's, it is a very
• 1:03:12
  fascinating and yet true story that they were doing this kind
• 1:03:16
  of cannibalism. And then there were also the
• 1:03:18
  issues of forced labor, because when Japan had taken over the
• 1:03:22
  Philippines, then they were having these people.
• 1:03:26
  But do baton death March and and it's.
• 1:03:31
  Great that that happens everywhere.
• 1:03:33
  Yeah, you know, it. It just feels like it was
• 1:03:35
  normal, like practice, like, you know, it's.
• 1:03:37
  Just normal, standard everyday thing when you're fighting a
• 1:03:42
  war. You never know if someone's
• 1:03:43
  going to walk into town and make you do forced labor in death
• 1:03:45
  marches, you know, I mean, you never know.
• 1:03:47
  It just might. It just might happen, you know?
• 1:03:49
  It's yeah. OK, and and it's interesting
• 1:03:53
  because because Japan never ratified the Geneva Convention.
• 1:03:58
  So when they were shipping these PO WS, they never really marked
• 1:04:02
  the ship. And so then the like the Allied
• 1:04:06
  forces didn't know what was happening with these ships and a
• 1:04:10
  lot of them were struck by friendly fire.
• 1:04:13
  So for example, like the Lisbon Maru that I recently watched a
• 1:04:17
  movie on, it was struck by by friendly fire.
• 1:04:23
  And, well, you know, the fire is not too friendly if it's going
• 1:04:27
  to kill you. Yeah.
• 1:04:30
  Not too friendly. And the Japanese were then, you
• 1:04:33
  know, barring people from escaping the deck and like, and
• 1:04:39
  so then people just all died in well, and then also when two
• 1:04:44
  people were trying to escape, they had like 6 suicide officers
• 1:04:48
  that stayed in the ship and like tried to gun down everyone while
• 1:04:52
  going down with the ship. These were like fanatic times
• 1:04:55
  that these people were fighting this war.
• 1:04:58
  And what was the so interesting? What was the rationale for this
• 1:05:05
  war? Like World War, like Europe, I
• 1:05:09
  guess had a rationale for a war. What was the rationale leading
• 1:05:15
  up to all this Was just, this was just Asian politics and
• 1:05:18
  Asian, you know, just war, history of war, the habit of
• 1:05:23
  resources. So it's about resource, but
• 1:05:25
  coincided just happens to be the same time as World War 2.
• 1:05:30
  I think it has to do with economic issue because also at
• 1:05:33
  the time, like like when after Quantum Army had taken over
• 1:05:37
  Manchuria, they were having propaganda that said that, OK,
• 1:05:41
  there are 100 million Japanese. It's actually not true.
• 1:05:44
  I think it's more like 80 million Japanese.
• 1:05:47
  And we are running out of space in our Japanese mainland.
• 1:05:51
  So we need to expand. And so then they were having
• 1:05:55
  these policies for these Japanese settlers to go to China
• 1:06:00
  and take over these Chinese people's farmers land and kick
• 1:06:04
  them out of their Chinese and take kick them out of their own
• 1:06:07
  farmland. So I think that's interesting
• 1:06:10
  that and I think it was mostly economics because by the time
• 1:06:14
  that they had attacked Pearl Harbor, it was because Roosevelt
• 1:06:18
  was going to embargo on oil. And so then they needed
• 1:06:21
  Southeast Asia for oil and rubber.
• 1:06:25
  And so a lot of it had to do with economics.
• 1:06:29
  Right, but the economic issues happened to occur at the same
• 1:06:37
  time as World War 2 was just happening in the rest of the
• 1:06:39
  world. I think it was boiling up
• 1:06:43
  because remember what I was saying?
• 1:06:45
  Like from 19? Oh.
• 1:06:46
  Five. Yeah, the early. 90s, yeah.
• 1:06:47
  And then they see that, you know, it was and that the rest
• 1:06:53
  of Europe was busy fighting a war and Europeans had power, I
• 1:06:58
  mean, had colonies also in Southeast Asia.
• 1:07:00
  So I think part of it is also opportunist.
• 1:07:04
  Right, right, right. And what was everyone?
• 1:07:05
  That's a great point. Like you just see that
• 1:07:07
  everything is on fire and while I was distracted, you just take
• 1:07:09
  advantage. Right.
• 1:07:11
  While your town is on fire, you might as well go and steal your
• 1:07:14
  neighbor's TV. A little too a little too, too
• 1:07:20
  true for San Francisco, I feel like.
• 1:07:23
  I know. So how?
• 1:07:26
  Are you on social media that like, you know, while there's
• 1:07:29
  like a riot, then there's like, they're like running into the
• 1:07:32
  liquor store to steal things out of a liquor store in Oakland?
• 1:07:35
  It's like crazy. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:38
  How long are you living in San Francisco for?
• 1:07:41
  Since I was 10 actually, but I went.
• 1:07:43
  To like your whole high school. Yeah, almost.
• 1:07:45
  Yeah, 2/3 of my life. I think it needs change.
• 1:07:51
  It needs some change, yeah. How long have you been in
• 1:07:55
  Florida for? I've been in Florida for four
• 1:07:58
  years. I've been I'm from New York
• 1:08:01
  originally. So I spent the 1st 20 years of
• 1:08:04
  my life in New York, 18 years of my life in New York.
• 1:08:07
  I spent a year and a half in Israel studying there Jewish and
• 1:08:13
  I spent some time there and then I, I spent some time in Seattle,
• 1:08:16
  I mentioned. And then and then I came and
• 1:08:19
  then I ended up there was no Jewish girls there or very few
• 1:08:22
  Jewish girls there for me. So I moved back to, to New York
• 1:08:26
  for a little bit till I met my wife and we moved down to
• 1:08:29
  Florida from here. But the, you know, I mean, we'll
• 1:08:33
  see what happens. As far as you know, we're not
• 1:08:35
  married to Florida. We're married to one another.
• 1:08:37
  So it's funny. So I mean, we can go anywhere,
• 1:08:39
  but we like you here, I've been seeing.
• 1:08:42
  These memes of like Florida, people saying like, oh, we're,
• 1:08:46
  we're too full for New Yorkers. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
• 1:08:49
  And you know what? Unfortunately, I kind of get
• 1:08:51
  caught up in that because I am one of the New Yorkers coming
• 1:08:53
  down, but I happen to be one of the nice New Yorkers, so they
• 1:08:56
  don't have a problem with me, as far as I know.
• 1:08:58
  But you never know what was. You never know.
• 1:09:03
  But you know what? Because it's so funny.
• 1:09:04
  But people, there's something so powerful about the magic of San
• 1:09:10
  Francisco that like, people really are not willing to give
• 1:09:13
  up on it. Like, no matter what, you know,
• 1:09:15
  like, no matter what it feels like, you know, like it's crazy
• 1:09:20
  What, it's crazy what it's turned into the last couple of
• 1:09:22
  years. And people, people still love it
• 1:09:24
  there. And people still like, they're
• 1:09:25
  not going as far as I know, are they?
• 1:09:30
  That's a very controversial topic, I feel like.
• 1:09:33
  Is it? We're here, we are talking about
• 1:09:35
  war crime, but I'm like, Oh my gosh, people are not giving up
• 1:09:38
  on my in laws. Would never give up on San
• 1:09:41
  Francisco. I feel like they're like, oh,
• 1:09:42
  it's just like that in the 70s and they would turn around and
• 1:09:46
  blah, blah, blah. So yeah.
• 1:09:49
  I had, what do you call it? I'd only, and I'd only recently
• 1:09:52
  discovered I did an episode. You know, I was also thinking
• 1:09:55
  because I'm a big Grateful Dead hippie fan and, and I was, and I
• 1:10:00
  and I read a book that had tied and I didn't even realize that
• 1:10:05
  this was, and this actually, this actually what got me
• 1:10:07
  interested in geography to begin with.
• 1:10:09
  It tied in Asian culture to San Francisco and that it was that,
• 1:10:15
  you know, and, and the first there was the school of Chinese
• 1:10:20
  culture. I think maybe I forgot the art
• 1:10:24
  school of Chinese culture. Yeah, it's, I think Islam.
• 1:10:28
  Wow. But it's also very interesting
• 1:10:30
  because the 1882 had a lot of to do with San Francisco as well,
• 1:10:35
  because Chinese people were mining gold at a faster rate
• 1:10:38
  than the white people. Better workers as far as you.
• 1:10:42
  Know and Lincoln was like desperate to build this rail
• 1:10:47
  world to to go to the West to the Pacific so then he can go
• 1:10:52
  trade with China so it's and Marco Polo in like the 1200 was
• 1:10:57
  talking about how Chinese people have paper currency now and we
• 1:11:02
  need to get there and blah blah blah so.
• 1:11:04
  Wow, exactly for a while. Yeah, and but China
• 1:11:07
  unfortunately just faced the century of humiliation with with
• 1:11:13
  drug addiction. Yeah.
• 1:11:16
  And but now we're seeing really a resurgence of China in the
• 1:11:22
  21st century. And there are really a people of
• 1:11:25
  to like mind their own business, I think.
• 1:11:27
  And just they were just doing their country first before
• 1:11:31
  getting intervene, I mean, before intervening with like all
• 1:11:35
  over the world and spreading democracy and whatnot.
• 1:11:38
  Yeah. And and like we mentioned, I
• 1:11:40
  think while we were talking about on our introduction
• 1:11:43
  introductory call, you know, the Chinese are doing enormous
• 1:11:47
  amount of the business and investment around the world that
• 1:11:51
  America used was doing for a long time.
• 1:11:53
  And again, part of the way that we America spread their empire
• 1:11:56
  was financial. And I'm actually hopefully doing
• 1:12:00
  an episode soon about China's relationship with Africa
• 1:12:04
  nowadays and you know, and what's and their investment
• 1:12:07
  there and what they have to what they stand to gain out of it and
• 1:12:10
  whether America's involved at all there.
• 1:12:12
  If we're trying to be even. I don't, I don't know anything
• 1:12:14
  about it. I.
• 1:12:14
  Don't know if you watched this like one video of like Kamala
• 1:12:17
  was trying to go into this African stadium and he started
• 1:12:23
  trying to bashing and then they were and then the host was like
• 1:12:26
  this stadium is built by Chinese money and blah blah blah and ask
• 1:12:31
  her to leave if she doesn't want to stay.
• 1:12:34
  Wow, I didn't. I did not see that.
• 1:12:38
  But yeah, I think, wow, Western media really does bar people
• 1:12:42
  from like, getting the real information out there in this
• 1:12:45
  world. Yeah, yeah, we're very.
• 1:12:48
  Eurocentric. We're not, we're not even
• 1:12:51
  Eurocentric. We're American centric.
• 1:12:53
  I, I mean, I cannot tell you how little most people and I teach
• 1:12:58
  high school and I've got, I'm the oldest of 6 and I'm 30,
• 1:13:01
  right. So, I mean, I've got to quit.
• 1:13:03
  You know, I've got a little bit of my finger on the pulse of the
• 1:13:05
  younger generation. They don't know anything about
• 1:13:08
  Europe. They, they, they barely know
• 1:13:09
  anything about America. They really do.
• 1:13:11
  They, you know, that the, I think that one thing that China
• 1:13:14
  has done more successfully than America, at least in the last
• 1:13:17
  several dozen decades, is that Americans don't value education
• 1:13:22
  or teachers at all. And I've heard that China does
• 1:13:26
  more or a lot more. And, and we don't have, we
• 1:13:30
  don't, you know, I mean, we look at it, if you say, if you tell
• 1:13:33
  someone I'm a high school teacher, they're like, that
• 1:13:35
  sucks. You know, like that's, that's
• 1:13:37
  usually what the response is. They don't say, wow, you're
• 1:13:39
  forging the next generation. And, and you know, in the youth
• 1:13:42
  of tomorrow that that, that, that are going to be in the
• 1:13:44
  workforce and the scientists and the engineers and, and the next
• 1:13:48
  scientists and sorry, and the next teachers and politicians,
• 1:13:51
  like you're the person shaping them and like, and we just need
• 1:13:55
  to care about that. I mean it, it, it's wild to me,
• 1:13:58
  you know, and. It is wild.
• 1:14:00
  There's a Jewish author from from the 8th, from the 19th
• 1:14:04
  century Germany that said that said that to him, all the
• 1:14:10
  world's problems comes down to issue with education.
• 1:14:14
  You know, like education can fix everything.
• 1:14:17
  If you just give people the right context and and and
• 1:14:20
  everyone can learn to speak one another's language, then a lot
• 1:14:23
  of our issues would just fall apart right away.
• 1:14:26
  Exactly, and I really appreciate your podcast because I think it
• 1:14:30
  really educate the general public and to share, you know,
• 1:14:34
  things as we're learning together.
• 1:14:36
  And I think I discovered your episode when you were
• 1:14:40
  interviewing the UN one of. The John Perkins, yes, he, yeah,
• 1:14:44
  yeah, yeah, that's right. That economic hitman.
• 1:14:46
  Yeah. That, that was interesting
• 1:14:50
  because that's also very similar to like Prince Konoway for like
• 1:14:53
  negotiation with like Pearl Harbor and whatnot.
• 1:14:56
  He did. He did a few episodes, a few
• 1:14:59
  other big podcasts that were much longer than mine.
• 1:15:02
  I hope to do another one with him.
• 1:15:03
  But he did a couple of like 3 hour ones with Danny Jones and
• 1:15:06
  Patrick Bet David and oh he's. Like a Joe Rogan.
• 1:15:12
  The the which one? John Perkins is like a Joe
• 1:15:15
  Rogan. If he was, I'd have a lot more
• 1:15:19
  viewers than now. But if he also was, he wouldn't
• 1:15:24
  have gone back to me. So, you know, but can I, can I
• 1:15:27
  actually ask real quickly, because I don't really know
• 1:15:30
  anything about this. What was China's, you mentioned
• 1:15:32
  this earlier in passing, but China's relationship or I guess
• 1:15:35
  the East relationship with Russia during, during all this
• 1:15:39
  or the USSR, do they have any relationship with it?
• 1:15:42
  You know, I with a, with a conflicting with one another.
• 1:15:45
  What were things like there? Well, Russia had gone into like
• 1:15:50
  if you look, if you go to Harbin, there's like a big
• 1:15:55
  Jewish and Russia or Soviet, I mean Russia influence because
• 1:16:02
  right after the revolution, a lot of the people who were
• 1:16:07
  escaping the revolution and up in Harbin.
• 1:16:11
  Where's that? That was in Manchuria.
• 1:16:14
  Gotcha. So like that area.
• 1:16:16
  And so I feel like Chinese people mostly mind their own
• 1:16:21
  business. Yeah.
• 1:16:27
  Yeah. And it's mostly economically,
• 1:16:30
  it's mostly economic interest. For example, Russia have built
• 1:16:35
  that real world just for trade purpose and whatnot.
• 1:16:38
  So yeah. Yeah, Yeah, that's what I'm
• 1:16:42
  finding. I mean, I'm finding that most
• 1:16:43
  people just want to mind their own business and, you know, try
• 1:16:46
  to like be with their families and try to just be happy, you
• 1:16:51
  know, be comfortable, you know, have what they need and have
• 1:16:53
  what they have and, and to just live a good, meaningful life.
• 1:16:56
  You know, I think that's what really like, I think that
• 1:16:59
  listen, you go to Wisconsin, you go to Iowa and you go to, I
• 1:17:02
  mean, even if you go upstate New York, I mean you go, if you go a
• 1:17:04
  couple, you know, you go 203040 miles north of you.
• 1:17:07
  I'm sure that most of the people there are just regular people
• 1:17:10
  that just want to live their lives.
• 1:17:11
  You know, they and like, you know, maybe they have political
• 1:17:13
  opinions, maybe they don't care about politics, maybe they don't
• 1:17:15
  care, you know, maybe they're interested in war or not.
• 1:17:17
  But like, at the end of the day, like, what's right in front of
• 1:17:20
  you is right in front of you. And the most pressing part of
• 1:17:22
  your. They have money in their
• 1:17:23
  Vanguard account. They're interested in war
• 1:17:25
  because that's going to mean that their stocks going to go
• 1:17:28
  up. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:17:31
  That that's the other thing that China, that that China does
• 1:17:34
  better. Who was I talking to about this?
• 1:17:37
  I think that we put so much pressure on ourselves to act so
• 1:17:40
  short term, you know, our quarterly earnings and what's
• 1:17:44
  our stocks you're at right now and you know and it dipped.
• 1:17:47
  What's the next election going to look like?
• 1:17:49
  Four years, right? Yeah, by the way, you get in and
• 1:17:52
  then it takes a year for the president to figure out what's
• 1:17:54
  going on. And then he tries to do
• 1:17:56
  something and then at that point it's the midterms.
• 1:17:57
  And after that he has to either go out for re election or he's
• 1:18:00
  already out the door and like nothing get done.
• 1:18:03
  You know, I mean, it's really, and on one hand it's in one
• 1:18:05
  hand, it's a beautiful thing because it really does prevent
• 1:18:08
  from both the right and the left a lot of more damage that I
• 1:18:12
  think could have been done by because what I think that.
• 1:18:16
  A lot of presidents are working for the people who are not even
• 1:18:19
  elected. That's right.
• 1:18:20
  That's right. For example, in the World War 2
• 1:18:23
  context, the China lobby, right? They were making money out of
• 1:18:27
  USDA contracts and they were lobbying FDR and most people
• 1:18:33
  didn't even know that they existed.
• 1:18:35
  Yeah, yeah, that's crazy. That's crazy.
• 1:18:38
  I wonder how much of that still goes on that we just, you know,
• 1:18:40
  that just swept under the rug or kept hush hush, you know.
• 1:18:44
  But the problem is that it's everywhere.
• 1:18:45
  I mean, everywhere. You freaking Anything that has a
• 1:18:47
  regulation, anything that has any kind of formal
• 1:18:50
  representation has corruption, period.
• 1:18:52
  You know. And so like, at a certain point,
• 1:18:54
  the question isn't like looking for something that isn't
• 1:18:57
  corrupt. The question just is who are the
• 1:19:01
  honest people that I could deal with, you know, and that's
• 1:19:02
  really the question. Yeah.
• 1:19:04
  Because you're never going to get rid of corruption.
• 1:19:07
  And I mean, as much as you would like to, you can spend your life
• 1:19:10
  fighting corruption, which you'll just do to the day you
• 1:19:12
  die. And then the day you die,
• 1:19:14
  someone else would have to pick up and do it also because it's
• 1:19:16
  never gonna end. But yeah, it's, it's
• 1:19:22
  fascinating. On that note, I'm going to cook
• 1:19:25
  dinner, OK? Thank you so much for doing
• 1:19:28
  this. This is such a pleasure.
• 1:19:31
  This was a lot of information and a lot of really great
• 1:19:34
  information, and you want to tell people again just where to
• 1:19:37
  find your organization and how they could follow you.
• 1:19:43
  Yeah, pacificatrocities.org. And if you are on YouTube,
• 1:19:49
  please hit subscribe for Pacific Front Untold.
• 1:19:53
  Pacific Front and Toad Toad. No untold.
• 1:19:57
  Untold gotcha, yes. OK.
• 1:19:59
  Gotcha. Beautiful.
• 1:20:00
  Jenny, this is so much fun. Thanks so much.
• 1:20:02
  Have a wonderful night. Take care.
• 1:20:04
  Bye bye.