Latest / Drama, Darling: A Real Housewives Comedy Podcast / 📱Unknown Number Collab with Your Bish Therapist (Trigger Warning)

Transcript

📱Unknown Number Collab with Your Bish Therapist (Trigger Warning) · Drama, Darling: A Real Housewives Comedy Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Drama Darling.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: Drama, Darling Drama Darling. Hi, friends, and welcome to a
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: very special collaboration with yours truly, your bish therapist and
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: our dear friend, Amy Phillips.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Hello, everybody, it's a bish therapist, your bish therapist, and
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: drama Darling collaboration extraordinary today. Hi Melissa, I'm so excited.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Hi Amy, I.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Am very very excited. Amy messaged me about unknown Number,
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: which is what we're going to cover today, And when
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: you texted me that, my head exploded in excitement because
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: I watched it and it was one of those things
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: that I felt really compelled and fascinated by. And so
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: I have four pages of notes and I could talk
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: about this for twenty years.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Well, I just feel like really appreciative that you kind
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: of like let me behind the curtain of the euro
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: bish therapist oz that you've created, because guys, she sent
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: me her notes. Okay, so jealous, and so I am.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: It's just fun to see how your brain works. And
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: I've never I have us seen more organized notes in
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: my life. So pumprehis problem, Well, I wish I had
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: that problem. This is amazing. Okay. Well, I just feel
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: like I am you know, on the vander Pump Rules.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: How Tom Sandoval has that motorcycle with a sidecar. Yes, yes, okay,
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: well just picture me in the sidecar. I am Tom
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Schwartz and unfortunately you are Tom Zanaval in the scenario,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: and it's going to be all about you, and I'm
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: going to be riding along with you, going, oh, bubba,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: you're doing great. Bubbah yeah babba, turn right. So unknown
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: number now, yes, I have one interesting to say, one
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: interesting one interesting thing to say about this. I have
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: one interesting thing to say about this, and that is
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: this that About a year ago, Lisa Renna starred in
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: a movie on Lifetime called Mommy Meanest, Mommy Meanest, You're
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: such a podcaster now you're like you're like not talking
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: over me, You're like not in your head. You're so funny.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: So yeah, she started in this movie and it's based
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: it's roughly loosely based on this story. So I had
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: we watched that for my Drama Darling podcast. It was
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: a Patreon exclusive, and uh I did this with Jamie
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Moyer and Angela Quintana and we just had a blast
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: recapping Mommy Meanist. It was so fun. Lisa Renna was
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: excellent and we had a great time with that. So
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: that was my first foray into this story because I
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: knew it was loosely based on this woman. And that
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: being said, you can check that out on my Patreon,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: patreon dot com slash drama Darling. But also, I'm from Michigan,
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: so I don't like that Michigan is being represented in
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: this way as Kendra is from Michigan. So I apologize
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: to everyone for that. But Michigan is a great place
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: to be.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: All right, it really is. As a Midwestern gal, I
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: can attest to that. This is a very usually I
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: feel like people in the Midwest are very wonderful and
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: friendly and cordial. So this woman does not represent us, y'all.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: Just to be really clear about that, and listen, Amy,
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: I'm happy to have you in the sidecar. But let
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: me ask you a quick question. The Mommy Meanest So
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: someone just talked about that on Jeff Lewis Live. I
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: think it was Ryan Bailey, and they said that that
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: it wasn't the best movie was your dare of Mommy?
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: How dare?
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: How dare? He?
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: Uh?
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: I thought, Look, he's obviously not a lifetime movie connoisseur.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: Thank you, connoisseur or anyone who's gonna He clearly doesn't
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: appreciate the goal that's before him. So I don't know
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: what kind of rating scale he's on, but it's not mine. So,
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, I thought it was great. Obviously, it's a
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: crazy story, so that in and of itself made it
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: a very good lifetime movie. You know that it was
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: based on so I mean, and Lisa Renna being in
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: it was so fascinating, so I loved it.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, Lisa Renna is sincerely just a great actress.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: She really is. I didn't love her on Housewives, but
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: I love her in a good lifetime movie, especially the
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: one that she did with Harry where he was like
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: a sex addict. I don't remember what the name of
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: that movie was. Oh, I didn't see that in the movie. Yeah, oh,
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: and Harry Hamlin played a sex addict and she was
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: like this long suffering wife and it was it was
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: a very interesting movie. Of course, I can't remember the name.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: So sure it's probably called sex Addict. My husband, My husband,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: my husband, the sex Addict. But you know, yeah, I
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: think she's a great lifetime movie actress, and I really
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: appreciate that, and she's a great actress on the Real
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: Housewives of Beverly Hills. Ha ha. Okay, so all right,
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: let's get into unknown number.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, let me let me give you all a little
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: synopsis because and here's what I have to say at
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: the top. If anyone has not watched this, this contains spoilers,
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: Like immediately, we're gonna have to talk about what the
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: twist is, because to talk about this episode, we have
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: to really talk about, you know, the twist.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: And if you if please go watch it. And if
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: you don't know anything about it, I am so jealous
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: because it'll be ann believable reveal.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. I mean I had to watch it
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: twice after I did. I watched it the first time
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: on the edge of my seat, and then after the reveal,
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: I was like, I have to watch this again from
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: a new lens, And yeah, of course I did. And
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: I have a lot to say about that. So tune
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: out or go watch it if you don't want spoilers,
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: and then come back, because the one thing about this
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: show is they missed the opportunity to have a professional
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: talk about the psychological concepts, which are there's just so
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: many throughout this whole documentary, and I'm like, that was
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: such a missed opportunity.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Did you call Melissa? I yes, I completely agree. I
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: didn't even think about it. I just immediately thought, I've
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: got to talk to Melissa. We got to hear what
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: she has to say. And So this is not the
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: official Companion podcast to Unknown Number, but I'd like to
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: say it's the official Companion podcast two Unknown Number on Yeah, Netflix, Netflix, Okay, flex,
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I shall not wait to hear what you
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: have to say about our Kendra No boy.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: So here's the synopsis for people who would like that.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: This is a true story of Lauren Lacari, featured in
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: Netflix's Unknown Number The High School Catfish. It does take
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: place in Beal City, Michigan, and the timeline is from
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: October twenty twenty to April twenty twenty three that all
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: this was happening. Thirteen year old Lauren and her boyfriend
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: Owen McKinney were cyber bullied via an unknown number for
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: basically two years. After school administrators and local police could
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: not solve the crime, the FBI were able to solve it,
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: and we're able to link an IP address to the
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: phone number belonging to a shocking culprit which turns out
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: to be Da Da Da Lauren's mother. Can the mother mother,
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: the mother of the girl who this was happening to.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: And the reason why that we have to say that
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: immediately is that one thing about this documentary that bothered
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: me straight off the top is once you find out
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: that it was her mother, and you go back through
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: those disgusting texts, the sexual texts, all these things, it
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: is really clear to me that this is a case
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: where because she's a woman, she's getting special treatment and
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: she's not getting held accountable in ways that really personally
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: bug me.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, I have the same thought.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: Because here's the thing amy as a mom, right, it's like,
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: you couldn't even imagine something like this happening to your child,
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: let alone being the one to portrayed it. And so
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: I feel like what I'm going to talk a lot
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: about today is what we see and my interpretation of
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: what I think is going on with Kendra, because in
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: my opinion, whoever produced this documentary had gave her far
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: too much grace, and I would argue that if she
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: were a man sending these sexually harassing texts to thirteen
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: year old children, do we understand these children were thirteen
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: and fourteen years old. Okay, it's not like they were
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: nineteen twenty. I mean even then, it's disgusting.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So she's sending.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: Right, right, and so I think that just at the top,
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: I'll say, my beef too is with Netflix in terms of, like,
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: you know, this woman I believe is a predator. She's
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: extremely manipulative. She has a very colorful psychological profile, which
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: I'm you know, going to kind of lay out for everybody,
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: but to give you to break it down a little
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: bit more so the messages started. Owen and Lauren started
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: receiving the messages in October of twenty twenty, and Lauren
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: and Owen were like the quintessential you know couple in
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: terms of, like I think they met in junior high.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: They were friends you know, since like childhood, and they
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: just had this really sweet love which again it's like
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: everything about this case, there's just layers and layers of awfulness. Right,
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: So Lauren and Owen so sweet. They have this relationship,
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: and then one day October twenty twenty, they start getting
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: these wild harassing texts. Now, initially the texts were they
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: would happen consistently, but then there was a period where
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: they went away for eleven months.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Right, And I wanted to ask and you can answer
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: this later, but just putting that in here for the break.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: You know, obviously why was there a break? And I'm
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: just wondering, was she on medication before this and then
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: like she stopped and then she started these texts and
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: then then when there was the break, did she get
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: back on medication? And then did she get back off
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: of medication which is why she started again? So you
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: can throw that in and answer that later, But that's okay.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, here's the thing. My immediate thought is that
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: what I'm seeing with this woman is a pervasive pattern
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: of clinically significant markers that I don't think have anything
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: to do with medication or non medication, to be.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Honest, Oh my god, really yeah, I don't think so.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: Like this type of personality disorder or whatever it is,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: the psychosis that it is cannot be fixed with a medication.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: So her not not this level of behavior, this predatory, manipulative,
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: narcissistic behavior, No medication would not. Like people who have
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: narcissistic personality disorder, for example, it's hard to treat because
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: medication is not typically something that is effective. Yeah, and
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: it's something that you know, people need to want to
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: come in and get the help that they need. And
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: let me be clear at the top of the episode,
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: as everybody knows, our darling Vish is no, I am
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: not Kendra's therapist. I don't know this family. I am
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: not diagnosing her. I am making my best assessments based
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: on her personality type things I've seen in clinical practice.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: And then there were a couple of things throughout the
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: documentary that with my eagle eye I could find things
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: to kind of back up what I was saying, some
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: things that came out of her own mouth.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: So okay, all right.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: So but it's a good question Amy that you post nevertheless,
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: which is it started and then it stopped for eleven months?
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: So what on earth was happening in those eleven months
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: with this woman that she was just like went off
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: the grid and then she started back up. And here's
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: what's very interesting to me in terms of the timeline
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: that I wrote down after she started back up, texting
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: and harassing her child and her child's boyfriend. When she
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: started back up, she was very over focused on Lauren
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: and Owen's relationship. So initially the texts were, you know,
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: just like horrible and stupid, like you know, he doesn't
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: want to be with you, and you suck and all
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: these other things.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: Breaking up the right, Yeah.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: But the really really egregious messages, which I will also
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: give a trigger warning because some of the messages she
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: sent were encouraging self harm and suicide. So I just
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: want to be really clear that that's something that we're
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: going to be talking about too at the top. And
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: so when Kendra starts back up after the eleven months,
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: very over focused on their relationship. And then Lauren and
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: Owen got to the point where they actually did break
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: up because they were literally being harassed and they thought, well,
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: maybe if we give this person what they want, they'll
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: go away. And so what's interesting is after the breakup,
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: the messages got even worse. And that's when Kendra started
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: cyberbullying her daughter into telling her an I quote, kill
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: yourself now, bitch, You are worthless and mean nothing. His
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: life would be better if if you were dead. You
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: are the ugliest person I've ever seen. Okay, this is
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: what this mother was sending to her daughter.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: And I have no idea to me shocking to even
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: be talking about it and re experiencing the weight of
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: how beyond comprehension this is your timeline is amazing. Please
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: pretend I said nothing, go on, Okay.
• 15:32
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• 16:54
  Speaker 2: And so, but what one thing that the timeline helped
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: me figure out is do so what we see here
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: is a behavioral escalation, right, we see an escalation of behaviors,
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: which is going to be important. And so after fifteen months,
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: the police, local police got involved, and of course, you know,
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: here's the funny thing, and this is for people maybe
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: who you haven't watched it. Here's why this was a
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: twist because the documentary starts out with Kendra just talking
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: about we went to the school and we were upset
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: they weren't doing enough and blah blah blah blah blah,
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: and then it's like and then so producers lead you
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: to believe that this is just like a mother who's
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: upset for her child. And then at the end that's
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: when you get the real story from Kendra and Lauren
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: and Lauren's father and it does. I felt as an
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: audience member, I felt duped and I felt really angry. Yes,
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: is that how you felt as well?
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Well, you didn't know going into it what this story was, correct,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: I mean you had heard Oh my gosh, Melissa, I
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: can't even imagine that your list have experienced. Okay, I did.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: I already knew that it was the mother based on
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: the Mommy Meanas thing, and I knew about the story,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: so I did not know how absolutely tremendously awful those
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: text messages were. And I also thought at that time,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: because in Mommy Mianus, she's setting up bots to write
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: these messages. So when I'm watching this movie, the documentary,
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I was thinking that she's programmed bots to
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: send these messages. I never thought for a second that
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: they were coming from her, that she was authoring them.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: And so that is the reveal that blew my ever
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: loving mind that it wasn't a bunch of computers doing
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: this or a bunch of phones set up to harass.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: They were curated by her. But when you asked me,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: did I know? I knew ultimately that it was the mother,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: But when I was watching it, I had to question
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: myself whether or not I even knew the real story,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: because I'm like, there's no way that she's in this documentary.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: That's right, And you think to yourself, why the hell
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: did this predator get the opportunity to pretend for the
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: first hour of this movie that she was not involved?
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: I didn't like that. Wow, everything about this as a therapist,
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: as a woman who loves children and my niece is
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: a nephew, as a person in the world, I just thought,
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: whoever did this dropped the ball so hard that I
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: had a hard time getting over it.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Wow, I had a hard good point. Yeah, that's a
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: great point. So anyway, now I'm pissed.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: I think, you know, and I went on read it,
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: and obviously social media and a lot of people feel
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: the same way we do in terms of like, why
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: was she given this opportunity to lie and tell this
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: revisionist story, which, as I watched it again, that's what
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: royally pissed me off when I watched it the second time,
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: because I knew since I knew, and then I'm watching
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: it and I'm like, I don't like that she was
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: given this grace. Again, if she were a man who
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: were sending thirteen year old children, especially harassing text. Do
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: you think they would have said, Okay, sir, let's just
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: pretend for an hour that you're not the culprit, right, Okay,
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna stop.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: For I don't. I don't. There's no way they would
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: have It's our culture wouldn't have been able to handle that.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: And yet that's exactly the woman. We were able to
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: handle that, so much so that I was pissed as
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: it is, and I didn't even notice. I didn't even
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: think about the level and which how wrong it was
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: to do what they did by allowing her to be there. Okay, Yeah, So.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: I think it just speaks to when women have cited pathology.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: So psychopathology is a broad term. For you know, when
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: you hear the term sociopath psychopath, what that is is
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: saying is that people who have kind of antisocial personality disorder.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: The one characteristic of sociopathy is lack of empathy. And
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: I think, you know, for me, the one thing. You know,
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: we're going to go into the why in a minute,
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: but for me, that's one thing I really want people
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: to pay attention to as I'm talking about all of
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: this stuff, right, Like, how little empathy you would have
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: to experience for another person to perpetrate these crimes for
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: years and years on end. I just want people to
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: keep that in the back of their brain.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: So the FBI finally got involved after local police couldn't
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: figure it out. And the reason local police couldn't figure
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: it out is because Kendra is an extraordinarily good manipulator.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: Women definitely tend to get away with more than men
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: when they have psychopathology because they can be more sympathetic
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: to the untrained eye, and in fact, when they're at
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: the end. You see the bodycam footage of when the
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: local police went to talk to her and they gave
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: her graces that no person on earth would have received.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Now, was that was that for the purpose of getting
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: a confession out of her?
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: I don't think. So, Okay, here, you know, I'll tell Okay,
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: let's go back to that, because I don't want to
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: get everyone confused and be all over the place.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: We can hit that later, okay, Okay.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: So then in April twenty six, twenty twenty three, Kendra
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: did go to court and was sentenced for two counts
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: of stalking a minor only and August eighth, for she
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: was released from jail and now she is just living
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: in the world absolutely no consequences. And this is to
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: me is a psychologically dangerous person who she'll get herself
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: in trouble again. I don't know how, but someone of
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: this level who does things like this again, if she
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: were a man, I think it'd be treated more seriously.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Why isn't she on Megan's law? Why isn't she a
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: sexual predator? Like so let's get into kind of not
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: only exactly what she did, but I also made a
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: list of other things that Kendra did, which because it
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: speaks to her pathology. Right, So, not only did she
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: send all these texts, which some of them will read
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: in just a minute, she lost both of her jobs
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: and didn't have a job for a full year, but
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: was lying to her husband and her family that she
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: was working. That's super significant. What are you doing with
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: your time? And I wonder if that has something to
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: do with the eleven months of gap. I don't completely know.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: She also Kendra framed and harassed Laurence friends and classmates,
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: Adriana Owen Chloe. She ruined these children's lives. It wasn't
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: just her daughter, and it wasn't just her daughter's boyfriend.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Remember she framed a girl on the basketball team, she
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: set up another one of her friends. Of course, she's
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: sexually harassed underage children, which again it makes me rage
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: that she was not given consequences for this. And the
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: last thing she did was she made a false insurance
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: claim that her house had been hit by lightning, and
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: then she just went ahead. Classic Kendra. She went ahead
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: and pocketed that money and then stopped paying the bills,
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: which led the family to get evicted, which is also
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: known as financial abuse.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: Oh right, right, So this.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: Woman checks every single box lack of empathy, financial abuse,
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: sexual harassment, psychological abuse. It's just oh, it's wild, okay.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: So imagine being a teenage girl and suddenly receiving texts
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: from an unknown number, sometimes at a rate of forty
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: two point fifty per day. For two years, she received
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: texts as I read, you're the ugliest person I've ever seen.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: You're worthless and to me nothing, Kill yourself, jump off
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: a bridge. His life would be better if you were dead.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: And the last one, this is interesting, ugly skank, you
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: trying to get attention. Fuck off? So I started that,
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: And here's why I started that. People who have underlying
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: clinically significant pathology will always tell on themselves if you're
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: listening close enough and you know what to catch. And
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: so what I think is really significant about this is
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: she is angry at her child for the attention her
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: child is receiving. And I believe that she part of
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: this was to gain attention for herself, which you know.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: So here's Can I share what I think is going
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: on with Kendram?
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Absolutely? Yes, please, Oh my god.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: So this is going to be a long one. First
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: of all, we see a lot of ego, narcissism, control,
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: and power. So what predators do. And I'm going to
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: keep calling Kendra a predator because make no mistake, she
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: is a predator. Hurting Lauren kept hurting her daughter. Lauren
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: kept her scared and dependent and easy to manipulate. That
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: is right out of the abuser's handbook, right, make people isolated,
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: dependent so that they can leave, or that they feel
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: like they need you. So I feel that it was
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: like two birds, one stone with Lauren. Part of it
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: was for attention. And during the documentary they talked about
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: Munchausen syndrome.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, digital Munchausen, yeah, right, And.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: I wanted to be clear about some of that, because okay,
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: here's the thing with Munchausen syndrome, Munchausen syndrome, it's no
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: longer called that anymore. And the reason why is Munchausen
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: syndrome was named after this guy, Baron Munchausen, who was
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: just like told tall tales and was just kind of
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: like a goofy, you know. He was like the town
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: tall tale guy, right, And so when we name something
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: like a disorder in psychology, you wanted to have a
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: little bit more like basis to what it.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Actually is se person that affiliated with.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: Exactly, which is like, he just told a lot. He
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: just talked a lot of shit like the it's not
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: a reason to name something after him.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: But anyway, I walk a lot of much. I named
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: in the DSM five or three, I don't know anyway.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah five t are you're good? Maybe maybe in six,
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: I don't know. So Munchhausen syndrome is now technically called
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: factitious disorder because it's just more specific about what's going on.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: So there's two things. You could call it digital factitious disorder.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: It is also called Munchausen by Internet, which is MBI
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: for short, and so but the right Munchhausen by Internet
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: was first identified by doctor Mark Feldman in actually the
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: year two thousand and He described it as the misuse
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: of Internet groups by offering false stories of personal illness
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: and crisis to garner attention. So it's essentially the online
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: expression of what was happening with Munchausen syndrome, which, to
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: be clear, is that it occurs when someone consciously feigns
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: an illness or induces symptoms, and it's if it's of themselves,
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: then it's just factitious disorder. If it's on someone else,
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: like for example, gypsy Rose Blanchard, She's a great example
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: that was factitious disorder imposed on another. Okay, that's what
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: you call it when you do that to a child.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: And so although the you know, Internet is vast and
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: you know there's a lot there's research behind this, it
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: actually is one of the most under research psychopathologies. And
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: so I was just trying to bone up on it
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: a little bit. But the long and the short of
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: it is that this factitious disorder digital whatever you want
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: to call it, it's a type of online deceptive behavior
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: that involves falsely occupying the sick victim and or hero
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: roles causing emotional distress to those who are duped.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: So that makes a lot of sense, Amanda. That's like
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: all of the did you do did you hear? Did
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: you oh? Yes? Okay? Yeah?
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah yeah yeah. Interesting, Yes, it is very interesting.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: And so what I think this is saying is that
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: part of Kendra wanted to be in a hero role
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: even though she was the one perpetrating the abuse on
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: her child. And so for me, it for sure falls
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: under a factitious disorder imposed on another. However, because of
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: the aforementioned narcissism, lack of empathy, ego power, and control,
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: there are also more devious things at play, I believe.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: Wow, okay, yes.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: So I think that my interpretation is that Munchausen syndrome
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: or factitious disorder imposed on another is the vehicle that
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: she used to get attention and to manipulate people. Because
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: it was also as much about manipulating others. She wanted
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: to be in a hero role for her child and
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: her family, but also for her community and for Owen's parents.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: And you know, she was a coach and a pta
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: mom and all these things. Yeah, right, so she was
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: feeding her sick ego, but also so I think the
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: Munchausen was the vehicle she used to get attention and manipulate.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: But the narcissism and the ego, the need for control, admiration,
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: and power is really what drove her.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: Bow wow, dang, Melissa, drop the mic. Wow. Why didn't
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: this happen sooner or before? I mean, why all of
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: a sudden did this start happening when her daughter turned
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: Lauren turned twelve or thirteen? You know why? Or is
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: it just that we just don't know what she was doing?
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: Is it that she found a new vehicle? Was there
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: something earlier that we don't know about.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So those are all great questions that I asked myself.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: I have a theory now. Kendra said in her talking
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Head interview when she was giving all those fake tears
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: that I just, you know, I'm gonna be honest, I
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: just can't stand this woman, and I'm trying to be
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: really respectful and responsible, but I it just makes me
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: so angry. So one thing that she said that gave
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: me a little bit of a clue is that she
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: claims that she had childhood trauma and that when she
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: was seventeen she was sexually assaulted, and she claimed that
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: that was the reason why I say bullshit.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, because I like, why is she that's her excuse,
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: That is her excuse, that's.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Her excuse she has. Kendra has nothing but excuses. She's got.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: She owned nothing, she acknowledged nothing. And I'll go into
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: that more in a minute. But no, because here's the
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: one thing I know for sure is that when someone
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: is sexually abused or perpetrated on, they can become perpetrators
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: because of that abuse. That can happen unfortunately. Right, However,
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: most trauma survivors, people with mental health issues, would rather
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: die than harm someone they love. So for me, her
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: little excuse just falls flat because again, it's not like
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: she made an oopsie. She's sexually harassed, cyberbullied and psychologically
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: tortured her child, ruining her child's life, destroying her marriage
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: and everyone in her path. That's not because you were
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: assaulted when you were seventeen.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: Sorry, yeah, no, Nope, it doesn't. It doesn't end up.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: No. And also I think it's insulting to survivors, right
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: because it's like, we don't do that, you know, Like No,
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: But one thing she said in her talking head, and
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: I have it underlined, is she said I wanted to
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: try to control the outcome of her journey, and I
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: quote that's what she said, and then she tried to
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: couch it with I wanted to keep her close and
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: I was scared to let her grow up. Okay, no, no, no.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: The first also that she said right right, absolutely, oh, positively,
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: it's saying like, oh, I just loved her, and it's like, right,
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: you didn't love this child. You abuse this child disguised
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: as love. That's not love, it's abuse. But when she
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: said I wanted to control the outcome of her journey,
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: that was truth. I can tell you that was truth
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: because at the end of the day, what this woman
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: wanted was control over her child, control over her child's life,
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: control over her child's body, because she made a lot
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: of really disgusting comments about her body. So if I can,
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: if I may be so bold, now, I'm going to
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: be honest. I'm going to share some of these texts
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: that are from the movie, their texts that she sent.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: They are very disturbing and they are graphic, so please
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: use your discretion as you listen.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, the.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: Sexual nature of these text messages not only suggests everything
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: that I just said, but it suggests a sexual preoccupation
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: with underage children. I said what I said, and this
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: is some of the things that she said to her child.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: It's obvious he wants me, so Kendra texted her daughter Lauren,
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: it's obvious he wants me, which is Owen her boyfriend. Okay,
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: he laughs, smiles, touches my hair. You are a sweet girl.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: But I know I can give him what he wants. Sorry,
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: not sorry, these are tame. Owen loves me, and I
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: will always be the girl he loves. He will be
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: with me while your lonely, ugly ass is at home.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: Then it then it transitions. This is when they get
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: really disgusting. Fuck fucking trash bitch. Don't Efen wear leggings. Eight.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: No one want to see your anoraksik flat ass. Yeah,
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: Owen and I, this is really disgusting. Owen and I
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: down to suck fingerfuck his dick and fingers my pussy
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: and mouth.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: She doesn't even make sense. She just makes zero sense.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: Right, And then there's a There's a couple more because
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: I really want to hammer this point home that this
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: is not someone who is deserving of a single ounce
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: of empathy or understanding. Okay, this is a person who
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: should be on a list for the rest of her
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: damn life. She then said, my fucking tits in his face,
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: fucking make him horny, make it cream.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's disgusting. That's why I thought these were bots.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: I'm like, nobody's who's coming up with this stuff? You know,
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: That's why I thought. When I discovered it was her
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: doing that, I'm like, how are you even you? She's sick?
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: All right, go on, yeah, all right.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: Number eight he wants sex, BJ's and making out. He
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: don't want your sorry ass. And then the last one
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: she said to her daughter was no dude ever touching
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: that pussy, you nasty slut.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, she's so disgusting.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: Okay, right, And one thing I should note is that
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: they interviewed Owen's mom, who, by the way, was friends
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: with Kendra, you know, because they were the parents of
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: the kids going through this.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: When the officer or the investigator asked her, do you
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: think this could be Kendra something along those lines, and
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: she immediately said no, right, because.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: That's what is so dangerous about someone like Kendra is
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: that they have the ability to be so predatory and
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: have such a good mask that you know, there are
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: people who when you see them out in the world,
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: they're very sick, but you don't know it to look
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: at them, and that's what's scary. So Kendra had this mask,
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: and of course it slipped and it just kind of
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: got out of control. But it does speak to the
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: very devious nature because she's typing all of these Like
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: the police figured out she was using an app to
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: like change her number or whatever, but she was typing
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: all of these out with her own fingers and sending
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: them to her child, her fourteen year old child.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: I can't even I still can't. I'm in denial about this, well.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: Right, because any good, normal human being is like this
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: is it would be unconceivable amy to think that a
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: mother right could do something like this.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why I have That's why I have so
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: many questions about how it went from like nothing as
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: far as we know, to this.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: I honestly, my honest thought is that think about when
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: kids are thirteen, what starts to happen. They start to
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: get more social, they get they get puberty, they want
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: to be out of the house, they don't need their
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: parents as much. Everything changes. I think that again, what
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: Kendrick said at the end, I wanted to try to
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: control the outcome of her journey. I think that's what
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: started this because up until thirteen, Like, I'm going to
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: use the example of narcissistic mothers, and I feel like
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: people listening to this are going to love this. So
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: narcissistic mothers are mothers who are the pta moms. They're
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: super involved, they're coaches, they're outside of the four walls
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: of the home. They are very involved in their child's life.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: But when you get home and you close the door,
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: it's suddenly it's very different because they want people and
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: the community to think that they are this good, amazing mom,
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: but they're not actually interested in meeting their child's needs.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: It's really about their needs for attention. Correct and so.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Can I yes, hate, I don't think I'm gonna interrupt
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: you anymore, Okay, but just one last thing. So that's
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: what changed when she turned thirteen. I get that. But
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: if somebody has this serious of a psychosis, is it
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: can't just be buried for thirteen years since she's had
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: her child or since she's been married. So the psychosis
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: had to have been coming out in other ways. How
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: come it hasn't been seen in extraordinary ways like this.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: If it's this bad, that's what I don't understand.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: So one thing I will say is it's not psychosis.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: And here's why people who have psychosis Legitimately, their brains
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: are tricking them, lying to them. That is a very
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: legitimate thing that people experience. Her behaviors tell me she's
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: not psychotic at all. She made the decision day after day,
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: every single text that she sent, every time she did it.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: She made hundreds of thousands of decisions. That is the
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: opposite of psychosis, that is personality disorder. But it's still
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: a good question, right, how did she keep this under
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: wraps for so long? Okay, well, here's what I would argue.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: She had enough power and control over Lauren until she
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: turned thirteen to satiate some of those needs for power
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: and control. She also had a husband who, unfortunately, it
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: seems like he kind of just let her write. He thought, oh, well,
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: you're going to take care of the finances, I'm going
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: to work, I'm going to let you do your thing.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: She picked him out. I believe as a victim, like
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: you have to pick people who you can get away
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: with something. So what this tells me is that I
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: would guarantee that this has been a lifelong issue. And
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: what happens is as people get older, if you don't
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: address the issue, it is going to get worse and
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: worse and worse until a crisis kind of happens. And
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: so I just think the underlying psychopathology became so significant
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: for a multitude of reasons. A. Her growing up. B.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: She had this weird issue with her job, whether she
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: had it or she didn't, So there were signs that
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: there was other things going on, if that makes sense.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: Okay, right, yeah, but this is to go this right far.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: It's like, what's what I don't like? How was she
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: not already like in jail, arrested before she she was?
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: Oh right, right right? Well again, this is how amy
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: you saw her. She looks like your typical middle aged woman.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: She was very well not convincing to me because I've
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: seen a million people like her and she cannot fool me.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: But you know her crocodile tears and her woe is
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: me and her boo whoo. Women who have psychopathology will
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: get away with much more than men do. I have
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: seen that time and time again. They are take longer
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: to get diagnosed, They take longer to have consequences because
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: when again, when the officers come and you see the
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: body cam footage, officers are they literally politely ask her
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: for her phone and she was just like, oh, I
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: have just the one, and they just took her word
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: for it until the husband got home and he was like, oh,
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: she's got another.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and they have the virtue for it. No, it
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: sure doesn't.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, right. And then there was something else
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: the officer said, I wrote it here because it was
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: so weird, is that the police lied to Lauren and
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: they made excuses for Kendra during that bodycam footage. You know,
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: they were like, well, Lauren, you know your mom didn't
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: start because like Kendra tried to say that she didn't
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: start it, but she continued it laughable, patently false, laughable right, laughable. Yeah, please,
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: And it was also proven and correct by FBI, who
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: actually you know, like they knew what they were doing
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: and they're like, no, it was her this whole time.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: So the point is is that she has pathological lying,
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: don't I don't think she knows how to be honest.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: And then you know, when the police, so they tell
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: Lauren they made excuses for Kendra. And then one thing
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: that really really bothered me was that when police went
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: to talk to Kendra and Lauren was there, You're talking
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: to a perpetrator and a victim. They did not separate them.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: They allowed Kendra to use Lauren as a human fucking shield.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: Yes, oh my god, you're right. That was really my
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: skin was crawling during that moment.
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: Right because you know what, So what Kendra did was
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: when the police told Lauren that it was her mom,
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: Kendra went over and hugged Lauren. And I'm like thinking
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: that to me, out of that whole movie or documentary,
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: that one scene stuck in my cross so bad because
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: it's so clinically significant, because it tells you Kendra doesn't
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: give a shit what Lauren wants. She doesn't care how
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: Lauren feels, she doesn't care what she wants. She probably
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: doesn't even know how she feels or what she wants.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: It's all about Kendra. And then Kendra was like, well,
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: I can't leave her, and it's like they should have
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: been separated and interviewed separately. She should not have been
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: allowed immediately, not been allowed to put her hands on
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: her child and children and youths should have been called immediately.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: Immediately, darlings. You know I'm going to talk about One Skin.
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• 47:44
  Speaker 2: So you know, one thing that also really frustrates me
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: is that this child, Lauren, who is a victim, was
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: not She was first of all, failed by everybody. She
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: was failed by her mother, she was failed by law
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: enforcement in the ways that I explain to you. None
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: of that should have occurred, and the legal system didn't
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: do much better. After the investigation, Kendra pleaded guilty to
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: two counts of stalking a minor, and she was sentenced
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: to a maximum of five years in prison, but she
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: was released in twenty twenty four. She's on supervised parole
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: until February twenty twenty six. And I think that given
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: the severity and the number of messages and the amount
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: of people's lives that she ruined, I think she should
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: have served more time, and she should have had a
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: psychological assessment. Now I can't say for sure that they
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: didn't do one, but this woman should not be released
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: onto the streets until that they can assure that she's
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: not a danger to self or others, because at this
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: point we know, unfortunately jail there's no rehabilitation there, especially
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: with someone who barely even admitted what she did. She
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: still made a million excuses, and then so legal system,
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: law enforcement, her mother, and then I believe Netflix completely
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: screwed this girl over. It was the Kendra Show. It
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: wasn't about Lauren, who was the victim who literally this
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: child was so traumatized holding back tears as she's talking
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: about this. I just wanted to give her such a
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: big hug, and I just thought, I just feel like
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: everyone failed this girl.
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: They did, and I'm wondering how you felt about the dad.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: Do you feel like the dad failed her too? Because
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: when he ended up coming when he was told the
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: news about it, the texts coming from Kendra. When he
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: came home, he went inside, and when he confronted Kendra,
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: he's talking about the jobs. He didn't lose his mind
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: over her being responsible for everything that has happened with
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: the texts. He didn't even address that. He was talking
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: about the jobs in the house. That blew my mind,
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: and he didn't even go over to his daughter like
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: so to me, I was pretty lost on the dad too.
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on that?
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: I couldn't agree more. And in fact, in the documentary
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: there was a couple I think it was Chloe's mom
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: and dad or Adriana's mom and dad. I forget exactly
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: who it was, and the parents both said he knew
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: about it. Allegedly, they think that the dad knew about
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: it and now he's pretending to be a victim.
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: I didn't remember hearing that wow okay.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, because she said it with her full chest
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: and her husband was like, that's my woman, and I
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: was like, I remember that part.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: See I remember that part, and I remember them saying
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: that the wife, Like you said, I don't know if
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: it was Chloe or whose mom, but she was like
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: I knew it was her, Kendra the whole time, and
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: nobody believed me in the law enforce, the law enforcement,
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: the local police completely disregarded that entirely. I did not
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: hear her say about how he knew. Wow, Okay, that's
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: news to me.
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: And here's the thing, and that's her belief, and she's
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: close to the situation, and I'm not so I tend
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: to she seems to be the only one who has
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: some clear sight about this. Yeah, but I do agree
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: with you that her dad let her down too, because
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: he knew that they were having financial issues and that's
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: when they had to move out of the place they
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: were and they were going from place to place to place. Okay,
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: So if you know that your wife has bungled the
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: finances so severely, why have you not stepped in? Why
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: have you not? I think with her? And again, this
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: is why maybe he was a good victim, is that
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: or you know, possibly participated in this. I just think
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: he had his head in the sand, ignored a lot
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: at best and at worst.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: And maybe a little bit more, which is neglect on
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: a whole serious level.
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: Correct, I mean, this woman has two phones. You never
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: checked one. You never thought, oh, my daughter's being harassed,
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: and she had Who has two phones unless you're like
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: a drug dealer or I don't even know who the
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: hell has that, or Riley Burris because Riley had a
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: couple of mounds.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: I'm just gonna say, there was somebody on a show
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: and I wasn't gonna be able to get there. Thank you,
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: lest you Riley yet.
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: So I definitely think that for sure her dad let
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: her down too, And I was shocked, like you said that,
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: he was more focused on the job than he was
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: about you did that. If someone had did that to
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: my niece, police would have had to chain me to
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: the goddamn wall to I would have ripped her ass apart.
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: And he's just like the jobs, the jobs, And it's
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: like your daughter is sitting here completely dissociated, completely checked out.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: So that's yeah, absolutely, And that's how I can tell
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: that she really is a victim of a lot with
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: this family is because she's so disconnected from her emotions.
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: She's so dissociated that that was hard hard for me
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: to watch because I just she deserves so much better
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: than that. Okay. So another thing that I wanted to
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: speaking of Lauren and her mom, the one thing that
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: I wanted to address amy was that people were talking
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: about how could Lauren still want a relationship with her mother? Okay,
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: So I'm here to answer that the answer is trauma bonding.
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: So trauma bonding is a psychological response to abuse and
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: occurs when the abused person forms a connection or relationship
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: with a person who abuses them, And so it complicates
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: things when that person is a parent, like our parents.
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: There are only two people in this world who are
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: supposed to love us and conditionally, and those are our parents.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: And when that doesn't happen, we don't stop loving our parent,
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: we stop loving ourselves. And unfortunately, a shitty parent is
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: better than no parent. And one thing I can tell
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: you for sure is that teenage girls need their moms,
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: and if you happen to have a narcissistic mom who
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: is just not capable, you're gonna take whatever the hell
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: you can get. I don't believe that Lauren understands the
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: mechanisms behind this. I don't think many people understand it,
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: but I noticed it immediately, which is when when the
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: producers asked her, like, what do you think about people
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: who judge you for having this relationship? And she started
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: to tear up, but she does this thing where she
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: kind of tries to swallow it, which tells me that
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: she was never allowed to the time and space to
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: have her own emotions. Is She cried and she you said,
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: you know, I think people won't understand, but I don't care.
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: And it's like, think about the horrible situation this child
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: is in. Okay, her parents are now divorced, her mom
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: went to jail. I sincerely believe a it's trauma bonding
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: because you guys have to remember too. Is that the
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: severe manipulative nature of Kendra? I E I'll give you
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: another example of this. When Kendra was in prison. Did
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: you see the emails that she was sent?
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, why didn't you get back to me? Frownie face.
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: I'll forgive you. Wow. That that manipulation, Oh my god,
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: that sent me to the moon. I was so angry
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: just seeing that. I was like, you're manipulating her and
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: scolding her after what you did, and she knows it's diabolical.
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's that's exactly it. Amy, It is diabolical. This
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: is not a mental health issue. This is not a
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: poor me. You know, I had a history of abuse.
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: This is not that this woman is a monster. She
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: is an absolute monster and you know. And so speaking
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: of that, there was a couple of things, a couple
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: of notes that I wanted to say when she was
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: after the big reveal, when she was doing this talking head,
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: there were a couple of major things that I noticed.
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: Number One, people who have psychopathology engage in something called
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: impression management. Impression management is where you care so much
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: about what other people think that you want to manage
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: their impressions of you, and especially with law enforcement. Right
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: and so Kendra said to the people who were interviewing her,
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: she said, you guys are going to think I'm a
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: crazy lady. And I know that didn't seem like a lot,
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: but I'm like, that is impression management right there. It's
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: not about her daughter, it's not about her family, it's
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: not about the kids' lives who she ruined. All she
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: cares about is what people think of her, which.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: Is ironic when you do something like that. How could
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: she do something like that if she cares so much
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: about what people think of her?
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: I know that's that's the rub, isn't it.
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: It doesn't even make sense, like I mean, it does
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: make sense because of everything you said, but it just
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: because you kind of have to compartmentalize each psychological issue.
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know I'm using the words right, but you
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: have to take them separately in a way, and then
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: you've got this, you know, banquet of problems with this lady.
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: Literally, yes, literally of very severe problems. So the one
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: thing she said is that I noticed she has a
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: tendency of when she's lying, she says the word honestly.
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to give you an example, okay, And
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: that is something again. People when they have pathology, they
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: have so much ego in narcissism that they think they're
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: smarter than people and that they won't be found out.
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: But they but they overestimate themselves and they underestimate other
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: people like myself, which is just funny. It's kind of
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: the nature of a narcissist. But she said, Lauren knows
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: she's small and petite, and I may have picked up
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: on some of her insecurities with her appearance, but honestly,
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: the messages weren't targeted at her insecurities. And then she
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: tried to claim that this bullshit was.
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: About her because she's.
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: An apparently so, and I'm like, you struggle with some things,
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: but anorexia isn't one of them. You know, when she
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: is texting her daughter, no one wants your flat anorexic ass.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: That's not I may have that you did. You knew
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: your daughter's weaknesses, her insecurities, her soft points, and you
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: manipulated and pressed on every single one of those for
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: your own benefit. And then there was another time where
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: she said, honestly, oh and this, oh, this was what
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: was insane too, Okay, Kendra cried discussing her love for
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: her child and not wanting her child to be sexually
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: abused like she was. But you sexually harassed your own child.
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: So what are you even talking? You know what I'm saying.
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: It's like, I think what you're saying, Amy, is that
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: none of this makes sense. And to healthy, loving, good people,
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: I could explain this till the cows come home, and
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: it isn't going to make sense because you're a healthy,
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: loving person who loves your child and would rather die
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: than see harm come to her. And unfortunately, there are
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: a lot of parents, mothers out there who are really
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: scary people, and sometimes it doesn't get found out. There
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: are people who grow up with mothers like this, and
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: then it's not until they're middle aged and they start
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: to tell people, and then people are like, wow, I
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: had no idea. It's all about that mask. It's all
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: about that mask that these predators wear. And so you know,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: for me, that's kind of most of what I wanted
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: to talk about here, but it's just so intense.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: Her cousin, her cousin. When she got on the screen,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: I was like, let's go, let's get down to what
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: you know. All we got was she really likes the limelight.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: She really likes attention. That's really all we got. We
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: didn't get anything else from her. I was like, right,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: you're supposed to be the key to the truth what
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: happened in her childhood? What else did what else did
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: she do that was diabolical when you were younger, She
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: had to have done something. She had to have shown
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: you this side of her other than just wanting attention,
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: like she had a great thing and that I don't
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: understand that. I don't understand, okay so much.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: Well, let me explain. So this is where I think
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: Netflix dropped the ball because that's where a professional would
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: have come in clutch in terms of like, for example,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: her cousin, she's not a professional, she's a regular person.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: So when the Netflix producers are asking her she's a
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: lay person, she doesn't know. She's like, I don't know.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: She liked attention and blah blah blah. But like, how
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: well do you really know your cousins growing up? How
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: well do you really know someone? And what I can
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: tell you is you can be married to someone, a
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: family member and have no idea how diabolical somebody is.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: Is if sometimes you're not a professional and you don't
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: know what to look out for. Because I agree with you,
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: this is more than she just liked attention. This is
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: more than she had a history of childhood trauma. This
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: is more than that. But what I would have loved
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: is for a professional to come in and take what
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: the cousin said, and take what the police said, and
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: take what people said, and weave, like I am, kind
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: of weave this tapestry of this is how this happens,
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: and this is what this looks like. I think the
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: show could have gone from amazing to like it could
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: have gone to another level had they done that. But
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: this comes back to my first criticism, which is I
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: think Netflix or producers let this woman off the hook
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: time and time and time again, and I just am
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: not here for it.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they wanted to get what they want. They were
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: selfish about what they wanted to get from her, which
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: is they wanted her to be the laughing stock. They
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: wanted her to be in on this twist for the storyline.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: They wanted that, you know, for the sake.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: For the entertainment value. Correct. So again Lauren was let
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: down by her parents, the legal system, law enforcement, Netflix,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: and the entertainment industry. They use this girl's literal life,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: this trauma. She will never be the same when you
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: experienced trauma like this when brain, your brain is still growing,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: which research suggests it's We used to think it's up
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: until age twenty five, and now there's research that suggest
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: if you're neurodivergent, it's actually closer to thirty. So you're
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: basically talking about a child's brain developmentally speaking.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: It.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: Enduring all of these things. And she I can tell
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: that she's going to have psychological, long lasting impacts forever
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: for the rest of her life. And she was just
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: done dirty by every single person, and I just I
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: don't like it.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: Now, when she got out of prison, she's not allowed
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: to see her mother. And is that because of the
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: law or because of I mean, is there a restraining order?
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: Is that because the law or is that because that
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: is what the father asked to do? And if that's
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: the case, will she be able to see her when
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: she turns twenty one if she wants to?
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: So what I think? And I would have to do
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: more research on this, which I should have but I forgot,
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: which is she cannot have contact now because she was
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: found guilty of stalking, and so I don't believe that
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: there is like a protective order, but I do believe
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: that it's in her whatever you want to call that,
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: her probation terms agreement to not be able to have
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: a relationship with her now. But absolutely as soon as
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: Lauren turns eighteen or twenty one, at some point, she's
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: going to have to make those choices. Do I want
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: to to continue to have contact with my mom? To
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: think for a.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: Second, hope that she doesn't I know, but.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: Think about if Lauren decides to get engaged, get married,
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: have a baby. These are milestones that we need our
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: mom for and so unfortunately, I think for Lauren, her
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: toughest days are ahead in terms of grief and loss
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: and processing that the person who's supposed to love you
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: the most in the world hurt you more than anybody
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: else could. I think that this is going to take
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: a long time for her to sort out, and I
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: would happily offer her free therapy, like literally forever, for
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: the rest of her life, because she deserves, she deserves
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: the world, and she deserves better than what she's getting.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: And I just hope she knows that she's amazing and
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: didn't deserve any of it.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I am a believer in therapy, yes, indeed, and
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: pretty much everyone I know is as well. So if
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: you're not on that train, guess what You've got a
• 1:06:01
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• 1:06:05
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• 1:06:10
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• 1:06:13
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• 1:06:19
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• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: therapist who truly cares your mental health matters. What could
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: possibly have happened in Kendra's life? Not necessarily the sexual assault,
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: because we know that that's not how it would How
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: a typical victim of that would ever respond. What could
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: possibly happen to somebody that would push them to have
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: this desire to hurt their own child like this? What
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: could explain What kind of trauma would explain that?
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: I don't think trauma would explain it. I think it's
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: explained by her pathological, clinically significant need for power, attention,
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: and control.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: Wow, God, that every time you say it, I mean,
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: it's hard to sink in. You know, it's starting to
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: sink in, but it is. I get it. I'm starting
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: to get it more because the need for power, as
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: we've seen in many cases. I mean it, it manifests
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: itself in many different ways, and manifests itself in many
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: different disastrous scenarios that hurt people, that kill people. So
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: I guess at the end of the day that that
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: really does make a lot of sense. It's just such
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: a unique, extraordinary situation that I just can't I'm like, well, something,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: you know, what happened that.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: There has to be something else.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: I like, I've got the X, but I need the
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: other two numbers to add up to it, or you know,
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: or it's two X. I just don't know. So okay,
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: But but I'm glad that you clarified that being a
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: victim of assault, you know, it is it is an
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: insult to people who are victims that she would wrongfully
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: point the finger at that as an excuse. That is
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: actually really infuriating to me now that I understand more.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: When when you were talking about that.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: Right, and so I imagine that a lot of survivors
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: got real angry, you know, myself included when I saw that,
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: because it's like, nah, bro, you're like you have problems,
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: like you're no, fuck you, that's not it, you know.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: But I have a question for you. So at the end,
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: I felt that there was a little bit of a twist,
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: at least for me when we found out from Owen
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: that she was very uh, pursuant of him, because I
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: did not have that in the forefront of the documentary.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: I at that point, I was just thinking it was
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: all about Kendra and Lauren. It really had nothing to
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: do with Owen, you know. I didn't think there was
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: a connection there. And then we got there the very
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: end of the documentary and I'm like, and that's where
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: you're gonna leave us. So was she trying to pursue
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: him this entire time? Was it about this? Was she
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: trying to Was that her ultimate plan was to get
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: with him?
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: I think that at the end of the documentary. One
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: thing that Owen's mom said that really stuck with me
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: is that when Owen and Lauren broke up, Kendra went
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: to all of Owen's games. And that seems like a
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: very teenagery thing to do, right, yes, right, like I
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: broke them up, and now let me try to swoop in.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: And I wonder there is a part of my brain
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: that's saying I wonder if she thought that maybe she'd
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: be able to engage with him, and then when that
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: didn't happen, that's when she went back to the texting,
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: because when she when she was going to his games,
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: that's when she had taken the break. Oh you know
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: what I'm saying. So I think that Owen's mother was right.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: And to your point, you're right too, is that it's
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: not just one thing. This is not just one thing.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: This is a myriad of very complex psychological components. But
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: I do believe that part of it is that she
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: had an infatuation with Owen, who was a thirteen year old.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: Child, and she was jealous of her own daughter. So
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: like when you put that motivation on it as well,
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: like the power, the control everything. When she told on
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: herself by saying she wanted to control her journey, all
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: of that is its own thing. But also her she
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: must have had some I don't know what her upbringing,
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know what her life was like when she
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: was a young teen, but clearly she wants what her
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: daughter's life is because she maybe did not have that
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: at all and now is trying to. As we've seen
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: so many times with mothers, stage moms and all those things,
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: they're living vicarious through their kids. You know, she not
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: only is living trying to live vicariously, she's trying to
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: destroy and take the feelings all of that take over
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: and then like take those feelings of being that age
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: and then ultimately try to be with Owen in some way.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: One key component of narcissistic mothers is that they are
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: always jealous of their daughters. Oh wow, they are jealous
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: of their daughters the attention that they get, which is
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: she said something in a text, you trying to get attention?
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: Fuck off? I think that was very telling. I think
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: she wanted her daughter's life. I think she had a
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: preoccupation with a thirteen year old boy named Owan. I
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: think that she was upset with occupation.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: What do you mean.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: I think that she was a little bit obsessed.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: Oh oh all right, uh inappropriately? Okay, yeah?
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think she was jealous of her daughter,
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: the attention her daughter was getting, the love that her
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: daughter was getting from Owen. And I think it's interesting
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: because it's like, why would you want your thirteen year
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: old child to give blow jobs and do all these
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: sexual acts? And I think that's kind of sick, sickly
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: tied into Kendra's her belief that like she she would
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: know what to do with Owen. And you don't you
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: know what I mean? Again, I could be wrong. There
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: certainly could be missing puzzle pieces, but I've thought about
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: this for a million hours, and I this is for me.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: I definitely think that there's not only there's antisocial tendencies,
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: lack of empathy, there's needs for power and control, there's narcissism,
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: there's ego, and then there's this preoccupation with an underage child.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: It is a host a litany, if you will, of
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: psychological issues. That this woman should not be walking the streets,
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: and the fact that she is is absolutely shocking to me.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: Can I ask you two more questions if you don't mind, Okay?
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: The first one is as we're going through this and
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: my mind is shifting around and thinking about all these
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: texts and the sexual nature obviously that you know. Now
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: that I'm over the shock of those, I guess I'll
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: never be over it. But now that we are really
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: digging in and hearing everything you have to say, do
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: you think that when things turn so sexual and the
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: threats about how Owen wouldn't want to be with her,
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: he wants those things in a relationship that her mother was.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: Her goal was to push Lauren to have sex with him,
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: to do that with him so that then they ultimately
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: she ultimately would get pregnant, and then she would always
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: Owen would always be in her life because of the baby,
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: and then she could really see now I'm making now,
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: I'm really making stories up. But you know I'm starting
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: I'm starting to think maybe there was a grander plan
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: to get him closer so that she could ultimately be
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: with him sexually.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: That you may totally be no, I swear to you.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: I think when you're dealing with someone who is led
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: by psychopathology and not logic and you know whatever, I
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: think that that is definitely not beyond a realm of
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: possibility because I think that Kendra was so over focused
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: on Owen that I do. I just think she needed
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: him in her orbit, no matter how much, and so
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: for sure that could be a possibility.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: I mean to see that the texts being so sexual,
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: almost saying what to do in a way like this
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: is what you should do, and then for them to
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: go into self harming herself, it shows like she was
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: trying one angle, which is like you know, try to
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: get this girl pregnant, and then the mother is going
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: to be the savior of like I'll take care of
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: the baby, and like you, I'll keep you closer, and
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: the controlling that, and then when that didn't seem to work,
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: and then they broke up or whatever. I don't know
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: the timeline of the text. At some point when the
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: thread happened where she was telling her to, you know,
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: get rid of herself, but that was the other option,
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: to get rid of her entirely, and that her daughter
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: would do it on her own so that she would
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: have more access to him and she could comfort him.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: She could comfort him, and then it could happen that way. Okay,
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: so now I've got all my crazy theories out there.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: But the biggest question I have is would she have
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: gone so far as to kill her daughter, Because that
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: to me, as you were saying she should not be
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: on the streets, she should have she should be locked
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: up where she should be has nothing to do with
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: where she is. And to say that she wasn't a
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: threat to her life, her actual life, that that was
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: never brought up, that that's actually like a premeditated murder
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: to tell someone to kill themselves. I don't understand why
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: that's not taken more seriously in this So would she
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: have done that? Do you think she would have been
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: capable of doing it? Because I do. I think she
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: could have killed her, I really do.
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: Amy if she could have unleashed literal psychological warfare on
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: her child, anything as possible, Absolutely positively. If this, here's
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: what I can tell tell you for sure. Remember how
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: I told you when I was going through the timeline
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: that escalation was important.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, escalation.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: Indicates that things are getting out of control. And I
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: believe that the escalation was so much that if this
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: had not been found out, I absolutely would have been
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: concerned for Laurens safety. Could this have turned into a
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: mounch fectitious disorder and post on another where all of
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: a sudden she starts poisoning her and making her sick?
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: And right? Because when you have this pathological need for attention,
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: you don't someone like Kendra doesn't care how she gets it.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: Her daughter is an object for her.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: To be used.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: Lauren is a tool to be used by Kendra. So
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: your aunt, to answer your question is absolutely anything as
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: possible and for sure if she hadn't gotten caught this
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: would have just really bad things could have happened. And
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: to go back to what you said, I thank you
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: for you know, your point about why did more people
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: not care about you know, making these threats, these about
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: death threats and about self harm and all of that.
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: That part to me is like, why why was this
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: not investigated more? Why is this? Why was this not
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: a charge or listen? And maybe that's a legal thing,
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: but I do think that the most diabolical thing that
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: you could do is try to convince your own child
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: to end their life. So why would you have any
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: qualms with ending it for them?
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's chilling. Yes, I know, I know, I know.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 3: He'll well that escalated quickly, but honestly, so Amy, let
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 3: me ask you a kind of a couple of questions.
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: So at the end of the day day, you know, what,
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: of the things that I've said and of the things
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 2: that we've talked about, I don't know what what it did?
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: It make sense what we talked about, Like, is there
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: any other ambering questions or things that you're still like,
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm confused about this or thoughts about anything,
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: because you have You've made some very you joked about
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: being in the sidecar. But you've made some very excellent points.
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: Oh bah blah, you're doing great, bubba. I you went
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: through this with a fine toothcomb. You crossed every tea
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: and every eye that could be dotted. And it does
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 1: make sense now, I mean, obviously in the grand scheme
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: of things that will never make sense. But why are
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: we here as people?
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: Is there?
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: God? Like you know that it falls under that category.
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: But but for the sake of being so desperate to
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: understand and not knowing where this falls in the world
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: of psychology, you have completely laid that out and for that,
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: I'm so thankful. I just am blown away at how
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: complicated it is. It's really not. It's not a straight line,
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: and clearly we're all you know, it's not. Everything's not
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: black and white. But I did think that there had
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: to have been you know, cause and effect here, and
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: it simply is not that easy to explain that way. However,
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: you did pinpoint the biggest thing, which is the power
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: and the control and the narcissism, and that to me
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: is enough to be able to have a conclusion and closure.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: It's enough for me to have closure, you know, right,
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: Because yeah, and I love when you point out the
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: moments that none of us would ever see. When you
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: say that you see somebody telling on themselves. I love that.
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: Every time we talk about a documentary or show, you
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: always can see that with your ego eye, and I
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: love that.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 2: It's you know, it's one of the things that my
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: clinical practice has really informed, right, because you learn about things,
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: but then you learn you see them in real life
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: and you see the ways that people present, and so
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: you know, my career has really afforded me that ability.
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it was amazing those little things that just
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: stuck out in my brain because of the things right
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: that I've seen. You know, I call myself the antisocial whisperer.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: So my career I worked with a lot of antisocial folks.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: And you know that's so cool a lot.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I listen, I am so grateful for us
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: to be able to do this episode. I love when
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: we collab. I know that Darling Bushes love a collab.
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: And listen, I've been in my grief bubble, so I'm
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: just grateful that you got me out of the bubble.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: And I've had so much fun. Well, not that the
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: subject matter has been fun. Let me be clear. But
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: it's been fun, you know, to talk with you and
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: to talk with you all our.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: Darlings distraction and for you to exercise your brain the
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: way that you do when it poo poop poop poop
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: poo poo is firing all cylinders on all cylinders. I
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: think that that's wonderful for you to do, especially during
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: this time, you know, I mean, and I'm so I'm
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: so happy that we were able to do this. Thank you.
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: This is probably one of, at least for me, one
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: of the most disturbing things stories I've ever heard.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: I agree, and listen. Being a therapist, right, being an
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: empathetic witness to sex trafficking, abuse, trauma, right, I have
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: heard some awful, awful things. To me, this is top
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: of the list, and I've seen some shit. So, but
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 2: to validate you and everyone listening to this is that
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 2: if you're enraged, good, that means that you're healthy. That
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: means that you are appropriately reacting to this scenario. So cadus, cadus,
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: those redus.
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and also thank you for explaining so many of
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: the areas that we should be enraged about that aren't
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: obvious to some of us and and me. You know, like,
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: there are so many things that you said. I was like,
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: oh my god, even think about that, like's it was
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: so surprising and shocking, and most of us and me included,
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: got really swept away in the entertainment of it, like
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: I always do. I'm always going to be a pawn
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: of that. So salacious. But at the end of the day,
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: I just, you know, was so disturbed by this. I
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: can't shake it, you know, And so I'm really glad
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: to have worked through this with you. Oh my gosh,
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: what a collab. Well, thanks darlings, Thanks bitshus, and we
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: definitely do it again sometime obviously.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, of course, and of course you all know where
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: to find us. But you know, please check me out
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: www dot patreon dot com, backslash your Bush Therapist, Please
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: check me out on Instagram, your bish Therapist. I'm taking
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: a smidgeon of a break from the podcast. This is
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: actually gonna be my season finale, and I wouldn't want
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 2: it to be with anyone else, Amy, So thank you
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 2: for that.
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, thank you so much. Drama Darling check
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: me out over wherever you get your podcasts and teatrain
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: dot com, Slash Drama Darling and Nadiem Phillips, Melissa Talk
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: To You, Sam Drama Back Darling
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: Drama, Darling