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Carl Jung in Basel: A Walking Tour · This Jungian Life Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello, I'm here in Basel, Switzerland for something very exciting.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: I'm getting a private tour of Basel with Jungian analyst
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: and author, Catherine Shepi, who has a new book. It's
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: called C.G. Jung, The Basel Years, A Walking Guide. And
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: here it is, so excited to see it. And Catherine's
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: gonna show me around Basel, all the places where Jung lived,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: and where he went to school and university. So let's
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: take a look.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Hi. I'm really excited to give Lisa this tour. We're
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: already in Klein-Hueningen. We're standing in front of the parsonage
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: where C.J. Jung grew up from the ages of 4
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: to 21.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, so here we go. We're going to walk over
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: to the parsonage. This is the parsonage.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: This plaque, which says Carl Gustav Jung, the founder of
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: analytical psychology, lived in this house from 1879 to 1896,
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: was dedicated by the psychological club Basel. And this is
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: the home we know so well from C.G. Jung's Memories, Dreams, Reflections,
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: where he talks, he has many anecdotes about living in
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: this house. One of them is the mannequin story where
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: he carves a little mannequin in a ruler and then
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: he hides it in a pencil case and hides the
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: pencil case on a beam in the attic. And I've
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: spoken with a person here and she has told me, no,
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: it absolutely is no longer here because she cleaned the
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: whole attic. herself, but many people are hopeful that it
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: will appear out of the beams one day, but I
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: think that's not going to happen. The house has a
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: gorgeous garden in the back, which in earlier times the
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: family could have seen all the way down to the Rhine,
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: but that's no longer because there were changes that took
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: place here. Klein-Hueningen moved from being a farming and fishing
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: town into an industry town for dye and chemical industry.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: And then it became a harbor town.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: So here we are standing a little bit further back
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: from the parsonage so that you can see the whole thing.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: And there's the garden over to the left that Catherine
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: was talking about before. And apparently we're going to walk
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: over to that skyscraper because Catherine tells me that has
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: a story too. Shall we go?
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: We shall. Okay. Here's where there used to be a restaurant,
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: the Kronen Restaurant, when Jung talked about the town. I mean, well,
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: let's turn back a minute and look at the parsonage.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: It actually was at the corner where there was a
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: big tree and there was a fountain. It wasn't where
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: it is now, but on the other side. And that
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: was practically the center of town. And you would see cows.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: The road was unpaved. Dorfstraße. And right here was the
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: restaurant where they also were doing the slaughtering of the animals,
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: right next to the parsonage. Jungstrasse. talks about that in Memories, Dreams, Reflections.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: Wow, okay.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: There are three fisher houses that still exist in Klein-Hueningen.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: Remembering it's a fisher and farming town initially. So this
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: is one of the fisher houses. And what you see
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: right behind it is the first skyscraper of Basel. When
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: the harbor was built in in 1930s, these buildings went
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: up for the barges, for the grains, for the cargo
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: that came up the Rhine, and the town was cut off.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: This has a lot to do with the fact that Klein-Hüningen,
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: which was initially independent during Jung's time, right around when
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: his father was pastor, it was being taken over by Basel.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: For the town, it had some financial advantages, but aesthetically,
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: the town changed tremendously. It became a harbor town.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: I just want to get a little closer to this
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: really charming cottage. So you're saying that a fisherman's family
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: would have lived here, is that right?
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: And this would have been here when Jung lived here?
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: Yes. The legend goes that it was Attila the Hun
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: who settled here. Another theory is that it's called Klein-Hüningen, Hun, Hüningen,
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: because of Hun means Hugo, the son of Hugo. So
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: there's actually, on the other side in France, there's Hüningen,
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: and we're in Klein-Hüningen, Little Hüningen. So we're right about
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: to go down Cemetery Way and turn left into the
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: church where Carl's father, Paul, worked.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's go. Wow. Yes. So this would have been
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: the church where his father worked. And also that story
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: in MDR where he has his first communion.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: That would have been here.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: That takes place here.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And the church, it's a Baroque church. But when
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: you go inside, which we won't be able to do
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: now because it's locked, you see that it's very austere.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: It's a Reformed church. There's not angels and stucco. It's
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: a very white church. And you can imagine Carl Jung
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: and his mother sitting in the front row.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: And it looks pretty much now as it would have?
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: Yes. Standing in front of Paul Jung's gravestone, Carl's father.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: And it looks like somebody has put a rose on
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: the On the gravestone. It was in here yesterday when
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: I came by. Maybe one of the people who came
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: on the tour. But actually his remains are in Kuesnacht,
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: in the family grave. It's just the gravestone that's here.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: So his remains are in that same cemetery where Jung
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: himself is buried?
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: Yes, in the family grave in Kuesnacht. And here you
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: can also see the second Fischer house that still remains.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: It's attached right to the wall of the cemetery. There's
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: only three Fischer houses left in Klein-Hüningen. They're very quaint, small,
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: but they didn't have plumbing at the time.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: Again, these would have been here looking much like that
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: when Jung was a child here.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: Yes, they haven't been rebuilt. Lisa, you're not going to
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: get the whole tour. I have to leave some teasers here.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: So one of the teasers that is actually in the book,
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: that is explained in the book, is that this church
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: was once hit by cannonballs from the fortress across the
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: Rhine in France. There's a fortress that was built by
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: Sébastien Vaubin and that Jung knew about. He actually made pictures.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: A picture in the Red Book is an imitation of
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: one of the fortresses. But when Jung was living here,
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: that fortress had already been taken apart because the Swiss
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: were quite feeling insecure of having a fort right next
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: to the border. And it was justified because one of
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: the cannonballs just strayed and hit this church, destroying it partially,
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: not completely. So they embedded four cannonballs in the side
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: as a commemoration of that moment. That was in 1815,
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: the Napoleon War.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: And they're still there, the cannonballs.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: They're still there.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: That's cool.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: So here's Carl Jung, age six, in the book. It's
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: full of pictures. It has about over 150 pictures. And
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: now we're standing at the spot where this school, his school,
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: his institute, Primary and secondary school.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: His school was a big building?
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: This big building here. And you can see the peak
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: of the church right here. So it was very close
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: to the church.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: And so that school building's gone and now there's this
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: modern building.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: This very modern school with a swimming pool. But it's
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: at the same location. Yeah.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: And so it's just a few steps away from the church, really.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: Yes. Everything's very close in Klein-Hueningen, from the parsonage to
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: the church and now to the school. And it was
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: a primary and secondary school. where Jung went to and
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: where his sister then nine years later, when he was
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: already leaving, also went to school. But there's so much
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: more that you'll get in the book, for example, about
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: his drawings of the dragons and relationships to the Red
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: Book and to the Münster and the Fischer houses and
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: this Clavel estate. The whole story about how Klein-Hüningen moved
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: from that small Fischer house and farmer's town to an
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: industry town of dyeing. And that was what the Clavel
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: estate was about. He was the first person who brought
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: a dye pattern to dye materials and ribbons. Basel was
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: known for its ribbon industry, but the dyeing of the
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: ribbon and ribbons came up, the synthetic dyes. And that
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: was part of Clavel's doing.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: And that over there is the third surviving fisherman's hut,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: is that correct?
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Right, that is.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: I don't think that I had any sense of how
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: close to the Rhine he grew up, but it must
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: be right on the other side of that big building, right?
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: Exactly, except you can't get to the Rhine anymore because
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: when the harbor was built and the train tracks were
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: put in to bring the cargo by train through Switzerland...
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: The town was cut off from the Rhine.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Wow. So how long of a walk would it have
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: been down to the river when Jung was growing up here?
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Oh, five minutes.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: It's right on the other side of that building. Those
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: are all the modern buildings for the harbor. Those came
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: up only in the 1930s, the harbor buildings. Until then,
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: there was access to the Rhine. But it had become
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: a factory town with the pollution that belongs with it
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: at that time. Just look at this beautiful wrought iron gate.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: One of Karl's uncles, Rudolf Preiswerk, was an iron worker,
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: and he made such doors. And in the book, you'll
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: see the iron work door that he got a prize
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: for at the national exhibit in Switzerland. But now we're
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: walking into the Clavel Estate, Clavel was the person who
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: brought the dye pattern back from Lyon, which initiated the
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: chemical industry in Basel. So we see a beautiful villa.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: Behind the villa was a pond where the women can
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: go out in a boat or the men could go
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: out in a boat and boat in their pond.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: That's beautiful. What is it now?
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: Now it's a school.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: And this is another view of that fisherman's cottage, isn't it?
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: Again, it's It's so easy to imagine it looking something
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: very much like this when Jung was a little child.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: He'd be passing these types of houses right and left.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: These were the houses where most of the town was
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: made of.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: So we're just noticing that, you know, Jung's school was
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: right here. And then you can see the church again
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: we're coming up on right here. And then the parsonage
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: is just a few steps down. So in a way,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: he had this very constricted life. But then five minutes
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: in another direction is the Rhine. And one of my
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: favorite stories from MDR is from Memory Streams Reflections is
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: when he was pushed to the cobblestones by a schoolmate
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: And he remembers thinking, well, now I sort of have
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: an excuse not to function.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: Not to have to go to school anymore.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Not to have to go to school.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: And then he did come home, and he was at home.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: He was painting. He was drawing. He was playing down
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: at the Rhine. He had that freedom that he needed
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: maybe to develop his fantasy, which he really needed at
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: that time.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Yes, although there's this wonderful part where he talks about
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: realizing what this might mean for his future if he
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: didn't get back on track. And he forced himself to
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: continue his studies. And I remember that section of MDR
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: ends with, that's when I understood what a neurosis is.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: Okay, we've just seen some of the sites in Klein-Hüningen.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: But there are five tours in the book, so this
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: is just a teaser tour. Now we're on the tram,
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: returning from Klein-Hinningen, going to Basel. Very comfortably sitting on
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: these chairs, whereas Jung would have walked the four kilometers
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: from Klein-Hinningen to Basel, and in the evening he'd walk back.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: And he started that when he started at the gymnasium, right?
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: Yes, he was 12 years old. Okay. Yeah, he did
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: it the nine years that he was going to school there.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: And so how long would it take to do that walk?
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: He would have had a good hour walking rather quickly,
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: you know, at a good pace. I've never been able
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: to do it less than 45 minutes walking fast.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: Wow. And now we're just sitting on the tram. Very comfortably,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: as you said.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, and when he was living in Klein-Hinningen, there was
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: no tram. There was no option.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: Right. I'd like to show you Helvetia. She's right over here.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: She's sitting on the edge of the Rhine. She's just
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: looking down at the Rhine, watching the water flow down
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: to Holland. So here you can see the old university,
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: the yellow building. the natural history museum that's sort of
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: poking up above, and then we'll be going to the Münster.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, and I know that the Münster is a very,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: very important building in Jung's story, so I'm really looking
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: forward to seeing that. So now we're going to be
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: walking across the Rhine, is that right?
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: Let's do it.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, and this is the path Jung would have walked.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: The one we just did in the tram, comfortably. He
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: would have walked along the Rhine and then crossed over
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: this bridge. Unless, in the tour, he could also, the
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: bridge that's shown down here is also a possibility. He
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: could have crossed that bridge and walked up the other side.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: I see. You know, we could do something totally different.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: We could actually take a ferry ride afterwards. Would you
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: like to take a ferry ride?
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: Let's see how much time we have.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah. All the houses here, the old town.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: It is a beautiful, beautiful town.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: It is. So when Jung would have walked the bridge,
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: this side was made of stone. And when he stepped
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: off into Basel, it would have been made of wood.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: Because the current of the Rhine was so strong, they
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: couldn't build the stone on the other side. Just a
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: small tidbit. In medieval times, you would have walked across
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: the bridge, and there would have been a door. Basel
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: was a walled city. There was a wall all around it,
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: and there were the different doors that you'd enter and
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: leave the city. And this would be the door over
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: the middle bridge.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: It really strikes me, being in Basel, how much it
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: has the feel of a medieval town. And of course,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Jürgen was so inspired by the Middle Ages. You can
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: really see that influence.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: Yes. He read the Grail legend when he was 15,
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: and he had the dream of the night.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: And of course later got very interested in alchemy.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: Yes. This is the city of alchemy. Basel was very
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: important because of the printing industry. Just shortly after Gutenberg
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: created the first printing press, Basel had its printing presses.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: And they were printing the Bible in 13 languages. The
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: Koran was printed very early. And, of course, the alchemists
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: came to Basel because they had their books printed. Basel
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: is not only a medieval town, it has become the
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: center of the pharmaceutical industry. And we're seeing the Roche
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Towers back here, the two pyramids. And if you turn
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: down in the other directions towards that big tower, that's
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: the Novartis Campus. Wow. So this plaque, is here on
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: the entry to the middle bridge. It was built in
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: 1903 to 1905, and it replaced the old wooden bridge
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: that was built in 1226.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: Wow, so it's such an incredible mix of the old
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: and the new, just like many.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: Charming European towns.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: And you see on the buildings, you see the dates.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: This one's from 1437. And this is a building I
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: particularly like because, you know, as I said, Basel was
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: well known for the printing industry. And this building, they
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: did the calligraphy. So have a closer look into the
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: window here on the other side. And you can actually
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: see the desk with the ink mats and you can
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: see the pens and that they used. Are you seeing
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: anything maybe from the other side? See the quills? The quills,
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: the paint brushes.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: And there it is from 1437.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: So we're approaching the old university. And Basel had the
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: first university in Switzerland because you had to have papal
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: privilege to have a university. And because Basel had the
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: council here for 13 years, they had good connections with
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: the Pope.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: And so when was the university established?
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: 1481. I might have to check that.
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: There's the bridge we just crossed.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: What a nice view.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: So this is the old university where Carl's grandfather was
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: the animator of medicine. It's this building. And it has
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: the old anatomy.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: An operating theater.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: An operating theater. Theatrum Anatomicum.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: So Jung's grandfather established the medical department here?
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Yes. He emigrated from Germany, got a position here as
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: a medical doctor for anatomy, surgery, and obstetrics. And at
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: the time, there were only two doctors. medical students and
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: he developed the whole medical faculty until it prospered with
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: many students.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: And then did Jung study here himself?
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: No, he didn't because the medical the department had gotten
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: so large, this was too small. And so they moved,
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: they built a new building called the Vesalianum, which we'll
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: look at later on. And he also went to many
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: different buildings because the medical faculty then specialized. So hygiene
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: would be here and psychiatry would be there. So he
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: was wandering also to different places. for his studies. This
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: is the Staatsarchiv. So this is where you're going to
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: find all the people who are doing research about Jung.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: They get to go into this beautiful building and get
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: into the archives, the stacks.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, so this is the archives, essentially, where we are
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: right now.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: These are the archives.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: And you must have spent a lot of time here.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: I did.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: Your book is really, it's not... actually just a walking guide.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: No.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: It's a real detailed, well-researched history of Jung's early years.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: So this must have been your home away from home
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: in the time you were researching.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: For many hours.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: How long did it take you to write this book?
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: I worked on it for about 10 years at least
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: I started off by giving tours to students at ISAP
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: and ISAP is International School of Analytical Psychology the second
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Jungian school in Zurich and I would give tours and
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: afterwards every time I changed the tour a bit I'd
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: add something to it and with time I had such
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: an amazing amount of information and Not only that, I
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: had more and more questions. So I kept researching and
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: went into those details that you find in biographies, but
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: you know the information, but you might not know the
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: exact details. For example, I went in and I looked,
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: who did Jung actually study with? Who were the students
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: that he studied with? Where were the medical buildings that
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: he went to? Which ones? I listed where did, well,
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: I got some help from Sonoshan Dasani. He gave me
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: a list of books that Jung consulted at the library.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: And so I listed those books.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: You can really sort of trace Jung's, his kind of
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: intellectual development as a young person. Yes. It's really fascinating.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: I don't think there's another resource like this out there.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: No, I don't think so.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: What a service you've done. I'm just looking. There's some
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: amazing gargoyles on this building. I'm looking at that one.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: Let's see if I can zoom in. Oh, that one
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: up there or this one.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: It is something like a toad or something up there.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: Yes, it looks like a toad. We'll be seeing some
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: more toads later on.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: And then there's also a great... Is that a dog?
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it looks like a bulldog or even like a... Yeah. Yeah.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: Looks fierce. So this, again, is another view of the
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: archive building. And is there much about Jung and the
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Jung family in this building?
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: Oh, definitely. You find all kinds of information on him.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: I'd say the bulk of it is here.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: What a beautiful building.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: And now if you turn around.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: It's just got a view of this. Oh my gosh.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: So we spoke about the wrought iron fences, which really
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: are an artistry of Basel's that you find still throughout
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: the city. and one of Karl's uncles, Rudolf, and also
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: his son did this type of artistry.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: And that's interesting to me because Jung, of course, was
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: such a talented artist and carver, so he must have
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: kind of come naturally by that.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: This is the Blue House. So there are some very
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: wealthy people in Basel due to the making of the ribbons,
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: the ribbon industry, the weaving industry, the dyeing industry. And
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: this is one, this was Lucas Saracen, a silk maker
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: who lived here. I can do it really nicely now.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: I'll see you when I get up.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: And when I get up I can do it better
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: than you do.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: I know, I know.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: One of the fascinating things about Basel is, I mean,
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember the dream, Jung's house dream,
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: where he moves through the house down.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: Of course, of course.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: Basel is like that, but it's like you have the Celts,
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: you have the Bronze Age, you have the Celts, you
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: have the Romans, you have the medieval times, you have,
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: and all those layers are seen throughout the city as
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: you walk through it.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Now, for example, this is obviously....
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: From 1403. 1403, wow. But they were just, I mean,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: we could actually go to a place where they have,
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: just down the road, Roman ruins. And I've been, throughout
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: the city when they're building, putting in new pipes, they
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: continually find old graves from Bronze Age.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: Hidden away that you don't see. This one we can
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: look into.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's so pretty. It's just, I guess it's just
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: a private home.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, exactly.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: It's a beautiful, beautiful little rose garden.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: It's a basilisk. They also, they have an animal called
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: the Dracohelphaeticus, the Swiss dragon. It's a very specific basilisk
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: that was made here. He existed here in the Middle Ages.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: So this is the basilisk, and it's holding the crest
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: of Basel, which is the bishop's staff.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, I have a dumb question, because I know they're
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: spelled differently. But does the word basilisk have any relationship
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: with Basel?
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: It has no relationship. I had to ask. Basel actually
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: has to do with crown, with, yeah, something more in
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: that direction.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: Because this is a Monday morning, apparently, Catherine told me
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: that that's why there are all the trucks, because they're
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: bringing in all the supplies for the week and replenishing
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: the stores.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: And now we're slowly walking towards the Minster. This is
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: the path that Jung would have walked, almost getting closer
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: to the gymnasium. And we'd be passing this museum on
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: the right. It was like a multiple museum. It had bones,
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: it had ethnology, it had paintings. And this is probably
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: where Jung saw his first Holbein and Böcklein and Sandreiter, painters,
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: and Sandreiter he was later influenced by.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: And you said also ethnography. So, of course, Jung was
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: interested in.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: In indigenous cultures, and would this have been a place
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: where he might have been exposed to that for the
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: first time?
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, and there's that anecdote from Memories, Dreams, Reflections where
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: he's in here with his Aunt Gusteli and it's closing,
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: the museum's closing, they have to go out a back
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: door and he suddenly stops in front of a glass
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: case and his aunt comes towards him and says, She's shocked.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: What are you looking at? And he's found an exhibition
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: of two naked people. And she's saying, you disgusting boy. Which, again,
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: is a very clear picture of how repressed the body
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: was then.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes. And I know he was interested also in
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: human evolution. I wonder if there would have been some
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: hominid fossils here as well.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: Oh, definitely. There were fossils. bones. Now it's a beautiful
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: museum with mammoths in it and it all, yeah.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: Lovely. So, and are those spires up ahead the Münster?
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: That is the Münster.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: Which is, this is the cathedral.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: Yes, it is. The cathedral.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: Such an important....
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: The cathedral, exactly, where Jung had the vision that God
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: was up above on the tower. And he let out
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: a huge turd that crashed the ceiling, crashed the beautiful tiles,
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: which we'll get a closer look at soon. This is
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: an ethnological video in itself, showing Monday morning in Basel
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: and everybody at work, doing their work. This is the,
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: right now they're having the open-air cinema on the Münsterplatz.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: So this usually is empty, but right now it has
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: the chairs for the cinema. And if you look across
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: on the other side, There's a big door that's open,
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: and that's the gymnasium where we're going to. Oh, okay.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: And so this is where Jung went to school starting
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: at about age 12.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: Exactly. From 12 until... Wow.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: It's right across from the Minster.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: Nine years.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: So Jung had walked right here, right where we're walking now.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: Exactly. That's so thrilling. Yes. We'll go have a coffee
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: at some Isak. Oh, if it's open already. It might
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: not be open yet. We'll have to find another one then.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Oh, is it still a school, the gymnasium?
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, it is school. They've started up again right now.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: And we're lucky because it is Monday. We're actually going
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: to walk into the courtyard.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: Of the gymnasium.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: We can walk down here.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: So I'm.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: Curious if this school kind of claims Jung as its star.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: It does, among other stars. So, I have a picture
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: of the door, the Gymnasium Minsterberg, and we can go
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: inside and have a look at the plaque. So here
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: we can see amongst the other people who taught at
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: the school, These were the people who went to this school,
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: and of them is Carl Jung. And who taught at
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: this school is Friedrich Nietzsche, Jakob Burckhardt. And we can
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: have a quick look into the courtyard. So this is
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: where Jung went to the gymnasium. It was then called
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: the lower and the upper gymnasium. Gymnasium meaning middle school
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: and high school. school.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: And it probably looks pretty similar to how it looked
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: when he was a student here, huh?
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, very, very. So cool.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: And so in the book, you talk about his time here.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: You have some of his schoolwork, I think, pictures of it.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: And also, as you said before, who else was in
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: his class.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: His report cards, who was in his class. Yeah.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: Again, I don't think that that's information that I've ever
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: seen in any other biography of him.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: No. People usually, they summarize that information. But I really
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: was careful to get the details, to really understand who
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: did he go to school with? What were the names
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: of the people?
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what were the influences that shaped his life? Yes, exactly.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And one of the influences, of course, right diagonally
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: across from his school is the cathedral, the minster. It
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: was initially Catholic, and then after the Reformation it became Protestant.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: Now, would he have attended services here as well?
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: Probably not. Probably because he was, he would do that
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: in Klein-Hüningen on Sundays with his dad.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: And here's this wonderful sculpture of, I guess it's St.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: George killing the dragon? Yes.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: Yes. Yes, and what's wonderful about this image is that
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: the dragon is quite small. It almost looks like a
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: puppy dog. And if you're saying that the night is
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: light and the dragon is the evil that needs to
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: be conquered, then Basel only had a little bit of evil.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you kind of feel bad for the dragon.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: You have these terrific pictures in the book that he
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: made when he was in primary school.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: Yes, there's a beautiful sketch on one of his notebooks.
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: And you see a knight on a horse riding in,
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: and then he encounters a dragon, and then he slays
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: the dragon. And after some vicious fighting, he finally rides
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: off on his horse again. So it's almost like his... West,
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: his journey. And this was drawn when he was in
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: the third or fourth class.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: Wow, wow. And then, of course, you know, as you
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: have in the book, also that incredible painting that he
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: did in the Red Book of the dragon and the
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: fight with the dragon.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: You can really get... It's such an intimate sense that
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: you get of Jung and his... influences in his early life.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: Okay, we've just passed the Minzer and we're walking down
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: Rittergasse to... is right here. And this is where Karl's grandfather,
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: Samuel Preiswerk, lived when he was the antistas. The antistas
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: was the head of the Protestant parish. He was responsible
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: for all the churches in Basel. And that means Karl's mother, Emily,
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: lived here. But she Before they lived here, they lived
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: at the Leonhardskirche. So she lived in three parishes in
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: her life.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: So it looks fairly grand.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: It's changed a bit, but this is where the Antistitium was.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: And we have on this side, behind this tree, we
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: have the statue of Ecolampad, who was the very first
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: the very first antistas.
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: Oh, I see. Yes, behind the tree.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: So following the Reformation, Eckel Lompat, who was a reformer,
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: became the first antistas, the first head of the Protestant
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: church in Basel.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: And Karl's grandfather on his mother's side, Samuel Preissach, he
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: was the 15th antistas. And he lived across in that house.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: And also from here, you can see the beautiful roof
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: tiles of the Minster.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: And this would have been the roof that God's turd
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: would have shattered.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: Exactly. It was a big insight for Jung that something
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: needed to, that he had understood something big.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: And he was struggling with his spirituality, with his relationship
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: to religion. And you could almost say he spent the
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: rest of his life working on that topic.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: I think that's one way to understand his life's work because,
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: of course, he recognized when he had his First Communion
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: that it felt empty and that his father actually didn't believe.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: I think that his experience here at this cathedral, at
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: this minster, of letting himself imagine that turd, was probably
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: more profound than any experience that he actually had at church.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: It presented to him some important questions about the nature
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: of God and his relationship with God that, as you said,
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: he continued to work on. And of course, that's wrapped
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: up in his relationship with his father.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: And with all the theologians. He's On his mother's side,
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: he had many uncles who were theologians. And as we heard,
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: he'd walk the four kilometers here. He couldn't go home
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: for lunch. So he would go stay with one of
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: his uncles over lunch. And then they would be talking
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: about theological topics. And he'd hear different perspectives. He was gaining...
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: As Mary Stein said, he must have known the Bible
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: inside and out. He had from his father, from his uncles.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: There's an entry in one of the books that I
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: found where his grades are registered. And there's three big
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: stars next to religion. And at first I thought, oh,
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: were they upset or were they happy? And I decided...
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: I think those look like excitement, like, wow, this guy
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: really knows his religion. This is the Cloister of the Minster.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: It wasn't a typical cloister. You know, the cloisters in
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: Catholic churches would have cells. There are no cells here.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: This was more the pilgrimage. People would walk around the
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: church through these pathways. Right and left, we're seeing gravestones.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: that have been put onto the wall to protect them.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: And there's a really beautiful view also from here of
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: the church.
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: And we see the Star of David, which is actually
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: an alchemical sign here on the window, the triangle pointing
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: up and the triangle pointing down.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: This is an artwork of that same artist who did Helvetia,
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: Bettina Eichen. And what it is, is it's an empty table.
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: This is to symbolize death. because on the 1st of November, 1986,
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: there was a chemical accident in Basel that almost destroyed
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: all the people in the city. Because the vats that
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: were burning could have killed the population. So as contrast,
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: she says, we were lucky we still have a full table.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: We have flowers, vegetables.
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: And here's the full table here. Oh, that's very moving.
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: Here we can see the Romanic arches, and right here
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: the Gothic arch.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: Those Romanesque arches, they're very old, right? They're kind of pre-Gothic,
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: if I recall?
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: They're pre-Gothic. And you see that the church was built
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: at different times. It started way back in 800, and
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: it was built over many years. And it is now 1,500
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: years old.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh. And these are more of the Romanesque arches?
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: Yes, Romanesque.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: Gothic arches.
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: Oh, wow.
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we can walk along here and get a view
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: of the water.
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: So, again, when Jung lived here, probably the tallest building
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: would have been, my guess is, the Minster.
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: Yes, definitely, definitely, definitely.
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: Again, this is the backside of the Minster. Okay, so
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: this is another view of the Basel Minster.
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: And we're looking at a rosette. And I particularly like
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: it because it shows sort of the wheel of life.
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: You're seeing people on a roulette wheel going up. And
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: when they reach 12, they're tumbling down on their heads
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: until they move up again. The cycle of.
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: Life, maybe.
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: The cycle of life.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: So this is one of the oldest doors. And we're
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: just admiring the stone masonry, which of course became an
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: interest and a skill at Jung's. And these are biblical
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: stories that are told in the stone.
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: So particularly when people were not literate, they could read,
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: they could view the stone. They could read the stone.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: They could read the stories from the stone. There's a
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: dragon I'd like to show you. Oh, yes.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: Let's find the dragon. So this must be very old.
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: Yes, they unearthed it from an earlier part of the church.
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: And it's a dragon with a red head. And, of course,
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: the dragon then symbolized evil. It was that duality between
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: good and evil, which Jung actually then described. helped us
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: understand that we need to integrate our evil and not
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: separate ourselves from the evil. So that's our shadow. We
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: need to look at our shadow. What's interesting here is
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: you have the pulpit right above. So you have the
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: good and sort of pointing down to the earth with
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: the evil.
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: And of course we know there's so much energy in
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: the shadow. And dragons, of course, are an image of
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: incredibly potent psychic energy. So we have to work on
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: our relationship with it.
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: In the crypt, we'll see the different times that the
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: church was built, the different phases. Maria? Maria? and her
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: mother Anna, and the Christ child.
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: So these are on the ceiling down here.
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: Frescoes.
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: They must be very old. A sarcophagus. Yes, from 917.
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: Bischof Rudolf von den Heiden erschlagen. He was killed by
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: the pagans.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: And there's a nativity right above.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: Old frescoes that are being recovered. We were talking about
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: the medieval city and now we get a real taste
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: of that. Up on the hill is an Augustinian canon monastery.
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: Is that the That's that. It looks like a castle
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: on the top. I'm going to walk down this way
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: and have a coffee. It's time. It's about time.
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: Catherine and I are here sort of in the middle
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: of Basel.
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: We're waiting for our....
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: And what did you just order for me?
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: I ordered you actually a Cioccolato Milano, but it sounded
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: good because it has chocolate and coffee. And you're going
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: to get a Chocchi Vecchi. Okay, which is what? A chocolate,
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: a bread with chocolate inside.
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: So I'm getting chocolate and chocolate.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: Yes, you're getting chocolate and chocolate.
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: Sounds like my kind of morning. So, and we have
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: your book here. So just tell me, how did you
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: come to write the book, or what made you want
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: to write it, or... Tell me the story of the book.
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: Okay. The story of the book is it organically grew.
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: I was giving tours for students at our school. Even
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: when I was a student, okay, the ISAF, International School
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: of Analytical Psychology. And they'd come to Basel and we'd
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: do a tour. And each time I'd add something new
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: to it. And my notes started getting bigger and bigger.
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: And then I suddenly started realizing... Oh, is this actually
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: historically correct? Shouldn't I check that? And I started doing
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: more research. And then with time, I thought, well, there's
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: even more that I want to tell about things. I
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: got curious. I wanted to understand more. And that's when
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: I went to the Staatsarchiv, the state archive, and I
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: started doing research into Jung and finding about his stories.
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: you know, his documents from school, who did he go
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: to school with. I spent a lot of time going
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: through his university courses, which was and wasn't that full
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: of information, but I had to figure out where did
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: he go to medical studies. And I had an erroneous
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: idea that he went to the old university, and then
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: I found out, no, that was his grandfather who went there.
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: It got too small by the time his grandfather had
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: been so successful. The medical classes were large, and they
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: needed more space. And that's when they built the Vesaliano,
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: and that's where he studied anatomy and physiology. Oh, and
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: look at what's coming.
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh.
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Wow, this looks really delicious. The chocolate. Put
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: the book away so I don't spill chocolate on it.
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: And do you have the same thing? What do you have?
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: I took the exact same thing because I ordered for
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: you what I like. So it's actually a hot chocolate,
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: but it also has coffee inside.
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: Oh, nice.
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: And this is like a croissant with chocolate inside. Oh, boy.
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: Yes. So we've just done tour one and a bit
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: of tour of another tour. But there's actually five tours
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: in the book. So that you haven't seen everything. And
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: it looks that every tour... These are the five tours,
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: tour one, tour two, tour three, tour four, tour five.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: Each tour has its own feeling. They're based chronologically, so
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: you're moving from childhood to adolescence to adulthood, and then
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: actually also after. The last chapter is about Nietzsche and
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: Jung's relationship to Nietzsche in Basel and Hesse. In Basel,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: even though he didn't know Nietzsche, he never met Nietzsche,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: but there were connections that he had to him in Basel.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: And Hesse, he did have a connection to, Hesse was
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: also from Basel. And so there's, yeah, he also was
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: doing analysis with Bernhard Lang, Jungian analysis, and he met Jung.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: And two exceptional people. I mean, Hesse ended up having a,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: getting a Nobel literature prize, a literature prize. And Probably,
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: there may have been a bit of crossover when Nietzsche
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: came back when he was ill. He stayed at the
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: Friedmatt Asylum, psychiatric clinic.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: Is that near here?
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: And that's outside of Basel. That's where his father worked
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: as a sail, taking care of souls of people. He
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: worked with people there. We call it sail sorker. So
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: he's taking, he's a counselor at the Friedman.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: Nietzsche's father was.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: No, no, I'm sorry. This is Jung's father, Paul.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay, got it, yes. He's like a pastoral counselor.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: Pastoral counselor.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: And there was a moment when Nietzsche came back that
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: there might have been a slight crossover. Jung was still
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: studying medicine. His dad might have been counseling there, and
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: Nietzsche was in an institution there. So there was some...
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: And so the fifth tour is actually that connection of
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: Jung with other figures in Basel. The first tour is
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: about his childhood and adolescence. The second tour is his
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: walk from Klein-Hüningen to Basel with two different options to
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: go through. The third one is when he gets to
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: Basel and he's at the gymnasium and he's at the church.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: And we're still on that journey right now. We'll be
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: going up to where his mother lived. where she was born,
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: we saw where she lived later on when her father
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: was Antistas. We're going to go to the Vesalianum, where
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: Jung studied medicine. So we're talking about the book. What's
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: interesting about the book, too, is that it's not just.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: A walking guide.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: It's not just a historical book. but I've been sure
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: to put a lot of detail into the book. For example,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: these are the students that Jung went to middle and
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: high school with. Or there's when he went to medical school,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: where did he go to medical school? So there are
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: 13 different locations that he went to medical school. First,
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: there's a list. It's here you see where and what.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: And in the other side, you see where those institutes were.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: And then there's.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 5: It's also, I said, you get to know Jung's visions, dreams,
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 5: and paintings.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: So those are also... It's chock full of paintings and
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: descriptions of dreams and where they took place in Basel.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: And then we have the family trees. So I really
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: took a lot of time to work through the family trees,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: making clear trees that we can understand. Where did Jung's
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: 64 cousins... 64 cousins? Which families were they from?
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: And this is, for example, one of those images.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: And.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: It helps because then finally when I made this map,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: it shows where the different families, preiswerk and jung families
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: lived in Basel. So you see they were all over
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: the place. And I'm sure I didn't even list all
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: of them.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: And are there still members of the preiswerk and jung
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: families here in Basel?
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: Of the Prizak family, I'm sure of. Of the Jung family,
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: I'm not so sure. I met up with Prizak members.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: One of them gave me an image of the iron work.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: Another one gave me information about what he knew about
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: the stories. And I'm sure the Prizak family is their...
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: from Basel, they were old family from Basel, and they're
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: all over in the cities, too. The Jung family migrated
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: more towards Zurich then.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: Towards Zurich. Yeah, I guess most of his children and
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: grandchildren are sort of in the Zurich area more now.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: Yes. Plus, I guess, you know, in the Jung family,
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: there were less relatives than on the Preiswerk family. There
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: are 10 cousins on the Jung family, and there were
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: 54 on the Preiswerk family.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: Now, and does the Preiswerk family kind of claim him proudly?
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: Are they proud to be associated with him? Maybe.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: I'm not so sure. There was the question, you know,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: He did go to Zurich. He didn't, you know, that
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: was almost like a betrayal to the apostle. But there
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: was also the question about the seances that Christ's works
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: were not always that happy with.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: How that got portrayed.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, how it got portrayed.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Yeah, because of course, you know, he wrote his,
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: I guess it was kind of like his dissertation or
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: his thesis about these seances that he was doing with
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: It was his cousin, right?
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: Yes, with Heli, Heli Preisser.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: And that would have been at the university here.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: Well, when he was at the university, but it was
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: out when... So when his father died, he then went
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: out to Votmingermühle, which is in Binningen. That's another four
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: kilometers outside of the city. So he had to wander
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: out there and wander back.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: And is that included in the book as well?
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: Yes, that is. That tour is included in there. Plus
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: there's the... the incidents surrounding the séances, because the séances were,
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: they then lived in this creaky old Alsatian house, which
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: was a beautiful place for a haunted, and a haunted atmosphere.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: And this was, so this was after, right, this was
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: after his father died, because they would have had to
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: leave the parsonage.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and he was living out there with his
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: mother and his sister, and downstairs was his aunt Gustelie.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: And in a house next to there was an uncle
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: who moved in. He built a house on that land
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: as well. The house had belonged to another uncle of his.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: Helly was the main medium. And Jung wrote his dissertation
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: on these seances, trying to understand what does it have
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: to do with the mind. And he was doing interesting
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: research on sonambulism, trying to understand epilepsy, hysteria, and fear. Unfortunately,
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: when he described the seances, he was not too careful
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: in how he camouflaged his medium. And it came out
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: that that was Helly. Helly then left Basel. But it wasn't,
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: as some people say, oh, she left in shame. She
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: actually went down to southern France and became... got a
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: seamstress education. She came, went to Paris, worked as a seamstress,
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: haute couture, and came back to Basel and had opened
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: a business with her sister on Eschenplatz, and that's called,
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: that was called Damenkonfektion, Walli & Pelli, Kreiswerk. And so
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: she was a successful businesswoman. Unfortunately, she died of tuberculosis.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: At that time, One in five people were dying of tuberculosis.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: You know, and it's so interesting, of course, because that
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: dissertation was kind of the beginning of his thinking about,
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: let's say, individuation and even the self, because what he noticed,
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: as I recall, is that the medium, his cousin, kind
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: of took on a very different personality.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, she did.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: And he theorized that that was sort of a potential
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: future possibility that was already inherent in her. that was
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: kind of revealed in the seance. So it was kind
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: of his first intimation. The sort of telos and the
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: future development of the personality and even the sense of
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: individuation or the self.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: Though she was also taking on the voice of her grandfather,
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: Samuel Preiswerk, and she also took on the voice of Jung,
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: Carl Jung's father, and she brought messages back from them. Which, yeah.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: And of course, the tone of the dissertation is very scientific.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: But we have to imagine that Jung was interested in
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: that phenomenon probably from a couple of different perspectives. He
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: always was sort of led publicly with a kind of
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: scientific attitude. But he was really interested in these non-rational.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: Experiments as well. In the book, I have the list
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: of the books that he read when he was at
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: secondary school, middle school, high school. And you see the
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: many different books that he read on.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: The paranormal, on seances, on mediums. He was fascinated by
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: that topic. And you can say his research afterwards was
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: really making sense of this. And working with schizophrenics or
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: working with hysterics, understanding what's psyche, what's another state, what
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: are these different states that the mind can get into. Mm-hmm.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: So now we're taking the elevator up to the Augustinian cloister,
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: which then later became a prison. And you can see
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: the big, thick walls here. And in the Augustinian cloister,
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: there were cells for the monks, for the prisoners. They
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: also had cells. And now you can be a hotel
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: guest and stay in one of these cells.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: And here we are.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: We're coming out into the hotel. into the center of
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: the old monastery. And here there's, these are apartments where
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: people are now living. And up here in these rooms,
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: these are the cells of the, where the prisoners once were,
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: or the monks. Now there's a music museum. It's the,
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: expats have their center here in this building. And we're
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: passing the Leonhardskirche, St. Leonhards Church. And this is where
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: Karl's grandfather, Samuel Preyserk, where he worked before he went
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: over to the Minster, became the antistess.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: So watch out for this.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: So now you can get a beautiful image of this church. Also,
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: Another uncle of Jung's works here.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: Because his family was clergy on both sides, right?
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: More on the prize-backed side. So Paul Jung was the
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: only theologian.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: On the Jung side. Right, because his grandfather had been a... Doctor, correct?
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: Yes. Yes.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: Yes. His father had been a doctor and even his grandfather. Right.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: So Jung's great-grandfather. Right.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: Now, number one here, where these people are standing in
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: front of, that is where Emily lived when she was,
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: that's the parsonage, the house that belongs to St. Leonards. Okay.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: Emily Young's mother, is this where she was born and
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: grew up?
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: Wow. Wow. And her father worked in this beautiful church
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: back here.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: A little surprising to me that there's no plaque.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: No plaque, no.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: Commemorating.
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: Well, you know. There were many antistas. He was number 15,
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: and there's been many after him.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: Well, I meant commemorating Jung's mother.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: But maybe.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: Most people in Basel are not as interested in the
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: details of Jung's life as I am.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: What you can see here, they have two other walking tours.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: They're called Old Town Walking Tours 2 and 3. And
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: what they usually are, it's like, Pestalozzi, other Erasmus, those
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: are the people that they're following in the footsteps of.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: And we're going to walk down now the Heiberg, which
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: means Hay Hill.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: We're staying up now on the hill, and we're going
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: towards the Vesaliano.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: Okay. Passing once again Emily Priestwork's house. Maybe I'm pronouncing
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: it wrong. Priesswerk? Preisswerk?
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: Preisswerk.
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: Preisswerk. I want to work on that.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: Basel was a walled city. So this is one of
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: the last doors. They had to take down the walls
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: so that the city could expand. Because it was, with
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: the walls, it wasn't quite a large city at all.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: But you can really see the medieval nature of the city.
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, now where is this?
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: So we're at Vesal, Gaza, just before we go down
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: to the Vesaliano, where Jung studied medicine. Andreas Vesalius. So
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: the building is named after Andreas Vesalius, who is a
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: famous anatomist and surgeon who lived in 1514, 1564.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: And he was the one who, at the old university,
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: at the Anatomicum, where he did his dissections in front
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: of students and the public. Ah, okay. This is the
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: entrance to the Vesalianum. This is where Jung studied anatomy
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: and physiology. It was built just a few years before
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: he started medicine. And in the commemorative brochure, which was
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: presented at the opening of the Vesalianum, was a picture
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: of Karl's grandfather. Because Karl's grandfather was being commemorated as
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: the person who resurrected the medical faculty at the University
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: of Basel.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: Wow, so he was following in some pretty big footsteps.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: And I wonder, you know, he had that, he talks
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: about it in Memories, Dreams, Reflections, he talks about his
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: decision about what to study.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: Right, right.
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: And I wonder, it must have been hard not to
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: choose medicine, given who his, I guess....
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: His grandfather and his great-grandfather were medical doctors. There's a
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: bit of a paradox in there because in Memories, Dreams,
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: Reflections he said he had two dreams which showed him
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: the directions as if he didn't really know which direction
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: he wanted to take. But his friend, Albert Uri, said
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: he always knew he.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: Wanted to study medicine.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: He was predestined after having a grandfather and a great-grandfather
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: who went in that direction. He knew he didn't want
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: to study theology. At one point, he made that decision.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: He would have liked archaeology.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: But there is no faculty for that here then.
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: We're at the Botanical Garden of Basel. Right, the one
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: right close to the university. And as we turn this corner,
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: we're gonna see how the botanical garden sort of grows
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: directly into the university library, which is all along this
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: side in here.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: But you mean that old building up there?
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: That old building and the modern building are the university library.
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: So it's built right adjacent to the library.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: And this botanical garden would have been here when Jung
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: was a student?
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: Yes, it would have. have. And we're going to cross
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: right over here.
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I love botanical gardens.
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: Yes. This is really charming. And it's tiny, but look,
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: here you get a good view of the library. All
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: these rooms are like stacks and stacks and stacks of books.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: You walk through, you have to go pick up your books.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: You walk through like different layers of books.
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: And so again, Jung would have been using that library. Yes.
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: Do we have any sense of, you know, like the
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: records of the books that he would have checked out?
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: Yes, we do. And That's thanks to Sona Shamdasani, who
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: did research here. And he researched what were the books
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: that Jung checked out when he was a medical student.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: And that's why we have a list of that in
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: the book.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, so in your book.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: It's in my book.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: There's a list of the books that Jung would have
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: checked out from this library.
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: That's so cool.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: See, this is great because we can do things that
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: I don't do on the tours. Because it'd be too
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: much just to work. Okay, so this is the greenhouse.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: This is a greenhouse that was built during the time
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: when Jung was a medical student. And it was in
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: honor of Queen Victoria. And in the middle of it
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: is the lotus called Victoria Regius. And it's one greenhouse
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: made only for these, for these lotuses.
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. So those are lotuses. I see an
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: enormous kind of purple flower.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: And it's a round pool. And in the middle, You
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: can see those beautiful lotus blossoms. Oh, now they've just
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: started putting some mist in here.
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was trying to get a better, closer shot
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: of that sort of beautiful pink blossom there. And so again,
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: you know, we can imagine that Jung might have visited
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: this place. And that it might have looked something like this.
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 6: They call it the Victoria House. And it's for the
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 6: Victoria Regia. And they say that it's so fascinating, the
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 6: type of flower.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: It says that in the night it will produce an
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: aroma so that the insects will come. It opens up.
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: It closes twice in the first night, and then it
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 2: turns colors to pink, from white to pink. And under
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 2: the water, pea large seeds.
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 4: Grow, which helps them stay on the surface, I guess.
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 4: So now it's pink. There's one that's pink.
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: Beautiful. Interesting.
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: I've never actually seen one blooming. These are all so beautiful.
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by all of the tiny fish everywhere. Really?
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: You see? Well, see how the water is.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: Those are little fish.
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: Lots of fish. And then even over here. You can
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: see it on the video, but there's lots of little fish.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: So there's the Victoria House that we were just in,
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: and then behind it is the modern, that's also part
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: of the library?
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's the library, the reading room where people sit
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: and read. And on the right-hand side is where the
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: stacks and stacks and stacks, a book on layers and
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: layers and layers. And if you need to get a book,
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: you go wander through there to find it, pick it up,
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: and you bring it back to check it out. This is...
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: a renowned place for Jungians because it has to do
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: with Jung's Liverpool dream. The Liverpool dream was that he
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: describes moving from the Marktplatz up the Totengast line, alley
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 2: of the dead, up to the Petersplatz. So this is
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 2: the Petersplatz. And in the middle of the Petersplatz, where
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 2: we're now moving towards, is where he In his dream,
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: he saw an island, and on the island there was
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 2: a tree with a magnolia tree, and the magnolia tree
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 2: was blooming luminously.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 2: And the other people in his group did not notice
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: what he was seeing. And people get, you know, why
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 2: was it called the Liverpool dream? Well, Liverpool... can be
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: symbolically seen as the liver is a place where the
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: hemoglobin is. It's the pool of life. So the liver pool,
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: the pool of life. And he described this square, it's
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: a square, and in the middle is a circle. And
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 2: we're moving towards that circle where the magnolia tree would
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 2: have stood.
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: Now the dream is supposedly set in Liverpool. But he
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: says in Memory Streams Reflections that it reminded him of this.
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: And he's very specific about that. Right. I think he's
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: supposed to be with other Swiss people and they say,
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: I don't understand why anyone would settle here. And he
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: sees this beautiful tree that's as if it's lit from within.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: And he said, I know very well why someone would
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: settle here. And that was his.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: Kind of first intimation of the self as the center
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: of wholeness.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: The archetype of orientation and meaning. And we'll go stand
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 2: right in the middle of it, maybe. And feel the
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: luminosity of this space.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: Here we are, approaching the center of it.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: Somebody's even marked it with chalk. Yeah, there's a mandala
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: right here. Somebody's drawn a mandala right here. So Jung
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 2: had that dream, and then afterwards in the Red Book,
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: he drew this drawing, which he called The Window on Eternity.
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: And this is an image of that beautiful numinous tree
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: in the middle, and the different walkways, which we see.
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 2: There's only... four walkways here now but he also in
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 2: the black book he had he drew the image of
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: again the island with the tree and he has streets
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: and houses he says at the same time a good
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 2: friend of his had died hermann sick had died of
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 2: a spinal puncture and it's interesting that this looks very
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 2: much like a spine as well there's something so there's
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 2: the life and death in this image of the luminosity
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 2: of the spirit and the knowledge that one of his
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: very good dear friends had died but it was also
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 2: the culmination of his work because after this he says
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: he moved away from working on the red book and
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: he said now it's time to put all i've learned
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: into my theory, bring it to life in a different way.
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: And as you said, this image, the culmination, as I've
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: written here, the realization that the self is the goal
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: of individuation. The sketch was based on the dream that
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: mentions Peterplatz and Totengesslein. The basis for Jung's last mandala drawing,
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: Window on Eternity.
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: Wow, that was his last, wow.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: And progression was not linear but involved a circumambulation of
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: the self. It was now time for him to consolidate
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 2: these insights into his life and science.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: And just to place us, that's the botanical garden right there? Exactly.
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 2: With the greenhouse with the Victoria Regius in the middle.
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: Then on this side we're seeing the new Collegium, the
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: new University main building. Behind it is the Vesalianum. And
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: on this side, we're seeing his great aunt's home. She
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 2: lived in number 29. It's like the brown door on
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 2: the right where that bicycle rider is just passing. Then
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 2: we have Petruskirche, the Petrus church. We have diverse other homes, buildings,
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 2: buildings that belong to the university. And up in the
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: left-hand corner, right at this corner, which we can't see into, across...
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 2: On the one hand side is the university library with
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 2: all the book stacks. On the other side is the Bernoullianum.
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: And the Bernoullianum was the center for physics, chemistry, and anatomy.
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: And that is where his uncle Johannes Preiswerk worked for
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: 30 years. And where Karl's cousin Mathis lived. And Mathis Preiswerk.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 2: went to school with him at the gymnasium. So he
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 2: was listed. That's what I saw when I listed all
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: the students. I saw that his cousin actually studied with him.
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 2: So that was one of those discoveries. You go, oh, wow.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: And he was the same age. So he actually had
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: three cousins who were of the same age as he.
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: So it's a numinous spot here. A culmination, a bringing together...
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 2: from different directions which these paths are showing. Actually, if
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: you look on the ground, I never saw this, they
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: are different, they are leading off into different directions. Even
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 2: though the paths no longer extend further, they are marked.
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 2: Exactly as he said on the image, these pathways. It's
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 2: also a very lively place. On the weekend, on Saturday,
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 2: this is where they have the flea market. And it's
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: then full of people all around the edges. People are
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: selling their wares. And this is where all the students
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: walk through on their way to the university, to the library,
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: or to different faculties. We're at the top of Nadelberg.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 2: Here's the Petersplatz. And we're just about to walk down
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 2: the Totengestlein, or Alley of the Dead.
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: Right, which he mentions as he discusses that Liverpool dream.
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. And the reason, the meaning behind the term
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 2: is that the people would carry the coffins up the
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 2: stairs to the church, to the cemetery. That's why it
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: was called Alley of the Dead.
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: And I've always, you know, that Liverpool dream is so
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: important and I've read it so many times. And so
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 1: I've had always an imagination of what the alley of
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: the dead in Basel might look like.
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: Does it look like what you imagined?
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, in his dream it's dark and rainy
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: and here we are on this beautiful sunny day. So
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: that doesn't match. But otherwise, yeah, I mean, he talks
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: about the stairs going down. And so it's really meaningful.
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: to be here and to.
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 2: See it. Yeah. And to realize that you're walking down
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 2: the alley of the dead. And before you get to
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 2: the end of it, you come to the Pharmaceutical Historical Museum.
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 2: But before that, it was a printing location before that
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 2: I mean way back it was a bath it's where
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 2: people would come to have their public bath men and
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 2: women would bathe in the same bathtub so there's the
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: public bath then it turns into the um a printing
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 2: location where Froben who is a printer had his printing
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: press and where oh it's closed it's too early or
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 2: what is it it's 12 they have lunch Oh, 10
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: to 7, it's Monday. Oh, it's Monday.
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: It's Monday.
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 2: It's closed.
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: But that's the pharmaceutical museum. Now, is there any information
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: about alchemy in there?
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 2: Yes. Yes, there's the alchemy museum. They have an alchemy laboratory.
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: In this museum? Yes. There's a room you can go
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: into and you see the early forms of healing. For example,
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: just one example, they had like stamps, and on the
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 2: stamp was a picture of Maria. And then you could
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 2: tear off one of the stamps and eat it.
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: Oh, gosh.
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: And then you would be imbibed by Maria's energy that
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 2: would heal you.
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: So I think you discuss some of this in the book,
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: and there's even some pictures. Is that right?
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: There's pictures of the alchemy laboratory.
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 2: And there's the inner courtyard. I think what's interesting about that,
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: they have a herbal garden. Then when you walk into
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 2: the main room, they have all the dried plants that
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 2: you can buy. And then you go up to the
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 2: first floor, and then they have all those healing methods.
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: And on that floor, you also see two different alchemy laboratories.
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 2: Whereas one, they say, is the earlier alchemy and one's
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 2: already going into chemistry.
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 2: And I think what one needs to say about the
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: Alchemy Museum is that, so there's another, of course there's
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 2: a connection to Jung.
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 2: So he went to school, when he was going to school,
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: Anton Hefliger was a pharmaceutical student. They were colleagues and
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 2: they got to know each other and particularly later in
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 2: life they were writing letters to each other and Jung
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 2: was asking him questions about alchemy because Hefliger had his
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 2: own pharmacy and had become an expert in pharmacy and alchemy.
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 2: He was a collector and he was the one who
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 2: started this museum. Wow. Anton Heflicher started by giving his
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 2: jars and his specimens and everything he had, his collection,
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 2: he started the Pharmaceutical Historical Museum. And Jung was in
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 2: contact with him. So that's how that works again. And
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 2: Jung came here in his 30s, and he was doing
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 2: research at the library about alchemy, looking at the rare
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 2: alchemy books in the library.
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: So we're just coming down from the Toten Gesslein, the
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: Alley of the Dead. And I think that this is the.
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 2: Square where the market was. The market place. Looks like
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 2: Monday there's no market. Usually there's a market every morning.
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: And there's this beautiful building. You can see the bell
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: ringing up there.
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 7: So this beautiful building is the town hall.
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: So this is in the courtyard of the town hall.
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 2: We'll go up the stairs. Those are also wonderful. You
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: have to look at the faces on the windows.
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: Oh gosh, yes.
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 2: All the different faces looking at.
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: They're all different.
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: Hmm. So. hmm so.
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: What are these paintings are.
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: Well they're saying this is the the youngest it's.
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 7: Not what I said the plague I wonder where that
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 7: picture is because this is more you know when they
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 7: separate the The people should go to hell for.
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: The ones who go to heaven. Okay, like the last judgment.
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 2: The last judgment.
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 2: The last judgment.
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: I can see.
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 2: But look at this. Very funny. See this one who's
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 2: almost deciding who has, like, the mask of a basilisk,
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 2: the face of a basilisk. And you know that during
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 2: the past time, they would wear these masks with a
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 2: long beak so that seemingly then they felt that that
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 2: gave them some protection. Exactly. Yeah. interesting. That's probably why
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 2: I associated this with the plague.
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: Again, I can imagine Jung coming here and.
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 2: This is Daniel brings Susanna's own children's light. Daniel brings
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 2: Susanna's innocence to light. Interesting, there are also those, almost
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 2: like mermaids. I mean, what are they doing up there?
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 2: These symbols, you know, full of symbols.
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: And these symbols that, you know, some of which are
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 1: very Christian, but many of which are not.
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 2: Very pagan.
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 2: On the outside, I don't know if you saw, there
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: was like the green man. The green man was like
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 2: a symbol of a vegetative.
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 2: Like nature. Yeah. He has hair, like green hair.
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: We're still in the town hall. I'm just really... I'm
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 1: impressed by how beautiful it is.
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: So this is an original flag bearer. It was a
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 2: figure that was on the outside of one of the
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 2: houses in Basel on the Marktplatz.
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: And what year is he from? Does it say there? 1510.
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 2: Wow. It's with a typical knight. Knight garb.
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, this is a detail of the town hall. And
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 1: it's pointing out and it's the kind of the green man.
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's a symbol of the green man. And this
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 2: symbol is, you could almost say it's a symbol of nature.
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 2: It's a man with green growing out of his mouth
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 2: and out of his ears. Something very pagan, but very
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 2: natural about nature. On this side, we can even see
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 2: the great leaves. And there are many other cities that
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 2: also have this symbol of the green man.
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 1: Catherine and I have finished our tour, and we are
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: now on the train back to Zurich. where we're going
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: to go to some sessions at the International Congress. And so, Catherine,
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 1: I just want to say thank you so much for
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: that private tour of Basel. That was very special. And
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: there once again is the book, C.G. Jung, The Basel Years,
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 1: A Walking Tour. And I just want to say it's
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 1: so much more than a walking tour. It's really a
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 1: detailed history of Jung's early life. And so just so
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 1: appreciative for this incredible resource that you've offered us.
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: And I am so grateful to you, Lisa, that you
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 2: took the time. We took a few hours going through
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 2: the city and looking at everything. And I thank you
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 2: very much for your interest in promoting the book that's
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 2: so important to me. Like you said, it's a book
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 2: that isn't just a walking guide. It's a history and
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 2: it has so much depth. information that wasn't presented in
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 2: other biographies
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: Until now so it's a wonderful resource that you've offered
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 1: and I'm glad to share it with our subscribers so
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 1: thanks thank you