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Acupuncture Pre & Post Embryo Transfer: Is it worth it? · The Holistic Fertility Show

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Imagine for a second that you are, well, standing right at the intersection of hypermodern medical science and ancient traditional practice.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell Yeah, that is definitely a stark contrast to picture.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like you are going through a highly clinical, technologically advanced medical procedure, one with microscopes, incubators, and cutting-edge laboratory science.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's an incredibly intense environment for anyone to be in.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: So you are lying in a sterile room, surrounded by monitors, just waiting for a frozen embryo to be meticulously transferred into your body.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: And as you prepare for this, you know, this incredibly modern intervention, you have to ask yourself a question.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Which is when you are going through something so advanced, could a 2,000-year-old practice actually move the needle on your chances of success?
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell I mean, it is such a fascinating question.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because you have the ultimate expression of Western medicine happening in a pristine clinic, right next to a holistic modality that predates microscopes by millennia.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell Yeah.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Thousands of years before IVF was even a concept.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell Exactly.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: And for a long time, the dialogue around combining these two worlds just relied on anecdotal advice.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus So people saying, oh, you know, try this supplement or my friend did this therapy and it worked for her.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: But in a world of absolute information overload, what you actually need to make informed decisions is concrete data.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell Well, getting that concrete data is exactly the mission for this deep dive.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: We are going to unpack a really fascinating 2022 retrospective cohort study.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Put together by Kate Philippi and her research team, right?
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell Yes, exactly.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: We are going to analyze the hard numbers on whether individualized acupuncture on the exact day of a frozen embryo transfer, which is often called an FET, actually affects live birth rates.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell Which is so valuable.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: We aren't just looking at a handful of stories here.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: No, not at all.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: We are looking at thousands of records to see if this ancient practice holds up under modern statistical scrutiny.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell So to really understand the results, we first have to understand exactly how the researchers set up this massive comparison.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: We have to look at the blueprint.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's unpack this because the scope is pretty wild.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell It really is.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: So this took place at the VIOS Fertility Institute in Chicago, Illinois.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: And they looked at records from May 2018 to May 2021.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell So a solid three-year window.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: And out of a total of 2,330 patients, the vast majority just did the FES ET alone.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Just standard clinical protocol.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: That was 1,751 patients.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: But the remaining 579 received a very specific protocol of individualized acupuncture.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: And the timing of that acupuncture is what really caught my eye.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it wasn't just random sessions weeks before.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: It was done on site for exactly 30 minutes before the embryo transfer and then immediately after the transfer for another 30 minutes.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: The precise peritransfer window.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: It is highly targeted.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it kind of reminds me of a high-stakes athletic event.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's an interesting way to look at it.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: How so?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, think about going into a major game.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Doing the transfer without any preparation is like just showing up to play cold.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: Your muscles are tight.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: You aren't primed.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell Right.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: You are risking a pulled muscle or poor performance.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell Exactly.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: But the acupuncture right before is like having a specialized physical therapist giving you a highly targeted warmup right before you step onto the field.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then the session afterwards is the cooldown.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: A specialized tool down the second you step off the field to lock in the benefits and prevent cramping.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: That analogy actually maps really well to the physiological reality of the uterus during a transfer.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's a muscle, right?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: It is a dynamic organ, yes.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: It is prone to muscular contractions and fluctuations in blood flow, which can be triggered just by the stress of the medical procedure itself.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell So the acupuncture acts like a warm-up and cool down to keep the uterus from essentially cramping up.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Precisely.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: It is meant to optimize receptivity and then stabilize the body.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: But because this was a retrospective study, looking back at existing records, the two groups weren't perfectly identical.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't randomly assign people.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: The patients chose whether to get the acupuncture.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: So before we can judge the outcomes, we have to look closely at who is actually in the acupuncture group versus the FET only group.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: Which brings us to the demographics.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: And what's fascinating here is what we see in table one of the source data.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: The demographic differences are pretty surprising.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: How so?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the acupuncture group was actually slightly older on average.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Their mean age was 35.2 years compared to 33.9 years for the group that didn't do acupuncture.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, wait, 35.2 versus 33.9?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: And even more striking, the acupuncture group had significantly higher rates of diminished ovarian reserve.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was 30.2% compared to just 19.9% in the FAT alone group.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell Let me stop you there.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because in the fertility world, being older and having diminished ovarian reserve usually means you have a much harder road ahead.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Those are major clinical hurdles.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, doesn't that mean the acupuncture group essentially started with a handicap?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they were fighting an uphill battle compared to the other group before the transfer even happened.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell That is exactly what the data suggests.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: They also had higher rates of ovulatory diagnoses, sitting at 20.7% versus 13.7%.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell So they were older, had lower ovarian reserve, and more ovulatory issues.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Now the FETI alone group did have some of their own challenges.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: For instance, they had more multiple diagnoses, about 28.2% versus 12.6%.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so a bit more complexity in diagnoses for the non-acupuncture group.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell Right.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: And they also had a higher percentage of day five embryo transfers.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: It was 89.6% for the FE key alone group versus 79.6% for the acupuncture group.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: And day five embryos are generally considered slightly better for implantation than day six, right?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell Generally speaking, yes, it can be a subtle advantage.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: But the crucial equalizer here is the total number of embryos transferred.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell Which was basically the same between the two groups.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Virtually identical.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: The acupuncture group transferred a mean of 1.14 embryos, and the FE alone group transferred 1.1 sick.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so they both transferred basically one embryo.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: So you had the acupuncture group skewing slightly older with significantly higher rates of diminished reserve.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Logic would tell us their success rates should probably be lower.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, here's where it gets really interesting, because the data tells a completely different, highly encouraging story.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: It really flips that logical assumption on its head.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Let me drop the headline numbers here.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: The live birth rate for the group without acupuncture was 37.1%.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: But the live birth rate for the acupuncture group was 47.8%.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Which is a massive jump.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Almost an 11% absolute difference.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: And if we look at the statistical weight of this, it translates to an odds ratio of 1.55.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: Meaning what exactly for the listener?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: It means a massive 55% increase in the likelihood of a live birth.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: A 55% increase?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: That is wild.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: It really is.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: And the statistical confidence is ironclad, but there was also a secondary crucial finding that we have to talk about.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, the biochemical pregnancies.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: There was a 42% reduction in biochemical pregnancies, which gives an odds ratio of 0.58.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's make sure we are totally clear on the terminology.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Based on the text, what is the exact definition of a biochemical pregnancy?
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: According to the source, a biochemical pregnancy refers to an early pregnancy loss that is detected only by blood testing.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: So this is before you can even see anything on an ultrasound.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: The embryo implants just enough to produce the pregnancy hormone, HCG, but then stops developing very shortly after.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: And the acupuncture group saw a massive drop in those early losses.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: They really did.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: It dropped down to just 6.7% in the acupuncture group versus 11.0% in the FET only group.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: So they didn't just have more babies born, they had significantly fewer of those heartbreaking early losses.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's a dual benefit.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: And going back to the athletic warm-up analogy, if the uterus is cramping or not getting enough blood flow, it makes sense that optimizing that environment would prevent the embryo from failing right at the start.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: By downregulating the nervous system during that critical window, the acupuncture likely gives the embryo the stability it needs to establish a blood supply.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell That makes so much sense.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, while the increases in live births and the drops in early losses are massive, to be truly well informed, we also have to look at where the acupuncture did not make a statistical difference.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: That is a very important point.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't a magic wand for everything.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: So looking at the standard clinical miscarriages, meaning losses that happen later, after an ultrasound confirmation, the rates were virtually identical.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell Yes.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: About 9.7% for the acupuncture group and 9.2% for the FET alone group.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Statistically, there was no difference.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell And ectopic pregnancies were exactly the same too, right?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.5% for both cohorts.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Which is honestly fascinating because it perfectly aligns with the biology.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, a later stage miscarriage is usually due to chromosomal issues with the embryo itself.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: A 30-minute warm-up isn't going to change the genetics of the embryo.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell That is spot on.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Acupuncture cannot fix a genetic abnormality.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: It only optimized the immediate physical environment for implantation.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell Which makes the data so much more believable.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: It did exactly what it logically should do and nothing more.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: It reinforces the specific mechanism at play, yes.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: And what I found so fascinating at the very end of the source material was a direct call to action.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the scheduling prompt.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: It literally tells the reader to schedule a fertility acupuncture consultation at the Berkeley Center and gives the phone number and website.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: Which is very telling about where the industry is at.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: It shows how this exact data is actively being used out in the real world today.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Clinics are actively encouraging patients to integrate these holistic practices.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: If we connect this to the bigger picture, it proves that bridging the gap between Eastern modalities and Western clinical procedures isn't just a theoretical idea.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just wellness fluff.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: When tracked in large hospital populations, it produces quantifiable, statistically significant benefits.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: So what does this all mean?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: If we wrap up this deep dive, the corn nugget is this.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Individualized acupuncture, done immediately before and after an embryo transfer, was associated with a 55% increase in live births.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: And a 42% reduction in biochemical pregnancies.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it achieved this even for a demographic that skewed slightly older and had more diminished ovarian reserve.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: It is a phenomenal set of findings.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, this raises an important question for you, the listener, to mull over.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: I love a good takeaway question.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the source material gives us the what the definitive proof that the acupuncture protocol works, but it doesn't really tell us the why.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: The exact biological mechanism.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I challenge you to ponder what exactly might be occurring during those crucial 30-minute windows before and after transfer.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: Is it highly localized blood flow?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe extreme stress reduction, a complete nervous system reset.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: It could be a combination of all of them.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: And if a simple 30-minute intervention can alter the outcome of something as incredibly complex as an embryo transfer, where else in modern medicine might we be overlooking the power of integrated holistic practices?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: That is a brilliant thought to end on because it really makes you wonder what other ancient practices are just waiting for a modern data set to prove their worth.