Latest / Becoming Saiyans-A Dragon Ball re-watch podcast / Conquest and Darkness: Episodes 114-115

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Conquest and Darkness: Episodes 114-115 · Becoming Saiyans-A Dragon Ball re-watch podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Becoming Saiyans, a Dragon Ball Rewatch podcast.
0:06
SPEAKER_00: And we're back.
0:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm Truman.
0:08
SPEAKER_00: And I'm Jesse.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: And this is Becoming Saiyans, a Dragon Ball Rewatch podcast.
0:13
SPEAKER_00: On today's episode, we watched episodes 114 and 115, titled Conquest and Power and Awakened Darkness.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: Conquest and Power came out in Japan on June 1st, 1988, and in America, September 22nd, 2003.
0:30
SPEAKER_00: Whereas the Awakened Darkness came out in Japan June 8th, 1988, and in America, September 23rd, 2003.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: Some differences from the manga.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: Jesse, do you want to guess what the first one is?
0:43
SPEAKER_00: It's the fingers thing again.
0:45
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it is.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: The guard who tries to fire Bazooka at Piccolo, you know, only to be told not to, filler.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: Suno being at ground zero is filler.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: In the manga, she only appeared briefly with her family during Piccolo's announcements.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: Yamcha and the others grieving over Roshi and Chatsu's deaths and trying to convince Tien to come back.
1:06
SPEAKER_00: All of that has been at or is presented differently in the manga.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: Because in the manga, the group are never shown leaving Kamehause until Yamcha Boma and Launch all head back to back up Tien, and they also don't find out the other stuff until Tien contacts them on the plane.
1:24
SPEAKER_00: In relation to the above, the scene of the group returning to the island and mistaking Ulong reading a dirty magazine for Masteroshi is Filler.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: Opa and Bora contemplating whether or not Goku will be strong enough to ever defeat Piccolo even if he gets a power-up is filler.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: Yajirobi and Goku's arrival to the top of the Koran Tower is a slightly extended, where Yal Jirobi's visualizing all the food, only to slip and almost fall off, you know.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: Yajirobi looking through a jar to see Piccolo making demands is filler.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: Also, Goku's line in the manga about being surprised at Koran's foresight is given to Yajirobi here.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: The scene of Tian training, while remembering the deaths of Roshi and Chatsu is filler, as is the Goku flashbacks to Roshi during their first meeting and everything.
2:11
SPEAKER_00: In the manga and the Japanese version, Koran makes reference to Piccolo's strength being not of this world.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: As revealed later, he is proof correct.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: There aren't green alien monsters walking around this planet that we never have seen before.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: In case you didn't realize, he's probably an alien.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: Especially because he looks exactly like Marvin the Martian, you know, like but like anime style and muscle.
2:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, taller and bigger and stronger and faster.
2:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: And the flashback and the Funimation dub, the mermaid's one line is provided by Laura Bailey instead of Lori Steele.
2:46
SPEAKER_00: Um that's just a piece of trivia there.
2:49
SPEAKER_00: They had her re-record it.
2:51
SPEAKER_00: Differences from the manga, Jesse.
2:55
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna go on the loom and say fingers.
2:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:58
SPEAKER_00: Corin has already already has the ultra divine water for Goku in the manga.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: The entire subplot of Goku going to find it in the ice labyrinth is exclusive to the anime.
3:09
SPEAKER_00: It is shown in this episode that King Piccolo wants food.
3:12
SPEAKER_00: This is trivia, but is revealed later in uh the next series that they don't need to eat.
3:20
SPEAKER_00: It's assumed that he eats for pleasure, not for survival.
3:23
SPEAKER_00: And that is all the trivia and the differences.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: So Jesse previously on Dragon Ball.
3:31
SPEAKER_00: Piccolo pretty much completes his conquest of the first city, capturing Dog President King, and you know, telling him, hey, you better tell everybody that they need to bow down or you're gonna watch more people die.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: He says, I'll never work with you, and he says, okay, and blows up part of the city, and he's like, okay, okay, okay, okay, I'll work with you.
3:51
SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, Goku and Yajirobi finally reach the top of the tower, uh, only to find out that Korin can't teach Goku anything, but he can go get the ultra-divine mystic water that is through a bucket or a pot in his area that leads him to an ice world where Goku and Yajirobi have to fight some ice monsters, and somehow they accidentally waken awaken a guy named uh Darkness, and seems like he's a pretty bad guy.
4:17
SPEAKER_00: Um back in back on the other planet or on the other stuff, we have Tien practicing and getting angry and filling his trauma up about the whole thing going on with Chaotsu and Roshi being dead, and as he tries to practice the containment wave, and Yamsha and the gang are sad, and then they decide we gotta try to do something, and that's what you missed on Dragon Ball, just to go for it.
4:46
SPEAKER_02: These are better than last week.
4:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, a little better than last week.
4:49
SPEAKER_02: You know, they're not, I mean, they're not gonna be a few more than that.
4:51
SPEAKER_00: These go from they go from they go from a four to a five, yeah.
4:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, five, five and a half, yeah.
4:56
SPEAKER_02: Like it's it's an improvement in the fact of like I feel it was less obvious what was filler than not outside of like the flashback.
5:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:07
SPEAKER_00: Finding out that the whole sni Ice place is filler was like, whoa.
5:12
SPEAKER_00: It's not anime exclusive.
5:13
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's like that's like gonna be like the next four episodes.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: What are we talking about?
5:18
SPEAKER_02: You must have really caught up to the manga here, guys.
5:21
SPEAKER_02: You must have had to let the manga keep going.
5:23
SPEAKER_00: Let's throw something else out there, please.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: Go, go, go, ice, ice village, scooby-doo monster.
5:28
SPEAKER_00: Because I'm gonna tell you what, that was one thing I noticed hard.
5:31
SPEAKER_00: It looked like a Scooby-Doo monster.
5:32
SPEAKER_00: It did look like a Scooby-Doo monster.
5:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the uh snow monster looked like like looked like a Scooby-Doo monster.
5:39
SPEAKER_00: It looked like it looked Hanna Barbera, what was going on there.
5:43
SPEAKER_00: It's like they fell through a portal into Scooby-Doo Land.
5:46
SPEAKER_02: In the Scooby-Doo Land, but magic actually exists.
5:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:49
SPEAKER_00: Or whatever.
5:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, but one thing uh that I liked was him be uh on the first episode, just jumping into notes just immediately.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: Because I mean, these episodes, it's like, yeah, it's alright, you know.
6:03
SPEAKER_00: It's alright.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:05
SPEAKER_00: Um King Furry going, drop him this instant.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: And King Piccolo being like, alright.
6:11
SPEAKER_02: Doing the very doing the very obvious thing when an evil guy is holding a dude over like the side of a cliff or whatever, and someone tells you them to drop him.
6:20
SPEAKER_02: You know, dropping him off said cliff, here dropping them off of the vehicle that's flying mid-air.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:27
SPEAKER_00: And then he looks to King Furry and he's like, now go and tell give a concession speech and tell everybody to get in line or else.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: And King Furry's like, I won't do that.
6:36
SPEAKER_00: You can't make me.
6:37
SPEAKER_02: I'd rather die than count than call you king, and you then you must die.
6:41
SPEAKER_00: And then Piccolo's like, nah, I'll keep you around.
6:44
SPEAKER_00: But those people down there, boom, the whole like crater in the ground.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: Blows up like a quarter of the city.
6:51
SPEAKER_00: And then Piccolo becomes Captain America.
6:55
SPEAKER_00: Because he goes, I could do this all day.
6:58
SPEAKER_00: You wanna try me?
6:59
SPEAKER_00: And so King Furry's like, sorry, sorry, sorry.
7:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, one note that I wrote that was from the morning scene, um, which I guess we can, you know.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: I I guess we should finish the Piccolo stuff before we get into anything else.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: Do you what do you think, Jesse?
7:14
SPEAKER_00: Because there's not a whole lot left for a whole lot left in Piccolo.
7:17
SPEAKER_02: Um we see that Suno survives the big blast that he blows up everything with.
7:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:24
SPEAKER_00: And she's taking care of an older lady.
7:27
SPEAKER_00: Um seems like the grandma of the girl that she's with there.
7:32
SPEAKER_00: And they, you know, she Suno's like, we'll we'll keep you alive.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: I know that like we have somebody who can like save the day.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: And she goes, Oh, you do have hope.
7:42
SPEAKER_00: But then Suno, in a moment of weakness, picks up a gun, ready to shoot Piccolo, which we all know won't work.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: And she kind of seems like she realizes too that she's just not that personal.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: You're just not that you're just not that guy.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: You're just not that guy, Sano.
7:55
SPEAKER_00: You're not that guy, pal.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: And so she lays down the gun, and right at that moment, Piccolo turns around and shoots a blast, and you're led to believe that Sano died, but he blew up a soldier behind them.
8:08
SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of it for the piccolo thing.
8:10
SPEAKER_00: He's just walking around victory lapping through the city.
8:13
SPEAKER_00: Like, anybody want to try anything?
8:15
SPEAKER_00: I'll kill you too.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: These hands are ready to for everyone.
8:18
SPEAKER_00: Um and that's kind of the that's kind of the piccolo plot.
8:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:22
SPEAKER_00: The Goku and Yajorobi or the Tien, Jesse?
8:25
SPEAKER_00: Which one do you want to jump to?
8:26
SPEAKER_02: Uh Tien's probably the next easiest to get rid of.
8:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:29
SPEAKER_00: Well, I guess Tien count and the gang.
8:31
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna count like the Bowman stuff with all in there.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: It's really just because Tien's on his own too, and we get we get two scenes, one in each episode.
8:39
SPEAKER_02: Tien goes hard edge lore here.
8:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:41
SPEAKER_02: He's like, I have to I am responsible.
8:44
SPEAKER_02: Because every good, again, we don't they don't know Goku's confirmed not dead yet.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he thinks he's the only person in the world who has a chance of stopping him.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: He looked at Yamcha as Yamcha's like, I can help you, and he's like, No, you can't.
8:57
SPEAKER_02: You're gonna get more in my way than Chiatsu, because at least Chiatsu had telepathy.
9:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, at least we could like talk, right?
9:03
SPEAKER_02: He talked at telekinetic stuff.
9:05
SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, he he had he had the mind movement things.
9:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:08
SPEAKER_02: So he you're just the dude who punches way worse than me.
9:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, like Tien is off on his own.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: We get one scene in the first episode and one scene in the second episode.
9:20
SPEAKER_00: The first episode, he is sad and trying to keep his anger, anger at bay as he like remembers Roshi and Chatsu dying, and he's you know, very upset about it.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: Obviously so, understandably so.
9:31
SPEAKER_00: Like, nobody's gonna think any different of Tien for being in a mourning phase right now.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:37
SPEAKER_02: Because uh he lost the people and in the span of what about like th two or three weeks, I think of what we're guessing here.
9:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:45
SPEAKER_02: Tien has not only lost the hermit, like the the crane.
9:49
SPEAKER_02: The crane lost his original master.
9:51
SPEAKER_02: He then gained a new master, and now he is partially responsible for not just he will in his mind, partially responsible for not just the new master, Roshi's death, but he's definitely responsible in his mind for Chiatsu being dead.
10:06
SPEAKER_02: And I don't see how he's like his like lifelong friend, it seems like.
10:09
SPEAKER_00: And I don't see how you can argue that he's not, you know.
10:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like that one that one you can't argue.
10:14
SPEAKER_02: The Roshi in his mind, he's like, I should have fought harder, I should have fought against Roshi harder, but I should have seen the spray coming.
10:21
SPEAKER_02: With the Chiatsu one, there is no argument.
10:22
SPEAKER_02: He is a hundred percent why Chiatsu is dead.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
10:25
SPEAKER_02: I don't like to punch a guy when he's down, even if it is a fictional character.
10:29
SPEAKER_02: But boy, why'd you say anything?
10:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:32
SPEAKER_00: I'll also do you one more on stuff he's lost.
10:35
SPEAKER_00: Because not only did he lose the crane hermit, he also lost his hero at one point.
10:39
SPEAKER_00: He finds out that his hero has been is dead.
10:41
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, yeah, in the last go ahead.
10:43
SPEAKER_00: And mercenary Tao, he lost Therm.
10:45
SPEAKER_00: Even though Mercenary Tao died a few months ago, he lost like the the hero.
10:49
SPEAKER_00: He he found out he was dead.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: He yeah, he also lost Crane Hermit.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: Then he lost Turtle Hermit, and because he became a turtle student, in quotations, um, he also lost Krillin and Goku.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: And now like even though we know Goku's not dead, in his mind Goku's dead, we know Krillin is dead, and then he loses Roshi and Chiatsu.
11:11
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like, yeah, he's lost a lot at this point, and he feels completely alone because the only other people who are close in power to him are Goku and Roshi, and both one is dead.
11:23
SPEAKER_02: He knows it.
11:24
SPEAKER_00: One is dead and one is presumed dead.
11:26
SPEAKER_00: Well, close in power as far as allies, is what I'm trying to say.
11:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean I would I mean I would say if Yajirobi can keep up with Gyoku, like I obviously not beating him, but if he can keep up with Goku, he can keep up somewhat with Tien.
11:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but Yajirobi also isn't a friend of Goku.
11:41
SPEAKER_02: What I'm saying is like it's like to his mind.
11:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:44
SPEAKER_00: But so he he's fully alone.
11:46
SPEAKER_02: And I mean, I can under understandably so he is angry about he's angry at himself, he is angry at circumstances, he is very obviously depressed.
12:00
SPEAKER_00: That's a question.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: Like And he's trying to focus on focus his mind so he can do the job, do the final job that in his mind that he needs to do.
12:09
SPEAKER_02: It's like I he ha he's like, I have to make a sacrifice, the ultimate sacrifice, to make up for my mistakes.
12:15
SPEAKER_02: It is the only way to win.
12:17
SPEAKER_02: I have to sacrifice myself.
12:19
SPEAKER_00: And then in the second one, we see that he has not quite mastered the wave, but he is working on it.
12:24
SPEAKER_00: He's doing it.
12:25
SPEAKER_00: And that's the second scene.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: That's TN.
12:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's all all of TN is literally just I am I am like very understandably depressed and sad fighting with my demons.
12:35
SPEAKER_00: I'm dealing with major trauma, and I'm not dealing with it in the most healthy way, but also I'm dealing with it in the only way that I feel like I can in this moment.
12:44
SPEAKER_02: So I sold it shouldn't.
12:45
SPEAKER_02: Everyone loves it.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: But and then of course we got the Bulma and Bulma and the gang uh like D plot in the show.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, it's um so they Bulma had brought some extra capsules just in case to keep them on, keep the body.
13:02
SPEAKER_02: They have the same capsule, burial, body preservation stuff they have krilling in.
13:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:07
SPEAKER_02: She was really hoping not to have to use them, but it's you know, good to bring in a case.
13:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and they're expressing, but good to bring in a case.
13:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and they did end up needing them.
13:14
SPEAKER_00: One moment that really hurt in this episode was Turtle.
13:18
SPEAKER_00: Turtle might be the MVP of the episodes.
13:21
SPEAKER_00: Like hit like the voice actor for Turtle is pulling out all the stops for these, you know?
13:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:27
SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh man, Turtle.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: And Turtle is like this is Roshi is Turtle's only friend.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: Like, like he obviously has these other friends now, but like he doesn't care about them.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: He only cares about Roshi, and Roshi's gone now.
13:41
SPEAKER_00: And Roshi's the only person who's lived as long as Turtle.
13:44
SPEAKER_02: It almost feels implied that like Roshi like found Turtle and raised him as a son.
13:50
SPEAKER_02: Like it's like it feels like that's what the connection feels like with that.
13:54
SPEAKER_00: Turtle is Roshi's Inushika show.
13:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: And but yeah, he you know, he is devastated.
14:01
SPEAKER_00: And the voice actor is pull is pulling out the works for these.
14:05
SPEAKER_00: Like, if I have to point out one bright spot, it is the voice acting and that like that scene from Turtle.
14:11
SPEAKER_00: Like everyone else is doing the good job that they always do, but like Turtle can kind of wear on you a bit.
14:17
SPEAKER_00: But in this episode, like in this scene, it's it's amazing, it's really good.
14:21
SPEAKER_02: Might have only had it might have been the first scene focusing on Turtle in a really long time.
14:25
SPEAKER_02: But that five seconds when he was mourning Roshi.
14:28
SPEAKER_00: Since his son died.
14:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, since his son.
14:30
SPEAKER_02: Like that five seconds mourning Roshi's like, man, this dude, this dude's overqualified for this job with the amount of lines he he delivers.
14:38
SPEAKER_02: But like that that's a really sad moment.
14:42
SPEAKER_02: And you know, they get him on the plane, and yeah.
14:48
SPEAKER_02: He tries to go to the seven stages of grief for five stages of he's in the he's in the in the like the bargaining one where he's like, Chin, please, please let me go with you.
14:56
SPEAKER_02: He immediately goes into bargaining.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: And Chen says, I can't handle this, and turns off the Yeah, Tien just hangs up.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's like Tien, Tien, where are you?
15:04
SPEAKER_00: Tim! Tien, new guy hang up on me! He hung up on me.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, he hung up on me.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: And then one moment again, jumping, I think it may be in the second episode, but it's where they're all reminiscing, like, I wish that he would like, you know, that he would he would be out there sitting on his favorite.
15:23
SPEAKER_00: Or that he'd be out there sitting on his favorite chair and then it's moved along.
15:26
SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, I just hope Turtles like, man, I just keep thinking he's gonna open that door and he's gonna walk through.
15:32
SPEAKER_02: And then like nice launch opens the door and says dinner's ready.
15:36
SPEAKER_02: And she forgot that Roshi's gonna be dead.
15:39
SPEAKER_02: So she made a plate and enough food for all of them, including Roshi.
15:44
SPEAKER_02: It's a great it's in in a like weird, like you know, kind of like an I don't left field way.
15:50
SPEAKER_02: Like these episodes, especially like the TN and Bulma and all them stuff, um Bulmayamcha, great example of like immediate mourning.
16:03
SPEAKER_00: Especially like when you lose somebody close to you.
16:06
SPEAKER_00: Like even like Oolong, like he might be the butt of the jokes in in the episodes.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: Like he's the one who makes the joke about how like apparently the mortal dragon or the eternal dragon isn't eternal because he can die, you know.
16:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: But like, I I will point to when Dakota passed away, like one of our mutual friends named Michael, he also was the one to try to make a joke, like, because he's cut like so that he it was like laugh so I don't cry type of thing.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: And it's almost like that's Oolong's point in these episodes, too.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: Like dealing with this grief.
16:41
SPEAKER_02: That's his grief.
16:41
SPEAKER_02: Like you're seeing different types of grief, multiple different stages of grief.
16:46
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you're seeing those, like, I don't want to call it toxic, but you're seeing that's the isolation grief at the end.
16:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're seeing you know the unhealthy way of dealing with grief.
16:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like you're like you're seeing the you know, laugh so I don't cry.
16:58
SPEAKER_02: Which can be healthy if you know done respectfully and in right to your own self and everyone around.
17:03
SPEAKER_00: You see the anger slash bargaining.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: Bargaining, like uh you you you see you see like even like traces of denial from like launch, which I know launch is a whole another stack of worms because like launch is launch is two personality.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: Multiple personality disorder, all that kind of stuff.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: Like she, you know, which launched remembers that Roshi's dead, you know, like she seems like it almost seems like Blonde Launch was in her head saying, He's dead, why'd you make more food?
17:31
SPEAKER_00: She's like, Oh, I didn't, oh, you know.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: It's like it's one of those things that are.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: That's not denial, but it's also another thing, but it it's like it shows that kind of a a bit through that.
17:42
SPEAKER_02: I mean that that one if you want to look at because now we're just you know talking about loss and and dealing with dealing with loss.
17:48
SPEAKER_02: Um, which is a great game if you never played it.
17:50
SPEAKER_02: X Person 33, really good game about dealing with loss.
17:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
17:53
SPEAKER_02: Um I saw that you were playing it recently.
17:56
SPEAKER_00: But it's back on it was back on gameplay, I said it had been gone for a bit, so I redo I re-downloaded.
18:01
SPEAKER_02: Great.
18:01
SPEAKER_02: It's a great game.
18:02
SPEAKER_02: If you never played it, you know, it's maybe I I like got all the trophies, achievements, whatever you want to call them, in like 30 to 35 hours of gameplay time.
18:11
SPEAKER_02: So it's a pretty relatively short game, but it it's really good.
18:15
SPEAKER_02: But you're just like, you know, launch is kind of showing that, you know, the the sim the small pieces of mourning that you don't think about where you you know it is your routines change because someone is missing.
18:32
SPEAKER_02: You know, she's so dead set, and you know, I have to set this many plates.
18:36
SPEAKER_02: And then it's like, oh wait, I don't have to set that extra plate because he's not here.
18:40
SPEAKER_02: Like it's though she's kind of that side of mourning where it's like the subtle things in your day that you don't think about changing when someone's gone, that like now that they are, it dawns on you like, oh I didn't even think I like that was just second nature, and I didn't even think about that having to be a thing or existing or whatnot.
19:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:02
SPEAKER_02: But like these are somber in in that way, and and and it's a great way to do it, and they do it in a way where it doesn't totally slow down the episodes.
19:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but like moments where it's a it's a little long for my liking, but it's not egregious.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: You know, there are some egregious things in this episode, but this the grieving thing with the gang is not one of them.
19:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and also uh you know, you even get a C when uh when Corin tells Goku about it, like he his grieving he was the anger grieving.
19:35
SPEAKER_02: He's like, I have to this I'm gonna be.
19:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm leaving right now to go fight him again.
19:40
SPEAKER_02: Like I like basically the I'm gonna get myself killed because I'm so mad.
19:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:44
SPEAKER_02: Like he now he didn't even just stop at Krillin, he just killed my master.
19:48
SPEAKER_02: Like it's the same, probably the same situation that might have happened to him when grandpa died.
19:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:55
SPEAKER_02: When when Gohan was dead.
19:57
SPEAKER_02: Like you just you just killed the second coming of my my Gohan, my grandpa.
20:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:03
SPEAKER_02: Now you must die.
20:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:05
SPEAKER_02: Like you get all these different stages from everybody realizing what's happening and and dealing with it in their own way, but that does kind of give you an idea of just the type of character they are, is exactly how they react.
20:18
SPEAKER_02: Like, it is perfectly in character for you know, nice launch to be the routine one that like all the routine has to change.
20:26
SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, Yangsha, he's always trying to like prove himself and negotiate.
20:31
SPEAKER_02: He negotiates to try to prove himself.
20:32
SPEAKER_02: Tien coming from where he was with Crane, you know, the crane he's isolated.
20:38
SPEAKER_02: Like he's he's self-isolating, you know, beating himself up, depression mode.
20:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:42
SPEAKER_02: Uh Bulma and everybody else is like, okay, we just we you know, I just I can't believe he's gone.
20:48
SPEAKER_02: I just keep expecting it.
20:50
SPEAKER_02: Denial to a certain extent.
20:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and also acceptance to a certain extent.
20:54
SPEAKER_02: Denial and acceptance stages.
20:55
SPEAKER_02: And then obviously you see Goku with just straight like revenge, anger.
21:01
SPEAKER_00: And since we're on this and we're thinking about it, as you've been talking, I've been thinking also about how like Yajorobi kind of even shows the fact that like people that are uh of the utmost importance to people mean nothing to somebody else.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: And so Yajorobi really doesn't give a rat's button a snowstorm about what's going on with Roshi, you know?
21:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: Like Yajirobi Corin tells Goku that Roshi's dead, and Yajorobi's like, where's the food?
21:30
SPEAKER_02: Like immediately like, I'm hungry.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:32
SPEAKER_00: Like, and as messed up as that is, and he should be more understanding.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: We also know Yajorobi's not.
21:38
SPEAKER_00: Like, he's not.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: He's an immature man child.
21:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, and that is like frustrating that that's how he is.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, it's like that's just y'all that's just life, you know.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: It's like it's like my you know, when Dakota passed away, like people at work were sad for me, and then life moved on, you know.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: Like, it doesn't mean that like like my life stopped for a few days.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: But for everyone else, it was just a Saturday, Sunday, a Monday, a Tuesday.
22:04
SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, and that happens all around.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: That happens for that happens anytime anybody dies for any reason.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: Like it can be super uber important to somebody and mean nothing to another person.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: You can go look up an obituary at basically every day from somewhere, and you'll see a list of people that this this person meant the world to, and you don't even know who they are.
22:25
SPEAKER_02: And you just you read it and you move on.
22:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:27
SPEAKER_02: Or you don't, you just skim over it, you read it.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: You see that there was something and you look and you're like, well, I didn't know them, and you keep scrolling.
22:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's like it and that's just you know, it's kind of just part of being human.
22:40
SPEAKER_02: Death is a part of life, you know.
22:41
SPEAKER_02: Death is a part of life, and it it's sometimes you don't think about it until it affects you.
22:47
SPEAKER_02: It's just it's a lot, it's the same thing with a lot of things in life.
22:50
SPEAKER_02: And and I think you know, kind of where you're kind of getting into like real world problems out there.
22:57
SPEAKER_02: It's like there is things in this world that it would be nice if people could think about other people a little bit more.
23:09
SPEAKER_02: Like obviously not always, not all the time, but like be more aware that you know pe other people are going through things that you might never have gone through yet, but you're probably gonna go through at some point, and you're gonna be agitated or sad or um you know triggered in a way of s of whatever reaction because people aren't caring enough for it.
23:30
SPEAKER_02: But so just always have that in mind that like you don't know what people are going through.
23:37
SPEAKER_02: You don't know what happened in the last, you know, when you go when you go get a coffee, you don't know what happened to the barista yesterday.
23:43
SPEAKER_02: Maybe they broke up with their five-year-long boyfriend or girlfriend or whatever.
23:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: And I think we we've been a little bit down for this episode.
23:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, so we're gonna try to hard pivot to the Goku stuff because this is where the this is where the the more fun stuff is.
24:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, fillery, sillery stuff happens.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: One thing I'm gonna mention before that is I wrote down I love the maniacal bad guy talking about Piccolo, he is just l relishing in being able to destroy people, you know?
24:18
SPEAKER_02: I miss being able to just blow up entire city blocks without even thinking about it.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: And then comes my worst part, and I'm gonna go ahead and say it now, is that that when Corin tells Goku, because now we're in the Goku part, that Masuroshi's dead, we get a three-minute long flashback.
24:39
SPEAKER_00: And I I'm I wish I were like being hyperbolic.
24:42
SPEAKER_00: It's he timed it's like two minutes and forty-eight seconds.
24:45
SPEAKER_02: He he timed it the like from the moment it started, he timed it.
24:49
SPEAKER_00: And I wrote down good old flashback to have had the time.
24:51
SPEAKER_00: And then after the flashback, there is two minutes and forty-two seconds before the closing of the episode.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: So they literally doubled the time that they had left in the episode by adding this un unnecessarily long flashback.
25:09
SPEAKER_00: I can understand you get about 30 seconds.
25:11
SPEAKER_00: I'll give you 30 seconds to flash through stuff that's going through his brain.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: A minute might be pressing.
25:15
SPEAKER_00: A minute, a minute at absolute most.
25:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: But almost three minutes long of an episode of stuff that we've seen before, and stuff, some of it we've seen rather recently when when Goku or when Roshi thought Goku was dead.
25:29
SPEAKER_00: He did the it almost had the exact same flashback from but just from a different perspective.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: But we saw almost all of it.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: You know, there's maybe one new scene, and it was the Roshi shooting the Kamehameha the first time.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:41
SPEAKER_00: It's like, what are we doing here?
25:44
SPEAKER_02: And like, again, it's it's part of the grieving process for Goku.
25:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
25:48
SPEAKER_00: But you know what?
25:49
SPEAKER_00: We're just we're the Yachirobi in this section.
25:53
SPEAKER_00: We understand Roshi's dead.
25:54
SPEAKER_00: He means a lot to us too, but we got you're just wasted three minutes of our life.
25:58
SPEAKER_02: Like it happens.
26:00
SPEAKER_02: What are you gonna do?
26:01
SPEAKER_02: Like, it's one it's one of those like like I can I can give them the excuse because it's like Yeah, I just we we are watching these episodes faster than some most people, especially when it was releasing most people were watching it.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: Or even like day-to-day.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: We're not watching one episode and coming back the next day to watch the next.
26:22
SPEAKER_00: But it's still while the way we're doing this, it just makes this a little bit harder to watch.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:27
SPEAKER_00: Um and so, but at the end of after the flashback, um, and at the end of the first episode, Corinne says, There's this ultra-divine water you can get.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: My regular water was nothing, but this ultra-divine water is actually something.
26:40
SPEAKER_00: And then you just go through that pot and you'll be good to go.
26:43
SPEAKER_00: And Yajorobi doesn't know that because Yajobi's like, screw that up.
26:46
SPEAKER_02: Yajirobe walked off to try to like find some food and he didn't happen to fall into the pot.
26:50
SPEAKER_00: And he opens up the pot and he's like, Ooh, that feels like ice cream, and then jumps like falls through and he's now there.
26:56
SPEAKER_00: And then Goku willingly jumps in, but before, Corin's like, watch out for the darkness.
27:02
SPEAKER_00: And he's like, I'm not as scared of the darkness.
27:04
SPEAKER_00: Like, you will be.
27:06
SPEAKER_00: And so they fall down there, and then the second episode was kind of just a whatever for me.
27:11
SPEAKER_00: We have we already talked about the other stuff, but Goku's thing is Goku and Yandurobi squabble for a bit.
27:16
SPEAKER_00: They walk, they run into an ice monster, they beat the ice monster.
27:20
SPEAKER_02: They run into a Hannah Barbaria ice monster.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Hannah Barbaria Ice Monster.
27:23
SPEAKER_00: They beat the Hannah Barbaria Ice Monster, and then they fall off the cliff.
27:27
SPEAKER_00: And they go Yaji sledding for a while.
27:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:30
SPEAKER_00: For m excessively long as well.
27:33
SPEAKER_00: For way too long.
27:34
SPEAKER_00: It was as almost as bad as when Goku's fighting the pirate robot, and it just shows the same scene like four times in a minute.
27:42
SPEAKER_00: They just replay it over and over again.
27:44
SPEAKER_00: But like we only need to draw this one time, but that doesn't mean we can't use it eight times.
27:48
SPEAKER_02: Well, actually, they switched it up this time because uh at one point there's like icicles, I think, craftsmen from the ceiling or whatever.
27:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:56
SPEAKER_02: Or like they're all like the icicles are hitting like Goki or something or whatever.
28:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:01
SPEAKER_02: And then the icicles are hitting Andarovi or something.
28:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:05
SPEAKER_02: And they crash through a couple different ice walls and keep going, and then they end up in like a dark big dark abyss.
28:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then darkness is like, I will get these two.
28:13
SPEAKER_02: I'm going to kill you.
28:14
SPEAKER_02: You woke me up and you're humans.
28:16
SPEAKER_02: I hate humans.
28:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:18
SPEAKER_00: And then and that's where I was like, what?
28:21
SPEAKER_02: And then that's where we get, and then a lot of the rest of the uh episodes are like Suna, Sooner picking up a gun, Sooner realizing a gun's a dumb idea.
28:31
SPEAKER_02: We've already seen that he guns don't work on this guy.
28:34
SPEAKER_02: What am I doing?
28:35
SPEAKER_02: And fake out that Suno's gonna be dead, never mind.
28:38
SPEAKER_02: And then you end up with like the cliffhanger of the episode, which is Darkness like summons like a copy of Roshi to go hunt them down, I guess.
28:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:50
SPEAKER_02: I guess that's that the prediction at this point for the episode.
28:53
SPEAKER_00: Or it where he brought Roshi back from the dead, like he said let's let's introduce him to a visitor.
28:58
SPEAKER_02: So maybe they just yeah.
29:00
SPEAKER_02: Maybe he's doing kind of what uh Baba did with uh Gohan, like just brought him back to fight or something.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, but he seems kinda under a spell.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: If it is Roshi, he's under a spell.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: If it's not Roshi, this is really messed up to two man.
29:16
SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, he might not know.
29:17
SPEAKER_02: You never know.
29:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:18
SPEAKER_00: So Jesse, you got any more notes over there that we need to touch on before we jump into the ending parts of this?
29:23
SPEAKER_01: That's about it.
29:24
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
29:24
SPEAKER_00: So Jesse, your predictions were Goku and Yajurobi start gaining a new power through the Koran training.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh Piccolo starts a massive conquest throughout the other kingdoms.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: Neither one of those happens.
29:35
SPEAKER_00: Um TM Wakes awakens his evil darkness also didn't happen.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: Um so Jesse, you want to hear the next two episode names?
29:45
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
29:45
SPEAKER_00: The taste uh or not the taste, a taste of destiny and the ultimate sacrifice.
29:55
SPEAKER_02: I think a taste of destiny is pro I think in that episode is you're going to have Roshi, like copy Roshi, dark Roshi, bad Roshi, whatever you want to put type over there.
30:08
SPEAKER_02: I'm putting Roshi copy slash bad.
30:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
30:11
SPEAKER_02: And Goku or Yadroga are gonna have to a fight and you know to prove yourself and be darkness or whatever.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
30:19
SPEAKER_00: Got it.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: And then what about for the what about Taste of Destiny?
30:23
SPEAKER_00: What do you think that doesn't really touch on that?
30:25
SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
30:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:26
SPEAKER_02: Got anything from that that you like after they win the fight, Goku drinks the water or something.
30:32
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
30:32
SPEAKER_02: I guess is you know, he's tasting his destiny.
30:37
SPEAKER_02: And then ultimate sacrifice.
30:39
SPEAKER_02: Um Tian has mastered the evil containment wave when he makes a sacrifice.
30:45
SPEAKER_02: The wave.
30:47
SPEAKER_02: They try to try to beat Piccolo.
30:49
SPEAKER_02: But we well, you don't get to see the end of him trying to beat Piccolo because of the pacing of these episodes.
30:54
SPEAKER_02: It's gonna happen in the episode afterwards.
30:56
SPEAKER_02: Put the episode.
30:57
SPEAKER_02: But he starts to cast it and it starts to work or whatever.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: I like it.
31:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, so Jesse, with those with that out of the way, what do you think?
31:04
SPEAKER_00: What was your worst part?
31:08
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go ahead and say mine then.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: The the the length of the flashback.
31:13
SPEAKER_00: Like the flashback itself is fine.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: The fact it went on for almost three minutes, that's an eighth of the episode right there.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: That when you cut it down to just that, it was one like basically one eighth of the episode.
31:25
SPEAKER_00: Um and that's my worst part.
31:26
SPEAKER_00: What was yours, Jesse?
31:28
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I don't know.
31:29
SPEAKER_02: Like, it's I'm just trying to think.
31:34
SPEAKER_02: Like, uh the the flashback's probably the most egregious part of the entire episode, but I don't really want to pick the same thing, you know?
31:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:42
SPEAKER_02: I would probably say the other worst part is just like Yajorobi eating a bunch of sensu beans, and it's similarly having no effect on him besides making them fat.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: I forgot to say that.
31:57
SPEAKER_00: That when we were talking with the goofs and gaffs, Yajarobi eats like a tub of sensu beans, and he looked like me after the berry bass.
32:05
SPEAKER_02: Like he was like how I felt.
32:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for reference, Chairman went to like a friend's party of the berry bass, kind of like a memorial berry bass for me.
32:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was kind of just a memorial party for Dakota.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: Like it was with all of our friends and his family and stuff.
32:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:19
SPEAKER_00: And I probably ate approximately three pounds of meat, and that net like the I'm pretty sure it destroyed my gallbladder, and I'm still having issues with it.
32:26
SPEAKER_00: Um not the funny part, but it is like I felt like Adobe looked after I got done eating there.
32:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
32:34
SPEAKER_02: Um, but then like he just gets back up and is hungry again, and that's how we get him into the ice mage maze area and all that stuff.
32:43
SPEAKER_02: Like, okay, like I feel like eating, you know, fistfuls of something that's supposed to keep you full for 10 days might affect you a little bit longer than that.
32:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I can't.
32:53
SPEAKER_02: But I guess it's also just showing off how much of a glutton Yaji is.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, even like I'm pretty sure Goku ate more than one the first time.
33:00
SPEAKER_00: I'm pretty sure he ate like two or three handfuls as well.
33:02
SPEAKER_00: Like the first time he ate the Sensu beans.
33:05
SPEAKER_00: And it was kind of a similar thing where he's like, whoa, I'm big, and then he like 30 minutes later I was like, Can I have more?
33:11
SPEAKER_00: Because again, it's like this that's the kind of characters we're dealing with.
33:14
SPEAKER_00: They can they can't bottomless bits.
33:16
SPEAKER_02: It's the only other like weird negative I'm gonna be able to do that.
33:19
SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say you brought up the ice thing too.
33:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean the ice thing's annoying, but like I don't I can live with that because I guess like it it is more satisfying to send them on a quest to get it than for Corin to just give it to him immediately.
33:37
SPEAKER_00: It definitely trims a lot of that out if they just if he just gave it to him.
33:41
SPEAKER_02: If you just gave it to him, but uh it's not as in spirit, especially with how the show has been so far.
33:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
33:47
SPEAKER_02: That like Goku just gets what he wants immediately.
33:50
SPEAKER_02: Like you have to you have to make a work for it.
33:51
SPEAKER_02: It's it's you're teaching kids lessons with these shows.
33:54
SPEAKER_02: Make them work for it a little bit.
33:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:56
SPEAKER_00: My my best part is the turtle, the turtle voice actor.
34:00
SPEAKER_00: I I don't know his name, but like whoever I'm I'm I'm already on it, Desse.
34:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm already on it.
34:05
SPEAKER_00: I'm already on it.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: I'm on the you know, Dragon Ball Wiki.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: I just gotta figure out how to work this stupid website.
34:13
SPEAKER_00: Christopher Sabat is the guy.
34:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh just cut behind the curtain.
34:17
SPEAKER_00: We did just pause for like a solid two minutes while we were both searching different places to try to figure out who played it.
34:22
SPEAKER_02: I went to the Dragon Ball Wiki, I just go to the very bottom of Turtles page.
34:25
SPEAKER_02: I seem to do the same thing.
34:26
SPEAKER_00: I clicked on the tab that says voice actors and jumped all the way down there because I can that's how it works on website.
34:31
SPEAKER_02: But yeah.
34:31
SPEAKER_02: I did get spoiled that he's in a live action movie, and I thought he looked really stupid in the picture from the live action movie because I was I was scrolling really fast.
34:39
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna have to watch that.
34:40
SPEAKER_00: I hope you know, like after we finish like the the regular show because Dragon the Dragon Ball.
34:45
SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't think he's I don't think he's is he in the one I don't think that the the the live action Dragon Ball show or movie is like based off the original Dragon Ball.
34:54
SPEAKER_00: So we we're gonna have to watch the that movie once we get done with all this.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, my best part is Christopher Sabat's voice acting boy.
35:02
SPEAKER_00: I mean, just in general, we can give this guy as many flowers as there are in the world.
35:06
SPEAKER_00: He's amazing.
35:06
SPEAKER_00: He plays basically everybody, and he's good at all of it.
35:09
SPEAKER_00: Um and this one, especially Turtle being so drastically different than you know, Piccolo.
35:15
SPEAKER_00: Especially, yeah, and that's um, it's like, man, this is great, you know.
35:18
SPEAKER_02: I I it's so different that we didn't even realize it was him.
35:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:22
SPEAKER_00: And I enjoy his voice acting, and so I'm going to say that's my best part.
35:26
SPEAKER_00: Jesse, what is your best part?
35:28
SPEAKER_02: I think it's hard to go with anything other than that.
35:30
SPEAKER_02: Like, I think he I'm I'm trying to think of other best.
35:33
SPEAKER_02: I guess I guess if we're gonna give it to anything else, like the like how they go about showing everyone mourning the loss of Roshi, Chiatsu, even Krillin to some extent, but everyone kind of got straight to the point with Krillin because no one stopped Goku from running away in his anger reaction.
35:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
35:52
SPEAKER_02: Uh so he didn't have as much time to deal with it.
35:55
SPEAKER_02: But like, yeah, I mean just the way like they characterized everyone so perfectly.
36:01
SPEAKER_00: I think us talking about it maybe bumped it up my list too.
36:04
SPEAKER_00: Uh it's not gonna be turtle, but like it does bump it up quite a bit for me.
36:08
SPEAKER_02: Because I mean Turtle is uh that turtle voice acting is in the middle of that, and it's part of what makes it as good as it is.
36:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:18
SPEAKER_02: But just as a whole, I think I just choose all the different characterizations for everyone's mourn.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:23
SPEAKER_00: Do you got anything else you have wanted to talk about before we finish this here?
36:27
SPEAKER_00: I don't believe so.
36:28
SPEAKER_02: Let me pull it up.
36:29
SPEAKER_02: Because I realized after I Googled Turtle's voice actor, I turned everything off.
36:35
SPEAKER_00: But, I mean, if not, we can we can go with a thank you guys for listening.
36:40
SPEAKER_00: This has been Becoming Saiyans a Dragon Ball Rewatch podcast.
36:43
SPEAKER_00: Would love if you would download, subscribe, rate, review, leave us a five star rating if you feel like we earned it.
36:49
SPEAKER_00: Also, would love if you would reach out on becoming sans at gmail.com.
36:54
SPEAKER_00: You can also follow us on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube at BecomingSaians Pod.
37:00
SPEAKER_00: And until next week, I've been Truman.
37:02
SPEAKER_00: And I've been Jesse.
37:02
SPEAKER_00: And the journey continues.
37:05
SPEAKER_02: Bye.