Latest / Hopestream: Parenting Kids Through Addiction & Mental Health / The Family Black Sheep: Understanding The Overlooked Child, A Marijuana Tipping Point & Embracing Self-Discovery, with Matt LeBris

Transcript

The Family Black Sheep: Understanding The Overlooked Child, A Marijuana Tipping Point & Embracing Self-Discovery, with Matt LeBris · Hopestream: Parenting Kids Through Addiction & Mental Health

• 0:02
  Matt: I was under the impression like you couldn't get addicted to marijuana.
• 0:05
  Matt: I really believe that until I looked back now with obviously such a clear mind and I'm like, wait, Matt, I think you were like, you were super dependent on a dude and it really got to a point where like, I'm not kidding, Brenda.
• 0:19
  Matt: Like I would smoke.
• 0:34
  Brenda: Welcome to Hope Stream, a podcast where you'll hear interviews, conversations, and encouraging words for parents of teens and young adults who struggle with substance misuse and mental health.
• 0:47
  Brenda: I'm Brenda Zane, your host and a fellow parent whose child struggled.
• 0:51
  Brenda: I'm so glad you're here.
• 0:53
  Brenda: Take a deep breath and know you're not doing this alone anymore.
• 0:57
  Brenda: Hello friend.
• 0:58
  Brenda: Thanks for hanging out with me today.
• 1:00
  Brenda: Do you ever have one of those times where two completely different compartments of your life merge and you realize the world's actually a lot smaller than we think it is?
• 1:11
  Brenda: I had that happen recently and the great part about it is the merging resulted in today's podcast episode with Matt Labrine.
• 1:19
  Brenda: I know Matt from a side project I am working on and as we got to know each other, I realized he was the perfect candidate for a Hopestream episode, and luckily when I invited him on the show, he agreed.
• 1:32
  Brenda: Matt is a born and bred New Yorker and a self described hustler who spent three years working with Shark Tank's Damon John before he ventured off to create his own podcast, the Shark Tank Called the decoding success podcast and his award winning New York based branding agency, one B branding.
• 1:50
  Brenda: Matt's podcast features the world's most successful individuals in business, sports, literature, science, and more to help his listeners think and live larger.
• 2:03
  Brenda: The conversation with Matt that I had was fascinating because I got to dig into several areas of his journey that I think will sound familiar to you, including how at a young age, he felt like the family black sheep and started acting out to get attention, even though it was because he was getting into so much trouble.
• 2:24
  Brenda: That trouble included getting kicked out of multiple high schools, acting in incredibly risky ways.
• 2:30
  Brenda: And eventually, finding himself dependent on marijuana before a car accident and horrifying experience landed him in the hospital with severe anxiety.
• 2:42
  Brenda: You'll hear about Matt's tipping point when he decided he no longer wanted to include marijuana in his life, And how today he puts his journey into therapy, healing, and self discovery above his desire to be cool and fit in to the current definition of manhood.
• 2:59
  Brenda: You will love this conversation, I promise.
• 3:02
  Brenda: So take a listen to me and my friend, Matt Labrie.
• 3:06
  Brenda: Enjoy.
• 3:23
  Brenda: Here we are.
• 3:25
  Brenda: How fun is this?
• 3:26
  Matt: Super, super grateful for this opportunity.
• 3:29
  Matt: Just knowing the work that you put out into the world.
• 3:32
  Matt: Like, I'm not kidding.
• 3:33
  Matt: Like, can you see the goosebumps?
• 3:35
  Matt: Like, I'm not kidding.
• 3:36
  Matt: I literally have goosebumps right now.
• 3:38
  Matt: I'm so grateful for this.
• 3:39
  Matt: Uh, so grateful for you.
• 3:41
  Matt: And yeah, I'm just so excited to be here.
• 3:43
  Matt: Let's do it.
• 3:44
  Brenda: Well, this is, this is really cool.
• 3:46
  Brenda: So we know each other from kind of a different part of life.
• 3:48
  Brenda: And then it's, it's always cool when two different aspects of your life overlap and you're like, wait a minute, I need to get you on my podcast.
• 3:57
  Brenda: So, and you have a podcast, which we'll talk about, uh, I always love when I do a podcast episode with.
• 4:06
  Brenda: a podcaster because it's so much easier.
• 4:08
  Brenda: It's like, I don't need to give you any instructions.
• 4:13
  Matt: Welcome
• 4:14
  Brenda: to hope stream.
• 4:15
  Matt: I'm super grateful.
• 4:16
  Matt: Thank you for having me.
• 4:17
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 4:18
  Brenda: I wanted to have you on because as we were getting to know each other, you mentioned this little tidbit that I find interesting that sometimes people will throw in when I'm talking with them of like, Oh, yeah, you know, there was this time in my life where I really struggled with fill in the blank, it could be anything.
• 4:35
  Brenda: And that happened when we were talking.
• 4:36
  Brenda: So I was like, Hey, will you come share some insights with our parents?
• 4:42
  Brenda: Because I will tell you what, as a parent, when you're watching your Child.
• 4:48
  Brenda: And when I say child, that could be 13 or that could be 27.
• 4:52
  Brenda: It doesn't matter.
• 4:53
  Brenda: It's so confounding.
• 4:55
  Brenda: I got, it's just, you know, not that we are perfect by any means as parents, but you're looking at this behavior and you're scratching your head.
• 5:05
  Brenda: And you're like, what, what are you doing?
• 5:08
  Brenda: This doesn't make any sense.
• 5:09
  Brenda: So where should we start?
• 5:11
  Brenda: Maybe give us, give us the Matt one on one today.
• 5:16
  Matt: So starting with today, present moment, Matt.
• 5:18
  Matt: Sure.
• 5:20
  Matt: Well, what, what a different person than the person that we're probably going to get to in a little bit.
• 5:25
  Matt: Yeah.
• 5:25
  Matt: Today I am an individual that is deeply committed to not passing on the crap that.
• 5:31
  Matt: I've experienced in my life.
• 5:33
  Matt: I am so deeply committed today, Brenda.
• 5:36
  Matt: Like I refuse.
• 5:38
  Matt: To not do the work.
• 5:40
  Matt: And I understand that things will seep through because as you mentioned, parents and perfection are not a thing, but I am someone that is doing the unconventional, uh, turning inward as a male, I am someone that is so deeply committed to feeling feelings and talking about it and promoting all of that.
• 6:00
  Matt: And the whole kit and caboodle, because where I've came from was the absolute complete opposite, which I'm sure we're, we're all We're going to dive into a whole bunch here today.
• 6:09
  Brenda: Yes.
• 6:10
  Brenda: That's really interesting that you got to a point where you're like, you know what?
• 6:16
  Brenda: This is not probably the way that the people that I grew up with are, especially as a guy, right?
• 6:22
  Brenda: Uh, I think maybe as women, we get a little bit more of a hall pass on the feelings thing, you're not just like.
• 6:29
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 6:30
  Brenda: You know, I do this like you are out there with, I'm doing the work.
• 6:34
  Brenda: I'm seeing a therapist.
• 6:35
  Brenda: I'm, I'm okay.
• 6:37
  Brenda: Talking about this stuff.
• 6:38
  Brenda: How did you get to that point?
• 6:41
  Matt: Too much pain, like literally too much pain in 2020, uh, 2020 was a year of transformation for many people.
• 6:49
  Matt: For me, I was in a relationship and there's no shame on this person whatsoever.
• 6:54
  Matt: But truth be told, I just did not know that I was being mistreated and in the relationship I would show up and I would just constantly be anxious and I don't know what.
• 7:04
  Matt: Literally came over me and said, Matt, you're going to therapy.
• 7:07
  Matt: But that was the decision.
• 7:08
  Matt: So my parents were divorced when I was in probably like the fifth grade or so.
• 7:12
  Matt: And I went to therapy at that point, but Brenda, I'm being honest, like I would go and I would like count the books on the guy's bookshelf and like not listen to him, like keeping it real.
• 7:22
  Matt: I was so bored.
• 7:24
  Matt: Uh, it was beneficial to me that he was hard of seeing.
• 7:27
  Matt: He could not see.
• 7:28
  Matt: So I would just be goofing off for the 45 minutes I was in there, you know?
• 7:33
  Matt: But.
• 7:33
  Matt: In 2020, I really just had that wake up moment of like, dude, like you, you can't do this.
• 7:39
  Matt: And as I put myself in therapy and started to explore it, in fact, I was in complete denial of what my therapist was telling me.
• 7:46
  Matt: She's like, you're being mistreated.
• 7:48
  Matt: You're, you know, all these things, blah, blah, blah.
• 7:49
  Matt: And I'm like, no, like I'm not.
• 7:51
  Matt: And I kept showing up in that relationship, kept getting hurt, kept showing up.
• 7:54
  Matt: And then, like I said, just too much pain.
• 7:57
  Matt: And then over the course of that, you know, inward journey, I realized like, wow, like.
• 8:02
  Matt: My shoulders feel lighter.
• 8:03
  Matt: I could drop my shoulders.
• 8:05
  Matt: Like I feel less tense.
• 8:06
  Matt: Like I feel less anxious.
• 8:08
  Matt: I feel more aware.
• 8:09
  Matt: I feel more conscious.
• 8:10
  Matt: I I'm like realizing things that are true and, you know, just like major, major breakthroughs.
• 8:16
  Matt: And it made me, made me want to continue pursuing that.
• 8:20
  Matt: And in the pursuit of that as well, I was like, you know what?
• 8:22
  Matt: Like, I need to be sharing about this.
• 8:24
  Matt: Like if it's doing this for me, what could it do for other people too?
• 8:29
  Matt: You know, and just like having a big heart and someone that is an emotional guy, like I want to see other people change for the better, you know?
• 8:35
  Matt: And I couldn't just be the guy that was doing it for himself and not sharing it.
• 8:39
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 8:41
  Brenda: When you started that work and the people around you were observing you doing the work, what was that response?
• 8:51
  Brenda: esp, and I'm just curious from a guy standpoint, because, you know, I think as, as women, it's different.
• 8:55
  Brenda: We're like, oh, that's so great.
• 8:57
  Brenda: You're going to a therapist, right?
• 8:59
  Brenda: Like, you're a guy, you're the guy.
• 9:00
  Brenda: So how does, what was the response to that, like from your friends and your family?
• 9:04
  Matt: Two sides of the coin, uh, family could give a crap less, right?
• 9:08
  Matt: I'm very black sheep.
• 9:10
  Matt: Like super, super.
• 9:11
  Matt: And I embrace it now.
• 9:12
  Matt: I'm just keeping it real.
• 9:13
  Matt: Like I realized that that's a strength more than anything.
• 9:16
  Matt: Uh, does it hurt to know, like in this lifetime, I probably, no matter how much I try, you know, might not have the best relationships with them.
• 9:25
  Matt: Uh, you know, for example, I'm 32.
• 9:27
  Matt: Like I, I.
• 9:27
  Matt: Hugged my mother last week.
• 9:29
  Matt: And she was like, what do you want?
• 9:30
  Matt: You know, I kind of, you know, that was a reaction, you know?
• 9:34
  Matt: So I'm cool with that.
• 9:35
  Matt: You know, from a family perspective, there really was no reaction to it.
• 9:39
  Matt: Maybe there's a silent reaction that I just don't know about, but there was no verbal communication of like, Oh, wow, you're doing something good for yourself.
• 9:45
  Matt: In fact, I actually invited a particular party to join me to try and mend the relationship I have with them.
• 9:51
  Matt: Not that we have a bad relationship, but I think it could be better.
• 9:54
  Matt: And I was kind of denied.
• 9:55
  Matt: Uh, and then from the friend side of things, you know, it's really a two sided coin.
• 9:59
  Matt: I have friends who were like, Matt, I really appreciate you doing this and spearheading this because it made me feel more comfortable to do it for myself.
• 10:07
  Matt: Which was obviously like really nice.
• 10:09
  Matt: And then on the flip side, there's probably people that see a video of mine or like hear me talk about it on a podcast or whatever, and they tell me I'm gay.
• 10:18
  Matt: And it's like, you know, there, there's two sides to that coin, but at the end of the day, like I know what it's doing for me and whether you think I'm weird for doing it or whether you're like super embracing of it and it's like, wow.
• 10:30
  Matt: Like, yeah, I want to give that a shot too.
• 10:32
  Matt: It's not going to change whether I do it or not.
• 10:34
  Matt: Cause I love it.
• 10:35
  Matt: And the fact that I am still continuously learning, like I can't even tell you, like I'm still learning so much.
• 10:44
  Matt: And the fact that I know, like it's never ending, like I am so committed.
• 10:48
  Matt: Like so committed.
• 10:49
  Brenda: You're in, you're sold, you're sold on the, the self introspection thing.
• 10:54
  Brenda: Are there people that, because this is what I've experienced in, in what I went through, like I was forced to grow a lot, right?
• 11:04
  Brenda: For the sake, like if I wanted to keep the relationship with my son in particular, but everybody in my family, but I had to, I was like, well, if I want to keep this relationship, I'm going to have to do some work.
• 11:16
  Brenda: And as I've been forced to do that work, I'm like you, like I'm all in.
• 11:20
  Brenda: I think it's amazing to learn more about yourself, but there are also people.
• 11:26
  Brenda: In your orbit who haven't done the work, aren't willing to do the work.
• 11:30
  Brenda: And that can be difficult, right?
• 11:33
  Brenda: The relationship can be really hard and people might say like, oh, you think you're so enlightened, or whatever, right?
• 11:41
  Brenda: Like, you're all woo woo now, like, you've done this work.
• 11:44
  Brenda: Do you, do you experience that where there's some people that are like, I don't even, I don't really know what Matt's up to.
• 11:50
  Matt: Yep.
• 11:50
  Matt: I mean, the most recent woman I was dating consistently called me woo woo.
• 11:55
  Matt: And.
• 11:56
  Matt: To an extent it hurts when it comes from someone that's close to you.
• 11:59
  Matt: And it's like, you know, it only reinforces what you felt for so long, especially as a black sheep, where it's like, you just feel even more isolated.
• 12:08
  Matt: And once I think I posted a video about this yesterday, it's like, when you go through your own healing journey and you really, I'm loose with the words healing journey, but like when you turn inward and you start to become aware of your wounds, it's really hard not to see someone else's like, Especially when you see someone else's that inflicted wounds upon you intentionally or not.
• 12:29
  Matt: Like when it comes from like a parent perspective, like a kid looking at a parent, like I see my dad's, I see my mom's and I'm like, I would really love to help you, you know, but you know, you have to embrace the fact that not everyone is destined to change in this lifetime, especially on that level.
• 12:46
  Matt: And then furthermore, you can't change anyone, even if they were that, that I think is like the challenge of like, not.
• 12:53
  Matt: Trying to change someone else, you know, and I've definitely got caught up in that.
• 12:57
  Brenda: Oh, yes.
• 12:58
  Brenda: Well, it's a, it's a common trap is like, Oh, but if I could just tell them this, or if they could just understand that, then it would all, it would all be better.
• 13:08
  Brenda: You mentioned black sheep a couple of times.
• 13:10
  Brenda: What is, tell us some of the, tell us some of the, the meaning behind that.
• 13:14
  Brenda: Like, what does that mean in your family?
• 13:16
  Matt: Yeah.
• 13:16
  Matt: I mean, to me, a black sheep is just someone that is isolated, even when you're in close proximity to people, right?
• 13:26
  Matt: So like you can be physically close, but mentally, emotionally, spiritually isolated, and that is a really difficult concept to handle.
• 13:35
  Matt: For example, growing up, family parties, holidays, it's like, Oh, this big time to get together in an Italian European family or whatever, and you're together, but the black sheep doesn't feel together, the black sheep actually So isolated.
• 13:51
  Matt: And that's exactly what it was for me.
• 13:53
  Matt: Just like growing up.
• 13:54
  Matt: I just felt like I wasn't understood.
• 13:56
  Matt: Uh, and of course I didn't know this at the time, right?
• 13:59
  Matt: Like I not know this at all.
• 14:01
  Matt: Uh, I felt like I wasn't understood.
• 14:02
  Matt: I felt like I was neglected.
• 14:03
  Matt: I felt like I was isolated.
• 14:05
  Matt: I just felt all of the things that.
• 14:07
  Matt: Made me feel outcasted.
• 14:09
  Brenda: How did that start to like manifest in your life?
• 14:12
  Brenda: Be knowing like, Oh, wait a minute.
• 14:14
  Brenda: I think I am different.
• 14:15
  Matt: Yeah.
• 14:16
  Matt: Well, I could tell you started with me acting out to get attention because I felt so isolated, so neglected, so just like pushed away.
• 14:26
  Matt: It started with me getting attention negatively, right?
• 14:29
  Matt: Because you can receive attention negatively.
• 14:33
  Matt: I remember vividly being in fourth grade.
• 14:35
  Matt: I was in fourth grade in 2001.
• 14:37
  Matt: And the principal, Margaret Baxter called me into her office at the end of the day.
• 14:42
  Matt: And I was so upset because I went to a private school, we got out at 2 30 and it's like, you're calling me in right as we're about to get dismissed.
• 14:49
  Matt: And I just want to get home woman, you know?
• 14:51
  Matt: And she looked at me and she goes, why do you do this to your mother?
• 14:56
  Matt: And if I had the opportunity to just be there with the younger version of Matt, and if it was just to say, Hey, it's because I really want her attention.
• 15:07
  Matt: And.
• 15:08
  Matt: You know, like that was the answer.
• 15:10
  Matt: So truthfully, like it started to show up in my life as seeking attention negatively, and that really took place in all facets of, of life.
• 15:20
  Matt: And it mostly impacted my education because that's where.
• 15:24
  Matt: You know, I knew I would be able to get the attention, right?
• 15:27
  Matt: So, uh, principal's office, nonstop really poor grades.
• 15:32
  Matt: Like that's a way to get someone's attention, you know, like one hell of a way to get someone's attention, you know, and that just continued to transpire until it like unraveled into bigger things and honestly, more serious things.
• 15:44
  Matt: Like I didn't get accepted into any high schools, not because I was dumb.
• 15:49
  Matt: But because I simply just never applied myself.
• 15:52
  Matt: And then when I was in high school, I ended up getting kicked out of two of them.
• 15:56
  Matt: Again, not because I was dumb, but because I was constantly seeking the attention of disciplinary things, right?
• 16:04
  Matt: Like I would, I would act out in so many different ways, uh, led to me getting arrested, right?
• 16:09
  Matt: Like, I think all of it stems from what we're discussing here.
• 16:13
  Matt: And it started with.
• 16:15
  Matt: Attention seeking from, you know, behavior in elementary school, all the way up to the more serious stuff that I just alluded to.
• 16:23
  Brenda: Do you think that it was, like, this is, this is one of those crucial, like, I want to stick a pin in it because did you realize at the time, like, what is going through your mind?
• 16:37
  Brenda: Like, I just don't care, like I'm doing all these things, I'm failing, I'm not applying myself, I'm taking these risks, doing these risky things, and I just don't care.
• 16:49
  Brenda: Or are you just kind of oblivious to why you're doing these things?
• 16:54
  Brenda: I think this is such an important thing for parents to understand, like what is going through your mind.
• 17:01
  Matt: I was absolutely oblivious.
• 17:03
  Brenda: Okay.
• 17:03
  Matt: Like so oblivious.
• 17:05
  Matt: I was so oblivious that I didn't care though.
• 17:08
  Matt: Right?
• 17:08
  Matt: Like, so, uh, I maintained this bulletproof mentality that nothing could hurt me.
• 17:15
  Matt: And at the end of the day, nothing actually did hurt me.
• 17:18
  Matt: You know, granted I was in pain, so I don't mean emotional hurt, but like, I can't believe I survived a lot of the stuff that I did.
• 17:26
  Matt: And I'm just like, Whoa, my most recent partner was like, Matt, I cannot believe that you tell me these stories.
• 17:33
  Matt: It's like, you live two different lives.
• 17:34
  Matt: And when I hear myself say some of the stories, I'm like, yeah, I definitely did because I would not do half the stuff I previously did, you know?
• 17:42
  Matt: So I was just like, first of all, I wasn't.
• 17:47
  Matt: Aware of why I was doing any of this stuff.
• 17:49
  Matt: So I think that plays into like the oblivion aspect of it.
• 17:52
  Matt: But at the same time, I just didn't care because perfect example, I went to private school, my entire life up until college, my parents were paying for it.
• 18:01
  Matt: I was not going to get left back, you know?
• 18:04
  Matt: And I knew that, like, I, I was very well aware.
• 18:07
  Matt: No one that I've seen got left back and you pay, you play, you pay, you play, you just keep going and going and going.
• 18:15
  Matt: So to me, that was an open invitation to just be like, Pushed along.
• 18:19
  Brenda: It
• 18:20
  Matt: led me to that not care mentality, but there was a fair share of both, like totally oblivious to what I was actually doing, totally like not given a crap either.
• 18:39
  Brenda: Hey there.
• 18:39
  Brenda: Are you feeling stuck in a cycle of drama and arguments with your child worried sick about their substance use?
• 18:46
  Brenda: I have been there and I want you to know there's hope this podcast is just one piece of the curated and trustworthy resources and solutions we offer for parents.
• 18:56
  Brenda: We recognize you need emotional support and a solid plan for moving forward, making positive change in your family.
• 19:04
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• 19:16
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• 19:27
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• 19:30
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• 19:32
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• 19:40
  Brenda: Remember, you're not alone in this.
• 19:42
  Brenda: We're doing it together.
• 19:44
  Brenda: Now let's get back to the conversation.
• 19:59
  Brenda: Were you observing around you like, Oh, there are people who are not doing these things and not getting in trouble?
• 20:06
  Brenda: Like, what was the What was that like?
• 20:09
  Matt: Yeah, well, you know, at the time there were, I was surrounded by people doing the same thing, just not getting in trouble for it.
• 20:16
  Matt: I would be the one that would always take it to the next level.
• 20:19
  Matt: You know, like I would always go a little bit too far, and then you're getting expelled from school, or you're getting suspended, or you have Saturday detention.
• 20:29
  Matt: Who the hell likes Saturday detention?
• 20:30
  Matt: I sure do.
• 20:31
  Matt: You know, like you're doing all of these things, and Yeah, like I was surrounded by, it was cool.
• 20:38
  Matt: Like, that's what I thought.
• 20:39
  Matt: I was like, Oh, it's cool.
• 20:40
  Matt: Like, this is how I'm going to mark.
• 20:41
  Matt: Like, I'm going to be cool by doing this.
• 20:44
  Matt: And especially like when you're transferring schools and whatnot, it's like, you know, you want to fit in and like to fit in, you want to make people laugh.
• 20:50
  Matt: And like, I got caught up in that.
• 20:52
  Matt: Uh, so it was an unintentional obliviousness, right?
• 20:56
  Matt: It was just like, uh, yeah, like I was just like, No clue what was happening.
• 21:04
  Brenda: Which I think is very common.
• 21:06
  Brenda: I think it would be unusual for a person like it in the high school age range to be aware.
• 21:14
  Brenda: Right.
• 21:14
  Brenda: And sort of.
• 21:16
  Brenda: in tune enough with themselves to be like, Oh, I think I'm doing these things to get attention that I'm not getting otherwise would be, it would be a little bit unusual.
• 21:26
  Brenda: What was going on with your parent relationship during this time?
• 21:29
  Brenda: Like, were your parents holding boundaries or allowing you to feel the consequences of what you were doing?
• 21:35
  Brenda: Or what, what was that dynamic like?
• 21:38
  Matt: I have never been punished once in my life.
• 21:42
  Brenda: Interesting.
• 21:43
  Matt: I can't speak from their experience, but now that I'm at an age where my friends are starting to have kids, I can probably make the radical assumption that it was so overwhelming handling a child like me.
• 21:57
  Matt: That it was just like, you know what, just do whatever you want to do,
• 22:01
  Brenda: you
• 22:01
  Matt: know, I had to, I was forced to grow up rather quickly because of my parents divorce, you know, like there was a part of me that actually like took on a little bit of a parental role for my younger sister in regards to like, I would get out of school at 1230.
• 22:16
  Matt: In elementary school on Wednesdays, and I would have to pick her up and like transport her on public transportation and I'm in like sixth grade now, granted, I'm not going super far, but like I was like forced to like be a caretaker in those moments.
• 22:29
  Matt: And it really pulled me away from like being a kid.
• 22:33
  Matt: So, yeah, there was like.
• 22:35
  Matt: Really poor relationships where my relationship with my dad was primarily around sports, like everything was sport, sport, sport.
• 22:45
  Matt: Uh, there was no connection, like on an emotional level.
• 22:48
  Matt: I was never taught like, uh, and again, this is not to shame parents.
• 22:51
  Matt: And I really, like, I'm just telling the story.
• 22:55
  Matt: Like I never even had a conversation with my dad about like sex.
• 22:59
  Matt: Like I, I had to figure it all out on my own.
• 23:01
  Matt: Uh, and again, I feel like that was kind of like the underlying theme again, black sheep, right?
• 23:07
  Matt: Just like carving your own path.
• 23:09
  Matt: Uh, and funny enough, usually when you carve your own path as a black sheep, the herd ends up following you, which, uh, now happens in adulthood.
• 23:16
  Matt: But.
• 23:17
  Matt: And then on the flip side with my mom, you know, she, such an incredible woman, super hard worker, uh, as is my dad.
• 23:24
  Matt: And.
• 23:25
  Matt: I always felt like there was like a resentment toward me from her Whether that be because she looks at me and sees my dad or because I fucked around excuse my language But I messed around so much, you know, so there was like a really big disconnect and there still is, you know it's gotten better as i've Healed my side of things, but there was a total disconnect.
• 23:46
  Matt: And like I said, there were zero boundaries whatsoever.
• 23:49
  Matt: In fact, there, yeah, no boundaries, like go live, be free,
• 23:53
  Brenda: Wow.
• 23:54
  Brenda: So interesting.
• 23:55
  Brenda: Right.
• 23:56
  Brenda: Cause I think that's, you hear you hear both like.
• 24:00
  Brenda: my parents tried to control everything that I did and I was always getting in trouble or you, you often hear the opposite, which was like, I don't know.
• 24:08
  Brenda: I was just out there wild feral in the streets.
• 24:11
  Brenda: Right.
• 24:12
  Matt: Absolutely.
• 24:13
  Matt: Absolutely.
• 24:14
  Brenda: Oh man.
• 24:15
  Brenda: There, at some point I know marijuana entered your life.
• 24:19
  Brenda: And I think there's a lot of, uh, misperception among parents that, well, it's just weed.
• 24:24
  Brenda: Like I don't know if we did weed in the eighties or the nineties and And I try to shout it from the mountaintop that the weed of today is very different than the weed of the past.
• 24:35
  Brenda: So there's a big need to pay attention, uh, because there is a perception that it can't be addictive.
• 24:42
  Brenda: It's not really that bad.
• 24:43
  Brenda: It's like this natural thing.
• 24:46
  Brenda: To whatever degree you're comfortable, tell us about your relationship with marijuana.
• 24:51
  Matt: Well, I'll tell you this, I'm scared of it now.
• 24:53
  Matt: Yeah.
• 24:55
  Matt: Like, I, I mean, you walk the streets of New York and it just like, reeks of weed and I'm like, oh, I don't want
• 24:59
  Brenda: to get high, I don't want to get high.
• 25:01
  Brenda: It's so bad there.
• 25:02
  Brenda: I mean, I live in Seattle and I thought it was bad here.
• 25:06
  Brenda: It is way worse there.
• 25:08
  Matt: You can go into a deli or a bodega, whatever you want to call it, and you can buy it right there, you know.
• 25:13
  Matt: Much different than when I was dabbling with it.
• 25:15
  Matt: Uh, it, it is very different.
• 25:17
  Matt: Weed got in, marijuana got introduced into my life.
• 25:22
  Matt: Probably I want to say when I was in college, I like tried to smoke twice in high school and didn't get high and I literally like hit up the dealer and I'm like, dude, like, I didn't get, well, it was like, how was it?
• 25:36
  Matt: I was like, well, I didn't get high.
• 25:37
  Matt: And he was like, You're trying to shit on my weed.
• 25:40
  Matt: And I'm like, no, dude, like, I'm, I'm not like talking bad about your product.
• 25:43
  Matt: I just, you know, maybe I don't know how to use it, which I didn't.
• 25:46
  Matt: I, I think I was scared at the time.
• 25:49
  Brenda: Does it come with a manual, like instructions?
• 25:52
  Matt: You didn't like inhale it.
• 25:53
  Matt: Uh, I was like smoking it like a cigar, uh, didn't do anything.
• 25:58
  Matt: But, you know, throughout that period of time, like high school, I started drinking and I think in college is when I actually got high for the first time.
• 26:09
  Matt: And, you know, it was really a social thing and it was like, Oh wow.
• 26:14
  Matt: That felt really good.
• 26:16
  Matt: Until it was no longer a social thing.
• 26:18
  Matt: And it be kind, it became like, Hey, you can't do anything without being high thing.
• 26:24
  Matt: It wasn't until I had a series of like physical experiences that made me stop.
• 26:33
  Matt: But from 2011 to probably 2016, like if I could have the money back that I spent on that, like let me know because it was a lot of money being a lot of
• 26:45
  Brenda: money and guessing that it happens over time, right?
• 26:49
  Brenda: Like you start out, it's like with anything starts out.
• 26:51
  Brenda: It's a great thing.
• 26:54
  Brenda: Whether it's just a party or to relax and then you start to realize like what were the things that were happening that made you go, Hmm, maybe this isn't.
• 27:03
  Brenda: Such a good idea.
• 27:05
  Matt: Yeah.
• 27:06
  Matt: So when the, the thing is when I first started smoking and actually getting high, I didn't know how to roll.
• 27:13
  Matt: So I was dependent on my friends that did.
• 27:16
  Matt: Right?
• 27:17
  Matt: Uh, I wasn't like holding a bong or like a pipe or any like, you know, we would roll up in a J or like a Dutch is what they called them back then.
• 27:25
  Matt: I don't know what the kids call them these days, but you know, I was very reliant on them for that until I learned and taught myself how to roll.
• 27:34
  Matt: And then once I learned and taught myself how to roll, I was able to do it whenever I wanted to do it.
• 27:40
  Matt: And it really got to a point where like, I'm not kidding, Brenda.
• 27:43
  Matt: Like I would smoke to go smoke.
• 27:46
  Matt: Like I would get in my car, uh, meeting up with a friend that's 10 minutes away and I would be smoking the entire way while driving to get to where he was.
• 27:58
  Matt: And then together we would smoke.
• 27:59
  Matt: Like it was that, it was to that point.
• 28:02
  Matt: And then it all ended.
• 28:04
  Matt: Truthfully, it all ended when I was in a car accident.
• 28:07
  Matt: I was coming home from college, uh, which I showed up to college every day, smelling like weed in a suit, by the way, because I wore a suit to college.
• 28:16
  Matt: And that was on Dean's list honors.
• 28:17
  Matt: By the way, I was on my way home from school doing what I do best at the time, smoking while driving, as I'm getting on the highway, I get rear ended.
• 28:27
  Matt: And, you know, your adrenaline's pumping I'm high.
• 28:30
  Matt: Uh, plus I was just smoking while driving, uh, not trying to get in trouble.
• 28:34
  Matt: And I just so happened to get rear ended by a lawyer.
• 28:37
  Matt: Uh, he was obviously very apologetic, but in the heat of the moment, you know, young kid, I'm like in my twenties, whatever.
• 28:46
  Matt: And.
• 28:47
  Matt: I'm just trying to hide the fact that I'm high.
• 28:48
  Matt: I'm like spritzing myself with cologne, like doing the whole nine, get home, all of the adrenaline fades, the high fades.
• 28:55
  Matt: And I just start crying and I'm like calling my mom.
• 28:59
  Matt: I'm like, Hey, I'm in so much pain.
• 29:00
  Matt: My neck was killing me.
• 29:02
  Matt: I'm like, what do I do?
• 29:03
  Matt: Uh, went to urgent care.
• 29:05
  Matt: They couldn't do anything cause I didn't have a police report.
• 29:08
  Matt: So I waited like a week, went back to the doctor, just lied about what happened.
• 29:13
  Matt: And I was like, Hey, I'm in pain.
• 29:14
  Matt: Like need help.
• 29:15
  Matt: They gave me muscle relaxers.
• 29:17
  Matt: There was like nothing wrong with my neck.
• 29:18
  Matt: They were just like, Hey, it's going to get better.
• 29:20
  Matt: Gave me muscle relaxers, gave me like a strong ibuprofen.
• 29:25
  Matt: And I was off like the next few days.
• 29:27
  Matt: And I remember vividly I'm on the muscle relaxer and on the ibuprofen I'm in bed the entire day, just relaxing, reading, thinking, grow rich, being a good little boy, just reading a book in bed.
• 29:39
  Matt: And I remember my mom got home at the time.
• 29:42
  Matt: My sister was home and it was like kind of close to dinner and I'm like, you know what?
• 29:45
  Matt: I haven't smoked all day Let me just go out into the backyard and like light up a jay And I did and I got high like super quick and I didn't realize that it was because of the muscle relaxer So I got high like super super quick and I was like All of a sudden I like go up to my bedroom and my heart is racing like really really fast like I could i'm like feeling a bodily reaction even talking about it right now like to the point where if My heart rate was like monitored by a health professional.
• 30:21
  Matt: Like they would probably like taking me somewhere like emergency wise, it continued for the entire night.
• 30:28
  Matt: Literally the entire night.
• 30:30
  Matt: I remember expressing the fear to my mom.
• 30:32
  Matt: I'm like, Hey, this is what I did.
• 30:35
  Matt: I'm really scared right now.
• 30:36
  Matt: I was just like breaking down to her crying.
• 30:39
  Matt: And the next day I woke up, I don't even remember falling asleep, but I woke up the next day I was on my living room couch or, or my mother's living room couch, as I woke up, I realized that I was going into a panic attack.
• 30:54
  Matt: Uh, I did not know what a panic attack was at the time, got out of it, went back into it, just like the entire day was in a panic attack, and my dad got home from work, keep in mind my parents are divorced, and I'm like, dad, like, I need to do something, so he took me to the hospital, again, I'm, you know, a kid, I really don't know how to handle a panic attack at this point, I don't even know what it is.
• 31:15
  Matt: Go to the hospital.
• 31:16
  Matt: They try to do an EKG on me.
• 31:17
  Matt: They couldn't even get the things to stick to my chest because I'm just like sweating and like shaking and like all of these things.
• 31:25
  Matt: And I'm laying there, the doctor comes up to me.
• 31:28
  Matt: She's like, what did you do?
• 31:30
  Matt: And I said, well, I smoked a joint while on a muscle relaxer.
• 31:33
  Matt: And she looked at me and she goes, so what?
• 31:37
  Matt: And I was like, is it not as bad as it feels right now?
• 31:40
  Matt: Because like.
• 31:41
  Matt: I'm like tripping out.
• 31:43
  Matt: I was like, my heart rate was crazy.
• 31:45
  Matt: Like all these things.
• 31:46
  Matt: She's like, so what?
• 31:47
  Matt: So they come they give me like a little pill.
• 31:50
  Matt: I don't even know what it is to this day Probably like a xanax or something, right?
• 31:54
  Matt: I take it and i'm fine and I have never smoked weed since then.
• 32:00
  Matt: Like I was scared for my life and I do not want to ever experience that again.
• 32:05
  Brenda: That is so incredible.
• 32:07
  Brenda: I think it's also interesting that in this world, they talk a lot about rock bottom and it has to be, you know, like what's the rock bottom going to be for this person?
• 32:16
  Brenda: And it can be, I think I like to think of rock bottoms more, like you said, as a tipping point of.
• 32:23
  Brenda: Okay, this got more, the pain was outweighing the pleasure for sure.
• 32:29
  Brenda: And I was going to ask you about that, whether you consider yourself somebody in recovery or do you just consider yourself somebody who just doesn't use substances?
• 32:38
  Brenda: Like what is that
• 32:39
  Matt: relationship for you?
• 32:41
  Matt: Well, you know, I never thought, like I was under the impression like you couldn't get addicted to marijuana.
• 32:46
  Matt: I really believe that.
• 32:48
  Matt: Until I looked back now with obviously such a clear mind.
• 32:51
  Matt: And I'm like, wait, Matt, I think you were like, you were super dependent on it, dude.
• 32:56
  Matt: Like I would go to the gym and I would question why I would smoke before the gym.
• 33:01
  Matt: And I'd be like, and I would answer myself.
• 33:03
  Matt: And I'd be like, well, you're, you feel much more focused, right?
• 33:07
  Matt: Same thing.
• 33:07
  Matt: I would go out to eat.
• 33:08
  Matt: Well, it gives me more of an appetite, right?
• 33:11
  Matt: Like all of these things, like I always had a reply for myself, but at the end of the day, I was like, Is that necessary for you to live life?
• 33:20
  Matt: You know, now I can look back and say that.
• 33:22
  Matt: So I don't necessarily call myself someone in recovery.
• 33:25
  Matt: I'm just like, Hey, I will never do that again.
• 33:27
  Matt: Right.
• 33:28
  Matt: And it's very rare that I even drank like the rarest of occasions.
• 33:32
  Matt: Not that I ever had an issue with drinking, although I also abused that and very recklessly and dangerously lived my life around that, especially as someone that was in the hospitality industry for as long as I was, I am very happy being sober.
• 33:47
  Matt: Like so happy being sober because I'm no longer fearing like the feelings that would come up I think there was a period of time after I actually stopped smoking That I had to feel like a lot of crap that was like buried, you know And I would like that period of time was very rough But ultimately yeah, like I just feel like i'm i'm so happy with just being plain jane Like no, you know, like just me like the way that I am You
• 34:17
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 34:18
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 34:18
  Brenda: Well, that's an incredible story.
• 34:21
  Brenda: I think it also highlights what we talk about a lot here on HopeStream, which is there is not one way to quote unquote, get sober, right?
• 34:30
  Brenda: So there's, uh, and I try to remind people of this all the time, that the majority of people, 90 percent of people who struggle with substances, whether it's a dependence or addiction or whatever it is, they do not go to treatment.
• 34:43
  Brenda: They do not go to, you know, Hazleton or they don't go to Cairn or they don't go to wherever.
• 34:48
  Brenda: They find a way in their own life like you did to make that change, whether that's just an abrupt, like yours sounded like it was a pretty abrupt decision for some people.
• 34:58
  Brenda: Obviously it's longer, right?
• 34:59
  Brenda: And maybe they do an AA or something.
• 35:02
  Brenda: But the reason I really wanted to have you talk about your story is that it highlights those two points.
• 35:09
  Brenda: One, which is a rock bottom doesn't have to look like you're living on the streets shooting heroin.
• 35:14
  Brenda: It can be an example of what you went through and also that people find sobriety and a great life in a lot of different ways.
• 35:25
  Brenda: It's really important I think for parents to hear because it can get easy to just tunnel vision like this is how it's going to happen for my child.
• 35:35
  Brenda: And that's not necessarily always true, you know?
• 35:38
  Matt: Yeah, absolutely.
• 35:39
  Matt: Absolutely.
• 35:40
  Matt: You know, I, I think there were numerous times I tried to stop and I was like successful.
• 35:48
  Matt: Only for a certain period of time, right?
• 35:51
  Matt: Because not for nothing, like I was selling weed because I wanted to pay for the dependency of it.
• 35:58
  Matt: You know, like it is an expensive addiction, you know, like it is really freaking expensive.
• 36:04
  Matt: And granted, I am very fortunate.
• 36:07
  Matt: Like at that period of time, I.
• 36:09
  Matt: Made a lot of money.
• 36:10
  Matt: I really did like late teens, early twenties.
• 36:13
  Matt: I am blessed with the opportunities I had that provided the way that they did.
• 36:17
  Matt: But at the same time, you know, like there were periods where I'm like, you know what?
• 36:20
  Matt: Like.
• 36:21
  Matt: I kind of had those glimpses of what I wanted in the future for my life.
• 36:25
  Matt: And this was interfering with it from like a monetary perspective.
• 36:29
  Matt: So I'd be like, you know what?
• 36:30
  Matt: Like I'm good.
• 36:30
  Matt: Like, let me, you know, I'm done.
• 36:32
  Matt: I'm done with it.
• 36:33
  Matt: And then I would save up so much money and I'd be like, Oh, you know what?
• 36:36
  Matt: Like I could definitely dabble with that still.
• 36:38
  Matt: And then I would go back, you know?
• 36:39
  Matt: So like in this particular journey, it really just had to like hit me with a two by four for me to like really wake up.
• 36:47
  Matt: Yeah.
• 36:47
  Brenda: Yeah.
• 36:48
  Brenda: Well, thank you for sharing that.
• 36:50
  Brenda: I know it's so helpful for people who are listening to just hear a different perspective to hear what was like rambling through your brain, you know, to make sense of that behavior that you just scratch your head at, like.
• 37:03
  Matt: Yeah.
• 37:04
  Brenda: Why, why is this going on?
• 37:06
  Brenda: So before we wrap up, I would love to just have you share a little bit about what you do today, your podcast, because I think your podcast might actually be pretty interesting to some of the kiddos that, you know, are the kids of the parents who are listening.
• 37:21
  Matt: Yeah, I appreciate it.
• 37:23
  Matt: And, and again, just, you know, taking a moment to say thank you to you, Brenda, like the work that you're doing, it's so important and it's so powerful.
• 37:30
  Matt: Like you are.
• 37:32
  Matt: Really spearheading an initiative, numerous initiatives to like change lives as you and I just discussed, like the impact that like literally an hour ago when we were discovered, like, Hey, there's a potential trajectory that, you know, substance misuse will literally impact nearly the entire population, probably within a few years.
• 37:53
  Matt: Like that's.
• 37:54
  Matt: Really really big so the work that you're doing is absolutely incredible and I want to say thank you again Yeah as for the podcast, you know, I started it in full transparency just like having nothing to do with my life at a certain point I had quit a job with damon john from shark tank and I was like, well, I have a tony robbins event I'm going to and then nothing.
• 38:12
  Matt: Oh, sorry thanksgiving and then nothing.
• 38:15
  Matt: So, you know, I started this in 2018 and at the time I'm going to be honest, like didn't have direction or anything, but as you evolve, and you know, this Brenda, as you evolve, your brand evolves.
• 38:25
  Matt: And right now we are really on a mission to help people feel seen, heard, and connected again, those black sheeps that may have not felt that to transcend societal definitions of success, to define it for themselves by going inward, then outward versus outward than inward, which is happening.
• 38:42
  Matt: Often, uh, we have really deep conversations that are about exactly what we're talking about here, right?
• 38:48
  Matt: Like feeling the pain, feeling the emotions, like navigating all of that, learning how to surf the highs and the lows, the ebbs and the flows, the peaks and the valleys, whatever you wanna refer to them as.
• 38:59
  Matt: And in the midst, honestly, having so much fun doing it, it's like such a blessing and I have a blast doing it, and I learn so much.
• 39:06
  Brenda: Thank you so much for being here and just chatting with me and sharing your story.
• 39:11
  Brenda: It's, it's so, so incredibly helpful.
• 39:13
  Matt: I appreciate it.
• 39:14
  Matt: Thank you again for the opportunity.
• 39:15
  Matt: You're crushing it.
• 39:16
  Matt: I love to see it.
• 39:18
  Brenda: Okay, my friend, that is a wrap for today.
• 39:20
  Brenda: Don't forget to download the new ebook, Worried Sick.
• 39:24
  Brenda: It's totally free and it will shed so much light on positive tools and strategies you can use right now to start creating those positive conditions for change in your home and in your relationships.
• 39:36
  Brenda: It is at hopestreamcommunity.
• 39:38
  Brenda: org forward slash worried.
• 39:41
  Brenda: And guess what?
• 39:42
  Brenda: We have moved the entire podcast to our website at hopestreamcommunity.
• 39:47
  Brenda: org.
• 39:48
  Brenda: So now when you want the show notes or resources, or if you want to download a transcript, just go to hopestreamcommunity.
• 39:55
  Brenda: org and click on podcast and you will find it all there.
• 39:59
  Brenda: You can search by keyword, episode number, guest name.
• 40:02
  Brenda: And we have created playlists for you, makes it much easier to find episodes grouped by topic.
• 40:08
  Brenda: So we're really excited to have that done and hope you like the podcast's new home.
• 40:15
  Brenda: Please be extraordinarily good to yourself today.
• 40:17
  Brenda: Take a deep breath.
• 40:19
  Brenda: You've got this and you are going to be okay.
• 40:22
  Brenda: You're not doing it alone.
• 40:24
  Brenda: I will meet you right back here next week.