Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / Stalking and Murder of Celeste Manno

Transcript

Stalking and Murder of Celeste Manno · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Celeste Mono was just twenty three years old when her
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: life was stolen in the middle of the night, murdered
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: in her own bed by a man she barely knew.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: For over a year, she had been stalked, harassed, and
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: ignored by a system that failed to protect her despite
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: all the warning signs. This is the heartbreaking and infuriating
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: story of how kindness was mistaken for consent, and how
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: inaction cost a young woman her future.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked Ingram.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: A true crime podcast.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Warning.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: The following podcast and material intended for a mature audience.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Listener discretion is advised.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Did you notice my little stall in there? I like
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: forgot for a hot minute? Again, What the hell I
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: was supposed to say? Because I went and I'm Nicole?
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Oh shit, I'm more.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Well, you got it. You did it?
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Oh wow.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: I think if you paused any longer, it would have
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: been like awkward. But I think you paused just long
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: enough that it was like different, in a little bit suspenseful,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: And no one would have noticed if I didn't say
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: anything unless you did. Because you've seen the fear in
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: my eye for hot minute that I was like, oh no,
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: I have more.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure people listening like caught that it was different,
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: but they would have assumed it was on purpose. But
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: now you outed yourself, So good job I did. We
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: got an interesting story today, and in our pre show
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: over on Patreon, you brought up something in the intro
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: that you wanted to highlight, kindness was mistaken for consent.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I was like, wow, there's a lot of
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: truth there.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: There really is, And I really want to highlight the
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: word mistaken because in this story, this individual doesn't misunderstand
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: the kindness for consent. They mistake kindness for consent. And
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: so when I really want to highlight that and show
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: is that they specifically take it as consent. They choose
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: they don't misunderstanding it and misunderstand it and oh, I'm
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: so sorry, my bad sort of thing. It's a persistent continuing.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: They choose to take it as consent.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: They twist it to be what they want it to
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: be exactly. Yeah. So so yeah, there's two coins there,
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: but I mean both is terrible.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: Two sides to the coin.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, so I don't know, I just yeah,
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: I just when you read that, I was like, I
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: hate that. That is just terrible, because, oh, you don't
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: want to be an asshole. But then sometimes you have to, like,
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: I don't be firm. I guess is what it is.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: More so, well, definitely, and in this case you'll find
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: out that, I mean, Celeste, who is the victim. She
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: wasn't being an asshole, She wasn't leading anyone on. She
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: wasn't being overly kind or overly for flirtatious in any
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: sort of the word. She just simply was being nice.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Wasn't being rude or yeah, it wasn't.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: Being rude, and she was being she was cutting, shutting
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: it down when necessary, but it was still a choice
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: to continue and persist. And it's unfortunate how often that
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: actually happens in the real world still today.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, it's not good.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, there is a difference to being like no
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: means no. We totally get that no does mean no,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: But when someone's like no, stop, like, that's a little different.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: You read the situation. But if someone's like no stop, yeah,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: you better fucking stop.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: But if someone specifically says no, yeah, consent is important.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: And this guy in this story, trust me does not
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: understand consent because it goes a lot farther and unfortunately,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: a lot farther than it should have.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, let's hear it. Okay, let's dive in.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: In the early hours of November sixteenth, twenty twenty, the
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: quiet of a suburban Melbourne street was shattered by the
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: sound of breaking glass. Inside the Mono family home, twenty
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: three year old Celeste was asleep in her bed. She
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: had spent the evening making plans for her upcoming birthday
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: with her mother, and just said good night the way
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: that she always did, with love, warmth and a smile.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: Moments later, her life, unfortunately, though, was stolen in an
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: act of violence that would never have been expected to happen,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: and never should have happened either. Her mother, Aggie, was
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: jolted awake by the crashing sound of glass breaking. She
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: rushed to Celeste's room just steps away, only to walk
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: in into a nightmare. Shards of glass the floor, blood
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: was everywhere, and there, lying motionless on her bed was Celeste.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: What followed would devastate a family, stun a nation, and
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: leave many asking the same gut wrenching question, how could
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: this happen? Now, as it turns out, this wasn't some
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: random act of violence. It wasn't a mystery. In fact,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: the warning signs had been there for well over a year.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: Celeste had done everything she was supposed to do, blocked
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: her stalker, report him to police, asked for help, and
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: unfortunately she just lived in fear. Yet the system that
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: was meant to protect her simply didn't. Now, before we
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: get into anything else, let's start right at the beginning
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: of the story. Celeste Mona was a daughter, a sister,
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: and a friend. She had bright light that shone into
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: the world of everyone who knew her. She was born
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: on November twenty second, nineteen ninety six in Italy and
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: later moved with her family to Melbourne, Australia. She grew
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: up with two brothers, an older half brother, Jaden and
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: a younger brother, Alessandro. The bond she shared with them,
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: especially with her mom, Aggie, was incredibly strong. Celeste had
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: that rare kind of warmth that just pulled people in.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: She was the kind of person who made everyone feel included,
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: whether it was at school or work or just out
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: with friends. She had a way of making people feel
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: seen and feel valued and safe. She loved dancing, music,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: good food, and simple joys in life. She found beauty
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: in everyday moments, and she gave love freely, without hesitation
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: or without judgment.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: She sounds incredible.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: She definitely does seem like.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: A special person, like hard to find kind of those people, one.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: Of those hidden gems sort of say. But the thing though,
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: is though she she just wasn't She wasn't just kind.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: She was also very smart and driven too. So Less
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: studied criminology and psychology university because she wanted to understand
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: people better.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: Oh I feel like this would make that even worse.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Not just for her own curiosity though, but she
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: wanted to help others. So when she said that she
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: wanted to understand people better, it wasn't because she's just like, Oh,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: I just want to understand people and know what makes
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: them tick and you know, maybe tricks how I can improve,
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: you know, connections with people at work to better my career. No,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: she actually wanted to help others because her dream was
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: to become a psychologist and support people through their struggles.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, yeah, that's awesome.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: She wanted to be a guide for those who felt lost.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: Basically now at the time, of her death, she was
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: working as a team leader at a call center in Melbourne,
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: North Northeast. It was there that she met her boyfriend
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Chris Risdale. Ridsdale, Ridsdale. There, Ridsdale, Ridsdale. The D is
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: before the S, not Risdale. It's r I D S
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: D so Ridsdale. Okay, okay, yeah, it'll trip you up
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: if you look at it real quick. You gotta really
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: be careful, because trust me, it tripped me up several
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: times in research and even well the first time trying
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: it on here.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it might again, Yeah, it probably will. Now.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Their relationship was still new, but it was full of
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: laughter and late night phone calls that never ended up
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: with one of them volunteering to hang up first. It was,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: you know, like, oh you hang up first, you hang
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: up first, the sweet little like you know, relationships so cute.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: Chris later described loving Celeste as effortless. To quote him,
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: she just had this energy. She made you want to
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: do better.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, that's so nice. Just effortless like that is nice.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Celeste was at that beautiful point in life where
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: the future that felt wide open. She had dreams that
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: she was working towards people who loved her deeply and
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: a big heart that still had so much more to
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: give now. In twenty eighteen, Luey Seiko was hired as
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: a customer service rep at the same call center where
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: Celesti had worked. He wasn't particularly social or successful at
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: his job. In fact, co workers described him as quiet, introverted,
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: and often quite withdrawn. By twenty nineteen, just a year in,
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: he was unfortunately let go from that position due to
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: poor performance. Now Celeste was his team leader at the time.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: They weren't close by any means, they didn't hang out,
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: and in fact, they barely interacted at all. But when
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: the day came for Luey to leave, she did as
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: she always did. She was kind. She walked him out
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: of the building, wished him well and kept things polite
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: and professional, and offered him a handshake as she gave
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: him those well wishes. Right, you know, I wish you
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: all the best.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: It just sucks she's doing her job, but exactly what
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: it is.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but what Celeste saw as a brief compassionate gesture
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: in that handshake, Luey misread completely. Before she could even
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: turn away, he held onto her hand in that handshake
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: and leaned in and kissed her on the cheek. Now,
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: Celeste was very much so caught off guard.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: Uh huh.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: And when she got home, she told her mom and
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: younger brother what had happened and how embarrassed and uncomfortable
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: she felt in that moment and even still lingering in
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: that in this conversation as she told it to her family.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that's like awkward as shit. But she didn't
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: do anything.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: She didn't. Eggie tried to calm her nerves, assuming it
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: was just a harmless goodbye, maybe a misunderstood crush, you know,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: telling her that he probably liked her the entire time
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: that he worked there and just act on impulsive nerves
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: in the moment. Right, But whatever it was, that kiss
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: was the moment something darker clicked into place for Lue.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: Just weeks later, he began to message her online.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: Okay, but just really quick. Her boyfriend worked there too,
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: right at the call center.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know if he continued to work there. I
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: know he met her there.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, okay, but still, like I mean, I'm sure
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: there was no signs that she was given this dude,
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: that they were anything more than just.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Oh definitely not It was the handshake, it was the
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: walking him out of the bill, the goodbye, trying to
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: be nice and you know and compassionate in a hurtful moment.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's not easy being let go from a
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: job like that. So she's just trying to be, you know,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: a good person to.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: Him, trying to make it like as little as less
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: awkward for him as possible.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: Really, but yeah, now, at first the messages came in
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: from his real account. He thanked her again for her kindness,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: and then he professed his love. He told her she
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: was all he could think about, that he was infactuated, captivated,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: and fascinated by her. He said the image of her
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: was interfering with his ability to even function. It was
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: obsessive right from the start, and he admitted as much.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: So least being the kind person she was, responded as
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: gently as she could to begin with. She thanked him
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: for the kind words, but made it clear that she
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: didn't feel the same way. To quote her, I only
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: feel a professional way towards you. I wish you all
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: the best in your new job and journey.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: Oh that is that is so awkward, that message, It
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: really is. I feel like I wouldn't even know if
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: I would have responded, so I.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: Probably wouldn't have responded either. I probably would have just
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: like blocked. Done. Now, most people would move on one
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: way or another. You know, when they, you know, profess
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: their love to someone over let's say it's Instagram. I'm
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: not sure if it was. I think it was, but
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: I might actually haven't hear written later on what platforms
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: he used, but regardless, let's just say Instagram. For the
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: heat of the moment. For someone who professes their love
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: on Instagram to someone and that person turns them down,
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: I feel professional towards you. Good luck on your journey.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: You're probably going to take the hint. At least most
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: people would you move on. But Luey, he's not most people.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: He messaged her again, and he messaged her again, and
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: once Les finally stopped replying, he created a new Instagram account.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: See there were God it was Instagram to reach out
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: to her, so he wouldn't she wouldn't ignore these messages,
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: so that she sees this account messaging her. Now yeah,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: she's like, I'm not responding and blocking you whatever. Yeah,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: And now he created a new one so new messages
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: would come in, so she would see it.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: That's like a big escalation, really it is.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: However, when this happened, the tone of the messages began
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: to shift. They were less poetic and more desperate. Then
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: came the anger. To quote him, You're no different to
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: the majority of women. I will devote every ounce of
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: energy I have to climbing up and providing to the proving,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: sorry to the world, that I am somebody. This is
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: my promise to you. It's very cryptic and weird and
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: odd and strange.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, maybe just do that to prove it to yourself.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: Right. Still, she tried to handle it herself. She blocked him,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: ignored the messages, and hoped it would just stop eventually,
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: and unfortunately it didn't. It persisted as the weeks rolled
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: into months. Luay Seiko's obsession with Celesti. It didn't fade.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: It intensified. When she blocked one Instagram account, he simply
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: created another, than another, and she blocked that one and another.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: He messaged her from over a dozen different usernames, each
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: time with the same goal to get a response from her,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: and when she didn't respond, his messages would get darker.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: At first, they were filled with declarations of love as
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: I mentioned, and he wrote about how she was the
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: only one he could ever you know, really see a
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: future with, or the only person to ever made him
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: feel this way, that he couldn't sleep, that he couldn't work,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: that she was his quote sun that shines. Oh man, Yeah,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: it was disturbing, but still yeah, yeah.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: Like, what does he think is going to happen with this?
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: It almost seems like he's unwell. I think that's unwell.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: It's going to be what we soon find out for sure,
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: But like for him to just keep messaging and does
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: he just think she's all of a sudden going to
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: change her mind or some shit or I don't know.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: But the messages they would turn very sexual soon. Oh no,
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: in graphic vulgar detail. In fact, Luey began describing things
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: he wanted to do to her. Some were very explicit.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: That's less. Family later said they couldn't even bring themselves
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: to repeat. In interviews, one message read quote, have you
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: ever had a beast pounce on you? I would pounce
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: on you like a pit bull.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: That's so disturbing.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's nothing romantic about that, honestly, that's only just
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: like I as domination. That's scary. That's fucking rapee.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Celeste was horrified.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: Oh man, I can only imagine just how she's feeling.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Like this would consume her, really her life, it would.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: It wasn't any was at first. It was uncomfortable, you know,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: something maybe she could push out of the back of
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: her mind, you know by you know, putting on a podcast,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: listening to music, going for a drive at work, you know,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: getting your mind off things one way or another. But this,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: at this point was no longer something that you could
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: just you know, distract yourself from. This was beginning to
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: be very scary. She told him clearly to stop. She
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: said the messages were making her deeply uncomfortable. She said
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: no repeatedly, but Lui, he wasn't listening. He responded by
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: blaming her. When she asked him to stop contacting her,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: He accused her of being like quote the rest, He
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: made himself the victim, painting her rejection as cruelty, and
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: of course, once again it got worse. Seles started to
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: worry that Luey was beginning to follow her, and unfortunately
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: she was right. One day, she saw him parked outside
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: her work. He wasn't supposed to know where she was
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: working anymore. He wasn't even supposed to know what car
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: she drove. It felt like he was everywhere and that
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: he was watching. The fear was starting to change her life.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: She began sharing her location with her mom. She asked
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: her boss to walk her to her car after every shift.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: She tried to be careful online, but she couldn't live
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: her life in total silence just because someone refused to
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: take no for a fucking answer. The emotional toll was mounting,
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: so less couldn't sleep. She was on the edge at
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: all times. She told coworkers, quote, he's really going to
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: kill me by the early twenty twenty, sorry by the
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: early twenty to me by early twenty twenty.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: There we go.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Ce Lessa and her mom and Aggie had enough. The
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: messages weren't stopping, the fear was growing, and Luai's behavior
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: had gotten far out of control. It's now disturbing to
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: outright threatening levels. So they did what anyone would hope
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: to be the right thing. They went to police. They
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: brought them the screenshots of the messages, accounts evidence. They
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: explained everything, how Celeste had tried to cut out contact,
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: how he'd ignore her, requests how he kept creating new
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: accounts and pestering her, how she'd seen and parked outside
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: her work, and how she was scared, genuinely scared for
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: her safety. But the response they got it was dismissive, cold,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: and honestly just useless.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: How the shit could it be? Are they not doing
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: their job well?
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: According to Eggie, the officer barely skimmed the messages. What
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: the he told them There was no crime here. He said, quote,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: it's social media. If you don't like it, get off
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: social media.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, okay, that's not okay.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: Reportedly, he didn't even take Luey Seiko's name down. No
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: formal report, no warning, no documentation, nothing, just basically saying, well,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: get off social media.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: Then, you know, I feel like I often am like, oh,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: like someone like they're trying, like I always try to
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: see like, you know, the good, but this guy is
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: just shit at his job. There is like no offens
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: buts about it. He sucks.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: Agreed that guy should not be in authority session.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Absolutely not.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: That guy should just be like Luey and get let
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: go for not being a fucking good off.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah period, Yeah, you suck at your job.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: Sorry, Bye bye bye now, lest was stunned at this
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: response as far as that though as far as this
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: visit went, she was obviously on her own.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: Well, and I just have to say too, it probably
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: took so much courage for even going there, for sure,
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: and then to be faced with that that is just yeah,
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: so bad.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: For the next several months, nothing changed. Seless continued to
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: be harassed online. The messages became more aggressive, more frequent,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: and more unhinged. Some days she'd block multiple new accounts
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: within hours. She couldn't post online without wondering if he'd
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: see it, which obviously he was. Yeah, she couldn't walk
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: to her car without watching over her shoulder and looking
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: back behind her to see if he was there. Then,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: in July twenty twenty, after nearly a year of this,
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: Celeste and Aggie went back to police, and this time
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: they came prepared. They brought a Manila envelope filled with
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: printed screenshots of everything, every account, every warning she had
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: tried to give. And this time they found an officer
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: who took them seriously. Okay, he read through the material,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: he asked questions, and then he said something that made
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Aggie's heart sink. Well, before I tell you the exact quote.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: He asked, you've been to police already and they're like, yeah,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: how'd you know? And then he said, quote, let's just
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: say some of us do our job better than others.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: Oh no, yeah, So it was just like a known
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: thing that this one guy just doesn't give a shit
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: about anything.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: One guy or others who knows. But this officer clearly
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: was taking it more seriously and is aware that there
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: is holes in the system because people just suck.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: That just angers me. That is such bullshit. It is.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: But unfortunately, I mean, when a system fails, that's the
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: sort of situation you're left with.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, and we hear it's like that happens
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: in many areas.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, way too often, but especially.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: In an area like that. I just feel like you
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: can't suck at your job. That's like that is I mean,
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: it affects people's lives, for God's sake.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it does. Now this officer, he of course, was
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: doing his job, and he immediately recommended that they file
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: for a personal safety intervention order or a PSIO. It's
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: basically a restraining order under Victorian law in Australia, meant
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: to protect someone from harassment or threats, and within days
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: that order was granted.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: Because someone was doing their.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: Job exactly now, for the first time in over a year,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: Celeste felt something close to peace. That PSIO gave her
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: legal ground to stand on. It was finally officially on
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: the record. Luey Seiko was not allowed to contact her,
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: and for a while it worked. There were no new messages,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: no accounts, no sightings of him. It finally felt like
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: she could exhale and relax. But then just weeks later,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: something arrived in her inbox. It was a long handwritten
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: letter from lue three pages, begging her to drop the order.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: He promised things like he wasn't gonna do any more
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: threats or saying that it was just all Instagram dms,
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: whatever that means, and he said she didn't need to worry,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: and at the bottom of the letter it was finished
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: off with a little smiley face. The only problem with
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: this letter is he had violated the order again, and
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: yet again, Celeste had to be the one to bring
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: it to the police. So in August of twenty twenty,
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: after sending Celeste that three page letter violating the intervention order,
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: he was arrested.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: Okay, good, now.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: For a moment, it felt like maybe things were finally done, finally,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: you know, turning into sleste favor. Maybe now the law
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: would protect her, maybe this whole nightmare would finally be over.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: But the very next day, Luey was released from custom.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: One day, one night, Yeah, one day, which honestly, isn't
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: that bad.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: Understandably, he just sent her a letter. He just like,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: you know, there's a little bit of stocking going on.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: He just sent her one more message. Okay, keep that
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: in mind. But the worst part about this part of
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: the situation is once he was released, there was no
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: monitoring in place. There was no heightened restrictions, no safety nets, nothing,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: just you broke the law one night in jail. Okay, bye, No,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: that's it.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: So it's sort of in his mind, well that didn't
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: really like that wasn't that bad?
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: Maybe? Yeah, I mean, we'll touch on what he thought
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: about it here in a minute. But there was nothing
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: to go along with it to ensure that they're mitigating
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: any sort of risks. Dang, there's no consequences to his
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: actions other than just you know, spending the night. Yeah,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: and there's nothing to prevent him from doing it again
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: or escalating any further. Now and Aggie were stunned. After everything,
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: after all the messages, the fear, the warning signs, they
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: just let him go and worse now, he was enraged.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: It was like being rejected all over again, but this
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: time with legal consequences. To him. That wasn't justice, it
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: was betrayal.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Really. See, I also thought maybe that could just scare
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: the shit out of him a bit, and okay, this
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: is you know, this is going to affect my life
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: now or whatever, so I'll stop.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: But he was directly pissed right at Celeste for that.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: He was blaming her for him getting arrested. It was
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: her fault. How dare she do that to him?
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: Wow?
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: He didn't send her any messages after that, He didn't
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: show up to her work again. It looked like things
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: had gone quiet. But that quiet shouldn't be mistaken for peace,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: because it wasn't peace.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: He was plotting.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: He was planning. Unbeknownst to Celeste or anyone else, Luey
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: was preparing for something much darker. See, he had started researching.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: He studied her social media photos and posts to confirm
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: her address. He used online maps to view her street
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: and somehow managed to get a floor plan of her
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: house and he figured out which room was hers.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Shit.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, now, I'm not saying it was like the floor
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: plan was like blueprints or anything like that, but he
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: figured out some floor plans and he was able to
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: figure out which was hers from pictures, clues, watching the street,
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: all these sort of things. He knew which window of
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: the house was her room.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, that's terrifying.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: Once he had all this figured out, he purchased a
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: large kitchen knife, a hammer, and he waited. Three months passed.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: There was no contact, nothing suspicious, nothing at all. Just
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: that quiet that I said was not peace.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: Well. Yeah, and in that time, though, she's probably letting
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: her guard down a little.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she believed that maybe this is really over. She
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: was starting to, you know, move forward in life again,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: putting her energy into her relationship with her boyfriend Chris.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: She was now planning her twenty fourth birthday. She posted
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: a photo with Chris on a rooftop bar, their first
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: date since lockdowns began, erasing you know, their public appearance
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: because hey COVID, Yeah, yep, she looked happy, lighthearted, safe.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: It was the kind of photo most of us wouldn't
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: think twice about sharing, but for Luway Seiko, that photo
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: of them was a trigger.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: Pissed him right off. I'm sure I guess yeah.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: Seeing Celeste smiling, living her life, loving someone else, it
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: shattered the fantasy he'd been clinging to. To him, it
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: wasn't just a post. It was proof that she'd quote
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: moved on, that she'd chosen someone else, that she'd rejected him,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: not just in words, but an actuality within life. He
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: couldn't accept it, and so in the early hours of
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: November sixteenth, twenty twenty, he put his plan into action.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: He left his home and he drove to Celeste's. He
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: circled a block and parked his car. Then he climbed
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: the fence, walked into her backyard and stood beneath her
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: bedroom window in the pitch black of night. Just after
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: four a m. He managed to get to her window.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: He raised the hammer and shattered that thin glass barrier
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: that was separating him from Celeste. The Mono family home
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: in Mirnda, a quiet suburb of Melbourne, was jolted into chaos.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: A loud crash of shattering glass woke Celeste's mother, Angie
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: from her Sorry Aggie from her sleep. Something felt wrong.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Immediately deeply wrong. She bolted from bed and ran barefoot
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: down the hallway towards her daughter's room. She's calling out
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: to her, but what Aggie found on the other side
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: of that door was every parent's worst nightmare. Celeste was
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: just twenty three years old, and there she was, lying
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: motionless on her bed, soaked in blood. Her bedroom window
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: had been smashed, shards of glass scattered across the floor,
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: A large kitchen knife lay on the bed near her feet.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: In a panic, Aggie screamed her daughter's name and rushed
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: to her side, not even realizing she was running and
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: stepping on broken glass, cutting her feet along the way,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: and she tried desperately to pull her from the bed,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: away from all the glass. Begging her to respond. She
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: called the emergency services and began CPR, but it was
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: too late.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: That seems so quick.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: In under three minutes, lest had been stabbed twenty three times.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: What wounds to her chest, abdomen, legs, and arms and
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: defensive wounds that showed she tried to fight back, but
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: according to the corner, it was the first stab wound,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: the one that pierced her heart, that killed her.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: Okay, so she just really didn't stand a chance, I
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: guess nope.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: The rest were described as overkill, an explosion of rage
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: and brutality. The attack was so swift and efficient that
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: by the time Aggie reached the bedroom, the killer had
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: already vanished. WHOA now the man who took selest life
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: was no surprise here. Luey Seiko, the man who had
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: stalked her for over a year. He didn't try to hide. Instead,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: he drove himself directly to a local police station. Still
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: covered in celeste blood. He calmly handed over celeste address
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: and told officers, quote, she's dead, go have a look. Then,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: with a chilling detachment from reality, he added, you know
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: what happened, It's your fault.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: He also tried to provoke officers into shooting him. They didn't. Instead,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: they arrested him.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: Unbelievable. This guy is unbelievable. Yeah, he just blames every
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: anyone else for everything.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Everything.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: Gosh, I just like to spise him.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, nothing's his fault. Back at the Mono home, paramedics
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: arrived quickly, but there was nothing they could do. Celeste
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: was already gone. The young woman who had dedicated her
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: life to kindness, who wanted to be a psychologist to
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: help other people, who had done everything in her power
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: to protect herself from a man she barely knew. She
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: was murdered in her own bed just days before her
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: twenty fourth birthday.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: That's so young.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: Luey Seiko had stalked her, harassed her, violated legal orders,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: and told her exactly the kind of man he was,
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: and still nothing had been done to stop him. Now
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: Celeste was gone, and everyone who loved her was left
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: to pick up those pieces. In the days following celest
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: Mono's murder, the grief that settled over her family was immeasurable.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Her mother Aggie, who had cradled her daughter's body just
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: minutes after the attack, was now left with the unbearable
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: silence of a home that would never be the same.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: Her younger brother Alessandro, once just down the hall, now
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: stood in a space defied by loss, defined by loss sorry.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: And her father Tony and older brother Jaden, they each
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: shattered in their own way, joined in a morning process
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: that would never truly end. More than one hundred people
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: attended Sles's funeral. She was remembered not just for the
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: tragic way that her life ended, but for the light
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: that she brought to others while she was here, her laughter,
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: her warmth end, as I mentioned many times, her immense kindness.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: The community rallied behind the Mono family, devastated by the
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: senseless murder that just occurred. Meanwhile, luey Seiko was in custody.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: In the weeks and months that followed, the legal proceedings
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: would drag on. It would be far from smooth to
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: manipulate the justice system from inside his cell. He fired
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: and rehired lawyers multiple times, delayed hearings, classic every move
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: in the book sort of thing, to prolong whatever he could.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: He changed his plea and even attempted to represent himself
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: in court. At one point, he tried to argue that
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: he'd only inflicted two wounds, even though they were twenty three.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, good luck with that one, buddy.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was easily disproved. He leaned heavily on claims
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: of mental illness, of course, telling psychiatrists he'd been influenced
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: by a hallucinated figure named Isaiah, But multiple forensic experts
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: they saw right through it. They noted that his descriptions
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: matched textbook criteria too closely, almost like someone who had
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: studied the symptoms rather than someone truly suffering from them.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: In one psychiatrist's view, the hallucinations that he claimed were
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: likely just Luay's way of separating himself from the violent
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: side of his personality, basically an easy way to deflect
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: the blame. Despite these manipulations, the court eventually found Luey
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: Seiko fit to stand trial. He pled guilty to celess
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: murder in early twenty twenty four, over three years after
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: the crime. On February twenty ninth, twenty twenty four, Justice
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: Jane Dixon handed down the sentence thirty six years in prison,
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: with a possibility of parole after thirty The courtroom was
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: packed with seless family and friends, dressed all in black,
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: holding each other tightly. As the judge read the sentence.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: There were tears, not just for the grief they carried,
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: but for the sense that justice once again had fallen short.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: Aggie Mono had written two speeches that day, one for
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: if her daughter's killer received life and one if he didn't.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: When the judge spared him the harshest sentence available under
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Victorian law, Aggie tore up the first speech and delivered
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: the second, her voice shaking with anger and heartbreak. She
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: called the decision outrageous, accusing the court of showing mercy
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: to a man who had shown her daughter none to
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: quote her at least just a little. It's unbelievable that
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: the system protected him more than it protected her. I
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: don't believe in parole. I don't believe in releasing murderers
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: to murder again. Celestiano's murder wasn't random it was It
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: wasn't unpredictable either. It was the end result of a
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: system that saw the warning signs over and over, and
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: yet it just failed to act in time. For more
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: than a year, Celeste was stalked, harassed, and threatened by Luet.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: She blocked him, reported him, took legal steps to protect herself,
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: and even told police that she feared he might kill her.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Yet at every critical point where intervention could have made
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: a difference, the system faltered. When she first went to police,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: she and her mother were dismissed. The officer they spoke
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: to didn't take notes or records or names, nothing as
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: I mentioned. Instead, celest was told to just ignore it
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: and get off social media. No form of action was taken,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: no follow up was done. It wasn't until the second
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: visit months later with pages of evidence in hand that
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: a personal safety intervention order was finally granted because someone
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: actually did their job. Even then, the protection was fragile.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: When Luey violated the order with a letter being sent
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: to Celest. There was no electronic monitoring after he was released,
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: no risk assessment protocol, no consistent enforcement of legal boundaries
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: to keep her safe.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: Unfortunately, this whole issue isn't unique to Celeste case. Between
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: twenty eleven and twenty twenty, the Australian Victoria Police received
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: over one hundred thousand applications for personal safety intervention orders.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: During that same period, they recorded nearly twenty six thousand
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: breaches of those orders. That is over twenty five percent
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: breaching the order, along with more than two thy one
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: hundred stocking offenses. Despite the volume of reports, few of
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: these cases result in significant criminal consequences unless the behavior
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: escalates to violence. So they let it escalate to violence
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: before they do anything, is essentially what I'm.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: Saying, huh okay, that's so alarming.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: After sless deaths, death public pressure grew. In twenty twenty one,
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: the Victorian Law Reform Commission conducted an in depth review
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: of the state's stalking laws. The report included forty five
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: recommendation measures that would improve early detection, expand to definitions
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: of stalking, and introduce better tools for police response, but
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: as of twenty twenty four, not a single one of
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: those recommendations has been fully implemented. One tool that did
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: emerge was a screening process known as SASH, a Screening
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: Assessment for stocking and harassment. It was designed for police
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: to help these officers identify high risk cases early and
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: intervene before violence do occur, but four years after Celest's death,
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: the tool still hasn't been rolled out across all police stations,
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: so it's still a work in progress. When pressed about
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: the delay, Victorian Attorney General acknowledged the importance of the initiative,
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: but offered no clear timeline for full implementation. She said
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: there are no easy fixes, a statement that didn't sit
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: well with those who knew Celest or understood how preventable
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: her death truly was. And in all honesty, it just
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: shows that she doesn't have a fire lit under her
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: ass because this is a system that could save lives. Yeah,
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: and to say that there's no easy fixes, yeah, you're right,
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: But you can help save people if you get this
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: implemented soon.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you light a fire and on your ass. Yeah.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: So while what what she's saying is true, it also
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: shows that she's a little bit too lax celest mother,
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: Aggie has been vocal about these failures. She filed a
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: civil suit against Victoria Police, accusing them of negligence and
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: a breach of duty. Her argument is simple. If police
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: had conducted a proper risk assessment, if there had if
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: they had taken sless fears seriously from the start, if
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: they had enforced the law with urgency the urgency had deserved,
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: her daughter might still be alive. After losing her daughter
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: in this horrific way, the most horrific way imaginable. Honestly,
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: Aggie could have disappeared into grief, no one would have
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: blamed her. She had experienced what most people can even comprehend,
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: the death of a child, not by accident, but through
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: a slow and painful build up of fear, warning signs
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: and inaction resulting in murder. In fact, she was even
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: there to hold her as her body was still bleeding out.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't even know how you move forward from that.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: Really well, she managed to because instead of retreating, Aggie
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: chose to fight. In the days following seless murder, she
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: made a promise not just to herself but to her daughter.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: She would get justice, not just in the courtroom, but
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: in the laws, the systems, and the protections that failed
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: so badly. Her first step was going public. She stood
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: in front of news cameras, not as a spokesperson but
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: as a mother, a mother furious that her daughter's killer
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: was shown mercy by the courts whilst Lest herself had
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: been shown none. When Luey Seiko was sentenced to thirty
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: six years with a non parole period of thirty Aggie
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: ripped up her speech and of course made her resentment
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: quite clear. But she didn't stop at that microphone. Aggie
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: began pushing for real legislative change. She called for mandatory
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: electronic monitoring of anyone under a personal safety intervention order,
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: arguing that if Luey had been tracked, lest might still
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: be alive. She rallied for law enforcement to treat stalking
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: not as a nuisance or inconvenience, but as a credible threat,
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: because her daughter that's what it was to her. She
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: also started working with advocacy groups with and legal experts
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: to pressure the Victorian government to implement the full list
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: of reforms recommended by the Law Reform Commission. She highlighted
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: the delay in rolling out the SASH assessment tool, calling
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: it a lack of resources dedicated to early intervention in
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: stocking cases. Her mission is ongoing. She doesn't just want reform,
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: she wants transformation, and she's not backing down. For every
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: parent who's ever worried about their child's safety, for every
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: woman who's felt unsafe walking to her car, and for
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: every stalking victim who's been told just ignore it, Aggie
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: is determined to be the voice that says this isn't
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: good enough any more. And above all, she's doing it
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: for her daughter, Celeste. And that's the story of Celeste Mono.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: Who man, that one just guts Yeah. Yeah. Also, like
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: her mom is incredible, but it's not surprising being that,
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: like she raised also such an incredible person.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Well, and I want to say, Aggie is our badass
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: of the day. I went on quite a bit of
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: a rent there at the end about Aggie and what
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: she's doing and what she's trying to fight for because
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: I watched there's some interviews with her, and she is
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: like in fucking tears and she's describing in detail what happened,
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: and she's fighting through it all to make sure that
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: she's giving her daughter and other people in that situation
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: a voice and trying to reform the situation and ensure
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: that people do their fucking job and that the system
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: doesn't fail others and end up in lives being lost.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: So Aggie is one percent or badass of the day. Yeah,
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: so shout out to her totally.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The fact that she's just using like her daughter's
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: death for the for good really and giving her power
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: to like, hopefully this doesn't happen to someone else kind
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: of Yeah, so because it will, Like that's it will
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: it will if nothing's changed, right.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, unfortunately we live in a world where there
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: are people who don't give a shit and just say
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: we'll get off social media.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: Then oh yeah. But the thing is, like, especially this guy,
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: he was like persistent, and you know, if she got
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: off social media like he, it wouldn't matter, No, it wouldn't.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: He'd find other ways and it wouldn't.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: And honestly, why can't she be on social media? She
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: doesn't have to be off it?
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: One hundred percent. But I'm just saying if she say
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: followed that it's not going to change anything, she just
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: then wouldn't be able to like post shit that she
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: wants to post with her friends. I know, so that's
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: not okay.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: But in all honesty, like if we were on the
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: clock back to the seventies, right before there was the internet,
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: before there was social media, we're in the seventies, okay,
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: and someone's stocking you in the seventies, how do they
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: stalk you? If they're going to be messaging you over
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: and over, they deliver shit to your house so you
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: get physical mail at your mailbox, right, Yeah, Now, imagine
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: taking letters from a stalker to an officer and he
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: looks at them and says, well, don't have an address,
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: then get out of that house.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: Are you kidding me?
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: In today's society, you almost need to be on social media.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: If you're going to apply for a job, they pretty
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: much always look at your LinkedIn your social history.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: Like it would probably be weird if you had nothing.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: Exactly how do you keep in contact? Like it's the
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: internet is a part of our daily lives now.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: I mean fact, I just have to clarify weird for
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: an employer, not necessarily, Like I actually think having no
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: social media would be awesome, but then we all, like
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: lots of people need it for their jobs and stuff too,
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: Like we post on there to advertise and stuff.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: So exactly our job is, well, line is this podcast
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: to tell me to get off social media. That's my living,
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: that's what I do. You can't do that to someone, no, no,
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: so I'm sorry, but right now to that officer, fuck you.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well I know you almost hope that guy doesn't
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: have a job anymore.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: Really, I honestly do.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: But then the numbers you gave to it was so
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: many numbers. It's like you almost wonder if they have enough,
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: you know, people in position to do something when they're
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: getting that many drastic numbers of like I can't remember
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: what it was called, but these people getting this protection
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: and shit right, yeah.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: It was the SI. We'll just call it a restraining
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: order because that's basically what it is, but just specifically
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: under the Victorian Australian law. But yeah, the restraining orders,
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: it was like one hundred thousand within that time period
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: I gave and it was over just over twenty five
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: percent of them being breached, like are you kidding me? So, yeah,
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: is there enough people in a position to actually enforce
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: mandaties and process them.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: Because I feel like that's something. I mean, that one
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: guy one hundred percent wasn't doing his job, But then
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: some people they might also be like spread away too thin,
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: too right, So true, I don't know. It's honestly really
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: alarming that there is even that many that people are
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: that messed up, that there's that many.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: Well, that's those are the ones that are actually reporting it. Yeah,
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: those are the case. That's the Probably it's probably at
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: least double that, probably way more. But just for argument's sake,
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: let's just say it's fifty percent of the actual cases,
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: fifty percent of them get reported, and the other fifty
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: percent just go unreported. So say two hundred thousand in
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: that period. That's terrible because how many people don't trust
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: the police or feel like they can't go to police,
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: or in a position where they can't speak up, or
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: they just think nothing's going to happen. I'm gonna try
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: and take matters into my own hands, try and solve it.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: They move, they do, get off social media, you know
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: that sort of stuff.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what kind of makes you scared shit, let's
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: say about this this world.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but then you have people like Aggie yes, oh my,
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: and the officer who actually did do his job. There
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: are good people out there too well.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: And that officer too, Like I'm sure that this whole
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: thing just like gutted him, and that first guy probably
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: didn't give a shit at all, which is maddening.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like I said to him, fuck you. He's a
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: douche canoe through and through. But anyways, thank you for
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: being here. Hopefully enjoyed this episode. It is a frustrating one.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: I can understand if you're probably screaming at us over
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: on the other side of this, if you're on headphones
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: or speakers, whatever. But if you do want to check
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: out some other episodes, if you want to get into Patreon,
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: some other of our social media links, because we ain't
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: getting off social media all. In the description of this podcast,
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: you can check it out if you want to give
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: us a review. We're an indie podcast, produced research host
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: on our own. There's no big corporation pulling strings like
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: puppeteering us. We do what we want, when we want,
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: how we want it, and if you like that, we'd
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: appreciate a good review from you because it really helps us.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: We sure would, we sure would.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Anyways, thank you for being here, and until next time,
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: stay wicked.