Latest / Story Scaling / The Soul of the Mundane: Why the everyday is our greatest story

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The Soul of the Mundane: Why the everyday is our greatest story · Story Scaling

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Storyscaling by Podcastvideos.com, where creators share the truth behind the content, the grind, and the growth.
0:10
SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, friends and family, I am Bang of Podcastvideos.com.
0:14
SPEAKER_00: As you know, thank you so much for watching these videos.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: I say it every single episode, but um, I wouldn't be able to do these episodes if you weren't watching them.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: So if there's a guest you want to see, a topic you want to talk about, then let me know.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: And don't forget to like, subscribe, and so on and so forth.
0:29
SPEAKER_00: I kind of look at every camera.
0:30
SPEAKER_00: I never really know what it looks like.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: I'm always like I'm popping around, but now I'm locked in.
0:36
SPEAKER_00: Today is a what I would consider special conversation.
0:40
SPEAKER_00: Jessica, I met you um a month ago, and first combo, I'm like, you need to come on my show.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: And so uh thank you for being here.
0:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm excited.
0:50
SPEAKER_00: I am uh I'm gonna read your bio.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: I've been polling the streets, and this is this I've been talking to the streets, and uh, this is what the streets say about Jessica Whalen.
1:00
SPEAKER_02: You ready?
1:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, I'm ready.
1:02
SPEAKER_00: It says today's guest is Jessica Whalen, an empathetic filmmaker, storyteller, and strategist who is redefining what it means to show up in a digital world.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: While the creative industry often obsesses over speed, output, and high octane energy, Jessica brings a grounded con and a deeply intentional presence to the lens.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: Through her company, Jessica Whalen Films, she specializes in what she calls storytelling for the almost brave.
1:27
SPEAKER_00: Her work isn't about being loud or the most epic, it's about the soul, the intimacy, and the honest beauty found in the simple, typical moments of a life or brand.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: With a background that spans from intimate family films to high-level visibility messaging and strategy, Jessica helps her clients find the bravery to be seen and the knowledge that their stories are worthy of sharing and connecting with.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: She is an artist who values curiosity over content, empathy over clicks.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: Today we're diving into her perspective on art, the power of slowing down, and how to tell stories that actually make people feel seen and celebrated.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, Jessica Whalen.
2:05
SPEAKER_01: Well, I actually feel very seen.
2:08
SPEAKER_01: I appreciate that.
2:10
SPEAKER_01: Can you like send me that?
2:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I will.
2:12
SPEAKER_01: Update my bio for that.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thanks.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I I laugh and I joke, but and and I could have gone on.
2:18
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that was like kind of first thing, you know, that came to mind and that I wrote out.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: But when I think of you like that is you, and that's what you do, you know.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: And um, I'm curious what what sticks out in your mind?
2:31
SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes people who are doing the thing, you never stop and kind of look at yourself and give yourself your own flowers or be like, you know, I'm, you know, you're just on to the next thing.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
2:42
SPEAKER_00: So when you hear this and you think about this, like what kind of pops out to you?
2:45
SPEAKER_01: I think that part of it, I think, is like hearing some of the things that I have intentionally always tried to do and be come through.
2:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, because sometimes you can be like, I think this is who I this is what I want to bring to my business, to my clients, to myself, but you don't actually like know because you're again just so busy going back and forth, getting the deadlines hit, things like that.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: Um but also like I think the thing that stuck out to me was you seeing like the or calling out the kind of my priorities are there, which is I from the very beginning, you know, I started making content for other people to put on the internet in like 2012.
3:32
SPEAKER_02: Oh wow.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: So it was like peak, like epic YouTuber content, right?
3:37
SPEAKER_01: And and I I love watching that, but I um before that, when I wasn't still in school, I'll backtrack a little bit.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: When I was in school, I had an editing class and I kept getting counted off for creativity.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: Um important note that I was the only girl in the room in my class.
3:57
SPEAKER_01: And so all of the boys were doing like sports edits, action edits, horror edits, and all of my projects were just like real life.
4:05
SPEAKER_01: So even if they were like fake characters that I'd made up, it was all about like the quirkiness or the heart of like a real life story.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: And so I kept getting counted off for creativity in that class.
4:19
SPEAKER_01: And so one day I finally was just like, I gave him a list of like YouTube trailer links of like these are all the films I wish I had made.
4:27
SPEAKER_01: And do you see that even when they're in these like fictional worlds, you see yourself or your parents or like your experience in them, and they were always like celebrating, seeing, elevating the experience of the everyday person.
4:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: And so I feel like even though I didn't realize it, like I was honestly just fighting to keep my like GPA at that moment because I wanted, I was like, I need to keep my GPA.
4:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but also I want you to understand where I'm coming from.
4:59
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: But the fact that I unknowingly decided at that point like about the kind of artist I was gonna be, the kind of stories I wanted to tell, the way I wanted to see the world.
5:11
SPEAKER_01: And so then back to I'm now trying to start a business in 2012 in the world of video, and I'm the only woman-owned videography company in the state of Arkansas, and it's peak YouTube creation, all these epic things.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: And at one point I had to stop and say, I am either going to view the fact that I am different and I want to do things differently as like a strength or a hindrance, right?
5:41
SPEAKER_01: And I really got tired of showing up and trying to explain away that what I thought was important.
5:48
SPEAKER_01: Explain away, like, no, no, no, I understand, like I'm I'm a girl in a room of guys, I'm not epic, all these things, but like trust me, you'll still like what I do.
5:58
SPEAKER_01: Instead, kind of intentionally saying, like, everything I'm doing is on purpose, and I view it as a strength, and I'm just going to leave it up to you to see it as a strength or not.
6:09
SPEAKER_01: And so in the bio, like kind of feeling that same rhythm that I've tried to put in again, unintentionally in school, but then intentionally, as I've grown my business since 2012, of like to me, it is about doing it well or taking the time because a lot of times if we're going too fast, we don't notice something really special happening, or it being about the human spirit, not pleasing an algorithm that's gonna change in 13 minutes.
6:39
SPEAKER_01: Right.
6:39
SPEAKER_01: Like putting putting art on this, like putting art on this conveyor belt of a product is never what I was interested in.
6:50
SPEAKER_01: And so um, I know it is sometimes how I talk about myself, but um it's what I like as it's because it's what I aspire to do in my business and with my clients and in my own art.
7:02
SPEAKER_01: And so, like seeing that or hearing that called out in the bio was like, oh, maybe I am like this thing I'm doing on purpose.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: Maybe I'm actually maybe it's actually happening.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: No, yeah, like I I I love that.
7:14
SPEAKER_00: And thank you for sharing that story.
7:17
SPEAKER_00: Do we need to kind of like point at that professor and diss him right now?
7:21
SPEAKER_00: Like, are we are we good?
7:22
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't even remember.
7:24
SPEAKER_01: Okay, good.
7:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: No, I don't I don't want to cause any further, you know, no, no clickbait stuff, but you know, I stop and give her give her a better brain.
7:33
SPEAKER_00: Give that next share one better.
7:34
SPEAKER_01: There are more creative things than sports.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: No, I there is a um a social media influencer, and his brand is called Normalize the Normal.
7:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: And it's it's hilarious.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: It was almost a parody account, but like to your point, you know, when we were using YouTube very, very early on, it was very much like sizzle reel, epic rock climb, and jumping off of you know cliffs and all of that cool stuff, which to your point is cool, right?
8:02
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
8:02
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: But there's a whole nother world out there, and now it's so interesting to see how night and day things are because now, like, my little brother and sister, they're watching YouTubers that just like get up in the morning, brush their teeth, get in their car, like nothing, nothing crazy, like just regular everyday life.
8:19
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
8:20
SPEAKER_01: And I think it's like anytime you start to think about like the strategy of the internet, right?
8:25
SPEAKER_01: That there's this point where, like, because you see what the algorithm rewards, you as a human, if you're not like conscious of your own thought process, you're gonna think that's what matters most, right?
8:40
SPEAKER_01: Of like, I'm not living an epic life.
8:43
SPEAKER_01: Therefore, and like millions of people would not want to see my life.
8:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:47
SPEAKER_01: So is my what life even like worthy of noticing, right?
8:51
SPEAKER_01: Where like every human outside of the internet, even just within your own world, your physical world, we all deeply desire, but also deserve to have people bear witness to us and our existence and our life.
9:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:06
SPEAKER_01: And so when the internet started kind of rewarding if you look like this, live like this, act like this, do these things, then it became this very clear division of like, well, I'm not any of those, right?
9:19
SPEAKER_01: I don't look like that, I don't live like that, I don't spend my time this way.
9:23
SPEAKER_01: And so I must not be like worthy of that witness.
9:28
SPEAKER_01: And so I think that was where it was like, it didn't feel like enough to just be like, oh, I don't want to make work that way.
9:34
SPEAKER_01: It felt really important for me to like sort of plant my flag and be like, if this is not you, like I've built a table for you over here.
9:44
SPEAKER_01: Like, I actually want you, I want your story, I want you to come home over here where I can tell you like how worthy you are of being seen, how beautiful your life is, everything that you say, I'm just is an incredible magical thing that you're doing, right?
10:02
SPEAKER_01: No matter what it is, even if it's like just getting up, just waking up, like that's really hard.
10:08
SPEAKER_01: Being a human is really hard.
10:09
SPEAKER_01: Just getting up and living a normal life and providing for the people around you, like all of those things are worthy of being seen.
10:16
SPEAKER_01: And I think that that was where, like, because I'm not just consuming media, I'm also like fascinated with how the media is received or processed through algorithms or things like that.
10:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:30
SPEAKER_01: But I was like, oh, we actually have to like intentionally pull back and say who's being left out of rooms now because of what the internet decided was worthy.
10:45
SPEAKER_01: And so that was where I was like, I wanted to build something that again like felt like a home or a table for people who I'm always impressed by, which is just normal people, yeah.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, to come and be seen and celebrated and so that other people could find them too.
11:04
SPEAKER_00: Second career definitely therapist.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: I'm calling the guy.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's a that bruh, like I'm over here, like just listening to you, like, yeah, that's true.
11:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes sense.
11:14
SPEAKER_00: Resonated.
11:15
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
11:15
SPEAKER_00: There's there's a rapper I like, his name is Future, and he has a he has a line in this song where he says, It's a full-time job trying to stay on play.
11:22
SPEAKER_00: Like every day, just trying to show up is a full, you know what I mean?
11:26
SPEAKER_00: Like, this is before I go and do X, Y, and Z.
11:29
SPEAKER_00: Like just showing up, sitting across the table from you is a full-time job.
11:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:33
SPEAKER_00: And that's what I'm hearing you say a lot of how our mere existence, which is really cool because I see some overlap in our brands, but that's that's kind of my entire brand is like you as a human being, you know, not a human doing, are worthy of love and validation and all of the things without ever having to be epic or special.
11:53
SPEAKER_00: Like the fact that you're alive and you're here is epic and special.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah.
11:57
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
11:58
SPEAKER_00: And so I'm curious for you, like, where did this level of understanding, empathy, like where did this even come from?
12:04
SPEAKER_00: Like, how did you get to to this point?
12:07
SPEAKER_01: I think that part of it is just like nature.
12:12
SPEAKER_01: I, you know, I think that there's just natural giftings or like leanings that people are born with.
12:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, I was always like the overly sensitive, like the obsessed with stories, like all these kinds of things as a kid.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: Um and but I also like nature and nurture, right?
12:36
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I was bored, like I don't know if you know much about the Enneagram.
12:38
SPEAKER_01: Or like a little bit.
12:39
SPEAKER_01: I'm an Enneagram for.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: So I like it, it's just kind of in my nature to like be a noticer and creative and things like that.
12:46
SPEAKER_01: But nurture's also there.
12:48
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, not to be a downer, but I was like deeply unseen in a lot of areas in my life.
12:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, I was really bullied.
12:58
SPEAKER_01: I didn't have friends until I made two friends in like my last year of high school.
13:03
SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, I grew up in a small town.
13:06
SPEAKER_01: I grew up in like I swam in water that I just knew from so early on that I didn't belong in because I was curious and asked questions, curious and asked questions and just wanted to live life really authentically and didn't know how to like code switch, even as like a kid or a middle schooler or things like that.
13:28
SPEAKER_01: And so um I think most of the time when people are building businesses, they build something that like a different version of them desperately needed.
13:41
SPEAKER_01: Um like the the tools they use might be different, right?
13:45
SPEAKER_01: But the motivation, I think we often are um creating something that a past version of us would have like greatly benefited from or desperately needed, right?
13:57
SPEAKER_01: Like you're a coach because you wish someone had taught you this earlier, or whatever's happening.
14:02
SPEAKER_01: And so for me, I think that uh all I wanted like in life was to be seen and to be seen as enough, right?
14:14
SPEAKER_01: I didn't even want like the celebrated, I didn't, I just wanted to be seen as enough.
14:19
SPEAKER_01: And so I think that that like inherently motive that just motivated me to make sure that everybody who I see gets that, right?
14:31
SPEAKER_01: Like that my circle of empathy expands to anybody I could possibly know about.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: And I think that as I was growing up and trying to figure out like what tools I had, whether it was creativity or whatever it was gonna be, that was always gonna be the like foundational underlayment is how can I make sure that people who aren't being seen or aren't being seen as enough or exist outside again of what is deemed worth perceiving and celebrating gets the like soft, gentle spotlight that I wish I had had growing up.
15:13
SPEAKER_01: So I feel like it was kind of like a nature versus nurture.
15:19
SPEAKER_00: You see my face right now?
15:21
SPEAKER_00: Zoom in on my face right now.
15:23
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm over here, like thank you for sharing that.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I feel like I'm learning how to just create some space, you know, and just let stuff kind of breathe.
15:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:39
SPEAKER_00: But that was so well said and well articulated.
15:42
SPEAKER_00: And I think about how, yes, you're exactly right.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: Now we're at a stage in our lives where so much of what we're doing and experiencing is like not only healing younger us, but trying to be that space that we wish that we had.
15:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: So much of everything is that, you know what I mean?
15:59
SPEAKER_00: And so it's interesting that you that you carry that into everything you do.
16:06
SPEAKER_00: It's the through line, it's the undercurrent.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: And genuinely, like it's a lot of businesses out here that's kind of like saying they do this, but it's like, you don't really care about the kids, like, or you don't really care about the, you know, and yeah, and for better or for worse.
16:18
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm not singling anybody out, but you know, when even in a conversation with you, your values are evident, you know.
16:25
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
16:26
SPEAKER_00: How you listen to people, how you, you know, look at people and so on and so forth.
16:29
SPEAKER_00: And so the world ain't really like that no more.
16:32
SPEAKER_00: Just you know what I'm just like.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm curious.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: You know, let's get to some let's get to some brass tacks.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: Like it doesn't feel like, you know, that we are living in a world that's championing seeing one another.
16:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: Right?
16:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's in a in a creative space, whether that's in like the world in general, you know, and it has gotten to the point where this might be a complex concept, but work with me here.
16:58
SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay.
16:59
SPEAKER_00: So I went to LA for a show two years ago.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: And everyone was kind of in their own world, really.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: To the point where people really wouldn't even make eye contact with you.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: And it made me start realizing at that point, like, oh man, we're in a space where attention is now currency.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: Because if I make eye contact, like if I see you, if I like, if I validate your existence, then either you think that's an invitation to come and talk to me, or like I could want something from you, or whatever, right?
17:33
SPEAKER_00: Insert anything.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: So people really weren't even really just looking at each other.
17:37
SPEAKER_00: It was very much like, oh, I'm here, I'm here, and I'm, you know, almost avoided eye contact at all costs.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: And so you got that level of what it's like to be seen versus not be seen.
17:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
17:48
SPEAKER_00: And then you have, you know, we live our lives now in a way with social media being so ingrained that I'll never forget a friend of mine is like distraught one day, one of my upbeat friends.
18:01
SPEAKER_00: So I'm checking on, I'm like, what's up with you?
18:03
SPEAKER_00: You good?
18:03
SPEAKER_00: And like, man, this post only got 32 likes.
18:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:07
SPEAKER_00: And I and I laughed.
18:09
SPEAKER_00: Like, this, we're talking a decade, this 10 years ago.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: Oh, so even, yeah.
18:13
SPEAKER_00: Even you know what I mean?
18:14
SPEAKER_00: Even early, and I I audibly laughed.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: Because I'm like, you just play like, and they they weren't laughing with me.
18:21
SPEAKER_00: And so I'm looking at them like, oh snap, you for real.
18:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:24
SPEAKER_00: It was like, yeah, I thought this post was a banger.
18:27
SPEAKER_00: I thought this was gonna, you know, get however many.
18:30
SPEAKER_00: And so it it made me think, you know, back then, like, wow, you know, we're in a space where being seeming something different.
18:38
SPEAKER_00: Because what if 37 people came up to you right now and was like, I love that shirt, or like you look, you look great today.
18:44
SPEAKER_00: Your hair is, you know, you will spaz.
18:46
SPEAKER_00: Like you would actually be overwhelmed.
18:48
SPEAKER_00: You would be like, This, you know.
18:49
SPEAKER_01: It'd be the best day you've ever had.
18:51
SPEAKER_00: It would be the best day of your year by far.
18:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
18:54
SPEAKER_00: And so now we're in a space where being seen online and being really seen are kind of just opposed right now.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: So kind of speak to that at in your own experience, whether it's you personally or like when you work with clients, what is it like, you know, building the space to be seen digitally?
19:13
SPEAKER_00: And and what's the I guess the rub between like what we really desire in being seen and and some and experiencing some of that on social media?
19:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, does that make sense?
19:22
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: That's a big question.
19:23
SPEAKER_00: So no present.
19:25
SPEAKER_01: No present.
19:26
SPEAKER_00: Let me think.
19:27
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
19:28
SPEAKER_01: So I think on one hand, like, and I understand I say this as a business owner, but I think part of it is that like this extractive capitalistic system that we have built and exist in in specifically and uniquely in the United States, the entire point is to use up resources, right?
19:54
SPEAKER_01: And and that includes people.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: Like if you if you look at how many, especially now, right?
20:00
SPEAKER_01: Like so many of like the deepest frustrations of being a person is that you feel used, right?
20:07
SPEAKER_01: You feel used by you're you're giving all of your time to your job and you don't have enough money to like pay for your medical care, right?
20:15
SPEAKER_01: Or like all of your relationships are transactional, of I knowing you might be a benefit to me, or there's something we can give, right?
20:26
SPEAKER_01: Like, I think we lost this like understanding and like learning of reciprocity, of I just understand, like I'm a better person by knowing you.
20:39
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter what you do or don't do for me.
20:41
SPEAKER_01: Our existence and community is going to build each other up.
20:44
SPEAKER_01: And when you need something, I'm there.
20:46
SPEAKER_01: And when I need something, you're there, but it's not kept track of, right?
20:50
SPEAKER_01: All of these different things.
20:51
SPEAKER_01: And so I think that just in our personal life, we don't have a lot of ways to just build like genuine to look someone in the eyes and it not be like, oh my gosh, what are they gonna need from me?
21:03
SPEAKER_01: Right.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: That it's looking someone in the eyes and it's just smiling back, and then maybe you have a small talk conversation or maybe not, but we're all just acknowledging we exist here together.
21:12
SPEAKER_01: So I think we've lost like that foundation in our real lives, which then puts this like immense amount of weight on the digital life and the digital experience.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: So I think it is tied of like having to break down your internalized capitalism of what is this, what it like, what are these transactions all around me?
21:35
SPEAKER_01: And really just viewing yourself as someone who's worthy of existing and moving through this life inside of a community, and that the people around you are the same.
21:45
SPEAKER_01: And then so then on the other side, in like the digital world, I think the first thing is just like this base level understanding that if you want to talk about visibility practice on the internet, the most Shine and true way to be seen online is to just be consistent.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: Right.
22:05
SPEAKER_01: That and also understanding that that consistency isn't just like showing up on the same day every week or whatever, but consistent in what you're giving to people so that they can get to know you.
22:20
SPEAKER_01: And I always have a conversation around there's a difference between a full-time content creator and a business owner who needs to make content, right?
22:31
SPEAKER_01: So, or an or an artist or whatever it is, a brand that needs to make content.
22:35
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
22:36
SPEAKER_01: Those are different.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: So if you're a full-time content creator, your currency is truly attention, right?
22:41
SPEAKER_01: How many eyes can you get so that you can then pass that on to the brands you want to do advertising deals with, things like that?
22:49
SPEAKER_01: And that's a business model all in its own, but that's not really like what my client base is.
22:55
SPEAKER_01: They're in that second camp of I'm building something.
23:00
SPEAKER_01: And because we live in 2026, if it wants to be seen, it needs to be on the internet, right?
23:07
SPEAKER_01: And I think that we can view that as a necessary evil, yes, or we can view it as a tool at our own disposal.
23:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:16
SPEAKER_01: Right.
23:16
SPEAKER_01: Like I think that there was a TikTok that was kind of going around this week where I believe she was a musician and she was like, I'm so tired of having to show up and like make content every day in order to get my music to be heard.
23:33
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Yeah, but on the flip side, like you're putting your music out for millions of people.
23:39
SPEAKER_01: Like imagine, like you're Kirk Cobain, right?
23:43
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, hey, if you just put your stuff on TikTok, like thousands of people are gonna know you.
23:48
SPEAKER_01: Like, you're not having to sneak into shows and hand people a disc and like try to like find the right people and play this like crazy long game.
23:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of amazing in its own right.
24:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:02
SPEAKER_01: But the trick is that you have to build something for somebody to connect to because that's what we're actually wanting out of this desperation, out of this lack that a lot of us feel in our own lives of community and relationships, that's why we're addicted to scrolling, right?
24:18
SPEAKER_01: Like, yes, we want the dopamine hit, but also like we want to feel like we're surrounded by people who give me chills.
24:25
SPEAKER_01: Like we we want to feel surrounded by people.
24:28
SPEAKER_01: And the easiest way to do that is with our little rectangles in our hands, right?
24:31
SPEAKER_01: And so I think that there's this power of if you show up as a real person, you might only get 32 likes on your post.
24:42
SPEAKER_01: But those are 32 people who are gonna keep coming back, right?
24:45
SPEAKER_01: Those are 32 people who have bought into the thing that you're building or the version of you, like the safe version of you, the authentic still version of you, that you're willing to put on the internet, of I I see myself in them, or I see, or I just love what they do, I love their perspective.
25:06
SPEAKER_01: You're building a community.
25:08
SPEAKER_01: And if you're in that category of people who have something that they're building, whether it's art or business or something else, and like you would, and you build 32 people who have followed you for years, so that the minute you put out an EP or a project to be watched, or they're all ready to hit to support you, yeah.
25:32
SPEAKER_01: Like that is so beautiful because those are people who would have never found you.
25:37
SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of times, you know, I I often have like fluctuated back and forth of this of like sometimes the the physical place you live might not be full of your people.
25:48
SPEAKER_01: And so instead of you having to figure out how to and where to move, you can just put it on the internet and you can find your people.
25:54
SPEAKER_01: Like you can build genuine relationships on the internet.
25:57
SPEAKER_01: You just have to decide that that's your goal and understand like by making this choice, it might be slower, but it will be more fulfilling, it will be more sustainable, and it will be more impactful for the thing that I'm trying to build.
26:13
SPEAKER_01: Um there was there were like these two kinds of or like three examples that were really fascinating to watch.
26:21
SPEAKER_01: One of the first ones, I don't know, Time is Weird.
26:24
SPEAKER_01: I think it was before the pandemic.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: There was an influencer who she had like a catchphrase that she wanted to put on merch, and she had millions of followers.
26:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, but she had built a content creation brand, right?
26:37
SPEAKER_01: Where everyone was used to just massive levels of access for free.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: And she couldn't hit the like dropship minimum to get merch with her thing with her catchphrase on it.
26:48
SPEAKER_01: And dropship orders aren't crazy large.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: And it was just like, oh, because you've trained them to just have access to you for free, right?
26:56
SPEAKER_01: Same thing I saw.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, I saw like a short uh two two different content creators that between them had hundreds of millions of followers.
27:05
SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness.
27:06
SPEAKER_01: Created a short film, and short films are very expensive, even if you're doing them cheap, they're very expensive.
27:12
SPEAKER_01: And they put it behind like a$10 paywall, and people were offended.
27:16
SPEAKER_01: And so I think I'm like, oh, it's because you were trying to like switch your audience really quickly.
27:20
SPEAKER_01: And so I think if you go in of like, I'm just here to build a community of support and I will support them back because I know who they are, their faces, like at least their profile picture, like it is again that reciprocity can be built in on the internet.
27:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:35
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's how we build something that feels good enough to do forever, right?
27:41
SPEAKER_01: Like, my goal, my hope is to see as many people who want to build something for themselves do it for as long as they want, instead of getting burnt out and feeling like it's pointless and they should move on to something else.
27:55
SPEAKER_01: And so I think like just having that intention either from the beginning or deciding today that you're gonna like be okay of like, I've made this decision that I don't need 3,000 likes or views or 30,000 or whatever.
28:11
SPEAKER_01: I just need 32.
28:12
SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna treat those 32 like the most important people in the room because they saw my stuff and they liked it.
28:18
SPEAKER_01: And they gave me, you know, they gave me a minute, two minutes of the most valuable resource they have, which is their time.
28:27
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
28:28
SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna be so grateful for that.
28:29
SPEAKER_01: It's the kind of like a metaphor of the the people on stage and a Broadway show are are projecting and acting to give the person in the cheapest seats the exact same experience, right?
28:43
SPEAKER_01: The exact same show and story as the people in the expensive boxes.
28:49
SPEAKER_01: And I think that that mentality is important if you're showing up to create on the internet is like the even if it's just like your best friend who's consistently liking the liking your stuff, you value that and you continue to give them quality, whatever that means, whatever that looks like for you, quality content full of human spirit.
29:13
SPEAKER_01: And like I just don't think you can go wrong with that, even if it's maybe a slower route than trying to go viral or whatever the goal you might be tempted to follow is.
29:26
SPEAKER_00: Zoom in on my face again.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: Jessica, this is like I feel like I'm rambling.
29:33
SPEAKER_00: No, you are, and this is what we this is good, it's good information.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: And it's it's you know, here's the thing, Jessica.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: Now there's a lot of noise.
29:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right?
29:47
SPEAKER_00: It's a lot of noise.
29:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: Today there's gonna be hundreds of billions of shorts uploaded on social media.
29:55
SPEAKER_00: Billions today.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: And it's so hard to weed through all of this, right?
30:01
SPEAKER_00: It's so hard to find something substantial.
30:04
SPEAKER_00: And like you said, time is the most valuable commodity we have.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: Not money, not, you know, it's time.
30:09
SPEAKER_00: Because you can't get it back.
30:10
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
30:11
SPEAKER_00: You know, and so when you sit down next to somebody like yourself who has experience and has perspective and something to say, it's very, very, very rich.
30:19
SPEAKER_00: And I'm just like, I'm taking it all in.
30:21
SPEAKER_00: So I appreciate it.
30:22
SPEAKER_00: No, yeah, I appreciate it.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: It it brings me to a point now, you know, where you talk about these actual people and building real community.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: And that's something that's become increasingly more important for me just as a creative and as a human being.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: Like, we were not designed to exist in isolation.
30:42
SPEAKER_00: As a matter of fact, still in in certain countries around the world, like that's a way to punish people to insanity.
30:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:49
SPEAKER_00: It's to isolate them.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know what I mean?
30:51
SPEAKER_00: Like, and so is it's literally counterintuitive to how we are designed to exist and thrive.
30:57
SPEAKER_00: And so I agree with you.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: You know, I did a uh uh exercise not too long ago myself where I posted something and I was like, man, sometimes social media can be weird for me.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm navigating what it looks like to show up and be consistent, and sometimes I don't want to do it, but I feel like it's some of y'all out here.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: I just posted something and people were like, Yes, I'm out of here.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm watching your stuff from where I am here, and like, you know, I've been following along for this long and I support you.
31:21
SPEAKER_00: And by no means was it for me like a pander for attention.
31:26
SPEAKER_00: It was it was me just being vulnerable in that moment and saying, like, I want to share some stuff, but I'm just figuring out what that looks like.
31:32
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
31:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:33
SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I know there are people out there that care, and people, and like I said, I was surprised to see, you know, the whether it was 10 people, whether it was five people, whether it was a hundred.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: Like, to your point, you can build these relationships and these connections in a genuine way if you know what that goal is and if you commit to kind of showing up.
31:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
31:52
SPEAKER_01: And I do think there also has to be the slightly like speaking to entrepreneurs or creatives, people trying to build something for themselves.
32:00
SPEAKER_01: There also is like this small level of like delusion that we all have, right?
32:04
SPEAKER_01: Of like whatever it, whatever it is that we that we're thinking of, just the fact that we're like, yeah, I can do it, yeah, is a small level of delusion.
32:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, facts.
32:12
SPEAKER_01: And so in that point, like there also has to be this commitment that like the thing and this kind of that drop of delusion of whatever I'm building is worth it, whether 10 people like it or not.
32:23
SPEAKER_01: Right?
32:23
SPEAKER_01: Like, especially thinking about like you and your like art, right?
32:27
SPEAKER_01: Like putting your music out, it's because it needs to come out of you.
32:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:30
SPEAKER_01: It's not because it needs to find 500 or 5,000 or 5 million fans.
32:34
SPEAKER_01: It's because it's something intrinsically inside that needs to come out.
32:39
SPEAKER_01: And so the the platform might be the internet, but it's not a performance for the internet, right?
32:44
SPEAKER_01: And so I think that having that like having that kind of perspective, even if it is just hey, like, do we all feel this exact same way?
32:56
SPEAKER_01: Right?
32:56
SPEAKER_01: Like whatever you're putting out doesn't have to just be for the people who are gonna be finding, who are gonna find it.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: It can also just be for you.
33:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:04
SPEAKER_01: Because the human experience is that way.
33:06
SPEAKER_01: That whenever you do put something out that is just for you, there's gonna be other people who are finally like, I have been waiting for someone to say this, or I've been waiting for someone to do this, right?
33:17
SPEAKER_01: Like people are hungry when we're scrolling.
33:20
SPEAKER_01: And so it doesn't have to be catered to them, but it will find the right people if it's of a genuine, like human spirit.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: I heard someone say, the more specific I am in addressing very, very, very personal things and feelings and calling it to a T, the more universal it is.
33:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
33:41
SPEAKER_00: And it shook me because I think we spend so much time trying to dress things up and trying to make our messy kind of pretty and relatable, but he's like, nah, like the more you can call it exactly what it is and nail it down even more, like you're saying, the more that somebody sees that and it's like, man, I thought I was the only one.
33:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:59
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was literally the hashtag for an incredibly important social media movement of me too, right?
34:05
SPEAKER_01: Because I think that's one of the most powerful like thought processes in our lives is oh my gosh, me too.
34:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:15
SPEAKER_01: I'm not alone, I'm not crazy, I'm not whatever.
34:18
SPEAKER_01: Like that point of like there's somebody else who gets it, who has lived it, or whatever.
34:25
SPEAKER_01: And I think that, you know, I never want to co-opt an important phrase now that's part of that movement, but that idea is what you're talking about.
34:34
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
34:35
SPEAKER_01: And is what is so incredibly powerful in making the people who come across your content or making you as you come across content or whatever, like feel like this life is just a little bit easier to live, which is an incredibly powerful, powerful thing to do, whether it increases profit margin or not, like that is a that's almost like a legacy type build, right?
34:59
SPEAKER_01: Where it's that whatever you've put out has made someone else feel like their life is a little lighter because they're not alone.
35:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:08
SPEAKER_01: And like you can't put any level of like ROI.
35:12
SPEAKER_00: Are you familiar with experience?
35:14
SPEAKER_00: Are you familiar with FKJ Twigs?
35:16
SPEAKER_01: A little bit, yeah.
35:17
SPEAKER_00: Artist center.
35:19
SPEAKER_00: She said culture's not quantifiable.
35:22
SPEAKER_00: And so you have no way of knowing who was inspired to make a film based off watching your film, or what artist, you know, is gonna start writing, or what, you know, elderly person is now gonna try to write lyrics because they heard some like there's no way of knowing who you actually impact.
35:40
SPEAKER_00: And in a world that's dominated by metrics, I think we sometimes lose sight of the fact that, you know, I love what you said, Jessica.
35:47
SPEAKER_00: It's like we get to create, we get to share things.
35:50
SPEAKER_00: And and cool, like if it hits and you know, and and it and it goes over well.
35:54
SPEAKER_00: And I think too, the other extreme is if you need this to make money, or if you do need this to be successful and you do need a ROI, I think that's okay too.
36:03
SPEAKER_00: But as long as it's grounded in, like, no, I I get to share my experience and I have the opportunity to connect with other people on a soul human level is just like it's a very sobering reminder, you know, a very humbling um reminder.
36:20
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you got young Jessica out there, yeah, or young Bang out there, or you know, the person that's 40 years old who really loves painting, yeah, that want to put themselves out there that's 60 years old that wants to start singing.
36:34
SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you say to that person that's just beginning where you were in 2012 and everybody was doing the crazy stuff on YouTube, and you was just like that person is here now in 2026.
36:45
SPEAKER_00: They want to put themselves out there, but they're afraid, don't know how.
36:48
SPEAKER_00: What are some of your guiding principles or some of your, hey, here's what I would suggest for whatever it is that you want to do?
36:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, a couple, a few come to mind.
36:59
SPEAKER_01: I think the first one is before you do anything, decide like your safety boundaries, like neurological safety, right?
37:07
SPEAKER_01: What are things you are or are not willing to put in front of potentially billions of strangers?
37:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, so that it's sort of that like hierarchy of needs, right?
37:17
SPEAKER_01: Like you know you're safe.
37:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so you can do it.
37:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think that's just a really good mindset to get into of like so that you can get to a point where your brain is processing what will I miss out on if I don't post this, versus oh my gosh, what happens if I post this?
37:38
SPEAKER_01: So I think just having that thing of like I've created a safe space, both maybe physically and neurologically, for me to hit record.
37:45
SPEAKER_02: Love it.
37:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, exactly.
37:48
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
37:49
SPEAKER_01: Know your limits, know what you are or are not willing to put on the internet.
37:52
SPEAKER_01: That's really important so that your brain can just be ready.
37:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, a lot of people talk about how like they pretend like they're FaceTiming on their phones.
38:00
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's kind of the same thing of I'm not thinking about uploading this, I'm just talking to friends.
38:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I think that there's also like the kind of philosophical of like just do it.
38:18
SPEAKER_01: None of this actually matters, right?
38:20
SPEAKER_01: Like, yes, your dream, your dream matters so, so, so much.
38:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:25
SPEAKER_01: Your goals, the money you would like to make, all of those things, like whatever you have for you, why you're curious about maybe posting, all of that matters so much.
38:35
SPEAKER_01: But this is a game.
38:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
38:36
SPEAKER_01: And we didn't make the rules.
38:38
SPEAKER_01: A bunch of billionaires who only see you as a tool to make shareholders more money made the rules.
38:44
SPEAKER_01: So congrats, like you're free, right?
38:47
SPEAKER_01: Like this is you can play by whatever rules you want because you were like because the systems were set up, the programs, the algorithms, all of those things were set up with using you as a as a means of financial gain as a resource.
39:07
SPEAKER_01: And so you might as well just take your own power back and just post and play.
39:12
SPEAKER_01: The internet forgets really easily.
39:14
SPEAKER_01: So if you put a piece of content and all of a sudden you give yourself the ick, you can delete it and no one, like yeah, with with the nuance of like not whenever you're being like deeply problematic because screenshots do lists.
39:25
SPEAKER_01: But like if you're just trying stuff, just try stuff.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: Some of it, like, try it on your Instagram stories where it's gonna delete itself in 24 hours anyway, before you put things on your feed.
39:35
SPEAKER_01: Like start to view this as a world that you are building from the ground up.
39:41
SPEAKER_01: And that like almost in the like idea, a lot of what I think about is like the whose line is it anyway?
39:50
SPEAKER_01: Rule, like, welcome to this game.
39:52
SPEAKER_01: The rules are made up and the points don't matter.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: So, like, do whatever feels good.
39:56
SPEAKER_01: Uh, that's a case.
39:59
SPEAKER_01: All millennials know what I'm talking about.
40:02
SPEAKER_01: But like, that is kind of the kind of how this goes.
40:04
SPEAKER_01: Because even whenever you look at people who have found crazy success as content creators or whatever, typically it's because by the time they broke through, they were doing something so unique, yeah, and so uniquely them.
40:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it played with the rules and the boundaries of what we thought content was gonna be.
40:22
SPEAKER_01: So then it became the trend.
40:24
SPEAKER_01: But like there's always, and there's always corners of the internet who are gonna love whatever you do.
40:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:29
SPEAKER_01: And so I think that that like just post, like just do it is so important.
40:36
SPEAKER_00: I think in the other, yes, I think with time and practice and curation, you get to be who you are.
40:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's such a a healthy reminder.
40:44
SPEAKER_00: And then I think you get the other extreme, like it's people that was just goofing off that were exactly like you said, that was just playing and something hit.
40:52
SPEAKER_00: Like, I think about the girl on TikTok who did the Dr.
40:54
SPEAKER_00: Pepper jingle.
40:55
SPEAKER_00: Did you see her?
40:56
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I I obviously never followed her and never knew, but she just Dr.
41:00
SPEAKER_00: Pepper, be and like all of a sudden, Dr.
41:03
SPEAKER_00: Pepper's like, we need this.
41:05
SPEAKER_01: No, I'm obsessed right now with the Staples baddie.
41:07
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you've seen her.
41:09
SPEAKER_01: So she is literally just works at Staples.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: But she is doing so much for that company, and she's her own personal, she was just like sitting there, I guess bored at work, and was just like, Did you know that I can do this for you?
41:22
SPEAKER_01: Like, she works in the staples print department.
41:24
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
41:25
SPEAKER_01: But she has this really alternative style, like, is very gen Z.
41:29
SPEAKER_01: And like people are obsessed, and they're like all the comments are like, I didn't know I'm going to Staples right now.
41:36
SPEAKER_01: So even for this like massive legacy brand, she is doing more work than anybody else.
41:41
SPEAKER_01: Literally, just because she was bored of work and was like, let me just talk about it.
41:46
SPEAKER_01: Like, I I genuinely love working at Staples, but I'm bored.
41:50
SPEAKER_01: So did you know I could do this for you?
41:51
SPEAKER_01: And like, but she put her own, her own personality as like all there is in there.
41:57
SPEAKER_01: And I think I was thinking about it a lot of like her stuff just blew up because people are so we're so attracted to this deeply genuine person.
42:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:12
SPEAKER_01: Just talking about their job.
42:13
SPEAKER_01: And like, cool, you're learning more about staples, but like that's not the point.
42:17
SPEAKER_01: No jumping out and playing and literally she's sitting behind the her, the like printer desk.
42:22
SPEAKER_01: And I think that like, yeah, sometimes it's just an accident because you're goofing off and you make a Dr.
42:29
SPEAKER_01: Pepper jingle, or you have some Gen Z presentation of what staples can do, or you like just do something really ridiculous.
42:39
SPEAKER_01: And I think that, yeah, that sometimes and I think that, but you don't even get to that point of goofing off to make the Dr.
42:46
SPEAKER_01: Pepper jingle if you're so worried about what to post and how to post and how to make it.
42:52
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
42:52
SPEAKER_01: And I think like, especially now that like TikTok has like the it prioritizes people with like a shopping link, everyone's trying to sell you a thousand pieces of gear.
43:03
SPEAKER_01: But like if you have a phone and you have decent light, like a window, you can start posting.
43:09
SPEAKER_01: If you want to elevate it, amazing.
43:11
SPEAKER_01: If you want to, you know, offboard it to other people eventually, awesome.
43:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but like when you're just trying to start and you're very aware of maybe some like financial barriers to that.
43:24
SPEAKER_01: You have a phone and all of our iPhones have better specs than the camera that I went through film school with.
43:31
SPEAKER_01: Like actually have better specs than the 2007 to 2011 canons that I was on.
43:39
SPEAKER_01: And so you have a really powerful creation tool that allows you to be nimble and allows you to be off the cuff and allows you to be authentic.
43:48
SPEAKER_01: And then again, if you decide to elevate it or however you want, that's great too.
43:54
SPEAKER_01: But like if you're just a person who's feeling the need to create, knows The internet is a place to put what you're making.
44:02
SPEAKER_01: Just want to goof off and find some community.
44:05
SPEAKER_01: Like how how you make it doesn't super matter at this point.
44:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, because you just need to put the practice in of um, it's almost like the actors who are obsessed with the audition process, right?
44:21
SPEAKER_01: Just put it out, see what happens, yeah, and then do it again.
44:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
44:25
SPEAKER_01: And then see how people respond and then do it again.
44:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
44:27
SPEAKER_01: And then so I think that like making it a playful experiment can help with that.
44:36
SPEAKER_01: The your your dream is not on the line whether your post goes viral or not.
44:43
SPEAKER_01: Right.
44:44
SPEAKER_01: Your dream will find ways to succeed because again, consistency is where the reward is.
44:53
SPEAKER_01: Consistency and practice, that's where you will see some sort of return on your effort.
45:01
SPEAKER_01: But first you just have to start.
45:03
SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's like creating a safe space and understanding this is a place to experiment and play will help you just start.
45:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, and if you find 30 million people who resonate with you, amazing.
45:15
SPEAKER_01: If you find 30 people who resonate with you, that's beautiful.
45:20
SPEAKER_01: That those are 30 actual humans that love you.
45:24
SPEAKER_01: And like that's worth it.
45:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
45:27
SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, I think that that's those would be kind of the beginning thought.
45:33
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
45:34
SPEAKER_00: What are you what are you what are you saying?
45:35
SPEAKER_00: This is your biggest stay away from this or don't do this, or this is not a productive thought pattern.
45:41
SPEAKER_00: What's the what's the big for you?
45:43
SPEAKER_00: Like, keep this in mind, red flag right here.
45:47
SPEAKER_01: So, first, I think having that conversation with yourself, am I going to be a content creator or am I gonna be a somebody building something who has to make content?
45:57
SPEAKER_01: Do you figure that out first?
45:59
SPEAKER_01: Because if you like, if if you're in that second category and you try to be a content creator, it will be so unhealthy for you.
46:06
SPEAKER_01: You will not like it, right?
46:07
SPEAKER_01: Like, so I think that kind of staying away from that.
46:11
SPEAKER_01: If you're if you're over in the camp that's trying to build something, stay away from the I must be a full-time content creator thought process.
46:21
SPEAKER_00: How do you know how do you know the difference?
46:22
SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you know?
46:24
SPEAKER_00: Take me, for example.
46:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
46:25
SPEAKER_00: How do I know if I'm a content creator or if I need to be or if I'm an artist who needs to create content to point, like, how do you know?
46:33
SPEAKER_01: I think if what you're wanting to build requires an investment from your audience, financial sure, but also like deeper levels of time, commitment, or like deeper levels of support.
46:45
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
46:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, where you know you'll be pulling a bigger lever than like and share, then that and like there is like a in-between.
46:54
SPEAKER_01: But I think if you go in with the mindset of like, I am a content creator, there's a ton of unhealthy pressure of my entire life must be on the internet.
47:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
47:04
SPEAKER_01: I live and die by the opinions of people in my comment sections, right?
47:07
SPEAKER_01: Like all of those things.
47:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, which leads me to like the red flag of even if you're as authentic and vulnerable and human as you want to be on the internet, it is not real life.
47:20
SPEAKER_01: And so avoid it becoming your world.
47:24
SPEAKER_01: Avoid it becoming to where you do, like these people who might see 90 seconds of your life at a time, max.
47:32
SPEAKER_00: Like 1% of your whole existence.
47:34
SPEAKER_01: Yes, whatever they're saying does not matter, right?
47:38
SPEAKER_01: Find the people in your actual life who are the ones who will validate your like existence as a woman, not people on the internet.
47:47
SPEAKER_01: I think that's the biggest red flag because the internet's opinion changes every other day, right?
47:53
SPEAKER_01: Like you'll see people, you'll see people online that are like, hey, can you like if you're seeing this and you're like kind of with me, can you engage?
48:01
SPEAKER_01: Because I found myself on the wrong side of the internet, that the algorithm will just take them into enemy territory where they're set up for like dangerous comments and things like that.
48:10
SPEAKER_01: And I think that um because as fun and engaging and amazing as an internet like community or audience can be, there's also a lot of terrible people behind the anonymity of a keyboard.
48:26
SPEAKER_01: And if you put your self-worth in there, it will be so dangerous for you.
48:31
SPEAKER_01: And nothing you do will feel worth it.
48:34
SPEAKER_01: And I again, like my goal, my hope, my dream is to see everybody do this for as long as they want to do it.
48:41
SPEAKER_01: And so if you have people who are exist in real life who are the ones that are that are giving you context for your worth and your value and why you're on this planet and all of that, that helps you avoid that like trap of literally the world's opinion potentially.
49:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, because I think that that's one of the biggest things is to let the entire world define you can be so dangerous.
49:10
SPEAKER_01: So finding your intrinsic value and then having a world outside of it, I think will like help survive, help you survive, right?
49:22
SPEAKER_01: Um so I think like that's the biggest red flag is um that mentality of letting letting this become real in a in a way that impacts how you think about yourself.
49:38
SPEAKER_01: Um and yeah, I think and then just along the lines, when the if you do allow that, then like you will begin to change, right?
49:51
SPEAKER_01: Your values will switch or muddy up or things like that.
49:55
SPEAKER_01: I think that avoiding the mentality of I must be palatable to everybody so that I can get the broad up kind of what you're talking about.
50:08
SPEAKER_01: That's that's specific.
50:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
50:09
SPEAKER_01: That involves everything, right?
50:11
SPEAKER_01: Like don't be so afraid to become unpalatable to a group of people that you like stop doing what's right, or that you lose touch with your values, that you're not standing up for people when they need to be stood up for, that you're not like presenting the things that are important to you.
50:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, that again are part of preserving your humanity.
50:38
SPEAKER_01: If you sacrifice those to borrow from Hamilton, the play, right?
50:42
SPEAKER_01: Like if you stand for everything, then you stand for nothing, right?
50:45
SPEAKER_01: Or if you're like those kind of like uh and I think that if you're if you if you stand for everything, you stand for nothing.
50:57
SPEAKER_01: And I think it's really easy in the world, in the internet world to pressure you to do that.
51:05
SPEAKER_01: To well, if I want millions of people to love me, then I must become palatable to and relatable and easy to perceive for millions of people.
51:18
SPEAKER_01: And again, that chips away at your actual humanity and that will lead to nothing but um a unsustainable internet presence, but also like a life that feels like unmoored to who you used to be.
51:39
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, you think you see it all the time in like celebrity culture, right?
51:42
SPEAKER_01: Where you watch people kind of lose themselves and it becomes detrimental.
51:47
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
51:48
SPEAKER_01: And so I think that like that just the red flag of thinking any of this means anything about who you are as a person, um, can make or break your internet success, sure, but also your like quality of life as a real living, breathing human person outside of somebody's cell phone.
52:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
52:09
SPEAKER_01: Which is what we need you to be, more importantly than someone on the internet.
52:14
SPEAKER_01: We need you to be around and healthy and loved in your real physical life.
52:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
52:22
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
52:26
SPEAKER_00: I feel like I need to go for a walk or something.
52:28
SPEAKER_00: I need to, I need to drink some water and meditate or stuff.
52:32
SPEAKER_00: This was fire.
52:33
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm just like, every time we dialogue, I'm just always so it feels like a refreshing, you know, perspective shift every single time.
52:44
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
52:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, what do you got to shout out?
52:47
SPEAKER_00: What's coming up for you?
52:48
SPEAKER_00: Where can people follow you?
52:49
SPEAKER_00: How can people support you?
52:51
SPEAKER_00: Kind of now's your your time to shine.
52:53
SPEAKER_00: Put it out there.
52:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, if you want to follow me on Instagram, that's where I like to live the most.
52:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, at Jessica Whalen Films.
53:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, I really love to connect with people and like my DMs are always open.
53:05
SPEAKER_01: I love to just talk to people.
53:08
SPEAKER_01: Um and like that's yeah, that's my favorite place to hang out on the internet.
53:13
SPEAKER_01: As far as like what's coming up, this year is just a year where I'm really like focused in on I think who I'm best to serve and how I am best meant to serve through storytelling.
53:28
SPEAKER_01: And then going through the process of allowing myself to carve more time for my own like work that needs to come out of myself.
53:37
SPEAKER_01: I think you can relate.
53:39
SPEAKER_01: Most people can relate, right?
53:41
SPEAKER_01: If you are a creative who also owns or works in the creative world, it's really easy for work to be your only creative outlet.
53:47
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
53:48
SPEAKER_01: And so every few years I have to be like, okay, but what about like what about these things that clients might never pay me for?
53:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
53:56
SPEAKER_01: But I just need to make because they've been in my heart or in my mind for so long.
54:01
SPEAKER_01: So I think that like that's that's kind of where um that's kind of what this year feels like.
54:09
SPEAKER_01: I think this year feels like a really grounded year for me, where kind of like what I was saying, where it's like I've, you know, just like every business, I mean, I've been in business.
54:20
SPEAKER_01: I started my business in 2012.
54:22
SPEAKER_01: And so over what's that math?
54:26
SPEAKER_01: It's 14 years.
54:27
SPEAKER_01: 14 years.
54:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
54:28
SPEAKER_01: So every few years, I feel like I get a little more clear, get a little more grounded.
54:34
SPEAKER_01: The through line has always been the same, but how I present it to the world feels.
54:39
SPEAKER_01: And I think also it's just age as I get into my 30s, right?
54:42
SPEAKER_01: Versus the 22-year-old who's just chasing things.
54:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, I'm really excited about a year of just a year of business that is full of connecting with people in really intentional ways and helping them be seen in really strategic ways that allow them to be humans.
55:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then seeing what else I can create for myself.
55:06
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
55:07
SPEAKER_00: So friends and family, this is Jessica.
55:09
SPEAKER_00: I'm at the beginning of an applause for right now.
55:12
SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean I need a real applause than this one, for real.
55:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, thanks for joining us.
55:18
SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
55:18
SPEAKER_01: This was a this was fun.
55:19
SPEAKER_01: It was weird to like not be behind the camera, but I appreciate you letting me.
55:24
SPEAKER_00: This is great.
55:25
SPEAKER_01: You brought the outfit, like the style, you like the gym, like you look good, like you're good.
55:28
SPEAKER_01: Like, thanks.
55:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, let's do it again sometime.
55:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, sounds great.
55:32
SPEAKER_00: Okay, thank you for joining me.
55:33
SPEAKER_01: Of course.
55:34
SPEAKER_01: See ya.