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Making The Case · Urantia Radio

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Well, some footnotes before we are joined by Ryan McGuire, who
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has written several books about the Urancha book, most notably
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the book I want to discuss, which is called the Making the
0:10
Case for the Urancha Book. But before we begin, there are a
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few items I'd like to share with you.
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First of all, Urantia Book International School is gearing
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up for another semester. Urantia Book Internet school
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enrollment opens September 8th. You can choose from multiple
0:26
topics that interest you, and it is a wonderful way to share and
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learn from fellow readers who are deep in learning about the
0:35
Urantia revelation. For more information on how you
0:38
can join the Internet school, it's free, just go to
0:41
urantiaorg, that's the website and then in the menu bar look
0:45
for the link that says education and then you'll be able to find
0:50
the online school. Secondly, I want to thank the
0:52
folks and there were a lot of folks that responded have
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reached out to me about the new 24/7 live stream of Urantia
1:00
Radio. Unlike a podcast, the stream
1:03
requires no downloading. It is just a real Global Radio
1:07
station with 24 hours a day of Urantia book related content.
1:12
Now in September, I am going to air a special Bill Sadler series
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of lectures he gave to the first Society of the Urantia Book
1:21
readers in the 1960s in Oklahoma.
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Now, thanks to the Urantia Foundation Archives, we can air
1:28
these lectures as they were presented over 80 years ago.
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Now remember that Bill Sadler Junior was one of one of only
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four human beings part of the contact Commission back in the
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early 30s and they had limited conversations with our unseen
1:44
friends. So Bill brings an extra
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perspective to all of this. So look for that on the live
1:50
stream. Go to urantiaradio.org after
1:54
Labor Day and just look for the live stream.
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Click on the menu and you'll be able to listen to the entire
2:00
collection of Bill Sadler lectures from 1961 and 1962.
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And of course, if you want more information on this or anything
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that we talked about, urantiabookradio@gmail.com.
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So my interview with Ryan McGuire, who has achieved a
2:16
major feat, he has authored several books that make for a
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very convincing case on the fact that the Urantia book is a true,
2:25
authentic and credible divine revelation.
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Wait to hear what he has to say. I read the entire book.
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I enjoyed it, but it makes the case for the Urantia book.
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So hang on, Ryan is next and we'll get right to it.
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And by the way, thank you for joining me on the Urantia Radio
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Podcast. How?
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How did you discover the Urantia book and tell us about that
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experience? Because you grew up a Christian.
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Then you you kind of tossed Christianity away and then
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something horrible happened to you.
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Give us, give us that story, will you?
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OK, yeah, well, I was, I was incarcerated when I was 26 years
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old and I, I rediscovered my Christian faith while I was
3:40
locked up, like many people do. And I actually just kind of
3:45
poured myself into that, reading the Bible and memorizing
3:48
scriptures and proselytizing and preaching and things of that
3:53
nature. I actually worked in the Chapel
3:56
as the chaplain's clerk for several years.
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And I was basically just an administrator organizing all the
4:08
different services, the faith-based storm, all the
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different religious events for all the different religions.
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And in doing that, I, I got a pretty solid dose of world
4:26
religions. Pretty much everybody is
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represented. And I, I learned that they're,
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they, they all have a lot of similarities.
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They're all basically they're just looking for higher truth.
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They're all looking for fellowship with one another.
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They're, they're, they're looking for, for meaning and
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purpose in life. And, and so that kind of stuck
4:53
with me and I didn't know exactly how to work that into my
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world view at that time. But Fast forward a few more
5:10
years, about a year before I got out of prison, a guy in my dorm
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asked me if I had ever heard of the Urantia book.
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And I had not, which was surprising to me because I
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worked in the library there for years, also after the clerk job,
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and I knew pretty much everything that was available
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there. But he said he hadn't gotten
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this one from the library. He had found it.
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He had emailed or he had written a letter to somebody and they
5:56
had sent it to him. And I didn't think too much of
5:59
it at that time, but I went to a class that afternoon and
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somebody in that Class A a, a different gentleman who lived in
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a different dorm, who did not know the other guy, asked me if
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I had heard of the Rancho book. So in one day, two people in two
6:21
different environments asked me about this book.
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And so it piques my interest at that point.
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And just so that I don't have to sound ignorant, the next time
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somebody asks me about the book, I I borrowed it and started
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looking at it. And the first thing that struck
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me about the book was the elevated use of the English
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language. I considered myself, like I
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said, to be pretty well read, and I feel comfortable with
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recognizing the voice of most authors, especially human
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authors. This was something very
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different. This had a clearer presentation
7:23
and a more sophisticated model for presenting information.
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And it wasn't. It wasn't something you can just
7:38
skim through. It was something that you had to
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devote your attention to in order to process the
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information. That's what immediately struck
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me about it. That's how I immediately
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recognize that there was something different about this
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book, the use of English language.
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And as I started reading, and I started in Book 4, because of my
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Christian background, I wanted to know about the life of Jesus.
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The next thing that really stood out to me was the incredible
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amount of detail in every single story.
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Creative writers spend years trying to perfect the ability to
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use detail in such a way that it immerses the reader in a
8:54
environment, right? And it takes a lot of training
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and experience to do it effectively and skillfully.
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The amount of detail in this book was an enormous selling
9:11
point for its authenticity. To me, it's it's extremely
9:17
difficult to conjure that type of that level of detail in in a
9:26
story and to do it harmoniously and consistently throughout the
9:35
entire epic. The entire dialogue is again,
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was something I had not encountered before.
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It was, it was on a level all its own.
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And so these two, these two points are really what drew me
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into it. And I, after that I, I, I worked
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my way back. It took me about 3 months to
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read the entire thing. Two, sometimes three papers a
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day. After I finished Book 4, I went
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to three, then two, then one, and I was still taken by the
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work that I wanted to share it with people, right?
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I felt like I had discovered something incredible and I
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immediately wanted to share it with people.
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The problem was, like you said earlier, it kept coming out.
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I hate to say the word nonsense, but it just it came out as a
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crazy story because I couldn't fluidly describe what it was
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about and what was happening in this story without jumping all
11:12
over the place and chasing rabbits and sounding like some
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fanatic. Really.
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Almost like a groupie, you know, like if you know, like you're a,
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a Trekkie or something, you know, you start talking about
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it. No matter how you try to make it
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as simple, it ends up going from really kind of simple, Yo,
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that's kind of cool. And then you start getting into
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the nitty gritty and then it, it, I think it's, it's an
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appropriate feeling to want to share, but the light can be a
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little bit blinding to people who are not familiar with the
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terms or, you know, what do you mean, Marancia?
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What's that? You know, I had my wife.
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It's interesting if when I first met my wife, I said, you need to
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know this about me. Here's the book that I base my
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entire philosophy of life on. And so she read a little bit of
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it and then she went online and started doing research.
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And of course she comes across the great mystery cult and a few
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other critiques of the Urantia book.
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And so the, the, the discussion was, well, how do you know it's
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true? That's always what people say.
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Well, how would, how would you know it's possibly true?
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And I say, well, you know, it makes sense that it's true.
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And it's so wonderfully written. Like you just said, it says
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it's, it's of a level of, of, of I don't know, you know, like a
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somebody with a PhD writing about mitochondrial DNA.
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You know, it's it's above anything that I've ever
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experienced. And they say, well, yeah, great
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novels are written that way, too, Jim.
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I mean, you know, somebody had to come up with Star Wars.
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I mean, somebody could make all that shit up.
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And I'm like, OK, well clearly you know, the Spirit is not
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moving in the direction you know so well.
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What I, what I experienced in my, because I, I've experienced
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everything that you just described with virtually every
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single person that I have tried to reach out to, every,
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everybody that I have tried to share with.
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The arguments that you just said your wife made are the same ones
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that I have encountered, even my own family.
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It's, it's this belief that, well, anybody can come up with a
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story like that. And it that, that boggles my
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mind. And I'm not sure if I'm taking
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for granted my education or if these people are not as well
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read and they don't understand the voice of human authors.
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Because there's a clear distinction between what has
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been written by man, even at a PhD level, at a doctoral level,
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this supersedes it. It's, it's, it's, it's far more
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complex. There's, there's, there's, there
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is no comparison in the complexity.
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And so again, this was frustrating to me.
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And really I, I, on some level I took it personally because it's,
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it feels like an insult to my intelligence when they look at
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me like I'm crazy and ask me, how can I believe something like
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this? So I began working while I was
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in prison on these ideas for these books because I wanted to
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make the material manageable, more accessible to a broader
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audience. And that was, and that was
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something that I saw as a, a means to help people access it
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and process it. Instead of having to read 2000
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pages, I've written books that are, you know, less than 100
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pages each focusing on specific aspects.
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A couple of them are synopsis is breaking down major themes
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within it just generally, and then a couple of them focus on
15:38
specific ideas like world government or world religion.
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And and then of course, the the case for the Urantia book is I
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think the greatest book that I have to offer for this movement.
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It's my defense of every skeptics argument that the the
16:08
book is a hoax, that the the book is the work of some clever
16:15
person's imagination. It's and as you, as you, as you
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said when you read the book, you, you, you agreed with what I
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had written. Yeah, let me read something from
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your book to kind of give the listeners an idea of how you
16:37
tackle the subject matter because I think it's that makes
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the case for your book. Let me read a little bit of what
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Ryan McGuire writes in the case for the Urantia book from paper
16:47
or page 32. He says this authority referring
16:51
to the book, is evident in the way the book handles the
16:54
subjects that are traditionally considered beyond the reach of
16:57
human understanding, such as the nature of God, the organization
17:01
of celestial beings, and the ultimate destiny of human beings
17:06
and the soul. And in these discussions, the
17:09
celestial authors do not present speculative theories or
17:13
philosophical arguments. They offer direct accounts and
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explanations based on their own observations and the experience
17:22
in the higher realms. This distinction is important
17:25
because it shifts the Urantia book from being a work of
17:28
religious or philosophical speculation to a work that
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presents itself as a revelation of factual knowledge from divine
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sources. And the keyword is divine.
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And you make that point, Ryan, throughout the book that it does
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not come across as if a self help book that's offering you a
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theory on how you can be at one at the universe.
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And, and you get that a lot from a lot of books where they go off
17:55
into gobbledygook and they use like, there's this woman, I
17:58
won't mention her name, but she's been around for a while.
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And the longer you listen to people that are of a, what they
18:05
would consider to be of a spiritual nature, as if they've,
18:09
they've tapped into some source that you and I have not yet been
18:13
able to penetrate. And usually when you listen to
18:15
somebody long enough, you can tell whether they're making the,
18:19
making it up or, you know, maybe they're, they're, they have
18:22
their own version of Taoism. And believe me, like you, I've,
18:26
I've, I've looked at all kinds Eckankar Course in Miracles,
18:30
Scientology, I've examined these and I, and I, it doesn't take
18:34
long to find something where you say that doesn't sound right,
18:39
but you don't get that with the Urantia book.
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And I think that's what your case was.
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Exactly what you find in all other spiritual texts is an
18:50
agenda of some of some nature it they they're trying to get
18:57
people to follow their path to salvation based on an exclusive
19:05
experience that only they can offer right.
19:09
And what the Urantia book offers is a universal understanding of
19:18
what religion actually is. It's not, it's not exclusive.
19:23
There's no such thing as a chosen people.
19:26
It it breaks down those barriers and explains from an outside
19:31
perspective that what you're all experiencing is the same desire
19:37
to reach God, to find God, to be with God.
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And the only difference between you is where those religions
19:52
have evolved. It's your personal cultures
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evolving around that God focused desire that has created
20:05
differences among you. But at your core, you're all
20:10
just. You're all following your
20:13
thought adjuster and this that's what makes this book so, so
20:19
unique there. It's not it's not offer.
20:24
It's not a cult in the sense that it offers a single way to
20:29
salvation, right in the, the in the Bible, Jesus has portrayed
20:34
us saying nobody comes to the Father except through me and the
20:40
and Pauline Christianity has ran with this saying that if you do
20:45
not believe in Christ, then you are going to hell.
20:51
So it's a, it's an exclusionary form of religion that Christ
20:57
never intended to be created about him.
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He came to show us that we are all one people.
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There's all only one God. We are all seeking that one God.
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And so that is, that's, that's why I think this work is so
21:22
important. That's why I think the secondary
21:25
works are so important. And I think that's why it's so
21:28
important for a defense to be made that can be understood and
21:37
easily read and makes sense. Yeah, this is kind of the age of
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the second, maybe third generation really.
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We're still, there are still people around who were around
21:48
when the book was being articulated back in the 30s and
21:51
40s, but not many. It's kind of like, you know, the
21:53
World War 2 vets, you know, they're pretty soon there won't
21:56
be any, you know, and now we're in that sort of subsequent
22:00
period of, you know, you might even correlate it with the maybe
22:04
the 1st century after the apostles had passed away.
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And now what they've left behind is, is, you know, so we continue
22:11
the work in our way. But again, you know, compliments
22:15
to you. Now you've written other books.
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And I noticed that you I, I did, I didn't critique it.
22:21
I, I complimented the book on Amazon, but I was left, but I
22:27
was left wanting more. And that was because, you know,
22:30
I know the book. So I was hoping you would go
22:33
more into, you know, the, the details of Jesus's life.
22:37
But I understand because you've written other books that also
22:39
cover this. Was it?
22:41
Was it? How hard was it for you to make
22:44
the case? For the book The Case for the
22:51
Rancher book. Yeah, like how did you, when you
22:53
picked and chose the different, you know, like you're a lawyer
22:58
and and here's your case you had, you had probably started
23:01
with a whole bunch of stuff that you wanted to cover and then you
23:04
kind of had to narrow it down. Actually, though, I just, I
23:07
started with the things that were most most glaringly obvious
23:11
to me, the things that really stood out to me, that jumped out
23:16
at me. The the use of the English
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language, the complexity of subject matter, the incredible
23:25
amount of detail. I move on to the, the, the, the
23:32
financial incentive that has been completely overlooked.
23:37
Well, there. Isn't.
23:38
There. There the fact that there isn't.
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Didn't right, which is the number one reason for any hoax
23:48
to be created and put out into the world is to create a
23:54
following that people put their money into Scientology being a
23:58
perfect example. But any religion, you know, the
24:02
Catholic Church, whatever you want is it's, it's a, it's a
24:06
money game. And the Rancho book is not
24:10
there's there's no, there's no ulterior motive that would
24:15
indicate a a hoax of that nature.
24:21
Yeah, yeah. I again, you know, and clarify,
24:25
you know, here's one. I, I would probably in the time
24:28
that we've had since I finished reading the book and I knew you
24:31
were coming on, Ryan and I wanted to have this
24:33
conversation. And I, I said to myself, you
24:37
know, Meredith Sprunger, if I'm sure you may have heard the
24:41
name, but he said, you know, if, if the universe isn't like it's
24:46
described in the Urantia book, then what the hell is it?
24:51
What else could it be other than an organized, organized
24:54
structure with an eternal, I mean, at its core, we are in the
25:00
universe building mode and we are all participating in that
25:05
along with the, you know, what else could it be?
25:10
It is the question I would pose to anybody.
25:13
Well, and. Our our scientists and our
25:16
astronomers would tell you that it's it's random and we're just
25:21
floating through space haphazardly, no rhyme, no
25:27
reason, just being shot out into the dark.
25:31
And that is not a very comforting idea to me, right?
25:37
That that that tells me that there's there's no order,
25:41
there's no no protection, anything could happen at any
25:45
moment. There's no stability, no
25:49
structure out there whatsoever. And that's not the case.
25:52
The Urantia book makes it very clear that this is a divinely
25:57
ordered, well structured universe.
26:04
And we are floating along exactly as we're supposed to on
26:10
a preordained course. There is a divine administration
26:17
over us. Everything is perfectly fine,
26:21
right? We've never been struck by an
26:23
asteroid. The chances of that happening
26:27
are next to nothing. All of these fears that we have
26:30
that come from our teachings about US cosmology and
26:36
astronomy, they're based on these false ideas that, you
26:46
know, the the Urantia book really clears up and makes
26:51
perfect sense of. So I would agree with what she's
26:54
saying is Long story short, what I'm trying to.
26:57
Yeah, there's a great comic out right now.
27:00
He's kind of popular. His name is Peter Holmes and
27:03
much of his stick or whatever is based on, you know, this idea
27:08
that there are people who who believe in nothing.
27:11
And so he he would present to somebody.
27:13
So you believe in that nothing created you and then when you
27:17
die, you go back to your creator.
27:22
It's fairly clever. It's a it's a good.
27:23
It's, you know, either in this sort of plays to the point which
27:27
is either the universe is an organized structure or it isn't.
27:31
And by all appearances, it seems to have physical laws that it
27:35
follows gravity. There's, you know, and so again,
27:40
tying this into the Urantia book and your book, it, it makes a
27:43
definitive case. And you'd, you're correct in
27:46
going after the objections and Sadler, Sadler, William Sadler
27:51
in his 64 original concepts essay, he also addresses all the
27:57
early criticisms of the Urantia book.
28:00
Well, it's too esoteric. It's Gnostic.
28:03
It, it, it strips us of the atonement doctrine, which is
28:07
anti Christian. And he debates each one of these
28:10
issues in a, in a cogent way. And so I guess we're in the
28:15
process of elimination. You know, people come up with
28:18
objections. And at the end of the day, it's
28:19
like, well, why are you? You know, one must ask
28:21
themselves, why do you push back against the idea that the
28:26
universe is an organized place? What's the fear in believing
28:32
that there is a purpose to everything So.
28:36
It's not so much the fear of that.
28:38
It's the it's the atonement doctrine.
28:41
It's the salvation aspect. It's the fear of what they've
28:46
been taught to fear from generations gone by, right?
28:51
Their parents taught them, their parents taught them, their
28:54
parents taught them. So it must be true that if you
28:57
do not believe that, for example, Christianity that Jesus
29:01
Christ died for your sins, then you're going to hell.
29:04
And that's a deep seated fear that most people, even
29:09
intelligent people who logically understand that that doesn't
29:15
make sense, are afraid to let go of it because it's what's so
29:19
deeply rooted in the culture. So that that's going to take a
29:25
lot of time to, to overcome, unfortunately.
29:30
But think more that the world becomes interconnected and the
29:35
more that people see people of other faiths and realize that
29:41
they're like we are, they love God, they want to fellowship
29:46
with humanity. There's really no difference
29:48
here. Am I going to say that this
29:50
person is going to hell because they didn't believe that Jesus
29:54
Christ died for their sins? You find this more and more that
29:57
people are accepting that it's not, it's not logical.
30:03
It doesn't, it's not, it's not a reasonable conclusion to, to to
30:06
make. And it's it's it's, it's based
30:09
in antiquated ideas. Well, you know, and I know we
30:14
both know that and it's explicitly explained to us that
30:19
man has been negotiating with the gods since the beginning of
30:23
religion. You know, we've been negotiating
30:25
with the spirits. And, and the reason I say that
30:28
is because we as, as human beings have a natural proclivity
30:33
for wanting to make a deal. And, you know, whether it's with
30:38
the climate gods and the Mayans in the way that they would
30:41
sacrifice, they're making a deal, you know?
30:44
Absolutely, yeah. And that idea of needing to
30:49
sacrifice in order to receive something is what you're talking
30:54
about. And, and largely the reason that
30:57
Paul incorporated this idea into his version of Christianity so
31:04
that it would be acceptable to the Hebrews who could not accept
31:12
that anything could be given without sacrifice.
31:15
It was, it was so heavily a part of their their culture.
31:23
So he he, he incorporated this idea of Jesus being a perfect
31:27
sacrifice so that they could understand that sacrifices no
31:35
longer needed to be made. He was the one and only
31:39
sacrifice that had to be made, and it worked.
31:44
I mean, we are. The book makes it clear that we
31:47
are indebted to Paul for the spread of Jesus's teachings.
31:53
And so we we have to tip our hats to him.
31:55
But he did take a number of liberties that we're now trying
32:02
to undo with difficulty. Yeah, it's also interesting that
32:08
in my experience is many people who actually refuse to believe
32:13
in Christianity or the tenets of Christianity is for that very
32:16
reason, which is they don't like this idea that only people who
32:20
know Jesus, you know, are, are are receive salvation.
32:25
They, they get offended like, well, what about people who
32:27
don't live in Africa? They'd never, you know, do they?
32:30
They don't get to go. So that argument for them
32:32
actually makes them not like Christianity because it's, it
32:35
has the appearance of being so inclusive, like it's a, it's a
32:38
litmus test that you have to believe.
32:40
And I and I think as my early Christian upbringing upbringing,
32:44
one of the things that I learned quickly as a Urantia book reader
32:49
was that Christians had a natural antagonism towards the
32:53
book, Not so much for the atonement doctrine, but because
32:56
of the statement in Revelation where it says that no book shall
33:00
come after, you know, they really position themselves in a,
33:05
in a clever way, you know, and it brilliant.
33:08
Yeah, absolutely. They had a monopoly on religion
33:13
and they didn't even let their congregation read the Bible.
33:16
They they kept them illiterate. They kept the book in one
33:19
language so that only they could interpret it.
33:22
And I mean, and, and to this day, they they do the same
33:25
thing. They, they don't encourage their
33:28
parishioners to, to, to read the Bible.
33:30
They give them a catechism and say, these are the questions you
33:33
need to answer. That's all you need to know.
33:35
I mean, it's, it's really sad. It's a lot of, it's a lot of
33:38
baggage that doesn't need to be there.
33:40
It doesn't mean that they aren't going that to find God through
33:44
this relate, this relationship that the Catholics offer.
33:48
It's just, it's so unfortunate to me that they have to carry
33:53
this extra baggage along with it.
33:57
Well, there's so much more of the story.
33:59
That's you know, like you and you are a when you found the
34:06
Oranga book 2 questions 1 is when did you at what point and
34:10
when you were reading it, what was there a specific paper where
34:13
you threw in my favorite phrase, the intellectual towel and said
34:18
I I believe this is the revelation it says it is.
34:21
When was that moment? And also, did did it help you
34:24
come back to appreciate your Christian upbringing by reading
34:30
the Arantia book? So to answer the first part of
34:35
the question, when did I throw in the intellectual towel?
34:40
It was a gradual process. I can't remember an exact moment
34:44
where I just said I surrender. It must be true.
34:50
But I do remember that that process of of gradually
34:56
surrendering my skepticism because when I first borrowed it
35:02
from the guy in my dorm who initially asked me about it, he
35:07
was like most people. He just kind of picked and
35:09
choose what he wanted to read and he didn't really read the
35:13
whole thing. He just saw some interesting
35:16
topic in the table of contents and sought those out and read
35:20
those and he wanted to know my perspective.
35:22
So that was what I initially read.
35:24
And I think that they were like the Lucifer story was what was
35:27
interesting to him and the the Adam and Eve story, some of the
35:31
original Bible stories, right? The original Christian Bible
35:34
stories better explained in the answer book.
35:36
So those are the first things that I read, but out of context,
35:40
there's a lot of information in there that is addressed earlier
35:44
in the book that you don't really understand.
35:49
If you just jump into those papers, you can, you can still
35:53
get, you know, the, the, the majority of, of what they're
35:58
what they're saying, but it is going to sound kind of crazy
36:02
because you don't have that context of all of these
36:05
different personalities that they're referring to.
36:08
And you don't get that introduction that really builds
36:11
up and makes sense of what you're reading.
36:14
So while I thought that the story was again, very well
36:21
written and very detailed and a very unique perspective on these
36:28
events, it wasn't at that point where I surrendered my my
36:36
original Christian beliefs. As I as I decided to actually go
36:44
through the book. Once I stopped picking and
36:48
choosing and said, OK, I just need to read the book.
36:51
And I started in book 4 to, to learn about the life of Jesus.
36:58
It wasn't long after that where I just, like I said it, it, it
37:02
made too much sense. It was too perfect.
37:09
It had a perfect explanation. Every question that I ever had
37:14
from reading the New Testament, and there are a plethora of
37:18
them, every one of them is answered in the Urantia book.
37:24
I no longer have any questions that the that the Bible the the
37:32
Christian Bible caused me to ask.
37:35
I have only answers, explanations for what these
37:44
human authors were writing and what they were trying to say,
37:52
how they misremembered some things, how these texts were,
37:59
you know, lost. I have a lot more.
38:03
I have a greater appreciation for Abraham.
38:06
I have a greater appreciation for Moses.
38:08
Absolutely. Oh, yeah.
38:10
Those are the, those are the stories that really came to life
38:12
for me because growing up, you know, and that, that I think is
38:17
undeserved. I mean, it's unappreciated that,
38:20
that people, there's a, a, a retinue of wonderful stories
38:25
that we all grew up on that that are so vague and they fill in so
38:30
many missing pieces. It's quite satisfying.
38:33
It it's very satisfying, especially the story of Adam.
38:37
I mean, not Adam Abraham, like you said, who is not the, the,
38:46
the, the, the passive patriarch that we kind of envisioned him
38:52
to be. He was a warlord, right?
38:55
Like he was a general. He was, he was stiff and, and
39:00
all of these people that Melchizedek was instructing
39:06
were, were hard men living in a very hard time.
39:11
And Abraham was the one who adopted the teachings the most
39:22
efficiently, effectively, and that's the only reason that they
39:28
became the chosen people, because they adopted this
39:33
monotheistic teaching that the best of all the religions that
39:42
came from these, that the Salem teacher.
39:47
Yeah. But as you read the history of
39:50
the Jews in the Urantia book, I personally lost an enormous
39:54
amount of respect for them because I've been taught my
39:58
whole life they were, they were God's chosen people.
40:03
And come to find out they they only wrote these things while
40:07
they were in captivity so that they could create this persona
40:11
and this perception in the the world.
40:14
Of their superior genetic strain.
40:19
They're they're God's chosen people, right?
40:22
And so don't touch them. Well the paper is all just
40:25
clarifies it and I'm trying to remember the title, but it's
40:28
called the the the word profane is used.
40:32
It's the subject of the profane history and sacred history, I
40:36
think. And, and it goes through that
40:38
whole process of how the Bible and the stories of, of the Old
40:41
Testament were assembled and how they couldn't get back to Adam.
40:45
They couldn't find the lineage. So they just came up with a
40:47
story of a flood. And it's sort of, you know, and
40:50
I see what you mean about how they turned every little thing
40:54
into, you know, this sacred, profound divine birth and all
40:57
this, you know, and it and it does.
41:00
I think the Urantia book does a great job at sort of clarifying
41:04
how we mystify even the the the Star of David is explained,
41:08
which to me is one of the strongest cases for the Urantia
41:12
book because picking those three dates later out, no one knew
41:16
what those three dates if they were actually accurate and they
41:19
turned out to be astronomically accurate.
41:22
And to me, that is probably one of the biggest cases for the
41:25
Urantia books accuracy. You also agree you believe that
41:30
much of the science in the book is is in error or a great
41:36
degree. I tend to I took a little bit of
41:38
a disagreement with you on that because I think some things that
41:42
maybe we think we're wrong about the Urantia book.
41:45
Actually, if you read it another way, it's sort of isn't quite as
41:49
wrong as you think it is because of the way.
41:52
Maybe not. You know.
41:54
But I do explicitly say that this information is based on
42:00
what you understand at this current time.
42:03
And we can already foresee that as your technology develops,
42:07
this information that we are presenting to you is going to be
42:12
outdated. But we cannot reveal this type
42:17
of information to you. Human wisdom in this respect has
42:22
to evolve on its own. So all they're doing is
42:24
clarifying and making sense as best as they can of the
42:29
information that is already available in 1933 or 35.
42:35
What was it, 3430? 53430. 5 So I, I think that
42:40
you're right, there is some stuff that will become more
42:44
understood and, and it will validate it, but it, they make
42:50
the claim themselves that this information is inaccurate.
42:54
And I think that's a huge argument for the books
42:57
authenticity itself. Because if it is a hoax, why are
43:00
you going to stop there? Why would the buck stop right
43:03
there with the scientific stuff? And, and why wouldn't you just
43:07
keep going with your, your charade and make up more stuff
43:12
for that, right. So the fact that they're so
43:16
genuine, so forthright about their intentions, about what
43:23
they're writing about their perspectives, and it's just,
43:28
there's no ulterior motive, right?
43:31
They're not saying, look how great I am.
43:34
Look what I have achieved. Look what I have written.
43:39
It's, it's just a, it's just a straightforward trying, telling
43:47
sometimes a hard truth. There's a lot of hard truth in
43:50
the book that isn't politically correct by today's standards,
43:54
obviously. But whether or not it agrees
43:58
with our political beliefs, it, it, it's, it's just, it lays it
44:07
out straightforward for us to, to, to take it and to try to
44:13
understand who we are as a people and where we're headed.
44:19
And that's why I've written so many other books that are, you
44:21
know, like one world government, because they make it very clear
44:25
that eventually this is the direction that you will head in.
44:32
It's, it's the natural progression of civilization that
44:36
you gather in larger and larger numbers.
44:39
You know, you start out in tribes and then you go to cities
44:42
and States and then you form nations.
44:44
And eventually you're going to do it one more time and you will
44:50
have a world government. And you'll never know true World
44:53
Peace until you unify in this way, until you, your individual
45:01
nations, surrender their rights to make war.
45:05
And we have examples in our own history, the United States
45:10
history, the UK history, the EU history of of how this has
45:14
happened. The the UN book itself points to
45:19
the United States Federation as an example of how this would
45:23
work on a smaller scale and. They also make the point that it
45:28
would be a government based on godly principles, making the
45:32
point that a government without God could no, can no longer hold
45:37
a people than than a solar system without gravity.
45:41
And I and I think that's an important distinction because
45:43
there are a lot of people who would fear the idea of a one
45:46
world government and they might get the wrong idea from the
45:49
Urantia book that it's pushing for a one word.
45:52
It's not. It's saying that it's the
45:53
natural order that eventually someday we will become a
45:57
peaceful race. Otherwise we won't get to that
46:00
next stage of towards the the year of light and life.
46:04
And so it makes that distinction.
46:06
Yeah. So the the the problem that I
46:11
encounter most readily when I bring up the subject of a one
46:16
world government or A1 world religion, it's always Christian.
46:19
It's Christian eschatology and the end time prophecy of an
46:24
Antichrist who is supposed to rise up and establish a world
46:30
government and a, you know, a religion and establish World
46:34
Peace only to betray everyone. And so this, this is the biggest
46:39
push back that I have received from my work.
46:45
And it's, it's, it's a hurdle. It's a big one, actually.
46:48
But I think luckily the if I say luckily, I don't know if that's
46:54
the right word, but our culture is moving away from Orthodox
47:00
Christianity. You know, organized religion as
47:05
a whole is, you know, falling. Every day they need a they need
47:12
the life of teachings of Jesus is what they need.
47:15
They need to look to the master first hand and, and actually
47:19
look what he said and why he said it in the context, in the
47:23
greater context of what the Urantia book provides as a, a
47:29
theater, if you will, as is in as Meredith said, and I quote
47:34
them often because I was fortunate enough to have
47:36
numerous conversations with with him.
47:38
He was an early pioneer, for those who don't know, and he
47:41
wrote the unabridged tarantula papers, which talk about a labor
47:45
of love. But you know, the distinction of
47:49
what he says is if it isn't like this, what else could it be?
47:53
Please offer me a better scenario for the universe, the
47:58
afterlife, the please, if you can come up with something
48:01
better, I'd love to hear it. And then, and I find that
48:05
message very encouraging. And I would say that to any
48:07
preacher, say, read the Urantia book and come to me and and and
48:11
ask me if there's a better explanation for angels or for
48:14
translations or being resurrected on the seven mansion
48:18
worlds. Please, I I'm begging you,
48:20
please come up with a better explanation.
48:23
And yeah, yeah. So tell me.
48:26
We've got a few minutes. Go ahead.
48:28
I'm sorry. Please.
48:30
I was just saying it's that level of complexity that is so
48:35
convincing. The, the way that it's
48:37
seamlessly integrates all these different fields of study,
48:44
angels, philosophy, science, religion, it, it just, it, it's,
48:50
it integrates everything so harmoniously and so
48:54
comprehensively and it can't be compared to anything in print or
49:04
in existence. That's what is so that's that's
49:10
the the greatest argument that I have for the genuineness of the
49:14
book. Yeah.
49:16
Well, listen, Ryan, I know you have other books that you've
49:18
written. You also have a great website
49:21
which is sort of the gathering place where you can find some of
49:24
these other wonderful books that you've written.
49:26
It it's the the 5th Revelation or the epical.
49:29
What's your website address? I had it up here on the screen,
49:32
then my screen went away. It's all one word, the 5th
49:36
revelation.com spelled out. The 5th revelation.com and your
49:43
other books written about truth, beauty and goodness.
49:46
Of course, the the Jesus have you have you?
49:48
Are you working on any media like you're going to go on Ted
49:53
TV or what are you doing? What what what would you like to
49:56
accomplish? What's your next accomplishment
49:58
here? Well, I have applied for some
50:02
grants from the the foundation in order to go on a speaking
50:07
tour to market and promote these works.
50:11
And one that is not published yet.
50:14
It's another book based on the idea of a world government
50:22
making a stronger argument of what we've already talked about.
50:27
How it's just the natural progression of human
50:31
civilization and world government is inevitable.
50:36
And basically we have a choice. World government is going to
50:39
happen inevitably, but the choice that we have is will we
50:45
establish that world government before the next global conflicts
50:50
or in the aftermath, right? So I'm trying to make the case
50:54
that this is going to happen one way or the other.
50:56
Do we want to blow ourselves up and have a near suicidal global
51:02
conflict one more time before we realize it and we throw down our
51:08
arms and establish this government?
51:10
Or do we want to go ahead and blow ourselves to Kingdom come
51:13
and then do it afterwards? Because it's going to happen one
51:16
way or the other. And so I basically just leave
51:20
that choice out there. And I, and I know that that's a
51:25
message that's going to resonate with the masses.
51:28
And that's who I'm trying to reach are the, the people, the
51:31
hearts and the minds of the people.
51:32
Because ultimately, that's where it has to start.
51:36
Life makes no sense. You're on a planet right now.
51:39
You think you're in America? Zoom out.
51:44
You're on a space rock floating in nothingness, infinite
51:48
nothingness. And the infinite nothingness is
51:51
expanding. That means endlessness is
51:54
getting bigger. That makes no sense.
51:58
We all just act like it's normal, like, oh, we're
52:01
everything's made of molecules. OK, got it.
52:06
I'll never think about that again.
52:10
I'm made of molecules. You're made of molecules.
52:12
The air between us, it's all made of molecules.
52:14
That makes no sense. These molecules know their
52:16
molecules. These molecules are like, I'm
52:19
Pete. That doesn't make any sense.
52:23
This stool is made of molecules, the same molecules in my hand.
52:27
In fact, some of the molecules in the stool went into me while
52:31
I've been talking, and some that were me have gone into this
52:33
stool. And you know, when I knock these
52:36
molecules into these molecules, when we ask science why don't
52:39
they go through each other, you know what the answer is?
52:42
We don't know. That doesn't make any sense.
52:46
And again, thank you to Ryan McGuire for taking time out of
52:50
his day to talk about his case for the Urantia Book and more
52:54
great interviews coming up next week, we'll be talking with
52:56
folks who created Urantia Pedia. And then special guest from the
53:01
Center for Unity, Gabriel Reinberg will be joining us in
53:04
the weeks ahead. And again, we're always here for
53:07
you 24/7 on the Urantia Book radio stream and of course,
53:10
urantiaradio.org. Until next time, be of great
53:13
cheer and we'll talk again soon.