Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / BONUS: Utah State Meet featuring Scott Stucki from Hillcrest HS

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BONUS: Utah State Meet featuring Scott Stucki from Hillcrest HS · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

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It's bonus time here on the Gill Connections podcast.
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In an effort to increase communication, empathy and
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understanding around the country, we're going to be
0:08
running a new episode every day interviewing a coach, a high
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school coach from every state, and yes, even you, Washington,
0:16
DC with explaining how the state qualifying system works in their
0:21
state. We'll be talking with a local
0:23
state expert on how many classes, private versus public
0:27
schools, what events and what is the process?
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Is it areas, districts, regionals, state meet?
0:34
Is it a descending order list? Are there fun things that you do
0:38
a little differently? Like maybe you, I don't know,
0:41
maybe you do double points for relays looking at you Texas.
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And then we're also going to get to the bottom of is it the state
0:48
meet or do you qualify for states?
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So check us out every day here at April and May of 2024 as we
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run through each state with a local state expert.
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So let's get started right now. All right.
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Welcome back as if you've been joining us and I hope you have
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been with us this entire time. We started back in April 2nd.
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We're going all the way to the end of May, going to every state
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in the country, even you, Washington, DC to learn about
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their outdoor state meet series. I'm super excited.
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We're going to learn about Utah today, so let's hop into it.
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Help me welcome from Hillcrest High School.
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Mr. Scott Stookie Scott. How are you Sir?
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I am doing well. Thank you.
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Thank you. You know, it has hit me as we
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get closer to the end of this and you know, 51 different
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championships, radically different championships too, by
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the way, that, you know, this type of series, which I think is
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going to be really important for people to listen to, doesn't
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happen without 51 servant leaders such as yourself
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stepping up and doing this for us.
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So I just want to say thank you from me, from all of Gil
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athletics, just so grateful that you would step up, you know, put
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yourself out there and represent this great state of Utah.
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So thank you so much Scott for for doing this for us.
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No problem. Glad to help.
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Awesome, man. Well, why don't we get started?
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Let's get to know you a little bit better.
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Why don't you give us like a 32nd kind of 30,000 foot level
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introduction of yourself? Why should someone from Florida,
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they want to learn about Utah and they're like, well, why
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should I listen to Scott? Let's give yourself a little bit
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of St. cred here. Well, I actually had to for
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award. I got.
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I counted up my seasons and so I've now done 29 track seasons,
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24 of them in Utah. And I've been at Hillcrest, my
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current school, in track, since 2005, and then I've been the
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head coach since 2007. I've been helping out with cross
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country since 2003. And then about five years ago, I
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ended a, but I think it was 4 1/2 year term as the Coaches
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Association president for our coaches association here in
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Utah. Awesome.
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Well, thanks for your service. I mean, you know, teaching and
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coaching isn't enough. So you just thought, OK, I'll
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just, I'll do more service to track and field for our state.
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Yeah. Something like that.
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I love it. I love it.
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All right man, let's hop into this and let's learn about this
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great state and how we do outdoor track and field.
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It's got you know, some States and we're learning not many, but
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some states have a separate private school Athletic
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Association and they go this route and they have their own
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state meet and public schools go over here and they go this route
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to do their state meet and never do they mix.
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And most states that we're finding out more common is both
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public and private are together. We're all fighting it out for
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the same state team titles. What are we doing in Utah?
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Private and public schools. Well, we don't have enough high
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schools to split. We probably have, I don't know,
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probably less than 20 private schools, including some really
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small ones. We also have a bunch of charter
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schools. So they're not separate in terms
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of competing at state. Some of our regions in the
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state, in some of the smaller divisions, some of the regions
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are almost exclusively comprised of private and and charter
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schools. But in terms of state
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classification, everybody's all together.
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Got it? Perfect.
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Appreciate that. That's the most common.
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So that that's good. OK.
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So for Utah, how many classes? So how many state meets oh oh
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this this look already. Buckle up I guess.
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Here we go. How many?
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Well, it's it's. We have 6, OK.
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Because we only have about 160 high schools, it might be a
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little more than that by now, but but the size disparity is
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quite large. We have little tiny rural high
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schools that have, you know, maybe 100 students.
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And then we've got schools with over 3000 and so it's been
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separated into 6 classifications and there's typically right now
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our smallest classification in terms of number of schools is
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our biggest 6A. This two year cycle we're down
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to 18 schools in that one. But it's it's more common to
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have in the 20s for classifications.
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So I heard you say 6A. So we've got six classes.
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Do we call them 6A5A4A down to one A?
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Yes, yes. 1A is the smallest. 6A is the biggest.
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Perfect. Yep.
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Good. Awesome.
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OK, so in spring, six boys teams are going to win a state team
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title and six girls teams are going to win a state team title.
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Yes. Awesome.
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Let's figure out how they do that around the country.
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The first round is called Area Divisional Sectionals,
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Regionals, all these different names.
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What do we call the first round in Utah?
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So it's our our region championships and you can you
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can actually qualify to state out of the region championships.
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So region champs. So and that's my first round,
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correct. Yes.
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So talk to me about how do I enter my kids into region
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champs? And what I mean by that is do I
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get 2 per event and then a qualifying standard for athlete
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number 345, however many I can do?
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What? What do I do there?
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It varies by region. Each region makes their own
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rules. Typically a lot of regions will
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do. You get 5 athletes per event and
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one relay team per event. There are some regions that do a
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total number of entries so you can put if you you got a strong
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distance crew, you can put eight kids in the mile and then only
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two in the 100 or whatever, but most.
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Most regions go pick a number and 4-5 and six are really
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common and there's some that do the total entries.
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Got it? Perfect.
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OK, so I get my, depending on the region, four or five per
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event or descending order list. I'm at the region championships.
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What is the next round and what do I got to do to get there?
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The next round is the state championship.
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Got it. That's, that's most common.
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That's good. So, OK, So what do I got to do
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in region? I want to make it to States.
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What do I got to do? You got to finish in the top 4,
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top 4. Yeah, sometimes they'll change
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that with some of the larger regions in classifications, but
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typically it's top four. They'll they'll change it by
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size. If you got a bigger region,
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sometimes it's five or six. But typically top four in your
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region will go to state and then there's some variation with
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larger, more competitive regions versus smaller regions.
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Sometimes they'll get more. Is there ever, any time
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qualification that goes with that?
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Meaning if you're in a region that takes top four, but they
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also take the next, you know out of all the regions not top
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fours, the next 5 best times or distances or anything like that
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or is always place. We also have time qualifiers.
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It can be done at any qualifying meet and so we have several
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weekends of state qualifying meets leading.
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Well, they start in middle of March and then if you hit one of
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the qualifying times or distance at a qualifying meet, then
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you're also qualified for state. Oh, OK.
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So Regions is one way to make it.
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If I make top four, I'm going, but throughout my regular
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season, I'm just going to make up a number here.
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Let's say it's 11 flat for the 100.
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If I run better than 11 flat, I automatically go to state meet
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in that event. Yes, Do I have to compete at
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region if I have the auto qualifier for state?
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No. So A-Team, you know, that's not
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unheard of that a team can have 6789 great Millers or any event
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really. A team can figure out how to get
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those 6789 Millers to the state meet.
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Yes, it's not uncommon for coaches to hold out kids that
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have qualified in an event. Trying to get a couple more kids
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qualified. Oh, right, 'cause if they're out
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of qualified and they don't take the top four slots and my guy
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can move up or something. See, I do love this.
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We don't talk about the strategy of coaching track and field like
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we do with like football. And you know, OK, they're going
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to run this type of offense, things like that.
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I like it with track, like there's got to be some strategy
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here and what you do where you place your kids.
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Awesome. Great.
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OK, so let's talk about this state meet.
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So we do regions and we also do an auto qualifier throughout the
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year. We go to the state meet.
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Let's talk about that. First of all, we've got six
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classes, so we've got 12 state championships, 6 boys, 6 girls,
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are all six, held at the same venue, same weekend.
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And tell us a little bit about that venue.
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Is it a college? High school?
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Stays the same, Rotates around. The the state track meet is
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almost always held at BYU, OK for the last several decades,
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and the way it's been divided the last couple years, it it
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used to be just a two day meet. Trials on Friday and finals on
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Saturday, with field events and distance races mixed in for all
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six classes. Yeah.
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Well, that changed when we went to six classifications a few
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years ago. That's a long couple of days.
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Right there, yeah. And so now it's a three day
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meet. And so the way it's been done
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the last few years is 5A and 6A have their prelims on Thursday
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and then 1A through 4A have their prelims on Friday and then
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the finals are on Saturday. All finals on Saturday, yes, so
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all 12/6. Boy, 6 girls are going to win a
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state title on Saturday. Yes, I love that.
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That's like championship Saturday.
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I like when they all go on the same day.
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That's cool. Makes for a long day.
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The facility is more crowded than it used to be.
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There used to be fewer schools. But it's it's kind of fun to
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watch the other team celebrate. You know the small schools,
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'cause you know, they don't always get their chance in the.
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To sign like that, but it's kind of fun.
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One thing I should add going back to the qualifying yeah, the
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the Region meet also acts as a qualifier.
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So if you hit a qualifying mark at the Region Meet, even if
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you're not in the top 4, you can qualify for state with your time
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at the region meet as well. That's good.
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That was a good adder there. So the qualifiers not just
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regular season, it actually goes through the region.
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Meet as well, yeah Region. Region also serves as a state
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qualifying meet. So, so we can have and and I
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assume with this qualifying time do have unbalanced events and
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what I mean by that is you may have 2400 meter runners but you
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may have I'm going to say 12 that probably not as a great
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number but they're they're not the same number per event based
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on this because it's the qualifying time goes with this.
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Correct. Yeah, perfect.
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OK. Hey, you know what we know,
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Scott, for a fact is that track and field is the most inclusive
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sport in the world. Tall, short, big, small.
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There is some place for you to achieve some success in our
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great sport. We've learned that a a good
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number of states actually are adding adaptive, unified
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wheelchair type events to their state meet series.
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Anything like that going on in Utah?
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Actually last year was the first year that the unified state meet
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had been held in conjunction with with the state meet.
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And so it was on the prelims days.
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So we had, I think there was 3. I want to say 3 might not be the
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right number, but there were like there's the I think the 50,
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the 100 and the four by one for our unified athletes and it was
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actually in the state, same same venue, full crowd.
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So yeah, the until last year the unified state meet had been a
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separate event and then last year they combined and I I think
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that was a good move. Oh, interesting.
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So you've had these type of events, but they've had their
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own day or venue or whatnot and now we're including them into
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our outdoor state meet championship.
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Yes, that that started last year and is my understanding is that
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that will continue moving forward.
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Awesome. Well, kudos to coaches in Utah
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and the association for for doing that.
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That's awesome. That's really, really cool.
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OK, so we've talked about this and we've got these six
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different classes. So that means in the high jump
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there are six different boy high jump champions and six different
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girl high jump champions. Some states, whether it's
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officially through the Athletic Association or unofficially,
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maybe through a coach's association, we'll do like a
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meet of champions where we invite the top two or three per
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class, put them all together and we figure out air quotes here,
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who the true state champion is. Anything like that going on?
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No, we don't. We don't do that in the
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probably. When I first started in Utah, we
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had a meet like that and I think it was from the coaches
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association, but just I I think it went away because of lack of
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interest. So we we crowned those six
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different high jump champs and good.
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You're the three eight. You're the six eight.
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You're the 1/8. Yeah, especially at some of the
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bigger invitationals. The best kids in the state get a
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lot of chances to compete against each other already, so
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perfect. All right, let's take a look at
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some of your events that you're doing here.
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We're going to go by group, Scott, so we can assume you're
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doing the 1-2, the four and the eight for boys and girls.
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All right, The next two are we doing the 1632, the fifteen
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3000, the mile, Two mile. What are we doing in these next
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two events? 16 and 32.
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That's the most common. Perfect.
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Then we go to the hurdles. We're doing the 110 highs and
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the 100 hurdles for both boys and girls.
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Yes, we're doing the 300 hurdles, boys and girls.
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Yes. OK, perfect.
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Let's do relays. We know you're doing the four by
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one and the four by four because if you weren't, you wouldn't be
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doing track and you wouldn't be on this podcast.
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What other relays might you be doing?
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In 4A5A and 6A we do the four by two and four by eight, and in 1A
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through 3A they do the four by one, the four by four, and the
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medley relay 2248 medley. Oh, so one through 3 does the
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four by one 4x4 and the medley and tell me again what that 224
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would you say 2248? It's basically the Mile Medley
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2248. Yeah.
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Why? You know putting in the spot.
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So it's fair for you to say, I don't know why the difference in
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the four through 6 doing the four by 124 and eight, but over
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in the four by or in the one through three, we're doing the
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four by one 4x4 and the Sprint medley, if you will.
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Why the difference there? Well the difference is that we
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used to all do the four by one 4x4 in Sprint medley.
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But for a couple of decades we've been talking about how
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we're a distance heavily state. Why do we have all our relays
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favor of the sprinters and not our distance kits.
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And so we we kind of got the ball rolling during my
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presidency and then after my. Mine was done.
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The next group that that took over, they got it across the
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finish line. And the way we got the four by 8
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is that we included the four by two 'cause there are a few
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coaches that were more Sprint heavy schools that wouldn't vote
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for the 4 by 8 without their four by two, and so we are now 4
15:33
relays for the bigger classifications.
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That's a great lesson in civics and politics, I think, right
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there, yeah. And so it's worked out at first.
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We did it with A2 turn stagger which.
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I mean it's a lot of excitement on that third hand off and then
15:50
but now we've made it pretty uniform.
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We run it with a four turn stagger.
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OK, got it. Any talk of adding the medley?
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Either way, adding the medley relay back to the four through 6
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or adding the four by 8 to the one through 3.
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No, because it's a depth issue, especially the smaller schools.
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They have a hard enough time filling a medley.
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Forget about a four by eight. Yeah, makes sense.
16:16
All right, let's go to our field events.
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We're doing long jump and triple jump for boys and girls.
16:20
We do not have triple jump for both or one.
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We do not have triple jump at all in Utah, all right.
16:27
You are unfortunately one of the handful.
16:30
I wish there was 0. But we're aware, yeah, OK.
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That is also a that is also a conversation that comes up
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fairly frequently. OK, as I'll say that sounds like
16:38
there's a conversation going good.
16:39
Good. All right.
16:40
Yeah. Yeah.
16:41
I would imagine and I really hope you know in this series
16:43
that some data scientist coach is keeps track of stuff like
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this because I did not shame on me as your host, but I did not.
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But I would be interested I want to say up to now at least here
16:55
in Utah. I would say it's probably still
16:57
on one hand, you might be #5, though there's a there's a few
17:00
out there. OK.
17:02
All our. Yeah, all the surrounding states
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have triple jump and we don't. That always makes it a little
17:06
harder when all the people surrounding you.
17:07
Yeah, exactly. All right.
17:08
So we have long jump for boys and girls.
17:09
We're not doing triple jump in Utah.
17:12
Shot, put and discus. Boys and girls.
17:14
Yes, pole vault and high jump, boys and girls.
17:17
Kind of. OK, explain that I'm pole vault.
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I'm going to go on a limb and say it's high jump for boys and
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girls for sure. Yes.
17:24
And pole vault. What are you doing?
17:25
Pole vault is scored in 6A and 5A down.
17:29
It's a exhibition event. And that all changed how many
17:36
years ago it was when all the regulations for pole vault pit
17:39
sizes changed, several classifications voted not to
17:44
have it anymore because of cost issues and and other issues.
17:48
There's a chance we get it back in five A there's we're we're
17:53
working on that. We don't know.
17:55
That's just kind of the beginning of the process.
17:57
So we're hoping we get pole vault back in 5A.
18:00
But in the lower classifications, I I don't see
18:02
it coming back. Well, we're quite aware of those
18:05
costs, absolutely. We we understand that for sure.
18:07
And obviously you know here's the little plug, anything we can
18:10
do to help to bring those back in any of those, all of those
18:13
divisions. You now have my phone number.
18:15
You let me know what we need to do to make.
18:17
One thing that's helped though is we got a lot more schools
18:20
pole vaulting than we did 20 years ago, and in some cases
18:24
it's because we've got pole vault coaches at a lot of
18:26
schools. But there's a a pole vault,
18:31
there's a club called the Pole Vault Academy that I mean they
18:35
train everybody's kids and all those guys are coaching at
18:37
different high schools. And so now we have a lot of
18:39
schools represented in pole vault that haven't been because
18:42
now their kids have an opportunity where they can go
18:44
get coached and and so hopefully it means we have pole vault and
18:47
more classifications down the road.
18:49
I think the keyword you said in that couple sentences there was
18:53
opportunity. That's exactly what I think
18:55
about when I think about high school kids and specifically
18:57
here with this event. Awesome.
18:59
All right, What else? Anything javelin, hammer,
19:02
steeplechase, multis, anything like that in our in our state
19:05
Meet series? We have Javelin.
19:07
Awesome, good. Both boys and girls, yeah.
19:10
Yes, multis. There are two meets it held at
19:15
college facilities during the season that that sometimes kids
19:18
can get to go do the the steeplechase and then.
19:23
Actually BYU hosts a meet earlier in the fairly early in
19:27
the season, kind of mid season. It's a steeplechase and multis
19:30
event and so kids get a chance to run the steeple and and do a
19:33
multi, do a deck or a half. Awesome.
19:35
And then Utah Valley, they actually.
19:39
They host an early season meet. They you can do the steeplechase
19:42
of their meet and then one of the actually one of the small
19:45
high schools down in central Utah.
19:47
They don't do pole vault but they do the other nine events of
19:50
the decathlon and then they do a hep as well.
19:52
And so there's a there's a few opportunities for kids to do
19:56
multi events and then what would and then postseason stuff.
19:59
What would You're smarter than I am.
20:00
What would we call it? Decathlon without the pole vault
20:02
9 events, What would we call that 9 athon?
20:05
My, my Latin is not good enough for that.
20:09
Hey, I do like that. You know, I don't like that you
20:11
don't have pole vault, but I do like that they don't allow that
20:14
to stop them from doing something like the decathlon.
20:17
That could easily be an excuse. I do like at least kids are
20:19
getting opportunity and experience for doing that
20:23
without that one event. So that's that's really cool.
20:25
Love that. Now some meets will do an
20:28
unofficial state meet after the official state meet with some of
20:32
these events, the multis or you know, steeple things.
20:35
Like that doesn't necessarily sound like that's going on
20:37
because it sounds like we're actually doing a lot of that
20:39
preseason or you know during the season.
20:41
Yeah, we we don't we don't really have a lot of time for
20:44
that in terms of the school year after our state meet because our
20:47
our state meet is in the, you know second, third weekend in
20:51
May and then we're we're most of the schools are out week or two
20:54
later. So there's not really time for
20:55
that. Got it.
20:57
This has been awesome, Scott, before we move on to a couple of
20:59
fun questions, anything we missed, Anything I didn't ask.
21:02
Anything that makes Utah unique, I don't know.
21:05
You double your relay points, you only score 6 at state.
21:08
You run the four by four at midnight because that's a Utah
21:11
tradition. I don't know anything that we
21:13
should know. No, not not really.
21:16
Just yeah. The the just some information
21:22
about the state qualifying times is they're based on the 8th
21:25
place finish the year before the state meet.
21:28
And so the way it's calculated, here's some getting into the
21:32
weeds for you. But it's three times the
21:34
existing state mark plus the 8th place mark divided by 4 and that
21:39
becomes the new. So if you have an outrageously
21:42
fast year that next year's time is gonna be tough.
21:46
And sometimes not very often but sometimes it goes the other way.
21:49
But but yeah, the the 1600 marks are getting pretty fast to make
21:54
it to state. Because if you're doing that
21:56
now, math is not my strong suit here.
21:58
I I, I want to say that the new year brings 25% of what the new
22:03
year, you know the next year could be.
22:05
But that that initial times three though is an amalgamation
22:08
of many years past as well. So I feel like some math person
22:11
would tell me that it's not actually 25%, but it is a big
22:14
percentage. So it can make it swim.
22:16
Yeah, it can. Yeah, perfect.
22:17
OK. All right.
22:18
Let's have a little bit of fun here, Scott, you know, all
22:20
around the country we say this differently.
22:22
So at least in your culture, your part of the of the state
22:26
and in Utah, the the bus ride that you're going to take to the
22:29
state meet, when you're talking about state, are you, did you
22:32
qualify for state? Did you qualify for states?
22:35
Did you qualify for the state meet?
22:36
Help us settle this debate here. We usually just talk about
22:39
making it to state. No SI heard no S there, no S
22:43
singular. All right, 'cause I know someone
22:45
is gonna keep track of this because there are some very
22:47
hardliners on both sides of the state states debate.
22:51
So we had to. I've seen, I've seen
22:52
conversations about that on Let's Run.
22:54
Oh yeah. Well, thanks.
22:57
As we get, as we get to nearly 50 states, this is the first
23:00
time that website has been brought up.
23:01
Thank you, Scott. Appreciate that very much.
23:03
I'm sorry, it's AI know I spent too much time there.
23:07
Even with that, I'm not going to call it a slip.
23:09
But even with that, Scott, you are going to win the magic wand
23:13
today. If you could change one thing
23:15
and please only one thing, my friend, in the outdoor or I
23:18
should just say track and field for high school experience there
23:22
in the state of Utah that you think would make it better,
23:24
would enhance it for coaches and athletes alike.
23:26
What might that be? I think the one thing I would
23:29
change is we have a running conversation about who deserves
23:35
to be at the state need and how to qualify and who's and all
23:38
that. I think the only thing I would
23:39
do is I would keep our our qualification system, which is
23:43
quite frankly very forgiving the way it is.
23:46
But the one change I would make is I would fill lanes.
23:49
And so if there's three, 'cause it's a nine lane track at BYU,
23:54
if we have 22 kids qualified, why don't we bring in the next 5
23:58
from the descending order list and and have 27 kids in the
24:01
event fill the lanes? That's that's the one change I
24:04
would make is especially in the lane events and even in the
24:07
field events to make flight sizes similar.
24:11
Even now, I would I would fill the available lanes.
24:14
Yeah, you almost have to like set up.
24:15
Here is what we are going to do per heat this many, you know, 9
24:18
lanes for a hundred, maybe it goes to 8 for the 400, but we're
24:21
going to do flights of eight for the field events.
24:24
So if it becomes a number not divisible by 8, you move it up
24:28
to the to the farthest 8 or whatnot.
24:30
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I would absolutely fill the
24:32
lanes. That makes a lot of sense.
24:34
Scott, Scott, man, thank you so much.
24:36
This is, you know, I hope someone, I know someone.
24:38
I know many, many someone's are following along all the way from
24:41
Alabama all the way to the very end here in Wyoming.
24:43
And this has just been really mind blowing what we're learning
24:46
here. I love what you guys are doing
24:47
there in Utah. Thank you for being a Javelin
24:49
state. I mean that's a big deal.
24:50
We're probably about just over 50% now.
24:53
We're probably about 2627 states.
24:55
So love that you're giving kids the opportunity there and I
24:57
loved learning this different relays for the four through 6
25:00
and the different relays for. So one through three and the
25:03
actually rationale explanation of why that.
25:06
So Scott, thank you so much. We appreciate you being here and
25:08
we appreciate you being here listening.
25:10
Join us if you got to get caught up, go back-to-back to April
25:13
2nd. That's where our first one is.
25:14
We're going to go all the way here.
25:16
We're almost there to the end of May and we're going to check out
25:18
all 51 because we're even keeping you in here Washington,
25:21
DC So thanks for being with us today.
25:22
Join us tomorrow. Thanks everybody.