Latest / Elon Musk Podcast / Government Stealing Tesla User Data?

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Government Stealing Tesla User Data? · Elon Musk Podcast

• 0:00
  Hey, everybody, welcome back to the Elon Musk Podcast.
• 0:02
  This is a show about Elon Musk, his companies such as Tesla,
• 0:07
  SpaceX, Boring Company, Neuralink, and also we talk
• 0:11
  about DOGE sometimes. Today we're going to be talking
• 0:15
  about Tesla and also the Donald Trump administration and how the
• 0:20
  new administration could set the tone for the future of EVs in a
• 0:28
  weird way. And I think it might be a little
• 0:31
  bit dangerous. And I want to know what you
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  think in the comments down below.
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  But let's take a look at this article from Reuters.
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  First and foremost, we have to know when information is out
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  there. Team Trump wants to scrap the
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  car crash reporting rule that Tesla opposes.
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  OK, so Elon Musk and Donald Trump are friends.
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  They're buddies. Elon Musk bought his way into
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  the White House basically. And I know it's a controversial
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  take, but he did donate a bunch of money to Trump.
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  And also he's one of the leads on the doge new department for
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  the Trump administration. So of course, you know, you have
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  to, you have to call it like it is.
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  The guy knows what's going on. He knows how to get his way.
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  And Donald Trump is one of those guys that if you pay him enough
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  money and he likes your ideas, you're going to get your way.
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  So let's talk about this for a second.
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  Trump transition team recommends repealing requirement that
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  companies report automated vehicle crash data.
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  So let's just take that by itself.
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  Repeal the requirement that companies report automated
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  vehicle crash data. Elon Musk and Tesla are making
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  automated vehicles. What happens at a fin automated
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  vehicle crashes. They want to report that crash
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  to somebody. Of course, the authorities,
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  police, ambulance, possibly you get those people involved, but
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  also the little black boxes, if you will, everything that's
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  recorded up until that point. Does that belong to the user of
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  the vehicle? Does that belong to Tesla or
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  should that be sent in to the government to check out?
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  That's what they're talking about.
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  The required data could be sent to the government.
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  Your data and your car. How would you drive and what
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  happened during this crash? Maybe not.
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  I mean, you're not driving because it's automated, but it's
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  an Elon Musk car, it's a Tesla. So is this because they don't
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  want to get caught? Think about that for a second.
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  I want you to think about that and I want you to comment down
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  below too, because this is a community.
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  We're building, building this community.
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  And I want to have an open discussion about this.
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  I'm coming at it from 1 Slant and I want you to come at it
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  from your ideas too. So Elon Musk's Tesla opposes the
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  requirement, arguing it has unfairly targeted his company.
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  Unclear if Donald Trump administration will adopt the
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  recommendation to quash reporting requirement.
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  OK, so we don't know yet. Trump isn't quite in office yet.
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  So we don't know if he's going to make an executive order or if
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  he's going to kind of nudge some people the right way.
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  That's it's politics, man. It's that's what they do.
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  They nudge people the right way. Hey, we're going to do you a
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  favor. You're going to do us a favor
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  later. Let's get this thing done.
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  Trump transition team wants the incoming administration to drop
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  a car crashing reporting requirement opposed by Tesla,
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  according to a document seen by Reuters.
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  A move or was this a move that could cripple the government's
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  ability to investigate and regulate the safety of vehicles
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  with automated driving systems? Do they want to regulate the
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  safety of these vehicles or do they just want to to let them do
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  whatever they do when they crash and have no data?
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  I mean, that's that's what it comes down to.
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  Elon doesn't want anybody to have the data of what happened
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  during these autonomous crashes. Is it a privacy thing?
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  Maybe. Is it an accountability thing?
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  More than likely. Now.
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  Musk, the world's richest man, spent more than 1/4 of a billion
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  dollars helping Trump get elected president in November.
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  Removing the crash disclosure provision would particularly
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  benefit Tesla, which has reported most of the crashes
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  more than 1500 to federal safety regulators under the program.
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  This has been targeted in National Hwy.
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  Traffic Safety Administration investigations, including three
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  stemming from the data. Out of 1500 crashes, three came
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  from this data. 3 probes came from this data and targeted by
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  National Hwy. Traffic Safety Administration in
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  investigations, but only three came from the data, so that's
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  not a big deal. Recommendation to kill or to
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  kill? The crash reporting rule came
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  from a transition team tasked with producing A-100 day
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  strategy for automotive policy. The group called the measure a
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  mandate for excessive data collection, The document seen by
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  Reuters shows. The Trump team, Musk and Tesla
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  did not respond to requests. Of course they're not going to
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  like that. Who would?
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  Reuters could not determine what role, if any, Musk may have
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  played in crafting the transition team recommendations
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  or the likelihood the administration would enact them.
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  We don't know what's going on behind the scenes.
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  Elon and Tesla there and then you know, it goes on to say that
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  there is. NHTSA crash data shows Tesla
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  accounted for 40 out of the 45 fatal crashes reported to NHTSA
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  through October 15th. 40 of the 45.
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  One of the Tesla crashes NHTSA investigated under the provision
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  for a 2023 fatal accident in Virginia where a driver used the
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  car's autopilot feature is slammed into a tractor trailer,
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  and a California wreck the same year where an autopilot Tesla
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  hit a fire truck, killing a driver and injuring 4
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  firefighters. I would want to know if I were
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  those people's family, what happened.
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  That's not being selfish, that's just being rational.
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  You know, you want to know what happened?
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  How did your loved one die? And if the NHTSA can get that
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  data and let you know that it was because of Tesla's faulty,
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  something you want to know about that so you can take the action
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  that needs to be taken against somebody who did you wrong?
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  I can understand that. I can understand Tesla saying
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  that it's a huge privacy risk because you might have an hour's
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  worth of data before then. What if you're in a place that
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  you don't want anybody to know about and you shouldn't tell
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  anybody where you're going or where you're where you're coming
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  from. That's your data.
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  That's your personal information that you don't want spread
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  anywhere. You don't want anybody else
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  looking at it. And that would be a weird thing,
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  I think, for people to have that data.
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  NHTSA said a statement that such data is crucial to evaluating
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  safety of emerging automated driving technologies.
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  They said the crash reporting requirements were pivotal to
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  agency investigations into Tesla's driver assistance
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  features that led to 2023 recalls.
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  And without the data, NHTSA cannot easily detect crash
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  patterns that highlight safety problems.
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  So not only it is the NHTSA using this crash data to, you
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  know, to hold people accountable, it's not just Tesla
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  either. It's other automated driving
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  vehicles out there, so not just Tesla, they're not just
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  targeting Tesla. So we can't get all up in arms
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  about that. And HTSA said it has received an
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  analyzed data on more than 2700 crashes since the agency
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  established the rule in 2020. One 2700 crashes in 3:00-ish
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  years, that's not that many. Data influence 10 investigations
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  into six companies, not just Tesla, NHTSA said, as well as
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  nine safety recalls involving 4 different companies.
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  So they're not targeting Tesla directly and only Tesla.
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  One example, NHTSA find Cruise, the self driving start up owned
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  by GM 1.5 million in September for failing to report a 2023
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  incident in which a vehicle hit and dragged a pedestrian.
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  Could've been struck by another car.
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  Like you need that data. You need to know what happened.
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  GM said this week it would end robotaxi development of Cruise
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  and folded into its group of working driver assist other
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  technologies. I don't know I I would like to
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  have a discussion about This October Tesla earnings call must
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  call for a federal approval process for autonomous vehicles
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  rather than a patchwork of state laws, he called incredibly
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  painful to navigate. That's true.
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  Every state has their own laws about autonomous driving.
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  The federal government should step in and give a framework to
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  all these states about how this works.
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  I think my own personal opinion, because if you have to go
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  through every single state and do different rules for every
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  state, you have to develop software for every different
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  state, that's incredibly difficult.
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  I mean, it, it depends of course, what the requirements
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  are, but you'd probably have to develop some other software for
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  these other States. And that's, this is a lot of
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  it's a lot of work. And that can postpone the
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  development of these vehicles, this autonomous driving future
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  for a decade. You know, you never know how
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  fast these things can change as well.
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  Like a state could change the law and then you have to rebuild
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  a bunch of code like this. I'm a, I'm a developer.
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  I run a development house, a web designed firm.
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  I know how hard it is. I know what it's like when, when
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  things change and when you have to take your 10,000 lines of
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  code, sift through it, figure out which code, which part of
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  the code, and even if it's well documented to figure out which
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  part of the code does what. I mean, it's, it's incredibly
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  difficult to get some of these things to work properly after
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  you actually find out where the code is and you redo it takes a
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  long time. OK.
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  So Trump has, of course, promised to push for regulatory
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  changes, slim down the government.
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  That's what the doge is all about, the Department of
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  Government efficiency that Elon's part of, along with
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  Vivek. You know, they're outside the
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  government. They're telling Trump what to
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  do, not, he's not going to always do action on all these
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  things, but there's they're telling him, hey, man, we need
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  federal regulations for autonomous driving.
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  We don't want our black boxes checked out.
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  We don't want our data checked out.
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  So can you please help us there? More data and more crashes.
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  Tesla is among the most prominent automakers developing
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  advanced driver assistant features and which can assist
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  with lane changes, driving speed and steering.
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  If you ever been at a Tesla, it's quite insane to be in there
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  while it drives itself. Hands off the wheel.
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  The thing just goes and knows where you're going and we'll
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  take you there and we'll park you now.
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  Incredible. And now with the robo taxis
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  coming up, it's going to be wild, impossible.
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  Less than $30,000 Tesla vehicle that might have some sort of it.
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  It should have an auto driving feature of some sort, a full
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  self driving system, autopilot, something don't know yet, but
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  we've heard the rumbles about the new Tesla and it looks
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  sounds pretty awesome under $30,000.
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  You know, there's Department of Justice criminal probe here
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  examining whether Tesla exaggerated his vehicle self
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  driving capabilities, misleading investors and harming consumers.
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  So they have a point here too. And this is sort of it's off
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  topic. I don't know why Reuters did
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  this, but the Department of Justice has nothing to do with
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  this. So it's a weird thing for them
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  to do that, but the NHTSA is who's taking care of this.
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  So the full self driving, definitely a thing that Elon is
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  pumped up for a really long time and hasn't come to full
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  fruition. It's partially there.
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  It's not full self driving. It does drive itself most the
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  time, but not fully. It's getting there though.
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  It can go from point A to point B and park you at the new place,
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  which is really, really cool and great, but it's not full self
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  driving yet. Auto summon is cool.
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  That's a really cool feature of summon your car to you.
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  You get in, then when you get in you can tell to go wherever you
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  need it to go and then I'll park you there.
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  So it's almost there, but you do have to do assisting sometimes,
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  so that's another part of it. I didn't mean to do that.
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  I didn't mean to click that link.
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  Here we go. So Tesla despises the crash
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  notification requirement, believing the NHTSA presents the
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  data in ways that misleads consumers about the automaker
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  safety, two sources familiar with Tesla executives thinking
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  told Reuters. Here's another part of it that I
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  liked. NHTSA cautions that the data
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  should not be used to compare one automaker safety to another
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  because different companies collect information on crashes
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  in different ways. And if they had, like I was
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  saying before, a framework for all this stuff, the NHTSA, if
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  they know exact like they have a certain data point set that they
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  have to reach and if every automaker has that data point
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  set, everybody can be treated equally and fairly when it comes
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  to these reports. Here's another.
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  Brian Walker Smith, University of South Carolina law professor
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  who focuses on autonomous driving, said Tesla collects
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  real time crash data that other companies don't and likely
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  reports a far greater proportion of their incidents than other
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  automakers. It's true, 100% true.
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  They report everything, everything they can.
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  Other automakers possibly don't have as many data points because
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  one, Tesla's been doing this for a really long time.
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  They've been in the EV game forever.
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  Other automakers are just catching up Hyundai.
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  But like, there's no way they could write the same code that
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  the the test the crew can do because they just haven't been
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  doing it for long. Like they haven't been able to
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  maintain a code base that long or upgrade a code base that
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  long, or optimize a code base that long and implement new
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  features and new bugs, of course, which could cause
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  crashes. And the NHTSA just wants that
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  data so they can show people what happened.
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  I think that's, I mean, the other thing is like, do you do
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  most people trust the government with their data?
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  Probably not. But you know what?
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  It's not driving data. But everything I have on this
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  phone, I'm pretty sure the government has access to it.
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  Yours too. They can track wherever you are.
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  You ever notice that like wherever, whenever there's like
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  something that happens in the news, it's like they
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  triangulated the person's whereabouts with their phone
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  because the provider provided that data to the government.
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  So they're watching, you know, they can't watch you.
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  And if they're watching your phone, this thing has a, you
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  know, it's a pretty powerful computer in it, pretty easy to
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  handle. What about your giant car mega
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  computer in that thing handling all the data?
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  These are this is just triangulating a signal from like
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  tower A, tower B to tower C. Then when you're in the middle,
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  they know where where you move around, they know where you are.
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  So having all that data in your car while you're driving from
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  point A to point B to Point C, then somewhere between B&C, you
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  get in a wreck. The government gets sent that
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  data automatically before, maybe before Tesla even sees it or any
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  other auto manufacturer sees it before you see it, of course,
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  because you're just a bystander at that point because you're
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  just, you're in the thing. It's an autonomous vehicle.
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  So by that time, they already have the data through already
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  crunching the data. It's going through all their
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  steps. And then do they send it to
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  Tesla first? Do they send to the automaker
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  first? Do they send it to you first?
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  No, they keep it for themselves. Then they make a judgement about
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  who did what wrong and is that right?
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  I want to know. Let let me know in the comments
• 17:11
  down below. Whatever podcast platform you're
• 17:13
  on right now, wherever you're listening, if you're on YouTube,
• 17:15
  please give this video a thumbs up and give it a like because I
• 17:19
  want to know if you enjoy content like this.
• 17:20
  And also hit the subscribe button because it helps out the
• 17:23
  show tremendously. Also on any podcast platform,
• 17:25
  hit the sub button or the follow button because I want to know
• 17:28
  this and I want to have a discussion with you about this.
• 17:32
  So this is another thing that I want to show you.
• 17:35
  One last thing, Tesla also has also likely has a greater
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  frequency of crashes involving driver assistance technologies
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  because he has more vehicles on the road equipped with them and
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  drivers engaged systems more often.
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  That means the vehicles may may more often get into situations
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  that they aren't capable of handling.
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  So Tesla has more vehicles, so of course they have more
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  crashes. That's makes sense.
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  It's a lot of averages. It's very simple.
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  I don't know, I, I'm in, I'm in between this one.
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  This one's tough because I would, if something were to
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  happen to something that I love, somebody that I love, I want to
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  know what happened. But I also don't want people
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  tracking my car all the time. Like NHTSA shouldn't be tracking
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  your vehicle all the time or tracking you when you have a
• 18:27
  crash, you know, is that a, is that a thing that you agree
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  with? And that is that a freedom
• 18:33
  situation? Like is that a freedom argument
• 18:36
  that you can make? Like this is this is your
• 18:39
  freedom they're taking away. Let me know.
• 18:42
  All right, that's about it. Everybody take care of
• 18:46
  yourselves and each other. Remember to leave a comment,
• 18:48
  like subscribe on any podcast platform you are on right now.
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  Spotify, leave a comment, YouTube, leave a comment, leave
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  a review, five star review on any podcast platform you're on
• 18:59
  right now. If you like this topic right,
• 19:02
  take care of yourselves and each other.
• 19:03
  Like I said before, see you in the next one.