Latest / Brands, Beats & Bytes / Album 7 Track 14 - Authenticity Over Algorithm w/Jeff Crow

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Album 7 Track 14 - Authenticity Over Algorithm w/Jeff Crow · Brands, Beats & Bytes

• DC: Brand Nerds. Brand Nerds, Brent Nerds. We are back. Larry. After summer hiatus, summer hiatus, we are back with another new, smoking, fresh smelling good episode of Brands, Beats and Bytes Larry, it's good to be back, brother. LT: It's really good to be back. And what better way to start with the guest that we have today, D. DC: Oh yes, we got, we got a good one today. So, so, uh, Brand Nerds, you will often hear us talk about family members, and these are folks that either Larry or I, or both of us or Jeff have worked with. This is family today, Brand Nerds. We got a family member here, uh, with us. I'm gonna do two things here. First, if you were building the prototypical marketing person for today's era that would rise to become a senior executive, what qualities would they have? What experience might they have? They'd have some brand management experience so they'd understand how to build a brand. They'd have some tech experience so they'd understand how to leverage technology and data to build businesses. They'd understand properties and partnerships. So these are major properties and partnerships that businesses make in order to grow their businesses and brands. And they would also understand PE or private equity. If you had an executive with all four of those levels of experiences, you would have yourself a fantastic senior level executive. And that's what we have here today. But even more importantly, at least in my mind, uh, LT, is uh, if you were going to lay out the qualities of a great friend, what would those be? One of the elements would be the friend would be there for you. Really be there for you whenever you need them Larry. Whenever you really need them, they would be there Second, they would listen to you and not dispense judgment. They would really listen to you. You could bear your soul with them. They would not judge you. You know, you hear these things, Larry and Brand Nerds about safe spaces and safe places, like a real safe spaces when you got a friend, your boy, your girl, whoever, where you know, you could say anything and you know, they could say something to judge you, but they choose not to. LT: Mm-hmm. DC: That's the second. And then the third is you leave the conversation smarter and feeling better about yourself and your situation in life after you've spoken to them. It could be five minutes, it could be 50 minutes, it doesn't matter. There's a before and after you interact with them. Brand Nerds, that is our guest today. For me, he is one of my best friends in the world. And, uh, that will not change. There's nothing that he could do that would change the fact that he is going to be one of my best friends forever. In spite of the fact, Larry, sometimes he may not want to be my best friend. Okay. One of my best friends with that LT, let the peoples know who we have in the building today. LT: Oh, what a setup, DC We have Jeffrey Crow in the house today. Welcome, Jeff. Jeff Crow: Thank you. Good to be here. LT: Oh, we're thrilled to have you. So, Jeff is, you know, uh, I know you've listened to the show. We have to give the Brand Nerds your, uh, humble beginnings and to where you've gotten to today. So Brand Nerds here is another Coca-Cola brand management alum making great things happen where he is currently CEO of a tech company. Helping us hit all three Brands, Beats and Bytes, as DC was alluding to. But let's walk you through Jeff's really cool and successful journey. So, first, Jeff attends the University of Pennsylvania Wharton School, where he earns his Bachelor of Science in Economics with a concentration in marketing, followed by going to Duke University where he earns an MBA in Marketing. Okay, so Jeff, DC: Go Tarhills. Uh oh, I'm sorry. LT: I'm sorry. Yeah, no. Yeah, Jeff and I. Jeff Crow: Okay, thanks. It's been fun. Appreciate it. LT: It's, we, I didn't even, I was gonna say that school in Durham, but I, I, okay, I digress. Okay. So, Jeff's first real professional experience is at Unilever. In, in their US headquarters in, in New York City, where he works on great brands, Lever 2000 and Whisk Laundry detergent. As most of you know, Unilever is the biggest competitor to P&G and similar to P&G, Unilever is a great place to start a marketing career where you really learn brand management fundamentals. Alright, so after three very excellent years at Unilever, Jeff comes back to his hometown of Atlanta where he joins Coca-Cola in brand management, working on Nestea Fresca and Diet Coke before a promotion where he moves over to the sports marketing group as a senior manager where he is responsible for the relationships between the company and a few entities you may know the NBA, MLB, and the PGA. Additionally, as part of his responsibilities, Jeff completes and implements more than 100 league team and talent deals. The cool thing is that Jeff, with his brand chops, has a great purview for what is really going to be win-wins for all parties here, and he certainly makes that happen. Okay, D, we always talk about actions being larger than words, and to know how Jeff's work was received in sports marketing, simply go to the action of Jeff being promoted to senior brand management for Coca-Cola Classic. All right? Yes. We said this with previous guests, Michael B. Moore, who also worked on brand Coke. You do not get this assignment unless you are a star. So now Brand Nerds, we talk about this a lot. We all encounter forks in the road. And here's one for Jeff. He is doing great at Coca-Cola, been there for eight years, and now he gets an opportunity to join Win Products Inc. Where he becomes the COO Win is the company behind win high performance sports detergent. And Jeff is the first executive hired by company founders in the board of directors. Jeff manages all facets of the day-to-day operations for WIN products from launch to strategic sale, including the brand and marketing where they post 12 consecutive quarters of financial growth. After six years, Jeff then joins Central Garden and as the VP of the $200 million Grass Business Unit. In leading this team, Jeff establishes and formalizes brand architecture, digital footprint, partnership marketing strategy, and retail activation work, while also get this doubling earnings before interest in tax in just one year and is four years there drive four consecutive years of share gains. So Brand Nerds when you consistently post real results like that, there are more opportunities out there. And Jeff then joins EarthLink Internet as their CMO. And this is for Jeff's first CMO job, a key part of their executive leadership team that relaunches and revitalizes growth of the $1.2 billion telecommunications organization driven by this mon momentum. He is part of the team that consummate the strategic sale of the company. Now Jeff then joins PRGX Global Inc. As their Global CMO. PRGX delivers the broadest, uh, suite of source to pay services and solutions to identify and recover more value from finance and procurement data. Jeff has brought in to help the marketing part of digitally transforming the, the global publicly traded company from managed services to SaaS and analytics, which he and the team successfully accomplished, and he then joins core BTS as their CMO. Core BTS and NRI Company, uh, group company is a full service digital transformation consultancy, simplifying technical complexity, accelerating transformation, and driving real business outcomes for their clients. As a member of the executive leadership team, Jeff leads all communications, go-to market strategy, including branding, demand generation and partnership marketing, and he is to his team, successfully manage integration of three acquisitions. Late last year in his latest move, Jeff becomes CEO of Tap Mango. Tap Mango is a SaaS driven loyalty platform that empowers small and mid-sized businesses with the broad and sophisticated tools and acumen to compete with enterprise level competition outside of work. Jeff is an avid baseball fan, a pickleball enthusiast, an eager amateur cook, and is working to complete his Cicerone certification. I didn't even, I had to look that up. Jeff. Jeff resides in Atlanta, has two adult sons. Really looking forward to this one. Welcome to Brands, Beats and Bytes, Jeff Crow. Jeff Crow: Thank you, LT. I can almost hear my mother going, oh, Jeffrey, Sorry mom. LT: You gotta shout out mom's name now. Jeff. Jeff Crow: Absolutely. DC: What's her name? Mom's name. Jeff Crow: Oh, Marilyn. DC: Marilyn. Marilyn. Awesome. Hello, Marilyn. You did good with this one. You did good with this one. Alright, Crow. We are going to move to a section we call Get Comfy, and I'm gonna do something in this section. I don't think I've ever done LT: Uhoh DC: and Larry, I don't think I've ever done this. And we've got approaching 200 of these podcasts, uh, episodes, certainly more than one 50. So Crow typically what I will do is I will ask folks to talk about something that has to do with themselves, but this time I'm gonna ask you to talk about something that has to do with someone else whom we both know. And it's about growth, Brand Nerds, I don't talk about very often the kind of experiences that I've had in my corporate and personal life. It's been phenomenal. I'm touching wood here. I can't believe some of the experiences that I've blessed to have. Uh, one of them, uh, is, uh, I got a chance to, many, many years ago, do marketing with a, uh, with a legend. Wasn't a legend at the time that we met him, Jeff and I, but certainly became a legend later. And that's, uh, Kobe Bean Bryant, uh, Brand Nerds. The relationship between the Coca-Cola Company and the Sprite brand was managed directly by Jeff Crow. So Crow was the lead in our partnership, our, our company's partnership with the NBA. And then he was also the lead with all of the NBA talent that we had. So, not just Kobe Bean Bryan, but anyone that we worked with, with the NBA Jeff, uh, headed that relationship. And so, I know, I, I know my, this where I can hear my mom in my, in my ear now saying, Crow, uh, Baby, are you arriving at a point? Yes. I'm arriving at a point. I'm arriving at a point here, uh, brand nerds and, and crow. You Crow and me and Sarah. Sarah Smid or I, she's, her name is not really Smid Berg Smid, I think it's Denny now. Yeah. Is her, is her married names. We got a chance to see Kobe and his agent at the time, now president I think of basketball operations at the uh, Lakers, Rob Pelinka. We got a chance to see them grow when I say them, Kobe and Rob from Young Pups. And we were all young pups when we met. Yeah. To when they became iconic. And so my question to you, Crow is working so closely with Kobe and Rob and seeing that evolution of growth as business people and marketing people, what did you witness during that journey and what did you take away from that? Jeff Crow: Well, that's a great question. Um. A couple of things. Like Kobe was real. I mean, we were all kids, but Kobe was really a kid. Yeah. I mean, he, he was younger than certainly my oldest son now, and maybe younger than my younger son when we were, when we were all working together. Mm-hmm. And I, I don't think I'm stepping out to say there was an arrogance about him because he knew sort of at his core what he could be. And that wasn't the al always the easiest thing to deal with because you're dealing with a kid who's 22 years old, knows he's all that. Mm-hmm. Doesn't, doesn't hide. It, isn't really listening to a lot of people, including his parents and his agent in some ways when, when that comes around. That said, in the years we all worked together, and certainly in the years after we stopped working with him, where I was just a fan or an observer, we saw. Um, one thing which was maturity, which happens chronologically just as we get older. Yeah. But doesn't always happen from the inside perspective. And so Kobe, as I saw him speak up until the time of his passing, grew up from an arrogant kid who was uber talented to one of the best in what he, he did, which was play, play hoops. He also, if I'm not mistaken, won an e egot. Did he not like Emmy? Grammy? Emmy. Grammy, uh, Tony. Tony. I forgetting what, uh, Academy Award, like it's Oscar. He, he de he definitely won an Oscar. I don't know about the other ones, but he won the Oscar. Yeah. I'm pretty sure I, you can check me on that, but I'm pretty sure he won. He got, if not, he came close. Okay. And so the other thing, DC I'll tell you that. Absolutely had an impact on me, and I've tried to impact this on people that I work with and for, and, you know, in my family is there may have been other people in his time who were as smart as he was or as talented as he was. Mm-hmm. But nobody ever outworked him. Mm-hmm. And there's certain things you can control. There's certain blessings we're all given. Yep. We all have areas we can work on, but the one thing that's in our control is getting ourselves up off the couch and working at whatever our trade is. DC: Yep. LT: And he clearly, we made a, a award-winning commercial about it, right? DC: Yep. Right. Jeff Crow: We did, um, around All Star Weekend when I was here in Atlanta, um, and watching his work ethic on the court first, because that was his stock and trade, but even off the court and the way he had a thirst for knowledge. He was obeying his thirst, I guess, off the court, but Right. I was terrible. But it was there. DC: Well played. Well played. Jeff Crow: Yeah. Um, but he was interested in learning and there were times I remember, I, I forget what they call Houston's out in, in, uh, SoCal. Like it's the same restaurant group as Houston's here in Atlanta. Yep. Yep. But I think remember being at, in, in the Houston's restaurant out there at his request with you and Schmidberg, and I assume Pelinka as well. He was there. Yeah. We sat, yeah, we sat in a booth. He came and sat at the chair at the, turned it around and we just talked about the ads and activation we were gonna do around All Star Weekend when it was in Atlanta. And he had his own ideas, some of which were really interesting and some of which probably weren't. And we had that give and take. And as much as he was set on, this is what I think we should do, he listened. To each one of us. Mm-hmm. Um, you as the, the marketing brand expert, Sarah, as the, here's how that'll translate to advertising expert and then me as here's how that activation plays on in the marketplace. You know, um, persona, and I don't remember, you know, where we started and where we got to during that conversation, but I remember distinctly walking back to the hotel after that going, this guy came prepared. Yeah. This guy came with intelligent ideas and this guy came into a meeting where he shared his point of view, but even though he is sort of a young, arrogant buck on the court mm-hmm. He sat back and listened to people who had a little bit either more or different experience than he did. And so, look, it's, we all wanna mature and learn and get better as we get older. Um. We all should work as hard as we possibly can, and everybody has different capacities and different ambition, but then we all also need to be open to learning from people who are deeply experienced in areas where we're not deeply experienced. So, um, I have not thought about that in quite a while. DC it's a great question, but those are the things I take from Kobe. DC: Wow. Larry. LT: Yeah, I wanna add something. This is great conversation. You guys. Um, uh, DC knows this, Jeff. Uh, we've done some work where we've, um. We've, we've identified for consumers seven connection points where people connect with all kinds of people, but certainly celebrities and athletes. And we use an acronym I leaps I is for intelligence. L is for, uh, looks, E is for effort, right? Um, A is for attitude P where there's two P's, one for, one for for performance, one is personal bond. It could come from my hometown where they like the same things as me. And then the last one is style. And I think when you guys did that ad, I think Kobe was looked at, especially with all the stuff that was going on with Shaq. He was, you know, there was a love hate thing. There's a lot of people, a lot of fans who looked at him as arrogant and saw, saw sort of the, the maybe darker side of what, what he was about, right? Um, and again, this is perception. When you guys did that ad, um, the number one thing that out of those seven connection points that that fans value the most is effort. And so that's core and genuine to who Kobe is. And you guys did that authentically. And dare I say, when people saw that ad and saw a lot of the things, I think that reconfigured in people's minds. A lot of what their connection was was to Kobe. 'cause they also saw it was very authentic. Oh yeah. And they saw, man, this guy works his ass off. It's the opposite of the practice Alan Iversson thing. And I always hated that for Alan Iverson. I love Alan Iverson. That that came off that way because nobody worked harder on the court than Alan Iverson did. And again, understanding that it's the number one thing connection that consumers want to see is effort. And so when you guys did that, I think that recalibrated a lot of fans perceptions and connections for Kobe. DC: Interesting. That's interesting. Uh, Crow any reaction to that? 'cause I've got a couple that I want to share with you and Larry and the Brand Nerds. Jeff Crow: So just one which is you bring up the Kobe Shaq, you know, turmoil back in the day. Right. Um, and. I never did a deal with Shaq. Um, and Shaq's agent is one of my dearest friends. That's right. And we laugh and we're still friends today and we laugh that we had a lot of conversations about a lot of different things, but it was, it was just, it was either never the right time or never the right fit or, you know, whatever the case may be. But listening to you LT talk about it is the, the dichotomy between Kobe and Shaq is really pretty interesting. So Shaq was likable, uber talented. Freely admits now he is like, I didn't, I didn't work that hard. Right, that's right. Just bigger and stronger than everybody. Right. It's not that he wasn't driven. Certainly he was. Right. And I've heard, you know, Kobe interviews saying, well if, if Shaq had your work ethic and Kobe's, like he would've been the best, best player ever. Right. That said, today Shaq bust his butt on a big Yes. LT: That's ironic. Jeff Crow: Yes. And, and, and, and it's, look, he's really smart and really driven and really ambitious and he still leverages all that makes him authentic. Right. Like larger than life, literally and figuratively. And his persona today, because of that hustle and that effort is probably at an all time high. LT: Totally agree. That's ironic, isn't it? Yeah. And also he knows his brand. I've talked, I've heard him talk. He, my brand is fun. That's what he said. Hundred percent. And that is totally authentic to him. Right. And really, and and people feel that. They know people smell when, when shit isn't genuine. And that's genuine. Jeff Crow: And, and he is one of the rare celebrities that can endorse a massive range of stuff. Yes. And it still feels genuine. LT: It does. I agree. DC: A rare, a rare talent. And he picked up, he being Shaq, the work ethic later, by the way, Brand Nerds looked this up. Shaquille O'Neal, his agent at the time, I don't know if he's still, his agent, is the same agent at the time of an, uh, Andre Agassi, Perry's, his name is that right, Crow? Jeff Crow: Perry. Perry Rogers. DC: Yeah. Perry Rogers. Perry Rogers. Going back to Crow's, uh, comments about, uh, Kobe three things. The first is you noticed that Crow said Houstons. Brand Nerds. We, Crow knows this, could take talent to any restaurant that they would want to go to in any city in the world. No cost implications at all. If he would've wanted to go to what was the equivalent of Catch at the time, there was no Catch at that time. But you guys, for contemporary purposes, you know, catch, we would've taken him to Catch. But he did not. He did not want to go to Catch. He, uh, he wanted to go to Houston's. He was a Houston's dude. And so when we would take him out, sometimes it would be Houston's. And interestingly enough, Crow and I typically go to Houstons once every year, year and a half. We love Houstons. And so we did the same thing with Kobe. That's number one. Number two, work ethic. When we, uh, did this, uh, commercial that you're referencing, uh, uh, lt and we actually did a campaign around it, uh. Part of the concept was there was a weight room, and in this weight room, it was a rack set up and there were these newspaper clippings on the wall in front of the weight rack that was saying things that were negative about Kobe. He shot air balls in the playoffs, which he did. And all of these statements about these two young, and we had these all on the wall. By the way, spike Lee shot these commercials and his company shot these commercial what, what was it? Spike Lee or the, or the, uh, the, the brothers, I can't remember. It was either Spike Lee or the brothers. The, the Hughes brothers. I don't remember the Hughes Brothers or Spike Lee. I'm sorry if I'm not getting this right. Hughes Brothers or Spike Lee in any event. So, uh, what happens brand nerds is when you're doing a commercial like that, you have set. Designer people, they come and they set up a, a weight rack that looks real, but it's fake. And then talent comes in. And this case, it's Kobe Bryant. You spray the talent with a bottle so that it appears as if they're working. No, no, no. Crow knows this. Yeah. His Kobe's trainer, who was MJs trainer by the way, comes to set, sets up a real workout situation. Kobe comes in and we're like, yeah, they're gonna spray him. No, no, no. He doesn't actual workout. That's his real sweat on his body. Like he, he was really doing that. So like the, the, the, the work ethic this guy had was like beyond. It was beyond. And then Crow, I don't even remember this, but we were down pre-pro meeting or something. So Kobe and Rob are there, Kobe's doing wardrobe stuff. And, and they come in and I don't remember who came in. Someone's looking a little trepidatious. They come in, might have been Smithberg and they say, uh, um, Kobe wants to wear, uh, this, this blue t-shirt. So they, they bring us the blue T-shirt and we're looking at it and it had a Navy Seals it, had a Navy Seals thing on it. And we were like, like, we can't, we can't, like he really, really wants to wear this. This is how much this dude was into working. He wanted to, he wanted to have a Navy Seals t-shirt on set. Of course, we did not do that Crow. We did not do that. Jeff Crow: But, but to be fair, it, it was, it was probably less about the Navy Seals and more about the fact that we weren't putting Pepsi blue in a Oh yeah. DC: No, we not. It was probably more that, yeah, it, it was, it probably was more of that. Thank you Crow. You you remembering it more accurately now than I Last thing and then we're gonna go on here. This notion about his arrogance, his confidence. Um, there was one meeting Larry and Brand Nerds, me, Smidberg, Crow we're in. With Kobe and, uh, and Rob, and we're going over the campaign every year. We'd meet with them. Crow would set it up, we'd go out to la we'd talk with them about the year coming up. So this is one of those things. So he comes in and he's got sunglasses on you remember this Crow? Yep. Okay. He's got sunglasses on, so we're kind of going through the whole thing. He, he keeps the fucking sunglasses on. He's not taking 'em off. Okay. LT: I was hoping you'd tell the story by the way we're going through it. DC: Okay. And I, I wonder what Crow's memory is of this. This is mine. So we stop. 'cause obviously the vibe is off and he's not really seeming like he's into. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So he starts to realize you, yo, yo, Kobe, and, uh, you know, you. You good bro? Like you okay with what's going on here because we don't know you. You got your glasses on. Like we don't know what's happening. And so then he sort of loosens up, takes the glasses off and he engages. I thought that was an example of his maturity Crow. What was going through your mind when he was sunglasses up? Jeff Crow: So the beauty of working with you and Sarah for those couple of years, whatever it was, is that we all liked, respected each other very much. Yeah. And then understood sort my roles this your role's that, your role's that Yeah. And we deferred to each other. DC: That's right. Jeff Crow: So, so Kobe is, is a, you know, a personable guy, Hey, nice to see you, nice see you, whatever. Like, that was all fine. I remember. Um, and I remember like looking at you guys like what is his song? Whatever. But. But, and this is the beauty of DC right? Like if I had said, Hey, Kobe, listen, we're having a meeting here, and like, we're, we're not sure how you're reacting, and would you mind taking the sunglasses off? I'm guessing he may or may not have done it, but he would've been like, he's your sunglasses, you know, corp, you know, corporate suit dude. Right. Which is, you know, was my role. If, if Sarah had done it, if same thing, Hey, Kobe, Kobe, we're thinking about some things, you know, can I see your face? He would've done it and, and probably would've been a little patronizing. But you doing it was the respect he had for you in building, knowing that our investment in Sprite was also building his brand. It, it probably, who knows, you know, why he came in that way, right? Yeah. Like we all have bad mornings and you know, we're thinking about different things, but when you asked him. Something in him clicked and he took them off and the meeting shifted in a positive way. I've thought about that in years, but I distinctly remember it. DC: Cool Crow. So Brand Nerds. There are stories that our guests have that Larry has, that I have that you won't hear anywhere else in the world because no, only a few people are in these rooms. And this dude you're looking at in front of you right now, uh, Larry and brand nerds, if you are, if this is gets part up, cut up in the promotion. This dude Jeff Crow, I trusted with everything, and there is no way, and by the way, he trusted me and he and I trusted Sarah. If we didn't trust each other, we could not have handled a situation like that with, at the time, a mega global icon. You are not telling that dude to take his fucking sunglasses off and get into the meeting. There's no way you're doing that. But we all knew something needed to happen, and we all played our positions to Crows Point, and we did it. So this is the first ever. What's pop? I mean, excuse me. No, what's popping? Um, Get Comfy. You Get Comfy. That we've had like this, bro. Thank you brother. Thank you. Jeff Crow: Of course. No, that was awesome. Thank you. Thank you. DC: All right, here we go. Larry, anything else? LT: Just la Yeah, just the last point before you shift in. Yeah. Into the, into the, uh, next segment. Um, the, the fact that you did that, and if you didn't do that correctly, this is the point. Mm-hmm. That shit could've gone off the rails. Really? Oh, yeah. It would've gone left badly, right? Yeah. And if you, maybe even if you didn't do anything. Yeah. So this is the point, brand nerds that, you know, um, we encounter these things in moments and you, you gotta feel it and know what the best thing is and, and, and do the right thing. Go ahead D. Cool. DC: So just 10, 10. Thank, I'm glad you said that, Larry. Just 10 seconds. I don't care who you are, what level you of success you have achieved. You're not, you're not gonna disrespect my teammates. Yep. And Crow and Smid Berg were my teammates. And I felt that that was bordering on disrespect. And I had, I had to go, and by the way, the way they were looking at me and each other, we all knew something had to happen. Right? Something had to happen. So it wasn't like I broke in and, and Crow and were like, oh my goodness, I can't believe he did that. They, they were like, yo, dude, what the fuck? Jeff Crow: And now it was, it was before smartphones too. If it wasn't, we definitely would've been texting each other. That's right. Yeah, we would've. DC: All right, here we go. Five questions. All right, Crow, five questions. Larry and I go back and forth until we arrive at five questions in total. I'm in the batter's box. I'm not Otani I like Otani, but I'm in the batter's box. I'm, I'm not Soto. I'm not snagging thi. Alright, here we go. Uh, here's the, here's the first question. What was your first branding experience that you can recall? Where you engage with this brand and you loved engaging with it so much Crow that you lost track of time. You just love this thing. You were into it so much, it felt like a first love to you. What was this brand or brand experience for you? Jeff Crow: So it's such a cool question and I gave it a lot of thought. Cool. And I would say I'm eight years old-ish. Right. Um, I'm watching TV on a Saturday morning. Um, it's before cable. Mm-hmm. Um, so it's Saturday morning cartoon time, right? Mm-hmm. Like catered it. My audience, the dial on the tv, right? Mm-hmm. Like 90 button on dial, on tv, and I saw a commercial when Walt Disney came on, you know, in between Super Friends or, you know, whatever. I was watching at the time and talked about Disney World. Ah, and I was, I, I remember getting up off the couch, like drawn into this commercial, um, like a, like a, you know, moth into a light, right? Sit, sat and listened to him talk about Fantasyland and Tomorrowland and mm-hmm. Yo, and that, that bred into like, I wanted to learn more about this magical place that I didn't know existed. And ultimately, um, it led into, like, this was before PowerPoint. You hear about kids making PowerPoint presentations when they want a dog or something to their parents, right? Um, I, I remember. Talking to my parents and saying, when are we going? I have grandparents who lived in Florida, so we would go to Florida for family trips. I'm like, DC: mm-hmm. Jeff Crow: Next time we go to Florida, can we go to this magical place? Right. Called Disney World. Right. And I still have some memories of that trip. And this was like, I remember 20,000 leagues under the sea and the Swiss family, Robinson Tree house. Like stuff that would not fly today. Yeah. That was just telling a story and immersing a kid, me in a world. And so that was, that was sort of fundamentally, I think the first, I look back on it, the first brand that ever sort of sucked me in. Um, and you think about the tools they had to do it with back then. Mm-hmm. Right? We're talking tv, newspaper, print, radio, billboards, like that's it. LT: Right. Jeff Crow: And they were still. The place was special enough, the story and the magic and the brand were special enough that they could leverage it and develop a bond. Like, I mean, I haven't been to Disney in years. My kids are older than that, but, but I still love what they do and how they do it. LT: You took me back there, Jeff. You know, like I, I, I think that that's what great brands do is they make that special connection and it's an emotional one. And to think of it, you know, Walt Disney wasn't the youngest dude when, when that commercial ran. Right? Like, and, and, um, and for that, to have that impact, um, we always talk about on, on our show, the emotional connections between brand and consumer. And for you to remember that so vividly and let's face it that ha that permeated what you did then, but also with your kids and, and the whole relationship that one has with a brand and, um. And so I lo I love that story that you told and, Jeff Crow: and it's funny as I was thinking about it, um, the way we market today and the tools we have are so different, right? So i'll tell you a story about a brand that has resonated with me most recently, which is after I work out, I like to have a protein shake. I think it's a good, a good practice. And I like to switch up my protein shakes every four to six months. I get sick of the flavors I wanna LT: Yep. Jeff Crow: You know, get different benefits. And so I was just doing some Googling a month ago, two months ago, whatever it was, but you know, this kind of protein and this whatever, just basics. And I got inundated with a bunch of stuff and I was like, all right, I'll figure it out later. Like, didn't make a decision mm-hmm. Until I came back to my phone 20 minutes later to see an ad. Shout out to, I don't have any idea how big this brand is, but I'm a big fan. I see an ad for a protein powder. Targeted at busy middle aged dads who are, you know, trying to get back in shape. Like it, it took everything I had put into, into my search and said, oh, well look, here's, here's our consumer and here's our, so the, the, the name of the, the protein powder literally is called Dad Fuel. Wow. As soon as I saw the name, I looked at him, just take my money just to my credit card. Here you go. And be as much as you have. Right? Um, so it's amazing the transition and how well companies of any size today can find the consumer that makes sense for them. DC: Great story. I love that. Uh, Crow. I'll say this quickly and then we'll move to question number two. BJ Bueno is a friend of ours here at Brands Beats and Bites. Jeff Crow: I listened to his podcast with you yesterday. DC: Oh, did you really? Seriously. That, that's my boy. He's super smart. As you, as you know, Croy, I mean, uh, Crow, especially listening to it in his, uh, week. Hi. His some there. Sometimes it's weekly. Sometimes it comes on every, a couple of days. During the same week, he's got a subscription where he will send you marketing information, his perspective on things. So one of his most recent ones this week, he, he asked a question in there is, if your brand were gone, if it disappeared, would you be missed? I go back to Disney. When you saw Mr. Walt Disney on that screen and you were drawn to it in your words, not mine, like a moth to light. If someone has said to the 8-year-old Jeff Crow, "Hey dude, I know your grandparents are in Florida." But your Disney world is going away. You're never gonna go to this, you're never gonna see it. I think you would've been bawling like a baby. Okay. Jeff Crow: And it's a great point because Yes, yes, a hundred percent I would've been, and as much as I'm enjoying my dad fuel subscription, if somebody took it away from me, I'd find a replacement. DC: Yes, you would replacement. Yeah. Yes you would. But maybe, maybe over time you wouldn't. All right. Second question. LT: Yep. Alright, Jeff, So, who is hat or is having the most influence on your career? Jeff Crow: So I sort of bifurcated this one. Um, and I suspect this is a pretty common answer, but maybe for an uncommon reason. And it's, it's a bunch of old bosses. So we all grew up the Coca-Cola company, and I think I, I, I can safely say that we all probably had some really great bosses and some not so good bosses. Oh yeah. You can safely say that. Uh, and we're not gonna pull out any names... DC: more of the latter than the former. Jeff Crow: Okay. Um, but so Todd Putman and Allison Lewis are two of the best bosses I ever had in brand management at Coca-Cola or anywhere else. I still consider them friends and mentors. They were two of my first bosses in my career that, that. Showed some confidence in me, which just made me wanna work harder and teach them and, and develop more. And when I, and, and I still reach out to them from time to time when I've got a question about whatever that I'm dealing with in my career. But, and this isn't always true, they are, well, I'll, I'll hold that thought. I'll hold that thought. 'cause the second group, by the way, are two CEOs I worked for as their CMO, uh, Joe Ezer at EarthLink, and Paul Lidsky at Core BTS. Joe and Paul are both deeply experienced CEOs, um, you know, in, in various ways. And I never aspired to be a CEO. Like, it was never like, well, when I turn 50, I want to like, like it was like if it happened, it happened. Mm-hmm. But those two guys taught me. The, the value of, of feeling empowered, very similar to Todd and Allison, but at a different level. They hired me as their CMO and said, marketing's on you. You tell me what you need. We're gonna make this work. And by the way, I'm not a marketer, so if you tell me you need this, then we're just gonna go do it. And I don't think it's a coincidence that those two guys who had faith in marketing as a lever for the business are also the two CEOs that I was fortunate enough to work for who drove really nice, successful exits, one public and one private. And so now as a CEO and brand, you know. Uh, person. I look back on those four people and say, what do they have in common? Well, they all put some faith in me, which I appreciate, but they empowered me to do what I thought was right. I certainly wasn't always perfect. Um, all four of them are just really good people as well. Mm-hmm. And sometimes the humanity of being a boss isn't obvious. Like we've all worked for bosses who were really smart and maybe not all that, that high on the, the EQ part, but those four folks put some faith in me, taught me the power of that, of, of empowering people and letting them, you know, have some, uh, some slack in the rope to go make their own mistakes. And then. Being just good, solid human beings and being will, being willing and able to, to teach and impart lessons. And so I, you know, I've been fortunate to work with and for, and have really good direct reports over the course of my career, but those four stand out. DC: Woo. I know two, I know two of them. Todd and Allison, some of the best people you will ever meet. Jeff Crow: Amen. LT: I love this D, don't have anything to add. That was awesome, jeff. DC: All right, girl, you've had a lot of successes. You've even worked for a company called Win WIN, literally. Literally, we don't want to know about any of those. For this question, we want to know about your biggest F Up, the danky, stinky Steamy F Up. Yeah. And more importantly, what you learn from it. Jeff Crow: Uh, so there's, there's plenty. Um, and there's a couple that I would sort of put together. Um, and I would argue that if any marketer at the stage of the career that we're in doesn't have any F ups, then they're not, they're not pushing hard enough. Right. LT: Agreed. Jeff Crow: Um, but these two, uh, one is a CMO and one as just, uh, you know, sort of general manager. Um, my F up was, was one of probably arrogance and misreading my audience. Hmm. And so, um, I joined, I'm not gonna call particular, well, maybe I will. Um, I, I joined an organization that was, um. At least overtly trying to digitally transform and marketing was gonna be part of that journey. Mm-hmm. And I was the one tapped to, to lead that part of the journey. Um, and it was a 40 or 50-year-old company that had been sales driven for a long time and mm-hmm. It, I guess the lesson I learned is when that little voice in the back of your head tells you something, you should listen to it, because two weeks, maybe three, into that job, I called the partner at Korn Ferry who had placed me there and said, Hey, I, I know this search was going on for a long time. Help me understand why they picked me, and like, why you, you put me up there and as any good recruiter said, you, well, you have this skill and this background, and they liked this and whatever. There's a reason they picked me. And then as any good recruiter should do, looked at me, we're having breakfast, looked at me across the table and go. W Why do you ask? Yeah, I said, because it's a terrible fit. Right? Like it's, oh, wow. It's, they don't, they don't want what I have to, to bring, and it's not valued by the organization. And I just, I'm, I'm gonna fight the good fight. Like I'm, you know, I've been here three weeks or whatever it's been. Yeah. But I kind of knew that going in, but I was either too blind, too arrogant, or, um, maybe too much of a believer in the power of marketing mm-hmm. That when I looked at it, I'm like, oh, I can make this work. There's a lot of, there's a lot of upside here. DC: Mm-hmm. Jeff Crow: Um, spoiler, I did not make it work. I did, uh, lasted a couple years, which was, you know, not, not for nothing. And, you know, had kind of won a few battles, but certainly didn't win the war. And then likewise, I, I, uh, I. When I was at Central Guard and Pat and I was leading a, you know, a division there and things were going really well, we were innovating left and right and, you know, and driving good gains and, you know, putting together brands. Um, my team and I sort of, uh, put together a, a next generation retail and sales strategy mm-hmm. And presented it to a gentleman who was CEO at the time. And he, his reaction, which we thought was gonna be dazzled by our brilliance was, and I quote looking at me 'cause I was the, you know, the leader of the pack there looking at me going, Jeff, do you know how we make money in this company? And I said, Ooh Levi, I do. Like, I think we, you know, my track record sort of, you know, speaks for itself. He said, but you're advocating to do things where will make less money. And I said. No, we will sell less inventory, but we will ultimately, if the projections are correct, make more money. And so, uh, again, spoiler, that piece of innovation never saw the light of day. And that was, uh, I would guess the beginning of the end of my time at that company because I realized I could only push the envelope so far. And, um, anyway, that was so, so my, my lessons are don't overstate your importance in any organization. Read the room and understand the, the sort of cultural norms. And, um, if the little voice in the back of your head is telling you something's off, something's probably off. LT: Ooh, I love this. DC: Great. That's great. LT: That's great. Do you have something to follow or should I go first here? DC: I, I do not have any, anything to follow? No. LT: Okay. I, I, Jeff, I have to share something, and I think this is really important for the Brand Nerds to hear. Cool. I too, at a younger age, I can almost take the, what you said, arrogant, thinking really highly of what marketing does and what, by the way, I can do, and, um, I made the same kind of mistake I knew like in a couple weeks, like, oh shit, this is bad. Like, you know, and, and you know it quickly when you're in that kind situation, Brand Nerds. Um, and so you try and make the best of it. Um, but sometimes it may make sense to backtrack on yourself. Uh, I, I never, I was always a head, you know, keep going, but sometimes you need to take that deep breath. But the other point is, Jeff and DC I don't want, this is what I wanna say too. I think part of. Let's say our success individually was having the confidence that borders that can become arrogant and it's finding that fine tune of what, when does confidence and come into cockiness and arrogance and being able to check yourself from those two. Because I, I know from, I'll speak for myself that I think some of the things that I and my teams achieved were, was, was because I had that bullheaded approach that I can make this work. Mm-hmm. So finding that fine line is really hard. Jeff Crow: Well, it's totally agree with you. And it's not to say that the bull and the China approach bull and the China shop approach always works, but you have to know the arena that you're setting foot into. LT: Exactly. Jeff Crow: And some arenas are, are, you know, open to to change and some arenas are not. LT: That's right. And DC I'll shut up in a second, but this is important. I think that what the three of us obviously have in common is Coca-Cola. And as the stock, uh, ticker goes as KO and what, what I think you don't realize as much you when you're there is that. Coca-Cola is all about marketing. DC and I have talked about this culturally, even today, they're, they're not as good, let's be honest. But it's still culturally, but it Jeff Crow: fools you a little bit as an employee to think that every company is that way. LT: It does. Exactly. That's exactly what I was gonna say, Jeff. It does, and, and what happens is 99% of the companies out there are culturally finance driven, sales driven, whatever driven. They're not marketing driven. Yeah. So we, we came from there thinking we can change the world. But to Jeff's point, if you, if the room is reading that they're not gonna enable you. And Jeff was lucky to work for the, for the two great CEOs, Joe and Paul, I think were the, their names, right, that were smart enough to know what they didn't know and say, we got a great marketing here. Have at it Jeff. That's rare. And so that's very difficult. Brand nerds. If you are in situations that are not marketing culturally, um, you know, where marketing is really important, it can be a really difficult slog. Jeff Crow: Totally agree. DC: Um, I'm, um, I'm taken aback by this one Crow. Thank you for your vulnerability. Yes, most of us have been exactly where you are. I've not heard one story where someone said that little voice chatted. To them and told them, Hey, I don't think this is gonna work. And they say, and guess what? It worked out great. That's right. I, I don't think I've heard that. Alright, next question, Larry. LT: Okay, so next question. Jeff, you're so good for this question, uh, given where, uh, where your career is right now. So when you're thinking about, um, technology and marketing, the confluence of those, um, can you tell us where you think marketers should lean in or best leverage tech? Or you can go to areas that you think they should, they should be leery or simply avoid? Jeff Crow: Uh, yeah. It's, it's sort of the, you know, the current marketer's dilemma. And so every marketer, a marketer today has a different skillset than a marketer of our generation when they were coming outta school, no doubt. Mm-hmm. When I was at Unilever, I would get Nielsen numbers in a four, four inch binder that would get delivered. Direct once a month, right? Right. How we knew we were doing well or we weren't doing well, obviously it's, it's much more instantaneous. So the council I give to marketers today is lean into tech. Wherever tech enables your journey, but the story, the brand, the fundamentals of what makes your service or product or whatever it is, different, better and special are more important than the tech. And so the, you know, the company that I have the privilege of leading right now, tap Mango is it's a SaaS platform. It is a digital enabled loyalty pro platform. So it is the digital personification of what was once a, you know, go to your sandwich shop, buy 10 sandwiches, get a, you know, get a free one, right? And now we leverage data and automation and analytics to target or, or to, to leverage a person's buying behavior and target them with offers that make sense, that ultimately help drive loyalty, repeat, you know, more transactions, better transactions, et cetera. It's like any store owner can put their own loyalty program together with a punch card, but it's not gonna be as effective, it's not gonna be as efficient. There's fraud issues. And so it's the, that, that store owner may know that they make the best sandwich in town, but unless they're leaning into technology, they're not gonna be able to, to drive their business to the highest heights it can accomplish. Same too, for marketing. You gotta put that story together, that, that brand architecture together, but then finding the tools technologically driven, whether it's AI or others that can help get it to the right person at the right time in the right context is. What's the difference between, is the difference between, you know, sort of mediocrity and, and success. LT: Very interesting. And Jeff, if I understand it correctly too, what you guys are doing is, you know, you're able to group, um, a lot of different businesses. Do you do it together or like, if you're, because what I'm thinking is consumers are hit with, you have the Subway app, the McDonald's app. Well, and, and at some point you go enough, I I, I, I have too many apps on my, on my phone here. And it feels like from a consumer standpoint, you're in, you're going to help people handle that and be able to also shop locally and feel good about it. Is that right? Jeff Crow: So, so, yes. But, um, and so, yes. Um, the, you know, the apps are more of a, of a, and we, you know, provide some of our merchants with apps if that, if. You know, if they're a QSR and they're interested in online ordering, we handle that service as well. But this is a business that was founder lo, founder owned, founder led, founder developed, and has been in the loyalty business for 10 years. Okay. So while our technology has evolved and our technology is, is as good as, if not better than any other technology out there, where we shine is we understand loyalty and we understand what engenders a customer to a merchant. And it's just like the story, the, the best technology in the world without the right story is worthless. The, the best technology in the world, in our, in our world. Without the right loyalty guidelines and truths is also pretty worthless. Yep. Love it. D, you see anything else? LT: Go to the next question if you may. DC: I'm ready for the next question. Crow, what are you most proud of, brother? LT: Hmm. Um, you know, I, I'm, I'm closer to the end of my career than the beginning of it. Um, and so I look back on it and I'm proud that I never prioritized my career over my family. Um, family always came first and I learned that from my parents. You know, my dad's a retired physician and he worked harder than, you know, I think anyone I've I've ever known, but he didn't miss my stuff or my sister's stuff, and I didn't miss my two son's stuff growing up, and I still don't miss their stuff. Like what, whatever it is. The stuff has evolved, you know, between 13 and and 23 for each one of 'em, and that's important because sort of, well, what's the ROI on that? The ROI is that I raised or helped raise two really good human beings who. Are passionately pursuing their dreams. Um, neither one of them have taken the easy expected path. Mm-hmm. But there's so much beauty in seeing someone who you believe in Chase after what they really want, that I could have, you know, five more private equity exits. And though all those would pale in comparison to the pride that I feel watching my oldest stage manage a Broadway show. And my youngest, you know, live out his dream in the front office of a MLB team. Wow. What's your son's name? Jeff. Shout him out. Uh, Tyler is the stage manager and uh, Evan works in amateur scouting for the New York Mets. Awesome. That's awesome. DC: That's nice. Uh, we don't have time for a story, uh, but I'm gonna give a little bit of it now. Of a visit that Jeff, um, and Evan made to New York to see Tyler. Uh, he, uh, because he's a stage manager, he's typically not on the stage, but he happened to find himself on stage when both Jeff and uh, and Evan were in the audience. And what should have been a very wonderful experience for Tyler turned out to be something where he had to, uh, uh, exhibit enormous amounts of discipline as both his brother and his father were laughing uncontrollably, Tyler being on stage unexpectedly. But we'll go into that at a different time. That's a true LT: story. DC: We're going that a different time. Alright. Nice. That's, that's it, brother. We're done with the five questions. LT: We are, we are. Okay. So how many did DC: I get right? Uh. We're still grading. Okay. Fair enough. LT: He's a tough grader, Jeff. I'm, yeah. Oh, I know. Through those. I know. All right, so we're going to the next session. What's popping? What's popping? D What's popping? Jeff? DC: What's popping Jeff? LT: This is, as you know, our chance to shout out. Shout down. We're simply air something happening in around marketing today that we think is good fodder for discussion. And I think you have one for us. Jeff Crow: I do. So look, all of us have worked in, um, in businesses where we've used, you know, athletes or celebrities as endorsers. DC: Mm-hmm. Jeff Crow: And, um, that's a, you know, tried and true age old strategy. It certainly evolved over time. Um, though I would argue that when, you know, when we would, uh, either select a, a celebrity to approach or look at how we could activate that celebrity with whatever brand we were talking about there, there was a ton of work done around. You know, how does this brand align with this brand and what are we, what borrowed imagery are we trying to get from this? And, and, and not say that every, every, you know, sort of celebrity endorsement we ever did was, was perfect, but more worked than, didn't work. Mm-hmm. Correct. So when I look at the landscape of marketing today, the celebrity piece, I'm gonna put off to the side for a minute and I'm gonna come down to influencers. DC: Mm-hmm. Jeff Crow: I understand that influencers, when we're building a brand, serve a purpose. They're driving visibility. It's almost like buying a CPM, right? LT: Right. Jeff Crow: Um, you're, you're, you're just trying to get clicks and eyeballs and likes and engagement. But nothing burns me more than a marketer that when I see some influencer, we'll just leave it as an influencer who is plugging product or place, or brand x. Doesn't know what that is, doesn't really care, doesn't like, they're just, they're cashing their check. Right, right. Yeah. And, and I don't know which, I'm more angry about the influencer. I mean, how could I, you know, I can't really cast dispersions to them. They're, it's their job, right? They, they this, Hey, pay me X and I'll do y. Right? It's a, it's a problem solution, but that is just lazy brand management right there to say, well, if we get this person to do it, this may go viral. And it's just, you can't swing for the fences every time. And I'm a big believer in that particular, uh, venue or in that particular arena that there has to be some, some connection, some authenticity in order for it to work. LT: Love this. D, what are you thinking? DC: Oh, this is juicy. This is, this is Juicy Crow. It comes down to something rather simple to me that I believe has happened in marketing over the last 10 years and accelerated over the last five. Unfortunately, our marketing community has been seduced by algorithms over authenticity. LT: Oh, a doubts over authenticity. So true. DC: When I think about YouTube or other content based places, they are like stages and marketers have learned to focus on the stage. That's the algorithm. How do we find the right stage to show our stuff? That's where the algorithm comes in. This is, this is Crow while you, while you got dad's protein or whatever that thing is called. Yeah. The algorithm is what brought it to you. No doubt. The issue is that. The way the branding game really works when you're not a lazy marketer is this authenticity over algorithms. Beyonce just, uh, concluded her tour last week in Vegas where she brought out her sisters and Destiny Childs, so the world got a chance to see Destiny Childs Destiny's Child. The group that disbanded in 2006 that Beyonce grew up in, on the stage in Las Vegas at the final show of her, I think 36 Show World Tour Cowboy Carter Chitlin Circuit tour. I didn't go. I've heard this thing is fantastic. So she had a stage called Las Vegas and she's had this stage all over the world, but it was Beyonce on stage. Authentic. The authentic Beyonce. It was the authentic Destiny's Child singing their songs. Now imagine for a moment now, Crow and LT and Brand Nerds. It's gonna be hard for you to imagine somehow. Beyonce says before she brings out, um, Michelle, and, um, I can't remember the other young lady's name. I'm, I'm really sorry you all, please don't kill me, beehive. Uh, and she said before coming out, Hey, DC can you step out on stage and do a number? Okay, disaster. Because while I would've had all the eyeballs from the stage, the algorithm, I would've had nothing to say or sing that really mattered. And this is the issue with what you said about the influencers. Yeah, you can, you can have all the influencers, all the eyeballs and all the algorithms you want, but when you get them on that stage and it's time to sing with authenticity. They can't do it 'cause they don't believe in the brand, they don't believe in the product. And people like us and those that are younger than us, they can smell a fake. They can smell it. So I love this. It also makes me very upset when I see it, but then I go for the influencer. Good on you. Make as much money as you can. Make as much money as you can. LT: Exactly. Well I I think Larry, I think we all agreed that you could, that the consumer smells when it's not authentic so quickly. Yes. And I would actually argue, yes, good for the influencer in the short term, but if you, depending on who you are and if you're in a situation where you can have a longer career of influencing, as soon as you have a couple of these negative things happen, that career's gonna be a lot shorter. Uh, and so I think it's actually imperative for the influencers if they're thinking long term. That instead of getting the quick buck to, you know, pedal something that you A, don't care about or b know nothing about, um, that's gonna actually be a disservice to your brand and to what you are because the, the next person's gonna see, eh, that was a little funky. Not sure about that one. That's true. That's true. That's true. Larry, pay me now or pay me later. Yeah, right. Exactly. Exactly. DC: La lazy marketing. LT: Exactly. DC: Lazy marketing. LT: What a great topic. That was Jeff. Uh, D, we're, we're on our learnings, man. Jeff, this has been so much fun. We knew this would be fun. Wow. The reality is even better. DC: Wow. Really? LT: Yeah, it's amazing. DC: Damn. Okay, LT: So I'm gonna start with my learnings, Dee. All right, hold on. Wait, hold on. Crow. What'd you say, brother? Jeff Crow: I said time flies when you're having fun. DC: Yes. Yeah. Sorry, Larry. LT: Exactly right. All right, so Jeff, there's a million of 'em. I'm gonna keep it, uh. To under 10. Okay. Number one. So the, the example that Jeff brought up almost in, uh, secondly, in in his, uh, in, in the brand part, the number one question was dad fuel. One of the really cool things about that example, brand nerd, we've talked about this a lot, we can't emphasize this enough. Dad fuel is very focused. They're not saying parent fuel, they're saying Dad fuel. Right? Yeah. And so you can't be all things for all people. So when you do that right, dad fuel, you nail the consumers. Well, you talk about what, uh, that that real Jeff right in, and of course he understood it, but that, that is something that's a great example of when you sacrifice and do things right, you can then emotionally connect with audience. So that's number one. Love that one. Mm-hmm. Number two, learning confidence that Jeff alluded to in the four different people, um, that he talked about, Alice and Todd, Joe and Paul. The thing they all had in, in common was that they would imbue the people that work for them with confidence. And man, if you could do that, we've talked about if you can imbue your child when you're rearing your child with confidence, confidence is such a, a, a turbo boost to life. That it's awesome. So that can really positively shift someone's career if they're working for you and maybe even the business. So imbuing your people with confidence. Huge. Number three, put yourself around really good people. Jeff said this second naturedly, but it sounds trite, but it's so important. Number four, don't overstate your importance. Understand where you fit in the realm of of things. And part of that number five is reading the room. And number six, listen to that little man. Listen to that little man. Jeff and I have both made that mistake and, and it hurt us greatly. Number seven, that, and this is a quote from Jeff. He said, the tech without a story is worthless. Love that one. Mm-hmm. Um, number eight, and this is Jeff lives this brand nerds. You're coming around your career and a lot of times the next report, working the next couple hours seems so important. But if you, if you're prioritizing that over your family, that's just not gonna work in the long term. So never prioritize career over family. And then the last one, DC said this, I love this one. Don't be seduced by algorithms over authenticity. Those are mine. DC: Those are great, LT. This is the part of the show Crow where I attempt to share with you and the brand nerds what I believe, uh, is part of your secret sauce. What makes you unique to the 8 billion people who are walking around on this planet currently? It's challenging for me, more challenging for me crow when doing this with someone that I know and even more difficult when it's someone that I know well. And I know you well and you know me well, so I don't know what's gonna hit me as we are going through these conversations as to what is it that is starting to percolate in my mind? What are the synapses firing to tell me about a person whom I've already know? And in this case, Jeff, I'm gonna talk about something that you know really, really well, that not many people know about you, and I'm finding con a connection here. So Larry and Brand Nerds, Jeff Crow is a lover of baseball. He has been a lover of baseball for many, many, many years. In fact, his son Evan, who works for the Mets. He's in baseball. So this, this apple has not fallen far from the tree, not that Tyler has fallen far from the tree as a stage manager, uh, because also Jeff is a bit of a performer behind the scenes, like, like Tyler. But Evan, Evan actually works in the scouting department for the New York Mets. I did not recognize something until just now, and it's the following. And baseball circles when a player is really, really good, like special, not the same as the other players. They describe this player as a five tool player, five tool player. So just stick with me, uh, brand nerds for a second here. Here, here are the five tools in the tool bag of the best baseball players, no matter the era. Hitting for average. So 300 higher, higher hitting, average, hitting for power. The long ball fielding, how do they handle the outfield? Infield? Even if they're pitching, how do they feel that's catching the ball. Four arm strength. Can someone catch the ball way, way out? Like Aun did the other day out in right field and he gunned someone down from like, no hops, no sit, no, no, nobody catching it and doing a relay. Just straight ahead. Arm strength. And then number five is speed. So these are the elements of a five tool player in baseball. That's what it is. And I started thinking, as you and I were talking here with Crow, why? Why can five tool players do those things? Well, when they're hitting it's pitch recognition, they can see almost the threads. They know when a curve is coming, a fast ball is coming a change up. This pitch recognition, base awareness, so they know how to run the bases, when to take off and steal a base, when not to take off and steal a base defensive positioning. They find themselves, oh, this person right here, they look like they want to kind of like maybe go opposite field on this thing. Let me just slide on over and anticipate where this ball may fall. And in situational awareness. Are we at one out, are we at two? Uh, just the other day there was a gentleman, he's on the infield, he's a second basement. There's a popup. There are two outs. He's looking at, I mean, excuse me, one out. He's looking at the ball. It's a easy infield play. All he has to do is catch the ball. There's a runner at second base. And, and first and second, uh, first is, has a runner on it. And then there's a, a person who's batting, who's just hit the popup. So this is an easy, you catch the ball and then it's two outs. No, no, no. This dude looks, he lets the ball drop. Okay. And everybody's like, oh, shit. He throws the ball to third base because the guy at second base has to go to third base. He's out. Okay. He, he, he's out. So that's two outs. And then he throws the, the third baseman, throws it to second base sort. Stop, gets there. Double play. Situational awareness. I know that might be hard to read for the non-sports fans, but these are the why's. Why is someone able to do those things to become a five tool player? Intuition. Intuition, and crow. You gave several examples of your intuition throughout our conversation here today. One of them, the small voice and the F up. The other one, even in your intuition of the dinner with Kobe when he has glasses on all, all of these are examples of intuition. When to move from a career into another one. When to go into tech, when to go into pe. All of these, dare I say, are about your intuition. I'll even go to one example of intuition that could have been a major F up. Fortunately it wasn't at the Coca-Cola company, Larry, you notice with brand nerds. During our day, everything revolved around the name on the building, which was Coca-Cola. So anything major that was done in marketing was done on Coca-Cola first. And in many cases only it was a major coup that Sprite was able to flip. Coca-Cola's, NBA sponsorship into Sprite's NBA PON sponsorship. So I gotta shout out everybody, Koonin and Conrad and all the folks to help make that, uh, make that happen with us. That said, for NBA All-Star weekend, every one of these NBA All-Star weekends, the endemic brands dominate. They all dominate the sports brands. When I say endemic, they dominate ancillary brands like ours or beverage we're on the sideline crow. His vision was when that all star NBA All Star game comes to Atlanta, we are going to dominate every brand and make certain that we own it 'cause it's in our hometown. So here's one of the ideas that Crow Concocts, he comes in my office and he says. Hey, DC uh, in order for us to really own, own this thing, not only inside of Atlanta, but beyond. I got an idea. Okay, girl, what's the idea? I want us to cover up the whole side of a building that would be visible for people at the stadium of, no one would miss this in the city. That's, that's there for All Star Weekend that had, that's about Sprite and it had some clever line about, I'm looking at the picture right now. Are you looking at the picture right now? Okay. What does the line say? Crow uh, LT: welcome. NBA All stars. Jump and touch this sign. Get a free Sprite. DC: Okay. Okay. This on the, okay. This is the whole, the whole side of the, the third side of the Coke Tower. The whole side of the whole side of the Coke Tower. Okay. So he says, I would like to do this to cover it up. I'm looking at this dude like he is out of his fucking mind. Okay. I'm like, I'm like, are you serious? I take a second and I go, yes. Now we, we don't know how we're going to do this, right? But this has to travel all first we have to sell in, led by Jeff. We have to sell in all of the folks at our level and in marketing. But this is not such a decision that can be made by our bosses. It has to be made by the CEO of the company. Exactly. 'cause we were covering up his windows. Yeah. We're covering up his windows. Yes. So, so, uh, it's, it's a long story short, we made that thing happen. We, we made that thing happen. Why were we able to do that? I believe once again, Crow. It was your intuition that told you if there's any time to do something like this. It is now. And that at that time was the NNBA All Star game, which then leads me to this. I'm arriving at a point, you are a five tool business person. I set that up with a five tool baseball player. Here are the five tools you have. One, you make growth-based decisions, growth of business, and growth of the people. If you can see growth in something, metrics. Revenue, um, E, whatever. You're gonna make that decision. Number two, p and l management. You understand your way around a p and l, you know how to manage it. And when you're on the PE side, there is something that Crow has mentioned brand nerds, pay attention to it. It's called an exit. If you aren't in route to some exit, you are in route to be out. So that's p and l Management Number three, brand. While Crow, you are a CEO. You are a brand first, CEO. You understand how brands work and how to leverage them for people. Not only are you great at managing the people who report to you, you are also great at managing sideways and up. You never get a Sprite sign covering up the world headquarters of the Coca-Cola company or on the CEO side, unless you understand how to manage up with people and, and five of the five tools data. You make decisions informed by data, but not held hostage to data. And you do all of that because of your intuition. Brother, this is what I've learned about you today. I should have known this before now. I know it now. Uh, I, I LT: appreciate the feedback. You know, I always appreciate your opinion. I will tell you that of all the things I've learned from you, the power of being vulnerable with those people that you work with and vulnerable and authentic, but v they're two different things. Mm-hmm. Yes. And, and you taught me to be vulnerable because it makes you more authentic and it's made me a better person and a better manager, and a better business person. And, um, I'm, I'm grateful that we had the chance to work together for however long we worked together, and I'm grateful that the friendship has, um, stood the test of time, even though a wildfire tried to take us away from each other. DC: This, this is a true story. True story. Jeff Crow: Yeah. My man. Love you, brother. Love you too. Appreciate the time and the, uh, opportunity to tell my story. LT: Oh, that's a mic drop you guys. That's awesome, Jeff. That's such a great close to this show. So Brand Nerds Thanks for listening to Brands, beats and Bytes. The executive producers are Jeff Shirley, Darryl "DC" Cobbin, Larry Taman Hailey Cobbin, Jade Tate, and Tom Dioro. DC: The Podfathaaaaa! LT: Ah, that is he. And if you do like this podcast, please subscribe and share and for those on Apple Podcasts if you're so inclined, we love those excellent reviews. We hope you enjoyed this podcast and we look forward to next time where we will have more insightful and enlightening talk about marketing.