Latest / Elevate Podcast: Powered by Braden / Elevate Ep 71 Pt. 2: Mac Schilling, CEO & President of TwoPointO Capital, LLC

Transcript

Elevate Ep 71 Pt. 2: Mac Schilling, CEO & President of TwoPointO Capital, LLC · Elevate Podcast: Powered by Braden

• 0:02
  Welcome to the Elevate podcast, where
• 0:04
  every leader has a story. We bring you
• 0:06
  conversations with influential leaders
• 0:08
  who are shaping our local communities.
• 0:11
  Hear about their path to leadership and
• 0:14
  experiences that define them and how
• 0:16
  they're driving meaningful impact today.
• 0:18
  Hey everybody, Jason here with another
• 0:20
  episode of the Elevate Powered by Brain
• 0:22
  podcast. You know, we started this
• 0:24
  podcast back in January having
• 0:26
  conversations with forprofits, nonprofit
• 0:28
  organizations, K through 12, higher ed.
• 0:31
  We just talked to a number of leaders
• 0:32
  from around the state, now into
• 0:34
  Illinois, also into Ohio and into into
• 0:37
  Kentucky. Conversations have been
• 0:39
  terrific. This one actually is is
• 0:41
  interesting because we we had an
• 0:42
  opportunity to talk to another
• 0:44
  individual that has a little bit of
• 0:46
  foreshadowing to this particular
• 0:48
  person's uh journey. And so we talked to
• 0:50
  Valo a little bit earlier and then
• 0:52
  Justin had a conversation about kind of
• 0:54
  the genesis and how some things started
• 0:56
  with the organization that Mac is with.
• 0:58
  But it'll be great to learn more about
• 1:00
  your story, Mac, and and more about 2.0.
• 1:03
  But Mac, welcome to the show.
• 1:04
  >> Thanks for having me, Jason.
• 1:05
  >> All right, let's give everybody the
• 1:07
  organization name and your title.
• 1:08
  >> Yep. So 2.0 Capital LLC. My name is Max
• 1:12
  Schilling and I serve as the CEO and
• 1:14
  president.
• 1:15
  >> That's awesome. All right, that's where
• 1:16
  you are today, but not where you
• 1:17
  started.
• 1:17
  >> No. So, let's go back to the beginning.
• 1:19
  Where you from originally?
• 1:20
  >> I'm an adopted Hooser. So, I grew up in
• 1:22
  Traverse City, Michigan.
• 1:24
  >> TC Traverse City 100%. Awesome. So,
• 1:28
  yeah, Grand Traverse Bay is beautiful up
• 1:30
  there with the the little, you know, the
• 1:34
  Was that there? Okay. So, that was
• 1:36
  through high school.
• 1:37
  >> Yeah, through high school.
• 1:38
  >> All right. Incredibly proud to have
• 1:40
  grown up there.
• 1:41
  >> It's a beautiful place.
• 1:42
  >> Unbelievable.
• 1:42
  >> Yeah. If people haven't gone, they
• 1:44
  should go.
• 1:44
  >> Absolutely. I try not to Yeah. I can you
• 1:46
  might just your age a little bit don't
• 1:49
  want it to get too overcrowded but yeah
• 1:50
  I mean we just we grew up outside all
• 1:53
  the time.
• 1:53
  >> Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:54
  >> Up in TC and everything you can do
• 1:56
  outside whether you outside during the
• 1:58
  summer, winter, all those different
• 1:59
  types of things. So high school in
• 2:01
  Traber City.
• 2:02
  >> Yeah.
• 2:03
  >> What's a what's a young Mac doing and
• 2:05
  what are you thinking is going to come
• 2:06
  next when you get out of high school?
• 2:07
  >> Yeah. So I went to Traverse City St.
• 2:09
  Francis. It's a small Catholic school up
• 2:11
  there in Traverse City.
• 2:12
  >> Okay.
• 2:13
  um without coming across like Bruce
• 2:15
  Springsteen singing glory days. We had a
• 2:19
  great football program at the school.
• 2:21
  All right. Um small, you know, D7 uh
• 2:24
  Catholic school football team, but
• 2:26
  incredible uh history and winning record
• 2:29
  and coaches in the, you know, Michigan
• 2:31
  high school football hall of fame and
• 2:33
  all right. So we every kid who went to
• 2:35
  St. Francis was literally just gearing
• 2:37
  up to try to play for Larry Sers at no.
• 2:40
  This is the thing. Coming in from middle
• 2:42
  school into high school. Oh, yeah.
• 2:43
  >> You're going to play football.
• 2:45
  >> What position should you play?
• 2:46
  >> Safety and running back.
• 2:47
  >> No kidding.
• 2:48
  >> Yeah. All right.
• 2:48
  >> I wasn't fast enough for any D1 offers.
• 2:52
  >> All right. So, when you finish up
• 2:54
  playing football and finish up high
• 2:56
  school, where are you going to go next?
• 2:57
  Where's the journey take you?
• 2:59
  >> We grew up um with Katie Strip Pants up
• 3:02
  in Northern Michigan. My parents are
• 3:04
  from Indiana originally.
• 3:05
  >> Oh, so my No kidding.
• 3:07
  >> Yeah. My mom went to Pike High School uh
• 3:09
  back when it was a cornfield and my dad
• 3:11
  was a Bloomington South guy.
• 3:12
  >> Okay.
• 3:13
  >> Um and his job took us up to Traverse
• 3:15
  City up northern Michigan.
• 3:16
  >> Yeah. Yeah.
• 3:17
  >> But my older sister, younger brother and
• 3:18
  myself, we grew up with candy stripe
• 3:20
  pants. We love you. Everything about
• 3:22
  Indiana and my grandparents still lived
• 3:24
  in Indiana. So we'd come down every
• 3:25
  shimmer and visit their farm over in
• 3:27
  Pittsburgh on the east side of town. Um
• 3:31
  and I just wanted something different. A
• 3:33
  lot of friends were going to MSU, a lot
• 3:34
  of friends were going to U of M. I'm
• 3:36
  like, you know what? I'm gonna try
• 3:37
  something different. I'm gonna buck the
• 3:39
  trend. Buck the trend. I didn't go down
• 3:40
  to Bloomington. Didn't know a soul.
• 3:43
  >> No. No kidding. Didn't know anyone
• 3:44
  school. No one go my school. I'm in
• 3:46
  cold. No one from my school. Okay. All
• 3:48
  right. So, I go from a graduating class
• 3:50
  of 95 students to an incoming class of
• 3:54
  >> thousands.
• 3:55
  >> Yeah. No. No. Nobody. In 95, you know
• 3:58
  everybody. Yes. Right. Okay. All right.
• 4:00
  So, you decide to go to IU. You show up
• 4:02
  in Bloomington. What are you studying?
• 4:04
  ology.
• 4:06
  >> All right. Yeah. So, that's all right.
• 4:08
  So, here's the thing. When you and I
• 4:09
  chatted earlier, I didn't know that.
• 4:11
  Yeah.
• 4:11
  >> That's really kind of funny. So, what
• 4:12
  were you thinking you were going to do
• 4:14
  going to school? What were you going to
• 4:15
  come out and do
• 4:15
  >> orientation? I'm sure they've changed it
• 4:18
  now, but orientation was very much felt
• 4:20
  like a cattle garden. You know, you're
• 4:21
  coming in and they're like major. You're
• 4:23
  like, I like science, biology, and then
• 4:26
  they're like, all right, next. Pick a
• 4:28
  major. Um, I loved biology. I didn't
• 4:31
  know what I wanted to do with it. Yeah.
• 4:32
  Um, but I was very fortunate to
• 4:35
  sophomore year IU they have a great
• 4:37
  program called LAMP liberal arts
• 4:38
  management program which is essentially
• 4:40
  a business minor for large arts
• 4:42
  students. I see. And so I immediately
• 4:45
  was drawn to that. And you're taking
• 4:46
  Kelly courses. Yeah. At the Kelly School
• 4:49
  of Business. You just happen to be
• 4:50
  biology or chemistry maybe.
• 4:52
  >> Sure.
• 4:53
  >> Um, and I was immediately drawn to it.
• 4:54
  So sophomore year is really where it got
• 4:56
  kind of the direction like all right,
• 4:58
  I'm going to stick with biology, but I
• 4:59
  really like this business. I like the
• 5:01
  business stuff. You don't know where
• 5:02
  it's going to go. I have no idea where
• 5:03
  it's going to go, but but I I like it.
• 5:05
  Who I took a handful of these business
• 5:07
  law courses.
• 5:08
  >> Okay. I'm like, okay, maybe patent law.
• 5:11
  Maybe that sounds interesting. Realize
• 5:13
  that I want to do that. But I took a
• 5:15
  year off, just paid off some undergrad
• 5:17
  loans and, you know, took the LSAT and
• 5:20
  applied to law school, went to Indiana.
• 5:22
  My now wife, she's a proud Marian County
• 5:26
  North Central grad.
• 5:27
  >> So, she's like, I'm heading back to
• 5:29
  Indie. So, you know, you can go to IU
• 5:32
  law school or
• 5:33
  >> this is kind of run its course.
• 5:35
  >> Yeah.
• 5:35
  >> I'm like, all right, well, I'm following
• 5:36
  you. You're the ends of the earth, but
• 5:39
  thank you for just going to
• 5:40
  Indianapolis.
• 5:40
  >> Yeah.
• 5:41
  >> Um, and so applied to IU law school and
• 5:44
  went there and they had a jo JD joint
• 5:47
  degree program, JDMBA.
• 5:49
  >> Okay.
• 5:49
  >> So, kind of did the dual thing again,
• 5:51
  which is law school during the day,
• 5:53
  >> NBA courses at night. Yeah.
• 5:54
  >> Um, up at the IU Indie Law School.
• 5:57
  >> So, no kidding.
• 5:58
  >> Yeah.
• 5:58
  >> All right. So, you finish up at IU Indie
• 6:00
  and you meet the girl. Do you guys get
• 6:02
  married while you're in school?
• 6:03
  >> Uh, I waited till afterwards. I felt
• 6:05
  horrible that I couldn't support her
• 6:07
  while I was in law school. Instead, I
• 6:09
  was maxing out student loans. All right.
• 6:10
  Okay. All right. So, so but you do you
• 6:12
  do get the girl in the end. So, that's
• 6:13
  awesome. All right. So, you finish up
• 6:15
  and where does the journey go? But
• 6:17
  what's the first role coming out of
• 6:18
  school?
• 6:19
  >> Big law firm. No kidding. Big ra firm.
• 6:21
  Um, it was being green bond doll. now
• 6:23
  Denton's and so I was had a summer
• 6:26
  internship there during law school
• 6:28
  summer associate for two years and then
• 6:30
  took a full-time job in their
• 6:32
  transaction department. Yeah. So they do
• 6:34
  mergers acquisitions and real estate
• 6:36
  transactions. So you could kind of lump
• 6:38
  attorneys into two buckets, litigators
• 6:40
  or transactional attorneys. And I knew I
• 6:42
  wanted to be on this side of it.
• 6:43
  >> Yeah.
• 6:44
  >> Um and my experience there I was there
• 6:46
  for about four and a half years was
• 6:48
  incredible. Loved everything about it.
• 6:51
  You know, ultimately it wasn't for me in
• 6:52
  the long run, but the training I got
• 6:55
  >> Mhm.
• 6:55
  >> at a big law firm, I'm convinced is
• 6:58
  second to none.
• 6:58
  >> Oh, I can only imagine. They have all
• 7:00
  the resources and opportunity.
• 7:02
  >> You're a pressure cooker. You have like
• 7:03
  I mean it this is hardcore. You get
• 7:05
  thrown into the wolves, right? I heard
• 7:07
  that before.
• 7:07
  >> Deep end. And I was very fortunate to
• 7:09
  have some great mentors there that kind
• 7:11
  of took me under their wing. But you're
• 7:13
  working on cool projects for great
• 7:16
  clients.
• 7:16
  >> Yeah.
• 7:17
  >> Um it's it's a phenomenal training
• 7:19
  experience.
• 7:20
  >> Yeah. No kidding. All right. So, four
• 7:21
  and a half years there, big law firm.
• 7:23
  >> Yep.
• 7:23
  >> Where do you go next?
• 7:25
  >> Realized building sixinut in increments
• 7:27
  was not what I wanted to do for the rest
• 7:28
  of my life. Um, so I, you know, was very
• 7:32
  fortunate to kind of have an off-ramp
• 7:34
  August Mack environmental serve as their
• 7:36
  GC. I worked for Jeff Glanders over
• 7:39
  there. And again, same thing. It's
• 7:41
  amazing how just many stops you make in
• 7:43
  your life and what you learn and the
• 7:44
  people you meet
• 7:45
  >> at each stop. And so serving on the
• 7:47
  general counsel side, you know, really
• 7:50
  ingrained into the business instead of
• 7:52
  private practice a lot. That was the
• 7:53
  next stop and did that for another five
• 7:55
  years.
• 7:56
  >> Okay.
• 7:56
  >> For August Mac. Gotcha. All right. So
• 7:58
  now, now you're 10 years in. How does
• 7:59
  the journey get you to Valo?
• 8:01
  >> Uh Justin Padet.
• 8:03
  >> Oh, no kidding.
• 8:04
  >> Justin Padet. Uh you know, he's former
• 8:06
  adviser now president of Fileo.
• 8:08
  >> Yeah.
• 8:09
  >> But he was a Fiji down at IU. I was a
• 8:12
  Fiji as well. We weren't in the Fuji
• 8:14
  house at the same time, but we were both
• 8:16
  in Penrod Art Society.
• 8:18
  >> Okay.
• 8:18
  >> So, we ran around in similar circles,
• 8:20
  but didn't really know each other.
• 8:22
  >> So, you crossed paths.
• 8:23
  >> We crossed paths. I actually reached out
• 8:25
  to him. Just again, this is why I tell
• 8:27
  young college kids like, don't be afraid
• 8:29
  to make the request,
• 8:30
  >> of course.
• 8:31
  >> So, I just reached out to Justin. He
• 8:33
  struck me as a guy who has stuff in a
• 8:35
  pile and he's a good thinker and a lot
• 8:37
  of people said great things about him.
• 8:38
  So, yeah.
• 8:39
  >> Cold email. Justin,
• 8:41
  >> love to grab breakfast sometime. I'll
• 8:42
  pay for it. Love to meet you.
• 8:44
  >> Took me up on it. And he said, "Yes." He
• 8:46
  said, "Yes." Yeah. See, there I I don't
• 8:48
  want people to miss that. We talk about
• 8:49
  this a lot on this show. And I don't
• 8:50
  know if it's an Indiana thing, but it is
• 8:52
  truly true here. Especially if you're
• 8:55
  younger. Yeah.
• 8:56
  >> If you look out, you see some
• 8:57
  organization, you like what they're
• 8:59
  doing or like you said, stuff in a
• 9:00
  group, all that kind of stuff. If you
• 9:03
  reach out and ask in general, most
• 9:05
  people say yes.
• 9:06
  >> Completely agree.
• 9:06
  >> And and they actually want you to. It
• 9:09
  was Justin actually shared a story about
• 9:11
  reading a book from Jean B. Glick and
• 9:13
  one of the things he shared, it wasn't
• 9:15
  actually on the show, but he reads the
• 9:16
  book and and Jean says he really likes
• 9:18
  working with young individuals and
• 9:20
  helping people. So, I know it wasn't
• 9:22
  Justin, it was somebody else read this,
• 9:24
  whoever this book was. And so, it's
• 9:25
  Genevie Gene Bclick and the individual
• 9:28
  says, "Hey, you know what? I'm going to
• 9:30
  reach out and ask them to follow up with
• 9:32
  me." And they did, right? And that
• 9:34
  that's because they actually basically
• 9:35
  told you in the book that they wrote, I
• 9:37
  like working with young kids and the
• 9:39
  young kid reads it and does this kind of
• 9:40
  Yeah.
• 9:41
  >> And so it's just amazing when you do
• 9:42
  that here in Indiana.
• 9:44
  >> All right. So I think when you reach out
• 9:45
  to it's don't go in I tell college kids
• 9:49
  don't go into it with a self optimizing
• 9:51
  self-s serving networking. The term
• 9:53
  networking can kind of have that bad
• 9:56
  connotation. If you're going into it
• 9:57
  thinking I need to get something out of
• 9:58
  it, right? Just go into it being curious
• 10:00
  about the other folk people. Yeah. Yeah,
• 10:02
  the word curious is just he there. Just
• 10:04
  be curious. Just be curious. Ask a lot
• 10:06
  of questions. By and large, people like
• 10:07
  to talk about themselves.
• 10:08
  >> They do.
• 10:09
  >> Yeah. It's amazing when you think about
• 10:11
  it. What What got you to where you are?
• 10:14
  What career advice would you give
• 10:15
  someone like me? Right. If you were to
• 10:16
  do it over again, would you change
• 10:18
  anything? Yep. And then leave that
• 10:19
  conversation with
• 10:20
  >> you have two or three people that you
• 10:22
  think I should also meet. Yep. And then
• 10:24
  just spiderwebs out. That's the way real
• 10:26
  networking happens, right? When you go
• 10:28
  in with a genuine curiosity, learning
• 10:30
  about other people, learning their
• 10:32
  story, and understanding how that the
• 10:34
  two of you could maybe do something at
• 10:36
  some point together, that's for sure
• 10:37
  that could be beneficial for both of us,
• 10:39
  not trying to come out with something
• 10:40
  self-centered. Yeah, great advice.
• 10:42
  >> So, I had that breakfast with Justin
• 10:45
  >> and we enjoyed it and it ended up just
• 10:47
  kind of being a quarterly breakfast to
• 10:49
  pick each other's brains and see what
• 10:51
  you were working on. I had no
• 10:53
  expectation of working for wealth
• 10:56
  management registered investment
• 10:58
  advisor.
• 10:58
  >> Yep.
• 10:59
  >> None.
• 11:00
  >> I was very happy at August back.
• 11:01
  >> Yep.
• 11:02
  >> Um and but Justin kind of created this
• 11:04
  real estate platform within fileo
• 11:07
  >> and they ran it like he'll be the first
• 11:09
  they ran it like volunteer firefighters
• 11:11
  which they could do when it was smaller.
• 11:13
  Well, as they started to do more
• 11:15
  investments and the portfolio started to
• 11:16
  grow for the benefit of their clients at
• 11:19
  Valo. Yeah. They started to look around
• 11:20
  like, "Okay, now the volunteer
• 11:21
  firefighters are all a sudden working in
• 11:23
  the big city."
• 11:24
  >> That's right. Yeah.
• 11:24
  >> And so we need a dedicated team. So
• 11:26
  Justin reached out. He's like, "Hey,
• 11:28
  want to bend your ear over a bourbon and
• 11:31
  said, "Do you want to kind of take this
• 11:33
  and run?" No, no kidding. Like I do.
• 11:35
  Yeah, that sounds fun. It does sound
• 11:37
  fun. All right. So, so originally when
• 11:38
  you first get started, are you coming
• 11:40
  into Valleo and are you beginning just
• 11:43
  to run this? Cuz I know eventually you
• 11:45
  guys end up kind of taking it and
• 11:47
  spinning it off.
• 11:48
  >> That's right. Yeah. So, what what's the
• 11:50
  story? What are you coming in to do and
• 11:51
  kind of what's that journey look like?
• 11:53
  >> Yeah. So, we I came in I was hired
• 11:55
  January 2020. Perfect tiring.
• 11:57
  >> Perfect time. Y
• 11:58
  >> three three months ahead of major
• 12:00
  change.
• 12:00
  >> Yeah. We ended up having to build a team
• 12:02
  virtually and you know what's this
• 12:04
  global pandemic going to do with our
• 12:06
  existing investments and oh by the way
• 12:08
  there's actually great opportunities
• 12:10
  during this global pandemic so we want
• 12:12
  to continue to make investments there
• 12:14
  was a lot I mean I was thrown into the
• 12:16
  absolute deep end of the middle
• 12:17
  >> kidding
• 12:18
  >> but you know one of the concerns I had
• 12:20
  going in was okay this is a huge
• 12:22
  differentiator for Justin kind of
• 12:25
  started it so
• 12:26
  >> is he really going to give me the keys
• 12:28
  to run with this or is he going to be
• 12:30
  over on my shoulder the whole time.
• 12:32
  Yeah. Like and much to my pleasure, but
• 12:36
  also slight fear. He's like, "Here are
• 12:38
  the keys." No kidding. Go. No. No. No.
• 12:41
  Backseat driver.
• 12:42
  >> I mean, he we would meet regularly just
• 12:44
  to sure give him updates and stuff, but
• 12:46
  I mean, he was like, "Don't run it off
• 12:48
  cliff, but right here, here you go."
• 12:50
  >> No kidding.
• 12:50
  >> Yeah. Which was it's a testament to
• 12:52
  Justin and the leaders at Valo. Yeah. To
• 12:54
  trust people.
• 12:55
  >> No kid.
• 12:55
  >> Run. Yeah. It's fantastic. So my first
• 12:58
  few months was just assessing what do we
• 13:00
  have?
• 13:01
  >> Sure. Yeah.
• 13:01
  >> Um putting in SOPs. I'm a big systems
• 13:05
  big operating procedure. I have to like
• 13:07
  those things. It's the surviving deep
• 13:10
  down inside me.
• 13:11
  >> Um and so assessing that and then
• 13:14
  identifying talent. Um we had two
• 13:16
  individuals who were kind of straddling
• 13:18
  both sides of Valo and the real estate
• 13:20
  platform. Josh Decker and Kevin Ly who
• 13:23
  are just absolutely phenomenal. I can't
• 13:25
  sing their praises enough. And I told
• 13:27
  Justin, I was like, I need those two
• 13:28
  fully on the on the real estate side.
• 13:31
  >> Yeah.
• 13:31
  >> Um, and then we we we needed to
• 13:33
  formalize it. So, okay, now this is not
• 13:35
  unofficial subsidiary or platform. Let's
• 13:38
  create it as a subsidiary of layout that
• 13:40
  serves volume clients.
• 13:42
  >> So, we officially created 2.0 at that
• 13:45
  point.
• 13:46
  >> Um, but we've had a good long run, 16
• 13:49
  years.
• 13:49
  >> Yeah.
• 13:50
  >> Which leads up to the spin out in in
• 13:52
  January of 2026. So January in 2026, you
• 13:55
  spin out carve off the organization. You
• 13:57
  become the president and CEO. Tell me
• 13:59
  more about what you guys are doing over
• 14:01
  there and kind of what 2.0 looks like.
• 14:03
  >> Yeah.
• 14:05
  >> Well, I mean, originally we've had the
• 14:07
  luxury of and the benefit of incubating
• 14:10
  within an RA, a registered investment
• 14:12
  advisor, wealth management firm
• 14:15
  essentially. Um, and we did that solely
• 14:18
  for Valo clients for 16 years.
• 14:21
  >> Yep. And um it's a huge differentiator
• 14:23
  for BLO. Um and you know that that that
• 14:26
  industry
• 14:28
  I'm going to say this um
• 14:31
  can be a commodity.
• 14:33
  >> It totally can
• 14:34
  >> unless you differentiate yourself
• 14:36
  somehow, right? Comprehensive service a
• 14:38
  toz soup the nuts. Are you just working
• 14:40
  on the public investments for your
• 14:42
  clients? Are you actually advising them
• 14:44
  on a host of other things? A holistic
• 14:46
  approach. How's your state planning
• 14:47
  working in with your public investments?
• 14:49
  charitable giving strategy, tax
• 14:51
  strategy, all that and then alternative
• 14:53
  investments has become a huge bucket
• 14:56
  >> um for the allocation for the clients in
• 14:58
  their portfolio buildout. So, Valo
• 15:00
  client plan their flag in real estate
• 15:01
  like this this is a great way to provide
• 15:03
  our clients with unique alternative
• 15:05
  investment opportunities. Um and so we
• 15:07
  did that we serve Valo clients solely as
• 15:10
  2.0 about I would say you know right
• 15:14
  around 2024 we started to get outside
• 15:16
  interest
• 15:17
  >> 2.0 O did of just other groups, other
• 15:19
  firms being like, "Hey, we know you guys
• 15:21
  do this just for historically, but man,
• 15:24
  we we like the idea. We want to stick
• 15:26
  our necks out and provide clients with
• 15:28
  similar investment opportunities, but we
• 15:30
  don't know how to underwrite operators.
• 15:32
  We we're not comfortable really sticking
• 15:34
  our necks out there, right? Recommending
• 15:36
  investments. We need a group that can
• 15:38
  kind of help us get into this into the
• 15:40
  space.
• 15:41
  >> Is there any way we could tag along?"
• 15:43
  Mhm.
• 15:43
  >> So, we put together a business plan and
• 15:45
  present it to Valo and you know how
• 15:48
  great another testament to how great of
• 15:49
  a partner they are. They're like, "Yeah,
• 15:51
  that sounds great."
• 15:51
  >> Yeah, that's awesome.
• 15:52
  >> Now, you know, here's some boundaries we
• 15:54
  need to play with.
• 15:55
  >> Sure.
• 15:56
  >> Yeah. Go have at it.
• 15:57
  >> Yeah. You know, when when the market ask
• 15:59
  you to do things because they see you
• 16:00
  doing well, it's also it's telling you
• 16:02
  that you've got a good model here and an
• 16:05
  opportunity to do more. I'm curious like
• 16:07
  from a vetting perspective, how are you
• 16:08
  guys going through vetting different um
• 16:11
  you know real estate deals and different
• 16:13
  things? How does that look like for you
• 16:14
  guys?
• 16:14
  >> So we 2.0 we're not operators, right? We
• 16:18
  we put the deals together. We structure
• 16:20
  them. We we we partner and I want to
• 16:23
  emphasize that partner with operators,
• 16:26
  developers, acquisition groups, real
• 16:28
  estate groups. So we we partner with
• 16:31
  them to get first look access to their
• 16:33
  investment opportunities. So we're we're
• 16:34
  not slinging hammers or anything like
• 16:36
  that.
• 16:36
  >> Right. Of course. And so we need to
• 16:37
  partner with groups that actually do the
• 16:39
  the real estate investments ground up
• 16:41
  development or acquisitions um and
• 16:44
  execute the business plan there. Um so
• 16:47
  you know while we are investing in real
• 16:49
  estate I mean whether it's real estate
• 16:52
  software startup whatever the case may
• 16:55
  be you're ultimately investing in
• 16:57
  people.
• 16:58
  >> That's right.
• 16:58
  >> At the end of the day.
• 16:59
  >> That's right. Um, and you know, from the
• 17:03
  get-go, we were like, even if it's what
• 17:06
  appears in the underwriting to be a
• 17:07
  grand slam, walk-off grand slam
• 17:09
  investment opportunity, if it's with
• 17:12
  someone that we're not comfortable with,
• 17:14
  character issues or something else, like
• 17:16
  it's not worth the trouble.
• 17:18
  >> Yeah.
• 17:18
  >> And we'll lose one night of sleep of
• 17:19
  missing out on a great investment
• 17:21
  opportunity. But,
• 17:22
  >> you know, firm believer in you can't do
• 17:24
  good business with bad people. So, we
• 17:27
  don't underwrite the investments first.
• 17:28
  We underwite the people first.
• 17:30
  >> And so we call them the sponsors, the
• 17:32
  operators. And we're fortunate to have
• 17:34
  11 on our platform that we've, you know,
• 17:37
  vetted and we
• 17:38
  >> they give us first look investment
• 17:40
  opportunities. Um but we'll look at the
• 17:43
  underwriting, the um execution history,
• 17:46
  their performance.
• 17:48
  >> Yeah.
• 17:48
  >> Secession plan, business continuity
• 17:50
  plan, cyber security policy. I mean, we
• 17:53
  want to see behind the curtain before
• 17:55
  we're going to put money Yeah. their
• 17:56
  projects. And then it's an intentionally
• 17:58
  long process just by design. A I think
• 18:02
  it takes a while to get to know someone,
• 18:03
  >> right? Yeah.
• 18:04
  >> B, equity by and large is a very
• 18:07
  transactional relationship.
• 18:09
  >> It's not a bad business model. It's just
• 18:11
  not one that we wanted. We wanted a
• 18:13
  partner relationship with these groups
• 18:14
  and not hey, we're closing in two weeks.
• 18:17
  Can you guys fun this project? It's like
• 18:18
  I don't know you, right?
• 18:20
  >> I'm not going to sprint to get on the
• 18:22
  writing done on this project. And so
• 18:23
  it's an intentionally long dating
• 18:25
  process to get onto the platform.
• 18:27
  >> So that's the first point is
• 18:28
  underwriting the actual people. Yeah.
• 18:31
  And then it's the investment
• 18:32
  opportunities and even though we have
• 18:33
  approved sponsors on our platform and
• 18:36
  this is why we needed a strong team
• 18:37
  which we do have. We don't take their
• 18:40
  underwriting as gospel. So we will
• 18:42
  underwrite the project ourselves.
• 18:44
  >> And yeah our whole thing is you know the
• 18:46
  kind of saying we'd say internally to
• 18:48
  each other is beat the living snot out
• 18:50
  of this investment opportunity. Yeah.
• 18:52
  there's any shine left, it's probably
• 18:54
  worth looking into even a little bit of
• 18:56
  air, right? Yeah.
• 18:57
  >> But we're going to beat it up. Yeah. Um
• 18:59
  and then site tours, all this stuff. So,
• 19:01
  we have our own gauntlet of due
• 19:03
  diligence.
• 19:04
  >> Yeah. It's amazing. By the way, and a
• 19:05
  couple things you hit on there, you guys
• 19:07
  are really in the people business.
• 19:09
  That's what's interesting about the show
• 19:11
  is in general, I've talked to people
• 19:12
  across all different verticals.
• 19:14
  Ultimately, it boils down to the people
• 19:16
  that you're working with on your team
• 19:18
  and the teams that you build to be able
• 19:20
  to go do the things that you do, right?
• 19:22
  And then the people that you're going to
• 19:24
  work with and like you said, you're
• 19:25
  investing in them.
• 19:27
  >> Yeah.
• 19:27
  >> Right. You have to do all the other
• 19:29
  things. You have to do all the blocking
• 19:31
  and tackling of understanding, is it a
• 19:33
  good deal? All that kind of stuff. Make
• 19:34
  sure that you're making a good decision.
• 19:37
  But the key point, I think, that you
• 19:38
  said was, let's say everything looks
• 19:40
  perfect, but the person's just not the
• 19:42
  right person. Yep.
• 19:43
  >> It's not the right deal.
• 19:45
  >> Right. And so that to me steps out as a
• 19:47
  as a key point, you know, in the way
• 19:49
  that you guys are operating and you can
• 19:51
  see that that's that's the history of I
• 19:53
  talked a little bit with Justin and kind
• 19:55
  of the organization and how people have
• 19:58
  operated together and the teams that
• 19:59
  have been built and uh the leadership
• 20:02
  that's there and the culture. You can
• 20:04
  see that that's spilled over into this
• 20:06
  organization. It's just terrific.
• 20:07
  >> 100%. I mean, we'll take them golfing.
• 20:10
  >> Did they break a club over their leg?
• 20:12
  rates aren't going their way.
• 20:13
  >> Yeah.
• 20:14
  >> Not an end all and be all, but that's a
• 20:15
  pretty good data point for
• 20:16
  >> absolutely. When things aren't going
• 20:18
  your way, how are you reacting?
• 20:19
  >> Yeah.
• 20:19
  >> If an investment's going south, are you
• 20:21
  going to be flipping out or are you
• 20:23
  going to be calm, collected,
• 20:25
  >> going into non-rine problem solving
• 20:27
  mode, or
• 20:28
  >> you got a pub over your leg?
• 20:29
  >> That's right. Take them out for a few
• 20:31
  bourbons. I'm a decently sized guy, can
• 20:33
  handle a few drinks. But yeah, do they
• 20:35
  start making crude comments about
• 20:37
  waitresses? Do they start being
• 20:38
  obnoxious talking about competitors?
• 20:40
  Yeah,
• 20:41
  >> that's a massive red flag for someone
• 20:43
  like me.
• 20:43
  >> Yeah. You know what, Mac? There's
• 20:44
  there's a there's a story there that I
• 20:46
  want people to be able to hear it that
• 20:49
  courtship process. Yeah. Right. And so,
• 20:51
  you could meet somebody, they're on
• 20:52
  their best behavior, but then that's not
• 20:54
  who they actually are, right? It starts
• 20:56
  to get into those social situations. And
• 20:57
  we've had people say they take people to
• 20:59
  dinner. Uh they'll take people to dinner
• 21:01
  maybe with their spouse for dinner.
• 21:03
  Great.
• 21:03
  >> That's a great one because you can start
• 21:05
  to I used to do that also. I'd bring my
• 21:07
  wife and kind of separate people and
• 21:09
  have conversations and meet back at the
• 21:11
  end and very
• 21:12
  >> well what what did we hear right and so
• 21:13
  so everybody out there just know that
• 21:15
  that process is part of the courtship
• 21:18
  process and so you know just know that
• 21:20
  you're kind of always on camera right
• 21:22
  ultimately and I do like the idea if you
• 21:24
  break a club over your leg probably not
• 21:26
  going to be the right person to to be
• 21:28
  able to be in business with it it's such
• 21:30
  a it's such a cool business and it's
• 21:31
  it's neat to see how it's spun out of
• 21:33
  Valleo and how it stands you know kind
• 21:35
  of what you guys are doing here Today
• 21:37
  I'm curious, one of the things that we
• 21:39
  talk to our leaders about is we're here
• 21:41
  to bring business systems and obviously
• 21:43
  a technology company and tech is
• 21:46
  evolving so quickly. I'm curious in your
• 21:49
  particular space,
• 21:50
  >> how's tech evolving and where you see it
• 21:52
  going in the near future?
• 21:53
  >> Yeah. Um,
• 21:54
  >> boy, real estate is paradoxical on this
• 21:58
  topic
• 21:59
  >> a little bit. Um it is real estate is
• 22:03
  archaic in many ways and which means
• 22:06
  crying for disruption. Yeah. With AI and
• 22:09
  all this tech. Um but at the same time
• 22:12
  it's protected I think from complete
• 22:16
  take you know AI takeover.
• 22:18
  >> Yeah.
• 22:19
  >> You know
• 22:21
  it feels like all underwriting models
• 22:23
  somehow came from one underwriting model
• 22:26
  from Duke at some point. Everyone's
• 22:28
  using the same one. everyone's using the
• 22:30
  same one. Um, and there's it's it's an
• 22:32
  industry that's very leans heavily into
• 22:35
  we've always done it this way. Let's
• 22:36
  continue to do it.
• 22:37
  >> Yeah.
• 22:38
  >> Um, so AI is I mean it's so ready for
• 22:41
  disruption.
• 22:41
  >> Mhm.
• 22:42
  >> Um, but you still need people to swing
• 22:45
  hammers.
• 22:45
  >> Yeah. You still need people to labor it.
• 22:47
  >> That's right. And you still need people
• 22:49
  to have relationships.
• 22:51
  >> Like NATO cannot substitute, you know,
• 22:54
  me or a sponsor going and talking to
• 22:56
  community stakeholders about project.
• 22:58
  >> That's right. We can't aot can take
• 23:00
  their temperature on yeah how they feel
• 23:01
  about a project and how are we going to
• 23:03
  navigate that. We can't AIB doesn't know
• 23:06
  how you know who's who pulls the permit
• 23:08
  for the municipality. What's the best
• 23:10
  way to approach them?
• 23:11
  >> Mhm.
• 23:11
  >> Um how do we seek incentives and build
• 23:13
  relationships? I mean
• 23:14
  >> Yep.
• 23:15
  >> So in a weird way it's very protected.
• 23:18
  >> Yeah.
• 23:18
  >> From complete takeover and complete
• 23:20
  disruption.
• 23:21
  >> Yeah.
• 23:21
  >> But there is plenty of opportunity. I
• 23:24
  think it's it's the data. I mean, real
• 23:26
  estate, whether it's developers,
• 23:27
  investors, you're sitting on mounds of
• 23:29
  data.
• 23:30
  >> Yeah.
• 23:30
  >> But there's no real good way to use it,
• 23:33
  right? And you can be way more
• 23:35
  efficient. EOS, I'm a sucker for EOS,
• 23:37
  the entrepreneur operating system.
• 23:39
  >> Oh, yeah.
• 23:39
  >> Out of the book, Traction. And they have
• 23:41
  a they have a saying in there which I
• 23:44
  >> just I absolutely love and I've tried to
• 23:45
  implement it everywhere we've gone. But
• 23:47
  it's systematize the predictable so you
• 23:49
  can humanize the exceptional.
• 23:51
  >> That's right. So the things you need to
• 23:52
  be doing correctly every single day
• 23:56
  >> and you can't mess up on those but they
• 23:57
  pick a lot of time build systems
• 23:59
  processes around that right
• 24:01
  >> so that you are making sure that you're
• 24:02
  doing it and what that does is free up
• 24:04
  your bandwidth
• 24:05
  >> to do the exceptional things
• 24:08
  >> the critical thinking things the
• 24:09
  strategy things and that's why I think
• 24:11
  AI is going to come in and absolutely
• 24:13
  help
• 24:14
  >> agreed and and by the way at that point
• 24:15
  I think you nail it I think you you
• 24:18
  leverage AI and tool sets and different
• 24:20
  things to be ble to take the mundane and
• 24:22
  I have this Excel stuff has to get done.
• 24:24
  These things have to happen. It's two
• 24:26
  hours of my day. If I get that two hours
• 24:28
  back, I can go be in front of somebody.
• 24:31
  Well, maybe with that person, it could
• 24:32
  be building a relationship, building
• 24:35
  more no- like and trust opportunity. And
• 24:37
  that's where the real business will get
• 24:39
  done. Yeah.
• 24:39
  >> The things that have to get done is
• 24:42
  terrific. Automate that stuff all day
• 24:43
  long. It'll be neat to see what happens
• 24:46
  in the business over the next few years
• 24:47
  as some of that automation takes place
• 24:50
  and where and the creativity that the
• 24:52
  humans you work with and get to work for
• 24:55
  where that kind of goes where I see
• 24:57
  where it actually takes the business in
• 24:58
  future. Shifting gears, you've talked a
• 25:00
  little bit about this throughout your
• 25:02
  story from the beginning, but you've
• 25:04
  kind of mentioned you know different
• 25:05
  communities that you've been in. The
• 25:07
  question we ask our leaders is what's
• 25:09
  community mean to you?
• 25:11
  >> Yeah, that's a great question. And I
• 25:12
  love that you're asking it. Um, service,
• 25:17
  a life without service to me is a life
• 25:19
  not well-lived.
• 25:20
  >> Um, and I've been very fortunate with my
• 25:23
  family, with the schools I've been
• 25:25
  involved with, with the parishes I've
• 25:27
  been involved with. Um, you think that
• 25:30
  it's taking out time from your life, and
• 25:32
  it is, but it brings unbelievable
• 25:35
  balance is what I found into your life
• 25:37
  by serving, whether that's with
• 25:39
  nonprofits or organizations that are
• 25:41
  near and dear to your heart. So
• 25:42
  community to me is kind of twofold. It's
• 25:45
  belonging. There's a sense of belonging.
• 25:47
  I mean, that's what community means, but
• 25:49
  there's a sense of responsibility that
• 25:50
  comes with it, right? So even even going
• 25:53
  back to my earlier comment about, you
• 25:55
  know, the high school football team in
• 25:57
  the glory days, Bruce Springsteen, like
• 26:00
  it was a great football program and you
• 26:03
  belong to it and that was important, but
• 26:05
  you had an insane responsibility.
• 26:07
  >> That's right.
• 26:07
  >> To be a part of that.
• 26:08
  >> Yep. Um my parish, same thing. I think
• 26:11
  there's a sense of belonging
• 26:12
  >> and also that comes with incredible
• 26:15
  responsibility.
• 26:16
  Um IU the IU Kelly program um they had a
• 26:20
  professor when I was in there called
• 26:21
  Doug Austin. His name was Doug Austin
• 26:23
  and he taught the sc soft science of
• 26:25
  business. Yeah.
• 26:26
  >> Which I'm a sucker on. I will hookline
• 26:29
  and sinker. I'm all in on that. Um he he
• 26:33
  came in first day of a lecture hall.
• 26:34
  Huge lecture hall. And uh put down his
• 26:37
  briefcase and this is just one example
• 26:39
  of dog. put down his briefcase and he
• 26:41
  was saying, "All right, folks. I'm going
• 26:42
  to tell you the secret to successful
• 26:44
  business. If you do what I'm about to
• 26:46
  tell you that you can go to the burser's
• 26:47
  office and get your tuition back." So
• 26:49
  like everyone leaned in. Look, they're
• 26:51
  kind of like getting ready to take out.
• 26:53
  >> Yeah. Yeah.
• 26:53
  >> He goes, "You ready? Hire great people
• 26:59
  in the finance majors and supply chain
• 27:01
  management."
• 27:02
  >> Yeah. Yeah.
• 27:02
  >> Yeah. I was like, "Oh, no. This this
• 27:04
  good.
• 27:04
  >> This good." Yeah. This gold.
• 27:06
  >> This gold. This is true. Um and you know
• 27:09
  encourage your empower your employees,
• 27:12
  encourage the heart.
• 27:13
  >> Yeah.
• 27:13
  >> Hire you know hire hard, fire fast.
• 27:16
  >> Yeah. And I'll never forget he had um it
• 27:19
  was one class and it's still to this day
• 27:21
  one of the best pieces of advice I ever
• 27:22
  got. And I will tell any young person to
• 27:25
  do the same. He's like companies had
• 27:26
  mission statements. Companies have core
• 27:28
  values. Insanely important.
• 27:31
  >> You're going to come across fork and
• 27:33
  road decisions. This world is filled
• 27:35
  with shades of gray. Mhm.
• 27:37
  >> Um he goes, "You need a mission
• 27:40
  statement, though."
• 27:41
  >> M
• 27:41
  >> your own personal mission statement.
• 27:43
  >> Yeah.
• 27:43
  >> Not just your company, not just your
• 27:45
  organization. You need one.
• 27:46
  >> Mhm.
• 27:47
  >> He's like, "You're going to come in a
• 27:48
  lot of, you know, moments in life where
• 27:50
  what is the right call?
• 27:52
  >> Mhm.
• 27:52
  >> Do I take a left? Do I take a right?
• 27:54
  Yeah. I'm I'm cloudy. I don't know what
• 27:56
  decision to make." And so he encouraged
• 27:58
  us to come up with our own personal
• 28:00
  mission statement. Great advice. Oh,
• 28:01
  it's unbelievable. And I work really
• 28:03
  hard trying to develop mine. And it's be
• 28:05
  a fountain instead of a drain for your
• 28:07
  family, friends, co-workers, and
• 28:09
  community. So you bring glory and honor
• 28:10
  to God.
• 28:11
  >> Yeah.
• 28:12
  >> But basically at the end of my life, I
• 28:13
  want to be known as like he gave way
• 28:16
  more than he took.
• 28:17
  >> Yeah.
• 28:17
  >> Um and so community to me, wrapping it
• 28:19
  back into community is again you're
• 28:21
  belonging, but you've got a
• 28:22
  responsibility to pour in.
• 28:24
  >> Yeah, you do.
• 28:24
  >> Because if you're a taker, you're not a
• 28:26
  great member of that community.
• 28:27
  >> Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. Be a
• 28:29
  fountain, not a drain. By the way,
• 28:30
  that's terrific. That might be the name
• 28:32
  of the episode we'll call this because
• 28:34
  that's really good. The other piece
• 28:36
  that's interesting when you think about
• 28:37
  communities, you mentioned your parish
• 28:38
  and school and being part of that
• 28:40
  football team. When you're together,
• 28:41
  you're in that community, but when
• 28:43
  you're separated by yourself, you
• 28:45
  represent that community.
• 28:47
  >> Yeah.
• 28:47
  >> Right.
• 28:48
  >> And so th those are the pieces that I
• 28:50
  think people need to be considerate of
• 28:52
  is because you are a representation of
• 28:54
  the community that you're part of. And
• 28:56
  so you want to uphold that. But I also
• 28:59
  really enjoy the opportunity that you
• 29:01
  know when when things come to the end,
• 29:03
  you know, being somebody that gave more
• 29:04
  than they take and becoming a fountain
• 29:06
  and not a dream is amazing by the way.
• 29:09
  Love that. So when I think about your
• 29:10
  story just in general. Yeah.
• 29:12
  >> Growing up in what I think is a
• 29:13
  beautiful place. Don't go up there
• 29:15
  though. You guys want to I mean I mean
• 29:17
  we too far to drive all those kind of
• 29:19
  things. It is beautiful. It's really
• 29:21
  nice.
• 29:21
  >> Growing up there playing football and
• 29:23
  having that experience of playing for
• 29:26
  kind of an iconic program.
• 29:27
  >> Yeah.
• 29:28
  >> Right. and then bucking the system and
• 29:29
  going down to IU, right? Because you had
• 29:31
  candyst stripe dreams when you were a
• 29:32
  young kid,
• 29:33
  >> heading down there, going to school,
• 29:35
  studying, you know, biology and then
• 29:37
  going down the path and making changes,
• 29:39
  right? Yeah. Which, by the way, is just
• 29:42
  classic, which is why I mentioned it in
• 29:44
  there. then getting into law and doing
• 29:46
  different things and and you know
• 29:48
  reaching out at some point to an
• 29:50
  individual that you had some common
• 29:52
  interest with and some background with
• 29:54
  and then ending up just having a cup of
• 29:56
  coffee and then doing that quarterly and
• 29:58
  the next thing you know hey there's this
• 29:59
  opportunity joining Valo you know
• 30:02
  putting it together and now spinning off
• 30:04
  you know 2.0 You know, it's a terrific
• 30:06
  story and uh it's just it's just great
• 30:08
  to hear the way that you thought about
• 30:10
  leadership, the way you're currently
• 30:12
  leading, you know, the way you work
• 30:13
  through those other organizations to
• 30:15
  build and shape who you are now to be
• 30:17
  able to have this opportunity for you
• 30:18
  and your family. It's terrific.
• 30:20
  >> Last question I got, easiest one of the
• 30:22
  day.
• 30:22
  >> Yeah.
• 30:23
  >> If you're not working, what are you
• 30:24
  doing for fun?
• 30:24
  >> I'm with my family.
• 30:26
  >> Yeah. I mean, I don't have a whole lot
• 30:28
  of time. I like obviously the work.
• 30:30
  Yeah. And then being involved in
• 30:31
  community, whether it's Penrod or the IU
• 30:34
  real estate program,
• 30:36
  St. Luke Parish. So, I need that extra
• 30:39
  time. I want to be a present dad.
• 30:41
  >> Yeah.
• 30:41
  >> So, I want to coach teens and fourth
• 30:44
  grade CO city champs. That's right.
• 30:46
  Boooo. That's right.
• 30:48
  >> And just be with my family.
• 30:49
  >> Yeah. That's my fun. And then I sports
• 30:53
  anytime I can have an excuse to get down
• 30:55
  to Bloomington.
• 30:56
  >> Yeah. I'm taking it. And now and now
• 30:57
  coming off that exit and they're like 20
• 30:59
  and 0 in the last one. Yeah. This it's a
• 31:01
  lot easier to Z fans today. Hell yeah.
• 31:04
  >> And then I do basketball. We love
• 31:06
  Pacers. We're a big sports family.
• 31:08
  >> Yeah, sure. We love sports. That's
• 31:09
  awesome. My wife loves sports. We've
• 31:11
  indoctrinated our kids in IU sports, but
• 31:13
  they love the Pacers. Um we just we like
• 31:16
  to have a fun time. It's awesome, Mac.
• 31:18
  Appreciate you. Continued success, my
• 31:20
  friend, with you, your family, your
• 31:22
  communities that you're part of, and
• 31:23
  obviously the new organization and
• 31:25
  leading that. and appreciate you being
• 31:26
  on the show.
• 31:27
  >> Thanks, Jason. Appreciate it.
• 31:29
  >> Thank you for listening to the Elevate
• 31:30
  podcast powered by Braden. Subscribe to
• 31:33
  stay informed on all things Braden and
• 31:36
  be the first to hear new conversations
• 31:37
  with the leaders who are driving change
• 31:40
  and elevating organizations across our
• 31:42
  community.