Latest / Skin Anarchy / Chris Pond Interview @tophcam

Transcript

Chris Pond Interview @tophcam · Skin Anarchy

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Diablo 4 has arrived.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's the forces of Hell gather.
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• 0:23
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• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Tap the banner or visit this episode's page to learn more.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Skincare Anarchy.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: This is your host, Ecta.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: Today's guest is somebody who has been referred to as the Human Beauty Encyclopedia by Into the Gloss.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: And he has numerous followers on both Instagram and YouTube.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of people really rely on him for his beauty advice, his reviews to help them figure out what they need in their collections.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Chris Pond.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: Chris, welcome to the show.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for being here.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much for having me.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's really a pleasure to to chat with you.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's great, it's finally cooling off in Houston.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, I spent the last six years living in New York, so I kind of miss the seasons.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, that that passage of time is sort of nice to be able to watch.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: But um how are you?
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm good, I'm good.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just uh, you know, I'm getting used to the cold.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: I I actually moved here to New York from Florida, and like before that I was in the Caribbean, so now I'm like winter again.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, what's a winter coat?
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: I know it's so bad.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, um, I want you to tell us all about yourself, Chris.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: Seriously.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: I want to know all about you, your your background, your your journey and the beauty uh industry, everything.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: Just anything you want to share.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I always like uh kind of bring it back to there's this one picture of me with like my race car pajamas on.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: I was about three years old, and I had gotten into my mom's purse and I took her like fuchsia lipstick, smeared it all over my face.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: And like it's sort of been I've been hooked since then, you know.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: I just I was always getting in trouble for getting into my mom's makeup drawer, or I would find my way into like the Halloween costume wigs and just be running around the house with like a three Musketeers wig on.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I was just I don't know, I've always been drawn to beauty as a concept, and I guess the color aspect of it and and the the precious object kind of quality of it.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you have this like small tube of lipstick, but like that can mean the difference between, you know, feeling tired and feeling kind of you know dull, and then you know have this pop of color in your face that just like changes your whole mood is really quite fascinating to me.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: And it feels so good, right?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: When that color really sets on your skin.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was talking to somebody earlier about how it took me literally 10 years to find my favorite nude color.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and you know, and to be honest, I that that's a good point that you bring up because I feel like only recently have we seen um, you know, a nude that wasn't just a gray beige, you know what I mean?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: That where there really were richer, deeper tones that were flattering for all skin tones and all undertones, I think, which is also a key thing.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: But when you find it, right, and you can finally, you know, find that one color or you know, that uh family of colors that just feels right, you know, it's it's it's powerful.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's amazing, it's a powerful feeling.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, you know, I can tell you honestly from my perspective, um, you know, I don't wear a lot of makeup.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, not that I didn't in my in my teens, but like when I do, it's and and I put that lipstick on, it's like, yeah, you know what I mean?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like something like something sets in my mind, and I'm like, I'm ready for my day.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's like war paint almost, right?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, yes, exactly like that.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: So, okay, so tell me about your amazing journey because you said you've been doing this since you were 15 years old in terms of um, you know, just brand discovery and all of this awesome stuff.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: So, can you tell us all about your journey and just how you got started?
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I I know you just kind of explained it, but how was the whole experience with YouTube and stuff?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, you know, I always it started with Halloween, I think.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: My my mom is really into it and she always took it really seriously.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it was always we dressed up as a family every year and the house is decorated.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I was always kind of drawn to the power of transformation, I guess, that makeup can bring.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember being like five years old and them getting getting me off the bus dressed as Lily and Herman Munster and just feeling like I was on top of the world that like, you know, my parents were would be so extra as to, you know, be ready in costume.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I was always drawn to um theater and film.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so as I got a little bit older, I was still, I would say this is like maybe 10 years old at this point.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: I really got into musical theater.
• 4:49
  unknown: Yeah.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was doing, you know, I got into makeup as such.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you have to learn how to apply makeup for the stage.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, yes.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lot more extreme, and you know, I'm talking about Halloween makeup, it's a lot more extreme than day-to-day wear, but you know, just the idea of what light can do to a face and what shadow can do.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: And again, just like it kind of kept planting those seeds of interest, you know.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then that eventually led to an interest in like film and photography, but again, it was like portraiture.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I was always thinking about the makeup and and that sort of thing.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then um I actually learned, you know, I would say, if we can call it a technique or or however I approach makeup, came through watching YouTube.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I started when Michelle Fawn was like really kind of Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, icon of legend.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember she did this like Lady Gaga uh bad romance music video tutorial with this like silver cream shadow, and I was hooked.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so then it just became I want to like find out as much as I can.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: I want to, you know, see who's doing all these interesting looks and you know who speaks to me, I guess.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then eventually I, you know, with the encouragement of all my um all my friends in high school, I decided maybe I should just start filming and see what happens.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it just it just became this like outlet, you know.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: I um, you know, I struggled with like bullying and and all of that kind of growing up.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so to like have this escape where I could be myself and there weren't necessarily any immediate repercussions, I guess.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the people who were watching them were my friends and um and that sort of thing.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it just became this um like uh an escape exactly, and then it became like a passion, you know, where I was like, I could do something with this, you know, or or I want to learn more, I want this to become a thing, you know.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it really all changed for me when I started Accutane.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and this would have been around, I think, 2011, 2012.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: I had struggled with cystic acne prior to that.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: And my Durham and I tried everything topical, you know, the benzo peroxides, the retinoids, nothing was working.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, my mom was a little hesitant to to let me go on accutane because I already had a lot of mental health issues at that point.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you have to be careful with with um, it's a very harsh drug.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's a very harsh drug, yeah.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's harsh, and you know, and oftentimes I think, you know, the when people approach it, you know, the derms are often very serious about it, which they need to be.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: But I think some people who may be a good candidate for it maybe put it off out of fear and can actually end up benefiting from it the most, you know.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I agree.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: No, actually, I was offered Accutane as well when I was like in my team, because you know, back then nobody knew about dermatologists, you know what I'm saying?
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like nobody like, and like I remember like I'm from an immigrant family, and both my parents have no idea.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like they were like, you know, we don't know what to do without your about your acne.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like, go wash your face.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember I also went to a dermatologist and they offered me Accutane, and at that time, um, you know, as a woman and the whole reproductive aspect of it, I was scared shitless.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I was so scared.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then there was that was that awful story of that that person who like got in a plane and like flew it into a building, like for a couple of depression.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, yeah, it's it's serious, right?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's very serious.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, it changed my life and it changed my skin.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: And for the first time, I you know, I wasn't, you know, there's such um a mental health component associated with the skin.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, as someone who has in the past felt very ashamed and very embarrassed of my skin condition, it's I have that empathy, I think.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's because you understand the pain.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: And and then that's sort of what drove me to um to learn more about skincare.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: So while I was on Accutane, of course, my skin changed, became really dry.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, you have you have to get all the aquifer and all of the cervee and all of that to kind of combat that.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I just became really fascinated with understanding um ingredients.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and my dermatologist warned me, you know, if you don't have a good skincare regimen after we're done with Accutane, it's gonna come back.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, obviously at that point I swore to do everything I could to understand the skin and ingredients.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and you've had some really fantastic guests that, you know, have just brought up so many great points that I just you know would love to like chime in with that.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: That, you know, it it's great to to also see the shift in the industry and the availability of this kind of information, you know.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's important.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, this is so important.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I think like individuals that, you know, have gone through this skincare journey, right?
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like we we have to be able to like give opinions about what works and doesn't.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, I've I've invited on dermatologists and as much as I love their I love their expert advice and their, you know, the science behind it, it's also this this personal experience where it's like what you said, where it's like, you know, if you've struggled with acne and you've struggled with any skin condition, you really have to do your own homework at the end of the day, you know what I mean?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: And like make sure that it doesn't come back and it doesn't hurt you more because yeah, of course, it hurts you, it hurts your psyche growing up and feeling like that.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you bring up a good point about dermatologists because I think, you know, especially with social media and we've got all of these great um dermatologist influencers, if you like, um, who are are bringing forth this information.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: But I think sometimes I find that what can be overlooked is formulation and texture preference.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, anyone can tell you that, you know, uh ascorbic acid is great for, you know, evening out pigmentation and and building collagen.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: But what if you prefer a gel texture or a liquid or a cream or you know, and exactly and then there's so many other factors.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I think it's it's a big picture conversation.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's a sensorial experience.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think, you know, and I've been trying to like kind of gear the conversation a little bit in that direction in my own way, where it's like, you know, skincare isn't just skincare, it's self-care.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: And a huge component of self-care is what you just said, you know, feeling the texture, seeing if you like it on your skin, if it absorbs well on your skin.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: Those all of those things kind of come together to create this experience we all have when we take that 20, 30 minutes at the end of our day.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: To like go and take care of our skin.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's a huge component of skincare.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it's not just the science, and it's not just, you know, does this work or not?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, and those are important, right?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like it works, of course.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: I want it to work, but it's like at the end of the day, I'm buying this product because I want it to make me feel good in some way, you know?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I'm really passionate about just enjoying what you have.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm I'm a big fan of like new product launches just because I like to see where things are going.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm the also the first to tell you that take the product you've been using for the past year and take extra time applying it, you know, like take extra time cleansing your skin and like experience the the bloom of, you know, when you add water to your gel cleanser and it kind of turns lathery and soft, or you're using an oil that turns into a milk, like enjoy that, you know?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, someone's working really hard to formulate that, you know?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um exactly.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: No, but I mean, I want to know, uh actually, I'm very curious about one thing of the the whole Instagram and like YouTube community in terms of the marketing aspect for companies.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, can you tell me about how like when brands reach out to you, or if you're, you know, consulted for your for your opinion, your reviews of a product, like how does that work for you?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because I know there's been a lot of like just talk in the influencer community, you know what I mean, around brands and being not fair and all this, all this stuff.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I I've never known what the truth is.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I'm saying?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, so I like I'm curious how that this this works.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and there's still a lot of gray area because and I was listening to your um to your FTC uh episode, you know, in preparation, but um, you know, there was some really great points brought up that when the FTC was first introduced, like influencers didn't exist.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so these updates that kind of come in can only kind of as broadly as they can kind of cover the changing times, but I think there it really brings it back to ethics.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, I have to love a product in order to guarantee a review.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it has to be a brand that I believe in.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, like just face-to-face conversation, obviously, like talking on the phone or Zoom, but like that kind of that conversation can be so enlightening for whether or not I want to work with a brand.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um their journey, right?
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like their brand journey.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you know, just to like to meet the founder and kind of like get a feel for them, you know, because anyone can can draft a really well-thought-out email, but you know, conversation tells you so much more, you know.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm really passionate about independent brands and brands that are trying to change the narrative or bringing forth a perspective that hasn't been given the light that it's needed, you know, in in years and decades and centuries.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um but also kind of I think looking to those.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: I've recently kind of fallen back in love with the icons products, you know, the products that are like top sellers that people really love and kind of come back to.
• 14:25
  unknown: Yeah.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because they are they're an interesting benchmark, and sometimes they and maybe I'm rambling, but you know, I think No, no, please.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: This is amazing.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you think I'm just like sitting here thinking about everything you're saying.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: I know, I'm like, this is me like at 10 o'clock at night lying awake, like thinking about Estee Lotter double wear.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um No, I do it too.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's okay.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's why I'm like so excited that we're talking.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, tell me, tell me about the um the benchmark brands.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like, give me some examples.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and this is a good point to bring up, but um, there was a former Mac executive who shared her story of harassment, um, who, you know, was like kind of stalked, followed, um, and then sort of gaslit into thinking that nothing was wrong when she went to kind of report it.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's part of a bigger conversation and and looking at these iconic brands and these, especially these um companies that own a lot of brands like Estee Lauder, like L'Oreal, um, you know, like Shiseido.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think it's important to revisit those brands and also to kind of, I mean, especially with the news changing every day and with Times Up and with Me Too and with Black Lives Matter, all of these movements we've seen over the past five, six, seven years.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's only it can only be a good thing.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's it's I think there's a lot of work that goes behind it.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I mean, I think that's what people aren't understanding.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, that's what actually, I'm not kidding.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: That is one of the big biggest reasons I reached out to Andrew from Maybelline.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: He's the global uh marketing director for Maybelline because I really wanted to debunk this idea of well, there's white men sitting there and they have no idea what beauty is.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's wrong.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like that's not true because there's a lot of marketing research that's being done.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of these huge brands aren't just huge because it happened.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: Or like somebody gave them the right amount of money.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: No, they they have a huge following of people and to like give them the the credit and the honors that they deserve is important because I'm not gonna lie to you, like, you know, growing up for me, Maybelline was awesome.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I I could go to the store and find Maybelline products and be like, I feel like I can wear lipstick today, or I feel like I can wear my foundation because it matches my skin.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, like to revisit them, I think that's very, very important.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: I agree with you.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: And to hope that they're listening to the demands that consumers are making, that I mean, especially editors and people in the content creation space who are saying, you know, this isn't acceptable.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it hasn't been acceptable for a long time.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: But now that we've got all of these voices kind of chiming in at once saying enough is enough, you know, I just hope that that, you know, even though these in certain instances these are really big companies and really big brands, but I hope that if enough people kind of make their voice heard, that that change will come, you know, and not just informative change.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: Well, also it's like, okay, how do you feel about this?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Because this is something that I have really been struggling with in the last year because I originally had that dermal unity account and then I started the screen care anarchy, but I was confused about how everybody wants every brand to be completely like 50 shades of foundation, you know what I mean?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like every possible like combination of ingredient, you know, like that kind of thing.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, I just don't think it's logical.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I'm saying?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I just don't think that's a logical approach for people to have.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how do you what do you think about that whole conversation?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, I think it's good that we that people are taking strides towards doing better.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it Fenty's a great example, right?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: They came in and they said, this isn't, this is part of our DNA, you know, that you have a place here that we can find your foundation color, that we didn't just do, you know, 40 shades, that they're shades that will actually work for real people, you know, they've been tested, they've been proven.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think they they obviously set a new standard.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it's not reasonable to expect every brand to have 50 shades of foundation, no, but it for their messaging to make someone who maybe wasn't able to find their foundation shade in the past and maybe is now able to, that they feel included and not just like like the a token, you know what I mean?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like tokenism.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and you know, I think if if a shade range and you know, if a shade range is well done, uh you don't need a hundred shades, you know, it can be done thoughtfully, and um and that's across all levels of coverage as well.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think I should also bring that up that you know, some brands will argue like our foundation is sheer, so we don't need as many colors, but even then it's about undertone and it's about context.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like someone might be using your tinted moisturizer under their foundation, you know, not just as a product on its own.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: So that's an excellent point.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: That is such an excellent because yeah, you're right, layering is a thing.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I layer, I I remember you remember Bare Minerals when they had their like, um, oh my gosh, because I was obsessed.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, I was obsessed, and I used to put that.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know how okay, this is so bad, but like a lot of beauty gurus were like, never put powder foundation on top of liquid foundation.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: I was the girl that did that.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: I would do that every day.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: And did it work for you though?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's that's what I'm saying.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do what works for you, right?
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why I'm like, that's where I think this whole conversation for me is like I think about that because I'm like, dude, I mean, it worked, right?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's like at the end of the day, I got the look I wanted.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: So what's the problem if every single person can't do the same thing?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it's not, you know, it shouldn't be about that.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, there have been like makeup artists over the years who have like revolutionized technique.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, for example, we're talking about like um, like Kevin Aquan is obviously a recent example.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: He didn't invent contouring, but like, you know, applying colors underneath foundation to change to sculpt the face.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's that's sort of if you if you think about it, maybe not a generic rule, it's more theatrical, but it's a technique and it changed the way people did their makeup, you know what I mean, for a certain period of time.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: So yes.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: And and I mean that's that's like those are all techniques that are always coming out.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: Do you like Wayne Goss on YouTube?
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: Because I love his work.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I love his brushes, brilliant brushes, they're investment pieces, but I can tell they're gonna last for a long time.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: But but my point is is like these kind of like the makeup artists that are constantly giving like the same the like they're basically echoing what you just said, and that like you know, this whole layering thing and this whole like mixing and matching and doing things till it works for you.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like, this is something I feel like it just needs to be amplified.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I'm saying?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I think more people need to realize that and this individualistic aspect of beauty.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I know we're talking makeup, but that also applies to skincare, in my opinion.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's trial and error, and you know, makeup washes off, skincare washes off.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully, you don't have an allergic reaction to it.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, the moisturizer doesn't feel right, the texture is not right, you can rinse it off, you know, and start over.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: So tell me about okay, tell me about some of the brands that you you might have tried recently and you're really excited about.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'd love to hear.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: You actually had one of them on as a guest uh the other day, Booney Dune.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: That cleanser is phenomenal, beautiful ingredients, incredible delivery system.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: The packaging is fantastic, truly thought out.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: And You know, it's not often that I see a brand or a product that's truly different.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I get contacted by a lot of a lot of companies and it's almost like a mad lib of like different cities throughout the world and different antioxidants that they found and vitamins and like, you know, it just feels like a regurgitation of the same thing.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: I love Puja's vision.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: She is so like it was so cool, right?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: The the tapioca capsule like melting with water.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was just like blowing up.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I tried it and it does and it works.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm just like, I'm so excited that these technologies are coming out.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, you know, it's almost like I'm the biggest science nerd.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: And when I see science and beauty combined, I just go like, oh my gosh.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: And from someone who took the time to understand what they were talking about.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: Not just not just putting words into a machine and letting it spew out, you know.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I also love um Ode Self skincare.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they have this amazing toner that's got like um Heli Christom and Royal Jelly and Um bros and all these beautiful ingredients, super, super juicy.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh supernal cosmic glow oil.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I am like begging them to come on the show.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not even kidding.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: And Melissa the Founder is so like truly a kind person.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can tell she put her heart and soul into it.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's what I look for is you know, I'm more inclined to agree to try a product from a brand where it's you know a founder or a duo or a small team versus, you know, a huge company.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: Now, granted, it's nice to get those offers as well, you know, for for portfolio diversification.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, I feel like it's it's a closer experience.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: You can kind of, it's more intimate.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: You can kind of tell someone's thought process when the the product is really well thought out and performs and and does what they're claiming it's going to do, you know.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like you're more likely to get that from someone who I think maybe has more to lose because it's just them, you know.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it's uh it's their baby, like the business is their baby, and they want to make it, you know, make sure everything is done right.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: I love that too.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: I love independent brands, and I love that, you know, um, so many companies right now, um, I don't know if you've noticed this as well, they're they're popping up and it's just this huge, like almost I feel like it's returning, like we're turning a corner in skincare.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's it's like we're coming into this um area of not only more sustainability, but um just better products that we can use on the go, especially with COVID and the way our lifestyles have changed so much, you know, all that stuff.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I'm really curious to see what happens if we notice like a sort of uh at least a temporary shift in.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we've seen people focusing more on like eyeshadow tutorials and mask knee treatments, but I wonder if we don't see like a temporary to permanent shift in the beauty market, you know, in the kinds of products that are coming out and the the way that brands are positioning their products, you know.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, both for new and existing brands.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: Then what in your opinion, like what do you think is like the new, like the direction you want to see skincare go in?
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if like what direction do you think needs to be taken more right now?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: Well that's a hard question.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: It it is hard.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think, and I'm so guilty of this as well, just because I try so much stuff, but I think the conversation around sensitized skin and sort of antidotes to trying too much, using too many actives.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I look at a brand like The Ordinary who really made these uh kind of complex seeming formulas and ingredients more accessible.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I think with that, like you know, that peeling solution, that red gel, for example, it's a strong product.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: And you have people doing like micro-needling and then putting that on top, and then putting, you know, a 10% lactic acid serum on top of that.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and then I mean, bless the aestheticians who are hopefully getting some business from all of this, like I don't want to say it that way, but you know, I think the conversation around calming ingredients and soothing ingredients and kind of returning your skin to an equilibrium, I think is is is budding and it will become, I think, uh quite prevalent in the next few years.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: So look, and I completely, completely love that you said that because this whole sensitivity thing, I think, is like I honestly think people need to educate themselves more because I am a huge, like I hate the whole at-home microneedling thing.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I'm saying?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I just do not think that we should put any kind of medical grade product into our hands and then put it on our face.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, without poking holes in my own face.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, please, you can poke them for me.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm someone who's trained.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, exactly.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I just am so, you know, I feel like you're so, so right about this because you're right, people are just doing peel after peel.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like I think Dr.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um Nazarian brought this up on that new Netflix show with her and um Nurse Jamie.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: They said something about how there's just people who are just doing peel after peel after peel, and it's like literally like, what are you doing to your skin?
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: You're you're going to damage it to the point of scarring and you know, massive hyperpigmentation.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it just can lead to so many problems.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: And that for me, I don't know.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: I uh it kind of concerns me a little bit for consumers.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and you know, back in maybe 2015, 2016, I was doing freelance sales for Dr.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Dennis Gross, who obviously is really well known for peels.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I picked up really quickly on people who were really dedicated to them and maybe did them too frequently.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: You can really tell, like, you know, they have like it's shiny skin, but it doesn't look healthy, you know, it has an interesting kind of plasticky tightness.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of picked up on how to kind of look out for it.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, of course, with trying stuff myself and kind of experiencing like overdoing it, you know, I think it's sort of trained me to to pay be more aware of when my skin starts to give me the signs that it's you know, it needs to kind of calm down a bit.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you're right, people, you know, I think that's something that people should learn.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I also think it's you know, it's up to brands who are putting out these really potent products to have proper guidance and instructions.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: So guidance, dosing, can we just talk dosing?
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like I I brought this up with Dr.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: Natalia Spearings, and I was like, why do we like seriously at this point?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: We have so many brands, like you said, there's like all these actives, all these ingredients.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: Why is nobody thinking about putting like a dosing chart on the back of the bottle?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I'm saying?
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like, tell people exactly how much, like, you know, chemistry is a thing.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, chemistry is real, and we need to, you know, we need to actually, if we want to go into the science of it, I mean, we need to put that on the labels more than anything, not just ingredients.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, everyone can read an ingredient list and go, Well, I like that it has this and I like that it's got this, but then somebody like me is gonna be like, Well, what about um how much of this concentration is in every pump?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I'm saying?
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like that's important.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: And is, you know, and then you talk about packaging and stability and and so just like it, it's it's such a big picture conversation that I think to only focus on just ingredients or just um, you know, the the marketing story, it does a disservice to what the product is as a complete item, you know what I mean?
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: And part of a complete ritual.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: I completely agree.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: I completely agree.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, in terms of I want to get your opinion though, what what do you think about packaging?
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how important is packaging to you when you look at a product?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, you know, this is interesting that you bring this up because I've run into a few products where I love what's inside the bottle, but I don't like the bottle itself.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it's, you know, it's like this is good juice, like come out of the tube, you know?
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I think um, you know, the good thing is is that preservative systems exist for a reason.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, any reputable brand should have a robust preservative system so that will protect the product, regardless of the packaging.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, if you have a uh a formula that is light and air sensitive, it should be packaged, you know, according.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's important, but I also think, you know, there's still gray area.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yes, you want your vitamins to be in protective glass and airtight and all of that.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, as we're finding more ingredients like like a THD scorbate, for example, which is a little bit more stable in the presence of air, like you have brands that are using that as part of their marketing, you know, like it's okay that it's in a jar because the ingredient itself is more stable.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it can get a little hairy, you know, with like and convoluted.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's it's very and you know, my I think one of my biggest questions is that there's like there seems to be this like culture now in the skincare industry where it's like one ingredient is discovered, or what you just said, a new way of stabilizing an active is discovered, and then we have these exorbit exorbit uh claims about oh my gosh, this is it.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like everything else is negated, this is it, this is gonna work.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, let's all hop on this bandwagon and then let's see what happens.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: I just I do not understand where that comes from because the literature doesn't support it.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, I want to know from your standpoint, like when you look into ingredients and when you, you know, are just educating yourself about something you're interested in, where do you go for that information?
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: Do you go to PubMed or like how do you how do you yes?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm not the best at I guess digesting it all the time.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I try to read past the introduction and and to get into the meat of it, but it's still some of the language is a little, it's hard for me to understand.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I think if I can at least give myself a, you know, following certain accounts, like chemists and formulators that are good about sort of posting, like kind of Steven.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you know him, but Stephen Co.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he always does these really great graphics on, you know, um hyaluronic acid and vitamin C stability and um preservatives.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, and then he does a great job of like linking to these sources.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: So absolutely a turn to influencers, but you know, a quick Google search and a dig through anything that doesn't seem like a blog from a brand's website, you know, yes will at least give you a way to into it, you know, a starting point.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: And that's I love that.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: I love that because it's like, you know, everything's not gonna be on pod.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's why I asked you because uh a lot of times I go onto PubMed and I'm like, I don't know anything.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: I can't find the research, I can't find the article, so you know it's it's just not there.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: So in that regard, it's like, do I completely disregard the skincare product or do I dig somewhere else?
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's a huge like missing link there.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: If if you, you know, in my opinion, I think the influencers a lot of times know a lot more than some people who are maybe marketing these products.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because you know, if I were to talk to you, you can tell me in depth about certain ingredients, but then I get a marketing person from a small line and they're not gonna be, I don't think they know as much.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: And and they're making these claims, and that's where I have a problem, right?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it's you know, you just you can't you can't make claims you don't know about.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like you just can't do it.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's okay to say you really like this or you think this is gonna work for your skin because of these reasons or this, but when you're saying as a company, um, we have this, and that you know, this product is going to definitely do all these things because we changed this aspect, there's no data backing you up, you know?
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: And there's that that's where I become like I have a problem, and that's where I turn to more of beauty experts and you know, um, people because you guys do the homework, you do the homework that no one else seems to be doing, in my opinion.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and that's where you get into the gray space uh we could talk about gray space, um, of brands who are um, you know, who maybe, like you're saying, don't have that knowledge.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I the reason I bring it up is I have worked for a number of brands.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of it has been on a freelance basis, but some of it has been, you know, working on the team.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, there's marketing language, you know, there's there's ways that you can talk about a product where it doesn't seem like a claim, but it's sort of it is almost like the appearance of wrinkles, the appearance of redness, you know, um a lifted and smoothed feel, you know, versus actually lifting and smoothing your skin.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it it you kind of have to dig through that as well, and and beyond just the press release, beyond just the the lingo.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that's why it's so impressive when you see a brand that launches, like I that's why I bring up Booney Dune, because there's like, you know, the colloidal oatmeal that they're using, and you know, the gentle surfactant, like these are things that are sort of established, you know, that we have the data on.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's just it's been being reinterpreted in a new way, in a new format.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that's where I think we're in an interesting place with these trailblazing brands who are trying new things, but also these brands that are bringing out products with ingredients that like alloscorpic acid and niacinamide and retinoids that are proven.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, there's two camps, and where I like to see where I'm interested in is where they overlap, you know.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: I get you.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's interesting.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's really interesting because um, you know, using old and older, I don't want to say old ingredients, but it's basically, right?
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, proven ingredient, exactly.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: Proven ingredients using them, there's nothing wrong with that at all.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you make such a brilliant point about uh Booney Dune because yeah, use something that works and just you know, take it further almost.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, take it one step further.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, look at it from a completely different angle, you know?
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah, a hundred percent.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: So, okay, Chris, one one last question for you because I'm so I just I want to know what you think is like upcoming and like what the hot hottest brands are next.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I'm so bad about um keeping up with all the new releases and stuff.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: So is there something you're looking forward to, like a release uh coming out in the skincare industry?
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, um I'm actually really interested to see where devices go.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, like the New Face, like uh Foreo just released their bear device.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I think that technology and that sort of accessibility of being in home is I think really appealing to people, especially now, um, you know, especially people who are fortunate enough to be able to work from home and you know have that flexibility in their budget to buy, you know, an at-home device.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's I think it's really interesting because it it works, you know, a lot of these times the microcurrent works, you know, there's proof that it works.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people, if they can save a trip to the their esthetician, their dermatologist, make a you know, a one-time investment and sort of be done for a while.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, I wonder if we won't start seeing that with other devices.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I haven't.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, Chris, you're gonna love it.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: Seriously, I'm not even joking.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um droplet writing this.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I literally I interviewed them, and you need to look up droplet because this is the coolest technology.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: Wait till you see their technology.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm telling you, this is the next thing on in skincare.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: They're basically delivering these tiny um vesicles of the actives into you, like deeper into your skin layers.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wait, wait, wait.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: Is this like uh sort of like the Alginist Genius?
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like Chanel.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of, but it's like a it's a defa, it's like a misting device.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like they ooh, okay, yeah.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I love okay, written down.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I really want to hear your your uh thoughts on that when you try it because it is I'm dude.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like I literally used it one day and my skin, I had a like a terrible reaction.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: I used it one day, my entire skin looked better the next day.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like it, it's really good to know.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm super, super excited for you to try it and tell me what you think because I think you're gonna love it.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: Can't wait.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so okay, awesome, Chris.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for coming on the show.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, this has been so cool, and I'm gonna invite you on, you know that, right?
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like multiple times.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, I would love that because I just I love I love talking skincare with somebody else who, you know, it just loves it.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: And you I just you know, you have such a I think our journeys are very similar.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna lie to you, um, with the whole acne thing and you know, just the the the feeling that we you have when your skin doesn't look the way you want it to, you know.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: I I really relate with you on that.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for coming on the show.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, guys, everybody listening out there, please give um Chris a follow.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he's on Instagram and obviously YouTube, right?
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: So um please, please, please go check out his page.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's some really cool stuff on there, amazing products.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_02: I honestly go on there and um cheat and I look at what you like and I reach out to those brands.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna lie.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_02: So please please give Chris a follow.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then also follow us.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: Please subscribe to our podcast.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: Please rate it um on iTunes, Spotify, and then leave questions for Chris and I on the um podcast art for this episode, and we will definitely answer them.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'll redirect them to you, Chris, any questions I get.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: So um yeah, thank you so much, and I will talk to you guys next time.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 39:37
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• 39:42
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• 39:45
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• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: And that's very important for me because I love to hear from you guys and really understand what you love and what you want to hear more of.
• 40:07
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• 40:10
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• 40:16
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• 40:20
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• 40:25
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• 40:30
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• 40:37
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• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.