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Occultinarium - EP 3 - Our Path to the Occult · OCCULTINARIUM

• Voices of the Occultinarium: is a disclaimer. During the recording of this episode, the audio demons were having a party, so has affected ⁓ some of the audio in this Now obviously, ⁓ they never apologised, so we made sure that there's subtitles just in case if something's unclear. Enjoy. Lynn: Hello and welcome to the Occultinarium . We are the voices of the Occultinarium . You are talking to Luigi: Luigi Adriana: Have you had Adriana Amelie: and Amelie. Lynn: Awesome. Hello everybody. In episode, we wanted to talk a bit about our personal paths ⁓ the ⁓ ⁓ our own witches road or ⁓ you might want to call it. But we realized last time when we introduced ourselves, we did not actually talk about how we know each other. Luigi: Hi! Amelie: Hello, hello. Lynn: So I thought maybe we should that before start off. So ⁓ how we know, each other? ⁓ Adriana: So, so Luigi... Luigi is the culprit. ⁓ Luigi: TMA. Well, that too, I suppose. Lynn: Yeah. Yeah, so we were all students. We were all students of the Tarot Mysticism Academy, which is an amazing place. We can plug him Joe Monteleone who's running it in the USA. a very good, yeah, ⁓ it's a school teaching the mysticism the of Tarot. And it's great. And you make of friends there, as you can see. So that's very lovely. Luigi: Yeah, we- Amelie: Absolutely. Lynn: That's how we know each other. Misfits. Misfits. Tarot Misfits. Luigi: Yeah. From all over the globe. Amelie: Yeah. And I guess because everyone was from all over the place because of the time differences, Luigi had greatest idea to create a European one just so we could have a little bit of practice on the side. so this group was created and in the group we were. ⁓ Adriana: But. Lynn: Yes, and then this is another group of Luigi: Yeah. Amelie: And this is another group of the group. They're branches basically, we're just branching out. Adriana: But I think that was like Luigi: Lots of subsidizes. Lynn: Yes. Adriana: like the energy of the European group that somehow we kill it. We were meant to be together before us. We we similarities and associations and affections that make us like a ⁓ friendship, really, know, linked, we are related emotionally, there's a lot that is related to all of us. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. that's how we know each other. Luigi: mystical connection. Adriana: Luigi, for all of you, Luigi is the man. Luigi is the right person to tarot because it's like, I mean, encyclopedia with legs of tarot No, because not only the knowledge, it's about the association and the input that you associate astrology with. Luigi: Aww. Lynn: you Luigi: You'll make me blush. Adriana: real life is ⁓ Kabbalah, meaning ⁓ each symbolism numerology. You do ⁓ group everything to give you a message to guide you. I that you have mastered all these things. And explain it very well. Luigi: Thank you. Thank you. And yes, we are unique drops of water in a beautiful ocean. Lynn: Yeah. Adriana: Yeah. Okay. Lynn: We are. A thing that we're going to do and what I just did is that we will for each of our episodes, one of us will draw a tarot card because we are all linked with the tarot and that's how we got to know each other. So we'll draw a random card and at the end of the episode, we will reveal it and talk about it. And today that was random. who will draw and that was me today and I just pulled it. So nobody knows apart from me what we will discuss at the end of the episode. So look forward to that. You can take guesses, you know, like, yeah, drop it in the comments what you guess it is. Awesome. We do have some technical difficulties today, so maybe that's a hint. Who knows? right. Oh, dear. Adriana: You Yeah. It has to be a major arcana today. Major arcana. Luigi: ⁓ okay. Amelie: ⁓ dear, it's all clear. It will... Luigi: have a few ideas. Lynn: It's Yes, let's jump into the episode then. So as start, I suppose it would be interesting to see how each of us individually actually started out on this witches road or path of the occult or yeah, ⁓ how we got it. If there ⁓ if there was sort of calling, if you may, or ⁓ or something random, how did it start? If, maybe Luigi do you want to start? Tell us about it. Yeah. Luigi: Yeah, sure, I can go for it. ⁓ I'll try, because in cases like this, you're trying to explain how did it all start, you know, there's so many things that influence the current circumstances that start forgetting where the root of your all actually started. ⁓ But yeah, so if I into a tangent, please rein me back in, because I have the tendency to go into tangents and rabbit holes. that's something, a trade that we all share, I suppose. Lynn: Absolutely. Amelie: I was about to say, don't worry, I think we all have that trait, so we will not judge. Lynn: yeah. ⁓ Luigi: Yeah, so you can refer to us as voices, but you can also refer to us as rabbits and bunnies. know, we like to dig a hole and get in there. I think for me, I don't know, I guess I've always been fairly naive, and I'm not saying that to be into the occult and into magic and tarot and witchcraft, you have to be naive. ⁓ But using the word naive because I deeply in magic since... ⁓ Amelie: No. Luigi: an age that I suppose you're not supposed to believe in magic anymore. you know, like all the things that you used to believe in still now, very deeply and very strongly, such as fairies and the ether and beyond the veil and the other world and spirits and so forth. But I used to hold that belief proudly up until I was 12, until there was a lot of bullying, sadly, in school. And then I started to draw back a little bit. But yeah, I think it all started with that. Lynn: Yeah Luigi: open-mindedness about, well, you can't prove otherwise, so why could it not be true? I guess my mom and dad, mostly dad I suppose, but they used to read me lot of fairy tales to either keep me quiet or to keep me entertained. Regardless of reason or the rationale, there was this exposure to magic beings and magic wands and books spells. And obviously I'm a massive for Disney, so that... also has its own influence. So yeah, I magic has always been a reason for me to entertain myself, to explore possibilities, I suppose. ⁓ And guess as of up until now, because I the pandemic has been a huge rebirth for a lot of us globally, suppose. But that's when found me in the pandemic through exposure of a friend. because was the time that none of us had anything to do, and we had plenty of time in our hands, thankfully, gratefully I suppose, and bunch us just started to get together online and have tarot sessions. At the beginning it was just my friend giving the sessions and eventually she said, do guys wanna learn? And that was the beginning of it all. Like I guess now I stick with the tarot, ⁓ I expand with the into magic and occultism, and yeah, it just keeps Lynn: Yeah, wow, so it was mostly like magic and ⁓ fairy tales, Disney and the tarot for you that got you into it in the first place. Yeah. Yeah. Luigi: Yeah, I would say the Fairy tales, magic and Disney. Amelie: you Lynn: ⁓ How was it for you, Amelie? Amelie: For me, think for me, fairy tales, ⁓ obviously when I was a kid, was, I reading quite early, even though it took me a very long time, but the fairy tales I was reading were like the more slightly, fairy tales with that more of gruesome thing, you know, ⁓ with like ⁓ red ridning but like the more scary. Lynn: you Yeah, the original versions. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Amelie: Version of it like the more real ones the original versions of things, you But yeah, like I mentioned before my grandmother was was very into like ⁓ angels. I Was born in Poland and a very Catholic country, but much she was just very into angels and She had these amazing stories that she always used to tell me like bedtime stories, but they were not like, I guess they were not like bedtime stories. They were supposed to like teach you something you know, how you're supposed to be kind or very so. And she of taught me that, you know, there are things like beyond and ⁓ I think it quite natural me to that around my godmother as well she really liked to come and like she used to do these ⁓ palm reading and she used to do like this ring reading thing and she was into things like that too. So I think it was quite ⁓ normal me in a way to have that around but it was never like... it was just like ⁓ the prettiness it. It just feels like it was more like a little bit more like witchy. Lynn: grittiness, the dark stuff, ⁓ Amelie: a bit gritty exactly exactly what I thinking like he's a little bit more like gritty and also because uh guess the the Slavic gods as well they're like it's just very like you know like Baba Yaga was like one of my favorite like stories I was told so it was never like too pretty and I think that's why I have like I really like the Lynn: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Amelie: A lot of people say it's like the darker aspects of things, but to me it's just like a balance. It just feels more real. It just feels more honest to me. it also kind of like, it's a kind of a voice of caution when working with magic as well, which I think kind of creates, you know, there should ⁓ a little of ⁓ caution in there as well. ⁓ And, you like are you compared to do something because you know, yeah, are consequences to ⁓ you do with it. just personally, like when it comes to magic, it's like a tool. It really depends on what you do with it and how you, and it's anything, anything from like nature to metaphysical to anything, I think. ⁓ And I like that. But... ⁓ Lynn: I think that's a really good point with the tool, it depends on how you use it. ⁓ Amelie: Yeah, it's the same thing with like herbs and medicine and things like that that I had. It's very much so something that, you know, is like, it could be poison, but it can also help you, which, yeah, but I just, think that was like my first, my first initiation to magic without even me thinking it was magic, but it was magic. Thinking about it now, I'm like, that was actually magic. Lynn: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Awesome. Adriana, how was it for you? How did you start? How did it start for you? Adriana: think that ⁓ natural but unconscious way. think we are born like this, you know, is something that is not for everyone. But I think we are very little of who we are born of when we decide to come into this body. We already have been taught that this type of the spirituality or mysticism or whatever you want to call it. don't like to be labeled to things, to me they are what they are. But I think since I was like two years old, I have memories and I recall things. So for me I think it has been part of my life since very little. When I was like ⁓ four or five, I started seeing and seeing like energy, like... I felt like I was flying over my body. felt like leaving my body. I could see myself down. I could feel I sometimes had to grab myself. from the edges of my bed because I was sitting, there was nothing. There was like a voice that used to talk to me. So for me, it's different episodes. I'm coming from a very Catholic country, very traditionalist. so, just you see the... It was amazing the house that it just had burning flames and herbs and people inside the house and people looking at me like it's scary. I had been a surprise like an often times, you know. So, but it was always keeping everything by myself in my own because I didn't dare to speak to anyone. I knew things again that would happen or people would die. I knew it. And I still know the religion of it. So a lot of my clients I know perfectly well they are going to pass, you know. So I think yes for me, it's nothing that I can say that my childhood brought it to me. I think I was born like this. But I just when I was an adult, mature woman, I decided to accept this and to be open. I can say to people this, this is me. but I always like to hide it. Lynn: Yeah, right. Yeah, that's not it's not been easy for for everybody for sure. Like this path is not it's not the easiest. Adriana: No, particularly, but in an unnatural way, think animals used to come to me, but when they were suffering, I used to go to collect abandoned dogs and animals to just use hands and treat them and people were asking me to put my hands on them because they feel a relief and feel better when I was touching them. it's very solitaire to always be with myself, with my own. Yeah. Lynn: Yeah, thank you Adriana Amelie: What about you, Lynn? How did it start for you? Luigi: I guess the road. Lynn: Yeah, thank you. question. It's a reflective work, isn't it? Because ⁓ like you guys also said, it's like, well, when did it start? And as a child, you don't always like realize that what you're doing, is it normal? Is it magic? Is it, you know, whatever? I don't know. ⁓ And just remember like I have strangely very good memory. So I memories from when I was three years old or, know, Amelie: Hahaha! Adriana: Thank Lynn: and from then on. And I've always had like probably everybody, but I've always had imaginary friends. And back then it was like, you know, I mean, obviously people will tell me, you know, these are imaginary. So for me, I just thought, They're just, you know, ⁓ people and animals that I'm making up. ⁓ Now looking back at it, not so sure, you know, ⁓ but for me it was you know, and I remember so much that when I was a child, world was And this is something that I can't say it with words, but I feel it's very hard to actually land on people because it's not like I felt like the world was a fairy tale ⁓ or And I did not see fairies and stuff, you know, it was not like glitter and woohoo. But I had connection, I feel, with my surroundings and with this innate thing that children have of just exploring things and the world always being something new that it was, I feel like I was connected with a world that for me was natural. But when I got older, it was just like, no, this is not a thing. You know, this doesn't, that's just fantasy. that I'm almost 40 years old, it makes sense, right? But it didn't make sense to me when I was much younger, when I started realizing that I had this particular feeling about the world. Adriana: Boom. Lynn: And then I mean, you know, life happened and I was always interested in like the weird stuff. know, I was always also like, Luigi said he was naive and in a sense like this childlike innocence and just being open to things. I've always had that and I've never stopped it. Like I was always very like into. being open. I don't know whether fairies are real or not, know, say me as a 12 year old, right? So I'm not saying they're not real, you know? And that kind of mindset is kind of a mindset I've ⁓ kept forever. remember then when I was a teenager, I ⁓ got very into parapsychological. I was a big ⁓ X-Files fan. for me it was always like you know ghosts and maybe UFOs and you know UFOs and I was just like I want to believe I had the poster on my wall you know and I never saw actual apparitions I never saw on UFO I was very disappointed I never knew of like There being witches in my family, but I also do not know my family. I just know like one generation, like two generations behind me. But I always hoped for this big revelation, you know, some great grandmother coming in like, am a witch and so are you. ⁓ And that didn't happen. didn't happen like that. Yeah, I was the kind of child who also got bullied in school for being different, of course. I was a weird kid. And my own actually was one of the people who unfortunately one I remembered it's just sticking to me because I was always in these, I always had stories in my mind and I was still seeing things like when I was older and she just told me like to stop being in fantasy world all the time. and ⁓ and that hurt you know that hurt ⁓ you know you get over it yeah yeah it really it's stuck it was yeah but ⁓ yeah Luigi: Where does that never leave you? Amelie: Yeah, I can also say like yeah, I was definitely bullied at school as well. Maybe because I was weird but also I have freckles and that was not a good thing to have when you were little. Apparently it's like some kind of witchy thing, I don't know, it was just not like... Lynn: Mm. Mm. Right. true yeah I think there's something about it or like witches marks that you have like particular I remember that in school that sometimes people were like yeah if you have like if you have like a little dot here that means you're a witch or something then people will be like ⁓ like I have one there but it's it was not always the same place either like sometimes I think it was if you have one in there and I don't know I don't remember exactly but there was something yeah Amelie: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think when I was very little, was like, it a bit sad to like be the outsider. But I feel like when I got into like ⁓ teenage, more like a teenager, I kind of like took that as, you know, well, you think I'm a witch, well, you better be afraid of me then. I kind of like ⁓ did instead because I was just so sick and tired of people telling me, you know. Adriana: Thank Lynn: Yeah. Amelie: that I'm weird. Also my mother was like, why can't you just be like your friends? was like, it kind of stuck with me in a sense of like, I always try to fit in when I'm ⁓ like people, just like people. ⁓ But you know, that's not the true me, obviously. Adriana: Goose. Lynn: Hmm Yeah, right. yeah, I also had that. Adriana: the same. I have the same, it's very funny because I think there is a common denominator here about that innocence and ⁓ taking as we see it, as we think they are real, you know. But as well I have issues with my mom. She put me therapy and ⁓ Lynn: Hmm Adriana: made face for me and Their personality morphed you know. It's like I was not, there was not a cage or a box for you know. So ⁓ I grew up lonely. I up trying to fit and I realized that as much as I wanted to fit or the. there was always something that we didn't connect And yes, my mother was a big influence for me to try to mask and to hide myself inside to myself. Because you want to have a peaceful life. You want to people to, if they don't understand you, at least to accept you. as you are, because you are discovering every day. It's not that come with a manual. It's not that you prepare. It's we still, at this time of our life, we still discovering new things every single day. growing up for us is not the same thing, easy, because we are not in the norm. We are people who somehow we came to this. ⁓ universe in this dimension and so on for a purpose that is very different to the way as others can see And accepting who we are is what this group gave me. ⁓ know, we have a conversation one day, I told you, I'm very grateful because I have been always feel very lonely. couldn't not speak about this subject. But ⁓ people create an stereotype you must be like this, even if you are a Lynn: Mm-mm. Adriana: They have the stereotype of the pointy noise only with the hat and the ⁓ ⁓ the witches are the most sexy people in the planet. But I love the contrast. love that ⁓ we not only one thing. We are not... Lynn: Yeah. Amelie: I ⁓ Lynn said before. Adriana: I cannot find words to describe what I feel or what I am now. But it's from the whole to the essence, to the origin, to the source. And that's the thing that we have to aim is whatever we are. you know, is trying to be the most essential part of it. And by growing up, very difficult. up with mothers who want, I want the best for you, please behave in this way, you know, and the therapist telling my mother, is, we cannot describe what she is because, know, it's a lot Lynn: Yeah, absolutely. But I think essentially though, you like on a path that is... say different than most other paths or say like you know this kind of weird path everyone you have to work through some resistance probably to actually get there or you can also discuss whether it's you know a test from the fates or you know from whatever ⁓ gods one believes it's like you need to show us you really want it you know there's this idea so it's like you know you know maybe maybe it's a thing But that actually also brings me to the the next point because like how like it been for you guys? Like we can start on Luigi, but like have there been any big life-changing events for you that changed something or were there any like say, signposts that were like in your face like okay you need to do this ⁓ and there resistance ⁓ on path or was it smooth? Luigi: That's a good question. Okay, so I can find the words to explain this properly, you whether it's about ⁓ magic, occultism, or even things beyond that, you in any type of ⁓ interest passion and career and vocation, shall we say, I think it's all about ⁓ the ⁓ of you know? So if it is something that you as an individual utterly and thoroughly enjoy, not the beginning, that's the beginning, the middle, and the end. That's the whole point, that's the whole purpose, that's the whole source of it. So I think, I don't know, I'm gonna make some statements here and they may not resonate with the wider crowd. So please bear with while I make these statements. ⁓ What I'm trying to say, you know, ⁓ the door I'm trying open is I fear Lynn: Go for it, go for it. Amelie: Open the gates! Lynn: make statements. Luigi: I either feel or fear that there's a big number of us that definitely goes through life, not they chose that that's what they want to do, that's how they want to behave, that's who they want to become. ⁓ But fair there's a lot of circumstances to take under consideration. It could be like an environmental circumstance, ⁓ sociological ⁓ But think also there is a fair amount of people that could have the option and the choice. ⁓ or the freedom to choose rather, but they let for whatever reason and sometimes for no fault of their own, opinion or the view of others, whether it's family or friends or society altogether, ⁓ what they should like, who they should be. ⁓ I think it's a conversation also that is very close to my queer identity, I suppose, that's, ⁓ know, it holds... it holds ends with that, know, the magic and the bohemian lifestyle with the queer lifestyle and beliefs, etc. So yeah, I think it would stem from a point like this is what I like and I want to feel like I'm allowed, I want to allow myself, I want to empower myself to say out loud, I like this, without shame, without hesitation, without second guessing. So yeah, I think since I left school, there's lot of masks that apart or fell down. ⁓ There was longer a need to validate someone else. ⁓ There was a need to look at myself in the mirror, in my case, to look at myself in the mirror and say, this is who I am and this is what I like and this is what I want. A lot of reframing, a lot of rediscovering, et cetera, cetera. ⁓ So in terms magic, ⁓ As far as I'm concerned, during the pandemic, because I was like, I'm an adult now and I was an adult in the pandemic still. ⁓ it was easier to fall into a quirky path also because of my theatre background. So when it comes to the theatre industry, nothing is very much ⁓ standard. You know, you already are on a path of quirkiness to an extent. So yeah, there was no difficulty in acknowledging, thankfully, that that's what I truly love. especially because I recognized the difference that he made in my life back in my childhood and the difference that it started to make in my life in the back then, present moment and the present moment right now. And I have all the faith and the belief that it's gonna make a difference every single day going forward. And when I say making a difference, I'm not talking about, you I am now the richest man in the world. I am now the most successful CEO. Amelie: Why not though? ⁓ Lynn: Yeah. Luigi: Well, maybe, who knows? But you know, I mean more like... It just makes life more special. It just makes every day... Every day should be unique to begin with, ownership your passions, the ownership of the love that you have towards a certain idea ⁓ ideal it just creates an extra layer of speciality, ⁓ if that's even right word to use in this context. Yeah. Lynn: not to be super stupid but I could also I could just say you know magic makes life more magical Luigi: Yeah, just as simple as that. It makes life extremely more adventurous and extremely more unpredictable and it fills it with surprises. And again, it's the if, the what if, know, because there's nothing that we can say for certain, even as ⁓ people that practice divination on a regular basis, there's still nothing that we can say for certain. So think magic gives you the X factor that keeps you on your toes, happily so. Amelie: Yeah. Adriana: Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Lynn: Hmm. Hmm. How... you, yeah. ⁓ How you, ⁓ Amelie? Did you have any, like, big life-changing events that triggered something you or anything that was like, you shall go here or... Yeah. ⁓ Or was smooth for you? Amelie: don't know, I when was ⁓ maybe, I ⁓ thinking thinking about this, I find it very difficult to find this one moment, but there was loads of different moments. When I was very young, as in ⁓ maybe three years old, I always had this reoccurring dream, which always triggered me. I had this dream that I was buried... Okay. Lynn: ⁓ hmm. Amelie: buried alive in a cemetery inside a church when you know when they have those crypts and I was like always at the bottom there and there was always like wolves around trying to get in and that was like a reoccurring dream the fact that like thinking about it now I'm like ⁓ am I did not know it there ⁓ but but was like that was something that I like kind of like Lynn: Right, yeah. You are a vampire. You are. Amelie: I mean, I told my mom, but obviously she was like, it's just a dream, but it was a reoccurring dream. So I just got used to it. I also, like you mentioned, had like, um, imaginary friend that I used to talk to. And I mean, I was the only child and I did spend a lot of time by myself as well. So I guess I assume that's just normal, but I'm not sure. I think it's pretty normal when you're a kid. Um, yeah. And I just. I think because I had these recurrent dreams, for me it nothing weird. It was just normal because I had them. But when I got older, I really got into like, well not much older, but when I started going to school, ⁓ I got into ⁓ planets. I that really fascinating. I ⁓ wanted to an astronaut and I was like, yeah, that would be so cool. I really want to go out of space. Lynn: Hmm. Amelie: I think that kind of like opened up these ⁓ possibilities because whatever you were reading about outer was like the black holes and the stars and ⁓ I that was really cool. I was definitely really into like Saturn because he had wings ⁓ and like, mean the orbit, it was just like, I love that stuff when I was And I think... I'm very sure, well I don't know what it was, so yes it was an unidentified object, in the sky. I think it was some kind of UFO, it was something weird that I also like seen and that was like one of the experiences I thought like my god like even is it a or is it a, even if it's something normal it was not normal when I it. So I think that kind of triggered something as well like my god. I mean, there might be things out there that I just... that we just don't know about. So I... yeah, that was a bit triggering. And also, I think when I was in school, because I went to school in Sweden, so I was always jumping from country to country at this point, but I went to school, like my school was like in Sweden. And obviously we did read a lot about like the Vikings and stuff. and there was a lot of mythology and all of this and the teachers always kind taught like, ⁓ these are stories, these are old stories. And I was always like, yeah, but what if it was real? What if it actually happened? ⁓ And just laughed at me like, ⁓ but this is just mythology, it's just stories ⁓ with like Greek mythology and like all of this. And to me, I'm just like, I always knew like there's definitely something. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Right, yes. Amelie: in it. You could, just don't write a random story like that. Lynn: No, that was actually a big trigger point for me, kind of what you're talking about now. For me, the first big things that I remember that happened in that regard was that I was also raised in a very Catholic surrounding and we were obligated to have a religion in school. So you're being taught about religion and Jesus and the Christian religions. And I remember this was when I was a teenager, I think maybe I was 13, 14 something. And that was the only time that we touched upon other belief systems. So we had probably like one week or maybe two weeks where it was about like the previous small religions, you know, the old inferior ones. So we had like a day where we talked about, you know, the Norse /Germanic like Odin, Thor, and the Mesopotamian touched upon and ⁓ I don't what else but it was, know, some of these and of course Buddhism and I think they got maybe a day or so where we talked about Buddhism but not much more. ⁓ And my teacher, said to us, was like, I mean, bless her, she was like, ⁓ yes, ⁓ many people especially age, try something new. But usually everybody comes back to their originals, to the origin and the roots. And I sat there, like rebellious 14 year old, was like, saying going back to our roots. ⁓ And was like, but we just learned that our roots aren't even Christian. So it's like. Okay, I'm gonna show you. know, mean it's when I was like, huh, you know, this is interesting. You're going back to the roots. Okay, let's see. And then actually that triggered like me to to go and ⁓ ⁓ pagan roots much And I getting books and I was reading ⁓ up on the mythology and everything. And that's actually where I started to shift away from Christianity. I mean, already there was like more than questioning it. was already like, yeah, I don't think I really believe in God and Jesus anymore, you because like, you know, I was old enough to see all the discrepancies and all the things that didn't make sense and how the church behaved towards its people and all that. And it just didn't sit right with me. Like, I just felt this. It's very much taking I know this is a loaded subject, so, you know, but we're witches. So here we go. ⁓ Luigi: Something to think for future episodes. Lynn: Yeah, so, it's very loaded. I've always felt like this. you know, also this thing with like, ⁓ know, ⁓ is your, you know, you're all the sheep and God is your herder. And I'm like, yeah, but what happens with the sheep? ⁓ you know, it's like, if you think the thought through, ⁓ get eaten by the wolves or by the humans and whatnot. So I'm like, this is not, ⁓ this is not it. And ⁓ Amelie: Yeah. They get eaten by the wolves. Lynn: while I was getting into this and I started to and contact the old gods and whatnot or pray to them. I don't know, but I don't remember exactly what I did. ⁓ what I remember was that in all my upbringing as a Christian, I did believe in God. Like when I was a child, I believed in God. I believed in Jesus. I prayed to God, you like you do, know, and I. was normal practice for me. did that and I liked God and I liked, you know, what was taught. But there was never an answer. You know, I was just praying and I thought for me that was normal because that's just how it is also in church. You know, it was just like we're doing these big things, but it's just ⁓ a one way And that's how it is. You know, maybe God hears you, maybe not. But, you know, you're just putting it out there, you're putting your prayer out there. Maybe he hears you. And then. ⁓ When I started talking to the pagan or pagan gods and it's for me it started with the Norse gods, right? It developed but it started with the Norse gods and when I started talking to the pagan gods and the spirits the thing that happened is that they started talking back that was like an experience for me that I had not expected. They ⁓ talking back like with signs me also with like Luigi: He Lynn: voice in my head, like I was getting messages back and I was like, what? This is a two way street? was just like how I had imagined it should be, but I was just so used to it being like one way and I'm like, I'm never going back ⁓ So so that was, that was a big trigger point or ⁓ one the big trigger points for me with. Amelie: You Adriana: hahahaha ⁓ Thank you. Amelie: that remembered when you were talking about Christianity and heavy on that was when I was a... I don't how, I must have been like maybe six years old, ⁓ yeah, maybe And it was in and I had to go like Sunday school with the nuns as you do because of religion. ⁓ And I always been I always questioned that. I I was like genuinely wanted to Lynn: Hmm. Hmm. Amelie: and ⁓ remember that once ⁓ asked in the classroom a nun know, if maybe like God the devil was the same person. ⁓ ⁓ just that after that, I was never allowed to go back to this again. Like I had this lesson again. And I remember asking my mom like, why aren't we having the religion thing on Sundays? And she's like, no, you know. ⁓ Lynn: love it. of that. Luigi: You Lynn: That is amazing! I love that so much! Yeah! We were too smart. Can't have smart people in the church. Luigi: They took away your membership. Amelie: That took away my membership, dammit. Adriana: Hahaha! Amelie: I just honestly wanted to know because you know how I was taught when I was a kid, know, like when there was a thunder, God was angry and you know, and then you had to be good and it was the same thing with Christmas and things like that. You don't get like a good present if you're not good. So in my head, I'm thinking like, so this devil and the God, like maybe it's the same person because why does God know when I've been bad? Adriana: Thank Amelie: like then someone must have told him like what I didn't really understand that concept. So I just honestly asked because obviously they must have said like do you guys have any questions? So I did have a question but it wasn't the correct one I guess. Luigi: Mm. Mm. Adriana: Mm. Luigi: Can I just say, Amelie, thank you for sharing this story. I know, because I wasn't there at the time and I'm trusting obviously in your feedback. ⁓ just find that because you were so young, I just find the action of simply, you know, escorting you out the doors and never letting you back in so uneducated for disrespecting to anyone out there, but it is so uneducated because rather than... you're given the opportunity to ask questions, you receive a question, rather than sit with the question, interrogate the question, explore the question, simply a full, how very dare you opening your mouth, how dare you having a curiosity away with never come back. I just think it's poor behavior from adults, especially adults, like ⁓ if they nuns, I'm assuming they have some, not higher level, the word they're looking for, but you know, like, Lynn: Yeah, for sure. Luigi: You need go to school to become a nun or to enter religion, isn't it? So you will assume that these people would be a bit more, if not open-minded necessarily, least a bit more educated to say, don't take your anger out on a child like that. Lynn: have a better argument or have an argument you know they could have argued you know argued no no no this is not the case and made a point but apparently they didn't so hmm ⁓ Amelie: Yeah, I mean, no, was... Exactly, I just thought they could have just like, blagged it and be like, absolutely not, you know, and just explain it and I'll be like, okay, I'll buy it because I was so young. But you know, they didn't say anything to me, they most likely spoke to my mother and said that, yeah, we don't want her in this class because Lynn: You Amelie: I know, maybe it's because I had an impact on the other kids there. Maybe that was the whole thing. don't really exactly. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Instigator. Yeah. She's dangerous. You had the witchy vibes, you know, you're gonna corrupt the entire village. ⁓ yeah. ⁓ totally. ⁓ wow. Adriana: you Luigi: You lead the torch. Amelie: had freckles, I mean. I was doomed from the start. Adriana: Boom. Luigi: It's slightly related but not entirely, well I suppose, basically when I was in kindergarten and I think it was 1997 and my favorite film at the time was the beloved classic Nightmare Before Christmas and I also went to kindergarten with the nuns and there was a day that they said, oh everybody's allowed to bring in your favorite film, we're gonna all watch it together once per week, you know, so each one of us gets a located slot, you bring your favorite film and everybody watches it. Lynn: you Luigi: comes my turn and bring the diamond for Christmas and I'm only laughing because the nun I think her name was ⁓ Sister Louise or something like that and she lost it she was in shock she was gobsmacked she told me how dare you bring this garbage into the kindergarten and I think I cried I don't remember like I don't look back on it thinking feeling a lot of pain but I do look back laughing thinking would you have a problem with such a ⁓ I was just upset that I didn't get to watch with my friends my favorite film Lynn: Oh, I understand that. Yeah, I just had a memory. I just had a memory because when I... It's not my memory, actually. It's from what my mom told me. But you know, like also because you all mentioned kindergarten. And when I went into kindergarten, so it was like maybe three or something, you have like sometimes like these conversations about like, what do you want to be when you grow up? And we had this conversation in kindergarten. And so we're like all sitting together in a circle and they're asking everybody, what do you want to be when you grow up? And then you have like all the boys are like, I want to be a policeman. I want to be a fireman. You know, I want to be a cowboy for the ones who are a bit more exotic. But most wanted to be like either, you know, fireman or police was like very popular. And then the girls were like, you know, like I want to be a princess. So, know, I want to like so they were mostly like, I'll be a princess. I don't know what the other said. And then they came to me. It's like, oh. Luigi: Yeah. Lynn: What do you want to be? like, I want to be a witch. And it took a while, I landed there. And I ⁓ no memory of this myself. And I don't remember also when my mom told me this, but I think I was was a grown up or I was like, you know, starting to ⁓ in in this like occult stuff when my mom told me. But I was like, yeah, that sounds like me. I'd be like everybody princess and woo woo woo and na na na. Adriana: Hahahaha ⁓ Luigi: haha Adriana: Woo hoo hoo hoo. Lynn: And I'm like, I wanna be a witch. Luigi: I'll wait true to her name or her words. Amelie: Wise choice. Lynn: I love it I love it. I love my child self, amazing. Yeah. Adriana: you Luigi: Adriana or Emily, do you guys remember what you wanted to be when you grew up? Like if anybody asked you. ⁓ yeah, you said, said, yeah. That's so avant-garde. Amelie: I wanted to be an astronaut. An astronaut. Astronaut. Yes, yes. I just like, I really, didn't like swings, but I definitely wanted to go out of space. But I couldn't even go on a swing because I felt really sick. So, I mean, I had done, but just, I did not care. I wanted to go out of space. I wanted to see what's out there. Lynn: Yeah. Yes. completely unrelated. No, completely unrelated. Adriana: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Lynn: Yeah, how about you Adriana? What did you want to be? Adriana: But very funny enough, I wanted to be a nun. ⁓ Lynn: Really, a Get out of here! Luigi: My drop. Amelie: That's mad. Adriana: I do want to back to Catholic school, private school for girls only, so there was no boys, nothing, just nuns. But I wanted also, I think these nuns, were very different. mean, Latin America, maybe, is not as rigid as here. In Europe, I found out when I arrived that I found that they were very, very rigid. Lynn: Mm. Adriana: When I grew up, it was more a message of love. Jesus was love. And we have to love everyone. Be humble and do something nice to somebody else. And that's the only thing that you need to do. You find here some dogma and things like that. You realize that you have two visions of Jesus and religion. But they don't say it's only... I was like 16 and something like that. I was too young. Then I had to be over 18 to join. never joined. I'm I took the opposite direction. I had lot of failures in my life, also. Paranormal things, difficult to explain. ⁓ Lynn: No. Right. Adriana: and a lot of fear and lot of resistance. on Yes, I have several ⁓ big moments ⁓ that different things. I had like an experience ⁓ funny because... Lynn: ⁓ big, big moment for you? Adriana: I went to visit a friend that were doing the WIHA table for me. And then I was not even doing myself. I just arrived and sat down there and the start things started moving and I felt something coming. And I told the lady of the house about a room in there. They say there is a dark spirit here and so on and so on. And then. I started having thoughts. I was driving my car and I wanted to kill myself and so I was spending the night in the house of my friend. She like a Japanese sword above her head. And I hold it here like in the middle of the night and I stick out her hair. said, no. And then the sword fell down right on top of the pillow where we were sleeping. So very, very like spooky things. And I always find old lady who was very powerful, ⁓ think to me was like voice for clairvoyance, mainly she was living with clairvoyancy. She, I think she told me, she got a suicidal spirit inside of you, and she make a ritual and... said to me, are extremely sensitive. You are ⁓ medium yourself. So she gave me name of a guy who killed himself and ⁓ where in cemetery was buried and so on. We went and checked and definitely he existed as he was in that cemetery. But after that we thought he was okay. inside of self and everything had disappeared. Then I was involved like in a gnostic circle. I think I feel a little bit used, I was to tell them things and to invoke spirit and to invoke it. It was mainly the Archangel Michael, and I saw it. in that circle, they put me in the middle everywhere around me. It was a experience that ⁓ a lot of things inside of myself. But again, ⁓ fear in you because you have been raised in one way that you cannot believe in that kind of thing, you cannot do that kind of things and so on. that is evil, that you know, and so you have always to be fighting these kind of things and believing the worst of yourself. You lose a lot of self-confidence trying to live in one world that you don't fit in or just see the things in a different way. So I decided to deny everything. I say no more, don't want this because you feel like a cold, you feel like the pressure that is pushing you and pulling you, like demanding more and more of you. And I say no. But the funny thing is because the episode after episode happened to me again, know, years later, I was moving to Paris and everything went like this, you know, it was like a... fast forward, visa, air travel, everything it meant to be. And in Paris I started having again more experiences. I remember I was going to uni and one day I was in the bus and they said, get off from here, get off. Now, now, and I jump out and there was a church in front. I get inside to the church and then. ⁓ There was a statue of the Virgin with a little Jesus. I don't know why I kneel and start praying. was having a little book of psalms with a very little new testament on my hand. And then ⁓ a fell down in my book. When I raised, the little had a little flower and one of the petals fell down ⁓ on my I don't know how because when I started praying there was nothing in that party. The hand didn't have anything on it. And I having conversation with friends and Lynn: Hmm. Adriana: she back to say to me that everything I said before happened to her. So people got a voice that was afraid of me, you know. And then I received like a call, move to the UK, move to the UK. And I got the ticket and I arrived to London without having a place where to stay. Nothing. And I was married by then and I persuaded my husband to come for a term to improve my English. So he came with me and... I didn't have a hotel. He met someone who was... my was his boss when were in Paris My wife is coming to study English and, you know, she doesn't have a place to stay No, she can live with us, you know. in the same day like that. So when I rushed to London several things happened. Then I got divorced and married again. had terrible life with a second husband. I was denying already all this spirituality. I didn't tell anyone nothing about my spirituality. Lynn: Pfft. Adriana: another thing that changed my life definitely is when I was already in this house. I needed to find out what to do because I raising a baby who was 16 months old, all by Again, feel that force I feel I have episodes that the energy is so strong that I fall on the floor, you know, and I was crying and falling on the floor and asking do you want from me? And the next day it was on the letterbox a catalogue of alternative courses. And that's how I started 20 years ago. started going back to what I was probably meant to be since I was a child. people, were accusing me of being an witch. They took me to a church. they exorcise me like four times and you know the people again are afraid of me and things like that when in reality one of these guys who was doing the exorcising they said to no you are a special one you are not evil you are the opposite you came here to bring light to these people so I started studying energy healing and became a Reiki master and worked with spirituality and so on. I stopped having attacks or visitations of very sad souls or whatever. I started working more and understanding more how the spiritual world works. But it's still a working process. I will not end in this lifetime. everything, evil or angelic or whatever you want to call it, everything has the same purpose and yes Amelie . The devil is God and God is the devil as well. We are all one. That's very funny because they say, they say we are all one. I mean, come from physics, you know, because I have a physics background as well. So I love science. love. I love everything, know, but there is no black and white. It ⁓ is it is. That's the thing that we want to achieve is to reach that point of origin, essence, that we accept everything without judgment and we try to to ⁓ reach higher of evolution. Lynn: No. . Mm. Amelie: Kind of like is a good example of what we were saying before that sometimes you have to go through the bad things like an initiation to get to the point where you're supposed to be which definitely happened for you ⁓ that is a really good example of that. Lynn: Hmm Mm. Adriana: Yes. Lynn: you Adriana: Yes, because these initiations, it's almost like they are triggers, dramatic, but at the same time, are tools, they are helpers. And that is the beauty, you know, because I think everything is made from love and to love and to learn to love. I think there are two forces in the universe, it's love and fear. when we are in the most fearful situation, for example, arriving to London, not knowing where I want to sleep tonight, half an hour later, people who are going to lodge me in their house. And the same when I arrived to Paris, it was a very similar situation. It was even more. Lynn: Yeah here. Adriana: than the one in London, that you realize that the thing that we have to do in this world is to consult and to love our own peers. When you your peers, when you understand they are there for your good, because it's through them that you grow, through them that you discover the beauty of things around you and people around you. Lynn: Yeah, that's a very difficult, it's not a very easy lesson to learn and for sure, mean, whole life is a lesson. mean, for me, also gone through a life-changing traumatic event that in the end actually set on the path that I'm on now. And... Adriana: ⁓ How beautiful they're receiving. Lynn: was when I was like in ⁓ 20s and the thing itself is something that I've Not about for ⁓ most my life. Like I've just shared it with my best friend last year ⁓ So I was very like covered and I did never like I've talked about it one time to a half stranger and but the thing is that I I mean I I went through very big loss of the love of my life basically. And I've lost several times, for good, a few years ago. traumatic stuff. when first lost her, I crashed My entire system. I went into depression for... deepest depression, suicidal for like about at least two years before I started to get out of that. I ⁓ didn't over ⁓ it. it took me like a decade to kind of get over it. But that is another story. The thing that happened is like while I was ⁓ in phase of being well, well I was dead basically. Like I was not, I was, my body was alive barely. ⁓ But I was not alive and I could feel like I had to consciously breathe and I could feel every heartbeat. It was insane. But ⁓ a few years of being in that state, know, I just, you know, I got to this point where I was like, I don't want to continue like this. I want to change. I want to be able to be alive, you know. and And then through some events, had a friend and then she found this, I it was like some sort of talk about like spirit animals, you know, like in the shamanic path and stuff. And then we were like interested and we went there. And that triggered the whole thing is we got interested in the whole shamanic thing. ⁓ And she again found a shaman worker that was close to us who was giving lessons and we just went to her for like, you know, find your spirit animal kind of session. So we went to her and she has like a Mongolian shamanic background. We went there, you know, for this, okay, find a spiritual animal and you know, she's like, we were to sit down, we were to travel, you know, to the underworld or the other world And I just found it interesting that after, to that point, I didn't do journeys like that. I ⁓ comfortable with meditations. I was doing meditations a lot. but not this very ⁓ of how you do shamanic journeys. Also another topic. anyway, a big topic. But anyway, I came back and then my teacher, was like, yeah, yeah, I saw you went straight away. You know how do this. And I was like, hmm, OK. Amelie: You Lynn: Interesting. And something happened there, like there was a spark, there was a trigger. Like I've never, I've never had this experience of traveling and seeing things quite like that. Like in meditation, things are just like, they flow past you and you're not supposed to hold onto them either. It's very different. And he is like, you go in with a purpose and you see stuff and things happen. And then I was like, okay, is it. I'm going to, I'm going to go on that, on that road. So I joined her for training as a shaman worker basically ⁓ started my education as that and that was 2011 and ⁓ that the biggest turning point of my entire life I would say, triggered by the loss that I've had. I don't know, I probably would not have gone on without this intense, you know... what they say the shaman death ⁓ went through it some people don't but I definitely went through the shaman death thing and up ⁓ and I trained and that enabled me to suddenly step these ⁓ worlds ⁓ I not know existed that I hoped and felt they existed you know like when you know binding back to like when we were child and we have these imaginary friends and whatnot but kind of getting lost or taken away from that path ⁓ and I had this access to very consciously seek out ⁓ beings spirits deities whatnot or they had a channel opening to to me ⁓ and that was like huge I've always stayed on that path and I've done her education training with her and I've done another here with a bit of more Norse background. like almost everything of what I do is based on Shaman now. I don't call myself a Shaman because I'm not like out there and people come to me and I... not at this point, I don't do that. So I'm still like, you know, I'm a chaos witch. do, ⁓ I pick all my things from everywhere, you know what I do, but the techniques that I use and what I'm doing, like this world walking or spirit calling or what you do, you know, that's my main thing. And, and I mean, that is, that is, that is huge. And Adriana: Boom. Lynn: was huge for me and I'm so much in this materia now that like for me that is the second or it's it's my first nature really so when I talk with people who are not into the magic or the occult at all it almost gets a little bit strange because for me it's so normal that you know I talk to spirits or talk to things and they're just there or I see that and then and for them it's not so I have to like remember like yeah they don't ⁓ in say, fairies, or dragons or whatnot, right? And it's like, but I know they, for me, in my reality, right? We all have different realities, but in my reality, they're very real, you know, and experience them. And so it's like, yeah, this is strange. Amelie: think it's so amazing that you found someone that could give you the guidance as well because this is something I find like I never experienced like yeah of course there's teachers and certain things but not like a guide when you like they like kind of like guide you through and then you can you it's basically they're giving you like the tools for I think that's really amazing Adriana: you Lynn: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that was, very grateful for that. ⁓ can't express it. Yeah, traumatic. ⁓ Adriana: I'm gonna to myself. Luigi: We went into some deep spaces. Lynn: Deep spaces, yeah. Adriana: Yeah. Amelie: Yeah, it's like processing. It's like, you know, like in the when you logged on to the internet, it just went... Lynn: Yeah, it's okay. Amelie: The brain sometimes goes like that. Just reboots itself. Luigi: I think though, because we are talking about personal experiences and how our magical world connects to our personal experiences and vice versa, it is bound to happen again. It is bound to get very in-depth and very emotional and very vulnerable. you all three of you for holding the space for this. Lynn: Thank you. quite personal. ⁓ That's we're here. ⁓ Amelie: think it will be personal and I think even if there's topics that maybe sound less personal I think you just kind of always like slide into more personal things because this is very personal. Lynn: Yeah, I guess we could start wrapping it up a little bit, but if we just go into where, just very short, where we are on the path now, like where we're seeing ourselves on this occult witch road at the moment, and maybe whether we can already feel or have like a sense of... Luigi: the ebb and flow. Adriana: Mm-hmm. Lynn: where we're supposed to go next or whether there's a pull to something particular. Maybe if you just touch on that shortly before we reveal the tarot card. If want to go ahead, Luigi. Adriana: you Luigi: You Yeah, well I'm happy to be surprised because you know I may have an idea out of you right now today and it may change in a few days, weeks and months or years, who knows. But I definitely think Tarot, the very least, that's gonna be at the base of my practice, of my journey as he has been for the past six years, which I know it doesn't sound like very long, but it's of the longest things that I have ever done in life I suppose. So I see Tarot being... incorporated in my lifestyle, whether it's on a professional level or a non-professional level, to some extent, from today ⁓ the end of time. Ideally, would love to, as all three of you may know very well, ⁓ would love to have the opportunity to ⁓ teach the wider world or the wider audience ⁓ what can do for you on a more existential spiritual level, ⁓ which is definitely been taught to us in very unique ways and I guess I just want to bring my own spin to it. But all in good time, it's a journey, it's about understanding what the path takes you, when is the right time to step to the right or to the left or just keep going forward. ⁓ Yeah, and I think I also would like to eventually dedicate more of my awakening hours Lynn: Yeah. Luigi: Awaken hours, ⁓ waking hours, words don't fail me now, ⁓ in creative endeavors and creative projects, whether it's we're doing here right now, ⁓ a conversation that hopefully make a difference and an impact in the world, ⁓ or it's pursuing other artistry-based endeavors such as writing and... Lynn: You Luigi: Maybe one day rediscover the theater world as well and see how magic can be incorporated in the theater and the theater in the magic, who knows. Again, possibilities, but I definitely wish for the life in general, at least my life, I suppose, to be less mundane and a bit more magical and a bit more exciting. Lynn: Mm. Adriana: What about a play of the fool, the journey of the fool? Lynn: Amazing. Luigi: Yeah, that would be a good idea. I wonder if something like that has happened before, like if anybody has done any work on the archetypes. So I'll have to research that. But yeah, that would be a beautiful thing to do, like a very nice creative project. Lynn: Mm-hmm. ⁓ ⁓ How about you, Amelie? Amelie: I don't know. Lynn: is allowed to say, I don't know. ⁓ valid. Adriana: Ha! Luigi: I don't even know what I had for breakfast. Lynn: Yeah Amelie: I just a lot of reflections on like obviously I think we all want to impact people in some of way and help them but I think thinking about ⁓ like I just a lot of time to think a while and thinking about like how I impacted people, I just, I still haven't really figured it out. Like were talking about this devil advocate before as well and I feel that I'm kind of like the person in people's life. ⁓ I'm for people but I'm also ⁓ very and I tend to... I to like talk to people in the only way they understand but I'm very straightforward as well specifically if I'm very close to people during my life I like I lost a lot of close people friends and stuff. Maybe because you know the beginning you kind of friends and then you get more personal ⁓ and I My my kind probably my, well, I guess spiritualities is a short I think it's not really been understood by the people that I had around me. didn't have that connection. learned that some people you're not supposed to have in your life. And even though it's been sad to let go in a sense, but. I could notice as well that they were not good people for me to have around. But I think what I have been doing in their life is kind of like giving them like, that a different, ⁓ a different angle, a different perspective, very like straightforward and quite honest. And I think a lot of people don't like to hear that. And just learned how to, you know, if they don't want to, if they don't want to acknowledge that well and be like, ⁓ thank you, Amelie. I really don't need that. I don't need anyone to come to me and say, thank you for helping me. But I just know when I have a feeling that these things have helped them, either if it was a month after, a year after, it's planting thoughts and these, to kind of help them, not just where they are in life right now. but also where they're going because I'm also really into like conspiracy theories as well. I should put it out there as well. I'm not pushing anything on people but you know like there's always like yeah but what if? ⁓ But for myself Lynn: You You Yeah, whatever. Luigi: Yeah. Amelie: what I wanted, someone that I would like to be. And it's, have not, I don't know how or anything, but, and I have not been talking about it with people either, but I've been like, always been in, I always been like a goth, little goth person, right? And I feel that the friends or people that I had, things really, changed. like specifically during the pandemic and stuff, there was a lot of like differences ⁓ really had to make a choice of like, this you know, this is a whole different story as well, ⁓ but that of choice of like, don't, they're my anymore, like in general, right? And I just feel like, there must be, there must be so many like lost. specifically women, I just feel like there must be so many lost women that also felt this union with their people and everyone was having fun and everyone was on the same page, but now you're kind of not. And it would be like, yeah, I would really love to somehow find these people and have a chat with them and just recalibrate it and Lynn: Yeah, I feel that, yeah. Amelie: keep the values and like keep the cool looking outfits, no. you know, like keep like that core ⁓ ⁓ it into something that is not mainstream basically, I guess. ⁓ I that's what I wanted to say. ⁓ But like, yeah, I don't know. ⁓ I not figured it out yet, but I just feel like it has something do with that. I think ⁓ this is Lynn: Yeah, yeah, Yeah. finding your pack. Luigi: any sub. Amelie: finding, yeah, just finding like the people that kind of like, were in my, like my group. But now I feel like they just, sorry. Luigi: It sounds like a... I was just gonna say, know, it sounds like you're not short of ideas. Lynn: Yeah, I know. Amelie: No, no, don't, I just, I think maybe because ⁓ it can like ⁓ touchy subject sometimes of the things that I've been through, like I said, like I'm very straightforward and I ask and by doing so, ⁓ you know, I've been met with a lot of like, you know, like... like why would like we don't agree at all with you so we're not going to talk to you or they get angry and pissed off ⁓ think ⁓ why I feel like I'm kind of like it's difficult to to I'm just like I said before like sometimes I'm just scared that I'm going to say things in the wrong way and get misunderstood which ⁓ I had like I never had these issues before But I think because of the things, how things evolved, I don't ⁓ personally like I have to be careful, but ⁓ I just, ⁓ want people to misunderstand me, I think. so have to like, not choose your word carefully. And that's why in every single reading, it always comes out like, ⁓ Amelie, have talk to people lovingly and be patient. But when you have so much information in your head, it just comes out and it sounds so dramatic, which it's not. It just becomes dramatic because you just want to let it out. Adriana: Thank Lynn: ⁓ I know it. Adriana: ⁓ Learning to deal with egos fears is a life challenge, because us, it's normal for us to natural and direct and honest and genuine. There is just love and kindness in our hearts, but people are always tendency to see us as they see, according to what they have in themselves. Amelie: Yeah Adriana: So, yeah, I think of the purposes that we should do is release the ego, knowing people will see us as they see themselves and what is according to what is inside of themselves. And yes, love and kindness because ⁓ at end of the day, they think that they are afraid because they think we judging them. As I say, sometimes we are describing the situation, we are making an objective concept of what is the reality that is going to pass. We are not judging the people who hurt them. I learned to be direct, to be straight, but I say, I see the situation in this way, and this situation, you you know, I'm not judging the person because I don't believe in judgment, but I can see as an observer, like a quantum observer, I see the situation, you know. So for your own good because you have free will to decide to follow or to take into consideration the observation of somebody else, who is not joking with you, And I think that when you have that attitude, it has worked with me, but it's very important in healing and interacting with people who have issues daily. I have learned to... Keep my moral compass, keep my structure, keep my center, and be able to speak up my truth. But one way that I you will benefit with this information because what say is not only data, it's ⁓ information. something that will help to form something to the receiver. So when we say something that an information is a responsibility to deliver in the most and kind, but I think the neutral way possible. Yeah. It's my perception. Lynn: What about you Adriana? You said that for where you are right now, I mean you said that you work as a healer and is there pull that you feel towards a particular direction or somewhere where it's leading you from? ⁓ Adriana: Yeah. Me, me. more more detached from the world around me. And it's more... I a very eclectic interest, know, so I can't be so seduced by a physicist talking a quantum mechanic or origin of the universe, or the gnostic talking about monads. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Adriana: or I'm following, ⁓ particularly as I can follow in different languages. So it's beautiful because you can see the evolution of the thinking according to the cultures as well. And you know, the interaction in your mind when you are talking in different languages. So I quite academic and quite intellectual, but extremely spiritual if I may say, because for me there is not a difference. everything is the spirit, your intellect, your academia, your education is part of your spirituality. So I see everything as a spiritual biology, and the science and so on. So I follow different people. One of them is a fantastic guy from Argentina, name Javier Wolcoff Lynn: Mm. Mm. Adriana: I followed him for several years, was a kaballist Now he had a period of doubt and now he's developing a new version of reality. And I found it fascinating because Life is a game. are, this reality, this dimension where we are is a game. We come from, not everyone, but at least the four of us, come from, from a semi-strangular reality, you know, where we come here to learn and experience what is the thing that we need to learn? What is the thing that we need to achieve to make conscious consciousness? Because I think the consciousness of what they call the, a lot of the Gnostics as well, the concept of monad and the eons and the creation of the Sophia and the creation of the reality. And equally it's the same principle of going back to spiritual guide that you all knew, my secret guide. Equally, it's inviting me, you know, to go to this, to go to her, to go to that divine felony that is source of everything. So I'm ⁓ another book, the book of, leave that. It's a beautiful book about the story of like the Holy Spirit that was in Noah's ark, you know. who was still saving people, the meaning of spirituality, the meaning of love. you see, I have different subjects. I am... like in a pool of a lot of concepts and a lot of things, but my aim is to find these concepts of origin and source like in the full of geometry become to the dot. So reducing as much of things that for me doesn't have any more sense and for me It can be a contradiction. I'm reducing less and less, more my my interactions. I don't care what people think of me or whatever. They ⁓ are free. That's the freedom, you know, whatever think of me. I bless you. You have the freedom to believe whatever you want. Yeah. But. In the same situation, I would like in a quest to become a dot. So that is what I'm now. Lynn: The quest to become a dot. Well, I mean, like, I don't where my path leads me. Like, again, like, I just open what comes and there are a lot of projects and workshops that, you know, that I'm taking part of on this journey. I can say things of what I like. Amelie: you like to become a dot Lynn or do you have a different path? Adriana: Thank Lynn: Consciously I would like but that's not necessarily where the path always leads you right so I mean I I I Do like working. I love working with the Tarot and I mean I'm offering for people and people here seem a little scared of it I feel but they're like once they open up they're like yeah, can you read for me? But I'm still doing it for free for everybody for my friends. Don't tell anybody do it for money as well. Not free anymore. You can book a sessions Amelie: It's not free anymore. Lynn: with all of us. I it's basically also like where my guides lead me or like where my main guide leads me and the lessons that lie in that. And I just want to expand, contract, ⁓ to it that's coming. Alrighty. Adriana: Thank Amelie: Also mentioning the tarot card, think it's such a good tool. Because I was always really interested in psychology. there was a time when I really wanted to become like, I thought that a great job for me would be like, become like a child psychologist for like kids that have been through like really bad things. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Thank Hmm. Amelie: and people think that's such a strange thing to say, but I just felt like that would be actually something that I would be really, really good at. But then I was like, there's no way I'll be able to like study psychology. It's just not like, no way. But I feel like, in a sense, like the tarot kind of brings that into like, it's not. Lynn: All Hmm. Yeah. Adriana: But but Lynn: Yeah, same. Amelie: Obviously it's supposed to be for fun, but at the same time it kind of brings out these really that are very important, things that will leave you thinking about, it triggers sides of you that you don't expect it and it really does help you. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. Let's see, we can start wrapping it up with the card that I got at the start of the session. We all want know what it is. We can talk. Yes? Say yes, please. I've shown a yes, like everybody else. Hmm. No, it wasn't. But it's kind of what I saying. I read what I was saying with the technical difficulties. That's very aid of sorts. That was not it. But yeah. Amelie: Yeah. Adriana: Yes. Amelie: I really want to know what it is. Luigi: I have an idea though, I think it's... we guess? ⁓ ⁓ think it's the Eight of Swords. ⁓ think it's the Eight of Swords. ⁓ Adriana: Okay. Luigi: Okay, Okay. Lynn: Yeah, any other guesses? It's not really point of guessing. Luigi: Do you think it showed up in our conversations during this session? Lynn: ⁓ Let's review. Okay, so is what I got. The 10 of Wands. Yes, it's the 10 of Wands from the Thoth deck that using here. So we're having the two big wands on ⁓ top the eight wands and it's called Oppression. ⁓ Adriana: The tool I- Luigi: Uhhhh! Amelie: Ten! Ten of wands Lynn: So what do we think about that card? We usually don't like, or many people don't like the tens or the ten of ones especially. I think we just... Amelie: It really reminds me of all these struggles that we had when we were younger when people did not believe ⁓ what we were. Yeah, ⁓ it's that kind of burden you have to carry of knowing that you are right but nobody believes you or you get dismissed. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Luigi: Ditto. Lynn: Yeah Adriana: heavy load. Lynn: Yeah, it could also be the other side of that. The other side where we're trying to express our truth of being what you asking the nun, right? And they're being like, no, like them just trying to stifle your inner fire and passion and being like, ⁓ Yeah. So that could also be kind of also that side of the whole thing. Yeah. ⁓ again, know, mm. Amelie: Yeah. Adriana: But at the same time, for me, it's as well because when you see, in the thoth cards but in the smith one, the traditional one, you see the person who is carrying them, the ones, is a very strong man. He's a very strong man and for a very long path towards the castle of all the villages. So. Luigi: Yeah. Lynn: Mm. Yes. Adriana: I think is what we were talking about and it's very relevant is the challenges that we had and the burden that we had. Instead of become a burden, they became our strength. So we have to see as well. Lynn: And that's really kind of trying to it out that way. It's like if you're carrying, like you say in the Rider-Waite-Smith version where you have like this person carrying the 10 wands and like you said, yes, he's very strong, but also the way is very long. And if you keep carrying so much weight, your back is going to break at some point. It's too much. Right. So either that can you take it just one by one, you know, or can you get help can you transform it in some way? we don't want our backs to be broken, we want to be functioning. And with my situation that I had, it could have broken my back. I could have, know, I might not exist today if that had happened. But I found a way to get out of the situation, or the way found me. It's probably mutual, it was probably a mutual thing. ⁓ that me to transform things. And bit by bit I... Adriana: Bye bye. Lynn: I got out of this depression and I taught myself how to be alive again and I taught and I found a way to life and now I'm happy. ⁓ ⁓ all this beauty and happiness again. It took a while, but I'm there now. And this is like this kind of transformation. But I felt that very much. And I feel also like the 10 of Wands can be like, is for me often like also this kind of burnout card. Adriana: for you. Lynn: because it's kind of this feeling that you have taken on too much. Yeah. And it's all, you know, the fire, right? It's very, it's burnt out. It's a very fitting word. I feel like you have taken on too much and you're just like struggling to actually keep yourself upright, but you just like going on, going on because what other choice do you have? Are you going to collapse? Are you going to continue to go? Yeah. And it's kind of, yeah. Amelie: determination to get there. Adriana: Yes, as well, it's also a message of courage and determination because we don't know, maybe in the village, he's going to bring that in the village and then they're going to buy the wands and then to make a fire and help the village and, you know, whatever he's carrying, has a value as well. So we have to determine what is useful for us. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Adriana: where it's going to take us, what is the reward we're going to get when we achieve it. So I think the 10 of wands has been related to the podcasts of today because it has been everyone has joined the wands. ⁓ have been carrying together here for a couple of hours. We have been together carrying each other's wands. Lynn: Mm. Yeah, ⁓ yeah. Luigi: Mm-hmm. Adriana: And let's do a beautiful fire when we arrive and you know transformation is the goal here. Lynn: Mmm. Yeah, awesome. Amelie: Luigi, you had some insights as well, I think. Luigi: It actually matched your insight, you when you mentioned when we opened up about our own personal struggles in our childhood, teenagehood, youthfulness, youth. But it also matched Adriana. I think there's always been in the 10 of Wands a message of release, I suppose. And I think it's probably only personal to the four of us here. Maybe it will be personal to people that may be listening at some point in the future, but... We've been talking about getting out there, doing something of our own for so long, and now we are releasing this desire, this project, this idea, which is exactly what Adriana shared just a few moments ago. Lynn: releasing and starting again beautiful yeah well thanks guys that's I think that's wrap for tonight's episode again you can find our handles below if you want to contact us and we'll you ⁓ next week to voices of the Occultinarium. Bye! See you! Adriana: Yeah. Amelie: Yeah. Adriana: He says, love to everyone. Be happy. Amelie: See you next week. Luigi: Stay blessed. Amelie: Bye.