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Could Sonny Gray's Injury Wreck The Cardinals Season? · Kenny Wallace Media

• 0:00
  What's up everybody? This is low hanging fruit.
• 0:02
  I'm Charlie Marlowe. That is Brendan Schaefer, Fresh
• 0:06
  offspring training back in the Saint Louis area.
• 0:09
  Brendan, how you doing buddy? Oh, I'm just fantastic.
• 0:13
  I'm better than sunny Gray's hamstring.
• 0:15
  What? Oh, too soon?
• 0:16
  Too soon? Well, no, I mean, not too soon.
• 0:19
  Because let's start the show with that.
• 0:20
  I was. I was going to begin with some
• 0:22
  pleasantries about your cripple. We'll get to that look.
• 0:25
  Get to that. No, let's get, let's get right
• 0:27
  to it. We'll talk.
• 0:28
  We'll talk. You know, your best meal and all
• 0:30
  that at the end. But Sonny Gray, I mean, it's
• 0:33
  obviously the biggest story of camp.
• 0:35
  It's what everybody's talking about.
• 0:37
  So I'll just start with you. Give me your take, buddy.
• 0:41
  My take is that it's not going to be the end of the world if
• 0:44
  Sonny Gray doesn't start on March 28th in Los Angeles
• 0:48
  against the Dodgers like he was supposed to, It's going to feel
• 0:51
  like the end of the world. But it doesn't have to be that
• 0:54
  as long as he's starting by like mid-april, I think the Cardinals
• 0:58
  are going to be OK. But this thing turning into
• 1:01
  something that's prolonged or something that's recurring, like
• 1:05
  it was for Sonny Gray back in 2022 when he was with the Twins,
• 1:08
  that would be the concern at this point.
• 1:11
  So it makes sense that the Cardinals want to take it slow.
• 1:14
  They want to get him back healthy and strong when he comes
• 1:17
  back. But there is that lingering
• 1:19
  thought in the back of your mind, Charlie, that in 2022 when
• 1:22
  he had a right hamstring issue in April, it did crop up again
• 1:26
  in September. So is this something that Sonny
• 1:28
  Gray is going to have to manage not only throughout this season
• 1:32
  but throughout the three-year contract with the Cardinals?
• 1:34
  Like, those are all the thoughts kind of running through my mind
• 1:36
  as we get into this. Yeah, I think when I saw the
• 1:40
  news we're thinking, OK we'll we'll see, we'll see what it is.
• 1:45
  And I think it's fair to say it's it's kind of in the middle.
• 1:47
  It is literally a mild hamstring strain.
• 1:51
  So it's not severe it it could have been better and I think the
• 1:55
  way that that Sonny Gray he discussed it in his his media
• 2:00
  scrum that next day was, look, it's about the best news you
• 2:03
  could get for something. Now clearly it'd be great if
• 2:07
  there was nothing, but he's like if you got a little something
• 2:10
  this is about the best news that you could get.
• 2:12
  But I I think when you, when you looked at Twitter or if you're
• 2:16
  at the game cover or whatever, but I mean when you saw the
• 2:18
  news, you started to really realize how important Sonny Gray
• 2:23
  is to this rotation, obviously, but also to this team.
• 2:27
  And you're just thinking, man, what if they didn't have Sonny
• 2:30
  Gray for a large chunk of of games in in 2024?
• 2:35
  To me, it's really hard to think of the Saint Louis Cardinals as
• 2:39
  a playoff team if Sonny Gray doesn't make and I'm, let's just
• 2:43
  say 25 starts, what, whatever, whatever that number is, I think
• 2:46
  it's really hard. This is an obvious statement.
• 2:48
  But when you think, man, if you remove Sonny Gray from this
• 2:52
  rotation, all of a sudden, let's just say Miles Michaels is your
• 2:55
  opening day starter, and then it's somebody like a a Lynn or
• 2:59
  Gibson or Matt. And now, Now you're depending on
• 3:02
  Zach Thompson from day one. You're like, oh man, that that
• 3:07
  doesn't feel too great. No, not to have that be the case
• 3:10
  at the beginning of the season. And that's why, like, it's going
• 3:13
  to feel icky if that's your rotation to begin in Los Angeles
• 3:17
  and San Diego. But if Sonny Gray can pitch back
• 3:21
  on that homestand in Saint Louis, it it can be a temporary
• 3:24
  feeling. And that's got to be the hope, I
• 3:26
  think, for the Cardinals at this point.
• 3:28
  But you're right. Like when we talked last week
• 3:30
  and we kind of broke it down, what do you think the rotations
• 3:32
  going to rank in Major League Baseball?
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  You know, is it in that 10 to 15 range or is that a little bit
• 3:38
  too optimistic? Maybe it's more, you know, 16 to
• 3:41
  20th in baseball in terms of the starting five.
• 3:44
  Take away Sonny Gray, though, How does it?
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  There's no real upside in that group.
• 3:49
  There's a lot of solid guys, guys you hope can be sturdy, but
• 3:53
  who's the guy kind of anchoring that unit at that point?
• 3:56
  It's really hard to to say with confidence.
• 3:59
  Like Miles Michaels has done it in various seasons, but he's
• 4:02
  coming off of a year in which he didn't pitch that well.
• 4:05
  He was susceptible to the defense behind him and just, you
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  know, didn't have a great year despite the fact that he went
• 4:11
  200 innings. So you're talking at that point,
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  I think maybe 21st to 25th in baseball in terms of the
• 4:18
  rotation. Unless somebody like Zach
• 4:20
  Thompson steps up and is one of your better starters, which he,
• 4:24
  he could do that, Charlie. But it's just one of those
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  things that we haven't seen from him yet.
• 4:28
  Yeah, and I don't even remember what I what I put the Cardinals
• 4:32
  rotation at last week, but I'm guessing it was somewhere 11 to
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  15 or 16 to 20. We were on that line in the
• 4:39
  middle, yeah. Yeah.
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  So let's just say it's right in the middle.
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  We don't have to be perfect. But but I agree with you if if
• 4:44
  you're saying it's it's right in the middle with an upside to to
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  creep towards let's say the top third of baseball with Sonny
• 4:53
  Gray. Once you remove Sonny Gray.
• 4:55
  I agree. I I think it's hard to put them
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  anywhere but in the. But in the 20s right there now
• 5:00
  here's another here's another aspect of this and and look
• 5:04
  maybe he only misses. You know, in that scrum he said
• 5:07
  if I miss one cycle, if I miss two turns of rotation, let's
• 5:11
  just say let's be conservative. Let's say it's three.
• 5:14
  OK let's say he misses three turns.
• 5:16
  So he's back about midway through April.
• 5:20
  I I do think, you know, we're not thinking of hey this is
• 5:23
  Armageddon but we've all looked at this schedule.
• 5:26
  It's really tough early. I I do think the 2024 Cardinals
• 5:30
  are a team that would really benefit from a fast start.
• 5:33
  Yeah, what if that first 15 games, whatever it is, before
• 5:36
  you finally get a little bit of a break, You'd think against the
• 5:38
  Oakland A's if you don't have Sonny Grave for your first three
• 5:42
  turns through the rotation. I mean, what if you start the
• 5:44
  Year 5 and 10? I'm not saying it's the end of
• 5:46
  the world, but that's not too great for a team that that needs
• 5:50
  some positivity early, I think. If Sonny Gray is not starting in
• 5:53
  that Dodgers series and it really doesn't seem like he's
• 5:55
  going to, I'll give my take on like, specifically when I think
• 5:58
  he can get back in a minute. But if he's not in that first
• 6:01
  series, it's a four gamer in Los Angeles, which could be easy to
• 6:04
  forget. Right off the bat.
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  You're playing arguably the best team on paper in baseball for
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  four games. I mean, it would have been nice
• 6:12
  with Sonny Gray to to squeak out a two and two in that 4 gamer.
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  At this point, if you go two and two against the Dodgers without
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  Sonny Gray, I feel like you hang the banner.
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  Like that's going to feel that's going to be a really good start.
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  But in the standings, it's just going to be so, so and then I
• 6:27
  don't know what to make of the Padres.
• 6:28
  That series is going to be kind of fun to get into and talk
• 6:30
  about when we get there, just because they're they're they
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  were also a team last year with a lot of expectations fell
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  short. Now Mike Schulte is their
• 6:37
  manager. So yeah, like it's it's going to
• 6:40
  put intense pressure on each and every game and each and every
• 6:43
  series that was going to be there anyway.
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  But now we're going to be looking at it even more so
• 6:47
  through that microscope of like, hey, if you if you have that
• 6:51
  sort of start that happened to you last April, we know what
• 6:54
  that led to. That became the narrative of the
• 6:56
  bad start compounded. It snowballed on them.
• 6:59
  If you start that way again, what's to keep, you know, a
• 7:02
  similar story from unfolding that's going to be sort of the
• 7:05
  thought process. And for the players, man,
• 7:07
  they're I think there's a a true, tangible benefit to just
• 7:10
  having that fresh slate right now after they spent five months
• 7:14
  of last season chasing themselves and it didn't end up
• 7:16
  working out. Now you get the fresh sleep, but
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  what happens if that's gone within the first week or two
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  like that? How does that affect the psyche
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  of this team? Is it like a here we go again or
• 7:25
  is it? No, we're confident in the group
• 7:27
  that we have. It's going to be a challenge.
• 7:29
  And you know, we both love the hashtag sign, Trevor Bowers.
• 7:33
  And you knew, look, that was already coming.
• 7:35
  That was coming before the injury, Yes.
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  And so I do find it funny. I know you have a nice rant
• 7:40
  against fans that we'll get to because.
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  You not now we're related, by the way.
• 7:44
  You hate the fans, Apparently. Just kidding.
• 7:46
  I'm just kidding. We'll get to it though.
• 7:48
  No, but of course there's a natural reaction when you have
• 7:51
  an injury. Stein.
• 7:53
  Blake Snell. Stein.
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  Jordan Montgomery Stein. Trevor Bauer.
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  First of all, you know the Cardinals aren't going to do
• 8:00
  that. Especially when this looks early
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  on like it's not not a big deal. I'll tell you what, this is
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  interesting to me. I wondered if there would have
• 8:08
  been a real serious injury. Would that?
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  Would that like if you knew one of these starters was out for
• 8:16
  the year and you have a lot of guys with one year deals, all of
• 8:20
  a sudden, would a Snell Montgomery trickle into the mix?
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  I don't know. This is a hypothetical, but you
• 8:26
  knew. I I love you fans.
• 8:28
  Believe me, I love the fans. I love the commenters.
• 8:30
  I love the hashtag sign Trevor Bauer.
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  They got to sign Snell. They got to sign Montgomery.
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  Come on. Come on, folks.
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  You know the Cardinals. You knew they weren't doing
• 8:38
  that. Come on.
• 8:39
  Yeah, especially not from what they they term as a mild
• 8:43
  hamstring. And like part of the issue with
• 8:45
  the timing of this injury for sunny Gray in and I put you, you
• 8:49
  retweeted my tweet where I did a little bit of research.
• 8:51
  You know, I did some work on this back in 2022, yeah, but
• 8:55
  back in 2022 he had basically a very similar low grade hamstring
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  is what the twins called it in the start.
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  That happened on April 16th. 3 weeks to the day later he was
• 9:05
  back in the big leagues making a start on May 7th and so you go,
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  OK, three weeks, that perfect. That's not that long.
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  He can maybe start opening day. The problem was he was already
• 9:15
  built up from spring training that year.
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  This year he was only throwing like 2, maybe 3 innings at Max
• 9:20
  in terms of his progression. So he misses the three weeks and
• 9:24
  then probably needs a couple of turns cycles through his own
• 9:27
  fake rotation to get up to like A5 inning pitch count and then
• 9:31
  he can join the Cardinals. So that's why I think that like
• 9:34
  April 10th to 15th range is feels like a a pretty decent bet
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  in terms of what could happen if it mirrors what happened to
• 9:41
  Sonny Gray in in previous seasons.
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  I that was a story I wanted to tell.
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  I forget what the point you were making.
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  Oh, it was the Jordan Montgomery stuff and signed a new guy.
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  Yeah, if this was a longer injury, I think specifically if
• 9:53
  Gray had like a three month injury in the news about like
• 9:57
  Blake Snell is willing to take like a Bellinger deal where it's
• 10:01
  short term but high money, maybe the Cardinals would have said,
• 10:04
  look, this is kind of our our fork in the road.
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  Do we decide to go for it and pretend that like Sonny Gray is
• 10:10
  the guy we trade for at the deadline if he's coming back in
• 10:13
  July and just don't make a trade?
• 10:15
  But we signed the other guy. Now maybe they could have done
• 10:17
  that, but they haven't talked with Blake Snell, Right.
• 10:20
  Like Derrick Gould reported, Cardinals haven't really reached
• 10:22
  out to his camp. We're Jordan Montgomery's camp
• 10:24
  in weeks to where there's just no momentum.
• 10:27
  That doesn't seem to be a desire to have a deal there.
• 10:29
  But I did see a tweet, and I hate to bring this up because I
• 10:32
  didn't hear the original thing that was said by Buster only.
• 10:35
  But I saw a tweet that said that only was implying on a show
• 10:38
  recently that Montgomery's preference might be to go to a
• 10:41
  smaller market and then says like Texas or Saint Louis.
• 10:44
  I'm thinking Texas is like, that's like Dallas.
• 10:47
  It's not really a small market, but it feels like like the way I
• 10:50
  read this is that Montgomery would like to go back to the
• 10:52
  Rangers. The Rangers maybe don't have it
• 10:54
  in the budget to pay what he's worth and he's kind of sitting
• 10:58
  around. Boston might be wanting him, but
• 10:59
  does Jordan Montgomery go? I don't want to go to Boston,
• 11:02
  like maybe Saint Louis is going to throw me a bone, but I didn't
• 11:05
  think Montgomery would want to come back to Saint Louis either.
• 11:08
  So I just, I was kind of intrigued by that.
• 11:09
  But you're right, it was never in doubt that Cardinals fans
• 11:12
  would see any injury to anybody and go got to sign somebody,
• 11:16
  even if it's like a three-week injury that's not going to last
• 11:18
  beyond April. And in that scrum and by the
• 11:22
  way, good research you did about him coming back and and Sonny
• 11:25
  Grey talked about that. But he said at the end the team
• 11:29
  sucked and they were what, 20 games out.
• 11:31
  So it sounded like, in theory, he could have, he could have
• 11:34
  pitched again one of those years that he had that injury.
• 11:39
  Yeah, so the deal was it was April 16th to May 7th and he was
• 11:42
  back, good to go up until September 2nd.
• 11:45
  And then he had another hamstring thing.
• 11:48
  Same same leg, right leg. And didn't miss a start.
• 11:52
  Pitched again like September 8th, pitched again, pitched
• 11:54
  again September 19th. Had it happen again.
• 11:57
  And that was the one he was probably.
• 11:59
  I didn't. I wasn't there for the scrum.
• 12:00
  I was driving back to Missouri. But I think that September 19th
• 12:04
  start is what he would have been talking about, where he probably
• 12:07
  could have started on the 26th or whatever.
• 12:09
  But at that point, it was like they're not in the playoff
• 12:11
  contention. Why push it?
• 12:13
  Just start getting ready for next year?
• 12:14
  I think that's probably what it was.
• 12:15
  But that does kind of go to show he had it in April and then that
• 12:18
  same season had it in September. So it would benefit the
• 12:22
  Cardinals to make sure they can get out in front of this and
• 12:24
  make sure he's 100% ready to go before they push him back.
• 12:27
  I think he will be. I think he will be by the end of
• 12:29
  March. But the arm might lag behind
• 12:31
  because he's not currently built up as a pitcher.
• 12:33
  That's going to be what causes him to miss the first, you know,
• 12:37
  week or two of the season. You're a gambler.
• 12:40
  I'm a gambler so if you had to set the over under, OK, we
• 12:46
  already know he has the right hamstring strain right now, if
• 12:50
  you're hanging a line at a sports book on on will Sonny
• 12:55
  Gray's right hamstring bark again in 2024.
• 13:01
  I was thinking is the line 0.5 or is it is it 1.5?
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  Are we thinking there's a chance actually that that he's done
• 13:09
  after this and he has a full, let's say he missed three starts
• 13:13
  and he has a full healthy 30 starts.
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  Or are we saying I think you got to put it up at 1 1/2 and we'd
• 13:20
  be luckier if he only has it creep up again once and not?
• 13:25
  Twice, you might think. I would say.
• 13:29
  Does it creep up again? Once I'd set the line at 0.5
• 13:33
  because again in September of 22 when it crept up again, he could
• 13:37
  have just hit the IL and that would have been the one.
• 13:40
  But he didn't even miss a start with the tightness and then it
• 13:43
  kind of had. So I would set it at 0.0.5.
• 13:46
  But I would also say, you know, minus money on the over, it's
• 13:50
  probably going to, it's probably going to happen, you know -150
• 13:53
  odds on over something like that just because there's a bit of a
• 13:57
  history with this. But he like the good news is he
• 13:59
  knows how it feels, right. He felt the pole and said why
• 14:03
  pitch through this? It's spring training.
• 14:04
  I need to get off the field. He did.
• 14:06
  You know, he's he's got enough experience with this particular
• 14:08
  injury that I think he knows when not to push it.
• 14:11
  So that might give you a little bit of solace.
• 14:13
  But it also might mean that on June 16th he pitches an inning
• 14:18
  and goes. I shouldn't pitch again because
• 14:20
  if I if I throw four more pitches, I might miss a month
• 14:23
  rather than miss a start. So like, that's where it's going
• 14:26
  to have to be. Something that I think is
• 14:27
  managed throughout the year and throughout the contract.
• 14:29
  Like this is just something that he know is going to know.
• 14:32
  But he's a guy that knows his body super well.
• 14:34
  He does more meticulous arm care after every appearance than
• 14:37
  anybody I've ever seen. I mean, he's walking around with
• 14:40
  like a like a arm care machine attached to.
• 14:42
  It looks like he's in a hospital, but it's like it's
• 14:44
  just stuff that like he does that he's always done to make
• 14:48
  sure his arm is in in the right shape.
• 14:49
  So knowing that that's how he operates, it's, I'm not super
• 14:54
  duper worried about it long term, but it is something that
• 14:56
  you do have to think about. Do you think it's fair?
• 14:59
  I mean it's certainly a fair discussion.
• 15:02
  So if I throw it out to you and and look we're we're still in
• 15:05
  the offseason technically. I mean, we have spring training
• 15:07
  games, but we're all kind of repackaging the same thoughts
• 15:10
  since the Cardinals sucked last year, which was midway through
• 15:13
  the year. And I wasn't obviously the only
• 15:16
  one to say this, but I think most people thought the
• 15:18
  Cardinals needed two front end guys.
• 15:21
  They obviously got one with Sonny Gray.
• 15:24
  Now for the eight thousandth time.
• 15:26
  I'm not going to argue with myself once.
• 15:30
  Once they got Lynn and Gibson, I said OK, you got 3 pitchers.
• 15:35
  It could in theory work. I'm not going to pretend like I
• 15:38
  I have all the answers. However, I did say you needed
• 15:42
  Gray and another front end guy. They didn't get that other front
• 15:47
  end guy and now Gray is hurt. Is it is it safe to say even
• 15:52
  right now as we stand here early in March that look may maybe
• 15:57
  they did not do enough and and and let's let's also let's say
• 16:01
  it now because again when you remove Gray you start to go.
• 16:07
  But if you'd have had I, I understand a trade for Dylan
• 16:10
  Cease or Logan Gilbert. I understand how difficult that
• 16:13
  would have been. I'm not.
• 16:14
  I'm not trying to say that's easy, but if you had another guy
• 16:18
  like that, then if that guy or Grey gets hurt, you feel a whole
• 16:23
  hell of a lot better. I think you're 100% right.
• 16:26
  I want to play devil's advocate a little bit on the notion of
• 16:29
  that trade, which you fully acknowledge would have been
• 16:31
  difficult to make. I'm not even going to go as far
• 16:34
  as to say impossible, but let's walk through what that would
• 16:36
  have looked like. Because if we'll criticize, hey,
• 16:38
  the Cardinals really should have found another front end guy A1B
• 16:42
  to the 1A of Sunny. How would they have gone about
• 16:45
  doing that? Yes, you could always spend the
• 16:46
  money, but they spent 25,000,000 on the two starters they got and
• 16:50
  Gray's making whatever he's making for the next three years
• 16:53
  an average of like 20 some odd million.
• 16:55
  So like to to think they would have been added another like
• 17:00
  let's say instead of signing Gibson, they signed a a Blake
• 17:03
  Snell and now they've got two guys in the rotation that
• 17:06
  they're paying like $30 million a year for the next few years.
• 17:09
  It because of their inability to develop pitching.
• 17:12
  That's why they're in this spot every year.
• 17:14
  They're having to backfill the rotation with money and just
• 17:17
  patch it up and hope that eventually one of these guys
• 17:19
  comes through. But let's say they would have
• 17:20
  made a trade, they they go get Dylan sees they're trading
• 17:23
  either Gorman or Donovan and Tink hence and Graceffo.
• 17:27
  So now you're trading the the prospects that could end up
• 17:29
  being that answer in terms of development, we don't know, but
• 17:32
  hopefully one of them does pan out.
• 17:33
  We find out this year that they do.
• 17:35
  But the the part that I think is interesting is like whichever
• 17:38
  one is, is you want to say a Borman Donovan.
• 17:41
  The other one can play second base but now you're kind of a
• 17:43
  little bit iffy on who's going to be the DH.
• 17:45
  And now with Tommy Edmund is is potentially going to miss the
• 17:48
  start of the year as well. You're down another position
• 17:50
  player in the season hasn't even started yet.
• 17:52
  So like I can understand why the Cardinals would have been
• 17:55
  hesitant on paper. It's like, oh you got two second
• 17:57
  baseman Gorman Donovan, great. You can move one of them for an
• 18:00
  ace. I would understand that.
• 18:02
  The season then happens and you go, oh, we don't have the depth
• 18:05
  we thought we did because guys get hurt in our lineup.
• 18:07
  Kind of isn't that top five, top 10 unit that it has to be to
• 18:11
  contend with the way that we're built.
• 18:12
  So I I could see both sides of that, and then I do lean toward
• 18:16
  the side of There wasn't a trade made for Dylan C So whatever the
• 18:19
  ask was, it may not have really been possible.
• 18:22
  But I can definitely understand that.
• 18:23
  You look at where the Cardinals are now and their rotation say
• 18:25
  they don't have enough. Do you?
• 18:26
  You want to know who I think the most important starter is on
• 18:29
  this team? Like, obviously Sonny Gray.
• 18:31
  They need him back healthy. Of the other ones, who would you
• 18:33
  peg that they're most reliant upon to have a good season of
• 18:36
  the other four? Just off top of my head, you
• 18:39
  asked me that question, I would say Mats.
• 18:42
  Mats would be a lot of people's answer because he has good
• 18:46
  stuff, but the last two years has not been able to stay in the
• 18:49
  rotation and make thirty starts. Fair answer.
• 18:51
  I think it's unequivocally Lance Lynn because there's a world in
• 18:55
  which the Cardinals did get 2 front end guys and it's if Lance
• 18:58
  Lynn bounces back to his pre 2023 numbers.
• 19:02
  If you look at him from 2019 to 2020, two 3 1/2 ERA, 200
• 19:07
  innings, 240 some odd strikeouts in in 2019-2020 he was one of
• 19:11
  the best pitchers in baseball when they had the COVID season
• 19:14
  shortened season. He led the league in starts and
• 19:17
  innings and had a three 3 ERA. The next year was an All Star
• 19:20
  269 ERA and then IN2022A399ER. AI understand that now he's a
• 19:26
  couple years older than that and that last year was a total bust.
• 19:29
  But if he can channel some of that and get back to being a
• 19:33
  3938 ERA kind of guy, like he was better than for like 5 years
• 19:38
  in a row before last year, Like I'm not saying that's likely.
• 19:41
  He might just have lost a tick or two of velocity.
• 19:43
  He's a fastball based guy and so he's just not going to have the
• 19:46
  stuff on a week to week basis to do that again.
• 19:49
  But if he could, that's the world in which the Cardinals I
• 19:51
  think could be OK with a little bit of a rebound from Michaelis
• 19:55
  and Gibson being what he's been. Even if Matt's only throws 20
• 19:58
  some odd starts because he has an injury mixed in there.
• 20:01
  I think Lance Lind's the key now.
• 20:02
  Am I predicting Lance Lind to do all that?
• 20:04
  Not really. I think it's going to be a
• 20:06
  stretch, but that's. That's the one that if if he
• 20:09
  ends up going back to pre 2023 numbers, the rotation could be
• 20:13
  OK. But that's you're pinning that
• 20:14
  on a guy who's aging and you know what, what's he going to
• 20:17
  give you this year? We don't really know.
• 20:20
  Yeah, and I answered. I I like your answer as well.
• 20:22
  I answered math because I'm already adding this to the fact
• 20:26
  that that we're saying Sonny Gray is going to miss a small
• 20:30
  chunk of starts. Let's just say 3.
• 20:32
  Over. Under.
• 20:33
  Like over under 23 1/2? How many starts does Gray make?
• 20:36
  For the season 23 1/2. 'Cause this would leave room for
• 20:41
  another little hammy thing too. You could still take the over
• 20:44
  potentially, but what do you think 23, 1/2?
• 20:46
  I'd I'd probably, I'd probably take the over.
• 20:48
  I think that's a good line though.
• 20:50
  Narrowly, I agree with you, yeah.
• 20:51
  Yeah, so, but I answered Matt's more because look at this, even
• 20:57
  if Lance Lynn, let's say, is bad, and when I say bad, what if
• 21:00
  his ERA is in the fives, right? But still, I think he's going to
• 21:04
  throw the 180 innings and strike some guys out.
• 21:09
  I just think that when this team said they didn't just say it
• 21:13
  through their actions, they said innings are are essentially the
• 21:16
  most important thing to our team.
• 21:18
  It's innings. The fact that Sonny Grey's
• 21:20
  already hurt. Matz is the one other guy that
• 21:24
  you kind of worry about those innings.
• 21:26
  So that's where here's another guy.
• 21:28
  Look, I'm not betting on this, but Matz is also that type of
• 21:30
  guy. He's kind of like the Tyler
• 21:32
  O'Neill of pitchers, where once every four or five years he is
• 21:37
  going to have a season where he stays healthy and he's actually
• 21:40
  really good. And and by the way, I guarantee
• 21:42
  you that happens again at some point in his career.
• 21:44
  Steven Matz is going to throw 30 starts and going to be damn
• 21:47
  good. I just can't tell you what year
• 21:49
  it's going to be. It's the exact year he had when
• 21:51
  the Cardinals signed him, right? Like he had 29 starts in a
• 21:55
  36ERA38 ERA for Toronto. His one year in Toronto and the
• 22:00
  Cardinals were like 4 years, 40 million.
• 22:03
  Let's go and like that that that's the last time he did it.
• 22:05
  He's capable of it, but I mean it's like shooting fish at a
• 22:09
  barrel. You don't know when it's gonna
• 22:10
  come. I I like that analogy though.
• 22:12
  The Tyler O'Neill of pitching. By the way, the other day Tyler
• 22:15
  O'Neill hit an absolute bomb out of the the mini Fenway down at
• 22:20
  down in Florida. I mean left the entire building
• 22:23
  and stole a base in that game as well.
• 22:25
  So we'll see what Tyler O'Neill comes up with for the for the
• 22:27
  Red Sox this year. Don't you want him to have a
• 22:30
  good year first of all? I like him as a person, by the
• 22:32
  way, I. I don't really root.
• 22:35
  Yeah, I don't really root against anyone, but I I really
• 22:38
  do like Tyler O'Neill as a person.
• 22:40
  I I feel bad for him, 'cause he's always hurt.
• 22:42
  I don't think that's necessarily well, could he train a little
• 22:46
  differently? Some guys also just get injured
• 22:49
  a lot. And then look, we don't need to
• 22:51
  get back into this. I don't think this situation was
• 22:54
  handled perfectly by by either party and and we've all done
• 22:58
  5000 podcasts on this. But you know, hey we also we
• 23:03
  root for storylines and if Tyler O'Neill has a great year for
• 23:07
  Boston I I understand the relationship got to a point
• 23:10
  where it seemed like they just had to move on.
• 23:11
  But that's also look, that's both the Cardinals and Tyler
• 23:15
  O'Neill's fault and look, change of sceneries also sometimes you
• 23:18
  got to do it. But you know if Tyler O'Neill
• 23:22
  starts off the season first couple months going ham, we're
• 23:26
  all going to regurgitate this. Oh, Adolis Garcia, Randy
• 23:29
  Rosarena, even Lane Thomas a little bit.
• 23:32
  And now Tyler O'Neill. I think the conversation there
• 23:36
  is like okay, change of scenery. What is it about the Cardinals
• 23:39
  that they can't change their scenery to accommodate some of
• 23:41
  these players and get the most out of them?
• 23:43
  I don't have the answer to that and I don't get paid to, right,
• 23:46
  because I'm not in the front office for the Saint Louis
• 23:48
  Cardinals, but for the people that are that is at a certain
• 23:52
  point, the data stacks up and you go, man, what do we got to
• 23:54
  do differently to whether it's relate to these players or put
• 23:58
  these players in positions to succeed?
• 24:00
  That's going to be the conversation.
• 24:02
  If O'Neill does what we're kind of all expecting him to do, if
• 24:04
  he's healthy, Yeah, I think it is interesting.
• 24:07
  OK, real quick. Because you, you talked about a
• 24:09
  couple minutes ago the difficulty, which we all agree
• 24:12
  with, of making that big cease trade, whatever, whatever it
• 24:15
  was. Yeah, How about how about just
• 24:17
  this, though? Look, the Cardinals were bold
• 24:21
  several years ago. Whatever it was four or five
• 24:23
  years ago, you get Arenado. Different situation.
• 24:26
  Obviously, Rocky's kind of had to get get rid of him Cardinals,
• 24:31
  right? Goldie, you were bold.
• 24:34
  And now I feel like we all know the Cardinals are very
• 24:37
  conservative. It's how they do business.
• 24:39
  They run their team like a hedge fund.
• 24:41
  We all get that. But isn't this now maybe the
• 24:45
  time that you should be bold? Maybe you should switch it up.
• 24:50
  Is is what you're doing working the last two, three seasons?
• 24:54
  It doesn't seem like it is. And then going back to, hey, you
• 24:57
  were bold, you got two probable Hall of Fame position players,
• 25:01
  and now I feel like if you're not bold, if you don't take a
• 25:06
  shot, you're going to waste the last good years of those guys,
• 25:10
  Goldie and Arenado. For what?
• 25:12
  I mean, take a shot. Like, I understand being super
• 25:15
  conservative, but if they keep doing it, if it doesn't work, a
• 25:18
  year from now, at the end of 2025, we might say, you know
• 25:22
  what, They just wasted the last good years of golden auto.
• 25:26
  Well, I would say we'll know before then because neither will
• 25:29
  be on a team in 25 if they screw it up this year, Like Goldie
• 25:32
  won't resign, Arenado will ask for a trade, or will the Dodgers
• 25:36
  will be knocking on the door so loudly that the Cardinals will
• 25:38
  just have to go. If we're not resigning Goldie,
• 25:41
  it probably does make sense for us to trade him and and they'll
• 25:44
  all acquiesce. And that'll be what it is.
• 25:46
  So I I think you're 100% right. But what does that look like?
• 25:50
  Because to the Cardinals, when they make moves, it's it's such
• 25:53
  a specific set of circumstances. It's, oh, the guy's got to want
• 25:56
  to be here. He's got to be genetically
• 25:58
  predisposed to coming to Saint Louis, which is like, I get that
• 26:02
  that makes it easier to do a deal from like an interpersonal
• 26:05
  standpoint. Like if I'm John Lizalak and I
• 26:07
  call Sonny Gray and say, hey, am I too late?
• 26:12
  And it's like what we all knew. He was signing Sonny Gray in
• 26:15
  October. Why is he not calling until mid
• 26:17
  November? But he goes, no, you're not too
• 26:19
  late. And they have that conversation.
• 26:20
  Like it took Sonny Gray, like it was the obvious guy that was
• 26:23
  going to be a Cardinal. We all knew it before that phone
• 26:26
  call took place, right? Like that's the way the story
• 26:28
  came out. And so if it's taking that long
• 26:31
  to line up the stars for something we know is going to
• 26:33
  happen in our souls, what's it look like for the Cardinals to
• 26:36
  make a move that we don't see coming?
• 26:38
  And is John Mosalak in his front office capable of doing that
• 26:42
  with the blessing from ownership?
• 26:43
  Because you can't just blame MO. You can't just blame DeWitt.
• 26:46
  It's kind of it's everybody in one unit that if you're saying
• 26:50
  just go for broke and sign Blake Snell or just go for broke and
• 26:53
  make this C strain like it's got to.
• 26:55
  It's got to have the the influence and the blessing of
• 26:58
  everybody. Are they capable of of doing a
• 27:00
  bold move that can that can see something like that through?
• 27:03
  I we we haven't seen it because Arenado wasn't bold, Goldsmith
• 27:07
  wasn't bold. Those teams were trying to trade
• 27:09
  those guys and the Cardinals were in a position financially
• 27:12
  and with the prospects that they had to give up, which wasn't
• 27:14
  much in either case, to be able to capitalize in a way that like
• 27:18
  it just felt so obvious and they deserve credit for doing them.
• 27:21
  I'm not trying to discredit most front office for making those
• 27:24
  deals. It's great that he was able to
• 27:25
  basically swindle both of those teams and the deals that he got
• 27:28
  for these players. But like what?
• 27:31
  What's the move that we that you have to finagle and you?
• 27:34
  They're not basically offering themselves to you.
• 27:36
  Like, yeah, we want to trade this player and it almost
• 27:39
  doesn't matter what we get back for it as long as you're going
• 27:41
  to pay him. That's what Arenado was.
• 27:42
  I know they gave up players, but come on, I mean it.
• 27:45
  They didn't give up premium prospects.
• 27:47
  And when the deal was made, we all went, what are the Rockies
• 27:50
  doing? So the White Sox don't have to
• 27:52
  do that with the Dillon seats, right?
• 27:53
  Like the the Seattle Mariners don't have to do that with a
• 27:55
  Logan Gilbert. There's reason to keep those
• 27:57
  players and build around those players, but that's where it's
• 28:00
  like, all right, we have to make a a trade.
• 28:02
  That's not obviously going to be a win for us when we make it.
• 28:05
  But sometimes you, yeah, maybe you do have to do those things.
• 28:07
  I think that's a fair thing to wonder.
• 28:09
  OK, And I do want to move on to you hating the fans, really
• 28:14
  disliking Cardinal Pence. We're going to get to that.
• 28:15
  OK, good. But I had a thought right there
• 28:18
  at the end. We just saw that Zach Wheeler,
• 28:20
  and we knew Zach Wheeler's probably, you know, going to
• 28:23
  stay with Philly. But how about this argument,
• 28:25
  though? Don't the Cardinals want to be
• 28:28
  good, not just for 2024 but beyond Whatever happens with
• 28:33
  Lance Lynn and and Kyle Gibson, I don't think both of them are
• 28:37
  going to be back in 2025. Maybe one of them and maybe I'm
• 28:40
  wrong, Maybe it is both, but I wouldn't bet on that.
• 28:43
  So so like Montgomery for example.
• 28:46
  I don't know if Monty even wants to come here, but if you made a
• 28:51
  great offer at this point I. Think you.
• 28:53
  Could get him and so. So my argument would be when I
• 28:57
  think about Jordan Montgomery and and and and by the way, this
• 29:01
  is also my brain is now shifted to, hey, I know Sonny Gray's got
• 29:04
  a little little pull in his hamstring, but but to me, Jordan
• 29:08
  Montgomery, it doesn't seem like he's going to get that Aaron
• 29:11
  Nola contract. It's probably going to be five
• 29:13
  years still, whatever it is, doesn't feel like 7 anymore.
• 29:16
  Probably still in the AAV range of 23 to 25, whatever.
• 29:21
  But to me, Jordan Montgomery also makes a lot of sense, not
• 29:24
  just for 2024, but beyond 2024. Like you still want to be good.
• 29:29
  I mean, are you just gonna sign one year, 35 year old pitchers
• 29:32
  for the for the rest of time? No, I don't think they're gonna
• 29:34
  do it for the rest of time. I think they're doing it for
• 29:36
  this specific season because it's a fulcrum point.
• 29:39
  It is a potential pivot point for the organization hinging on
• 29:43
  what happens this year. Do do they get back into
• 29:46
  contention and they can continue as was or do they need a mini
• 29:49
  reset that involves not resigning Goldie.
• 29:52
  That involves considering reloading on the Arenado front
• 29:56
  by getting young players and shedding some of that money.
• 29:58
  Like I think there's a there's they're leaving themselves an
• 30:01
  out by signing one year pitchers and by operating with sort of a
• 30:05
  short term thing. If this season goes terribly
• 30:08
  wrong, they've got an out that in 2025 they can be somewhat
• 30:12
  compelling with young players while also just shedding a lot
• 30:16
  of payroll and resetting as all the the Valley sports stuff sort
• 30:20
  of you know weighs in the balance as well.
• 30:22
  Like I think they would love to just continue on path in in 2023
• 30:26
  is a blip on the radar and they're back to business of 85
• 30:29
  to 90 wins every year. That's still within the realm of
• 30:32
  possibility here. But if you over commit to the
• 30:35
  long term stuff of a three to five year contract for
• 30:38
  Montgomery along with Sonny Grey, it kind of precludes that
• 30:43
  reset from making sense. Because then you're like well
• 30:45
  we're we're spending anyway. We kind of have to go in or out
• 30:48
  on this thing And so that's kind of where I think they are.
• 30:51
  By signing these guys to one year deals, it could be the
• 30:53
  stopgap. And then God willing, one of
• 30:55
  these pitching prospects turns into a guy you can plug into the
• 30:58
  rotation in 2025 without having to spend 11,000,000 plus for
• 31:02
  starting pitchers that fans are trying to replace Steven Matz in
• 31:06
  the rotation. He's making $11 million and he's
• 31:09
  the cheapest of the five. So like they're paying everybody
• 31:12
  You want to go sign a sixth guy to a 11,000,000 plus dollar AAV
• 31:17
  which were Montgomery. The Cardinals look at that and
• 31:19
  that's not even on their radar. Like, unless Sonny Gray is out
• 31:21
  for a long time, that's not something they would even begin
• 31:24
  to consider because like, what do you mean we're paying five
• 31:26
  starters so the sunk cost of we've already had to put
• 31:30
  ourselves into this spot because we can't develop the the guy
• 31:33
  making 700,000 for a few years and put him in our rotation and
• 31:37
  have him be effective. I think that's kind of where
• 31:39
  they are with the whole thing. And if this year, you know one
• 31:43
  of the two of Leonard Gray is good or not Gray Leonard Gibson
• 31:46
  is good and they will say, all right, we'll bring him back on
• 31:48
  the option. We'll let the other go and we
• 31:49
  can slide in a tin cans or a Graceffa or you know whoever to
• 31:53
  KOA Roby like that would look like.
• 31:56
  OK, everything is business as usual, but they're leaving
• 31:59
  themselves that out of not having to over commit to future
• 32:01
  dollars in a time where they don't know if it's going to be
• 32:05
  worth it to do because they they lost 90 games last year and they
• 32:08
  might do it again this year if things go South.
• 32:10
  Yeah, I don't know. I just think the fan base is
• 32:13
  pissed. And I just think all this
• 32:15
  conservatism talk and it's not. First of all we all know they
• 32:20
  have the money. They could absolutely sign
• 32:22
  Jordan Montgomery if they wanted to if they want to if they want
• 32:26
  to just I don't want to say the bad word if they just want to
• 32:29
  kind of dink around and what words I was actually going to
• 32:34
  say the P word. But my my point is like this
• 32:39
  message if you go OK, well you know we're looking no that
• 32:43
  message is not going to resonate with Cardinal Nation if you
• 32:46
  don't make the playoffs in 2024. I'm at some point.
• 32:51
  Look, I understand their business model.
• 32:53
  I appreciate it and it's worked for a long time, but it hasn't
• 32:57
  worked the last couple years. And you can make the argument
• 33:00
  I'm I think I'm being fair. Even some of those years they
• 33:03
  made the playoffs. There was a lot of luck involved
• 33:06
  there and they didn't make deep runs.
• 33:08
  You had the 17 game-winning streak.
• 33:11
  Look, you added pitching at the deadline.
• 33:13
  The pitching did great in some years, way better than anybody.
• 33:16
  Us all included. Expected with the with happen
• 33:19
  Lester So look the the 91 losses that was the eye opener.
• 33:24
  But it has been a downward trend for about 5 years.
• 33:28
  We we all know that. So at some point also the fan
• 33:31
  base gets sick and tired of hearing all of the oh we
• 33:35
  couldn't make it happen And all of the different arbitrage and
• 33:38
  all that. Like everybody on earth knows
• 33:39
  you could sign Jordan Montgomery.
• 33:41
  You absolutely could sign Jordan Montgomery.
• 33:43
  And you know what? If they don't do it, Which
• 33:45
  they're not going to. So I don't even know why we're
• 33:46
  having this conversation. But guess what?
• 33:48
  If the Cardinals don't make the playoffs, I'm sorry, no excuses.
• 33:51
  Like you. You screwed up again.
• 33:53
  You screwed up yet again. Your model no longer works.
• 33:57
  Yeah. The emperor has no clothes.
• 33:58
  Like this is going to be that this is going to be that season
• 34:01
  where you you said the phrase we all see the downward trajectory
• 34:04
  for five years and I think in the public we can we can connect
• 34:08
  those dots. The Cardinals would say, well
• 34:10
  what do you mean? I mean we made the playoffs
• 34:11
  here. We made it there.
• 34:12
  We might have missed here, but we're we've been pretty
• 34:14
  consistent. And hey, 23 was a blip That
• 34:16
  wasn't what we do. You know everything else was
• 34:18
  pretty good, winning seasons. But if it's another one they
• 34:21
  won't be able to hide behind. Like they could kind of wish
• 34:24
  this one away in the way they talk about it.
• 34:25
  Yeah, we we did some things wrong.
• 34:27
  We acknowledge that we know that we need to do it differently.
• 34:29
  So we came in and it doesn't look that different though,
• 34:32
  right, With what they the offseason they had, they had
• 34:34
  some glaring need in starting pitching.
• 34:36
  What they do, they signed a couple back end starters.
• 34:39
  They signed one guy that's an ace, but to a shorter contract
• 34:42
  because it it's less commitment. Over the next five to seven
• 34:45
  years, they only signed the guy to three.
• 34:46
  He's a great pitcher. It could work out, but that's
• 34:48
  kind of very Cardinals Z in the way that they went about it.
• 34:52
  Well, like, it's not really all that different.
• 34:55
  Last year what you do, you had one glaring need.
• 34:57
  It was catcher, and you signed the most expensive catcher.
• 34:59
  We're like, we're good. We did it.
• 35:00
  So yeah, it's not really that. They've operated a whole lot
• 35:03
  differently. I do like the way they've gone
• 35:05
  about the bullpen. This offseason.
• 35:07
  I think Riley O'Brien is going to be really good.
• 35:08
  We'll see if that helps the team, but if they lose 88 games
• 35:12
  this year, you won't be able to with a straight face, as this
• 35:15
  organization, tell the public like no, we're still on the same
• 35:19
  trajectory. These two years are just a blip
• 35:21
  on the radar. It will be unavoidable to the
• 35:24
  public to say, hey, all of the criticism that we've said was
• 35:27
  really going on, on a downward trend for five or six years.
• 35:31
  Like, you can't possibly just will it away and say that it's
• 35:34
  not there if it happens again this year.
• 35:36
  That's why this year is such a a potential pivot point for the
• 35:39
  Saint Louis Cardinals. Yeah by the way we get great
• 35:42
  comments here on YouTube and and follow Brendan as well B shaped
• 35:46
  daily great comments. Now of course there's always
• 35:49
  that one -1 and that's the one that that sticks in your craw
• 35:52
  and one guy said to me he goes, Charlie, you're too sarcastic.
• 35:56
  He says you're just always sarcastic.
• 35:58
  So Brendan, that being said why do you hate the fans?
• 36:02
  What's What's the What's the thing you said We got to talk
• 36:04
  about this. Yeah, I said.
• 36:05
  I had a go. After go ahead, go.
• 36:08
  I got a little rant today and this is not even about YouTube
• 36:11
  people. So maybe, you know, if you're
• 36:12
  coming over from Twitter, I might be talking about you.
• 36:15
  But if you're, you know, if you're a YouTube person
• 36:17
  exclusively, maybe this has nothing to do with you.
• 36:19
  But today, as we record this, on what day is it?
• 36:23
  Thursday as we record this, the Saint Louis Cardinals later
• 36:26
  today are going to play a game in the Grapefruit League against
• 36:30
  the Astros at I think it's at Roger Dean Stadium.
• 36:32
  So what do the Cardinals do? They tweet out in the lineup
• 36:34
  because that's what a good social team would do.
• 36:36
  And on the caption they say because pitcher Kyle Gibson will
• 36:39
  be taking the ball for the Cardinals today.
• 36:41
  They say Gibby on the mound at Roger Dean Stadium.
• 36:45
  And So what does every comment and reply say?
• 36:46
  There's only one Gibby. There's there's this guy's not
• 36:50
  Gibby. Bob Gibson's.
• 36:51
  The only that doesn't look like Bob Gibson.
• 36:56
  Can we get a little perspective please Cardinals fans, I get it.
• 36:59
  Bob Gibson is the greatest. He is the best pitcher in
• 37:02
  Cardinals history. No doubt.
• 37:04
  I love me some Bob Gibson. Kyle Gibson is a 36 year old man
• 37:10
  who also has the surname Gibson and has gone through his life in
• 37:13
  baseball. And you what?
• 37:15
  People have probably called him Gibby because it's his freaking
• 37:18
  name. So.
• 37:19
  You know that? Do you know that for sure?
• 37:21
  When you go, when you go up to Ollie Marley, you say, hey, Kyle
• 37:23
  Gibson, what do you think about? Well, with Gibby, it's Gibby.
• 37:26
  Just call him Gibby like it's. Just.
• 37:27
  I get it. I get it, you know.
• 37:29
  I haven't said hey, Kyle Gibson, what do you think about the fact
• 37:32
  that your name is Gibby and the Cardinals had a great player
• 37:35
  named Gibby? Does that make you feel
• 37:37
  uncomfortable? This would be a ridiculous thing
• 37:39
  to ask to a person because it's his name.
• 37:43
  It's just it's his name. And so I I put out there, I said
• 37:46
  the crusade where we can't call Kyle Gibson Gibby because we God
• 37:51
  bless Bob Gibson, he's the best. But because this team had a guy
• 37:55
  named Gibson who also went by Gibby and that's how everybody
• 37:59
  knows him, is not fair to Kyle Gibson.
• 38:02
  He's been Gibby his entire life I imagine.
• 38:05
  And so this idea that, well, we can't call him, he's on the
• 38:08
  Cardinals now. You got to change your name,
• 38:09
  bud. That is, I just don't even know
• 38:12
  where to begin with that. Well, that was a good rant and
• 38:15
  you're fired up. I was a little fired up, more so
• 38:17
  than I should have been. I get where it comes from, but
• 38:19
  you you want to honor Bob Gibson.
• 38:20
  Totally. But like, people were like,
• 38:23
  well, have you asked him if you if it makes him uncomfortable
• 38:25
  that people call him Gibby now that he's on the Cardinals?
• 38:28
  I'm like, no, because that would be an unhinged thing to ask a
• 38:30
  person. I think it would be nice to say,
• 38:32
  Hey, Kyle Gibson. Cardinals obviously had Bob
• 38:34
  Gibson. You guys have the same name.
• 38:36
  He was great. Do you have any?
• 38:38
  Did you ever meet him? Did you ever like you could you
• 38:40
  could pull, play that angle. You're not going to go up to a
• 38:42
  human being and go, hey man, you know, there was a Gibby here
• 38:45
  before you. Are you sure?
• 38:48
  Are you sure? You should keep going by Gibby?
• 38:50
  Isn't that a little disrespectful?
• 38:51
  That would be absolutely unhinged.
• 38:54
  So that's that. That's my rant.
• 38:56
  But hold on, all right. From what I know and what I've
• 38:59
  seen, Kyle Gibson is just an absolute class individual.
• 39:03
  So I I do think, I do think you could ask him about this in a in
• 39:07
  a fun way in a. Fun way.
• 39:09
  Give you and he'd give you a good answer and he would
• 39:12
  probably even. He's like man, dude, I'm, I'm a
• 39:14
  good pitcher. But Bob Gibson was the man.
• 39:17
  He's he's in the Hall of Fame. And by the way I'm not trying to
• 39:20
  do the the first take here thing, 'cause I believe me, I
• 39:23
  really don't care that much. But I I'm kind of against you on
• 39:27
  this one. Only because Bob Gibson is so
• 39:31
  legendary, right? He is Gibby.
• 39:34
  Unfortunately, he also passed away.
• 39:36
  I think, like, we could have more fun with this if Gibby was
• 39:40
  still alive. Yeah.
• 39:41
  And and at the end, Hey, Gibby, is it OK if we call Kyle Gibson
• 39:44
  Gibby? He's like, yeah, it's fine.
• 39:46
  You know what I'm saying? Like I'm just trying to think
• 39:48
  like what? People are emotional about about
• 39:50
  Bob Gibson, and rightfully so, because he's the.
• 39:53
  Great, right. But OK, like, I think it's
• 39:56
  because his it's his name, though.
• 39:58
  Like if there was another guy who came in and said OK, my
• 40:01
  nickname's the Wizard, right? That's that's a little different
• 40:04
  'cause you you have the Wizard here.
• 40:06
  Like, I totally get the argument this dude has been called Gibby
• 40:10
  his whole life, Kyle Gibson. But Bob Gibson is just such an
• 40:15
  icon. How about this?
• 40:16
  Can we compromise? Can we call Kyle Gibson Gibb or
• 40:19
  Gibber? No, because his name is Gibby.
• 40:22
  That's what he goes by like and I you can call him whatever you
• 40:25
  want in passing other people talking about him.
• 40:28
  It's always Gibby. So that's my context clue of
• 40:30
  like, OK, people call this guy Gibby.
• 40:32
  That's just, that's what he's probably gone through his whole
• 40:34
  life in baseball with. And I don't think it's incumbent
• 40:37
  upon a A10 year, you know, 13 year veteran of the league to go
• 40:41
  well, I'm on the Cardinals now. I guess I have to change my
• 40:43
  name. I understand, too, though, and
• 40:45
  people have made the point to me, that, like, on Twitter is a
• 40:47
  Cardinal fan. It's different than whatever
• 40:50
  people call him in the clubhouse and in his personal life.
• 40:52
  Because I'm not going to meet Bob Gibson or Kyle Gibson and,
• 40:55
  you know, we're not going to have that sort of relation.
• 40:57
  And I get that. But it's just like the The
• 41:00
  Wizard thing's a great example. If somebody else waltzed in here
• 41:03
  and was like, I'm a I'm a shortstop and I play good
• 41:06
  defense. So people have called me the
• 41:07
  Wizard. In other places I've been, can
• 41:09
  y'all call me the Wizard and be like, well, that's never going
• 41:12
  to happen. That doesn't make any sense.
• 41:13
  But it's like, oh, this is the guy's name.
• 41:15
  Oh, what's your name? Kyle Gibson.
• 41:16
  OK, Gibby, it's just a natural thing.
• 41:20
  It's not forced. It's not like we're forcing it
• 41:22
  because it's his name. So that's why I'm like, I don't
• 41:25
  know what you want the guy to. Do OK.
• 41:28
  And again, I want everybody to know I really don't care about
• 41:30
  this, but I do think it's fun to talk.
• 41:31
  About it is fun. To talk about how about this
• 41:34
  'cause you know how hockey players are, everything is
• 41:36
  nicknames, right? So Annie Gibson's going to be
• 41:39
  Gibby Gibber. Whatever it is, how about this?
• 41:42
  You totally understand why Kyle Gibson's teammates would call
• 41:47
  him Gibby. Yeah.
• 41:49
  Is it fair? And by the way, again, this
• 41:50
  doesn't matter. Should the Cardinals official
• 41:53
  accounts, though do it? I think that you know, is it
• 41:57
  fair in saying, look, we understand people are going to
• 42:00
  call him Gibby, but the Cardinals that are all about
• 42:03
  history, should they not call him Gibby?
• 42:07
  Because there's only one Gibby. Is that is that a?
• 42:09
  Fair discussion point. I think it's a fair discussion
• 42:12
  point and a fair question to ask.
• 42:13
  I don't think I'd come down on the same side of the aisle as
• 42:16
  you on this, but I can understand the question.
• 42:19
  But like, Ollie Marmel is a voice of the team, right?
• 42:22
  So when he's talking to the media and there's cameras in his
• 42:24
  face and he's asked about Kyle Gibson, he says, well, Gibby did
• 42:27
  this, you know, is it all that different?
• 42:30
  Because he's an official voice of the team, too, right.
• 42:33
  That's kind of how I. And so like, that's a person
• 42:35
  I've heard say it more than anybody is, Ollie Marmel over
• 42:37
  the past three weeks. So I think, you know, I knew
• 42:41
  this would be the reaction when I saw the tweet.
• 42:43
  And like, I I thought it was fun.
• 42:44
  Not because I wanted like, oh, let's, you know, denigrate Bob
• 42:48
  Gibson in any way. But I also knew like Cardinals
• 42:50
  fans are going to have a problem with this.
• 42:52
  And they, to me, they they shouldn't.
• 42:54
  There's no reason. It's just the guy's name.
• 42:57
  And like you said, Kyle Gibson, the best dude, He probably would
• 43:00
  have all the great things to say about Bob Gibson and and and
• 43:03
  very respectful and all that. So I'm like, I don't really
• 43:06
  think there's a problem here. And it's just, I just, it's his
• 43:11
  name, you know Matt Carpenter is Carp, right?
• 43:14
  Like he's, I get it. There was a Chris Carpenter, but
• 43:17
  you know what everybody calls him?
• 43:18
  Carp or marp? Nobody calls him that.
• 43:22
  And I like, but back in the day I was like, Oh yeah, like I'll
• 43:26
  say my view on this has shifted. Maybe the more I've like.
• 43:29
  I had a conversation with Matt Carpenter.
• 43:31
  He said my shoes were nice. That was good.
• 43:33
  It's like I I think well they're they're like Nike Air Max.
• 43:38
  They're actually he goes are those actually golf shoes?
• 43:40
  I'm like yeah they are but I got them for Christmas.
• 43:41
  They're great. They were like a little bit
• 43:43
  purple. So I think he was like oh TCU
• 43:45
  kind of maybe that connection. But anyway like I've I, I even
• 43:49
  look back I was like I probably have said Mark on Twitter in
• 43:52
  passing because it's kind of funny but I think most of the
• 43:55
  time I'm calling him Carp because that's just his name.
• 43:59
  And yeah, there's a Chris Carpenter who was, you know, on
• 44:02
  the Cardinals too. But that that doesn't mean like
• 44:04
  we got to come up with something else to call you.
• 44:06
  Like, I don't know, it's just his name.
• 44:08
  You know, Like, I think it's, I think it's a Twitter thing that
• 44:11
  I know I'm taking too far. But it also, like you said, it's
• 44:14
  fun to talk about. So I like to kind of mix it up.
• 44:17
  OK and and by the way I I do think this is interesting and
• 44:21
  and you brought up a a different point to build off.
• 44:23
  And by the way, Matt Carpenter, great Cardinal.
• 44:27
  We'll be a Cardinals Hall of Famer this Carpenter, even
• 44:31
  greater Cardinal, Cardinals Hall of Famer.
• 44:33
  If healthy, Chris Carpenter probably would have been a a
• 44:36
  baseball Hall of Famer if things went differently earlier in his
• 44:40
  career. But I do think there's a
• 44:42
  difference because those guys are great Cardinals, but they're
• 44:46
  not on the Mount Rushmore. There's the Mount Rushmore of
• 44:49
  Cardinals, and whoever that is, obviously Stan Gibby.
• 44:53
  Then it gets tough because you have, you have Lou Brock, Albert
• 44:57
  Ozzie. So that's five.
• 44:58
  And I'm probably missing people, but my point is Gibby's
• 45:02
  different man. Gabby's just different.
• 45:04
  I'm sorry, Bob Gibson, we've all met him.
• 45:07
  He was just different man. Not just on the mound, his
• 45:10
  presence, his demeanor, the story, 100%.
• 45:13
  He's a freaking icon. So look, I don't usually side
• 45:17
  with Cardinals Nation on stuff like this, but I kind of side
• 45:20
  with them on on. This if your argument is the
• 45:22
  official account doing the Gibby thing to because maybe kind of
• 45:26
  knowing tongue in cheek what it's what's going to happen and
• 45:29
  that maybe there's no need for that I could get behind going
• 45:32
  all right. I can see I don't have an issue
• 45:34
  with it personally. But if it's like the official
• 45:36
  arm of the team, like you said, you you can avoid it simply by
• 45:40
  just but it's but it's also the guy's name.
• 45:42
  It's a current pitcher that's on your team that you're like, hey,
• 45:45
  this is our guy, so I can understand your side of it.
• 45:50
  But I did have to rant about it because I thought it was kind of
• 45:52
  fun. I thought it was.
• 45:54
  And I also was not sure. I didn't tell you ahead of time
• 45:56
  what we were going to talk about.
• 45:57
  So I thought Charlie's probably going to see the other side of
• 45:59
  this and you do, and that's fine.
• 46:01
  But hold on a second. Hold on.
• 46:02
  Wait, I hold on. I did see your tweet.
• 46:06
  Yeah. And right.
• 46:07
  Right when you said that, I knew you were going to want to talk
• 46:09
  about it. OK.
• 46:10
  And look I always say exactly how I feel like honestly on all
• 46:15
  the podcasts I do I probably agree with folks too much like
• 46:19
  sometimes it's more interesting for you and I to debate or or
• 46:21
  whatever it is. Right.
• 46:22
  This is one I I would never do the first take thing where I
• 46:26
  where I just take the other side just for content.
• 46:29
  Yeah. You're not faking this right.
• 46:31
  Right. I think this is a tweener.
• 46:33
  But I, I, I don't really care folks, everybody.
• 46:36
  Just so you know. But I, I am on the other side of
• 46:38
  this one from you slightly. You want people to go up to Kyle
• 46:42
  Gibson and go, hey, Kay Gibb, what do you wait, what's up?
• 46:45
  Give give. K What's up, brother?
• 46:48
  How about, How about, How about? OK, how about a compromise?
• 46:52
  No. How about No, no, this is good.
• 46:55
  I just thought of this. Got it?
• 46:57
  K Gibby. Here's why.
• 46:59
  For pitchers, K's strikeouts, Sure.
• 47:03
  And it's still Gibby's in there. Yeah, it makes sense.
• 47:06
  You got one Gibby, and you got K Gibby.
• 47:08
  Anytime you have to go, how about to, like, force a nickname
• 47:12
  upon somebody is probably not going to work.
• 47:15
  But I can. I can get behind the clubhouse
• 47:17
  calling him Gibby and the Cardinals official account going
• 47:21
  all right, is this worth it? It's is this worth what it's
• 47:25
  going to make people feel? Because we want people to get
• 47:28
  behind Kyle Gibson and not give him a reason to go.
• 47:32
  How you know, how dare they call call him Gibby?
• 47:35
  Because we had a Gibby, I can see it.
• 47:37
  I can see both sides. It's fun.
• 47:39
  It's definitely fun. I already know the comments are
• 47:41
  going to. I mean I'm ready for it.
• 47:43
  The comments are going to go. This Brendan Shaffer sucks.
• 47:46
  There's there's only one Gibby Charlie Marlowe for life.
• 47:49
  But like you said, we got to be, we got to be honest about what
• 47:51
  we think about a thing and and I think we both did that here.
• 47:55
  All right. What we'll do also.
• 47:56
  So the second we end here, which is going to be in about 10
• 47:59
  minutes, folks, I promise, you know, we went 15 minutes on
• 48:01
  Gibby, but that was just it. Happened, They'll be able to see
• 48:03
  how long the video is. You don't have to tell them this
• 48:05
  part. I know you're you're.
• 48:07
  What I'm saying is I'm going to quickly edit this, put it out
• 48:11
  YouTube. I'll wait on podcast a little
• 48:13
  bit. But I'm going to, I'm going to,
• 48:15
  I'm going to edit this chunk about just Gibby, and I'm going
• 48:19
  to put it right on Twitter. For people to watch.
• 48:22
  On Twitter. OK, so again, you said don't say
• 48:26
  this, but I'm going to Let's just go about 10 more minutes.
• 48:29
  So empty your notebook, Edmund. What's going on?
• 48:33
  Lance Lynn? What's going on?
• 48:34
  And then like I said, if you want to talk for the next 10
• 48:36
  minutes about all of your spring training sights and sounds, just
• 48:39
  go ahead. Well.
• 48:40
  Ask me a more pointed question about like my my spring training
• 48:43
  meal or two at the end, Lance Lynn, I don't think there's
• 48:47
  really anything going on other than Ollie Marmol has continued
• 48:50
  to describe that. Like, he kind of prefers to ramp
• 48:53
  up on the back fields and then get into Grapefruit League
• 48:56
  games. I don't think he's really behind
• 48:58
  at all. We'll see.
• 48:59
  Obviously when he gets out there, how many pitches he's
• 49:01
  throwing, but I think he'll think he'll be OK.
• 49:03
  Steven Matz kind of a similar thing, but I think they
• 49:06
  preferred for him to be ramping up on the backfields.
• 49:09
  He's now gotten into a Grapefruit League game through a
• 49:10
  good inning. Pitch count wise, he might be a
• 49:13
  little bit a tick off, but I don't think it's going to be
• 49:15
  anything that if he's the 4th or 5th guy in the rotation to begin
• 49:18
  the year, he should be just fine.
• 49:21
  Tommy Edmonds a different situation though.
• 49:23
  Again, I'm back in Missouri now, but I saw that reporters
• 49:27
  yesterday. We're kind of hearing from the
• 49:30
  Cardinals. They talked about Tommy Edmond,
• 49:32
  that they basically shut him down for a brief period of time
• 49:35
  from the baseball activity that he was doing.
• 49:37
  And now he's kind of back as of yesterday to Ground Zero, of
• 49:41
  hitting off a tee and playing catch, whereas he had advanced
• 49:45
  to like doing drills defensively and throwing from the outfield.
• 49:48
  Not at full strength, but he was doing it and hitting wise from
• 49:52
  one side of the plate. I think he was even maybe doing
• 49:54
  coach pitch. The others just BP the other
• 49:56
  side of the plate, more like little drills, front toss and
• 50:00
  stuff like that to try and get up to speed from.
• 50:03
  I think the right side is where he was behind, it really doesn't
• 50:05
  matter anymore because they stopped him completely and now
• 50:07
  he's got to have to sort of restart that process.
• 50:10
  And my question would be, like, all right, if this guy, we knew
• 50:13
  last year he had wrist issues and then he tries to rehab it
• 50:16
  all offseason and comes back and is still kind of having some
• 50:19
  pain, wouldn't that be the sign of, like, shoot, he's got to
• 50:22
  have a surgery or something to fix it?
• 50:24
  Well, he had the surgery and it's still kind of, you know
• 50:27
  what I mean? It's still kind of having those
• 50:28
  issues. So is it just a matter of it's a
• 50:30
  minor thing, he'll continue to kind of have some discomfort
• 50:33
  until he's back to full strength?
• 50:34
  Or is it like, does it devolve into like what's going on here?
• 50:39
  At some point, if they have to then set him back again?
• 50:42
  I'm a little bit like I phrased it yesterday on the radio
• 50:45
  between Sonny Gray and Edmund. I think Edmund could be back
• 50:49
  first because for Gray it almost feels like it has to be
• 50:52
  mid-april because his arm is not going to be built up even when
• 50:56
  the hamstring is ready. But worst case scenario, I'm
• 50:59
  more nervous about Tommy Edmund because I think there's there's
• 51:02
  room for him to be out for longer.
• 51:04
  If they can't figure out, you know, why is he still having
• 51:07
  discomfort? Gotcha.
• 51:09
  OK. Best meal.
• 51:11
  Did you make it to the beach? Or we can also throw in back to
• 51:15
  baseball, A guy we're not talking about, maybe that
• 51:17
  impressed you, just kind of what do you got?
• 51:20
  I mean, we're talking about Riley O'Brien, but I would put
• 51:23
  it like 98% he's on this team barring something crazy.
• 51:26
  He's been awesome and it's going to be a good, a good addition to
• 51:29
  where like I think he can work his way into like a a legit set
• 51:32
  up role where they trust him in 7th, 8th inning situations along
• 51:37
  with the other guys that they have out there.
• 51:38
  He throws like 9890 like he's he's good, he's he's going to be
• 51:41
  a good one, best meal. We went to Captain Charlie's
• 51:46
  Reef Grill like 2 or we went three times really good seafood
• 51:50
  place did go to Guanabano's right because it's just like the
• 51:54
  a great view out there at the the Tiki bar.
• 51:57
  I don't think you got like an appetizer there but didn't
• 51:59
  didn't eat, but just a really great view on the water.
• 52:02
  Rocco's Tacos. I did not go to Rocco's Tacos
• 52:05
  and here's why. It's kind of off the beaten
• 52:07
  path. I was staying in Abacoa so I
• 52:10
  didn't really have to leave and go down, you know, to PGA or or
• 52:13
  even further to West. I didn't go to West Palm at all.
• 52:16
  Downtown West Palm the whole time I was there because it's
• 52:18
  just far. And right there in Abacoa is a
• 52:20
  place called Taco Shack that is fantastic with a great happy
• 52:24
  hour. And I was like, I could just go
• 52:25
  here every day. And then the other one,
• 52:27
  Obviously Crux Coffee is fantastic, but the the Cuban
• 52:31
  restaurant Copacabana, not Jon Crock.
• 52:34
  The Cuban restaurant Copacabana there in Abacoa maybe was my
• 52:38
  best overall meal, 'cause I just left that place like, oh, this
• 52:41
  was really good. And so that's kind of my my
• 52:45
  Mount Rushmore, if you will, of spots down in Jupiter.
• 52:49
  All right. Yeah, I did make it to the beach
• 52:50
  a couple times. Nice.
• 52:52
  And you and you had the family down there, so I'm sure that was
• 52:54
  fun. Yeah, toward the end of work I
• 52:57
  was working, but it was good to be able to the first two weeks,
• 53:00
  no wife, no son. I hadn't been apart from him for
• 53:04
  that two weeks ever before. And so he was down and he, he
• 53:07
  went to the beach like almost every day.
• 53:09
  But I went like a couple times with them and it was good.
• 53:11
  It was a lot of fun. So OK, let's end it like this.
• 53:15
  What if your son was watching the game and Kyle Gibson was
• 53:19
  pitching and he pointed to the screen and said Gibby, Gibby,
• 53:23
  would you correct him? Yeah, we're going to have to
• 53:25
  have a talk about that obviously.
• 53:27
  You know, I just, I can't allow that in my household.
• 53:30
  I'm sorry. All right, let's end on that.
• 53:32
  You know what? Hey, we're we're Dang close to
• 53:34
  an hour. You're gonna you're gonna clip
• 53:36
  that together too when you post it on Twitter.
• 53:38
  At end it with that like that's more work.
• 53:41
  That's more work than I really want.
• 53:42
  It's another it's another like a nice easy edit.
• 53:45
  I might. You know what?
• 53:47
  You might want It wouldn't be hard.
• 53:48
  It wouldn't be hard 'cause you could just cut out the entire
• 53:51
  middle. It would take like I bet 40
• 53:53
  extra. Seconds of your time.
• 53:54
  I might do that. I actually probably should do
• 53:56
  that. All right, Brendan, great stuff
• 53:58
  and and you know, Thursdays feel good right now.
• 54:02
  But folks, once the season starts, we'll probably do more
• 54:04
  than one per week. We'll we'll figure out a
• 54:07
  schedule. We're going to have to hit them
• 54:09
  over the head with us to get them to know that this is a
• 54:12
  thing. You know what I mean?
• 54:13
  Like, once people know this is a thing, I think they'll enjoy it.
• 54:15
  But you know we're it's still a new venture right now so.
• 54:19
  But I think people are enjoying it.
• 54:21
  I think so. Our first one to me, and this is
• 54:24
  boring, but on YouTube it's all about the title.
• 54:28
  That first one was when Goldie wasn't.
• 54:31
  The news was Goldie isn't going to be extended.
• 54:34
  So there was some news elements and you throw that in the title
• 54:37
  and all of a sudden it got double the view.
• 54:38
  So I do think right now Sonny Grey is is very.
• 54:42
  But how do you do it? We'll do this.
• 54:43
  We'll do this. Behind the curtain, on the air.
• 54:45
  How do you do it? Is it like, do you title it like
• 54:48
  how many starts will Sonny Grey make?
• 54:50
  Or is it is Do you target one specific element that we do talk
• 54:53
  about? It's not clickbait, 'cause we
• 54:55
  talk about it, but like, what's the sunny Gray angle that you'll
• 54:57
  go with? That's what I'm fascinated to
• 54:59
  find out. I wouldn't.
• 55:00
  I wouldn't say fascinated is the right word.
• 55:02
  But I can't wait to see something like Let's all judge
• 55:05
  it. Something like let's all
• 55:07
  overreact to sunny Gray, something like that.
• 55:10
  And by the way, if it doesn't do well, I change the title an.
• 55:13
  Hour Oh yeah, Is the Cardinals season over?
• 55:16
  Because Sunny Gray has a hamstring, something like that,
• 55:20
  that's very click baiting Jim, Jim the Cat Hayes would be be
• 55:23
  very upset if you made that to time.
• 55:25
  Yeah, he never does that right himself.
• 55:28
  I'll see you tomorrow. I'll be on the show.
• 55:30
  All right. All right.
• 55:31
  Well, hey, good stuff. Brendan Schaefer, B Schafe
• 55:34
  Daily. Check him out on YouTube, here
• 55:36
  and on Twitter. Thank you guys for watching.
• 55:39
  Please comment, like, subscribe, share the show, share the
• 55:42
  channel, put it in your group text, put it on your social
• 55:45
  media, and get the word out. We're counting on you.
• 55:48
  We appreciate you Keep the comments coming, even if it's
• 55:51
  hashtag sign, Trevor Bauer and Charlie.
• 55:53
  You're way too sarcastic. OK, Brendan, Great job buddy.
• 55:57
  Or complaining that I call him Gibby.
• 55:59
  All right. See you guys.
• 56:00
  See ya.