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Dr. Tanvi Gandhi - Healing the Mind, Body & Nervous System · She’s Smart

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Hey, everybody. Welcome to She's Smart. I'm your host, Maria Robotham.
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Each week, we sit down with incredible women to talk about life,
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work, and everything in between.
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Today's guest is Dr. Tanvi Gandhi. Dr.
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Tanvi is a naturopathic physician, licensed acupuncturist, and integrative psychiatry
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provider who blends science and healing in a way that feels both grounded and
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incredibly thoughtful.
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She studied microbiology, immunology, and genetics at UCLA,
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did research at the National Institute of Health, and then followed a path that
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led her to really rethink how we approach healing, not just symptoms,
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but understanding the full picture of mind, body, and spirit.
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She's also the founder of Shiva Shakti Acupuncture and Ayurveda.
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And what I loved so much about our conversation is how she describes herself as a bridge.
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A bridge between modern medicine and ancient practices, and also a bridge for
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her patients holding space for their stories while helping guide them toward healing.
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In this episode, we talk about everything from integrative psychiatry and acupuncture
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to the nervous system, anxiety, and why so many of us are feeling overwhelmed right now.
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We also dive into this idea of narrative medicine, how the stories we tell ourselves
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can actually shape how we heal.
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Dr. Tanvi gives us real, simple ways we can start to take care of ourselves,
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things we can actually do in our everyday lives.
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This conversation felt calming, eye-opening, and honestly just really needed right now.
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So get cozy as we connect, learn, and laugh together on She's Smart with Dr. Tanvi Gandhi.
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There. Hello. How are you doing today?
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I'm doing really well. I'm happy that this spring is arriving.
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Right? I just planted some ranunculas yesterday and two peonies.
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Beautiful. I couldn't stop. My husband was like, let's just wait.
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I'm like, no, no, I'm just gonna.
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I got the roots and then I put the ranunculas in completely wrong because I'm not a gardening person.
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I just, I buy flowers. So I had to go in this morning and dig them all up and
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put them back up. That's okay.
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They're going to be beautiful no matter what, right?
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Yeah, it's going to be gorgeous. I think it's a perfect time because it's going
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to now not get super cold.
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Right? We're on our way. Well, thank you so much for joining me on She's Smart.
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This is super fun to have you on and get to talk all things mental health and acupuncture.
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And I have so many questions, so I'm just going to start diving in,
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okay? Yeah, I'm excited. Thank you.
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Good. All right. So you have a really interesting background of science and then holistic healing.
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So take us back. What originally pulled you in to like this work you're doing
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right now from where you started?
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So I was in medical school for a year in California. I grew up in California. Me too.
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Oh, my God. Yeah. What part of California are you from? Southern.
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Okay. All right. I'm from San Francisco.
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Oh, pretty. Yeah. California is beautiful. Yeah.
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Beautiful spot. Okay. So I grew up there. I didn't actually know about naturopathic medicine.
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I was in high school, and then I did my undergrad at UCLA in microbiology,
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immunology, genetics, heavy science. I did a lot of research work,
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which was part of the program.
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And then I moved to NIH for internship. But while I was doing an internship,
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I'd already gotten acceptance to med school.
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But while I was doing my internship, which was very science focused,
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I got to attend some of the complementary and integrative medicine sessions at NIH.
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But I don't know, got me thinking what type of medicine I want to practice,
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like what I want to be, even though I just always, knew I wanted to do med school.
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And I knew I wanted to do mental health, but just how it was going to look like,
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I couldn't have predicted it. So I was just following the path.
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So I did go back and do a year of med school. And then I decided to move.
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To Connecticut to do naturopathic medical school. And there was no naturopathic
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medical school in California then.
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There were a lot of acupuncture programs. Acupuncture is accepted more in terms of mainstream already.
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So yeah, it's kind of, I did not think I would end up in Connecticut.
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I don't think, I mean, I don't think I would end up here.
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And I thought I lived in New York and I was like, all right,
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that's where I always wanted to live.
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That makes sense. But then met my husband had babies and
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you just kind of and it's a nice yeah exactly there's
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more space it makes sense for the so yeah
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I looked up on the map where Connecticut was I was closer to New York I assumed
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that it was gonna be okay we're gonna survive it but it was it was really yeah
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so I met a naturopathic physician then she had studied in the west coast there's
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many programs in Oregon in Washington,
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not in California, but she was inspiring me.
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I was telling her my story and she was like, yes, you're on the right path.
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You got to go to naturopathic medical school. So that's how it started.
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Something I could not have planned. My parents were not sure what I was doing.
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When I was in med school, I was 22.
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So, you know, it's like you're still trying to understand what life is.
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But I just, I knew like what I wanted to do.
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It just, the path kind of just unfolded. I feel like it was hard to make a decision
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of quitting med school, I would say. And I still at some times I'm like,
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how did I do that? But I just knew that I wanted to do it in a different way.
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But it really prepared me.
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I mean, the science background and the science and like you say,
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holistic medicine or like integrative medicine is really where we look at the
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science and the spirit both.
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The spirituality and mental health is really interesting to me.
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But at the same time, the science of body-mind connection and educating my patients
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that especially I enjoy working with teens and young adults and introducing
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them to this concept because they're also curious and exploring. So it's really nice to.
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Bring them in that state where we need both. I feel like the integration of science and spirit.
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So yeah, I've never understood why we don't, more people don't practice that way.
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Just even traditional doctors don't practice that way because there's such a
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connection between stress and what happens to your body and your heart.
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And we'll get into that, but I'm in agreement with you. I always find that you
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need both in some capacity, right?
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If you're going through something, you need to have the
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mental strength to be able to push through
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it and that adds into the medical side
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of it right you need to have a combination of those
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two things so you described yourself as a
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bridge so yeah yeah talk to us
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about that talk to us about that bridge so also like within the naturopathic
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medical school and then i did oriental medicine i've studied ayurveda and i
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studied with the mayan shaman so it's just i knew that there's like similarities
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and all of that like intuitively but it was really cool to understand like the map of human body.
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How the ancients understood it and how we're, you know, the neuroscience who
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are still understanding how the brain works and even the body mind connection.
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So I think the bridge between the ancient and modern is really how I,
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cause I feel so connected to the ancient, but at the same time,
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you know, I want to be able to integrate in the current times.
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And I feel like the way my, I guess, educational exploration kind of unfolded
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really helped me gather all of that.
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And now I'm able to like practice it. I also did my fellowship in integrative psychiatry.
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So I did all the schooling, as I mentioned, but I really want to do specialized in mental health.
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And as a naturopath, I was able to, you know, there are not as many opportunities
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because we're still like a minority in terms of profession, but I'm so glad
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I was able to do a program, which was mostly a psychiatrist and psychotherapist, but that's like the.
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Those are the collaborators or the doctors that I am around,
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whether I'm working at Silver Hill or in my private practice.
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So it's really nice to just, yeah, I feel the bridge has been who I am and I'm
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understanding it more, like how it actually comes alive in my day-to-day practice.
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Yeah. So integrative psychiatry, for the people who were like just getting listening
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to this and for myself included, can you tell us a little bit about what that
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entails and what that is? I think the body-mind-spirit connection.
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So integration happens, whether we're understanding the story of illness or story of suffering,
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whether it's, you know, what is causing the condition itself,
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and then helping understand like how it relates to the body and how it relates to the mind,
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where the imbalances are, you know, not just necessarily treating the symptom,
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which, you know, at times it's not.
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Needed and i appreciate that as well but it's like
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how do we get into the deeper layers
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of healing which which i think that when
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the integration happens it just makes it much more wholesome and i think it's
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true holistic way of looking at it when we're able to integrate that and i feel
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like there's just more understanding of that too in the modern times or especially
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post-covid like mental health and that's.
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Physical health, but also like talking about mental health more.
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Yeah. And how is it different than just regular mental health?
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Like if you're going to just a regular therapist, how does it differ from what
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they're doing versus what you're doing?
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So I'm a naturopathic physician. So my scope of practice is I'm trying to utilize various modalities.
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I'm not a prescription provider. So obviously a psychiatrist or a psychotherapist
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who is doing counseling, my approach would be very much body-centric and helping
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the body-mind connection, the body-mind-spirit connection.
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So the somatics is where it comes in. And that's where acupuncture is just amazing
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for that mind-body-spiritual connection.
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And various other modalities I use, like craniosacral therapy,
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and just understanding the story.
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Narrative medicine comes in, which I know it's another term that I have.
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So talk to me a little bit about the acupuncture part of this.
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So I have seen therapists.
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I have seen acupuncturists. I've been literally on a massage table and started
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bawling hysterically because she got to one part of my body that was holding
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just whatever needed to be released.
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And I was a mess on the table. Thank God she was a wonderful human being and
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just let me cry it out. But I have had acupuncture for panic attacks.
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And I don't know if it helped so much as like I was ready to start finding help
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for it instead of just kind of living through it.
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So talk to us about how acupuncture helps in the in the mental health part of
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your practice. Yes. Yeah, absolutely.
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Acupuncture is just the aspect of using the specific points on the channels.
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They are parallel to the nerve pathway. So these are called meridians.
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And just by stimulating them, we're creating the connection,
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we're sending the signal from the body to the brain.
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And then the brain is sending the feedback back to the body.
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So it's very physiological Like you can, you know, whether it's for helping with pain,
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inflammation Or just like a mental health condition It
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instantly helps the connection with body
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And sometimes it's uncomfortable certain areas And sometimes you don't feel
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them at all And the idea is the most important effect It helps your nervous
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system to go into like a rest and digest state And that's where the vagus nerve
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comes in And my acupuncture really directly affects vagus nerve.
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But in terms of understanding of what it's doing, it like regulates the nervous system.
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The nervous system is regulated. The heart rate slows down. You're more at ease.
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And there are times when I don't use acupuncture when that's too much,
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like someone having a really acute, acute cancer.
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Mental health issues sometimes you just need like
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gentle therapeutic touch like for children
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and teens i sometimes use just like marma
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which is like ayurvedic but it's just like pressure points and
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then teach them how to massage that a lot of times i introduce
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that and then open up to acupuncture because it
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can seem invasive it's very gentle and you've tried it so you know but it's
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a nice opening it's not a deep tissue massage but it's abdominal massage which
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helps massage organ system which is the mayan method so yeah i just meet the
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person where they are like in terms of what their body and then help them.
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Then the story unfolds, whether it's like an emotional release.
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I don't know if you've heard of craniosacral, which is another modality.
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Yeah, that's really powerful. And I would say that I also incorporate that along.
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So I kind of use all of this modalities and just based on where the patient's
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at assessing based on that, I will use it.
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So tell me a little bit more. Okay, I want to go into the Mayan technique,
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because I've never heard of that before.
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And I've had lymphatic drainage done like I've
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had that done which is very very gentle at
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first I was like I thought they were really gonna dig in there
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it is absolutely not like that that's so superficial it's very
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gentle that one was good and then I want to talk about a little bit about the
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craniosacral as well because I'm not sure how educated everyone listening is
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on that one so tell us just go into that Mayan technique with the stomach massage
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and the organs yeah so I got training through Arbego Institute,
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which is in New Hampshire.
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It's from ancient Mayan tradition of healing the body, but gut or the abdominal
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area as a central part of it, which even now in terms of the neuroscience.
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We talk about the gut brain axis to really help the mind, to really help the nervous system.
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We also need to know what's going on with the gut.
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So just gently massaging.
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It's not like a deep tissue massage and it's not like a lymphatic massage either
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it's just a very specific way of massaging the organ systems you can feel the
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liver the intestines the stomach and we talk about how the body the cells store
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information story trauma experiences and.
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Witness a lot of emotional releases as well during the work.
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Also, you know, digestion, elimination, that there's issues like the GI stuff
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sometimes what comes up when we're talking about anxiety, even trauma.
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And like the gut is just such a central access. And vagus nerve too goes from
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your brain to your organ system.
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So we can directly, when we massage the diaphragm, we can access,
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we can really help the nervous system physically again into that rest and digest
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mode. I would say a lot of patients respond really well.
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The abdominal area, a lot of people are not comfortable.
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I mean, it's the idea of massaging abdomen.
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It's getting more, I think, I guess at least understood or mainstream,
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but it's not just, I would say it's not as familiar for a lot of people.
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Yeah. I hope my children don't kill me, But when they have gas pain,
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I've taught them how to gently massage their stomach to kind of like from one
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side to the next, how you digest.
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So they'll lie down now and like and do that gentle.
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I'm like, you don't dig in there like you don't need to get into your intestine.
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But like that gentle movement helps them on those occasions when they need it.
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So I didn't know where it actually came from. so now i'm sure
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there are other you know i think we talk about that in oriental medicine
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and ayurveda too so it's very similar but that's where
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that training really helped me and you
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can really feel like the physical like you
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can feel when the nervous system relaxes you can
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feel that unwinding or releasing
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and also with fertility and women's
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health i use that a
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lot as well and it's because a massage is
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a womb it massages the uterus we're massaging the digestive organs as well as
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the uterus and so like menstruation cycles or like helping with fertility sometimes
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the body mind connection like helping just connection with the womb a lot of
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times patients will tell me don't really feel connected like what does that even mean.
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And there's like a, yeah, physically helping connection.
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It really, every time you bring awareness to anywhere in your body,
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improves the blood circulation, we call it, it moves the chi, it helps the energy.
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So, so many ways to do that. But this is like one of, I feel like really powerful
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ways. And then I teach my patients how to do it on their own too.
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So something that they can do it as self-care, which is really important.
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Yes, they can take it home and be able to do it for themselves.
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So tell me about the craniosacral.
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I have friends who've had their children go in and do it.
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This is not adjustment. This is different.
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So explain to us how it actually works.
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So the craniosacral. So cranium is your head. Sacrum is your tailbone.
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There is a fluid, it's called a cerebrospinal fluid, that moves from your head,
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circulates in your head, and that's the fluid that moves throughout your spine to spinal fluid.
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And that's also connected to your lymphatic system.
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So we're focusing on the pulsation and the movement of that fluid from the sacrum
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to the cranium and the cranium to the sacrum.
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And we check the pulses when you're assessing like
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which side of the body feels more there's holding
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tightness which side of the body you can't feel the pulse as
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much which side of the body you feel the pulse so that's like
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assessment and the idea is you can actually mobilize the cranial bones you're
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not adjusting it's just gentle way of helping the cranial bones to move because
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cranial bones are not rigid there's a little bit of fluidity and that's because
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of their bathing in the cerebrospinal fluid.
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So it's for physical issues like pain, like brain trauma, but also it helps
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the nervous system to regulate.
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If we work the brain and the sacrum, it's like the whole axis that we talk about,
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which is your higher centers of the brain, your pituitary gland, your adrenal system.
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So we're directly impacting the nervous system. So a lot of patients respond to that really well.
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And many times it's perceived as less invasive than acupuncture.
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Again, when they're in such an acute state, it's just a little bit more gentler.
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So that and kids respond again, like kids really respond well because it's it's
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gentle, but it's so powerful.
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And I can imagine with kids, too, the idea of any needle is probably a little
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unnerving, even for adults.
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But for kids that I'm just going to do a little bit here on the back of the neck and.
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Yeah, just helping them more open to it. And then, yeah, I feel like that they're
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just so receptive. I really enjoy working on kids and doing great music.
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So let's talk a little bit about kids, because I was reading one of the articles
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you wrote about sound bath and sound therapy with adolescents.
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Yeah. I know that, I mean, for us growing up, music was just a part of our lives and everything.
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We'd listen to music when we studied. I listened to music before I had a big swim meet.
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And it was different, right? And this is music. This isn't just tones.
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I know there's like a different sound bath, but music in itself,
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the noise, my kids sleep with rain sounds now.
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All right. They're like super, like super booshies.
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These poor kids when they get married and they're sound machines and they're roommates in college.
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But they have started to find that certain noises really help them.
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And your article was talking about how these sound baths that you're doing can
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help adolescents with calming down, with nervous energy.
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And I'd love to find out more about that and talk about that a little bit.
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Again, sounds are so, children and teens are so receptive to sounds.
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It's so much easy to kind of make it accessible to them.
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The way it works is, so there's so many different instruments.
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I use like specific crystal bowls with different frequencies.
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And what I do is I guide them into like a meditation a little bit to ground them and then.
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Play the instruments based on, you know, again, like I get a sense that most
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of the times with adolescents, you got to anchor them a little bit,
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like round them a little bit, because there's that energy.
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And sometimes I have them play it, like if they're so distracted,
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and they're not going to be laying down and doing, they can come and hit the
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ball, which is almost like improvisation, I wouldn't do that. And like an adult group.
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It's the curiosity it's like helps them understand oh this
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is this is a cool thing to do if they are being
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introduced for the first time it's just going to be something
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to break into them it has to be like meeting them.
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Where they are at it's very interesting my groups with adolescents.
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I just kind of i get a sense of how then sometimes
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they're just super receptive they're like wow i feel the sound
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from one ear to other like their system
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is so receptive that once they're able to like
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engage i think the engagement piece is so important even
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with adults but specifically for children and i know you have
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children so you can it's like engaging them once they're engaged they
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just get into that state and we're helping
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the brain to slow down and some of the tones will
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help the brain to go into like the
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delta states which is like it's between sleep and meditation
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so kind of get into that calm restful state
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sometimes they'll fall asleep with their
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energies so heightened and now they're like really grounding
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which is why you can fall asleep in there i
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also use tuning forks i sometimes use them with acupuncture
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or with marma just to add a little
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bit of vibration it's just like a audible vibration but
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not like a tone so creative with
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what i use and then i also have string
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instruments which i find like teens really like that
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and again they want to play then i just let them play for
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a little bit and then they're like they release that energy or
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something and then they are able to get back to it so i used to call it a sound
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lab instead of a sound bath and they like that word better so just make it i
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bet some of these kids that i mean with the phones and the constant access and the yeah.
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Everything's so fast paced, like even movies.
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Right. When we were kids, we would watch Disney movies that today are my kids
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would be like, this is so boring.
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Like, everything's got so fast paced and their attention span is so much shorter
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because everything has become so quick.
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Right. So having to disengage from everything but a sound has to be very fulfilling for them.
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I mean, I think about it now. I'm like, I would like to just listen to a sound
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and have that calming moment where nothing else is there.
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There's not a speed of anything. It's like, yeah, you can get into that.
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It's almost like it can help you connect to inner silence, even though you're listening to sounds.
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Because it brings things to stillness and at
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some point when already it's like
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it doesn't have to be a lot of sound either so i
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notice sometimes i create a
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lot of gaps between the sounds with adolescents especially
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i use colors like so
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a little bit of visuals okay but imagery really helps
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as well so again to help them engage even
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more to get into that relaxed state it's
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like once they are receptive once they
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engage it's like i really see a profound shift and
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i can really tell just in the group because i think that it's the
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group it's a co-regulation too so it's
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like when they're all kind of almost trying to distract each other it's like
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once everyone is starting to it's like affects the whole group and that's why
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doing this type of group experiences can be really effective because it's a
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nice way to introduce them to like,
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meditation, mindfulness, just being in the present moment.
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And I really enjoy doing that. I just, I feel like it's so important in those times.
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Could you imagine if the school started the day with the sound bath?
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How I wonder if they, I'm thinking about it right now.
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I'm like, maybe I'm going to just start doing this in the morning.
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I have a singing bowl and at night I play it for them when I'm not yelling at them to get into bed.
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But that would be pretty exceptional if the
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kids started their day with that moment
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of sound where they could just chill out because
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they have a lot to do you know with their brain center like it's can be so kind
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of like what we do i mean in the morning i take my five minutes to really ground
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and start the day and the days i don't i'm feeling a little more frantic than
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normal but that's just part of the ritual, you know, starting the day. Yeah.
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And so, yeah, I, I feel like these are some of really powerful rituals and sound
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again, sometimes like quiet meditation or even breath work can be hard with kids.
26:24
And so this is like, you know, they can kind of make it more fun,
26:28
I guess, and a little lighthearted.
26:30
Yeah. I might bring this up to our principal and be like, we should really start doing this.
26:34
That'd be great. Okay. So let's talk about women in their We're 30s,
26:38
40s, 50s, all of our listeners right now.
26:41
We're all going through all these different phases of our life where we're like
26:44
not in perimenopause. We're in perimenopause.
26:46
We're in menopause. There's just we don't know unless we get the test done and
26:50
everything's kind of frazzled, right? We're all kind of in this moment.
26:54
So what are you seeing most in your practice right now with women in their 30s, 40s, 50s?
27:00
And has it changed over the time that you've started to where you're at now with what the needs are?
27:07
I think there's just more and more awareness of the whole reproductive cycle.
27:14
It's not just the body and the mind. Again, I think the mind,
27:18
body, and spiritual connection.
27:20
Because each phase, there can be a theme or meaning to it.
27:27
It's almost like helping understand that connection, the body-mind connection, can really help.
27:35
Almost like transition into the phase because i think the transition points
27:40
are hard and they mentioned here menopause and menopause and sometimes it's
27:44
blur it's blurry it's confusing yes the labs will help understand the stress
27:51
levels like what's going on children um.
27:55
Relationships professional pressure all
28:00
of this play a role and i feel like we're just starting to
28:03
talk about it i mean midlife crisis it's been
28:06
something that is coming up and some of
28:09
the ancient like again bringing up the mayan tradition
28:12
talk about women in each phase of life how
28:16
empowering it is when a woman enters that
28:19
phase like entering into menopause it can
28:22
be actually it can be one of the most satisfying enjoyable
28:27
face so it's like i think understanding helping women understand
28:31
those changes and also like loving
28:34
themselves through that because there is a way of
28:37
you know just a conditioning or
28:40
culture about not looking the
28:43
same age maybe you know trying to be and
28:46
it's it's about some of it is about just coming into the power and also like
28:53
there is it's like a transition point and it's leading into something new so
28:59
i feel like helping the connection between the body mind and this and also like spirituality.
29:05
Comes in too because there is a wisdom that comes through the experiences of
29:10
life so helping women connect to that i feel like the story unraveling the story
29:16
or co-creating or creating a new story I use that a lot,
29:21
and that's a concept for narrative medicine.
29:24
I feel like that can be really, because it gives meaning, and,
29:28
you know, the meaning can change. It doesn't have to be a static meaning,
29:32
but I feel like it can be really empowering to connect to people.
29:38
That inner feminine energy that is like, I don't know, going through like another growth spurt.
29:45
Is this perspective of looking at it? I love all of this so very much.
29:49
So I don't see it as a midlife crisis anymore. I think of it as a midlife renaissance.
29:54
Oh, I love that. Who do we get to become now? Like we've gone through all this
29:58
other stuff. Some of it great, some of it not so great.
30:01
And how are we going to come out on the other side even better.
30:04
Because it's really easy, I think, to sit and look and be like, I'm 47.
30:10
What am I going to do? Or to be like, no, I'm freaking 47. I've done all this shit.
30:16
Now what am I going to do? And I love that idea of your narrative medicine.
30:22
Is that part of it where you're, it's like to change the narrative.
30:26
You know, all the celebrities are like, you want to be in front of the narrative.
30:28
You want to make the narrative. You don't want someone else to.
30:31
Why can't we create our own so let's
30:34
talk about narrative medicine a little bit but what is it
30:37
and why does the story why does
30:40
someone's story matter so much to it in
30:42
that healing process yeah the
30:46
story is such a it's like it's a
30:49
key and the story unfolds also
30:52
and that's why i was saying that it's not a static story like
30:55
a lot of times we talk about how
30:58
story unfolds or unravels or
31:01
like there's an ending to something and then there's beginning
31:04
to something so it's it's a beautiful process a lot of times as you know i'm
31:10
just witnessing and holding space for the story because a lot of times it's
31:14
like trauma and whatever it has been that we're holding space for but there's
31:19
also that point when you can.
31:22
Help shift the story and that's
31:25
just again in a natural way we're not trying to make it
31:28
into something just showing that there
31:31
is a path that unfolds as you slowly
31:35
kind of almost release the old story
31:38
that's the way to look at it and embody a new
31:41
story but it's a very unique experience for
31:45
each person and it's also about connecting to
31:49
self it's about knowing self a
31:52
lot of times it's like what is the story
31:55
because maybe the identifying with the story is
31:59
part of the problem you know so helping it's important to witness but then identify
32:04
and like bring awareness to it and in trauma we talk about the post-traumatic
32:09
growth when you go through the trauma cycle you working through each layers of trauma,
32:15
there's also something that happens after. Hmm.
32:21
And that's, yeah, like literally like brain, there's like a post-traumatic growth.
32:26
You're able to create new pathways.
32:29
I mean, neuroscience is showing how brains, you know, there's neuroplasticity.
32:34
We're able to regenerate, rejuvenate.
32:38
We can shift the perspective. so there is
32:41
possibility i think narrative medicine offers that but
32:45
it's not just about fixing it's about
32:48
letting it unfold and
32:51
kind of holding space for that and then bearing witness that's the word we use
32:56
like really witnessing it but sometimes witnessing is as hard and self witnessing
33:01
it too like really coming to terms with the story i feel like that sometimes
33:06
happens in the transitions a lot.
33:08
And also with the story, you're seeing it the way that you went through it,
33:13
right? I experienced something.
33:15
And the way I experienced it in that moment is different from how I'm seeing
33:20
it now, from how I've grown from one moment to the next.
33:24
Exactly. So even looking back at it being like, all right, I see all of that
33:27
that happened and the mistakes I made and what I could have done differently.
33:32
And now coming on the other side of it, what have I learned?
33:35
How am I growing from it I feel like that's part of this narrative
33:38
yeah absolutely and that we say that
33:41
perception shifts like through reflection like
33:44
you reflected upon and then you're able to see it and it's almost feels like
33:49
oh it went from this point to this point because of the story so you know that
33:55
self-compassion gratitude is a really important practices and it does come up
34:01
when we are thinking of it as a storytelling and witnessing,
34:05
like really holding space for self
34:07
and then each other, because it's the stories that we witness as well.
34:12
Yeah. Around us. So for women today, there's so much, right?
34:18
For many of us, we have children.
34:20
For many of us, we're working. We have spouses.
34:24
We're taking all of this on. There's a lot of stress. There's a lot of moving pieces.
34:30
What are a couple of things that we can do today just ourselves to bring a little
34:37
more homeostasis and calm energy throughout our day as we're going through?
34:43
I really like the idea of affirmations, which kind of does come from storytelling a little bit.
34:49
But also it's like we're trying to rewire or regulate ourselves.
34:55
So I do think affirmations are really powerful. A lot of times just simple ones,
35:00
like sometimes it comes down to just, I love myself, I am safe.
35:05
Like just saying that and a lot of patients would say, oh, it's hard for me
35:09
to, it doesn't feel real. It's just like faking it.
35:11
But that's how the affirmations work.
35:14
And when you're using your own voice to say it, or even looking in the mirror
35:18
and saying it, that can be slightly intimidating, but it's very empowering.
35:23
Yeah. I think a lot of women too may feel, even if they're by themselves,
35:27
they're like, I'm embarrassed to be like talking to myself in the mirror here.
35:30
But it's a moment, right? And if you keep doing it over and over and over again.
35:34
It's almost like it becomes more real.
35:36
And that's, again, how nervous system works. It's like there's a conditioning
35:41
that happens, whether it's from just what we see in the family,
35:45
like family systems or culturally or just as a society.
35:50
And then there's when we're trying to work through, create new pathways,
35:54
we're breaking some of those default patterns. And it's not easy. It's a daily practice.
35:59
Because one day the affirmations may seem easier and the other day they won't.
36:04
But that's part of doing them over and over.
36:07
Some people like putting them on their board. Sometimes it's nice to do it first
36:11
thing in the morning or write it down and look at it before you go to bed.
36:16
So I really like that. I sometimes incorporate with tapping,
36:19
which helps regulate the nervous system and trauma.
36:21
So saying that affirmation while tapping, it's pretty effective. Oh, interesting.
36:27
Okay. Yeah. So you're saying you're safe, you love yourself,
36:32
you're grounded, you're healing, and you tap different areas of your body.
36:38
There's so many different methods of tapping.
36:40
And that's part of something that I teach to my patients as well and do in the
36:44
groups as well. What do you think, what is that connection with the,
36:47
I've definitely heard of it before.
36:48
And sometimes when I'm about to speak and my heart's racing out of my chest,
36:52
even though I'm prepared, talk to a room of 1500 people and I have a problem.
36:57
But if I have to go up and speak about something that's important,
37:00
I'm a nervous wreck. So I've started to tap.
37:03
I don't even know why I'm doing it. I've not been taught it.
37:05
But I was like, maybe we should try this. And my heart rate comes down immediately. It's pretty insane.
37:10
What is that connection from? Why does it do that? What is the tapping doing?
37:15
That's instant body mind connection. One of the ways of tapping,
37:19
which I can talk about, and the kids love it.
37:22
I've heard like people do it with their pads. It's butterfly tapping.
37:25
You're just tapping on your heart.
37:27
Like your butterfly hands. yeah exactly
37:31
sometimes my patients said oh they're visualizing butterfly
37:34
on their heart so i go sometimes in the imagery too which
37:37
is again it's what is it doing is
37:39
shifting you out of that state so when
37:42
you just let's say you didn't tap and you placed your
37:45
hands on your heart that itself is a lot because it's
37:49
therapeutic touch and your body starts to feel oh
37:52
we're safe there's nothing that it's more
37:54
about the fear or anticipation of going
37:58
in the public or whatever that may be the association may
38:01
be so we're again we're like helping we're
38:04
training the brain the vagus nerve is stimulated
38:08
to this very specific especially centralized tapping
38:12
so tapping on your heart you can tap underneath your
38:15
rib cage directly on your diaphragm tap
38:18
just one up one down so so
38:21
many ways of tap and then there's an eft tapping which is
38:24
a hand tapping so there's a lot of research on
38:27
that too but yeah it's like you're pretty much like communicating with your
38:31
cells and then you're creating that feedback loop between the cells between
38:36
your body and your mind your brain and then the brain sends signal back so it's
38:41
really there's a lot more understanding and it's becoming more mainstream.
38:46
Especially for trauma is specifically really, really important.
38:51
Do you find that as the years have gone by and you've been practicing, that you.
38:56
There are more cases of anxiety or panic or something to that effect?
39:00
Or do you think we're just becoming more aware of our state in that moment, right?
39:07
Because when I was a kid, if you were anxious, it was like, oh,
39:10
you're fine. You're just nervous. You'll be fine.
39:13
And now we have all these tools that we can use when we're anxious or panicked
39:18
or nervous or whatever the case may be.
39:20
It's not written off as much as it used to be.
39:23
So you think we're all kind of becoming more in tune with it
39:27
i think there is more definitely more in tune the environment
39:30
has shifted obviously there is more fast space more
39:33
stimulation so there may be more triggers as
39:36
well so i think it's a combination of both
39:39
there's just a more heightened state
39:43
and just overall the stability
39:47
is like perceived there's no perceived
39:50
stability at times whether it's the environment or
39:53
the situations so i think that and
39:57
it's like early on for children maybe than it
39:59
used to i mean there were different issues before but i
40:02
think something is definitely and covid just
40:06
affected the whole oh my gosh social isolation that is a whole conversation
40:12
yeah that is a whole conversation about the kid the state of minds of children
40:17
and post-covid like we can see we see it in the way they talk to each other,
40:24
the way that they interact, the way that they're not interacting the way they used to.
40:29
We can have a whole episode on that. Really. I agree.
40:35
It's something that a lot of us, like me and my friends, we talk about all the
40:38
time about how different it is for them and how do we get them back to normalcy and,
40:45
And a place where they're communicating with each other in different ways and
40:49
not just through a phone or a device. Which is digital.
40:54
Right. Because that was like the way of doing it. And that feels more safe.
40:58
That's more accessible. And now it's like how the brain is wired.
41:01
But there is something to connection with a person one-on-one. Yes. In person.
41:06
Yeah. So we actually, this is very interesting. We have no phones at the table.
41:11
That's like my one rule. You sit down to eat.
41:13
I don't want to see him. Like, I will throw it out the door if I have to.
41:16
And we were up in Vermont over the weekend. And my oldest son brought one of his best friends.
41:22
And we sat and had dinner. And then we all started talking.
41:27
And the two of them were... This was great, deep conversation.
41:31
This wasn't just like, you know, six, seven, blah, blah, blah,
41:35
like with them being teenagers.
41:37
This was like, I was... For an hour, we sat at the dinner table having a discussion
41:42
with 13-year-olds that...
41:44
I just sat back for a moment and was like, this is pretty awesome.
41:47
This is how we should be all the time.
41:50
Now, Tommy, this happened once. I can't say that this is happening all the time,
41:54
but it gave me a little bit of hope that if they're able to sit with two adults
41:59
and have conversations, it could happen more, right? Absolutely.
42:04
Yeah, creating that. I mean, the environment was created and conducive for them.
42:10
It's almost like maybe they didn't have a lot of other distractions, you know.
42:15
Yep. They didn't. Their phones are taken away and they weren't allowed to do anything. That's it.
42:21
That's really. That's the ticket. Yeah. That really, it helps because you have
42:25
to engage with the person one-on-one.
42:28
Yeah. And the eye contact, that is something that like, again,
42:33
this is a whole other episode that we could talk about these kids and what we can do to help them.
42:37
So what do you think is, how much of healing do you think is actually sitting
42:44
still and not doing anything versus doing more?
42:49
I think a lot of healing can be sometimes from sitting still.
42:53
The issue is that sometimes it's really hard to be still. And when you're still,
42:57
a lot of stuff comes up. So, yeah.
43:00
Stillness, it's almost like it's not as accessible. And even for adults, it's not as accessible.
43:08
But creating space for that, whether it's a ritual,
43:13
whether it's a nature walk, it doesn't have to be just seated,
43:16
but, you know, just sitting and it's like arriving, you're arrived in your body,
43:23
you're okay in this present moment.
43:25
But a lot of times our mind is going at a pace, And there's always something
43:30
that is, whether it's happening or we're thinking about, because that's natural activity for our mind.
43:35
But when we are still, it gets even more because you're now witnessing it more.
43:42
So, and I do think like mindfulness, meditation practices, or even ritual,
43:47
like sipping your tea or listening to music or sound.
43:52
There's so many ways or just going on a nature walk
43:55
but just being engaged in nature so
43:59
i think i think it is very healing but it's sometimes hard to access so how
44:04
to make it accessible or how to help it facilitate is something that i definitely
44:09
incorporate in my practice how to create that space and then the stillness will
44:15
be comfortable but it does start with discomfort word.
44:19
It's just trouble. Yes, it does. Having been there, it's uncomfortable sometimes.
44:25
Going back to the garden that I have attempted to create, I was out there for
44:30
like, I don't know, 10, 15 minutes and just putting my hands in the dirt.
44:34
I wasn't wearing gloves, which sorry to my nails, but there was something I
44:39
don't remember thinking anything while I was doing it.
44:42
And I just thought, I was like, this is a form of stillness and meditation is
44:48
literally just putting hands in dirt.
44:51
I have friends who are gardeners and they love it. They can be out there for
44:53
hours creating beautiful things, like vegetables that I get to enjoy.
44:57
But even just going into the dirt, into the ground, literally,
45:01
it was a very peaceful moment.
45:03
It's like you instantly ground Earth's energy, Earth's frequency.
45:08
You're putting barefoot on the
45:11
earth or just touching the tree or touching the
45:14
grass or the earth that's why nature just nature-based
45:19
healing I feel like it's very accessible and
45:23
for kids for teens but also for adults
45:26
just spending that type of time
45:29
in nature or creating that relationship with nature
45:32
I mean forest bathing is a thing we actually led a
45:34
group in Darien once just like forest bathing
45:38
like just connecting with trees under the
45:40
moonlight oh that's very cool or on the
45:43
ocean i mean on the beach so you're
45:47
just like and then you're doing it together so there's a collective aspect of
45:52
it like we're talking about co-regulation because you can really feel that when
45:57
you're not around your screens and just out in nature that's like instant serotonin
46:05
dopamine me and all of that.
46:07
So it's innate for us to be in nature.
46:10
So I think just putting your grounding, your earthing.
46:14
Yeah. I loved when I was a kid walking around with bare feet.
46:17
I'd go out there and I'd step in the mud and the grass and have my feet in it.
46:21
I need to bring that back a little bit. Just walk around out there with my feet touching the ground.
46:27
No socks, just the skin to the earth.
46:30
It's so powerful. It really is. The electromagnetic energy of the earth is so powerful.
46:36
Oh, I love it. This has been just a fantastic conversation.
46:40
I feel like we have to have you come back on so we can just stick to one topic
46:44
for the entire hour because there's so much to get through.
46:47
Thank you for this. This has been really wonderful.
46:50
Thank you so much for inviting me on. I loved having you.
46:53
And next season, I want to bring you back and we'll have another conversation
46:57
about one topic that we can really deep dive into.
47:01
Yeah, that would be wonderful. I would love that. Okay, good.
47:04
Oh, well, thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you so much.
47:06
Have a wonderful evening.
47:08
Thank you so much for joining me today on She's Smart. New episodes drop every other Thursday.
47:14
Don't forget to subscribe, like, and share. Stay cozy.