Latest / NDV Podcast: Neurodiverse Voices Connect / Finding Her Voice: Leandra on Parenting, Identity, and Strength

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Finding Her Voice: Leandra on Parenting, Identity, and Strength · NDV Podcast: Neurodiverse Voices Connect

0:17
Welcome to season 5 of the Neuro Diverse Voices Podcast, the
0:22
podcast that gives a voice to the neuro divergent community.
0:27
My name is Andrea Costa and I am your host.
0:32
I am also the mom to a beautiful 9 year old autistic daughter and
0:36
she is my world. At the age of 42, I was recently
0:41
diagnosed with ADHD and through my lived experience I've
0:45
developed a deep passion for all things neuro diversity.
0:51
My daughter gave me purpose. My neurodivergence keeps the
0:55
passion alive. By sharing my journey, I hope to
0:59
help others feeling seen, understood, and less alone.
1:04
Through conversations with guests from a wide range of
1:08
backgrounds and perspectives, my aim is to challenge assumptions,
1:12
spark curiosity and enlighten all kinds of minds.
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This is and brings another incredible line up of guests.
1:21
From comedians and writers to alternative provision leads,
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therapists, parent advocates and researchers from the University
1:29
of Oxford, every guest has an inspiring journey and a powerful
1:33
story to share. This is a space for honesty,
1:36
connection and celebration where difference is not just accepted
1:41
but valued. Hi everyone, welcome to another
2:05
episode of season 5 of the Neuro Diverse Voices podcast.
2:10
I'm quite emotional today because I'm, you know, I always
2:15
say this, every single guest of mine is special.
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But this one is even more because she's also a friend.
2:23
She has lived the experience of ADHD and she's a parent of three
2:29
neural divergent children. But on the top of all of that,
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she's also the founder of Centipede and a very cherished
2:38
member of the neural divergent community here in Oxfordshire.
2:42
Welcome to the newer Diverse Voices podcast.
2:45
Once again Leandra thank. You well what?
2:48
What introduction? Thank you so much.
2:50
Thank you for inviting me back again.
2:53
It's great to have you back. I'm very excited to share the
2:57
updates. You know, it's been I think 2
2:59
years now or almost two years since I, yeah, since I
3:03
interviewed you. You were one of my first guests.
3:07
Yeah, lots has happened. And yeah, exactly the same time.
3:10
Time has flown by, so yeah. Yeah, it's a, it's a mixed
3:15
feeling, isn't it? It feels like it was yesterday,
3:17
but it feels like ages ago too. Yeah.
3:21
So yeah, I'm very happy to have you here and to and to have you
3:26
back. OK.
3:27
So to give some context to, to the audience and those of you
3:33
who, who don't know you, although I'm pretty sure people
3:37
do, because we collaborate a lot and we, you know, through each
3:41
other's social media, we do a lot of things together.
3:44
But can we start with you telling us a bit more about
3:48
yourself and, and your family? So you're a mum of three nearby
3:51
virgin boys. So you're a, you're a warrior.
3:55
And what does see? Definitely.
4:01
So what does neurodiversity mean to you personally?
4:05
Well, yeah, so family of three boys and my husband as well and
4:12
dogs are very chaotic here. But like I said, chaotic and
4:18
full of neuro spicy people. So to me, it really means that
4:24
we all think differently, but we're all unique and we just
4:28
embrace each other and try and learn much as much about each
4:32
other. But whatever that might be,
4:34
triggers, glimmers and yeah, just kind of building our
4:41
knowledge amongst ourselves and the greater community.
4:45
Yeah, being curious about each other, that's very important.
4:48
And that's definitely the the way to go.
4:50
And the, yeah, the chaos is kind of part of it, isn't it?
4:54
Yeah, there's no boring day here.
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Yeah. There's a very good example as
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one of my boys hasn't gone into school and as you know prior to
5:03
this, we've been trying to attempt him to go in but no
5:08
success yet. So do you know, watch out for
5:11
maybe a sneak peek of someone? We can talk about Minecraft with
5:19
him. Yeah, exactly.
5:20
Yeah. OK, so I mentioned that you've
5:25
been a guest on the very first season of the Neo Diverse Voices
5:29
podcast and and we also said that a lot has happened since
5:33
then. So can you tell us a bit more
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about how the journey began and looking back, were there any
5:40
early signs or moments that stood out for you?
5:45
Well, for us, the journey officially started back in the
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end of 20/20/19 and beginning of 2020 when Josh received his
5:54
diagnosis of autism and ADHD. And then we had lockdown and it
6:00
was just chaotic and, and we, we were in a bit of a bad place.
6:05
And so the boys were able to actually attend school during
6:09
lockdown, thankfully. But that still didn't help with
6:12
the pressures of, you know, having to do school drop offs
6:16
and all that kind of thing. So that affected my mental
6:20
health anyway. And yeah, but looking back, I
6:26
would say my mum noticed firstly with Joshua when he was quite
6:31
young, but I dismissed it as you do.
6:35
You just kind of thought what happened, I know what you mean,
6:37
that kind of thing. And then what about four years
6:40
old when the twins came along? I would say that was the moment
6:45
Josh switched for for me. Like I could tell that this was
6:48
a different person here almost. And that's when I started really
6:55
thinking about what my mum had said.
6:57
And that was in the back of my head.
6:59
And so questioning professionals in these settings, but of
7:03
course, I was getting that the usual, no, he's just a boy or,
7:06
you know, we can't tell. It's still, he's still kind
7:08
about his learning move. And you know, so of course you
7:14
doubt yourself, but it's always there in the back of your mind.
7:16
So I was kind of monitoring things and just kind of throwing
7:21
things out there from time to time until someone else noticed
7:25
at school. And that's when we're like both
7:30
here we are. But that took until he was about
7:33
a Year 2 for that to officially kind of come out where everyone
7:38
could see what I was seeing. Yeah.
7:41
And when, when the the twins came and started growing up.
7:46
So you you mentioned there was the the turning points one of
7:50
the the important moments when you realised that Joshua would
7:56
be neuro divergent. What was?
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What did you notice on on them as well?
8:02
Well, from the moment they were born, if I'm honest, and we
8:05
could tell how busy they were and we didn't know if that was
8:09
just because that they were multiples and they were two of
8:12
them that just felt intense. But we had the constant sort of
8:16
busyness and the fidgeting and the sensitivities that so not
8:20
wanting to settle or just everything just seemed to be
8:26
like, wow. So from the get go, I would say
8:29
I was watching them bit like a hawk.
8:33
And by the time they reached nursery, I was pretty convinced.
8:37
And so was Christian, if I'm honest.
8:39
And nursery picked up pretty quickly.
8:42
And when I got the call from nursery, I was like, it's not a
8:45
surprise. And they were like, oh, thank
8:47
goodness. You know, that makes the call a
8:48
little bit easier. But it was nice that they
8:52
acknowledged it so early on. Yeah, and you mentioned that,
8:57
you know, when you started suspecting about Josh's or your,
9:02
when your mum kind of gave you the the hint that, you know, not
9:07
only you, but other people will tell you, will tell you that,
9:11
you know, it's just, you know, it's just a boy.
9:14
You know it's just a child. What were the misconceptions and
9:17
assumptions that that you had about near divergent before
9:23
before becoming a parent? Well, we had experience of
9:28
autism in the family and other sort of mental health issues
9:34
amongst other family members, but it wasn't really something I
9:39
wasn't aware of properly, you know what I mean?
9:42
Even though it was there, it wasn't really.
9:45
Yeah, I don't know. It almost like it's suddenly
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only existed as soon as he hit my family and more closely.
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And so I didn't know a lot about it.
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And at first, when my mum did say about Josh, I was thinking,
9:59
oh, well, maybe she's just seeing my nephew and Josh.
10:03
And now she's just thinking everybody's autistic, you know,
10:06
that I did. I was just like, oh, you know,
10:10
maybe I'm reading too much into it.
10:13
But then I, I did start taking notice and then I was like,
10:17
actually, she's right. And she's not just trying to
10:23
find it. It's, it's there.
10:25
But then the hard part was for me to convince everyone else,
10:30
you know, that what my mum and I were seeing actually was there
10:33
and we were not kind of just trying to look for it.
10:38
And even now, I mean, we're how many years in now?
10:42
7, yeah. Seven years in, it's still quite
10:46
hard to evidence it, especially with Josh with his profile.
10:52
I would say the twins are quite elaborate, you know, very
10:54
energetic, boisterous, can be quite, you know, aggressive at
10:57
times. So they've got that physical
10:59
sort of evidence really that people can see, whereas Josh is
11:04
more sort of on the anxiety side, doesn't like people that
11:11
don't follow the rules and, and things like that.
11:13
So they just see a quiet boy who really is so good and, you know,
11:20
academically he's bright and really what's the problem?
11:24
But at home, we, we struggle with the dynamics going out.
11:30
We struggle eating, we struggle, you know, there's so much more
11:33
to it. But how do I, how do I show
11:37
people what it's really like and what he's struggling with?
11:43
And I think it. Shouldn't be so hard to have to
11:45
to prove something. And, and if you think about it,
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it's one of the things that frustrates me a lot.
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And I'm pretty sure it's the same with you.
11:52
You know, no parents I think would want to have, you know, a
12:00
child with with needs, right So. Yeah, like why would I make this
12:04
up And and it, you know, why would I want to make my life
12:08
extra hard by fighting for things and trying to prove
12:12
things? But it's there.
12:14
All I'm asking for really is help.
12:17
And I just don't understand why people are so anti listening to
12:21
parents. You know, we, we have concerns.
12:25
We we coming out of our comfort zone and approaching asking for
12:29
help. I mean, that's something that me
12:31
as a person, I my pride, you know, with, you know, when it's
12:36
financed, whatever it is, I don't like to ask for help.
12:40
So when I'm asking, I'm already desperate, you know, So don't,
12:44
don't make me sound crazy or make me doubt myself because I
12:48
already have those issues myself.
12:50
You know, I, I lack confidence and I, I do criticize myself a
12:56
lot. And I think about these things
12:59
over and over again so many times.
13:03
You know, surely by the time I get to you, I've kind of made
13:06
the decision that, you know, what I believe is correct.
13:10
So yeah, I think all I'm asking for is for someone to listen and
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just give us what we need to thrive and say yeah.
13:20
Sorry. That's that we've got a little
13:21
bit intense there. No, no, no, that's well, that's
13:26
the reality of of many parents, isn't it?
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And it's very sad to see. But yeah, hopefully things will
13:35
will change soon. And so, you know, raising a new
13:40
one, you're a divergent child is challenging.
13:43
I do have that experience and it can be very intense.
13:48
So, you know, you, you kind of shared a little bit of of this
13:52
already, but how has it been like navigating the journey with
13:56
with three? Relentless is the word I use
14:01
quite a lot, and not because of the boys necessarily.
14:07
Yes, some days you just think, Oh my goodness, like I can't do
14:11
this. But I think it's the fight with
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everyone else and everything else that makes you so
14:18
exhausted. It takes so long that you get to
14:23
the point where things escalate and they probably wouldn't have
14:28
got as bad if you just nipped it in the bud early on.
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So we have reached crisis at points recently and was last
14:36
year actually, and I've had to give up my job for the second
14:42
time. So I've gone from full time to
14:45
part time to now nothing because I now have Joshua at home with
14:50
school avoidance and I had the twins close to exclusion on a
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part time table attending very little alternate provision.
15:02
And now in a specialist, thank goodness, which I cannot tell
15:06
you how thankful I am that they finally saw what we needed.
15:12
And that makes me feel so good to see that what I've been
15:17
asking for was right all along. And we're now starting to see
15:22
the benefits, admittedly, obviously with Joshua still at
15:26
home, we are seeing still some negatives and it is still
15:31
impacting the boys. Like I said, Jane is here today
15:34
and I think some of it can be because Joshua's at home,
15:38
therefore they know we're at home, but it's in such a, you
15:45
know, much better place than we were this time last year.
15:49
And all I'm asking for is the same for Joshua.
15:53
But like, as I keep saying, Joshua is so hard to sort of
15:57
evidence he's, he's actually being punished for wanting an
16:04
education and being good and, and academically able.
16:08
And it's almost all of those things are going against him,
16:12
when in fact all he's asking for is a small environment where he
16:16
can regulate himself. I don't think it's asking for a
16:20
lot. So that's why I'm fighting for
16:23
it, because I think they are just unfortunately looking at a
16:29
piece of paper and not really getting to know my son.
16:33
So that's often the case, isn't it?
16:36
I think that's, I understand that it would be very difficult
16:40
to, you know, to have consultations and interviews
16:42
with, with every single family and with every single child.
16:46
But yeah, that that would probably show them more than
16:54
than a piece of paper for sure. Yeah, even if like, the SN
16:59
officers got to meet your child just once so they actually knew
17:02
who you were talking about. I mean, I don't think Joshua SN
17:05
officer knows who he is. If you walked past her in the
17:11
corridor somewhere, she wouldn't know who he was.
17:15
So how can she judge down a piece of paper?
17:19
So yeah, but I'm sure that's everybody has the same issues
17:23
and I just don't understand why it's not something that's
17:26
improved and considered. But I guess it all goes down to
17:31
resources and customs as as everything so.
17:35
Yeah, for me it's similar, even though, you know, luckily Melody
17:40
is happy to go to school because she has the support that that
17:45
she needs there. However, it's not the right
17:48
place for her. But because she's she goes
17:50
happily to school, you know, it's fine.
17:55
She can wait. And it's been, I think we are
17:57
going on to the third year now of waiting.
18:03
But yeah, so I, I do resonates a bit, even though different, you
18:09
know, I think, yeah. Everybody's journey is different
18:11
out of school, they're different, but they're all
18:13
valid. That that's the point.
18:14
I I think a lot of us put ourselves down and think, oh,
18:17
there's always someone worse, which yes, there is.
18:20
But you living your journey and it's all valid.
18:25
So what you're going through is what you're going through.
18:28
So yeah, never kind of put your situation underneath anyone
18:32
else's. We we're all going through the
18:33
same kind of thing, so. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
18:38
And what do you wish professionals or systems
18:41
understood better about families like yours?
18:43
So we just you just shared one example that you know we should
18:48
meet the child as opposed to looking at a piece of paper,
18:51
but. Exactly.
18:52
But I, I think the, the main thing is what we alluded to
18:55
earlier really is we don't want to complicate things.
18:59
We're, we're just asking for what we feel our children need
19:04
so to be taken more seriously and for these kind of situations
19:10
to be considered. So the resources are there so
19:12
we're not having to fight for, I don't understand why we need to
19:15
fight for it. If education is something we are
19:18
all entitled to and then we're being offered places that aren't
19:23
suitable, we're just going to be going around in circles, which
19:26
is basically what I'm doing with Joshua, unfortunately.
19:29
You know, we've been to tribunal, we've been to
19:31
mainstream, even though I said specialist was appropriate.
19:36
We're now out of school. We've now got agreement on
19:39
specialist, but now we're not agreeing on the settings.
19:41
So I feel like saying I told you so, you know, it sounds the
19:46
problem, but I really do feel like just saying I told you so
19:49
I've proved it. Like why are you still not
19:52
listening? So that's, that's where my
19:55
frustration lies is, yeah. Just listen to us parents.
19:59
We've got the insight knowledge, we've got the lived experience.
20:02
We're telling you what they need.
20:05
We just need you to be able to place them there.
20:08
That's that is it. And then everything else will go
20:11
away, hopefully. In the meantime, it's creating a
20:15
crisis. Everyone else's mental health is
20:17
being affected, unable to work. Claiming benefit, you know, it
20:24
just spirals. So it's just mind boggling how
20:28
it's not been resolved yet, but here we are.
20:33
Yeah, after many, many years, because this is.
20:37
Yeah, it's not. Our journey started, you know,
20:40
seven years ago or but we know that this has been going on for
20:45
a lot longer. Speaking with parents, with all
20:47
the children. Exactly so.
20:50
And looking, Yeah, through some of the courses that I've kind of
20:55
put myself on and tried to, you know, improve my knowledge and
20:58
stuff. I've looked through Sen history,
21:02
especially in the education side.
21:05
And what I've noticed is that we've just going through endless
21:07
cycles. So we're just repeating history.
21:10
So we're starting off with being separated and having specialist
21:14
for one sort of need. And then it's building on that
21:18
and then it's institutionalized and then it's trying to bring
21:21
everybody back together. And then we separating and we
21:24
just keep seeming to go around the loops.
21:26
And I do wonder when we'll have a new idea or or when maybe a
21:34
neurodivergent gets in charge and can actually think outside
21:38
the box and get it into motion because yeah, we're just
21:42
repeating history. Essentially, we're going round
21:45
and round. And not making any progress,
21:48
which which is very sad, but yeah.
21:52
OK. So in the middle of all of
21:54
these, all the fights, all the challenges, you know, I'm, I'm,
21:58
I'm sure, and I know this for a fact with us being friends, that
22:01
you, you still appreciate the journey, but you still found the
22:06
strength and to create Centipede.
22:10
Yeah, which is something I'm always in awe of you so and it
22:17
has become a very important space for sharing lived
22:19
experience. So I'm guessing that, you know,
22:23
your own lived experience has inspired you for for this for
22:28
you to create Centipede. But how has sharing your story
22:34
publicly impacted you and you know, both positively and also
22:39
in more challenging ways? Well, for me, yes.
22:43
So it started off with my lived experience and feeling that
22:46
overwhelm and isolation. And I decided, you know, let's
22:50
let's share the knowledge, you know, why not?
22:53
And that kind of where I seem to be grew from.
22:55
So essentially it's a, a page where I share our stories, but
22:59
also everyone else's sort of stories and knowledge and events
23:03
and, you know, whatever's out there because let's let's be
23:07
fair, it's a minefield. So having a place where you can
23:10
just go to and think, OK, yeah, that's a good idea.
23:13
I'll, I'll try that out. So yeah, essentially that's what
23:16
I am. I'm like a resource base, but I
23:20
find it really rewarding. And I, I don't know, it's it's
23:25
almost changed me. But for the good it's, it's
23:30
created this other version of the Andra.
23:32
Like who is the Andra? Well, the Andra used to be a
23:36
little shy girl, someone who's always been very self aware and
23:42
scared to try things and, you know, change and and you get
23:46
just kind of there but not there.
23:49
So had friendship groups, but I was never the main character or
23:53
I was never sort of the one going out.
23:56
I was always in the background. And here I am sort of in my 40s
24:04
now talking, you know, in front of people and professionals and
24:10
kind of putting my thoughts out there and being raw, really,
24:14
and, and hoping that people understand my perspective.
24:19
Thankfully, so far it's been a positive sort of understanding.
24:25
I'm sure I'm going to come across people that don't have
24:27
the same thoughts, and that's OK.
24:30
But I think where I need to learn to develop is that other
24:35
strength of accepting criticism and not overthinking it because
24:42
I know it's going to happen and how I'm going to deal with that.
24:46
So I am anticipating some negativity.
24:50
And yeah, I just hope with my strength I can continue to do it
24:54
and not give up and just be. Yeah, just more confident in in
25:00
everything and and yeah. And live up to my names meaning.
25:03
So I shared a presentation with you, as you know, with the
25:08
Neurodiversity Celebration Day, and we had to share about
25:13
ourselves. And I thought it would be good
25:15
to tell everybody what my name meant.
25:17
And I looked up and it means lioness.
25:20
And yeah, I looking back, I was never a lioness.
25:25
But now I'm, I'm fighting, I'm getting that strength.
25:28
And, and I think it's thanks to my, my children and
25:32
unfortunately, the resilience I've had to build from the
25:36
process. So in a way, the negatives have
25:39
made a positive. I just hope that, you know, I
25:43
can continue with that strength. And my stubbornness obviously
25:47
helps. And I don't know if that's the
25:50
Italian blood in me or if that's the ADHD, but here we are.
25:54
Then hopefully we can continue. Might be both OK.
25:57
Yeah, what a mix. Yeah, what a mix.
26:01
So, yeah, yeah. But you should be absolutely
26:03
proud of yourself. And I think I can say this on
26:06
behalf of of the local community that we are very grateful to for
26:11
Centipede and and to have you because you are always there for
26:15
us when when we need you. So thank you.
26:18
Thank you. That's the other thing that I
26:20
do. Receive receiving praise, isn't
26:25
it? It's Yeah, but you should.
26:28
It's. Sometimes it's difficult to
26:30
believe in ourselves, isn't it? When, when people praise us.
26:34
But you, you should. You should for sure.
26:38
So you run coffee mornings. Why do you feel like peer
26:43
support spaces like these are important?
26:48
Personally, I think because firstly you don't know where to
26:53
start, you really don't. So the best place to start is in
26:58
a group where others are going through the same thing and
27:01
there's that real empathy and validation from everybody.
27:06
And you can sit there and offload and you know they get
27:10
it. And even if they don't know the
27:13
answers, they can sit there and join you in whatever state
27:19
you're in and, and kind of understand.
27:23
But hopefully there's someone in that group that has been through
27:27
it unfortunately, and learnt something along the way that can
27:32
be that tip that helps you to get through to where you need to
27:36
be. And of course there's
27:38
signposting and stuff. So you end up being able to
27:43
advocate eventually for yourself and your children.
27:46
But I think the best place to start is with others around you
27:49
and building a little community because it's a very lonely,
27:53
lonely place to be. And I'm still so thankful for my
27:58
little sin to be coffee mornings on a Wednesday.
28:02
The people that are there are genuinely people that have been
28:04
there from the beginning and I can contact them whenever.
28:08
We have a little WhatsApp group and we talk daily and it's about
28:13
everything and anything. Doesn't have to even be about
28:16
our children. You know, it can be other life
28:19
issues or even positives and, you know, not always negative
28:24
and and share just anything on there.
28:26
And it's just nice. It really is.
28:28
Especially when you're someone who's shy and never really had a
28:32
big circle of friends, It's nice to know that those people get
28:36
you and that actually are probably the most important
28:39
people in your life right now. So yeah, I think it's really.
28:44
Important. Yeah, Yeah.
28:47
And so in case the audience would like to join, so you run
28:52
the Centipede Coffee Mornings, but then you also run another
28:54
one in collaboration with the Oxford Hub.
28:56
Do you want to share where people can go?
28:59
Where they can find out future dates?
29:02
Yeah, sure. So the Kiddington one, that's
29:05
just myself and then my lovely group who joins me weekly on a
29:09
Wednesday, and that's at Stanley's Sweets and Treats in
29:12
Kidlington. And that's 9:30 to 11:30 term
29:16
time. So that tends to be more of a
29:20
relaxed sort of chat. You know, we just kind of go
29:22
with the flow of whatever sort of going on.
29:25
We kind of just evolved from there.
29:28
And then the one that I collaborate with, the Oxford Hub
29:31
is in Cowley at the Jungle, and that takes place every
29:35
fortnight. We are changing a bit how we
29:39
we're running it this year. Previously we used to have a
29:42
guest speaker every fortnight. However that can be quite
29:46
intense and it doesn't really give us a chance to speak as a
29:50
little community. So where we've built a nice
29:53
little group. Again, we felt that this year
29:56
we're going to have the first sort of session of a month as a
30:01
catch up and let's offload and and see what you guys want to
30:05
know about. Or is it just that you need a
30:07
hug, you know, that kind of thing.
30:09
And then the following session would be with the guest speaker.
30:12
And hopefully in previous sessions we'll find out from you
30:17
like what topics really need talking about.
30:22
So the idea is that we are getting to know the
30:24
professionals. We are starting to hear the
30:27
right information, you know, because the worst thing is to
30:30
have these groups but the wrong information to be spread around.
30:34
So the idea is that we're building our knowledge with the
30:36
right people, knowing what services are available and what
30:40
we can access. So yeah, generally the way to
30:44
find me is on Facebook. That's where I live.
30:48
It's my centre page, everything's on there.
30:51
I, I do share a lot, so scrolling can be a bit of a
30:54
nightmare. I am on other platforms, but I'm
30:58
only very new to it. I'm trying to sort of get with
31:01
it, but yeah, I'm not very sort of into technology.
31:06
So I would say, yeah, Facebook is the safest.
31:11
Yeah, well, for someone who is not very good with technology,
31:14
you do a very good job on Facebook.
31:18
But yeah, there's also the page on Instagram, and I think you've
31:21
just recently created a page on LinkedIn, if I'm.
31:25
Yeah, Yeah, I have. Yeah.
31:26
But like I said, it's very new, very basic.
31:29
I haven't actually done much with it.
31:31
It's just so that I'm there, but I'm not there yet.
31:35
So yeah, hopefully that's something that's.
31:37
OK, well, we can I'll give you a follow and what you developing.
31:42
Yeah, yeah, I'll, I'll link. I'll put all the all the links
31:46
in the episode description anyway for everyone to be able
31:50
to follow you. Yeah, watch this space.
31:54
OK. And in terms still speaking
31:56
about parents and and you know, advice and and reassurance for
32:01
parents or carers who are earlier in their journey and may
32:05
feel overwhelmed and isolated, what would you want them to
32:09
hear? But yeah, we're we're all doing
32:17
things differently and that's OK.
32:20
Listen to your gut. It's normally right and keep
32:25
going, stay strong, stay firm and I believe you will get there
32:30
as long as you believe in what you know is right for you and
32:35
your child. So just listen to you.
32:41
Yeah, that's really good advice. And what has been one small
32:47
thing that made a big difference for your family?
32:54
For us it was the changing the way we do things, so going
33:02
against the social norms and that is hard.
33:05
And I still find it hard. And as a family, we we do find
33:10
it hard, but we try to do things that work for us now.
33:15
And it's taken years of practice.
33:19
We've gone from trying to fit in with everything being
33:22
overwhelmed. We've tried doing everything
33:24
certain been overwhelmed. We've tried to do nothing.
33:29
But then we go the other extreme and we need, you know,
33:31
stimulation And, you know, so now it's kind of somewhere
33:34
simmering low demand. And that seems to work for the
33:39
majority of the time. Obviously it's not perfect.
33:41
And we do have to, you know, throw the odd thing in here and
33:46
there. But yeah, I, I think for us,
33:49
it's changing our mindset and just kind of going with what
33:52
works for us. Yeah, it's a bit of a trial and
33:56
error. Yeah.
33:57
And it's it's always going to evolve and you're going to make
34:00
mistakes along the way, and that's OK.
34:01
You learn from that. Maybe it will work again later
34:04
down the line, maybe not just right now.
34:06
So keep it there on the side somewhere.
34:10
But I think you get to know what works for everybody and what
34:15
doesn't, even with the different dynamics in our house.
34:18
You know, Josh, I would say, you know, doesn't like the loud
34:23
busyness, whereas the twins love it.
34:25
So we have to find that sort of medium or even separate
34:30
ourselves at times. So yeah, let's just do whatever
34:34
we need to do. Works well for you, yeah.
34:38
And looking ahead, what are your hopes for your children when
34:42
they grow older? Just to be able to advocate for
34:45
themselves, but more in a more natural way.
34:48
So it comes literally naturally to them because they've seen me
34:52
do it for them. And I'm as I'm doing it, I'm
34:56
hoping they are secretly storing all that information and kind of
35:02
using it to their advantage. And, and I hope that I can
35:06
continue to just give them that confidence and just be their
35:11
authentic selves and that people like them for who they are.
35:16
But that's all I'm asking people.
35:17
Happy. Healthy.
35:19
And thriving. Yeah, I'm sure they are noticing
35:24
all of it. You know, sometimes we think
35:26
that they aren't. And.
35:28
Yeah, sometimes they come out with things and you think, oh,
35:30
so you do listen. You do listen.
35:34
So. They just don't When, when, when
35:36
we want them to listen, they. Yeah.
35:44
And in terms of the neuro divergent community more
35:48
broadly, what what are your hopes for for the future?
35:52
I think that we finally actually start seeing a change.
35:55
I mean, I, I have seen a change as I've been going through the
35:58
journey and people are advocating more and we are
36:03
starting to make a change, but it's so small compared to where
36:07
we could be. So yeah, my, my aim is just to
36:12
see this sudden spark with, I don't know, with everything,
36:19
just exceptions of any difference and every sort of
36:24
making everything accessible so that it's just the norm.
36:29
That's all we are. And.
36:32
Not the exception, because at the moment it's still.
36:35
Yeah, it's very much the exception, isn't it?
36:37
Yeah, yeah. It's an everyday life where we
36:40
don't have to essentially have these conversations.
36:43
Yeah. Obviously I'll miss it, but
36:46
well. I hope, I hope we continue
36:47
having these conversations anyway.
36:49
But yeah, but in a more. Positive way.
36:53
Exactly, Exactly. That's exactly what I was going
36:55
to say. Yeah.
36:56
OK. And now moving on to the inner
36:59
journey. Who is your biggest support on
37:02
your journey? I would say everyone.
37:06
I've been very lucky. I've kind of had very positive
37:12
people around me and I don't know if that's because I've
37:16
managed it somehow or if I just attract the right people or that
37:22
I push the negative ones away. I don't know.
37:26
But I've been really lucky and I think pretty much everyone
37:30
around me has supported me some way or another.
37:34
Obviously my family, but that they are very small.
37:38
And then my community that you know, a bit.
37:42
So people like yourselves, people attending the coffee
37:44
mornings, all of them become my little sort of support network.
37:48
So yeah, I'm very grateful I'm. Very grateful, yeah.
37:53
And so are we, as I said earlier.
37:57
And how do you treat yourself with regards to your well-being?
38:01
Yeah, that one's a hard one. That one is something I've put
38:09
on hold for a long, long time. My 2026, It's not a resolution.
38:15
It's just what I want to do is to start focusing a little bit
38:21
more on me now that the twins are more settled and I'm hoping
38:26
Joshua gets more settled, that can leave me some space to
38:31
actually focus on myself, whether that be me physically,
38:35
emotionally and a centipede, you know, I just, I want to be able
38:40
to just use this year to start giving myself some grace and
38:46
take away some of that guilt that I have.
38:48
You know, every time I go out, I feel guilty because my husband's
38:52
at home looking after the kids and he's not out, you know, So I
38:56
need to get over that. I mean, it's easy once I'm out,
39:00
but it's that, you know, the lead up to it.
39:02
Like, do I say yes to this invitation?
39:05
And I must say I enjoy the social aspect.
39:10
So yeah, it's just trying to find that balance.
39:12
I don't know if we ever do find that balance, but that's what my
39:16
aim is to start focusing a little bit more.
39:19
And I did so by joining sort of the counselling sessions last
39:23
year. And I think that has really
39:24
helped. I do want to sort of push that
39:27
out there. And I know there's still a
39:28
stigma around that, but for me personally, it really has
39:31
helped. So yeah, literally I, I, I
39:36
haven't given myself more self-care, but I'm, I'm working
39:40
on it. And I think that's the one of
39:42
the biggest battles we all face is where, how, why, you know,
39:47
how, how can we do it? And.
39:49
Finding, finding the time and then sometimes you're not
39:52
predisposed to, to do it. And it's very easy when you have
39:57
busy lives and you know, you have big family like, like yours
40:00
to. Yeah, just to leave ourselves to
40:03
2nd plan. But you know, you, you've been
40:07
having the counselling sessions, you know, you, you are conscious
40:11
about it and you are doing small changes.
40:14
And I, I also think there's a bit of a misconception that.
40:17
You know, doing things for your well-being needs to be, you
40:20
know, going to the gym or go for walks or you know, I find that
40:23
the Neuro diverse Voices project for me helps me with with.
40:28
My well-being. It's a passion.
40:30
So centipede is is part of exactly.
40:36
Yeah. So yeah.
40:38
But I, I do want to try and find who like Leandra is and not just
40:44
live send all the time because you can get sucked into it quite
40:49
a lot, which I don't mind because I love it and it's
40:51
clearly my sort of passion. But I do want to rediscover who
40:55
I am because I don't think I ever have known who I am.
41:01
And so now is my chance to kind of almost reinvent myself.
41:05
Well, is it reinventing or is it just discovering who I actually
41:08
am? I don't know.
41:09
Whatever it is, I don't think you need.
41:12
I don't. Think you need reinventing?
41:13
We love you as you are. It's more about I think the the
41:17
self discovery journey that's. But that's where I'm at, and I
41:21
don't know what that looks like, but that's what it's all about
41:23
this year for me. Yeah, good, good.
41:28
And who is your biggest inspiration?
41:31
I'm going to say my mum. I'm going to say my mum because
41:35
besides her being the one who first noticed I have
41:39
neurodivergence, our family, she is one tough person.
41:45
I've never come across anyone like her.
41:49
I'm not saying it's a good thing to always be strong because, you
41:52
know, you can have wobbles and, and accept help, but no matter
41:57
what life is thrown at her, she's just dealt with it.
42:01
And, you know, she's had some pretty awful experiences.
42:04
I won't even go into them. But I've never seen her wobble.
42:09
Like, I don't know how she does it.
42:11
I mean, I'm on antidepressants. She's not on a how, how has she
42:17
gone? You know, I'm just amazed.
42:19
Like, how have you got through life?
42:21
She's, you know, in her 60s. I won't give the exact number
42:24
away. So she's a young mum, but she
42:27
just gets things done. I think the the it's a general
42:34
generational thing, isn't it? Because it's the same in my.
42:38
My family wrong stuff. So you were.
42:42
Born 20 years too late. Really.
42:45
I've still got a bit of that stuff in this, but it's not
42:48
quite as strong. So yeah, I would say my mum,
42:52
yeah. Yeah, I think you, I'm, I'm
42:55
trying to remember our first interview and I think you, you
42:59
because I, I already had this set of questions.
43:01
Yeah, back then. And I think you you said your
43:03
mum at the time as well. Yeah, I don't have like
43:06
celebrity people or anyone like that that, you know, look to.
43:09
I mean, obviously I, I love what everybody does in our community,
43:13
like yourselves and Lorraine and everybody, you know, I'm not
43:16
going to name drop everyone. But yeah, the, the person that's
43:20
been there from the start has been my mum.
43:22
And like I said, she's never wobbled.
43:25
So yeah, I've got to. I've got to give her some
43:28
credit. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
43:32
And if you were a superhero or a superpower, who or what would
43:36
that be? And how would you use it to make
43:40
the world a better place for the Near Live Virgins community?
43:43
Well, how do I think about this? And I was like, well, I'm
43:47
talking about superpowers. And I, I did mention a
43:50
superpower before, but the more I thought about it, I was like,
43:54
I'm going to be a thing. I'm going to be this new sense
43:57
system. I'm going to be the new process
44:02
and system that looks after everybody and make sure it
44:04
actually works. You know, that would be my
44:07
superpower if I could have anything that would be fixing
44:10
whatever is broken and getting everybody on the right track
44:14
because this can't go on any longer.
44:17
So yeah, that's me. I'm going to be send system.
44:23
Super send, super send. I think that's a good.
44:28
That would be a good superhero. Not Captain Underpants, just
44:31
super send. That's brilliant.
44:35
Very, very good answer. And I know you love music.
44:41
And I think we also talked about music in our first interview.
44:44
Yeah. And there's this new question
44:46
that I introduced about a song that captures your journey
44:50
either as a parent or as being, you know, you're divergent to
44:54
yourself. And it can be more than one
44:57
because I I know it's quite difficult to sum up your whole
45:01
life in in one song, but is there one or I did present it?
45:07
So I thought the whole sort of journey has been obviously like
45:12
a jungle. It's been, you know, all about
45:17
sort of finding that fierce in a sort of person and my name being
45:22
lioness. So I thought Roar by Katy Perry.
45:26
So that's what I've gone with. I finally found my inner voice
45:29
and I can just roar, but without, you know, ruffling too
45:35
many feathers. Hopefully I do it in a, a way
45:38
that people don't have a dartboard throwing darts at my
45:42
face every day like you know, that they might be doing in the
45:48
Oxfordshire County Council at times when I'm emailing every 5
45:52
minutes. But yeah, I, I think that sums
45:56
us up pretty well. It's just raw.
45:59
Be out there and. Make a nice song as well.
46:03
Yeah, that's a very nice song. OK.
46:05
And if you had the chance to go back in time, what would you
46:09
tell your younger self? I would tell her that I'm proud
46:14
of her and and I'm proud of me. So proud of old Neandra, but of
46:23
new Neandra too. Yeah, good.
46:27
And finally, if your heart had a voice, what would it tell us?
46:36
I know it's a difficult one. I think the same thing just,
46:40
yeah, to be, to be proud and just to be happy with what
46:45
you've achieved, where you come from.
46:47
So like, yeah, start accepting that praise and well done.
46:54
Yeah. And believe.
46:55
Believe in yourself. Believe that the process is
46:59
there for a reason, even though it might be challenging so.
47:04
Yeah, that's it. Great.
47:07
OK. So yeah, that's the end of the
47:12
interview. It was a great pleasure to have
47:14
you again and to hear all your updates and to see you a lot
47:18
more confident as well. And yeah, I'm looking forward to
47:22
continue our collaborations and our friendship.
47:25
And yeah, we'll more in the future.
47:29
Yeah, we've got lots of ideas and I know you've got so many.
47:32
So yeah, I'm sure we won't be bought.
47:36
No, definitely not. It's the way the HD brains
47:40
together while three we don't know because we do this together
47:45
and yeah, all the good things can came out.
47:48
Of what might come out of it. But yeah, the main thing is
47:51
we've done the interview, we've finished it and no one has
47:54
popped in. So I'm going to go with that as
47:57
being a huge win. I don't think he's gone school,
48:00
but at least it's it's peaceful. Yeah, yeah, great.
48:06
And it was great to interview him as a test this morning
48:09
anyway, so it was quite fun. Thank you so much, Leandra.
48:14
Thank you. Thanks, Andrea.
48:16
It's been a pleasure. Yeah.
48:17
Thank you. Thank you.
48:18
Bye. Thank you for listening or
48:38
watching the Neuro Diverse Voices Podcast.
48:41
If today's conversation resonated with you, please know
48:45
that you are not alone. Your experience matters, your
48:49
voice matters, and your way of being in the world is valid.
48:54
I'm Andrea Costa and this podcast exists to celebrate
48:58
neural divergent lives in all their complexity, strength, and
49:02
individuality. If you enjoy this episode,
49:06
please subscribe, share it, and help these stories reach the
49:09
people who may need them the most.
49:12
Join me again next time for more honest conversations, powerful
49:16
stories, and diverse perspectives.
49:19
Because every neuro divergent journey is different.
49:23
And remember, when you meet one neuro divergent person, you've
49:26
only met one neuro divergent person.
49:30
Until next time, take care, bye. None.