Latest / Systematic Geekology / Dungeons, Dragons, and Divine Narratives: A Deep Dive

Transcript

Dungeons, Dragons, and Divine Narratives: A Deep Dive · Systematic Geekology

1:46
Foreign.
1:49
We're
1:50
here
1:50
to
1:50
talk
1:50
about
1:51
D
1:51
and
1:51
D,
1:52
the
1:52
process
1:53
of
1:53
an
1:53
adventure.
1:54
So
1:54
a
1:54
couple
1:55
things.
1:55
How
1:55
many
1:55
of
1:56
you
1:56
all
1:56
play
1:57
D
1:57
and
1:57
D?
1:58
There
1:58
we
1:59
go.
1:59
Okay.
1:59
I
1:59
like
2:00
it.
2:00
I
2:00
like
2:00
it.
2:00
A
2:00
lot
2:00
of
2:00
hands
2:01
out
2:01
there.
2:01
How
2:02
many
2:02
of
2:02
you
2:02
have
2:02
never
2:03
played
2:03
but
2:03
you're
2:04
interested
2:04
in
2:05
D
2:05
and
2:05
D?
2:05
Curious.
2:06
Handful.
2:08
Two
2:08
people
2:08
here.
2:09
How
2:09
many
2:09
of
2:09
you
2:09
are
2:09
like
2:10
super
2:10
into
2:10
like
2:11
process
2:12
philosophy
2:13
and
2:13
theology
2:14
and
2:14
really
2:14
want
2:15
know
2:15
that
2:15
D
2:16
and
2:16
D
2:16
is
2:16
very
2:16
processed
2:17
and
2:17
that's
2:17
why
2:17
here,
2:18
because
2:18
you
2:18
like
2:18
the
2:18
intersection
2:18
of
2:19
all
2:19
of
2:19
them.
2:20
So
2:20
we're
2:20
mostly
2:20
here
2:20
for
2:20
D
2:21
and
2:21
D.
2:21
That's
2:21
right.
2:21
They're
2:21
mostly
2:22
here
2:22
for
2:22
D
2:23
and
2:23
D.
2:24
So
2:24
the
2:24
other
2:24
day,
2:25
for
2:25
our
2:25
pregame
2:25
event,
2:25
we
2:26
played
2:26
a
2:26
D
2:26
and
2:26
D.
2:27
Tolkien
2:28
esque.
2:29
Yeah,
2:29
it
2:30
was
2:30
in
2:30
the
2:30
Tolkien
2:30
world.
2:30
It
2:31
was
2:31
in
2:31
Middle
2:31
Earth,
2:31
not
2:31
Middle
2:32
Earth.
2:32
It
2:32
was
2:32
in.
2:33
Yeah,
2:33
Middle
2:33
Earth.
2:34
I
2:34
was
2:34
almost
2:34
said
2:34
Midgard
2:35
because
2:35
I
2:35
saw
2:36
my
2:36
Thor
2:36
friend
2:37
here.
2:37
Middle
2:37
Earth.
2:38
And
2:38
so
2:38
these
2:38
are
2:39
some
2:39
of
2:39
the
2:39
quotes,
2:40
just
2:40
a
2:40
few
2:41
quotes
2:41
from
2:43
that
2:43
game.
2:44
The
2:44
dice
2:44
giveth
2:45
and
2:45
the
2:45
dice
2:45
taketh
2:46
away
2:50
after
2:51
my
2:51
friend
2:52
rolled
2:54
a
2:54
NAT
2:55
one
2:55
a
2:56
few
2:56
times,
2:56
screams
2:57
out,
2:57
this
2:58
game
2:58
is
2:58
for
2:58
nerds.
3:01
And
3:02
then
3:02
there
3:02
was
3:02
an
3:02
existential
3:03
question
3:03
of,
3:04
does
3:04
an
3:05
arc
3:05
have
3:05
a
3:05
heart?
3:06
Does
3:06
an
3:06
orc
3:06
have
3:06
a
3:07
heart?
3:08
And
3:09
then,
3:10
damn
3:10
it,
3:11
that
3:11
was
3:11
my
3:11
fifth
3:12
crit
3:12
fail,
3:13
I
3:14
think.
3:14
I
3:14
think
3:14
that
3:15
was.
3:18
And
3:19
then.
3:19
And
3:19
then
3:20
someone
3:20
had
3:21
to
3:21
get
3:21
up
3:21
and
3:21
use
3:22
the
3:22
restroom
3:22
while
3:22
we
3:22
were
3:23
playing.
3:23
And
3:23
he
3:24
quoted.
3:24
This
3:25
is
3:25
a
3:25
full
3:25
on
3:25
quote.
3:26
While
3:26
this
3:26
is
3:27
happening,
3:27
Gimli
3:28
heads
3:28
off
3:28
to
3:29
water
3:29
some
3:29
mushrooms.
3:32
I
3:32
have
3:32
a
3:32
question
3:33
about
3:33
his
3:33
dark
3:34
gift.
3:34
Yep.
3:35
And
3:37
I
3:37
can't
3:38
remind.
3:38
Right.
3:38
Oh,
3:39
this
3:39
was.
3:39
I
3:40
think
3:40
this
3:40
was
3:40
you,
3:41
Eric.
3:41
Right?
3:42
You
3:42
said
3:43
it
3:43
wasn't
3:43
an
3:43
attack.
3:44
I
3:44
was
3:44
just
3:44
perceiving
3:45
with
3:45
my
3:45
arrow.
3:48
All
3:49
time
3:49
favorite
3:49
quote.
3:49
That
3:50
was
3:50
so,
3:50
so
3:50
good.
3:51
So.
3:52
Yeah,
3:52
yeah.
3:54
Perception
3:54
check.
3:55
Exactly.
3:56
So,
3:56
you
3:56
know,
3:56
Father
3:57
Joe
3:57
Bracken
3:58
asked
3:58
the
3:58
question,
3:59
does
3:59
God
3:59
roll
4:00
dice?
4:01
And
4:01
I'm
4:02
not
4:02
sure,
4:02
but
4:03
we
4:03
do.
4:03
And
4:03
that's
4:04
what
4:04
we're
4:04
gonna
4:04
do
4:04
today.
4:05
So
4:05
we're
4:06
gonna
4:06
go
4:06
down
4:06
and
4:06
just
4:07
kind
4:07
of
4:07
introduce
4:07
ourselves
4:07
and
4:07
do
4:08
a
4:08
quick,
4:08
like
4:09
two
4:09
minute
4:10
if
4:10
that
4:11
origin
4:11
story
4:11
of
4:11
what
4:12
got
4:12
us
4:12
into
4:12
D
4:12
and
4:12
D
4:12
or
4:13
our
4:13
connection
4:13
to
4:13
D
4:13
and
4:13
D.
4:14
And
4:14
I'll
4:14
just
4:14
start
4:14
real
4:14
fast.
4:15
As
4:16
a
4:16
kid
4:16
of
4:17
the
4:17
80s,
4:18
I
4:18
love
4:18
D
4:18
and
4:19
D,
4:19
but
4:19
I
4:19
just
4:19
never
4:19
played
4:19
it.
4:20
I
4:20
just
4:20
like
4:20
the
4:20
manuals
4:21
and
4:21
the
4:21
monster
4:21
handbook
4:22
and
4:23
I
4:23
just
4:23
love
4:23
looking
4:23
at
4:23
the
4:23
pictures
4:24
and
4:24
reading
4:24
the
4:24
profiles.
4:25
I'm
4:25
a
4:25
comic
4:25
book
4:26
geek
4:26
and
4:27
love
4:27
the
4:28
Marvel
4:29
character
4:29
profiles
4:30
and
4:30
Marvel
4:31
handbooks
4:31
and
4:31
all
4:32
those
4:32
things.
4:32
So
4:32
I
4:32
just
4:33
kind
4:33
of
4:33
read
4:33
D
4:33
and
4:33
D
4:34
books
4:35
to
4:36
look
4:36
at
4:36
the
4:36
cool
4:36
art
4:37
and
4:37
fantasy
4:38
world
4:38
as
4:39
of
4:39
late,
4:39
being
4:40
a
4:40
part
4:40
of
4:40
Systemic
4:40
Ecology
4:41
and
4:41
other
4:42
geek
4:42
friends
4:42
have
4:43
played
4:43
a
4:43
few
4:43
times.
4:43
A
4:44
real
4:44
big
4:44
novice
4:45
when
4:45
it
4:45
comes
4:45
to
4:45
actual
4:45
playing,
4:46
but
4:46
it's
4:46
super
4:47
fun
4:47
and
4:47
I
4:47
love
4:47
it
4:47
and
4:47
I'm
4:48
hooked
4:48
and
4:48
can't
4:49
wait
4:49
to
4:49
have
4:49
this
4:49
conversation.
4:50
Samantha
4:51
Cool.
4:51
Hello,
4:52
everybody.
4:52
I'm
4:52
Samantha
4:53
Perez.
4:54
I
4:54
have
4:54
been
4:54
on
4:55
one
4:55
episode
4:55
of
4:55
Systematic
4:56
Geekology.
4:56
I've
4:57
been
4:57
on
4:57
a.
4:58
I've
4:58
dabbled
4:58
around
4:59
the
4:59
God
4:59
pod
5:00
scene
5:00
here.
5:02
If
5:03
you
5:03
listen
5:03
to
5:03
the
5:04
bonus
5:04
episodes
5:05
of
5:05
you
5:05
have
5:05
Permission
5:06
and
5:06
Homebrewed,
5:07
I've
5:07
been
5:08
on
5:08
at
5:08
least
5:08
one
5:08
of
5:08
those.
5:10
But
5:11
so
5:12
my
5:13
D
5:13
and
5:13
D
5:13
history,
5:14
it's
5:14
been.
5:14
It's
5:14
relatively
5:15
recent,
5:16
more
5:16
recent
5:16
than
5:16
people
5:16
expect
5:17
when
5:17
they
5:17
find
5:18
out
5:18
about
5:18
my
5:19
nerd
5:19
history.
5:19
That
5:20
D
5:20
and
5:20
D
5:20
entered
5:21
relatively
5:22
recently
5:22
in
5:22
my
5:23
fandom
5:23
pantheon.
5:24
I've
5:25
been
5:25
playing
5:25
for.
5:26
It
5:26
was
5:26
about
5:26
10
5:26
years.
5:27
It
5:27
was
5:27
when
5:27
I
5:27
moved
5:28
to
5:28
D.C.
5:28
from
5:29
Texas
5:30
and
5:30
was
5:30
starting
5:30
to
5:31
meet
5:31
new
5:31
people
5:31
and
5:32
I
5:32
met
5:32
a
5:33
group
5:33
of
5:33
people
5:33
that
5:34
played.
5:34
And
5:34
I
5:34
knew
5:34
what
5:34
it
5:34
was,
5:35
but
5:36
just
5:36
growing
5:36
up
5:37
in
5:37
the,
5:37
like,
5:37
I
5:37
don't
5:38
know,
5:38
Bible
5:38
belt,
5:38
Texas
5:39
area
5:39
I
5:39
was
5:39
from,
5:40
it
5:40
was
5:40
not
5:40
something
5:40
that
5:41
people
5:41
I
5:41
was
5:41
friends
5:42
with
5:42
played.
5:42
I
5:43
played
5:43
like
5:43
a
5:43
couple
5:44
of
5:44
the
5:44
computer
5:44
games,
5:45
so
5:45
I
5:45
knew
5:45
what
5:45
it
5:45
was.
5:46
But
5:46
it
5:46
was
5:46
about
5:47
10
5:47
years
5:47
ago
5:47
that
5:48
a
5:48
friend
5:48
introduced
5:49
me
5:49
to
5:49
it
5:49
and
5:49
I
5:49
played
5:50
my
5:50
first
5:50
campaign.
5:51
We
5:51
played
5:51
Pathfinder
5:52
to
5:53
Begin,
5:53
which
5:53
is
5:53
kind
5:54
of
5:54
a
5:54
D
5:54
and
5:54
D
5:55
offshoot,
5:55
because
5:55
some
5:56
nerds
5:56
were
5:56
not
5:56
happy
5:56
with
5:57
how
5:57
D
5:57
and
5:57
D
5:57
was
5:57
going,
5:58
so
5:58
they
5:58
made
5:58
their
5:58
own
5:58
D
5:58
and
5:59
D
5:59
with
5:59
Blackjack
5:59
Nerds.
6:00
Not
6:00
happy,
6:00
what?
6:02
So
6:02
that
6:03
was
6:03
my
6:03
introduction,
6:03
and
6:04
that's
6:04
still
6:04
what
6:04
I
6:04
played
6:05
the
6:05
most,
6:05
but
6:05
that
6:06
was
6:06
about
6:06
10
6:06
years
6:06
ago,
6:06
and
6:06
I
6:07
got
6:07
hooked
6:07
on
6:07
it
6:07
from
6:07
there.
6:08
And
6:08
I
6:08
have
6:08
been
6:08
kind
6:08
of.
6:09
I've
6:09
been
6:09
in
6:10
a
6:10
campaign
6:10
basically
6:11
ever
6:11
since,
6:12
especially
6:12
when
6:13
Covid
6:14
happened
6:14
and
6:14
we
6:14
were
6:14
in
6:15
quarantine.
6:15
I
6:15
reconnected
6:16
with
6:16
a
6:16
bunch
6:16
of
6:16
friends
6:17
back
6:17
home
6:18
and
6:18
started
6:19
a
6:19
couple
6:19
of
6:19
online
6:20
campaigns
6:21
of
6:21
stuff.
6:21
And
6:21
so
6:22
it's
6:22
been
6:22
a
6:22
really
6:23
important
6:24
part
6:24
of
6:24
staying
6:24
connected
6:25
with
6:25
people
6:25
that
6:25
I
6:25
grew
6:26
up
6:26
with.
6:26
And
6:27
now
6:27
I
6:27
play
6:27
it
6:27
a
6:27
bunch.
6:28
I
6:28
taught
6:28
beginners
6:29
D
6:29
and
6:29
D
6:29
at
6:29
a
6:29
library
6:30
last
6:30
summer
6:30
and
6:30
played
6:31
games
6:31
for
6:31
new
6:32
people.
6:32
And
6:32
it's
6:32
been
6:32
a
6:32
lot
6:33
of
6:33
fun.
6:33
It's
6:33
been
6:33
a
6:33
really
6:33
cool,
6:34
cool
6:34
exercise
6:35
in
6:35
storytelling
6:36
and
6:36
meaning
6:36
making
6:37
and
6:37
just
6:38
a
6:38
neat
6:38
community
6:38
feature.
6:39
So
6:39
I'm
6:39
excited.
6:39
Amen.
6:40
And
6:40
tell
6:40
me
6:41
real
6:41
fast,
6:41
like,
6:41
systematic
6:42
ecology
6:42
when
6:43
I
6:43
think
6:43
beer
6:43
camp
6:43
does
6:44
well.
6:44
And
6:44
a
6:45
lot
6:45
of
6:45
the
6:45
talks
6:45
here,
6:45
there's
6:45
a
6:46
lot
6:46
of,
6:46
like,
6:46
you
6:47
have
6:47
permission
6:47
Talk
6:47
of
6:48
we
6:48
love
6:48
Dan
6:48
Koch,
6:49
but
6:49
also
6:50
in
6:50
terms
6:50
of
6:50
like,
6:51
you
6:51
have
6:51
permission
6:52
to
6:52
be
6:53
faith
6:53
and
6:54
science,
6:54
you
6:55
have
6:55
permission
6:55
to
6:55
be
6:55
a
6:56
geek
6:56
and
6:56
a
6:56
Christian
6:56
in
6:56
a
6:57
person
6:57
of
6:57
faith,
6:57
that
6:58
they
6:58
come
6:58
together
6:58
so
6:59
often.
6:59
The
6:59
questions
7:00
that
7:00
arise
7:00
out
7:01
of
7:01
these
7:02
fandoms,
7:02
Star
7:03
Wars,
7:03
Tolkien,
7:04
Alien
7:04
franchise,
7:05
video
7:05
games,
7:06
and
7:06
this
7:07
are
7:08
deep
7:08
existential
7:09
questions
7:09
that
7:09
we
7:09
wrestle
7:10
with
7:10
within
7:10
our
7:10
faith
7:10
communities
7:11
as
7:11
well.
7:11
So
7:11
that's
7:12
what
7:12
we've
7:12
discovered
7:12
and
7:12
what
7:13
we
7:13
try
7:13
to
7:13
do
7:13
is
7:13
have
7:13
a
7:13
healthy
7:14
conversation
7:14
around
7:14
these
7:15
things
7:15
and
7:16
they're
7:17
susceptive
7:17
to
7:18
like
7:18
toxic
7:19
fandom
7:19
as
7:20
well
7:20
as
7:21
the
7:21
church
7:21
and
7:21
other
7:22
things
7:22
too,
7:22
but
7:23
trying
7:23
to
7:23
have
7:23
healthy
7:23
conversations.
7:24
And
7:24
all
7:24
of
7:25
this
7:25
is
7:25
to
7:25
say,
7:25
yeah,
7:25
we
7:26
know
7:26
the
7:26
history
7:26
behind
7:26
the,
7:27
the
7:27
religious
7:28
community's
7:28
reaction
7:28
to
7:29
like
7:29
fantasy
7:30
and
7:30
Dungeons
7:30
and
7:30
Dragons,
7:31
but
7:31
this
7:31
is
7:31
a
7:32
space
7:32
where,
7:32
like,
7:32
look,
7:32
this
7:33
is
7:33
where
7:33
we
7:33
can
7:33
incorporate
7:34
this.
7:34
And
7:34
Tom
7:34
has
7:35
a
7:35
fantastic
7:35
story
7:36
of
7:36
how
7:37
his
7:37
dad
7:38
incorporated
7:39
it.
7:39
Both
7:40
yet
7:40
person
7:41
of
7:41
faith
7:41
community
7:41
and
7:42
fantasy
7:42
Dungeon
7:43
dragon.
7:43
Tom,
7:43
introduce
7:44
yourself,
7:44
your
7:44
background,
7:45
who
7:45
you
7:45
are,
7:45
and
7:46
run
7:46
with
7:46
your
7:46
paper,
7:47
my
7:47
friend.
7:48
Thank
7:48
you.
7:49
I'm
7:49
Tom
7:49
Herman's
7:50
Webster.
7:51
I'm
7:51
an
7:52
acquiring
7:52
editor
7:53
for
7:53
academic
7:54
Theology
7:54
and
7:54
Ethics
7:55
at
7:55
Orbis
7:55
Books.
7:56
You
7:56
may
7:56
have
7:56
seen
7:57
me
7:57
up
7:57
at
7:57
the
7:57
table
7:57
upstairs.
7:58
I
7:58
also
7:59
teach
7:59
Methodist
8:00
studies
8:00
at
8:00
Memphis
8:01
Theological
8:01
Seminary.
8:02
I
8:02
have
8:03
a
8:03
PhD
8:04
in
8:04
process
8:05
Eco
8:05
Sacramental
8:06
Liberation
8:07
Theology
8:09
from
8:10
Boston
8:10
University
8:11
and
8:12
I
8:12
am
8:12
a
8:12
Methodist
8:13
pastor
8:14
from
8:14
the
8:14
North
8:14
Alabama
8:15
Conference,
8:16
though
8:17
I
8:17
live
8:17
in
8:18
New
8:18
York
8:19
because
8:19
that's
8:19
where
8:19
the
8:19
publishing
8:20
house
8:20
is.
8:22
So,
8:23
yeah,
8:24
my
8:25
answer
8:25
to
8:26
the
8:26
intro,
8:27
how
8:28
did
8:28
you
8:28
get
8:28
into
8:28
DD?
8:29
Is
8:30
a
8:30
long
8:31
paper.
8:31
So
8:32
here
8:32
we
8:33
go.
8:35
In
8:35
1984,
8:37
Melanie
8:38
Smith
8:38
wrote
8:39
an
8:39
article
8:39
for
8:39
the
8:40
Decatur
8:40
Daily
8:41
newspaper
8:41
in
8:41
Decatur,
8:42
Alabama,
8:43
titled
8:43
Minister
8:44
Gives
8:44
Game
8:45
Religious
8:46
Tone.
8:47
She
8:48
wrote,
8:48
battling
8:48
evil
8:49
in
8:49
a
8:49
fantasy
8:50
world
8:50
may
8:50
help
8:50
young
8:51
people
8:51
learn
8:51
to
8:52
stand
8:52
up
8:52
to
8:52
evil
8:53
in
8:53
the
8:53
real
8:53
world,
8:54
believes
8:54
a
8:55
local
8:55
minister.
8:56
Smith
8:57
contrasted
8:57
the
8:58
minister
8:58
and
8:58
his
8:58
fellow
8:59
Dungeons
8:59
and
8:59
Dragons
9:00
adventurers
9:01
with,
9:01
quote,
9:01
some
9:02
Christian
9:02
groups
9:03
who
9:03
had
9:04
condemned
9:04
the
9:04
game
9:05
for
9:05
its
9:05
free
9:06
references
9:06
to
9:07
magic,
9:07
wizardry,
9:08
violence
9:09
and
9:09
occultism.
9:10
Close
9:11
quote.
9:12
Such
9:12
condemnations
9:13
characterized
9:14
the
9:14
so
9:14
called
9:14
Satanic
9:15
panic
9:16
of
9:16
the
9:16
1980s.
9:17
You
9:17
may
9:17
remember
9:18
that
9:18
and
9:19
its
9:19
conservative
9:19
Christian
9:20
undercurrents.
9:21
And
9:21
though
9:22
it
9:22
is
9:23
40
9:23
years
9:23
ago,
9:24
that
9:24
era
9:25
is
9:25
still
9:25
very
9:26
politically
9:26
consequential
9:27
today.
9:28
Aware
9:29
of
9:29
this
9:29
broader
9:30
Satanic
9:31
Panic
9:31
context,
9:32
that
9:32
minister
9:33
told
9:33
Smith,
9:34
in
9:34
this
9:35
country,
9:36
we
9:36
tend
9:36
to
9:36
think
9:37
of
9:37
spirituality
9:38
as
9:38
going
9:38
to
9:38
church
9:39
and
9:39
praying
9:39
if
9:40
things
9:40
get
9:40
real
9:41
bad.
9:42
Playing
9:42
D
9:42
and
9:42
D
9:43
teaches
9:43
students
9:44
that
9:44
spirituality
9:45
is
9:45
more
9:45
than
9:46
going
9:46
to
9:46
church
9:46
on
9:47
Sunday.
9:47
Spirituality
9:48
is
9:49
a
9:49
mental
9:49
attitude
9:50
or
9:50
a
9:50
way
9:50
of
9:50
living
9:51
in
9:51
the
9:51
world
9:51
that
9:52
shapes
9:52
the
9:52
whole
9:53
of
9:53
life.
9:55
Forty
9:56
years
9:56
later,
9:56
I
9:57
think
9:57
we
9:57
should
9:57
approach
9:58
the
9:58
minister
9:58
in
9:59
that
9:59
newspaper
10:00
article
10:01
with
10:02
a
10:02
serious
10:03
care
10:04
as
10:04
a
10:04
conversation
10:05
partner
10:06
for
10:06
constructive
10:07
theology,
10:07
for
10:07
spiritual
10:08
formation,
10:09
for
10:09
theological
10:10
education,
10:10
for
10:11
pastoral
10:11
care
10:12
for
10:12
people
10:13
of
10:13
all
10:13
ages.
10:14
And
10:14
I'm
10:15
kind
10:15
of
10:15
lucky
10:16
because,
10:16
as
10:16
Will
10:16
mentioned,
10:17
I
10:17
actually
10:17
can
10:18
approach
10:18
that
10:18
minister
10:19
as
10:19
a
10:19
serious
10:20
conversation
10:20
partner
10:21
because
10:21
he's
10:21
my
10:21
dad.
10:24
As
10:24
D
10:24
and
10:25
D
10:25
adventuring
10:25
theologians,
10:26
I
10:26
think
10:27
we
10:27
can
10:27
recognize
10:28
many
10:28
ethical
10:28
and
10:29
cosmological
10:30
questions
10:30
that
10:30
bubble
10:31
up
10:31
in
10:31
role
10:32
playing
10:32
games.
10:32
And
10:32
that's
10:33
what
10:33
I'm
10:33
going
10:33
to
10:33
talk
10:33
about
10:34
today
10:34
are
10:34
the
10:34
cosmological
10:35
and
10:36
ethical
10:36
questions
10:37
and
10:37
how
10:38
we're
10:38
spiritually
10:38
formed
10:39
when
10:40
we
10:40
play
10:40
role
10:41
playing
10:41
games.
10:42
More
10:43
than
10:43
merely
10:43
conveying
10:44
and
10:44
storing
10:45
information,
10:45
role
10:46
playing
10:46
encourages
10:47
us
10:47
to
10:47
cultivate
10:48
relationships
10:49
that
10:49
undergird
10:50
the
10:50
social
10:51
critiques,
10:52
solidarity
10:52
and
10:53
self
10:53
determination
10:54
that
10:54
are
10:55
necessary
10:55
for
10:56
us
10:56
if
10:57
we
10:57
are
10:57
able
10:57
to
10:58
bring
10:58
about
10:58
an
10:58
abundant
10:59
life
10:59
of
10:59
justice
11:00
and
11:00
love
11:00
throughout
11:01
all
11:01
of
11:01
creation.
11:02
Theological
11:03
reflection
11:04
on
11:04
D
11:05
and
11:05
D
11:05
might
11:05
feel
11:06
weird
11:07
because,
11:07
like,
11:08
that's
11:08
not
11:08
the
11:08
Bible
11:09
or
11:09
Jesus
11:09
isn't
11:09
there
11:10
or
11:10
something,
11:11
but
11:11
I
11:12
think
11:12
it's
11:12
necessary
11:13
because
11:14
it
11:14
can
11:14
encourage
11:15
abundant
11:16
living
11:17
in
11:17
God's
11:18
own
11:18
adventure.
11:19
When
11:20
we
11:20
theologically
11:21
think
11:21
about
11:21
the
11:21
adventures
11:22
we
11:22
go
11:23
on
11:24
and
11:24
when
11:24
we
11:25
recognize
11:25
God's
11:26
adventure
11:26
of
11:27
zest,
11:27
beauty,
11:28
love
11:28
and
11:28
peace
11:29
with
11:30
us,
11:31
to
11:31
use
11:32
Whitehead
11:32
language,
11:34
I
11:34
want
11:34
us
11:34
to
11:34
think
11:35
about
11:35
theological
11:36
education
11:37
today
11:38
in
11:38
a
11:38
broader
11:39
way
11:39
than
11:39
a
11:39
lot
11:40
of
11:40
Protestants
11:40
and
11:41
Catholics
11:41
have
11:41
talked
11:41
about
11:42
it
11:42
in
11:42
recent
11:43
decades.
11:44
Justo
11:45
Gonzalez
11:46
is
11:46
a
11:46
brilliant,
11:47
brilliant
11:47
thinker,
11:48
and
11:48
he
11:49
has
11:49
argued
11:49
that
11:49
theological
11:50
education
11:51
today
11:52
must
11:52
return
11:52
to
11:53
its
11:53
proper
11:53
place,
11:54
which
11:54
is
11:54
at
11:54
the
11:55
heart
11:55
of
11:55
the
11:55
church.
11:56
It
11:57
must
11:57
turn
11:57
into
11:58
a
11:58
lifelong
11:59
process
11:59
and
12:00
develop
12:00
in
12:01
such
12:01
a
12:01
way
12:01
that
12:02
helps
12:02
the
12:02
entire
12:03
church
12:04
face
12:05
constantly
12:05
evolving
12:06
circumstances
12:07
and
12:08
unexpected
12:09
challenges.
12:10
And
12:11
I
12:11
think
12:12
we
12:12
should
12:12
approach
12:13
Dungeons
12:13
and
12:13
Dragons
12:14
in
12:14
the
12:15
spirit
12:15
of
12:15
Gonzalez's
12:16
claim
12:16
that
12:17
theological
12:18
inquiry
12:19
is
12:19
not
12:20
just
12:21
for
12:21
interesting
12:22
pastimes
12:23
of
12:23
curious
12:24
people.
12:26
Rather,
12:26
theological
12:27
inquiry
12:28
is
12:28
an
12:28
act
12:28
of
12:28
devotion
12:29
and
12:29
obedience
12:30
to
12:30
God,
12:31
to
12:31
love
12:31
God
12:32
with
12:32
all
12:32
of
12:32
your
12:33
heart
12:33
and
12:33
mind.
12:35
Role
12:35
playing
12:36
games
12:36
can
12:36
give
12:36
us
12:37
a
12:37
vision
12:38
of
12:38
decoupling
12:39
theological
12:40
education
12:41
from
12:41
academic
12:42
requirements
12:43
for
12:43
a
12:43
degree.
12:45
Theological
12:46
education,
12:47
D
12:47
and
12:47
D
12:47
teaches
12:48
us,
12:49
are
12:49
more
12:49
inclusive
12:50
and
12:50
dynamic
12:51
processes
12:52
of
12:52
how
12:52
we
12:53
relate
12:53
to
12:53
ourselves,
12:54
to
12:55
each
12:55
other,
12:55
to
12:56
our
12:56
broader
12:56
community,
12:57
and
12:58
to
12:58
God.
13:00
So
13:01
my
13:01
dad's
13:02
story.
13:03
He
13:04
Learned
13:04
to
13:04
play
13:04
DD
13:04
when
13:05
he
13:05
was
13:05
in
13:05
seminary
13:06
at
13:06
Perkins
13:07
at
13:07
SMU
13:08
in
13:08
Dallas,
13:08
Texas
13:09
in
13:09
the
13:09
late
13:10
70s.
13:11
After
13:11
graduating
13:12
from
13:13
Perkins,
13:13
he
13:13
was
13:13
appointed
13:14
to
13:14
pastor
13:14
a
13:14
small
13:15
church
13:15
outside
13:15
of
13:16
Birmingham,
13:16
Alabama,
13:17
and
13:17
there
13:17
was
13:17
a
13:18
small
13:18
youth
13:18
group
13:18
at
13:18
the
13:18
church
13:19
with
13:19
only
13:19
like
13:19
10
13:20
kids.
13:21
When
13:21
they
13:22
learned
13:22
that
13:22
my
13:23
dad
13:23
had
13:24
played
13:24
D
13:24
and
13:24
D
13:24
before,
13:25
Keep
13:25
in
13:26
mind
13:26
D
13:26
And
13:26
d
13:26
is
13:26
like
13:27
7
13:27
years
13:27
old
13:27
at
13:28
this
13:28
point,
13:28
right?
13:29
8
13:29
years
13:29
old
13:29
at
13:29
this
13:30
point.
13:31
When.
13:32
When
13:32
the
13:32
kids
13:33
learned
13:33
that
13:33
my
13:33
dad
13:34
had
13:34
played
13:34
in
13:34
seminary,
13:37
several
13:37
of
13:38
them
13:38
were
13:38
like,
13:38
hey,
13:39
we
13:39
want
13:39
to
13:39
play
13:39
too.
13:40
How
13:41
though?
13:43
And
13:43
so
13:43
they
13:43
set
13:43
up
13:44
a
13:44
time
13:44
the
13:44
following
13:44
week
13:45
to
13:45
learn
13:46
the
13:46
game
13:46
and
13:46
for
13:47
my
13:47
dad
13:47
to
13:48
try
13:48
to
13:48
figure
13:48
out
13:49
how
13:49
to
13:49
be
13:49
a
13:49
dungeon
13:50
master.
13:51
And
13:51
they
13:51
then
13:52
played
13:52
at
13:52
least
13:52
once
13:52
a
13:52
month
13:53
for
13:53
the
13:53
next
13:53
three
13:53
years.
13:54
It
13:55
became
13:55
youth
13:55
group.
13:56
It
13:56
became
13:57
a
13:57
regular
13:58
act
13:58
of
13:59
the
13:59
church.
14:01
And
14:01
my
14:01
dad
14:01
remembers
14:02
that
14:02
the
14:02
adventures
14:03
felt
14:04
really
14:04
bad
14:05
at
14:05
first.
14:07
If
14:07
you've
14:07
ever
14:08
been.
14:08
How
14:09
many
14:09
of
14:09
you
14:09
have
14:09
ever
14:09
DMed
14:11
brave
14:11
souls.
14:13
I've
14:13
tried
14:13
it
14:14
once.
14:14
I'm
14:14
terrible
14:14
at
14:15
it.
14:16
If
14:17
you've
14:17
ever
14:17
been
14:17
an
14:18
ear,
14:18
if
14:18
you've
14:18
ever
14:19
been
14:19
an
14:19
early
14:19
dm,
14:20
so
14:20
think
14:21
about
14:21
your.
14:21
Some
14:22
of
14:22
your
14:22
earliest
14:22
games.
14:23
You
14:23
may
14:24
recognize
14:24
these
14:25
feelings.
14:26
There
14:26
was
14:26
no
14:27
way
14:27
he
14:27
had
14:27
taken
14:28
everything
14:28
into
14:28
account.
14:30
He
14:31
had
14:31
not
14:31
anticipated
14:32
at
14:32
all
14:33
how
14:33
creative
14:33
the
14:33
players
14:34
could
14:34
be
14:35
in
14:35
their
14:36
conversation
14:36
and
14:36
their
14:37
work
14:37
and
14:37
action
14:37
with
14:38
each
14:38
other.
14:39
And
14:39
he
14:40
felt
14:41
totally
14:41
inadequate
14:42
because
14:42
he
14:42
felt
14:43
out
14:43
of
14:43
control.
14:44
Right?
14:45
How
14:45
familiar
14:45
is
14:46
that?
14:46
DMs?
14:47
These
14:48
early
14:48
experiences
14:49
of
14:49
learning
14:49
to
14:49
play
14:50
as
14:50
a
14:50
DM,
14:51
I
14:51
think,
14:51
demonstrate
14:52
the
14:52
necessity
14:53
for
14:53
us
14:54
as
14:54
people
14:54
of
14:54
faith,
14:55
for
14:55
educators,
14:56
for
14:56
pastors,
14:57
for
14:57
spiritual
14:57
mentors,
14:58
to
14:59
teach
14:59
from
15:00
curiosity
15:01
or
15:01
hope
15:02
or
15:02
empathy
15:03
or
15:03
honesty
15:04
instead
15:05
of
15:05
from
15:06
a
15:06
desire
15:06
for
15:06
control.
15:08
When
15:08
we
15:08
teach
15:09
from
15:09
curiosity
15:10
or
15:10
hope
15:11
or
15:11
empathy
15:11
or
15:11
honesty,
15:12
we
15:13
actually
15:14
don't
15:14
fear
15:15
the
15:16
lack
15:16
of
15:16
control.
15:17
We
15:17
don't
15:17
fear
15:18
our
15:18
failure
15:18
to
15:19
anticipate
15:19
the
15:20
possible
15:20
events
15:21
that
15:21
occur
15:21
in
15:22
our
15:22
relationships
15:23
as
15:23
learners
15:23
and
15:24
as
15:24
disciples.
15:25
My
15:26
dad's
15:26
own
15:26
anxieties
15:27
impacted
15:27
the
15:28
gameplay
15:29
at
15:30
the
15:30
table.
15:30
It
15:31
also
15:31
impacted
15:32
his
15:32
own
15:32
perceptions
15:33
of
15:34
the
15:34
players
15:34
around
15:35
the
15:35
table.
15:36
Right?
15:37
They
15:38
became
15:39
a
15:39
competition
15:40
against
15:41
him.
15:42
Right?
15:43
As
15:43
spiritual
15:44
mentors,
15:45
as
15:45
disciples
15:46
on
15:46
a
15:46
path
15:47
together,
15:47
as
15:47
pastors,
15:48
as
15:48
teachers,
15:49
we
15:50
can
15:50
be
15:50
really
15:51
tempted
15:52
to
15:52
mightily
15:53
hold
15:53
on
15:53
to
15:53
the
15:54
profound
15:54
gifts
15:55
that
15:55
we've
15:55
received
15:56
so
15:56
tightly
15:58
out
15:59
of
15:59
a
15:59
fear
15:59
that
15:59
we're
16:00
going
16:00
to
16:00
mess
16:00
something
16:00
up,
16:02
that
16:02
we
16:02
actually
16:03
risk
16:03
distorting
16:04
the
16:04
very
16:05
relationships
16:06
that
16:07
can
16:07
bring
16:07
abundant
16:08
life,
16:09
that
16:09
can
16:09
bring
16:09
creative
16:10
hope,
16:10
and
16:10
that
16:10
can
16:10
bring
16:11
transforming
16:12
love
16:12
in
16:12
our
16:12
communities.
16:14
Loosening
16:15
our
16:16
grip.
16:17
DMs
16:19
loosening
16:20
our
16:20
grip
16:20
is
16:21
far
16:21
easier
16:22
said
16:22
than
16:22
done.
16:23
An
16:23
uncontrolled
16:23
love
16:24
of
16:24
God.
16:24
There's
16:25
an
16:25
uncontrolling
16:26
love
16:26
of
16:26
God.
16:26
To
16:26
quote
16:27
Tom
16:27
Ward,
16:27
I
16:27
wrote
16:28
three.
16:28
Pages
16:28
about
16:29
the
16:29
people
16:29
in
16:29
the
16:29
back
16:30
room
16:30
of
16:30
this
16:30
tavern,
16:30
and
16:30
they
16:31
didn't
16:31
want
16:31
to
16:31
go
16:31
in
16:31
the
16:31
back.
16:32
They
16:32
didn't
16:32
want
16:32
to
16:32
go
16:32
in
16:32
the
16:33
back
16:33
room
16:33
of
16:33
the
16:33
tavern.
16:36
However,
16:37
take
16:38
heart
16:38
in
16:39
the
16:39
original
16:40
texts,
16:41
Gary
16:42
Gygax
16:42
wrote,
16:44
advanced
16:45
D
16:45
and
16:45
D
16:45
is
16:45
more
16:45
than
16:45
a
16:46
framework
16:46
around
16:47
which
16:47
individual
16:48
DMs
16:48
construct
16:49
their
16:49
respective
16:50
milieu.
16:51
Advanced
16:52
D
16:52
and
16:52
D
16:52
is
16:52
above
16:53
all
16:53
a
16:54
set
16:54
of
16:54
boundaries
16:55
for
16:55
all
16:55
of
16:56
the
16:56
worlds
16:56
devised
16:57
by
16:57
referees
16:58
everywhere
17:01
that's
17:02
in
17:02
Advanced
17:03
D
17:03
and
17:03
D.
17:04
Dungeon
17:05
Master's
17:05
Guide
17:06
Gygax
17:07
contrasts
17:08
these
17:08
boundaries
17:08
to
17:09
the
17:09
rules
17:09
and
17:09
movements
17:10
and
17:10
sequence
17:10
that
17:11
govern
17:11
a
17:11
game
17:11
like
17:11
chess.
17:13
These
17:13
boundaries,
17:13
Gygax
17:14
writes,
17:14
are
17:15
broad
17:15
and
17:15
spacious,
17:16
and
17:16
there
17:16
are
17:17
numerous
17:17
areas
17:18
where
17:18
they
17:19
are
17:19
so
17:20
vague
17:20
and
17:20
amorphous
17:22
as
17:22
to
17:22
make
17:23
them
17:23
nearly
17:24
non
17:24
existent,
17:25
but
17:25
they
17:26
are
17:26
there
17:26
nonetheless.
17:27
Close
17:28
quote.
17:29
As
17:30
a
17:30
process
17:30
theologian,
17:31
this
17:32
sends
17:32
up
17:33
every
17:33
light
17:33
bulb
17:34
because
17:35
like
17:35
our
17:35
own
17:35
world,
17:36
real
17:36
limitations
17:37
exist
17:38
in
17:38
D
17:38
and
17:38
D
17:40
and
17:40
they're
17:40
cosmological
17:41
limitations
17:42
in
17:43
which
17:43
we
17:44
as
17:44
players
17:45
can
17:45
be
17:45
creative
17:46
and
17:47
make
17:47
consequential
17:48
decisions.
17:50
When
17:50
we
17:51
actually
17:51
have
17:52
these
17:52
real
17:52
limitations,
17:54
we
17:54
can
17:55
creatively
17:56
decide
17:56
and
17:57
act
17:57
in
17:57
ways
17:58
that
17:58
are
17:58
significant
17:59
for
17:59
our
17:59
spiritual
18:00
and
18:00
ethical
18:01
formation
18:02
because
18:02
those
18:03
decisions
18:03
have
18:04
consequences.
18:05
Role
18:06
playing
18:06
games
18:07
blur
18:07
the
18:08
distinctions
18:08
that
18:08
we've
18:09
created
18:09
between
18:10
theory
18:10
and
18:11
practice.
18:12
Role
18:12
playing
18:12
games
18:13
break
18:13
down
18:14
the
18:14
body
18:15
mind
18:15
dualism
18:16
that
18:17
has
18:18
driven
18:18
western
18:19
thought
18:20
because
18:23
role
18:24
playing
18:24
games
18:25
privilege
18:25
aesthetic,
18:26
manual
18:27
emotional
18:28
learning
18:28
and
18:29
knowing
18:30
instead
18:30
of
18:31
rational
18:32
abstract
18:33
discourse.
18:35
Even
18:36
in
18:36
a
18:36
fairy
18:36
world,
18:38
you
18:38
still
18:39
are
18:39
trying
18:39
to
18:39
perceive
18:40
with
18:40
your
18:40
arrow.
18:42
It's
18:42
completely
18:43
made
18:43
up
18:43
except
18:44
that
18:44
you
18:44
are
18:44
dead
18:45
serious
18:45
in
18:46
that
18:46
moment.
18:47
And
18:48
the
18:48
reason
18:48
you're
18:48
dead
18:49
serious
18:49
is
18:49
because
18:49
if
18:49
you
18:49
actually
18:50
are
18:50
trying
18:50
to
18:50
shoot
18:50
with
18:51
that
18:51
arrow,
18:51
there
18:51
are
18:51
going
18:51
to
18:52
be
18:52
consequences
18:52
for
18:52
somebody
18:53
on
18:53
your
18:53
team.
18:55
Like
18:55
in
18:55
the
18:56
game,
18:56
things
18:57
might
18:57
not
18:57
go
18:57
as
18:57
initially
18:58
planned
18:58
in
18:58
our
18:59
lives.
19:00
Within
19:00
the
19:00
game,
19:01
players
19:01
have
19:01
to
19:01
rely
19:02
on
19:02
adapting
19:02
and
19:03
improving
19:04
to
19:04
resolve
19:04
a
19:04
situation
19:05
where
19:05
the
19:05
effect
19:06
of
19:06
their
19:06
actions
19:07
and
19:07
other
19:08
participants
19:09
actions
19:09
are
19:10
for
19:10
the
19:10
most
19:11
part
19:11
out
19:12
of
19:12
their
19:12
hands.
19:14
How
19:14
much
19:14
of
19:14
a
19:15
D
19:15
and
19:15
D
19:15
game
19:16
are
19:16
you
19:17
player
19:18
actually
19:19
acting
19:21
and
19:21
how
19:22
much
19:22
are
19:22
you
19:22
sitting
19:23
there
19:23
listening
19:23
to
19:24
taking
19:24
in
19:24
accounting
19:25
for
19:25
all
19:26
of
19:26
the
19:26
people
19:26
at
19:27
the
19:27
table
19:27
with
19:27
you?
19:29
Role
19:30
playing
19:30
games
19:30
foster
19:31
a
19:32
personal
19:32
openness
19:34
to
19:34
possibility.
19:35
They
19:36
also
19:36
foster
19:37
a
19:38
more
19:38
fundamental
19:39
recognition
19:40
that
19:40
possibility
19:41
is
19:42
precisely
19:42
that
19:43
it's
19:44
possible.
19:45
No
19:45
future
19:46
event
19:46
is
19:47
ever
19:47
set
19:48
down
19:48
in
19:49
stone
19:49
in
19:49
the
19:50
game.
19:50
It's
19:51
only
19:51
possible
19:52
until
19:52
one
19:53
of
19:53
your
19:54
comrades
19:55
or
19:55
you
19:56
actually
19:56
roll
19:56
the
19:57
nat
19:57
20.
19:58
When
19:59
I
19:59
was
19:59
13.
20:00
So
20:00
I've
20:00
been
20:00
playing
20:01
D&D
20:01
for
20:01
like
20:01
23
20:03
years
20:03
now.
20:03
When
20:04
I
20:04
was
20:04
13
20:05
we
20:05
were
20:06
coming
20:06
around
20:07
a
20:07
bend
20:07
on
20:08
a
20:08
mountain
20:08
path
20:09
and
20:09
I
20:09
love
20:09
to
20:09
play
20:10
half
20:10
half
20:10
elf
20:10
rangers
20:11
and
20:12
we're
20:12
coming
20:12
around
20:12
a
20:12
bend
20:13
on
20:13
a
20:13
mountain
20:13
path
20:14
and
20:14
my
20:14
dad
20:15
just
20:15
says
20:15
roll
20:15
for
20:15
initiative.
20:16
He
20:16
doesn't
20:16
give
20:16
any
20:17
Context.
20:17
He
20:17
really,
20:18
he
20:18
does
20:18
this
20:18
a
20:18
lot.
20:20
It's
20:21
a
20:21
problem.
20:21
And
20:22
so
20:22
we
20:22
roll
20:22
for
20:22
initiative.
20:23
And
20:25
my
20:25
brother
20:25
and
20:26
I
20:26
and
20:26
our
20:27
friend
20:27
who
20:27
we
20:27
were
20:27
playing
20:27
with,
20:28
all
20:29
poor,
20:29
poor,
20:29
poor
20:30
rolls.
20:30
So
20:30
a
20:31
purple
20:31
worm
20:31
comes
20:31
up
20:32
out
20:32
of
20:32
the
20:32
ground
20:32
real
20:33
fast
20:33
and
20:34
had
20:34
like
20:34
a
20:34
19
20:34
on
20:35
the
20:35
initiative.
20:35
Purple
20:35
worm
20:36
very
20:36
much
20:36
clearly
20:36
in
20:37
charge
20:37
of
20:37
the
20:37
scenario.
20:39
And
20:40
as
20:40
they
20:40
tend
20:40
to
20:40
be.
20:40
Yeah,
20:41
as
20:41
they
20:41
tend
20:41
to
20:41
be.
20:42
What
20:42
you
20:43
need
20:43
to
20:43
know
20:43
is
20:43
earlier
20:43
in
20:44
this
20:44
campaign,
20:44
I
20:44
had
20:45
attempted
20:45
to
20:45
lasso
20:46
a
20:46
brown
20:46
dragon.
20:48
As
20:48
one
20:49
does.
20:49
As
20:49
one
20:50
does.
20:50
And
20:51
I
20:51
rolled
20:51
a
20:51
19.
20:52
The
20:52
crowd's
20:53
like,
20:53
oh,
20:53
no.
20:54
Yeah.
20:55
And
20:55
I
20:56
rolled
20:56
a
20:56
19.
20:57
And
20:58
my
20:58
dad,
20:59
not
21:00
happy
21:01
that
21:02
the
21:02
half
21:02
elf
21:03
13
21:03
year
21:03
old
21:03
had
21:03
just
21:03
rolled
21:04
a
21:04
19
21:04
to
21:05
lasso
21:05
a
21:05
brown
21:05
dragon,
21:06
was
21:06
like,
21:06
here
21:06
we
21:07
go.
21:08
Purple
21:08
worm
21:09
for
21:09
the
21:09
kill.
21:11
Purple
21:11
worm
21:12
misses
21:12
on
21:12
attack.
21:13
My
21:14
brother
21:14
who
21:14
was
21:14
running
21:15
a
21:15
thief
21:15
gets
21:16
away.
21:17
He
21:17
was
21:17
really
21:17
good
21:18
at
21:18
running
21:18
away.
21:19
He
21:20
who
21:20
fights
21:20
and
21:20
runs
21:20
away
21:21
lives
21:21
to
21:21
fight
21:21
another
21:21
day,
21:22
right?
21:22
And
21:23
I
21:23
was
21:24
not.
21:24
And
21:25
so
21:25
I
21:25
pull
21:25
out
21:25
my
21:26
bow
21:26
and
21:26
I
21:26
said,
21:27
I
21:27
fire.
21:28
And
21:29
my
21:29
dad
21:29
says,
21:30
okay,
21:30
roll.
21:32
It's
21:33
only
21:33
possible
21:35
in
21:35
that
21:35
moment,
21:36
right?
21:37
As
21:38
the
21:38
dice
21:38
comes
21:38
out
21:38
of
21:38
the
21:38
hand.
21:44
Nat
21:45
20.
21:47
And
21:47
we
21:47
played
21:48
advanced
21:48
D
21:48
and
21:48
D.
21:49
This
21:49
is
21:49
like
21:50
2003.
21:50
Right?
21:51
My
21:51
dad
21:51
is
21:52
still
21:52
using
21:52
advanced
21:53
D
21:53
and
21:53
D
21:53
in
21:53
2024.
21:54
Right?
21:55
5e
21:55
does
21:56
not
21:56
exist
21:56
to
21:56
my
21:57
father
21:59
in
22:00
advanced
22:00
D
22:00
and
22:00
D.
22:01
A
22:02
nat
22:02
20
22:02
does
22:02
what?
22:04
Kill
22:06
dead.
22:07
That's
22:07
not
22:07
an
22:08
automatic
22:08
hit.
22:08
That's
22:08
not
22:09
bonuses.
22:09
That's.
22:10
You're
22:11
a
22:11
level
22:11
two
22:12
ranger
22:13
and
22:13
you
22:14
just
22:14
ended
22:15
the
22:16
entire
22:16
encounter
22:16
with
22:17
the
22:17
purple
22:17
worm
22:18
in
22:19
one
22:19
shot.
22:22
Right?
22:22
Aside
22:22
from
22:23
inflating
22:23
ego
22:26
when
22:26
the
22:27
future
22:27
itself
22:27
is
22:28
overflowing
22:29
with
22:29
possibilities,
22:31
but
22:32
no
22:33
possible
22:34
event
22:34
in
22:34
our
22:34
future
22:35
is
22:35
fixed.
22:36
We
22:37
actually
22:38
have
22:38
to
22:38
act
22:39
in
22:39
ways
22:39
that
22:40
instantiate
22:41
hope
22:41
for
22:42
particular
22:42
outcomes.
22:44
Right?
22:45
Hope's
22:45
not.
22:45
Hope
22:46
is
22:46
never
22:46
a
22:46
thing
22:46
that
22:46
we
22:47
have
22:47
our
22:47
own.
22:47
You
22:48
understand
22:48
this,
22:48
right?
22:48
Like,
22:49
none
22:49
of
22:49
us
22:50
have
22:50
hope.
22:51
Hope
22:51
is
22:51
not
22:51
a
22:51
substance.
22:52
If
22:52
it
22:52
was,
22:52
substances
22:53
aren't
22:53
real.
22:53
Welcome
22:53
to
22:54
process
22:54
thought.
22:55
Hope
22:56
is
22:56
something
22:56
we
22:56
enact.
22:57
Hope
22:57
is
22:58
something
22:58
that
22:58
we.
22:59
Because
22:59
the
22:59
future
23:00
is
23:00
only
23:00
possible,
23:01
because
23:01
the
23:01
future
23:01
is
23:02
rad
23:02
open.
23:03
Hope
23:03
is
23:03
something
23:04
that
23:04
we
23:04
identify
23:05
among
23:06
the
23:06
possibilities
23:07
with
23:07
the
23:07
lure
23:08
of
23:08
God.
23:08
And
23:09
we
23:09
say
23:10
that,
23:10
God,
23:11
let's
23:12
go.
23:14
And
23:14
we
23:14
move.
23:15
We
23:15
make
23:16
choices
23:17
now
23:17
that
23:17
have
23:18
consequences
23:19
to
23:19
move
23:19
us
23:19
toward
23:20
the
23:21
better
23:21
world
23:21
that's
23:22
possible.
23:24
D
23:24
and
23:24
D
23:24
teaches
23:25
on
23:25
a
23:26
real
23:27
basic
23:27
level
23:28
that
23:28
every
23:29
future
23:29
event
23:30
is
23:30
only
23:30
possible.
23:32
And
23:32
this
23:32
is
23:32
baked
23:33
into
23:33
the
23:34
cosmology
23:34
the
23:35
way
23:35
that
23:35
Gygax
23:36
writes
23:36
it.
23:37
But
23:37
when
23:38
everything
23:38
is
23:38
only
23:39
possible,
23:39
and
23:39
then
23:40
I
23:40
want
23:40
to
23:40
open
23:40
this
23:41
Back
23:41
up
23:41
to
23:41
all
23:42
of
23:42
us.
23:42
That
23:43
unfixedness
23:45
can
23:45
be
23:45
a
23:46
tremendous
23:46
source
23:46
of
23:47
anxiety.
23:49
Incorporating
23:51
this
23:51
anxiety
23:53
and
23:53
unfixedness
23:54
into
23:54
the
23:55
cosmology
23:56
D
23:56
and
23:56
D
23:57
fosters
23:57
opportunities
23:58
for
23:58
us
23:59
to
23:59
encounter
24:00
the
24:00
real
24:01
impact
24:01
of
24:02
our
24:02
choices
24:03
and
24:03
other
24:03
people's
24:03
choices
24:04
that
24:05
they
24:05
make
24:05
in
24:05
the
24:05
dynamic
24:06
game
24:06
world.
24:08
For
24:08
my
24:08
dad,
24:09
being
24:09
a
24:09
DM
24:10
and
24:10
a
24:10
pastor
24:11
interwove
24:12
and
24:12
interweaves
24:13
to
24:13
this
24:13
day.
24:14
His
24:14
pastoral
24:15
care
24:15
professor
24:16
regularly
24:17
repeated
24:17
the
24:17
phrase
24:18
that
24:18
pastors
24:18
are
24:19
to
24:19
be
24:19
non
24:19
anxious
24:20
presences.
24:21
DMs.
24:23
How
24:23
many
24:23
times
24:23
have
24:24
you
24:24
had
24:24
to
24:24
be
24:24
the
24:24
non
24:25
anxious
24:25
presence
24:25
at
24:26
the
24:26
table?
24:27
Not
24:28
because
24:28
you
24:28
knew
24:29
that
24:29
it
24:29
was
24:30
going
24:30
to
24:30
be
24:30
all
24:30
right,
24:32
right?
24:33
But
24:33
because
24:33
you
24:34
knew
24:34
in
24:34
that
24:35
moment
24:35
the
24:35
anxiety
24:36
toward
24:37
the
24:37
unfixedness
24:38
of
24:38
the
24:38
future
24:38
was
24:39
not
24:40
good
24:40
for
24:40
the
24:40
well
24:41
being
24:41
of
24:41
your
24:42
players
24:44
as
24:45
people
24:45
of
24:45
faith.
24:46
In
24:47
confronting
24:48
a
24:48
radically
24:49
open
24:49
future,
24:49
as
24:50
people
24:50
of
24:50
faith
24:51
for
24:51
whom
24:51
there's
24:52
nothing
24:53
a
24:53
set
24:54
thing
24:54
ahead
24:54
of
24:55
us,
24:56
we
24:56
can
24:56
descend
24:57
into
24:57
an
24:57
anxiety
24:58
that
24:58
really
24:59
is
24:59
debilitating.
25:02
But
25:02
none
25:03
of
25:03
us
25:03
can
25:03
adventure
25:04
alone.
25:05
And
25:05
so
25:05
when
25:06
we're
25:06
adventuring
25:07
as
25:07
people
25:07
of
25:08
faith,
25:08
we
25:08
have
25:09
responsibilities
25:09
to
25:09
be
25:10
non
25:10
anxious
25:10
presences
25:11
with
25:12
one
25:12
another.
25:13
Not
25:13
ignoring
25:14
the
25:14
anxiety,
25:16
but
25:16
identifying
25:17
that
25:17
you
25:18
can
25:18
be
25:18
a
25:19
sacramentally
25:20
life
25:21
giving,
25:22
hope
25:23
filled
25:23
presence
25:24
for
25:24
someone
25:25
else.
25:26
You
25:26
can
25:27
actually
25:28
mediate
25:28
the
25:28
presence
25:29
of
25:29
God
25:30
who
25:30
calls
25:31
forth
25:31
love
25:32
and
25:32
peaceableness
25:33
and
25:33
adventure
25:34
in
25:35
the
25:35
face
25:35
of
25:35
anxiety.
25:37
For
25:38
God
25:38
journeys
25:39
with
25:39
us,
25:40
the
25:41
future
25:41
is
25:41
radically
25:41
unfixed
25:42
even
25:42
for
25:42
God
25:43
in
25:43
process
25:43
thought,
25:44
right?
25:45
So
25:46
when
25:46
God
25:46
is
25:47
journeying
25:47
with
25:47
us,
25:48
calling
25:48
forth
25:48
the
25:48
love
25:49
and
25:49
the
25:49
peace
25:49
and
25:49
the
25:50
beauty
25:50
in
25:51
the
25:51
face
25:51
of
25:51
our
25:52
anxiety,
25:54
we
25:54
have
25:55
a
25:56
non
25:56
anxious
25:57
presence
25:57
that
25:57
we
25:58
can
25:58
reveal
25:58
and
25:59
mediate
25:59
with
26:00
one
26:00
another.
26:01
This
26:02
is
26:02
the
26:02
beauty
26:02
of
26:03
playing,
26:04
I
26:05
think.
26:06
This
26:07
is
26:07
a
26:07
framework
26:08
that
26:10
Dungeons
26:11
and
26:11
Dragons,
26:11
I
26:12
think
26:12
can
26:12
challenge
26:13
us
26:14
to
26:14
practice
26:14
in
26:15
our
26:15
own
26:15
spiritual
26:16
lives
26:16
with
26:16
each
26:16
other.
26:18
The
26:19
good
26:19
dm,
26:20
like
26:20
the
26:20
good
26:21
teacher,
26:21
like
26:22
the
26:22
good
26:22
pastor,
26:24
frames
26:24
their
26:25
work
26:25
through
26:26
nurture.
26:28
The
26:28
good
26:28
DMs
26:29
job
26:30
is
26:31
to
26:31
nurture
26:32
the
26:32
relationships
26:33
at
26:33
the
26:34
table
26:35
so
26:36
that
26:36
the
26:36
relationships
26:37
around
26:38
the
26:38
table
26:38
can
26:38
be
26:38
life
26:39
giving.
26:41
Play
26:43
clears
26:44
space
26:44
then
26:46
play
26:47
nurtures
26:47
us
26:48
because
26:48
it
26:48
clears
26:49
space
26:50
to
26:50
think
26:50
new
26:50
thoughts,
26:51
to
26:52
engage
26:52
new
26:52
practices,
26:53
to
26:54
develop
26:54
new
26:54
forms
26:55
of
26:55
expression,
26:56
and
26:56
to
26:56
practice
26:57
new
26:57
ways
26:58
of
26:58
being
26:59
than
26:59
we
26:59
have
26:59
been
27:00
in
27:00
the
27:00
past.
27:02
Play
27:03
is
27:03
for
27:03
us
27:04
an
27:04
imaginative
27:05
engagement
27:06
in
27:07
an
27:07
otherwise
27:08
unimaginative
27:09
world.
27:10
It's
27:11
often
27:11
multi
27:11
sensory,
27:12
incorporating
27:14
miniature
27:14
figurines,
27:15
ambient
27:16
sounds.
27:17
I've
27:18
even
27:18
been
27:19
around
27:19
costumed
27:20
DMs
27:21
or
27:21
DMs
27:22
that
27:22
have
27:22
themed
27:23
menus
27:23
for
27:24
the
27:24
adventure.
27:25
I
27:25
love
27:25
the
27:25
themed
27:25
food.
27:26
I
27:26
do
27:26
that.
27:26
The
27:26
themed
27:27
food
27:27
is
27:27
incredible.
27:29
We
27:29
can,
27:30
as
27:30
it
27:30
were,
27:31
because
27:31
of
27:31
our
27:31
play,
27:32
we
27:33
can
27:33
try
27:33
on
27:34
values
27:34
and
27:35
activities
27:35
that
27:36
amplify,
27:37
introduce,
27:38
or
27:38
transform
27:39
our
27:39
own
27:39
lives
27:40
beyond
27:41
the
27:41
game.
27:44
This
27:44
is,
27:45
I
27:45
think,
27:45
really
27:45
important
27:46
when
27:46
we
27:46
think
27:46
about
27:47
inclusive
27:47
gameplay
27:48
and
27:48
I
27:48
want
27:48
to
27:48
talk
27:48
about
27:49
that.
27:49
This
27:50
is
27:50
really
27:50
important
27:51
when
27:51
we
27:51
think
27:51
about
27:51
inclusive
27:52
gameplay.
27:53
This
27:53
is
27:53
really
27:53
important
27:53
when
27:54
we
27:54
think
27:54
about
27:55
outside
27:56
of
27:56
the
27:56
game,
27:56
when
27:56
we
27:57
think
27:57
about
27:57
journeying
27:58
together
27:59
and
27:59
who
27:59
journeys
28:00
with
28:00
us
28:00
and
28:00
how
28:00
do
28:01
we
28:01
protect
28:01
ourselves,
28:02
but
28:02
how
28:02
do
28:02
we
28:02
also
28:03
be
28:04
caring
28:04
and
28:05
open
28:05
toward
28:06
other
28:06
journeyers
28:07
adventurers?
28:09
I
28:09
don't
28:09
want
28:10
to
28:10
leave
28:11
us
28:11
on
28:11
the
28:11
cliffhanger,
28:12
though,
28:12
of
28:12
a
28:12
random
28:13
newspaper
28:13
article
28:14
in
28:14
Decatur,
28:14
Alabama.
28:16
It's
28:16
a
28:16
short
28:16
but
28:16
interesting
28:17
article.
28:18
Dad
28:18
got
28:18
a
28:18
little
28:19
blowback
28:19
from
28:19
it.
28:20
He
28:20
was
28:20
an
28:20
associate
28:21
pastor
28:21
at
28:22
a
28:22
big
28:22
steeple
28:23
church
28:23
in
28:23
town.
28:24
The
28:24
senior
28:25
pastor
28:25
got
28:25
more
28:26
of
28:26
the
28:26
blowback
28:26
than
28:26
the
28:26
associate
28:27
pastor
28:27
who
28:27
hung
28:28
out
28:28
with
28:28
the
28:28
youth
28:28
got.
28:29
Isn't
28:29
that
28:29
how
28:29
that
28:29
always
28:30
goes?
28:31
So
28:31
my
28:31
dad
28:31
forgot
28:32
about
28:32
the
28:32
article
28:33
and
28:33
he
28:33
continued
28:34
to
28:34
play
28:34
at
28:34
the
28:34
church.
28:35
This
28:35
is
28:35
a
28:35
second
28:36
church
28:36
now.
28:36
He
28:37
continued
28:37
to
28:37
play
28:37
at
28:37
the
28:38
church
28:38
with
28:38
a
28:38
group
28:39
of
28:39
students.
28:40
A
28:40
couple
28:40
of
28:41
months
28:41
after
28:41
that
28:42
article
28:42
was
28:42
published,
28:43
the
28:44
church
28:44
secretary
28:45
buzzed
28:45
his
28:45
office
28:46
to
28:46
let
28:46
him
28:47
know
28:47
that
28:47
he
28:47
had
28:47
a
28:47
phone
28:47
call.
28:48
And
28:49
he
28:49
said,
28:50
okay,
28:50
who's
28:50
it
28:50
from?
28:50
He
28:51
said,
28:51
gary
28:51
something.
28:54
So
28:55
my
28:55
dad
28:55
picked
28:55
up
28:55
the
28:55
phone
28:57
and
28:57
a
28:57
man
28:57
on
28:57
the
28:58
other
28:58
end
28:58
said,
28:58
hi,
28:58
Reverend
28:59
Webster,
29:00
this
29:00
is
29:00
Gary
29:00
Gygax.
29:03
Instead
29:04
of
29:04
a
29:04
cease
29:05
and
29:05
desist
29:05
order
29:06
that
29:07
would
29:07
aim
29:07
squarely
29:08
at
29:08
the
29:08
many
29:08
changes
29:09
that
29:09
he
29:10
and
29:10
his
29:10
players
29:11
made
29:11
to
29:11
the
29:11
cosmology
29:12
and
29:12
the
29:12
ethical
29:13
construction
29:13
of
29:14
the
29:14
game,
29:14
which
29:15
we
29:15
can
29:15
also
29:15
talk
29:15
about,
29:16
Gygax
29:17
actually
29:17
wanted
29:18
to
29:18
talk
29:18
about
29:18
how
29:19
they
29:19
were
29:19
playing.
29:20
He
29:21
thought
29:21
it
29:21
was
29:21
one
29:21
of
29:21
the
29:21
coolest
29:21
things
29:21
he'd
29:22
ever
29:22
heard.
29:23
He
29:23
was
29:23
excited
29:24
about
29:24
the
29:24
variations.
29:25
He
29:25
told
29:26
my
29:26
dad
29:26
several
29:26
times
29:26
about
29:27
how
29:27
the
29:27
rules
29:27
of
29:27
the
29:28
game
29:28
are
29:28
meant
29:28
to
29:28
be
29:28
malleable
29:29
and
29:29
broad
29:29
enough
29:29
to
29:30
allow
29:30
for
29:30
unique
29:31
expressions
29:31
of
29:31
gameplay.
29:33
And
29:34
I
29:34
think
29:34
for
29:35
us,
29:36
40
29:37
years
29:37
later,
29:38
as
29:38
models
29:39
of
29:39
theological
29:39
education
29:40
and
29:40
spiritual
29:41
formation
29:41
undergo
29:42
tremendous
29:43
change.
29:44
Role
29:45
playing
29:45
games
29:45
like
29:45
D
29:45
and
29:46
D,
29:46
because
29:46
of
29:46
that
29:47
malleability,
29:47
because
29:48
of
29:48
that
29:48
broadness,
29:49
because
29:49
of
29:50
that
29:50
inclusive
29:51
and
29:51
encouraging
29:52
gameplay,
29:54
they
29:54
will
29:55
continue
29:55
to
29:55
cultivate
29:56
creativity,
29:57
nurture
29:58
life,
29:59
and
29:59
inspire
29:59
imagination
30:00
for
30:01
the
30:01
life
30:01
of
30:01
the
30:01
world.
30:03
So
30:03
people
30:04
of
30:04
faith,
30:05
people
30:05
of
30:05
spirit
30:06
tend
30:07
to
30:07
dungeons
30:08
for
30:09
you
30:09
can
30:09
find
30:09
vibrant
30:10
allies
30:10
there.
30:12
Players,
30:13
DMs.
30:14
Embrace
30:15
your
30:15
responsibility
30:16
to
30:17
explore
30:17
profound
30:18
depths
30:18
of
30:18
meaning
30:19
in
30:19
your
30:20
game
30:20
world.
30:21
For
30:21
our
30:22
world
30:22
will
30:22
journey
30:23
with
30:23
you.
30:24
And
30:24
with
30:24
that
30:25
adventure
30:26
on.
30:27
Nice
30:28
work.
30:28
All
30:29
right,
30:33
all
30:33
right.
30:34
Thank
30:34
you
30:34
so
30:34
much.
30:35
That's
30:35
so
30:35
cool.
30:38
So
30:38
I
30:38
Don't
30:38
know
30:39
if
30:39
you
30:39
were
30:39
at
30:40
all
30:40
of
30:40
the
30:40
sessions
30:41
that
30:41
have
30:41
been
30:41
going
30:41
on
30:42
at
30:42
beer
30:42
camp
30:42
so
30:43
far,
30:43
but
30:43
this
30:43
brought
30:44
to
30:44
mind
30:44
Iliadilio's
30:45
session
30:45
that
30:45
she
30:45
did
30:46
yesterday.
30:47
And
30:47
I
30:47
was
30:47
struck
30:48
when
30:48
she
30:48
mentioned
30:50
even
30:50
in
30:51
pre
30:51
human
30:52
mammals,
30:52
she
30:53
identified
30:54
playing
30:56
as
30:56
a
30:56
form
30:56
of
30:57
proto
30:57
religion.
30:58
She
30:59
said
31:00
entities
31:00
have
31:01
always
31:01
played
31:02
as
31:03
a
31:03
way
31:03
to
31:03
temporarily
31:04
invite
31:04
each
31:05
other
31:06
into
31:06
a
31:06
different
31:07
inclusive,
31:08
low
31:08
stakes
31:08
space
31:09
where
31:10
we
31:10
can
31:10
figure
31:10
out
31:11
who
31:11
we
31:11
are.
31:11
Yeah,
31:12
man.
31:13
And
31:14
I
31:14
was
31:14
texting
31:15
our
31:15
group
31:15
chat
31:15
instantly.
31:16
I
31:16
said
31:16
we
31:16
should
31:16
get
31:16
Dilio
31:17
to
31:17
play
31:17
Dungeons
31:18
and
31:18
Dragons.
31:19
And
31:19
we
31:19
started
31:20
a
31:20
conversation
31:20
about
31:20
what
31:20
class
31:21
she
31:21
would
31:21
be.
31:21
And
31:22
it
31:22
was
31:22
very
31:22
fun.
31:24
But
31:24
I'm
31:24
curious,
31:24
as
31:25
artificer,
31:27
my
31:27
argument
31:28
was
31:28
that
31:28
she's
31:28
a
31:28
sorcerer,
31:29
but
31:29
her
31:29
patron
31:29
is
31:30
like
31:30
the
31:30
quantum
31:31
omni
31:32
being.
31:32
Oh
31:32
yeah,
31:32
that
31:33
one
31:33
turned
31:33
too.
31:33
That
31:34
one.
31:35
So
31:36
I'm
31:36
curious
31:37
how
31:37
you
31:37
respond
31:38
to
31:38
this.
31:38
And
31:39
just
31:39
as
31:39
you
31:39
think
31:39
of
31:39
that
31:40
concept
31:40
of
31:40
play
31:41
as
31:41
a
31:41
space
31:41
where
31:42
we
31:42
invite
31:42
each
31:42
other
31:43
to
31:43
make
31:43
meaning,
31:44
how
31:44
does
31:45
role
31:46
playing,
31:46
how
31:46
would
31:46
you,
31:47
I
31:47
guess
31:47
compare
31:47
and
31:48
contrast
31:48
that
31:48
to
31:49
saying
31:49
playing
31:50
like
31:51
we're
31:51
just
31:52
wrestling
31:52
or
31:52
we're
31:52
playing
31:53
hopscotch
31:53
or
31:53
we're
31:53
playing
31:54
basketball
31:54
or
31:54
we're
31:55
playing
31:55
Call
31:55
of
31:55
Duty?
31:56
Like
31:56
how
31:56
does,
31:56
how
31:56
does,
31:57
what
31:57
does
31:57
this
31:57
form
31:57
of
31:58
play
31:58
have
31:59
kind
32:00
of
32:00
better
32:00
or
32:01
worse
32:01
than
32:02
other
32:02
forms
32:02
of
32:03
play
32:03
for
32:03
this
32:03
sort
32:04
of
32:05
religious
32:06
meaning
32:06
making
32:07
that
32:07
she
32:07
identified.
32:14
Competition.
32:16
So
32:17
I
32:17
played
32:17
baseball
32:17
for
32:18
16
32:18
years.
32:19
I
32:19
played
32:19
a
32:19
lot.
32:20
Played
32:21
a
32:21
lot.
32:21
And
32:22
I
32:22
love
32:22
the
32:22
game
32:22
and
32:22
I
32:22
still
32:23
love
32:23
to
32:23
play.
32:23
And
32:24
I
32:24
was
32:24
a
32:24
college
32:25
ultimate
32:25
Frisbee
32:26
player.
32:27
And
32:28
all
32:29
of
32:29
those
32:29
playing
32:30
forms
32:32
had
32:32
a
32:32
single
32:33
goal,
32:35
had
32:35
a
32:35
closed
32:36
system,
32:37
if
32:37
you
32:37
will,
32:38
right.
32:39
There
32:39
was
32:39
a
32:39
closedness
32:40
to
32:40
the
32:41
game
32:42
that
32:43
with
32:43
referees,
32:44
with
32:44
referees
32:46
that
32:47
one
32:47
of
32:47
us
32:47
was
32:48
going
32:48
to
32:48
win,
32:48
one
32:48
of
32:48
us
32:48
was
32:48
going
32:49
to
32:49
lose,
32:51
or
32:51
even
32:51
if
32:51
you're
32:52
playing
32:52
soccer
32:52
and
32:52
you
32:52
end
32:52
in
32:53
a
32:53
tie,
32:54
there's
32:55
a
32:55
struggle
32:57
for
32:58
supremacy.
33:01
I
33:02
think
33:02
the
33:02
difference
33:03
in
33:04
role
33:05
play,
33:05
gaming
33:06
play
33:07
is
33:09
the
33:09
open
33:10
cosmology
33:11
that.
33:14
Yes,
33:14
the
33:14
open
33:15
cosmology.
33:16
Any
33:17
teachers
33:17
in
33:18
the
33:18
room?
33:18
So
33:19
there's
33:20
a
33:20
form
33:21
of
33:21
pedagogy
33:21
called
33:22
gamification
33:23
pedagogy
33:23
where
33:24
you
33:24
turn
33:24
lots
33:24
of
33:25
things
33:25
into
33:25
games
33:25
in
33:26
the
33:26
classroom.
33:27
And
33:28
a
33:28
really
33:29
simple
33:29
example
33:29
of
33:29
this
33:30
closed
33:30
kind
33:31
of
33:31
play
33:31
or
33:31
open
33:32
play,
33:33
closed
33:34
play
33:34
would
33:34
be
33:34
like
33:35
CPR
33:36
practice,
33:37
right?
33:38
Like
33:38
I'm
33:38
playing
33:39
winners
33:39
and
33:39
losers,
33:41
right.
33:42
Like
33:42
I'm
33:42
playing
33:43
me
33:43
either
33:43
way.
33:44
I
33:44
love
33:44
that
33:45
I'm
33:45
playing
33:46
on
33:46
this
33:46
mannequin,
33:47
right?
33:48
And
33:50
the
33:50
CPR
33:51
is
33:51
a
33:51
role
33:51
play.
33:52
Like
33:52
I'm
33:53
role
33:53
playing
33:53
as
33:55
the
33:56
lifesaver.
33:58
But
33:59
really
34:00
it's
34:00
not.
34:00
There
34:00
are
34:01
no
34:01
consequences.
34:02
Like
34:02
it's
34:02
a
34:03
plastic
34:03
mannequin
34:03
with
34:04
a,
34:05
with
34:05
a
34:05
little
34:05
bladder
34:06
inside.
34:06
Right.
34:07
But
34:08
for
34:08
this
34:08
kind
34:09
of
34:09
like
34:09
open,
34:11
open
34:12
cosmology,
34:12
non
34:13
competitive
34:14
play,
34:16
there
34:16
actually
34:17
are
34:17
a
34:17
lot
34:17
of
34:17
consequences
34:18
here
34:19
and
34:20
there
34:20
are
34:20
consequences
34:21
in
34:21
the
34:21
game
34:21
world,
34:22
but
34:22
there
34:23
are
34:23
also
34:23
consequences
34:23
at
34:24
the
34:24
table.
34:24
Like
34:25
if
34:25
I'm
34:25
constantly
34:26
trying
34:26
to
34:27
undermine
34:28
every
34:28
action
34:29
will
34:29
takes
34:30
in
34:30
the
34:30
game
34:31
world,
34:31
not
34:31
only
34:32
is
34:32
that
34:32
going
34:32
to
34:32
have
34:34
an
34:34
outcome
34:35
in
34:35
the
34:35
game,
34:36
it
34:36
could
34:36
actually
34:37
really
34:37
redefine
34:38
our
34:38
relationship
34:38
to
34:38
each
34:39
other
34:39
outside
34:39
of
34:39
the
34:39
game
34:41
and
34:41
the
34:42
play
34:42
that
34:42
we
34:43
get.
34:43
I
34:43
think
34:43
in,
34:46
in
34:46
a
34:46
lot
34:46
of
34:46
other
34:47
forms
34:47
of
34:47
play,
34:48
because
34:48
it
34:48
is
34:48
closed
34:49
toward
34:50
one
34:50
single
34:50
particular
34:51
goal,
34:52
it
34:53
doesn't
34:53
have
34:53
that
34:53
kind
34:53
of
34:54
formative
34:56
aspect
34:57
to
34:57
it.
34:58
Can
34:59
I
34:59
do
34:59
it?
34:59
Can
34:59
I
34:59
follow
34:59
up?
35:00
Absolutely.
35:01
So
35:01
one
35:02
thing
35:02
that
35:02
I
35:02
think
35:02
about,
35:03
because
35:03
I've
35:03
been,
35:04
because
35:04
I've
35:04
played
35:05
a
35:05
lot
35:05
of
35:05
D
35:05
and
35:05
D,
35:06
I
35:07
branched
35:07
out.
35:07
I
35:07
go
35:07
to
35:07
like
35:08
a
35:08
meetup
35:08
that
35:08
plays
35:08
indie
35:09
RPGs.
35:09
We
35:10
play
35:10
a
35:10
bunch
35:10
of
35:10
stuff.
35:11
In
35:11
your
35:12
theory
35:13
of
35:13
role
35:14
playing
35:14
as
35:14
pedagogy
35:15
of
35:15
role
35:15
playing
35:16
as
35:16
theological
35:17
education,
35:18
you
35:18
have
35:18
kind
35:18
of
35:18
a
35:19
baked
35:19
in
35:19
assumption
35:20
of
35:20
a
35:20
game
35:21
master
35:21
as
35:22
the
35:22
primary
35:22
like
35:23
teacher.
35:24
There's
35:24
a
35:24
pedagogy
35:25
centered
35:25
on
35:25
the
35:25
dungeon
35:26
master
35:27
who
35:27
is
35:28
teaching
35:28
and
35:28
nurturing
35:29
the
35:29
players.
35:30
There
35:31
are
35:31
other
35:32
systems,
35:32
I
35:32
think
35:32
of
35:33
things
35:33
like,
35:34
of
35:35
stuff
35:35
like
35:35
Powered
35:36
by
35:36
the
35:36
Apocalypse
35:37
type
35:37
games
35:38
where
35:38
there
35:38
is
35:39
still
35:39
a
35:39
game
35:39
master,
35:40
but
35:40
there
35:41
is
35:41
systems
35:41
for
35:42
the
35:42
players
35:42
to
35:43
interact
35:44
with
35:44
the
35:44
universe
35:45
itself
35:45
way
35:45
more
35:46
directly
35:46
than
35:46
Dungeons
35:47
and
35:47
Dragons
35:47
have.
35:48
And
35:48
then
35:48
I
35:49
think
35:49
of
35:49
stuff
35:49
like
35:50
Fiasco
35:51
or
35:51
Microscope
35:51
where
35:52
there
35:52
is
35:52
no
35:52
dungeon
35:53
master.
35:53
Everybody
35:54
is
35:55
collectively
35:56
creating
35:56
this
35:56
story
35:57
and
35:57
refereeing
35:58
together.
36:00
How
36:00
do
36:00
you
36:01
like,
36:01
how
36:01
does
36:01
that
36:01
change?
36:02
How
36:02
does
36:03
this
36:03
interact
36:03
with
36:03
your
36:03
idea
36:04
of
36:04
role
36:04
playing?
36:05
And
36:05
do
36:05
you
36:06
think
36:06
that
36:07
makes
36:07
it
36:07
a
36:08
better
36:08
or
36:08
worse
36:08
or
36:09
different
36:09
kind
36:09
of
36:10
mapping
36:10
onto
36:11
the
36:12
theological
36:13
education
36:13
that
36:13
you're
36:14
talking
36:14
about
36:14
with
36:14
role
36:15
playing?
36:15
Yeah,
36:16
that's
36:16
a
36:17
fantastic
36:17
question.
36:17
So
36:17
one
36:18
of
36:18
the
36:18
reasons
36:18
why
36:18
I'm
36:18
so
36:18
DM
36:19
centric,
36:20
of
36:20
course,
36:20
is
36:21
this
36:22
paper
36:22
comes
36:23
out
36:23
of
36:23
a
36:23
chapter
36:24
that
36:24
my
36:24
dad
36:24
and
36:24
I
36:25
wrote
36:25
together
36:26
for
36:26
a
36:26
book
36:26
that's
36:27
coming
36:27
out
36:27
in
36:27
December
36:28
on
36:28
theology,
36:28
religions
36:29
and
36:29
Dungeons
36:29
and
36:30
Dragons
36:31
in
36:31
honor
36:32
of
36:32
the
36:32
50th
36:32
anniversary
36:33
of
36:33
Dungeons
36:33
and
36:33
Dragons.
36:35
And
36:35
so
36:36
we
36:36
were
36:36
very
36:36
dnd
36:37
focused
36:38
and
36:39
really
36:39
wanted
36:39
to
36:40
do
36:40
some
36:40
auto
36:40
ethnography
36:41
reflection
36:42
for
36:42
my
36:42
dad
36:42
on
36:43
being
36:43
a
36:43
dm.
36:45
That
36:45
said,
36:46
I
36:47
think
36:47
it
36:47
actually
36:47
translates
36:48
to
36:48
the
36:48
other
36:48
games
36:50
pretty
36:50
flawlessly
36:52
because
36:54
the
36:54
DM
36:56
in
36:57
their
36:57
best,
36:58
in
36:59
their
36:59
best
36:59
work
37:00
is
37:01
not
37:02
actually
37:03
different
37:03
from
37:03
the
37:03
players.
37:05
The
37:06
DM
37:06
is
37:06
a
37:07
part
37:07
of
37:07
the
37:07
co
37:07
creative
37:09
relationships
37:10
at
37:10
the
37:10
TABLE
37:11
and
37:12
there
37:13
are
37:13
other
37:13
game
37:14
mechanics
37:14
and
37:14
other
37:14
game
37:15
structures
37:16
that
37:16
just
37:16
lean
37:16
into
37:17
that
37:17
co
37:17
creativity
37:18
more.
37:20
But
37:20
what
37:20
is
37:21
key
37:21
is
37:21
they
37:21
maintain
37:22
the
37:22
cosmological
37:23
openness,
37:25
they
37:25
maintain
37:25
the
37:25
possibility
37:26
of
37:26
the
37:26
future,
37:27
they
37:27
maintain
37:28
the
37:28
consequential
37:29
action
37:30
in
37:30
the
37:30
present.
37:31
And
37:32
so
37:32
I
37:32
think
37:33
the
37:33
reliance
37:33
on
37:34
DMs
37:34
in
37:35
this
37:35
is
37:36
D
37:36
and
37:36
D
37:36
specific.
37:37
Yeah,
37:37
but
37:40
I
37:40
don't
37:40
think
37:40
it
37:41
loses
37:42
in
37:42
translation
37:42
to
37:43
other
37:43
games.
37:43
Yeah,
37:44
it's
37:44
a
37:44
great
37:44
question.
37:45
I
37:46
love
37:47
your
37:47
paper.
37:47
And
37:48
as
37:49
a
37:50
pastor
37:51
entrusted
37:51
with
37:52
taking
37:52
care
37:52
of
37:52
a
37:52
community,
37:53
shepherding
37:53
community,
37:54
what
37:54
intrigues
37:55
me
37:55
with
37:56
of
37:56
course
37:56
I
37:57
resonate
37:57
with
37:57
the
37:57
non
37:57
anxious
37:58
presence.
37:59
And
37:59
when
38:00
I'm
38:00
flying,
38:01
I'm
38:01
keeping
38:02
my
38:02
eye
38:02
on
38:02
the
38:02
flight
38:02
attendant.
38:03
If
38:03
they're
38:03
freaking
38:03
out,
38:04
I'm
38:04
going
38:04
to
38:04
freak
38:04
out.
38:04
But
38:05
if
38:05
they're
38:05
like
38:05
cool
38:06
during
38:06
this
38:06
turbulence,
38:07
I'm
38:07
going
38:07
to
38:07
be
38:08
cool
38:08
too.
38:08
But
38:09
the
38:09
words
38:09
that
38:10
I
38:10
associate
38:11
with
38:11
D
38:11
and
38:11
D,
38:12
where
38:12
I've
38:12
really
38:12
been
38:13
kind
38:13
of
38:13
resonating
38:14
with
38:14
and
38:14
collecting
38:15
or
38:15
thinking
38:16
through
38:16
with
38:16
beer
38:17
camp,
38:17
is
38:17
this
38:17
idea
38:18
of
38:18
play,
38:18
of
38:19
improv,
38:20
of
38:21
collaborative
38:22
storytelling,
38:23
imagination,
38:24
us
38:25
telling
38:25
a
38:26
story,
38:26
theater
38:26
of
38:26
the
38:26
mind,
38:27
of
38:27
us
38:27
telling
38:27
a
38:27
story
38:28
together.
38:28
And
38:28
you
38:29
don't
38:29
know
38:29
what's
38:30
going
38:30
to
38:30
happen.
38:30
The
38:30
DMA
38:31
knows
38:31
some
38:31
things
38:31
but.
38:32
But
38:32
yeah,
38:32
like
38:32
you
38:33
said,
38:33
it's
38:33
an
38:33
open
38:33
ended
38:34
story
38:34
that
38:34
could
38:34
go
38:35
in
38:35
different
38:35
directions,
38:35
different
38:36
timelines,
38:36
alternate
38:37
time,
38:37
multiverse,
38:37
whatever,
38:38
but
38:38
there's
38:39
these
38:39
possibilities
38:39
and
38:40
so
38:40
I
38:40
really
38:41
resonate
38:41
with
38:42
the
38:43
story
38:43
of
38:43
your
38:44
dad
38:44
getting
38:45
a
38:45
call
38:45
from
38:45
Gary,
38:46
which
38:46
is
38:46
a
38:47
freaking
38:47
cool
38:47
story
38:48
but
38:48
I
38:48
can
38:48
imagine
38:49
getting
38:49
a
38:49
call
38:49
from
38:49
like
38:49
my
38:50
bishop
38:50
who's
38:50
like
38:51
will,
38:51
we
38:51
need
38:52
to
38:52
talk.
38:52
And
38:52
I'm
38:52
like
38:53
what
38:53
did
38:53
I
38:54
do
38:54
wrong?
38:55
We
38:55
had
38:55
theology
38:56
beer
38:56
camp
38:56
or
38:56
we're
38:56
talking
38:57
faith
38:57
and
38:57
science,
38:57
or
38:58
you're
38:58
doing
38:58
this
38:58
like
38:59
God
38:59
Loves
38:59
Geeks
39:00
club,
39:00
like
39:00
what
39:00
I
39:01
need
39:01
to.
39:01
But
39:02
instead
39:02
of
39:02
like
39:02
shutting
39:03
me
39:03
down,
39:03
cease
39:03
and
39:04
desist.
39:04
But
39:04
open
39:05
like
39:05
tell
39:05
me
39:05
more.
39:06
What
39:06
is
39:06
happening?
39:07
What
39:07
new
39:07
life
39:08
is
39:08
emerging?
39:09
How,
39:09
how
39:09
is
39:09
this
39:10
helping
39:10
you?
39:10
I
39:10
give
39:10
you
39:11
permission
39:11
to
39:11
keep
39:12
going
39:12
with
39:12
this
39:12
because
39:13
who
39:13
knows
39:13
what
39:13
could
39:13
happen
39:14
and
39:14
what
39:14
the
39:14
spirit
39:15
could
39:15
do
39:15
in
39:15
these
39:15
things.
39:15
So,
39:16
and
39:16
I
39:16
guess
39:16
it's
39:17
not
39:17
more
39:17
of
39:17
a
39:17
question
39:18
of
39:18
more
39:18
of
39:18
you
39:19
know,
39:19
thing,
39:19
but,
39:19
but
39:19
in
39:20
terms
39:20
of
39:20
this
39:20
idea
39:20
of
39:20
like
39:21
collaborative
39:21
storytelling,
39:22
partnering
39:22
on
39:23
the
39:23
journey,
39:23
the
39:23
process
39:24
together,
39:25
you
39:26
know,
39:26
you
39:26
wrote
39:26
your
39:27
paper
39:27
on
39:28
faith
39:28
formation,
39:29
teaching
39:29
Sunday
39:29
school
39:29
or
39:30
youth
39:30
groups,
39:30
but
39:30
also
39:31
theological
39:31
education
39:32
in
39:32
the
39:32
seminary.
39:33
But
39:33
what
39:33
if
39:34
we
39:34
did
39:35
more
39:35
collaborative
39:36
improv,
39:37
story
39:37
play?
39:39
How
39:39
would
39:39
the
39:40
church
39:40
be
39:40
different?
39:40
How
39:40
would,
39:41
how
39:42
would
39:42
our,
39:42
our
39:42
communities
39:43
we
39:43
take
39:43
care
39:43
of
39:44
and
39:44
relationships
39:44
that
39:45
we're
39:45
entrusted
39:45
with?
39:46
How
39:46
would
39:46
they
39:46
be.
39:47
Be
39:47
different.
39:48
Moving
39:48
forward
39:49
in
39:49
the
39:49
spirit
39:50
of
39:50
theology,
39:51
beer
39:51
camp
39:51
and
39:52
what
39:52
that
39:52
looks
39:52
like
39:52
for
39:53
future
39:53
church.
39:54
Yeah.
39:55
Oh,
39:55
that's
39:55
a
39:56
tremendous
39:56
question.
39:58
There
39:58
are
39:59
five
39:59
different
40:00
ways
40:00
I
40:00
want
40:00
to
40:00
go,
40:00
but
40:00
I'm
40:01
only
40:01
going
40:01
to
40:01
pick
40:02
two.
40:03
So
40:03
one
40:03
is,
40:05
I
40:05
think
40:05
one
40:05
of
40:06
the
40:06
things
40:06
that's
40:06
really
40:07
cool
40:08
about
40:09
D
40:09
and
40:09
D
40:09
and
40:09
role
40:09
playing,
40:10
gaming
40:10
and
40:11
improv
40:12
is
40:12
that
40:12
we
40:12
realize
40:13
that
40:13
storytelling
40:14
is
40:14
also
40:15
play.
40:16
That
40:16
it's
40:17
not
40:17
that
40:17
we
40:18
play
40:18
over
40:18
here
40:19
in
40:19
a
40:19
story.
40:20
Then
40:20
we
40:21
go,
40:21
that's
40:21
what
40:21
we
40:21
forget.
40:21
About
40:21
scripture,
40:22
you
40:22
know,
40:23
playing
40:23
with
40:23
scripture.
40:24
Then
40:24
we
40:24
go
40:24
have
40:24
story
40:25
time,
40:26
then
40:26
we
40:27
go
40:27
play
40:27
in
40:27
a
40:27
story.
40:28
And
40:28
I
40:28
think
40:29
that's
40:29
the
40:30
first
40:30
direction
40:30
I
40:30
would
40:31
go,
40:31
is
40:31
that
40:32
it
40:32
can
40:32
help
40:33
us
40:35
re.
40:36
Encounter
40:37
the
40:37
Bible
40:37
as
40:37
a
40:38
library
40:39
of
40:39
stories,
40:41
not
40:41
a
40:41
book.
40:42
Right.
40:43
The
40:43
Bible
40:43
is
40:43
not
40:43
a
40:44
book.
40:44
It's
40:44
a
40:44
library
40:45
of
40:45
books.
40:46
And
40:47
it's
40:47
a
40:47
library
40:47
of
40:48
books
40:48
that
40:48
communicate
40:49
stories
40:49
and
40:50
invite
40:50
us
40:50
into
40:51
stories
40:52
that
40:52
are
40:52
not
40:53
our
40:53
own.
40:53
I
40:54
mean,
40:54
what
40:54
other
40:55
definition
40:55
of
40:55
grace
40:55
do
40:56
you
40:56
need?
40:56
It
40:56
invites
40:56
us
40:57
into
40:57
stories
40:57
that
40:57
are
40:57
not
40:58
our
40:58
own
40:58
and
40:59
gives
40:59
meaning.
41:01
So
41:02
I
41:02
think
41:02
it
41:02
can
41:03
change
41:03
our
41:03
relationship
41:04
to
41:04
scripture.
41:05
Instead
41:05
of
41:05
being
41:05
this
41:06
cudgel
41:07
and
41:07
this
41:07
top
41:08
down
41:08
book,
41:09
warhammer.
41:10
Fixed,
41:11
unfixed.
41:11
Is
41:12
it
41:12
an
41:12
open
41:12
canon,
41:13
a
41:13
closed
41:13
canon?
41:16
Is
41:16
it
41:16
useful
41:17
in
41:18
every
41:19
decision
41:19
you
41:19
make
41:19
in
41:20
life
41:20
or
41:20
the
41:20
authoritative.
41:21
That's
41:21
actually
41:22
not
41:22
the
41:22
question.
41:23
Right.
41:24
I
41:24
think
41:24
the
41:24
question
41:25
is
41:26
how
41:26
do
41:26
we
41:27
play
41:27
well
41:29
with
41:29
the
41:29
story
41:30
and
41:31
how
41:31
do
41:31
we
41:31
play
41:31
well
41:31
with
41:32
one
41:32
another
41:32
through
41:32
the
41:32
story?
41:33
That's
41:33
the
41:33
first
41:33
direction
41:34
I
41:34
would
41:34
go.
41:34
The
41:34
second
41:34
direction
41:35
I
41:35
would
41:35
go,
41:36
and
41:36
this
41:37
is
41:37
for
41:38
those
41:38
of
41:38
us
41:39
who
41:39
are
41:39
in
41:40
more
41:40
like
41:41
mainline
41:41
traditions
41:42
or
41:42
Catholic
41:43
traditions.
41:45
It
41:45
breaks
41:47
down
41:48
a
41:49
clericalism
41:50
that
41:50
divides
41:51
the
41:52
ordained
41:52
from
41:53
the
41:53
laity
41:55
in
41:56
what
41:57
has
41:58
needed
41:58
to
41:58
happen
41:59
for
41:59
a
41:59
long
41:59
time.
42:00
Clerichood
42:01
of
42:01
all
42:01
believers.
42:02
Is
42:02
that
42:02
what
42:02
you
42:02
just
42:02
said?
42:03
No,
42:04
actually,
42:05
still.
42:05
Still
42:06
Methodist
42:06
enough
42:06
that
42:06
I'm
42:07
not
42:07
going
42:07
that
42:07
far.
42:08
You
42:08
can't
42:08
all
42:08
play
42:09
clerics.
42:09
That's
42:09
not
42:09
balanced.
42:10
We
42:10
can't
42:10
all
42:10
play
42:10
clerics.
42:11
But
42:11
what
42:12
it
42:12
actually
42:12
does
42:12
and
42:13
process
42:13
theology
42:14
helps
42:14
us
42:14
with
42:14
this.
42:15
What
42:15
it
42:15
actually
42:16
does
42:16
is
42:16
it
42:17
takes
42:17
us
42:18
out
42:18
of
42:19
thinking
42:19
that
42:19
the
42:20
difference
42:20
between
42:21
a
42:21
cleric
42:22
and
42:22
a
42:22
layperson
42:24
is
42:24
a
42:24
difference
42:25
between
42:25
the
42:25
substance
42:27
cleric
42:28
and
42:28
the
42:29
substance
42:29
lay.
42:31
Instead,
42:32
we
42:33
are
42:33
all
42:34
journeying
42:35
as
42:35
a
42:35
body
42:35
together.
42:36
And
42:36
there
42:36
are
42:37
functions
42:37
that
42:38
we
42:38
all
42:38
are
42:38
called
42:39
to
42:39
and
42:39
gifted
42:40
to
42:40
fill.
42:41
And
42:41
there
42:41
are
42:42
functions
42:42
that
42:42
we
42:43
live
42:43
into.
42:43
And
42:44
ordained
42:44
ministry
42:45
then
42:45
is
42:46
not
42:46
ordained
42:47
to
42:47
a
42:47
status
42:48
above
42:49
laity.
42:50
It
42:51
is
42:51
ordained
42:51
to
42:52
a
42:52
function
42:53
within
42:53
the
42:54
laity.
42:54
Almost
42:55
like
42:55
a
42:55
body
42:55
with
42:55
different.
42:56
Almost
42:56
like
42:56
a
42:57
body.
42:57
And
42:59
what
42:59
should
43:00
the.
43:00
Anyway,
43:01
I
43:01
was
43:01
Going
43:01
to
43:01
make
43:01
some
43:01
analogy
43:02
about
43:02
the
43:02
hand
43:02
to
43:02
the
43:03
foot,
43:03
the
43:03
foot
43:03
to
43:03
the
43:04
head.
43:04
Yeah,
43:04
yeah,
43:05
yeah,
43:05
yeah.
43:05
Body
43:05
of
43:06
Christ.
43:06
I
43:06
think
43:06
when
43:06
we
43:07
play
43:07
like
43:08
this,
43:08
we
43:09
actually
43:09
do
43:09
realize
43:09
that,
43:10
like,
43:11
look,
43:12
Paul
43:12
might
43:13
have
43:13
gotten
43:13
that
43:13
one
43:14
right.
43:14
Oh,
43:15
and
43:15
not
43:16
only
43:16
might
43:16
Paul
43:16
have
43:17
gotten
43:17
that
43:17
one
43:17
right,
43:17
he
43:17
might
43:18
have
43:18
gotten
43:18
that
43:18
one
43:18
right
43:19
because
43:20
he's
43:20
leaning
43:20
into
43:21
something
43:21
we
43:21
all
43:22
recognize
43:22
very
43:23
well,
43:23
and
43:23
that's
43:23
the
43:23
organicness
43:25
of
43:25
our
43:25
bodiedness.
43:27
Like
43:27
our
43:28
bodies
43:28
matter.
43:29
And
43:29
we
43:29
recognize
43:30
that
43:30
our
43:30
bodies
43:30
matter
43:31
in
43:31
the
43:31
church
43:32
because
43:32
of
43:32
how
43:32
we
43:33
function
43:33
in
43:33
relationship
43:34
with
43:34
each
43:34
other,
43:35
not
43:35
because
43:35
of
43:35
how
43:36
we're
43:37
statically
43:37
lifted
43:38
above
43:38
or
43:39
pushed
43:39
below
43:40
others.
43:40
I
43:41
want
43:41
Samantha
43:41
to
43:41
follow
43:42
up,
43:42
but
43:43
also
43:43
we
43:43
are,
43:43
in
43:44
a
43:44
moment,
43:44
going
43:44
to
43:44
take
43:44
some
43:45
questions.
43:45
If
43:45
you
43:45
want
43:46
to
43:46
share
43:47
a
43:47
thought
43:47
question.
43:48
Want
43:48
to
43:48
engage
43:49
with
43:49
that.
43:49
Kim
43:50
over
43:50
here
43:50
has
43:50
a
43:51
mic,
43:51
and
43:51
you
43:51
can
43:51
walk
43:51
over
43:52
here
43:52
and
43:53
share
43:53
because
43:54
it's
43:54
just
43:54
not
43:54
long
43:54
enough
43:54
to
43:55
take
43:55
out
43:55
to
43:55
everybody.
43:55
So
43:56
if
43:56
you
43:56
have
43:56
a
43:56
question,
43:56
thought,
43:56
those
43:56
kind
43:57
of
43:57
things,
43:57
I'll
43:57
do
43:57
one.
43:57
More
43:58
while
43:58
people
43:58
think,
43:59
go
43:59
for
43:59
it.
44:00
And
44:00
I
44:00
think
44:00
we
44:00
foreshadowed
44:01
this
44:01
a
44:01
little
44:02
bit,
44:02
but
44:02
I
44:02
want
44:02
to
44:02
dig
44:02
into
44:03
it.
44:04
We
44:05
mentioned
44:05
at
44:05
the
44:06
beginning,
44:06
and
44:06
I
44:06
mentioned
44:06
in
44:07
my
44:07
intro,
44:07
and
44:07
you
44:07
mentioned
44:08
at
44:08
the
44:08
beginning
44:08
of
44:08
the
44:08
paper,
44:09
because
44:09
a
44:09
lot
44:09
of.
44:10
If
44:10
you're
44:10
in
44:11
religious
44:12
spaces,
44:12
you've
44:13
heard
44:13
of
44:13
Dungeons
44:13
and
44:13
Dragons
44:14
at
44:14
some
44:14
point
44:14
in
44:15
the
44:15
context
44:15
of
44:15
a
44:15
thing
44:16
we
44:16
were
44:16
once,
44:16
like,
44:17
real
44:17
scared
44:17
of.
44:18
I
44:19
remember
44:19
I
44:19
bought
44:19
the
44:19
computer
44:20
game
44:20
Neverwinter
44:20
Nights,
44:21
and
44:21
my
44:21
mom
44:22
noticed
44:22
the
44:22
Dungeons
44:22
and
44:23
Dragons
44:23
logo
44:23
on
44:23
the
44:23
back,
44:23
and
44:24
she's
44:24
like,
44:24
is
44:24
this
44:24
okay?
44:25
And
44:25
I
44:25
had
44:26
to
44:26
make
44:26
up
44:26
a
44:26
defense
44:27
for
44:27
why
44:27
I
44:27
should
44:27
be
44:27
able
44:27
to
44:27
play
44:28
Never
44:28
Winter
44:28
Nights.
44:30
But
44:30
so
44:31
I
44:31
guess
44:31
my.
44:31
My
44:31
question
44:31
to
44:31
you
44:32
is,
44:32
as
44:32
you
44:32
thought
44:33
through
44:33
this,
44:33
as
44:33
you've
44:34
played
44:34
it
44:36
at
44:37
face
44:37
value,
44:38
the
44:38
church's
44:38
opposition
44:39
to
44:40
Dungeons
44:41
and
44:41
Dragons
44:42
historically
44:42
was
44:43
there's
44:43
wizards
44:43
and
44:44
there's
44:44
devils,
44:44
and
44:45
that's
44:45
evil.
44:47
Do
44:47
you
44:47
take
44:48
that
44:48
opposition
44:49
at
44:49
face
44:49
value?
44:50
Or
44:50
if
44:50
you
44:50
don't,
44:52
what
44:52
do
44:52
you
44:52
think
44:52
the
44:53
institutional
44:54
church
44:54
was
44:54
actually
44:55
scared
44:55
of
44:55
when
44:56
people
44:56
were
44:56
getting
44:56
into
44:57
Dungeons
44:57
and
44:57
Dragons?
44:58
I
44:58
love
44:58
that
44:58
question
44:59
so
44:59
much.
44:59
What
44:59
were
45:00
they
45:00
scared
45:00
of?
45:05
I've
45:05
got
45:05
a
45:05
quote.
45:06
Oh,
45:06
all
45:07
right.
45:10
In
45:11
1984,
45:13
Jack
45:14
Chick,
45:15
those
45:15
of
45:15
you
45:16
who.
45:16
Those
45:17
of
45:17
you
45:17
who
45:17
may
45:17
have
45:17
been
45:18
around
45:18
in
45:19
the
45:20
D
45:20
and
45:20
d
45:21
world
45:22
in
45:22
84
45:23
may
45:23
remember
45:23
that
45:23
Jack
45:24
Chick
45:24
wrote
45:25
a
45:25
tractor
45:26
that
45:27
claimed
45:27
that
45:28
Dungeons
45:28
and
45:28
Dragons
45:29
led
45:29
to
45:29
suicide
45:31
and
45:32
Goddess
45:32
worship.
45:35
That's
45:35
what
45:36
they
45:36
were
45:36
afraid
45:36
of,
45:37
the
45:37
women.
45:38
But
45:39
I
45:40
want
45:40
to
45:41
make
45:41
a
45:41
clarification.
45:43
It
45:43
wasn't
45:43
the
45:44
institutional
45:44
church
45:45
in
45:45
the
45:45
sense
45:46
of
45:46
mainline
45:46
American
45:47
Protestantism
45:50
the
45:51
way
45:51
that
45:51
the
45:52
Satanic
45:52
panic,
45:52
and
45:53
I'm
45:53
not
45:53
a
45:53
scholar
45:53
on
45:53
the
45:54
Satanic
45:54
panic,
45:54
though
45:55
that
45:55
doesn't
45:55
stop
45:55
most
45:55
of
45:56
us
45:56
from
45:56
saying
45:56
things.
46:01
The
46:02
way
46:02
that
46:02
the
46:02
religious
46:03
right
46:03
and
46:04
the
46:04
Moral
46:04
Majority
46:06
effectively
46:08
used
46:09
an
46:10
other
46:12
to
46:12
gain
46:13
credence
46:14
with
46:15
parents
46:18
was
46:18
we're
46:19
trying
46:19
to
46:19
protect
46:20
your
46:20
kids
46:21
from
46:22
thinking
46:22
that
46:22
death
46:23
is
46:24
an
46:25
okay
46:25
option
46:27
in
46:27
the
46:28
face
46:28
of
46:32
adventure,
46:33
stress
46:34
and
46:35
the
46:35
world
46:35
and
46:36
being.
46:36
Being
46:37
a
46:37
suburban
46:38
mall
46:38
rat
46:38
Teen
46:39
in
46:39
1986.
46:40
Right.
46:42
And
46:44
by
46:44
claiming
46:45
that
46:45
they
46:46
were
46:46
actually
46:46
looking
46:47
out
46:47
for
46:47
the
46:47
safety
46:48
of
46:48
the
46:48
children.
46:49
Aren't
46:49
they
46:49
always?
46:50
Aren't
46:50
they
46:51
always?
46:51
Yeah.
46:51
By
46:51
claiming
46:52
they're
46:52
looking
46:52
out
46:52
for
46:53
the
46:53
safety
46:53
of
46:53
the
46:53
children,
46:54
they're
46:55
able
46:55
to
46:56
gain
46:56
a
46:57
particular
46:57
kind
46:58
of
46:58
foothold
47:00
that
47:01
is
47:01
extremely
47:02
low
47:02
stakes
47:03
if
47:04
they're
47:04
wrong.
47:05
Because
47:06
if
47:06
they're
47:06
wrong,
47:06
they
47:07
just
47:07
go
47:07
to
47:07
another
47:07
one.
47:08
Right.
47:09
And
47:09
so
47:09
this
47:09
is,
47:09
I
47:09
think
47:10
one
47:10
of
47:10
the
47:10
things
47:10
that
47:10
my
47:10
dad
47:11
encountered
47:11
with
47:11
this
47:11
article
47:12
and
47:12
why
47:12
the
47:12
article
47:12
was
47:13
written
47:13
the
47:13
way
47:13
it
47:13
was,
47:13
was
47:14
my
47:14
dad
47:14
was
47:14
the
47:14
pastor,
47:15
the
47:15
associate
47:15
pastor
47:16
at
47:16
a
47:16
United
47:17
Methodist
47:17
church
47:18
in
47:18
Decatur,
47:19
Alabama,
47:20
which
47:20
is
47:20
a
47:21
town
47:21
at
47:22
the
47:22
time
47:22
run
47:23
by
47:23
the
47:23
Church
47:23
of
47:24
Christ.
47:25
Right.
47:25
And
47:26
we're
47:26
talking
47:26
like
47:26
the
47:26
no
47:27
instrument
47:27
Church
47:27
of
47:27
Christ,
47:28
Church
47:28
of
47:28
Christ.
47:30
And
47:31
so
47:31
that,
47:32
that
47:32
dichotomy,
47:33
it
47:33
wasn't
47:34
just
47:34
that
47:34
it
47:34
was
47:34
a
47:35
minister
47:35
who
47:36
was
47:36
playing
47:36
this
47:36
game
47:36
with
47:36
the
47:36
kids.
47:37
It
47:37
was,
47:37
it
47:37
was
47:38
a
47:38
Methodist
47:38
minister.
47:38
It
47:39
was
47:39
a,
47:39
it
47:39
was
47:39
a
47:40
main,
47:42
it
47:42
was
47:42
a
47:42
main
47:43
mainline
47:43
denomination
47:45
minister.
47:46
Right.
47:46
And
47:47
so
47:47
I
47:47
think
47:47
there's
47:47
a
47:48
really
47:48
important
47:48
divide
47:49
there
47:49
to
47:49
make
47:49
between
47:49
like
47:50
an
47:50
institutional
47:51
mainline
47:52
American
47:53
church
47:53
and
47:54
the
47:55
way
47:55
that
47:55
the
47:55
Moral
47:56
Majority
47:57
really
47:57
did
47:58
try
47:58
to
47:58
use
47:59
protect
47:59
the
47:59
kids
48:00
language.
48:00
Quick,
48:00
quick
48:01
follow
48:01
up.
48:01
And
48:01
just
48:02
as
48:02
like
48:02
a
48:03
pastor
48:03
of
48:03
a
48:03
church
48:03
and
48:03
things,
48:04
most
48:04
of
48:04
the
48:04
times.
48:04
I
48:04
see.
48:05
And
48:05
when
48:05
our,
48:05
with
48:05
our
48:05
work
48:06
with
48:06
faith
48:06
and
48:06
science
48:06
or
48:07
faith
48:07
and
48:07
geek
48:07
stuff,
48:08
most
48:08
of
48:08
the
48:09
time
48:09
when
48:09
churches
48:10
react.
48:10
Yeah.
48:11
What
48:11
are
48:11
they
48:11
scared
48:12
of?
48:12
The
48:12
loss
48:13
of
48:13
influence
48:14
and
48:14
power.
48:15
So
48:15
if
48:15
they
48:15
see
48:16
something
48:16
that's
48:16
more
48:16
popular
48:17
than
48:17
me
48:17
or
48:18
getting
48:18
more
48:18
attention
48:18
than
48:19
me,
48:19
I'm
48:20
going
48:20
to
48:20
get
48:20
defensive
48:20
and
48:21
like,
48:21
we
48:21
got
48:21
to
48:21
tear
48:21
that
48:22
down.
48:22
So
48:23
same
48:23
way,
48:23
like,
48:23
I'm
48:23
going
48:23
to
48:24
lose
48:24
funding,
48:24
I'm
48:25
going
48:25
to
48:25
lose
48:25
power
48:25
and
48:25
influence.
48:26
And
48:26
so
48:26
is
48:26
that
48:27
the
48:27
way
48:27
of
48:27
Christ?
48:28
No.
48:28
So,
48:29
like,
48:29
to
48:30
think
48:30
through
48:30
deeply,
48:31
what
48:31
am
48:31
I
48:31
really
48:31
scared
48:32
of
48:32
is
48:33
the
48:33
question
48:33
that
48:33
we
48:33
should
48:34
ask
48:34
whenever
48:34
we
48:34
have
48:34
like
48:35
a
48:35
defensive
48:35
response
48:36
to
48:36
anything
48:36
that
48:36
we're
48:37
going
48:37
on.
48:37
Yeah.
48:38
So,
48:38
yeah.
48:39
Like
48:39
that's.
48:40
Yeah.
48:40
Resonate
48:41
with
48:41
that
48:41
a
48:41
lot.
48:41
Cool
48:42
questions.
48:42
Let's
48:43
go
48:43
for
48:43
it.
48:44
Hi.
48:46
So
48:47
I
48:47
guess
48:47
my
48:47
question
48:47
is
48:48
I've
48:48
been
48:49
in
48:49
Role
48:49
playing
48:49
game
48:50
spaces
48:50
for
48:50
a
48:50
little
48:51
while.
48:51
At
48:51
this
48:51
point,
48:52
a
48:52
big
48:52
thing
48:52
that
48:53
comes
48:53
up
48:53
about
48:54
D
48:54
and
48:54
D
48:54
in
48:54
particular,
48:55
at
48:56
least
48:56
when
48:56
it
48:56
comes
48:56
to
48:57
questions
48:57
of
48:58
inclusion
48:58
and
48:59
progressiveness,
48:59
is
49:00
that
49:00
it's
49:01
a
49:01
game
49:01
that
49:01
kind
49:01
of
49:02
wants
49:02
you
49:03
to
49:03
encourage
49:04
sort
49:04
of
49:04
a
49:04
pseudo
49:05
colonialist
49:05
approach
49:06
to
49:06
adventure.
49:07
I,
49:07
you
49:08
know,
49:08
raiding
49:08
tombs
49:09
of
49:09
people
49:09
that
49:10
belong
49:10
to
49:10
you,
49:10
etc.
49:11
Etc.
49:12
So
49:12
I
49:12
was
49:13
just
49:13
kind
49:13
of
49:13
curious
49:13
about,
49:14
like,
49:15
what
49:15
does,
49:16
what
49:16
does
49:16
a
49:17
playgroup
49:18
build
49:19
on
49:19
in
49:20
that
49:20
kind
49:20
of
49:20
situation
49:21
or
49:22
with
49:22
this
49:22
text
49:23
or
49:23
if
49:23
it's
49:24
better
49:24
to
49:24
kind
49:24
of
49:25
work
49:25
their
49:25
way
49:25
around
49:26
it?
49:26
I
49:26
guess
49:26
that's
49:26
kind
49:26
of
49:27
the
49:27
question
49:27
I'm
49:27
coming
49:27
from.
49:29
That's
49:29
a
49:29
fantastic
49:30
question.
49:31
And
49:32
in
49:33
Dungeons
49:34
and
49:34
Dragons
49:34
in
49:34
particular,
49:35
as
49:35
some
49:35
of
49:36
you
49:36
who've
49:36
played
49:37
earlier
49:38
editions
49:38
may
49:38
remember,
49:40
Gygax
49:41
and
49:41
the
49:41
other
49:41
editors
49:42
were
49:42
really
49:42
committed
49:43
to
49:43
biological
49:43
essentialism
49:45
and
49:46
really
49:46
committed
49:46
to
49:47
racial
49:47
essentialism,
49:48
that
49:48
there
49:48
were
49:48
particular
49:49
traits
49:50
that
49:50
particular
49:50
races
49:51
had,
49:53
like
49:53
evil
49:54
or
49:54
not,
49:54
well,
49:55
being
49:56
evil
49:56
or
49:56
not,
49:56
or
49:57
even
49:57
advantage
49:58
disadvantage,
49:59
right?
49:59
Like
50:00
elves
50:00
and
50:00
dwarves.
50:01
What
50:01
do
50:01
they
50:01
have
50:02
in
50:02
common
50:02
that
50:02
humans
50:03
can't
50:03
do?
50:04
See
50:04
in
50:04
the
50:04
dark,
50:05
right?
50:06
But
50:06
the,
50:07
the
50:08
norm
50:09
was
50:09
always
50:09
the
50:10
human,
50:10
right?
50:11
The
50:11
human.
50:11
If
50:12
you
50:12
played
50:12
a
50:12
human,
50:13
all
50:13
of
50:13
your
50:13
modifiers
50:14
in
50:14
the
50:15
early
50:15
stage
50:15
were
50:16
zero,
50:16
right?
50:18
Your
50:18
advantages
50:18
did
50:19
not
50:19
exist
50:20
also,
50:21
though
50:21
your
50:21
disadvantages
50:22
didn't
50:22
exist.
50:23
So
50:24
that
50:24
is
50:25
being
50:27
expunged
50:28
in
50:28
subsequent
50:29
editions,
50:30
right,
50:30
in
50:30
the
50:30
formal
50:31
literature,
50:32
but
50:32
it's
50:33
also
50:33
being
50:34
worked
50:34
out
50:35
in
50:35
gaming
50:36
groups
50:36
themselves.
50:36
And
50:36
this
50:37
is,
50:37
I
50:37
think,
50:37
what's
50:37
really
50:38
important
50:38
for
50:39
playing
50:40
as
50:41
a
50:41
practice
50:41
of
50:42
nurture
50:43
of
50:43
who's
50:43
at.
50:44
Of
50:44
your
50:44
relationships
50:45
with
50:45
the
50:45
people
50:45
at
50:45
the
50:46
table
50:46
is
50:48
as
50:48
long
50:49
as
50:51
playing
50:52
these
50:52
games
50:53
is
50:53
an
50:54
attempt
50:54
to
50:54
exercise
50:55
some
50:55
strongman
50:56
fantasy,
50:57
we're
50:58
not
50:58
actually
50:59
going
50:59
to
50:59
understand
51:00
the
51:00
game.
51:01
We're
51:01
not
51:01
actually
51:01
going
51:02
to
51:02
understand
51:02
the
51:03
spiritual
51:03
growth.
51:03
We're
51:03
not
51:03
actually
51:04
going
51:04
to
51:04
live
51:05
into
51:05
a
51:05
better
51:05
relationship
51:06
with
51:06
each
51:06
other.
51:07
And
51:08
just
51:09
quite
51:09
frankly,
51:09
the
51:09
freedom
51:10
and
51:10
the
51:10
creativity
51:11
that
51:11
are
51:11
at
51:12
the
51:12
core
51:12
of
51:12
this
51:13
game
51:13
have
51:13
no
51:14
room
51:14
for
51:14
biological
51:15
essentialism.
51:16
It
51:16
actually
51:16
doesn't
51:17
work
51:17
metaphysically,
51:20
and
51:21
that's
51:21
been
51:21
admitted.
51:22
So
51:22
I
51:23
think
51:23
one
51:23
of
51:23
the
51:23
things
51:24
that's
51:24
really
51:24
important
51:25
then
51:26
is
51:26
with
51:27
storytelling,
51:28
taking
51:29
other
51:30
gaming
51:31
communities
51:32
stories
51:33
seriously,
51:34
listening
51:35
to
51:35
other
51:35
gaming
51:36
communities,
51:36
and
51:36
learning
51:37
from
51:37
other
51:37
gaming
51:38
communities
51:38
and
51:38
how
51:38
they
51:38
tell
51:39
their
51:39
stories.
51:39
And
51:40
like
51:41
y'all,
51:42
high
51:42
fantasy.
51:43
Nick
51:44
and
51:44
I
51:44
have
51:44
talked
51:44
about
51:44
this
51:44
with
51:45
the
51:45
Rings
51:45
of
51:45
Power
51:45
stuff.
51:46
High
51:46
fantasy
51:47
fandoms
51:48
have
51:48
real
51:48
toxic
51:49
elements,
51:49
but
51:49
high
51:49
fantasy
51:50
fandoms
51:50
also
51:50
have
51:51
really
51:51
cool,
51:51
creative,
51:52
integrative
51:55
spaces.
51:56
And
51:56
when
51:57
we
51:57
read
51:58
the
51:58
stories
51:58
and
51:58
take
51:59
the
51:59
stories
51:59
seriously
52:00
and
52:00
try
52:00
to
52:01
learn
52:01
from
52:01
them,
52:02
it
52:02
can
52:03
expand
52:03
us
52:03
in
52:04
really,
52:04
I
52:04
think,
52:04
inclusive
52:05
and
52:05
creative
52:06
ways.
52:07
But
52:08
we
52:08
have
52:08
to
52:08
do
52:08
that
52:09
with
52:09
that
52:09
attention
52:09
to
52:10
nurture
52:10
and
52:11
we
52:11
have
52:11
to
52:11
do
52:11
that
52:11
with
52:11
that
52:12
priority
52:13
for
52:13
life.
52:14
Affirmation.
52:16
Yeah.
52:17
Cool.
52:18
Joshua.
52:25
So
52:25
I
52:25
really
52:26
haven't
52:26
played
52:26
a
52:26
lot
52:26
of
52:26
D
52:26
and
52:27
D.
52:27
So
52:27
mine's
52:27
more
52:27
of
52:27
like
52:27
a
52:28
general
52:28
role
52:28
playing
52:29
game
52:29
kind
52:29
of
52:29
stuff.
52:29
I
52:30
played
52:30
some
52:30
like
52:31
post
52:31
apocalyptic
52:32
Doctor
52:32
who
52:34
champions,
52:35
some
52:35
of
52:35
those.
52:37
Whenever
52:38
I
52:38
get
52:38
into
52:38
these
52:38
kind
52:38
of
52:38
games,
52:38
one
52:39
of
52:39
the
52:39
things
52:39
that
52:39
I
52:39
like
52:39
to
52:39
be
52:39
is
52:40
like
52:40
the
52:40
most
52:40
opposite
52:41
me
52:41
that
52:41
I
52:41
can
52:41
be.
52:42
So
52:42
I
52:42
tend
52:43
to
52:43
be
52:43
like
52:43
chaotic
52:44
evil
52:46
female.
52:46
Because
52:47
like
52:47
I
52:47
like
52:48
that's
52:48
a
52:49
solid.
52:49
Brag,
52:50
by
52:50
the
52:50
way.
52:50
Mostly
52:50
strange.
52:54
I'm
52:55
like
52:55
more
52:55
vanilla
52:56
than
52:56
vanilla.
52:57
Yeah,
52:58
I
52:58
memorize
52:59
rules
52:59
so
52:59
I
52:59
make
52:59
sure
53:00
I
53:00
don't
53:00
accidentally
53:01
maybe
53:01
bend
53:01
one,
53:01
you
53:01
know,
53:02
Like
53:02
I
53:02
am
53:03
the
53:03
most
53:03
vanilla.
53:04
So
53:05
like
53:05
when
53:05
I
53:05
get
53:05
into
53:06
this,
53:06
I'm
53:06
like,
53:06
I
53:06
want
53:06
to
53:06
be
53:06
chaotic.
53:07
I
53:07
want
53:07
to
53:07
be
53:08
like,
53:08
you
53:08
know,
53:08
like
53:09
just
53:10
stretch
53:10
my
53:10
gender,
53:11
stretch
53:12
all
53:12
the
53:12
bounds
53:12
I
53:12
can.
53:13
Which
53:14
usually
53:14
ends
53:15
up,
53:15
I'm
53:15
getting
53:15
to
53:15
her,
53:15
I
53:15
promise.
53:16
Usually
53:17
ends
53:17
up
53:17
with
53:17
like.
53:18
Like.
53:18
Because
53:19
we're
53:19
talking
53:19
a
53:19
lot
53:19
about
53:19
this,
53:19
like
53:20
the
53:20
collaborative
53:21
effort
53:21
of
53:21
these
53:22
games,
53:22
like
53:22
what
53:22
it
53:22
means
53:22
to
53:23
like
53:23
play
53:23
together.
53:23
And
53:24
I'm
53:24
like,
53:24
well,
53:24
I'm
53:24
playing
53:25
this
53:25
character.
53:25
And
53:26
what
53:26
my
53:26
character
53:26
would
53:26
do
53:27
as
53:27
Chaotic
53:27
Evil
53:28
is
53:28
if
53:28
you're
53:28
gonna
53:28
pick
53:28
up
53:28
that
53:29
treasure,
53:29
I'm
53:29
gonna
53:29
shoot
53:29
my
53:30
teammate
53:30
in
53:30
the
53:30
back
53:30
and
53:31
take
53:31
it
53:31
from
53:31
them.
53:31
Cause
53:32
fuck
53:32
em,
53:32
you
53:33
know?
53:33
Yeah.
53:34
So
53:35
how
53:35
does
53:36
playing
53:36
characters
53:37
that
53:37
necessarily
53:38
aren't
53:38
very
53:38
collaborative
53:39
in
53:39
these
53:39
collaborative
53:40
games
53:40
really,
53:41
how
53:42
does
53:42
that
53:42
play
53:42
a
53:42
part
53:42
in
53:42
these
53:43
conversations?
53:45
You
53:45
can
53:45
go
53:45
for
53:45
that
53:46
you
53:46
want.
53:46
So
53:47
I
53:47
can.
53:47
Yeah,
53:48
I
53:48
have
53:49
this
53:49
conversation
53:49
with
53:49
my
53:50
players.
53:50
So
53:50
I
53:50
am
53:50
currently
53:51
running
53:51
a
53:51
campaign
53:52
in
53:52
Pathfinder
53:53
with
53:53
several
53:53
evil
53:54
characters.
53:54
And
53:54
it's
53:54
been
53:54
a
53:55
very
53:55
interesting
53:55
exercise
53:56
and
53:57
I
53:57
think.
53:58
Interesting
53:58
exercise,
53:59
yes,
53:59
there
53:59
you
53:59
go.
54:00
No,
54:00
like
54:02
being
54:02
a
54:02
story
54:03
because
54:04
in
54:05
the
54:05
actions
54:06
we're
54:06
taking,
54:06
there
54:06
is
54:07
an
54:07
extent
54:07
to
54:07
which
54:07
you
54:08
are
54:08
doing
54:08
things,
54:09
but
54:09
ultimately
54:09
you
54:10
are
54:10
creating
54:10
a
54:10
story
54:10
that
54:11
we're
54:11
all
54:11
witnessing.
54:12
And
54:13
there
54:14
are
54:14
good
54:14
stories
54:15
about
54:16
bad
54:16
people
54:17
doing
54:17
stuff
54:17
and
54:17
the
54:18
consequences
54:19
being
54:19
something
54:19
we
54:20
learn
54:20
from
54:20
or
54:21
we
54:21
learn
54:21
about
54:21
ourselves.
54:21
We
54:22
learn
54:22
about
54:22
the
54:22
world
54:23
as
54:23
we
54:23
see
54:23
the
54:24
consequences
54:24
of
54:24
these
54:25
stories.
54:26
So
54:28
my
54:28
players
54:28
were
54:29
in
54:29
this
54:29
city
54:29
and
54:29
there
54:29
was
54:30
a
54:30
problem
54:30
that
54:30
they
54:30
had
54:31
and
54:31
there
54:32
was
54:32
the.
54:33
If
54:33
you're
54:33
into
54:33
Pathfinder
54:34
lore,
54:34
they
54:34
decided
54:35
to
54:35
go
54:35
recruit
54:35
the
54:35
Hell
54:36
Knights,
54:36
which
54:36
are
54:37
a
54:39
fundamentalist
54:40
evil
54:40
group
54:41
about.
54:42
They're
54:43
kind
54:43
of
54:43
Nazis.
54:44
Not
54:44
really,
54:44
but
54:45
they're
54:45
like,
54:45
we're
54:46
going
54:46
to
54:46
go
54:46
find
54:46
the
54:46
strong.
54:46
We're
54:47
going
54:47
to
54:47
help.
54:47
We're
54:48
going
54:48
to
54:48
get
54:48
their
54:48
help.
54:48
And
54:48
so
54:49
these
54:49
are
54:49
real
54:49
powerful
54:50
people.
54:50
So
54:50
they
54:50
went
54:50
and
54:50
found
54:51
them
54:51
and
54:51
they
54:51
got
54:51
the
54:52
help.
54:52
And
54:52
then
54:53
basically
54:53
the
54:53
way
54:54
that
54:54
we
54:54
kind
54:54
of
54:54
dealt
54:54
with
54:54
the
54:54
consequences
54:55
of
54:55
that
54:55
was
54:55
next
54:56
time
54:56
they
54:56
were
54:56
back
54:56
in
54:56
town,
54:56
the
54:57
Hell
54:57
Knights
54:57
had
54:57
gotten
54:58
super
54:58
popular
54:59
and
54:59
they
54:59
had
54:59
seen
55:00
the
55:00
Hell
55:00
Knight
55:00
captain
55:00
that
55:00
helped
55:01
them
55:01
up
55:02
on
55:02
a
55:02
stage
55:02
giving
55:02
a
55:03
speech
55:03
about
55:03
how
55:04
these
55:05
are
55:05
the
55:05
heroes
55:05
that
55:05
helped
55:06
us
55:06
root
55:06
out
55:06
savagery
55:07
from
55:07
this
55:07
city.
55:08
And
55:08
we
55:08
all
55:08
need
55:08
to
55:09
be
55:09
wary
55:10
because
55:10
savagery
55:10
is
55:10
in
55:11
each
55:11
one
55:11
of
55:11
us.
55:11
It
55:12
is
55:12
next
55:12
to
55:12
you,
55:12
it
55:12
is
55:13
in
55:13
our
55:13
walls.
55:14
And
55:14
basically
55:14
that
55:15
town's
55:15
getting
55:15
real
55:16
bad.
55:17
And
55:18
so
55:18
the
55:19
players
55:19
were
55:20
into
55:21
like,
55:21
the
55:21
characters
55:22
were
55:22
into
55:22
it,
55:23
but
55:23
the
55:23
players
55:24
are
55:24
witnessing
55:24
it
55:24
and
55:25
feeling
55:25
weird
55:25
about
55:25
it.
55:25
And
55:26
so
55:26
it's
55:26
a
55:26
way
55:27
to.
55:28
Let's
55:28
push
55:28
on
55:28
this
55:29
system
55:29
in
55:29
this
55:30
way
55:31
and
55:31
witness
55:31
what
55:32
happens.
55:33
And
55:33
so
55:33
I
55:33
think
55:34
for
55:34
the
55:34
dungeon
55:34
master
55:35
and
55:35
for
55:35
the
55:35
player,
55:35
just
55:35
observing
55:36
what
55:36
happens,
55:37
well,
55:39
is
55:40
how
55:40
you
55:40
make
55:40
that
55:40
fun.
55:41
Right.
55:41
Because
55:41
if
55:41
you
55:42
just
55:42
let
55:42
the
55:42
players
55:42
indulge
55:43
in
55:43
the
55:43
power
55:43
fantasy,
55:44
you're
55:44
just
55:45
kind
55:45
of
55:46
doing
55:46
a
55:46
feedback
55:46
loop
55:47
on
55:47
the
55:47
worst
55:47
part
55:47
of
55:47
yourselves.
55:48
But
55:49
if
55:49
you're
55:49
narrating
55:49
it
55:50
well,
55:51
you
55:51
see
55:51
the
55:51
cost.
55:52
And
55:52
if
55:53
everybody
55:53
is,
55:54
if
55:54
your
55:54
table's
55:54
mature
55:55
about
55:55
it,
55:56
that
55:56
can
55:56
be,
55:57
that
55:58
can
55:58
be
55:58
life
55:59
giving
55:59
in
55:59
its
55:59
own
56:00
way.
56:00
And
56:00
that
56:01
like,
56:01
wow.
56:01
Yeah,
56:01
that
56:01
real
56:02
dark
56:02
thing
56:02
happened
56:03
and
56:03
it
56:03
like,
56:04
it
56:04
made
56:05
you
56:05
think
56:05
about,
56:05
like,
56:05
why
56:05
did
56:05
I
56:06
want
56:06
to
56:06
do
56:06
that?
56:06
And
56:06
like
56:07
it
56:07
was,
56:07
it's.
56:07
It
56:07
can
56:08
be
56:08
informative
56:08
and
56:08
thought
56:09
provoking.
56:09
Yeah.
56:10
So
56:10
I
56:10
think
56:11
we
56:11
can
56:11
get
56:11
really,
56:13
we
56:13
can
56:13
get
56:13
really
56:14
myopic
56:15
in
56:15
our
56:16
everyday
56:16
routines.
56:17
Right.
56:17
Like,
56:18
we're
56:18
just
56:18
real
56:19
comfortable
56:19
in
56:20
what
56:20
we're
56:21
in
56:21
right
56:21
now
56:21
in
56:21
life.
56:22
And
56:22
so
56:23
roleplay
56:24
gaming
56:24
like
56:24
this
56:24
gives
56:25
us
56:25
a
56:25
chance
56:25
to
56:25
cross
56:26
boundaries
56:26
that
56:27
we
56:27
may
56:27
or
56:27
may
56:27
not
56:28
actually
56:28
get
56:28
to
56:28
cross
56:29
in
56:29
our
56:30
day
56:30
to
56:30
day
56:30
life.
56:31
And
56:31
Mary
56:32
Elizabeth
56:32
Moore
56:33
is
56:33
a
56:34
brilliant
56:35
process
56:35
theologian,
56:36
super
56:36
compassionate
56:38
religious
56:39
educator.
56:39
Mary
56:40
Elizabeth
56:40
Moore
56:41
wrote
56:42
that
56:43
boundary
56:44
crossing
56:45
like
56:45
this
56:46
in
56:46
our
56:46
storytelling,
56:47
like
56:47
when
56:47
we,
56:48
in
56:49
gaming
56:49
like
56:49
this,
56:50
when
56:50
we
56:50
are
56:50
able
56:50
to
56:50
lean
56:51
into
56:51
the
56:51
storytelling
56:52
to
56:52
such
56:52
an
56:52
extent
56:52
that
56:53
we
56:53
are
56:53
comfortable
56:53
crossing
56:54
boundaries
56:56
in
56:56
the
56:56
game
56:57
that
56:58
we
56:58
might
56:58
not
56:59
actually
56:59
be
56:59
able
56:59
to
57:00
cross
57:00
in
57:00
our
57:00
daily
57:00
lives.
57:01
That
57:02
this
57:02
kind
57:02
of
57:02
boundary
57:02
crossing
57:03
nurtures
57:04
empathy
57:04
toward
57:05
others
57:06
and
57:06
raises
57:07
important
57:07
existential
57:08
questions
57:08
in
57:09
encounters
57:09
with
57:09
similarity
57:10
and
57:10
difference.
57:12
It
57:12
does
57:13
not
57:13
matter
57:13
if
57:13
the
57:13
boundary
57:14
you
57:14
crossed
57:15
is
57:15
cutting
57:16
off
57:16
your
57:16
teammate's
57:17
head
57:17
or
57:18
not.
57:18
Right.
57:19
The
57:20
fact
57:20
that
57:20
you
57:21
had
57:21
the
57:21
space
57:22
to
57:22
cross
57:23
that
57:23
boundary
57:24
and
57:24
to
57:24
actually
57:25
live
57:25
into
57:26
the
57:27
character
57:27
and
57:28
have
57:28
to
57:29
process
57:30
the
57:31
feelings
57:32
and
57:32
emotions
57:32
and
57:33
choices
57:34
to
57:34
do
57:35
that
57:36
is
57:37
a
57:37
practice
57:37
of
57:38
empathy
57:38
that
57:39
can
57:39
shape
57:40
your
57:40
everyday
57:40
life
57:41
for
57:41
a
57:41
better
57:42
sense
57:42
of
57:42
understanding.
57:42
This
57:43
is
57:43
the
57:43
beauty
57:43
of
57:43
fiction
57:44
writing.
57:45
Right.
57:45
I
57:46
can't
57:46
wait
57:46
to
57:46
perceive
57:47
with
57:47
my
57:47
arrow.
57:49
I'm
57:49
perceiving
57:50
these
57:50
boundaries.
57:50
Perceiving
57:51
these
57:51
boundaries.
57:53
Nick
57:53
is
57:54
going
57:54
to
57:54
ask
57:54
the
57:54
next
57:54
question.
57:55
Nick
57:55
was
57:55
our
57:55
DM
57:56
for
57:56
the
57:56
pre
57:56
game
57:57
for
57:57
the
57:57
target
57:58
and,
57:58
and
57:58
ruled
57:59
it
57:59
and
57:59
I.
57:59
It
57:59
was
57:59
so
58:00
much
58:00
fun
58:00
and
58:00
so
58:01
yeah,
58:01
I
58:01
can't
58:01
wait
58:01
to
58:01
hear
58:01
what
58:02
your
58:02
conversation
58:02
is
58:03
because
58:03
you
58:03
had
58:03
to
58:04
like
58:05
manage
58:05
and
58:05
deal
58:05
with
58:06
us
58:06
and
58:07
like
58:07
partying
58:08
campaign.
58:09
Well,
58:10
I'm
58:10
probably
58:10
a
58:11
little
58:11
too
58:11
loose.
58:12
Like
58:12
I'm,
58:12
I'm
58:12
kind
58:12
of
58:12
on
58:12
the
58:13
opposite
58:13
where
58:13
I'm
58:13
like
58:14
the
58:14
rule.
58:14
Like
58:15
what
58:15
do
58:15
you.
58:15
Yeah,
58:15
that's
58:15
fine.
58:16
That's
58:16
fine.
58:17
So
58:17
I'm
58:17
very.
58:17
I
58:18
like,
58:18
I
58:18
like,
58:18
I
58:18
like
58:19
narrative
58:19
and
58:19
like
58:19
to
58:19
give
58:20
controls
58:20
to
58:20
the
58:20
players,
58:21
probably
58:21
to
58:21
a
58:21
fault.
58:22
But
58:22
anyway,
58:23
so
58:23
my
58:23
question
58:24
is
58:24
actually
58:24
related
58:25
to
58:26
multi
58:26
religious
58:27
belonging
58:28
and
58:28
so
58:28
how
58:29
dnd,
58:30
like
58:30
even
58:30
in
58:30
its.
58:31
In
58:31
the
58:31
world
58:31
itself
58:32
has
58:32
that.
58:33
And
58:33
then
58:33
of
58:33
course
58:34
even
58:34
with
58:34
how
58:35
your
58:35
dad
58:35
was
58:35
doing
58:36
pedagogy
58:36
is
58:37
very
58:37
multi
58:37
religious
58:38
in
58:38
the
58:38
sense
58:38
because
58:39
he
58:39
wasn't
58:39
using
58:40
traditional
58:41
Methodist
58:41
Christian
58:42
education,
58:42
he's
58:42
using
58:43
D
58:43
and
58:43
D
58:43
which
58:43
is
58:43
crazy.
58:44
Not
58:45
crazy.
58:45
And
58:45
it's
58:46
just
58:46
awesome.
58:46
It's
58:46
fantastic.
58:47
And
58:47
so
58:48
I,
58:48
you
58:48
know,
58:49
especially
58:49
as
58:49
a
58:49
Tolkien
58:50
person
58:50
who
58:51
all
58:51
of
58:51
us
58:51
are
58:51
very
58:52
many
58:53
of
58:53
us
58:53
have
58:53
experienced
58:54
trauma,
58:54
are
58:54
very
58:55
skeptical
58:55
of
58:55
the
58:55
church,
58:56
but
58:56
also
58:56
want
58:56
to
58:56
be
58:57
here
58:57
and
58:58
we
58:58
find
58:58
community
58:58
in
58:59
D
58:59
and
58:59
D
59:00
or
59:00
Tolkien.
59:01
And
59:01
I
59:01
have
59:01
probably
59:01
had
59:02
mystical
59:02
religious
59:03
experiences.
59:04
I
59:04
know
59:04
I
59:04
have
59:04
in
59:05
and
59:05
well,
59:06
I've
59:06
read
59:06
Tolkien's
59:06
legendarium
59:07
and
59:07
even
59:07
in
59:08
DND
59:08
sessions
59:09
while
59:09
I've
59:09
DMed
59:10
or
59:10
just
59:10
participated
59:11
as
59:11
a
59:11
player.
59:12
And
59:12
so
59:12
I'd
59:12
love
59:12
to
59:13
hear
59:13
your
59:13
thoughts
59:13
on
59:13
just
59:14
like
59:14
how
59:15
maybe
59:15
your
59:15
own
59:16
experiences
59:17
from
59:17
multi
59:18
religious
59:18
experience
59:19
in
59:20
whatever
59:21
role
59:21
playing
59:21
games
59:22
you've
59:22
played
59:22
and
59:23
maybe
59:23
even
59:23
if
59:23
you
59:24
see
59:24
that
59:24
as
59:24
important
59:25
or
59:25
even
59:25
just
59:26
whatever,
59:26
whatever
59:26
that
59:27
is,
59:27
like
59:27
what
59:27
does
59:28
that
59:28
mean
59:28
for
59:28
the
59:28
future
59:29
of
59:30
theology
59:30
in
59:30
our
59:31
lives
59:31
generally
59:32
and
59:33
also
59:33
your
59:33
own
59:33
experience,
59:34
how
59:34
that's
59:34
been
59:34
like
59:34
a
59:35
comfort
59:36
for
59:36
y'all
59:37
real,
59:37
real
59:38
quick.
59:38
I'll
59:38
just
59:38
say
59:38
like
59:39
we
59:39
have
59:39
like,
59:40
let's
59:40
see,
59:41
10
59:41
minutes.
59:42
We
59:42
have
59:42
two
59:42
more
59:42
questions
59:42
I
59:42
want
59:43
to
59:43
get
59:43
to
59:43
so
59:43
we'll
59:43
go
59:44
quick.
59:44
But
59:44
I'll
59:44
just
59:44
say
59:45
like
59:45
I
59:45
am
59:46
just
59:46
like
59:46
a
59:47
story
59:47
junkie.
59:48
Is
59:48
there
59:48
any
59:48
anywhere
59:49
you
59:49
can
59:49
get
59:49
like
59:49
a
59:50
cool
59:50
story
59:50
that
59:51
I
59:51
could
59:51
be
59:51
immersed
59:51
in
59:51
that
59:52
that
59:53
can
59:53
expand
59:54
my
59:54
imagination
59:54
and
59:54
be
59:55
into
59:55
then
59:55
I'm
59:56
a
59:56
part
59:56
of
59:56
it.
59:56
So
59:56
like
59:56
the
59:57
collaborative
59:57
Storytelling,
59:58
part
59:58
of
59:58
it
59:59
with
59:59
others,
59:59
being
59:59
entangled
1:00:00
in
1:00:00
a
1:00:00
party,
1:00:01
moving
1:00:01
forward,
1:00:02
adventure.
1:00:03
I'm
1:00:03
like,
1:00:04
I'm
1:00:04
all
1:00:04
for
1:00:04
it.
1:00:05
So
1:00:05
I
1:00:05
think
1:00:06
healthy
1:00:07
communities,
1:00:08
faith
1:00:08
communities,
1:00:08
even
1:00:09
churches,
1:00:10
understand
1:00:10
that
1:00:10
they're
1:00:11
part
1:00:11
of
1:00:11
a
1:00:11
collaborative,
1:00:12
entangled,
1:00:12
storytelling
1:00:13
adventure
1:00:14
together
1:00:15
is
1:00:15
what
1:00:15
brings
1:00:16
hope
1:00:16
and
1:00:17
energy
1:00:17
and
1:00:18
zest
1:00:18
to
1:00:19
a
1:00:19
community.
1:00:20
So
1:00:20
that
1:00:20
that's
1:00:21
where
1:00:21
I
1:00:21
want
1:00:21
to
1:00:21
encourage
1:00:22
and
1:00:22
be
1:00:22
a
1:00:22
part
1:00:22
of
1:00:23
and
1:00:23
try
1:00:23
to
1:00:23
like,
1:00:23
facilitate
1:00:24
and
1:00:25
spread
1:00:25
the
1:00:25
good
1:00:25
news
1:00:25
of
1:00:26
I'm
1:00:26
a
1:00:26
story
1:00:27
junkie
1:00:27
and
1:00:27
let's
1:00:27
do
1:00:27
it.
1:00:28
That's
1:00:28
kind
1:00:28
of
1:00:28
thing.
1:00:30
Whitehead
1:00:31
in
1:00:32
Religion
1:00:32
in
1:00:32
the
1:00:33
Making
1:00:34
Alfred
1:00:34
North
1:00:34
Whitehead
1:00:35
says
1:00:35
religion
1:00:35
is
1:00:35
what
1:00:36
one
1:00:36
does
1:00:36
with
1:00:36
his
1:00:36
solitariness.
1:00:38
And
1:00:39
that
1:00:39
gets
1:00:39
misread
1:00:40
all
1:00:40
the
1:00:40
time
1:00:40
as
1:00:41
the
1:00:41
most
1:00:41
hyper
1:00:41
individualistic
1:00:42
definition
1:00:43
of
1:00:43
religion
1:00:43
that's
1:00:43
ever
1:00:43
been
1:00:44
written
1:00:44
in
1:00:44
the
1:00:44
English
1:00:44
language.
1:00:46
Instead,
1:00:47
knowing
1:00:48
Whitehead,
1:00:49
knowing
1:00:50
process,
1:00:51
metaphysics
1:00:52
and
1:00:53
the
1:00:53
breadth
1:00:53
of
1:00:54
how
1:00:54
Whitehead
1:00:55
thought
1:00:55
about
1:00:55
the
1:00:55
individual
1:00:56
and
1:00:56
solitariness.
1:00:58
To
1:00:58
say
1:00:58
that
1:00:59
religion
1:00:59
is
1:00:59
what
1:00:59
one
1:00:59
does
1:01:00
with
1:01:00
their
1:01:00
solitariness
1:01:02
is
1:01:03
to
1:01:04
say
1:01:04
religion
1:01:05
is
1:01:05
what
1:01:05
you
1:01:06
do
1:01:07
when
1:01:07
you,
1:01:08
as
1:01:08
you
1:01:09
realize
1:01:10
that
1:01:10
you
1:01:11
are
1:01:11
only
1:01:11
you
1:01:13
because
1:01:13
of
1:01:13
all
1:01:14
of
1:01:14
the
1:01:14
relationships
1:01:15
that
1:01:15
knit
1:01:16
the
1:01:16
cosmos
1:01:16
together.
1:01:19
Religion
1:01:20
then
1:01:21
is
1:01:21
what
1:01:21
you
1:01:22
do
1:01:23
with
1:01:23
the
1:01:24
fact
1:01:25
that
1:01:25
you
1:01:26
are
1:01:26
you
1:01:26
because
1:01:26
of
1:01:27
your
1:01:27
relationships.
1:01:31
Multi
1:01:32
religious
1:01:32
belonging,
1:01:33
I
1:01:33
think,
1:01:33
and
1:01:33
role
1:01:34
playing,
1:01:34
gaming
1:01:35
in
1:01:35
this
1:01:35
way
1:01:35
can
1:01:35
really
1:01:36
help
1:01:36
us
1:01:36
think
1:01:37
through
1:01:37
the
1:01:38
doing
1:01:40
of
1:01:40
that
1:01:40
storytelling
1:01:41
and
1:01:41
play
1:01:42
and
1:01:43
taking
1:01:44
stock
1:01:44
of
1:01:45
how
1:01:45
our
1:01:46
relationships
1:01:47
constitute
1:01:48
all
1:01:48
of
1:01:48
us.
1:01:49
How
1:01:49
our
1:01:49
relationships
1:01:50
contribute
1:01:51
to
1:01:51
who
1:01:51
we
1:01:52
understand
1:01:53
ourselves
1:01:53
to
1:01:53
be,
1:01:54
but
1:01:54
also
1:01:54
how
1:01:54
we,
1:01:55
because
1:01:55
of
1:01:55
our
1:01:55
relationships,
1:01:56
contribute
1:01:57
to
1:01:57
who
1:01:57
other
1:01:57
people
1:01:58
actually
1:01:58
are.
1:01:59
Right.
1:01:59
Like
1:02:00
you
1:02:00
realize
1:02:01
all
1:02:01
of
1:02:01
us
1:02:02
are
1:02:02
becoming
1:02:02
new
1:02:03
people
1:02:03
right
1:02:03
now
1:02:04
because
1:02:04
we
1:02:04
have
1:02:05
been
1:02:05
in
1:02:05
this
1:02:05
conversation,
1:02:07
right?
1:02:08
How
1:02:08
we
1:02:09
incorporate
1:02:09
that
1:02:10
into
1:02:11
our
1:02:11
own
1:02:12
story
1:02:13
of
1:02:13
ourselves
1:02:16
may
1:02:16
or
1:02:16
may
1:02:17
not
1:02:17
incorporate
1:02:18
the
1:02:18
nine
1:02:18
traditional
1:02:19
loci
1:02:19
of
1:02:20
Christian
1:02:20
theology.
1:02:23
It
1:02:23
may
1:02:23
in
1:02:24
fact
1:02:24
bring
1:02:25
in,
1:02:25
in
1:02:25
the
1:02:25
case
1:02:25
of
1:02:25
my
1:02:26
dad,
1:02:26
it
1:02:27
may
1:02:27
in
1:02:27
fact
1:02:27
bring
1:02:27
in
1:02:28
a
1:02:29
radically
1:02:30
open,
1:02:31
monotheistic,
1:02:33
unnamed,
1:02:34
apophatic
1:02:36
cosmology
1:02:38
in
1:02:38
which
1:02:39
there
1:02:39
was
1:02:40
an
1:02:40
unnamed
1:02:41
God
1:02:42
and
1:02:42
the
1:02:42
unnamed
1:02:43
God
1:02:43
was
1:02:43
the
1:02:44
deity
1:02:45
of
1:02:45
the
1:02:45
cosmos.
1:02:46
And
1:02:47
the
1:02:47
unnamed
1:02:47
God,
1:02:48
like
1:02:49
the
1:02:49
one
1:02:50
recognized
1:02:50
in
1:02:51
Acts,
1:02:51
the
1:02:51
Apostles,
1:02:52
the
1:02:52
unnamed
1:02:53
God
1:02:54
was
1:02:54
journeying
1:02:55
along
1:02:56
with
1:02:56
the
1:02:56
adventurers
1:02:57
into
1:02:57
an
1:02:57
unknown
1:02:58
future.
1:03:00
Right?
1:03:01
That
1:03:01
storytelling
1:03:03
can
1:03:03
stick
1:03:03
in
1:03:03
your
1:03:04
craw
1:03:04
the
1:03:04
exact
1:03:05
same
1:03:05
way
1:03:05
as
1:03:06
the
1:03:06
best
1:03:07
Bonhoeffer
1:03:08
Christology
1:03:09
you
1:03:09
got,
1:03:11
if
1:03:11
it
1:03:12
helps
1:03:12
us
1:03:13
make
1:03:13
sense
1:03:13
of
1:03:14
how
1:03:15
each
1:03:15
one
1:03:16
of
1:03:16
us
1:03:16
contribute
1:03:17
to
1:03:17
who
1:03:17
I
1:03:18
understand
1:03:18
myself
1:03:19
to
1:03:19
be.
1:03:20
So
1:03:21
I
1:03:21
think
1:03:21
role
1:03:21
playing,
1:03:21
gaming
1:03:22
and
1:03:22
storytelling
1:03:22
really
1:03:23
helps
1:03:24
broaden
1:03:25
our
1:03:26
opportunities
1:03:27
to
1:03:27
account
1:03:27
for
1:03:27
our
1:03:28
own,
1:03:28
all
1:03:28
of
1:03:28
our
1:03:28
relationships
1:03:29
and
1:03:29
to
1:03:29
account
1:03:30
for
1:03:30
who
1:03:30
we're
1:03:31
responsible
1:03:31
to
1:03:32
who,
1:03:32
who
1:03:33
we
1:03:33
can
1:03:33
be
1:03:33
grateful
1:03:34
to,
1:03:34
who
1:03:34
we
1:03:35
can
1:03:35
thank.
1:03:35
Because
1:03:36
without
1:03:36
you,
1:03:37
I
1:03:37
couldn't
1:03:37
be
1:03:37
me.
1:03:43
Hello.
1:03:44
Hi,
1:03:44
my
1:03:44
name
1:03:44
is
1:03:45
Nathan.
1:03:45
I'm
1:03:45
a
1:03:45
middle
1:03:45
school
1:03:45
teacher
1:03:46
and
1:03:47
also
1:03:48
I
1:03:49
DM
1:03:49
my
1:03:49
middle
1:03:49
school
1:03:50
kids
1:03:50
sometimes.
1:03:50
Like.
1:03:53
I
1:03:54
teach
1:03:55
history,
1:03:56
he
1:03:56
teaches
1:03:56
Dungeons
1:03:57
and
1:03:57
Dragons.
1:03:57
Yeah,
1:03:58
that's
1:03:58
what
1:03:58
I
1:03:58
really
1:03:58
try
1:03:58
to
1:03:58
teach.
1:03:59
So
1:03:59
I'm
1:04:00
coming
1:04:00
at
1:04:00
it
1:04:00
from
1:04:00
a
1:04:00
few
1:04:01
angles.
1:04:01
I
1:04:01
also
1:04:01
gave
1:04:01
a
1:04:02
talk,
1:04:02
not
1:04:02
to
1:04:02
my
1:04:02
middle
1:04:03
schoolers
1:04:03
a
1:04:03
few
1:04:04
months
1:04:04
ago
1:04:04
called
1:04:05
David
1:04:05
Bowie
1:04:06
versus
1:04:06
the
1:04:06
Puritans.
1:04:08
And.
1:04:08
And
1:04:08
what.
1:04:09
What
1:04:09
I
1:04:09
found
1:04:09
when
1:04:10
I
1:04:10
was
1:04:10
researching
1:04:10
for
1:04:11
it
1:04:11
is
1:04:11
an
1:04:11
answer,
1:04:12
I
1:04:12
think,
1:04:12
to
1:04:12
the
1:04:13
question
1:04:13
that
1:04:13
was
1:04:13
earlier
1:04:14
about
1:04:14
what
1:04:15
did
1:04:15
the.
1:04:15
The
1:04:16
Satanic.
1:04:17
Satanic
1:04:17
panic.
1:04:18
The
1:04:18
Satanic
1:04:18
panic.
1:04:19
What
1:04:19
were
1:04:19
they
1:04:19
really?
1:04:19
And
1:04:20
I,
1:04:20
I
1:04:20
totally
1:04:21
agree
1:04:21
with
1:04:21
your
1:04:21
power
1:04:22
thing,
1:04:22
but
1:04:22
I
1:04:22
think,
1:04:22
and
1:04:23
this
1:04:23
is
1:04:23
underneath
1:04:24
a
1:04:24
lot
1:04:24
of
1:04:24
it
1:04:24
is
1:04:25
a
1:04:25
real
1:04:25
fear
1:04:26
of
1:04:27
the
1:04:27
same
1:04:27
reason
1:04:27
that
1:04:27
they
1:04:28
didn't
1:04:28
like
1:04:28
David
1:04:29
bowie
1:04:31
or
1:04:32
like
1:04:33
16th
1:04:33
century
1:04:34
British
1:04:34
plays,
1:04:35
which
1:04:35
is
1:04:35
where
1:04:35
the
1:04:36
Puritans
1:04:36
originally
1:04:37
lashed
1:04:37
out
1:04:37
against.
1:04:38
Because
1:04:39
of
1:04:39
the
1:04:39
sense
1:04:39
of
1:04:40
play
1:04:41
that
1:04:41
they
1:04:41
brought.
1:04:43
Because
1:04:44
they
1:04:44
fundamentally
1:04:45
don't
1:04:45
understand
1:04:45
the
1:04:45
image
1:04:45
of
1:04:45
God.
1:04:46
And
1:04:46
they
1:04:46
think
1:04:46
all
1:04:46
of
1:04:46
it
1:04:47
is
1:04:47
just.
1:04:48
They
1:04:48
think
1:04:50
if
1:04:50
your
1:04:50
salvation
1:04:51
is
1:04:51
at
1:04:51
risk
1:04:51
every
1:04:52
moment,
1:04:52
you
1:04:52
don't
1:04:52
have
1:04:53
time
1:04:53
to
1:04:53
play,
1:04:53
you
1:04:53
don't
1:04:54
have
1:04:54
time
1:04:54
to
1:04:54
risk,
1:04:55
you
1:04:55
don't
1:04:55
have
1:04:55
to.
1:04:56
So
1:04:57
all
1:04:57
that
1:04:57
together.
1:04:58
The
1:04:58
quote
1:04:59
that
1:04:59
I
1:04:59
thought
1:05:00
was
1:05:00
really
1:05:00
cool
1:05:00
that
1:05:01
I
1:05:01
found
1:05:01
doing
1:05:01
it
1:05:02
was
1:05:02
from
1:05:02
W.H.
1:05:03
auden
1:05:04
in
1:05:04
the
1:05:04
Age
1:05:04
of
1:05:04
Anxiety
1:05:05
play
1:05:05
where
1:05:06
he
1:05:06
says,
1:05:06
human
1:05:06
beings
1:05:07
are
1:05:07
necessarily
1:05:08
actors
1:05:09
who
1:05:09
cannot
1:05:09
become
1:05:10
something
1:05:10
before
1:05:10
they
1:05:11
have
1:05:11
first
1:05:11
pretended
1:05:12
to
1:05:12
be
1:05:12
it.
1:05:13
And
1:05:13
they
1:05:13
can
1:05:14
be
1:05:14
divided
1:05:15
not
1:05:15
into
1:05:15
the
1:05:16
hypocritical
1:05:16
and
1:05:16
the
1:05:17
sincere,
1:05:17
but
1:05:18
into
1:05:18
the
1:05:18
sane
1:05:18
who
1:05:19
know
1:05:19
that
1:05:19
they
1:05:19
are
1:05:19
acting
1:05:20
and
1:05:20
the
1:05:20
mad
1:05:20
who
1:05:20
know
1:05:20
that
1:05:21
they
1:05:21
are
1:05:21
not.
1:05:21
Yes.
1:05:22
So
1:05:23
that,
1:05:24
that
1:05:24
gave
1:05:24
me
1:05:24
a
1:05:24
lot
1:05:25
of
1:05:25
like.
1:05:25
Because
1:05:26
I
1:05:26
also
1:05:26
changed
1:05:26
jobs
1:05:27
to
1:05:27
go
1:05:27
to
1:05:27
a
1:05:27
more
1:05:28
religious
1:05:28
school.
1:05:29
And
1:05:29
anyway,
1:05:30
that
1:05:30
gave
1:05:31
me
1:05:31
a
1:05:31
lot
1:05:31
of
1:05:31
the
1:05:31
reason
1:05:31
to
1:05:32
carry
1:05:32
the
1:05:32
D
1:05:32
and
1:05:32
D
1:05:33
thing
1:05:33
on.
1:05:33
And
1:05:33
so
1:05:34
I
1:05:34
just
1:05:34
have
1:05:34
a.
1:05:34
There's
1:05:35
one
1:05:35
question
1:05:35
that
1:05:35
I
1:05:35
have
1:05:35
because
1:05:35
I
1:05:35
also
1:05:36
teach.
1:05:37
So
1:05:37
the
1:05:37
big
1:05:37
question
1:05:38
is
1:05:38
this
1:05:38
that
1:05:38
I
1:05:38
want
1:05:38
you
1:05:38
to
1:05:39
answer.
1:05:39
Do
1:05:39
you
1:05:39
have
1:05:40
resources
1:05:40
to
1:05:40
help
1:05:41
do
1:05:41
what
1:05:41
you're
1:05:41
talking
1:05:42
about,
1:05:43
to
1:05:43
help
1:05:43
DMs
1:05:44
do
1:05:44
this
1:05:45
more
1:05:45
effectively.
1:05:47
So,
1:05:47
side
1:05:48
note,
1:05:48
I
1:05:49
also
1:05:49
teach.
1:05:50
I've
1:05:50
also
1:05:51
always
1:05:51
taught,
1:05:51
like,
1:05:52
I
1:05:52
don't
1:05:52
know,
1:05:53
like,
1:05:53
it's
1:05:53
called
1:05:53
roadmap.
1:05:54
It's
1:05:54
like
1:05:54
a
1:05:54
roadmap
1:05:55
course
1:05:55
to
1:05:55
help
1:05:55
kids
1:05:55
figure
1:05:56
out,
1:05:56
like,
1:05:56
it's
1:05:57
what
1:05:57
guidance
1:05:57
counselors
1:05:58
should
1:05:58
do
1:05:58
but
1:05:58
never
1:05:59
get
1:05:59
around
1:05:59
to.
1:06:00
And
1:06:00
they
1:06:00
just
1:06:00
try
1:06:01
and
1:06:01
the
1:06:01
whole
1:06:01
goal
1:06:02
is
1:06:02
to
1:06:02
help
1:06:02
a
1:06:02
kid
1:06:02
figure
1:06:03
out
1:06:03
how
1:06:03
they're
1:06:03
wired
1:06:04
up.
1:06:05
And
1:06:05
like
1:06:06
my
1:06:06
whole
1:06:07
goal
1:06:07
is
1:06:07
like.
1:06:07
And
1:06:08
then
1:06:08
you
1:06:08
go
1:06:09
with
1:06:09
you
1:06:10
figure
1:06:11
out
1:06:11
how
1:06:11
God
1:06:11
dealt
1:06:12
you
1:06:12
the
1:06:12
cards.
1:06:12
And
1:06:13
then
1:06:13
Go
1:06:13
with
1:06:13
your
1:06:13
best
1:06:14
version
1:06:14
of
1:06:14
that.
1:06:15
Like,
1:06:15
that's
1:06:15
what
1:06:16
you
1:06:16
do,
1:06:16
right?
1:06:16
And
1:06:17
so
1:06:17
for
1:06:17
that,
1:06:18
I
1:06:18
always
1:06:18
kind
1:06:18
of
1:06:19
found.
1:06:20
I
1:06:20
never
1:06:20
heard
1:06:20
the
1:06:20
term
1:06:21
before
1:06:22
the
1:06:22
biological
1:06:23
essentialism
1:06:24
actually
1:06:25
sort
1:06:25
of
1:06:26
helpful
1:06:27
for
1:06:27
a
1:06:27
lot
1:06:28
of
1:06:28
kids
1:06:29
because
1:06:30
middle
1:06:30
school
1:06:30
is
1:06:30
the
1:06:30
classic
1:06:31
place
1:06:31
where
1:06:32
you
1:06:32
get
1:06:32
the
1:06:33
kid
1:06:33
that
1:06:33
they're
1:06:34
still
1:06:34
convinced,
1:06:35
like,
1:06:35
half
1:06:36
my
1:06:36
boys
1:06:36
are
1:06:36
going
1:06:36
to
1:06:37
be
1:06:37
NBA
1:06:37
and
1:06:37
NFL
1:06:38
players.
1:06:39
And
1:06:39
I'm
1:06:39
like,
1:06:39
okay,
1:06:40
maybe,
1:06:40
but
1:06:40
let's
1:06:40
just
1:06:41
think
1:06:41
about
1:06:41
these.
1:06:41
The
1:06:42
greatest
1:06:42
middle
1:06:42
school
1:06:43
football
1:06:43
team
1:06:43
ever
1:06:43
assembled.
1:06:45
Let's
1:06:46
consider
1:06:46
some
1:06:47
of
1:06:47
these
1:06:47
stats.
1:06:48
Let's
1:06:48
consider.
1:06:49
Let's
1:06:50
consider
1:06:50
some
1:06:50
of
1:06:51
your
1:06:51
stats.
1:06:51
Let's
1:06:52
consider
1:06:52
what
1:06:52
the
1:06:52
hand
1:06:53
that
1:06:53
you've
1:06:53
been.
1:06:54
So
1:06:54
anyway,
1:06:54
I
1:06:54
just
1:06:55
wondered.
1:06:56
I
1:06:56
really
1:06:56
want
1:06:56
to
1:06:56
know
1:06:56
the
1:06:57
resources,
1:06:57
but
1:06:57
I
1:06:57
also
1:06:57
wonder
1:06:58
your
1:06:58
thoughts
1:06:58
on
1:06:58
that,
1:06:59
because
1:06:59
I
1:06:59
think
1:06:59
there's
1:07:00
a
1:07:00
good
1:07:00
part
1:07:00
of
1:07:01
like
1:07:01
accepting
1:07:02
sort
1:07:02
of
1:07:02
like,
1:07:04
like
1:07:04
how
1:07:04
you've
1:07:05
been
1:07:05
wired
1:07:05
up
1:07:06
that
1:07:06
can
1:07:07
actually
1:07:07
lead
1:07:07
to.
1:07:08
Because
1:07:08
otherwise
1:07:08
I
1:07:08
found
1:07:09
in
1:07:09
my.
1:07:10
Sometimes
1:07:11
this
1:07:11
is
1:07:12
not
1:07:12
related.
1:07:12
But
1:07:13
in
1:07:13
your
1:07:13
DM
1:07:13
games,
1:07:13
you
1:07:13
get
1:07:14
a
1:07:14
bunch
1:07:14
of
1:07:14
middle
1:07:14
school
1:07:14
kids
1:07:15
together,
1:07:15
everybody
1:07:15
wants
1:07:15
to
1:07:15
be
1:07:16
a
1:07:16
Dragonborn
1:07:16
or
1:07:16
a
1:07:16
Tiefling.
1:07:18
They
1:07:19
all
1:07:19
just
1:07:19
want
1:07:19
to
1:07:19
be
1:07:19
like,
1:07:20
I'm
1:07:21
stat
1:07:21
master
1:07:22
of
1:07:22
everything,
1:07:22
right?
1:07:23
So
1:07:24
to
1:07:24
answer
1:07:25
the
1:07:25
second
1:07:25
one,
1:07:26
because
1:07:27
the
1:07:27
first
1:07:27
one,
1:07:27
I'm
1:07:27
happy
1:07:28
to
1:07:29
share
1:07:29
my
1:07:29
bibliography
1:07:31
with
1:07:31
you,
1:07:32
but
1:07:33
a
1:07:33
lot
1:07:33
of
1:07:33
it
1:07:33
actually
1:07:33
comes
1:07:34
out
1:07:34
of
1:07:34
just
1:07:34
like
1:07:35
pedagogy
1:07:35
stuff
1:07:36
like
1:07:37
content
1:07:37
gamification,
1:07:38
pedagogy,
1:07:40
and
1:07:40
like
1:07:40
Antonio
1:07:41
Ruiz
1:07:41
Esquero
1:07:42
and
1:07:43
like
1:07:44
education
1:07:45
theory
1:07:45
people.
1:07:48
But
1:07:48
to
1:07:48
answer
1:07:49
the
1:07:49
second
1:07:49
one,
1:07:50
I
1:07:50
think
1:07:50
one
1:07:50
of
1:07:50
the
1:07:50
things
1:07:51
and
1:07:52
how
1:07:52
I
1:07:53
think
1:07:53
about
1:07:53
boundaries
1:07:53
and
1:07:54
limitations
1:07:54
is
1:07:54
helpful
1:07:55
here.
1:07:55
The
1:07:55
difference
1:07:56
between
1:07:56
biological
1:07:56
essentialism
1:07:58
and
1:07:58
like,
1:07:58
just
1:07:59
factual
1:07:59
boundaries
1:08:00
of
1:08:01
the
1:08:01
cosmos
1:08:02
is
1:08:02
that,
1:08:02
like,
1:08:03
it's
1:08:03
just
1:08:03
a
1:08:03
factual
1:08:04
boundary
1:08:05
that
1:08:06
99%
1:08:07
of
1:08:08
your
1:08:08
middle
1:08:08
school
1:08:08
football
1:08:09
players
1:08:09
are
1:08:09
not
1:08:09
going
1:08:09
to
1:08:09
play
1:08:10
in
1:08:10
the
1:08:10
NFL,
1:08:11
right?
1:08:11
Like,
1:08:12
that
1:08:12
actually
1:08:13
has
1:08:14
nothing
1:08:14
to
1:08:14
do
1:08:15
with
1:08:15
like,
1:08:16
claims
1:08:17
about
1:08:17
their
1:08:18
value
1:08:19
or
1:08:19
potential
1:08:19
or
1:08:20
fixedness
1:08:21
as
1:08:23
who
1:08:24
they
1:08:24
are
1:08:24
as
1:08:24
a
1:08:25
living
1:08:25
biotic
1:08:26
creature,
1:08:27
right?
1:08:27
And
1:08:27
so
1:08:28
the
1:08:29
narratives
1:08:29
that
1:08:30
we
1:08:30
can
1:08:30
share
1:08:31
that
1:08:31
do
1:08:32
give
1:08:33
some
1:08:33
kind
1:08:33
of
1:08:34
stability
1:08:36
and
1:08:37
nurture
1:08:38
the
1:08:38
creativity
1:08:39
from
1:08:40
the
1:08:40
stability
1:08:41
are
1:08:42
what
1:08:42
are
1:08:42
so
1:08:42
important.
1:08:43
It's
1:08:43
when
1:08:43
we
1:08:43
take
1:08:44
what
1:08:44
we
1:08:44
think
1:08:45
is
1:08:45
essential
1:08:46
to
1:08:46
us.
1:08:47
My
1:08:48
racial
1:08:49
essentialism
1:08:50
is
1:08:50
the
1:08:50
most
1:08:50
common
1:08:51
one
1:08:51
here.
1:08:52
You
1:08:52
know,
1:08:53
nose
1:08:54
size,
1:08:54
ear
1:08:55
size,
1:08:56
skin
1:08:57
color.
1:08:57
When
1:08:57
we
1:08:58
take
1:08:58
these
1:08:58
things
1:08:58
and
1:08:59
say
1:08:59
that
1:08:59
because
1:09:00
of
1:09:00
these
1:09:01
particular
1:09:01
biological
1:09:02
traits,
1:09:04
therefore
1:09:05
the
1:09:06
relational
1:09:06
capacity
1:09:08
is
1:09:09
only
1:09:09
ever
1:09:10
xyz.
1:09:13
That
1:09:14
is,
1:09:14
instead
1:09:14
of
1:09:15
nurturing
1:09:15
movement
1:09:16
toward
1:09:16
life
1:09:17
and
1:09:18
right
1:09:19
relationship,
1:09:19
that's
1:09:20
shutting
1:09:20
off
1:09:21
possibilities
1:09:23
before
1:09:25
they're
1:09:26
even
1:09:26
available
1:09:27
to
1:09:27
the
1:09:27
kid.
1:09:28
So
1:09:28
I
1:09:28
think
1:09:28
there's
1:09:29
real
1:09:29
value
1:09:30
and
1:09:30
stability.
1:09:31
There's
1:09:31
real
1:09:31
value
1:09:31
in
1:09:31
stable
1:09:32
narratives.
1:09:33
But
1:09:34
Those
1:09:34
stable
1:09:34
narratives
1:09:35
have
1:09:35
to
1:09:35
be
1:09:38
engaged
1:09:39
with
1:09:39
intentional
1:09:40
nurture
1:09:41
for
1:09:42
the
1:09:42
student
1:09:43
as
1:09:44
for
1:09:44
the
1:09:44
person
1:09:45
as
1:09:46
a
1:09:46
co
1:09:47
creative
1:09:47
partner
1:09:48
of
1:09:48
the
1:09:48
cosmos
1:09:49
with
1:09:49
God.
1:09:50
And
1:09:50
if
1:09:50
I
1:09:50
can
1:09:50
just
1:09:51
add
1:09:51
a
1:09:51
little
1:09:51
bit,
1:09:52
you
1:09:52
talked
1:09:52
about
1:09:52
stable
1:09:52
narratives
1:09:53
and
1:09:53
I
1:09:53
think
1:09:53
this
1:09:54
is
1:09:54
the,
1:09:54
to
1:09:55
me,
1:09:55
this
1:09:55
is
1:09:56
the
1:09:56
value,
1:09:56
this
1:09:56
is
1:09:57
the
1:09:57
fun
1:09:57
part
1:09:57
of
1:09:57
role
1:09:58
playing
1:09:58
as
1:09:58
a
1:09:59
communal
1:10:00
storytelling
1:10:01
activity.
1:10:01
Because
1:10:02
for
1:10:02
as
1:10:02
long
1:10:02
as
1:10:02
we've
1:10:03
been
1:10:03
telling
1:10:03
each
1:10:03
other
1:10:04
stories
1:10:04
as
1:10:04
a
1:10:05
species,
1:10:06
the
1:10:06
go
1:10:06
to
1:10:07
way
1:10:07
to
1:10:07
make
1:10:08
a
1:10:08
new
1:10:08
story
1:10:09
was
1:10:09
to
1:10:09
take
1:10:09
a
1:10:09
story
1:10:10
everyone
1:10:10
knows
1:10:10
and
1:10:11
then
1:10:11
change
1:10:11
something.
1:10:12
And
1:10:13
the
1:10:13
thing
1:10:13
you
1:10:13
changed
1:10:14
is
1:10:14
the
1:10:14
point
1:10:14
you're
1:10:14
making
1:10:15
that
1:10:15
is
1:10:15
the
1:10:15
new
1:10:15
story.
1:10:16
So
1:10:17
you
1:10:17
can
1:10:17
tell
1:10:18
us,
1:10:18
you
1:10:18
know
1:10:18
this,
1:10:19
you
1:10:19
know,
1:10:19
you
1:10:19
can
1:10:20
play
1:10:20
as
1:10:20
an
1:10:20
orc
1:10:21
who
1:10:21
is
1:10:21
stronger
1:10:21
and
1:10:22
you
1:10:22
know,
1:10:22
like
1:10:22
we
1:10:22
know
1:10:23
the
1:10:23
story
1:10:23
of
1:10:23
the
1:10:23
orc
1:10:24
that
1:10:24
is
1:10:24
stronger
1:10:24
and
1:10:24
dumber
1:10:25
and
1:10:25
scarier.
1:10:27
There's
1:10:27
not
1:10:27
value
1:10:28
really
1:10:28
to
1:10:29
telling
1:10:29
that
1:10:29
story
1:10:30
completely
1:10:30
straightforward.
1:10:31
Telling
1:10:31
that
1:10:32
story
1:10:32
completely
1:10:32
straightforward
1:10:33
is
1:10:34
what
1:10:34
the
1:10:35
worst
1:10:35
people
1:10:35
on
1:10:35
the
1:10:35
Internet
1:10:36
want
1:10:36
to
1:10:36
happen
1:10:36
because
1:10:37
they
1:10:37
like
1:10:38
these
1:10:38
really
1:10:38
stable
1:10:39
biological
1:10:39
narratives.
1:10:41
Dungeons
1:10:41
and
1:10:42
Dragons,
1:10:42
the
1:10:42
way
1:10:42
it
1:10:42
works
1:10:43
is
1:10:44
a
1:10:44
lot
1:10:44
of,
1:10:44
I
1:10:45
know
1:10:45
people
1:10:45
who
1:10:45
are
1:10:45
like
1:10:45
higher
1:10:46
minded
1:10:46
about
1:10:46
wanting
1:10:46
to
1:10:47
improvise
1:10:47
cool
1:10:47
stories
1:10:49
sometimes
1:10:49
don't
1:10:49
like
1:10:50
how
1:10:50
basic
1:10:50
some
1:10:50
of
1:10:51
these
1:10:51
stories
1:10:51
are.
1:10:51
They
1:10:51
don't
1:10:52
like
1:10:52
that
1:10:52
Curse
1:10:52
of
1:10:52
Strahd
1:10:53
is
1:10:53
just
1:10:53
Dracula.
1:10:54
But
1:10:55
there
1:10:55
is
1:10:55
value
1:10:55
to
1:10:56
starting
1:10:56
from,
1:10:56
we're
1:10:57
starting
1:10:57
from
1:10:57
just
1:10:57
Dracula.
1:10:58
And
1:10:58
then
1:10:59
everyone
1:10:59
in
1:10:59
here,
1:11:00
in
1:11:00
this
1:11:00
party
1:11:01
is
1:11:01
going
1:11:01
to
1:11:02
do
1:11:02
something
1:11:02
a
1:11:02
little
1:11:02
different
1:11:02
to
1:11:03
Dracula
1:11:03
and
1:11:03
that's
1:11:03
going
1:11:04
to
1:11:04
make
1:11:04
a
1:11:04
think.
1:11:05
And
1:11:05
so
1:11:06
that's,
1:11:06
you
1:11:06
know,
1:11:07
that's
1:11:07
where
1:11:07
like,
1:11:07
you
1:11:07
know,
1:11:07
the
1:11:07
biological
1:11:08
imperatives
1:11:09
at
1:11:09
the
1:11:09
beginning
1:11:10
of
1:11:10
Dungeons
1:11:10
and
1:11:10
Dragons,
1:11:11
they're
1:11:11
kind
1:11:11
of,
1:11:11
they're
1:11:12
baked
1:11:12
in.
1:11:12
And
1:11:12
even
1:11:12
if
1:11:12
you
1:11:13
call
1:11:13
them
1:11:13
ancestries
1:11:13
instead
1:11:14
of
1:11:14
races,
1:11:14
they're
1:11:14
still
1:11:15
baked
1:11:15
in.
1:11:15
You
1:11:16
can
1:11:16
move
1:11:16
your
1:11:16
plus
1:11:16
two
1:11:17
somewhere
1:11:17
else,
1:11:17
but
1:11:17
it's
1:11:17
still.
1:11:17
We
1:11:18
all
1:11:18
know
1:11:18
what's
1:11:18
going
1:11:18
on
1:11:19
here,
1:11:20
but
1:11:20
I
1:11:21
think
1:11:21
that's
1:11:21
like,
1:11:21
like
1:11:21
you
1:11:21
said,
1:11:22
engage
1:11:22
with
1:11:22
it
1:11:22
intentionally.
1:11:23
Don't
1:11:24
let
1:11:24
them
1:11:24
tell
1:11:25
a
1:11:25
story
1:11:25
about
1:11:25
themselves,
1:11:26
about
1:11:26
how
1:11:27
they're
1:11:27
destined
1:11:27
to
1:11:27
only
1:11:28
be
1:11:28
one
1:11:28
thing.
1:11:29
Let
1:11:29
them
1:11:29
change
1:11:29
one,
1:11:29
one
1:11:30
thing
1:11:30
and
1:11:31
feel
1:11:31
pushing
1:11:32
against
1:11:32
the
1:11:32
narratives
1:11:33
we
1:11:33
know
1:11:33
how
1:11:33
to
1:11:33
do.
1:11:34
And
1:11:34
that
1:11:34
role
1:11:35
playing
1:11:35
is
1:11:35
easier
1:11:35
when
1:11:36
you
1:11:36
start
1:11:36
from
1:11:36
that,
1:11:36
because
1:11:37
improv
1:11:37
is
1:11:38
hard.
1:11:39
And
1:11:39
so
1:11:39
it's
1:11:40
valuable
1:11:40
to
1:11:40
start
1:11:41
from.
1:11:41
We're
1:11:41
doing
1:11:41
Dracula.
1:11:42
You
1:11:42
are
1:11:43
an
1:11:43
orc.
1:11:43
You
1:11:43
are
1:11:43
a
1:11:44
have
1:11:44
orc.
1:11:44
So
1:11:45
you
1:11:45
kind
1:11:45
of
1:11:45
know
1:11:45
what's
1:11:46
going
1:11:46
to
1:11:46
happen
1:11:46
if
1:11:46
you
1:11:47
don't
1:11:48
change
1:11:48
anything.
1:11:49
And
1:11:49
then
1:11:49
that
1:11:50
lets
1:11:50
you
1:11:50
swoop
1:11:50
in
1:11:50
and
1:11:51
change
1:11:51
something.
1:11:51
And
1:11:52
now
1:11:52
you've
1:11:52
told
1:11:52
the
1:11:52
story,
1:11:53
now
1:11:53
you've
1:11:53
learned
1:11:53
something
1:11:54
about
1:11:54
yourself,
1:11:54
now
1:11:54
you've
1:11:55
thought
1:11:55
critically
1:11:56
about
1:11:56
this
1:11:56
thing.
1:11:57
We're
1:11:57
doing
1:11:58
great.
1:11:59
Final
1:11:59
word?
1:12:00
I.
1:12:00
Yeah,
1:12:01
I
1:12:01
think.
1:12:02
Yeah.
1:12:02
There's
1:12:02
no
1:12:02
more
1:12:03
to
1:12:03
say
1:12:03
other
1:12:04
than
1:12:05
there's
1:12:06
ways
1:12:06
to
1:12:06
find
1:12:06
us
1:12:06
to
1:12:06
keep
1:12:07
this
1:12:07
conversation
1:12:07
going.
1:12:07
We've
1:12:08
talked
1:12:08
for,
1:12:08
like,
1:12:08
an
1:12:08
hour
1:12:09
and
1:12:09
10
1:12:09
minutes,
1:12:09
and
1:12:09
we
1:12:09
could
1:12:09
probably
1:12:10
go
1:12:10
another
1:12:10
two
1:12:10
hours.
1:12:11
But
1:12:11
that's
1:12:11
what's
1:12:12
fun
1:12:12
about
1:12:12
beer
1:12:12
camp.
1:12:12
You
1:12:13
hear
1:12:13
these
1:12:13
things,
1:12:13
something
1:12:14
resonates
1:12:14
with
1:12:14
you,
1:12:14
a
1:12:15
question
1:12:15
rises
1:12:16
to
1:12:16
the
1:12:16
surface,
1:12:16
and
1:12:17
you
1:12:17
meditate
1:12:17
on
1:12:17
it,
1:12:17
you
1:12:18
reflect
1:12:18
on
1:12:18
it.
1:12:19
Reach
1:12:19
out
1:12:19
to
1:12:19
us
1:12:20
on
1:12:20
the
1:12:20
Internet
1:12:20
or
1:12:21
DM
1:12:21
us,
1:12:21
Find
1:12:22
us,
1:12:22
and
1:12:22
we'll
1:12:22
be
1:12:22
happy
1:12:22
to
1:12:22
keep
1:12:23
the
1:12:23
conversation
1:12:23
going.
1:12:24
Thank
1:12:24
you
1:12:24
all
1:12:24
for
1:12:24
being
1:12:24
here
1:12:25
and
1:12:25
being
1:12:25
a
1:12:25
part
1:12:25
of
1:12:26
our
1:12:26
story,
1:12:26
and
1:12:27
we'll
1:12:27
keep
1:12:27
adventuring
1:12:28
together
1:12:30
moving
1:12:30
forward.
1:12:31
Thanks,
1:12:31
y'all.
1:12:31
Peace.
1:12:32
Come
1:12:32
up.