Latest / Dear Chelsea / Let’s Get Married with Tim Gunn

Transcript

Let’s Get Married with Tim Gunn · Dear Chelsea

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, guys, I am officially on my High and Mighty tour.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: February nineteenth Madison, Wisconsin. February twentieth is Milwaukee, Wisconsin. February
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: twenty first, Detroit, Michigan. February twenty second, Rama, Ontario. That's
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Canada for those of you who don't speak Canadia. March thirteenth, Cleveland, Ohio.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: March fourteenth, Columbus, Ohio. March fifteenth, Cincinnati, Ohio, and then
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: March twentieth is Denver, Colorado. March twenty seventh, Portland, Maine.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: March twenty eighth, Providence, Rhode Island. March twenty ninth, Springfield, Massachusetts.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: April tenth is Chicago. I'll be at the Chicago Theater.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: April eleventh Indianapolis, Indiana. April twelfth Louisville, Kentucky. April sixteenth
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: is Albuquerque, New Mexico. April seventeenth is Mesa, Arizona. April
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: twenty third is Kansas City, Missouri. April twenty fourth is
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Saint Louis, Missouri. April twenty fifth is Minneapolis, Minnesota. April
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: thirtieth Nashville, Tennessee. May first, it is Charlotte, North Carolina.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: May second is Durham, North Carolina. May sixth I'm doing
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Netflix as a joke festival. I will be in Los Angeles.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: That is a new announcement, along with Atlantic City May fifteenth, Saratoga, California,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: May sixteenth, Monterey, California. May seventeenth, Modesto, California. And then
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: June fourth Portchester, New York. June fifth is Boston, mass
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: And June twelfth is Portland, Oregon.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: And then Seattle is June thirteenth, So suck on that. Everybody.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: Go to Chelseahandler dot com for tickets. Hi, Catherine, when
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: does Yes, Chelsea, how are you?
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: We've been?
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: I figured i'd speak Spanish.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: I'm in Jamaica right now, so I thought, I would
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: you know that's apropos of Jamaican's I'm getting all my
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: country is confused. I figure we just should start speaking
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Spanish everywhere because of bad Bunny and let all letting
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: all these white, cranky people know that it's too late.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my mom, it was.
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: This was so funny. My mom's visiting and Brad and
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: I didn't watch anything with the Super Bowl, and I
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: told her.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, we didn't really see anything.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: And my very sweet mid seventies midda night. Mother goes
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: you didn't watch Bad Bunny, and then she made me
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: turn it on and like walked me through all the symbolism,
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: and it was.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Just absolutely wonderful to walk me through all the symbolism
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: because I didn't catch all the symbolism. I never catch
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: all the symbolism in anything, in movies, in culture and art,
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: I'm always like, oh what, I'm like, I need someone
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: to I need a culture guide.
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: Yes, did you know the wedding was a real wedding,
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: the wedding that they showed.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, well, I wouldn't have except that I read that,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: so I wouldn't have known it. So I'm not I
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: feel smart sometimes and then there are many other times
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: where I just feel incredibly stupid, So I don't know.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: I'm somewhere in the middle. That's the world we live in.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: It's not your fault.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I'm excited though, because I have shows tonight.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: I'm on my way to Madison, and then I have Milwaukee,
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: and then I have Toronto Casino Rama.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: Where else do I have this weekend? Detroit?
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: That's right, I'm coming to Detroit on Saturday night, So
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: there's still tickets for that show, so definitely come.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: And there's still tickets for Milwaukee. I have started the
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: High and Mighty tour. We are on our way. My
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: listener's better. I better see all of you on tour. Okay,
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: ladies and gay men.
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: Yes, I've gotten so many emails from people who are like,
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: I'm coming to this show. I'm coming to that show.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: So it's really exciting and like say hi to people
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: when you're at the show, like meet other listeners, meet
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: other fans, like I think that's one of the most
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: fun things about going to a show like that.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I love that. I love when my
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: fans meet each other, become friends. They see I see
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: that a lot. There's a lot of women that come
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: by themselves. I'm like, you couldn't get anyone to come
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: with you, and then they hook up with each other
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh that's nice.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, Well. Our guest today is someone I'm
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: very excited.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: I know. I know as was I. I was a
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: very great conversation. Yeah.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: He is a cultural icon. Who isn't these days? Best
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: known for his role as mentor an executive producer on
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: Project Runway and making the cut and he's a former
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Chair of Fashion Design at Parsons School of Design and
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: a New York Times bestselling author whose career has been
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: rooted in elevating others with clarity, compassion and conviction.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Please welcome, Tim Gunn.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, Oh my god, Look who's here.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: I'm great. How are you doing? Tim Gunn?
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: I'm better for being with you and Catherine.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: You look like a very serious news broadcaster right now.
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: Well, thankfully I'm not a news broadcaster.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: I seriously, thank god we're not news broadcasters. I was
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: just listening to a really interesting podcast. I don't know,
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: do you ever listen to Karas Swisher and Scott Galloway
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: like Pivot or any of those.
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: Podcasts occasionally occasionally? The only one I listened to regularly
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: is yours.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, Tim, do you know what a compliment
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: that is? I love it. I love it.
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: That's really true.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Let's get married, Tim. I feel like we're on the
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: exact same page.
• 5:02
  Speaker 5: You know what.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: I oh, this is what I want to talk to
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: you about. Well, first, let me finish my thought.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: So I was on my way here today listening to
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: a podcast and it was just talking about new media
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: and how you're really kind of more untouchable when you
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: produce your own thing, you know, and you like on
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: YouTube and doing Like independent media is now on the
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: rise because of all of you know, the quashing of
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: opinions and all this old media. It's like it's so
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: stale anyway, and it's on its way out anyway. So
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: that you know, the president going after all that stuff
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: is just another reason for independent media to rise up.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: And like when people like Don Lemon who take to
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: the streets and some other great examples like Tim Dillon
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: on the Bulwark and all these different people doing their
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: own things is really getting a lot more attention. And
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: I don't know how exactly you monetize that, but there
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: is a way. So that's that's promising, and that's something
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: to you know, keep focused on in these days that
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: we're living in tim Oh.
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: These days are quite unbelievable. I just have to say,
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: I feel very fortunate and very lucky to have my
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: health and to have shelter and to be here with
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: you and Catherine.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: First of all, I want to talk to you about
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: your celibacy. Let's talk about that. That's one of the
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: reasons why I think we could make it as a
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: couple because I feel I feel like you know, there's
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: no leave you alone, there's no pressure, will enjoy each
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: other's company. We both won't have any qualms about telling
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: the other person to get the fuck out of our
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: space when we need to, and we have similar sensibilities,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: I feel like, and we don't have to worry about
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: having sex exactly.
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: It's perfect.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: How long have you been, celebate, Tim, I've been in.
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: New York for forty two years. Forty three years.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: Wow, So this was a choice that you made. Yes,
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: tell me about that choice. What will you just tell me?
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: Why? Well, I would keep a psychiatrist very busy. I
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: can say that I have.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: I'm also a psychiatrist.
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: You're a good one. I had a very serious nine
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: year relationship in Washington, DC, and I loved this person
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: deeply and would have done anything for him. And I
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: still remember the night that it all ended. We were
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: in bed watching mash It was a first run and
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: he said to me, I have no patience for you
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: any longer. I want you to leave. I had my
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: own apartment, but I had been living with him for years,
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: and I left. I drove to my apartment on Rock
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: Creek Parkway, and I had to pull off because I
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: was hyperventilating. I was beside myself with self flagellation and
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: self pity, and it was awful. And this is someone
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: I worked with, so it wasn't as though I just
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: would never see him again. And one of the things
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: that he told me that night was that he'd been
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: sleeping with just about everything that walked by, and I
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: had been loyal and faithful to him. He was the
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: only person I'd ever been with. And this is the
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: advent of AIDS. It's nineteen eighty two. Wow, And I
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: thought so. The self pity then turned to completely unbridled
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: anger because I thought he may have given me a
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: death sentence. Of course, and I was tested every six
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: months for ten years for HIV and thankfully I had
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: a clean slate.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank god.
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: But whenever I was even tempted to engage in some
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: something that could become serious with someone, all this would
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: come back like Niagara Falls, and it would just take
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: the desire away. And I have to say, being celibate
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: and being someone who lives alone was a bit of
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: an adjustment, But now I wouldn't have it any other way.
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: And COVID and the pandemic and our sequestering brought this
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: all back for me because we had to stay home,
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: and I'm probably one of the few people who really
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: loved it.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: Another thing we have in common.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: This is not a popular thing to proclaim, but I
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: also loved the beginning stages of COVID. I'm not gonna lie.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: I was slightly disappointed when people were told to go back.
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: To work again. We aren't kindred spirits. I felt the
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: same way.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: And we could imagine the funds we could co mingle.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: I feel like I'm supporting too many things in my life,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, I just want to join up with
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: someone who also has a robust bank account and we
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: can just be fair with each other so that there's
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: not so much pressure on my shoulders.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: So it's probably a better deal for me than it
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: is for you.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: But I'm just throwing it out there, and you know,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: throughout this podcast, I'll continue to remind you of the possibilities.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: I'm so sorry to hear about that relationship and what
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: a horrible ending to a relationship.
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: I'll invoke a phrase that I use all the time,
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: and my mother absolutely hated the phrase. Things happen for
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: a reason, and sometimes the reason isn't revealed at the moment.
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: It may not be revealed for days, weeks, or months,
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: or sometimes even years. But had this relationship not fallen apart,
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: I would never have moved to New York. It would
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: never have happened. In nineteen eighty two, when this relationship
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: was still ongoing, I have been offered a teaching position
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: at Parsons here in New York, and I said no.
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: I said, I'm very happy. I have no desire to
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: leave DC. But a year later, when after my life
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: had changed, Parsons called again and I said, I'll be
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: right up, and two weeks later I was living here.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: So like, how long do you think it took you
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: to get over that relationship to really truly be grateful
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: to be in your own company.
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: To that point, Well, to be honest and pun reflection,
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: I would say it was the end of that. Those
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: ten years of being tested for HIV, I thought, Okay,
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: I have a clean slate. I'm good that Every six
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: months I would have this bad of anxiety about what
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: if it took a while. You know, I occasionally relive
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: it in my head, but it doesn't hurt any longer.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Right right? I mean, I think I'm asking you this
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: because so many of our listeners call in, as you
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: may know, about these kinds of issues. When are they
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: going to get over something? How do they deal with
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: such a big loss? And it sounds like you went
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: in a certain direction and were able to heal from
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: that and feel like this has been the right decision
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: for you after a lot of reflection with I guess
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: COVID reinforcing that.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: But is there anything that you can share.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: With our listeners about coming to grips with a breakup,
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: coming out of a relationship that was a long relationship.
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: I can only reflect upon my own experiences. Really, we
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: all know that time is a great healer, but the
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: amount of time that it takes depends upon the circumstances.
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: It was helpful for me to get out of Washington
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: because I wasn't seeing him every workday.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: What was it like when you did see him after you,
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: guys broke up?
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: It was completely horrible, horrible. I wanted to I wanted
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: to kill him, yeah, and I wanted him to hurt
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: as badly as I had been hurt. He seemed to
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: be impervious to it, though, so it was just great
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: to get away. And also moving to New York, I
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: had this huge learning curve about this entirely new environment
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: and different social interactions and a completely different academic environment
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: in which I was teaching. So that was a wonderful
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: I won't even I won't say it was a distraction.
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: It was just a new beginning and it was truly new.
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: So I would say to someone who's been in a
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: long term relationship that's terminated in some way, it's good
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: to I want to say, change.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: Your job to another city and change your job. You
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: can if you look forward, to do either of those two.
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: Things, or just get a new living environment, something that
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: makes you know that things are different in more ways
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: than just this relationship going away.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: I think what you're saying is the world is so
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: much bigger than we are in that moment of defeatism,
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: you know, or broken heartedness, the world is so much bigger,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: And it's like sometimes you have to physically take yourself
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: into a new version of your world so and a
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: new part of the world geographically to understand that how
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: big the world is and how small that was, even
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: though it was massive to you. It's a blip in
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: your history now rather and because you've made such a
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: big life for yourself, did you ever make contact once
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: you hit the big time?
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: No? Yeah, god no, I haven't heard a thing. That's awesome.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: That's all fine? Yeah, yeah.
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: What's the thing they say about like success is the
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: greatest revenge.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: Success is the greatest revenge or revenge is a dish
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: best served cold?
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I agree.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: I agree with that because by the time you ever
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: get revenge, sometimes you just don't even care.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: You know, like you don't care.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: You're like, I don't care about you looking like I
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: remember breaking up with a certain boyfriend and I couldn't
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: wait until it hurt him, right, you know what I
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: mean in a way that I was like, wait until
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: you see how much you've lost. Like I'm valuable, I
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: get brought everything to this relationship.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: And you fucked it up.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: And like now when I see him, I can see
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: how much he misses me and how much he cares
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: for me and respects me. I mean, he doesn't try
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: to get back together with me, but it's very apparent.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: And I don't get any pleasure from.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: That because you moved on, you know what I mean.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: I'm just like, oh, I told I knew it and
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: it came true. And I think that's true for so
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: many of us. You know, by the time you get
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: what you were looking for, it's a little too late.
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: I agree.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: So Tim, tell me, Okay, you have one of the
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: most distinctive voices in television, so I want to because
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: I have a distinctive voice. So and when I'm sometimes talking,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: I could be on a ski hill, covered in ski
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: gear with the face mask on, and people will hear
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: me and be like Chelsea, and I'm like, what the fuck?
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: I can only imagine how annoying it must be for
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: you living in Manhattan and going out to restaurants. I mean,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: what is it like when people hear your voice and
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: don't even see your face?
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: Chelsea? All this incredible phenomenon happened after I turned fifty.
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: Oh and that was twenty two years ago. So I
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: am delighted to have people shout out or say hello.
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: I consider it to be really a great honor. And
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: it doesn't not only doesn't bother me, it actually kind
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: of invigorates me. Oh great, still I've still got something. Yeah,
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: but it's very flattering.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you look very sharp today. Also, I would
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: like to know how what do you sleep in? I
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: would like to know what Tim Gunn's wardrobe for nighttime is.
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: I sleep in a white V necked shirt and J
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: krue pajama.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: Bottoms, okay, with a cigar in.
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: Your hand, maybe a Manhattan.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: I like the idea of falling asleep with a Manhattan
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: in one hand and a star and sleeping with your
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: arms over your head all night to protect to protect
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: your property. I want to ask you, what do you think?
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: I hate trends? Okay, I hate fashion trends. I fucking
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: hate it, and I know you do, and so I
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: I what is the what? Let's think about what you
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: think is the most annoying fashion trend of the last
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: five years?
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: Well, for me, it's easy to say. Okay, though the
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: more I say it, the more ubiquitous this item becomes.
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: And I know it's kind of hackneyed now, But in
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: God's Great Kingdom, how did leggings become a pant?
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: I know?
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: How did it happen?
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: I agree?
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: I agree, I don't understand. I don't remember when people
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: used to get dressed up to go to the airport.
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: Yes I miss those days.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Yes, I mean that was a little bit before my time,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: but I remember watching planes, like you're a little bit
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: older than me. But when I remember watching like love
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Boat and those kinds of things, and you saw the
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: way people would travel for vacations. And you don't need that,
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: Like you don't need to be in a three piece
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: suit to get on an airplane. I'm not suggesting that,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: but be decent and respectful of others, Like don't have
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: your skin out, you know what I mean, Joe.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: Why do you want your skins watching the airplane?
• 17:34
  Speaker 6: No?
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: No, no, yeah, don't be in flip flops on a plane,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: Like there should be some sense of decorum. I think
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: I've approached almost every airline and offered to make an
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: etiquette video, but I think because I'm such a divisive figure,
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: they're like, no, you're not the one.
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: Yes you are.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: I would take it.
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: I'd take advice from you any day.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. And every flight attendant asks me
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: to do it. They're all like, please, Chelsea, do something,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, I'm here on this flight during the
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: next five hours. If you have any issue use with anyone,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: please I'll handle it. I like to intervene and be
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: an interloper in situations that.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Don't involve me at all. That's a bad fashion trend.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: I also think when trends change every six months, it's
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: like when people take that seriously, I find that very annoying.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: It happens with language as well.
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: I call people who chase trends fashion victims. Yes, yes,
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: And I'm always saying to people, don't chase trends unless
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: it's something that really appeals to you, that pulls at
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: your heart strings. And also you and Catherine know it's
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: fashion's pendulum and it's retails pendulum. They want us to
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: buy stuff, so they've got to keep changing things up.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: What do you think the best fashion trend of the
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: last five years has been.
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: I don't know that there's been one. Honestly, it's been
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: the slopification of dressing ath leisure rising. I don't understand it.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Yes, leisure is gross because it's also it's intimating that
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: you just worked out and also are in.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: The public walking around, even at the.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Hotel I stay at in New York. And next time
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: I come to New York, we're going out for a drink. Tim,
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you drink love it, but you
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: can watch.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Me drink do you drink?
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: Do I drink?
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: You drink right, please, I'm a hairshet being an alcoholic.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, great, great, we're on the same another thing. Okay,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: so we're yeah, we're gonna go. I'm gonna give you
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: my MAUD number because we need to have a drink.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: As enjoyable as this is, I'm going to want more
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: of you. Oh at leisure where, yeah, that intimates that
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: you are are infers that you.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: Came from or work at.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: And when I stay at my hotel in New York
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: that I stay at, I only stay at one hotel.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: I love it. It's the best hotel.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: I wish I could say with the name of it
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: to promote them, but I don't want any more people
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: there anyway. They have like a club lounge, you know,
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: where you get to go and have breakfast or cocktails
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: or whatever you're in the mood for dinner or lunch.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: And even when I go to the gym, which is
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: on the same floor as that club lounge, if I
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: go into the breakfast room or the club lounge in
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: my outfit from working out, it is only to retrieve
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: a water or get a green jruice. I would never
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: sit down in those chairs after a workout. I find
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: that repugnant. I find that people who were walk around,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: especially when you're a woman, because you have fucking wet
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: vagina states swamp ass, Yes, swamp ass, and walking around
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: in public after a workout. You have to go home,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: do charse a and then go out into the street
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: and the leisure where that you see on planes.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: Same goes for that.
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: Your basic agree.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: You're basically saying I worked out, even though you know
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: most people are wearing it without working out too.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: It's like I worked out and now I'm ready to relax.
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: I have to share an anecdote. I work out with
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: a fitness trainer, usually once a week, sometimes twice. We
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: work out in Central Park and I wear my workout clothes,
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: which I only own because of Jason and the fact
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: that I work out with him. So I was walking
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: from my apartment on the Upper West Side to the
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: park and a woman stopped me and she said, how
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: dare you? I said, I'm sorry, She said, how dare
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: you wear these clothes? This is exactly what you tell
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: people not to wear. And I said, I'm going to
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: work out. I am not going out to lunch. I'm
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: not going shopping. I am working out.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly everything. The lines have been blurred about
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: a lot of things. Thank god for your voice. Now,
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: you were in the room when Heidi Klum put on
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: her famous worm costume. Yes, I don't know why I'm
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: putting up quotation marks. I don't know what that's about.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: But you were there, and at any point during that
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: did you think what the fuck are you doing?
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: The entire time? The entire time, I thought, what the
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: fuck are you doing?
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: And did you advise her? Did you tell her.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: What you thought?
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: Well, it was too late. I only believe in telling
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: people about things that they can change. She was already
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: many hours into this costume. And what I really wanted
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: to ask is how are you going to move in
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: this thing? You're going to have to writhe on the
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: floor like a like a.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: Worm, like a worm.
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: It wasn't pretty.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it wasn't. It was very silly. A lot
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: of people liked it. What do you think about dressing
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: up for Halloween?
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: Well, I don't do it, but i've for the last
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: five six years, and this will be the sixth or
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: seventh year I've been a host of the New York
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: public libraries. Halloween party. Oh nice, And you have to
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: come dressed as a literary figure or a book or something,
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: so it stimulates the brain. And I love it, and
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: people become they get very very ambitious.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Well that's very different. That's different. That's not a Yeah,
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: that's not an.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Adult like high level prostitute slash nurse party, you know.
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: No.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't rent appeal to me.
• 22:51
  Speaker 6: No.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: And if you could dress up as an author, then
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: you could basically just do whatever address the way you're
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: dressing anyway, or as a writer or as a literary figure.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: Tell me what your favorite fashion city is in the world.
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: Oh, New York really, And I say that because this
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: city accepts you however you want to dress. It's very
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: very democratic in that way. And you'll stand at a
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: street corner with thirty nine other people and no two
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: people are dressed alike. And I love that about the city.
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: They're fashion Capital's Paris, London, Milan Rome that they tend
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: to be somewhat formulaic, and people at a certain levels
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: tend to all look the same, right, And I enjoy
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: I enjoy the fact that the city is so incredibly diverse.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good point.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: I guess, you know, at a certain level, like the
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: wealthiest people all kind of start to dress the same.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a uniform almost right, agreed, Yeah that makes sense.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: So what was it like when Project Runway.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Approached you and you became after your first season, the
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: biggest breakout star.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: How did that hit you?
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: Well? Do you know the story of how it all happened?
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: I don't.
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: I was chair of the fashion design department at Parsons.
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: It was January of two thousand and four. The producers
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: called me to say that they wanted to come to
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: my office and speak to me about this reality show
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: they wanted to do about fashion, and my response was
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: the following. I said, fashion reality. I said, this industry
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: has enough trouble without that, and they said, well, just
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: let us come. We'll only require ten minutes. So I
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: googled them this is what I'm always grateful for Google,
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: and found out that they were the Project green Light producers.
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: So Ben Affleck Matt Damon a reality show about making movies,
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: and somebody thought, well, they have a lot of integrity
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: and a seriousness of purpose. So they came and I
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: became instantly seduced when they said that they wanted to
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: work with real fashion designers, not pick people at rad
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: them off the street and say you, well, make you
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: a designer. And I got excited, and then I didn't
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: hear anything for months, and then there was an abrupt
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: phone call saying, we really do want to work you
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: through it. Now. This was in a capacity as a consultant.
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: My role on the show did not exist. It was
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: in no one's vocabulary. So two days before the designers
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: were arriving, the producers asked me whether I would be
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: willing to go into the workroom and ask them what
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: they're doing, and I said, well, it's how I've spent
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: most of my life, so sure. But I never dreamed
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: i'd be in the cut of the show. I thought,
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: as long as they had the designers responding to me,
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: no one needs to see me, no one needs to
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: hear my voice. And accordingly I didn't go to the
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: premiere party. I thought, well, if I'm not in the show,
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: it'll be rather humiliating. And if I am in the show,
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: what is this show? Is it? Sexual antics? In the
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: apartment building where the designers are staying, because I will
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: also tell you our first five seasons were on Bravo
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: when we were taping season one. Well, no one certainly
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: knew who I was, including Bravo. So I'm standing in
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: the real and metaphorical dark of the of the Parsons
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: auditorium where we were taping the fashion show and the
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: judges deliberation, and this woman standing next to me I
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: didn't know, turned to me and said, who's going to
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: want to watch this? This is like watching paint dry?
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: And I said to her, you were corroborating my worst fears.
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: So after she left, I asked someone who was that
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: grumpy gus and they said, oh, that's Lauren's Eelasnik, the
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: president of Bravo.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Oh how funny, I know, Laura, Yeah for sure. So
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: what happened?
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Are you are able to talk about what happened with
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: Project Runway or is that not?
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Do you not want to talk about that?
• 26:48
  Speaker 7: Oh?
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: I can talk about anything with you.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, what happened?
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: Are you thinking of something specific?
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean you're not doing the show anymore.
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: I'll be perfectly transparent about it. I was invited to
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: the party.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: I see.
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: My agent called the producers to say, we understand, how
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: do you signed up? We haven't heard a thing about
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: Tim and they said we don't want him.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry.
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah wow. I mean it was devastating at first, but
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: as I said earlier, things happened for a reason, huh.
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: And I feel extremely lucky to have had nineteen seasons
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: of the show sixteen with Heidi, and I have a
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: beautiful Emmy sitting on my kitchen counter. Yeah, so no complaints.
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: I feel very very very lucky.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: Great. Great.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, listen, you got a lot out of that show,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: and that show got a lot out of you.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: So many people, especially queer people.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Have such a role model in you, and you've set
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: such a high standard for so many queer people and
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: regular people too. But you really are somebody that so
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: many queer people look up to. I wonder when you
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: were growing up, did you have any one you looked
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: up to?
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: It was so hard And I grew up in the
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: fifties and the sixties. There were the decorators in the
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: Doris Day movies who were not role models I wanted
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: to have. There was Paul Lynde as Uncle Arthur un Bewitched.
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: Everyone was very flamboyant, and I thought, that's not who
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: I am. But I will also say it wasn't until
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: my late teens that I came to terms with my sexuality.
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: I knew what I wasn't before then, but I didn't
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: know what I was, and no role models in that
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: regard were non existent.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: I have to say yeah.
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: And also, homosexuality was considered a mental illness until the
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: American Medical Association or the American Psychiatric Association, whichever it was,
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: removed it from the list in nineteen seventy two. So
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: the whole time I was growing up, it was thought
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: that this is something that's extremely bad and needs to
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: be cured.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: It's unimaginable to think, I mean, even now that we're
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: in this kind of administration and all of these things
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: are up in the air, it's just unimaginable to think
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: about a time growing up that like what a muzzle
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: that puts on so many people?
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: What a muzzle? You know?
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: It is to have a government tell you something is
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: illegal that you that is a natural feeling in your body,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: like that is a it's perfectly natural to have someone
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: say no, that's that's not true.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: You're not real, your feelings are invalid.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: We decide I can't get over that, Like I can't
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: get over government's interference and choices like that.
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: I can't.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: It's just crazy. It's like, you don't want an abortion,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: then don't get one. You don't want to be gay,
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: then don't be gay. You don't have to be gay.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: No one is making people be gay or transition. Nobody.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: That's not true. It's not true.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: It's all just it's all crazy, you know. I wonder
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: what you think about this. I have an older gay
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: gentleman in my life, and I remember, like a couple
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: of years ago, we were in London and he was
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: bemoaning the whole trans movement, saying that it's really hurtful
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: to include them the LGBTQ community, And I was like,
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: wait a second. You guys went through this yourselves, like
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: in the nineties.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: What are you talking about? How could you possibly not
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: want to invite everyone in?
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: So I'm interested to hear your take on that, which
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: I guess is you obviously support transitional people.
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: Oh I do. I will say, though, I'll confess something
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: that I actually stand by. This happened years ago. I
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: was asked by a fashion publication how I feel about
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: trans women walking the runway during fashion week, and I said,
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: and I stand by it still, I said, I'm not
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: a fan. And the reason I'm not a fan is
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: because the fashion industry is always looking for a muse
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: who defies a woman's shape. And you know, we've had
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: eating disorders, and we had lengthening that was happening in
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: the Eastern Europe, anything to make the model look longer, taller, skinnier,
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: and in the case of a male who's transitioned to female,
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: there are no hips. And that was my objection. I'm
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: all for. I'm a huge supporter of trans individuals. I'm
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: about a young trans woman I used to fence with
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: has since this new administration gone undercover. But it's the
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: intimidation of this administration.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: As if it's not enough of a struggle to deal
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: with an issue alone that you need. You know, I
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: have so many friends who have children who are trans
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: and the worry and the fear and the constant daily
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: fear of something happening. You're already scared when you put
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: a child out into the world. It's already scary. It's
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: scary to have your kids go to school and possibly
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: get shot. It's scary to get you know, have your
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: kids be out in public when you don't. When we
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: live in such an unsafe country right now, and people are,
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: you know, using violence to express themselves. Imagine having that
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: muzzle be put on you like as if, as if
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: you can choose to not have those feelings. It's just
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: it's so sickening on every level. On a much lighter note,
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: I had no idea you were a fencer.
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, wow. I started fencing very late in life,
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: at age sixty two, so ten years ago.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: Oh damn, that's so cute.
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: It's a fantastic sport. It's a workout for the body
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: and a workout for the brain. Now with a tremendously
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: long history, it's wonderful.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, that is cool.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: I need to learn a little bit more about fencing.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: I'm not educated enough about fencing.
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: Well I wasn't either, Chelsea. It's been a tremendous education.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: What got you interested in fencing?
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: I was being interviewed by a very dynamic young man
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: and I didn't know anything about him, and he shared
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: with me that he's a three time Olympian and a
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: silver medalist in fencing, and that he had just opened
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: a fencing club on the Upper side it's at the
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: Upper West Side, that's my neighborhood. So I went to
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: visit him, and I was enraptured with this activity, this action,
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: all of it, including the uniform. And I became his
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: eighth student. He now has over four hundred. Yeah. So
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: I was there at the inception of this club, and
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: it's just it's very, very thrilling. It's also well, I
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: have to tell you. On Sundays, we all arrive at
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: the club, I mean those who want to participate, sorry,
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: or this is our church. In fact, it's in a
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: synagogue the club. So you bout everyone at the club
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: on Sunday, regardless of age or gender. And I'm old,
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: I'm slow, I know it. And this is a speedy sport,
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: at least saber fencing is. I've only won one bout
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: and it was against a nine year old girl who
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: was about three and a half fay till Aria Aria.
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: And I have to tell you, I in the middle
• 34:10
  Speaker 4: of this bout, and you have to score five points
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: to win. In the middle of this about I thought,
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: should I throw.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: It to her?
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: Should I? But I have this this crazy lust for winning.
• 34:25
  Speaker 4: I thought, I've never been this close to actually winning this,
• 34:29
  Speaker 4: and I thought I can't do it. So after I won,
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: she burst into tears. I give her a hug, I
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: go to her mother, and I apologize at any rate
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: I persist, but I Aria is still She left the
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: club and I see her occasionally in the neighborhood.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: For Aria. For Aria, you know what, it's a great
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: story for both of you.
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: I have a quick question about Like, since you've been
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: working out, you've been fencing, obviously your musculature has changed.
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: You know, you've got your traps, they're poppin'.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: Have you had to have your suits tailored?
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: Well? I buy off the rack, but they are tailored. Okay, Okay, yeah,
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: I don't do custom Okay.
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: And has that changed, Like as your body's changed with
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: working out and putting on more muscle.
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: Well, my trainer, Jason knows that I'm not interested in
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: building muscle. I'm more interested in retaining and gaining strength.
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: And I started practicing intermittent fasting. I only eat once
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: a day to keep everything off. Because the older you get,
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: the less human tabolize. So even if you're just following
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: the same routine, the same diet, you get bigger. And
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: I can't afford a new wardrobe.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: I mean you look good.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: So yeah, Okay, we're going to take a break and
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: we're going to be right back with Tim Gunn. And
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: now we're back with Tim Gunn and we're going to
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: take some questions. Which is I'm assuming it's going to
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: be your favorite part of this show.
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: Well, our first question comes from Ross. This one's just
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: an email. He's a steer Chelsea. My new is Ross
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: and I'm a twenty nine year old gay man living
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: in NYC and working at a multi brand fashion showroom.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: My job is amazing.
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: I get to meet new people, travel to Paris four
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: times a year, get free clothes, and work directly with designers.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: Wow, I work sounds great?
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, what's the problem.
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: So I work on the women's team, and I have
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: two coworkers who have quickly become some of my best friends.
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: I've been on the team the longest two and a
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: half years, and the other two are roughly the one
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: year mark. I recently found out that I make about
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: twelve thousand dollars less than they do for the exact
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: same job, same title, same workload. I'm starting to feel
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: resentful of my job and the people I work with
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: and do not know what to do. Do I ask
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: for more money, set an ultimatum, do I just leave?
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: I feel like everyone I talked to has a different perspective.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: And solution, and I'm feeling lost. Would love your advice, Ross, Tim,
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: Would you like to go first?
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: Well, I have a fair amount of experience with this,
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: to be perfectly honest.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, this is interesting. This is the reverse of what
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: I normally hear.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: And I'm wondering if this is a gay male thing,
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: like are gay men getting paid less than women?
• 37:21
  Speaker 6: Right?
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: Because the women in this situation are.
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: In my experience. My experience goes back to Parsons, where
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: I was for twenty four years, the last seven and
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: a half of which I was chair of the fashion program.
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: Prior to that, I had been teaching, and later in
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: my term at Parsons, I had an additional responsibility as
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: associate dean, and as associate dean, department chairs reported to me,
• 37:46
  Speaker 4: for instance, and full time faculty, so I knew what
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: people made and the department chairs made a fair amount
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: of money, certainly more than I made. But I was
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: an associate dean it was completely different. So then I
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: become the chair of fashion design. There are two hundred
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: and thirty students, it grows to more than eight hundred.
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: I'm making so much less than the other department chairs,
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: and I know why. It's because they're moving forward my
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: salary and they can only add a certain percentage to
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: it from when I started, and new people coming in
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: were always making more money. There were full time faculty
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: at Parsons in my department who were making more money
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: than I was, so revenge can be very sweet. I
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: was going through a reappointment review, which happens supposedly every
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: five years, but mine had been postponed because of the
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: department growth and things changing in the department rather dramatically,
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: and that was my doing with the faculty, so I
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: was up for reappointment review. And when I was associate dean,
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: I oversaw reappointment reviews, so I knew intimately what one
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: had to do. And I kept being told that I
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: had to bring the dean the broomstick of the wicket,
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: which of the west, and I kept doing it until
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: we reached an impasse where I thought, I can't do this.
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: I'm not able to do what you want me to do.
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: But I'm said it to myself. At the same time,
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: the CEO of Liz Claiborne had come across the street.
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: We're across the street from each other too, and drop
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: this incredible surprise in my lap. He wanted me to
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: be his first hire and his chief creative officer over
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: forty six brands. And I had this wonderful revenge moment
• 39:40
  Speaker 4: with the Dean where I made an appointment to see him.
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: I brought him an envelope and he asked me, is
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: this what I want? And I said, I am absolutely
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: certain it's what you want? And what He had been
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: asking me for commendations from fashion educators in Europe, and
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: I thought I know one person, but he said, well,
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: I'm very disappointed. I need three, and I thought this
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: is total bs. So I loved watching him open the
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: envelope as he realized that this was my letter of resignation.
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: And I got back to my office and the president
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: of the university called and was screaming, you owe me
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: a year, You owe me a year. I said, you know,
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: I've been here for twenty four years. You owe me
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: a bull shanz But what's the moral here? I don't
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: believe in ultimatums. I believe that this young man should
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: shop himself around the industry and look for another opportunity,
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: because it's demoralizing to know that people who came in
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: after you are making so much more.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: But also there's no harm in asking, is there? I mean,
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: why not ask first and say I know that they're
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: making more more than me. So like did they did?
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: He say they came in after him?
• 41:03
  Speaker 6: Yeah?
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like a year and a half.
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: I mean, and you could do both.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: You could ask and the shop or absolutely to what
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: Tim is saying, but also ask you never know. I mean,
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, they've already indicated that they don't respect you
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: because they're paying these.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Two women more.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: But there is no harm in asking, And you know,
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: it's good. It's a good I think it's a good
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: exercise to ask.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: For what you are.
• 41:22
  Speaker 7: Well.
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: I don't disagree at all. In fact, I agree. It's
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: nice though to have something in your back pocket. Yeah,
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: because until I started making more money in a matter
• 41:34
  Speaker 4: of speaking, because I want you to know the first,
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: when I'm still a persons, I was making almost nothing
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: off a project run money. So it wasn't as though,
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: oh I have this additional incime and I'm double dipping.
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: It's nice to have something in your back pocket, just
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: in case, because I always thought if I lose my job,
• 41:53
  Speaker 4: I can't afford my rent. I mean, I'll really be destitute.
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: So it's a better fuck you if in fact the
• 42:03
  Speaker 4: negotiating meeting, if it goes awry, you can just walk
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: and just say, okay, I'm out of here now. And
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: you know what's interesting, going back to my situation at Parsons,
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: they could have offered me more money. It wouldn't have
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: to be as much as Liz Claiborne was offering. If
• 42:23
  Speaker 4: it had been twenty thousand dollars, I would have stayed.
• 42:27
  Speaker 4: Was because I enviisioned my entire life remaining at Parson
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: or my working life remaining at Parsons. There was no
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: effort towards that. None. I'll also tell you that Diane
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: Van Persenberg is a dear friend, and she was a
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: board member at Parsons. And after the call from the president,
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: I received a call from her and she said, you
• 42:47
  Speaker 4: can't do this. You've done so much work in the
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: fashion department, You've repositioned it. And I said, Diane, let
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: me cut to the chase, and I told her how
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: much I was making, and she said, without missing a
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: beat leave now. It's good happen, but there was never
• 43:01
  Speaker 4: an effort to pay more.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, of course, because people are going to get
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: away with whatever they can get away with, right.
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: Right, Ross, Well, you have your answer and good luck.
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: Our first caller today is Sydney and she's twenty eight
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: Sydney sweetye, and.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: I would like to talk to her. Actually, she says,
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: you're Chelsea.
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: I've been with my boyfriend for five years. Our life
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: is pretty good, except for our sex life. We started
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: dating when we were both twenty three years old and
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: have hit the many young adult milestones together, job and career,
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: bouncing grief, living with a partner for the first time,
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: losing friendships, et cetera. At the beginning, our sex life
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: was fun, but after the one year mark, it just
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: fell off. He does not show outward interest, even though
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: he says he thinks about it often. He has expressed
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: his lack of insight on what he thinks about his sexuality.
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: He grew up Catholic but no longer practices, and was
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: taught that it was a bad thing, so he hadn't
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: taken the time to discover what it could look like
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: for him. He told me that It was honestly easier
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: in the beginning when we were casually hooking up because
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: love was an involved yet. But now that he loves
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: and respects me, the way he cares doesn't align with
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: how he viewed sex. Then I figured once we settled
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: into real adult life that part would work itself out.
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: But now we barely have sex. I've tried asking pointed questions,
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: giving him space, tried telling him to man up, tried
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: the nurturing approach. We've tried therapy.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: I've asked if.
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: He just never wants to have sex, because then at
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: least I would have an answer, and nothing has worked.
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: He does have OCD and says things like I want
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: it to be spontaneous, but I also want to feel
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: clean and prepared. He acknowledges that those two things clash,
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: and I can tell he knows he's disappointing me. We
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: talk about it a lot, but I am tired of
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: talking and I just want to fuck like the girl
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: I used to be in the past. There's a lot
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: of love in this relationship despite this. We live well together,
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: have a great group of friends, have future goals, and
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: we're touchy with each other. But it's cute, not sexy.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: I do love him.
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: Dearly dating and men in general are both scary as
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: fuck and if a guy ticks all the boxes, but
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: one should we really break up over this?
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: Sydney Hi, this is our special guest him gun Hi Hi, Sydney.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: So Tim celibate. I'm celibate in the moment.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: Catherine probably at sex on her way here today with
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: her husband. He also works on the podcast and they're
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: very horny, especially in the car. Okay, so you're not married?
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: No? Right? And how how long have you guys been
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: together in total? Five years?
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, sex is a pretty big box to check
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: for you. I started out with Tim being celibate because
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: that's not important to him as like as it is
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: to you, and for me it would be important in
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: a relationship because that would be one of my primary
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: reasons to be in a relationship, would be for the sex.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, that would be a big component, you know
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: what I mean.
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: I would expect to be having sex on a very
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: regular basis. Otherwise I can hang out with my girlfriends.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: So it's not just one box that he's not checking.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: It's basically one of the kind of foundational aspects of
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: a relationship is sexual contact and that can mean a
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: variety of things. But if you're not satisfied, then that's
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: not going to change. And if you've been down the
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: road of therapy, you've been down the road of trying
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: different things and you know, doing different things. Like are
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: you ready to actually like leave a relationship over this?
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 46:14
  Speaker 6: Like I think that my views have changed a little
• 46:17
  Speaker 6: bit because it doesn't feel as important as.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: It used to. And we do.
• 46:21
  Speaker 6: We do have sex, it's just not maybe as often
• 46:24
  Speaker 6: as I would want. And when we do have sex,
• 46:26
  Speaker 6: it's really good, Like I'm having a good tis great.
• 46:30
  Speaker 6: No part of me is thinking like maybe I need
• 46:33
  Speaker 6: to I think I've been pushing him so much to
• 46:35
  Speaker 6: get to my level and like maybe I need to
• 46:39
  Speaker 6: think about me for a while.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would think that, you know, listen, that doesn't
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: ever work in relationships when we're trying to force something
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: on somebody else, It doesn't work that way. It's kind
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: of like you change your behavior and people change their
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: behavior because of your change and your behaviors. That's what happens.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: So I would definitely say to do that and focus
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: on yourself. Is there any world in which it would
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: be acceptable to you and or to him to have
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: sex outside of the relationship.
• 47:06
  Speaker 6: No, not him.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: He's been cheated on before, like in the past.
• 47:10
  Speaker 6: I think that that would never be like he would
• 47:13
  Speaker 6: never be comfortable, right.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, well then you have that answer, so you're not
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: going to do that, So okay, so your options are
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: to stay in the relationship. I think, why don't you
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: start with this instead of making like some decision about
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: your relationship, why don't you just really pull back the
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: pressure mode and really catch yourself, like really start focusing
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: on all of the attributes of.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: His that you do appreciate and that you do love.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: Remind yourself on a daily basis, write him down every
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: morning the three things you love about him? Write that
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: down every morning, Like what do you like about him today?
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: What was the highlight of your day with him? What
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: was a great moment that you had with him? And
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: do that for a month to just really get like
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: a catalog of where you are in this relationship and
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: if this is something worth fracturing the relationship or if
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: it's something you can live with.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: But also.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: That if you do pull back, you are going to
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: get a different response.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: From him. Definitely.
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: Nobody wants to be pressured and felt, be bade to
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: feel guilty, especially when it's about them performing.
• 48:13
  Speaker 6: I think if I like gotten my dom er, he
• 48:16
  Speaker 6: would really appreciate that well.
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: And that is another big question, is like is there
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: a world in which, like he is, it's not about
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: his pleasure necessarily, but like you're in the mood and
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: he can pleasure you. You guys can do that together
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: and then like he's off the hook, like he doesn't
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: have to perform in that way.
• 48:33
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I think he would be happier if that was me,
• 48:36
  Speaker 6: if I was the one that was just like it's time,
• 48:38
  Speaker 6: I think. But I've never been that person, so well.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: That's another option. I think that's a great option. It's
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: a really good solution. And even though that was.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: An option until you guys just brought it up so
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: you had the answer to your own question, why are
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: you calling you.
• 48:51
  Speaker 6: Well, I don't know how to be a domb ah.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: You don't know how to be am. Have you watched
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: Dying for Sex? Oh?
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: Yes I have? Okay, great, you can do what she did.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: I mean that was you know, that was it? You
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: can say hey, I'm coming home. I want you to
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: go down on me like I've had a long day,
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: let's go. I'm gonna go take a shower, whatever, And
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: then you could go down on me for twenty minutes
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: or thirty or a fucking hour, like you make the
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: rules like that. So there's two options you can and
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: you can try both of these approaches. You can pull back,
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: like let it, you know, give it some space. That's
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: talk about sex before you get into your dom era.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: Give it a few months, you know what I mean.
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: Just pull back, don't pressure him, don't make sex a priority,
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: just you know, just do your thing and.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: See where that takes you.
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: If in a couple of months nothing has changed, then
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: you I think you should propose that you and learn
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: about it, read about it, go online and read all
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: you can. I mean most people don't start out that
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: way as doms. They learn about it and they're like, oh,
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: this sounds like a me. I just listen to a
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: great podcast about this woman who is domb and I
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: was like, oh, she's like an extreme marathon her and
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: she just like loved I mean, well she was into
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: BDSM too so, but she was extreme marathon and she
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: loved the pain in her body that she felt from
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: like hurting herself and hurting herself, and she wanted to
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: feel that in the bedroom and she wanted to feel
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: This is a little bit different than what you're talking about. Obviously,
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: it's another extension. But and I was like listening to
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: this podcasts. It's that New York Times podcast that talks
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: about relationships, and I was like, oh, I have a friend.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: I've sent it to my friend who's an extreme marathon
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: or she's like, I'm not into this shit, don't send
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: this to me.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: But it was interesting.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: She found out she didn't like it, but you know,
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: she tried it and that was BDSM. So she was
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: really trying to like, you know, be in pain and
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: hurt herself, which is not what you're describing.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: So there's a delineation.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I would say give try some different things
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: to get some different results.
• 50:43
  Speaker 6: Definitely, I agree.
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: Is he in any kind of treatment for his OCD.
• 50:49
  Speaker 4: No.
• 50:50
  Speaker 6: I think we hit a kind of a wall in
• 50:52
  Speaker 6: our therapy sessions and we're going to go to do
• 50:55
  Speaker 6: kind of individual for a while. I think it's time
• 50:58
  Speaker 6: to stop that part and do some self work.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: I think that's a good plan, because you know, if
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: this is sort of a something that's caused by OCD.
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: Just like getting a handle on some of that for
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: him and getting some tools might be really helpful in
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: this area as well as other areas.
• 51:13
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and I think for me, like I'm way too
• 51:17
  Speaker 6: tuned into his tendencies of just like the way he
• 51:20
  Speaker 6: likes things and so like, if I see like him
• 51:24
  Speaker 6: dissatisfied in his environment, it also pulls me out of it.
• 51:28
  Speaker 6: But that's also not my responsibility. So I've kind of
• 51:31
  Speaker 6: had a hard time, Like.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: That's something to bring up in therapy because that's just codependency,
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: you know. So yeah, talk to your therapist about that,
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: and just and like do what I suggested, give everything
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: a decent amount of time, give it a month, give
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: it two months, and then and see if anything changes, and.
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: Keep us posted.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay, okay, bye, thank you bye, thank you bye.
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: That was genius advice.
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: Oh Tim, stop it.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, have I been more compatible with any guests
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: that I've ever had on? Oh Mar, everything that you said? Honestly, Hi, Dug,
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: I have my dog here. I wish you could see him.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: He's so bad, so good looking, and he's so stylish.
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: She's very sweet. He is stylish. He's not that sweet.
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: Actually he was sweet to me today, which women women,
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: but men He's like, no thanks, which is I wonder where.
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: That comes from?
• 52:21
  Speaker 4: Is he a certain breed?
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a chow chow and he's all black, so
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: I haven't had a black chow chow yet. So he
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: is gorgeous.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 52:31
  Speaker 4: Well.
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: Our second caller today is Sarah and she is wondering
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: about purpose and her subject line is how much purpose is.
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: Too much purpose? Great question.
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: Dear Chelsea and Catherine, thank you so much for putting
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: your time and energy into this podcast. I'm writing to
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: ask about purpose and more specifically, how you identify what
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: your purpose is and how to know how much time
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: and energy you want to put into a specific activity.
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: A bit of background, I'm currently being treated for a
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: stage four metastatic colon cancer. Last year, I was diagnosed
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: with stage three colon cancer after or what I thought
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: was going to be my forty five year old preventive
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: care colidoscopy. Instead, the next months included surgery followed by
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: twelve rounds of chemotherapy over six months. I thought that
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: would be it, but three months after finishing chemo, my
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: early detection surveiling indicated that the cancer had returned. More
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: testing confirmed metastases in a lymph node, and I was
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: put on another course of chemo for another six months.
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: I currently have a couple treatments left to go before
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: they determined next steps. During the time of shock and
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: fear of the recurrence, I came across researched back to
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: Anti Cancer Living book and my husband and I read it.
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: We made lifestyle changes and took on a mantra of
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: moving forward by saying yes to new opportunities, like selling
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: our house and moving into an apartment in the French
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: Quarter in New Orleans and taking a last minute trip
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: to Las Vegas to see Beyonce. All that said, in
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: the ten days between my chemo treatments, I feel better
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: than ever and I have in my adult life. On
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: those days, I'm operating at one hundred percent, and I
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: realized before my diagnosis I was consistently at seventy five percent.
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: This experience of being a cancer patient, which I still
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: find hard to write or say out loud, has left
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: me asking what is my purpose in this? I've learned
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: so much about the importance of getting kolonoscopies as soon
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: as you can navigating treatments and finding paths to feel
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: good that I want to share, but I'm not sure
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: how much time and energy to put into the sharing?
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: Is sharing with close friends and family enough? Do I
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: want to write more of this down and share it
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: with my broader community? How much time and energy do
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: I want to put into this? Any guidance on how
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: you decide what is the right amount of time and
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: energy for you to put into a project or purpose
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: would be much appreciated. Love all your work, but especially
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: this pod which I often put on during chemo treatments
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: to drown out the folks blaring Fox News in the
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: Infusion center. Love you, Sarah Ah.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: I can't even imagine having to deal with that and
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: then listening to Fox News. Jesus Hi Sarah Hi, beautiful
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: human being. This is our special guest, Tim gunn oh
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: Hi Dam Sarah.
• 54:51
  Speaker 4: You are a beautiful human being and quite a hero.
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: I mean just that letter alone. Listen.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: I love this question because you are You are living
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: proof that you need to be living.
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: While you're here, live live it up. I love to
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: Vegas and went to go see Beyonce. I love that
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: you gave up your house about an apartment in the
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: French Quarter, like, these are things that you do to
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: live like and I understand that there's the purpose sense
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: of this question. I understand completely what you mean. How
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: much are you allowed to be selfish in like you know,
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: under the umbrella of selfishness and just do your own
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: thing and like take care of yourself and how much
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: do you need to give back? I would honestly say,
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: with everything that you've been through, it is really the
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: most important thing is to take care of you and
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: your happiness and the time that you are here to
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: enjoy yourself as much as you possibly can. You've been
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: through hell and you've handled it with a plum. I'm
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: sure there have been very dark days, and I'm sure
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: there have been lighter days, but a heavy it's a
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: heavy burden to bear, and I think what you're doing
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: is perfect. The fact that you're contemplating means that you're
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: thinking of others during such a time where you know
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: your health is at risk. And I just want to say,
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: whatever you feel moved to share to do, outreach to
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: help and share your experience to others, then do that.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: But you don't have to adhere to a certain set
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: of guidelines that are just that are arbitrary. You know
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: what I mean, You don't have to you don't.
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: Have to help other people.
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: You actually really have to help yourself because by helping yourself,
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: the need to help others is almost kind of like
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: it's just a natural progression of things that are going
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: to happen. You know, people see you carrying yourself in
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: a certain way. Even at when you're getting your chemo,
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: people see you know, people can go in there and
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: be down and out, and you going in there and
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: having a positive attitude and being hopeful or being optimistic
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: or being kind is already showing and demonstrating something to others.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: And as far as you sharing, I really would just
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: say you are the number one priority, and whatever excess
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: or extra time you feel like you have, then you
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: could go and do those things. But by no means
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: this is not your job to educate people in cancer.
• 57:07
  Speaker 4: Tim what do you think, Well, I'm reflecting upon something
• 57:11
  Speaker 4: Sarah that you wrote about writing. I think you really
• 57:15
  Speaker 4: should keep a diary chronicle your journey, even if it's
• 57:21
  Speaker 4: one hundred words a day. I think it would be
• 57:23
  Speaker 4: purging and cathartic for you, and it's something tangible that
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: you can also share if you choose to do so.
• 57:32
  Speaker 4: But I think the most wonderful thing about writing, and
• 57:35
  Speaker 4: I'm a writer, so I do this myself. One of
• 57:38
  Speaker 4: the most wonderful things about writing is you wrap your
• 57:42
  Speaker 4: brain around how to articulate the feelings that you have
• 57:46
  Speaker 4: and it can just be extremely helpful and can give
• 57:50
  Speaker 4: you a lot of insight to things. But I am
• 57:53
  Speaker 4: completely blown away by your courage and your tenacity and
• 57:59
  Speaker 4: your will to live. It's it's extremely inspiring.
• 58:03
  Speaker 7: Thank you, Thank you all for all of that. I
• 58:05
  Speaker 7: really appreciate it. It's helpful to hear that like encouragement
• 58:11
  Speaker 7: of just like what do I like? What am I feeling?
• 58:14
  Speaker 7: And do that and like one thing at a time.
• 58:17
  Speaker 7: And I think, to Tim's note, Chelsea, no, you've mentioned
• 58:20
  Speaker 7: this a lot. Like when I do write, I do
• 58:23
  Speaker 7: a gratitude list and I try to make it a
• 58:26
  Speaker 7: like a long list, so then I have to get
• 58:29
  Speaker 7: into like little like little things that you wouldn't think about.
• 58:32
  Speaker 7: And I kind of have a mantra of just like
• 58:35
  Speaker 7: you know I'm living today, I'm living today, Well what
• 58:39
  Speaker 7: you know, I'm living for, and then I kind of
• 58:41
  Speaker 7: fill in the blank, which kind of helps, just like
• 58:44
  Speaker 7: every day be like, like you said, appreciative of like, oh,
• 58:48
  Speaker 7: you know I have this day and what's beautiful about
• 58:51
  Speaker 7: the day.
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: Well, here's a question for you too.
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: There are a lot of people obviously listening to this,
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: so you're already helping them by like a reminder to
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: get your call and ask av like go in for check.
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: Because you've learned so much. Is there anything that you'd
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: say to our listeners about what else they should know,
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: what else they should be screening for.
• 59:07
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I would say, you know, like I said, I
• 59:10
  Speaker 7: am somebody that's like, okay, follows the rules. So I
• 59:13
  Speaker 7: was like, I'm forty five, I need to get my colonoscope,
• 59:16
  Speaker 7: so you know, talk to your doctors about that. And
• 59:18
  Speaker 7: I would also say, you know, as I thought, oh,
• 59:22
  Speaker 7: I don't have any symptoms, I'm going to be fine.
• 59:25
  Speaker 7: And then when it happened, I could kind of look
• 59:27
  Speaker 7: back and see like, Okay, there were changes happening, and
• 59:31
  Speaker 7: I was kind of saying, Oh, it's just stress or
• 59:33
  Speaker 7: it's just this or just that. So it'd say, you know,
• 59:37
  Speaker 7: if you feel something changing or different, like ask your
• 59:41
  Speaker 7: doctor and just talk to them and like ask questions
• 59:44
  Speaker 7: because you know, if we would have you know, you
• 59:48
  Speaker 7: could say what if, But if like I would have
• 59:50
  Speaker 7: gone in maybe a year earlier, it might have been
• 59:53
  Speaker 7: a different situation. So just listening, I think, listening to
• 59:57
  Speaker 7: our bodies and when we something feels different or not right,
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 7: asking those questions.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Sarah, Yeah, Sarah, thank you so much.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: And like again back to the purpose. I think a
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: lot about my purpose is like I think a lot
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: about just spreading light. You know, like I've been going
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: through a really rough time recently, and every morning I'm like,
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: and this is immaterial stuff, you know, stupid stuff, but
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: just a fucking emotional toll. It's taken on me, and
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: I am just like every morning, I'm like, Okay, try again.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: Today, try again to be light.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: To be other people's light, Like get out of your
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: own problems and be other people's light, like demonstrate light.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: And that's not to say that's not what I'm saying
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: to you. That's what I say to myself. But you
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: can do the same thing with you with your situation,
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: to demonstrate grace, love, gratitude to all of the people
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: that you come into like contact with and make that
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: a daily practice, and that's there's purpose in that that's immeasurable.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 6: Yeah, thank you.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we wish you well, sending you lots of love.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: Thank you for appreciate it.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 7: Thank you.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, bye, Sarah Banks. Okay, we're going to take a break.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: Tim and I are getting married and we'll be right.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: Back and we're back with gun What if I changed
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: my name to Chelsea Gun? I love it, Chelsea Guns.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 4: I could be Tim Handler.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: Tim Handler.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that sounds more melifluous. Actually that's got a nice
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: ring to it.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 4: Tim.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: Okay, Tim, this isn't all.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 4: Actually listen to this, Chelsea. What we could be gun
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 4: Handler Chelsea.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: And Tim gun Handler and that you have to use
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: both of our names when addressing either one of us.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 7: I like that.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, to get your your concealed carry person.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, Tim Gun, this was absolutely delightful. I loved having
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: you on. Please come back anytime you want, and thank
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: you for sharing everything that you shared today.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: Oh well, thank you for thank having me on the show.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 4: And I love being here with you and Catherine and
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 4: I would love to return.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: Okay, Well, we'll definitely have you back.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 4: Can't wait.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 5: Word of the Week Bilingual edition. Our first word of
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 5: the week is du charse verb Spanish to shower. Du
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 5: charsee is Chelsea's Spanglish for you'd better shower your swamp ass.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 5: If you're wearing ath leisure, du charsee. Our second word
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 5: of the week is bon chance, Franglish for good luck.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: Bon chance is a perfect.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 5: Way to wish someone luck if you're a refined gentleman
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 5: like Tim Gunn.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: Bon chance.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, guys, I am officially on my high and mighty tour.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: February nineteenth, Madison, Wisconsin. February twentieth is Milwaukee, Wisconsin. February
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: twenty first, Detroit, Michigan. February twenty second, Rama, Ontario. That's
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: Canada for those of you who don't speak Canadia. March thirteenth, Cleveland, Ohio.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: March fourteenth, Columbus, Ohio. March fifteenth, Cincinnati, Ohio. And then
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: March twentieth is Denver, Colorado. March twenty seventh, Portland, Maine.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: March twenty eighth, Providence, Rhode Island. March twenty ninth, Springfield, Massachusetts.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: April tenth is Chicago. I'll be at the Chicago Theater.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: April eleventh Indianapolis, Indiana. April twelfth Louisville, Kentucky. April sixteenth
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: is Albuquerque, New Mexico. April seventeenth is Mesa, Arizona. April
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: twenty third is Kansas City, Missouri. April twenty fourth is
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: Saint Louis, Missouri. April twenty fifth is Minneapolis, Minnesota. April
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: thirtieth Nashville, Tennessee. May first is Charlotte, North Carolina. May
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: second is Durham, North Carolina. May sixth, I'm doing Netflix
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: as a joke festival. I will be in Los Angeles.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: That is a new announcement, along with Atlantic City May fifteenth, Saratoga, California,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: May sixteenth, Monterey, californ worn May seventeenth, Modesto, California, and
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: then June.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: Fourth Portchester, New York.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: June fifth is Boston, mass And June twelfth is Portland, Oregon.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: And then Seattle is June thirteenth. So suck on that, everybody.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: Go to Chelseahandler dot com for tickets.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 5: If you want advice from Chelsea, write into Dear Chelsea
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 5: podcast at gmail dot com. Dear Chelsea is a production
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 5: of iHeartMedia.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: Follow Chelsea on all socials at Chelsea Handler and find
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 3: Katherine on TikTok at flash Cadabra.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 5: Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brandon Dickert executive
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 5: producer Catherine Law.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: Find full video episodes and minisodes now on Netflix, and
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: get tickets to see Chelsea live at Chelseahandler dot com