Latest / PCMA Convene Podcast / Convene Series: Seth Godin on Making Events Magical: Leadership, AI, and the Future of Work
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- Convene Podcast Transcript Seth Godin on Making Events Magical: Leadership, AI, and the Future of Work *Note: the transcript is AI generated, excuse typos and inaccuracies Magdalina Atanassova: Welcome to Season Nine of the Convene Podcast, brought to you by Visit Spokane. Throughout this season, our guests help us look ahead to 2026 — decoding what’s next for the business events industry and sharing insights to help you plan smarter, design with intention, and lead with confidence. To kick things off, I'm joined by Seth Godin, bestselling author, entrepreneur, and teacher. Seth has spent decades helping professionals rethink how we connect, create, and lead. And today he brings that lens to the events industry. From using AI as a tool for possibility to designing life experiences that truly change people, Seth challenges us to move past doing our jobs and start doing the work that matters. We start now. Hi Seth. Officially, it's a great honor to welcome you to the Convene Podcast. Seth Godin: Well, it's going to be a great day. Thank you for having me. Magdalina Atanassova: Your book, the Song of Significance, which came out a couple of years ago, envisions what work and leadership can be. If you had to write the book today, what would be different? If anything. Seth Godin: I think we are telling ourselves a lot of negative stories about a future that isn't here yet, about a present that we can improve. And I'm not sure I would change the book at all. I would just remind people that the world, your audience, the people you serve can feel infinite and it can feel disheartened. But there's a huge appetite for connection and belief and possibility. And if you're not going to deliver it, who will? Magdalina Atanassova: And for professionals, managing teams with five generations in the workplace right now, what's the first step in transitioning from management to generous leadership that creates belonging? Seth Godin: Okay, so generations are interesting, but distracting. I think it pays to begin with our words. What does it mean for someone to be a manager? Management is different than leadership. Management is using power and authority to get people to do what they did yesterday, but faster and cheaper. Leadership is voluntary. So if I'm running an event, I can't manage the attendees because they can just leave. I can't tell people they have to do what I say or they're fired because they don't work for me. Events are leadership. Getting enrollment in learning is leadership. Dealing with change is leadership. So either you're going to earn people's attention and trust or you're going to fail. But you can't just write a memo, can't just call a meeting and expect everyone's going to obey. Magdalina Atanassova: So how would this play in designing life events, you think? Seth Godin: Well, I've been to more live events than most people, and I would say that most of them are terrible. Given how much energy and money are spent, they should be extraordinary. If you're going to have people come from all over the world or all over the state or all over the city and interrupt their day and show up in a place together, you got to give them something better than they can find on YouTube, you got to give them more interaction than they can get out of email. And we have settled for events that please the caterer, that please the venue, that maybe even please the accountant. But they're not changing people's lives as much as they should. And if you're going to bother running a live event, you better be changing people's lives. Magdalina Atanassova: I believe everyone in our audience would probably raise their hand that that's exactly what they're trying to do, or at least I would hope so. Seth Godin: Well, let me interrupt here and say, of course, everyone on this call is someone of goodwill, but I think all of the people would say, under the circumstances, I want to do the best conference I can under the circumstances, but my boss won't let me. But I don't have the budget. But the board gets involved. And I just want to remind you that you are the circumstances, that if anyone, anywhere, is running an event that's changing lives, then you can, too. And part of our job is to create the conditions so that the people we're working with will say, yes, I. Magdalina Atanassova: Want to switch a little bit. So many professionals are still figuring out how to integrate AI into their work without losing the human element. How do you recommend the approach? AI adoption in a way that enhances rather than replaces human creativity and connection. Seth Godin: So there are two ways you can use AI. You can use it to make your tasks more efficient, and that's what most people are doing. And the problem with that is it's not generative. And the other way you can do it is to say, now that my tasks don't need to be done by me. How can I make myself so uncomfortable that I will do things that involve making decisions and leading? Because I can't hide behind all the tasks I have to do. And people are avoiding that for good reason, because it's scary. But that is the possibility that AI brings us. It's always here, it's always on. It's practically free. But if all you're going to do is use it to lower your costs, then you're racing to the bottom. Magdalina Atanassova: And speaking of racing to the bottom, with budget constraints and economic uncertainty right now affecting many industries, how can professionals maintain a focus on creating significance for their teams when resources are up? Seth Godin: Well, I think resources are tight because you're spending money on doing things the old way. You know, I did a nationwide tour. 500 people to each venue in vintage theaters around the country, including a catered lunch. And I was the only person who was on the payroll? I had a couple volunteers in each city helping me, and that was it. So it's not expensive to do this. It doesn't require a big team to do this. It just requires being willing to fail. Magdalina Atanassova: That's an interesting way of putting it. Do you think it also requires belief into something bigger? Seth Godin: Exactly. That's why it's worth failing. There's this old hackneyed expression, what would you do if you were sure it was going to work? And I think it's more interesting to ask, what would you do if you were sure it was going to fail? What would be worth doing anyway? Go do that. Magdalina Atanassova: What's your framework for building trust? When people are naturally skeptical about change, whether it's new technology, leadership decisions, or organizational shifts. And how can we create a culture where people are inspired exactly what we're speaking about, or given permission to generate change, to initiate and take risks? Seth Godin: Well, there's a lot in this question to unpack. We're going to start with this. There's a difference between something that feels risky and something that is risky and highlighting those differences. I mean, the riskiest thing you can do in this era of change is to stay still. For sure, that's going to fail. But then the second half is we need to treat different people differently. Some people want change to happen. Some people are ready to go first. Some people are thrilled to do work that matters. Other people emotionally don't want to do those things. We can't change their mind. So we need to invite the right people on the journey and leave the other people to do what they're doing. They will catch up later. Magdalina Atanassova: You want to impact some more. Seth Godin: When the Internet showed up, some people said, well, I'm just going to go back to work. And some people started Amazon and Uber and GeoCities. When AI showed up, some people said, I'm going to use these tools to learn how to program in a different way. And other people said, I'm going to pretend it doesn't exist. That's fine. People make different choices. You probably did not buy an iPhone the first day it was on sale. Some people, just a few, still have a 12 flashing on their VCR. That's fine. Different people embrace technology at different moments. And the mistake we make is insisting that everyone needs to do it at the same time, and they don't. Magdalina Atanassova: I'm really, you know, hitting my head against the wall with this idea of being given permission, especially in work environments, especially right now. It seems that that's especially in corporate setting. It's hard to be given permission. And you spoke about circumstances. So do you think you can give yourself permission to do better work and is it worth it? At the end of the day, do. Seth Godin: You want authority, do you want permission or do you want responsibility? Because in my experience, organizations will give out responsibility like candy. Anyone who wants responsibility can have it. But you're unlikely to get authority. You're unlikely to get deniability. So if you actually want to lead, you can't wait for permission. You simply lead. You point out your failures and you do it again. And I talk to a lot of bosses and that's what they want their employees to do. But we pretend we're not allowed to because we're afraid. Magdalina Atanassova: It's a nice way to put it. And in your latest book, this is Strategy, you emphasize that strategy is about making choices for the long term. And now as we look toward 20, 26 and beyond, what fundamental choice do you think professionals across industries need to make about the role of work in employees lives and the role of people in that near future? Seth Godin: I guess the key choice is what is the change you're seeking to make? Are you trying to defend yesterday or are you trying to invent tomorrow? Who are you trying to change? What is the work we seek to do? Many traditional organizations have trouble answering those questions. VISIT SPOKANE AD: Searching for your next event destination? Have you considered Spokane? The Convention Center sits right on the banks of the Spokane River — surrounded by everything your attendees could need, from shops and restaurants to wide-open green spaces. Whether you’re exploring new cities or gearing up for show time, the Visit Spokane team will make it all flow. Start planning at VisitSpokane.com. Magdalina Atanassova: How would you address that if you were put in a position in such an organization? Seth Godin: Well, it depends on which organization. Right. So if I'm going to run the American Bookseller association trade show and I've got 30,000 people from the book industry coming together once a year, what is the change I seek to make? Well, the convention was built before the Internet, so it's very obvious what you were trying to do 50 years ago. But why do you even exist today? What's it for? Who's it for? What is the change we seek to make? Magdalina Atanassova: And you know that event is actually coming back next year just in your neck of the woods in New York? Seth Godin: Well, I, I, I've been maybe 20 times. I don't go anymore because there's no point. Magdalina Atanassova: Yeah, it was canceled for a while and then we just got the news it's coming back. So it would be interesting to see why you distinguish a lot between strategy and tactics. So when professionals are under pressure to show immediate results, how do they stay committed to long term strategic thinking? Seth Godin: Well, why are you under pressure to show immediate results? It's probably because your strategy isn't generative. If your strategy was working, then the pressure would be easier to Deal with that. We end up day trading and hustling because in the long run, the thing we're doing isn't thriving. I mean, if you work for the movie business now, you're under a lot of pressure to sell a lot of movie tickets before the end of the year. Well, of course you are, because they know the industry is dying and we need to take a deep breath and say, it doesn't do me any good to have a good quarter if the next five years are going to be a disaster. Magdalina Atanassova: It's the race to the bottom, right? Seth Godin: Exactly. Magdalina Atanassova: Can you think of an example in, in events in our industry that's similar to that? Are we doing something that it's done and we keep on doing it? Seth Godin: Well, I'd rather focus on the positive ones. You know, if you think about the welcome conference which happens in New York next week, Will Guidera built that from a few dozen people to filling Lincoln Center. If you think about the 10 year run that TED had, it grew. And it grew because the videos helped people pay attention to ted. But being in the room with the other people still felt like magic. That what we have is the chance to realize that live in person events are magic and if they're not, we shouldn't have them. Magdalina Atanassova: You often talk about enrollment rather than persuasion. So for professionals trying to get their teams excited about change or new initiatives, what does effective enrollment look like in practice? Seth Godin: Enrollment is the simple idea that if people want to go somewhere, you can help them get there. But if they don't want to go there, it's very hard to get them there. So if you look at a Tony Robbins live event, why does it work? It works because the people who came came to go where Tony is going to take them. And that doesn't work. If you show up at a high school auditorium with a string quartet because the high school students didn't sign up to hear a string quartet and they don't want to go where the quartet was wants to take them. So much of the hard work is about finding the right people and getting them to come for the right reason. Magdalina Atanassova: I really would like to mix up all these things we've talked about so far. So we touched on AI and work and enrollment and building trust and constraints. Sometimes it feels hard to put them in practice if in your work. And again, you can say, yes, you can lead from any chair. But still, when you face all these walls people put in front of you, how do you, how do you sustain that? How did you sustain that throughout all these years. Seth Godin: Of Course it's hard, Magdalena. That's why it's worth doing. It's hard. That makes it scarce. And I'm not proposing that you rewire the whole organization. I'm proposing that you begin by organizing lunch. Lunch on Thursday for eight people. You have the authority, the responsibility and the budget to host a lunch on Thursday. Can you do one that is more than a lunch? Can you create a room of energy that people want to come back to? That's hard. But there's no one standing in your way from doing that. Magdalina Atanassova: That's true. You just wrapped up this great course on AI and I know you're a big fan of AI. So how do you feel the future of work will change now with AI? And yes, you know, as you said, people sometimes they chose to adopt it, some chose to ignore it, but it will change us nonetheless. So how do you foresee that change? What do you see for us coming 20, 26 and onwards? Seth Godin: Well, I think it's important to clarify. I'm not a fan of AI the way I'm a fan of Patricia Barber or Kristen McBride. I think AI is here and it's a fascinating, useful tool if we understand it. And you don't have to like it to understand it. So work is going to change the same way. Factory work changed. Factory work changed with electricity. It changed with the electric light. It changed with mass production. So if you made leather handbags in 1870, you don't get to do that anymore. Not the same way. And the workers, many of them ended up with jobs that weren't as satisfying. But the market doesn't care. The market wants productivity. And so we need to realize the same thing is true for the high paid indoor work that many of us get to do. Most of what you do all day is tasks, and most of those tasks are going to go away. Magdalina Atanassova: So your recommendation is just adapt to survive? Seth Godin: No, my recommendation is be thrilled at the notion you don't have to do tasks anymore and start signing up to make decisions, to be responsible, to create magic. Because AI is going to have a lot of trouble doing those jobs. Magdalina Atanassova: What's one question people are not asking about AI right now and being better professionals. Seth Godin: So AI does one thing right now, which is an interaction between you and it. What happens when AI starts to facilitate interactions between you and other people? How is that going to change the very notion of a meeting? Magdalina Atanassova: What do you think? Seth Godin: Well, I mean, just let me pick a trivial example. Someone's giving a talk, a keynote from 10 to 11 at a meeting of 100 people. And while they're talking, everyone who's listening can text in and ask their questions. Well, an AI can easily sort those people into groups of four based on their similar questions and then light up their name on chairs around the room. So when the talk is over, everyone stands up, sits down in a chair with their name on it. And there are three other people who are interested in exactly what they're interested in. Magic. You can't repeat, you can't reproduce that anywhere else. You couldn't do it without AI magic. I can think of a thousand of those. How many people in your organization are thinking of those? Magdalina Atanassova: Yeah. And how many are thinking of just meeting the next budget deadline or other kind of deadline? Seth Godin: I'm very lucky that I'm hired to do events and usually keynotes. I don't fly for work anymore, but I still do them. And regularly, if I push to do something out of the box, something that changes the rules, people say, well, no, because my boss won't let me. And that's just a trap because your boss isn't in the room and your boss is running things based on the world of 25 years ago. So we keep coming back to the idea of why should I give up a week of my life to attend your event? And if you're not doing something that scares you, the answer is I shouldn't. Magdalina Atanassova: Very well put. Especially as we have many events coming forward now as a busy season, four events in our field. And I'm thinking, what other mindset shift would you recommend for professionals at this point in time that the year ends? Seth Godin: Well, the other thing that I would say in particular to people who think about event space is there's the live part, but then there's 360 other days of the year. What are you building that can live in that space? So let's go back to the book industry, the ABA Booksellers Association. Their show was the center of everything. When the Internet came along, they could have easily built what my friend Michael Cater built, which was Publishers Lunch, which was a daily email newsletter. Still is. That connects every single person in the industry over things they care about. Well, pretty quickly Publishers Lunch became more important and more valuable than the annual trade show. The question is, why didn't the people who had the trade show started? Because you only needed one person. It's because we're not accurately defining what it is we even do. Magdalina Atanassova: It's what many of my colleagues call busy work. Right. Seth Godin: It's doing your job. It's not doing the work. It's doing your job. And I think it's time for us to take a deep breath and do the work. Magdalina Atanassova: In one word, what do you think is the future of face to face events? Seth Godin: I think the future has never been brighter than it is now because now people are only going to go because they want to, not because they have to. And everything that's great meets that definition. Magdalina Atanassova: I love it. I thought you'd just say magical. Well, that was lovely. Thank you so much. Do you have anything to add? Maybe something we didn't address and we definitely should before we wrap up? Seth Godin: Well, the fact that someone's listening to this shows that they're enrolled trying to make things better. Don't stop. Don't stop. Ask hard questions and do things that might not work. Magdalina Atanassova: And final, before we wrap up, what's next for you? What should we expect coming out next? Seth Godin: Well, my three AI decks just finished on Kickstarter and they will be out in November. You can see the details@promptdeks.com and my blog continues 10,000 posts in a row at Seth's blog. Magdalina Atanassova: I'll definitely make sure to link to both in the show notes so people can get quick links. Thank you, Seth, so very much for making the time. It was amazing. Seth Godin: What a pleasure. Thanks, Magdalina. Magdalina Atanassova: Remember to subscribe to the Convene Podcast on your favorite listening platform to stay updated with our latest episodes. We want to thank our sponsor, Visit Spokane. Go to VisitSpokane.com to learn more. For further industry insights from the Convene team, head over to PCMA.org/convene. My name is Maggie. Stay inspired. Keep inspiring. And until next time.